WEBVTT - #37 John 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:06.920 I really appreciate your inquiring after my health. It means 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:11.840 a lot. Where are you right now? You're on your chair? 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:15.920 What does that mean Paris? Oh excuse me, madame. There 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:17.319 was a time when you were to have referred to 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:22.319 it as a balcony. Falcony la la, Okay, listen, I 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:25.760 have to I just have to say one thing, just 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:31.400 one thing. One can I tell you you're my wonder 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:43.440 From Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:54.720 Today's episode. John right after the break. 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:02.200 I'm happy to do a three two one start if 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:04.040 it'll be helpful, but I also don't need to. 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:05.880 Let's do a three two one start. 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:07.800 I'll do it, and then you just do the work. 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:10.360 This is John Green, the author of some of the 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:13.920 most popular and beloved YA novels of the twenty first century, 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:20.440 books like The Fault in Our Stars three two one start. 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:23.160 We were so in sync it was like we were 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:26.920 singing do wa. But there's a version of John's life 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:30.040 in which none of his books exist. Because as a 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:33.160 young man in his twenties, John wanted to dedicate his 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:34.240 life to the church. 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:38.760 I wanted to become an ordained minister. I wanted to 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:39.920 go to Divinity School. 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:46.360 At the time, John was struggling with feelings of dread 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:50.320 and depression. He was searching for meaning and purpose. He 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:53.000 thought a life in the ministry might offer a way forward. 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:56.080 So that was the road that you were on. You 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:57.480 were going to go to Divinity school. 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:01.480 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I got in and then 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:09.760 I didn't go because why because of my time as 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:10.359 a chaplain. 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:15.360 In anticipation of Divinity school, John began an apprenticeship as 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:19.320 a chaplain and an Ohio children's hospital. Up until then, 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:23.280 John's relationship to his faith had been mostly philosophical. He 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:25.799 do a lot of thinking about God in the abstract, 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:28.760 but at the hospital his faith would be put to 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:33.640 the test as he dealt with actual people experiencing actual tragedy. 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:37.080 John was assigned to the children's cardiac and neurology units. 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:41.320 But I was twenty one years old. I mean it 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:43.160 was my first job. Like, it was my first job 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:46.920 other than working at Stake and Shake, and like I 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:49.000 was a shitty chaplain. 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:50.760 Why do you feel that way? 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:55.560 Oh? I mean I fainted, which is like you don't. 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:58.680 It's bad. You can't faint. You can't, you can't you 0:02:58.720 --> 0:02:59.280 can't faint. 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:09.600 John Hope that with time he'd grown too the job, 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:12.680 but then came a night that made him question whether 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:16.280 he was suited for the job at all. A quick 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:19.760 word of warning, some of John's descriptions here are pretty graphic. 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:24.200 I think it was my third night on call, so 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:29.160 I was still really new at being a chaplain, and 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:34.240 I was reading a grief Observed by C. S. Lewis, 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:38.960 which is about the death of his wife, and the 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:44.520 trauma pager went off and it was a burn injury 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:51.960 three year old boy. I went downstairs to the emergency 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:55.080 department and there was this social worker who was like 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:58.280 a character out of a noir mystery novel. She was 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:03.120 just hard as fuck, and she handed me a mask 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:11.280 and a piece of gum. Why gum, because this the 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:19.840 smell of burns is so is so terrible. And then 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:24.000 this kid. They wheeled this kid in, you know, paramedics 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:25.920 on either side of him, and the kid was screaming, 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:32.839 scream just screaming, like just in obvious agony, and was 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:41.760 very very small. It was a brushfire, and my understanding 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:48.200 is that his dad had been like burning leaves and 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:52.600 like it it had like just gotten a little bit 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:57.760 out of it had just spread a little bit, and 0:04:57.800 --> 0:04:59.440 then he went inside you down nine on when he 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:03.400 came back and the fire had like surrounded the kid. 