1 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: Ms Coon, my fourth grade teacher, surprised us one day 2 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: by giving us the name and address of a child 3 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: in Denmark, and she told us that we were going 4 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: to have a penpal the whole school year, and we 5 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: were going to write letters to them every week. At 6 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: Christmas time, we were going to exchange gifts. We were 7 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: going to know their birthday and other special times for 8 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: them so that we could send them a gift or 9 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 1: some type of special recognition. This was a wonderful experience 10 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 1: to me because once I mailed off my letter, the 11 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: anticipation of getting one in return was always such a blast. 12 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: I could not wait. This was a slow process. It 13 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: was not making a phone call where you got immediate 14 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: answers to your questions. What's your favorite toy, do you 15 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: play a sport? Do you have brothers and sisters? We 16 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,839 Speaker 1: had to wait weeks to find out those answers. I'm 17 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: having that same experience a little bit with my relationship 18 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: with Carl Patton. Carl Patton is Melissa Wolfenberger's father, and 19 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 1: as you know from the previous episode where we talked 20 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: to Norma and Tina, her mom and sister, Karl is 21 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: incarcerated for murders that he committed in nineteen seventy seven. 22 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: But Carl wants to be a part of seeking justice 23 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: for Melissa, Well, he has information that I need, and 24 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: the only way I can do that is through letters. 25 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: I want to talk about the significance of including Carl 26 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: in this investigation. If you want to know why people murder, 27 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: ask a murderer, If you want to know whether Carl's 28 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: background had anything to do with what happened to his daughter, 29 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: flat out asking if he believes that somebody in his 30 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 1: past was seeking retribution, then we'll know that. Y'all, this 31 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: is a case like none other that I have ever 32 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 1: heard of that I've ever worked. I can't even find 33 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: anything in just general research that has happened like this historically. 34 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: There is no other case like Melissa Wolfenberger. Here's why 35 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: you have her father who has been named and classified 36 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 1: as a serial killer by law enforcement. Her daddy's a 37 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: Flint River killer. That's the moniker. You're going to learn 38 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: later that he hates that, that he does not consider 39 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: himself a serial killer, because he will tell you he's 40 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: not a Ted Bundy type. He has never sought somebody 41 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: out to murder them. That he did not know. He's 42 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: never stalked and killed anybody that he did not have 43 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 1: a connection with. He has never killed the same victim 44 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: over and over and over like a Ted Bundy. So 45 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: in this case, we have a serial killer turned crime 46 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: victim who turned to the detective that arrested him for help, 47 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 1: who then turned to a nonprofit for help, who then 48 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: got his family to meet with the disc attorney over 49 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: the case. So he has tried to put as much 50 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: effort into this as he could from where he sat 51 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: in prison. So I can find no other case in 52 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: history where a murderer had a loved one in their 53 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: family murdered, who asked law enforcement for help, who asked 54 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: a nonprofit for help, who then went to the prosecutor 55 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: for help. Carl Patton can't be on the podcast. He 56 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: has no access to a computer with headphones or a 57 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: cell phone, and he's not allowed outside visitors that are 58 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: not family members. I made a formal request to the 59 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: Department of Corrections to meet with him, and I was denied. 60 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: Carl will speak to us today the only way that 61 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 1: he can. Through letters. Through the years, Carl and I 62 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: have communicated about his life growing up, when he was 63 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: a little boy. I've asked him intimate questions about his family, 64 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 1: his crimes, his incarceration, and his fight for justice for Melissa. Today, 65 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: you're going to be able to hear his answers to 66 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: my questions. Today we get to go inside Dodge State 67 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: Prison the only way we can and talk to Carl Patton. 