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Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel, I'm Matt. Today

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Speaker 1: we're talking budgeting like a beast with Jesse Meekom. That's right,

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Speaker 1: Jesse Meekom. He is joining us on the podcast today

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Speaker 1: and we are going all in on budgeting. I'm guessing

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Speaker 1: there's a number of folks listening who might recognize his name,

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Speaker 1: but I'm guessing even more folks are familiar with the

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Speaker 1: company he started back in two thousand three while he

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Speaker 1: was still in college. You need a budget, or why

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Speaker 1: NAB as it's commonly known what we call it. Millions

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Speaker 1: of individuals have now used why NAP to get on

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Speaker 1: a budget, which has allowed them to achieve their life

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Speaker 1: changing financial goals. And so whether that's simply paying off

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Speaker 1: debt or the complicated endeavor of getting on the same

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Speaker 1: page as your partner, that's difficult. Uh. Jesse has likely

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Speaker 1: thought more about budgeting over the past twenty years than

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Speaker 1: anyone else out there, so we're excited to talk with

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Speaker 1: him about all the things that he's learned and observed. Jesse,

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Speaker 1: thank you for joining us today. I am so glad

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Speaker 1: to be here. Thanks guys, Jesse. We're glad to have

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Speaker 1: you and the first question we ask everyone who comes

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Speaker 1: on the show is what's your what do you like

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Speaker 1: to sport on? We call it your craft beer equivalent

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Speaker 1: because Matt and I we spend more money than most

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Speaker 1: people would think is normal on craft beer because we

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Speaker 1: love it. But we're happy to do that because we're

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Speaker 1: saving and investing well for the future while we're spending

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Speaker 1: a lot of money on beer. So what do you

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Speaker 1: what do you spend a lot of money on that

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Speaker 1: maybe people might think is kind of crazy. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't mix beer and what I spent a lot of

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Speaker 1: money on, but I would say my my wood shop

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Speaker 1: there is it is a it is a money pit,

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Speaker 1: and there's always another thing you can buy. I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: currently in the shop for a floor or in the

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Speaker 1: market for it like a floor standing variable speed drill press.

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Speaker 1: So what are you making into this wood shop? Are

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Speaker 1: you making? Like canoes? Ron swantson style? What are you doing?

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Speaker 1: If I had these skills of Ron Swanson, I would

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Speaker 1: have arrived. But I he's in real life. He is

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Speaker 1: a killer woodworker's yeah, I mean making a beautiful handcrafted canoes. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's insane. So yeah, anyway, my I have his book

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Speaker 1: here actually got good clean fund by Nick Offerman. It's

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Speaker 1: it's excellent. But the yeah, I will make anything. But

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Speaker 1: right now I'm working on shop furniture like I'm because

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Speaker 1: you can kind of learn like it's if it's if

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Speaker 1: it looks bad, it doesn't matter because it's all in

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Speaker 1: your shop. So I'm learning a lot of the basics.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm taking like a general like basic woodworking course

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Speaker 1: where they go through all the different jointry, kind of

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Speaker 1: the foundational joinery. And I love just being a novice.

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Speaker 1: So I have a shop that looks like I'm a professional,

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Speaker 1: and I am a novice, and I'm not ashamed to

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Speaker 1: admit it. I just I think it's fun to get

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Speaker 1: the new tools. So whenever I can squeeze it into

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Speaker 1: the old plan, I do it very nice. So are

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Speaker 1: you pursuing this purely out of just with it, you know,

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Speaker 1: with it being a passion as you know, as oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: an interest, not something that you foresee being able to sell.

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Speaker 1: You know, fine, I would have ruined it. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to ruin my hobby by monetizing. He's gonna open

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Speaker 1: up like a woodside stand. People are gonna be like

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Speaker 1: I'm not paying for that, Jesse. Jesse might get so

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Speaker 1: good that folks are saying, please let me buy that babe,

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Speaker 1: that beautiful I will give. I will gift it to them.

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Speaker 1: I will, but I refuse to transact in this way.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to taint it. Don't take, don't ruin it. Jesse,

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Speaker 1: I love it. Well, let's kind of start talking about money,

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Speaker 1: not just the wood, but so unlike most folks, it

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Speaker 1: sounds like your parents actually had like a positive influence

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Speaker 1: on you when it comes to, uh, getting you started

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Speaker 1: down the path of personal finance. How is it that

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Speaker 1: you first started learning about money? So, I, uh, my

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Speaker 1: parents modeled it well. They modeled frugality well, I will say, um,

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Speaker 1: they were really good at just saying we don't have

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Speaker 1: money for that, we're not gonna spend money on it.

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Speaker 1: We we lived, I mean we were, you know, middle class,

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Speaker 1: but we lived below our means as far as I

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Speaker 1: could gather as a as a kid and kind of observe.

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Speaker 1: So they were just very, very frugal. I used to

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Speaker 1: think that the word vacation meant driving ten hours to

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Speaker 1: Grandma's house. I didn't know that there were other options

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Speaker 1: besides just driving up there and then literally one time,

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Speaker 1: starting to read the Encyclopedia at a I got to avocus.

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Speaker 1: I didn't make it very far, but like I just

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Speaker 1: boared on my vacation, so that, I mean, that's just

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Speaker 1: what we did and I didn't know any different, and

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Speaker 1: it was great and they were loving, and so you

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Speaker 1: can't complain at all. But one thing that that my

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Speaker 1: dad in particular did. I think I was fourteen, and

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Speaker 1: he said, hey, you should read these books. And so

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Speaker 1: he didn't just say I want to teach you about money.

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Speaker 1: He's just like, you might find these interesting. And he

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Speaker 1: gave me a couple. He gave me Ramsey's book that

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Speaker 1: was Financial Peace, and I think now The Total Money

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Speaker 1: Maker was kind of there, his more flagship book, but

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Speaker 1: Financial Peace was the one that I read. And Ramsey

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Speaker 1: taught me not to like debt at all, to hate

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Speaker 1: debt even as a fourteen year old, and I thought, okay,

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Speaker 1: that sounds good. And then he gave me The Millionaire

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Speaker 1: next Door, another great one to kind of learn like

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Speaker 1: it's not about what you see, but it's about what's

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Speaker 1: kind of under the covers a lot of the time.

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Speaker 1: And then the final one was the richest man in Babylon,

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Speaker 1: which is probably my favorite overall, just those principles approachable.

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Speaker 1: It's the same first one I would give, you know,

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Speaker 1: I give my kids when they are like, hey, I

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Speaker 1: want to learn something. I don't want to sit down

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Speaker 1: and teach him. I just want to say, well, here's

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Speaker 1: a book. And I think as a kid it's easier

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Speaker 1: to learn sometimes from someone else, and so I think

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Speaker 1: it was wise of my dad just to say, well, hey,

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Speaker 1: learn it from these you know, from these books, and um,

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Speaker 1: it formed a lot of my early opinions. Some of

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Speaker 1: them have developed over the years a little differently, but

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Speaker 1: it was early informative. And I am forever grateful that

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Speaker 1: I I had a disdain for debt early on and

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Speaker 1: avoided in college because of that, and that I saw

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Speaker 1: early on that I should start with start with investing

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Speaker 1: and get an early jump on it. So yeah, I

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Speaker 1: will be forever grateful for the to the authors of

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Speaker 1: those books and to my dad for giving them to me. Well,

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Speaker 1: you talk about modeling your parents, modeling the right behaviors,

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Speaker 1: but then not being the ones to necessarily preach it

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Speaker 1: at you, you know, over and over, and I think

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Speaker 1: that's really important because I think modeling goes the farthest.

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Speaker 1: Then let someone else do the preaching and maybe that's

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Speaker 1: the best combo. And it's interesting you mentioned your kids too.

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Speaker 1: You've got seven kids, which is uh as much as

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Speaker 1: Matt and I have to catch up. You need a

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Speaker 1: spreadsheet to run that many kids, right, you guys would

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Speaker 1: be fine? But yeah, well it's easier for us. I've

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Speaker 1: got family five, has got family six, but you got it.

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Speaker 1: You got a massive family. So how does that how

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Speaker 1: has that impacted your did that like make you feel

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Speaker 1: like you needed a budget? Obviously you started your journey

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Speaker 1: even before that, but you have you found it to

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Speaker 1: come in even more handy, haven't. I've been big of

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Speaker 1: a family. Well, honestly, the first the thing that made

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Speaker 1: me and my wife's name is Julie, that that made

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Speaker 1: us feel like we had to really be careful early

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Speaker 1: on was we were we were dirt poor, and we

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Speaker 1: were both in school and just eking by, and then

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Speaker 1: we were gonna get married. And so combining these meager

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Speaker 1: finances together it doesn't do any There's no synergy there.

