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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of Iheartrading.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome back to the show. My name is NOL.

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Speaker 3: Our colleague Matt is away but will be returning soon.

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Speaker 3: They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Paul Mission Control Deckant. Most importantly, you are you.

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Speaker 3: You are here. That makes this the stuff they don't

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Speaker 3: want you to know. This is breaking news. We have

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Speaker 3: moved our regularly scheduled programming as we record this evening NOL.

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Speaker 3: It is the evening of July fifteenth, twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 3: The news continues to rock the United States and the

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Speaker 3: world at large. An assassination attempt on Donald J. Trump,

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Speaker 3: a former US president and current Republican candidate for the

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Speaker 3: next presidential election.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I think we all probably experienced it very similarly, likely

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Speaker 4: in the form of a text from a friend or

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Speaker 4: a casual you know viewing of of some coverage that

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Speaker 4: then was interrupted. Whatever network is is your you know

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Speaker 4: network of choice for news.

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Speaker 2: We all found out about.

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Speaker 4: It pretty quickly, and it's historic events, no matter how

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Speaker 4: you crack it, whichever side you fall on. I mean like,

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Speaker 4: this is a big deal, and the question now becomes

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Speaker 4: what happens next?

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Speaker 2: And also what happened?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well said, Let's begin with a disclaimer. At this moment,

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Speaker 3: the public has relatively little factual information, and in the

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Speaker 3: absence of transparency and factual information, speculation thrives. So in

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Speaker 3: tonight's episode, we're exploring what happened, what we know for

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Speaker 3: sure right now, and why so many people already seem

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Speaker 3: to disagree on the big picture. We don't have all

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Speaker 3: the answers. Our understanding of the situation will continue to

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Speaker 3: evolve as new details emerge. When you're hearing this now,

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Speaker 3: it is published on July seventeenth, Wednesday, which means that

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump has already made an appearance at the Republican

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Speaker 3: National Convention. But no matter what happens, no matter how

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Speaker 3: our understanding of this situation evolves, the most important thing

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Speaker 3: is that we are here with you, and we are

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Speaker 3: immensely grateful that you, fellow conspiracy realist, have joined us

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Speaker 3: this evening.

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Speaker 4: And you know we're all in the same boat here.

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Speaker 4: I mean, Ben, I know you immediately as you do

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Speaker 4: went deep as much as humanly possible. You have contacts

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Speaker 4: and folks that have skin in the game, that have

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Speaker 4: experience in this world, and you know I do too,

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Speaker 4: to a much lesser degree. But we don't have much

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Speaker 4: more information than you, and we're not here to speculate

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Speaker 4: per se. We're here to talk about what is being

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Speaker 4: speculated about and to give you the facts as we

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Speaker 4: know them. So we're not here to freak anybody out

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Speaker 4: or anything along those lines. We're here to kind of

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Speaker 4: like experience this together and learn about this together and

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Speaker 4: just try to cool it a little bit.

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Speaker 3: And we're grateful that you're here. And with that, let's

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Speaker 3: dive in. Here are the facts. On July thirteenth, twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty four, former US president current Republican presidential candidate Donald J. Trump,

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Speaker 3: whom you may have heard of, previously spoke at a

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Speaker 3: rally held at a place called the Butler Farm Showgrounds

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Speaker 3: near the town of Butler, Pennsylvania. And at first this

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Speaker 3: was like a regular rally, and this is Philadelphia adjacent.

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Speaker 4: It's sort of like a I guess what you might

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Speaker 4: call a bedroom community or like a outer suburb.

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Speaker 2: Because if you've been to the state of Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 4: You know, you go from urban to farmland pretty quickly,

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Speaker 4: and this is somewhere between those two worlds, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: People gathered from across the area and from across all

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Speaker 3: corners of the United States candidly to hear Donald Trump speak.

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Speaker 3: This is totally in line and with previous rallies and

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Speaker 3: not unusual. The next election here in the US war

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Speaker 3: president is just a few months away, so it's quite

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Speaker 3: common for candidates from any party to make the rounds.

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Speaker 3: And what they're usually doing is they're attempting to garner support.

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Speaker 3: They're also attempting to get more funding as ever, and

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Speaker 3: they're hopefully hearing on the ground concerns from prospective voters.

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Speaker 3: This is not unusual at this point. It's also not

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Speaker 3: unusual for these folks to be protected by multiple law

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Speaker 3: enforcement agencies, federal and local.

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Speaker 4: And given you know, Joe Biden his recent performance in

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Speaker 4: the presidential debate, which seems to have caused a lot

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Speaker 4: of folks in the Democratic Party to lose faith in

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Speaker 4: him significantly in terms of his ability to perform and

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Speaker 4: carry out you know, all the tasks and pressures and

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Speaker 4: everything that goes along with being the president. You know,

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Speaker 4: he did a bad performance and it really kind of

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Speaker 4: took over the news cycles. So while I wouldn't say

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Speaker 4: Trump is in victory lap mode exactly, yet it does

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Speaker 4: feel like the pressure from his side has been lowered

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Speaker 4: a little bit in terms of, like, you know, the stakes,

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Speaker 4: and he's not really having to defend himself, even against

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Speaker 4: his recent felony convictions, not even something he's having to

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Speaker 4: go out there and make the rounds to defend because

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Speaker 4: it's not being discussed because of the fact that Joe

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Speaker 4: Biden really did come off as having some evidence of

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Speaker 4: cognitive decline.

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Speaker 3: Right, evidence of cognitive decline. And you know, the thing

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Speaker 3: is the United States Secret Service or the USSS as

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Speaker 3: you would say in acronym land, their job is a

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Speaker 3: political right. They're technically under the Treasury Department, and they're

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Speaker 3: tasked with protecting people like this. The ideology or the

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Speaker 3: political alignment should not matter. And whenever you see a

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Speaker 3: rally of this magnitude, the Secret Service is the most

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Speaker 3: visible group running protection, but there are many, many, many

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Speaker 3: more agencies involved, including local law enforcement, and that may

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Speaker 3: indeed be a problem. I don't think a lot of

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Speaker 3: people realize just how much planning goes into these appearances

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Speaker 3: way before the rallies.

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Speaker 4: It would have to even if you're just a candidate,

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Speaker 4: a popular candidate. This is someone who's a former president.

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Speaker 4: Correct me if I'm wrong, Ben, If you've been the

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Speaker 4: president before, aren't you.

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Speaker 2: Entitled to Secret Service detail for life?

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Speaker 3: Yes? Yeh, have to be.

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Speaker 2: It would have to be.

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Speaker 3: It's not even like a it's not even like a

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Speaker 3: cool side benefit. It's a national security issue for the

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Speaker 3: rest of your life. The idea of establishing security in

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Speaker 3: this case, without going to into the weeds, this means

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Speaker 3: the basic stuff establishing a perimeter, which we'll talk about,

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Speaker 3: scoping out individual duties which we'll talk about, positioning everybody visible.

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Speaker 3: High ground security like scoping getting your getting your playing

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Speaker 3: clothes in there amid the crowd, and addressing what we

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Speaker 3: will call environment or event specific concerns. As the FBI,

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Speaker 3: for instance, clocked an actionable threat against this candidate, right,

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Speaker 3: how do we nip this in the butt? Ald to say,

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Speaker 3: by the time the protectee arrives the person who's being protected,

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Speaker 3: the area has been massively transformed in ways that the

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Speaker 3: average civilian, the average member of the public might not

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Speaker 3: notice well and if.

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Speaker 4: I'm not mistaken, then if there is an actionable threat,

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Speaker 4: isn't it still up to the individual whether or not

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Speaker 4: to carry out the event? Like can secret service like

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Speaker 4: supersede that person's own will and say, no, it's too

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Speaker 4: great a threat, we have to cancel. Because I've certainly seen,

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Speaker 4: you know, instances where maybe there's a threat but the

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Speaker 4: person says it's too important, We're gonna I've got to

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Speaker 4: go through with this. Just be on the lookout. And

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Speaker 4: maybe I'm just thinking too much about like film world,

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Speaker 4: but can they You can't really force somebody to not

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Speaker 4: do what they want to do. Your job is just

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Speaker 4: to protect them despite what they want to do. Sometimes,

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Speaker 4: to my understanding, the the way the decision making process

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Speaker 4: occurs is such that they're these two like these two.

