1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:05,160 Speaker 1: Laura's new plea deal expires on the day this episode 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: comes out, Friday, June twenty sixth, but we likely won't 3 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: have an answer until Monday, June twenty ninth. As we wait, 4 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 1: I want to catch you up on what's been happening 5 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:21,240 Speaker 1: over the past six weeks outside of Laura's criminal proceedings. First, 6 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 1: I spoke with the journalist who's been in touch with 7 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 1: the Owens family. 8 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 2: We believe our daughter, then we believe her. Now we 9 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 2: stood by her, then we stand by her now. 10 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,160 Speaker 1: Then we have an update on the Owen's family home 11 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: foreclosure and their bankruptcy filings. 12 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 3: Their adult daughter, who has autism, also resides at the property. 13 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 3: Displacement from this property would cause severe disruption to a 14 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 3: household organized entirely around the medical needs of an elderly, 15 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 3: seriously ill resident. 16 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: Plus, it seems like Laura's been staying active online. 17 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 4: We have received a privacy complaint regarding your content. Upon 18 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 4: an analysis of your claim, we have removed the content 19 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 4: in question. 20 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: I'm Stephanie Young and this is love trapped. 21 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 5: There's no way you'd better believe. 22 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 6: I'll be raising Holy helm Us if you ever, ever, ever, ever. 23 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: Trashic since the podcast dropped. There is one topic everyone 24 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: seems particularly interested in Laura's parents, Ron Owens and Jan Black. 25 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: How much do they actually know do they support Laura. 26 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: To find out, I turned to longtime Bay Area reporter 27 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: Martha Ross. She first reached out to Ron and Jan 28 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: back in January of twenty twenty five. 29 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 2: I saw a Facebook post from a friend of theirs, 30 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 2: a former KGO colleague, who was talking about this go 31 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 2: fundme for Ron Owens, and I thought this is really 32 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 2: startling news, given Ron's stature in the Bay Area and 33 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,679 Speaker 2: an assumption that given his forty years at KGO, that 34 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 2: he was probably pretty well off and why would he 35 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 2: need to go fund me? But I also know he 36 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,399 Speaker 2: was very beloved in the community, so I emailed them. 37 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: On December thirty first, twenty twenty four, a gofund me 38 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: campaign was launched for Ron Owens. Keep in mind the 39 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: timeline here. This was nearly six months after the Arizona 40 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 1: Family Court had already ruled on Laura and Clayton's paternity case. 41 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:48,959 Speaker 1: But when Martha first reached out to Ron and Jan 42 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: she didn't know that yet. As a veteran San Francisco reporter, 43 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: she was simply trying to find out more about the 44 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: fundraiser for a legendary local broadcaster. 45 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 2: They talked to about the insurance they had didn't quite 46 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 2: cover all their medical expenses, and I was sympathetic to that. 47 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 2: I think we've all heard of that being the reality 48 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 2: for many people, so it made sense to me. 49 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 1: Ron's GoFundMe is still active online. It lays out a 50 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: long list of severe health challenges. We've had a section 51 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: of the GoFundMe page read by a voice actor. 52 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 3: Ron is facing profound challenges. After living with Parkinson's disease 53 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 3: for twenty three years, his health battles have intensified. He 54 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 3: has courageously faced not only Parkinson's, but also four bouts 55 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 3: of cancer, most recently colon cancer, and serious heart issues. 56 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 3: These medical struggles have taken a toll, both physically and financially, 57 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 3: on the man who has been a pillar of strength 58 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 3: for so many. 59 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: At the time I'm recording this, the GoFundMe for Ron 60 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: has raised over one hundred and thirty six thousand dollars. 61 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: But to put those numbers in perspective, Ron and Jan 62 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: filed for bankruptcy life last year, where they reported an 63 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: income of about twenty one thousand dollars per month. That 64 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: contrast has fueled intense online speculation that the crowdsource funds 65 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: are potentially being used to cover Laura's legal fees. I 66 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: obtained a copy of an email sent to past donors 67 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: of the GoFundMe. The subject line reads a message from Ron. 68 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: We've had an excerpt read by a voice actor. 69 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 7: Life has continued to test me Parkinson's four bouts of cancer, 70 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 7: serious heart and mobility issues, and the ongoing financial strain. 71 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 7: On top of all this, our family is now facing 72 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 7: another heartbreaking chapter with the recent politically motivated indictment of 73 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:46,039 Speaker 7: my daughter Laura. This stems from a legitimate paternity claim 74 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 7: she filed a couple of years ago against a former 75 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 7: reality TV star. Laura was pregnant at the time and 76 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 7: tragically suffered a miscarriage. What's been especially painful is that 77 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 7: the man she filed the claim against publicly denied she 78 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 7: was ever pregnant, and shockingly convinced a judge to question 79 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 7: the verified medical records, photographs, and video documentation that Laura 80 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 7: had submitted. Watching her personal tragedy dismissed and twisted has 81 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 7: been gut wrenching and to see it further monetized and 82 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 7: distorted by online content creators has made it worse. That said, 83 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 7: I want to be completely clear, the gofund me was 84 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 7: created solely to support. 85 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 3: Me and my needs. 86 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,119 Speaker 7: None of these funds have been or will be used 87 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 7: for Laura's legal expenses. 