Speaker 1: Do you think folks are sticking with their New Year's
Speaker 1: resolutions or have they dropped them already?
Speaker 2: No, at this point, absolutely not. I think most people
Speaker 2: were committed January first through fourth, and then we saw
Speaker 2: great drop off.
Speaker 3: Then.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all the commercials that have been trying to rope
Speaker 1: you into all these different things, whether it be gym
Speaker 1: memberships or managing your money properly or whatever. It seems
Speaker 1: like those commercials have stopped because maybe y'all have fell
Speaker 1: off those habits.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I just know for me and my house,
Speaker 2: good habits are hard to come by. Okay, Yeah, new
Speaker 2: habits are hard to come by.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 1: It always feels like it takes a significant amount of
Speaker 1: activation energy to start.
Speaker 3: A new habit.
Speaker 2: Yes, not just to start it, but especially for it
Speaker 2: to solidify and to stick around. It feels like it
Speaker 2: takes almost all your energy. Sometimes I have to sit
Speaker 2: down the other things I was already doing so I
Speaker 2: can focus on the new thing I want to do.
Speaker 1: I think the only habit that I've been able to
Speaker 1: maintain is ordering off door dash.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 2: Were you trying to pick that habit up?
Speaker 3: No, it just happened over the pandemic.
Speaker 2: Just I'm t T and I'm Zachiah and from Spotify.
Speaker 2: This is Dope Labs.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore science,
Speaker 1: pop culture, and a healthy dosa friendship.
Speaker 2: For our last installment of our new year series, we're
Speaker 2: talking all about habits and when we look back, we
Speaker 2: learned quite a few things over the past few weeks. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like with.
Speaker 1: Sleep and how important it is. I've learned that I might.
Speaker 3: Sleep a little bit too much, which I didn't think was.
Speaker 1: Possible before talking to doctor Jean Louis. We also learned
Speaker 1: about vitamins and how I probably need to be just
Speaker 1: eating better.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 1: I learned a lot about our immune system and how
Speaker 1: it works and how it kicks itself in the gear
Speaker 1: to keep us healthy.
Speaker 2: There are some things that I might need to pick up,
Speaker 2: but there's some stuff I'm like, it just is what
Speaker 2: it is.
Speaker 1: I hope you're picking up going to bed, because it
Speaker 1: sounds like you really need to get some sleep.
Speaker 3: Friends.
Speaker 1: But I guess, no matter where you fall on this
Speaker 1: spectrum of oh, I want to pick up these new
Speaker 1: habits or change the way I'm doing things, how you
Speaker 1: create new habits or ditch the bad ones is really
Speaker 1: really important.
Speaker 2: Yes, the good news is we're going to talk all
Speaker 2: about it today.
Speaker 3: Perfect timing.
Speaker 2: Let's get into the recitation. So what do we know? Well,
Speaker 2: habits are like the Konami code or shortcuts of self improvement.
Speaker 2: There are like those hot keys on your computer that
Speaker 2: let you move everything off the desktop to help you
Speaker 2: get directly to the action.
Speaker 3: Yeah, command, shift, see or whatever.
Speaker 1: I know that forming new habits good habits can be
Speaker 1: really really hard.
Speaker 2: But you know what's easy though? What forming bad habits?
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, I've got plenty of those.
Speaker 2: Plenty, I got plenty effortless okay.
Speaker 3: It takes no energy at all. So what do we
Speaker 3: want to know?
Speaker 2: I want to know why it's so hard to form
Speaker 2: the good habits, right, what is the barrier there?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I want to know what's going on in our brains
Speaker 1: when we are in the process of trying to form
Speaker 1: a new habit. Is there something neurologically that makes it
Speaker 1: easy for some habits and harder for other habits to stickah?
Speaker 2: Is there a social component, you know, like the buddy
Speaker 2: system They say, like, oh, if you're doing something, have
Speaker 2: a friend do it with you. What is the heck?
Speaker 2: Is there a hack to habit?
Speaker 3: Give us the life hack?
Speaker 2: Yes, TikTok has not shown me that.
Speaker 1: I've searched every corner of TikTok, I've not found it.
Speaker 2: And even when I say TikTok, I mean TikTok on Instagram,
Speaker 2: you mean.
Speaker 3: TikTok on reels. All right, let's jump into the dissection.
Speaker 2: Our guest for today's lab is the author of Good Habits,
Speaker 2: Bad Habits, Doctor Wendy Wood.
Speaker 4: My name is Wendy Wood, and I'm a behavioral scientist.
Speaker 4: I study habits and mostly why they're so difficult to change.
Speaker 4: I'm on the faculty at the University of Southern California.
Speaker 2: Before we even get to defining a habit tity, I
Speaker 2: already know what they're going to try to tell us.
Speaker 1: They're going to try and say, it's twenty one days
Speaker 1: to make a habit.
Speaker 3: I think we've all heard it.
Speaker 2: We've heard it, We've seen it everywhere. But guess what
Speaker 2: they're wrong.
Speaker 1: Doctor Wood's already told us that you guys are taking
Speaker 1: this weight out of context.