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Speaker 1: You're just like, okay, now we both make I mean,

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Speaker 1: there was just no win and we were actually paying

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Speaker 1: more in rent than we would have been as single

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Speaker 1: kids anyway. So I'm just like, man, Julie, we gotta

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Speaker 1: be really careful. So we get married. I build this

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Speaker 1: little spreadsheet that later became wine Nop, but at the

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Speaker 1: time it was just for me and for Julian. We

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Speaker 1: start watching everything really close. But the thing that pushed

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Speaker 1: me to say, hey, maybe I could sell this spreadsheet

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Speaker 1: was it had worked for us for that year. We

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Speaker 1: were able to start saving money and then um, we

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Speaker 1: saw that a baby was coming. It was it was planned,

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Speaker 1: but we were still not making a lot of money,

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Speaker 1: like ten bucks, you know, eleven bucks an hour and

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Speaker 1: trying to get through school and so to have a

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Speaker 1: baby inbound, that was what made us think, Okay, we

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Speaker 1: gotta try and figure out some way to let Julie

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Speaker 1: exit the workforce, uh and have me be able to

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Speaker 1: try and balance maybe earning some side money and finishing

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Speaker 1: at school. So the push of of providing for kids, oh,

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Speaker 1: that was what gave us that that that drive, and

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Speaker 1: so I'm grateful for it. It's not fun in the moment,

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Speaker 1: but it does kind of squeeze the creativity out of

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Speaker 1: you at times. Kicking the pants nothing like another human

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Speaker 1: being being depended on your ability to manage your own

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Speaker 1: finances in order to provide for them. So that's certainly

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Speaker 1: can be that, like you said, you'll kick in the pants,

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Speaker 1: But like, what would you say, Jesse, to folks who

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Speaker 1: or otherwise than just repulsed by the idea of making

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Speaker 1: a budget? Essentially, I would love for you to maybe

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Speaker 1: make a case for budgets for those out there who

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Speaker 1: don't necessarily feel like it's something they need to do. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I I don't even like the word budget.

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Speaker 1: I wish that our company was named something really I

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Speaker 1: don't know, fancy, like it sounds like a perfume. Maybe

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Speaker 1: I don't know, something different. Because people they hear the

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Speaker 1: word budget and they think restriction, no more fun, diet um.

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Speaker 1: It's just like everything is just going to kind of

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Speaker 1: bear down on them, and maybe their their spouse or

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Speaker 1: significant other tells them, hey, we need a budget, and

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Speaker 1: then it's like double worse. It's like, Okay, not only

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Speaker 1: will be a budget, but you're going to be running

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Speaker 1: the budget and I'm gonna be the one that's making

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Speaker 1: all the mistakes and just nothing is good about it.

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Speaker 1: So a budget is really it's just a plan. And

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Speaker 1: all we really care about is that people are intentional

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Speaker 1: with their money, and that's it. That's the end of it.

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Speaker 1: We want people to love how they spend their money

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Speaker 1: instead of having their spending just stress them out, strain

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Speaker 1: their relationship, suck the fun out of everything. I mean,

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Speaker 1: people are so worried about a budget taking the fun

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Speaker 1: out of life, But they will go on vacation with

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Speaker 1: this like this low burn, like kind of simmer in

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Speaker 1: the back of their mind as they're racking up credit

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Speaker 1: card debt. They're just like, I know this isn't good.

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Speaker 1: I know this isn't good. And so I'm trying to say, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe try the thing where you save up for the

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Speaker 1: vacation and you actually get to spend money guilt free.

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Speaker 1: So a budget is just a plan, and it's it's

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Speaker 1: your plan and you get to make it however you want.

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Speaker 1: But if it means that if you have to do

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Speaker 1: a budget in order to have a pile of intention

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Speaker 1: kind of like rising up behind your money, then that's

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Speaker 1: that's what we want, and that's what we're going to

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Speaker 1: call it. Were you got. You gotta love how you

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Speaker 1: spend your money. If you feel guilty about it. There's

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Speaker 1: a problem, right, If you're arguing with your spouse, it

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Speaker 1: means there's a problem. And so we want to get

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Speaker 1: that spending lined up with your real priorities. And then man,

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Speaker 1: you're off to the races that that's when money becomes fun.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know, I can't imagine any other way.

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Speaker 1: So do we just rename you need a budget? Two?

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Speaker 1: You need a money plan, wineamp something like that, or

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Speaker 1: the can thing. I can you know, mystique or something

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Okay, all right, well, yeah, you let

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Speaker 1: me know when you're ready for that rebrand. I'm curious

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Speaker 1: to hear how cool water I think when it's the

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Speaker 1: middle school was a good one. Uh well, Jesse, some

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Speaker 1: folks in the financial independence community, they're just supernaturally frugal, right,

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Speaker 1: and so they would say, I am intentional with my money,

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Speaker 1: but I don't feel like I need the budget part.

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Speaker 1: And so based on what you just said, what would

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Speaker 1: you say to someone like that who says, like, I'm

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Speaker 1: handling things pretty well, I've got a huge gap between

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Speaker 1: incoming and outgoing um investing a lot for the future,

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Speaker 1: Like do I need to sit down and actually like

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Speaker 1: mess with the numbers every single month or every other week. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know, now they don't if if they're if you

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Speaker 1: have some massive gap between you know, money in and

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Speaker 1: money out, and the net worth keeps climbing even if

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Speaker 1: the markets doing what it's been doing, especially, then you're

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Speaker 1: good to go. You have a plan and the plan

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Speaker 1: is working because the score that we're keeping is net worth,

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Speaker 1: and especially I would say the score is how much

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Speaker 1: you are sending to your investment pile. Not so much

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Speaker 1: fluctuations in the market. You can't totally control that, but

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Speaker 1: the fact that you're you're you know, you've got a

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Speaker 1: big shovel and you're flinging tons of money over the

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Speaker 1: wall into that retirement bucket. It's you're winning. So I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't change a thing now for someone that's like, hey, Jesse,

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Speaker 1: um my net worth it's you know, I'm not really

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Speaker 1: saving a ton, but I know that I'm frugal. Then

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Speaker 1: I'd be like or they say, or they like, already

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Speaker 1: how much? Yeah, they I already know how much I spend.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, no, or I I I know that I

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Speaker 1: just I eke by anyway, So I already am tight.

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Speaker 1: I don't need to Look, that's all just ways of

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Speaker 1: saying like I don't really want to be aware, or

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Speaker 1: I'm actually unaware, or I think I'm aware and I'm not.

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Speaker 1: All those things we want to make sure we iron out.

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Speaker 1: So but for the person that like literally their money

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Speaker 1: just keeps growing and growing, Yeah, you hit it, You're

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Speaker 1: you're doing it. You just don't. You aren't super granular

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Speaker 1: in your plan for your spending, but you're you're nailing

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Speaker 1: it on those big, big movers, you know, those big goals.

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Speaker 1: Then yeah, you're you're good to go. I wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: you change a thing. I don't want to say those

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Speaker 1: people are unicorns, but they're not. It's just I'm not

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Speaker 1: worried my market's going to disappear by just you know, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's maybe one percent of the population that really

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Speaker 1: isn't that isn't that realm of managing their finances. But

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Speaker 1: I do think it's important to mention that that some

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Speaker 1: of those folks is exist and they might not need

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Speaker 1: a budget. In the same way that if I could

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Speaker 1: interject one more thing, um someone that's uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: Elon Bezos, these massively wealthy people, they still hopefully with

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Speaker 1: all of those resources hopefully are being extremely intentional with

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Speaker 1: all of that value that's there. So when when you

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Speaker 1: have something that's like I make tons Jesse, I don't

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Speaker 1: have to worry about it. I would kind of turn

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Speaker 1: around and say, listen, man, you you have been gifted this,

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Speaker 1: You've worked for it, however you want to say, this

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Speaker 1: came into your possession. You have something tremendously valuable in

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Speaker 1: this world. Let's not be so cavalier and so flippant

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Speaker 1: about the fact that you have this massively useful resources

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Speaker 1: that could potentially be, you know, deployed to have some

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Speaker 1: great effect in the world. And I'm not even meaning, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, shame on you for not giving it away.

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Speaker 1: There are plenty of charities that I'd be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that probably wasn't a great use of money, if you know, Like,

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Speaker 1: I'm no judge of that. But just let's take you

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Speaker 1: and make sure that all of your intention, all of

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Speaker 1: the best parts of you are Chamma behind that big

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Speaker 1: pile of money, and then it becomes something great and grand.

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Speaker 1: Let's not have it just be frittered away. So for

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Speaker 1: those that have a fantastic pile of resources, I think

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Speaker 1: it's incumbent on upon them even more so to be

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Speaker 1: really intentional, really thoughtful, careful about what they do with it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe that looks like a budget, but like you said,

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Speaker 1: it's it's having a plan. And I think even those

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Speaker 1: folks would be able to benefit from a plan because

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Speaker 1: you take a high reformer and you put them under

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Speaker 1: the direction of an amazing coach, and all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: they're doing stuff that they never thought was possible. Right,

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Speaker 1: if making millions came easy to them, we'll just think

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Speaker 1: what you could do otherwise. But I like what you

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Speaker 1: said to like from a at least from an investing standpoint,

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Speaker 1: they're they're kind of knocking it out of the park.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, one of the reasons that are one

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Speaker 1: of the ways I guess my wife and I were

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Speaker 1: able to Kate and I that we were able to

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Speaker 1: get on the same page just when it came to budgeting,

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Speaker 1: is because we saw it as a way essentially, as

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Speaker 1: a way for us to have some freedom in how

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Speaker 1: it is that we spend our money, because I think,

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Speaker 1: I mean, my natural tendency might be to not just

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Speaker 1: be frugal, but just to seriously deprive ourselves. And yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: we saw an ability for us too, Like you said,

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Speaker 1: be intentional with our money, but just we had the

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Speaker 1: freedom to then spend our money in the ways that

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Speaker 1: we said we wanted to. But maybe in practice we

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Speaker 1: found that to be harder. Moving it from the head

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Speaker 1: and what we said we're gonna do on paper into

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Speaker 1: reality for us was difficult. Yeah, absolutely, it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: liberating to have the plan allow you to do things.

