WEBVTT - Melissa Wolfenbarger: Letters From Carl Patton | Part 4 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:13.440 Ms Coon, my fourth grade teacher, surprised us one day 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:17.000 by giving us the name and address of a child 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:20.640 in Denmark, and she told us that we were going 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:24.640 to have a penpal the whole school year, and we 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:27.680 were going to write letters to them every week. At 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:31.280 Christmas time, we were going to exchange gifts. We were 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:34.479 going to know their birthday and other special times for 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:37.280 them so that we could send them a gift or 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:43.200 some type of special recognition. This was a wonderful experience 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:47.239 to me because once I mailed off my letter, the 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:51.640 anticipation of getting one in return was always such a blast. 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:55.600 I could not wait. This was a slow process. It 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:58.520 was not making a phone call where you got immediate 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:02.360 answers to your questions. What's your favorite toy, do you 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:05.720 play a sport? Do you have brothers and sisters? We 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:09.839 had to wait weeks to find out those answers. I'm 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:13.800 having that same experience a little bit with my relationship 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:19.800 with Carl Patton. Carl Patton is Melissa Wolfenberger's father, and 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:23.040 as you know from the previous episode where we talked 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:28.200 to Norma and Tina, her mom and sister, Karl is 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:32.280 incarcerated for murders that he committed in nineteen seventy seven. 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:36.360 But Carl wants to be a part of seeking justice 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:40.200 for Melissa, Well, he has information that I need, and 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:43.280 the only way I can do that is through letters. 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:47.840 I want to talk about the significance of including Carl 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:53.000 in this investigation. If you want to know why people murder, 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:57.600 ask a murderer, If you want to know whether Carl's 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:01.560 background had anything to do with what happened to his daughter, 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:05.880 flat out asking if he believes that somebody in his 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:10.120 past was seeking retribution, then we'll know that. Y'all, this 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:13.840 is a case like none other that I have ever 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:17.960 heard of that I've ever worked. I can't even find 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:24.160 anything in just general research that has happened like this historically. 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:31.400 There is no other case like Melissa Wolfenberger. Here's why 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:36.040 you have her father who has been named and classified 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:39.960 as a serial killer by law enforcement. Her daddy's a 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:43.440 Flint River killer. That's the moniker. You're going to learn 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:47.560 later that he hates that, that he does not consider 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:51.480 himself a serial killer, because he will tell you he's 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:55.200 not a Ted Bundy type. He has never sought somebody 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:57.880 out to murder them. That he did not know. He's 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:00.320 never stalked and killed anybody that he did not have 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:03.520 a connection with. He has never killed the same victim 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:07.240 over and over and over like a Ted Bundy. So 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:11.560 in this case, we have a serial killer turned crime 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:16.720 victim who turned to the detective that arrested him for help, 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:21.640 who then turned to a nonprofit for help, who then 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:26.440 got his family to meet with the disc attorney over 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:30.000 the case. So he has tried to put as much 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:34.120 effort into this as he could from where he sat 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:38.720 in prison. So I can find no other case in 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:42.400 history where a murderer had a loved one in their 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:47.120 family murdered, who asked law enforcement for help, who asked 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:50.240 a nonprofit for help, who then went to the prosecutor 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:54.720 for help. Carl Patton can't be on the podcast. He 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:58.360 has no access to a computer with headphones or a 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:03.200 cell phone, and he's not allowed outside visitors that are 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:07.320 not family members. I made a formal request to the 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:10.600 Department of Corrections to meet with him, and I was denied. 