Speaker 4: It was a popular book in the nineteen sixties that
Speaker 4: was written by a surgeon explaining how long it takes
Speaker 4: people to get used to a new face or a
Speaker 4: new image after plastic surgery, So it didn't have anything
Speaker 4: to do with habits.
Speaker 1: Okay, so we know we all have habits, but what
Speaker 1: exactly makes a habit repetition?
Speaker 4: Every time you repeat a behavior, your mind is processing
Speaker 4: it in part of your brain which stores habit memories.
Speaker 4: It connects where you are and what behavior you're repeating
Speaker 4: that gets some reward that makes you feel good, and
Speaker 4: that enjoyment is really important for repeating a behavior, and
Speaker 4: it could be just feeling pride. It's just a good
Speaker 4: feeling that you have when you do the behavior.
Speaker 2: So when we repeat behaviors that feel good, we're forming
Speaker 2: these mental associations so that in the right context, that
Speaker 2: habit is automatically activated.
Speaker 4: So it's like standing in front of your bathroom sink
Speaker 4: in the morning. The habit that's activated for most of
Speaker 4: us is brushing our teeth, and we do it without
Speaker 4: thinking a whole lot. Am I gonna do it today?
Speaker 4: Do I want to? How do I do it? You
Speaker 4: don't have to ask those questions because you have a habit.
Speaker 4: You just repeat what you've done before.
Speaker 1: Habits allow us to go on autopilot for certain tasks
Speaker 1: like brushing your teeth or making coffee.
Speaker 2: What's your morning habit that you're just on autopilot for.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's probably a bad habit that I need to break,
Speaker 1: which is first things.
Speaker 3: First, I'm checking my phone.
Speaker 1: I don't even realize it, and I'll realize, Oh, I've
Speaker 1: been scrolling on my phone for five minutes since I
Speaker 1: woke up. I need to stand up and get my
Speaker 1: day started. But then right after that, it's got to
Speaker 1: the bathroom, brush my teeth.
Speaker 3: What about you.
Speaker 2: I reach around for my phone and as I'm standing up,
Speaker 2: I'm unlocking it. I'm usually seeing if my Apple Watch
Speaker 2: is dead or dead or alive, dead or alive. And
Speaker 2: then I'm calling my dad as I'm walking to make
Speaker 2: coffee in the kitchen.
Speaker 1: I want to incorporate your dad into my morning routine.
Speaker 2: Who you think you want that dose of energy in
Speaker 2: the morning.
Speaker 1: Hey, I won't need a cup of coffee.
Speaker 2: So making coffee is easy for me. I like doing it.
Speaker 2: It makes me feel good. But the problem is when
Speaker 2: it comes to those behaviors that are harder to do,
Speaker 2: like t t You remember that time I tried to
Speaker 2: be shy and quiet. No matter how hard I tried,
Speaker 2: or I tried to commit to it, I just kept
Speaker 2: falling off.
Speaker 1: Uh huh, she couldn't do it. Why was that lasted
Speaker 1: for two minutes?
Speaker 2: I could do it for two minutes.
Speaker 4: So we experience will power, it's exerting self control. It's
Speaker 4: a bit of a struggle. It takes effort, and the
Speaker 4: challenge with willpower is this. Let's say you decide I'm
Speaker 4: not gonna snack anymore in the afternoon, I'm gonna just
Speaker 4: quit that. As soon as you start saying that, you
Speaker 4: start thinking, Okay, what am I missing? What am I
Speaker 4: denying myself? What can't I have? Now, there's great research
Speaker 4: showing that that has ironic effects, which then get us
Speaker 4: to think more and more about the thing that we
Speaker 4: can't have, and then all of a sudden, we can't
Speaker 4: really keep ourselves from doing the thing that we tried
Speaker 4: not to do. That's the ironic effects of desire. If
Speaker 4: you try to control it, it just kind of takes over.
Speaker 1: Yes, there was a time when I decided that I
Speaker 1: wasn't going to drink soda anymore. In particular, the soda
Speaker 1: that has the tightest grip on me is Coca cola.
Speaker 1: And that's because I don't want my teeth fall out
Speaker 1: of my mouth. I can't afford veneers. I don't want
Speaker 1: to have to go to Columbia to get them. So
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, let me get back on the
Speaker 1: Coca cola. And then all of a sudden, I felt
Speaker 1: like I saw Coca cola ads everywhere. I felt like
Speaker 1: everyone around me was drinking Coca cola. It felt like
Speaker 1: I was depriving myself of this thing. It was just everywhere.
Speaker 1: I felt like I could smell it, and it became
Speaker 1: like the hardest thing ever. So I ended up caving
Speaker 1: because I was just like, this is taking over my mind.
Speaker 3: I could barely think. Every day.
Speaker 1: All I did was focus on not drinking co cola,
Speaker 1: which maybe want to drink coca cola even more so
Speaker 1: I just said, okay, well maybe I'll drink it with
Speaker 1: a straw to try and avoid my teeth.
Speaker 4: It doesn't work that way, but it's okay.
Speaker 2: Are you putting the straw directly into your side.
Speaker 4: It's really hard to use willpower effectively to control habits.
Speaker 4: Willpower just doesn't last as long as your habit's going to.
Speaker 2: So doctor would explain that while we all know what
Speaker 2: it feels like to try to use willpower, we're actually
Speaker 2: less familiar with our habits.
