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Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff to Blow your mind from housetop dot com.

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Speaker 1: You find Reich to be a heavy set, ruddy brown

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Speaker 1: haired man of fifty wearing a long white coat and

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Speaker 1: sitting at a huge desk between periods of training students

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Speaker 1: in his theories and putting patients into orgone accumulators. He

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Speaker 1: will tell you how unutterably rotten is the underlying character

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Speaker 1: of the average individual walking the streets, and how in

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Speaker 1: the room across the hall where he works on his

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Speaker 1: patients he peels back their presentable surfaces to expose the

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Speaker 1: corrupted second layer of human personality. For the masses of

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Speaker 1: the people, says Reich, are endemically neurotic and sex really sick.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff to blow your mind. I'm Christian Saga,

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Speaker 1: and I'm Joe McCormick, and our regular host Robert Lamb

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Speaker 1: is not with us today. He is out of the office,

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Speaker 1: so Christian and I are flying solo. But I want

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Speaker 1: to identify the source of that quote I just read.

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Speaker 1: It was a sort of a brief character sketch given

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Speaker 1: by one Mildred D. Brady, and it was written in

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Speaker 1: an article called the Strange Case of Wilhelm Reich published

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Speaker 1: in the New Republic on May nineteen. Wow, and so

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Speaker 1: as you can guess, we're gonna be talking about right today,

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna be talking about argone, organ accumulators, cloudbusters,

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Speaker 1: the whole shebang. Now, Christian, this is a subject that

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Speaker 1: was pretty new to me. I had no idea about

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Speaker 1: this whole strange subculture of what might you call it

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Speaker 1: psychoanalytics sexual alternative physics. Yeah, like that, that's a good application. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what's what's the acronym for that? I don't know. You

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Speaker 1: guys in the audience figure that one out. It's O

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Speaker 1: R G O N E. Uh. Yeah. But so if

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Speaker 1: you are as unfamiliar as I was coming in, maybe

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Speaker 1: we can get a little bit acquainted with the subject.

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Speaker 1: From christian story of his personal experience with the the

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Speaker 1: Oregon energy. That makes it sound like I like I

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Speaker 1: had a little bit more of a transcendental experience than

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Speaker 1: I did. No, I mean that you went to the

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Speaker 1: estate in Maine of Dr. Wilhelm Reich, didn't you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this would have been ten twelve years ago. Uh, My

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Speaker 1: wife and I went on vacation to range Ly, Maine,

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Speaker 1: and we rented a cabin on the oregon On property

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Speaker 1: that his estate still owns. You said, Organon. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: the name of the facility. Um So Oregonon, I guess

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Speaker 1: is technically the entire plot of land. I think it's

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Speaker 1: a hundred and seventy five acres. This a state that

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Speaker 1: he left up in Maine. Huge. It's gorgeous. If you've

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Speaker 1: ever been up to range Le, Maine, it's very lots

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Speaker 1: of forest right on a lake. Um first morning we

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Speaker 1: were there, we saw a deer right outside our cabin,

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Speaker 1: like that kind of thing. So Stephen King kind of

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Speaker 1: vibe has spear eating powers from space. Maybe maybe that's

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Speaker 1: where Reich got his inspiration from. But you know, honestly,

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Speaker 1: it's just like a very sort of down to earth

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Speaker 1: nature experience. And um we went there because I had

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Speaker 1: read about Reich and read about his theories and read

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Speaker 1: about oregon accumulators and cloud busters and had seen I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you ever seen Kate Bush's video for

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Speaker 1: cloud Busting. But wait, what you talking about? You don't

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Speaker 1: know about that? The musician Kate Bush. Kate Bush has

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Speaker 1: a song called cloud Busting from the album Hounds of Love,

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Speaker 1: and uh it is. It's a great song. And the

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Speaker 1: video is shot by Terry Gilliam and stars her as

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Speaker 1: Willem Reich's son and Donald Sutherland as Willem Reich. And

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Speaker 1: it is essentially like a abs racked version of the

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Speaker 1: story of of Reich building a cloud Buster and then

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Speaker 1: eventually being imprisoned and dying in prison. I am extremely

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Speaker 1: tempted to stop recording right now and go watch. I

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Speaker 1: thought you knew about this, I would have mentioned it beforehand. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's one of the like I think, hallmark pop culture

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Speaker 1: moments for Reich. Now, if you're already lost in all

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Speaker 1: of the bizarre references to things like cloud Busters and

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Speaker 1: Oregon Energy, don't worry. We're gonna get We're gonna explain

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Speaker 1: it and explain what the deal is with it. But

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Speaker 1: but Christian, please continue. So, so you went to Oregon

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Speaker 1: on this big beautiful estate in Maine, and uh, it's

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Speaker 1: like a countryside of state. There's a lot of nature,

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Speaker 1: but there's very rural countryside is like it's in the

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Speaker 1: middle of nowhere. I mean Rangely itself is a small town.

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Speaker 1: And then I'd say organ On is like maybe five

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Speaker 1: miles outside of range Lely, and uh, but there are

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Speaker 1: buildings there too, right. Uh, yeah, well Oregon on the

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Speaker 1: the main I guess observatory slash home is a pretty

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Speaker 1: big house slash mansion thing. Now now it's a museum.

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Speaker 1: There's also a bookstore on the property. And then when

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Speaker 1: I was there, there were three cabins that you could

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Speaker 1: stay in. Uh huh. And so you said observatory. Now,

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Speaker 1: I think most people would assume when you say there's

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Speaker 1: an observatory out in the country somewhere, they're thinking an

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Speaker 1: astronomy observatory where you look at the stars and you

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Speaker 1: can look at the planets and the moon and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that. But that's not the kind of observatory we're

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Speaker 1: talking about, is it. No, Um, this is an Oregon.

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Speaker 1: It's been a while. I don't remember there being any

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Speaker 1: telescopes there, but it's it's a yeah. Ostensibly he was

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Speaker 1: studying the effects of Oregon while he lived there, and

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Speaker 1: his students. I guess I'm putting quotations around students, um,

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Speaker 1: because I don't know that they're necessarily getting any like

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Speaker 1: accredited degrees from studying under him, but they you know,

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Speaker 1: they worked on these devices and studying Oregon and studying

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Speaker 1: the effects of releasing orgasmic potential. I don't one of

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Speaker 1: the things I don't want to do in this episode

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Speaker 1: is go into a lot of speculation about the sexual

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Speaker 1: antics that probably happened at orgon On. Although there has

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Speaker 1: been plenty of speculation about Reich and his followers and

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Speaker 1: his sex life. I think it's kind of a I've

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Speaker 1: never seen the TV show Masters of Sex, but I

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Speaker 1: imagine that it's kind of like that sort of world

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Speaker 1: right where you like, he and his followers saw themselves

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Speaker 1: on the brink of like blowing up a sexual revolution. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and they were like maybe twenty or thirty years early,

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Speaker 1: blurring the lines between Masters of Sex and Masters of

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Speaker 1: the Universe. Well, he did claim that he shot down

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Speaker 1: UFOs with a cloudbuster. Well, and also Masters of the

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Speaker 1: Universe in the sense that he was proposing this substance

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Speaker 1: orgone as a kind of cosmic energy or or universe

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Speaker 1: permeating force, a kind of life force that explained all

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Speaker 1: of these strange things about So it's sort of one

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Speaker 1: of those uh answers to every question, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean? Yeah, absolutely, I saw in one of the

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Speaker 1: pieces that we read for this, I saw somebody compare

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Speaker 1: it to George Lucas's vision of the force in Star Wars,

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Speaker 1: and it's a lot like that if the force was

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Speaker 1: released by having sex or masturbating. It's more like the

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Speaker 1: force in the Star Wars prequels because it's based on

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Speaker 1: tiny animals in your body. Yeah, there, there is. He

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Speaker 1: sort of had his own version of Middy Glorian's Yeah. Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: let's back up for a second here for the listeners,

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Speaker 1: because we just dropped him in the deep end. Uh,

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Speaker 1: let's explain who Willem Reich is very briefly, and then

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Speaker 1: what we're gonna do is we're gonna get into his

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Speaker 1: scientific theories over the years before he died. Um. What

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Speaker 1: I do want to establish upfront is that we're gonna

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Speaker 1: be very brief about the history stuff. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: that could be gone into with it in terms of

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Speaker 1: conspiracy theories or like I was mentioned earlier, the sort

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Speaker 1: of like rumors and of sexual antics, uh, and impropriety,

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Speaker 1: and and also about Reich in general just kind of

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Speaker 1: not being so great of a person in real life,

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Speaker 1: or at least a very unprofessional psychoanalysts. Yeah, and I've

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Speaker 1: read plenty of accounts of that. But for the purposes

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Speaker 1: of this show. I think we should stay focused for

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Speaker 1: one episode just on who he was and and the

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Speaker 1: and the quote unquote science of of Oregon and accumulators

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Speaker 1: in cloud busting. Okay, alright, So Reich is born in Austria,

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Speaker 1: Hungry in eight but what is now known as Ukraine. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And there's lots of stories about him having a sexually

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Speaker 1: complex childhood. I don't want to go a ton into it,

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Speaker 1: and there's not a lot of ways to confirm any

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Speaker 1: of this, but there's speculation by his daughter, of all people,

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Speaker 1: that he was abused by his parents sexually and his

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Speaker 1: mother committed suicide, didn't she that's correct? Yeah? Um. He

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Speaker 1: grows up uh and becomes an associate and student of

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Speaker 1: Sigmund for Fred and studies and works with Freud in

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Speaker 1: Vienna at the Psychoanalytic poly Clinic. Yeah. And the interesting

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Speaker 1: thing here is that Reich began his career. Whatever you

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Speaker 1: might think of Freud and psychoanalysis today, he began his

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Speaker 1: career in a circle of psychoanalysis that was at least respected.

