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Speaker 1: Every so often in the course of our show, we

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Speaker 1: have been able to make certain observations and predictions. Tonight's

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Speaker 1: classic episode is about one of those observations and predictions.

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Speaker 1: On the heels of our unfortunately ongoing series examining serial

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Speaker 1: Killers on the Loose, we looked into the long delayed identification, arrest,

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Speaker 1: and conviction of a killer known as the Golden State

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Speaker 1: Killer or the original night Stalker.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, because this guy, James DiAngelo. He's only the

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Speaker 2: first of a huge group of serial killers and other

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Speaker 2: criminals who have been caught through the use of this

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Speaker 2: type of DNA sequencing, you know, going through a family

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Speaker 2: tree and finding out a relative. We're going to get

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Speaker 2: into the episode. It's fascinating stuff, So let's jump right in.

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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. Is riddled

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Speaker 1: with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn

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Speaker 1: this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Nolan.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined with our super

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Speaker 1: producer Paul Michig controlled Decan. But most importantly, you are you.

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Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't

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Speaker 1: want you to know this episode is going to be

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Speaker 1: an update on something. It's an update that we hoped

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Speaker 1: but never truly thought we would ever have the chance

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Speaker 1: to do. This is very much a what a what

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Speaker 1: a time to be alive sort of show. You may

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Speaker 1: recall longtime listeners that a while back, when.

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Speaker 2: Was it Matt May twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 1: May twenty sixteen, we did an episode on what is

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Speaker 1: known as the original night Stalker or the Golden State Killer,

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Speaker 1: And in this episode we looked at the current research

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Speaker 1: and investigation into those at the time unsolved crimes, the

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Speaker 1: various theories, the various leads that were taken up and

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Speaker 1: later rejected by law enforcement and armchair investigators on specialized

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Speaker 1: crime forums on Reddit, all over the internet, and including

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Speaker 1: some of the authors who made it their life's work

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Speaker 1: to hunt down this killer. Today, however, we're telling a

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Speaker 1: very different story. Today. We are making it official. After

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Speaker 1: decades of dead ends, tantalizing theories, and frustrating leads, justice

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Speaker 1: may have finally caught up with the Golden State Killer.

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Speaker 1: Before you listen to this episode, if you would like

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Speaker 1: a deep dive into the crimes and the past investigation

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Speaker 1: of the crimes of the Golden State Killer, or East

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Speaker 1: Area Rapist as they were also known. Do check out

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Speaker 1: our episode from May twenty sixteen. We'll wait.

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Speaker 2: Oh man, that was a good one, wasn't it?

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Speaker 3: Kind of a bummer? Really?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was a fact filled episode and lots

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Speaker 2: of lots of avenues to investigate, but.

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Speaker 3: We get a happy ending here was what this amounts to, right.

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Speaker 1: Of sorts. Yeah, there's definitely a light at the tunnel,

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Speaker 1: at the end of the tunnel.

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Speaker 3: That's a better turner phrase.

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Speaker 1: We'll see, we'll see, we'll see. We hope we as

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Speaker 1: a society make it to the light. Quick background for

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Speaker 1: everybody who just sat quietly the way the three of

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Speaker 1: us did in the studio while your fellow listeners were

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Speaker 1: checking out that episode. From at least nineteen seventy four

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Speaker 1: to nineteen eighty six, California was plagued by a serial

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Speaker 1: break in artist, a burglar, later a rapist, and then

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Speaker 1: finally a murderer who is known by several different names

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Speaker 1: and was believed to be several different people for a time,

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Speaker 1: the Visalia Ransacker, the Diamond Not Killer, the Golden State Killer,

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Speaker 1: the East Area Rapist, and also the original Nightstalker, nowadays

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Speaker 1: more often referred to as the Golden State Killer.

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Speaker 2: I believe yeah, because the Golden State Killer encompasses all

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Speaker 2: of these different crime sprees.

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Speaker 1: And eventually, in the course of their investigation, law enforcement

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Speaker 1: and independent investigators began to connect the dots and they said,

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Speaker 1: we believe this is all the work of a single individual.

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Speaker 1: So not copycatters, not a group operating in concert, although

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Speaker 1: we do have a bit of a rabbit hole about that,

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Speaker 1: but a single man, a man who might never be

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Speaker 1: apprehended until that is on April twenty fifth, twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 1: when authorities announced the arrest of a suspect named Joseph

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Speaker 1: James DeAngelo ju a seventy two year old retired police officer.

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Speaker 1: He was rested on eight counts of first degree murder

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Speaker 1: based on DNA evidence, and more than forty years since

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Speaker 1: his criminal career began, the original Knightstalker would finally maybe

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Speaker 1: be held accountable. This is the accumulation of countless of

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Speaker 1: hours of police work, contributions, and analysis by thousands and

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Speaker 1: thousands of people, several of whom are doubtlessly listening to

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Speaker 1: this podcast today, and in a very real sense, a

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Speaker 1: lucky break. So what happens. Can we look back over

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Speaker 1: some of these original crimes. I think we must, Well,

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Speaker 1: here are the facts that maybe we start with the

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Speaker 1: Visalia ransacker, and we do have to say we are

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Speaker 1: only at this point talking about documented crimes. As we've

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Speaker 1: seen in previous shows, is an unfortunate fact in the

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Speaker 1: US that many, many, many crimes do not get reported.

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Speaker 3: Do you think that, because of what's come to light

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Speaker 3: that we'll find out about more or do you think

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Speaker 3: that's unlikely?

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Speaker 1: You know, ideally, ideally there wouldn't be more defined, but

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Speaker 1: realistically there are probably some. It's just a safe thing

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Speaker 1: to guess. The question then becomes if we're talking about

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Speaker 1: pre nineteen seventies stuff, right, were the authorities at the

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Speaker 1: time collecting DNA? Does anything remain? You know, so it's tough,

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Speaker 1: but who knows. Also, if it turns out we should

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Speaker 1: say d Angelo has not been convicted yet, but if

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Speaker 1: it turns out that he is, that he is convicted,

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Speaker 1: and he already from what we understand, confessed to several things,

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Speaker 1: he may just go on and start naming more names

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Speaker 1: and instances because he is, frankly at the end of

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Speaker 1: his life one way or the other.

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Speaker 3: Yep, maz can often happen with these kinds of legacy crimes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, unfortunately, Well, the vizailureansacker was a master burglar and

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Speaker 1: break in guy, believed to be responsible for more than

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Speaker 1: one hundred crimes. Again, only the ones that we know of.

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Speaker 1: The first ransacking that was recorded was on Tuesday, March nineteenth,

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four, and one thing that stood out to

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Speaker 1: people was that he passed over a lot of high

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Speaker 1: value items, a lot of electronics, a lot of keepsakes

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Speaker 1: and stuff, and instead he stole about fifty bucks worth

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Speaker 1: of coins from a piggybank. That's what he took.