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Speaker 1: It's weird because you set up the plan, you agreed

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Speaker 1: to it, you wrote it down a week before or whatever.

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Speaker 1: It's weird that we suddenly divorce ourselves from the plan

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Speaker 1: as if it's not us, but it is. But it

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Speaker 1: allows us to kind of push, like differ back to

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Speaker 1: it and say, well, what did the plans say I

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Speaker 1: could do all the plans that I could buy these

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Speaker 1: fantastically expensive boots that will last forever. And I say

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Speaker 1: that because it's a real example that I'm in the

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Speaker 1: market for, so splurge again. But I you know, it's like, Okay, this,

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Speaker 1: this would be really cool. I'm really excited about this.

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Speaker 1: But push came to shove. If the plan weren't telling

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Speaker 1: me that I actually could do it, I think I

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Speaker 1: would struggle with it because I'm just naturally wired to squeeze,

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Speaker 1: you know, squeeze those dollars. So I love that it

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Speaker 1: gives you the permission, like you give yourself the permission,

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Speaker 1: but in this indirect way that allows it to feel

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Speaker 1: a little more free flowing. Yeah. Again, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what percentage of the population those natural, ridiculously frugal people are.

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Speaker 1: I think Matt and I might both be those, and

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Speaker 1: and actually making a plan for our money has helped

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Speaker 1: us feel free to spend in the ways that we

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Speaker 1: otherwise would probably not do. And it's really it's helped

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Speaker 1: my marriage out because then I'm not like saying no

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Speaker 1: to everything, even though those are things we want to do.

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Speaker 1: But I guess, Jesse, I want to I want to

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Speaker 1: know more too about wine app and you talked about

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Speaker 1: kind of how it started with a spreadsheet that you

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Speaker 1: created just to be able to get by making very

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Speaker 1: very little money and to help your wife stay at home.

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Speaker 1: But how did it turn into a fintech company and

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Speaker 1: a wildly successful one. I mean, I saw at the

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Speaker 1: end of last year the Wall Street Journal said why

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Speaker 1: NAP was the best budgeting gap, Like, that's huge, that's like, yeah, so,

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Speaker 1: so how did it? How did you get to that point? Uh? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, almost twenty years in you get the Washer

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Speaker 1: Journal to write about it, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: So it's like, yeah, like that would have helped a lot.

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Speaker 1: But I've always loved the topic. I've always loved teaching

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Speaker 1: people about it, and I am a teacher at heart,

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Speaker 1: and so we've always had the model. Now, the software,

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Speaker 1: the spreadsheet has been long gone as of like I think,

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Speaker 1: oh six or something, but then we had some really

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Speaker 1: um you know, some great software that you would download

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Speaker 1: and install and paste a license keeper people that grew

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Speaker 1: up without apps and whatnot. But then the apps came along,

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Speaker 1: and now the web app and so it just keeps.

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Speaker 1: The software keeps kind of hopefully keeping pace with what

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Speaker 1: technology is allowing us to do. But the method behind

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Speaker 1: it has has always been kind of like the special juice,

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Speaker 1: the thing that makes it work. So we always say

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Speaker 1: that the software is second fiddle to the method, to

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Speaker 1: the thinking. And if someone can take what we teach

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Speaker 1: method wise, these four rules, and I'm sure we'll get

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Speaker 1: into later, but if they can take that and run

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Speaker 1: with it, no matter how they implement it, it'll work

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Speaker 1: really really well because the method works very very well,

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Speaker 1: even though the technology has changed. There are four rules

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Speaker 1: in particular that you wrote down a long time ago.

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna talk about those rules. We're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: about them in stone tablets. Actually, we're gonna talk about

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Speaker 1: maybe some just general budgeting strategy as well. We'll get

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Speaker 1: to all of that right after this break. All right,

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Speaker 1: let's keep rolling. Let's talk about budgeting like a beast.

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Speaker 1: We're still talking with Jesse Mecum And if there's Matt

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Speaker 1: anybody to cover this topic well with us, it is Jesse.

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Speaker 1: It's the guy that's a woodworker who's saving up for

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Speaker 1: some nice leather boots to wearing his woodshot exactly. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to don't want to puncture those toes. It's

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Speaker 1: like some mistake happens or anything like that. But Jesse,

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Speaker 1: you talked about the four rules. You're alluded to them

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Speaker 1: before the break, but that's where everything starts, when it

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Speaker 1: comes to the wine app software. Can you give us

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Speaker 1: an overview of those four rules and why you think

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Speaker 1: that that's kind of the revolutionary, like Matt said, secret

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Speaker 1: sauce to making budgeting work for people. Yeah, So I

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Speaker 1: mean we I have mentioned earlier that we want people

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Speaker 1: to love how they spend their money, and spending is

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Speaker 1: just decision making at the end of the day, and

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Speaker 1: people try and dress it up and make it some

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Speaker 1: other thing. That money is different, but it is just decisions.

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Speaker 1: And the method that Wine teaches is four rules that's

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Speaker 1: essentially just to help you make better decisions. So our

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Speaker 1: first rule, we call it giving every dollar a job.

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Speaker 1: And what that means is, if you decide to spend

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Speaker 1: money on you know, tool A, you can't spend money

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Speaker 1: on tool B. If you decide to go out for sushi,

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Speaker 1: you maybe can't also go out for you know, drinks

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Speaker 1: another day. It's that if I spend here, I maybe

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Speaker 1: can't spend over there. And it's the it's acknowledging that

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Speaker 1: we have finite resources. And while while finance capital left large,

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Speaker 1: industry wants you to feel like you have infinite resources

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Speaker 1: and you can spend and swipe and buy now, pay

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Speaker 1: later and all that stuff. They want you to feel

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Speaker 1: like you never run out, but you have to acknowledge

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Speaker 1: that you run out because that helps you crystallize what

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Speaker 1: your priorities are and start to make better decisions. So

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Speaker 1: when you operate with a zero based budget, whether it's

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Speaker 1: with wine app or any number of other tools that

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Speaker 1: do that, it's that idea of it's finite. So with

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Speaker 1: that in place, you're now weighing your priorities and good

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Speaker 1: decisions come from that. We then moved to rule two,

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Speaker 1: where we call it embracing your true expenses, and essentially

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Speaker 1: that's looking ahead and thinking about large or less frequent

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Speaker 1: expenses and then dividing those up into more manageable monthly amounts.

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Speaker 1: So I mentioned sushi. It's kind of like me saying,

426
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,120
Speaker 1: all right, I want to go to sushi today, but

427
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:51,520
Speaker 1: also I'm looking at Christmas that just happened, and I'm saying, oh, well,

428
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,879
Speaker 1: Christmas is in twelve months or whatever. Is this gonna work?

429
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,440
Speaker 1: Is Christmas and sushi today going to work? And people

430
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,600
Speaker 1: don't make they don't do that kind of calculus. Or

431
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:03,800
Speaker 1: it's a lot like if you're standing, like I don't know,

432
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,040
Speaker 1: in the tire store or something, and you're tire just

433
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,000
Speaker 1: blue and the guys there and he's like, okay, the

434
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 1: four tires are gonna be let's let's pray that's they're

435
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,359
Speaker 1: only like eight hundred bucks, right, the four tires are

436
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,720
Speaker 1: gonna be eight hundred dollars, and you have the money

437
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,440
Speaker 1: for the four tires. So you're like, man, I'm feeling good.

438
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,800
Speaker 1: But it's like a pizza delivery guy walks into and

439
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,159
Speaker 1: he's just like, Jesse, I know those tires, your eight hundred,

440
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 1: and you have the eight hundred, but don't you want

441
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:30,840
Speaker 1: to spend a hundred bucks on pizza for your kids

442
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,960
Speaker 1: and their friends and maybe they're friends and just have some.

443
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:38,880
Speaker 1: And you're like, uh no, I absolutely do not want

444
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:40,680
Speaker 1: to do that, not because of all the kids in

445
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,040
Speaker 1: the house, but because I want to pay for the tires.

446
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,440
Speaker 1: And so it's this interesting situation where with rule one,

447
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:52,200
Speaker 1: we're prioritizing and with rule two, we're prioritizing with future

448
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:57,240
Speaker 1: priorities and current priorities, and they're getting equal footing during

449
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 1: our decision making process. So Fae, my my youngest daughter,

450
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,120
Speaker 1: I have to refer to my spreadsheet to make sure

451
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 1: I get that straight. But you know Faye, my youngest daughter,

452
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 1: she she's like, Okay, I want to say about for

453
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,639
Speaker 1: this Christmas gift for Faye, and I also want to

454
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 1: buy this thing right now. And suddenly you have a

455
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 1: really interesting prioritization. That's happening. Now do I sit there,

456
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 1: I'm always like, oh, am I going to take a

457
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 1: gift from face Christmas? No, of course not. But as

458
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,200
Speaker 1: you're doing the decisions, you are. And so this idea

459
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:30,240
Speaker 1: of future you and current you and then future Julie

460
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,159
Speaker 1: and current Julie, we're all sitting at the table, you know,

461
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,920
Speaker 1: table together negotiating and there's one that's like I want

462
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,719
Speaker 1: money for tires, and other ones like I want pizza tonight,

463
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 1: and we're weighing that. So between rule one and rule two,

464
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: decision making starts to really improve. I'll pause there just

465
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 1: in case you guys have questions. But I'm like an

466
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,119
Speaker 1: Automa town. If you put a quarter in me or

467
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 1: ask me about the four rules, I just kind of

468
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 1: go So I get, yeah, let's go ahead and jump

469
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,200
Speaker 1: in here before you move on with the additional rules,

470
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 1: because you know, when you talk about giving every dollar

471
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,360
Speaker 1: a job like, it makes me think about just budgeting

472
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 1: in general. Right, Like, if if we asked you to

473
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 1: define the word budget, I'm curious to hear what you

474
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 1: would say, because you know, you did say a plan earlier,

475
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,919
Speaker 1: but it seems like at the heart of budgeting is

476
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 1: the first rule, giving every dollar a job where you

477
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 1: are just being intentional when it comes to like you said,

478
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,160
Speaker 1: the decisions that you're making, is does that seem accurate? Yeah?