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Speaker 1: At the time, this was considered a legitimate frontier of

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Speaker 1: science and human inquiry. Yeah, that was my impression, and

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Speaker 1: it was sort of honorable to be working with Freud

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Speaker 1: at the time, I think, at least within the discipline. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so he The thing I wanted to emphasize is that

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Speaker 1: he wasn't always regarded as a kuk by everybody. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And and also I don't know necessarily that there are

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Speaker 1: some people today that regard him as kuk. Oh. Certainly, well,

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Speaker 1: he obviously has his followers, but I mean, um, he

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Speaker 1: was a respected member of the psychoanalytic community, and he

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Speaker 1: held leadership positions in like professional organizations. Yeah. So he

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Speaker 1: was a guy who worked in psychoanalysis, was educated by

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Speaker 1: the who were the people who were considered the top

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Speaker 1: minds in the field at the time. My understanding is

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Speaker 1: he had a medical degree. Yeah. Yeah. Um. So I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna fast forward a little bit here because while he's

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Speaker 1: in Europe, there's a lot of drama, but a lot

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Speaker 1: of a lot of conflicts with political parties. He ran

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Speaker 1: into trouble with the Nazis, he ran into trouble with

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Speaker 1: the Communists, he ran into trouble with Freud. They had

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Speaker 1: a falling out, yes, and then eventually so he moved

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Speaker 1: from country to country in Europe for a while, always

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Speaker 1: kind of like getting I wouldn't say getting run out,

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Speaker 1: I don't necessarily the case, but the things maybe not

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Speaker 1: going his way in a certain country. And then he

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Speaker 1: moved to another one. Uh. And eventually he ended up

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Speaker 1: moving from Europe to the United States. And what year

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Speaker 1: was in nineteen thirty nine, uh, and he taught at

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Speaker 1: the New School for Social Social Research in New York City.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how long that lasted for, but he did,

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Speaker 1: you know, come to the United States and and work

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Speaker 1: as a teacher I think in psycho analysis. Um. But

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Speaker 1: eventually he goes up to Maine to range Lye and

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Speaker 1: he purchases the estate. The organ on estate builds his

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Speaker 1: institute his observatory there and that's where he's buried. While

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Speaker 1: he held that land, and he there's also more drama

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Speaker 1: regarding like his family and wives and children and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that I don't want to get into. Um. But

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Speaker 1: there was significant problems with him in the U S.

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Speaker 1: Poot and Drug administration. Yeah, he got into trouble with

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Speaker 1: the U. S. Government. And some of this would be

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Speaker 1: following that article I read at the beginning, or at

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Speaker 1: least the quote from at the beginning by Mildred Brady,

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Speaker 1: And in that article, Brady addresses some of Reich's theories

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Speaker 1: and his following and express his concern that Reich has

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Speaker 1: not been sufficiently condemned by the psychoanalytic community that he

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Speaker 1: used to be a part of once he started putting

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Speaker 1: out these strange theories that which we're gonna get to

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Speaker 1: in a minute, theories like or Gone and the the

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Speaker 1: orgasm theory and cloud busting, and she had concerned that

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Speaker 1: he was sort of selling these services and theories to

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Speaker 1: the lay public who didn't know any better, and the

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Speaker 1: scientific community or the psychoanalytic community, whether you consider that

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Speaker 1: scientific or not, was not doing a sufficient job of

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Speaker 1: letting the public know that these theories were not an

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Speaker 1: accepted part of current science. Right. So the FDA gets involved,

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Speaker 1: partly because of the I guess spotlight that she puts

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Speaker 1: on him. Uh and he is eventually tried in contempt

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Speaker 1: of court for violating the Food and Drug Act. And

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Speaker 1: the story goes like this that one of his assaults

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Speaker 1: associates moved an Oregon accumulator, and we'll explain to you

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Speaker 1: what that is. I want to get through the history

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Speaker 1: of this guy first before we dive into the weirdness.

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Speaker 1: Um moved an Oregon accumulator across state lines, and that

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Speaker 1: violated the Food and Drug Act. Like if a cargo

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Speaker 1: container full of barrels of whiskey and ahibition or or yeah,

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Speaker 1: or rice in or something, right, like, it's like the

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Speaker 1: really dangerous bad thing. So they arrest Reich and sentenced

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Speaker 1: him to two years in prison. He spends his time

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Speaker 1: in prison, and just before his sentences up, he dies, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: in nine seven. And so this is where a lot

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Speaker 1: of the I can see why a lot of conspiracy

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Speaker 1: theories come out, which is that the US government unjustly

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Speaker 1: arrested him, put him in prison, and when he was

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Speaker 1: trying to do things like care cancer, right. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: you hear this kind of conspiracy theory tone from a

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Speaker 1: lot of Reich's supporters today, but also from Reich himself

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Speaker 1: at the time. I've listened to home recordings that Reich

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Speaker 1: made at Oregon on where he's talking into a tape

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Speaker 1: recorder and it sounds exactly like outtakes from a Limetown

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Speaker 1: episode where it's just a very creepy ambiance and uh,

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Speaker 1: and he's talking about how everyone's set against him and

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Speaker 1: they're all out to destroy his theories when all he

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Speaker 1: wants to do is help people and they just can't

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Speaker 1: open their minds. So one can hardly blame his followers

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Speaker 1: from having a kind of conspiracy theory mode of thinking

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Speaker 1: about the government's persecution of him. And we we might

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Speaker 1: want to be fair and say that the despite the

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Speaker 1: fact that Reich was promoting a lot of theories that

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Speaker 1: were clearly pseudoscience, a bunch of garbage, I think there

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Speaker 1: is a legitimate case to be made that he was

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Speaker 1: treated a little too harshly by the government. He he

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Speaker 1: kind of didn't get a fair shake. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm curious about the lake inner details of

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Speaker 1: what actually was behind this f d A shake up,

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it seems to me I would agree that

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Speaker 1: it seems unjust to put a guy in prison for

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Speaker 1: two years for building essentially like a telephone box filled

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Speaker 1: with cotton and driving it across straight lines. He didn't

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Speaker 1: even drive it across a person who worked for him.

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Speaker 1: I mean, presumably the dangerous part of it is that

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Speaker 1: he was allegedly selling this as a cure to people

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Speaker 1: who needed help for various things like cancer or for

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Speaker 1: psychological trauma, and it's it's hard to know to what

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Speaker 1: extent he was really benefiting off of other people's misinformation

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Speaker 1: about how likely this was to help them. One thing

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Speaker 1: we've had trouble tracking down is where where his money

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Speaker 1: came from. He clearly came from a fairly upper class,

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Speaker 1: well to do family in Europe, but also, um, it's

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Speaker 1: not quite clear how much, you know, how how he

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Speaker 1: was getting paid for his services for his research, if

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Speaker 1: he was getting donations, if he wasn't. He himself said

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Speaker 1: right that he didn't take any payment. Yeah, he's like,

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Speaker 1: I treat people for cancer with Oregon accumulators, and I

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Speaker 1: don't accept any payment for it. I And yet he

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Speaker 1: had a seventy acre estate in Rangely, Maine, right on

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Speaker 1: a lake. And of course, I mean, I guess at

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Speaker 1: the time it was probably worth less than it is now,

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Speaker 1: but it's still pretty extravagant. Well, anyway, even after he died,

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Speaker 1: his legacy continues. He wasn't just forgotten about. He still

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Speaker 1: has followers today. You can go on YouTube and look

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Speaker 1: at people who were talking about Oregon Energy and about

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Speaker 1: how it's going to fix their problems. So there's a

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Speaker 1: little bookstore on the estate, and I presumably all of

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Speaker 1: this is run by the Wilhelm Reich Infant Trust, which

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Speaker 1: if you go online there there's a whole site devoted

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Speaker 1: to this UH and you can buy his books and

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Speaker 1: videos and all that stuff there. But this is sort

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Speaker 1: of like the physical manifestation of it. UH. And as

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Speaker 1: far as I could tell, it was it was basically

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Speaker 1: run by by, you know, people from the town of

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Speaker 1: Rangeley who were just taking a paycheck to like give

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Speaker 1: tours of the museum UH and then like run the bookstore.

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Speaker 1: I didn't get the sense that they were like old

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Speaker 1: followers of his that have like stayed on the estate

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Speaker 1: for years or anything like that. Like that was not

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Speaker 1: the the the vibe at all. It very much just

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Speaker 1: felt like this was like a job for them. Um.

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Speaker 1: You could tell because they had way too much organ

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Speaker 1: and accumulated. Yeah, I mean their armor was all over

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Speaker 1: the place. But um so. But there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: books by him, and they're kept in print by two publishers.

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Speaker 1: One is the American College of Organomy UH and the

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Speaker 1: other one is a journal called the Journal of Organomy.

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Speaker 1: And these are you know, purportedly scientific UH publications. Imagine

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Speaker 1: that their their publications are not widely accepted in the

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Speaker 1: medical literature. I don't think so. Um I did when

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Speaker 1: I was there, though, I did buy one of his books,

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Speaker 1: and I bought This tells you how long ago it was.

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Speaker 1: I bought a VHS tape of of what you Watched Yesterday,

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Speaker 1: which is a YouTube video documentary in the losest terms, Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: about his history. Yeah, I watched one of these documentaries

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Speaker 1: that I think it was produced by the Infant Trust.

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Speaker 1: It was clearly a pro Wilhelm Reich documentary, and it

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Speaker 1: framed all of all of the criticisms of his work

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Speaker 1: as distortions and fabrications, and it was very defensive in tone.

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Speaker 1: And uh, it was kind of a it was kind

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Speaker 1: of a hagiography, like a portrait of a great man

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Speaker 1: who was unfairly treated. Well, I can say, you know,

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Speaker 1: I was there in my mid twenties, and I was

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Speaker 1: certainly will I don't I didn't necessarily believe in orgone.