Speaker 4: Habits proceed in a way that isn't accessible to conscious awareness.
Speaker 4: We can't just sort of look at the habit and
Speaker 4: decide what it is. We don't have access to that.
Speaker 1: According to doctor Wood, the habit system works kind of
Speaker 1: independently from our conscious awareness of our behaviors.
Speaker 3: It works through experience.
Speaker 4: So you can tell yourself, I want a new habit.
Speaker 4: I'm going to make a decision, But that doesn't do
Speaker 4: anything to habit memory. That's your conscious self. Habit memory
Speaker 4: is somewhat separate from that and has a different logic
Speaker 4: to it. Habit memory is so simple that all mammals
Speaker 4: have learned through habit. It's how your dog learns, it's
Speaker 4: how whales learn, it's how cows learn. So you have
Speaker 4: to keep in mind how basic it must be for
Speaker 4: all of those animals to be able to learn in
Speaker 4: a similar way.
Speaker 2: So we're basically all Pavlov's dogs.
Speaker 1: Maybe this is why I've yet to be able to
Speaker 1: teach my dog Daisy a trick, because I'd be like
Speaker 1: sit if she won't do it, and I'm like, all right, girl,
Speaker 1: just eat the treat.
Speaker 2: It's fine. Well, even if you can't teach Daisy a trick,
Speaker 2: are you able to at least teach yourself a drink?
Speaker 2: What happened with the coke? Yes, So I.
Speaker 1: Ended up replacing Coca Cola with sparkling water. But I
Speaker 1: had to go through kind of like a trial and
Speaker 1: error process where I was testing out different brands, different flavors,
Speaker 1: until I finally arrived at a brand and flavor.
Speaker 3: That could scratch my Coca Cola itch.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, this is just as good
Speaker 1: as having a coke. And I haven't had coke in months, well,
Speaker 1: at this point the year, a year, I probably had
Speaker 1: a coke. I know I've had a coke, but when
Speaker 1: I'm not having it doesn't feel like I haven't had one,
Speaker 1: Like I can't even remember when the last time I
Speaker 1: had one was.
Speaker 2: I remember when you could remember?
Speaker 3: You remember when I was feeding?
Speaker 2: Yes, your having those coke. She was there.
Speaker 3: She was there with me, shooting in the gym.
Speaker 4: That's exactly what you should do when you can. Another
Speaker 4: behavior that is a direct substitute can be a way
Speaker 4: of maybe not changing the habit but adapting it to
Speaker 4: meet the goals that you have right now. So you're
Speaker 4: kind of building on that habit memory that you have,
Speaker 4: and instead of reaching for coke, you just get a
Speaker 4: can of flavored water.
Speaker 2: So you wanted to get rid of coke altogether, and
Speaker 2: what you really did is kind of adapt or replace
Speaker 2: with something else. So that makes me think about how
Speaker 2: our brain really can form quote unquote good and bad habits,
Speaker 2: Like is one easier? Is there a difference?
Speaker 4: There isn't much. They really do function very much the same.
Speaker 4: What's different is whether they meet your goals right now.
Speaker 4: I bet when TD started drinking coke, it woke you up,
Speaker 4: it gives you a little bit of a sugar lift,
Speaker 4: it tastes good. So all of those things are rewards.
Speaker 4: But once you start doing it all the time, it's
Speaker 4: really not good for you. So it was a good
Speaker 4: habit maybe when you started. That doesn't mean it's a
Speaker 4: good habit several months later or a year later. And
Speaker 4: so that's the difference between good and bad habits. And
Speaker 4: that's how bad habits form. We do something, we end
Speaker 4: up doing it a lot, then we realize, oh, g no,
Speaker 4: that's not really a great thing. For me.
Speaker 1: You know, one of the things that me and my
Speaker 1: friends Kia love is skincare. And so I was trying
Speaker 1: to have a new skincare routine, and I said, every
Speaker 1: single morning and night, I'm gonna use this acid on
Speaker 1: my face. And I made it into a habit where
Speaker 1: in the morning, I would wash my face, I would
Speaker 1: put this acid on, and then I'll put on sunscreen
Speaker 1: because that's what she's supposed to do.
Speaker 3: Then at night, I would do the same thing.
Speaker 1: I would wash my face, I would put on this
Speaker 1: bahaaj one of these ahs, and then put on a moisturizer.
Speaker 1: After doing that for maybe like a week and a half,
Speaker 1: my skin was so sensitive. I feel like I removed
Speaker 1: a protective layer on my skin where I was just
Speaker 1: like wow, everything that I put onto my face was burning.
Speaker 1: Things that aren't supposed to burn were burning. And so
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, this is a little bit too much.
Speaker 1: Then I need to back off the acid.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think you really have to find the right
Speaker 2: cadence for stuff. Similarly, and I know you've seen it.