479
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 1: I think I would say if I were to define

480
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,639
Speaker 1: I've never done this before, perhaps, but if I were

481
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,439
Speaker 1: to define it off the cuff, a budget is a

482
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:30,399
Speaker 1: plan attached to finite resources given a specific time frame

483
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,119
Speaker 1: as well, you know, when it comes to racing this

484
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 1: true expenses, because I think a big part of those

485
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 1: those true expenses is the fact that I think there's

486
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 1: so much in our life that feels urgent, that seems urgent,

487
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 1: and so oftentimes we're just looking to whatever pops up

488
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 1: in front of us and we think, oh, okay, that

489
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 1: is now something I have to tackle, That's something we

490
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 1: have to spend money on, And it's just about it's

491
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 1: almost about getting in front of that a little bit

492
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,680
Speaker 1: and knowing that it's on its way. As opposed to

493
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 1: you just reacting to something passively. It's proactively managing those

494
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 1: expectation is absolutely to the pike. Yeah, absolutely, it is.

495
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 1: It is completely and totally proactive. You know, if you

496
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: manage your day the way you manage your money. I'm

497
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 1: speaking to that. Don't do it well, um, you you'd

498
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 1: be a wreck. You know, you're a train wreck. You're

499
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 1: just reacting to everything that comes along. At the end

500
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 1: of the day, you're always like, well, jeez, I didn't

501
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 1: get the important thing done. That happens with with people's

502
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,880
Speaker 1: money all the time. They're just like we managed time.

503
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 1: We're just trying to manage another finite resource that also

504
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 1: can essentially travel through time, and we're looking at how

505
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: our future will look. How are you know the current

506
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 1: environment looks, and we're trying to weigh that together. It's

507
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 1: it's interesting to do it this way because what we

508
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,880
Speaker 1: want people to get in there kind of in practice

509
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,959
Speaker 1: is not that budgeting is where you're forecasting your income.

510
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 1: You're saying, I will learn this, I will learn this.

511
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 1: We tie it back to the finiteness of their money,

512
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,160
Speaker 1: and we say, how much is in your checking account

513
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: right now? Okay, what do you want that money to

514
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: do before you're paid again? And that question whether you're

515
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 1: making a d grand, year, three grand, fifty grand, doesn't matter.

516
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 1: That question and starts to push on the priorities and

517
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: starts to force the decisions. So then you can say well, okay,

518
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 1: I've got all these current needs, but then we get

519
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 1: future you to come to the table. Also, it's like, well,

520
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 1: you know what about in three months when you wanted

521
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: to go on vacation. You know, do you do you

522
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: want to throw some money there. So it's more about

523
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 1: allocating not just for now, but also almost like you're

524
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: allocating to these different jobs along a timeline, and in

525
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 1: that way you can be be really ready for the future.

526
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 1: It's funny too, because people mentioned when they've started using

527
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: wine up for they've used it for a while, they

528
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:36,160
Speaker 1: stop needing the traditional kind of personal finance emergency fund

529
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 1: because they're finding that they are having fewer emergencies. Because

530
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 1: the car tires that wear out, that is an emergency

531
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 1: only if you don't have the money. But if you

532
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: do have the money, it's no emergency at all. Or

533
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: if the h v a C goes out or property

534
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 1: taxes are due, it's whenever we have the money. We

535
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 1: never label it an emergency. We're just like, well, now,

536
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,400
Speaker 1: if physical harm is you know, if there's a fire, okay, yeah,

537
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 1: that's an emergency physical harm. But when there when the

538
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: financial ramification can be handled by cash on hand, we're

539
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 1: pretty resident reticent to say like, oh, yeah, that was

540
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 1: an emergency. Oh no, no no, it really wasn't you know

541
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: that you have the money. Yeah, we're planning ahead for

542
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 1: some of those known irregular expenses to like car tires, right,

543
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: that's I don't know, every fifty sixty miles you're gonna

544
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 1: need new new tires, and so that's something you can

545
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: kind of start to plan ahead for. Or a new roof.

546
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: You know, the timeline of a roof is twenty five years,

547
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: but you can see if your roof is starting to

548
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 1: get decrepit. It's not typically this massive unknown I need

549
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 1: a full roof replacement and I had no idea what

550
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: was coming. And some of those things that we we

551
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: like to categorize as an emergency, but it's usually just

552
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: a lack of preparational, lack of planning and okay, but

553
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: I want to knowe to Like the one of the

554
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: things that we get questions on a lot, and we

555
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 1: try to answer the best we can is for folks

556
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 1: who are paid irregularly, right, folks who work for themselves,

557
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 1: they run their own business, or they're a contractor, Like,

558
00:26:55,920 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: how should they think about budgeting when they're not sure

559
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: how much money is coming in month to month, whereas

560
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 1: the person gets paid every two weeks. It's it's so

561
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 1: much easier to know exactly how much you're gonna have

562
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 1: on hand. So never ever, ever budget with money that

563
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 1: you don't have on hand. Never forecast. Now, if you

564
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 1: want to dream and kind of plan big and start

565
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 1: to say, like, oh, what would it be like if

566
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: I landed these three other clients and I sold these

567
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 1: three houses or whatever. Yeah, you want to do that

568
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 1: kind of big picture planning and dreaming, that's cool. But

569
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: when it comes to decision making about your spending, you

570
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 1: only ever talk about money that is in the account,

571
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 1: not that you're going to get that is there already.

572
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: So for a variable income person, there's there's that rule

573
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 1: is number one, do not plan with money that you

574
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,679
Speaker 1: do not have in hand. That's that's the first. The

575
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: second rule is, because your income is variable, you have

576
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 1: to build more buffer. And that's kind of jumping to

577
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 1: rule four, but you have to essentially build more runway

578
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: for yourself, just more breathing room to allow yourself to

579
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: roll with the fact that it's it's not you know

580
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,640
Speaker 1: that it is irregular. Um and I I can. I mean,

581
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,439
Speaker 1: I've been down that road for a years, you know,

582
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,199
Speaker 1: years and years where we had a very variable income,

583
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 1: and it just is what it is. So only ever

584
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 1: plan with money you have and build more buffer than

585
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 1: your friend that's paid every two weeks by the city,

586
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,199
Speaker 1: you know, and that's just that's just your reality. But

587
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,919
Speaker 1: once you do that and you start looking to the

588
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,159
Speaker 1: future with rule two, and when there are flush months

589
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 1: because variable income, a lot of times people are like, oh,

590
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 1: variable income is tricky, because when I don't have any money,

591
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 1: I'm I have a problem. They never mentioned how they

592
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: had a lot of money two weeks ago, you know,

593
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: And so it is just up and down, up and down.

594
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: And so when you are flush, when you are like,

595
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, honey, we are rich, your first thought is,

596
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: let's celebrate. We landed the big deal. Let's celebrate. And

597
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: yet cool do celebrate, but also recognize they're going to

598
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: be some lean times and do a little bit of

599
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: like Joseph and Egypt where it's like seven years feast

600
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: and famine, and start to look ahead and say, well,

601
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna fund half of our mortgage

602
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: for a month from now, and then three months later

603
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: you're like, I'm going to fund the rest of our

604
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: mortgage for next month, and I might fund half of

605
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: our mortgage for two months out. And we'll get people

606
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: that are running wine app that are on very extremely

607
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: variable incomes that have funded their kind of their core

608
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: you know, must have fixed expenses. They've funded them three,

609
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: four or five months out because they know that there

610
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: there can be some lean times. But and I'll just

611
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 1: add one little thing just to pitch for this. When

612
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: you are operating on a variable income and you've eliminated

613
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: the variability in your stress level tied to it life changing, well,

614
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: you think that the biggest reason to make this plan,

615
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: Like is there anything better? Is? Yeah, we want people

616
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: to get their money together. We want them to be

617
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 1: confident and how they handle their money. But the biggest

618
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: problem when you're not confident with how you hand your

619
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:00,959
Speaker 1: money and you are living paycheck to atcheck is the stress.