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Speaker 3: Sides of an argument. If you wanted potus or a

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Speaker 3: candidate to do something and security said they could not,

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Speaker 3: it usually gets resolved before it would ever get to

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Speaker 3: that level of longer heads, but it is perhaps possible.

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Speaker 3: The thing is, we have to realize there's an entire

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Speaker 3: industry built around keeping these people alive. Trump's and it

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Speaker 3: went wrong. It went wrong this weekend Trump's Trump's rally

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Speaker 3: for a lot of People's kind of an all day

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Speaker 3: event right there. You tailgating like a concert. You know,

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Speaker 3: people are meeting old friends, people are buying merch and

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Speaker 3: snacks and swagged they're.

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Speaker 4: Getting in the parking lot. You know, it's like a

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Speaker 4: fish show. I'm kidding that part's not true. But there

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Speaker 4: is a festivally. You know it's happening. It absolutely is well.

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Speaker 3: Because you know, if you're winning hearts and minds, you

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Speaker 3: want people to feel galvanized and energized. So by the

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Speaker 3: time Trump hits the stage at approximately six h three PM,

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Speaker 3: the crowd is raucous, the energy is electric. Pennsylvania is

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Speaker 3: technically what we will call a swing state, but the

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Speaker 3: area around Butler, Pennsylvania is has long been considered and

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Speaker 3: self described as a stronghold of support for the Trump

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Speaker 3: campaign in particular. But his speech, No, his speech is

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Speaker 3: interrupted just a few minutes in. It's around six to

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Speaker 3: eleven PM when we hear the gun shots, six to

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Speaker 3: eight gun shots from a from someone who's later identified

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Speaker 3: as a twenty year old man named Thomas Matthew Crooks.

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Speaker 3: These were shots at Trump and into the crowd using

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Speaker 3: what the News described as an AR fifteen style rifle,

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Speaker 3: So like a five point five six semi auto.

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Speaker 4: Which has range, right, I mean yeah, especially is it

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Speaker 4: like a proper sniper sniper rifle? Is there like something

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Speaker 4: that's more high velocity that could hit a target from

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Speaker 4: farther away than we're talking here that maybe the average

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Speaker 4: Joe couldn't get it is along those lines, or it's

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Speaker 4: a little less than that.

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Speaker 3: There are other there are other armaments that could shoot

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Speaker 3: further that would be more specifically designed for this. We

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Speaker 3: know that Crooks was positioned on the roof of a

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Speaker 3: building that was about four hundred ish feet north of

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Speaker 3: the rally stage where Trump was speaking. And you know,

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Speaker 3: you and I both and Paul and Mat as well

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Speaker 3: have found different versions of the layout. Have found satellite

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Speaker 3: imagery you can tell where he was. You can also

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Speaker 3: see photographs of the guy's body after videos.

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Speaker 4: Yesh, maybe the video is after he was I mean

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Speaker 4: a spoiler alert he was taken out. But you know

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Speaker 4: there is there are photographs where you can see what

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Speaker 4: appears to be the top half of a person prone

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Speaker 4: army crawling I believe it would be the term on

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Speaker 4: this roof. And then there are there is video of

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Speaker 4: people that then went to where the shots came from

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Speaker 4: and got a shot.

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Speaker 2: Of his his deceased body.

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Speaker 3: And these are still just the we're just in the

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Speaker 3: factual part. Absolutely, this might be a longer win, but

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Speaker 3: we think it's worth the time. This structure that Crooks

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Speaker 3: was a top was considered outside of that security perimeter,

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Speaker 3: so he himself was not subject to screening, and he

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Speaker 3: used a ladder to reach the rooftop. Then as he said,

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Speaker 3: no bear crawled across to achieve position. He got clocked

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Speaker 3: and observed, but apparently not engaged nor made as he

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Speaker 3: arrived in position with a firearm and a cell phone.

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Speaker 2: I believe he was observed. Yeah, I'm sorry, Yes, observed.

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Speaker 4: And and like like flagged as a keep an eye

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Speaker 4: out even right right, whether by local law. That must

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Speaker 4: have been by local law enforcement if I'm not mistaken.

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Speaker 3: Well, the sieves in the crowd noticed this because again

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Speaker 3: he's so close that you could see him, you know,

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Speaker 3: without any kind of binoculars or other optic assistance. And

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Speaker 3: some people apparently said okay, even though this guy's in

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Speaker 3: casual dress a neutral colored T shirt sometimes described as

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Speaker 3: gray camo for a gun tuber brand, They said maybe

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Speaker 3: he's part of plain clothed security. Other people aired on

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Speaker 3: the side of caution went to whatever authority they could

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Speaker 3: find and said, Hey, there's something creepy on the roof

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Speaker 3: over there.

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Speaker 4: But isn't it wouldn't it be standard operating procedure to

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Speaker 4: have posted snipers looking like posted snipers. There's no point

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Speaker 4: in having a sniper and plain clothes. Plain clothes is

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Speaker 4: meant to blend into a crowd if you're alone, you know,

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Speaker 4: gunman on a roof wearing freaking YouTube gun club t shirt.

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Speaker 4: What benefit does that serve in terms of like any

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Speaker 4: form of like covert operation, that makes zero sense, that

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Speaker 4: would not be done.

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Speaker 3: We know that these reports came minutes before Crooks took action.

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Speaker 3: A local police officer found the ladder and ascended to

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Speaker 3: the rooftop and encountered Crooks. And when he did, when

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Speaker 3: he confronted Crooks, Crooks turned and aimed the rifle at

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Speaker 3: this officer, which caused the officer backed out the ladder,

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Speaker 3: at which point Crooks returns his attention to the rally

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Speaker 3: stage and opens.

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Speaker 4: Fire immediately because he knows his window is narrowing at

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Speaker 4: this point, Like this guy, he's not going to take

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Speaker 4: him out by hand personally, but he is going to

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Speaker 4: report him and people are coming for him, so he

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Speaker 4: knows if he's going to do the thing, he's got

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Speaker 4: to do it now.

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Speaker 3: At about twenty seconds after his initial shot, nearby snipers

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Speaker 3: on another roof fatally executed him via return fire counterfire,

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Speaker 3: and so we have a window of about twenty seconds

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Speaker 3: there of active fire. And due to the extensive video

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Speaker 3: evidence that you mentioned, it's been shared across pretty much

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Speaker 3: every media outlet. At this point, we know what happens next.

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Speaker 3: After that initial shot. We see the former president of

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Speaker 3: the United States, mid speech to supporters, raise a hand

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Speaker 3: to his right ear, and then he pauses and he

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Speaker 3: drops down behind the lectern for cover. Secret Service agents swarm,

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Speaker 3: creating the human shield. A couple more gunshots. You can

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Speaker 3: hear I'm sure you heard this too. You can hear

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Speaker 3: the audio.

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Speaker 2: With my shoes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, let me get my shoes. You can hear the

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Speaker 3: audio where Secret Service receives confirmation of the kill right

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Speaker 3: of the Oh.

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Speaker 2: I don't know that I've heard that. No, I don't

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Speaker 2: think I have not heard that, but I don't doubt it.

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Speaker 4: This is all being captured on the lectern mic probably right,

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Speaker 4: like this is where we're getting that whatever audio was

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Speaker 4: recorded for streaming purposes or for you know, later capture

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Speaker 4: or whatever.

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Speaker 3: And so there's this pause, and I love that you

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Speaker 3: mentioned this. After about twenty five seconds, agents helped Trump stand.