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:12.320 There was this like staff room and I'd gone in 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:17.040 there to just have a cup of coffee, and this 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:22.080 young doctor was throwing up in the trash can and 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:29.560 really upset, and she said that that kid's gonna die. 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:37.360 And I remember his pediatrician came in. She went in 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:39.680 to the to the ICU and she came out and 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:47.880 she was just sobbing, and that freak. It just freaked 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:51.040 me out so badly because I'd never seen a doctor 0:05:52.839 --> 0:06:00.800 react like that, you know. And so that that night 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:04.680 was a very long night. Took the parents into this 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:11.359 this windowless family room. After after a while, I stayed 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:18.800 up all night with the with his parents, And the 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:23.000 next morning, at eight a m. I handed over the 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:28.839 pager and I drove. I drove home and I got 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:32.360 in the shower and I was in the shower for 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:36.279 like an hour and a half and I couldn't I 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:42.360 couldn't stop smelling the burn, and I I just couldn't 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:51.440 stop thinking about this kid and his parents, and I 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:55.160 also was I I was also frankly really relieved. Not 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:58.320 you know that, I got to go home, I got 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:04.360 to hand off the pager, and I knew that they wouldn't. 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:08.919 When John went back to work the next day, the 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:12.160 little boy, whose name was Nick was no longer there, 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:24.320 and that was the last John heard about him. 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:30.320 I couldn't see I couldn't see God within those experiences. 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:35.000 I just couldn't. And I thought, you know, if how 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:39.440 can you do this as a job if part of 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:43.560 you is sitting there thinking, you know, the God I 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.280 am calling to be present in this moment. I don't 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:47.800 feel present in this moment. 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:50.840 John was losing his faith. 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:54.880 Spent the last months of my period as a chaplain 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:56.760 knowing full well that I wasn't going to go to 0:07:56.800 --> 0:08:00.120 Divinity School and I wasn't going to become a minister. Well, 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:02.480 I was never I wasn't going to be a minister. 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:12.600 Without Divinity School, John had to rethink his whole life. 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:15.160 He'd always seen his writing in service to the sermons 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:18.520 he planned to give, but now there would be no sermons. 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:22.840 In fact, John had stopped going to church entirely, yet 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:25.640 his love of writing remained, so he got temp work 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:28.680 at a magazine and eventually found his footing as a writer, 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:32.160 but his time as a chaplain at the children's hospital, 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:35.360 and specifically that night with Nick, kept finding its way 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:38.760 into his books. In Looking for Alaska, the death of 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:42.000 a young boy's friend raises questions about the meaning of life. 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:46.000 In the Fault in Our Stars, two teenagers with cancer 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:47.000 fall in love. 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:50.079 There are versions of me trying to make sense of 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:52.600 that time in my life. 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:56.840 Throughout the years of trying to make sense through writing, 0:08:57.040 --> 0:09:00.319 through therapy, John still couldn't get Nick off his mind. 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:03.319 I knew I could google him, you know. I knew 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:06.040 I could google the family. I remembered the parents' names. 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:08.640 They have an unusual surname. I knew it would not 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:13.080 be hard. I would think, I should just know, I 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:15.520 should just it would be better to know if he died, 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:18.600 And then I would go back and I would say, like, no, 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:21.240 you don't. You don't want to know. You don't like, 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:24.480 you don't want to know that he's dead. You definitely don't. 