68 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 1: We spoke to Normal Patton, who admitted that she helped 69 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: Carl dispose of bodies in the Flint River. First time 70 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: I ever met her. She sat down with me and 71 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: she said, my daughter was beheaded in Atlanta. Will you 72 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: help me? Absolutely, I offered to help her. I asked 73 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 1: her to meet me in my office at the college, 74 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 1: and she did. Before we started to talk about Melissa, 75 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: she told me straight out, I need to tell you 76 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: something before you truly agree to help me. And she said, 77 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 1: my husband is in prison for murder and I helped him, 78 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 1: but we had a deal so I didn't go to prison. 79 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: That was a shocking statement. I didn't know her past 80 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 1: prior to her meeting with me. I didn't know anything 81 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: about Carl Patton. I had heard of the Flint River murders, 82 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: but only cursory. But here's the deal. In my business 83 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: in the real world at the police department, we don't 84 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 1: get to pick and choose who we help and who 85 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: we don't. If there is a victim of crime, we 86 00:05:54,839 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: helped that person, period. So Carl's passed enormous path was 87 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: not going to determine from helping Melissa, because the bottom 88 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 1: line is, the sins of the father have nothing to 89 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 1: do with what happened to Melissa. She was an innocent, 90 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: twenty one year old young wife and mother that did 91 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: not deserve to have her arms and legs and head 92 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: cut off from her body and discarded in trash bags 93 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: like she was garbage. Her children deserved better, her family 94 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: deserved better. And I also want to be very clear, 95 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: Carl Patton did what he did. He deserves to be 96 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:45,919 Speaker 1: in prison. In two thousand and three, Carl Millard Patton 97 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 1: Junior was arrested. He was later convicted of the nineteen 98 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 1: seventy seven murders of Fred White, Lyddy Matthews Evans, and 99 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: evans boyfriend Joe Cleveland. He has never denied that to me. 100 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: He has never misrepresented the facts to me that I know. 101 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: Of every question that I have ever asked him, he 102 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: has answered, sometimes more than once let's talk a little 103 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: bit about the timeline to catch you up. November the ninth, 104 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight, Melissa was last seen by her mom 105 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: December nineteen ninety eight. Melissa's husband states that's the last 106 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: time he ever saw her. He saw her walking down 107 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: the streets. She said she was headed off and he 108 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: never saw her again, and he just thought she moved 109 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: to California without him. Keep in mind, Melissa I had 110 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: no car, no phone, no money, no luggage with her, 111 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: and she left behind her two small children. Between October 112 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight in February of nineteen ninety nine. Her 113 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: husband worked at a place called Action Class. He never 114 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: reports her missing. He never calls her family and says, 115 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: will you help me look for her? Have you heard 116 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: from her? Is she with y'all? He never tries to 117 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: find her. He never tries to make sure the children 118 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: can see her and visit with her and be co 119 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: parented by her. As a matter of fact, the house 120 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: they were living in together he moved out of. He 121 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: moved to a different city in South Georgia, and did 122 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: so using an assumed name. April twenty ninth, nineteen ninety nine, 123 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: a severed skull is found in the middle of Avon 124 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: Avenue June third, nineteen ninety nine. Arms and legs are 125 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 1: found in four additional trashbags in the same area. November 126 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety nine, Melissa's mom, Norma, officially reports her missing. Now, 127 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: y'all remember from the other episode, she tried to get 128 00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: her hometown in Henry County to take a report. They said, 129 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,839 Speaker 1: Melissa doesn't live here. She's a grown, married woman. She 130 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: can walk out of her life if she wants to. 131 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,719 Speaker 1: We have no evidence of a crime. Norma reaches out 132 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: to the Atlanta Police Department, who rode by to do 133 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 1: a welfare check. There was nobody there, no blood, no 134 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: broken glass, the door wasn't kicked in. They basically gave 135 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: her the same speech. She's a grown woman, she's married, 136 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: husband hasn't reported her. She can take a