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.680 Carl will speak to us today the only way that 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:19.720 he can. Through letters. Through the years, Carl and I 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:23.120 have communicated about his life growing up, when he was 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:27.400 a little boy. I've asked him intimate questions about his family, 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:35.360 his crimes, his incarceration, and his fight for justice for Melissa. Today, 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:37.880 you're going to be able to hear his answers to 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:43.120 my questions. Today we get to go inside Dodge State 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:46.640 Prison the only way we can and talk to Carl Patton. 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:52.159 We spoke to Normal Patton, who admitted that she helped 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:55.920 Carl dispose of bodies in the Flint River. First time 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:58.440 I ever met her. She sat down with me and 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:02.200 she said, my daughter was beheaded in Atlanta. Will you 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:05.560 help me? Absolutely, I offered to help her. I asked 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:07.280 her to meet me in my office at the college, 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:10.920 and she did. Before we started to talk about Melissa, 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:13.440 she told me straight out, I need to tell you 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:18.440 something before you truly agree to help me. And she said, 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:22.479 my husband is in prison for murder and I helped him, 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:26.600 but we had a deal so I didn't go to prison. 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:31.120 That was a shocking statement. I didn't know her past 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:35.480 prior to her meeting with me. I didn't know anything 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:40.440 about Carl Patton. I had heard of the Flint River murders, 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:44.880 but only cursory. But here's the deal. In my business 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:48.640 in the real world at the police department, we don't 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:50.600 get to pick and choose who we help and who 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:54.680 we don't. If there is a victim of crime, we 0:05:54.839 --> 0:06:01.240 helped that person, period. So Carl's passed enormous path was 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:05.000 not going to determine from helping Melissa, because the bottom 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:09.040 line is, the sins of the father have nothing to 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:12.480 do with what happened to Melissa. She was an innocent, 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:17.000 twenty one year old young wife and mother that did 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:20.880 not deserve to have her arms and legs and head 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:25.440 cut off from her body and discarded in trash bags 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:31.920 like she was garbage. Her children deserved better, her family 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:35.520 deserved better. And I also want to be very clear, 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:40.640 Carl Patton did what he did. He deserves to be 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:45.919 in prison. In two thousand and three, Carl Millard Patton 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:51.840 Junior was arrested. He was later convicted of the nineteen 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:57.719 seventy seven murders of Fred White, Lyddy Matthews Evans, and 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:03.120 evans boyfriend Joe Cleveland. He has never denied that to me. 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:07.520 He has never misrepresented the facts to me that I know. 