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Speaker 1: On the Bechdecast, the questions ask if movies have women

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Speaker 1: and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy. Zeph and

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Speaker 1: Beast start changing with the Bechdel cast. Cluck cluck, full

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Speaker 1: clutch cluck. Queen, how are you?

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Speaker 2: I'm doing so great? How are you.

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Speaker 1: Never been worse? And I cannot overemphasize that. But today

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Speaker 1: we are here to release I think kind of a

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Speaker 1: banger episode. Oh yeah, we're unlocking an episode from our

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Speaker 1: Patreon aka Matreon. If you enjoyed this episode, you should

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Speaker 1: obviously be subscribing. It's five bucks a month and it'll

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Speaker 1: give you access to over one hundred and fifty episodes,

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Speaker 1: plus new ones every month with Caitlin and myself. But

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Speaker 1: it's Chicken Run Week. It's Chicken Run Week.

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Speaker 2: Yes it is.

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Speaker 1: Oh, you didn't think it was Chicken Run Week.

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Speaker 2: Well it is.

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Speaker 1: Well it is.

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Speaker 2: Take that and there's a reason.

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Speaker 1: There's a method, Yes there is.

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Speaker 2: So this is an episode that we originally released on

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Speaker 2: the Matreon in February twenty twenty one as a part

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Speaker 2: of a theme that we didn't have a good title for.

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Speaker 2: But the theme itself was I think pretty solid, which

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Speaker 2: was movies with animals in the title, because we did

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Speaker 2: Chicken Run and Coyote Ugly, Yes, which has nothing to

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Speaker 2: do with animals.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and two movies that are really like, couldn't be

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Speaker 1: less in conversation with one another, true, but two fun

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Speaker 1: episodes to do and Chicken Run I mean an all

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Speaker 1: timer movie film. There has since been a sequel released

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Speaker 1: on Netflix that I have not watched yet, what about yourself.

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Speaker 2: I just watched it yesterday.

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Speaker 1: My niece loves it and she's four, So there you go.

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Speaker 2: It was fun, I would say, not as good as

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Speaker 2: Chicken Run the original high bar kind of nothing, hy

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Speaker 2: Barticlear exactly. Anyway, you released this episode like three and

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Speaker 2: a half years ago, so if you hear some references

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Speaker 2: that feel a bit dated, that's why. If you're like,

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Speaker 2: why are they bringing up the sonic the Hedgehog movie?

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Speaker 2: Why are they talking about pandemic stimulus checks as if

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Speaker 2: it just happened, Well, that's wild.

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Speaker 1: I guess what. We weren't even vaccinated. Like, really, take

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Speaker 1: yourself back there. We were in the thick of it,

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Speaker 1: and we're in the thick of it now. But it's

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Speaker 1: in a different way. The reason we're doing this is

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Speaker 1: if you're in the Los Angeles area, you're in freaking

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Speaker 1: luck because we are hosting a screening of Chicken Run

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Speaker 1: at the Low's feel As three with American Cinematech on

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Speaker 1: August twenty fifth. We're so pumped. We technically hosted as

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Speaker 1: screening with them last year, but neither of us could

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Speaker 1: go this year. Things are a little different because you

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Speaker 1: had COVID last year. I have COVID right now, so

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna have it in three weeks. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: we'll be there.

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Speaker 2: We'll be there presenting Chicken Run. Yes, this is part

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Speaker 2: of American Semitech's Friend of the Fest podcast festival, where

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Speaker 2: they have podcast hosts introduce one of their favorite films,

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Speaker 2: and we have the honor of presenting Chicken Run. And

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Speaker 2: we're like, hey, what better way to promote that screening

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Speaker 2: than to unlock our Matreon episode on Chicken Run. And

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Speaker 2: that's what we're doing right now. A men, Now, if

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Speaker 2: this is your first episode of the Bechdel Cast or

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Speaker 2: you know, you don't really know who we are and

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Speaker 2: what we are, we well, first of all, my name's

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Speaker 2: Caitlin Deronte.

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Speaker 1: My name is Jamie loftus.

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Speaker 2: This is our podcast where we examine movies through an

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Speaker 2: intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel Test as a jumping

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Speaker 2: off point. But Jamie, what's that well?

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Speaker 1: The Bechdel Test is a media metric originally created by

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Speaker 1: queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, often called the Bechdel Wallace Test

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Speaker 1: because it was co created with Alison Bechdel's good friend

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Speaker 1: Liz Wallace. This test was created as a joke, a

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Speaker 1: bit a lark an idea, a passing fancy by Alison

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Speaker 1: Bechdel for her iconic comic Iconic Comic Likes to Watch

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Speaker 1: Out for Great Comic. She's basically commenting on how infrequently

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Speaker 1: women talk to each other in a queer context originally,

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Speaker 1: but the way it's been adapted for the mainstream is

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Speaker 1: that it's looking at how infrequently people of marginalized genders

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Speaker 1: are allowed to speak about not men. So there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of versions of the test. The test we use

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Speaker 1: is this, two characters of a marginalized gender with names

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Speaker 1: must speak to each other for more than two lines

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Speaker 1: of dialogue about a character who is not a man,

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Speaker 1: and I honestly forget with Chicken Run. I honestly forget

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have to consult with us three and a

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Speaker 1: half years ago because they they know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, if you want me to spoil it for

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Speaker 2: you right now, they definitely pass the Bechdel test.

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Speaker 1: I mean it is mostly about Yeah, this is a

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Speaker 1: chicken matriarchy in any case, that is what we're releasing.

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Speaker 1: And if you are in the LA area, we would love, love,

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Speaker 1: love for you to join us on Sunday, August twenty fifth,

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Speaker 1: at four pm. We're going to put the link in

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Speaker 1: the description of this episode. We're also going to be

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Speaker 1: plugging the hell out of it on social media, and

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Speaker 1: please join us.

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Speaker 2: It's eighty four minutes long, and it's been eighty four

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Speaker 2: minutes minutes and I can still smell the chicken chickens.

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Speaker 1: Yep, I can still smell the chickens.

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Speaker 2: The chickens had never been used.

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Speaker 1: Which is the whole point, Which is the whole point

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Speaker 1: of Chicken Run, which is the whole point. They're trying

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Speaker 1: to escape with their lives exactly. Yeah, just a perfect movie.

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Speaker 1: We would love to watch it with you. I you know,

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Speaker 1: I want to dress up like a chicken. There I

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Speaker 1: said it. I want to dress up like a chicken

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Speaker 1: do it. I don't know, like I've never really made

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Speaker 1: I believe in myself that I can make this happen.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what that's gonna look like, but you

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Speaker 1: should come and see see if we pulled it off.

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Speaker 2: Yes, definitely, so yeah, grab tickets for that. You can

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Speaker 2: also find the tickets on our link tree link Tree

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Speaker 2: slash Bechtel Cast and Yeah, we are so excited to

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Speaker 2: present this movie and we hope to see you there.

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Speaker 2: And in the meantime, enjoy this unlocked Matreon episode of

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Speaker 2: Chicken Run. Jamie, what's your relationship with Chicken Run?

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Speaker 1: Chicken Run's one of my favorite movies ever. I love

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Speaker 1: Chicken Run. I remember seeing it in theaters with my

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Speaker 1: family and being like, wow, look at this chickens run

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Speaker 1: and not really understanding you know, feminism, patriarchal structures or

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Speaker 1: or you know, workers live, and yet Chicken Run really hit.

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Speaker 1: I loved it. I thought. I remember being scared when

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Speaker 1: they go into the Chicken Machine. It was like for

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Speaker 1: me right up there with Toy Story three, where it's like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, these adorable characters are entering a doom

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Speaker 1: machine and I'm so scared. I just love I just

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Speaker 1: love Chicken Run, and I watch it probably about once

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Speaker 1: a year for fun, depending on whether it's streaming places.

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Speaker 1: I just watched it a couple months ago because I

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Speaker 1: remember texting you about it, like fairly recently, and then

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Speaker 1: you came up with this brilliant theme, You're welcome, and

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Speaker 1: here we are back at Chicken Run, and yeah, I think,

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Speaker 1: I mean, there are elements of it that don't hold

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Speaker 1: up for me, but I think by and large as

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Speaker 1: a movie, as a product, as a story, as a romp,

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Speaker 1: as a romp, I mean, I think it holds up

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Speaker 1: extraordinarily well. And I still love it. And I tweeted

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Speaker 1: about loving today, and then you get five trillion people

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Speaker 1: be like, but what about mel Gibson? As Like, I

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Speaker 1: am aware that mel Gibson is in this movie. We

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Speaker 1: will talk about it, but I'm not gonna let mel

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Speaker 1: Gibson take away Chicken Run from me. I really love

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Speaker 1: this movie and fuck mel Gibson. Two things can be true.

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Speaker 1: What's your history with Chicken Run?

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Speaker 2: I haven't seen it as often as you, but I

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Speaker 2: too love this movie. I saw it when it first

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Speaker 2: came out in two thousand. I think I saw it

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Speaker 2: like a couple times. I think that was my first

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Speaker 2: introduction to that type of like stop motion from that

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Speaker 2: studio specifically, because I don't think I saw anything Wallace

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Speaker 2: and Grammt until after this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that I didn't see any Wallace and

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Speaker 1: Grammat until unless they I don't think they showed the

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Speaker 1: short and I don't think I saw it until like

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Speaker 1: Curse of the were Rabbit, and then I went back

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Speaker 1: and saw the short cartoons. Right, everything from this studio

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Speaker 1: is so fucking beautiful, Like all of the Arden and

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Speaker 1: Studios stuff is just like incredible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I always get so I get and people

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Speaker 2: might drag me for this, but I get this studio's

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Speaker 2: content sometimes confused with Laika content.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I mean they also do could blame you thank

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Speaker 1: you so much ascept a bully. Yeah no, I mean

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Speaker 1: like the because Leika is like Coraline and shit like that.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, but like similar, like especially with what did

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Speaker 2: I see recently missing Link that came out like twenty

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Speaker 2: nineteen or something. Yes, I was like, oh, this is

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Speaker 2: probably the same studio as Chicken Run. And then I

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Speaker 2: was like, oh wait, no it's the other one.

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Speaker 1: So looks very similar yeah, Thelika movies do like quiet,

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Speaker 1: and I feel like there's a lot of like they're

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Speaker 1: also all very British, yes, and so I feel like

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Speaker 1: it's also the tone to the movies, or I'm sure

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Speaker 1: that there is some overlap app creatively, but they're like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're very British stop motion movies. If anyone's if anyone

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Speaker 1: bullies you about that, launch me out of the chicken

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Speaker 1: what is it the catapult? Yeah, the chicken catapults.

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Speaker 2: I'll attack them more like the chicken polt.

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Speaker 1: Oh god, the sheer resourcefulness of these brilliant chickens.

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Speaker 2: I know. Oh, I can't wait to talk about it.

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Speaker 1: There's so much to talk about. Even in it's the

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Speaker 1: areas where it is not amazing, there's still a lot

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Speaker 1: to talk about, Like this movie. Now that I was

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Speaker 1: paying attention to the politics of the movie and not

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Speaker 1: just being like I love these chickens, which is usually

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Speaker 1: where I'm at when I'm watching Chicken Run. I'm eating

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Speaker 1: a plate of nachos and I'm like, these chickens are

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Speaker 1: so cool. But this is like this movie is like

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Speaker 1: if Animal Farm had gone right basically, yeah, like it's

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Speaker 1: animals like seizing the means of production. I have a

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Speaker 1: whole thing about it. But like they're seizing the means

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Speaker 1: of production, they are overthrowing the oppressive force. But there's

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Speaker 1: no like there's not enough infighting that the whole operation

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Speaker 1: gets sabotaged, like they liberate themselves. It's beautiful.

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Speaker 2: It is beautiful. It's also what So we recently were

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Speaker 2: guests on the podcast Creature Feature talking about B Movie,

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Speaker 2: and I feel like this is what B Movie was

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Speaker 2: like maybe trying to do and then like utterly fumbling

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Speaker 2: and failing every step of the way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. B movie just ended up being like, Wow, capitalism

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Speaker 1: it's awesome. No, no, no, its it rocks. Although I

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Speaker 1: was thinking I was thinking about B Movie when Larry

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Speaker 1: King died, because I'm like, wow, what was his name?

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Speaker 2: Me, Larry King?

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Speaker 1: Be Larry King. That was like maybe his best maybe

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Speaker 1: his best work, his best credit, Yeah iconic. Yeah. No,

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Speaker 1: So Larry King's not in this although I wish he

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Speaker 1: was instead of Mel Gibson. Seriously, the Mel Gibson of

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Speaker 1: it all. It's so it fucking sucks that he's in

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Speaker 1: this movie, man, because other than that, it is like

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Speaker 1: such a fabulous.

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Speaker 2: Movie. At least we don't have to see Mel Gibson's face.

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Speaker 1: It does make it easier to I mean, it's I

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Speaker 1: hate that he got paid to be in this amazing movie. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: at very least he's playing an evil fraud. But then

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Speaker 1: also he's forgiven at the end.

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Speaker 2: Oh, don't get me, Sack.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot to be taught. I'm just like, you

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Speaker 1: know what, he should have just left and stayed gone.

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Speaker 2: And stayed gone exactly.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why, Like I thought, I really thought,

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Speaker 1: because I've been thinking so much about when we redid

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Speaker 1: Beauty and the Beast and we had that whole conversation

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Speaker 1: about like the burden of forgiveness on female characters, and

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Speaker 1: I didn't totally. I don't know. I just I'm never

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Speaker 1: paying super close attention to the plot points of Chicken Run.

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Speaker 1: And so I was like, she, Ginger comes so close

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Speaker 1: to like subverting that and being like, fuck you get

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Speaker 1: out of here, you coward, right, But then he shows

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Speaker 1: up and then she I'm like, Ginger, I mean, live

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Speaker 1: your life, don't let me tell you how to live, Ginger.

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Speaker 1: But like Ginger, I feel like we can just do better.

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Speaker 1: We can do better.

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Speaker 2: Ginger can do something.

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Speaker 1: I'm not opposed to Ginger finding love, but like Rocky

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Speaker 1: really literally it sounds like my mom of just like

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Speaker 1: my mom's like, you're gonna go off with some guy

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Speaker 1: from Rhode Island, which is literally who Rocky is. He's

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Speaker 1: some guy from Rhode Island. True, Ginger, do not just

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Speaker 1: go off with some guy from Rhode Island. I mean

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Speaker 1: that whole thing. We'll get there, but.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, we'll get there. In the meantime, should we

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Speaker 2: recap it?

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Speaker 1: Yes, I'm sorry, I'm getting like so excited. I have

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Speaker 1: like a full glass of wine and I'm so excited

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Speaker 1: to talk about chicken run.

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, I love it. Uh, let's take a

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Speaker 2: quick break and then we'll come right back for the recap.

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Speaker 2: So the story is as follows. We open on a

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Speaker 2: chicken farm. The chickens are, they talk, and they're they're people,

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Speaker 2: But their chickens.

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Speaker 1: The most horrifying thing. I mean not horrifying. I don't

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Speaker 1: know how the animation gets away with not being scary,

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Speaker 1: but giving a farmful of chickens full sets of human

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Speaker 1: teeth is such like a decision that it should look

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Speaker 1: scarier than it does, and I feel like it speaks

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Speaker 1: to the animation that that is not extremely because wasn't

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Speaker 1: that like the reason that they completely reanimated the sonic

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Speaker 1: the Hedgehog movie is because they're like, why does he

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Speaker 1: have human teeth?

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Speaker 2: Oh? I thought it was because his like proportions were

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Speaker 2: all wrong.

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Speaker 1: Wait let me oh, hold on, Maybe it was a combination,

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Speaker 1: because that sounds right as well.

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Speaker 2: Because he was like, his like proportions were just like,

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Speaker 2: like his leg the length of his legs and arms

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Speaker 2: were just like really bizarre. And they were like, this

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Speaker 2: looks terrible.

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Speaker 1: So we're both right and and I forgot how scary

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Speaker 1: the first sonic was. Yeah, so he both looked too

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Speaker 1: much like an animal and his proportions were like two

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Speaker 1: Uncanny Valley photorealistic, Like he just looks like a blue cat,

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Speaker 1: but he has like a full set of like Joe

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Speaker 1: Biden viniars, Pete Davis whatever, whoever, Walton Goggins vinyars like

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Speaker 1: mm hmm, just really scary stuff. For some reason, the

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Speaker 1: chickens and the roosters they're allowed to have full sets

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Speaker 1: of teeth. It doesn't bother me, Yeah, why not.

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Speaker 2: I'll allow it. So one of the chickens, our hero Ginger,

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Speaker 2: is organizing a mass escape for her and all the

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Speaker 2: other chickens to basically do a prison break. And I

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Speaker 2: also read that when this movie was like being developed,

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Speaker 2: they were just like, let's do the Great Escape but

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Speaker 2: with chickens.

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Speaker 1: Which is like, holy shit, right, what a what a

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Speaker 1: wide swing?

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Speaker 2: Why didn't I think of that? You know?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: So we meet some of the other chickens. There's Babs,

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Speaker 2: who is always knitting. There is Mac who is the

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Speaker 2: brainy chicken in Stem.

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Speaker 1: She's a chicken in Stem.

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Speaker 2: A chicken in Stem, and you'd love to see it

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Speaker 2: at last, at long Last.

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Speaker 1: She's also Scottish, which is constantly made a joke off,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, I can't tell if this is offensive

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Speaker 1: or if I just don't live in the UK, but

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Speaker 1: she's very Scottish.

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Speaker 2: She also wears glasses.

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Speaker 1: She wears glasses exactly. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yes, there's Bunty, who lays a lot of eggs. I

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Speaker 2: think that's kind of the main thing that we know.

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Speaker 2: She's very fertile, Yeah, very fertile, full bursting at the

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Speaker 2: seems with eggs. There's also an old rooster named Fowler

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Speaker 2: who's like a former military man and he's always carrying

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Speaker 2: the world War two, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Or he says you did. He was actually just a chicken.

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Speaker 2: He's just a chicken this whole time. Yeah, but he's

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Speaker 2: always caring on about his glory days.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: So Ginger is trying to escape and she gets caught

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Speaker 2: by mister Tweety, Mister Tweety's dogs and Missus Tweety.