Speaker 2: As much as making coffee is a routine for me
Speaker 2: in the morning, I really enjoy it. I like the
Speaker 2: way it tastes. I also like the process of preparing
Speaker 2: the beverage. And sometimes when I'm really stressing, I need
Speaker 2: to get another cup of coffee. And it's not even
Speaker 2: that I need the caffeine, because baby, once I have
Speaker 2: a couple of cups, I'm typed to like a bad
Speaker 2: man and I'm talking thirty words per second. So what
Speaker 2: I found, though, is to combat that I have just
Speaker 2: in my hopper, in my little bean grinder, I'm putting
Speaker 2: mostly decaf, and then I just add in the other beans,
Speaker 2: and I still have the habit of going and making
Speaker 2: the coffee in the morning. I can have multiple cups.
Speaker 2: But I also am not terrorizing you and Ginny and Lydia,
Speaker 2: our producers on the back end. Right in our meetings,
Speaker 2: we all can't understand each other. I don't send so
Speaker 2: many links. It's working out, and I think it's important
Speaker 2: to not really think of anyone habit as objectively good
Speaker 2: or bad.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: I think the question is does it work for me
Speaker 2: right now, right now, for who I want to be?
Speaker 2: Does the frequency you know? It still may be working
Speaker 2: for you, but maybe you don't need twice and times
Speaker 2: a day, Yes, maybe every other day.
Speaker 3: TT maybe that's okay to meet the goals that I have.
Speaker 1: Yes, those are the adjustments that I need to make.
Speaker 2: You see those things that float online, they're like every
Speaker 2: day you should this, this, and this, and they're like
Speaker 2: habit trackers. But maybe sometimes the habit is once out
Speaker 2: of every seven okay.
Speaker 1: Especially when a new year comes around, or for some
Speaker 1: people it's their birthday, where you just feel like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is where I'm going to get my fresh start,
Speaker 1: and this is what I'm gonna do. Sometimes you got
Speaker 1: to think about the long game. If this is a
Speaker 1: lifestyle change for you, Like, okay, I want to be
Speaker 1: a more avid reader.
Speaker 3: If you burn.
Speaker 1: Yourself out in the first month because you read sixty
Speaker 1: books and you can't even remember what most of the
Speaker 1: books were about, and then.
Speaker 3: You kill your joy of reading, then it's not gonna
Speaker 3: last very long.
Speaker 1: But if you say, okay, I'm just gonna try and
Speaker 1: do one book a month, and then maybe next year
Speaker 1: I'll do two books a monk, or maybe after six
Speaker 1: months of doing one book a month, I can up
Speaker 1: it to two or three whatever feels good. But to
Speaker 1: get you to your goal of being a more avid reader.
Speaker 2: So let's take a break. When we come back, we're
Speaker 2: gonna talk all about how to actually form habits that stick.
Speaker 1: We're back and we're talking all about habits, the good,
Speaker 1: the bad, and the ugly with doctor Wendy Wood. Before
Speaker 1: we dive back into the dissection, Zakia, what are we
Speaker 1: talking about next week?
Speaker 2: Okay, so the Winter Olympics start this weekend in Beijing,
Speaker 2: and just because there won't be fans, that doesn't mean
Speaker 2: we aren't excited for figure skating, ski jumping, and Bob's ledding.
Speaker 2: So next week we're talking with doctor Sophia Nimphius and
Speaker 2: she's gonna tell us how athletes are harnessing the power
Speaker 2: of physics to perform all of our favorite winter sports.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's get back into the dissection. So we want
Speaker 1: to know what are the steps to form a habit?
Speaker 1: How do we do it? Doctor Woods says there are
Speaker 1: three main parts repetition, rewards, and context.
Speaker 2: Let's start with repetition. We said it earlier, so it's
Speaker 2: not too surprising. Habits are repeated behaviors and we don't
Speaker 2: really think too much about them, so it makes sense
Speaker 2: that repetition is the first step in the process of
Speaker 2: forming a habit.
Speaker 3: The second part is rewards.
Speaker 4: Rewards are really important for habit formation because we're just
Speaker 4: not going to repeat behaviors that aren't rewarding in some way.
Speaker 4: And I think that's a problem that people have when
Speaker 4: they try to change habits, is they think, let me
Speaker 4: do the thing that's best for me, regardless of whether
Speaker 4: they like it or not, regardless of whether it's easy
Speaker 4: or not. Let me choose the thing that would make
Speaker 4: me a or person without trying to work with themselves
Speaker 4: and figure out what they enjoy.
Speaker 2: That makes sense to me that we're more likely to
Speaker 2: repeat behaviors that feel rewarding. And beyond the psychological there's
Speaker 2: also a biological reason why rewards are key for forming habits.
Speaker 4: When you do something that feels good or that works
Speaker 4: for you in some way, your brain releases dopamine. And
Speaker 4: dopamine is that feel good chemical that we all know,
Speaker 4: but it does lots of things. And one of the
Speaker 4: things it does is it ties together all of the
Speaker 4: information and memory to form those habit connections, those streamlined
Speaker 4: decision making parts of the habit memory and dopamine works
Speaker 4: for about a second, so you can't promise yourself a
Speaker 4: reward at the end of the week. If you do something,
Speaker 4: it has to be as you're performing the behavior that
Speaker 4: you feel good in some way.
Speaker 1: So long term rewards of a habit, like exercising or
Speaker 1: practicing a new instrument may not be enough to get
Speaker 1: us to commit to starting that habit. How can we
Speaker 1: make a habit more fun in the moment if the
Speaker 1: activity itself isn't intrinsically rewarding.