powder if 137 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: she wants to. When Carl is arrested for the nineteen 138 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: seventy seven murders, Detective Bruce Jordan is the one that 139 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 1: arrested him, and Norma and Carl had a lot of 140 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: conversations about, well, if he called Carl after twenty five years, 141 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: he must be pretty good at his job and maybe 142 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: we should ask him to help find Melissa, because at 143 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: this point she's still a missing person. So Norma goes 144 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: to Bruce Jordan with Carl's blessing and encouragement, to say, 145 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: will you help find our daughter? And to his credit, 146 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: he said yes, and he's the one that discovered the 147 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: severed head was just feet from where her husband worked 148 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: at Action Glass on March fourteenth, two thousand and three. 149 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:20,599 Speaker 1: The remains are identified as Melissa Wolfenburger. Tragically, law enforcement 150 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: lost four years that they could have been investigating a homicide. Obviously, 151 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: Carl Patton cannot speak for himself on this podcast, so 152 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: Walt McCollum, my husband has agreed to read Carl's letters 153 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: so that it's going to be real clear that Carl 154 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: is speaking when you hear a male voice. And I 155 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: also want to be very clear that Christopher Wolfenberger has 156 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: denied any involvement in Melissa's murder. June sixteenth, twenty twenty one, 157 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: Miss Cheryl, I would like to correct something you said 158 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,559 Speaker 1: in your letter. You said Chris knew that I'd kill 159 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 1: him if I ever got out. Norman made me promise 160 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: I wouldn't not out for forgiveness but for the sake 161 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: of the children and Melissa's grandson and the fact that 162 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: I would be back in prison. Cheryl Chris is not 163 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: worth me being separated from my family one more minute plus. 164 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: I really did not understand the hurt and grief I 165 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:41,680 Speaker 1: caused with my actions until we lost Melissa. I never 166 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: want to cause anyone that type of pain ever again, 167 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: and I pray God has or will forgive me for 168 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: my sins and actions. April twenty first, twenty twenty two. 169 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: I am anxious about the evidence that has been found. 170 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: My main focus is on the bags Melissa's body was 171 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: placed in. We both know it would be hard to 172 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 1: tie knots, especially in plastic bags, without leaving trace evidence 173 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: of some sort. Whenever murder occurs, some kind of evidence 174 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:28,079 Speaker 1: is left. No matter how careful the killer is, evidence 175 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: will be there. It may be overlooked, but that does 176 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: not mean it's not there. There is no perfect crime. 177 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: PS told Norma and Tena May, I was glad you 178 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: and miss Adrian were never after me when I was 179 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: doing wrong. Thank God, I am not that man any longer. 180 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: July twenty second, twenty twenty one. Melissa Dawn was my 181 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: baby girl who carried my heart the first time I 182 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: held her. She was a happy, beautiful young lady, made 183 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: good grades in schools, was an rotc and had the 184 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: bright future in front of her. All that changed when 185 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 1: she met Chris Wolfenburger. He had an unhealthy influence on her. 186 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: She changed, and not for the better. She started sneaking 187 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 1: out at night to meet him and do god knows what. 188 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: He even talked her into stealing my car twice. She 189 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: and Chris had planned to run away to California, his idea. 190 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: After Melissa became pregnant and had Christina. Chris done everything 191 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 1: he could to keep Melissa and Christina away from me 192 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: and Norma. Now she had to sneak away from him, 193 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: not sneak to meet him. Only time we ever got 194 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 1: to see Melissa and Christina was when Chris was at work. 195 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: Melissa told us she'd be in big trouble if he 196 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 1: found out she had often had bruises on her arms 197 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: and neck. Norman and I tried to tell her it 198 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: was an unsafe and unhealthy relationship, but she was in 199 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: love and wouldn't listen. When Melissa didn't show up at 200 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 1: Christmas to get her gifts, and then we couldn't locate her. 201 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: I knew in my mind and heart Chris had done 202 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: something to Melissa. September sixteenth, twenty twenty two, Miss Cheryl, 203 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 1: thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule 204 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: to write and continue to keep me informed on Melissa's case. 205 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: Last week was a rough one. Melissa would have turned 206 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: forty five on Friday. Your letters are greatly appreciated. They 207 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: continue to reassure me that someone other than my family 208 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: is concerned in seeking justice for her. Thank you for 209 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: your effort and determination on Melissa's behalf. My family and 210 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: I owe a great debt of gratitude that cannot be repaid. 