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:10.960 Of every question that I have ever asked him, he 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:15.240 has answered, sometimes more than once let's talk a little 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:18.800 bit about the timeline to catch you up. November the ninth, 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:23.200 nineteen ninety eight, Melissa was last seen by her mom 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:29.280 December nineteen ninety eight. Melissa's husband states that's the last 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:31.600 time he ever saw her. He saw her walking down 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:34.640 the streets. She said she was headed off and he 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:36.800 never saw her again, and he just thought she moved 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:40.520 to California without him. Keep in mind, Melissa I had 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:45.240 no car, no phone, no money, no luggage with her, 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:50.440 and she left behind her two small children. Between October 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:55.600 nineteen ninety eight in February of nineteen ninety nine. Her 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:59.320 husband worked at a place called Action Class. He never 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:04.000 reports her missing. He never calls her family and says, 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:05.920 will you help me look for her? Have you heard 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:09.440 from her? Is she with y'all? He never tries to 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:12.360 find her. He never tries to make sure the children 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:15.480 can see her and visit with her and be co 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:19.120 parented by her. As a matter of fact, the house 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:23.400 they were living in together he moved out of. He 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:27.600 moved to a different city in South Georgia, and did 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:33.720 so using an assumed name. April twenty ninth, nineteen ninety nine, 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:36.760 a severed skull is found in the middle of Avon 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:41.960 Avenue June third, nineteen ninety nine. Arms and legs are 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:47.679 found in four additional trashbags in the same area. November 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:53.640 of nineteen ninety nine, Melissa's mom, Norma, officially reports her missing. Now, 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:56.240 y'all remember from the other episode, she tried to get 0:08:56.280 --> 0:09:00.360 her hometown in Henry County to take a report. They said, 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:03.839 Melissa doesn't live here. She's a grown, married woman. She 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:05.800 can walk out of her life if she wants to. 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:09.719 We have no evidence of a crime. Norma reaches out 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:12.520 to the Atlanta Police Department, who rode by to do 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:15.560 a welfare check. There was nobody there, no blood, no 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:19.160 broken glass, the door wasn't kicked in. They basically gave 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:22.480 her the same speech. She's a grown woman, she's married, 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:25.400 husband hasn't reported her. She can take a powder if 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:29.280 she wants to. When Carl is arrested for the nineteen 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:33.040 seventy seven murders, Detective Bruce Jordan is the one that 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:36.680 arrested him, and Norma and Carl had a lot of 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:42.000 conversations about, well, if he called Carl after twenty five years, 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:45.280 he must be pretty good at his job and maybe 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:48.520 we should ask him to help find Melissa, because at 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:52.560 this point she's still a missing person. So Norma goes 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:57.040 to Bruce Jordan with Carl's blessing and encouragement, to say, 0:09:57.160 --> 0:10:01.920 will you help find our daughter? And to his credit, 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:05.200 he said yes, and he's the one that discovered the 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:09.000 severed head was just feet from where her husband worked 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:14.000 at Action Glass on March fourteenth, two thousand and three. 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:20.599 The remains are identified as Melissa Wolfenburger. Tragically, law enforcement 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:31.040 lost four years that they could have been investigating a homicide. Obviously, 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:35.960 Carl Patton cannot speak for himself on this podcast, so 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:41.800 Walt McCollum, my husband has agreed to read Carl's letters 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:44.680 so that it's going to be real clear that Carl 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:47.880 is speaking when you hear a male voice. And I 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:51.480 also want to be very clear that Christopher Wolfenberger has 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:58.800 denied any involvement in Melissa's murder. June sixteenth, twenty twenty one, 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:03.280 Miss Cheryl, I would like to correct something you said 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:07.559 in your letter. You said Chris knew that I'd kill 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:11.559 him if I ever got out. Norman made me promise 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:15.920 I wouldn't not out for forgiveness but for the sake 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:20.400 of the children and Melissa's grandson and the fact that 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:24.840 I would be back in prison. Cheryl Chris is not 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:30.240 worth me being separated from my family one more minute plus. 