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Speaker 3: Clearly something else at work here other than desire for

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Speaker 3: monetary gain.

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Speaker 1: Right, right, Because there are pawnshops everywhere. He could have

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Speaker 1: taken something and then pawned it and made much more

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Speaker 1: than fifty dollars.

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Speaker 3: Is the keyword here, ransack right because it is about

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Speaker 3: going through people's private things.

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Speaker 1: Yes, just so, he was tearing houses apart, knocking over furniture,

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Speaker 1: cutting stuff up, going in the c it's throwing out things.

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Speaker 1: But he would only actually steal a few small items trinkets,

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Speaker 1: cuff links, keepsakes, keepsakes, and he would also probably the

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Speaker 1: creepiest thing you would do is he would arrange items

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Speaker 1: and what appeared to be almost a ritualistic fashion, you know,

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Speaker 1: like women's underwear. He did steal weapons. He stole six weapons.

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Speaker 1: He was prolific. He committed multiple break ins in the

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Speaker 1: same area on the same day, and he also set

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Speaker 1: a record for that too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he broke into twelve different homes in a single

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Speaker 2: day on Saturday, November thirtieth, nineteen seventy four.

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Speaker 1: And at this point, other than the strange arrangement of items,

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Speaker 1: it looks like a really creepy burglar, right until that is.

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Speaker 1: On September eleventh, nineteen seventy five, a man who is

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Speaker 1: strongly believed to be the ransacker, broke into the home

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Speaker 1: of one Claude Snelling at five point thirty two Whitney Lane.

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Speaker 1: It's now South Whitney Street if you're familiar with the neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: Claude caught someone trying to kidnap his daughter in their

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Speaker 1: car port, and this still unnamed person shot Claude twice

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Speaker 1: and Claude died and the assailant fled. This became the

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Speaker 1: first known murder linked to what we call the original nightstalker,

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Speaker 1: and this murder prompted him to leave town.

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Speaker 3: So he's escalated already from ransacking to child snatching.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, yeah, it seems set. It seems like that

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Speaker 1: was the course. It's it's pretty safe to say that

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Speaker 1: if the daughter had been successfully kidnapped, she would have

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Speaker 1: at the very least been assaulted.

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Speaker 3: And then the murder, though, was a byproduct of being caught.

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Speaker 1: Yes, the murder was more than likely a moment of

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Speaker 1: panic too, or perhaps in some sense meant to erase

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Speaker 1: a witness. It's probably not the primary intent.

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Speaker 3: But the story of this man is one of escalations.

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Speaker 3: I just wanted point that out. And that's interesting that

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Speaker 3: this particular killing. I wonder if it's like, what kind

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Speaker 3: of gave him the taste or something like that, and

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Speaker 3: he's like, maybe I want to add this to my repertoire.

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Speaker 1: I have to wonder too, because we find often in

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Speaker 1: serial murders, like in our previous episodes on Uncaught serial Killers,

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Speaker 1: we do see this escalation. You know, someone starts with fires,

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Speaker 1: someone starts with mutilations, right or running by and slashing

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Speaker 1: someone or choking somebody, and then it builds and builds,

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Speaker 1: but this killer was at this point still lucid enough

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Speaker 1: to realize the dangers if they chose to stay in Visalia.

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Speaker 1: So in mid nineteen seventy six he moves to Sacramento,

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Speaker 1: and that's where he progresses fully from burglary and murders,

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Speaker 1: perhaps unintentionally, to sexual assault.

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Speaker 2: So around June nineteen seventy six, our person here of

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Speaker 2: interest moved to Sacramento, and this is when he's really

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Speaker 2: progressing from burglary into sexual assault. Although you know, he

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Speaker 2: originally targeted these women who were alone. Usually that's what

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Speaker 2: his victim would look like. They would be in their homes,

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Speaker 2: sometimes they would be with their children, and he would

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Speaker 2: later prefer couples. Somehow it switched from just alone victim

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Speaker 2: that he could attack to perhaps, like we were saying,

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Speaker 2: the escalating thrill and whatever he was getting out of

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Speaker 2: this escalated to where he needed to have a partnered couple,

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Speaker 2: to where there is a male and female usually.

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Speaker 1: And perhaps some of that is tied into his perception

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Speaker 1: of the unattainable nature of someone already in a relationship.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps some of it is a power move on his

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Speaker 1: part to someone else witnessed helpless. It's spooky and disturbing stuff.

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Speaker 1: His standard procedure smacked of prior training. These may have

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Speaker 1: been crimes of passion when he got there, but he

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Speaker 1: did a lot of homework. He did extensive research. He

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Speaker 1: would typically break in through a window and awaken someone

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Speaker 1: with a flashlight and a gun so they can't clearly

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Speaker 1: see him as well, and then bind the victims, blindfold them,

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Speaker 1: gag them with towels from their own house, and he

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Speaker 1: would typically force the female victim to tie up her

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Speaker 1: male companion before he tied the female victim up himself.

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Speaker 1: And he operated that way for about a year June

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Speaker 1: to seventy six to May seventy seven, and he had

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Speaker 1: a three month gap and then he returned in Sacramento

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Speaker 1: and other counties. He had another three month gap, and

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Speaker 1: then he was operating in other counties until nineteen seventy nine.

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Speaker 1: And from what the timeline shows, from June eighteenth, seventy

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Speaker 1: six to July fifth, nineteen seventy nine, he committed overall

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Speaker 1: fifty one crimes as the East Area rapist. As the

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Speaker 1: original Nightstalker, he committed seven known crimes with multiple homicides

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Speaker 1: that Marx has moved from break inspe to murder, So

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Speaker 1: stay tuned. After a brief break for our sponsor, we

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Speaker 1: will return and give you a grim introduction to the

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Speaker 1: man known as Joseph James D'Angelo junior.

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Speaker 2: So there are a lot of great timelines that have

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Speaker 2: come out so far, a lot of them pretty brief,

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Speaker 2: but we stumbled upon one on reddit that been found

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Speaker 2: and we're just going to kind of go over this

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Speaker 2: and hit some of the high points and low points

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Speaker 2: in this man's life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you can. You can find this on the East

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Speaker 1: Area Rapist Original Knights Stalker subreddit posted by a user

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Speaker 1: named Sacred Geometry. And I know it might sound maybe

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Speaker 1: a little cursory for the three of us to be

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Speaker 1: citing this sort of source, but this person has done

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Speaker 1: their homework extensively and we found quite a quite a thorough,

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Speaker 1: robust timeline here that follows from the birth of D'Angelo

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Speaker 1: to the arrest. He was born November eighth, nineteen forty five,

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Speaker 1: in Bath, New York.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and just to jump on there with what Ben

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Speaker 2: was saying, I linked up some of these dates just

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Speaker 2: as a fact checking exercise, and the Sacramento Bee has

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Speaker 2: much of the same exact stuff on it, so.