211 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: October eleventh, twenty twenty two. How do you kill the 212 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: mother of your two children and then look at those 213 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: children in the eye and say your mother deserted you 214 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: because she didn't want you. Then, when it's proven this 215 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: mother is dead and they want us to visit the grave, 216 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: you take them to a different location and claim someone 217 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: must have moved her. Miss Cheryl, I have told you 218 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: I had to lose Melissa and feel the pain to 219 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: really realize the damage and harm I caused people I 220 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: did not know. Please tell me who does Chris have 221 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: to lose to realize the hurt, heartache, and anguish his 222 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: actions caused. A guilty conscience is a hell on earth 223 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: that continues to punish and convict, and I deal with 224 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: it every day. I pray that one day soon Chris 225 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: will get a conscience and see the wrong he has done. 226 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: I wish Chris had killed me instead of Melissa. That way, 227 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: I wouldn't have to live with the guilt of knowing 228 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: I was not there to protect her every time I 229 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 1: look at her picture. Pain is the price you pay 230 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: for loving your children. So deeply want you to know 231 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: my family and I appreciate your efforts in Melissa's case 232 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: and keeping us in the loop. Chris Wolfenburger has gotten 233 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: away with his crime long enough, and for the first 234 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: time in a long time, I believe he will get 235 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: his due very soon. Also pleased to see the investigating 236 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: agents agree with me that there is only one suspect 237 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 1: in this case, Chris Wolfenburger. Have read the geographic profile 238 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: several times and for most part I agree ninety five. 239 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: I want you to know in my heart, killer does 240 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: not describe me. Loving, protective father, husband and provider describes 241 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,880 Speaker 1: me and I pray you will see that as well. 242 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: I'm willing to do anything to help bring Melissa's killer 243 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: to justice. I have only two goals left in my life. 244 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: One is justice for Melissa. In getting back home to 245 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: my family, to hear my children's laughter, and to wake 246 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: up next to my wife one more time. This is 247 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 1: my dream. When I was first reviewing the entire case file, 248 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: so much good work had been done once they knew 249 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: they had a murder. Some real stellar work, as a 250 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 1: matter of fact, was done. But one thing that I 251 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: saw that was missing was a geographical profile. Now, if 252 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 1: you are not familiar with that term, it's really an 253 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: extraordinary and just super cool tool for law enforcement. They 254 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: take all the locations that are connected to either a 255 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: crime or a series of crimes, and they try to 256 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:53,239 Speaker 1: determine the most probable area where an offender lives, and 257 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 1: this map shows a location that is most likely where 258 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: the offender's bay. He says that base is either his 259 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: home or his work. In other words, this place is 260 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:12,159 Speaker 1: somewhere that he knows intimately, he feels safe, he feels protected, 261 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: he feels like he could work from there very easily. 262 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 1: And then it analyzes locations that are connected to the 263 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 1: crime to determine most likely, yes, this is the person 264 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: that picked this disposal site. It's most likely where this 265 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: person traveled the route that they took after they committed 266 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,879 Speaker 1: the crime. So if you have somebody that leaves their home, 267 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: interacts with a victim, murders that victim, and then dumps 268 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: their body somewhere, the geographical profile when they know the 269 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 1: body disposal site and where the victim was last seen, 270 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 1: then they work backwards to show this most likely is 271 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 1: the area where the perpetrator lived or worked. So some 272 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:03,199 Speaker 1: of the things that used to get this information into 273 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: their analysis, into their mapping, they will look at again, 274 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: where did this crime end. Is the victim found outdoors 275 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: in abandoned building, in their home, on a street somewhere. 