620
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: The rain cloud of stress that hangs over you every

621
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: single day and it's weighing you down. Yeah, and it

622
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 1: makes your decision making in your business and elsewhere. It

623
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 1: really has a negative effect on it. You start to

624
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: be really um, you react really quickly, um, you take

625
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: clients that you actually don't want. Um, you don't stop

626
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: jobs that you hate that are low profit because you're

627
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 1: just taking anything you can and we want you to

628
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 1: be choosy, We want you to be really selective. We

629
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: want to be making the best decision for you and

630
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: your whole life, and all of that starts to kind

631
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 1: of be hurt when we're just so stressed out and

632
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 1: so reactive. So those two rules fixed variable income. You

633
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: kind of alluded to this, but we can We'll give

634
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: you a chance to get back to rules three and four,

635
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: but we kind of touched on how that variable income

636
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: having more cash in hand. That that's rule four of

637
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: the four rules, right, Like you're talking about aging your money,

638
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: you're about you're talking about, like you said, only spending

639
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: money that you have on hand, and in some ways,

640
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 1: like when it comes to that variable income, you're kind

641
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: of like pushing that money off into the few. Yes,

642
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's money that you're you're you're marking

643
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 1: for future purchases, like you said, must have things like

644
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: a mortgage, paying for food. So we kind of covered four.

645
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: What's the third rule that you think is important for

646
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: folks to keep in mind? In order to have a

647
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: successful budget. Yeah, and remember we're talking about really good

648
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 1: decision making. It's just a decision making framework to make

649
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: sure that spending lines up with priorities. And that's where

650
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: the magic happens. So if we're giving every dollar a job,

651
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 1: and we're also looking ahead to future dollars, and we're

652
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: giving those jobs and we're weighing our priorities. The third rule,

653
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: it's interesting that we have to have it be a rule,

654
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 1: but we call it rolling with the punches, and it's

655
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 1: essentially saying, uh, be flexible, change your mind if you

656
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: need to as new information comes in, change the plan

657
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: you would alluded to, like a coach that can really

658
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: capitalize on someone with a lot of great raw talent.

659
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: And there's also the coach that has a really solid

660
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: game plan. And then as soon as the ball is

661
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: hiked or the tip off happens or whatever it is,

662
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: as soon as that happens, the coaches making adjust ones

663
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: and you're seeing how your opponent is reacting to your plan,

664
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: and you're reacting to that plan. And it's this big

665
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: game of chess, which is another great example of reacting

666
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: and acting. And so we want the plan that you've

667
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: set in place this budget, we want you to be flexible.

668
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: Rigid budgets break, and flexible budgets last a long long time.

669
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: Too many people, first of all, they've never budgeted before,

670
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: and so they think that they're just going to suddenly

671
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: be this like wunda kint, that's gonna be like, oh

672
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 1: I got this nailed and you don't. So you want

673
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: to give yourself lots of grace. And when we talk

674
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: about being flexible, give yourself the flexibility to say like,

675
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: oh I thought I wanted to do this with my money,

676
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: but then my friend called me and they said, hey,

677
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 1: should you know, do you want to come out to eat?

678
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: And you're like, yes, I do. So reallocate some money,

679
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: shift things around, change your priorities a little bit. You're

680
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: you're good to go. You know. It's like you're planning

681
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: a beach day and then it starts to rain and

682
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: you think vacations don't work. You know, we don't like no,

683
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: it's just that it's raining. So you just make some

684
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: adjustments and keep rolling. Yeah, okay, so quick follow up here.

685
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: Would you recommend for folks to revisit their budget every

686
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: single month and make small tweaks is this like a

687
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: quarterly thing. I say this because I recently my wife

688
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: and I had are big end of the year sort

689
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: of meeting where we look back on it. Yeah, we

690
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: look back at the past year when we know we

691
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: make some of these larger changes. But yeah, I'd be

692
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: curious to hear your thoughts on making these adjustments, how

693
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: often they should be and to what extent. So it

694
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: depending on how much progress you are trying to make

695
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: and how much room you have between how much you

696
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: spend and how much you make. So if you have

697
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: a lot of room in there, then you don't need

698
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: to be quite as engaged. You don't need to be

699
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: you may it's still still may serve you well. But

700
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: as people are really trying to transform their finances, maybey're

701
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: trying to get out of debt, They're trying to reach

702
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: some financial goals, and maybe not in the same spot

703
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 1: you all are or your listeners are. They need to

704
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: be actively in their budget. I mean a lot of

705
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: people like to at least weakly sit down and say, okay,

706
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 1: where are we at. But when someone is first starting,

707
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: just be be in the budget every day. Replace Instagram

708
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: with scrolling through your categories and being like this looks good.

709
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 1: This looks good, And when you're about to spend money,

710
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:10,879
Speaker 1: you want to look at the app and say, well,

711
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: can I spend the money here? And if you can

712
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 1: spend it joyfully, no guilt recorded, or the bank, maybe

713
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: we'll send you the transaction we hook up at the

714
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 1: bank or whatever. But at the end of the day,

715
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: you want to be actively always kind of reallocating based

716
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: on how the spending is shaping up. As you get

717
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 1: more wiggle room in the budget, this becomes less necessary.

718
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: But if you are trying to make real, meaningful progress

719
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: with your finances, which means real behavior change, the more

720
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 1: frequently you are in the app kind of exercising a

721
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 1: muscle that's been dormant for a long time, the better

722
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: results you'll get. Yeah, that makes sense. It's like the

723
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: longer you've been doing anything, the better you get at it,

724
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: the less intense you have to be about focusing on it. Um,

725
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:53,280
Speaker 1: I want to ask you to You just mentioned scrolling

726
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 1: on Instagram, which is a problem for a lot of people.

727
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: When it comes to that could be like a budget

728
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 1: buster in their lives. The rise of buy now, pay later,

729
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: or someth thing that we have talked about a lot

730
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: on the show We Hate Its start getting ads for

731
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: nice boots now they just get them, Go get them, guys.

732
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 1: It's going to spend some of the money on this stuff.

733
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 1: So so it feels like everything around us is conspiring,

734
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 1: leading us towards making worst decisions, towards money outflowing. Do

735
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: you do you feel like it's harder for folks to

736
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 1: resist impulse spending these days, and do you feel like

737
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,320
Speaker 1: that's part of what's leading leading to like an inability

738
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: for folks to budget and to to come up with

739
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 1: a good plan for themselves. Yeah, it absolutely is. It's

740
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: uh And I don't like um framing it as like

741
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: you're you know, you're a victim of the the man,

742
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 1: the system is out to get you. At the end

743
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: of the day, I have to side on the on

744
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: the side of take responsibility, take action. You can control

745
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 1: your situation. You can change, because anything else would be

746
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 1: a disservice to a person that desires change. Right, Um,

747
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 1: so you can change, you can do this now. Conspire

748
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: ring though, I love that word because I mean I'm

749
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 1: a profit seeking business owner just like everyone else, and

750
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 1: all of these all this financialization of everything is for

751
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 1: profit and you can say it's good or evil or

752
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,919
Speaker 1: whatever you want, but it just is. So knowing that

753
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 1: they're kind of out to get you does help you

754
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 1: maybe feel a little bit of motivation to be like,

755
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 1: oh no, you don't and a little bit of like

756
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 1: some gumption that might come along. So that could be helpful.

757
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: But you also want to make sure that when you

758
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: do want to spend the money, that you enjoy it.

759
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 1: So I don't want to I don't want people to

760
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: to associate spending as bad. It's not. It's just spending

761
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: when it's out of alignment with what you really want.

762
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,240
Speaker 1: That's that's where we don't want to have all them misses.

763
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 1: And again that's where the craft beer equivalent for us,

764
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 1: that's something we talk about all the time on the sea.

765
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: That is something we hammer home, like find the things

766
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 1: that do move the needle for you, because there are

767
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 1: there's there's a lot of deprivation mentality in the personal

768
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: finance space and we don't want to contribute to that. Jessie,

769
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: I'd love to hear your thoughts on lifestyle creep as well,

770
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: because like, as individuals make more money, like I think

771
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 1: it's it's fine to use some of that to like

772
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: give some folks more breathing room to spend to maybe

773
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 1: not have to revisit their budget quite as often. But

774
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 1: it can also be a slippery slope, right, And so like,

775
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: how do you want people to react, say, when they

776
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:23,839
Speaker 1: get a pay raise, when they see their income go up?

777
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 1: How would you encourage folks going back to a word

778
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 1: that you've already said, prioritize how it is that they spend. Yeah,

779
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 1: I wish I had a better answer for this. It's

780
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: no different like if you get double the money all

781
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: of a sudden, you just got a sweet raise, I

782
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 1: mean awesome high five, Like, let's this is awesome, you know,

783
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 1: so you just gotta go back and say, okay, how

784
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 1: much you know, what does this money need to do

785
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: before I'm paid again? And now you have more money,

786
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,280
Speaker 1: and so you think, well, what does this this money

787
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 1: need to do before I'm paid again. I don't like

788
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: the phrase lifestyle creep. I used to use it all

789
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 1: the time. It's one of those things I mentioned early

790
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: on where I was like, oh, you know, you should

791
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,359
Speaker 1: just always be ending less, And lifestyle creep makes it

792
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 1: sound like it's snuck up on you. Um, it just

793
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 1: kind of like it sounds creepy and that seems negative,

794
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 1: so um, I don't like anything about it. I think

795
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: when people are talking about lifestyle creep they're really talking

796
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:20,399
Speaker 1: about the the slow, almost imperceptible misalignment of spending and priorities.

797
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,839
Speaker 1: And with that, I'm like, I'm on it, like, yes,

798
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 1: let's get rid of that. But if you're saying, hey, Jesse,

799
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: you make I don't know how much more than when

800
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,280
Speaker 1: Julie and I when we first started wineap I mean, gosh,

801
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: I don't even know, guys, ten twenty thirty times more.