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Speaker 1: And shout out to the Sacramento Bee. They've been really

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Speaker 1: leading the charge on reporting here.

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Speaker 2: So he's born nineteen forty five. Then in nineteen sixty

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Speaker 2: four he wins the Navy. He enlists there and he

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Speaker 2: goes into naval training that same year in San Diego.

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Speaker 1: And this is where he would have, as part of

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Speaker 1: his training, learned a lot of knots that the average

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Speaker 1: person would not would either not be aware of or

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Speaker 1: would not be able to do on command.

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Speaker 2: Specifically, like that diamond knot.

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Speaker 1: Specifically, like that diamond knot, Matt, is that like a sheepshank?

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Speaker 3: Was that some kind of like specialized sailing knot?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, And it was found at several of the

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Speaker 2: crime scenes.

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Speaker 3: Well I knew that, but I just you know, is

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Speaker 3: it a particularly tricky one?

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Speaker 2: Not tricky, just you wouldn't you wouldn't think to make

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Speaker 2: a knot one that way.

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Speaker 3: It's super interesting too, and you you know, it's such

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Speaker 3: a long timeline of crime and now we have a

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Speaker 3: person to associate with it. This timeline that we're looking

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Speaker 3: at has photographs of him throughout his life, which is

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Speaker 3: really interesting just to visually trace his you know kind

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Speaker 3: of progression and think about what he was doing at

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Speaker 3: the time those photos were taken. So he did, in

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Speaker 3: fact serve in the Vietnam War. And then in August

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Speaker 3: of nineteen sixty eight, he goes to Sierra College in Rockland, California,

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Speaker 3: and fascinatingly got an associate degree in police science that

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Speaker 3: could come in handy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he also attends later the year. After he graduates

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Speaker 1: with an associate degree in police science, he goes to

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Speaker 1: CSU and Sacramento, where he spends a year earning a

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Speaker 1: bachelor's in criminal justice, and the same year he gets

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Speaker 1: out of there, in nineteen seventy two, he spends the

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Speaker 1: next approximate year, sometime during nineteen seventy two and nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy three, he completes an internship in the Roseville Patrol.

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Speaker 1: This is interesting because at the time, if we look

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Speaker 1: at the context, many police officers and law enforcement professionals

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Speaker 1: did not have college education or higher education to this degree,

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Speaker 1: not to mention an internship. So it's somewhat strange that

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Speaker 1: we'll see this as his career continues. It's somewhat strange

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Speaker 1: that he goes to smaller police forces. You know, he

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Speaker 1: could have maybe ritten a ticket to Los Angeles or Chicago,

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Speaker 1: but for some reason, he stayed in these smaller areas.

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Speaker 1: The same year wherein we believe he completes his internship,

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Speaker 1: he joins the Exeter Police Department on their burglary task

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Speaker 1: force in May of nineteen seventy three. May of nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy three is also when experts believe the Visilia Ransacker

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Speaker 1: crimes began.

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Speaker 2: When's that crazy? Yeah, the burglary crimes. Hey, I'm on

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Speaker 2: a burglary task force?

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Speaker 1: In such a trope in fiction, right, like the what

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Speaker 1: was that movie about the crime scene photographer Nightcrawlers? Who

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Speaker 1: starts perpetrating crimes? Does he not? Really?

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Speaker 2: Kind of? Yes, he does. He that's true, he does.

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Speaker 3: That's very true. At first it starts off that he's

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Speaker 3: he's looking for the big scoops, and then in order

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Speaker 3: to get them, he kind of starts behaving in a

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Speaker 3: monstrous way. He escalates, or like Dexter for example, not

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Speaker 3: sure it's like a good show exactly, but you know

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Speaker 3: blood expert who is also a serial kill.

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Speaker 1: Or would Jude Law from Road to Perdition be an example?

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Speaker 2: I oh wow, I don't remember.

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Speaker 3: It's been a minute.

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Speaker 2: What was he?

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Speaker 3: What's his deal?

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Speaker 1: I feel like we may be on the verge of

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Speaker 1: a spoiler alert.

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Speaker 2: It's okay.

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Speaker 3: If we say it okay, then it's okay.

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Speaker 1: All right.

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Speaker 2: Just don't don't get Tom Hanks angry at us for

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Speaker 2: spoiling his movies.

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Speaker 3: Road to Perdition spoiler coming in three two one.

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Speaker 1: Jude Law's character is a photographer who is also killing

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Speaker 1: people to get the best photographs of crime scenes. Yep, wow, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but this and it's a solid film.

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Speaker 3: If you haven't seen, Oh, it's coming back to me.

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Speaker 3: I haven't seen it since it was in the theaters,

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Speaker 3: but now I'm having flashes of it and it was

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Speaker 3: quite good.

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Speaker 2: One thing to point out here, in nineteen seventy Joseph

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Speaker 2: was engaged and then he got married in nineteen seventy

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Speaker 2: three as well. If we're imagining, so he's got his

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Speaker 2: professional life, then he's also got his personal life that's

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Speaker 2: going on. So he's engaged, and then three years later

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Speaker 2: he gets married in the same year that the Facilia ransacker.

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Speaker 1: Is right, but he doesn't marry the woman who was

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Speaker 1: originally engaged to. No, he marries someone different. Correct, And

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Speaker 1: in seventy five, As we said, Claude Snelling is murdered

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Speaker 1: during the attempted kidnapping. There's an attempted murder of an

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Speaker 1: officer McGowan in December of the same year when the

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Speaker 1: police got close to handing the ransacker. And then this

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Speaker 1: is when not only does the ransacker disappear from Visalia,

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Speaker 1: but someone in Sacramento begins committing the East Area rapist crimes.

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Speaker 1: For DiAngelo's part, he has relocated to the Auburn Police Department.

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Speaker 1: So again these relocations, at least timing wise, begin to

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Speaker 1: match up.

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Speaker 2: And then in nineteen seventy nine, he gets caught and

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Speaker 2: he's shop but not for any of these major crimes.

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Speaker 2: He gets caught shoplifting. It's a hammer and what was

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Speaker 2: the other thing?

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Speaker 1: Oh it was not tape, but yeah, he got shop,

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Speaker 1: got caught shoplifting small items.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, specifically, I know a hammer was one of the

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Speaker 2: major things.

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Speaker 3: Was is the kind of items that you maybe wouldn't

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Speaker 3: want a record of you having purchased.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, it's it definitely seemed a bit strange,

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Speaker 2: specifically with that hammer. But the police department finds out

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Speaker 2: because he is actually found guilty of shoplifting, and then

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Speaker 2: he gets fired from the Auburn Police Department in August

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Speaker 2: of seventy nine.