Speaker 4: So I got myself an elliptical because I thought that
Speaker 4: would be most similar to running. But I couldn't use
Speaker 4: it because it's so boring. You have to stay in
Speaker 4: the same place and just do it the same thing
Speaker 4: over and over again. I thought it was awful until
Speaker 4: I figured out I can read trashy novels while I
Speaker 4: work out. I can watch stupid stuff on TV, but
Speaker 4: I never normally watch And once I figured that out,
Speaker 4: I love the elliptical.
Speaker 2: You know, previously, when I thought about trying to create
Speaker 2: some habits, I was reading James Clear's book Atomic Habits,
Speaker 2: and a lot of what he said is very similar
Speaker 2: to what Doctor Wood explains in her book, which is
Speaker 2: the kind of daisy chain something good or something that's
Speaker 2: already rewarding with something that you probably don't want to do,
Speaker 2: so you tie these things together. And they both nailed
Speaker 2: this point, so you know, is gotta be legit.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: Earlier we talked about something being good for you. Right now,
Speaker 2: I don't believe in totally depriving yourself of something. So
Speaker 2: one of the things that I like this in my
Speaker 2: area is a cheese danish from this bakery that's nearby.
Speaker 2: And you know, when I like something, the next thing
Speaker 2: for me is like, how can I make cheese danishes
Speaker 2: for scratch? And I'm like, oh no, that's not rewarding, okay.
Speaker 2: But one of the things that I've learned in this
Speaker 2: series that could be really useful for me is just
Speaker 2: getting outside and walking for like fifteen minutes. And a
Speaker 2: lot of that is remember from Good Anxiety with Doctor
Speaker 2: Wendy Suzuki, she was talking about how just moving around
Speaker 2: and being out in the sun, how it can change
Speaker 2: those things. We also learned that with doctor Jean Luis
Speaker 2: for getting good sleep at night. And so if I
Speaker 2: want to have a cheese Danish, I don't have to
Speaker 2: penalize myself with making dough from scratch, but I can
Speaker 2: walk to the bakery and get one and so I
Speaker 2: get my activity, which is for later me. For sleeping
Speaker 2: right that doesn't work. That's not a reward when I'm
Speaker 2: walking right then, I don't get a good night's sleep
Speaker 2: right away, but I do get an immediate reward of
Speaker 2: going to like my favorite little bakery. And so I'm
Speaker 2: putting those things close together, and I'm basically helping later
Speaker 2: me so that i can go to sweep. I love that.
Speaker 1: I think that's such a good idea, and that's something
Speaker 1: that I'm definitely gonna start trying with some of the
Speaker 1: habits that I'm trying to form that I'm like, Nah,
Speaker 1: this ain't gonna.
Speaker 3: This, ain't this ain't gonna work.
Speaker 2: I kind of work.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I've done in the past
Speaker 1: is that I bought a planner, and it's one of
Speaker 1: these planners that has space on each day where you
Speaker 1: can write in notes, you can plan your day out
Speaker 1: hour by hour, and so the reward is kind of
Speaker 1: hidden in that it helps me stay organized, and so
Speaker 1: I go into each day feeling like I know exactly
Speaker 1: what I have coming up, I know how my day
Speaker 1: is gonna be parsed out, and so that is a
Speaker 1: continual reward that you get from adding to this planner.
Speaker 2: I know we talked about this in an earlier lab
Speaker 2: about you being a plan Patty, and maybe in the
Speaker 2: last minute, Larry, but I will say that I have
Speaker 2: picked up some of those habits from Tete, and so
Speaker 2: now I map a lot of things onto my calendar
Speaker 2: and I don't feel stressed out when people want to
Speaker 2: plan stuff ahead of time. I can say, I know
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have time for it, Like I can block
Speaker 2: off time that's just creative time for me, Like I
Speaker 2: think that's one of the things that makes me a
Speaker 2: last MANU, Larry. I'm like, I don't know how I'm
Speaker 2: gonna feel. But if I block creative time for myself
Speaker 2: and I know I've blocked enough time for myself during
Speaker 2: the week, then I'm okay saying yes, I can do
Speaker 2: this thing.
Speaker 3: Yes. The reward is the freedom.
Speaker 2: Yet and for me sometimes the predictability, uh huh to
Speaker 2: know what's coming up. You know something else that's a
Speaker 2: not so obvious reward for me. Why data? I like,
Speaker 2: the more information the better. When I started saying I
Speaker 2: was a real cyclist, you remember that, And I was
Speaker 2: really only riding for like ten minutes you are a cyclist.
Speaker 2: The not so obvious reward that I always enjoyed was
Speaker 2: being able to see how far I went on those rides.
Speaker 2: I just love that and sharing it, and I would say, look,
Speaker 2: here's my ride today. Tt every time you always said
Speaker 2: good job. Maybe that was the reward.
Speaker 1: Maybe that is all of these smart watches that folks
Speaker 1: have where you can link up with your friends and
Speaker 1: your friend can send you words of encouragement, that could
Speaker 1: be the reward.
Speaker 3: I think that's nice.
Speaker 4: Even things that are difficult for some people can be
Speaker 4: rewarding if you can figure out something that works for
Speaker 4: you to make the behavior fun, that's what's important.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 1: So we've talked about repetition, and we've talked about rewards.