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:27.960 I mean, there were a few times when I literally 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:31.319 typed his name into the Google search bar and then 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:40.400 didn't hit search. And now I have, you know, and 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:41.960 now I have kids of my own and when my 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:44.240 kids were that age. I saw them both on that 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:49.680 on that gurney again and again. I'd still think about 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:53.320 him and his parents every single day, and I have 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:56.960 for twenty years now, so half my life. 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:01.120 But it was more than just John thinking about Even 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:03.920 after he'd stopped going to church, had told himself that 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:07.480 he no longer believed. Every night during those twenty years, 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:10.280 John prayed for Nick and his family. 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:14.280 I've prayed for them, even in periods when I didn't 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:20.000 really believe in prayer. I don't think I literally don't 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:23.640 think I've prayed for anyone every day, excep this one kid, 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:26.400 Like I don't know that I've prayed for my children. 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.640 Then one day, after years of obsessing over Nick's fate, 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:39.000 John had a new thought. 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:42.520 You know, maybe he is maybe he is alive. You 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:47.160 don't know, how do you know? Like you're basing this 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:52.679 decade plus of worry on one thing that one distraught 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.800 doctor said to you, like while heaving into a trash can, 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:56.559 Like you don't know. 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:01.440 So once again John type Nick's name into the search bar, 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:05.880 but this time he hit search. 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:13.080 And it was quite easy. You know, I was the 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:15.760 thirty seconds between when I googled him, and when I 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:24.480 was at his Facebook and he was alive, alive, and 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:32.480 his parents were married, and I I just just sobbed. 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:41.240 I just felt like I was just so glad that 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:44.800 he was alive. And I also felt like it reminded 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:47.000 me of how glad I am that everyone is alive, 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:48.680 if that makes any sense. 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:49.880 What do you mean? 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:55.880 That is just just an absolute fucking miracle that any 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:58.200 of us is here. And I just I was just 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:00.800 so I was relieved, but I was also like just 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:06.080 overjoyed and and and so sad. I I can't I 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:08.959 can't describe how it felt. I just remember like going 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:13.199 into his like Facebook likes at just like laughing and 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:16.800 crying and being like this kid and I have nothing, 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:21.920 nothing in coffee and I and I'm so glad that 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:22.600 he is here. 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:26.839 You know, with the relief of knowing that Nick's out 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:30.480 there living alife, John has begun considering a new question, 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:32.280 is it a good life? 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:34.800 I want to I want to know that. I want 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:37.880 to know that he's he's he's okay, that he's doing that, 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:38.680 he's doing okay. 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:41.760 Yeah, and what what what does that? What does that 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:44.560 mean for you? Because like you've seen his Facebook. 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:47.280 Yeah. Do you know anybody with a Facebook who's unhappy though, 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:51.080 or like who has like a tough I don't know. 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:54.800 So John wants to talk with Nick, but at the 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:57.920 same time, he's plagued by worry what would be the 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:00.280 outcome of his reaching out? What did be in it 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:04.040 for Nick? John tries to answer those questions by putting 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:05.240 himself in nick shoes. 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:07.959 I can see how maybe it's helpful to him to 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:12.480 know that there's this person out there who, you know, 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:16.840 thinks about him every day and and and hopes that 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:19.000 he's well every day, and you know, like I know, 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:22.360 it means something to me to hear that there was 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:25.040 someone out there who was who was wishing me well, 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:26.760 even from a great distance. 