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Speaker 1: Oh and iconic villains so scary. When I was a kid,

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Speaker 1: I was so scared of her. But I think, you know, Jen,

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Speaker 1: we'll have a more full discussion about her. But like

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Speaker 1: where older women are so often fully demonized, with Missus Tweety,

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Speaker 1: it's not because she's jealous of this. I think she's

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Speaker 1: very logically motivated and true. And I also think that

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Speaker 1: she is I forget where I thought this as I

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Speaker 1: was watching, and I'm like, you're reaching, Jamie. But then

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Speaker 1: I saw someone else wrote about it. I was like,

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Speaker 1: I think that she's supposed to be like low key

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Speaker 1: Margaret Thatcher. Oh, she styled kind of similarly. I think

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Speaker 1: she's supposed to be like rural Margaret Margaret Thatcher. That's

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Speaker 1: my working theory that at least I have their name

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Speaker 1: written down here, that at least one writer also thought.

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Speaker 1: But she's at least she is an She is like,

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Speaker 1: she looks kind of like an evil stepmother, but she

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Speaker 1: is a very highly motivated capitalist villain. Yeah, iconic, iconic, scary.

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Speaker 2: And voiced by Miranda Richardson.

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Speaker 1: Yes, too amazing.

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Speaker 2: So Ginger gets caught and is thrown into solitary confinement,

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Speaker 2: and as soon as she's released, she plans another escape,

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Speaker 2: and another and another. We get a montage, each one

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Speaker 2: ending in her getting caught and put in solitary.

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Speaker 1: They're all funny, Yes, I like when they dress up

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Speaker 1: like missus tweety and almost escape. Oh and then it's

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Speaker 1: just a dress full of chickens. Oh, I'm laughing.

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Speaker 2: The visual comedy in this movie is outstanding genius.

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Speaker 1: It's so good all Yeah, Like these chickens, they are

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Speaker 1: cracking me up eighty four minutes straight.

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Speaker 2: Even the scene where like they're trying to escape like

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Speaker 2: a trough they're like covering themselves up with it, and

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Speaker 2: then they flip over and all their legs are just

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Speaker 2: sort of flailing about. Like just the visual of their

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Speaker 2: legs is the funniest thing I've ever seen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Like anytime they're on, the chickens are on like

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Speaker 1: stationary bicycles. I'm laughing like it just chickens are funny

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Speaker 1: and and they're also you know, maytriarchy seizing the means

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Speaker 1: of production, so they're also very inspirational. Here is it's true,

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Speaker 1: Oh dressful of chickens, Like, who's gonna no, I can't

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Speaker 1: write a joke that good dressful of chickens hilarious.

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Speaker 2: So mister and missus Tweety this is an egg farm,

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Speaker 2: not a poultry farm yet, but they're keeping track of

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Speaker 2: the chicken's egg production, and if a chicken doesn't produce

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Speaker 2: enough eggs, the Tweeties chop that chicken's head, which we

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Speaker 2: see not like the gory details of it, but so

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Speaker 2: sad though, Like a chicken gets murdered within the first

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Speaker 2: ten minutes of the.

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Speaker 1: Movie talk about steaks, I mean, yeah, immediately that it's

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Speaker 1: life or death for the chickens because of what's her name?

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Speaker 1: Her name is Edwena Chicken Edwena at this on this view,

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Speaker 1: at least, I'm like, at least she didn't like it

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Speaker 1: would have been even because this is a g rated movie,

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Speaker 1: which is wild for how many times they almost knife

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Speaker 1: the chickens, right, But at least Edwena didn't. I was

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Speaker 1: worried that she was gonna go like, ah, like, but

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Speaker 1: it's just silent.

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Speaker 2: You just hear like the thunk of an axe.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if they're like if she clucks when she's beheaded,

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Speaker 1: it's PG or something. I don't know. That's too much.

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Speaker 2: Right, Oh my goodness. And also missus Tweety is sick

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Speaker 2: and tired of the farm's minuscule profits, and she sees

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Speaker 2: an ad to turn her egg farm into a gold

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Speaker 2: mine by producing chicken meat rather than chicken eggs. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 2: Ginger is trying to hatch a new plan to escape.

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Speaker 2: Get it hatch.

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Speaker 1: Ginger in these scenes reminds me of like every DSA

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Speaker 1: meeting I've ever been to, where there's like one highly

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Speaker 1: motivated person trying to get like fifty well meaning people

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Speaker 1: to pay attention to a good idea, and everyone's like, wait,

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Speaker 1: huh what huh. It's literally Ginger is a branch leader

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Speaker 1: of the DSA, and no one on the zoom call

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Speaker 1: is listening to.

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Speaker 2: Her exactly, so basically, she just keeps pitching ideas to

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Speaker 2: escape because her whole thing is she's not happy with

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Speaker 2: the expectation to lay eggs every day until she is

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Speaker 2: what is it plucked, roasted and turned into chicken dinner

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Speaker 2: or some some I forget the quote exactly.

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Speaker 1: Right, because it's like the Tweeties, even before they sell poultry.

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Speaker 1: Once you don't lay eggs, they will just eat you.

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Speaker 2: Correct. Yes, So she's not satisfied with this being her

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Speaker 2: fate and that's why she is longing to be free.

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Speaker 2: But the other chickens are like, well, you know what

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Speaker 2: if we don't try to escape because it never seems

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Speaker 2: to work.

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Speaker 1: Right, it's exhausting, I'm tired. And then that line where

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Speaker 1: Ginger is like, there's not just fences outside of the coop,

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Speaker 1: there's fences in your mind, and you're like, well, like exactly, Oh,

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Speaker 1: she's amazing.

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Speaker 2: She's a what a speaker, truly, and yeah there's stuff

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Speaker 2: to talk about with the complacency of the other chicken.

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Speaker 1: I love, it's literally it's just it's a Marxist tail.

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Speaker 2: Okay. So the other chickens are like, well, let's maybe

406
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Speaker 2: not escape. So Ginger is hopeless until a root stur

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Speaker 2: named Rocky this is mel Gibson boo yeah, flies into

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Speaker 2: their farm and Ginger gets the idea for the chickens

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Speaker 2: to escape by flying over the fence and out of

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Speaker 2: the farm, and she wants Rocky to teach them to fly,

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Speaker 2: but Rocky is not interested in that. But he cannot

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Speaker 2: leave because he broke his wing crash landing into the farm.

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Speaker 1: And then there's a great scene where they have to

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Speaker 1: like negotiate of like what services he's going to provide,

415
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Speaker 1: because at first he's like, no, I'm not gonna help you.

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Speaker 1: He kind of reminds me of like Chicken Han Solo

417
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Speaker 1: a little bit where he's like, screw the collective. I'm

418
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Speaker 1: just a I'm just a guy, and I'm just a

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Speaker 1: horny guy wandering the earth, and screw you. And then she,

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Speaker 1: you know, she kind of she's got them. She's like,

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Speaker 1: I'm not just going to This is where I feel

422
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Speaker 1: like there's a really cool something set up that the

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Speaker 1: ending doesn't really follow through on of like she does

424
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Speaker 1: not have sympathy for him, just because he says that

425
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Speaker 1: she should like in to establish their relationship, which is

426
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Speaker 1: such a strong way to establish a relationship between like

427
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Speaker 1: in a kid's cartoon. Right. Oh, I just wish it

428
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Speaker 1: stayed that way, but I love that. I love that

429
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,440
Speaker 1: first scene where he's like what, You're not gonna help

430
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Speaker 1: me because I'm cute and she's like, fuck you, right

431
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Speaker 1: to the guillotine, sir.

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Speaker 2: And then I mean this is like, this is just

433
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 2: like a good screenwriting comment. But he's like, okay, fine,

434
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 2: I'll teach you everything I know, which he doesn't know

435
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 2: anything because spoiler alert, he doesn't know how to fly,

436
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,120
Speaker 2: but he just like omits that, which is the same

437
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 2: thing he does to the two rats that we.

438
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: See Timothy's more. Timothy's spall like, let this man play

439
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: not a rat for once in his life.

440
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,880
Speaker 2: He might as well have been playing scabberds. Yeah.

441
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 1: Literally, I'm just like, this man is being typecast as

442
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 1: a literal rat, and that's not nice. He was a

443
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 1: really good mister Poe in Series of Unfortunate Events, which

444
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 1: I am. I think I am going to choose that

445
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 1: for my birthday this year on the Matreon ooh yeah,

446
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 1: but yeah, poor Timothy's ball when I was like, wait

447
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,239
Speaker 1: a second, it can't be and I'm like, god damn it,

448
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,679
Speaker 1: they're still making Timothy's Ball play a British rat. Maybe

449
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 1: this is how he got cast in Harry Potter.

450
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 2: Ye, this was before the first Harry Potter movie.

451
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: That would be really yeah, because he doesn't even come

452
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 1: in till like the later movies, right, like the third

453
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:28,919
Speaker 1: or fourth or something.

454
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 2: The third one.

455
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that would be really sad but also kind

456
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 1: of funny if they were like, well, you know he

457
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 1: can play a British rat, well, Timmy's ball weird.

458
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. So back on the farm, So some men show

459
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 2: up from the circus to collect Rocky the rooster, so

460
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 2: like he's a runaway from the circus. Ginger realizes this,

461
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 2: so she makes a deal with him that the chickens

462
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 2: will hide him if he teaches them to fly, and

463
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 2: he agrees.

464
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: Amazing negotiation by Ginger.

465
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:10,399
Speaker 2: Incredible. Yes. Then the next day Rocky starts training the

466
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 2: chickens to fly by not doing anything related to flying,

467
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,120
Speaker 2: and they don't seem to be making any progress because

468
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 2: chickens can't fly.

469
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of like evokes I think that these

470
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: movies were made too close together, but like it evoked

471
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: the be a Man sequence from Mulan for me of

472
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: just like an insecure man leading a group of soldiers

473
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: for a mission that they will fail at. I guess

474
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 1: that's where I was coming from.

475
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, I mean a training montage is a training

476
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 2: montage is a training montage. You know they're I.

477
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: Guess I just don't watch many movies with trade. I

478
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: think these are the These are the only two movies

479
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 1: I've ever seen with a group training montage.

480
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Really I have seen are.

481
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: Other movies with training montages that are like a big

482
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 1: group of people, because I'm like, I've seen movies with

483
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: training montages, but I just feel like these movies two

484
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: years apart. I think that's why I'm just like, uh

485
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 1: huh oh yeah. Insecure guy leads a group of soldiers

486
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,160
Speaker 1: that don't really know what they're doing.

487
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 2: I mean, just like any sports movie where like the

488
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 2: whole team is training, there's you know, dozens of those.

489
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 1: I've seen, remember the Titans. I haven't seen many sports movies.

490
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: I think that's why I'm like, Wow, look at these

491
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 1: two iconic movies borrowing from each other, Mulan and Chicken Run.

492
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 1: There's no way, but that was what I thought.

493
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 2: Sure, Well, gotta watch more training montages.

494
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 1: They're great, apparently, I guess.

495
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 2: Okay, so the chickens are trying to learn to fly,

496
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 2: no progress is being made, and then the equipment for

497
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:58,400
Speaker 2: turning the farm into a poultry farm arrives and we're like, wow,

498
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 2: those steaks that we thought were all ready pretty high,

499
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:02,959
Speaker 2: guess what even higher?

500
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: Who Now they won't stop rising.

501
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 2: They really won't. So some of the chickens, including Ginger,

502
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 2: are growing skeptical of Rocky because nothing seems to be happening.

503
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 2: She wants results, but he's also this like pompous, shitty

504
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 2: guy who's just like being dodgy about everything. Classic. Then

505
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 2: missus Tweety doubles their food rations to fatten the chickens

506
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 2: up so they produce more meat, which Ginger figures out

507
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 2: and tells the chickens, and then everyone is all sad

508
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 2: because they realize they're about to be murdered. And then Rocky,

509
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 2: to cheer everyone up, throws a party, right, and Ginger's like,

510
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 2: wait a minute, maybe I was wrong about him. Maybe

511
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 2: he's actually this good, nice guy after all, and his

512
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 2: wings seems to be better. So she's like, Okay, tomorrow

513
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 2: you can fly for us and show us how it's done,

514
00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 2: and he's like, yeah, yeah, definitely, I can definitely sure

515
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 2: definitely do that. Uh huh huh.

516
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 1: God, he's such a coward. I always, I always forget

517
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: that he never even like admits. There's no scene in

518
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: which he's like, Okay, I actually can't fly. At least

519
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: then he would have a shred.

520
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 2: Of like integrity.

521
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he's just a total like weak coward.

522
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

523
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm it's nice, you know, for our purposes.

524
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 1: It's it's interesting that like Ginger figures out that he's

525
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: a fraud. She finds in the next scene, she finds

526
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: us the other half of the poster that basically says

527
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: he's a circus act. He can't really fly. So it's

528
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: good that she discovers that. But I'm like, this fucking

529
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 1: guy from Rhode Island is just lying, lying, lying, and

530
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: then he bails. He never even he never has to

531
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 1: face the music.

532
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 2: It's he's there. There are like one or two moments

533
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 2: where it's clear that he's like trying to work up

534
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 2: the nerve to tell her, but then doesn't he You

535
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 2: might say he chickens out.

536
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 1: He chickens out. He's the biggest chicken in the movie,

537
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: not just physically because he's pretty tall, but he's a cat.

538
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: He's a cowardly he's a chicken chicken. Yes, he bails,

539
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: he gets his little chicken bindle and he gets the

540
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: fuck out of there.

541
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 2: Also, does he ever apologize to her at the end? No,

542
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 2: he doesn't, didn't think so she there.

543
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: There are a few elements of like very girl there.

544
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: For the most part, I feel like Ginger's character like

545
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: manages to skirt around late nineties girl power feminism, but

546
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 1: there's a few moments where it's like he never apologizes

547
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: and there's that classic I feel like this happens in

548
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: every Mary Kate Nashley movie where he calls her like

549
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: a diminutive thing. He's like dollphace, angel beak or whatever,

550
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: and then she goes, my name is Ginger, and it's

551
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: like that edit some if you said a sentence like that,

552
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 1: that that's feminism, And like there was a time where

553
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: I feel like there's that happens in like Disney's Hercules

554
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: as well, where it's like, at least with Ginger, she

555
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: genuinely is like I think, a really feminist iconic character. Yeah,

556
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: but I feel like sometimes that's a shorthand for men

557
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: writing quote unquote empowered female characters. It's like, that's not

558
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: my name, this is my name, and you're like that's

559
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: all we get.

560
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 2: It's like, don't it happens in my name? Yeah, it

561
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 2: happens in Transformers with Megan Fox, where like her boyfriend

562
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 2: is like, come on, little bunny, and she's like, I

563
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 2: can't tell you how much I'm not your little bunny. Meanwhile,

564
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,479
Speaker 2: she's like humping the hood of a car.

565
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: Don't ask me, don't ask me why. This is the

566
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: only thing I remember about New York minute starting Mary

567
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: Kate and Ashley. But that happens, for sure. I think

568
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 1: Dean from Gilmour Girls is like, hey, kid, and then

569
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: Mary Kate or Ashley is like, my name's not Kid, it's.

570
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 2: Mary Kay or Ashley.

571
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: Whatever the fuck? Yeah, I'm Mary kay and or Ashley

572
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: and he's like, whoa. What you said back there really

573
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: made me think, like you're just like that. So that happens.

574
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: But at least other things happened in Chicken Run, you know. Sure,

575
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: But that whole thing that was like my little nineties

576
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: feminism Antenna went up when she's like, the name is Ginger, mister,

577
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 1: like that whole thing whatever, Yeah, it's still Chicken Run.

578
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 2: Do you think Ginger was named after Ginger Spice?

579
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: I was thinking about as tohold by Ginger and then

580
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: I looked, did you ever watch that cartoon?

581
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 2: No?

582
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it was a really good like, Okay.

583
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 2: Who is is someone me owing?

584
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: Yes, there's this cat. It's not Flea hungry.

585
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 2: For his chicken dinner. Oh it's a different cat.

586
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: No, it's Flea sitting at the window. Because there's a

587
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: lot of alley cats in our neighbor feeds and fixes

588
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 1: and relief, like it's like a catchabuili system. But there's

589
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: cats around, and Flea will talk to them. But there's

590
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: this one cat that we have checked on them multiple

591
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: times and they seem fine, but they just keep They

592
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 1: just kind of yell and then we're like, are you okay?

593
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: And we're like if given him food or her. I

594
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: don't know what the gender of the cat is. I like,

595
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: I secretly, I'm like, what if the cat is pregnant?

596
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 2: Oh?

597
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: Gregs and just is like uncomfortable because she's full of Gregs.

598
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 1: I don't really know what's going on, but it's been

599
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: going on for a week and every time she starts screaming,

600
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: flee gets stressed out. Oh I don't know.

601
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,479
Speaker 2: I'm just thinking of a bunch of little kittens named Greg.

602
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: The little Greg's running around five hundred. Anyways, chicken run right, Yes.

603
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 2: So where do we leave off? Oh Ginger, Yeah, he's

604
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 2: a fraud, but she doesn't Ginger doesn't know that yet. Meanwhile,

605
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 2: missus Tweety has gotten the equipment together, the U and

606
00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 2: it's basically just this machine that turns a chicken to

607
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 2: a packaged chicken pie, and she wants to test it out.

608
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 2: So they grab Ginger and put her in the pie machine.

609
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 2: Rocky goes to save her. The two of them go

610
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 2: through the machine. They managed to escape and fuck up

611
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 2: the machine, and now everyone's like, wow, Rocky, what a hero, even.

612
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: Though he does nothing at least because I was like,

613
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: oh god, we're damseling Ginger. But then it's like Rocky

614
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: truly does not help in any significant way, and that

615
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: he just kind of joins the distress, Like.

616
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 2: You mean, like when they's inside the machine.

617
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean mainly, I mean, I guess it seemed

618
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 1: more like a group effort and it wasn't like she

619
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: was damseled and now, oh no, he has to like

620
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 1: single handedly rescue her, and it was at least like

621
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: a group effort to get out of the machine in

622
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: one piece.

623
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 2: Sometimes well, I was I was like paying super close

624
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 2: attention to this because I was like, okay, is it

625
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 2: like he saves her sometimes she saves him sometimes, Like

626
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 2: how how does that dynamic play out? And it felt

627
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 2: to me like he does do a few things to

628
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 2: save her from certain death, she does one thing to

629
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 2: save him. But it felt to me like the scales

630
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: were tipped into like she is being damseled territory and

631
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,720
Speaker 2: he does have to save her a few more times

632
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 2: than she saves him, or that she's able to save herself.

633
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: Interesting, I was, I was not doing the exact math

634
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: on it. I was, at least I guess I was

635
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: more expecting like, oh, we're damseling her and then it's

636
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 1: going to be a clear cut like end of The

637
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 1: Little Mermaid, like I'm gonna defeat the villain, and then

638
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: you know it's at least a little more subtle than that.