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Speaker 3: Blood is visible on his ear in the right side

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Speaker 3: of space. Yeah. He tells the agents to Paul's just

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Speaker 3: like you said. He says, let me get my shoes,

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Speaker 3: and then he raises his fist to the crowd and

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Speaker 3: he's mouthing out the word fight as they chant Usa, Usa.

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Speaker 3: He's escorted to a vehicle. He's taken to a nearby hospital.

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Speaker 3: Source of hours in the area was one of the

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Speaker 3: first non government employees to reach the hospital before the

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Speaker 3: news hit the press. Later we would learn that was

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Speaker 3: the nearby Butler Memorial Hospital.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and Evan Vucci, who believe is an Associated Press photographer,

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Speaker 4: capture to what again.

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Speaker 2: Whatever side of fall you fall in?

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Speaker 4: This is an iconic photograph that Trump.

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Speaker 2: Knew he was making. He knew he was creating.

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Speaker 4: This photograph of trouble, with his fist in the air,

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Speaker 4: American flag upside down flying in the background, him being

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Speaker 4: clutched by a secret service in full secret service regalia

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Speaker 4: looking defiant. I gotta give it to the guy. He's

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Speaker 4: nothing if not media savvy. He and to my previous

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Speaker 4: question ben about like, at what point do you defer

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Speaker 4: to the person you're protecting versus just you know, no, we're.

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Speaker 2: Taking He had to say, wait a second, he could.

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Speaker 4: Have and I'm not trying to like big up drop

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Speaker 4: or anything, but like he was in harm's way, and

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Speaker 4: he did, for a second continue to be in harms

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Speaker 4: way for the purposes of this pretty incredible photo op.

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Speaker 4: And that was after, to be fair, that was after

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Speaker 4: the kill confirmation. It was okay, sorry, okay.

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Speaker 3: But at this point in this chaos, in this pandemonium, question, right,

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Speaker 3: your immediate question is is this alone wolf? Is there

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Speaker 3: someone else out there? And look, he receives what we

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Speaker 3: used to call a million dollar wound, and that's not

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Speaker 3: disparaging this candidate at all. It's just a wound like

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Speaker 3: that that great is your ear? Are you familiar with

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Speaker 3: the phrase one?

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00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:05,240
Speaker 2: I was gonna ask you the origin of it because

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Speaker 2: I don't. I don't.

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00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:07,399
Speaker 4: It doesn't quite even make sense to me, and the

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Speaker 4: least in the way that I'm thinking about it.

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Speaker 2: So he help us out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so million dollar wound. You hear it in Vietnam

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Speaker 3: or the Vietnam conflict. You hear it in later conflicts

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Speaker 3: as well. I mean, it dates back to like World

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Speaker 3: War Two. But the idea is, you get a type

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Speaker 3: of wound in combat that's serious enough to get you

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Speaker 3: sent away from fighting, but it's not fatal and it's

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Speaker 3: not permanently crippling.

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Speaker 4: Right because to your point in the outline here that,

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Speaker 4: by the way, kudos, Bet. I mean, you couldn't have

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Speaker 4: been sleeping after this event because you cobbled together everything

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Speaker 4: that we have out there, whether it be the facts,

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Speaker 4: whether it be all of the stuff the theories we're

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Speaker 4: going to talk about. But you point out that he

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Speaker 4: could have had his ear blown off, you know, and

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Speaker 4: we're going to get into the trajectory of the whole thing,

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Speaker 4: but it likely was just ripped a little bit and

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Speaker 4: the blood spattered onto his face. Also, there was blood

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Speaker 4: on the bleachers. Yeah, there was a spatter of blood

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Speaker 4: on the bleachers. And I bet you he's probably going

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Speaker 4: to be deaf in that ear. I don't know what

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Speaker 4: you think about that, Maybe not, I guess if maybe,

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Speaker 4: I don't know how that works, he described in his statement,

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Speaker 4: knowing it was serious when he heard a whizzing sound,

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Speaker 4: you know, and.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we know that. To the point about blood

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00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,600
Speaker 3: on the on the bleachers behind him, we know that

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00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:39,280
Speaker 3: two civilians were previously wounded. One civilian was fatally wounded.

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00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,520
Speaker 3: His name has been released. You can find it online

338
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:48,320
Speaker 3: as a volunteer firefighter and tooling engineer. Overall seemed to

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Speaker 3: be a good dude, and out of respect for the family,

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Speaker 3: we're not we're not going to mention the name there

341
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:55,760
Speaker 3: and give them. We want to give them time. But

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00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:57,280
Speaker 3: you can find that online.

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Speaker 4: Also a video out there of I believe some form

344
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:05,800
Speaker 4: of er doctor, a general practitioner who attended to him

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Speaker 4: to some degree, you know, and his shirts.

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Speaker 2: Covered in blood.

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Speaker 4: He's wearing, you know, maga hat and full trump you know,

348
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,399
Speaker 4: merch and he describes helping this guy out and to

349
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:19,520
Speaker 4: use the word brain matter, you know, seeing that there

350
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Speaker 4: was brain matter, and that he said he administered chest compressions.

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Speaker 4: But it's the kind of stuff you do where you

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00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,679
Speaker 4: as a medical practitioner, it's like you do it because

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Speaker 4: you're you're there on the site, but you probably already

354
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,240
Speaker 4: know it's too late, but you still do it because

355
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:35,840
Speaker 4: you know, at least you can say you did it

356
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Speaker 4: because you were there. But yeah, I would appear this

357
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:43,640
Speaker 4: person received a head shot that you may as well

358
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,760
Speaker 4: out there have seen the images of the trajectory of

359
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,719
Speaker 4: the bullet of how it was literally the fact that

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00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 4: Trump looked left, I believe, or let's see, you know,

361
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:54,800
Speaker 4: it would be right to my left if I'm looking

362
00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:59,960
Speaker 4: at the images to look and gesture to a PowerPoint

363
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:06,960
Speaker 4: type presentation on a large projected screen with something about immigration, right, and.

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00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 3: That shows us again, It's something we've talked about in

365
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:14,480
Speaker 3: other shows, the history hinges on such small things, in

366
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 3: this case, a matter of inches or centimeters and look.

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00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,320
Speaker 3: As is common with these situations, there was immediately a

368
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:26,920
Speaker 3: tsunami of speculation, bad faith, disinfo, plain old conspiracy rock

369
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Speaker 3: on the internet. We were talking about it. We were

370
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,680
Speaker 3: talking about off air. Folks like I want to thank,

371
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 3: folks like our Power, Robert Evans from behind the Bastards,

372
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:41,640
Speaker 3: Ocent Defender, thousands of other people were delving deep into analysis.

373
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Speaker 3: And you have to do this because in the fog

374
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:51,360
Speaker 3: of war after a recent catastrophic attack like this, the

375
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:56,680
Speaker 3: reporting can often be contradictory because the real information only

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00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,639
Speaker 3: trickles out at the speed of the investigation. I'm thinking

377
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,120
Speaker 3: about the idea it was very common that I initially

378
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 3: suspected even that Trump was perhaps not injured by a

379
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 3: direct bullet wound, but by glass shrapnel.

380
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 4: That came out pretty quick, and I believe it was

381
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 4: reported by some official and passed on and then sort

382
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,879
Speaker 4: of parroted in the media during that zippity Do you

383
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:24,440
Speaker 4: know reporting window that the internet just like requires now.

384
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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, yeah, you nailed it, man, Because anonymous law

385
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:32,919
Speaker 3: enforcement sources apparently reported this, the journalists and people rolled

386
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:38,120
Speaker 3: with it until Donald Trump himself went on truth social

387
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 3: and made his statement where he confirmed that he was

388
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,360
Speaker 3: directly injured by a bullet.

389
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Speaker 4: Have we seen the image that captured the bullet. Let's

390
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 4: talk about that for a second. Yeah, it's crazy. Who

391
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 4: is the guy? Let's see it was.

392
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 2: I believe in New York Times.