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:34.640 After the break, reaching out from a great distance. 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:51.319 I think I can hear you now, Can you hear me? Yeah? 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:52.120 I can hear you? 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:56.440 All right? Hi, here's a clap just in case that's useful. 0:13:56.480 --> 0:13:59.199 Later John had written Nick a letter and Nick was 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:02.200 up for talking. It's the middle of the pandemic, so 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:03.520 a video call is arranged. 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:07.959 I feel nervous, really nervous. I didn't sleep well last night, 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:10.959 and I just boy. 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:15.560 John is seated in his Indianapolis basement and I'm in 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:19.360 my Minneapolis recording closet. We both stare anxiously at our 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:22.160 laptops waiting for Nick to appear on screen. 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:26.520 I mean, I'm excited. I want to talk to him, 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:30.880 you know, It's just I just have no idea how 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:31.440 it's going to go. 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:38.640 You interviewed Obama, did you not? I did, so this 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:41.720 is more nerve racking. Less nerve racking. 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.080 Oh no, this is much more nerve racking. 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:49.720 In a bid to distract John from his nerves, I 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:52.640 regale him with episode recaps of a TV show that 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:56.400 went off the air in two thousand and six, Deadwood. 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:58.400 It was like the scariest town in the world. If 0:14:58.440 --> 0:14:59.920 I lived in the Old West, I would just like 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:03.280 slither on my belly, like just staring at the ground 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:07.080 and apologizing, like just to stay out of trouble, like 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:10.200 no pride. And I'd get a family, teach them to 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:11.840 slither on their bellies and stare at out. 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:12.240 Here we go. 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:19.400 It's in this moment that Nick enters the video call Nick, Hello. 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:20.560 Hi. 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:24.880 Nick is now in his early twenties. He has brown, 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:28.840 tussled hair and big eyes. His face is contemplative, as 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:32.480 he studies John carefully seeing Nick from the shoulders up. 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:34.360 There aren't any scars or burns. 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:37.240 Can I can I start by just asking like, how 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:39.760 how you're doing? Are you? Are you at home right now? 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:46.480 I am school online, finish my undergraduate last year, and 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:50.160 I'm in graduate school. So everything's going well. 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:56.800 Yeah, that's great. Wow. So you're so school's all online? 0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:57.880 What are you studying? 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:01.200 Masters in Business administration at the moment? 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:04.080 Oh that's great, congratulations, thank you. 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:09.000 Unlike John, Nick seems very much at ease. He's calm 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:12.400 and attentive, waiting to see where the conversation will go. 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:17.160 John asks some questions about himself, and Nick answers. He 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:20.720 lives in a small rural town, he's enrolled in Bible College, 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:23.600 and in fact, Nick is a devout Baptist. 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:28.960 I wanted to ask what you thought when you got 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:29.440 the letter. 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:34.480 When I initially got your letter, I called one of 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:38.720 my friends from school and asked who this person was. 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:42.120 So he said, oh, yeah, they made a movie from 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:46.400 a book. He wrote, Well, oh okay, Well after. 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:50.200 Google that, Nick never got around to googling that. So 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:54.080 to Nick, John is a stranger. Well to John, Nick's 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:56.680 a presence he's lived with for the past twenty years. 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:02.880 So I was the chaplain at the hospital that you 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:12.119 came into, and I don't do you remember anything about 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:12.800 that day? 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:19.159 Well, you know, I can remember being burned. Where my 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:21.879 memories of that day start were at the back door 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:26.000 of the garage and my mother's going to the store. 