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Speaker 1: And many people will tell you that there was a

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Speaker 1: slight pausing crime at that time. That's not entirely true,

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Speaker 1: because in October of seventy nine, we know that there

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Speaker 1: was an attack that went wrong on the ear side

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Speaker 1: on what would be classified as the original Nightstalker crimes,

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Speaker 1: and tried to break in and assault and murder a couple,

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Speaker 1: but he botched it. Then, as the original Nightstalker, there

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Speaker 1: is the murder of Robert Offerman and Deborah Manning in

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Speaker 1: December of nineteen seventy nine. The next month there's a pause.

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Speaker 1: March of nineteen eighty Lyman and Charlene Smith are murdered.

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Speaker 1: In August, Keith and Patrice Harrington are murdered. During this time,

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Speaker 1: DiAngelo buys a home in a neighborhood called Citrus Heights.

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Speaker 1: February nineteen eighty one, a woman named Manuela Wittun is.

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Speaker 2: Murdered, and then to jump back into his personal life,

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Speaker 2: his first child is born in September nineteen eighty one,

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Speaker 2: another huge change in his life. And then you see

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Speaker 2: that there's a bit of a break, A big gap

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Speaker 2: here that happens after September nineteen eighty one.

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Speaker 1: Right, a five year gap in May of so the

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Speaker 1: murder before the child was Sherry Domingo and Greg Sanchez

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Speaker 1: in July nineteen eighty one. Matt, as you said, September

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty one, DiAngelo as his first child and.

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Speaker 3: In Los Angeles, but he wasn't living there, was he?

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Speaker 1: His child was born in Sacramento. And then Matt, as

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Speaker 1: you said, radio silence for five years, at least as

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Speaker 1: far as we know. In May nineteen eighty six, another

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Speaker 1: murder is associated with the original Knightstalker. Thats Janelle Cruz.

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Speaker 3: And then that same year in November, he has his

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Speaker 3: second child in Los Angeles, but did he live there

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Speaker 3: for an extending the amount of time It seemed like

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Speaker 3: he was sticking to the smaller areas well.

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Speaker 1: We know that the murders, at least the documented ones,

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Speaker 1: appear to have stopped at that time. Interesting and as

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Speaker 1: we look, he continues on for a while to have

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Speaker 1: a relatively normal life, despite what some of us might

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Speaker 1: assume about killers, and despite how we would assume having

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Speaker 1: a criminal record for shoplifting would screw up your job prospects.

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Speaker 1: He seems to have continued.

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Speaker 3: He stayed working at the same place until retirement, the

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Speaker 3: save mart, which was I guess he was like a

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Speaker 3: loader or something in a distribution center.

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Speaker 2: Or he definitely worked at the distribution center, and I'm

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Speaker 2: assuming after working that many years, he probably moved up

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Speaker 2: the ladder, but we don't have that information.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, from August nineteen eighty nine, he was working at

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Speaker 1: that distribution center Noel mentioned in Rooseville, California, and he

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Speaker 1: worked there until what twenty seventeen until last year.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's retirement.

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Speaker 1: Age, so he was settled in and everything seemed to

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Speaker 1: indicate that this guy would retire and relative obscurity. He

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Speaker 1: was living with one of his daughters at the time

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Speaker 1: and her husband, So.

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Speaker 3: That would put him today at in the neighborhood of

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Speaker 3: seventy two years of age.

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Speaker 1: And that would put the assuming there's a big assumption

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Speaker 1: that's probably incorrect, Assuming that all the crimes that occurred

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Speaker 1: are the crimes we know about, then that would put

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Speaker 1: him at a murder rate of twelve to thirteen people,

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Speaker 1: forty five to fifty sexual assaults more easily more than

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Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty homes broken into.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's, of course, if he actually did all

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Speaker 2: of these crimes.

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Speaker 1: And that's a very good point to make. If, of

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Speaker 1: course he actually did all of these crimes.

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Speaker 2: He's being charged for several murders right now as we're

404
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Speaker 2: recording this, but it's not all of them.

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Speaker 3: Well what's that based on? Guys? What do we actually know?

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Speaker 1: Well, answer what might be the most important question in

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Speaker 1: today's episode. After a word from our sponsors, here's where

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Speaker 1: it gets crazy. This man d' angelo was associated with

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Speaker 1: these crimes, not through a bunch of people digging through

410
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Speaker 1: microfiche or hunting down old leads alone. No, this man

411
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Speaker 1: was apprehended due to a lead they derived from DNA,

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Speaker 1: a DNA database. So one of the first questions is

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Speaker 1: how did they find this DNA Because clearly, like in

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Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies, for instance, they wouldn't have had the

415
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Speaker 1: sophistication in terms of technology to investigate this. You can

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Speaker 1: find a loose leaf notebook or something, but you wouldn't

417
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Speaker 1: automatically be able to pull that info off of it.

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Speaker 3: Oh totally. And when I first saw this case the story,

419
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Speaker 3: I assumed that they had a sample of his DNA

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Speaker 3: that ended up in one of these databases. But that's

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Speaker 3: not quite how it went down, is it.

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Speaker 1: No, not quite. It turns out that they took crime

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Speaker 1: scene DNA which they had had from the time of

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Speaker 1: the crimes, and ran it through various databases where all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, ding ding ding, it showed a match

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Speaker 1: to what would turn out to be one on DiAngelo's

427
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: distant relatives, someone who was who had their DNA in

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Speaker 1: a public database. So let's look at that arrest, though

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Speaker 1: it isn't until March of this year, as we record

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Speaker 1: this March twenty eighteen, that he has identified as a

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00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:56,679
Speaker 1: suspect in these in these decade old crimes via a

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Speaker 1: public database. And what's strange about it happened in twenty

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Speaker 1: eighteen for a lot of people, is the idea that

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Speaker 1: WHOA and authorities would hold on to this information for

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Speaker 1: decades and not do anything. In nineteen eighty six, DNA

436
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: was just emerging as a criminal investigative tool, and according

437
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 1: to the experts, D'Angelo, as a former police officer, would

438
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 1: have probably according to them, have known that this thing

439
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 1: was on the way, or there was a possibility at least,

440
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 1: So when they started looking for this. A lot of

441
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 1: the stuff we read about says that they found a

442
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: match that was a distant relative. But what does that mean.

443
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 2: Oh well, it means that they took what they did

444
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 2: have as far as DNA evidence from this killer and

445
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 2: they threw it into one of these databases called GEDMatch

446
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 2: dot com, and they found a fourth cousin of D'Angelo.

447
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 2: Now they have no idea at this point who D'Angelo is.

448
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 2: They just know that this DNA matches this person at

449
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 2: least in some way, and this person had used this

450
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 2: ged match program already and the service. And then they

451
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,679
Speaker 2: start looking through this person's family tree, this fourth cousin,

452
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 2: and then they start trying to match up people's backgrounds

453
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,479
Speaker 2: from that family tree, and does anybody match up? Do

454
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 2: they live in Vasiliador around this time? Do they live

455
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 2: in Sacramento around this time? And they start picking out

456
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 2: a few people to look at, and they eventually come

457
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 2: upon mister DiAngelo. And it's a really strange process. How

458
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 2: that just happened to work.