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Speaker 1: I was pretty fascinated with his history and just these

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Speaker 1: ideas in general. Uh, and and so you know I

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Speaker 1: was willing. Yeah, I bought this video and I took

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Speaker 1: it back to Boston and showed it to my A

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Speaker 1: bunch of my friends and was like, can you believe

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Speaker 1: this happened? Can you believe this happened to this guy?

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Speaker 1: And and to be fair, like, I'm still you know, uh,

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Speaker 1: pretty upset. It's it's unfair that this guy went to

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Speaker 1: jail and died in jail, you know. But well maybe

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Speaker 1: maybe we can have a discussion about that. But but

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Speaker 1: you know, the stuff about the cloud busting and everything else,

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Speaker 1: it's like a little uh. And my friends right rightfully

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Speaker 1: were like, uh, this is weird. Um. But so I

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Speaker 1: still hold onto that VHS today, although now it's on

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Speaker 1: YouTube and anybody can go watch it, right, you just

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Speaker 1: go and type in Wilhelm ric organ and it shows up. Um.

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Speaker 1: But so the publications that are still out there now

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Speaker 1: in this journal, they were started by a psychiatrist called

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Speaker 1: Ellsworth Baker, and uh, like Joe said earlier, there are

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Speaker 1: some Rikian believers and practitioners that are still out there today. Uh,

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Speaker 1: And they occasionally get publicity occasionally see some of this

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Speaker 1: stuff pop up in the news, like you know, usually

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Speaker 1: under the headline of like you know, sex, energy, sure

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Speaker 1: something or whatever. Right, you know, it's it's pretty click

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Speaker 1: baby stuff. I'm surprised. I'm surprised that it hasn't made

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Speaker 1: their rounds again in the last couple of years. You know,

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Speaker 1: maybe like on I don't know, like BuzzFeed or something

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Speaker 1: like that. They would probably love a good Wilhelm rank story.

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Speaker 1: It has the S word. Yeah, right, exactly. Um. And

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Speaker 1: in the nineties, Rankings were even conducting research into how

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Speaker 1: a pregnant mother's emotions can affect her newborns delivery and

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Speaker 1: subsequent development. So like, things that happened to your mother

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Speaker 1: while you are in the womb can influence you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And ideas like that taken in isolation, like like if

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Speaker 1: you don't know that somebody's coming at this with an

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Speaker 1: or goon slant to it, Uh, that could seem like

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Speaker 1: a perhaps legitimate to research. I mean absolutely consider it

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Speaker 1: could be possible and you could test this in a

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Speaker 1: controlled setting to see, Okay, what if we just alter

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Speaker 1: variables causing sad or happy experiences for pregnant women, how

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Speaker 1: do their children turn out? Now, the ethics of that

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Speaker 1: might be questionable, but yeah, I mean that seems like

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Speaker 1: a thing that would be possible to study. Maybe. So

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Speaker 1: in preparing for this episode, obviously we didn't have the

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Speaker 1: time to go and read the entire history of the

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Speaker 1: Journal of Orgonomy, but I did pull one article by

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Speaker 1: a guy I don't know. His first name is h

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Speaker 1: and his last name was Chavis Uh and this was

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Speaker 1: published in the nineties. So this this was sort of

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Speaker 1: like my experience with reading a riichy and practitioner in

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Speaker 1: the nineties. There they're sort of outlook and he claimed

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Speaker 1: in the article that he couldn't list the data or

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Speaker 1: observations that have been made about orgone because there wasn't

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Speaker 1: enough space paper wise in the journal for him to

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Speaker 1: account for all of them, so he just didn't list

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Speaker 1: any of them. He didn't list any There were nones.

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Speaker 1: This is why many papers that we especially that we

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Speaker 1: read for for the show have literature reviews. So you

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Speaker 1: go in, you read the literature that's in the field,

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Speaker 1: and then you write, you know, a summary of what

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Speaker 1: the literature has has come up with so far about

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Speaker 1: this particular topic, and you link back to or cite

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Speaker 1: those sources. Right. Um, that way people can go, Okay,

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Speaker 1: if I want to know more about this and track

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Speaker 1: it down, they can go find those other sources and

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00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:35,159
Speaker 1: and maybe replicate them. Right. So that was not in

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Speaker 1: this piece. I'd also say the language within it is

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Speaker 1: weirdly cultish. Yeah. One of the things I observed in

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Speaker 1: that Wilhelm Right documentary I watched was that the language,

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Speaker 1: the the sort of style and presentation and tone of

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00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 1: it was very similar to materials I've seen produced by

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Speaker 1: the Church of Scientology concerning the life of L. Ron

389
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Speaker 1: Hubbard that have a bunch of you know, videos about L.

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00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:03,719
Speaker 1: Ron Hubbard just talking about what a great man he

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Speaker 1: was and his his wonderful ideas that were misunderstood, and

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Speaker 1: it was extremely familiar based on having watched those things before. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is a theme that I think we're going to

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Speaker 1: keep coming back to throughout this episode. But I see

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Speaker 1: a lot of parallels between reich And and L. R. H.

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Speaker 1: As they like to call him in the Church UM.

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Speaker 1: One specific example was Chavis used UM language like moving

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Speaker 1: towards the world and moving away from the world to

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Speaker 1: define scientific principles like mitosis or orgone in in the

400
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 1: argument that was presented in the paper, or even like

401
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,920
Speaker 1: just the way that the human organism develops UM, and

402
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 1: they were used as if these were like, you know,

403
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 1: legit scientific community phrases that were accepted as we all

404
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 1: understood what they meant, and it was very unclear what

405
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Speaker 1: what it actually meant. I think this is something that's

406
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,159
Speaker 1: always good to look out for if you're on the

407
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:06,120
Speaker 1: if you're on the lookout for pseudoscience, look for vague terminology,

408
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:10,919
Speaker 1: especially when it concerns the the actual like the crucial

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Speaker 1: actions that are being described as as causing an effect.

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Speaker 1: In some case, when people use words like activity or

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Speaker 1: something like that, you know there's something that's very vague

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Speaker 1: where you're not saying what's actually happening, you're just saying

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Speaker 1: something goes on. Right, Well, alright, real quick, there's two

414
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Speaker 1: less little bits I want to get into about his

415
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 1: history and then let's dive into his ideas. So his

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Speaker 1: daughter aver Reich actually toured the world demonstrating her father's

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Speaker 1: ideas after his death, so she was a believer. Although

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Speaker 1: I think it like sort of evolved into something more

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Speaker 1: along the lines of what we think of as bio

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Speaker 1: energetics today, and his student Alexander Lohen went on to

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Speaker 1: co found the Institute of bio Energetics UM. Usually people

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Speaker 1: who work within that field are psychologists, they don't have

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Speaker 1: a medical degree. UM. But it was way more popular

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Speaker 1: than organomy was like bio energetics has still has like

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Speaker 1: quite a following, I believe. Uh, when we talk about

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Speaker 1: raiki and practitioners and believers, I think it's a fairly

427
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 1: small subset compared to you know, some other alternative medicine types. Well,

428
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Speaker 1: let's dive into the organ zone. I think it's time

429
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 1: to talk about the epics of his theories and see

430
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 1: what's what's all the big fuss about. Okay, So let's

431
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: start with talking about his psychological theories, mainly about armoring

432
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,880
Speaker 1: and what is sort of known as alternative medicine today. Okay. Um, So,

433
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 1: after he studied with Sigmund freud, Reich theorized this is

434
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: sort of his general theory for this is that the

435
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: physical inability to surrender yourself to an orgasm is what

436
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 1: causes neurosis in a person. Okay, So this sounds pretty

437
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 1: similar to stuff that would already be propagated by people

438
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 1: like Freud, right that they hypothesized the origins of most

439
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: or all psychological difficulty in some kind of sexual trauma

440
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: or sexual frustration. Right, Yeah, although I think it should

441
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: be noted here and again this gets into the lake,

442
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 1: uh like really dramatic history of Reich's life. But Freud

443
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: didn't necessarily agree with a lot of his ideas and

444
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 1: took a good step back and distanced himself from Reich.

445
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: And that was kind of a shadow that loomed over

446
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: Reich for the rest of his career. Um. But so

447
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: Reike saying sexual frustration neurosis, yeah, and then not sexual

448
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 1: frustration specifically, you can't get to orgasm, you have neurosis, yeah, exactly. Uh.

449
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: And and he extrapolated this outward, saying that this is

450
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: actually what causes people to turn to fascism and authoritarianism.

451
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 1: And he saw his mission as being to eradicate fascism.

452
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: Now keep in mind, you know, he was coming up

453
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 1: with these theories in Europe during the rise of Nazism,

454
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 1: and so I think he saw this is like kind

455
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: of his only way to sort of combat what he

456
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: saw as being injustice, right. Uh. And he referred to

457
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: events like fascism as collective neurotic disorders. So he saw

458
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: this as a process that began in the delivery room.

459
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: This gets back to that research we were talking about

460
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 1: those in the nineties where medical staff let their unfeeling

461
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: procedures in nature induced anxiety and anguish into newborn babies,

462
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: you know, the kind of cold, mechanical feeling of a

463
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: hospital room. He saw that as being like our introduction

464
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 1: to the world and immediately installing anxiety into us. Okay,

465
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,479
Speaker 1: And I think this is another thing where a lot

466
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 1: of people might look at that idea today and say, well,

467
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: there's maybe something to that. Have we medicalized birth too much? Right? Yeah?

468
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: Where you have today like sort of alternative birth settings, right,

469
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 1: you know? Yeah, this is certainly something that has become

470
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: popularized since his death. Um. So here here's an example

471
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: sort of his trajectory for the orgasm neurosis combo. So

472
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: let's say you're a child and you're abused, uh, and

473
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: you would store the trauma from your abuse as muscular tension. Uh.