88 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 1: Back in January twenty twenty five, Bay Aerial reporter Martha 89 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: Ross began working on a story about Ron Owens and 90 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 1: his fundraiser. At the time, Martha didn't know anything about 91 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: the paternity scandal. During her first interview with Ron and Jan, 92 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: she was surprised when they began steering the conversation to 93 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: a different topic. Their daughter, Laura. 94 00:05:57,640 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 2: Jan did a lot of the talking, but Ron would 95 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 2: interject every once in a while. During that conversation, they 96 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 2: also told me a lot of other things about how 97 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: a lot of their financial struggles were because they felt 98 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 2: like there was this internet smear campaign against them and 99 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 2: it was affecting some of their businesses. Then they opened 100 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 2: up about how Laura had gotten into this situation with 101 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 2: Clayton eckered The Bachelor, and I didn't know anything about 102 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 2: The Bachelor. I haven't followed that show, and I also 103 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 2: didn't know about this online community of YouTubers who were 104 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 2: following this, so it was all news to me. 105 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: Soon Martha began to investigate. There was one claim in 106 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 1: particular that caught her attention. 107 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 2: They brought up those allegations that are part of the 108 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,719 Speaker 2: public record that Laura was lured into an encounter. 109 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:49,280 Speaker 1: They were referring to the highly serious and unproven allegation 110 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,919 Speaker 1: that Greg Gillespie and his attorney Greg Woodnick somehow conspired 111 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: to have Laura sexually assaulted. You heard about that in 112 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:58,160 Speaker 1: episode five. 113 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,919 Speaker 2: They both said that there was a FBI profiler that 114 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 2: Ron had interviewed was aware of the situation, and Ron said, 115 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 2: I believe it. I totally believe it. 116 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: Towards the end of that initial call, Laura joined the conversation. 117 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 2: They started telling me about Laura's situation with Clayton and 118 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 2: that she had these issues with these other men. There 119 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 2: was legal case and protective orders and things like that. 120 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 2: I said, you know, maybe this is something I could 121 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 2: follow up in the future. 122 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: And Martha did exactly that. Less than a week later, 123 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: she was on a call with Laura. I asked Marthough 124 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: whether Laura was still sticking to the narrative that she 125 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: was pregnant with Clayton's twins. 126 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 2: Yes, she was. She was sticking to the story that 127 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 2: she had the medical evidence and Ron and Jan were 128 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 2: supporting her. 129 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: Martha still had unanswered questions, so she circled back to 130 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 1: Ron and Jan for a second interview. 131 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 2: I was just trying to get some more information from 132 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 2: their perspective this whole case, as I was still learning more. 133 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 2: Jan again did most of the talking, but Ron, when 134 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 2: he spoke, he made it very clear that they support 135 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 2: her and they believe that she was pregnant, and that 136 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 2: they also support her pursuing court cases against these men, 137 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 2: that she was right to do it. 138 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: That's when the conversation took a turn and they brought 139 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: up the online community. 140 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 2: They both referred to the Clayton cult and they thought 141 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 2: that Clayton had been trying to organize people against them. 142 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 2: Jan said that this smear campaign against them. She said, 143 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 2: it's been horrific. Well, Ron said, it's made it difficult 144 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 2: for us to live our lives. And Jan said, the 145 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 2: thing is, our daughter got pregnant by the guy who 146 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 2: was a bachelor who first didn't believe she was pregnant, 147 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 2: and Jan said he had a really bad reputation was 148 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 2: using the situation to quote resurrect his image. They spoke 149 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 2: out against podcasters and content creators. Jan said they have 150 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 2: quote seized on this story to make one hour shows. 151 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,439 Speaker 1: Martha also pressed Jan on the pattern of behavior at 152 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: the core of this entire saga, the fact that Laura 153 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: had claimed pregnancies by three different men and had restraining 154 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: orders involving each of them. 155 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,439 Speaker 2: Jan said she didn't think it was quote that unusual 156 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 2: unquote for a woman in her early thirties to quote 157 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 2: have been pregnant, you know, with three different men, and 158 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 2: to have protective orders against them. She also said she 159 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 2: and her husband believe quote all the information unquote that 160 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:31,199 Speaker 2: their daughter and her attorneys have presented in the courts. 161 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: Since those initial conversations, Martha's been reporting on the story 162 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: for The Mercury News. In May twenty twenty six, she 163 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: sent a new list of questions to the Owens family. 164 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 2: I reached out to them via email letting them know 165 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 2: that I was working on a story about the role 166 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 2: that they've played in supporting Laura throughout her pregnancy claims 167 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 2: in court actions. I sent a list of questions asking 168 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 2: lor if she maintained you Pregnant by Mike, greg and Clayton. 169 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:05,839 Speaker 2: I asked about the plea bargain, whether Laura was considering it, 170 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 2: whether they were concerned about a prison sentence, and so on, and. 171 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:13,599 Speaker 1: A few days later Martha got a twenty three page response. 172 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 2: They sent back a response. It came from Jan's email 173 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 2: and it was signed by Ron and Jan. 174 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 1: This makes Martha one of the only people in the 175 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: media who's heard from Ron and Jan since the podcast began. 