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:36.040 I really did not understand the hurt and grief I 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:41.680 caused with my actions until we lost Melissa. I never 0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:47.000 want to cause anyone that type of pain ever again, 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:51.880 and I pray God has or will forgive me for 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:57.920 my sins and actions. April twenty first, twenty twenty two. 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:01.480 I am anxious about the evidence that has been found. 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:06.480 My main focus is on the bags Melissa's body was 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:10.800 placed in. We both know it would be hard to 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:17.080 tie knots, especially in plastic bags, without leaving trace evidence 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:21.880 of some sort. Whenever murder occurs, some kind of evidence 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:28.079 is left. No matter how careful the killer is, evidence 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:33.120 will be there. It may be overlooked, but that does 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:37.440 not mean it's not there. There is no perfect crime. 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:43.280 PS told Norma and Tena May, I was glad you 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:47.640 and miss Adrian were never after me when I was 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:53.120 doing wrong. Thank God, I am not that man any longer. 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:59.160 July twenty second, twenty twenty one. Melissa Dawn was my 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:02.880 baby girl who carried my heart the first time I 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:07.960 held her. She was a happy, beautiful young lady, made 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:12.080 good grades in schools, was an rotc and had the 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:16.000 bright future in front of her. All that changed when 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:21.679 she met Chris Wolfenburger. He had an unhealthy influence on her. 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:26.080 She changed, and not for the better. She started sneaking 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:29.840 out at night to meet him and do god knows what. 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:35.040 He even talked her into stealing my car twice. She 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:40.240 and Chris had planned to run away to California, his idea. 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:45.800 After Melissa became pregnant and had Christina. Chris done everything 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:50.080 he could to keep Melissa and Christina away from me 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:54.360 and Norma. Now she had to sneak away from him, 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:59.000 not sneak to meet him. Only time we ever got 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:03.679 to see Melissa and Christina was when Chris was at work. 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:08.360 Melissa told us she'd be in big trouble if he 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:14.440 found out she had often had bruises on her arms 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:18.360 and neck. Norman and I tried to tell her it 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:24.360 was an unsafe and unhealthy relationship, but she was in 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:29.000 love and wouldn't listen. When Melissa didn't show up at 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:32.920 Christmas to get her gifts, and then we couldn't locate her. 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:36.840 I knew in my mind and heart Chris had done 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:44.960 something to Melissa. September sixteenth, twenty twenty two, Miss Cheryl, 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:48.080 thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:52.760 to write and continue to keep me informed on Melissa's case. 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:56.640 Last week was a rough one. Melissa would have turned 0:14:56.720 --> 0:15:02.040 forty five on Friday. Your letters are greatly appreciated. They 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:06.840 continue to reassure me that someone other than my family 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:11.040 is concerned in seeking justice for her. Thank you for 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:16.480 your effort and determination on Melissa's behalf. My family and 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:21.840 I owe a great debt of gratitude that cannot be repaid. 