276 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 1: Then they're going to work backwards to say where were 277 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 1: they last seen. They're going to utilize witness statements, law 278 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: enforcement reports and get that exact address of where they 279 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: were last seen. Well, now you've got two critical addresses, 280 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,199 Speaker 1: where the body was located and where the victim was 281 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: last seen. They also add things from the victim's life, 282 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,159 Speaker 1: where the victim went to school, where the victim worked, 283 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:48,359 Speaker 1: because again, where did this killer and victim first intersect, 284 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,640 Speaker 1: they can try to predict that when they're looking at 285 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: this map, there's going to be some hot zones where, 286 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 1: perhaps you know, the victim is crossing into where the 287 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 1: perpetrator may live. Maybe she passes where he works every 288 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: day to go to her job or her school, or 289 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 1: her church or whatever it is that she's headed toward. 290 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: So in the case of Melissa, again we have her 291 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:18,159 Speaker 1: most likely being killed at one location, being transported and 292 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: then being discarded at another. And then we have some 293 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: principal elements that somebody would want to look at. Where 294 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: did she live, where did she work, where were her parents, 295 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: her siblings, etc. So we were extremely fortunate that we 296 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,880 Speaker 1: had somebody come forward to say, yes, I will help you. 297 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,719 Speaker 1: And Douglas McGregor, who is in Canada, who is a 298 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: geographical profiler. Y'all, he's a freaking wizard. And I tell 299 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: this story a lot of times so that people really 300 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:56,679 Speaker 1: understand when somebody is truly gifted in their expertise. And 301 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: this is the situation with Douglas. We had a series 302 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,400 Speaker 1: of crimes in Atlanta not too long ago, and as 303 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 1: soon as I started hearing about them, they were oddly familiar, 304 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: kind of like a deja voo thing, and I'm like, 305 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: why does this sound like I've heard this before, even 306 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 1: though it was crimes that were unfolded. And I even 307 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: reached out to David Quinn, who was the detective on 308 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,400 Speaker 1: the crimes that I was remembering, and even asked them, 309 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: doesn't this sound like your case? Could this be a copycat? 310 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: He said, they sound real similar to me, and yeah, 311 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,640 Speaker 1: I mean it could be a copycat. So I contacted 312 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:39,640 Speaker 1: Douglas and in real time and real quick, he did 313 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: a profile and he said, no, this is a stranger. 314 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,919 Speaker 1: He has no idea of the other crimes you're talking about, 315 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: and he's going to strike in this general area always, 316 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,159 Speaker 1: and everything that he sent me I sent to the 317 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 1: sergeant over the case, and it turned out he was 318 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: absolutely right. I asked him if he would possibly look 319 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 1: at Melissa Wolfenberger's case and he said absolutely, and he 320 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: generated a report for the police and the prosecutor, and again, 321 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: stellar work, just peerless, the really cool thing on Melissa's 322 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: case that had never been done before. So it was 323 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: just one more thing that we could give to investigators 324 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: into the DA's office to say, look, it's not just 325 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 1: us telling you there's an analysis that's being done by 326 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: an expert's going to show you the same thing. We're 327 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: going to wrap up this episode with one final letter 328 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: from Carl November third, twenty twenty two. In your last letter, 329 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: you also asked very pointed questions about my past family 330 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: norma parents, children, in crimes, things that are usually off limits. However, 331 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: I'm going to try to answer them as honestly as 332 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 1: I can. So I always started the beginning. My mother 333 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:06,439 Speaker 1: my father lived through the Great Depression and know what 334 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: it meant to work hard and still do without. My 335 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: dad used to tell me when he needed a new 336 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: pair of shoes, all he had to do was put 337 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 1: a piece of cardboard in the bottom of the old ones. 338 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: Was his second son and only one of my mother, 339 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,679 Speaker 1: who was thirty six years old when I came along. 