639
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean I totally trust that. I wasn't. Yeah,

640
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 1: I wasn't keeping counts. Yeah, I just love Chicken Run

641
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:52,360
Speaker 1: too much. Disappointing, disappointing Chicken Run, do better, Chicken Run.

642
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 2: Seriously, So he he emerges like this heroic you know, Wow,

643
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 2: I saved her and then he and Ginger have a

644
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 2: little moment and we're like, uh, oh, don't like where

645
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 2: this is going.

646
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: But you know, you know, I'm like in the year

647
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 1: two thousand. You know, it's so fucked up. She doesn't

648
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 1: need him.

649
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 2: No, no, she really doesn't. But the next morning it's

650
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 2: time for Rocky to show them his flying abilities, but

651
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 2: he's nowhere to be found. And this is when he

652
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 2: leaves behind like the rest of the circus poster showing

653
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,439
Speaker 2: him being shot out of a cannon, revealing that he

654
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 2: cannot fly and never could. And we're like, oh, wow,

655
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 2: have we arrived at the low point of the movie much?

656
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounded like a second And what's more, Ginger's

657
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 1: lost all hope the end of it.

658
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 2: Until Ginger gets the idea, inspired by Fowler's time in

659
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 2: the Royal Air Force, to fly out of the farm

660
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 2: by building an airplane slash giant flying chicken apparatus. So

661
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 2: they get to work on building this while mister Tweety

662
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 2: gets to work repairing the chicken pie machine and he

663
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 2: finally fixes it, so now it's like a okay, and

664
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 2: it's now or never. The chickens roll out their flying

665
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 2: chicken plane. They take off Rocky comes back to help,

666
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 2: but missus Tweety is there trying to stop them. She

667
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 2: grabs on They have to scary, very scary scary. They

668
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 2: have to fight her off, and they do and then

669
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 2: they you know, finally fly over the fence toward their freedom.

670
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 2: And then the movie ends with the chickens living in

671
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 2: like a grassy nook paradise.

672
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 1: Like Chicken Themyscira basically like yeah, except that there's like

673
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: a few men allowed to be there. Yeah, they end

674
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 1: up in chicken paradise the end.

675
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 2: So let's take another break and then we'll come back

676
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 2: to discuss where do we want to begin.

677
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: I think, I mean, I would like to kind of

678
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 1: get the you know, touch on the mel Gibson stuff

679
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 1: at the top and as well as the stuff we've

680
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 1: been just like alluding to the whole time of like

681
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: for me, two of the most crushingly bad things about

682
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: this movie are the fact that mel Gibson is involved.

683
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 1: And I don't don't I don't even want to like

684
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: rehash his crimes here, but he's I mean famously his

685
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: career has been more or less like unfortunately not stopped,

686
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,800
Speaker 1: but you know, impeded significantly by the number of anti

687
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: semitic and missile is and violent things that he's said

688
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 1: over the years. And so unfortunately we've had a discussion

689
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 1: of this sort in our What Women Want episode as well,

690
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 1: because I think that's the other big mel Gibson movie

691
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: that we've covered. Yeah, but nothing, it's it's fucking inexcusable,

692
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: and no matter what we say about this movie, there's

693
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:25,359
Speaker 1: there's no excusing mel Gibson and the fact that he's

694
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 1: still cast and shit today like is inexcuse, like inexcusably bad.

695
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,760
Speaker 1: He should not have a fucking career at the very least.

696
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: So I just wanted to touch on the mel Gibson

697
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 1: stuff at the top, Like, no matter how much love

698
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 1: that we have for this movie, doesn't excuse anything mel

699
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 1: Gibson related, Right, But going off, I guess the number

700
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: one thing, or not the number one but up there

701
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: of like the things of this movie that don't hold

702
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: up for me, is the the chicken love story. You

703
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:00,080
Speaker 1: don't need it.

704
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,360
Speaker 2: Why is there a chicken romance?

705
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 1: Why? Yeah, it's also not like I feel like it's

706
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: interesting because recently on the show, I think we've encountered

707
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:15,760
Speaker 1: actually like a few different heterosexual love stories that felt earned. Yeah,

708
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 1: but this is not one of them. This is not earned.

709
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: This love story sucks and it feels very It feels

710
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: very studio notesy to me because it doesn't really fit

711
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:25,320
Speaker 1: into the story.

712
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 2: Uh uh yeah, for a number of reasons. One that

713
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 2: Rocky spends a large chunk of the movie lying to

714
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 2: all of the chickens.

715
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:38,760
Speaker 1: Classic two thousand rhetoric.

716
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, and specifically Ginger because she's the one, you know,

717
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 2: kind of orchestrating him, teaching them how to fly. She's

718
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 2: negotiating with him, so he's like kind of directly lying

719
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 2: to her first and foremost, he is nagging her and

720
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 2: like you mentioned, calling her, you know, sexist names.

721
00:40:57,719 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 1: And it's kind of dealt with in a very I mean,

722
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: I think unfortunately, it's dealt with better than a teen

723
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,359
Speaker 1: movie of this year would deal with it, because at

724
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 1: least she doesn't like she I don't know. The first

725
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 1: half of this movie. I like how she responds to

726
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: his bullshit, like she is using him for a very

727
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: specific purpose and wants nothing to do with him outside

728
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 1: of his immediate use to the collective that she feels

729
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 1: beholden too. And then it's like the last half hour

730
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 1: of the movie, that whole, like I thought really subversive

731
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 1: setup just totally falls apart, and I'm like, and then

732
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: it just becomes fucking like she's all that of like

733
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:40,879
Speaker 1: or ten things I hate about you? If like, oh,

734
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: this person who like has been nothing but cruel to

735
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 1: me actually loves me and I don't care to dielide

736
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 1: and I don't and I do who care? Apology? Never

737
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: heard of it?

738
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:52,879
Speaker 2: Like right?

739
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:56,879
Speaker 1: Just oh god, why does Rocky have a redemption arc?

740
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,839
Speaker 1: Like get rid of it?

741
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,879
Speaker 2: Get rid of Yeah? He he abandons them in their

742
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 2: like their moment of dire need, like he does everything

743
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 2: wrong every step of the way, does not deserve redemption

744
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:17,479
Speaker 2: the fact that Ginger just like forgives him and yeah,

745
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 2: that whole like burden of forgiveness applies here, Like why

746
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,839
Speaker 2: because again he doesn't even do the bare minimum. Really,

747
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,879
Speaker 2: he just throws a party to like cheer some people up.

748
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: But he does that selfishly too. He does that to

749
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: distract from the fact that he can actually help them, right,

750
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 1: I just it's so frustrating because it's like the burden

751
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 1: of forgiveness thing bothers me even more in the way

752
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:47,359
Speaker 1: it plays out in this movie. Because this isn't saying

753
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: much for Beauty and the Beast, But you know, when

754
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,800
Speaker 1: Belle meets the Beast, she's gonna forgive him one hundred percent,

755
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 1: no doubt in your mind. There's never like, oh, is

756
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: she gonna go her own way here? Because bell is

757
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: not beholden to collective there we have yet to see

758
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: a feminist theme or her interact with a woman. We

759
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: have no reason to believe that she wouldn't like.

760
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 2: And it's a fairy tale going in, so you assume that, Okay,

761
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 2: the main woman, the title woman, and the title man

762
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 2: are probably going to get together at the end.

763
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 1: Exactly. Yeah, it's like Beauty and the Beasts. It's not

764
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 1: like Beauty like bales on the Beast because he's a

765
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 1: fucking asshole. Like that should be the title though, Chicken Run,

766
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:34,439
Speaker 1: Chicken Run, Chicken Run, so waved toxic character like there.

767
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: It just it would have been so easy and more

768
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 1: more like I think, like thematically satisfying to have her.

769
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 1: It just seems like it doesn't make sense with her character,

770
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 1: Like the way she said, she's set up so distinctly

771
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 1: and so strongly as like a character who would not

772
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 1: I keep almost saying a person she's a chicken. She's

773
00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 1: a chicken who would not have any patience for this

774
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 1: kind of shit. And then the second that he like

775
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:05,800
Speaker 1: lies in a way that means he is no longer

776
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 1: useful to her collective mission, she would never talk to

777
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 1: him again. Like, it just doesn't make sense none at all.

778
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 1: It just doesn't make sense other than they talked on

779
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: a roof once, which is another contrivance that it's like,

780
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: oh god, come on.

781
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially like you said, the way that she is

782
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 2: characterized in the beginning is just like having these you know,

783
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 2: strong values and wanting to be autonomous and not be

784
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 2: a cog in the egg machine, right and not that

785
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 2: like someone who you know, a woman who is like

786
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 2: strongly convicted couldn't and wouldn't end up with a romantic partner.

787
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 2: But like she seems to like have a good chicken

788
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:51,840
Speaker 2: head on her shoulders. Yeah, you know, she doesn't tolerate

789
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:55,919
Speaker 2: bullshit from anyone, right, much less a shitty man who

790
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 2: again lies and nags her and abandons her and like,

791
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 2: just like all he does everything wrong. There's nothing about

792
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:08,240
Speaker 2: what her character had been established to be that would

793
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 2: make you think that she would be at all willing

794
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:16,439
Speaker 2: to forgive him right, and yet that's what she does,

795
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 2: even though he does not apologize or hold himself accountable

796
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,320
Speaker 2: at all for anything he did.

797
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: No, I mean in the way that he's like, I

798
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: don't know, Yeah, the whole I want to give the

799
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:36,360
Speaker 1: writer of this movie, who's written a lot while committing

800
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 1: the sin of being a sis man, has written a

801
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 1: lot of like iconic children's movies that I really love.

802
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 2: Wait, what else has he done? I forgot to look

803
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 2: him up.

804
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:48,840
Speaker 1: His name's Carrie Kirkpatrick. He wrote James and the Giant

805
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 1: Peach the movie. He wrote Honey, We Shrunk Ourselves, he

806
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 1: wrote Chicken Run, he wrote The Little Vampire, iconic like,

807
00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 1: He's written a lot of classic kids movies. And he

808
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 1: also wrote and directed small Foot, which was one of

809
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 1: the animated Bigfoot movies that came out a couple of

810
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 1: years ago. And it is the good one?

811
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 2: Is it? The one that was? And Zendaia is me.

812
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 1: Chi, Yes, it is that one he wrote. I mean,

813
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 1: had he not written and directed small Foot, we wouldn't

814
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 1: have Sunday's Meat Chie. So there's a lot, you know,

815
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 1: there's a lot. But he's like, he's written kids movies

816
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 1: that at very at least have stuck with me that

817
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 1: seemed to be like pretty different for their time at

818
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 1: least or not just like you know, fill in the

819
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 1: blank kind of movies. Sure, I wouldn't be surprised, And

820
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 1: maybe I'm giving Carrie Kirkpatrick too much credit here, but like,

821
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:53,399
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if, like in two thousand, Mel

822
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:57,240
Speaker 1: Gibson is this big star, if notes come back of like, well,

823
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 1: we have to have the mel Gibson Rooster character redeemed

824
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: by the end of the movie, and there should be

825
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 1: a love story, because that's pretty standard for these kinds

826
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 1: of movies. But it just, I don't know, it sticks

827
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,799
Speaker 1: out extra unfortunately in a movie that it has so

828
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 1: much like really power, Like the first half of this

829
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: movie is like incredible, and then starting at the point

830
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 1: where Ginger is low key Damsel, I feel like that's

831
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 1: one of the first cracks you sort of see of

832
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,760
Speaker 1: like oh no, oh, no, contrivances are starting to happen.

833
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 1: But I don't know, like a good half of this movie,

834
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:35,919
Speaker 1: I'm just like, fuck, this is really cool, Like yeah, yeah,

835
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:40,720
Speaker 1: so the love story in this one, I can't can't

836
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 1: defend it in any way doesn't make sense with the character.

837
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 1: There's no earned redemption, there's no apology. I don't want

838
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 1: to see chickens kiss period, and especially if those human

839
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 1: teeth in their beaks are all clacking around nasty. Where

840
00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 1: are those teeth rooted? They don't have gums, you know,

841
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:05,319
Speaker 1: hard to know why these dentured chickens are kissing. And

842
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 1: I didn't.

843
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 2: I know why? Why? Well, I know why they have teeth? Oh,

844
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:14,399
Speaker 2: because go on, it's because Jerry Bruckheimer was like, get

845
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 2: these chickens somephon ears.

846
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 1: Oh, that's great foreshadowing for our coyote ugly episode, Jerry Bruckheimer.

847
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 1: That I mean, I knew. I wish I didn't know

848
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: as a Jerry Bruckheimer movie going in, because the second

849
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 1: you see someone's mouth, you're like, well, I know who's

850
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 1: behind this, uh Bruckheimer teeth Lord Michael's and Jerry Bruckheimer like,

851
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:41,439
Speaker 1: someone's gotta someone's gotta hold these men to account about

852
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:43,799
Speaker 1: the whole teeth issue, Like what is wrong with you?

853
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 1: Like sirs creepy old men being like why don't you

854
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 1: get a new mouth, young lady? Like get away from me,

855
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 1: young man. I mean, they don't, they don't discriminate by

856
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 1: gender of who they will force to get a new mouth.

857
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:01,920
Speaker 1: Anyone will get new mouth for these at least there's that,

858
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 1: So that's yeah, they are god so creepy. Anyways. Yeah,

859
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:11,959
Speaker 1: the relationship aspect suck.

860
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 2: Hate it. Get it out of there. You could easily

861
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:17,840
Speaker 2: remove it. The movie would be even better than it is.

862
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 2: And yeah, I hate the chicken romance.

863
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 1: No chicken romance please.

864
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:27,320
Speaker 2: Another thing that I felt was in the same vein

865
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 2: of like why is this here and why did you

866
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 2: make this choice because it goes against everything that had

867
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 2: also been set up about like Ginger especially was when

868
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 2: they're rolling out the Chicken plane at the end of

869
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 2: the movie, see where you go. They engineered themselves, They

870
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 2: designed it themselves, they builded themselves. And then they're like, okay,

871
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 2: we're ready to take off. Fowler, go get into the

872
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 2: pilot's seat because you have to fly this thing. And

873
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:56,359
Speaker 2: he's like, well, I don't know how to do it.

874
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 2: I was I was a mascot in the in the

875
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:01,879
Speaker 2: Air Force, so I can't fly a pilane.

876
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,880
Speaker 1: First of all, you're like, a chicken was a mascot

877
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:07,800
Speaker 1: for the Air Force in World War Two?

878
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:13,760
Speaker 2: What you know what Sorry to all of the UK listeners,

879
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 2: but I would not put it past.

880
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 1: That's really me. That's so funny, that's so funny. Yeah,

881
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 1: sorry UK listeners, but you've.

882
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 2: Got some weird mascots.

883
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. I also found this plot point really frustrating.

884
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So what happens is basically they're like, Fowler,

885
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 2: you need to fly this thing, and he's like, well,

886
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 2: I don't know how to do it, and they're like,

887
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:36,799
Speaker 2: but you're our only hope, and it's like he has

888
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 2: no more experience than any of the other chickens. Why

889
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 2: wouldn't Ginger fly or why wouldn't Mac the brainy stem

890
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 2: chicken fly it.

891
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 1: I thought Mac was the more logical choice for this,

892
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 1: especially because it's like it's one thing like they could have.

893
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just such a weird choice because

894
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:59,800
Speaker 1: on one hand, it's like, I like where that scene

895
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 1: is going, where there's kind of this theme throughout Chicken

896
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 1: Run of men overcompensating and like men putting their pride

897
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 1: first and being deceitful because of their own insecurity and

898
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:15,799
Speaker 1: because of their own pride, and like that's the theme

899
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:18,800
Speaker 1: with Rocky and that's a theme with Fowler. And I

900
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,280
Speaker 1: like that. I think that that's like an interesting dynamic

901
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 1: to play around with. And so Rocky is exposed as

902
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 1: being a fraud. He bails, right, Fowler is exposed as

903
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,440
Speaker 1: being a fraud, and it's like, Okay, I like that

904
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 1: they made that choice because it's like his character kind

905
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:36,840
Speaker 1: of is reflected that the whole time. He's always like,

906
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:38,800
Speaker 1: look at me, look at me. And then if he

907
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:40,360
Speaker 1: has to do anything, he's like, oh, I don't know,

908
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:43,320
Speaker 1: ask Ginger because she's the only as told by Ginger,

909
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:45,320
Speaker 1: it's the only like she's the only person that knows

910
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:50,439
Speaker 1: or chicken. She's not a person, she's a chicken. She's

911
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 1: the only person chicken in the Oh my god, it's

912
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: so stressful. She's the only chicken in the coop that

913
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 1: like is she's like the organizer, right, And yeah, so

914
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 1: I like that his character is kind of exposed as

915
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 1: a fraud. But then it's like, if you're gonna do that,

916
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 1: why immediately in the same scene offer him a redemption

917
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 1: arc Like that's such a weird choice. Yeah, this should

918
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 1: have been like Mac should have been at I mean,

919
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 1: Mac at least had an integral like it seemed like

920
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 1: she was like command control inside of the plane. But

921
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 1: she should have been driving the fucking plane.

922
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 2: Come on, Yeah, I would have liked it way better

923
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 2: if maybe like Fowler sort of like of his own accord,

924
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 2: gets into the pilot's seat, like realizes he can't fly,

925
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 2: and then like Ginger's like, wait, you can't fly, Well,

926
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:41,439
Speaker 2: then get the hell out of there. Hey, Mac, you

927
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:45,760
Speaker 2: engineered this thing. Surely you know how it functions. You

928
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:48,839
Speaker 2: fly the plane. And then she's like, yeah, here I go.

929
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 1: I wanted to. I wanted to see Mac and Ginger

930
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:54,399
Speaker 1: in the front seat of the plane doing the damn

931
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 1: thing like I it's it's frustrating because it's like and

932
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 1: it's not I'm not even saying, like kick Fowler off

933
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 1: the plane, like just put him on a bike. Just

934
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:05,440
Speaker 1: put him on a bike. Yeah, you know, like I

935
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 1: think that you know Fowler, it seems like he is

936
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 1: the kind of character. He is very flawed. He is

937
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 1: like very pompous, but he can be worked with in

938
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:19,799
Speaker 1: a way that I don't think Rocky can. Right, Like

939
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:22,879
Speaker 1: he has like loyalty to the chickens of the coop

940
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 1: at least, and it's like, don't toss him off the plane.