474
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 1: And this with later in life as when you're an adult,

475
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,679
Speaker 1: become chronic physical pain. And so he thought that um,

476
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 1: because of the emotional trauma being stored as physical pain,

477
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:30,199
Speaker 1: this informed a person's character and their physical being, like

478
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: how they carried themselves, how they looked even um. And

479
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: he identified things like asthma, allergies, colitis, heart disease, high

480
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: or low blood pressure, and cancer as all resulting from

481
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: orgone blockages. Inside the body. So this is when orgon

482
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 1: first starts creeping up into his his literature. I don't

483
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: think he's necessarily solidified the idea of it as being

484
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: like this energy that binds the universe together yet, but

485
00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: but it's it's sort of part of the theory, right uh.

486
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: And he sees that the only way to sort of

487
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 1: get rid of this and what he calls the life

488
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: formula is an essential constriction and release within the body

489
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 1: that's in multiple organic processes. Right. So this again came

490
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: from the article that was written by his follower in

491
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 1: the nineties, things like mitosis and bladder function. Right, there's

492
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 1: essential constriction and then released to that build up of

493
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: tension and then a catharsis yea. And so he saw

494
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 1: that as being an example of that this is this

495
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: permeates the universe. This is how it functions, and if

496
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: you don't cathartically release the orgasm, you'll just keep building

497
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: up this bad stuff exactly. Yeah, Okay, So in Night

498
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: he publishes this is. This is much later, after he's

499
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: in the US, he publishes a book called The Function

500
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 1: of the Orgasm, And this is where he argues that

501
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,479
Speaker 1: under all of our layers of repressed muscle. We have

502
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 1: something that he called orgiastic potency. Uh. And basically our

503
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: muscles and our deep tissues retain all these powerful memories

504
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: of our previous emotional states. Uh. And the muscular repression

505
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 1: is preventing us from achieving full orgasmic release and thus

506
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,479
Speaker 1: actually experiencing a full life. So is this explaining for

507
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: him how a person could in fact be experiencing orgasms

508
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: but still not quite begetting the release. It's this sort

509
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: of sounds like a way of reconciling the fact that

510
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: Um saying the problem is people aren't having orgasms, but

511
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 1: some people are and they still have neuroses. Yeah, and

512
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 1: I think this is later in the notes, but he

513
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: actually like noted in his journals at one point that

514
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 1: he had patients who UM would masturbate and they would

515
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: like be free of their neuroses for one week, like

516
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: he measured it, and then their neuroses would creep back

517
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: up unless they masturbate it again. So yeah, it kept

518
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: coming back around to the orgasm as being sort of

519
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: like this key component to to freeing yourself. So he

520
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: calls these blockages in our muscles armoring. And you might

521
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: have heard that term before. It's used in lots of

522
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,719
Speaker 1: other settings. I think we kind of use it just

523
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: in general every day talk. Now, when you say, like

524
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: someone is armored, right, if if I said, uh, Donald

525
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: Trump is armored, then you would so you would sort

526
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 1: of have an idea of what I meant, that he

527
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: sort of guarded and reserved physically about his emotions. Would

528
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: you say that about Donald? I don't think he's armored

529
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: at all. It was just picked a random Let me

530
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: tell you Donald Trumps. His organ energy is off the charts.

531
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 1: He is completely free and released. Uh So underneath Reich thought,

532
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,719
Speaker 1: under all this armor is where our true corese self is, right,

533
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: the decent, loving emotional being that we all essentially are.

534
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: This sort of connects to that quote I read very

535
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: at the very beginning where Brady talked about how Reich

536
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: would peel away the layers of people that the ship

537
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: and neurotic layers to reveal the person underneath. Yeah, And

538
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: I do want to note like I think that Reich

539
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 1: meant well right, Like I think that he had altruistic

540
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 1: intentions with his work. Um, given all the weird accounts

541
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: that I've read that you know about his I guess

542
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: like taking advantage of patients or or other things like yeah,

543
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: like along those lines, like I think he got misdirected

544
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: from his original goals. Well, I think this happens with

545
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 1: a lot of people like this, where people there there's

546
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 1: a cognitive dissonance because you look at them and you say, Okay,

547
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: sometimes it seems like they meant well, but then other

548
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: times they took advantage of people. I mean, I think

549
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: that makes sense. People are like that. People are a

550
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,479
Speaker 1: mixed bag. Sometimes they're trying to do good and sometimes

551
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,239
Speaker 1: they're being opportunistic and selfish. That can happen within the

552
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: same person. Yeah. Absolutely. Um. So, his general therapy that

553
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: he designs to deal with this theory, he calls it

554
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: character analysis, and the idea that he would help patients

555
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: overcome their physical and respiratory blockages, uh, the things that

556
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: are preventing them from experiencing pleasure in life. Right. So

557
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 1: he encourages therapists when he's teaching them about this to

558
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: observe their patients bodies and facial language as indicators of

559
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: their personality. Um, things like the way that we sit,

560
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 1: the way that we speak, the way that we walk.

561
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: They all would provide clues to these therapists about what

562
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: the inner self was, what actually was. Uh. So, then

563
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: he moves from a therapeutic sort of you know, traditional

564
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: talking on the couch with a shrink setting too deep

565
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 1: tissue massage. There's a way to get rid of this

566
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: hold on that sounds like it could be euphemistic. What

567
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 1: is it actually? So I believe it's actual deep tissue massage. Again.

568
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: You know, there's been some insinuations that there was some

569
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 1: hanky panky going on, but I believe that they genuinely

570
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: were giving massages to release mush muscle tension. It was

571
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: very painful, and the idea was that it would work

572
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 1: the trauma out. And when this was done in conjunction

573
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: with working with the client on their breathing, it would

574
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: help them express emotions that they couldn't normally express, like

575
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: anger or rage, and the release of such musculature would

576
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: create such an intense emotional release that they would finally

577
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: feel bliss. They would be happy for you know, one

578
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: of the first times in their life. Uh and Reich

579
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: called this or go not extreaming. When you reached that state,

580
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 1: when you released that anger, uh and that what you

581
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 1: would see as results in this during the massages would

582
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: be sadness, longing and unrestrained sobbing. Now this is again,

583
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: this is another thing that went on to become you

584
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: know quite uh. I guess a discipline within both massage

585
00:33:55,160 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: and ideas like well like uh, primal scream therapy for example,

586
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: but like other kind of like alternative therapies in which

587
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: people would release their their anger. Are there any particular

588
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 1: words you're supposed to scream? I have no idea, although

589
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: I will say that I just I'm sad that I

590
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 1: didn't get to write this, but how stuff works now.

591
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 1: Just published an article this week about rage rooms. Have

592
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: you heard about these? I saw the link. Yeah, so, um,

593
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: I'm fascinated and there's one here in Atlanta, and I

594
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,359
Speaker 1: kind of want to go, Like maybe we should do

595
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: like an episode where we go there and record what happens.

596
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 1: But basically they set up these rooms uh that for

597
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 1: you to destroy in in anger. So they give you

598
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 1: like a baseball bat or whatever, and you just go

599
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: around this room and smash everything up. Uh, And it's

600
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: supposed to help you cathartically release you know, you're bad

601
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 1: week or whatever. Um Uh it sounds real fascinating to

602
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:49,839
Speaker 1: me I'm curious about it, but I think in age

603
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: room would appeal to Reich. You know, intuitively, i'd say

604
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: that that makes sense. You, Oh yeah, you have catharsis,

605
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: you get all of your rage out you. It's sort

606
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: of like a pressure release valve in the Reich and

607
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: kind of sends you release the tension. But I think

608
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 1: there's also a sense in which you can compound frustrations

609
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 1: by expressing them. Oh yeah, yeah, I've definitely done that. Like,

610
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: I think that there's a common thing I observed and

611
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:14,800
Speaker 1: sometimes in myself, but also in friends and people I

612
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 1: care about, where you make yourself mad or about a

613
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 1: topic by venting about it. Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true. Again. So, like,

614
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,479
Speaker 1: this is a thing that I think that we've talked

615
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:28,800
Speaker 1: about this before the show, but I would really love

616
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 1: for the scientific community to actually dive into this stuff

617
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: and just produce a lot of quantitative evidence about what,

618
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: you know, how it works, um, the clinical psychology of

619
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: of Richyanism, or just like yeah, like the different expressions

620
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 1: of cathartic anger and or sadness leading to happiness. I'm

621
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 1: sure there's already somebody of research on that. Yeah, And

622
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,399
Speaker 1: so that's fair like um, I had a hard time

623
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,760
Speaker 1: finding present day research that was connected to this because

624
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: because I was using the search terms Reich or or

625
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 1: Gone in my searches. But there does seem to be

626
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,879
Speaker 1: literature out there that's just part of the general field

627
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,839
Speaker 1: of psychology about this. Okay, So getting back to Reich

628
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: and his idea of psychology and therapy, he argued that

629
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: this had to be guided by what he referred to

630
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: as a competent therapist, so probably somebody who trained under him,

631
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 1: because the results could actually overwhelm a patient. This gets

632
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: to what you're saying that, like, you know, if you're

633
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,839
Speaker 1: venting in the wrong setting, that it can be bad, right,

634
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: and he said that this could lead to suicide. This

635
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 1: almost sounds like, you know, you must confess to a

636
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: priest ordained by the church itself. Yes, yeah, and there's

637
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 1: you cannot have a la confessor. I think that I

638
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 1: think there's a good argument to be made that there's

639
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 1: a bit of theology and and you know, uh cultishness

640
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 1: about his theories. And this is where it really starts

641
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,479
Speaker 1: kind of forming, right where it's like, you can only

642
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: do it under my guidance, and only I have the

643
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 1: secret to the universe. Um, so that his secret part

644
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,479
Speaker 1: of it was that the body was divided up into

645
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: seven different segments and this is where the armor formed.

646
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 1: And the segments included the eye, the oral I'm assuming

647
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 1: that means the mouth, the neck, the chest, the diaphragm,

648
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:25,399
Speaker 1: the belly, and the pelvic segments. Uh okay. So it's

649
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: arguable that Reich's theories lead to many other theories and

650
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 1: movements within the field of psychology or alternative medicine that

651
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: we've talked about, right, Primal screen therapy, we talked about that,

652
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: gastalt therapy, bio energetics, Reichy, dozens of others, right, So

653
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 1: there's lots of places that this went after he passed away.