176 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: I want to walk you through what they said. 177 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 2: The response began, We want to express concern about the 178 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 2: framing of many of the questions being posed. A significant 179 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 2: number of them contain embedded messages, assumptions, and language that 180 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 2: appear to adopt narratives promoted online and in the podcast 181 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 2: Love Trapped, rather than approaching these matters from a neutral 182 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 2: or investigative standpoint. 183 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 1: One of Martha's questions directly addressed our show. She asked, 184 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: quote with the podcast Love Trapped, Ron and Jan have 185 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: come under scrutiny about the role they played in publicly 186 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: supporting Laura's pregnancy claims and court actions against Maruccini, Gillespie, 187 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: and Eckert. Do Ron and Jan want to comment on 188 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: the podcast. 189 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 2: They said Love Trapped never contacted us directly. We've lived 190 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 2: the story with Laura in real time, know the truth, 191 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 2: and have no interest in hearing a fictionalized account of 192 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 2: what happened. I Jan reached out to the production twice 193 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 2: in emails to producer Stephanie Young in August twenty twenty five, 194 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 2: offering to provide my account. I never received any response 195 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 2: to me. No response equals no interest in telling our 196 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 2: side of the story. 197 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: I need to interject here first, as you heard in 198 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: episode twelve, I have no record of communications from Jan 199 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: Black in my company or personal inbox. In fact, when 200 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 1: our team asked Laura if we could speak with her mother, Jan, 201 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: we got a reply back stating that because Jan is 202 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: listed as a witness in the criminal proceedings, she can't 203 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: speak on the record. We continued extending the offer via 204 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: email to Laura for her or her family to participate 205 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: in an interview, but they were unresponsive. Second, the phrasing 206 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: in Jan's response gave me deja vus. We know that 207 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:21,199 Speaker 1: Laura often uses the word equals in the same way 208 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: as this typed response from Jan, like in an email 209 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: Laura sent to Clayton on September fifth, twenty twenty three, 210 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: Laura said, quote, just confirming that you are refusing a 211 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: paternity test. No answer equals refusing it. This was the 212 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: rest of Jan's response to Martha about Love Trapped. 213 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 2: Based on what we've seen in episode transcripts, damaging specific 214 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 2: allegations about us and our family were made to an 215 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 2: international podcast audience without any attempt to get our input. 216 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 2: That is not journalism. 217 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 1: This actually sounds a lot like what Laura wrote and 218 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: her final email to me when I requested her comment 219 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 1: for the podcast. Laura wrote back saying, quote, what this 220 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: production has done to us knowingly, with the record in hand, 221 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: and with every opportunity to correct it is not journalism. 222 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:21,439 Speaker 1: Martha's next set of questions addressed Laura's relationship with Mike Marriuccini. 223 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 2: I asked, did Laura and Ron offer Mike the chance 224 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 2: of a radio career by having him record a podcast 225 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 2: a millennial dating? Did Ron tell Mike he could earn 226 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 2: up two hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year, and 227 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 2: their response was no, No offer was made, no contract existed, 228 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 2: no payment was ever discussed. That would have been an 229 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 2: incredibly high salary for someone new to the industry. An 230 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 2: industry veteran like Ron would never have made such an offer. 231 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: From there, Martha questioned Laura's ongoing pursuit of the domestic 232 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: violence restraining order against Mike, even though they lived seven 233 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: hundred miles apart and haven't had contact for years. 234 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 2: I asked, do you support her continuing to pursue this 235 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 2: and their response was, quote, most abusers deny being abusive 236 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,319 Speaker 2: in the court system. The dismissal of the DVRO extension 237 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 2: had nothing to do with the merits of the case 238 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 2: in Mike's public conduct before and since that dismissal independently 239 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:19,479 Speaker 2: warrants protection. 240 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: And as far as Laura's criminal case in Arizona goes, 241 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: it doesn't sound like they are willing to share any 242 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: information on. 243 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 2: Matters involving Laura's criminal case, any potential plea deal, the 244 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 2: possibility of a prison term. They referred those questions to 245 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 2: Laura's criminal defense attorney. 246 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: One of the biggest questions Martha threw with them was 247 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: about accountability. 248 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 2: I also asked, quote, what do Laura, Ron or Jan 249 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 2: say to people who have accused Laura of abusing the 250 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 2: court system taking up time and resources that could go 251 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 2: to victims and making it difficult for women to be 252 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 2: believed when they come forward with abuse allegations. They said, 253 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 2: it has been painful for her to pursue these cases, 254 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 2: and she has been very brave in doing so. It 255 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 2: would have been easy for her to remain quiet. The 256 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 2: suggestion that she has abused the court system ignores both 257 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 2: the facts and the actual outcomes of multiple legal proceedings 258 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 2: across nearly a decade. 259 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: And finally, Martha asked Ron and Jane question that I 260 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: think we've all been wanting an answer to. She asked, quote, 261 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: given everything lost financially over the past several years and 262 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: the emotional toll from the investigation, bankruptcy filings, and media scrutiny, 263 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: would Ron or jan have wanted to do anything differently? 