393
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, Uh, Doug Mills, But yes, that's correct, Doug

394
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:03,399
Speaker 4: Mills of the New York Times.

395
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,600
Speaker 2: There's video of him out there talking.

396
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Speaker 4: And you know, when folks are covering these type of events,

397
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 4: they cover it kind of like you cover a sporting event.

398
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,920
Speaker 4: They're using very quick shutter speeds, so you're and you're

399
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 4: just blasting blast bla blater like, so you can get

400
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 4: in the moment. You can go back through when you're

401
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 4: editing and find that iconic fist pump with the exact

402
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 4: right expression that you want, and in doing that, this

403
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 4: guy caught.

404
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 2: It's crazy. You can see this line, this little blurry

405
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:31,680
Speaker 2: line right.

406
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 4: By Donald Trump's head and he saved I mean that

407
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 4: PowerPoint saved his life.

408
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 3: Yeah. One of my old professors reached out and said,

409
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,640
Speaker 3: person with an interest in history, and said, no matter

410
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 3: how you feel about no matter how people feel about

411
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 3: the events, this photograph will end up in a textbook,

412
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 3: which I think is accurate. Well, what would you say

413
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 3: to the.

414
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 2: One hundred percent?

415
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 4: I mean, it's a damn good photograph that captures actively

416
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 4: hits it good for the angle is dope, Like, I'm sorry,

417
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 4: just as a fan of photography.

418
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 2: It's a cool photo.

419
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 4: And we're talking about the fist pumping one, not the

420
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 4: bullet capturing one.

421
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 2: Because the bullet capture where he's on the ground, no,

422
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 2: which is also pretty good.

423
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 4: But the bullet capturing one literally required the guy the Mills,

424
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 4: Doug Mills to have been going through his photos a

425
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 4: frame at a time, because you can capture photos at

426
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 4: the same speed as video, like you can set your

427
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 4: shutter just to do a succession of blasts. And he

428
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,719
Speaker 4: obviously was what is that? And he caught it and

429
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 4: now it's making the rounds. As I mean, I think

430
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 4: we probably again still needs some photo forensics to be like.

431
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:39,679
Speaker 2: That definitely what that is.

432
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,199
Speaker 4: And I just want to really quickly give props to

433
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 4: a guy I think you know, Jason Pargan I think

434
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:46,120
Speaker 4: is his name.

435
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:47,440
Speaker 2: He's a writer.

436
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 4: He wrote that Book's John Dies in the End, and

437
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 4: he's a YouTuber. He makes these really thoughtful media critique videos.

438
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 4: He's been on Daily Zeitgeist before, but he came on

439
00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 4: and just really quickly in this short video said it's

440
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 4: really important during times like this to remember that when

441
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 4: something like this happens, ninety percent of the information that

442
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 4: you read out there will be not right, because in

443
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 4: this day of internet immediacy, the real reporting comes from

444
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 4: actual verification of the facts, and because of the nature

445
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,440
Speaker 4: of the Internet and how what people have come to expect,

446
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,160
Speaker 4: that just doesn't happen, and it all blasts at you,

447
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,679
Speaker 4: leaving you to sift through the wreckage of it and

448
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 4: figure out what's true, and then the real reporting comes

449
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 4: much later. So he just urged people to be patient

450
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 4: and truly like wait for what the real facts have

451
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,479
Speaker 4: to say. So just putting that out there, we're not

452
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 4: trying to contribute to that instant gratification internet culture.

453
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 3: I also want to quote something sent by a good

454
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 3: friend of the show, professor Jeff who is out there

455
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 3: in Pennsylvania himself, who sent us a piece by University

456
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 3: of Plymouth over in the UK, guy named Phil Smith

457
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 3: who wrote an incredibly insightful point about this, who also

458
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 3: echoes the same points of Pargin, who wrote John dyes

459
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 3: at the end as David Wong old school cracked guy.

460
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 3: Very smart dudes. And we see some speculation that was

461
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 3: in bad faith. You know, this is the first kind

462
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 3: of thing of its type that happened in an age

463
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 3: of biquitist social media. So there were a lot of

464
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 3: bots out there, there were a lot of bad faith actors,

465
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 3: and there were a ton of conspiracy theories. The most

466
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 3: prevalent then and now is the idea that this tragedy

467
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 3: had been somehow staged for political gain. Despite the death

468
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 3: and injury to innocent people. And so now I would

469
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 3: say the biggest question facing America in the world is,

470
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 3: you know what we said at the top, what could

471
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,919
Speaker 3: this mean? How can we address these questions that remain unanswered?

472
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 2: Right? And you know, I just popped into my head

473
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 2: right now.

474
00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 4: I recently watched the movie Long Legs, which is a

475
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 4: procedural FBI investigation kind of thing, and I think the

476
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 4: reason a lot of times it's smart to base movies

477
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 4: like that in the nineties is because of the lack

478
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 4: of that ubiquitous technology you're talking about, yeah, or even

479
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 4: further than that. And now I'm thinking back, like if

480
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 4: JFK had happened, now, would the conspiracy theories have been

481
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 4: completely different?

482
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 2: And or it just would have been solved, you know

483
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 2: what I mean?

484
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 4: Like, really it's a different world and this stuff is

485
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,479
Speaker 4: generated from that world. But you do have to wonder,

486
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 4: like what this is like a literal modern Internet age

487
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 4: assassination attempt in the biggest, most visible, you know, way possible.

488
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 3: So we're going to take a word from our sponsors,

489
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 3: and when we return, we'll ask those questions, what could

490
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 3: this mean for the future, and how can we address

491
00:27:51,480 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 3: the questions that remain unanswered tonight. Here's where it gets crazy.

492
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,919
Speaker 3: Let's start with this. Let's start with what we know

493
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 3: about the shooter, Thomas Matthew Crooks.

494
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 2: At the time of his death.

495
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 4: Thomas Matthew Crooks was a twenty year old dietary aide

496
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 4: at the Bethel Park Skilled Nursing and Rehabilitation Center. So

497
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 4: this is his town, you know, he's like literally from

498
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 4: this particular bedroom community suburb.

499
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 2: What have you of Philadelphia?

500
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 4: And again, maybe folks from Pennsylvania and Philly will correct

501
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 4: me on that sometimes there are gray areas of what

502
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 4: constitutes a suburb and bedroom It's close enough that I

503
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 4: would say it's definitely adjacent. You could make a day

504
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,959
Speaker 4: trip to Philly. He was from Bethel Park, Pennsylvania, an

505
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 4: upper middle class suburb just about an hour away from

506
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 4: where the rally was held, which was a fairground. Crooks

507
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 4: graduated from a local high school in twenty twenty two,

508
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 4: so Reuter's reports that class mates found him to be

509
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 4: bright but quiet, which is kay, that's not tale as

510
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 4: old as time in terms of like lone wolf types

511
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 4: or even serial killers, you know, I mean.

512
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 3: He also appeared in a Black Rock ad which set

513
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 3: the Internet a flame again. On July thirteenth, the FBI

514
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 3: disclosed more details about this alleged assailant. They analyzed his

515
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 3: social media footprint and they said, in their estimation it

516
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 3: did not contain threatening language. But then they also said

517
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 3: they had had him on their radar somehow. Hopefully we'll

518
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 3: get more details. They found no history of mental health issues.

519
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 3: They currently believe, and we checked this right before we

520
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 3: recorded that Crooks acted alone and importantly was not an

521
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 3: operative of a foreign power. At this point they have

522
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 3: the FBI has yet to officially identify or disclose any

523
00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 3: kind of motive, by which we mean they haven't found

524
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 3: and so manifesto you know what I mean.