Speaker 1: The third part of habit forming is context.
Speaker 4: Context is everything around you. So for brushing teeth, context
Speaker 4: is your bathroom sink and your toothbrush. For making coffee
Speaker 4: in the morning, it is your kitchen early in the
Speaker 4: morning and your coffee maker. Other people can be context too,
Speaker 4: and the reason why contexts are so important is because
Speaker 4: some make it easy to repeat a behavior and others
Speaker 4: make it more difficult. One of the things that makes
Speaker 4: things difficult is if they take a while wile time right.
Speaker 4: Amazon knows that if it has us do a one
Speaker 4: click purchase, we're there two clicks and they lose customers
Speaker 4: because it's just slightly more difficult with two clicks. Doesn't
Speaker 4: sound like it's meaningful, but it is. Our behavior is
Speaker 4: very responsive to how difficult or easy things are, and
Speaker 4: we're just much more likely to repeat things that are
Speaker 4: easy for us.
Speaker 2: That's really interesting because a lot of what I see
Speaker 2: on social media or just within our friend group, and
Speaker 2: maybe I'm just talking about myself, it is people using
Speaker 2: shame to try to help them stick to their habits.
Speaker 2: For example, you might need an accountability partner, so you
Speaker 2: might want someone who's going to say did you do
Speaker 2: X today or did you do why to shame you
Speaker 2: into doing those things that you said you wanted to do.
Speaker 1: M It's hard sometimes because some of these habits, like
Speaker 1: exercising and better sleep aren't necessarily fun to do. We
Speaker 1: already talked about adding rewards while you're doing the habit,
Speaker 1: but is there something else we can do for these
Speaker 1: habits that are somewhat uncomfortable but will benefit us in
Speaker 1: the long run.
Speaker 4: That is the challenge most of us live in environments
Speaker 4: where the behaviors that are more fun, like intrinsically fun
Speaker 4: to us, are not the ones that are best for
Speaker 4: health and well being. We're all captured by cell phones
Speaker 4: and social media. It's so easy to fall into these patterns.
Speaker 4: So part of changing your habits is knowing how to
Speaker 4: control your environment in a way that will make it easier.
Speaker 2: One of the things I've been wanting to do and
Speaker 2: I found that I enjoyed. You know, I'm working from
Speaker 2: home a lot, and I don't know about you, but
Speaker 2: I have been all into my leggings and sweatshirts and hoodies.
Speaker 2: I have a Hampton sweatshirt that I have worn NonStop.
Speaker 2: I want to start getting dressed more at home, and
Speaker 2: something that makes it a lot easier is to put
Speaker 2: my outfit out the night before, so it's not something
Speaker 2: I have to look for. It just takes a little
Speaker 2: bit of that friction out in the morning time when
Speaker 2: I'm getting ready, and it just makes it easier to
Speaker 2: stick to this habit that I want to become more
Speaker 2: second nature.
Speaker 1: So one habit that I had when I was in
Speaker 1: undergrad because you know them eight am classes come at
Speaker 1: you fast.
Speaker 3: And I struggle with just getting out of bed.
Speaker 1: So what I started doing was putting my alarm clock
Speaker 1: across the room so when the alarm would go off,
Speaker 1: I would have to stand up, I'd have to walk over,
Speaker 1: and my feet had to touch those cold tiles. I'm
Speaker 1: having to move my body, so my body's waking up
Speaker 1: to turn off my alarm clock and that wakes me up.
Speaker 1: So including that level of friction to get me up
Speaker 1: out of the bed definitely reinforced a better habit for me.
Speaker 2: So friction is a concept in physics, right T. T.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, friction is when you have an object that's moving
Speaker 1: in a specific direction and it's the forces that are
Speaker 1: operating against that object that caused the friction.
Speaker 2: So friction is controlling how EASi or hard it is
Speaker 2: to get something done. If there's something that you don't
Speaker 2: want to do, you add obstacles that's creating friction. If
Speaker 2: it's something you want to do, you remove the friction.
Speaker 2: So I'll take my own example, I want to get
Speaker 2: dressed every day. Some of the obstacles are figuring out
Speaker 2: what I'm gonna put on. If I remove that friction
Speaker 2: by laying out my outfit the night before, it's much
Speaker 2: easier when I wake up to decide to get dressed
Speaker 2: instead of default to leggings and a sweatshirt.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 1: And then with my example, I'm adding friction by putting
Speaker 1: my alarm clock across the room so that I have
Speaker 1: to get up to turn it off.
Speaker 2: So the idea is, if you're trying to move away
Speaker 2: from a habit add some friction, so it's not easy
Speaker 2: to do. If you're trying to move towards something, remove
Speaker 2: the obstacles, remove the friction so it's easier to do.
Speaker 2: Doctor would explain to us that our environment can also
Speaker 2: affect our level of self control and how adjusting that
Speaker 2: can help us with sticking to our habits. To help
Speaker 2: us understand, doctor Wood told us about an experiment to
Speaker 2: studies self control among children.