264 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 2: They said, No, we believe our daughter. Then, we believe 265 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 2: her now We stood by her. Then, we stand by 266 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 2: her now we love her and it's been profoundly painful 267 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 2: to see her be the target of an effort to 268 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 2: destroy every aspect of her life. We continue to be 269 00:15:52,160 --> 00:16:01,479 Speaker 2: an aunt of her courage. 270 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: In the past few weeks, there have been some important 271 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: updates on the Owens family finances and bankruptcy filings. It 272 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: might seem technical, but the documents filed in the public 273 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 1: record give us an insight into their unique family dynamic. 274 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: And luckily, the recordings of these hearings are available on YouTube. 275 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: Let's start with Laura. As you know, in December twenty 276 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 1: twenty five, Laura Owens filed for bankruptcy. Five months later, 277 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: all parties agreed to dismiss the case. That was bad 278 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 1: news for her. It means the case is dismissed, not 279 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: her debts. Laura still owes her creditors, including roughly two 280 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars to Clayton Eckered. While the dismissal was 281 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: largely expected given the mutual agreement, nothing was official until 282 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: May fourteenth. That happened to be Laura's thirty sixth birthday, 283 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: and she spent part of it dialing into her bankruptcy 284 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: court hearing. 285 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 5: Okay, I'm going to ask for appearances in the Laura 286 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 5: Owns case. I'm going to start in the courtroom. 287 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 6: Please, good afternoon, your honor. Jennifer g i'ma on behalf 288 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 6: of the United States trustee. 289 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 8: Thank you. 290 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: Jennifer Giamo is the Department of Justice Attorney assigned to 291 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,919 Speaker 1: Laura's case. If her name sounds familiar, it's because you 292 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: might remember her from one of Laura's previous bankruptcy hearings 293 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: in February. 294 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 9: How old you? 295 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 6: I'm thirty five, so thirty five years you have never 296 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 6: had made any income on your own to your own bills. 297 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 1: The hearing continued, and the list of people in attendance 298 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: only grew from there. 299 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 5: Is there anybody else who wants to make an appearance. 300 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 3: Your honor? 301 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 10: This is Christian Leaders. I am Mitzleen's attorney in her 302 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 10: criminal matter in the Americopa County case. I'm not making 303 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,120 Speaker 10: an official appearance in this case. I don't think I'm 304 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 10: standing to do so. I'm not a bankruptcy attorney, and 305 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 10: I'm not representing her in that matter. I'm here only 306 00:17:59,080 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 10: for informational pose. 307 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 11: Who's old? 308 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 1: Christian Looters is the new criminal defense attorney that you've 309 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:08,679 Speaker 1: already heard about him? Calling into this bankruptcy hearing seems 310 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: like a sign of a proactive attorney. He's likely trying 311 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 1: to monitor all Laura's ongoing legal matters, even those falling 312 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: outside the scope of her criminal case. 313 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 5: I do understand that I also have several people that 314 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:24,439 Speaker 5: are listening in and not making an appearance today, and 315 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 5: I understand that's because this debtor has been in. 316 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 2: The news and also on social media. 317 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: From there, all parties, including Laura, officially agreed to dismiss 318 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: her bankruptcy filing. The whole hearing lasted about six minutes 319 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,400 Speaker 1: and it ended with the judge signing the dismissal order. 320 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 5: I find good cause to approve the emotion and the 321 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 5: agreements that are set forth inner they're in that would 322 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 5: bar the refiling of a bankruptcy case for one year, 323 00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 5: and I will sign the order thank you for for. 324 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: The next year. She can't file for bankruptcy again, and 325 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: the people who Laura owes money to, including Clayton, can 326 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: try to collect from her, but as we heard in 327 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: episode twelve, it's hard to collect from someone who appears 328 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:20,640 Speaker 1: to have no personal assets. As for Ron and Jan's bankruptcy, 329 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: it's not quite as simple. There's a lot of technical jargon, 330 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:28,120 Speaker 1: but it's worth explaining because it shows a pattern last 331 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:33,680 Speaker 1: minute appeals, hail Mary, attempts, escalating medical crises, and seemingly 332 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 1: small clerical errors that are used to buy time. Laura's parents, 333 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,439 Speaker 1: Ron Owens and Jan Black filed for bankruptcy in August 334 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. Because they failed to comply with the court. 335 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: That filing was dismissed this past January. Their debts, however, 336 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:54,199 Speaker 1: remained fully intact. Martha Ross, the San Francisco journalist you 337 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: heard from earlier, asked Ron and Jan about their finances. 338 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,479 Speaker 1: Their answer came in that twenty three page response she 339 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:02,360 Speaker 1: received in early May. 340 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 2: I actually didn't specifically ask about the bankruptcy because that 341 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 2: seemed like it was in the past. But I did 342 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 2: ask about the foreclosure on their home in the upcoming auction. 