459
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 3: Well, remember, on the Here's where it gets a crazy episode,

460
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 3: we talked about this whole thing, and there was a

461
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 3: story about this very same process that led them to

462
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 3: like a fault positive. That can happen too, because they

463
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 3: they got a hit, but the guy didn't match the

464
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 3: criteria for the crime they were trying to to solve.

465
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 3: So they looked at like his son or something like that,

466
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 3: and it atched a little more and so they went

467
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 3: with that and then ended up not being true. Yeah.

468
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 2: Well, in this case, the investigation is fascinating because they

469
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 2: got this match with the fourth cousin. Then they actually

470
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 2: start looking at this guy and they start staking out

471
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 2: his house.

472
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: For like six or seven days, yeah.

473
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 2: Exactly, and they're looking at his trash. I mean, they

474
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 2: don't they don't state specifically how they got the DNA samples,

475
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 2: but they do say it was probably from a container

476
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 2: that he had drunken. He had taken a drink out

477
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 2: of right, and they would watch him come in and

478
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 2: out of his house, and they, you know, then they

479
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 2: took that DNA sample and they tested it with the

480
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 2: other DNA that they had from the previous case, and

481
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 2: they went, oh, boy, guess what. Somehow we got the guy.

482
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 2: It's him.

483
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the match was not something that was contested.

484
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: We can't be more clear about this. Yeah, it wasn't.

485
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: It wasn't like, oh, oh, this is a pretty good indicator.

486
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: Let's see. No, this this, this was something they've been

487
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: under investigation in a while for some time. A criminologist

488
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: in Contra Costa County way back in two thousand and

489
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: one had linked two sets of cases to the same

490
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: individual thanks to DNA evidence. They just didn't know who

491
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: it was.

492
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,479
Speaker 2: And that was the East Area rapist and the original

493
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 2: night stalker cases.

494
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, and to the point that you made know when

495
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: they get the DNA, it led them to a number

496
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: of people, right, and they had to separate timeline, so

497
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: they had to spend this time surveilling this guy and

498
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: going through his trash most likely, although they don't say

499
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 1: it that way because I don't think they want that

500
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: image of law enforcement to be you know, they want

501
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: to be presented as people digging through your trash.

502
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 2: No, but they will, Yeah, but they will have to.

503
00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: Well, and they you know, they're there is a beyond

504
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: ninety eight percent likelihood, beyond ninety nine percent likelihood that

505
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: they have the right guy. This is the US, so

506
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 1: technically he's innocent until proven guilty.

507
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 3: Digging through trash is just good police work, my guys.

508
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 1: I would agree. I would agree, and this is where

509
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: the story stands. As the story emerges, we're going to

510
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: hear new updates. Well, we can go ahead and call it.

511
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: We're inevitably gonna hear I think the conviction of this criminal.

512
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: On a side note, the neighbors said the same things

513
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: that you would hear about serial killers in works of fiction.

514
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 1: They said he was kind of a recluse. We didn't

515
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 1: think he was a killer or a monster. They did

516
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 1: say he was prone to violent public outbursts. Did you

517
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: catch that?

518
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 2: But somehow you've maintained it and kept it under control

519
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 2: for years and years and years after his children were born,

520
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 2: except for one case right after first daughter.

521
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: Again that is and less more stuff emerges, like we

522
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: have pointed out earlier, Unless it comes out that he

523
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: is implicated in other stuff, I would be at this point,

524
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: I'd be surprised because if there were DNA leavings from

525
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: other crimes, they would have also pinged on those databases, right, yeah,

526
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: because those databases work together pretty well. And this leads

527
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: into the larger implication, which is a big question for

528
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: us today. What does this mean for not just the

529
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 1: like the DNA of criminals and these human monsters like

530
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: serial killers. But what does this mean for you right now?

531
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 1: Listening your DNA. We talked a little bit about this

532
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: with an excellent post in our community page. Like you mentioned, Noel,

533
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: here's where it gets crazy. And sometimes the three of

534
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: us are usually on the same page about a lot

535
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: of things. I mean, and get along famously, but we

536
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: might have some differing opinions about DNA testing, like a

537
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: number of people, and this is just personally, I've held

538
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: off on some DNA testing due to privacy concerns.

539
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good call, and that seems to be

540
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 3: a sentiment shared by many.

541
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah. And Noel, you had earlier mentioned that

542
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: you had experience with DNA testing from our earlier show

543
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 1: Stuff of Life.

544
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 3: I did, and I kind of just threw myself into

545
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 3: it like a big dummy, thinking this will be cute

546
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 3: and it's free, so why not. Kind of regretting it

547
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 3: a little bit after digging into some of this stuff

548
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 3: a little bit more. Not that I have anything to

549
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 3: hide or that I'm worried about, you know, the government

550
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 3: making a clone army based on my pristine DNA.

551
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 2: I would do it if I could.

552
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 3: Oh buddy, that's really sweet.

553
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 2: But here's the deal, Noel. Yeah, what we found with

554
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 2: this case is that it doesn't even matter if you

555
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 2: have or have not submitted your DNA.

556
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,719
Speaker 3: Oh exactly. That's that's why I said earlier. When I

557
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 3: first read the details this, I'm like, oh, I guess

558
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 3: he did one of those and then they got access

559
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 3: to it somehow. No, it was somewhere way down the line.

560
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 3: You can't control. We haven't even met our fifth cousins.

561
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 3: Ben and I did an episode about lineage in our

562
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 3: other show, Ridiculous History, and the idea of knowing personally

563
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 3: a fifth cousin was sort of.

564
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 2: Absurd, well at least for us, for our Yeah.

565
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 3: That's what I meant between between us, Ben, I think

566
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 3: you said you were aware of some fifth cousins, but

567
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 3: you certainly aren't, you know, taking in a movie of

568
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:30,800
Speaker 3: a weekend.

569
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I come from a strange place, but but yeah

570
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: it Matt. You make an excellent point that in other cultures,

571
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 1: in place around the world, it's quite common to know

572
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 1: your extended family or even live with them, or you know,

573
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: maybe you're all in the same town or the same region.

574
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: Not a lot of people here in the US are

575
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:53,280
Speaker 1: that close, and there are these implications that you mentioned.

576
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: It's not somebody. It's not always going to be a

577
00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 1: case of someone signing up directly. We know that military.

578
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,399
Speaker 1: As we mentioned earlier, we'll take DNA samples. Now, if

579
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 1: you are involved in law enforcement on the wrong side,

580
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 1: if you get caught, then your DNA will go into

581
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 1: a system. But the implications are that even if you

582
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 1: say it like let's say Matt may is you as

583
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 1: an example, No, okay, let's say that Paul doesn't it

584
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: has never never been to jail, because he's a paragon

585
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 1: of upstanding, young gentlemanness. And let's say he was also

586
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,879
Speaker 1: never in the military or something like that. And let's

587
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 1: say he also additionally never signed up for something like

588
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: twenty three ae meters or ancestry dot com or anything

589
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 1: like that. If, however, one of Paul's relatives signs up

590
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 1: for this thing, or if one of his relatives joins

591
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: the right kind of organization, or if God forbid, they

592
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 1: get in trouble with the law, then they will end

593
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: up in the system, which means, by extension, he has

594
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: ended up in a system, whether or not he agreed

595
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:09,280
Speaker 1: to be there.