Speaker 4: So most people know know about Walter Michelle's marshmallow experiment
Speaker 4: where he took four year olds and he put a
Speaker 4: marshmallow in front of them and told them sit there
Speaker 4: for fifteen minutes. You can eat it if you want to,
Speaker 4: but if you wait those fifteen minutes, then you get
Speaker 4: two marshmallows. And of course four year olds can't do this,
Speaker 4: And what they did was it's so simple. They put
Speaker 4: a cake tin over the marshmallow and they said you
Speaker 4: can lift up the tin and eat it anytime you
Speaker 4: want to, but if you wait, you get two. And
Speaker 4: if the marshmallow was hidden, ninety percent of the kids
Speaker 4: could wait until they got two marshmallows, which is amazing.
Speaker 4: Self control comes from the environment that we're in. If
Speaker 4: we organize the environment in a way that pushes us
Speaker 4: in the right direction, we can all look like we
Speaker 4: have amazing self control.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this marshmallow experiment, I think that a version of
Speaker 1: it actually went viral on TikTok and Instagram all over
Speaker 1: social media where people were doing this with their children,
Speaker 1: where they would put their kids' favorite snack, these little
Speaker 1: candies or gummy bears or whatever, right in front of
Speaker 1: them and say, don't touch it.
Speaker 3: I will be right back.
Speaker 1: And the experiment who was to see how long your
Speaker 1: child would wait with the instruction that they weren't supposed
Speaker 1: to touch it until you got back, and that they
Speaker 1: could have it as soon as you got back.
Speaker 3: And a lot of these kids didn't make it.
Speaker 1: Some of the kids us some really unique tactics to
Speaker 1: be able to wait. So some of them would look away,
Speaker 1: some would close their eyes. And then it was Kylie
Speaker 1: Jenner's daughter Stormy that actually sang a song about being
Speaker 1: patient in order to help herself be patient as she
Speaker 1: was waiting for her mom to get back.
Speaker 3: It was very, very cute.
Speaker 4: All habits, they are difficult to change and it's difficult
Speaker 4: to form new ones. And I think that's why people
Speaker 4: keep forming the same New Year's resolution over and over
Speaker 4: is they just haven't figured out the tricks. Because if
Speaker 4: I said to you, the way to form a new
Speaker 4: habit is to find something that's fun and make it easy,
Speaker 4: you'd be like, oh, yawn, that's nothing new. But there's
Speaker 4: good research behind why that works. And not self control
Speaker 4: or not feeling guilty, and that accountability with friends. If
Speaker 4: I had somebody I was accountable to, I just get
Speaker 4: pissed at them.
Speaker 3: At the end.
Speaker 4: They kept telling me to do something I didn't want
Speaker 4: to do. There was a steady tracking people's cell phones
Speaker 4: on figuring out how far they traveled to a paid
Speaker 4: fitness center. They analyzed hundreds of thousands of cell phones,
Speaker 4: and what they found is that people who traveled five
Speaker 4: point one miles to a fitness center went on average
Speaker 4: once a month. People who traveled three point six miles
Speaker 4: to a paid fitness center to a gym went five
Speaker 4: times a month. So if you can integrate going to
Speaker 4: the gym with your job, going to work, with going
Speaker 4: to the store, if you can find a gym close
Speaker 4: to home, then you will have removed a lot of
Speaker 4: the friction. You'll have made it easier, and you'll be
Speaker 4: more likely to go. Just not the way we think
Speaker 4: about it. We think we go to the gym when
Speaker 4: we commit to it and force ourselves. But there are
Speaker 4: easier ways, and that is just make it close, make
Speaker 4: it convenient.
Speaker 2: So now that we know what it takes to make
Speaker 2: a habit repetition reward in context, even if you provide
Speaker 2: all those elements, are there some habits that are just
Speaker 2: easier than others.
Speaker 4: Some habits are just more complicated than others. So going
Speaker 4: to the gym is much more complicated than switching out
Speaker 4: coke for water. And because it's more complicated, it has
Speaker 4: numbers of steps, there's more effort involved. It'll just take longer.
Speaker 4: Things that are more complicated just take longer to learn.
Speaker 1: So it's not twenty one days like we already discovered,
Speaker 1: But how long does it take to form a habit.
Speaker 4: Well, you know that you've formed a habit when you're
Speaker 4: doing the thing automatically. It's like driving a car, right,
Speaker 4: So you get in the car, you drive somewhere, and
Speaker 4: you think, oh my god, how did I get here?
Speaker 4: I know I was paying attention to what happened on
Speaker 4: the road because I'm here, but I was thinking about
Speaker 4: something else. That's typical of habits. You can do them
Speaker 4: while you're thinking about other things. They just sort of
Speaker 4: run off automatically, and if you can practice, repeat the
Speaker 4: behavior often enough so that it becomes just sort of
Speaker 4: like making coffee in the morning. It's just something you do.
Speaker 4: Sometimes you think about it while you're doing it, but
Speaker 4: most of the time you don't have to, and that's
Speaker 4: when you know that it's a habit. It kind of
Speaker 4: recedes from consciousness. You're not making those decisions anymore.