654
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 1: Averich's daughter, remember we were talking about her. She had

655
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: a particular kind of bio energetic body work that was

656
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 1: very different from her father's. Didn't involve the hard pressing.

657
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 1: I mean body work like physical manipulation of the body

658
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 1: as psychological treatment. Yes, yeah, hers was more like light

659
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:08,760
Speaker 1: they're called butterfly touching and creak emotions and blocked energy.

660
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,800
Speaker 1: I'm imagining that it's a little bit like a s

661
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 1: MR and that like there's whispering and light, you know

662
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 1: how like an a s m R, Like there's sometimes

663
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: like that touch of feather to a microphone or something

664
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: like that. I imagine it's kind of along those lines.

665
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: Oh well, I mean, if there's anything to that, I

666
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: just recommend coming up with a different name for it. Yeah, well,

667
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 1: butterfly touching. I'm going in for a butterfly touching session. Yeah.

668
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 1: And if you don't know what we're talking about with

669
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 1: a s MR, how stuff Works has covered it in

670
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 1: lots of different ways. But I believe that there's a

671
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 1: stuff to blow your mind video about a SMR. There's

672
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 1: definitely a brain stuff video about as MR because I

673
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: wrote it. Jonathan Strickland did a text Stuff podcast about it. Yeah,

674
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 1: So if you want to learn more about that that,

675
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:50,919
Speaker 1: we have lots of information about that. But I think

676
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: I think a SMR is slightly connected to some of

677
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: Reich's ideas um and Lowen's idea. His bio energetic ideas

678
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 1: was more or along lines of exercises that would loosen

679
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 1: armor and release energy. And you know that gets to

680
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 1: like I take a lot of yoga classes, and I

681
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: know Robert does as well. I'd like to hear what

682
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: Robert's opinions are on these things. But there is essentially

683
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 1: like some part of yoga that's that has these same ideas, right,

684
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: that if you do these particular exercises and you stretch

685
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: your body in particular ways, that it's going to align

686
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,240
Speaker 1: your mind and body together. Yeah. I'm not a yoga

687
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 1: practitioner myself. That's another one of those things that just

688
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 1: at a at an intuitive level, it seems to make sense.

689
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 1: I don't know if I've ever seen any research that

690
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 1: makes me think that there's a scientific basis for believing that,

691
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: but it certainly seems plausible it could be true. Given

692
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: my experience with it. It certainly feels like it works. Um.

693
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: But then you have people like Rex follower Chavis, who's

694
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: in his paper says that you can see the orgon

695
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: contraction exp ancient concept of armor in all organisms, and

696
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: he says this includes everything from amba and protozoans to

697
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: human beings. Okay, well, I think now it's time to

698
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 1: take a break. But when we come back, we're going

699
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: to get into the orgone energy itself and we're back.

700
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:28,280
Speaker 1: So all right, we've talked about his psychological ideas. Let's

701
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 1: get into orgone. What this is? This is the big

702
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,839
Speaker 1: the big tuna in the basket, as I might say,

703
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,760
Speaker 1: orgone energy. It seems to be. This is where Reich

704
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:44,879
Speaker 1: stepped out of psychoanalysis and tried to bridge some gap

705
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: between his psychoanalytic theories and physics. Yeah. Yeah, and to

706
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: my understanding, not having any kind of degrees or legitimacy

707
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: in physics, well, I mean, I wouldn't be an utter credentialist.

708
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say you need to have a degree in

709
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 1: sis to do good work in physics, but you do

710
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: need to get the kind of results and to formulate

711
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,320
Speaker 1: your theories in a way that other people can test

712
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 1: to see if there's anything to them. Right. So he

713
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 1: takes this idea from his earlier psychological theories and extrapolates

714
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:22,280
Speaker 1: it that the orgasm expresses a primal mass, free energy

715
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: slash force of life that he calls orgone. And as

716
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: I mentioned before, it's it's weirdly like the force from

717
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: Star Wars. I wonder if George Lucas read any Reichian

718
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 1: literature before he wrote Star Wars? Hold on, does it

719
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: surround us? Does it bind us the natural world? It

720
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: does bind us? I don't think that a Reich believed

721
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 1: that you could, like, you know, levitate starships with your

722
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 1: mind with orgone. But maybe he would have gotten to

723
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 1: that point, you know, if he if he'd studied a

724
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 1: little further. He did think that it was expressed in

725
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 1: a number of phenomenon, including the Aurora borealis. He thought

726
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: the Aurora borealis was caused by oregon and accumulated in

727
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 1: the atmosphere. So he's not just positing a life force

728
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 1: of some kind as many people have done that's present

729
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: in the bodies of animals and living organisms. I mean,

730
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 1: when you think of mesmerism and and old concepts of

731
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 1: animal electricity from before we discovered that, you know, the

732
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 1: electricity animals is just like the electricity. It's very in

733
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 1: the outside world. There. There have been a lot of

734
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,800
Speaker 1: concepts throughout history of there there's still kind of force

735
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,839
Speaker 1: in living things. But but he's taking this and saying no, no, no,

736
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 1: it's a force in the universe and you can see

737
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,479
Speaker 1: it outside of bodies. Yeah, I mean, to your point,

738
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 1: it's very similar to the Chinese concept of q, the

739
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 1: Japanese idea of key Hindu prana, and even some cobbalistic ideas. Right,

740
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 1: So this this binding energy slast force thing isn't something

741
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: that's particularly new, but yes, you're right. He believed that

742
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:59,400
Speaker 1: you could actually observe it physically under a microscope. He

743
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 1: called this bions their particles that he claimed he saw

744
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 1: blue particles. So this is we mentioned at the top.

745
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: These are sort of the minty chlorines of oregone, little

746
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: little things he saw what in the blood vessels of

747
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 1: the body or something. I'm not sure what he was

748
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:20,240
Speaker 1: looking at under the microscope actually um and and who knows,

749
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 1: you know, he but he thought because of this blue quality,

750
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 1: that oregon was responsible for lots of blue things. So,

751
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: for instance, he thought the reason why the sky was

752
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: blue was because of oregon um. And he extrapolates out

753
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: from this general theory of this life force into the

754
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:42,839
Speaker 1: technologies that we're going to talk about now, which are

755
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: his organ accumulators and cloud busters, that you could manipulate

756
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: oregon in such a way to receive beneficial effects from it. Yeah, okay,

757
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,320
Speaker 1: So let's say that you are a patient of Wilhelm

758
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 1: Reich and he decides that, well, you've got you've got

759
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 1: an orgon problem. What are we gonna do about it. So, uh,

760
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 1: he says, you should sit inside my organ accumulator and

761
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: what this is? Tell what does it look like. Well,

762
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 1: I've actually seen one because they're at the organ On Museum. Um,

763
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 1: but we also have a picture here in front of us.

764
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 1: They're basically like these phone booth sized devices with like

765
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 1: a door that he designed and the idea was that

766
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: they would harness orgone and he believed that you could

767
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 1: use it to cure everything from neurosis to cancer. This

768
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 1: is this is where the cure for cancer idea came in.

769
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 1: This is where your flag should go up whenever you

770
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:37,479
Speaker 1: hear somebody saying, hey, look I can cure cancer. Yeah,

771
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 1: it's right. There wasn't a ton of evidence that he

772
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 1: was doing any such thing. Um. The actual accumulators, I

773
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 1: guess they're kind of like Faraday cages like there, so

774
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:51,759
Speaker 1: it's alternating layers of wood and steel on the outside

775
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,800
Speaker 1: and then on the inside they're lined with these layers

776
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: of organic materials like wood and cotton in paper. Like

777
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 1: I remember seeing like you could actually see the layers

778
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 1: when you got in the thing. Like, um, there was

779
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: like stuffed paper and cotton inside, and um, he the

780
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 1: idea here was they were alternating organic and inorganic compounds,

781
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 1: and he thought that orgon energy would oscillate around inside

782
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 1: this box because of the way that oregon interacted with

783
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: different inorganic and organic materials. Yeah, wasn't the idea that

784
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 1: the organic materials would suck the orgon in and then

785
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:30,360
Speaker 1: the metal materials would reflect it back inwards so that

786
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 1: it would get trapped. It would be kind of like

787
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:36,280
Speaker 1: a greenhouse effect in the box for orgone. Yeah, and

788
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 1: and um, so this is you know, you're probably listening

789
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: and going, well, that just sounds plain crazy, right. He

790
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 1: goes to Albert Einstein and he's like, Hey, I've got

791
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: this idea for this orgon accumulator thing. I think it's

792
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 1: pretty you know, on the mark. Let's test this out.

793
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: And Einstein is excited about it at first. He's like,

794
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 1: oh wow, that like this is really interesting. But I

795
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:05,800
Speaker 1: in Stein's assistant, Leopold Infeld, believed that the organic accumulators

796
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 1: were producing heat basically because of the different temperature gradients

797
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 1: in the room that they were in. Right, So he

798
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 1: points us out to Einstein and Einstein's like, oh, yeah,

799
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 1: you're a total fraud. Uh go away. Reich and Uh,

800
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 1: he rejects this theory completely. Yeah, I wanted to read

801
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,400
Speaker 1: a section I mentioned earlier that documentary, that sort of

802
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:30,320
Speaker 1: pro Wilhelm Reich documentary. Uh, and I want to present

803
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: this is sort of the mode of thinking about how

804
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 1: they dealt with the results of their cancer treatment via

805
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:41,280
Speaker 1: orgon accumulators. So here here's the quote. Because his results

806
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 1: with cancer mice were so promising, Reich decided to test

807
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 1: the effects of orgone radiation on human subjects. He constructed

808
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 1: orgone energy accumulators that were large enough for a person

809
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 1: to sit in, and in nineteen forty two he began

810
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: experimental treatments with cancer patients. They were all terminal cases.