941
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 1: But don't tell him to drive the plane. He just

942
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:31,319
Speaker 1: told you can't drive the plane, like what? And then

943
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:34,280
Speaker 1: I feel like there that was another thing that, Like, God,

944
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 1: most of my problems with this movie are in the

945
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 1: last ten minutes, which is frustrating because I just like,

946
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:44,799
Speaker 1: it's such a chicken run is so good, but like,

947
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:49,320
Speaker 1: if we're if we're if we're pecking it apart. Wow,

948
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:51,200
Speaker 1: I know.

949
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 2: It's catching cocka doodle do, cock a doodle do? Tell

950
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:02,359
Speaker 2: more one of the cockodoodle doos and cocka doodle don'ts

951
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:03,399
Speaker 2: of chicken run?

952
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:07,240
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Wait, now I forgot. I was gonna say,

953
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry for no, We're just making so many perfect,

954
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:15,360
Speaker 1: hilarious jokes. Wait, there was something. Wait, I'll get a.

955
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 2: Chicken pun chicken instead a chicken run.

956
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 1: Okay, wait Fowler. Fuck. I don't know. I don't know

957
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:31,319
Speaker 1: it had something to do with Fowler. I don't know. Sorry, Oh,

958
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 1: I'll figure it out of Itally, I just I got

959
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 1: so taken in. Yeah, I don't know. I guess. It

960
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 1: just seems like this movie was making really interesting points

961
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:48,319
Speaker 1: about masculinity and the expectations of masculinity, but then they

962
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:50,839
Speaker 1: just kind of offered all the male characters who had

963
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:56,799
Speaker 1: displayed those traits in immediate redemption arc at the very

964
00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:58,839
Speaker 1: end for no reason, for.

965
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 2: No reason, completely under like they did nothing to earn.

966
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 1: I think, like, honestly, I think that like I would

967
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 1: have accepted a Fowler redemption act if he had had

968
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 1: to work for it, and if he had had to

969
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,880
Speaker 1: like accept Oh I remember, I was gonna say, but

970
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 1: if he had had to like be humbled in some

971
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 1: way instead of being constant like that was his arc,

972
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 1: was that he was not humble even though he didn't

973
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 1: know how to do anything right, Like, so that should

974
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 1: be the resolution of like, Okay, we don't hate you Fowler,

975
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 1: but like sit down, you know, like yeah, that's but

976
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 1: that doesn't happen. Oh, so that was okay. So what

977
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 1: I was gonna say is, in the majority of this movie,

978
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:43,480
Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting and like generally kind of

979
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:48,400
Speaker 1: cool how the chickens. The chickens are not like Mary

980
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 1: sued at any point where it's not like they suddenly

981
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:54,600
Speaker 1: know how to get out of the coup. They suddenly

982
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 1: like they pick up a whatever and all of a

983
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:00,920
Speaker 1: sudden they're superheroes and they like you see them working

984
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 1: closer to their goal. You see them try and fail,

985
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 1: you understand kind of what their journey is. But then

986
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 1: at the end, Fowler is Mary Souon where all of

987
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 1: a sudden he's like, I don't know how to ride

988
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 1: a plane. Two seconds later he's like, I'm driving the

989
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:19,759
Speaker 1: plane right. How though, Like it's for a movie that

990
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:23,800
Speaker 1: seemed pretty conscious of like showing the character arcs of

991
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:26,640
Speaker 1: like how they're getting closer and closer and closer to

992
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:30,480
Speaker 1: knowing how to do what they need to. Hm, it's

993
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 1: such a weird last minute choice to just be like,

994
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:35,440
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, this character that never gets his

995
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:38,759
Speaker 1: ego checked once, even though it seems like that's where

996
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:42,400
Speaker 1: the character is going, right, can suddenly magically drive a plane.

997
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:44,800
Speaker 1: Like it's just weird.

998
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:49,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, like you said, Mac, we it's established

999
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:53,520
Speaker 2: that Mac is the brainy chicken and stem she does

1000
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 2: complex you know, calculus and physics equations and all you know, geometry.

1001
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:02,240
Speaker 2: Who knows what all she's even.

1002
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:04,240
Speaker 1: Doing bits of shit. It's out of my pay grade.

1003
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 2: I don't know, right, But they're like, yeah, byye, but

1004
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:11,799
Speaker 2: she she understands thrust, you know, she like designs this

1005
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 2: catapult and then she's put in charge of engineering this thing. Babs,

1006
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 2: who is seen constantly knitting, is in charge of manufacturing.

1007
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:26,080
Speaker 2: And like other chickens are you know, getting the material.

1008
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 2: They're like all doing something in contributing.

1009
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 1: Which I appreciated that that was paid off on too.

1010
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 1: That like her because the knitting thing, it's like, oh

1011
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 1: you could. I was like, is this a reductive thing?

1012
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:37,480
Speaker 1: What's happening? What's happening? What's happening? But then like that

1013
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 1: that plant and payoff baby, she's like she's a textile manufacturer.

1014
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 2: She sees the.

1015
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 1: Means of productions in her little chicken hands.

1016
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 2: M h.

1017
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 1: I love her.

1018
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:52,840
Speaker 2: Yes, So yeah, that was disappointing to me that they

1019
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 2: did that whole thing with Fowler. And then the the

1020
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 2: other thing that we already talked about a bit and

1021
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 2: we don't need to reh too much was just the

1022
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 2: you know, women need to be saved by men, even

1023
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 2: when they're all chickens so like.

1024
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:10,919
Speaker 1: Which is frustrating because it's like Ginger is so set

1025
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 1: up to be able to do it that there's really

1026
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:17,640
Speaker 1: like I was, I was able to get as far

1027
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:23,920
Speaker 1: as like, Okay, I understand why Ginger would enlist Rocky's help,

1028
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 1: but the second she finds out he's a fraud, I

1029
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 1: have no like we no longer have any narrative excuse

1030
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:34,520
Speaker 1: to like have him even in the story, Like right.

1031
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't I don't mind that she enlists his

1032
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 2: help because he seems to be able to fly and

1033
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 2: they need to learn how to do that, and.

1034
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 1: We've already seen them try and fail so many times

1035
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 1: that it's like, oh, okay, Like narratively, it like she

1036
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 1: will you know anything that seems promising, she will try

1037
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:52,360
Speaker 1: mm hmm.

1038
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:54,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I don't mind that at all. I'm talking

1039
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:57,480
Speaker 2: more just specifically about the she gets put in the

1040
00:58:57,560 --> 00:59:01,280
Speaker 2: chicken pie machine and Rocky like goes in after her,

1041
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:04,480
Speaker 2: and yeah, like her feet are stuck in the dough.

1042
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 2: She he has to pull her out of the dough

1043
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 2: before she gets crushed. They're about to get splatted by gravy.

1044
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 2: He takes like a vegetable and like crams it into

1045
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 2: the gravy machine. At the very end of that sequence,

1046
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:21,160
Speaker 2: she does pull him out of the pie and get

1047
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:23,480
Speaker 2: him out of the oven. So she does one thing,

1048
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:26,720
Speaker 2: but it's mostly him rescuing her.

1049
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:30,200
Speaker 1: And the thing is like there, see I wasn't. Yeah,

1050
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:32,439
Speaker 1: I mean we already kind of ash. I wasn't keeping

1051
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 1: track of like who is doing how much in that scene.

1052
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:37,280
Speaker 1: But the whole time I was watching that scene, I

1053
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:40,760
Speaker 1: was like, this should be like Mac, or this should

1054
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:44,520
Speaker 1: be like I guess that it's that's okay. I guess that.

1055
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 1: That's kind of like the last kind of issue I

1056
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 1: have with how the Chicken Collective is written at times, right,

1057
00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:57,400
Speaker 1: they are sometimes written too and it's like, God, everyone

1058
00:59:57,440 --> 00:59:59,960
Speaker 1: take this with a grave of salt, because it is funny,

1059
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 1: like a grain a chicken feed can feed. But like

1060
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 1: the chickens are I think framed as being like quote

1061
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 1: unquote hysterical at times where they are put in. I mean,

1062
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:19,000
Speaker 1: the thing is like the steaks are very high, and

1063
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:22,480
Speaker 1: so it's not like they're overreacting, but they are often

1064
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:27,640
Speaker 1: like ah, like they're they're always panicking, which which makes sense.

1065
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 2: Very funny to look at.

1066
01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 1: It's so the thing is, it's so funny to watch

1067
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 1: the chickens panic, and so I'm like hah. Then I'm

1068
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:37,720
Speaker 1: also like, but wait a second, wait a minute, this

1069
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:41,120
Speaker 1: podcast has destroyed my brain. I can no longer enjoy

1070
01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:44,320
Speaker 1: cartoon chickens running around I have to be like, but

1071
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:47,000
Speaker 1: what are the implications of the cartoon chickens running around?

1072
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:49,720
Speaker 2: Let's the inherent sexism here?

1073
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think there is something like there is

1074
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 1: like the chickens are sometimes made out to be like

1075
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 1: I think like humorously overreacting, right, if we're saying, you

1076
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 1: know that a lot of these like these chickens are

1077
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:04,640
Speaker 1: drawn from life, human life, so that we were to

1078
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 1: imagine a group of women panicking and running around, and

1079
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:11,360
Speaker 1: I think that it's kind of most egregious. And when

1080
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 1: Rocky is like I've got this and no one kind

1081
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 1: of stands up to be like, well, Gingers are like leader,

1082
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:20,920
Speaker 1: like she's our leader, Like no one offers to go

1083
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:24,440
Speaker 1: with him, there's no like it just seemed almost.

1084
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 2: Like they like volunteer him, right, They're like, you have

1085
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 2: to go do it, Rocky.

1086
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 1: Which strikes me as like a little cowardly of the

1087
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:35,680
Speaker 1: chickens of like Ginger is addicted to putting her life

1088
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:39,479
Speaker 1: on the line for all of you chickens, Like why

1089
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 1: are none of the chickens like let's make sure, Like

1090
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:45,680
Speaker 1: I just kind of wish that in that scenario, I

1091
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:49,520
Speaker 1: don't even like hate. I think that it's like plot wise,

1092
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:54,120
Speaker 1: seeing the how how dire the chicken machine is and

1093
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 1: how scary it is, like that is a valuable plot point.

1094
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:00,800
Speaker 1: But you know, it's like maybe Fowler could have been

1095
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:04,920
Speaker 1: kidnapped or one of the chickens could have gone to

1096
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 1: like navigate their way out with Ginger. Like I just

1097
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:12,040
Speaker 1: ultimately the fact that the chicken knife machine pop pie

1098
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 1: scene ends up serving the romantic narrative. I just didn't like.

1099
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:17,920
Speaker 1: I don't hate that the scene happens. Yeah, I was

1100
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:19,880
Speaker 1: so scared of it when I was a kid, and

1101
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 1: I would have been just as scared if it was

1102
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:25,040
Speaker 1: like Mac or Babs or like whomstever else. And it

1103
01:02:25,080 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 1: also makes more logical plot sense to me that one

1104
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:33,200
Speaker 1: of her like lifelong chicken friends would go I don't know.

1105
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:37,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think my fix would be if well, then

1106
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 2: mister Tweety is like I know, oh, I know, just

1107
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:43,440
Speaker 2: the chicken because he has a vendetta against Ginger, so

1108
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:47,160
Speaker 2: it makes sense that Ginger are in solitary right exactly.

1109
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:50,320
Speaker 2: I think my fix would just be like Gingers able

1110
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:55,200
Speaker 2: to save herself, because we've seen her be very resourceful

1111
01:02:56,040 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 2: this whole movie. Can't she just for self and get

1112
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:03,560
Speaker 2: herself out because yea, the function it serves in the

1113
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 2: story for Rocky to save her does sort of ignite

1114
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:10,160
Speaker 2: their romance, which doesn't need to be in the movie.

1115
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:13,280
Speaker 1: Their trauma bonded chickens. You're like, I don't need this,

1116
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:16,280
Speaker 1: or even if we need to have Rocky show up,

1117
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:19,200
Speaker 1: maybe he shows up and he's completely useless because that's

1118
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:21,720
Speaker 1: kind of his thing. And then she's She's like, oh great,

1119
01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:23,200
Speaker 1: now it's twice as hard for us to get out

1120
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:25,840
Speaker 1: of this chicken machine. You fucking lose her like there.

1121
01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:30,080
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just like, yeah, I don't like

1122
01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:33,000
Speaker 1: because it's I think that that's such a scary effective

1123
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:36,560
Speaker 1: scene and to have it service this like I don't know,

1124
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:39,240
Speaker 1: romantic subplot that we both hate. I was just like, man,

1125
01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:48,800
Speaker 1: don't love it. Should we talk about things we love about? Yes? Kay? Okay?

1126
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:53,400
Speaker 1: I read a lot. There's like kind of a stunning

1127
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:57,000
Speaker 1: amount of think pieces about Chicken run oh, which I

1128
01:03:57,120 --> 01:04:00,560
Speaker 1: do love because I had all these that I'm like,

1129
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:01,680
Speaker 1: are these irrational?

1130
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:02,040
Speaker 2: Am I?

1131
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:04,800
Speaker 1: And And some of them were and I won't bring

1132
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:10,000
Speaker 1: them up, but others were. Okay, So I do feel

1133
01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:13,560
Speaker 1: pretty confident and I'm pulling I'm gonna be reading from

1134
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:18,600
Speaker 1: uh two pieces. One is from Bitch Media by Dehan

1135
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:23,840
Speaker 1: Jotanovic and the other is from Film School Rejects by

1136
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:29,680
Speaker 1: Brianna Ziggler that kind of comment on the either the

1137
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:32,440
Speaker 1: like hyper feminists or because I kind of went into

1138
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:34,280
Speaker 1: Chicken Run being like, oh, this is like a really

1139
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:39,600
Speaker 1: feminist movie, but it's also a really like I'm gonna

1140
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:41,680
Speaker 1: quote the piece because I always like it's a very

1141
01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 1: anti capitalist piece of g rated children's art, which is

1142
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:50,640
Speaker 1: so fucking cool, like yeah, yeah, And and Brianna Ziggler

1143
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:53,600
Speaker 1: in particular gets like full on into like Marxist theory,

1144
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:56,520
Speaker 1: which is like locate out of my pay grate, but

1145
01:04:56,600 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 1: like she is, she is right where it's like I

1146
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:03,880
Speaker 1: did you read Animal Farm in high school? I did, so,

1147
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:07,320
Speaker 1: Like there we were confronted with kind of an Animal

1148
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:12,840
Speaker 1: Farm style situation here, right, And it's based on literally

1149
01:05:13,040 --> 01:05:16,800
Speaker 1: a movie called The Great Escape about people like escaping

1150
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:21,680
Speaker 1: a prisoner of war World War II camp, and so

1151
01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:24,880
Speaker 1: it's like pulling from some pretty dark stuff. So I

1152
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:28,800
Speaker 1: just want to read a section of Brianna Zigler discussing

1153
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:36,240
Speaker 1: the Marxist themes in Chicken Run because I truly do firmly. Like, Yeah,

1154
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:39,439
Speaker 1: Ginger reminds me of every DSA chapter leader I've ever

1155
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:44,400
Speaker 1: interacted with. Like, Okay, So here's what Brianna says. Quote

1156
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:48,200
Speaker 1: the Tweeties farm and their chickens mirror the oft maligned

1157
01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:51,680
Speaker 1: working environments and practices of our modern day capitalist society.

1158
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:54,320
Speaker 1: We're only valuable to our bosses as long as we

1159
01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:57,640
Speaker 1: can provide them with labor and therefore profit. As soon

1160
01:05:57,640 --> 01:06:01,160
Speaker 1: as we aren't profitable, we're disposable and reply. Thus this

1161
01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:05,360
Speaker 1: idea of Marxist theory inherent within chicken run, the objective

1162
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:08,760
Speaker 1: of Marxism being the self emancipation of the working class

1163
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:13,720
Speaker 1: i e. The chickens. German philosopher Karl Marx believed in

1164
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:16,760
Speaker 1: a socialist revolution in order to bring about control of

1165
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:21,840
Speaker 1: political power for the proletariat. The dictatorship of the proletariat,

1166
01:06:21,880 --> 01:06:25,280
Speaker 1: as he called it, would give the proletary public ownership

1167
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:32,200
Speaker 1: of the means of production, distribution, and exchange. I'll skip

1168
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:36,840
Speaker 1: down a little bit. It gets pretty dense. Part of

1169
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:39,960
Speaker 1: Marxist theory also includes this idea of seizing the means

1170
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:43,040
Speaker 1: of production. Means of production being what is used to

1171
01:06:43,080 --> 01:06:46,080
Speaker 1: produce goods and seizing them, as in taking control and

1172
01:06:46,200 --> 01:06:48,800
Speaker 1: using them for the greater good instead of personal gain

1173
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:53,680
Speaker 1: as with capitalism. Thus, the chicken's entire bodies are the

1174
01:06:53,720 --> 01:06:56,720
Speaker 1: Tweedy's means of producing goods as well as being the

1175
01:06:56,720 --> 01:06:59,800
Speaker 1: goods themselves. In the end, the chicken's ultimate way of

1176
01:06:59,840 --> 01:07:03,520
Speaker 1: the escape relies entirely on their bodies hand powering a

1177
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:08,480
Speaker 1: plane they built all by themselves unquote. So it's like,

1178
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:14,280
Speaker 1: also this incredible labor story where like, you know, I

1179
01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:16,600
Speaker 1: feel like missus Tweety is kind of like a classically

1180
01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 1: evil hyper capitalist villain, right, and I think that it

1181
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:24,880
Speaker 1: framed even slightly differently. She's basically a girl boss, right,

1182
01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:27,400
Speaker 1: where she's like, I'm going to start my own business

1183
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:30,200
Speaker 1: and like, yes, ladies, let's grind these chickens to death,

1184
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:34,520
Speaker 1: like that kind of vibe where she is motivated by

1185
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:39,000
Speaker 1: personal profit. And then the chickens like they are basically

1186
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:42,440
Speaker 1: performing some form of like unpaid prison labor. They are

1187
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:47,480
Speaker 1: held captive. They are used strictly for what they can produce,

1188
01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:49,840
Speaker 1: which at first is their eggs, which are immediately sees

1189
01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:53,600
Speaker 1: from them, with the only exchange being food, you know,

1190
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:57,680
Speaker 1: the ability to continue to live and produce, which already

1191
01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:00,520
Speaker 1: you're like, okay, this is a labor story. And then

1192
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:03,480
Speaker 1: when they are no longer useful to produce eggs, they

1193
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:07,960
Speaker 1: are then harvested for the personal profit of missus tweety.