525
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, and Twitter ex or what have you, which is

526
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 4: it's interesting, like I have a dear friend who's a

527
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 4: friend of yours as well, Frank, who is a diehard

528
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 4: Twitter guy, And despite all of the shenanigans with Elon

529
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 4: and changing it to x and stuff, there's a reason

530
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 4: that Twitter still exists because it is a very interesting

531
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 4: cross section of the Internet that's different from other forms

532
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 4: of social media, whether it be because of the comedy,

533
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 4: whether it be because of the prevalence of fringey weirdos

534
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 4: on it. It is entertaining, and there's a real kind

535
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 4: of microcosm that exists within Twitter, and very quickly Twitter

536
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 4: lit up saying this guy was probably part of the

537
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 4: Grouper group, which is a far right kind of troll

538
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 4: four chan type loose organization. I guess I don't know

539
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 4: if you know more about this than I do, Ben,

540
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 4: but the idea being that Trump wasn't right enough or

541
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 4: something like that.

542
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 3: Or that another thing, because you know, I'm all over

543
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 3: Twitter and stuff. Another thing I saw was the idea

544
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 3: or the the sort of wishful allegation that this young man,

545
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:24,719
Speaker 3: this assailant was somehow anti fascist or antifa as they

546
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 3: would say. There does seem to be no proof of

547
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 3: that at this point. We do know that he did

548
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 3: not purchase the firearm himself. The rightfully used was purchased

549
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 3: by his father.

550
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 4: We know, eleven years ago, is the latest news. Right

551
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 4: as we started recording, that just came out. So it

552
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 4: wasn't like his dad just bought it ort or was it.

553
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 4: You know, it was a legacy family weapon right right.

554
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 3: And we know a little bit about political activity. Crooks

555
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 3: was registered Republican, as is his father, his mother is

556
00:31:55,720 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 3: a registered Democrat. His one of the administrators at the

557
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 3: nursing home that employed him said, similar to his classmates statements,

558
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 3: They said he performed his job without concern. His background

559
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 3: check was clean. We know that he donated like fifteen

560
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 3: dollars to a Progressive Democrat center to kind of get

561
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 3: the vote out movement when Biden was elected. But there's

562
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 3: still so many unanswered questions about crooks. As we were recording,

563
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 3: or right before he went into it, the FBI having

564
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 3: found possible bomb making material in his car, just.

565
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 2: Like Magcutional like in the Charlie. Likely he was going

566
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 2: to use it later.

567
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 4: But I'm wondering because when I hear that, I think

568
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 4: it's ready to go and he's gonna shoot and then

569
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 4: set it off the car.

570
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, unclear at this point, but we know that the

571
00:32:55,000 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 3: FBI evacuated neighbors in the area and then extends re

572
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 3: searched his home obviously for electronic devices, and he written records.

573
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 3: But the thing we have to know is to these

574
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 3: earlier points, a lot of the stuff you're going to

575
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 3: hear about this guy is going to be untrue or speculative.

576
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 3: Some people are just getting things wrong with the best

577
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:21,239
Speaker 3: of intentions or with the limited information they have, just

578
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 3: like us tonight. But other people are going to be

579
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 3: trying to use this to push.

580
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 4: You, yeah, in order to push an agenda or to

581
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 4: weaponize this event in their favor, right, right, and really

582
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 4: could just I think I made it clear, but the

583
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 4: Groper thing absolute speculation. But it was sent to me

584
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 4: by a Twitter person who's very active on Twitter, almost

585
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 4: as though it were definitely probably true, like just the

586
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:48,719
Speaker 4: tone of it, you know what I mean.

587
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 2: And this is a person I think is very smart.

588
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 4: But in these times, we're all susceptible to this, we

589
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 4: really are. You have to be vigilant and be patient

590
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 4: to not allow yourself to be taken in and report

591
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 4: things to others as though it's definitely true, because.

592
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 3: You know, one of the number one things the humans

593
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 3: hate unanswered questions.

594
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, and they also like being right and being the

595
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:12,240
Speaker 4: first one to tell somebody something.

596
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 3: Yes, to be promethean. Yeah, that's a great observation. Let's

597
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 3: talk about some of these unanswered questions. How the hell?

598
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 3: First off, how the hell did one guy a civilian,

599
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 3: no military record, no kind of counter intel training, how

600
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 3: did he manage to get so very close. Why wasn't

601
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 3: there already a security detail of some sort positioned on

602
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 3: that roof? The high ground is very valuable real estate.

603
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 4: Four hundred feet it's really feet, not meters. That's insane.

604
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 4: And when you look at it on the satellite, because

605
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 4: of the scale whatever, it looks farther than it really is.

606
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 4: Like it's across what looks like a road, but it's

607
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 4: more of a path, kind of like a dirt kind

608
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 4: of you know, path cut into this fair ground. But yeah,

609
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 4: it doesn't make any sense because you had these two

610
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 4: snipers and their full get up on this roof. Two

611
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 4: why are there two on one? Why isn't there one

612
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 4: on that one and one on the other one? Because

613
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 4: it's just wild man, it's at the very least a

614
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 4: gross oversight and negligent acts.

615
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 2: At the very most some vision.

616
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 3: But if you know, if you have the time to

617
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 3: prepare a perimeter right and you have assuming that you

618
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,919
Speaker 3: do not have a very hard austere limit on resources,

619
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 3: then you would want to dominate the high ground. You

620
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 3: want to command and control that and the map, like

621
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 3: you mentioned, you can see the satellite shot, you can

622
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 3: see other versions. You can see clear outlines of the

623
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 3: initial gunfire and then the Secret Service response. It's rough,

624
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 3: you know, one of the most plausible things I've heard

625
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 3: about how this guy got so close is what I

626
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 3: would call the disease of not my problem. When you

627
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 3: have a lot of different agencies interacting, just like in

628
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 3: any other big live production. To be honest, then you

629
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 3: have to be certain that roles are specifically assigned. So

630
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 3: is it possible that local yeah, yeah, thought the jurisdiction,

631
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 3: Yeah right, Hey, the Secret Service will do this. Maybe

632
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 3: Secret Service thought, hey, the local law will do this.

633
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 3: Those are answers we don't have yet, I mean. And

634
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 3: then secondly, dude, the shot itself, the not just the

635
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 3: shots that injured civilians and kill the civilian, but the

636
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 3: shot that got Trump uh set the conspiracy world of

637
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 3: flame because it's like winning the lottery twice. Any person

638
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:50,320
Speaker 3: familiar with firearms can tell you, for the most part,

639
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 3: head shots are not the norm. That's what you see

640
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 3: in film and right exactly. And for a lot of

641
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 3: people who have been making high bolic statements, the closest

642
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 3: they have been to that situation is call of duty.

643
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:05,879
Speaker 3: So maybe sit out.

644
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 4: I just don't understand why there were two security snipers

645
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 4: with their weapons pointed in the same direction, right next

646
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 4: to each other.

647
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 2: When there could have been one of those on that

648
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 2: other roof.

649
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 3: Usually you want a team of two.

650
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 2: Okay, that makes sense, but still the other roof, it's

651
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 2: just it's right there, man, that's the yet, that's the

652
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:30,959
Speaker 2: real pickle here.

653
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 3: And the general rule is that if you are firing

654
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:39,760
Speaker 3: on a humanoid target, you aim for center mass because

655
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 3: aiming for the biggest part gives you the highest chance

656
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,800
Speaker 3: of successfully hitting the target.

657
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:46,399
Speaker 2: Right.

658
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 3: So we also know that Crooks was there's great analysis

659
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 3: of this on Twitter. We also know that Crooks was

660
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:59,359
Speaker 3: firing to your point immediately after he got confronted by

661
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 3: that police. He was moving quickly so making.

662
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 4: Me invite at a time and gotten a better shot

663
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 4: off if he hadn't been discovered in that way.

664
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 3: So now we see a near instantaneous reaction because he

665
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 3: knows the window of time is now incredibly abbreviated. Firing

666
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:22,919
Speaker 3: under stress, you know what I mean. These are the

667
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 3: opposite of ideal conditions for this kind of I hate

668
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 3: to say it, but this kind of exercise. So what

669
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 3: there are a lot of questions that need be answered

670
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 3: about the shot, and then third, did you think that

671
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 3: pause was weird after the shot they'll let me get

672
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 3: my shoes moment.