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:28.360 October eleventh, twenty twenty two. How do you kill the 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:32.360 mother of your two children and then look at those 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:36.200 children in the eye and say your mother deserted you 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:40.840 because she didn't want you. Then, when it's proven this 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:44.120 mother is dead and they want us to visit the grave, 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:49.160 you take them to a different location and claim someone 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:53.760 must have moved her. Miss Cheryl, I have told you 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:58.000 I had to lose Melissa and feel the pain to 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:03.240 really realize the damage and harm I caused people I 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:07.560 did not know. Please tell me who does Chris have 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:12.520 to lose to realize the hurt, heartache, and anguish his 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:17.360 actions caused. A guilty conscience is a hell on earth 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:22.480 that continues to punish and convict, and I deal with 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:26.720 it every day. I pray that one day soon Chris 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:30.600 will get a conscience and see the wrong he has done. 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:36.200 I wish Chris had killed me instead of Melissa. That way, 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:40.200 I wouldn't have to live with the guilt of knowing 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:44.280 I was not there to protect her every time I 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:47.520 look at her picture. Pain is the price you pay 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:52.240 for loving your children. So deeply want you to know 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:56.840 my family and I appreciate your efforts in Melissa's case 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:02.040 and keeping us in the loop. Chris Wolfenburger has gotten 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:06.040 away with his crime long enough, and for the first 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:10.520 time in a long time, I believe he will get 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:15.560 his due very soon. Also pleased to see the investigating 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:20.240 agents agree with me that there is only one suspect 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:25.960 in this case, Chris Wolfenburger. Have read the geographic profile 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:31.560 several times and for most part I agree ninety five. 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:36.320 I want you to know in my heart, killer does 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:43.240 not describe me. Loving, protective father, husband and provider describes 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:46.880 me and I pray you will see that as well. 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:51.960 I'm willing to do anything to help bring Melissa's killer 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:57.320 to justice. I have only two goals left in my life. 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:02.560 One is justice for Melissa. In getting back home to 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:06.600 my family, to hear my children's laughter, and to wake 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:11.560 up next to my wife one more time. This is 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:19.320 my dream. When I was first reviewing the entire case file, 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:23.760 so much good work had been done once they knew 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.960 they had a murder. Some real stellar work, as a 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:29.359 matter of fact, was done. But one thing that I 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:33.800 saw that was missing was a geographical profile. Now, if 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:36.920 you are not familiar with that term, it's really an 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:41.000 extraordinary and just super cool tool for law enforcement. They 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:45.720 take all the locations that are connected to either a 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:48.800 crime or a series of crimes, and they try to 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:53.239 determine the most probable area where an offender lives, and 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:58.960 this map shows a location that is most likely where 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:03.000 the offender's bay. He says that base is either his 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:07.560 home or his work. In other words, this place is 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:12.159 somewhere that he knows intimately, he feels safe, he feels protected, 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:14.840 he feels like he could work from there very easily. 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:19.639 And then it analyzes locations that are connected to the 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:25.159 crime to determine most likely, yes, this is the person 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:29.560 that picked this disposal site. It's most likely where this 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:33.960 person traveled the route that they took after they committed 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:36.879 the crime. So if you have somebody that leaves their home, 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:41.480 interacts with a victim, murders that victim, and then dumps 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:45.720 their body somewhere, the geographical profile when they know the 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:49.359 body disposal site and where the victim was last seen, 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:54.159 then they work backwards to show this most likely is 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:59.159 the area where the perpetrator lived or worked. So some 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:03.199 of the things that used to get this information into 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:09.000 their analysis, into their mapping, they will look at again, 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:14.560 where did this crime end. Is the victim found outdoors 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:18.720 in abandoned building, in their home, on a street somewhere. 