1194
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:11,280
Speaker 1: So yeah, I just thought it was like a really

1195
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:16,080
Speaker 1: heady but fascinating point that, like the means of production

1196
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:20,439
Speaker 1: at first are the chickens' abilities to produce eggs, and

1197
01:08:20,479 --> 01:08:25,200
Speaker 1: then eventually the means of production once it becomes clear

1198
01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:29,679
Speaker 1: that it's actually more profitable to just mercilessly harvest the chickens,

1199
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:32,760
Speaker 1: the means of production becomes their actual bodies, and so

1200
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:36,280
Speaker 1: then using their bodies to escape is also seizing the

1201
01:08:36,320 --> 01:08:40,280
Speaker 1: means of production. Like strictly by having bodily autonomy, the

1202
01:08:40,439 --> 01:08:44,920
Speaker 1: chickens of Chicken Run have reclaimed the means of production

1203
01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:47,960
Speaker 1: and they can self determine what they want to do

1204
01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:52,439
Speaker 1: with their lives on Chicken Island. I just so shout

1205
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:55,160
Speaker 1: out to Breonna Ziglai. I will send you this link

1206
01:08:55,640 --> 01:08:59,320
Speaker 1: so we'll have it in the description as well. But

1207
01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:02,360
Speaker 1: it was phrasing things that I didn't quite have like

1208
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:08,160
Speaker 1: the Marxist vocabulary to say. But it's like, fuck, yeah,

1209
01:09:08,320 --> 01:09:11,360
Speaker 1: It's like on top of the fact that we are

1210
01:09:11,400 --> 01:09:16,960
Speaker 1: living in a chicken matriarchy. They literally like liberate themselves

1211
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:18,880
Speaker 1: from capitalism.

1212
01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:23,440
Speaker 2: It's yeah, it's amazing, it's amazing. I like the commentary

1213
01:09:23,439 --> 01:09:28,040
Speaker 2: too on. So not only is Missus Tweety this like,

1214
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:34,160
Speaker 2: you know, capitalist stooge bourgeois owning and controlling the means

1215
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:39,840
Speaker 2: of production villain. She also she's like explaining the branding

1216
01:09:40,240 --> 01:09:42,640
Speaker 2: that she wants to do for the chicken pies that

1217
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:45,080
Speaker 2: she intends to sell, and she's like, yeah, they're going

1218
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:48,840
Speaker 2: to be called Missus Tweety's chicken pies and her husband

1219
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:53,080
Speaker 2: her husband is like missus and she's like, yeah, a

1220
01:09:53,160 --> 01:09:56,720
Speaker 2: woman's touch makes the public seem more comfortable. So she

1221
01:09:56,880 --> 01:10:01,840
Speaker 2: understands like marketing, but also like she understands like the

1222
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:04,920
Speaker 2: patriarchal structure that her chicken pies are going to be

1223
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:06,960
Speaker 2: like distributed and sold to.

1224
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:11,639
Speaker 1: She's literally a girl boss. She's a chicken girl boss.

1225
01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:16,000
Speaker 1: Like she understands the patriarchal structure, and instead of using

1226
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:20,400
Speaker 1: that understanding to liberate herself and other people she's operating,

1227
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 1: she's continuing to operate inside of it in order to

1228
01:10:23,120 --> 01:10:27,280
Speaker 1: turn a profit for herself. Personally, she's a girl boss,

1229
01:10:27,400 --> 01:10:33,160
Speaker 1: and I really like that her downfall is underestimating the chickens,

1230
01:10:33,280 --> 01:10:37,200
Speaker 1: like she That's where I'm just like, Okay, Carrie Kirkpatrick,

1231
01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:41,800
Speaker 1: are you a socialist? Because like the especially with how

1232
01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:45,720
Speaker 1: the tweeties talk like the chickens the chickens do, they

1233
01:10:45,760 --> 01:10:50,280
Speaker 1: are the chickens are socialists, but it's kind of like

1234
01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:53,920
Speaker 1: worded a little more ambiguously for them. But when the

1235
01:10:53,960 --> 01:10:57,240
Speaker 1: tweeties are talking, I'm like, this guy took a couple

1236
01:10:57,400 --> 01:11:01,160
Speaker 1: courses because like mister Tweety is made out to be

1237
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:04,880
Speaker 1: really paranoid for saying like the chickens are organized, like

1238
01:11:04,920 --> 01:11:08,280
Speaker 1: the chickens are going, they're like plotting their escape. And

1239
01:11:08,320 --> 01:11:11,479
Speaker 1: the reason that missus Tweety ultimately or part of the

1240
01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:14,280
Speaker 1: reason the chickens are able to seize their bodily autonomy

1241
01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:18,920
Speaker 1: and build a plane, is because missus Tweety doesn't believe

1242
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:24,400
Speaker 1: that the chickens are intelligent enough, like the underclass chickens

1243
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:29,440
Speaker 1: being beneath humans. Yes, that the underclass is like intelligent

1244
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:34,720
Speaker 1: or motivated enough to organize and rise up, And so

1245
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:37,519
Speaker 1: I liked that that's like that's made explicitly clear, like

1246
01:11:38,160 --> 01:11:40,960
Speaker 1: a bunch of times that missus Tweety does not believe

1247
01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:46,480
Speaker 1: that people, not people with their chickens, that living creatures

1248
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:50,680
Speaker 1: she views as lesser than and less intelligent than her

1249
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:54,800
Speaker 1: could possibly outwit her, which I feel like you can

1250
01:11:54,840 --> 01:11:58,920
Speaker 1: apply that. I mean, that applies to a wide array

1251
01:11:59,080 --> 01:12:03,080
Speaker 1: of historical risings. But right, I like, how I I

1252
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:05,800
Speaker 1: think that missus tweety and and mister Tweety, I mean

1253
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:09,680
Speaker 1: they're both kind of villains in that you get kind

1254
01:12:09,720 --> 01:12:12,160
Speaker 1: of two kinds of capitalist villains. You have like the

1255
01:12:12,200 --> 01:12:14,160
Speaker 1: super motivated one and then you have the kind of

1256
01:12:14,160 --> 01:12:15,760
Speaker 1: the bystander.

1257
01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:19,920
Speaker 2: Right, so just sort of like passively participating, and.

1258
01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:23,120
Speaker 1: Like, to mister Tweety's credit, he does notice that the

1259
01:12:23,200 --> 01:12:27,080
Speaker 1: chickens are organized. It's just no one believes mister Tweety.

1260
01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:30,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, missus Tweety's gaslighting him the whole time. She's like,

1261
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:34,599
Speaker 2: it's all in your head to her own detriment. Yeah, yeah,

1262
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:38,080
Speaker 2: she should have just listened. Believe mister Tweety.

1263
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:44,839
Speaker 1: Believe mister Tweety's believe. How did you feel when mister Tweety? Okay,

1264
01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:48,320
Speaker 1: this was kind of I was like, oh, how did

1265
01:12:48,360 --> 01:12:50,880
Speaker 1: you feel when mister Tweety was very willing to let

1266
01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:55,800
Speaker 1: his wife die. At the end, I was like, kind

1267
01:12:55,800 --> 01:12:59,519
Speaker 1: of always just like, I guess she's not nice to you,

1268
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:02,519
Speaker 1: but you're like benefiting from everything she's doing. Like I

1269
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:05,600
Speaker 1: kind of didn't. I was like, mister Tweety, that's like

1270
01:13:06,360 --> 01:13:08,720
Speaker 1: fucked up. You're just gonna let your wife get all

1271
01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:09,519
Speaker 1: ground up.

1272
01:13:09,880 --> 01:13:13,160
Speaker 2: I think he is. He's had it up to here

1273
01:13:13,560 --> 01:13:17,639
Speaker 2: with her gaslighting him and just being cruel to him

1274
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:21,760
Speaker 2: and making unreasonable demands of him the whole movie, and

1275
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:25,320
Speaker 2: she's and he's just like, you know what, I've had enough.

1276
01:13:25,240 --> 01:13:28,000
Speaker 1: Off of their head. I just like, I guess I

1277
01:13:29,160 --> 01:13:31,880
Speaker 1: don't know, not that I have this like well of

1278
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:35,320
Speaker 1: sympathy for missus Tweety, but I'm like, damn, the one

1279
01:13:35,400 --> 01:13:38,680
Speaker 1: person who she thought was her ride or die was

1280
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:41,679
Speaker 1: very willing to let her get turned into a pot pie.

1281
01:13:42,160 --> 01:13:44,639
Speaker 1: Yeah she does live. That also felt very g random.

1282
01:13:44,720 --> 01:13:46,439
Speaker 1: She doesn't get ground up. She lives, but then she

1283
01:13:46,479 --> 01:13:48,880
Speaker 1: also gets crushed by a wall, so maybe she does die.

1284
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:51,400
Speaker 2: So maybe she does die. Hard to say, I have

1285
01:13:51,800 --> 01:13:55,240
Speaker 2: three jokes that I love in particular in this movie.

1286
01:13:55,320 --> 01:13:59,320
Speaker 2: One of them is toward the end when mister Tweety

1287
01:13:59,360 --> 01:14:01,800
Speaker 2: goes to all the chickens to put them through the

1288
01:14:01,880 --> 01:14:05,559
Speaker 2: chicken pie machine. They're like, what's the plan, Ginger, and

1289
01:14:05,600 --> 01:14:08,559
Speaker 2: she's like attack, so they all attack him and he's

1290
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:11,360
Speaker 2: like in the background flailing around like all covered in

1291
01:14:11,439 --> 01:14:15,480
Speaker 2: chickens and he's like, the chickens are revolting, missus tweety,

1292
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:18,680
Speaker 2: and she says, finally something we can agree on.

1293
01:14:19,400 --> 01:14:24,040
Speaker 1: The wordplay that is really funny, Yeah, amazing iconic.

1294
01:14:24,400 --> 01:14:27,880
Speaker 2: And then also my two other favorite jokes are when

1295
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:30,160
Speaker 2: the chickens are trying to learn to fly and they're

1296
01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:33,879
Speaker 2: just sort of like falling everywhere. One of the rats

1297
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:38,760
Speaker 2: is like, it's raining. Hen hilarious, right, I love I

1298
01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:45,080
Speaker 2: love a pun. And then this one unfortunately works because

1299
01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:51,360
Speaker 2: mel Gibson being cast as Rocky. So I'm but after

1300
01:14:51,479 --> 01:14:55,879
Speaker 2: Rocky is exposed as a fraud, I think it's Bunty

1301
01:14:56,040 --> 01:14:58,519
Speaker 2: says I knew he was fake all along. In fact,

1302
01:14:58,560 --> 01:15:01,040
Speaker 2: I'm not even certain he was a mayor, which is

1303
01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:04,280
Speaker 2: funny because mel Gibson is also not American, but he's

1304
01:15:04,320 --> 01:15:05,360
Speaker 2: doing an American access.

1305
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:09,320
Speaker 1: Oh I didn't realize that that.

1306
01:15:09,520 --> 01:15:11,880
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's intentional, but I was like,

1307
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:16,240
Speaker 2: so God, that's such a peak Mel Gibson joke that

1308
01:15:16,280 --> 01:15:18,880
Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, to be there there.

1309
01:15:18,960 --> 01:15:24,679
Speaker 1: I also had a whole section that about how Rocky

1310
01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:32,200
Speaker 1: the Rooster represents the hollow promises of the American dream

1311
01:15:32,520 --> 01:15:34,760
Speaker 1: enlighten me. I won't take as long as I did

1312
01:15:34,840 --> 01:15:38,360
Speaker 1: for the chickens being socialists, which they were.

1313
01:15:38,320 --> 01:15:41,200
Speaker 2: But that's fine. I have my own little allegory that

1314
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:41,920
Speaker 2: I'd like to share.

1315
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:45,640
Speaker 1: But okay, great, go on. Yeah. I also had a

1316
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:48,840
Speaker 1: little thing that I wrote down and I was like, Okay,

1317
01:15:48,840 --> 01:15:50,680
Speaker 1: if I can find one writer that has mentioned this,

1318
01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:54,679
Speaker 1: I will say it on the show. So okay. So

1319
01:15:55,120 --> 01:15:59,880
Speaker 1: you know we're on a chicken farm somewhere in England, right,

1320
01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:02,800
Speaker 1: We're in the UK. At least we know that there

1321
01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:06,160
Speaker 1: are Scottish chickens there, so it's kind of ambiguous where

1322
01:16:06,160 --> 01:16:11,639
Speaker 1: it is. Anyways, an American chicken shows up, right, he

1323
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:15,160
Speaker 1: kind of flies out of the sky quote unquote, and

1324
01:16:15,439 --> 01:16:18,479
Speaker 1: he promises all these amazing things, and he's like, I

1325
01:16:18,479 --> 01:16:20,919
Speaker 1: can do this, I can do that. I've seen everything,

1326
01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:25,400
Speaker 1: I've been everywhere, I've lived this really rich and satisfying life.

1327
01:16:25,800 --> 01:16:30,080
Speaker 1: It turns out that he has been deceitful and that

1328
01:16:30,680 --> 01:16:35,320
Speaker 1: there's nothing behind all these huge promises that he's made

1329
01:16:35,360 --> 01:16:37,840
Speaker 1: to them, and he's kind of like made off on this,

1330
01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:42,120
Speaker 1: you know, reputation of being this like intrepid American when

1331
01:16:42,160 --> 01:16:46,240
Speaker 1: in fact, you know, he is completely lost in his

1332
01:16:46,400 --> 01:16:49,000
Speaker 1: life and he is strictly running on this like hyper

1333
01:16:49,080 --> 01:16:53,559
Speaker 1: masculine American image and it ends up being false and

1334
01:16:53,600 --> 01:16:57,960
Speaker 1: all the layers are pulled back. So I wrote down

1335
01:16:59,560 --> 01:17:04,240
Speaker 1: Rocky the Rooster better example of false American dream than

1336
01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:10,800
Speaker 1: Great Gatsby. Oohoo, hot take, Oh wow, hot take. I

1337
01:17:10,840 --> 01:17:14,280
Speaker 1: think you know goodness eighty four minutes and you get

1338
01:17:14,320 --> 01:17:18,000
Speaker 1: the message way easier than reading The Great Gatsby.

1339
01:17:18,800 --> 01:17:23,479
Speaker 2: I like all of our references to orwell, we've read above.

1340
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:27,080
Speaker 2: We've got an f Scott Fitzgerald in there. Okay, we

1341
01:17:27,120 --> 01:17:27,800
Speaker 2: haven't readst in.

1342
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:29,960
Speaker 1: We went to an American high school.

1343
01:17:30,280 --> 01:17:34,120
Speaker 2: Okay, but don't get used to it, because I won't

1344
01:17:34,120 --> 01:17:36,559
Speaker 2: be reading any more books I've read.

1345
01:17:36,600 --> 01:17:40,640
Speaker 1: That's why we're not doing Jane Austin January, because we

1346
01:17:40,760 --> 01:17:43,439
Speaker 1: don't want to read a book. Don't make us Oh

1347
01:17:43,479 --> 01:17:44,760
Speaker 1: my god.

1348
01:17:46,680 --> 01:17:49,720
Speaker 2: No, I yeah, I like that. That works for me.

1349
01:17:50,080 --> 01:17:55,160
Speaker 1: What was your allegorical connection? I'm excited this is maybe

1350
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:58,960
Speaker 1: me reaching. Okay, I'm perfectly willing to admit that, but

1351
01:17:59,120 --> 01:18:03,120
Speaker 1: because you know, I was rewatching this through the Bechdel lens,

1352
01:18:03,439 --> 01:18:06,800
Speaker 1: I was also thinking that the chicken farm could be

1353
01:18:06,840 --> 01:18:12,040
Speaker 1: interpreted as like an allegory for the patriarchy, and by

1354
01:18:12,040 --> 01:18:15,000
Speaker 1: that I mean like the institution of the farm, like

1355
01:18:15,080 --> 01:18:19,599
Speaker 1: not its occupants, but the farm as an institution, and

1356
01:18:20,160 --> 01:18:24,360
Speaker 1: how it's like physically made to be very restrictive, like

1357
01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:30,080
Speaker 1: a prison, especially because the expectation for the chickens is

1358
01:18:30,200 --> 01:18:35,839
Speaker 1: to use their bodies to produce something that this institution wants,

1359
01:18:36,439 --> 01:18:42,720
Speaker 1: much like the way the patriarchy historically for millennia has

1360
01:18:42,760 --> 01:18:47,120
Speaker 1: expected that the role that women take on in society

1361
01:18:47,360 --> 01:18:50,920
Speaker 1: is to bear children and raise them. And that's not

1362
01:18:51,040 --> 01:18:53,920
Speaker 1: exactly what the chickens are doing in this movie, but

1363
01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:59,200
Speaker 1: it's still this like patriarchal expectation for anyone with eggs

1364
01:18:59,240 --> 01:19:04,679
Speaker 1: in their bodies to use their bodies to incubate either

1365
01:19:05,320 --> 01:19:09,360
Speaker 1: like the eggs themselves or like human babies that come

1366
01:19:09,400 --> 01:19:14,400
Speaker 1: from egg cells. And you know, for human women, historically,

1367
01:19:14,439 --> 01:19:17,360
Speaker 1: that's been the role that we've been ascribed and that's

1368
01:19:17,439 --> 01:19:23,240
Speaker 1: what value we have been seen to have in society. Yeah,

1369
01:19:23,280 --> 01:19:27,280
Speaker 1: and not much beyond that. And obviously that's less true

1370
01:19:27,400 --> 01:19:32,320
Speaker 1: for human women today. But I still think this allegorical

1371
01:19:32,439 --> 01:19:36,360
Speaker 1: patriarchy argument works. Oh for sure. I think it's like

1372
01:19:36,439 --> 01:19:41,519
Speaker 1: run by a woman, but it absolutely is a patriarchal structure. Like, yeah,

1373
01:19:41,560 --> 01:19:43,639
Speaker 1: just because a women's at the top doesn't mean it's

1374
01:19:43,680 --> 01:19:45,960
Speaker 1: feminists for the last time.

1375
01:19:46,439 --> 01:19:53,559
Speaker 2: People, Right, women can still uphold patriarchal standards. We've said

1376
01:19:53,600 --> 01:19:54,639
Speaker 2: it before, we'll say it again.