343 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 1: As you might remember, Ron and Jan's home in Scottsdale 344 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,159 Speaker 1: was set to be sold in a foreclosure auction. On 345 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: May twenty sixth, twenty twenty six, Martha asked them about 346 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: the upcoming foreclosure sale. 347 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 2: Their response was we're taking steps to avoid it, and 348 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 2: that's all they said. 349 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: On Friday night, May twenty second, four days before the auction, 350 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: I was out to dinner celebrating my best friend's birthday 351 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: when you guessed it, my phone started blowing up. The 352 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: first text came in at seven to ten pm from 353 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:50,199 Speaker 1: Schnitze Ninja. It said Ron and Jan filed for bankruptcy 354 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:55,640 Speaker 1: again getting details now, I'm admittedly not a bankruptcy expert, 355 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 1: so once again I turned to Tiffany Robertson, better known 356 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: in the community as Big tiff Dog. Tiffany recently retired 357 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: from a career in the financial services industry and has 358 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: been part of the online community tracking the Laura Owen's case. 359 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:15,400 Speaker 12: Ron and Jant filed a last minute Chapter eleven petition 360 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 12: in the Arizona Bankruptcy Court on May twenty second, at 361 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 12: like three point thirty pm. 362 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 1: Their first filing was a Chapter thirteen, which is essentially 363 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: a payment plan for people trying to catch up on 364 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 1: bills or save their house from foreclosure. But this new 365 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:36,399 Speaker 1: filing is a Chapter eleven that's a more complex process 366 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 1: built for businesses and high debt individuals. 367 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 12: It's extremely complex, like it definitely shouldn't be done without 368 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:45,479 Speaker 12: an attorney. 369 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,919 Speaker 1: But in this filing, Ron and Jann are representing themselves 370 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: and a familiar name has been added to the docket. 371 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 12: We saw that Jennifer Jammo almost immediately we filed an 372 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 12: appearance in this case. 373 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,919 Speaker 1: Jennifer Giamo, the Department of Justice attorney previously involved in 374 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 1: Laura's bankruptcy is also assigned to this filing. This could 375 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: be a coincidence, but one thing is for sure. Miss 376 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: Giamo is already quite familiar with the nuances of the 377 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: Owens family finances, and based on what I've heard about 378 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: Jennifer Giamo, She's not going to let inconsistency slide. I 379 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: also couldn't help but wonder if Ron and Jan filed 380 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: for bankruptcy again to try and delay the auction of 381 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 1: their home. Luckily, the answer came just days later. On 382 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:38,199 Speaker 1: June fourth, twenty twenty six, Ron and Jan requested an 383 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: extension to file their bankruptcy paperwork. Here's an excerpt from 384 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: that filing read by a voice actor. 385 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 3: On May twenty second, twenty twenty six, debtors filed a 386 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 3: voluntary Chapter eleven petition on an emergency basis without counsel, 387 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,640 Speaker 3: to preserve the automatic stay and prevent the non judicial 388 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 3: foreclosure sale of their primary residence, which was scheduled to 389 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 3: proceed on May twenty six, twenty twenty six. The petition 390 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,120 Speaker 3: was filed in good faith and for no purpose other 391 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:08,880 Speaker 3: than the protection of debtor's home. 392 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 1: Ron and Jan were clearly worried that this new bankruptcy 393 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 1: filing wouldn't protect their home, leaving it vulnerable to being 394 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: put back on the auction block. This time, they have 395 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: a few medical explanations for why the house shouldn't be sold. 396 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 3: The property has been specifically adapted to accommodate the medical 397 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 3: needs of Ronald Owens, who is eighty years old, has 398 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 3: lived with Parkinson's disease for twenty five years, has survived 399 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 3: four separate bouts of cancer, carries a cancer diagnosis, and 400 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 3: has serious heart disease. Elizabeth Ann Naylor, aged sixty nine, 401 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 3: is his primary caregiver and provides daily medical care, medication management, 402 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 3: and physical assistance. 403 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:57,199 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Naylor is Jan Black's legal name. That's a story 404 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: for another day. 405 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 3: Their adult daughter, who has autism, also resides at the property. 406 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 3: Displacement from this property would cause severe disruption to a 407 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 3: household organized entirely around the medical needs of an elderly, 408 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 3: seriously ill resident. 409 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: Because of their refiling, the Owens family home was protected 410 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: from foreclosure action at least until June twenty first, twenty 411 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,919 Speaker 1: twenty six, ron and Jan requested an emergency bankruptcy hearing 412 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: to address their main concern being able to protect their 413 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: assets specifically their home. That hearing happened on June eighteenth, 414 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 1: just a week before this episode's release, and I don't 415 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: think it went the way Ron and Jan were hoping 416 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: it would. 417 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 9: Mss Naylor and mister Owens, this is your emergency motion 418 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 9: to extend the automatic stay in this case. It's your 419 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 9: burden to prove that this case was filed in good faith, 420 00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,880 Speaker 9: and you have to have clear and convincing EVI. 421 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: The primary thing the court is looking for is what 422 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:08,400 Speaker 1: circumstances changed between when Ron and Jan's first bankruptcy case 423 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 1: was dismissed and the filing of their new case. It 424 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: seemed to the judge that their income had remained the same. 425 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,199 Speaker 1: The judge had questions for Ron and Jan about what 426 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: brought them back into bankruptcy court. Jan starts to answer, 427 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 1: and the judge interrupts. 428 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 11: Her, Well, the prior thirteen was dismissed not because we 429 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 11: abandoned it, but because our attorney didn't act when I 430 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 11: asked him to in writing, Well. 431 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 9: Let me just stop and interrupt you there, because I've 432 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 9: reviewed the papers filed in the prior case, and the 433 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 9: reason your case was dismissed is because you did not 434 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 9: turn over to the trustee tax returns and because your 435 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:53,199 Speaker 9: plan payments were delinquent. So whatever may have happened with 436 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 9: your attorney, you know that I don't know what happened there, 437 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 9: but filing your taxes and turning over for your returns 438 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 9: and paying your plan payments are all within your control. 