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:28.359 I was going to stay with my father, and my 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:30.199 father was going to clean up some stuff, you know, 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:34.280 burning boxes and trash and other things like that. I 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:37.199 can remember being in the field and the flames and 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:40.600 my father carrying me to the house. I can remember 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:43.719 my father trying to put out the fire and putting 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:47.560 water on me in the garage, and flashes of being 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:51.160 on the helicopter. One of the things that stands out 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:53.800 to me is is a memory of how cold the 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:58.879 scissors were that they cut my clothes off with. The 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:02.639 day I was burned, I was wearing the small lace 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:05.840 up cowboy boots you know that you see at rural supplies. 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:08.879 They are more of a novelty than anything. I remember that, 0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:13.560 But because I had leather shoes on, you know, you 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:17.200 can actually see where the fire stopped melting my leg 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:21.000 right at the line of those boots on my right foot, 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:23.159 and if it hadn't been for those, it would have 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:24.320 been much, much worse. 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:28.280 After the night of the fire, Nick was sent to 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:31.280 recover at a hospital for burn victims, and in the 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:35.919 years afterwards, tissue was always getting infected. Throughout his childhood, 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:38.960 Nick was constantly in and out of the hospital. There 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:42.080 was always the fear that he might not survive. To 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:45.159 this day, Nick's right hand is so stitched together that 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:46.679 there were parts of it he can't feel. 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:50.159 It is what it is this point, This is. 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:53.320 Nick's refrain when talking about the fire and its effect. 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:54.560 It is what it is. 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:56.159 Are you still in pain? 0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:02.480 It's one of those things where anybody else would probably 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:05.960 say yes, And I don't mean to sound that way. 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:10.200 They've never been burned. They don't understand what that constant 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:16.119 background noise of pain is like. But at a certain 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:19.840 point you just ignore it or it's just a constant 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:28.960 so it's normal. It is what it is. I would 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:31.879 definitely like to not have been burned and to not 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:35.720 deal with the daily things that come with that, but 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:38.679 it brought my family to Christ in a way that 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:40.240 it would not have otherwise. 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:45.960 It was only after the accident that a friend invited 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:50.240 Nick's family to a local church. They began attending with regularity. 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:54.880 Before that, they've been Christian in name only. So to Nick, 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:57.359 the fire brought him to the most important thing in 0:19:57.400 --> 0:20:04.080 his life. It brought him to God. Because of that 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:07.040 day in the er, Nick and his family's faith was 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:10.200 made stronger. Well, John's was made weaker. 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:13.000 One of the things I wanted to ask you is 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:18.439 how you knowing that terrible things can happen to kids, 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:22.040 to innocent kids, having experienced that yourself, how you how 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:24.520 you square that with your faith? 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:30.320 It took quite a long time for me to reconcile 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:35.600 that with God, and I spent a while quite angry. 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:39.560 I guess the way I look at it, it was 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:45.680 a harsh mercy. Theologically speaking, for those who love God, 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:50.479 everything is supposed to work for their good, and if 0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:54.720 you look at it in that light, the world definitely 0:20:54.800 --> 0:21:00.760 makes more sense. The Lord does allow some evil, but 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:03.120 in the end, the evil works for. 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:06.280 Good, and Nixy's a lot of good in his life. 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:09.239 He's grateful for his parents, who stood by him all 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:13.560 throughout his recovery, his grandfather, who tirelessly combed through stores 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:17.200 searching for a lotion that might offer relief, the teachers 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:19.360 who helped him in and out of his pressure garments. 