1377
01:19:54,840 --> 01:19:58,680
Speaker 1: And that kind of echoes like turf ideology too, of

1378
01:19:58,760 --> 01:20:01,760
Speaker 1: like defining womanhood by the ability to reproduce, which is

1379
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:04,599
Speaker 1: how a lot of you know, like turfs kind of

1380
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:09,720
Speaker 1: continue to perpetuate harm towards trans women and like, you know,

1381
01:20:09,960 --> 01:20:13,400
Speaker 1: saying that being a woman is defined by your ability

1382
01:20:13,400 --> 01:20:17,720
Speaker 1: to reproduce, which obviously intentionally excludes trans women and it

1383
01:20:17,800 --> 01:20:22,320
Speaker 1: excludes people with wombs who don't want to have children.

1384
01:20:22,640 --> 01:20:27,080
Speaker 1: Like it's just such an absurd Yeah, and I totally

1385
01:20:27,120 --> 01:20:29,439
Speaker 1: agree with you. Like it goes back to like, oh,

1386
01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:34,080
Speaker 1: your value is determined by your ability to perpetuate X

1387
01:20:34,200 --> 01:20:38,600
Speaker 1: y Z in this case food life, right, whatever, and

1388
01:20:38,640 --> 01:20:42,040
Speaker 1: then if you're not deemed useful enough, then we'll just

1389
01:20:42,080 --> 01:20:42,400
Speaker 1: eat you.

1390
01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:48,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that was my whole thing, because like, the

1391
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:51,599
Speaker 2: chicken farm is extremely restrictive. It is sort of like

1392
01:20:52,280 --> 01:20:56,760
Speaker 2: based on these very rigid gender roles and expectations for

1393
01:20:56,960 --> 01:20:59,920
Speaker 2: the chickens. And I was like, what is this but

1394
01:21:00,160 --> 01:21:01,840
Speaker 2: the patriarchy it is.

1395
01:21:01,960 --> 01:21:06,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's also like the turf patriarchy on that, like

1396
01:21:07,000 --> 01:21:08,960
Speaker 1: where it's like, you know, if you only define an

1397
01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:13,080
Speaker 1: animal by their ability to reproduce, your excluding so many

1398
01:21:13,400 --> 01:21:18,280
Speaker 1: out of sheer you know, does either prejudice or desire

1399
01:21:18,320 --> 01:21:22,400
Speaker 1: to profit or often both. Yes, So you know we

1400
01:21:22,439 --> 01:21:25,080
Speaker 1: should have you know we I think that they should have.

1401
01:21:25,880 --> 01:21:30,040
Speaker 1: You know, let missus Tweety die. She should have died.

1402
01:21:30,120 --> 01:21:31,080
Speaker 2: She was she was.

1403
01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:34,880
Speaker 1: You know what if nothing else, I'm like, we've gotten

1404
01:21:34,920 --> 01:21:39,000
Speaker 1: this far, Like, let's do the guillotine. Yeah, we're here.

1405
01:21:39,120 --> 01:21:41,640
Speaker 1: I don't care if it's PG. Make it PG and

1406
01:21:41,720 --> 01:21:45,320
Speaker 1: drag out a chicken guillotine.

1407
01:21:45,479 --> 01:21:45,719
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1408
01:21:46,040 --> 01:21:48,240
Speaker 1: One thing I liked in this movie was and that

1409
01:21:48,280 --> 01:21:51,160
Speaker 1: I wish we had more of, and I think if Rocky,

1410
01:21:51,400 --> 01:21:54,320
Speaker 1: had Rocky's storyline up been treated differently, we would have

1411
01:21:54,320 --> 01:21:59,600
Speaker 1: gotten more. Was Ginger and Max friendship and their collaboration.

1412
01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:02,840
Speaker 1: I really thought that there was kind of more to

1413
01:22:03,080 --> 01:22:06,880
Speaker 1: kind of mine from that relationship, because you do get

1414
01:22:06,920 --> 01:22:09,519
Speaker 1: a few scenes with them. They are like they're both

1415
01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:14,320
Speaker 1: friends and they are like co organizers, where I liked.

1416
01:22:14,400 --> 01:22:17,880
Speaker 1: I always love when there is I mean there there

1417
01:22:17,960 --> 01:22:21,840
Speaker 1: is sometimes internal conflict at the Coup, but it is

1418
01:22:22,280 --> 01:22:25,920
Speaker 1: not it's it's I don't know, it is, like I thought,

1419
01:22:25,920 --> 01:22:29,880
Speaker 1: pretty logically driven conflict. It wasn't just like, well, there's

1420
01:22:29,920 --> 01:22:31,800
Speaker 1: a lot of women in this area, so of course

1421
01:22:31,800 --> 01:22:33,559
Speaker 1: they're going to be arguing with each other.

1422
01:22:33,520 --> 01:22:34,280
Speaker 2: Like right.

1423
01:22:34,600 --> 01:22:37,160
Speaker 1: I really liked that, especially with Ginger and Mac. They

1424
01:22:37,280 --> 01:22:40,479
Speaker 1: both brought something different to the table. Ginger was like

1425
01:22:40,560 --> 01:22:45,360
Speaker 1: an ideas person. Mac was a logistics person. Chicken I

1426
01:22:45,400 --> 01:22:46,200
Speaker 1: keep saying person.

1427
01:22:47,240 --> 01:22:51,000
Speaker 2: I mean they're personified chickens. They're base, they're people. Chickens

1428
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:55,120
Speaker 2: are people too. I'm peta now, oh my god, streful.

1429
01:22:56,040 --> 01:22:58,360
Speaker 1: There's like, you know, we have our right brain chicken

1430
01:22:58,400 --> 01:23:01,519
Speaker 1: and our left brain chicken and they're colaborating. And I

1431
01:23:01,760 --> 01:23:04,960
Speaker 1: like that they sometimes disagree with each other, but it's

1432
01:23:05,200 --> 01:23:09,599
Speaker 1: never like and now we're fighting and like everything is over.

1433
01:23:09,840 --> 01:23:13,599
Speaker 1: Like there's even one scene where Ginger is kind of like, well,

1434
01:23:13,680 --> 01:23:15,639
Speaker 1: Rocky's going to teach us how to fly, so don't

1435
01:23:15,680 --> 01:23:19,439
Speaker 1: worry about it. And MA'X like, I believe that, but

1436
01:23:20,160 --> 01:23:24,240
Speaker 1: has he flown? Like the way that they approach conflict

1437
01:23:24,280 --> 01:23:27,920
Speaker 1: to each other is very respectful, Yeah, and seems true

1438
01:23:27,960 --> 01:23:31,280
Speaker 1: to their friendship. And I just really liked it. I

1439
01:23:31,280 --> 01:23:34,320
Speaker 1: felt like that could have been an example of like

1440
01:23:34,520 --> 01:23:39,439
Speaker 1: a needless argument between two female characters in a a

1441
01:23:39,479 --> 01:23:42,559
Speaker 1: story that is treated in a pretty grounded way of

1442
01:23:42,640 --> 01:23:46,120
Speaker 1: like Max sort of knows that Gingers drinking the rocky

1443
01:23:46,200 --> 01:23:49,120
Speaker 1: kool aid too much, but isn't you know, isn't aggressive

1444
01:23:49,120 --> 01:23:51,519
Speaker 1: about it? You know, She's like you definitely could be right.

1445
01:23:51,880 --> 01:23:54,519
Speaker 1: I believe you, but like, but considered, they don't need

1446
01:23:54,560 --> 01:23:56,960
Speaker 1: to know it, but like, have you considered, we've never

1447
01:23:57,000 --> 01:24:00,960
Speaker 1: seen him fly? Like, I just I liked that. I

1448
01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:05,519
Speaker 1: thought that was like a really positive, subtle dynamic that

1449
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:07,880
Speaker 1: I wish we had gotten more of a look at.

1450
01:24:08,560 --> 01:24:11,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like you said, I appreciate that there wasn't

1451
01:24:12,080 --> 01:24:16,799
Speaker 2: just like all this chicken infighting because oh women, female

1452
01:24:16,880 --> 01:24:20,519
Speaker 2: chickens be petty, so they have to be constantly arguing.

1453
01:24:20,600 --> 01:24:24,800
Speaker 2: Any conflict within the chickens felt justified, And that kind

1454
01:24:24,800 --> 01:24:27,599
Speaker 2: of brings up that the complacency thing I mentioned earlier

1455
01:24:27,640 --> 01:24:30,519
Speaker 2: of like, again, if you're looking at this chicken farm

1456
01:24:30,720 --> 01:24:35,799
Speaker 2: as like a capitalist machine or as the patriarchy, and honestly,

1457
01:24:36,040 --> 01:24:41,040
Speaker 2: what's the difference. You know that there's often complacency with it,

1458
01:24:41,120 --> 01:24:47,479
Speaker 2: like among the masses, because when oppression is normalized, as

1459
01:24:47,479 --> 01:24:53,240
Speaker 2: it often is in capitalism and the patriarchy, you don't

1460
01:24:53,280 --> 01:24:56,599
Speaker 2: often have the tools or resources to break out of it,

1461
01:24:56,880 --> 01:24:59,360
Speaker 2: or you know, sometimes you don't have the full awareness

1462
01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:03,440
Speaker 2: of what's even happening because you know, maybe the oppression

1463
01:25:03,520 --> 01:25:06,000
Speaker 2: is kind of subtle, or again, like it's just been

1464
01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:12,639
Speaker 2: so normalized and you have yet to unlearn the toxic ideology.

1465
01:25:12,479 --> 01:25:15,240
Speaker 1: Or it's just like a conflict a verse, like it's

1466
01:25:15,680 --> 01:25:18,479
Speaker 1: you can't not see where the chickens are coming from there,

1467
01:25:18,479 --> 01:25:21,519
Speaker 1: because it's like their fear is like if we quote

1468
01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:24,680
Speaker 1: unquote overreact to this, maybe we'll just get killed, or

1469
01:25:24,720 --> 01:25:28,360
Speaker 1: like maybe our predicament will somehow worsen exactly. Yeah, I

1470
01:25:28,400 --> 01:25:32,520
Speaker 1: don't know. I was like I was full like galaxy

1471
01:25:32,600 --> 01:25:35,800
Speaker 1: brain meme watching that can play some chickens because it

1472
01:25:35,840 --> 01:25:37,840
Speaker 1: does like it almost I got into an argument with

1473
01:25:37,880 --> 01:25:43,519
Speaker 1: someone for reasons right like a few weeks ago about

1474
01:25:43,640 --> 01:25:46,840
Speaker 1: the two thousand dollars checks that we.

1475
01:25:46,080 --> 01:25:47,760
Speaker 2: We here in the US were supposed to have.

1476
01:25:47,640 --> 01:25:50,600
Speaker 1: Received, and then all of a sudden, the Biden administration

1477
01:25:50,720 --> 01:25:52,640
Speaker 1: was like, actually you got six hundred, so now it's

1478
01:25:52,680 --> 01:25:55,840
Speaker 1: gonna be fourteen hundred. Fourteen hundred plus six hundred equals

1479
01:25:55,880 --> 01:25:59,000
Speaker 1: two thousand, so shut up, like you should be happy.

1480
01:25:59,640 --> 01:26:01,920
Speaker 1: And how there was like a lot of kind of

1481
01:26:01,960 --> 01:26:04,960
Speaker 1: infighting online about like, you know, people who are like,

1482
01:26:05,120 --> 01:26:07,760
Speaker 1: just take the fourteen hundred dollars, like, just take it,

1483
01:26:07,800 --> 01:26:10,679
Speaker 1: and then other people are like, but we were promised

1484
01:26:10,680 --> 01:26:13,920
Speaker 1: a lot more, and like we feel justified in arguing

1485
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:17,120
Speaker 1: that we should get at very least what we were

1486
01:26:17,160 --> 01:26:20,559
Speaker 1: promised instead of having to accept these kind of piecemeal things.

1487
01:26:20,600 --> 01:26:23,680
Speaker 1: And I know that that's not exactly what's going on

1488
01:26:24,080 --> 01:26:26,400
Speaker 1: in Chicken Run, but I did think of it because

1489
01:26:26,439 --> 01:26:30,439
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, the chicken's legitimate fear is like

1490
01:26:30,600 --> 01:26:33,360
Speaker 1: if if we rock the boat too much, we are

1491
01:26:33,360 --> 01:26:37,559
Speaker 1: putting ourselves in danger, which is true. And they even

1492
01:26:37,600 --> 01:26:40,760
Speaker 1: like say that explicitly towards the end, where like gingerfull

1493
01:26:40,840 --> 01:26:44,480
Speaker 1: On like beating her chest battle cry like we're gonna

1494
01:26:44,800 --> 01:26:48,920
Speaker 1: die oppressed, or we're gonna like we're gonna like die

1495
01:26:49,040 --> 01:26:51,680
Speaker 1: trying in this effort, and then she's able to like

1496
01:26:51,760 --> 01:26:55,160
Speaker 1: get the energy she needs to get the chickens to revolt. Yeah,

1497
01:26:55,160 --> 01:26:57,680
Speaker 1: but it makes sense that it's like I always appreciate

1498
01:26:57,720 --> 01:27:00,240
Speaker 1: because I feel like a lot of times, every every

1499
01:27:00,320 --> 01:27:05,400
Speaker 1: day like the e your everyday chicken type character is

1500
01:27:05,439 --> 01:27:10,639
Speaker 1: made out to be like not smart, when that's very

1501
01:27:10,680 --> 01:27:12,519
Speaker 1: often not true, and I feel like it's not even

1502
01:27:12,600 --> 01:27:14,959
Speaker 1: productive to tell a story that way of like anyone

1503
01:27:15,120 --> 01:27:20,200
Speaker 1: who is like oppression is normalized is not smart, Like

1504
01:27:20,240 --> 01:27:22,760
Speaker 1: that is kind of a ridiculous precedent to set.

1505
01:27:23,320 --> 01:27:23,840
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.

1506
01:27:24,040 --> 01:27:25,960
Speaker 1: I like that as far as the chickens go, we

1507
01:27:26,040 --> 01:27:31,240
Speaker 1: at least do understand in story why they are, you know, nervous,

1508
01:27:31,320 --> 01:27:34,120
Speaker 1: because they've seen what happens to chickens who step out

1509
01:27:34,120 --> 01:27:35,559
Speaker 1: of line. They get fucking beheaded.

1510
01:27:35,960 --> 01:27:37,559
Speaker 2: Uena gets her head chopped off.

1511
01:27:37,720 --> 01:27:40,280
Speaker 1: So I don't know. Yeah, I found that like that

1512
01:27:40,400 --> 01:27:46,760
Speaker 1: part to be like really affecting of Yeah, of like

1513
01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:49,960
Speaker 1: they're not just like sheeple, you know, in the way

1514
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:53,880
Speaker 1: that I think some like large groups of people or

1515
01:27:53,960 --> 01:27:56,840
Speaker 1: like towns people in movies are made out to see them.

1516
01:27:56,840 --> 01:27:59,920
Speaker 1: They're not total sheeple, like they're they're chickens with the

1517
01:28:00,040 --> 01:28:04,840
Speaker 1: legitimate concerns, right, and just because they are like it,

1518
01:28:05,680 --> 01:28:08,519
Speaker 1: I agree that they should rise up and that the

1519
01:28:08,600 --> 01:28:10,519
Speaker 1: time has come, and I'm glad that Ginger was able

1520
01:28:10,520 --> 01:28:12,840
Speaker 1: to motivate them, but you also see where they're coming from.

1521
01:28:12,840 --> 01:28:14,400
Speaker 1: At the beginning, I'm just like, oh, these are just

1522
01:28:14,400 --> 01:28:17,040
Speaker 1: people who are like, let's take the fourteen hundred dollars check.

1523
01:28:17,400 --> 01:28:19,640
Speaker 1: Why are you so mad? And it's like, right, I

1524
01:28:19,680 --> 01:28:22,479
Speaker 1: don't know. I was like, okay, fourteen hundred dollars check, chickens,

1525
01:28:22,560 --> 01:28:25,599
Speaker 1: got it, wrote that down. Fuck.

1526
01:28:27,360 --> 01:28:32,559
Speaker 2: But and then also just like it reinforces Ginger is

1527
01:28:32,600 --> 01:28:36,800
Speaker 2: this like is this feminist icon? Like she's the one

1528
01:28:36,840 --> 01:28:39,280
Speaker 2: who's like, you know what, yes, the steaks are high,

1529
01:28:39,400 --> 01:28:44,560
Speaker 2: Yes we might die, but we are going to die regardless, exactly.

1530
01:28:44,600 --> 01:28:46,320
Speaker 1: Like it was just so bleak.

1531
01:28:46,640 --> 01:28:49,519
Speaker 2: Right right, But yeah, I think her the quote was

1532
01:28:49,600 --> 01:28:52,960
Speaker 2: like we're gonna die free chickens, or we're going to

1533
01:28:53,000 --> 01:28:56,200
Speaker 2: die trying. And then Babs is like those are only options.

1534
01:28:56,280 --> 01:28:57,000
Speaker 1: Hilarious.

1535
01:28:57,120 --> 01:28:59,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's uh, she's like, you know what, I've had

1536
01:28:59,439 --> 01:29:02,719
Speaker 2: enough of this, fed up and we're gonna revolt.

1537
01:29:03,240 --> 01:29:05,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and it's like and by that point it's

1538
01:29:05,920 --> 01:29:09,280
Speaker 1: like they are so they're like literally, if they don't

1539
01:29:09,280 --> 01:29:13,519
Speaker 1: do anything, they're only extending their lives by a short

1540
01:29:13,520 --> 01:29:16,280
Speaker 1: amount of time. And so it's like, okay, the time

1541
01:29:16,439 --> 01:29:20,759
Speaker 1: has come, like uprising, we're building a plane and then

1542
01:29:20,960 --> 01:29:22,800
Speaker 1: the one man here is gonna magically know how to

1543
01:29:22,800 --> 01:29:26,000
Speaker 1: fly the plane. Don't love that, but the I don't know.

1544
01:29:26,040 --> 01:29:28,920
Speaker 1: I just the way that the uprising was like orchestrated.

