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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori

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Speaker 1: with you, Ken gerhard back with us. Ken, as widely

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Speaker 1: recognized cryptozoologist, author, lecturer who frequents appears on television, has

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Speaker 1: traveled the world searching for evidence of mysterious creatures, including Bigfoot,

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Speaker 1: the Lockneest Monster, the Trooper, cobra, Mothman. In addition, Ken

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Speaker 1: has written a number of books on the subject of

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Speaker 1: unknown animals, and his research has been featured on numerous

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Speaker 1: TV shows as well. Several of his books include The

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Speaker 1: Essential Guide to Bigfoot, Encounters with Flying Humanoids, Mothman, man Birds, Gargoyles,

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Speaker 1: and other winged creatures and beasts as well. His website

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Speaker 1: linked up at Coast to Coast am dot com. Ken

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Speaker 1: what a bizarre story about that fisherman? Huh, good evening, George.

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Speaker 1: Always an honor to speak with you, my friend. Good

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Speaker 1: to have yet, Yeah, that is a weird story. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just cut winted that in the last couple of

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Speaker 1: days myself. Now, you came across a strange one to

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Speaker 1: about a big foot skull being dug up or something

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Speaker 1: what happened. Yeah, this is a pretty pretty big news

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Speaker 1: in the bigfoot world. Just a few days ago, actually,

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Speaker 1: last week, a wildlife researcher and YouTube YouTuber named Coyote

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Speaker 1: Peterson posted a video of what appeared to be a large,

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Speaker 1: prominent skull, a grade ape skull, that he was digging

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Speaker 1: up out of the mud in British Columbia, Canada, which

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Speaker 1: of course has a long history and tradition of the

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Speaker 1: so called Sasquatch. So this created a lot of buzz.

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Speaker 1: You know, looking at the video, George, you know, most

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Speaker 1: big foot researchers were just a basic understanding of physical

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Speaker 1: anthropology will recognize that it is clearly a guerrilla type skull.

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Speaker 1: It displayed a lot of prognathism, that is, the jaw

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Speaker 1: was kind of pushed forward, and in thousands of Bigfoot

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Speaker 1: in Sasquatch accounts almost across the board, we always hear

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Speaker 1: descriptions of a relatively flat profiler face. So this thing

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Speaker 1: didn't really look like a Bigfoot or Sasquatch at first.

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Speaker 1: But it turns out that it seems as though that

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Speaker 1: this particular skull is either a guerrilla skull replica that

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Speaker 1: was planted there, perhaps by this gentleman or someone else,

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Speaker 1: and you know, less likely that it is actually a

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Speaker 1: guerrilla skull that just randomly ended up in the mud

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Speaker 1: up de Bridgie, Columbia, Canada, but unfortunately not a Bigfoot

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Speaker 1: or sasquatch skull, although maybe this is a precursor to

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Speaker 1: a future event and then how we will discover decinative

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Speaker 1: of evidence that Bigfoot exists. Why hasn't science can done

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Speaker 1: a more thorough job investigating and searching for Bigfoot? I

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Speaker 1: mean it's left it up to the good cryptozoologists like

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Speaker 1: you to go hunting. But why haven't they done something

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Speaker 1: concerted as a major effort. Well, there have been a

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Speaker 1: handful of scientists through the years that have gotten involved,

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Speaker 1: of course physical antip just like doctor Grob Pranz, doctor

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Speaker 1: Jeff Meldrum, John Vinder Nagel and so forth. But you're right,

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Speaker 1: the majority of the scientific establishment, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: for a number of reasons, I think Bigfoot is a

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Speaker 1: very handsoff subject. It's very controversial. There doesn't seem to

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Speaker 1: be you know, unless you really delved into the evidence,

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Speaker 1: there doesn't seem to be a lot of evidence. Superficially, Now,

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Speaker 1: cryptos all just like myself realize how much evidence there

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Speaker 1: is in terms of physical trace evidence, footprints, thousands of sightings,

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Speaker 1: native legends, and so forth. But I think many scientists

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Speaker 1: are probably afraid of their reputations being tarnished, losing stature

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Speaker 1: at their institutions, missing out on grants, and so forth.