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:22.440 You know, the Lord put certain people in my life 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:27.119 for a reason. I grew up in public schools, and yeah, 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:30.920 there were some people there that didn't quite understand why 0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:34.280 I looked the way I looked. But the community did 0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:38.160 everything they could to educate the kids around me as 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:41.600 to why I had scar tissue, why I had plastic 0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:42.399 face mask on. 0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:50.160 I think that it's so easy to be merely angry 0:21:50.760 --> 0:21:54.600 after that, And I think I might be merely angry, 0:21:55.680 --> 0:21:58.440 to be honest, I might be merely angry if it 0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:00.560 happened to my kid. I might be mere angry if 0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:01.199 it happened to me. 0:22:04.000 --> 0:22:08.879 You know. It's just, you know, the Devil's always trying 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:12.520 to tempt you and draw you astray, and and I 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:16.280 think that's one of the things he uses against me, is, oh, 0:22:16.280 --> 0:22:19.399 how could this happen to you? You know, why would 0:22:20.119 --> 0:22:24.399 such a merciful and loving god let this happen to you? 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:25.679 You know? And if you look at it like that, 0:22:26.680 --> 0:22:28.000 then you know the Devil's won. 0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:37.560 You know, I don't. I don't usually think about it 0:22:37.600 --> 0:22:41.080 in in uh terms of good and evil really, but 0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:45.680 a lot of life is a battle against despair because 0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:53.040 I have serious mental health problems. Nick despair, nihilism, hopelessness, 0:22:53.480 --> 0:22:58.920 there forms of this this why that my brain sometimes 0:22:58.920 --> 0:23:03.959 tries to tell me about out being a person, being alive, consciousness, 0:23:05.680 --> 0:23:09.840 that it's all empty, it's all meaningless, and I have 0:23:09.920 --> 0:23:16.880 to find ways of holding on to hope. 0:23:16.280 --> 0:23:21.120 Good the sadness and the you know, the desperation about it. 0:23:21.720 --> 0:23:25.280 I don't know that that'll ever go away entirely. I 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:29.600 struggle with, you know, feeling down sometimes. But then again, 0:23:30.240 --> 0:23:34.760 I don't want to be that lonely person sequestered in 0:23:34.800 --> 0:23:36.960 a house somewhere. So you know, I'm going to move 0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:39.000 on and I'm going to just be the person I 0:23:39.040 --> 0:23:39.399 want to be. 0:23:41.920 --> 0:23:44.320 So an answer to John's question, has it been a 0:23:44.359 --> 0:23:48.760 good life, the answer is yes, because Nick is determined 0:23:48.760 --> 0:23:49.400 to make it one. 0:24:01.800 --> 0:24:05.920 From what the doctor said, I thought, I thought that 0:24:05.920 --> 0:24:14.439 that you were likely to die, and h most of 0:24:14.480 --> 0:24:18.000 the last you know, eighteen years, I thought that I 0:24:18.040 --> 0:24:24.760 thought that you had died, and and and so I would, 0:24:24.840 --> 0:24:28.199 I would. I would pray for you every night and 0:24:28.240 --> 0:24:34.160 for your family, and I wanted to get I wanted 0:24:34.160 --> 0:24:35.760 to get in touch with you. If I could to 0:24:35.880 --> 0:24:39.439 say that I think of you often and I and 0:24:39.480 --> 0:24:41.760 I hope that's okay. I hope it's I hope it's 0:24:41.800 --> 0:24:44.600 okay that I pray for you and your family. If 0:24:44.640 --> 0:24:46.680 it's not, I'll stop. 0:24:47.160 --> 0:24:50.000 You know, I'm just I'm glad that somebody was always 0:24:50.119 --> 0:24:54.800 praying for me. Is there Definitely, We're definitely times where 0:24:54.800 --> 0:24:55.719 it was necessary. 0:24:57.480 --> 0:25:01.560 Without doubt, Nick is grateful for John's prayer, but overall, 0:25:01.760 --> 0:25:04.920 I get the feeling that some things, some crucial things, 0:25:05.200 --> 0:25:08.520 are in place in Nick's life. His family is close knit, 0:25:09.119 --> 0:25:12.760 his life has purpose, He's secure in his faith, but 0:25:12.800 --> 0:25:16.320 he can tell John is struggling. To him, John's not 0:25:16.359 --> 0:25:19.520 this famous writer, but someone who came to him heavy hearted. 0:25:20.280 --> 0:25:23.240 So as to John's prayers, Nick points out someone else 0:25:23.280 --> 0:25:24.640 who might have benefited from them. 0:25:25.840 --> 0:25:30.760 John praying for me, I really hope that's helped keep 0:25:30.800 --> 0:25:34.000 the dialogue between you and the Lord fluid and going. 0:25:36.760 --> 0:25:41.000 You know, I never thought of it that way, Nick, 0:25:41.359 --> 0:25:51.040 But it is true that on the days when I 0:25:51.080 --> 0:25:56.919 prayed for nothing else and felt no real meaning in prayer, 0:25:58.200 --> 0:26:02.800 that I still prayed for you and for your family, 0:26:02.840 --> 0:26:05.200 and that that was a point of connection. 0:26:07.240 --> 0:26:09.560 At a time when religion stopped making sense to John, 0:26:10.000 --> 0:26:12.080 at a time when he felt like he couldn't reasonably 0:26:12.119 --> 0:26:15.320 pray for himself or his family, he still hungered for 0:26:15.359 --> 0:26:19.760 something that went beyond reason, And in those moments there 0:26:19.840 --> 0:26:29.480 was Nick. As we near the end of the call, 0:26:29.920 --> 0:26:33.080 that moment when hands would be shaken or hugs exchanged, 0:26:33.560 --> 0:26:35.919 John and Nick instead stare at each other through their 0:26:35.960 --> 0:26:36.840 computer screens. 0:26:38.840 --> 0:26:42.639 It's definitely remarkable to see, you know, an individual that 0:26:42.680 --> 0:26:46.560 came into my life at such a dramatic event and 0:26:46.600 --> 0:26:49.119 for such a short amount of time, and to have 0:26:49.200 --> 0:26:52.120 made such an impact in this I can definitely see 0:26:52.160 --> 0:26:52.840 the Lord working. 0:26:54.600 --> 0:26:58.800 Part of what's wild is that you, you know, you 0:26:58.800 --> 0:27:01.000 don't look like you did when you are three years 0:27:01.040 --> 0:27:04.959