673
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 4: Well, first of all, I want to note it is

674
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 4: it a known thing that Trump likes to do his

675
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 4: speeches with no shoes on.

676
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:51,399
Speaker 3: That confused me as well.

677
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,399
Speaker 4: I mean, maybe you know some bands like to play

678
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 4: barefoot or whatever, but like maybe it's a comfort level

679
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 4: thing and you can't see his feet, but it'd usually

680
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 4: when they walk on and off, you see their feet.

681
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 4: They do do a walk on and walk off. What's

682
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 4: the deal with the shoes, that's that's unrelated here. Clearly

683
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 4: there's no shoe. We're not here to to litigate the

684
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 4: shoe conspiracy, but it was an unusual thing for him

685
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 4: to say so emphatically. And then yeah, I mean again,

686
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 4: I think we know that Trump is a master media

687
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 4: manipulator or just you know, opportunists at the very least,

688
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,399
Speaker 4: let's call it that to be fair. And he took

689
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 4: that moment knowing that there were a million shutters going off,

690
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 4: and he knew that was going to create that image,

691
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 4: and he did it. He thought it was worth it.

692
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,839
Speaker 4: But to your point, there was the kill confirmation.

693
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,439
Speaker 2: But there could have been a second shooter, or they.

694
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 4: Didn't know unless they did, which we're gonna go. I

695
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 4: don't know, I can't. I'm just it's it's hard not to,

696
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 4: especially in the world that we occupy. It's hard not

697
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,240
Speaker 4: to have those thoughts cross your mind, is all I'm saying.

698
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 3: And let us know what you think about the let

699
00:39:56,120 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 3: me get my shoes comment. And also, you know, I'm

700
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 3: grateful to have spoken with some former USSS about this

701
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 3: and other related things. Tell us, folks, if you have

702
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 3: any experience in security, is this sop? Is this standard

703
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 3: operating procedure? Were they waiting for the all clear to

704
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 3: move this candidate and former PTUs or was there something

705
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 3: wonky about it? While you're writing that email to us

706
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 3: conspiracydiheartradio dot com. Let's talk about the fourth unanswered question.

707
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 3: For a lot of people, audience behavior or perceived audience behavior.

708
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 3: This could be seen as reading tea leaves because a

709
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 3: lot of it is based on conclusions from video clips.

710
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 3: But we see what looks to be unusual behavior for

711
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 3: a shots fired situation in a largely civilian crowd. Usually

712
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 3: people go nuts, run willy nilly. There's a lot of screaming,

713
00:40:55,920 --> 00:41:01,240
Speaker 3: the smart ones try to find cover. There's some clips

714
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:02,720
Speaker 3: that I think gave all of this pause.

715
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:05,959
Speaker 4: Yeah, I sent a clip around that I just again

716
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 4: just kind of doom scrolling on Instagram, which is sort

717
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 4: of my platform of choice, and someone was already kind

718
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 4: of making hay out of this clip, zooming in, drawing

719
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 4: little circles and arrows, you know, the ones of this

720
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 4: woman in sunglasses standing right behind the president, and just

721
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:25,919
Speaker 4: before the shots go off, she holds up.

722
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 2: A campaign sign.

723
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 4: The shots go off, and she just kind of has

724
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 4: just a stone cold expression on her face, like people

725
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 4: all around her are ducking hitting the deck. There is

726
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 4: all those elements you describe, then the screaming, you know,

727
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 4: the we're trying to get to cover in some respect,

728
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 4: and she just doesn't do any of that and just

729
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 4: gently kneels down, and you see her she goes out

730
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 4: of the frame and then comes back into frame and

731
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:56,879
Speaker 4: has her phone and is filming, and no one else

732
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 4: is around.

733
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 2: Her is doing that just too scared. It's odd.

734
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 4: That behavior just struck me as odd. I don't know

735
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,359
Speaker 4: what it means. I don't know if this was a

736
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 4: plane closed somebody or if what based on what we know.

737
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, like certainly there was.

738
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 4: No take the shot right, because we know the shot

739
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 4: was taken largely driven by that window of time that

740
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,320
Speaker 4: was triggered by the person being discovered.

741
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 3: And to be completely fair, I would say another important

742
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 3: thing here is this could be a function of people

743
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 3: being entirely reliant on cell phones.

744
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 2: So how I experienced the world so.

745
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 3: That somebody may have thought this is for history. Oh

746
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 3: another ques.

747
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 4: I've seen that shot yet though by the way, from

748
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,280
Speaker 4: that particular advantage, have not seen that one making the rounds.

749
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,399
Speaker 2: Just need to point that out. The feds have well,

750
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 2: hold the phones, y'all.

751
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 4: Let's take a quick pause here, hear a word from

752
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 4: our sponsor, and then we'll come back with more of

753
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 4: this discussion.

754
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 2: And we've returned.

755
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 3: Another unanswered question is motivation. Why did crooks target Trump?

756
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 3: We know he was twelve years old when Donald Trump

757
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 3: was first elected to the highest office in the land

758
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 3: in twenty sixteen, But we don't know whether there was

759
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 3: a specific folkrum moment, right, specific crossroads, something that would

760
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 3: make an otherwise apparently non threatening young man launch a

761
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 3: suicide run. We know he's active on discord, we know

762
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:34,839
Speaker 3: he was you know, he was a computer enthusiast. But

763
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 3: right now the FBI has Crooks's phone and his other

764
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:43,879
Speaker 3: cop devices over at Langley, and they're interviewing pretty much

765
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 3: everyone the guy interacted with, ever, all within the reach

766
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 3: of the US as you would. I mean, with all

767
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 3: these examples, it's easy to see how this assassination attempt

768
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,359
Speaker 3: became the subject of numerous conspiracies. I think we're both

769
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,760
Speaker 3: familiar with the most popular one, which we mentioned earlier,

770
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 3: the idea that the shooting was somehow staged orchestrated, and

771
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 3: it's not just bots saying this.

772
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 2: Well no, and then the question becomes orchestrated by whom, right,

773
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:17,879
Speaker 2: and to what end.

774
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 4: One version of it is that it was staged by

775
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 4: Trump or his campaign in order to what create a

776
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 4: news event that would give him some sympathy in the

777
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 4: face of his recent convictions. I just don't buy that, because,

778
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 4: like I said at the top, dudes already kind of

779
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 4: in victory lap mode because of everything that's going on

780
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 4: with his opponent, who is the source of or the

781
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 4: subject of most of the consternation, right, Like, it almost

782
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 4: feels like a lot of the stuff with Trump didn't happen,

783
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 4: Like the you know, the the convictions for the hush

784
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 4: money and all of that, So it doesn't make sense

785
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 4: to do this. Now, you'd keep this in your back

786
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 4: pocket and wait for the polls, see what's happening, and

787
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 4: then deploy some crazy false flag thing like this. So

788
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 4: I don't know, man, in my head, it all this

789
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:10,879
Speaker 4: talk with the Supreme Court decisions about anything done under

790
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:15,319
Speaker 4: the guy, under the auspecies of a presidential act. I'm like,

791
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:19,240
Speaker 4: is this a botched Biden attempt on Trump's life? That's

792
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 4: what's really going through my head.