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Speaker 1: So it's very unfortunate, but hopefully we'll reach a point

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Speaker 1: where more scientists will become involved. There is a camp

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Speaker 1: in the Bigfoot area that believes creature is dimensional, not physical,

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Speaker 1: but dimensional. What do you think of that that's true?

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Speaker 1: I run across those accounts, well, I actually claims, I

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Speaker 1: would say Bigfoot experiencers, people that claim that there are

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Speaker 1: sort of supernatural elements to Bigfoot, that it's able to

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Speaker 1: use what they call mind speak helepathically communicating that it

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Speaker 1: can cloak its body and vanish, you know, into thin air.

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Speaker 1: So I've never experienced any of that stuff. And I've

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Speaker 1: been investigating bigfoot for decades all over the continent. I

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Speaker 1: know a number of leading Bigfoot investigators, starting in the fifties,

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Speaker 1: the giants of the field, like John Green Renee to

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Speaker 1: hint In Peter Burn. None of those guys ever experienced

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Speaker 1: anything supernatural but those accounts do come in, you know,

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Speaker 1: they do come into play. Now, I would say that

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Speaker 1: the evidence would point to the fact that it's it's

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Speaker 1: a minority of reports, a very small percentage that actually

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Speaker 1: describe these supernatural attributes. The northwestern region ken the United

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Speaker 1: States seems to be loaded with these reports too. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Traditionally we first heard of the sasquatch in British Columbia, Canada.

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Speaker 1: But starting in the nineteen twenties there was a guy

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Speaker 1: named JW. Burns. It was documenting native traditions of these

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Speaker 1: hairy giants. And then of course we heard about Bigfoot

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Speaker 1: coming out of northern California in the nineteen fifties when

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Speaker 1: footprints were being found. Traditionally, A Washington and Oregon have

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Speaker 1: a lot of accounts. So yes, the Pacific Northwest seems

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Speaker 1: to be the sort of the nexus of Bigfoot or

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Speaker 1: sasquatch activity, although you do have a lot of reports

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Speaker 1: in some Eastern states like Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Kentucky, Texas

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Speaker 1: and so forth. Do you get reports of thunderbirds, these

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Speaker 1: huge pterodactyl type birds. Yes, In fact, that's one of

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Speaker 1: my primary focuses within the field of crypto zoology or

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Speaker 1: accounts of wind cryptids. I get two basic types, George,

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Speaker 1: I do get the pterodactyl type accounts, people describing something

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Speaker 1: prehistoric with leathery wings and reptilian features, wingspans ranging from

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Speaker 1: six to twenty feet across. I also get reports of

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Speaker 1: feathered giant feathered birds monster birds with wingspans fifteen to

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Speaker 1: twenty feet acraft basically like about the size of small airplanes.

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Speaker 1: So we do get both types of accounts. Both are

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Speaker 1: labeled thunderbirds, although the pterodactyl types, of course would not

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Speaker 1: be birds at all, but flying reptiles if those exist.

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Speaker 1: But yes, there are a number of those accounts. Just

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Speaker 1: last year, I actually mounted an expedition to north central

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Speaker 1: Pennsylvania to search for the monster bird type of thunderbird.

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Speaker 1: That region in the black forest up there seems to

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Speaker 1: have a long history of account of these monster birds,

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Speaker 1: dating back to the nineteen twenties and even the nineteenth century.

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Speaker 1: And they're bigger than the condors, aren't they. Yes. The

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Speaker 1: North American con or, the California condor Guy Guyp's californianists

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Speaker 1: has a wingspan of about nine and a half feet

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Speaker 1: across at the biggest. That's still that's still a big bird.