Speaker 2: A thing that was really interesting to me is that
Speaker 2: form of habits is not really high level brainwork. When
Speaker 2: doctor Wood basically likened it to training a dog, I
Speaker 2: was like, wow, this makes me really sad about my
Speaker 2: previous attempt to form new habits. But it's really a
Speaker 2: simple equation, and after a while your brain will take
Speaker 2: over if you keep giving it that repetitive behavior and
Speaker 2: that additional context, and you reduce that friction and you
Speaker 2: just stick at it. You need a little stick tuitiveness,
Speaker 2: then you can form a habit that's really wild to me.
Speaker 2: Ding ding ding ding thing. It's time for one thing?
Speaker 3: What's your one thing?
Speaker 5: Zee?
Speaker 2: Well, my internet scouring has taken me into another corner
Speaker 2: of Twitter that I didn't really know about, but I
Speaker 2: am really enjoying it. There. I pulled up a chair
Speaker 2: and it's been exciting. I've been in geology and fossil Twitter, okay,
Speaker 2: and I get there.
Speaker 3: I don't know and we'll talk about it later.
Speaker 2: Anyway. Two fees that I'm really enjoying are doctor Phoebe Cohen,
Speaker 2: that's at Phoebe fossil and doctor Katie's strength and that's
Speaker 2: at Paleokatie. She spells that p A l A E
Speaker 2: O K A t I E. And they have been
Speaker 2: sharing all of this fossil knowledge that I just did
Speaker 2: not know about. I think somebody in fossil Twitter shared
Speaker 2: a link to an article about a crab that was
Speaker 2: found and it has eyes, but the eyes are not
Speaker 2: on stalks the eyes are big, and so they think
Speaker 2: this crab might have been a fully swimming kind of
Speaker 2: predator crab, not a crab that crawls along the ocean
Speaker 2: floor like we think about. I mean, it's just it's
Speaker 2: so much to learn, and the brain isn't fossilized. A
Speaker 2: lot of times the brain is fossilized, and so they
Speaker 2: can look at all this stuff. It is I'm telling you,
Speaker 2: you've got to get.
Speaker 3: Over there fascinating.
Speaker 1: My one Thing this week is an Instagram page that
Speaker 1: I haven't falling for a while now, and I'm surprised
Speaker 1: that I haven't brought it up in my one Thing yet,
Speaker 1: But it's Black Girls in Trader Joe's. And I love
Speaker 1: this Instagram page because they show all the new items
Speaker 1: at Trader Joe's. It's a really great community. It's so
Speaker 1: much fun. I love reading the comments of people saying
Speaker 1: different things that they've tried from Trader Joe's, some of
Speaker 1: their staples that you must try if you've never been
Speaker 1: to Trader Joe's. And they post really delicious looking food
Speaker 1: and the vibes are just right, and it always makes
Speaker 1: me really excited for my next trip to Trader Joe's.
Speaker 1: So that's black Girls in Trader Joe's on Instagram and
Speaker 1: I believe they have a Facebook community too. Our credits
Speaker 1: this week are being read by one of our og listeners, Alexandra.
Speaker 5: That's it for Lab forty nine. Called up labs at
Speaker 5: two zero two five six seven seven zero two eight
Speaker 5: and tell t T and Zachiah what you thought or
Speaker 5: give them an idea for a lab they should do
Speaker 5: this semester. TT and Zachia really love hearing from you.
Speaker 5: That's two zero two five six seven seven zero two eight,
Speaker 5: And don't forget there's so much more for you to
Speaker 5: dig into on the website. There will be a cheat
Speaker 5: sheet for today's lab, additional links and resources in the
Speaker 5: show notes, Plus you can sign up for the newsletter
Speaker 5: check it out at Dope labspodcast dot com. Special thanks
Speaker 5: to today's guest expert, doctor Wendywood. Find doctor Wood on
Speaker 5: Twitter and Instagram at Profwindywood, and you can find Dope
Speaker 5: Labs on Twitter and Instagram at Dope Labs Podcast. Tt
Speaker 5: Is on Twitter at Doctor Underscore T Show, and you
Speaker 5: can find Zakia at z Said So. Dope Labs is
Speaker 5: a Spotify original production from Mega Ome Media Group. Producers
Speaker 5: are Jenny Rattle at Mast and Lydia Smith of wave
Speaker 5: Runner Studios. Editing and sound design by Rob Smerziak, Mixing
Speaker 5: by HANNS.
Speaker 3: Brown.
Speaker 5: Original music composed and produced by Taka Yasuzala and Alex
Speaker 5: Sugiira from Spotify. Executive producer Gina Delvat and creative producer
Speaker 5: Candice Manriquez Wrin Special fas to Shirley Ramos, yasmin A Fifi, Keimu, Elolia,
Speaker 5: Teal Kracki and Brian Marquis. Executive producers from Mega Om
Speaker 5: Media Group are t t show Dia and Zakiah Wattley.
Speaker 2: Do you remember when I was doing that thing and
Speaker 2: I was saying I am a cyclist when I wanted
Speaker 2: to get on my bike more?
Speaker 3: Yes, I do remember this is what a.
Speaker 2: Cyclist would do. Changed my whole personality, not personality, but
Speaker 2: it worked.
Speaker 1: She was really out here. I remember when I called
Speaker 1: you on face time. My stabbed the screenshots of you
Speaker 1: with your bike, put an oil on the chain. What
Speaker 1: is going on over there? This is a real biker