811
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 1: Reich prom us no cure and charge no money. Over

812
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:06,280
Speaker 1: a period of time, the patients showed marked improvement, relief

813
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: of pain, healthier blood condition, weight gain, and the shrinkage

814
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 1: and elimination of tumors. Despite these positive results, the patients died,

815
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 1: reinforcing rex convention that cancer is a bio energetic shrinking

816
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 1: following emotional resignation, and that the tumors themselves are not

817
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 1: the disease, but merely a local manifestation of a deeper

818
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 1: systemic disorder. I think it's funny there the way they

819
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:36,919
Speaker 1: kind of just brush aside the fact that they all died. Well. Yeah,

820
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:38,439
Speaker 1: and we were talking about this a little bit before

821
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 1: we came into recording. I guess, like, for me, if

822
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,720
Speaker 1: those people were getting a certain kind of like psychological

823
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 1: well being and contentment from this, whether it worked or not,

824
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 1: like if it was just a placebo, you know, I

825
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 1: wouldn't begrudge them that. Well, but I mean the question

826
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 1: is are they being um, are they being misled about

827
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 1: their chance of being helped by this? And are they

828
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 1: being uh or is this being substituted for a treatment

829
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 1: that would have a higher success rate? Yeah? Well, do

830
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 1: you know who owned an organ accumulator actually built one himself?

831
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 1: I don't know. Tell me you think that. I'm about

832
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:18,839
Speaker 1: to say Ben Boland, but I no, no, no, You're

833
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 1: gonna say, You're gonna say Kenny Rogers, No close, Elvis

834
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 1: Williams Burrows. Williams Burrows had one, and he used to

835
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 1: write in it. Uh. And my understanding is that Burrows,

836
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 1: uh I thought that the like he he wanted the

837
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 1: effects of the organ accumulator to help him with his

838
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 1: heroin addiction, and that like the the energies that were

839
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,360
Speaker 1: created in there helped him to be more creative, you know,

840
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 1: when he was writing. But of course his Reich's theory

841
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 1: about Oregon wasn't just static. He continued to sort of

842
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 1: update it with new discoveries. You might hear discoveries and

843
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 1: air quotes there. Yeah, so, um, then he updates it

844
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 1: later on and too, he says, there's another form. It's

845
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,360
Speaker 1: sort of like the force. Again, there's the light side

846
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:02,839
Speaker 1: and the dark side. So there's a sith organ there's

847
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:06,319
Speaker 1: a sith orgon, and it's deadly orgon radiation. He identifies

848
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 1: this as uh. He uses the acronym d O R

849
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: for it. And he saw this as being kind of

850
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 1: like the anti matter version of oregon, and it's responsible

851
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 1: for all environmental degradation uh, and that this kind of

852
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 1: orgone could actually be contaminated by radiation. And this is

853
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 1: another instance where it feels like he's influenced by what's

854
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:32,320
Speaker 1: going on at the time with nuclear testing and the

855
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,799
Speaker 1: use of the atom bomb during World War Two, and

856
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 1: he's he's either incorporating that into his theories somehow or

857
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 1: he's reacting to it because of Again, let's get back

858
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 1: to his general idea is to stop fascism, right right, Well,

859
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:45,839
Speaker 1: I mean this sounds a lot like one of the

860
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 1: plots of those atomic age horror sci fi movies. There's

861
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 1: there's an atomic test that contaminates some kind of force

862
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:57,240
Speaker 1: or energy and creates a monster. Yeah, like giant ants

863
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:00,040
Speaker 1: or something like that. Yeah. Well, he said that the

864
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 1: results of d O R we're actually desertification. So he

865
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 1: ups and moves his whole family from range Le, Maine

866
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 1: to Tucson, Arizona in ur and the idea is that

867
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 1: he's going to combat the desert with a new invention

868
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 1: that he has that's gonna harness or gone to fight

869
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 1: d O R off um And he wrote, it hadn't

870
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:27,359
Speaker 1: rained in Tucson in five years. That's not true, Like

871
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: if you go back and you look at at at

872
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 1: National Weather Service records of the time it had rained

873
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 1: in Tucson. But but so part of his writings are,

874
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 1: you know, Tucson's the ideal place to do this. It

875
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 1: hasn't rained in five years. I'm going to fix this desert.

876
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 1: I love what you said that he was going to

877
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: square off against the desert. I'm just imagining him standing

878
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:49,439
Speaker 1: on a sand dune looking out across the desert saying

879
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,920
Speaker 1: I will defeat you. This is kind of um. You

880
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 1: know we were talking about the Kate Bush video earlier.

881
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: That's kind of it. It's like him and his son

882
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 1: with a cloud buster against the desert. Well, this leads

883
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 1: to the last thing we're going to talk about, which

884
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:07,800
Speaker 1: is Reich's biggest final technological innovation, which is the cloud buster.

885
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:11,319
Speaker 1: Right now, people have long wanted to control the weather.

886
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 1: That's obvious. You know. People did religious rituals to control

887
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 1: the weather. People have experimented with cloud seating and hal cannons.

888
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:22,840
Speaker 1: Cloud seating maybe sort of works, it's it's not clear

889
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:25,799
Speaker 1: exactly how well it works. Has had episode about it

890
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 1: for Forward Thinking. Forward Thinking just recently did a did

891
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 1: some weather modification episodes. Hail cannons are these things that

892
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: send shock waves of the clouds to make it not hail. Um.

893
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:38,319
Speaker 1: I don't think that there's any scientific evidence that these

894
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:40,720
Speaker 1: things work. I think these were theories that we're floating

895
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:43,840
Speaker 1: around it during Wright's time as well, Like the cloud

896
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:46,399
Speaker 1: seating was definitely like being thought about. Oh yeah, um,

897
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:50,240
Speaker 1: and so this was kind of his answer to that, right, um.

898
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 1: And the idea is that he would harness orgone energy

899
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 1: and redirect it to manipulate the weather. So remember he

900
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 1: thought the atmosphere, this guy being the Aurora borealis, all

901
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 1: these things were affected by Oregon. But the idea here

902
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: was that he would mainly use it to grow crops.

903
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 1: So the cloud buster would dispel d O R. So

904
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 1: when you watch that that documentary, did they show cloudbusters

905
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:16,760
Speaker 1: in it? Yeah, okay they did, so, Like I uh,

906
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:19,319
Speaker 1: they have Cloudbusters at organ On So when I went

907
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 1: there and visited, you know, got to see it up

908
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 1: close and personal, and it's and they presented it as

909
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 1: if it unquestionably works. Well, there's some dispute about that,

910
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 1: although there are there were other people that weren't Reik

911
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:34,399
Speaker 1: that said that it was working for them. Well, I mean,

912
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:36,439
Speaker 1: this is a thing that comes up whenever you're talking

913
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:39,359
Speaker 1: about whether modification attempts is like, what if you do

914
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 1: something and then you do something to try to make

915
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 1: it rain, and sometime over the next day or two

916
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 1: it does rain. Yeah, wait, did it work? I mean

917
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 1: you could say, oh, it worked, but maybe it was

918
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 1: just gonna rain anyway. But as Kate Bush says, every

919
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:58,920
Speaker 1: time it rains, the sun's coming out. I still I'm

920
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:00,959
Speaker 1: still like, my mind's blown. I've got to go listen

921
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 1: to the thing. We'll listen to it afterwards. Um So,

922
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 1: the cloudbusters basically look like this. They're like these series

923
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:10,279
Speaker 1: of hollow metal pipes. They kind of look like a

924
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 1: giant pan flute you're right on, and they're bound. Those

925
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:16,680
Speaker 1: pipes are bound together, and then there's cables that run

926
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 1: out of them and right would either run them right

927
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:23,200
Speaker 1: into the ground or into water into the lake there

928
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 1: at oregonon I don't know where where he was putting

929
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 1: them in Tucson, the cables themselves, but um uh. The

930
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: idea was that he would aim the series of pipes

931
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:36,279
Speaker 1: upward at the sky and it would the water would

932
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 1: attract or gone and draw it up through the cable

933
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:41,840
Speaker 1: and then out through the pipes, and the pipes would

934
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:45,320
Speaker 1: shoot or gone into the sky and it would create

935
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:48,799
Speaker 1: clouds in their way. This would subsequently lead to rain.

936
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:53,919
Speaker 1: So he does these experiments in Tucson. Tucson does experience

937
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,800
Speaker 1: heavy rain during his experiments. So just as you said,

938
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 1: you know, there's kind of this well, look it worked,

939
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: you know, And of course for him he's like, yeah,

940
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 1: I've got some tiger repellent to sell you. Then it

941
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 1: gets this is where Reich's stuff. It really goes off

942
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 1: the rails for me personally. Uh in May of nineteen

943
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:15,279
Speaker 1: hold on, it didn't before. I you know, there was

944
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 1: always a small part of me that was like, especially

945
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:19,960
Speaker 1: like when I visited organ and that was kind of like,

946
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:22,840
Speaker 1: what if there's something to this cloud busting could be

947
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:24,239
Speaker 1: kind of cool if like I go up to the

948
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:26,760
Speaker 1: cloud Buster and I can feel the ripples of Oregon

949
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,879
Speaker 1: like like around it, Like, oh it it works. Did

950
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:32,320
Speaker 1: you feel them? No? Did you feel the sacred vibrations?

951
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 1: There was nothing. There was nothing. There was a nice

952
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:37,360
Speaker 1: wood at a state We took a nice walk in

953
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 1: the woods. That sounds great. Um May of nineteen fifty three,

954
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 1: Right claims that he used a cloud Buster to drive

955
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:52,000
Speaker 1: off to UFOs. So now we're entering X Files territory.

956
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:53,759
Speaker 1: In fact, I was shocked that there wasn't an X

957
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 1: Files episode about Reich. Right. He thought that UFOs were

958
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 1: actually influenced by Oregon energy and that the idea was

959
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 1: that Cloudbusters could be used like a space gun to

960
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 1: fend them off. I have nothing to add to that.