596
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 2: And in this case would be probably metadata on Paul,

597
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 2: it wouldn't actually have his DNA or anything, right, I mean,

598
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 2: that's how this whole thing would work. It's just you're

599
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:24,439
Speaker 2: in the system now because you are related in some way, right.

600
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,479
Speaker 1: Yeah. And we talked a little bit about how this

601
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 1: data is supposed to be made anonymous. I can't pronounce it.

602
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 1: Can you help me out?

603
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 3: Anonymized?

604
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: There we go, hold on one. Yes, anonymity, anonymity, my

605
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 1: enemy's anonymity and enmity. And enmity means many things to

606
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 1: me if we're just going to finish the poem. But

607
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 1: the strange thing here is that we you know, we

608
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: can't help but think of the comparison to big data

609
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: and Facebook or the so called frictionless sharing.

610
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 3: Right.

611
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: We have friends who have never been on Facebook and

612
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: never want to be for various reasons of their own,

613
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 1: but because they know us, or because if you have

614
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 1: friends like this, they know you. Facebook has a shadow

615
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: profile on them. And again, for anyone who heard our

616
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 1: Cambridge analytic episode, Facebook doesn't like us to call them

617
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:27,760
Speaker 1: shadow profiles. It sounds spooky, yeah, but literally everybody else

618
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 1: except for Facebook calls them shadow profile.

619
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 3: I don't know what I think, what their internal nomenclature

620
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 3: is for it.

621
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe they call them like head start profiles,

622
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:44,879
Speaker 1: fun pages, fun pages, party profiles. So right now, there's

623
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 1: no escaping that this stuff has made life massively better

624
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 1: or at the very least provided some sense of closure

625
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:59,280
Speaker 1: for people who are survivors of victims of these horrific atrocities.

626
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean that we should forget the implications.

627
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: At least that's what a lot of critics are saying

628
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: about this stuff. Once you give that data way, you

629
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: yourself have little to know legal protection regarding what happens

630
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 1: to that information, and you have no control over where

631
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 1: it ultimately ends up. We found an interesting take on

632
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: this from the Parallax, which does a pretty solid job

633
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: of painting the backgrounds here of the current industry and

634
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 1: where it seems set to go.

635
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are a lot of possible positives, yes, that

636
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 2: are here in this industry. So it says, quote, the

637
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 2: consumer DNA market is poised to become the ten billion

638
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,879
Speaker 2: dollar business by twenty twenty two. Dozens of companies sell

639
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 2: home DNA kits, Some like ancestry dot Com and family

640
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 2: Tree DNA allow you to divine your ethnic background and

641
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 2: connect you with different distant relatives. Others like twenty three

642
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 2: and Me can also identify genes linked to ten diseases,

643
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 2: including Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, and Celiacs.

644
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 3: Mine didn't do any of that stuff.

645
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 2: See twenty three and me is pretty cool in that regard,

646
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,479
Speaker 2: and I mean it's pretty great. You can see ads

647
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,919
Speaker 2: for these services. They talk about how millions of people

648
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 2: are already using them. Why don't you join in and

649
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 2: let's find out? Say, well, I mean yeah, because they

650
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 2: gotta get that much. But what they don't tell you

651
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 2: is that unlocking your genetic code could also get you

652
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 2: into trouble, legal trouble. Specifically, you can also prevent you

653
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 2: from getting life insurance if you find something in your

654
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 2: DNA that you didn't know was there before, and now

655
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 2: your insurance company is all like.

656
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, yeah, man. It's at least if you like

657
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,320
Speaker 3: lie on your insurance papers and say you don't smoke,

658
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 3: and then they like ransack your Facebook page and find

659
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 3: a picture of you smoking, Okay, that's all in good fun.

660
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 3: You know, they they gave good chase whatever this is like,

661
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 3: you know.

662
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is it. Yeah, Well, here's the worst one

663
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 2: for you. What if you, let's say, do twenty three

664
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 2: and me, then you find out, Oh wait, that's not

665
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:11,359
Speaker 2: my dad. That would be.

666
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 3: Pretty messed up, right, are you my dad? Matt.

667
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,439
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, oh, well, you'll find out one day soon.

668
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 2: Uh so, Uh nope, daddy. No, But like, this is

669
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 2: a genuine thing that I'm assuming has happened. I haven't

670
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 2: seen it reported, but surely like.

671
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,839
Speaker 3: You, you you understand the risk of finding out something

672
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 3: like maybe you don't though. Maybe that's the thing they

673
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 3: think that just pops up as a notification, like your dad.

674
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 1: Maybe they send like a very lung killer guy to

675
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 1: come in and break the news to you while he

676
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 1: takes your fishing or something.

677
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 3: That's one of these things too. If we start like

678
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 3: really like we're going down a rabbit hole here, but

679
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 3: getting into the territory of targeted ads, what if you

680
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 3: start getting ads targeted at you because of your DNA information?

681
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, it is

682
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: completely it used to be possible. We're about two years

683
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,320
Speaker 1: from it being plausible, and it's a spooky escalation.

684
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 3: Like in the same way that person got an ad

685
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 3: for a baby product right before knowing no the father

686
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 3: I think.

687
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: The household received an ad for in the mail for

688
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: expectant mothers, and that's how they found out that their

689
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 1: daughter was pregnant. Target literally knew.

690
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,240
Speaker 3: Before they do it's ray. They called Target.

691
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 1: Boy no kid man. And now whenever I don't know

692
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 1: about you, I don't want to ruin this for anybody

693
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 1: who still receives those circulars and those you know, those

694
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 1: slightly better quality than straight up newspaper coupon books. Yeah,

695
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: when I receive those. Now Ever, since we did that

696
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 1: episode and looked into that stuff, I always get a

697
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 1: little freaked out. And I always try to treat it

698
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 1: like a magic eight ball or some tea leaves for

699
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 1: the believers in prognostication. You know, I always wonder, like,

700
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 1: what what do they know about me that made them

701
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 1: think I need a deck?

702
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 3: At this point, I just kind of wish they would

703
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 3: deliver my mail directly into the trash. Now saved me

704
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 3: as a trip.

705
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: I use it for art projects.

706
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:22,280
Speaker 3: It's cool, you're a very enterprising and earth friendly individual.

707
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 1: Cheap is another way to put it in.

708
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 3: Yep, that's yep.