1545
01:29:28,920 --> 01:29:31,840
Speaker 1: You're just like, shit, I got all I got all

1546
01:29:31,920 --> 01:29:37,080
Speaker 1: worked up. I was like, damn, she's right, She's right. Yeah,

1547
01:29:37,160 --> 01:29:40,080
Speaker 1: Ginger is amazing. Ginger is so amazing. I hate that

1548
01:29:40,120 --> 01:29:43,599
Speaker 1: she has to date Rocky, some guy from Rhode Island

1549
01:29:43,880 --> 01:29:47,360
Speaker 1: at the end. It's so not okay, you have nothing

1550
01:29:47,439 --> 01:29:51,320
Speaker 1: going for him. I liked how we kind of alluded

1551
01:29:51,360 --> 01:29:54,519
Speaker 1: to this earlier. But I like how Babs is seen

1552
01:29:54,680 --> 01:29:57,559
Speaker 1: doing like she's knitting. She's like a nervous knitter, and

1553
01:29:57,600 --> 01:30:00,800
Speaker 1: she's doing kind of like traditionally domestic and I feel

1554
01:30:00,800 --> 01:30:03,280
Speaker 1: like that's another thing that sometimes we see in movies

1555
01:30:03,320 --> 01:30:06,080
Speaker 1: that are like trying to present themselves as feminists, where

1556
01:30:06,080 --> 01:30:11,639
Speaker 1: they're like fuck domestic work, when that's actually really reductive

1557
01:30:11,800 --> 01:30:15,520
Speaker 1: to people who perform domestic work of any gender. Like

1558
01:30:15,280 --> 01:30:17,880
Speaker 1: I like that it's not just a joke of like

1559
01:30:18,439 --> 01:30:22,240
Speaker 1: the work, the traditionally feminine work she's doing ends up

1560
01:30:22,520 --> 01:30:24,280
Speaker 1: like being a big part of the reason that they're

1561
01:30:24,280 --> 01:30:24,920
Speaker 1: able to fly.

1562
01:30:25,400 --> 01:30:27,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great. Love it.

1563
01:30:27,640 --> 01:30:30,920
Speaker 1: I love that this, like this coop, this revolution is

1564
01:30:30,960 --> 01:30:35,040
Speaker 1: inclusive of all sorts of women and all sort of

1565
01:30:35,120 --> 01:30:39,160
Speaker 1: like any everyone is welcome to the revolution, including Rocky,

1566
01:30:39,200 --> 01:30:41,120
Speaker 1: which is like, well, let's where are we going to draw.

1567
01:30:41,000 --> 01:30:43,120
Speaker 2: The line, but like draw the one somewhere.

1568
01:30:43,280 --> 01:30:45,719
Speaker 1: But I do like I like that the we haven't

1569
01:30:45,720 --> 01:30:47,960
Speaker 1: really talked about the rats because who really cares, but

1570
01:30:48,080 --> 01:30:52,400
Speaker 1: like the rats sort of redeem themselves to some extent.

1571
01:30:52,560 --> 01:30:55,360
Speaker 1: They sacrifice something that's important to them in order to

1572
01:30:56,120 --> 01:31:00,320
Speaker 1: join the revolution, and there is some sort of like

1573
01:31:00,320 --> 01:31:03,720
Speaker 1: like hesitate to say there's like restorative justice applied to

1574
01:31:03,760 --> 01:31:06,040
Speaker 1: the Timothy's Ball rat, but it's like kind of true,

1575
01:31:06,520 --> 01:31:09,519
Speaker 1: like they they are welcome to the revolution if they

1576
01:31:09,520 --> 01:31:12,479
Speaker 1: are willing to contribute in a meaningful way and not

1577
01:31:12,560 --> 01:31:15,000
Speaker 1: be assholes, and like that is kind of it seems

1578
01:31:15,000 --> 01:31:18,000
Speaker 1: like that's kind of the line of like who's welcome

1579
01:31:18,040 --> 01:31:21,559
Speaker 1: and who isn't is like, will you act in favor

1580
01:31:21,600 --> 01:31:25,120
Speaker 1: of the collective if you will get on the plane, baby,

1581
01:31:25,200 --> 01:31:29,040
Speaker 1: jump on a bike. I love it. Yeah, let's build

1582
01:31:29,080 --> 01:31:30,240
Speaker 1: a plane and get out of here.

1583
01:31:33,080 --> 01:31:38,160
Speaker 2: Seriously, Here's something else I like, which is that Bunty

1584
01:31:38,680 --> 01:31:45,120
Speaker 2: is voiced by Emelda Staunton aka Aunt Lucy from Paddington.

1585
01:31:45,000 --> 01:31:48,639
Speaker 1: Aka She's gonna play the Queen. And the last season

1586
01:31:48,680 --> 01:31:49,639
Speaker 1: of The Crown.

1587
01:31:50,240 --> 01:31:52,920
Speaker 2: Oh cool, cool cool? Yeah, you have watched The Crown yet.

1588
01:31:52,920 --> 01:31:56,520
Speaker 1: But it's boring. It's boring, but I've seen every episode,

1589
01:31:56,720 --> 01:31:59,080
Speaker 1: which is a lot of things.

1590
01:32:00,080 --> 01:32:04,360
Speaker 2: Also, how is Fouler not voiced by John Hurt?

1591
01:32:04,720 --> 01:32:05,280
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1592
01:32:05,320 --> 01:32:07,120
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, that's for sure John Hurt. And

1593
01:32:07,120 --> 01:32:08,680
Speaker 2: then I looked it up and it's like it's not

1594
01:32:08,880 --> 01:32:10,560
Speaker 2: John Hurt and you're like, what.

1595
01:32:10,439 --> 01:32:12,439
Speaker 1: It's whoever you call? When John Hurt is an.

1596
01:32:12,360 --> 01:32:18,639
Speaker 2: Available Benjamin with throw I guess that's very British sounding.

1597
01:32:18,920 --> 01:32:22,160
Speaker 2: Yeah right, And then speaking of voice acting, okay, so

1598
01:32:22,880 --> 01:32:25,320
Speaker 2: oh yeah I saw this or not. But the sequel

1599
01:32:25,400 --> 01:32:28,960
Speaker 2: of Chicken Run is in development. I think it's slated

1600
01:32:28,960 --> 01:32:31,160
Speaker 2: to come out in a couple of years this year.

1601
01:32:31,200 --> 01:32:32,840
Speaker 1: Actually, it comes out in twenty twenty one.

1602
01:32:32,960 --> 01:32:35,360
Speaker 2: Oh, no kidding. Oh my goodness. I looked it up

1603
01:32:35,400 --> 01:32:38,439
Speaker 2: on IMDb and it said that it was tentatively to

1604
01:32:38,479 --> 01:32:44,480
Speaker 2: be released twenty twenty three, but also, IDK maybe maybe

1605
01:32:44,240 --> 01:32:48,080
Speaker 2: the pandemic has pushed Maybe it was originally twenty twenty one,

1606
01:32:48,120 --> 01:32:50,040
Speaker 2: but the pandemic pushed it back.

1607
01:32:50,120 --> 01:32:54,280
Speaker 1: Aandemic has pushed back. All I don't they're fun industry

1608
01:32:54,360 --> 01:32:58,920
Speaker 1: insider info because I work in stop motion animation. Stop

1609
01:32:58,960 --> 01:33:01,639
Speaker 1: motion animation that makes sense, yes, not which the animation

1610
01:33:01,800 --> 01:33:04,479
Speaker 1: is kind of impossible to do without people in the

1611
01:33:04,479 --> 01:33:06,439
Speaker 1: same room, so yeah, makes sense.

1612
01:33:07,479 --> 01:33:11,160
Speaker 2: But anyway, so the A sequel is in development, and

1613
01:33:11,400 --> 01:33:16,000
Speaker 2: the voice actor who plays Ginger, Julia Sawala.

1614
01:33:16,040 --> 01:33:18,120
Speaker 1: I have never tried to say her name out loud.

1615
01:33:18,720 --> 01:33:22,240
Speaker 2: Yes, so apologies if I got that wrong, But she

1616
01:33:22,640 --> 01:33:28,280
Speaker 2: revealed in July twenty twenty that Ardman, the animation studio

1617
01:33:28,320 --> 01:33:33,360
Speaker 2: behind Chicken Run, intended to recast her, saying that her

1618
01:33:33,479 --> 01:33:39,800
Speaker 2: voice now sounds quote too old, and Julia said, in

1619
01:33:39,840 --> 01:33:44,639
Speaker 2: response to that, I have officially been plucked, stuffed, and roasted,

1620
01:33:44,680 --> 01:33:47,320
Speaker 2: which is the quote from the movie that I butchered earlier,

1621
01:33:47,720 --> 01:33:49,680
Speaker 2: butchered loved that.

1622
01:33:49,840 --> 01:33:53,080
Speaker 1: She was like, listen, you think I don't deserve to

1623
01:33:53,120 --> 01:33:56,280
Speaker 1: be in Chicken Run. Here, I am quoting Chicken Run.

1624
01:33:56,479 --> 01:33:59,479
Speaker 1: This is such a bullshit thing. Yeah, that there, And

1625
01:33:59,520 --> 01:34:03,519
Speaker 1: it seemed to be done because it sucks because it's

1626
01:34:03,560 --> 01:34:06,680
Speaker 1: like Mel Gibson is rightfully not coming back for the

1627
01:34:06,720 --> 01:34:08,760
Speaker 1: next Chicken Run movie, and so they kind of use

1628
01:34:08,840 --> 01:34:13,320
Speaker 1: this as a blanket excuse to get rid of Julia

1629
01:34:13,400 --> 01:34:16,720
Speaker 1: Sowalha as well, when it's like, but she didn't do

1630
01:34:16,800 --> 01:34:20,040
Speaker 1: anything like she this is her. This is an iconic

1631
01:34:20,880 --> 01:34:25,360
Speaker 1: I always like it's it's so frustrating. How like if

1632
01:34:25,360 --> 01:34:31,080
Speaker 1: there's any area of acting where agism should particularly not

1633
01:34:31,280 --> 01:34:35,599
Speaker 1: come into the mix, it's fucking cartoon voice acting seriously,

1634
01:34:35,600 --> 01:34:38,800
Speaker 1: like that is a level of agism that is just

1635
01:34:38,840 --> 01:34:42,960
Speaker 1: like almost inconceivable because you're just it's there was like

1636
01:34:43,000 --> 01:34:45,599
Speaker 1: a similar discussion going on for it. This was like

1637
01:34:46,000 --> 01:34:48,600
Speaker 1: five or six years ago, but when the new Powerpuff

1638
01:34:48,640 --> 01:34:51,519
Speaker 1: Girls cartoon was coming out, they were like, we're getting

1639
01:34:51,800 --> 01:34:55,519
Speaker 1: the old Powerpuff Girls are not coming back because they're

1640
01:34:55,600 --> 01:34:58,439
Speaker 1: forty now, and it's like, well they were twenty five

1641
01:34:58,520 --> 01:35:01,280
Speaker 1: when they were the Powerpuff Girl, Like what are you

1642
01:35:01,360 --> 01:35:05,200
Speaker 1: talking about? It's so it is so like bizarre and

1643
01:35:05,240 --> 01:35:09,400
Speaker 1: frustrating that there's ageism in any area of entertainment, right,

1644
01:35:09,439 --> 01:35:14,080
Speaker 1: but like in particular voice acting, it's like on what grounds.

1645
01:35:13,880 --> 01:35:16,800
Speaker 2: Yes, not that any of it makes sense, but like

1646
01:35:17,280 --> 01:35:19,679
Speaker 2: that makes the least amount of sense.

1647
01:35:19,840 --> 01:35:22,200
Speaker 1: We're in such a level of fantasy where it's like

1648
01:35:22,280 --> 01:35:27,000
Speaker 1: she is voicing a claymation, Chicken. How are you too

1649
01:35:27,120 --> 01:35:31,599
Speaker 1: old to voice a clamation? Chicken? Yeah? That was That

1650
01:35:31,760 --> 01:35:35,479
Speaker 1: story is so fucking fry, especially because it's like we

1651
01:35:35,520 --> 01:35:39,040
Speaker 1: should just now. It's like we can't purely be thrilled

1652
01:35:39,080 --> 01:35:41,240
Speaker 1: for a new Chicken Run because it's like what at

1653
01:35:41,280 --> 01:35:43,160
Speaker 1: first when I remember when that came out, when it

1654
01:35:43,200 --> 01:35:45,200
Speaker 1: was like, oh, Chicken Run, but this time no Mel Gibson,

1655
01:35:45,840 --> 01:35:51,240
Speaker 1: sign me up? But yeah, but you can't. I really

1656
01:35:51,320 --> 01:35:53,680
Speaker 1: I'm curious if there's ever gonna be especially if it's

1657
01:35:53,680 --> 01:35:56,559
Speaker 1: being pushed back to twenty twenty three. I wonder if

1658
01:35:57,760 --> 01:36:02,880
Speaker 1: that prompted any discussion in the right direction, because it's

1659
01:36:02,880 --> 01:36:06,599
Speaker 1: like there's no reason to recast Ginger, absolutely none, especially

1660
01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:09,040
Speaker 1: like a movie going to Netflix where you don't need

1661
01:36:09,080 --> 01:36:13,120
Speaker 1: to promote it like on what grounds. Yeah, Ginger is

1662
01:36:13,160 --> 01:36:16,759
Speaker 1: an icon, And I'm also very glad that Julias Sawall

1663
01:36:16,880 --> 01:36:20,200
Speaker 1: has spoke up yea for herself because.

1664
01:36:19,960 --> 01:36:22,519
Speaker 2: There was backlash. I mean, I'm reading I read this

1665
01:36:22,600 --> 01:36:26,920
Speaker 2: on Wikipedia, our favorite scholarly journal, of course, and it

1666
01:36:26,960 --> 01:36:28,880
Speaker 2: didn't go into a whole lot of depth about like

1667
01:36:29,160 --> 01:36:33,880
Speaker 2: the backlash that the recasting received, the people saying that,

1668
01:36:34,000 --> 01:36:37,679
Speaker 2: you know this is extremely ageis why is this happening? Yeah,

1669
01:36:37,920 --> 01:36:39,439
Speaker 2: so I don't know a lot of details about it,

1670
01:36:39,439 --> 01:36:43,799
Speaker 2: but there was I mean, maybe the studio will listen

1671
01:36:44,120 --> 01:36:47,679
Speaker 2: and be like, sorry, we goofed, Julia come back.

1672
01:36:48,240 --> 01:36:50,840
Speaker 1: I really hope so, because it's like I don't know,

1673
01:36:51,360 --> 01:36:53,960
Speaker 1: I know that it's like foolish. Just I just I

1674
01:36:54,000 --> 01:36:59,400
Speaker 1: have such a strong love for Ardman animation, like all like,

1675
01:37:01,040 --> 01:37:03,920
Speaker 1: don't recast Ginger, you fight?

1676
01:37:04,120 --> 01:37:05,839
Speaker 2: Like yikes.

1677
01:37:06,960 --> 01:37:10,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was disappointed to hear that. I was interested.

1678
01:37:10,400 --> 01:37:13,840
Speaker 1: Did you know, Caitlin that Chicken Run is the highest

1679
01:37:14,080 --> 01:37:18,280
Speaker 1: grossing stop motion movie ever by like a lot.

1680
01:37:18,880 --> 01:37:21,720
Speaker 2: I did also read that on Wikipedia.

1681
01:37:22,400 --> 01:37:25,679
Speaker 1: I forgot how like Chicken Run was like a moment

1682
01:37:26,120 --> 01:37:29,639
Speaker 1: Chicken Run was fully I was curious, but like this

1683
01:37:29,640 --> 01:37:32,280
Speaker 1: this movie came out the year before there was an

1684
01:37:32,360 --> 01:37:35,680
Speaker 1: Academy Award for Best Animated Feature, Yes, which was such

1685
01:37:35,720 --> 01:37:37,760
Speaker 1: a Bummer. I was just like, Wow, Chicken Run. I

1686
01:37:37,760 --> 01:37:39,639
Speaker 1: feel like would have had it on lock.

1687
01:37:40,439 --> 01:37:43,360
Speaker 2: So yeah, I was reading that it got snubbed for

1688
01:37:43,520 --> 01:37:45,960
Speaker 2: like because it was like it could have been a

1689
01:37:45,960 --> 01:37:47,800
Speaker 2: contender for Best Picture.

1690
01:37:48,439 --> 01:37:51,080
Speaker 1: But that just doesn't happen in animation. Yeah.

1691
01:37:51,360 --> 01:37:55,200
Speaker 2: Right, So basically everyone's like, g whiz, kind of sucks

1692
01:37:55,240 --> 01:37:58,519
Speaker 2: that Chicken Run didn't win anything. Let's make a Best

1693
01:37:58,840 --> 01:38:05,040
Speaker 2: Animated Feature categor the following year, which was won by Shrek.

1694
01:38:05,520 --> 01:38:08,599
Speaker 1: Never forgot there's, I mean, of all the iconic things

1695
01:38:08,640 --> 01:38:11,240
Speaker 1: about Shrek, the fact that it won the first Animation

1696
01:38:11,400 --> 01:38:16,240
Speaker 1: Academy Award is like wow, just wow. Chicken Run walked

1697
01:38:16,360 --> 01:38:20,080
Speaker 1: so Shrek could run, and that is a beautiful thing.

1698
01:38:20,360 --> 01:38:21,200
Speaker 2: That is a beautiful thing.

1699
01:38:21,360 --> 01:38:23,280
Speaker 1: I wish the Chicken Run had more trophies, but the

1700
01:38:23,280 --> 01:38:28,479
Speaker 1: fact that Chicken Run was so rawly powerful that people

1701
01:38:28,479 --> 01:38:30,800
Speaker 1: were like, we need a new oscar so we can

1702
01:38:30,840 --> 01:38:33,479
Speaker 1: give it to to Shrek.

1703
01:38:35,160 --> 01:38:36,160
Speaker 2: That's so bleak.

1704
01:38:36,320 --> 01:38:39,760
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Shrek is funny though, So you know,

1705
01:38:39,800 --> 01:38:40,519
Speaker 1: what can you do?

1706
01:38:41,360 --> 01:38:44,799
Speaker 2: While we're covering Shrek two this year? Sometime on the matrix,

1707
01:38:45,080 --> 01:38:49,840
Speaker 2: we spoke it. We spoke it in reality, we manifested it.

1708
01:38:50,080 --> 01:38:51,400
Speaker 2: Chicken Run is really.

1709
01:38:51,200 --> 01:38:57,679
Speaker 1: Like so iconically good and I want to marry Chicken Run.

1710
01:38:57,760 --> 01:38:58,760
Speaker 2: I love Chicken Frun.

1711
01:39:01,640 --> 01:39:04,080
Speaker 1: It's amazing. I saw I was a PlayStation game, and

1712
01:39:04,200 --> 01:39:07,280
Speaker 1: I was like, what, whoa? I know? I want to

1713
01:39:07,280 --> 01:39:09,000
Speaker 1: play the PlayStation Chicken Run game.

1714
01:39:09,240 --> 01:39:10,559
Speaker 2: Damn too.