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Speaker 1: That's a big bird. But the average wingspan reported for

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Speaker 1: a thunderbird, a modern thunderbird, and this is base out

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Speaker 1: of my have a database of sightings and a lot

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Speaker 1: of data on this is about fourteen feet across. Now

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Speaker 1: that's an estimate because people, of course are unfortunately very

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Speaker 1: poor at estimating the size of things. Yeah, they're flying

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Speaker 1: up in the air. So wasn't there a report that

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Speaker 1: somebody was flying their sess staff and a thunderbird came

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Speaker 1: right by it and was just as big. Yes, pretty much.

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Speaker 1: There was a bush pilot named John Booker up in

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Speaker 1: Alaska and in October of two thousand and two he

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Speaker 1: was flying his Sesta plane with a passenger and claims

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Speaker 1: that he saw one of these thunderbirds flying alongside of him. Now,

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Speaker 1: he estimated its wingspan is about fourteen feet across, which

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Speaker 1: was about half the width of his plane, or about

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Speaker 1: the length of one wing, which is still pretty darn big,

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Speaker 1: I mean, much larger than a condor. Of course, what

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Speaker 1: happened at the Amarillo Zoo. Something was happening out there. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It's actually been a kind of an interesting year for

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Speaker 1: crypted events Georgia, so at the end of May May

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Speaker 1: twenty first, to be exact of this year, at about

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Speaker 1: one thirty in the morning, there was apparently an image

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Speaker 1: or video captured by security cameras at the Amarillo Zoo,

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Speaker 1: and in the image, which quickly went viral online, there

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Speaker 1: appears to be a humanoid or a bipedal type of being,

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Speaker 1: sort of wolflike features, pointing ears and a snout. Seems

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Speaker 1: to be furry and somewhat humanoid looking slightly amorphous quality

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Speaker 1: to it, but you know, we're guessing. All over people

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Speaker 1: were coming at me left and right asking me what

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Speaker 1: I thought of this thing. Now. Of course, many people

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Speaker 1: try to connect this thing to the so called dog Man,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of like a half man half dog

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Speaker 1: type creature that people have been reporting all over North America. Upright, yeah,

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Speaker 1: walks upright mostly. There are accounts of them sometimes going

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Speaker 1: down on all fourts, but they do have humanoid features.

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Speaker 1: But this particular figure in the video, there are a

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Speaker 1: couple of issues. One is that it has kind of

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Speaker 1: a strange posture. That is, it's torso and upper body

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Speaker 1: seems to be pointed leaning backward against it's what appeared

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Speaker 1: to be its leg, so it's not standing exactly upright

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Speaker 1: or leaning forward, which is what we would expect to see.

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Speaker 1: And like many cryptid videos and images, it's a little

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Speaker 1: bit ambiguous. So even if he enhanced the image, it's

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Speaker 1: hard to tell exactly what we're looking at. Some people

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Speaker 1: think that it might be kind of a hoaxer, somebody

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Speaker 1: in a costume playing a prank. What I noticed when

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Speaker 1: I blew up the image is that it is the

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Speaker 1: image lacks biological symmetry. That is, it doesn't appear to

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Speaker 1: be an animal or a person. It has kind of

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Speaker 1: almost a phantom like quality to it. So then you

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Speaker 1: can speculate that maybe it's something more supernatural if you

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Speaker 1: believe in that type of thing, or maybe it's just

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Speaker 1: an optical illusion of someone. Kenny, we don't hear too

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Speaker 1: much about the Lockness Monster anymore, how come well, I

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Speaker 1: think the people that are tied into the Lochness Monster,

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Speaker 1: and there's certainly there are researchers on Lochnest that have

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Speaker 1: you know, like St. Seltam and others that have been

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Speaker 1: studying the phenomenon for years, and they do collect about

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Speaker 1: ten good reports still each year. But George is the

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Speaker 1: most notable thing with regard to the Lockness monster phenomenon

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Speaker 1: is that in recent years there have been some remarkable

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Speaker 1: sonar contacts of very large unidentified objects around under the loch.