793
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, to the idea that Trump or people associated with

794
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 3: his campaign may have staged an event a false flag, well,

795
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 3: the concept there, the conspiracy theory, is that this was

796
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 3: an attempt to galvanize supporters, get positive press, distract from

797
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 3: the recent unpleasantness of his court cases, and force his

798
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:48,839
Speaker 3: Democratic opponents into a lose lose situation temporary they had

799
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 3: to be forced into a temporarily supportive position. But the

800
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 3: weird thing is the assassination attempt, conspiracy or know already

801
00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 3: resulted in all three of those outcomes, and you know,

802
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 3: two innocent people grievously injured, one innocent man dead. The

803
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 3: next subgenre is okay well to sow it up. Proponents

804
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 3: of the Trump staged idea point to all the unanswered

805
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 3: questions we brought up as proof of their claims. The

806
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 3: funny thing is, to your point, the idea the next

807
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 3: subgenre that it was somehow staged by Biden, the Biden

808
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 3: campaign or other democratic power figures. It's pretty much the

809
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 3: same kind of theory, but with the positions flipped, and

810
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:38,720
Speaker 3: they're saying, hey, the Biden campaign is at a crisis point,

811
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 3: weak performances and recent appearances. There's that mutually embarrassing debate

812
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 3: his own party, members of it are calling for him

813
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 3: to step down. Maybe this assassination was a Machiavellian way

814
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 3: of pausing those conversations. And the weirdest thing the people

815
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 3: who genuinely believe that point to the exact same questions

816
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 3: as proof of their theory. They just have a different

817
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 3: contextual framework for it.

818
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 4: And I'm mainly dealing in thought experiments here. I don't

819
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 4: really think that this was staged on. I do tend

820
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 4: to go with the lone wolf thing, you know, and

821
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:24,479
Speaker 4: the breakdown of security and communication. There is, of course,

822
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 4: another option in the conspiracy realm here, the idea that

823
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 4: this was planned by some sort of foreign agency or operation.

824
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 3: Yeah right, because fiction has taught us to think that way,

825
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 3: and indeed, the United States has a history of launching

826
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 3: similar operations. If we're just being completely honest, keeping it

827
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 3: one hundred, the idea here, like you said, is that

828
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:53,360
Speaker 3: some outside force, maybe a rival state or a terrorist group,

829
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:58,839
Speaker 3: may have staged a shooting to boost Trump's popularity, or

830
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 3: maybe they actually tried to kill the guy and they

831
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 3: just botched it. In general, when people are talking about this,

832
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 3: they seem to believe Russia was somehow involved, which kind

833
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 3: of makes sense because Russia does have a track record

834
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,879
Speaker 3: of what we would call innovations in assassinations, but they

835
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 3: also have a track record for beat me here, Paul,

836
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 3: those operations up. Yeah, you know what I mean. So

837
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 3: we could see how people might point to precedent and

838
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 3: ask about Russia. But there's absolutely no proof of outside

839
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 3: ops at this point.

840
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 4: Any of this now, and there is another question of

841
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 4: larger machinations. You know, America has long been understandably I suppose,

842
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 4: I don't know. I can kind of see a skeptical

843
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 4: of the lone wolf assassination narrative. I just I don't know.

844
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:48,920
Speaker 4: I just we know it's sort of the same thing

845
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 4: that would drive someone to do as school shooting. You know,

846
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:54,839
Speaker 4: there is that maybe you were bullied, maybe you were

847
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 4: radicalized in some way, but you're not being used as

848
00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 4: a tool and you decide to take it. You know,

849
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,439
Speaker 4: the whole Holden call Field model of it all kind

850
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 4: of being the outsider and you want to make an

851
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 4: impact and leave your mark. I do think that I

852
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,320
Speaker 4: don't understand the skepticism and the lone wolf theory.

853
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it's it goes back to some hard unanswered

854
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 3: questions about similar events like Sirhan Sirhan Lee, Harvey Oswald

855
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 3: and Jack Ruby. There this skepticism there, I think comes

856
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 3: from the obvious dissonance between having the security of the

857
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 3: world's most powerful country seem to drop the ball in

858
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 3: a crazy way and right now. You know. One of

859
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 3: the reasons these questions will continue to proliferate, probably for

860
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:48,720
Speaker 3: quite some time, is because, like Oswald, Crooks is dead.

861
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 3: He will never be in court, he will never respond

862
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 3: to questions. He's not going to speak about his motivations

863
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 3: because it's physically impossible for him to do so. Now

864
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:02,400
Speaker 3: he is a asked question mark a piece of unwelcome

865
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:06,720
Speaker 3: punctuation burned into the already troubled story of an America divided.

866
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:09,319
Speaker 3: And that's where we get to the talking points. Noel,

867
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 3: did you notice that a lot of people and pundits

868
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 3: were saying kind of the same.

869
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 4: Thing, mainly, there's no room for this kind of violence,

870
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 4: political violence an American discourse in American political life.

871
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 3: I heard that when I also heard one thing's for sure,

872
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 3: this will change the energy of the election. What no way?

873
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, and I believe Biden used the term lowering

874
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:42,840
Speaker 4: the temperature on politics.

875
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:47,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's been proliferated that way. Mainstream media outlets

876
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 3: are quickly defining and solidifying their narratives. I'm not saying

877
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 3: that's necessarily sinister, but if you want to play along,

878
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 3: we can help you keep a notebook in a pin

879
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 3: handy for whenever you counter meet about this assassination attempt,

880
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:05,720
Speaker 3: and make a note of every statement you hear using

881
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:09,840
Speaker 3: the exact same language to describe an aspect of the story.

882
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:13,280
Speaker 3: We are confident you're gonna find a lot of seemingly

883
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 3: different news outlets hitting the same phrases. They're cooking live

884
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 3: well it's the.

885
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 4: Same reason that shows like The Daily Show and John

886
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 4: Oliver can do all those amazing clip kind of packages

887
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:30,439
Speaker 4: of like news pundits and anchors saying the exact same

888
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 4: stuff because they're just getting the talking points that are

889
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 4: kind of being filtered down to them, and then they're

890
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 4: sort of making it their own, but they're usually a

891
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:38,799
Speaker 4: bit lazy about it, so it kind of ends up

892
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 4: being the same things repeated over and over and over again.

893
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. Yeah, it turned out the temperatures, I think

894
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:47,919
Speaker 3: the best example of that way. We also know that

895
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:51,799
Speaker 3: there are going to be inevitable documentaries, probably films that

896
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 3: say they're inspired by a true story. A lot of

897
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 3: those are probably already in production right now, just candidly

898
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 3: because Hollywood's kind of ruthless. And then there's another thing,

899
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 3: the internal talking points, the smokey back room conversations. There

900
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 3: are going to be people in the GOP camp and

901
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 3: in the Democratic camp who, when removed from microphones, they're

902
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:15,480
Speaker 3: going to tell each other this is a golden opportunity.

903
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:18,439
Speaker 4: Well yeah, I mean, the talking points on the Trump

904
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:21,320
Speaker 4: side can immediately be like they're trying to silence me,

905
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 4: and I will not be silenced, you know, whoever they are,

906
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:27,319
Speaker 4: because since the guy's dead, I mean, there will be

907
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 4: information will come out, hopefully about his motives, but that's

908
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 4: going to be kind of secondary to what the rhetoric

909
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 4: decides they want to do with this.

910
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:39,360
Speaker 3: You know, think about this, a lot of people aren't

911
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 3: going to be reading policy proposals or the printed or

912
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:48,279
Speaker 3: televised statements from law enforcement. They're going to look at

913
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 3: a photo and they're going to draw their conclusions from

914
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 3: those photos. That's that's the power of the ephemeral social media.

915
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 3: I mean, look, if you work in law enforcement security,

916
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 3: you know this right now. For those folks, the current

917
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 3: rule is silence. No speaking to the press at all

918
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 3: unless you've been greenlit up the wazoo. Don't talk to

919
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 3: your family, don't talk to your friends about what you're doing,

920
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 3: no matter how limited your evolvement may be. That's the

921
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:18,319
Speaker 3: right thing to do. But also we're going to see

922
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 3: a lot of I'm sure a lot of horse trading

923
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 3: is happening the GOP, you know, say the quiet part

924
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 3: out loud. A lot of them are not one hundred

925
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:31,239
Speaker 3: percent aligned with the Trump campaign, but it would be

926
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:34,880
Speaker 3: political suicide for them to say so publicly. The Democratic

927
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,840
Speaker 3: Party in a similar way, is not one hundred percent

928
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 3: on board with this whole Biden thing. And so these

929
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 3: internal factions are forming and they're cooking up their own

930
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 3: responses to this tragedy, along with strategies for how to

931
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:52,880
Speaker 3: leverage it for themselves. And we know it sounds soulless.