802
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,320
Speaker 1: I mean, it's in some insane amount. Are you saying

803
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,720
Speaker 1: that I still should be living in the same basement

804
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 1: apartment that gave us respiratory issues the whole time? You know?

805
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 1: And it's like, well, no, no, that's okay, you know,

806
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: but we just don't want life. It's like, when is

807
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 1: that line drawn? Well, I'm not going to draw the

808
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,399
Speaker 1: line for your listeners or for you guys, and it's

809
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 1: up to everyone too, especially when you're sharing finances YouTube

810
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,760
Speaker 1: hand in hand. You know, you grab the sharpie. Actually

811
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,919
Speaker 1: it's not a sharpie, it's some in erasable and you

812
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 1: draw the line together, and then you recognize that you're

813
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,320
Speaker 1: going to revisit it regularly every year. I promote the

814
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: idea of a budget burned down, meaning you just you

815
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 1: drop all assumptions. It's like, should we have health insurance?

816
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 1: Should we not? You know, of course, get get catastrophic

817
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 1: health insurance? Should we rent or should we buy? Should

818
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 1: we have five roommates or should we get rid of

819
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 1: our five roommates? Should we get rid of all of

820
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 1: our cars? I mean, just burned down every single assumption

821
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: to kind of start fresh. And it's a way to

822
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: make sure that this lifestyle creep or misallignment of priorities

823
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 1: and spending hasn't happened to you. I mean it will

824
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 1: have happened, like it happens to all of us all

825
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 1: the time. It allows you to rethink what you truly love.

826
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 1: And we trually want to spend money on right because

827
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: we get used to doing things and we that we

828
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,879
Speaker 1: continue those things in perpetuity. And we might say, wait

829
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 1: a second, the second car doesn't matter to us anymore,

830
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: but the trip to Europe does, and so I want

831
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: to strip that out. And that's a big, massive change,

832
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 1: but probably in reality, the same amount of money that

833
00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 1: you're gonna spend in a year. So I think that's

834
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: a really yeah, really cool concept. Yeah, Jesse, I want

835
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: to hear your updated thoughts on debt because you just

836
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 1: talked about how some you talked about at the beginning

837
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 1: about reading Dave Ramsey and how maybe that influence your

838
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: view of debt. But I wonder if that's changed. Well,

839
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: we'll get to a couple of questions on that with

840
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:24,479
Speaker 1: Jesse Meekom right after this. All right, we are back.

841
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: We are talking about just the different ways that you

842
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 1: can budget, the different strategies that take, whether or not

843
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 1: you are using a specific software or not. Uh, and Jesse,

844
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 1: just before the raik Joel brought up debt, let's let's

845
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 1: talk about that. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on

846
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 1: credit cards specifically, right just because I mean, you know

847
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: you're massively pro budget. Does that mean you are anti

848
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 1: credit card? What is the what's the widenab approach to

849
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 1: credit cards? So, um, I'll start with the wine I've approach. First.

850
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 1: We are agnostic as to the spending instrument you use. Now,

851
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 1: that means that we done our best in the software

852
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 1: to create a system where a credit card acts like

853
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 1: cash because we've talked a lot about finite resources and

854
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: a credit card lets you not acknowledge finite resources. And

855
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 1: people can say all they want about well, I do

856
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 1: this and I always pay it off. But at the

857
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: end of the day, you are spending money and it's

858
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: not money you have. Now you can say, oh no,

859
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: it's in the checking account, but the cash has not

860
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 1: left your system yet, so you just straight up that's

861
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 1: how it is. Now. What we've done in wine app

862
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: is tried to make it act like cash, where if

863
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: you spend on the credit card, let's say hundred bucks

864
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 1: for groceries, Um, no cash left your system, but we

865
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: take a hundred dollars from your grocery category and we

866
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 1: move it to your credit card payment category, so that

867
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 1: when that you know, when the credit cards do or

868
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:52,879
Speaker 1: whatever it's on auto pay, if you're doing it, well,

869
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 1: it's just the cash is there. So we've done our

870
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:59,280
Speaker 1: best to say, hey, this, this is, this is like cash.

871
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 1: Treat it like now. If someone's coming off of a

872
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 1: lot of credit card problems, I say, just don't use

873
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 1: them for a while, like, hey, that though they bit

874
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: you already, Like let's not let's not mess with those

875
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: for a while. They are more complicated than just swiping

876
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 1: with a card and having money go out. Um, this

877
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:19,399
Speaker 1: psychological element, absolutely, the reconciliation is more complicated. The bank

878
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 1: transactions come in and do weird things. Sometimes a refund

879
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,240
Speaker 1: will hit and it hit from it hit two months before,

880
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:27,399
Speaker 1: and you'll see the refund go back, and so you'll

881
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 1: be sitting there with your software like what happened. It

882
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 1: makes it more complicated. That's bit me in the past.

883
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: So I say that all to be like, we're trying

884
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 1: to get the credit card to not be a credit

885
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: card in our system, which is funny, which just tells

886
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: you how negative they really are because we're trying to

887
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 1: I don't know whatever the opposite of negate is this

888
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 1: negative thing. And um, that's just it's telling my personal

889
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 1: experiment this year, and this is this is early days.

890
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 1: But I, um, I didn't cut our credit card or

891
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,359
Speaker 1: whatever I threw in a drawer, but I moved all

892
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:03,800
Speaker 1: of our spending off of what was basically our primary

893
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,880
Speaker 1: spending card. For Julian, I'm and we are using our

894
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 1: debit cards. My theory, my theory, and I don't care

895
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:13,399
Speaker 1: about the rewards of the points like, there's one way

896
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,839
Speaker 1: to tell there's a little bit of a diversion. There's

897
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 1: one way to tell if banks like the rewards or

898
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,760
Speaker 1: don't like the rewards, and it's that they keep pushing

899
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: the rewards. So the fact that they exist, they exist.

900
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 1: They exist, and the banks are wildly profitable institutions. So

901
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 1: you can say, oh, Jesse, I'm not a sucker. I

902
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 1: don't pay those rewards, but they still get paid every

903
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,879
Speaker 1: time you swipe. Every time you swipe, a bank get

904
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 1: a banker gets its wings or whatever. However that goes right.

905
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,720
Speaker 1: So when when you swipe, you are giving the bank

906
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 1: money because they get a cut. They get a little cut.

907
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 1: And there are a few people that there's a processor

908
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 1: that gets a cut. There's a gateway that gets a cut,

909
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:55,720
Speaker 1: and there's a bank that gets a cut, and sometimes

910
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 1: there's another bank that gets a cut, like the issuer

911
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 1: and then the holder. There's are there's weird words word

912
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: but like so many people have their fingers in this pie.

913
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 1: That's these transaction fees that we all pay that the

914
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: merchant pays on our behalf that we all end up

915
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: paying because the merchant's paying it, right, if if you

916
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 1: assume that you're in a fairly competitive market, so in

917
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 1: that instance where we are paying it, so when someone

918
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:18,879
Speaker 1: says when I get one percent back, well the bank

919
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 1: got more than one percent for you swiping, so there's

920
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 1: still totally okay with this. So that's one way to

921
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: view it, is just like, oh, maybe I maybe that

922
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: the banks are okay with this, not just okay, but

923
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 1: that they love it. So that's one thing. The other

924
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: thing you could do is say, well, who pays for

925
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 1: all these rewards? If it's not me, well, it's someone

926
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 1: that's paying late fees and interest. And so you might

927
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 1: approach it from an altruistic sense, which, honestly, to be

928
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 1: totally frank, it doesn't like move me. I'm just like,

929
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do this because I don't want someone else

930
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: to have to pay for my reward. It doesn't. But

931
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people that for whom that

932
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:57,399
Speaker 1: really is the moving factor, and they just say no, altruistically,

933
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 1: I don't want someone else that's struggling to be paying

934
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 1: my reward fees also an interesting view. There's a third

935
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 1: view that I'm curious about from my year of experiment,

936
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 1: and that is we've always talked about how a credit

937
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 1: card is handled in wine app as if it's a

938
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 1: debit card, as if it's just cash. So we kind

939
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 1: of feel good about it. And so we're like, whenever

940
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 1: you want something, you just will adjust the budget to

941
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: make sure it happens. And if you're using a credit

942
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 1: card or not, it's fine, but you're always kind of saying,

943
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: I want something, I make the budget allow me to

944
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 1: have that thing done. My theory is that the credit

945
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: card specifically might be upstream and be actually affecting our wants.

946
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: And this is early for me, so I'm gonna I'm

947
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 1: putting myself out there in this way not fully formed thoughts.

948
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:44,360
Speaker 1: But if the credit card, if the use of a

949
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,800
Speaker 1: credit card actually affects your wants center like your dopamine

950
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 1: hit center, and there's good research to say that it does,

951
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 1: then it's actually affecting your wants, and then you're forcing

952
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:57,840
Speaker 1: your plan to adjust to this newly influenced want that

953
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 1: came about because of credit card usage. So man, that's

954
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:03,400
Speaker 1: like another level level deeper right there. Yeah, And so

955
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:05,799
Speaker 1: I'm just curious about it. So I'll be back next

956
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 1: year or whatever, and I'll let you guys know that

957
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 1: I'm like filthy rich now because I don't use it.

958
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 1: You just you know that's not gonna be the case.