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Speaker 1: And for example, as recently as April of this year,

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Speaker 1: there was a tourist named Tom Ingram who was on

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Speaker 1: a whose tour boat going across Loch Ness and when

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Speaker 1: he glanced over at the sonar screen he saw this

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Speaker 1: huge solid mass swimming about four hundred feet below the

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Speaker 1: boat and very similar to a sonar contact that was

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Speaker 1: made in October of twenty twenty by a guy named

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Speaker 1: Ronald McKenzie who was operating a tour boat. And these

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Speaker 1: masses are about thirty to forty feet long, they appear

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Speaker 1: to be moving around in animate, and really the sonar

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Speaker 1: evidence is the most overlooked aspect of the Lochnest phenomenon.

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Speaker 1: We know that there have been a number of hoaxed photos,

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Speaker 1: there are a number of eyewitness accounts numbering in the thousands,

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Speaker 1: but dating back to the nineteen fifty four there have

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Speaker 1: been consistent unidentified sonar contacts with huge thirty to forty

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Speaker 1: foot objects swimming around under the loch, and really no

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Speaker 1: one has been able to adequately explain what those are

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Speaker 1: pretty dramatic. It's it's it's it's amazing, and whatever the

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Speaker 1: creature is since it's been going on, has had to

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Speaker 1: have died and they must be reproducing. It can't live

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Speaker 1: that long. Yeah, No, that's a great point. If we

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Speaker 1: assume that it's an unknown species, then there would have

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Speaker 1: to be a viable breeding population in the lock. Now

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Speaker 1: what that would consist of, you know, would be pure speculation, George,

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Speaker 1: but it's been estimated that you would have to have

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Speaker 1: at least maybe a dozen individuals to avoid any type

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Speaker 1: of genetic bottlenecks, you know, where a species could go extinct.

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Speaker 1: So it sounds hard to believe. But when you figure

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Speaker 1: how much water is in lock nests, I think it's

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Speaker 1: like two hundred and sixty three billion cubic feet of water.

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Speaker 1: I mean the lock is like eight hundred feet deep.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's Yeah, there could conceivably be a group

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Speaker 1: or a family of these creatures down there. Tell us

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Speaker 1: about the Minnesota Iceman. The Minnesota Iceman is one of

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Speaker 1: those weird subplots in the field of big foot. Now,

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Speaker 1: way back in nineteen sixty nine, two cryptozoologists announced that

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Speaker 1: they had examined the dead body of some ape like

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Speaker 1: humanoid creature that was frozen in a block of ice

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Speaker 1: and strangely had been shown around at different carnivals and

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Speaker 1: sideshows in the Midwest and elsewhere, and this created quite

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Speaker 1: a stir in the media. Of course, the Smithsonian Institute

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Speaker 1: became involved for a short time, the FBI almost became involved,

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Speaker 1: and then the owner of this particular exhibit, a guy

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Speaker 1: named Frank Hanson, apparently got nervous and disappeared for a while,

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Speaker 1: and when he resurfaced, the claim that he had hidden

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Speaker 1: this creature and now he had this model or replica

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Speaker 1: that he was going to tour round with instead and

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Speaker 1: basically represented it. So a lot of conspiracy folks in

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Speaker 1: the big Foot think that there was a big foot body,

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Speaker 1: a dead big foot that this guy had in this

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Speaker 1: block of ice, and that basically he you know, disappeared

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Speaker 1: with it when he felt like he might get into

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Speaker 1: some kind of legal jeopardy. So that's kind of the story.

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Speaker 1: And in recent years the Latex Minnesota ice Man, we

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Speaker 1: know for sure it's Latex, we think some of us

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Speaker 1: have examined it, has turned up at the museum of

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Speaker 1: the Weird and Austin and on display to this day.

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Speaker 1: But there's still many people who think that there was

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Speaker 1: an actual flesh and blood version that this model was

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Speaker 1: based on. Because these two cryptos who all just studied

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Speaker 1: this thing and now granted it was frozen and ice,

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Speaker 1: they think they weren't granted the courtesy of having it

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Speaker 1: thought out. But they examined this thing for like two

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Speaker 1: or three days, and they were convinced that it was real.