439 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 4: Correct. 440 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: Jan tried to explain to the judge why their tax 441 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: returns weren't filed and why their payments were delinquent. 442 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 11: As far as the plan payment is concerned, we had 443 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 11: some major unexpected expenses that could not be put off. 444 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 11: We had major storm damage and clean up that had 445 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,439 Speaker 11: been required, and we had septic tank issues, and we 446 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,919 Speaker 11: had car repair issues, and I the money had to 447 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 11: go into those things. From you know, from an emergency 448 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 11: crisis standpoint, going forward, we would anticipate that the amount 449 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 11: of income that we have that is guaranteed, the twenty 450 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 11: one thousand dollars a month income that is guaranteed under 451 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,399 Speaker 11: our Social Security and pension benefits, would be enough to 452 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 11: get us to give us the restar that we need here. 453 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: Then the judge asked to hear from Jennifer Giamo, the 454 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: attorney representing the US Trustee. Miss Giomo was audibly frustrated 455 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 1: with Ron and Jan's excuses. 456 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 6: I would argue that you have sufficient grounds before you 457 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 6: right now to deny this motion, because, as you're under 458 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 6: pointed out, there is no clear and convincing evidence. There's 459 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,199 Speaker 6: no evidence at all in this case that there's been 460 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 6: a change of circumstances. And I think that by allowing 461 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 6: this case to continue, and giving these debtors an opportunity, 462 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,159 Speaker 6: even a short one, to try to file new schedules 463 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 6: that might have again more misrepresentations, all we're doing is 464 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 6: postponing the inevitable and allowing these debtors to continue abusing 465 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 6: the system. 466 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 2: And that's what this is. Thank you, eron. 467 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 1: But before the hearing ended, Ron and Jen were asked 468 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: about the GoFundMe. This was Jan's response to. 469 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 11: The judge, If your honor, I imagine this has to 470 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 11: do with the snaredham which has been going on against 471 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 11: our family for the last three years. A GoFundMe was 472 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 11: set up for on behalf of my husband by friends, 473 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,120 Speaker 11: and that was set up in December of twenty twenty four, 474 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 11: and it was set up at that time in an 475 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:27,120 Speaker 11: effort to try to help us prevent the bankruptcy situation. 476 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: Jennifer Giamo jumped in. 477 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 6: Jarnor, may I if I can just intervene here real quick. 478 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:35,639 Speaker 6: I think what the issue is is that there was 479 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 6: a go fundme set up in the name of mister 480 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 6: and missus Owens, and I think there was over one 481 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 6: hundred thousand dollars generated and that was never disclosed in 482 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 6: the chapter thirteen or in this case. 483 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 9: That's what the issue is. 484 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 1: I hate having to say this, but once again, the 485 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: hearing was continued and no decision was made, but the 486 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: judge wants to see Ron and jan again very soon. 487 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 9: July first, at two pm we'll resume this hearing. The 488 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 9: court will impose a temporary stay. This hearing is concluded. 489 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 8: Thank you. 490 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: I haven't heard from Laura Owens in the past few weeks. 491 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: It's been quiet, but that's not true for everyone. I 492 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 1: recently checked in with some of the content creators who've 493 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: been following this story from the beginning, and it turns 494 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: out many of them are experiencing something frustrating. Knowing that 495 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 1: listeners were eager for more context and different perspectives reality, 496 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 1: Steve decided to release a video of himself reading the 497 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 1: emails Laura had sent him. 498 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 4: My emails with her were only from September of twenty 499 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 4: twenty three through January of twenty twenty four, and I 500 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 4: read my responses to all of them, and I was like, 501 00:29:57,840 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 4: let me just do a YouTube video and put it 502 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 4: out and how people watch it. 503 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 1: It took him over two hours to read through the 504 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: emails and share his commentary, which he then uploaded to YouTube. 505 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 4: And about three days after I did it, I got 506 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 4: an email from YouTube Legal Support that said I've had 507 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 4: a privacy complaint filed against me. Then it talked about 508 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 4: videos are not allowed to have any visuals of anybody 509 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 4: or dosing any of that, and I was just like, 510 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 4: outside of Laura's email address, that was the only thing 511 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 4: I didn't blur out. 512 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: Two days later, he received an email from YouTube stating 513 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: that his video had been deactivated. With the help of 514 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: the online community, he meticulously reviewed the footage to identify 515 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: what might have triggered the privacy complaint. 516 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 4: It reposted the video like three weeks later, with everything 517 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 4: blurred out that needed to be blurred out. I got 518 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 4: the same exact formal email that I got after the 519 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 4: first video went up five seventeen PM on May twenty 520 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 4: is when I got the second complaint filed against me. 521 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 4: It was generic and the time stamps were exactly the 522 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 4: same as almost like they cut and pasted their first email. 