959
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:14,319
Speaker 1: But I will say one other one other win is

960
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 1: it's far simpler. It's just far simpler. Just to have

961
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 1: one instrument that you use. Fraud protection on debit cards

962
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 1: is as good as it's ever been. So I don't

963
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 1: that one really doesn't hold water anymore like it did,

964
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 1: you know fifteen years ago. Well, you know the points guy,

965
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 1: if he was to talk to you, Jesse, he'd be like,

966
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:30,840
Speaker 1: I guess you don't want that free trip to Tahiti, bro, Like,

967
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: what's your problem? You are telling? Well, you're talking to

968
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:36,800
Speaker 1: a guy that has literally millions of points because because

969
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 1: we spend in the business where we know in business

970
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:42,240
Speaker 1: you don't even you can't even have corporate spending without

971
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 1: it being on a some kind of a credit system.

972
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 1: And so even if you try and avoid it, you

973
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 1: you almost can't. It's like built into all of your

974
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 1: corporate spending. Employees have cards and things. So yeah, you're

975
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 1: talking to a guy that has loads of points, and

976
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 1: you know, does it make us spend more on the business? Man?

977
00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 1: I sure hope not, because those millions of miles are

978
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 1: way more expensive than being able to spend less. The

979
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,879
Speaker 1: fact that the banks love it so much. That's as

980
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 1: my eighth grade uh, you know, as my eighth grade

981
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,919
Speaker 1: daughter would say, that sounds a little suss you know. Yeah,

982
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 1: no it does. Yeah, I totally get where you're coming from.

983
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,359
Speaker 1: And I think it is an interesting thing to consider. Um,

984
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: And I think you make some good points, and it's

985
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: worth thinking about whether or not the we're being short

986
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,240
Speaker 1: sighted credit card usage. And I think I think some people,

987
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 1: a lot of people probably are. And but I want

988
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 1: to know too about maybe your take on like a

989
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 1: bigger debt question, like good debt versus bad debt. Some

990
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:35,839
Speaker 1: people would say, we've had, for instance, Michelle Singletary, who

991
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,320
Speaker 1: writes for the Washington Post, who we respect, a ton

992
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 1: who's been writing about personal finance for decades, and she

993
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 1: says there is no such thing as good debt. And

994
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 1: then other people would say, oh my gosh, you have

995
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 1: a mortgage or two and a half percent and inflations

996
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 1: you know, running hot at seven percent right now, you

997
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 1: better just hold out of that thing. That thing is

998
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 1: good for you. Do you have a take on that? Yeah? I, Um,

999
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 1: it's it's more of a personal take. I um pay

1000
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 1: off my mortgage as fast as I could when I

1001
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 1: when we bought our first house, and then we sold

1002
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: that house and we bought a more expensive house, and

1003
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 1: I had a mortgage on that for a few years

1004
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 1: and paid. I just wanted to pay it off as

1005
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:12,840
Speaker 1: fast as I could, so then I was sitting mortgage

1006
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 1: free with the first one, so I kind of jumped

1007
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 1: ahead and we bought a town home as like a rental,

1008
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 1: and so I had a I put down. This was

1009
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,320
Speaker 1: back when real estate didn't cost you like your firstborn.

1010
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: This is like two thousand and twelve or something like that,

1011
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 1: and uh so I got a mortgage on that and

1012
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 1: it was kind of my own. It was our only mortgage.

1013
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 1: And then I bought another town home and end up

1014
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 1: with with four town homes that we're all over this

1015
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 1: period of years with very modest mortgages, totally cash flowing.

1016
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, after we'd paid off

1017
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 1: our personal in our second home that we had bought again,

1018
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 1: I still ended up just paying off those even the

1019
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 1: real estate. So I just don't want to be stressed

1020
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 1: like I and that's that it's worth so much to me,

1021
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: and I do benefit from a business that's profitable, and

1022
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 1: so it's not like I'm trying to make real estate

1023
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 1: my my livelihood, where I'm really like I got to

1024
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:10,919
Speaker 1: eke out finding like real financial return from this UM.

1025
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: And so in that instance, I can be more handwavy

1026
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:18,799
Speaker 1: about the financial upside to leverage UM. But push comes

1027
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 1: to shove as far as personal goes, I just I've

1028
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 1: never liked it. I feel like it UM it messes

1029
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 1: with your decision making in a real way and not

1030
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 1: in a good way. And so I like the idea

1031
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 1: of paying cash for stuff, saving up for things. And uh,

1032
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 1: I just I've just never seen anyone say, you know, gosh,

1033
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 1: I really wish I were in more debt. I just

1034
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,759
Speaker 1: I just never hear anyone dropped that line. So I

1035
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 1: guess I I agree with your friend at the Washington Post.

1036
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 1: I don't really think that there's good debt. I think

1037
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 1: if a lot of people could own their home free

1038
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 1: and clear, they absolutely would, regardless of how crazy low,

1039
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 1: artificially low, like crazy low, those interest rates are. I mean,

1040
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: that's that out in and of itself is a financial

1041
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 1: camera almost how low they've been for you know, it's

1042
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 1: like our age that you know, I'm guessing we're all

1043
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:11,279
Speaker 1: about the same age. We we think it's normal to

1044
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 1: be at that rate, you know, two, three, four, And

1045
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 1: that's nothing that's nothing normal about that. It's just that

1046
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:18,799
Speaker 1: it's all we've known for the last twenty years. We're

1047
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 1: even talking about, Oh I saw an article today, interest

1048
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 1: rates are so high and it's curbing the house of market.

1049
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 1: It's like they're not high historically. They're high compared to

1050
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 1: what we've experienced lately over the past, you know, a

1051
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 1: few years, but they're not historically high. They're they're still

1052
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 1: pretty low. Absolutely. And we were talking about you know

1053
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:39,280
Speaker 1: yapp specifically, the software that you founded. How can folks

1054
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 1: learn more about wine app? And I'm actually curious too,

1055
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 1: Yell specifically you have a thirty four day free trial.

1056
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 1: Uh so, ay, where can folks learn about wine app?

1057
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 1: And b why why is it a thirty four day trial? Ye? So,

1058
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 1: the they can learn about it at windam dot com

1059
00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 1: and uh, take classes, jump on YouTube, watch the videos.

1060
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 1: It's a different it's a really different way of thinking

1061
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 1: about money. So I would hope that they wouldn't just

1062
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 1: be like, oh, I used to use Quicken, so I'll

1063
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 1: just replace it like it's different. And so you really

1064
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 1: want to make sure you see where the thinking is

1065
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:16,880
Speaker 1: coming from and then look at how the tool integrates

1066
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 1: with that. As far as the thirty four day trial,

1067
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 1: we want you to see how it works with a

1068
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:25,319
Speaker 1: month rolling over. So no matter when you start, if

1069
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:27,799
Speaker 1: with a thirty four day trial, you'll always have a

1070
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 1: month plus a little to kind of see like, oh

1071
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: I set aside money this month, that money is available

1072
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 1: next month, and they can start to see that rule

1073
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:38,400
Speaker 1: to in action and things starting to you know, cash

1074
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 1: starting to build up. It's liberating for people to see that.

1075
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:43,879
Speaker 1: So yeah, thirty four day trial all day long helps

1076
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 1: people kind of make that early connection on what it's

1077
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 1: going to be like to save up for stuff, you know,

1078
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 1: like save now by later instead of whatever. Oh gosh,

1079
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 1: let's make that a trend. And and and it's always

1080
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:00,120
Speaker 1: free for students to write. Yeah, we we give a

1081
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 1: free year for students, so okay, graduate student, high school student.

1082
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 1: And also we we launched wine app together. So if

1083
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:08,799
Speaker 1: you're listening to this and and you're like, oh man,

1084
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 1: this would be great for me, but also for like

1085
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 1: my teenage kid. Um, you can buy you know, you

1086
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 1: buy a subscription's a hundred bucks a year, so it's

1087
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:19,839
Speaker 1: it's certainly reasonable. But then you can have I think

1088
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 1: up to five other people and we intend for this

1089
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 1: to be like family, you know, close family, but you

1090
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 1: could put your kids on it. You don't have to

1091
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 1: pay an extra subscription fee things like that. Once your

1092
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:34,319
Speaker 1: kid flies the nest, which you hope happens, they get

1093
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 1: the free year and then they can go off on

1094
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:39,840
Speaker 1: their way. So honestly, we really want the kids to

1095
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:42,399
Speaker 1: be hooked on this, like we wanted just to think, oh, yeah,

1096
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 1: this is how you do money. You save up for stuff,

1097
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 1: you evaluate your priorities, you spend guilt free. We want

1098
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:51,279
Speaker 1: to check all those boxes for these kids. I love it. Jesse,

1099
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us on the show today. Man.

1100
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 1: We appreciate it. I appreciate him alright, Joel, what a

1101
00:52:56,640 --> 00:53:00,879
Speaker 1: great conversation man, talking about something that is a fundamental

1102
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:03,959
Speaker 1: building block when it comes to your personal finances. Talking

1103
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 1: with Jesse about budgeting but specifically why NAB the software

1104
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:10,759
Speaker 1: that he pioneered, that he founded. What was your big

1105
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 1: takeaway from our conversation with him today? Well, one, I

1106
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 1: feel like, you love budgets more than you love me.

1107
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:18,319
Speaker 1: That's your best friend. And so I feel like this

1108
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:20,719
Speaker 1: was probably like your favorite episode everything everything he said.