1715
01:39:11,240 --> 01:39:13,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, did you have anything else? Anything? That's about everything?

1716
01:39:13,439 --> 01:39:17,320
Speaker 2: I know? That covered? I'm pretty sure Yeah, that was

1717
01:39:17,360 --> 01:39:22,000
Speaker 2: everything I had. So this movie does pass the Bechdel test.

1718
01:39:22,640 --> 01:39:28,720
Speaker 1: Not between many many chickens, so many chickens. Chickens talking

1719
01:39:28,760 --> 01:39:31,719
Speaker 1: about seizing the means of production passes the Bechtyl test.

1720
01:39:32,600 --> 01:39:37,360
Speaker 2: Period when chickens talk to each other about the laws

1721
01:39:37,360 --> 01:39:40,679
Speaker 2: of physics such as thrust passes the test.

1722
01:39:41,040 --> 01:39:43,760
Speaker 1: I wonder if that's like it sounds like that's the

1723
01:39:43,800 --> 01:39:46,360
Speaker 1: sort of thing that I'm like, it sounds like science.

1724
01:39:46,400 --> 01:39:49,880
Speaker 1: I wonder if we have any any any listeners in stem?

1725
01:39:50,760 --> 01:39:56,000
Speaker 1: Was the Chicken science accurate? Because I just want genuinely curious.

1726
01:39:56,040 --> 01:39:59,280
Speaker 1: It sounded real to me, But everyone saying science and

1727
01:39:59,360 --> 01:40:03,840
Speaker 1: movies sound real to me. Let us know, Yeah, how

1728
01:40:03,840 --> 01:40:05,800
Speaker 1: many nipples were given this thing? Hmmm?

1729
01:40:06,600 --> 01:40:12,679
Speaker 2: I would give it? I can. I want to give

1730
01:40:12,720 --> 01:40:17,200
Speaker 2: it like three or three and a half. It definitely

1731
01:40:17,200 --> 01:40:21,080
Speaker 2: gets points taken off for you know, those like early

1732
01:40:21,240 --> 01:40:25,800
Speaker 2: two thousand era, like hetero romance getting wedged into the

1733
01:40:25,840 --> 01:40:30,280
Speaker 2: story for absolutely no reason, several male redemption arcs that

1734
01:40:30,320 --> 01:40:35,360
Speaker 2: are completely unearned and undeserved, female character having to be

1735
01:40:35,439 --> 01:40:39,160
Speaker 2: saved by a male character, that kind of stuff. Yeah,

1736
01:40:39,200 --> 01:40:44,040
Speaker 2: but it's like this society of chickens who like form

1737
01:40:44,120 --> 01:40:48,479
Speaker 2: their own matriarchy even though they are living within this

1738
01:40:48,680 --> 01:40:54,960
Speaker 2: like these oppressive confines of this like capitalistic patriarchal structure.

1739
01:40:55,520 --> 01:40:59,240
Speaker 2: They're like, not for me, not on, not today, We're

1740
01:40:59,240 --> 01:41:05,040
Speaker 2: gonna kape out of this, and they do, and they

1741
01:41:05,280 --> 01:41:11,120
Speaker 2: are extremely motivated, they're extremely active. They're iconic, absolutely iconic.

1742
01:41:11,400 --> 01:41:13,800
Speaker 2: I think I'm going to give it three and a

1743
01:41:13,840 --> 01:41:20,080
Speaker 2: half nipples, and I'm going to give one to Ginger,

1744
01:41:20,400 --> 01:41:26,120
Speaker 2: I will give one to Mac the chicken, and Stem,

1745
01:41:26,520 --> 01:41:33,840
Speaker 2: I will give one two Babs, who's knitting saves the day.

1746
01:41:34,760 --> 01:41:37,719
Speaker 2: And I will give my half nipple to Edwina, who

1747
01:41:37,800 --> 01:41:42,840
Speaker 2: does unfortunately get murdered maybe before we even meet her,

1748
01:41:43,160 --> 01:41:43,479
Speaker 2: but I.

1749
01:41:43,400 --> 01:41:45,320
Speaker 1: Feel like she kind of ends up being like I

1750
01:41:45,360 --> 01:41:48,759
Speaker 1: feel like I wish that Edwina's name was invoked more

1751
01:41:48,840 --> 01:41:51,519
Speaker 1: of like she's kind of a martyr for this cause

1752
01:41:51,640 --> 01:41:55,759
Speaker 1: like her, like that is the last straw. They're like, Okay,

1753
01:41:55,920 --> 01:41:58,400
Speaker 1: they're taking Edwena, Like there should be a statue of

1754
01:41:58,520 --> 01:42:02,479
Speaker 1: Edwena on Chicken Island, and I hope there is because

1755
01:42:02,479 --> 01:42:05,520
Speaker 1: she like she literally that she's kind of the inciting

1756
01:42:05,520 --> 01:42:08,679
Speaker 1: incident in a lot of ways of just like we had,

1757
01:42:08,680 --> 01:42:11,160
Speaker 1: like the steaks have never been higher. It's we're not

1758
01:42:11,320 --> 01:42:14,920
Speaker 1: bucking around anymore. They took it Weena from us, and yeah,

1759
01:42:14,960 --> 01:42:17,240
Speaker 1: now I'm like, damn it Weena should be like literally

1760
01:42:17,320 --> 01:42:19,760
Speaker 1: like a cultural chicken icon.

1761
01:42:20,240 --> 01:42:24,400
Speaker 2: Truly. Yeah, she's like the Joan of Arc of the

1762
01:42:24,560 --> 01:42:27,000
Speaker 2: Chickens exactly exactly.

1763
01:42:28,000 --> 01:42:30,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna maybe overdo it a little. I'm

1764
01:42:30,840 --> 01:42:35,080
Speaker 1: gonna get this four nipples because it is literally a feminist,

1765
01:42:35,080 --> 01:42:37,960
Speaker 1: socialist movie that is g rated for children and it's

1766
01:42:37,960 --> 01:42:42,240
Speaker 1: about chickens, and so uh there, I totally agree. I mean,

1767
01:42:42,240 --> 01:42:45,160
Speaker 1: we've we've hashed out kind of the shortcomings. Most of

1768
01:42:45,200 --> 01:42:47,599
Speaker 1: my issues with this movie are in the third act.

1769
01:42:47,760 --> 01:42:49,600
Speaker 1: Feels like a lot of studio notes of like we

1770
01:42:49,720 --> 01:42:52,880
Speaker 1: gotta have these chickens with teeth kissing, which nia don't,

1771
01:42:53,160 --> 01:42:55,160
Speaker 1: and like we have to have all these last second

1772
01:42:55,439 --> 01:42:57,880
Speaker 1: male redemption arcs, even though they're not set up in

1773
01:42:57,920 --> 01:42:59,720
Speaker 1: any way, and it's actually set up for a way

1774
01:42:59,720 --> 01:43:04,200
Speaker 1: more interesting ending. But all that said, it's literally like

1775
01:43:05,560 --> 01:43:11,280
Speaker 1: it's a story of a matriarchal chicken society seizing the

1776
01:43:11,360 --> 01:43:17,120
Speaker 1: means of production, demanding bodily autonomy, defeating capitalism, and moving

1777
01:43:17,160 --> 01:43:23,160
Speaker 1: to Chicken Island. That is amazing. That is so amazing.

1778
01:43:23,240 --> 01:43:25,640
Speaker 1: I wish that there were more women involved in the

1779
01:43:25,680 --> 01:43:28,680
Speaker 1: production of this movie. I will say, like Ardman is

1780
01:43:28,720 --> 01:43:32,320
Speaker 1: a company that I fully love that is a bunch

1781
01:43:32,360 --> 01:43:36,680
Speaker 1: of old white British guys, and I hope that that

1782
01:43:36,840 --> 01:43:38,960
Speaker 1: is no longer the case. I own. I haven't been

1783
01:43:39,040 --> 01:43:42,360
Speaker 1: keeping up with their roster of people. It seems to

1784
01:43:42,439 --> 01:43:45,160
Speaker 1: usually be the same couple of guys, much like Pixar.

1785
01:43:46,360 --> 01:43:51,400
Speaker 1: But all that said, I mean it's this, It's like powerful,

1786
01:43:51,560 --> 01:43:54,840
Speaker 1: and it got me all worked up. Even now when

1787
01:43:54,840 --> 01:43:57,839
Speaker 1: I watch Chicken Run, I want to join a revolution,

1788
01:43:58,120 --> 01:44:00,160
Speaker 1: and I think that's a great thing for children and

1789
01:44:00,800 --> 01:44:03,639
Speaker 1: to rise up against their oppressors and build a plane.

1790
01:44:05,479 --> 01:44:08,720
Speaker 1: So I'm going to give Chicken Run four nipples and

1791
01:44:08,800 --> 01:44:11,000
Speaker 1: to give one to Ginger. I'm and to give one

1792
01:44:11,040 --> 01:44:14,479
Speaker 1: to Mac and give one to Edwina, and I'll give

1793
01:44:14,479 --> 01:44:17,680
Speaker 1: one to Babs because she makes the textiles that make

1794
01:44:17,680 --> 01:44:22,160
Speaker 1: the plane fly. Baby. Yeah, yeah, shout out. Chicken Run

1795
01:44:22,280 --> 01:44:24,280
Speaker 1: really a cultural moment.

1796
01:44:24,520 --> 01:44:28,519
Speaker 2: This movie also, in addition to you know, inspiring me

1797
01:44:28,680 --> 01:44:33,360
Speaker 2: to revolt more, yeah, I also am like, yep, I

1798
01:44:33,360 --> 01:44:37,200
Speaker 2: think I might have to fully commit to veganism. Now

1799
01:44:37,479 --> 01:44:37,960
Speaker 2: there you go.

1800
01:44:38,080 --> 01:44:40,120
Speaker 1: You don't that's beautiful.

1801
01:44:39,840 --> 01:44:44,280
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. I'm on My current food intake

1802
01:44:44,560 --> 01:44:47,840
Speaker 2: is I get one meat cheat a day. Sorry for

1803
01:44:47,880 --> 01:44:52,439
Speaker 2: a day. I get one meat cheat a month where

1804
01:44:52,439 --> 01:44:54,920
Speaker 2: I can eat meat once a month, and then the

1805
01:44:54,960 --> 01:44:59,240
Speaker 2: rest of my meals are vegetarian or vegan. But now

1806
01:44:59,240 --> 01:45:02,080
Speaker 2: I'm just like, damn, Chicken Run might push me over

1807
01:45:02,120 --> 01:45:06,400
Speaker 2: the edge and I might have to just commit. We'll see.

1808
01:45:06,520 --> 01:45:07,759
Speaker 2: I'll keep everyone posted.

1809
01:45:08,080 --> 01:45:12,080
Speaker 1: Ginger is an absolutely, I mean an inspiration. She really is.

1810
01:45:12,640 --> 01:45:15,360
Speaker 1: She's a feminist. I think she's entering my pantheon of

1811
01:45:15,479 --> 01:45:18,920
Speaker 1: all time feminist icons because she's not a feminist that

1812
01:45:19,000 --> 01:45:21,320
Speaker 1: just works to liberate herself, which I feel like if.

1813
01:45:21,160 --> 01:45:23,720
Speaker 2: She's uplifting other chicken women.

1814
01:45:23,880 --> 01:45:26,320
Speaker 1: That which is, which is like one of the most

1815
01:45:26,439 --> 01:45:30,320
Speaker 1: core important things is like, you're not just working to

1816
01:45:30,640 --> 01:45:33,880
Speaker 1: liberate yourself, because then you're just a girl boss. You're

1817
01:45:33,920 --> 01:45:38,479
Speaker 1: working to liberate the collective of the oppressed. Now we're

1818
01:45:38,560 --> 01:45:42,160
Speaker 1: fucking talking and that's what Chicken Run is saying. And

1819
01:45:42,200 --> 01:45:47,840
Speaker 1: I love I love Chicken Run. Yeah, it's it's almost

1820
01:45:47,920 --> 01:45:51,120
Speaker 1: a perfect movie. Let me rewrite the last, you know, half.

1821
01:45:50,880 --> 01:45:54,680
Speaker 2: Hour seriously, like end of AC two onward. There's just

1822
01:45:54,800 --> 01:45:56,679
Speaker 2: some changes that could be made and then it would

1823
01:45:56,720 --> 01:45:57,640
Speaker 2: be perfect and.

1824
01:45:57,640 --> 01:45:59,800
Speaker 1: They wouldn't even need to be big changes. You can

1825
01:45:59,800 --> 01:46:01,719
Speaker 1: still on like a plane of flight and Chicken Island

1826
01:46:01,840 --> 01:46:07,759
Speaker 1: just sea the things. Oh, anyways, an amazing piece of cinema.

1827
01:46:08,160 --> 01:46:12,679
Speaker 2: Wow, Well there you have it, folks. That was our

1828
01:46:13,240 --> 01:46:18,080
Speaker 2: unlocked Chicken Run episode unlocked from the Matreon, which, again,

1829
01:46:18,120 --> 01:46:20,439
Speaker 2: if you like this episode and you're not yet a

1830
01:46:20,520 --> 01:46:25,240
Speaker 2: Matreon subscriber, you should do that immediately by going to

1831
01:46:25,880 --> 01:46:29,760
Speaker 2: patreon dot com slash spectal Cast and subscribing for a

1832
01:46:29,840 --> 01:46:32,920
Speaker 2: mere five dollars a month and that gets you two

1833
01:46:33,080 --> 01:46:37,599
Speaker 2: bonus episodes every single month that are always on a brilliant, genius,

1834
01:46:37,720 --> 01:46:39,120
Speaker 2: incredible theme.

1835
01:46:39,479 --> 01:46:42,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've never missed. I actually and I sometimes speak

1836
01:46:42,680 --> 01:46:46,799
Speaker 1: sarcastically randomly, But I actually do think of the Matren

1837
01:46:46,880 --> 01:46:49,840
Speaker 1: we have rarely, if ever missed in one hundred and

1838
01:46:49,960 --> 01:46:51,920
Speaker 1: fifty one hundred percent hit rate.

1839
01:46:52,240 --> 01:46:55,719
Speaker 2: Only hits, Yeah, only the hits for our Matrons.

1840
01:46:55,800 --> 01:46:58,320
Speaker 1: There's only one time on the in the history of

1841
01:46:58,320 --> 01:47:01,000
Speaker 1: the Matreon where we accidentally did not cover a movie

1842
01:47:01,000 --> 01:47:03,919
Speaker 1: at all, and it is one of our best episodes

1843
01:47:03,920 --> 01:47:06,120
Speaker 1: we've ever recorded, So we've.

1844
01:47:05,920 --> 01:47:09,160
Speaker 2: Never Yes, are you referring to the episode where we

1845
01:47:09,280 --> 01:47:12,120
Speaker 2: tried to talk about the shape of water and instead

1846
01:47:12,479 --> 01:47:15,280
Speaker 2: got carried away talking about the three eleven cruise.

1847
01:47:16,240 --> 01:47:18,920
Speaker 1: Yes, and all of the hilarious ways that it would

1848
01:47:18,960 --> 01:47:21,439
Speaker 1: be funny for it to sink like the Titanic, Like

1849
01:47:22,160 --> 01:47:26,800
Speaker 1: I just the band is already on the boat. The

1850
01:47:26,880 --> 01:47:31,160
Speaker 1: point is, and that could happen again at any time. Yeah,

1851
01:47:31,800 --> 01:47:35,400
Speaker 1: So join us at the matreod. It's fun, it's it's

1852
01:47:35,439 --> 01:47:39,160
Speaker 1: it's still the discussion you love, but more of a

1853
01:47:39,240 --> 01:47:43,760
Speaker 1: more vibes. There's vibes over on the matred.

1854
01:47:43,400 --> 01:47:44,240
Speaker 2: Tons of vibes.

1855
01:47:44,360 --> 01:47:47,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you want to have even more vibes

1856
01:47:48,000 --> 01:47:50,799
Speaker 1: still again, if you are in the Los Angeles area,

1857
01:47:50,880 --> 01:47:53,519
Speaker 1: please come and join us on Sunday, August twenty fifth

1858
01:47:53,720 --> 01:47:57,240
Speaker 1: at four pm at the Lowsphilas three. Thank you to

1859
01:47:57,320 --> 01:48:01,080
Speaker 1: American Cinematech for inviting us to participate in Friends of

1860
01:48:01,120 --> 01:48:04,040
Speaker 1: the Fest even though we aggressive we both did not

1861
01:48:04,120 --> 01:48:05,400
Speaker 1: show up at our screening last year.

1862
01:48:06,240 --> 01:48:07,400
Speaker 2: We had good reasons.

1863
01:48:07,479 --> 01:48:09,559
Speaker 1: We had good reasons. My dad was in chemo and

1864
01:48:09,600 --> 01:48:12,599
Speaker 1: you had COVID and this year neither of those. They're

1865
01:48:12,600 --> 01:48:15,880
Speaker 1: non issues. They're no issues. And so please join us

1866
01:48:16,120 --> 01:48:19,160
Speaker 1: for Chicken Run. It's been eighty four minutes.

1867
01:48:19,439 --> 01:48:21,840
Speaker 2: It's been eighty four minutes, that's right, And you can

1868
01:48:22,240 --> 01:48:26,360
Speaker 2: grab tickets. We'll have the link in the description of

1869
01:48:26,400 --> 01:48:29,200
Speaker 2: this episode. You can also go to link tree slash

1870
01:48:29,240 --> 01:48:32,080
Speaker 2: Bechdel Cast and get those little.

1871
01:48:32,000 --> 01:48:34,960
Speaker 1: Tickets, those little tikies, those.

1872
01:48:34,800 --> 01:48:39,960
Speaker 2: Little chickens, those for Chicken Run. Is that anything?

1873
01:48:40,240 --> 01:48:46,400
Speaker 1: No notes? Episodes over, Bye bye.

1874
01:48:48,600 --> 01:48:51,840
Speaker 2: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by

1875
01:48:51,920 --> 01:48:55,839
Speaker 2: Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited

1876
01:48:55,920 --> 01:48:59,080
Speaker 2: by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike

1877
01:48:59,200 --> 01:49:03,559
Speaker 2: Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskresenski. Our logo and merch

1878
01:49:03,720 --> 01:49:06,680
Speaker 2: is designed by Jamie Loftus and a special thanks to

1879
01:49:06,720 --> 01:49:11,160
Speaker 2: Aristotle Assevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit

1880
01:49:11,200 --> 01:49:13,200
Speaker 2: Linktree slash Bechtelcast