523 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 4: Nothing was different. 524 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: Reality, Steve wasn't the only creator hit with the privacy 525 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: complaint on May twentieth. Schnitzel Ninja received one as well. 526 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 13: So after the hearing that was on May twentieth, a 527 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 13: complex case management conference, sometime later that day, I received 528 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 13: an email that said a privacy complaint had been made 529 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 13: against my entire YouTube channel and they give you forty 530 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 13: eight hours to edit or remove the information that was 531 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 13: complained about. 532 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: Schnitzel Ninja was no stranger to YouTube's flagging system. In 533 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: late twenty twenty three, six of her videos featuring court 534 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: recordings were hit with privacy complaints. However, after she made 535 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: the necessary adjustments, YouTube took no further action. 536 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 13: In my research and from prior report worts that have 537 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 13: been made, you have to be the subject of the 538 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 13: content in order to file the complaint a privacy complaint. Specifically, 539 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 13: in order to be a privacy complaint and to report 540 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 13: the whole channel, that person would have to be in 541 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 13: all of the content on the channel, and so the 542 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 13: only person who is likely in all of the content 543 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 13: on my channel is Laura herself. 544 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 1: Schnitzel Ninja's content has also faced copyright challenges. A compilation 545 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: video she uploaded of Laura falling during horse competitions received 546 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 1: two copyright removal requests. 547 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 13: For those it gives contact information and it also gives 548 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 13: you the complaint that was made. So the first one 549 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 13: had Laura's email address and her complaint. 550 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: And the second one had her mom's name on it, 551 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: but Laura's email address was listed under contact info. As 552 00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: I mentioned, when it comes to privacy complaints, YouTube rarely 553 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 1: specifies exactly what triggers a violation. They are frustratingly unclear. 554 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: Even after Reality Steve edited his video to address potential issues, 555 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,680 Speaker 1: he was still hit with the second complaint. 556 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 4: What did I violate saying Laura Owen's name than every 557 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 4: single video that's been made on Laura Owens for the 558 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 4: last three years would be getting taken down like this 559 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 4: is what I don't understand. 560 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: It was even more frustrating for Schnitzel Ninja, who didn't 561 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 1: just get a video flag, but had her whole channel 562 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: reported because the complaint is so broad Schnitzel Ninja is 563 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 1: having a hard time trying to pinpoint what the actual 564 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:39,239 Speaker 1: issue is. 565 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 13: I do want to comply with the rules is I 566 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 13: think everyone should, But when it's a blanket complaint like this, 567 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 13: it doesn't leave the content creator any room to try 568 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 13: to make a change other than which is what I'm 569 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 13: assuming she would prefer, is that the channel just all 570 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 13: of the content be gone and the channel not exists anymore. 571 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 13: I understand that she may not like what's on there, 572 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 13: but the majority of my channel is covering public information, 573 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:13,359 Speaker 13: court videos, court documents, police body cam, police calls, all 574 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,759 Speaker 13: things that have been properly obtained through all of the 575 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 13: legal channels. And therefore, as a content creator, how do 576 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 13: you even go about remedying this complaint. 577 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: Both Schnitzel Ninja and Reality Steve submitted responses to dispute 578 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: the privacy complaints from May twentieth. 579 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,759 Speaker 4: This time I responded, and I just made it clear like, 580 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,759 Speaker 4: this is a woman involved in a public case in Arizona. 581 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 4: Here's the case number. I'm allowed to talk about a 582 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:47,799 Speaker 4: public case. And these were her emails to me, And 583 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 4: two days later got a response saying, your video has 584 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:53,919 Speaker 4: been taken down again, and I'm like, Okay, well, I'm 585 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 4: just giving up at this point. And I can't prove 586 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,720 Speaker 4: this is from Laura, but I assume it is because 587 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 4: we know she listens to and watches everything reality. 588 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:07,360 Speaker 1: Steve was obviously annoyed about his video getting pulled, but 589 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: that wasn't even the biggest pain point for him. 590 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,319 Speaker 4: It's just frustrating more than anything, because this was her 591 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,440 Speaker 4: telling me her side of the story, and kind of 592 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 4: what I said in my video was like, the one 593 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,840 Speaker 4: thing that Laura has complained about is everybody just believes 594 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,480 Speaker 4: what's on the Love Trap podcast and it is biased 595 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 4: and nobody is hearing her side. Well, this was literally 596 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 4: her side of the story from September of twenty twenty three, 597 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 4: when this first started, till January of twenty twenty four. 598 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,319 Speaker 4: Her emails were literally saying, no, you're wrong, Steve. And 599 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,799 Speaker 4: this is why now, I didn't think any of her 600 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 4: reasons were legitimate, and I didn't believe them, and I 601 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 4: think most people that read those emails and listened to 602 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 4: me read those emails agreed it's still a bunch of crap, 603 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 4: but she was at least getting her side out there. 604 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 4: And now that we're letting her side out there by 605 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 4: reading her emails. I'm invading privacy. It makes no sense whatsoever. 606 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 1: The content creators have been through this before with Laura, 607 00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,840 Speaker 1: but it's different this time because now Laura is a 608 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 1: defendant in a high profile criminal case. Even still, she's 609 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 1: trying the same tactic, trying to silence the people who 610 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:10,800 Speaker 1: talk about her alleged crimes. 