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Speaker 1: Could they see it pretty well even though it was

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Speaker 1: an ice, Well, the ice was somewhat opaque in places,

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Speaker 1: and they were challenged as far as it was being

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Speaker 1: kept in kind of a small tractor trailer. So they

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Speaker 1: did their very best job to They did photographs as

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Speaker 1: best they could, sketches. The main thing is that they

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Speaker 1: could They claimed they could smell its rotting, decaying flesh

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Speaker 1: coming up through cracks in the ice and the enclosure,

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Speaker 1: and they could see gashes bubbles of decomposition. So that's

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Speaker 1: what really convinced them that it was real, is that

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Speaker 1: whatever they were looking at seemed to be decomposing flesh.

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Speaker 1: Wasn't there a case a couple of years ago ken

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Speaker 1: where some people claimed they had a carcass of Bigfoot,

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Speaker 1: but it was really a costume that they stuffed with

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Speaker 1: deer guts. Yeah, do you remember that. Yep. That was

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Speaker 1: like in two thousand and eight or nine, I believe,

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Speaker 1: and some guys in Georgia they and this was actually

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Speaker 1: based on the Minnesota ice Man in kind of a

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Speaker 1: funny kind of way. It was a hope. They almost

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Speaker 1: got away with it. They almost did. They made a

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Speaker 1: big media announcement and allegedly they sold this thing to

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Speaker 1: a guy for ten thousand dollars and yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: a pretty big deal at the time, but it was

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Speaker 1: exposed as a hope. I booted a guy off the show.

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Speaker 1: I won't mention his name who was charging for people

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Speaker 1: to look at Bigfoot that he claimed he had captured.

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Speaker 1: And he said, you know, for a couple bucks, folks,

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Speaker 1: you get to turn on the TV and go see it.

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Speaker 1: And I wonder who that might be. You know who

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Speaker 1: it was? Yeah, I probably do. But I mean, are

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Speaker 1: there a lot of hoaxters out there? Oh? Yeah? Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Hoaxing has been a big part of the big Foot

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Speaker 1: field and also cryptozoology in general. I mentioned many photos

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Speaker 1: of the Lockness Monster were hoped the famous surgeon's photo

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Speaker 1: that everyone knows of the Lockness monster. The head and

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Speaker 1: neck photo is most likely a hope. There have been

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Speaker 1: a lot of big footprints and films and things as well, so, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's hard to figure out exactly why that happens. George,

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking that a lot of it might be sort

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Speaker 1: of based in economics. It seems like Bigfoot is you know,

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Speaker 1: big money, and so Lockness and of some of these

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Speaker 1: other triptis as well. Uh, you know, and of course

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Speaker 1: some people just like at tension or like stirring the pod.

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Speaker 1: I guess so that in Star Wars, Chewbacca, I think

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Speaker 1: he was modeled after a big Foot, wasn't he. Um.

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Speaker 1: That is a rumor that's been circulating for years that

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Speaker 1: George Lucas may have modeled Chewbacca on a big Foot.

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Speaker 1: Now here's a funny story about that. They filmed the

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Speaker 1: third film, Return of the Jedi. Part of it was

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Speaker 1: filmed in northern California, and when Chewbacca was on set

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Speaker 1: and walking around, they actually put an orange vest on

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Speaker 1: the actor. I can't remember his name of Mayhew. I

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Speaker 1: think Tina Mayhew. So somebody wouldn't shoot him, so somebody

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Speaker 1: would not shoot him thinking he was a big foot

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Speaker 1: walking around, so there's definitely a Chebacca big Foot connection

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Speaker 1: in that respect. Listen to more Coast to Coast AM

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Speaker 1: every weeknight one a m. Eastern, and go to Coast

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Speaker 1: to Coast am dot com for more