961
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 1: I mean, it's kind of crazy. There isn't a lot

962
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 1: about it, um, And there also isn't a lot about

963
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 1: like what he actually meant by UFOs, you know, so

964
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,320
Speaker 1: like who knows if he thought they were alien spaceships

965
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 1: or he thought it was something else, But he clearly

966
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 1: thought like the phenomena was connected to Oregon and that

967
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 1: Cloudbusters would make it stop. Um this now, I hope

968
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 1: I have my timeline straight. But this early nineteen fifties era,

969
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:39,759
Speaker 1: this was sort of UFO fever. Right after World War

970
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 1: Two was when people started really seeing UFOs. Yeah, I

971
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 1: think so. I mean, we have consult Ben, Matt and

972
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 1: Knoll on this, because there really are in house experts.

973
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 1: But yeah, I want to say, like, when when did

974
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:54,239
Speaker 1: the Roswell incident purportedly happen? I just looked it up.

975
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:57,399
Speaker 1: It was okay. So that's a good amount of time

976
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 1: for that to kind of enter popular consciousness and and

977
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 1: him to be aware of it, especially because he's in

978
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 1: Arizona and it's it's probably something that's being talked about. Well.

979
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:09,319
Speaker 1: He goes back to Maine in nineteen fifty four with

980
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:13,319
Speaker 1: the Cloudbuster farmers in Maine. We're having trouble growing their

981
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:17,880
Speaker 1: blueberry crops, so they paid right. So okay, now we

982
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 1: know he made some money at least off of this.

983
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 1: They paid right to produce rain to help their crops,

984
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:27,839
Speaker 1: and these farmers said it was successful. There was an

985
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:30,759
Speaker 1: article in the Bangor Daily News from the time in

986
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:32,719
Speaker 1: which they interviewed some of these farmers and they said,

987
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:34,560
Speaker 1: I don't know how he's doing it, but it works

988
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:39,240
Speaker 1: like it's raining. My crops are better. So there you go. Um,

989
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:43,479
Speaker 1: but their accounts differ slightly from the official National Weather

990
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:46,719
Speaker 1: Service records for Bangor around that time. So like the

991
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:49,319
Speaker 1: days that they said it rain, we're different from when

992
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 1: it you know, the actual governmental records of when it rained.

993
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:56,399
Speaker 1: Now again, I can see where conspiracy theorists would dive

994
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:58,600
Speaker 1: right into that and say, well, you know, of course

995
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 1: the governmental records were all there it or something like that.

996
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:04,759
Speaker 1: But um, so the cloudbuster is really kind of the

997
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 1: apex of Reich's orgone technology movement, right, Um, because of

998
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:14,759
Speaker 1: what we mentioned earlier with the whole f D a

999
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 1: thing somebody moved in or going to accumulator across state lines,

1000
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:21,480
Speaker 1: he goes to prison and dies in prison. Yeah, so anyway,

1001
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 1: for me, the whole story about Wilhelm Reich raises several

1002
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 1: interesting questions. One of them is when it's legitimate for

1003
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:34,000
Speaker 1: the state authorities, or for really any authorities, maybe even

1004
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 1: just professional authorities like a psychiatric or professional organizations, to

1005
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 1: step in and interfere with what somebody is claiming as

1006
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:47,640
Speaker 1: scientific research or medical therapy. I mean, there are extreme

1007
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 1: cases where you can say, Okay, what if somebody's selling

1008
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 1: flu shots out the back of their van and they're

1009
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:57,200
Speaker 1: full of drain. Oh, that seems pretty obvious this person

1010
00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:00,120
Speaker 1: is committing a crime, and uh, and the governed it

1011
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 1: should step in and stop them and take them to jail. Um.

1012
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 1: What if somebody is just selling people a cancer treatment

1013
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:12,280
Speaker 1: that there's no evidence makes them better? Yeah? Is that

1014
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 1: a case where the government should step in and say

1015
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 1: you can't do that? Or I don't know, I feel

1016
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:20,120
Speaker 1: like that's a tough case. Yeah. I mean for me

1017
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 1: personally in the Reich example, unless there's like evidence or

1018
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:28,320
Speaker 1: I'm missing something completely from the story. Maybe there's listeners

1019
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:32,080
Speaker 1: out there who are steeped much deeper in Rech history

1020
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 1: and lore than I am. But it does seem fairly

1021
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 1: unjust to me to um put this guy in prison.

1022
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 1: For two years and also sort of a waste of

1023
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:45,680
Speaker 1: taxpayer dollars to you know, run a trial and everything

1024
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:49,120
Speaker 1: and keep him in prison. Yeah, solely because he said

1025
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:51,960
Speaker 1: that he could care cancer with this telephone box. In

1026
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:56,439
Speaker 1: what way is the person being honest with people? So

1027
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 1: it seems to me that it would make a difference

1028
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:02,680
Speaker 1: if somebody says, hey, I've got this experimental treatment. It's

1029
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 1: not proven. You know, you you really should be informed

1030
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 1: about what your options are, but you can try this

1031
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 1: if you're interested, versus somebody saying I'm a doctor and

1032
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 1: let me tell you all the other stuff they're gonna

1033
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:17,800
Speaker 1: do for you at the hospital. It's bunk. You need

1034
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:20,640
Speaker 1: to get into my box. Well, and that's the thing

1035
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:22,360
Speaker 1: that's going to save your life, and give me all

1036
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 1: your money. I mean, those do seem like kind of different. Yeah,

1037
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:28,320
Speaker 1: although to me, I do want to make clear, like

1038
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 1: I don't know necessarily that that's how Reich was portraying it,

1039
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 1: you know, I know, I mean I'm asking like it's

1040
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 1: hard to know what level of of what since he

1041
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:40,320
Speaker 1: was leveling with people and what since he was overstating

1042
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 1: what kind of results they could expect or overstating the

1043
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:47,240
Speaker 1: proven effectiveness of his methods. So well, there's two things here,

1044
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:50,360
Speaker 1: like like his license as a medical doctor should have

1045
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:52,800
Speaker 1: been called into question if that were the case. And

1046
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:55,880
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if he was licensed as a medical

1047
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 1: doctor in the United States. He may have earned a

1048
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:01,520
Speaker 1: degree in Europe, but I don't know that he necessarily,

1049
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:04,120
Speaker 1: you know, filed the right paperwork or took the right

1050
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 1: accreditation to keep that in the United States. Now, obviously

1051
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:10,560
Speaker 1: we do make a distinction between medical procedures and other

1052
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:14,120
Speaker 1: kinds of pseudoscience, because you can the hail cannons I

1053
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:17,280
Speaker 1: talked about earlier there. I don't think that people who

1054
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:19,520
Speaker 1: are experts in the field of weather think that there's

1055
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 1: anything to these. There's no evidence that they work, but

1056
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 1: you can sell them. Sure, you're fine. Nobody's gonna take

1057
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:27,440
Speaker 1: you to jail for selling a hail cannon, right, as

1058
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:31,160
Speaker 1: long as it's not hurting anybody, right or the environment,

1059
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 1: I guess. But so then there's the other The other

1060
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 1: side of this too is like you know, we mentioned

1061
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:40,280
Speaker 1: earlier that there were patients who had cancer who went

1062
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 1: underwent orgone accumulator therapy and died, right, Well, it said

1063
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:50,800
Speaker 1: that all of them died. They claimed though they claimed

1064
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 1: that the thing that that stuck in their minds was

1065
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 1: that they had pain relief, or they said they had

1066
01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 1: pain relief. I mean, then again, those those are things

1067
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:03,680
Speaker 1: that can be a acted by psychosomatic maybe a placebo effect.

1068
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:07,920
Speaker 1: So I guess the question is how much of how

1069
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:11,560
Speaker 1: much of it was their responsibility to be informed about

1070
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:15,560
Speaker 1: what the therapies were that were available, you know, and

1071
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:20,040
Speaker 1: or whether, like there are certain instances even today, whether

1072
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:22,520
Speaker 1: there are people who say, you know what, like traditional

1073
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 1: medicine isn't doing what I wanted to do. I'm gonna

1074
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:28,000
Speaker 1: try this thing. I don't care if it's real or not.

1075
01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 1: As long as it makes me feel better, that's okay

1076
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:33,960
Speaker 1: with me. Well, this is another thing that's interesting about

1077
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:40,040
Speaker 1: alternative medicines is that very often they are less unpleasant

1078
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:44,240
Speaker 1: than the conventional medical procedure. Like if you've got cancer

1079
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 1: and the doctors saying, look, the best outcome for you,

1080
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 1: statistically is going to be to undergo an aggressive round

1081
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:53,880
Speaker 1: of chemotherapy is going to make you very it's gonna

1082
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:55,280
Speaker 1: put you in a lot of pain and make you

1083
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 1: feel sick and make you miserable, but you're gonna have

1084
01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:01,160
Speaker 1: a much higher percentage chance of survive having this cancer

1085
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 1: if you undergo it versus an alternative healer who's saying like, look,

1086
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 1: I can give you some massages and you can take

1087
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 1: some vitamin C and uh, and I think that's going

1088
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:15,479
Speaker 1: to help. I mean, it's obvious that one is much

1089
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 1: less daunting course of treatment. Yeah, yeah, certainly. Well, I

1090
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:23,560
Speaker 1: mean that's very specific to cancer. I'm curious about. I

1091
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:27,560
Speaker 1: wonder if Reich did this treatment with people who were

1092
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:32,360
Speaker 1: suffering from something that wasn't as extreme as cancer physically, um,

1093
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:34,240
Speaker 1: and what what kind of results he had with it.