932
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:56,080
Speaker 3: We are completely aware of that, but it is true.

933
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:57,799
Speaker 3: Does that sound too hyperbolic?

934
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:00,479
Speaker 4: Nah man, I mean that's absolutely you know, the fact

935
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 4: that you can now again not to be too cynical

936
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:06,799
Speaker 4: about it, but that someone was killed, not the person

937
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 4: that was intended to be killed, perhaps, but that allows

938
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,319
Speaker 4: you to make it an international tragedy, and now we

939
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 4: can this person who was killed can be martyred and

940
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:19,320
Speaker 4: used for this goal of creating this kind of ground

941
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 4: swell of support. But I was texting with a friend

942
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 4: who I mentioned earlier, and apparently down the ticket on

943
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,920
Speaker 4: the Democrat side, there is still a lot of support

944
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:34,840
Speaker 4: for Democratic policies over the Project twenty twenty five stuff

945
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 4: that we've talked about the kind of doom, doom and

946
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 4: gloom you know of all of that, And it makes

947
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 4: sense because Trump is even like visibly distanced himself from

948
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 4: all of that, because I think there isn't support for that.

949
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:51,760
Speaker 4: So while there might not be support for the democratic candidate,

950
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:54,760
Speaker 4: it does feel like there's support for democratic policies over

951
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 4: some of the more radical Republican part policy. So I'm

952
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 4: wondering if this is going to be a great balancing

953
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:05,280
Speaker 4: of the scales in a way that could be positive.

954
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:07,920
Speaker 4: I don't know, man silver lining it here, I just

955
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:08,319
Speaker 4: don't know.

956
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:12,839
Speaker 3: We know the exact same conversations are occurring in think

957
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:16,840
Speaker 3: tanks and lobbying cartels. I've decided to start calling lobbyists

958
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 3: lobbying cartels.

959
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 2: I think that's appropriate.

960
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 3: Thanks man, What the money moves, and.

961
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 2: They make money moves, like Cardi B says.

962
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 3: Right, right. And some of these internal talking points are

963
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:31,400
Speaker 3: going to be later public points of narrative control attempts,

964
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:33,799
Speaker 3: but a lot of them are not meant to be

965
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 3: publicly encounter conversations. So we're going to see a narrative

966
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 3: war happening here. It's already occurring. The larger responses from

967
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 3: the international sphere are pretty much in line with what

968
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 3: you would expect, thoughts and prayers. Obviously, we didn't do

969
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 3: it America. Various countries are saying. But I asked some

970
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:56,840
Speaker 3: folks about the Russian response, and when it came out,

971
00:55:56,960 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 3: it was interesting because it openly stated they don't believe

972
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 3: Joe Biden or the Biden administration order to hit. But

973
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 3: they did say we believe the anti Trump rhetoric of

974
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:13,360
Speaker 3: the Biden administration created the environment that led to the

975
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 3: assassination attempt.

976
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 2: Okay, well, you know what I mean. I just feel

977
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:19,839
Speaker 2: like the rhetoric is a lot.

978
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:24,320
Speaker 4: I've long accused the Democratic Party of being pretty soft

979
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 4: in their rhetoric, and if anything, the Republicans are the

980
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:30,280
Speaker 4: ones that, in their talking points are calling for essentially

981
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 4: violence and you know, low key right, So I don't

982
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:34,839
Speaker 4: know if I buy that.

983
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

984
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 2: Also it's Russia.

985
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 3: Uh, I'm just gonna leave that one there. Now. Again,

986
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 3: there's so much more to get to. By the time

987
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 3: you hear this new information, we'll have developed. We talked

988
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 3: about bomb making material in Crooks's vehicle.

989
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:52,239
Speaker 4: And the.

990
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:58,000
Speaker 3: FBI evacuating part of his neighborhood and searching his home.

991
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:00,719
Speaker 3: The head of the Secret Service we're talking about this

992
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 3: off air is going to testify to Congress on July

993
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:07,360
Speaker 3: twenty second. We'll see how that works out. Right now,

994
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 3: we are just a few minutes away from Donald Trump

995
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:16,080
Speaker 3: making his next public appearance at the Republican National Convention

996
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:21,160
Speaker 3: in Milwaukee, where he will, I'm sure be delighted to

997
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 3: meet our pals Sophie Lichterman and Robert Evans.

998
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 2: That's right. I saw that they were out there doing

999
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:27,919
Speaker 2: God's work.

1000
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 4: So yeah, by the time you're hearing this episode, it

1001
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 4: will be Wednesday, the seventeenth of July. A lot of

1002
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 4: this information will likely have evolved, but we're going to

1003
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 4: keep an eye on it and then look forward to

1004
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 4: having our buddy Matt back to hear his take on all.

1005
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 2: Of this, so you know, hopefully this at least again.

1006
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 4: I can't thank you enough, Ben for doing the line

1007
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 4: share of the legwork here and more and just you know,

1008
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:56,320
Speaker 4: all of the outreach you've done and getting all this

1009
00:57:56,360 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 4: stuff together in a sane manner that is at the

1010
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 4: very we're talking about some of these more.

1011
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:05,240
Speaker 2: Out there theories.

1012
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 4: But I don't I hope we're not lending any one

1013
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 4: thing credence. It's something we're all in the same boat,

1014
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:12,600
Speaker 4: like I said, and like when I said, it occurred

1015
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:14,120
Speaker 4: to me a botched Biden hit.

1016
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 2: That's just what my.

1017
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:18,080
Speaker 4: Conspiracy brain is nagging at me and saying, maybe it's

1018
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 4: that I don't necessarily think that's true, but we also

1019
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:22,640
Speaker 4: just don't know.

1020
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we want your help, and that's that's that's

1021
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:29,040
Speaker 3: the thing. We want to be honest and straightforward about that,

1022
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 3: and that's very well said. We are going to be

1023
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 3: with you. We're all in this together as the situation develops.

1024
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:40,919
Speaker 3: Most importantly right now, stay safe, stay tuned. We want

1025
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:42,800
Speaker 3: to hear from you, and we try to be easy

1026
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:43,960
Speaker 3: to find online.

1027
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, you can find us at the handle conspiracy stuff,

1028
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:49,240
Speaker 4: where we exist on YouTube, or we have video content

1029
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 4: coming at you all the time on Facebook where we

1030
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 4: have our Facebook group. Here's where it gets crazy on

1031
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 4: x fka Twitter, on Instagram and TikTok. We go by

1032
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:00,480
Speaker 4: the handle conspiracy stuff show.

1033
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 3: And the rumors are true. There is a conspiracy afoot

1034
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:09,160
Speaker 3: about our telephonic line. If you are so inclined, you

1035
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:11,680
Speaker 3: can give us a phone call. The number is say

1036
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:15,400
Speaker 3: it along at home one eight three three std WYTK.

1037
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:18,480
Speaker 3: You'll hear a hopefully familiar voice and a beep like

1038
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:21,360
Speaker 3: so beep, and then you got three minutes. Those are yours?

1039
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 3: Run wild all we ask is that you use a moniker,

1040
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 3: give yourself a cool nickname, give us, let us know

1041
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 3: if there's permission to use your name and or message

1042
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 3: on the air, and most importantly, don't censor yourself. If

1043
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:35,040
Speaker 3: you have something that needs more than three minutes. If

1044
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:37,640
Speaker 3: you want to send us some links, you can contact

1045
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:41,560
Speaker 3: us via our email address any old evening of the

1046
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 3: week until the black Vans come for us.

1047
00:59:44,400 --> 01:00:06,040
Speaker 4: We are conspiracy atiheartradio dot com.

1048
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 3: Stuff they Don't want you to know is a production

1049
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:13,000
Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1050
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:16,200
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.