611 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 13: I feel like she is back to in some ways, 612 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 13: this Laura that we saw in twenty twenty three, which 613 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,439 Speaker 13: is this Laura who is still proclaiming her innocence, who 614 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,960 Speaker 13: is still trying to get anything negative removed about her 615 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 13: from the Internet. We know that she did a lot 616 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,839 Speaker 13: of complaints against content that was online. I think she 617 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 13: really is still trying to control the narrative so that 618 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 13: there's less negative stuff about her out there. 619 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,880 Speaker 1: Mike Marraccini has also been trying to wipe negative content 620 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,879 Speaker 1: about himself from the internet. You probably remember Laura's ted 621 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:56,719 Speaker 1: X talk about their Iceland trip. 622 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,480 Speaker 14: The first thing he did once we landed an Eye London, 623 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:02,520 Speaker 14: got to the hotel, was asked me to pick a number, 624 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:06,480 Speaker 14: not knowing why I picked forty. He said that was 625 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,879 Speaker 14: how many times he was going to slot me. He did, 626 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:10,920 Speaker 14: and then he choked me. 627 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,480 Speaker 1: A lot of people have reached out to TEDx trying 628 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 1: to get this video taken down, and even caught the 629 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 1: attention of twelve News, a local Phoenix TV station, who 630 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 1: ran a segment on it. In June twenty twenty six. 631 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,400 Speaker 8: Valley resident and former star of the Bachelor is upset 632 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 8: over a ted talk that remains online. The video shows 633 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 8: Laura Owens give life advice to others, despite Owens being 634 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:43,280 Speaker 8: under multiple criminal indictments for allegedly lying in a paternity scandal. 635 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,760 Speaker 1: Twelve News investigative reporter Sean Rice reached out to TEDEX 636 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:48,240 Speaker 1: for comment. 637 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 15: I wanted to ask them why this video is still 638 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,720 Speaker 15: up given the accusations and the findings in court against Owens. 639 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,400 Speaker 15: We have not heard back at all, given them multiple 640 00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 15: weeks to respond. We do know they're listening to this 641 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:03,280 Speaker 15: criticism because the comment section on Laura Owens's x posting 642 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 15: on YouTube, those comments have been turned off. 643 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 1: When we started researching this case, our team also reached 644 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 1: out to ted X to get a statement. We never 645 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: received a response. After seeing this local news story, I 646 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,840 Speaker 1: figured I would try again. I wrote back to TEDx 647 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,880 Speaker 1: giving them a little background on the developments in this case. 648 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,799 Speaker 1: I said quote, I realized that an indictment is not 649 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,839 Speaker 1: a conviction, but I know that numerous people, including Mike 650 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,600 Speaker 1: Marriccini himself, have asked for this video to be removed 651 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:42,360 Speaker 1: from the techx YouTube page. I am requesting a response 652 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 1: to the following question, if Laura Owens is convicted of 653 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,759 Speaker 1: felonies in the state of Arizona, does TEDx plan to 654 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:53,880 Speaker 1: remove her video from their YouTube channel. To my surprise, 655 00:38:54,600 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 1: this time I got a response. It was three simple words, yes, 656 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 1: we do so. According to TEDx, if Laura is convicted 657 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,400 Speaker 1: of felonies in the state of Arizona, we should expect 658 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:16,279 Speaker 1: to see that video removed from YouTube. Those are all 659 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,920 Speaker 1: the updates I have for now. On Monday, June twenty ninth, 660 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,080 Speaker 1: we'll all be watching to see if Laura takes the 661 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,360 Speaker 1: plea deal. If there's news, I'll be back with a 662 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:31,359 Speaker 1: short update, and as the criminal proceedings continue, we'll bring 663 00:39:31,400 --> 00:40:14,480 Speaker 1: you more episodes of Love Trapped. T Thank you so 664 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,680 Speaker 1: much for listening. Please be sure to follow Love Trapped 665 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:22,600 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, Spotify, or wherever you 666 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,960 Speaker 1: get your podcasts and please leave us a review. A 667 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,360 Speaker 1: five star rating helps others find this show. We're grateful 668 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,480 Speaker 1: for your support. If you would like to reach out 669 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,280 Speaker 1: to the Love Trapped team or have a similar story 670 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:39,520 Speaker 1: to share, email us at Love Trapped Pod at gmail 671 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:44,400 Speaker 1: dot com. That's Love Trapped Pod at gmail dot com. 672 00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,160 Speaker 1: Love Trapped is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division 673 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:52,160 Speaker 1: of Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. This 674 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,799 Speaker 1: show was executive produced by Nancy Glass, Andrea Gunning and 675 00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:00,279 Speaker 1: Ben Fetterman, written, produced and hosted by me Stephanie Young. 676 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 1: Our story editor is Monique la Board. Additional production support 677 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:10,400 Speaker 1: from Todd Gans. Our production manager is Kristin Melchiri. For 678 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:15,160 Speaker 1: iHeart Podcasts, Ali Perry was our executive producer. Audio editing 679 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:19,080 Speaker 1: and mastering by Anna McLain. Additional editing support by Tanner 680 00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:23,160 Speaker 1: Robbins and Matt Delvecchio. Thank you to our voice actors 681 00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:28,360 Speaker 1: Monique la Board and Tanner Robbins. This podcast was developed 682 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:32,560 Speaker 1: in collaboration with Danny Passman and leb Abramoff at Crybaby Media. 683 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 1: The Love Trapped theme is composed by Oliver Bains. Music 684 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:41,000 Speaker 1: library provided by Mybe Music, a special thanks to Carrie Lieberman, 685 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:46,000 Speaker 1: Will Pearson, Jessica Crincheck, Ali Canter, and the entire iHeart 686 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:49,759 Speaker 1: podcast team. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the 687 00:41:49,800 --> 00:42:02,880 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.