1094
01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:36,440
Speaker 1: So this again, this is kind of like where I

1095
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:39,640
Speaker 1: would love it if the scientific discipline would sort of

1096
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:43,760
Speaker 1: dive into these ideas not necessarily or gone, you know

1097
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:46,720
Speaker 1: what I mean, But just like some of the general

1098
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:51,920
Speaker 1: ideas behind uh the orgasm release having to do with

1099
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:55,480
Speaker 1: the physical manifestation of trauma. Oh yeah, I know what

1100
01:02:55,520 --> 01:02:58,360
Speaker 1: you're saying, Like, obviously I don't think there's anything to

1101
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:02,080
Speaker 1: orgo and I mean just is kind of it's something

1102
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 1: that's pretty funny. Now, what if we're wrong, What if

1103
01:03:04,720 --> 01:03:10,000
Speaker 1: like two dred years from now, people he was society

1104
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:12,600
Speaker 1: is totally based around Oregon and people listen back on

1105
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 1: this podcast and they go, what barbarians, Well, please judge

1106
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:19,200
Speaker 1: me future people. I welcome it. But no, what you

1107
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 1: say I think does have some merits because there may

1108
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:24,480
Speaker 1: have been other ideas, maybe some of his ideas in

1109
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:28,320
Speaker 1: psychoanalysis that have a germ of truth about them. And

1110
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 1: uh and I know you think that may be the

1111
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:32,520
Speaker 1: case with some of these things, right, yeah. I mean

1112
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 1: for me personally, like, I'm much older now than I

1113
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:38,040
Speaker 1: was when I went to Oregon on Uh, so I

1114
01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:40,560
Speaker 1: don't necessarily have as much hope for cloud busting as

1115
01:03:40,560 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 1: I used to. But but yeah, I do believe that

1116
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:47,400
Speaker 1: there's a certain amount of connection between emotional trauma and

1117
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:52,040
Speaker 1: physical um ailments. So so you think his thing about

1118
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:57,040
Speaker 1: deep tissue massages for treating psychological disturbances might might have

1119
01:03:57,240 --> 01:04:00,360
Speaker 1: an effect. Yeah, yeah, I I'm willing to believe. Yeah,

1120
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:02,200
Speaker 1: I think that's a lot to believe that. I think

1121
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:04,960
Speaker 1: that's the thing that could be studied. Yeah, I do too,

1122
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:07,880
Speaker 1: um and um and I and you know, I'm obviously

1123
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 1: curious about like the tangents that went off, you know,

1124
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:13,320
Speaker 1: bio energetics is what his daughter was doing all those

1125
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:17,479
Speaker 1: kinds of things. Um, but yeah, I mean he made

1126
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:21,480
Speaker 1: such a radical leap from that too, here's this space

1127
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:26,000
Speaker 1: gun that will shoot down UFOs that it it's problematic,

1128
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:30,480
Speaker 1: and and I think that it's problematic in reverse for

1129
01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:34,280
Speaker 1: his somewhat plausible theories to right and that, like they

1130
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:42,200
Speaker 1: were tainted by the craziness around cloud busting, and subsequently

1131
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:44,280
Speaker 1: people just wanted to stay as far away from it

1132
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 1: as possible, and the discipline if they're going to be

1133
01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:48,680
Speaker 1: taken seriously, I totally agree. I think this is a

1134
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:51,520
Speaker 1: thing that can happen in professional disciplines where it like,

1135
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:56,000
Speaker 1: what if there is an unconventional hypothesis that is primarily

1136
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:59,240
Speaker 1: pursued by somebody who is widely regarded as a quack,

1137
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:02,080
Speaker 1: and and somebody later comes back and says, well, of

1138
01:05:02,080 --> 01:05:04,800
Speaker 1: course their work was bad, their methodology was bad, but

1139
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 1: there might be something to the hypothesis. I want to

1140
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:09,560
Speaker 1: check it out and do a do some better methodology

1141
01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:13,000
Speaker 1: on it. Uh. There there still might be some resistance

1142
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:16,080
Speaker 1: in the field, Right, people might look at us scans

1143
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:19,720
Speaker 1: for pursuing that that quack direction that somebody took in

1144
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:21,320
Speaker 1: the past. Yeah, I mean I was telling you a

1145
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:23,480
Speaker 1: story that when I was in graduate school. One of

1146
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:26,640
Speaker 1: my um peers in grad school wanted to do his

1147
01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:31,600
Speaker 1: dissertation on the medics UM and and memes the um

1148
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:34,960
Speaker 1: you know, we've covered it before, Susan Blackmore and Richard

1149
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:39,800
Speaker 1: Dawkins theories about memes, and he was treated like like

1150
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:44,240
Speaker 1: he was an utter idiot by the department, and like

1151
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:46,960
Speaker 1: not just in the sense of like his dissertation and

1152
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:48,520
Speaker 1: the work he was doing, which, as far as I

1153
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 1: could tell, like he was he was doing his due

1154
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:53,000
Speaker 1: diligence in terms of like his research and writing and

1155
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:55,480
Speaker 1: all that stuff, but just like even just in the

1156
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 1: everyday classroom, you know, like professors were just like, oh,

1157
01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:01,320
Speaker 1: this guy, you know, if he would try to bring

1158
01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:04,360
Speaker 1: the medics into any kind of conversation related to a

1159
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:07,560
Speaker 1: rhetorical theory or something like that. Um. So I can

1160
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:09,800
Speaker 1: see why the same thing would probably happen if the

1161
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:12,920
Speaker 1: ploy to judge that not worth talking about. Yeah, Like

1162
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:15,080
Speaker 1: if some psychology student was like, all, I don't want

1163
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:17,640
Speaker 1: to like really test out some of this raiking and

1164
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:20,240
Speaker 1: theory stuff, you know, I could see why they would

1165
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:24,280
Speaker 1: be ostracized. So but I do have to say too,

1166
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 1: I mean, what do you think would have happened if

1167
01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:29,840
Speaker 1: Wright didn't pass away in prison, where would this go next?

1168
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:34,000
Speaker 1: I know what you think, Yeah, I mean I so

1169
01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:37,360
Speaker 1: I brought this up earlier, and I think that, like

1170
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:40,080
Speaker 1: it's another l Ron Hubbard situation. And I think that

1171
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:43,800
Speaker 1: he was at the beginning stages of establishing his own

1172
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:49,640
Speaker 1: religion in a way based around Oregon and with technological

1173
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:54,200
Speaker 1: and scientific principles that aren't accepted by mainstream community, the

1174
01:06:54,560 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 1: mainstream community, but that are accepted by the people within

1175
01:06:57,920 --> 01:07:00,720
Speaker 1: his religion. I don't know that Rightness fairly would have

1176
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:04,160
Speaker 1: called it a religion right like he, but it does

1177
01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:07,120
Speaker 1: have a sort of function, like theological basis to it.

1178
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:10,240
Speaker 1: They they yeah, they had the ideology, they had the compound,

1179
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:13,400
Speaker 1: they had the right. If you listen to Reik's recordings,

1180
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:16,560
Speaker 1: he has a sense of persecution and otherness, and he

1181
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 1: was a very charismatic guy. Yeah yeah, but yeah, I

1182
01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:20,920
Speaker 1: have one of his books that I bought when I

1183
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:23,240
Speaker 1: was at Argon on it's called Shut Up, Little Man,

1184
01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:27,640
Speaker 1: and it's basically like a long rant about how everybody

1185
01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:30,800
Speaker 1: he is wrong about present day circumstances and they should

1186
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:33,680
Speaker 1: listen to him because he has the answer. And partly

1187
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:37,680
Speaker 1: it's compelling because the things that he's ranting about people

1188
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:40,760
Speaker 1: having wrong, they did have wrong, Like you know, society

1189
01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:44,520
Speaker 1: was dysfunctional at the time. That's he wasn't wrong about that.

1190
01:07:44,560 --> 01:07:46,680
Speaker 1: But I don't know that his answers were necessarily the

1191
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:49,080
Speaker 1: place to go. Okay, well, I guess that wraps it

1192
01:07:49,160 --> 01:07:52,560
Speaker 1: up for Orgo and Energy and Wilhelm Reich today. But

1193
01:07:52,600 --> 01:07:54,360
Speaker 1: if you want to get in touch with us about

1194
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:57,520
Speaker 1: any of the topics we've talked about today, you can

1195
01:07:57,520 --> 01:08:00,439
Speaker 1: find us on social media where handle is of the Mind.

1196
01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:03,840
Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, where else. We

1197
01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:07,800
Speaker 1: are on tumbler. Uh. We are also on periscope every

1198
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 1: Friday at noon Eastern Standard time when unless we're not

1199
01:08:11,160 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 1: and we'll let you know, yeah, but we're actually right

1200
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:15,160
Speaker 1: about to run to go do that recording on a

1201
01:08:15,160 --> 01:08:17,439
Speaker 1: Friday morning. You can also find all of our stuff.

1202
01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:20,880
Speaker 1: Our blog posts, are podcasts, are videos and everything else.

1203
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:23,759
Speaker 1: It's stuff to blow your mind dot com. Oh and hey,

1204
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:27,439
Speaker 1: if you are really like steeped in this riking and stuff,

1205
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:30,920
Speaker 1: because I've heard that you can recreate orgon accumulators and

1206
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:34,120
Speaker 1: cloudbusters from blueprints that are available out there. If you're

1207
01:08:34,160 --> 01:08:36,360
Speaker 1: one of those and you have access to these, I

1208
01:08:36,360 --> 01:08:38,400
Speaker 1: would love it if you sent it to us directly,

1209
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:40,840
Speaker 1: and the way that you can do that is by

1210
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:43,040
Speaker 1: you know and and for any other needs. If you

1211
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:45,280
Speaker 1: want to send us a message or an email or

1212
01:08:45,280 --> 01:08:48,200
Speaker 1: anything like that, write us at Blow the Mind at

1213
01:08:48,200 --> 01:09:00,040
Speaker 1: how stuff Works dot com. Well more on this and

1214
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:25,760
Speaker 1: thousands of other topics is that house stuff works dot com,

1215
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:18,440
Speaker 1: the big everything st