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:21.920 Then they're going to work backwards to say where were 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:25.680 they last seen. They're going to utilize witness statements, law 0:20:25.760 --> 0:20:29.520 enforcement reports and get that exact address of where they 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:34.240 were last seen. Well, now you've got two critical addresses, 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:37.199 where the body was located and where the victim was 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:41.320 last seen. They also add things from the victim's life, 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:44.159 where the victim went to school, where the victim worked, 0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:48.359 because again, where did this killer and victim first intersect, 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:51.640 they can try to predict that when they're looking at 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:54.600 this map, there's going to be some hot zones where, 0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:58.879 perhaps you know, the victim is crossing into where the 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:04.639 perpetrator may live. Maybe she passes where he works every 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:06.800 day to go to her job or her school, or 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:09.680 her church or whatever it is that she's headed toward. 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:13.000 So in the case of Melissa, again we have her 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:18.159 most likely being killed at one location, being transported and 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:21.560 then being discarded at another. And then we have some 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:25.480 principal elements that somebody would want to look at. Where 0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:29.240 did she live, where did she work, where were her parents, 0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:35.760 her siblings, etc. So we were extremely fortunate that we 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:38.880 had somebody come forward to say, yes, I will help you. 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:43.719 And Douglas McGregor, who is in Canada, who is a 0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:48.800 geographical profiler. Y'all, he's a freaking wizard. And I tell 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:51.760 this story a lot of times so that people really 0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:56.679 understand when somebody is truly gifted in their expertise. And 0:21:56.800 --> 0:22:00.520 this is the situation with Douglas. We had a series 0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:03.400 of crimes in Atlanta not too long ago, and as 0:22:03.400 --> 0:22:07.880 soon as I started hearing about them, they were oddly familiar, 0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:10.600 kind of like a deja voo thing, and I'm like, 0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:13.960 why does this sound like I've heard this before, even 0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:17.639 though it was crimes that were unfolded. And I even 0:22:17.720 --> 0:22:21.320 reached out to David Quinn, who was the detective on 0:22:21.400 --> 0:22:24.400 the crimes that I was remembering, and even asked them, 0:22:24.520 --> 0:22:27.800 doesn't this sound like your case? Could this be a copycat? 0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:31.520 He said, they sound real similar to me, and yeah, 0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:34.640 I mean it could be a copycat. So I contacted 0:22:34.680 --> 0:22:39.640 Douglas and in real time and real quick, he did 0:22:39.680 --> 0:22:42.560 a profile and he said, no, this is a stranger. 0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:45.919 He has no idea of the other crimes you're talking about, 0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:49.080 and he's going to strike in this general area always, 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:53.159 and everything that he sent me I sent to the 0:22:53.240 --> 0:22:56.680 sergeant over the case, and it turned out he was 0:22:56.720 --> 0:23:00.960 absolutely right. I asked him if he would possibly look 0:23:01.000 --> 0:23:04.480 at Melissa Wolfenberger's case and he said absolutely, and he 0:23:04.600 --> 0:23:09.320 generated a report for the police and the prosecutor, and again, 0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:14.240 stellar work, just peerless, the really cool thing on Melissa's 0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:17.320 case that had never been done before. So it was 0:23:17.359 --> 0:23:20.480 just one more thing that we could give to investigators 0:23:20.480 --> 0:23:23.280 into the DA's office to say, look, it's not just 0:23:23.359 --> 0:23:26.399 us telling you there's an analysis that's being done by 0:23:26.440 --> 0:23:30.800 an expert's going to show you the same thing. We're 0:23:30.840 --> 0:23:34.240 going to wrap up this episode with one final letter 0:23:34.920 --> 0:23:40.480 from Carl November third, twenty twenty two. In your last letter, 0:23:41.400 --> 0:23:46.760 you also asked very pointed questions about my past family 0:23:47.160 --> 0:23:54.000 norma parents, children, in crimes, things that are usually off limits. However, 0:23:54.680 --> 0:23:57.800 I'm going to try to answer them as honestly as 0:23:57.840 --> 0:24:01.720 I can. So I always started the beginning. My mother 0:24:02.200 --> 0:24:06.439 my father lived through the Great Depression and know what 0:24:06.560 --> 0:24:11.080 it meant to work hard and still do without. My 0:24:11.200 --> 0:24:14.080 dad used to tell me when he needed a new 0:24:14.160 --> 0:24:17.520 pair of shoes, all he had to do was put 0:24:17.560 --> 0:24:21.160 a piece of cardboard in the bottom of the old ones. 0:24:22.040 --> 0:24:26.280 Was his second son and only one of my mother, 0:24:26.640 --> 0:24:29.679 who was thirty six years old when I came along. 0:24:30.240 --> 0:24:33.239 Mom was the oldest girl of eight and had to 0:24:33.280 --> 0:24:38.520 help watch after her other brothers and sisters. She always 0:24:38.600 --> 0:24:42.560 dreamed of having her own children, but I came late 0:24:42.600 --> 0:24:46.720 in their lives. Family rumor says she found out she 0:24:46.840 --> 0:24:51.159 was pregnant, she ran around yellowing I got me a 0:24:51.240 --> 0:24:54.679 hot shot, and that's where I got my nickname and 0:24:54.840 --> 0:24:58.680 nothing to do with my criminal activities. Mom and Dad 0:24:58.720 --> 0:25:04.000 always made sure I knew I was loved, wanted, and protected. 0:25:05.040 --> 0:25:08.480 Growing up, I'd like to play football and fish did 0:25:08.520 --> 0:25:12.880 not like school. My mother was always my safety blanket 0:25:13.200 --> 0:25:16.439 and my best friend. That's why it hurts now to 0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:21.960 know I disappointed her sometimes, and another reason I'm trying 0:25:22.400 --> 0:25:27.640 now to be a better person. Family loyalty started with 0:25:27.720 --> 0:25:32.760 my grandfather. He always said family first, and to be 0:25:32.920 --> 0:25:37.320 true to your word and your friends. He taught my mother, 0:25:37.800 --> 0:25:42.440 and she taught me. Now I try to pass that 0:25:42.560 --> 0:25:47.280 on to my children. All my mother ever wanted was 0:25:47.320 --> 0:25:51.439 for me to go to church, get educated, own my 0:25:51.520 --> 0:25:56.400 own home, and have grandchildren. She loved Norma, and the 0:25:56.480 --> 0:25:59.880 happiest I ever saw my mother was when Norma gave 0:26:00.080 --> 0:26:04.600 birth to our first daughter. After Tina May was born, 0:26:05.240 --> 0:26:09.160 Norman could do no wrong. Wait, I'm getting ahead of myself. 0:26:09.760 --> 0:26:12.359 When I was young and growing up, we lived in 0:26:12.400 --> 0:26:17.760 College Park. My grandfather, Patton, lived on Main Street in 0:26:17.800 --> 0:26:22.240 a two story, three bedroom mansion he built from a 0:26:22.280 --> 0:26:26.919 two room shack. He was a master carpenter. Long about 0:26:27.040 --> 0:26:31.400 nineteen sixty one, we moved to Ellenwood, east of Forest Park. 0:26:32.080 --> 0:26:35.520 Mom had rented four hundred and six acres of land 0:26:36.240 --> 0:26:40.000 and a two bedroom house for sixty dollars a month. 0:26:40.680 --> 0:26:44.879 No heat, used coal heaters in a fireplace to stay warm. 0:26:45.520 --> 0:26:50.000 Where I owned my hunting skills and my mom bought 0:26:50.160 --> 0:26:55.679 my first house. There I met the Wade sisters, Donna 0:26:55.800 --> 0:26:59.560 and Teresa. The three of us rode horses every day 0:26:59.600 --> 0:27:05.080 after school. We all attended Jonesboro Junior High School, where 0:27:05.160 --> 0:27:10.359 I made some lifelong friendships. My happiest days had begun. 0:27:11.560 --> 0:27:16.199 Teresa Wade introduces me to my future. There she was 0:27:16.960 --> 0:27:22.639 dark complexion, pretty smile, brown eyes, and gray hair. Not 0:27:22.720 --> 0:27:25.040 a lot of gray hair, but enough to be interesting 0:27:25.160 --> 0:27:29.639 at fifteen years old. There she stood my soul mate, 0:27:30.040 --> 0:27:36.959 lifelong partner, best friend, lover, mother, rock of my future family. Norma. 0:27:38.760 --> 0:27:43.000 Did the ADA and the media and myself reach out 0:27:43.040 --> 0:27:45.920 to a killer to try to help solve Melissa's case? Yes, 0:27:46.280 --> 0:27:48.359 and in this case that killer just happens to be 0:27:48.440 --> 0:27:51.800 her father. But he has part of the victimology, he 0:27:51.880 --> 0:27:55.679 has an understanding of part of the suspectology. And again 0:27:56.119 --> 0:28:00.080 we are not arguing whether or not Carl Patton and 0:28:00.119 --> 0:28:03.200 It's guilty, whether or not he's a serial killer. Whether 0:28:03.320 --> 0:28:06.040 or not he deserves to be in prison, there's no 0:28:06.160 --> 0:28:11.040 argument there. I'm going to end Zone seven, like I 0:28:11.119 --> 0:28:16.080 always do, by quoting somebody from my Zone seven. Tonight's 0:28:16.160 --> 0:28:21.919 quote comes from Jim Wrapping, former United States Secret Service agent, 0:28:22.960 --> 0:28:28.600 and he says, never look down at anyone unless extending 0:28:28.680 --> 0:28:32.320 a hand to pick them back up. And I think 0:28:32.359 --> 0:28:38.080 that is so applicable to Melissa's case. I'm Cheryl McCollum 0:28:38.080 --> 0:28:54.120 and this is Zone seven. I am often asked if 0:28:54.200 --> 0:28:58.240 Melissa's murderer was some type of retribution for Carl's murders. 0:28:58.840 --> 0:29:02.520 Join us next week as we talk exclusively to the 0:29:02.600 --> 0:29:06.640 children of Lyddy Evans. The children have an opportunity to 0:29:06.680 --> 0:29:10.680 honor their mother, and we have an opportunity to look 0:29:10.680 --> 0:29:14.800 at Karl's crimes and see if they factor in to 0:29:14.880 --> 0:29:16.720 the murder of Elissa Woffenberger.