709
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 1: But her thrifty, brave Cleyon Reverend, if you get that right,

710
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 1: in there's a real world example of this stuff happening,

711
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 1: at least the life insurance stuff happening. In twenty sixteen,

712
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: a writer named Christina Farr, writing for a fast company,

713
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 1: gave us the story of someone identified as Jennifer Marie,

714
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: not the real name to protect their privacy, although the

715
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 1: horse may have already left the barn there at the time.

716
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:01,320
Speaker 1: She was thirty six, gamefully employed, and had no current

717
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 1: medical issues. But on September fifteenth of twenty fifteen, her

718
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 1: application for life insurance was denied. And here's the quote

719
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 1: they used. Unfortunately, after carefully reviewing your application, we regret

720
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,240
Speaker 1: that we are unable to provide you with the coverage

721
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 1: because of your positive BRCA one gene. The letter reads.

722
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: In the US for background far Rights, about one in

723
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 1: four hundred women have a BRCA one or two gene

724
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 1: and it's associated with an increased risk of breast or

725
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: ovarian cancer.

726
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 2: Wow. So she was denied that because she had done

727
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 2: one of these tests.

728
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:42,760
Speaker 1: Because the insurance company had access to that genetic information.

729
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 1: So now does that qualify as a as a pre

730
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 1: existing condition? Does you know? Is it something where we

731
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 1: would have to say from the life insurance company. And

732
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 1: you know, of course the US this privatized insurance. From

733
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 1: the life insurance company's perspective, is it a matter of

734
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:08,720
Speaker 1: in the long run, protecting the rest of their customers.

735
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 2: So they don't go under you mean, right?

736
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 1: Is that part of it? How do they how do

737
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,319
Speaker 1: they address that? How do they process that?

738
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 2: Stop being private companies selling health insurance? That's how that's

739
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:22,399
Speaker 2: how they fix that.

740
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 1: A lot of people would make that argument, but there

741
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 1: is there is hope in form of the Genetic Non

742
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 1: Discrimination Act, which we mentioned I think previously as well,

743
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 1: and also known as GINA. It is meant to prohibit

744
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 1: employers and health insurance from using your genetic info against you. However,

745
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 1: it is full of loopholes, and Congress is going to

746
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 1: swiss cheeze it a little bit more. And this goes

747
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 1: back to that question we asked before, and we received

748
00:44:52,600 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 1: a fantastic comment regarding the the idea of how to

749
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: prioritize technological progress and potential gains. Right, if we're risking

750
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: ruining the lives and the livelihoods of a few people,

751
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: certainly maybe more than we think, is that worth the

752
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 1: potential of saving maybe hundreds of thousands or even millions

753
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 1: of lives down the line. I mean, this becomes a

754
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 1: very deep dilemma very quickly. I don't know, what do

755
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 1: you guys think. We talked about it a little bit

756
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 1: about this earlier.

757
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 2: I definitely see the side and mentioned this in the

758
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 2: other episode that we were just recorded. Just I do

759
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 2: see this as being a great thing potentially in the

760
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:46,320
Speaker 2: long run, specifically fixing a lot of these genetic disorders,

761
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,800
Speaker 2: just by having enough data, because that's one of the

762
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,839
Speaker 2: biggest problems is not being able to track DNA over

763
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:57,240
Speaker 2: time and looking at how these specific sequences actually change

764
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 2: a human beings development. I think it could be huge,

765
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 2: and it could be exactly what we need.

766
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 3: But is it for everybody? Though? Like it is it

767
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 3: going to mean that the wealthy are going to be

768
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 3: prioritized and be able to, you know, extend their lives

769
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 3: and the lives of their offspring by having access to

770
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:15,240
Speaker 3: this because of their wealth.

771
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 2: Certainly, Yes, that's what will happen until there's some big change.

772
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:25,839
Speaker 2: And here's the here's the other thing. What happens when

773
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 2: let's just say, the wrong group of people ends up

774
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,399
Speaker 2: getting in power somehow, and there are all of these

775
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 2: databases that can be found and someone in power wants to,

776
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 2: let's say, get rid of certain types of DNA in

777
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 2: the culture, right, mass eugenics or something. You've got literally

778
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 2: all of the data that you would ever need for that,

779
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 2: if you know, it's compulsory, and everyone eventually one day

780
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 2: signs up for something like this because you kind of

781
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 2: have to.

782
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: And instead of present your papers the way it was

783
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 1: in various world wars, it's spit into this tube and

784
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 1: stand here.

785
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, wait, I.

786
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 1: Mean that's it. That's a terrifying thing. We'd all like

787
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 1: to think it's it's far it's far off right, or

788
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:15,319
Speaker 1: that it's not actually going to happen sort of a

789
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 1: nimby process and not in my backyard. But at this point,

790
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 1: you know, again, if you haven't written into us about this,

791
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 1: we we we want to hear from you. Where do

792
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 1: you fall on this side of the line, And we

793
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:32,720
Speaker 1: want to end today's episode with, first off, a clear

794
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 1: admission again, Joseph James DeAngelo has not been convicted. He

795
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:42,439
Speaker 1: is he is talking from what we understand, and he

796
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 1: is confessing, but that doesn't he hasn't had the core

797
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:50,360
Speaker 1: time yet. Although it's it's pretty much a clear cuta.

798
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: Do we know anything about his mental state? Apparently, aside

799
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:59,839
Speaker 1: from the violent outburst, he does appear lucid interesting, which

800
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:04,760
Speaker 1: is which is interesting. And you know right now, given

801
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 1: the time that it's elapsed, if there are other crimes

802
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: or murders, he is literally the best chance of finding them.

803
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, And every day we're finding out new things.

804
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 2: I would follow the Sacramento Bee online if you can,

805
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:18,320
Speaker 2: you have the time to do it, and you're interested

806
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 2: in this case. There are all kinds of new little

807
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,799
Speaker 2: stories about maybe he had an accomplice during some of

808
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 2: these crimes, maybe it was a breakup that sent him

809
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 2: on that first raping spring, unsuccessful engagement. Yeah, I mean

810
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:32,879
Speaker 2: there's all there was all kinds of interesting things coming out,

811
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 2: and I just have to say, like we said before,

812
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 2: the Sacramento Bee is the place that I'm finding them

813
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 2: the soonest.

814
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 1: And we have one other thing here, not a conclusion.

815
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,319
Speaker 1: There's not really a conclusion to this story yet and

816
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 1: not a shout out corner, though we will be returning

817
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 1: that segment soon. We have something that when we were

818
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 1: talking about this off air, we were all texting each

819
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 1: other as we were working on this, and Noel, you

820
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: pointed out to us another recent development involving DNA and killers.

821
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 3: And the Sacramento b They I believe, were first on

822
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 3: the scene to report that police in the Laho have

823
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 3: obtained DNA supposedly linked to the Zodiac killer and that

824
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 3: it's being processed in a lab and we could see

825
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 3: results any day now. This was on May the second, And.