1109
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 1: I was just like, yes, I can see over there,

1110
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 1: you're just like you're jooling a little bit as he talked, Yeah,

1111
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 1: you're really into it. So no, I really appreciate every

1112
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:29,400
Speaker 1: all the quint was he was diving into like the

1113
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 1: whole time, like the time space money continued very much

1114
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:35,920
Speaker 1: learning out one of those things. I was going to

1115
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 1: say this, It is one of those things that it's

1116
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 1: hard for us to conceptualize, but software can help us

1117
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 1: actually understand how that's working and then make plans accordingly.

1118
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 1: But like our feeble human brains have a hard time

1119
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 1: with that. But the software actually really I think helps

1120
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 1: drive that home for people, which is something we need

1121
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 1: to wrap our minds around if we're gonna you know,

1122
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:55,760
Speaker 1: save and invest effectively. But I think my big takeaway

1123
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 1: from this combo yeah, he said, knowing that you'll run

1124
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:02,719
Speaker 1: out of money helps crystallize your priorities and the realities

1125
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:04,440
Speaker 1: that we're all going to run out of money at

1126
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 1: some point. Depends on how quickly, depends on how much

1127
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 1: money we're making and how fast it's going out. But

1128
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 1: knowing that it's going to run out is going to

1129
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 1: help you crystallize those priorities. And so, uh, what is

1130
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:18,760
Speaker 1: it that is most important to you? It's all about

1131
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 1: trade offs, right, And a lot of people look at

1132
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:23,360
Speaker 1: look at our family, and they're like you guys, You

1133
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 1: guys are like, make enough money to afford two nice cars,

1134
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:28,319
Speaker 1: what do you do and driving one old, beat up

1135
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:31,359
Speaker 1: junkie minivan. It's like, we just don't care. But knowing

1136
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 1: that it's going to run out helps us crystallize our priorities.

1137
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:36,959
Speaker 1: And our priorities lie elsewhere. Someone on Twitter today said,

1138
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 1: what if you just got a million dollars, which one

1139
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 1: thing you would not upgrade? What's one thing you would

1140
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:42,319
Speaker 1: not spend more money on? And I'm like, my car,

1141
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 1: I just don't care enough and I would rather see

1142
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:46,880
Speaker 1: that money go elsewhere. You think about the rivian, but

1143
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:48,919
Speaker 1: you wouldn't pull the trick. I think about it. I'd

1144
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 1: lustily look at pictures on the internet. But then after that,

1145
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 1: I would say now and and so I just think

1146
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:55,280
Speaker 1: that's really important for you to know because we all

1147
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 1: everybody has limits, right, and there's only so many yachts

1148
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:01,560
Speaker 1: that Jeff Bezos can even buy. Yeah, that's probably bad example,

1149
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:04,319
Speaker 1: but uh, like we all are going to run out

1150
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 1: at some point, and so let that crystallize in your

1151
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 1: mind the positive ways that you can use your budget

1152
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 1: to funnel money towards the areas that really matter. Nice man,

1153
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,719
Speaker 1: I like that mine has to do with how it

1154
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 1: is you spend as well. He was basically at some

1155
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 1: point earlier, and I don't know his exact words, but

1156
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 1: he said that essentially, you shouldn't have any spending on

1157
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 1: your books that you feel guilty about. Essentially, everything that

1158
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:30,239
Speaker 1: you spend money on, it should be something that you

1159
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:33,239
Speaker 1: are maybe not necessarily excited about, but it shouldn't be

1160
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:36,759
Speaker 1: something that you feel bad for doing. Uh. And that's

1161
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 1: because hopefully you have aligned how it is that you

1162
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 1: are spending your money with the ways that you want

1163
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 1: to spend your money. And so if there are ways

1164
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 1: that you don't want to spend your money, well, certainly

1165
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 1: it could have arisen from previous decisions that you made.

1166
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 1: Maybe that we're poor decisions. So if you're making like

1167
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 1: credit card payments or payments towards something that you have

1168
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:58,319
Speaker 1: changed your mind on, well, that might be a case

1169
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:00,840
Speaker 1: where things aren't aligned, but that's because you made a

1170
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:02,759
Speaker 1: you know, you made a poor decision in the past

1171
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:05,800
Speaker 1: about pushing those expenses into the future as opposed to

1172
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: do Yeah, yeah, absolutely, as opposed to pushing your money

1173
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:11,319
Speaker 1: into the future. Um. But yeah. I think if you

1174
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 1: do have something in your life that you are spending

1175
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 1: on every single month, and not only is it not

1176
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:18,960
Speaker 1: providing you you joy and it's not providing you value,

1177
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 1: but you feel like it's something that like like you

1178
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:24,359
Speaker 1: have some sense of guilt associated with that, I would

1179
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:26,960
Speaker 1: encourage folks out there to stop and to think why

1180
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:28,839
Speaker 1: is it that you feel that way? Because it can

1181
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 1: It might either be something super simple. It could be

1182
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:33,360
Speaker 1: a practical reasons that oh, well this is a category

1183
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 1: maybe that we shouldn't be spending this money in this way.

1184
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 1: So not only is it can it can it be

1185
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:40,400
Speaker 1: fixed in a very practical way and that you just

1186
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 1: change how it is that you're spending. But maybe it

1187
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 1: could lead to you taking some time to self reflect

1188
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:48,880
Speaker 1: and to think, why is it that I don't you

1189
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 1: know that I don't feel great about how it is

1190
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:52,400
Speaker 1: I'm spending my money in this way? I think it

1191
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 1: could potentially lead to change in both areas. But I

1192
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 1: like that that you should not have any spending on

1193
00:56:57,520 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 1: your books that you feel guilty of. That I love

1194
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 1: too when you talked about the budget burned down, and

1195
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 1: it's this way to like completely reassess everything because you

1196
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:05,400
Speaker 1: might have just listened in your like big old resets.

1197
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:06,799
Speaker 1: There's a bunch of stuff that I really want to

1198
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:09,440
Speaker 1: do that I can't actually afford. But I got all

1199
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:12,640
Speaker 1: these other old expenses laying around in my life, and

1200
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:14,239
Speaker 1: if I could just cut a couple of those out,

1201
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:17,720
Speaker 1: then maybe I could actually spend more money, money more

1202
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:21,160
Speaker 1: freely on the things that I really actually care about.

1203
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 1: And so you might have three cars in your driveway

1204
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 1: and you're like, listen and budget burned down. I'm gonna

1205
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 1: sell one of them, and really I'm gonna rent the

1206
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 1: other one out on tour. But if we only had one, yeah,

1207
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 1: wait a minute, those are the decisions. But but if

1208
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 1: you just uh, there, there is that sort of thing

1209
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:37,919
Speaker 1: that happens to all of us inertia bias. We start

1210
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:40,360
Speaker 1: we've done something, we kind of keep it going in perpetuity.

1211
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,160
Speaker 1: But the budget burned down allows you to reassess everything

1212
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:44,440
Speaker 1: and I think that that can be helpful. You might

1213
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 1: not want to change a bunch of stuff, but you

1214
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:47,760
Speaker 1: might you might want to change a lot this year,

1215
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 1: so it's worth thinking about. All right, let's get back

1216
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:51,880
Speaker 1: to to the beer that we had on this uh,

1217
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 1: this episode. This was igneous I p a by Hutton

1218
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 1: and Smith or your thoughts on this one. It's really good, man,

1219
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 1: this is a dry hops ip. These guys are out

1220
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 1: of Chattanooga, And yeah, it was tasty. It was dry

1221
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:09,360
Speaker 1: hop Oftentimes you expect some of those I don't know,

1222
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:10,960
Speaker 1: I guess I saw dry hopped, and I saw the

1223
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:12,600
Speaker 1: color of the cannon. I was expecting like a New

1224
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 1: England like dry hot beer. But it definitely was kind

1225
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 1: of more in that traditional I p a bas uh

1226
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 1: And it had some some of those sharper notes that

1227
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:22,960
Speaker 1: you get from a dry hot beer, a little more piny,

1228
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:25,440
Speaker 1: little more bitter. Yeah, yeah, but not like over the

1229
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 1: top with like that West Coast resin. It's still had

1230
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 1: some sweetness that still had a multi backbone to it

1231
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 1: as well. But it definitely enjoyed it. What were your

1232
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 1: thoughts on this one? Similar Basically it tasted really like

1233
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:37,320
Speaker 1: a classic I PA and it reminded me of like

1234
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 1: some of those olds here and about it I p

1235
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:42,320
Speaker 1: a s that are just classics, but they don't make

1236
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 1: them like that very much anymore. Like the the tendency

1237
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 1: is towards the juicy Hayes bombs, and so this one

1238
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 1: has that more those like more piney, traditional bitter characteristics

1239
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 1: to pedo a little bit, but not over the top either.

1240
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 1: So yeah, I liked it. I liked it. It it's

1241
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:57,080
Speaker 1: and it's nice to have a change up in I

1242
00:58:57,160 --> 00:58:59,280
Speaker 1: p a s. Because we do drink so many of

1243
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 1: those orange juice I A Yeah, big juicy one, so

1244
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:03,360
Speaker 1: it's fun to try something, you know, a little more

1245
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:05,480
Speaker 1: old school. Absolutely all right, Well, we'll make sure to

1246
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 1: link to wynab where you can learn more about you

1247
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 1: Need a Budget their budgeting software. You can find that

1248
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:13,480
Speaker 1: link up in our show notes at how to money

1249
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:16,000
Speaker 1: dot com. Joel, that's going to be it for this episode, buddy,

1250
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 1: until next time, Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out.