340 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,239 Speaker 1: Mom was the oldest girl of eight and had to 341 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: help watch after her other brothers and sisters. She always 342 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: dreamed of having her own children, but I came late 343 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: in their lives. Family rumor says she found out she 344 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 1: was pregnant, she ran around yellowing I got me a 345 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 1: hot shot, and that's where I got my nickname and 346 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 1: nothing to do with my criminal activities. Mom and Dad 347 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: always made sure I knew I was loved, wanted, and protected. 348 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: Growing up, I'd like to play football and fish did 349 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 1: not like school. My mother was always my safety blanket 350 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 1: and my best friend. That's why it hurts now to 351 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 1: know I disappointed her sometimes, and another reason I'm trying 352 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 1: now to be a better person. Family loyalty started with 353 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: my grandfather. He always said family first, and to be 354 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: true to your word and your friends. He taught my mother, 355 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 1: and she taught me. Now I try to pass that 356 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: on to my children. All my mother ever wanted was 357 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 1: for me to go to church, get educated, own my 358 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:56,400 Speaker 1: own home, and have grandchildren. She loved Norma, and the 359 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,880 Speaker 1: happiest I ever saw my mother was when Norma gave 360 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: birth to our first daughter. After Tina May was born, 361 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 1: Norman could do no wrong. Wait, I'm getting ahead of myself. 362 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 1: When I was young and growing up, we lived in 363 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 1: College Park. My grandfather, Patton, lived on Main Street in 364 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: a two story, three bedroom mansion he built from a 365 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:26,919 Speaker 1: two room shack. He was a master carpenter. Long about 366 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:31,400 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty one, we moved to Ellenwood, east of Forest Park. 367 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: Mom had rented four hundred and six acres of land 368 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: and a two bedroom house for sixty dollars a month. 369 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 1: No heat, used coal heaters in a fireplace to stay warm. 370 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: Where I owned my hunting skills and my mom bought 371 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:55,679 Speaker 1: my first house. There I met the Wade sisters, Donna 372 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: and Teresa. The three of us rode horses every day 373 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: after school. We all attended Jonesboro Junior High School, where 374 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 1: I made some lifelong friendships. My happiest days had begun. 375 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:16,199 Speaker 1: Teresa Wade introduces me to my future. There she was 376 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 1: dark complexion, pretty smile, brown eyes, and gray hair. Not 377 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: a lot of gray hair, but enough to be interesting 378 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 1: at fifteen years old. There she stood my soul mate, 379 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:36,959 Speaker 1: lifelong partner, best friend, lover, mother, rock of my future family. Norma. 380 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: Did the ADA and the media and myself reach out 381 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,920 Speaker 1: to a killer to try to help solve Melissa's case? Yes, 382 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 1: and in this case that killer just happens to be 383 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: her father. But he has part of the victimology, he 384 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,679 Speaker 1: has an understanding of part of the suspectology. And again 385 00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 1: we are not arguing whether or not Carl Patton and 386 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: It's guilty, whether or not he's a serial killer. Whether 387 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 1: or not he deserves to be in prison, there's no 388 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: argument there. I'm going to end Zone seven, like I 389 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: always do, by quoting somebody from my Zone seven. Tonight's 390 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:21,919 Speaker 1: quote comes from Jim Wrapping, former United States Secret Service agent, 391 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: and he says, never look down at anyone unless extending 392 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: a hand to pick them back up. And I think 393 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: that is so applicable to Melissa's case. I'm Cheryl McCollum 394 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: and this is Zone seven. I am often asked if 395 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 1: Melissa's murderer was some type of retribution for Carl's murders. 396 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: Join us next week as we talk exclusively to the 397 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: children of Lyddy Evans. The children have an opportunity to 398 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: honor their mother, and we have an opportunity to look 399 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: at Karl's crimes and see if they factor in to 400 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 1: the murder of Elissa Woffenberger.