826
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 2: They're probably going to do a lot of the same

827
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:31,280
Speaker 2: things here, or at least potentially doing the same things,

828
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 2: finding that match, linking that up, and then going from there,

829
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 2: familial searches, looking in that trash again, maybe.

830
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 1: Maybe going through belongates. Yeah, you know, there's not really

831
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:47,919
Speaker 1: a different way to phrase it. But today this ends

832
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 1: our episode. From now our update on the Golden State

833
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 1: Killer aka the Diamond Knot Killer, aka the Original Nightstalker

834
00:49:56,080 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 1: aka the East Area Rapist, and the Salia Ransacker. We

835
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 1: would like to hear from you. What do you think

836
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 1: will be the results of this What do you think

837
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 1: of a world wherein for the greater good, everyone's DNA

838
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 1: is considered part of this large database. Would do you

839
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 1: think the benefits outweigh the negatives? I mean, in this case,

840
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 1: it seems pretty clear cut that they do.

841
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 3: I propose that it's very similar to requiring you, this

842
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 3: is going to be controversial, maybe to register your car.

843
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 3: Your car has to be in a database because it

844
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:37,879
Speaker 3: could either allow you to escape from a criminal act

845
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 3: or you could even use it as a weapon. It

846
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:43,000
Speaker 3: is a very powerful thing, and you can't have a

847
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 3: car unless you register it. You can do all those

848
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 3: things with the human body. So yeah, that logic. I mean,

849
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that I necessarily support that, but I

850
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:55,320
Speaker 3: could see law enforcement surely thinking that this is something

851
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 3: that would be very helpful and important to solving crimes,

852
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 3: but at the risk of of what privacy? And uh,

853
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 3: it's my DNA.

854
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 1: You also have a requirement to have a license to

855
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:09,799
Speaker 1: operate a car, would you have would that lead into

856
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:13,759
Speaker 1: having a license to reproduce? I mean, I'll double down

857
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 1: on controversy here. Uh, there are inevitably some some of

858
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:23,240
Speaker 1: you listening are are going to see the potential parallel

859
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 1: thread between registering a car, registering DNA, registering a firearm.

860
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 1: If we're going to go controversial, right, yeah, I don't

861
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, that's a really interesting argument, Noel,

862
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 1: Because you can't have an unregistered car yeah.

863
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:40,279
Speaker 3: But you're right though, when you start going, you know,

864
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,319
Speaker 3: taking that and taking it too, well, what if then

865
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 3: you need a license to reproduce? Or then we start

866
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:49,799
Speaker 3: entering when we start when we start putting our physical

867
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:53,319
Speaker 3: forms into the into the equation and treating them as

868
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:55,440
Speaker 3: though we as though it were a motor vehicle or

869
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 3: a gun or something like that, that really opens up

870
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 3: a lot of a lot of worm It is interesting.

871
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:06,479
Speaker 2: Bat your bags, I am. It's so weird. I would

872
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 2: have been so against this, like one thousand percent against

873
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 2: all of this, and for some reason, somehow, as I'm

874
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 2: getting older, oh gosh, you guys, I'm kind of like, well,

875
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:22,319
Speaker 2: get everyone a DNA scanned and put it on a

876
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 2: tattoo and then their arms and they're registered. And if

877
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:29,879
Speaker 2: anyone doesn't, no no, we will find you a no

878
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:32,360
Speaker 2: no yes for you, no no, then we get you.

879
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:35,359
Speaker 1: I love this voice. It sounds like he's either got

880
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 1: loose dentures or he's also eating cottage cheese. I'm not sure.

881
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:41,840
Speaker 2: The cottage cheese is one of the finest foods you

882
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,320
Speaker 2: can eat. I would recommend it early in the morning

883
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:47,399
Speaker 2: and late in the afternoon and also early at night.

884
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 1: Well, you know what, Matt, I have to say, thank

885
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:54,840
Speaker 1: you so much for giving us a note of levity,

886
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: gracing us, Yeah, gracing.

887
00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:00,759
Speaker 3: Us, goodness, gracious, that was saying, I can't smiling at

888
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 3: that old man.

889
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 1: Man.

890
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 3: That's what happens too. You get old, you start to

891
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 3: decide you want to give up all your civil liberties,

892
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 3: or at least the young whipper snappers should, right, I

893
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:13,480
Speaker 3: agree with with with those realizations. Also, your voice changes

894
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:16,399
Speaker 3: and you start to sound like a very very old man.

895
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's mostly the testicular group, I think is what

896
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:23,680
Speaker 2: causes that. I keep trying to get a rise out

897
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:26,840
Speaker 2: of Paul mission control decking, and he's just not even No,

898
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 2: that's not sure him.

899
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 3: From the angle that I'm seeing him, he had a Yeah,

900
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 3: he's got a smirk. He's got a bit of a

901
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 3: glimmer of a smile.

902
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:38,239
Speaker 1: All right, And there's always one to thank you for

903
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 1: tuning in. You are the most important part of the show,

904
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:43,919
Speaker 1: and we would like to hear from you.

905
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 2: Tell us what do you think about DNA collection and

906
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:48,719
Speaker 2: all of this stuff. Do you think they got the

907
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,839
Speaker 2: right person? Do you think there's someone else out there?

908
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:54,840
Speaker 2: What else do you think about the East Area rapist.

909
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:57,359
Speaker 2: Have you ever lived in any of those places? How

910
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:00,719
Speaker 2: did these crimes affect you growing up? Just anything you

911
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 2: want to talk about. Is there another serial killer that

912
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:05,839
Speaker 2: you think we need to jump and jump into a

913
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:08,880
Speaker 2: little bit deeper, or maybe information about the Zodiac Killer,

914
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:11,319
Speaker 2: because that may potentially be an episode coming up with

915
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 2: all the things happening right now with that case, talk

916
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:16,319
Speaker 2: to us, let us know.

917
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 3: You can hit us up on Facebook most of the

918
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:23,360
Speaker 3: social media's We are Conspiracy Stuff on Facebook, we are

919
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 3: Conspiracy Stuff show on Instagram. And if you have a

920
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:29,880
Speaker 3: cool story, a little missive something about growing up in

921
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:31,799
Speaker 3: one of these areas, we would love it if you

922
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:33,480
Speaker 3: left us a voicemail.

923
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 2: Please we are And that's the end of this classic episode.

924
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:42,360
Speaker 2: If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode,

925
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:44,800
Speaker 2: you can get into contact with us in a number

926
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:46,799
Speaker 2: of different ways. One of the best is to give

927
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:49,319
Speaker 2: us a call. Our number is one eight three three

928
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:53,319
Speaker 2: std WYTK. If you don't want to do that, you

929
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:55,240
Speaker 2: can send us a good old fashioned email.

930
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

931
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 2: Enough that they don't want you to know is a

932
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 2: production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the

933
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:08,719
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

934
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 2: favorite shows.