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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha.

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Speaker 2: I'm welcome to Steff. I never told you prediction by

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Speaker 2: her idio.

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Speaker 1: And Okay, first let me say immediately before we start

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Speaker 1: this Monday Mini, this is not an attack on fans

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Speaker 1: and fandom.

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Speaker 2: Okay an, okay, okay, all right, okay, all right.

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Speaker 1: So we are obviously talking about fans, fandoms and obsessions,

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Speaker 1: and I know we've talked a lot about fandoms, and

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Speaker 1: I think it's important to kind of continue this conversation

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Speaker 1: because you're about to hear our episode of cap Pop

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Speaker 1: Demon Hunter, which I kind of will bring up a

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Speaker 1: second about the fandom in general and why this may

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Speaker 1: be as big as it is. But yes, so I

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Speaker 1: am specifically talking more about what is happening in the

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Speaker 1: K pop world and kind of it's correlation with fandoms,

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Speaker 1: which we've talked about in our k Pop episode. We've

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Speaker 1: talked about fandoms, we talked about in stands, so we

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Speaker 1: definitely talked about it, but I thought we'd come back

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Speaker 1: and revisit and just and just kind of as a

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Speaker 1: reminder of like, hey, cap pop people are people. Fandoms

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Speaker 1: need is great, but also there can be an unhealthy level,

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Speaker 1: So we just kind of wanted to come into that.

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Speaker 1: So for context, there was actually a fairly recent social

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Speaker 1: media video of a girl or a fan using a

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Speaker 1: voiceover of a kpop group like they're doing a sound check.

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Speaker 1: You get early access, you pay a lot of money

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Speaker 1: for some of these things and fan interactions, and it's

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Speaker 1: that voice if you know, you know the TikTok video

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Speaker 1: like Ladies, Ladies, I'm just trying to get my job done.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like go through the shift kind of

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Speaker 1: day type of it's really funny, like it's just like

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Speaker 1: essentially like girls fanning over this. He's pretending like someone's

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Speaker 1: fanning over him and be like ladies, ladies, and so

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Speaker 1: into a video. Very cute, moving on, and somehow that

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Speaker 1: turned into another fan saying that her moment was stolen

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Speaker 1: by this video and that they were having they being

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Speaker 1: the fan and the pop star having a private moment

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Speaker 1: in front of a large crowd, and that the video

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Speaker 1: shouldn't be used because or at least like the video

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Speaker 1: is somewhat stolen somehow because it was for a moment

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Speaker 1: for her alone, her and him, and for them alone.

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Speaker 1: It was for nobody else and y'all did. She was

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Speaker 1: very possessive, like y'all needed this is cute. Literally, she

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Speaker 1: starts with I don't like how cute this video is

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Speaker 1: and all but and that's how she starts to the

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Speaker 1: point that everybody thought it was originally satire, like you know,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of like, this is my husband, this

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Speaker 1: is whatever, whatnot cool? Everybody understood that, but it wasn't satire.

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Speaker 1: She legitimately was upset and was arguing with many a fans,

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Speaker 1: many of other people being like hey, someone was so confused,

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Speaker 1: was like, are you insinuating that she stole your video?

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Speaker 1: Because that is a problem. Content stealing is pretty big

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Speaker 1: and a huge thing. And she said yes, but they're like, wait,

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Speaker 1: so that was your video. She's like, no, but that

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Speaker 1: should have been a video just for me. So it

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Speaker 1: was very confusing and everybody was like wait, and of

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Speaker 1: course the internet was concerned, and a lot of backlash happened.

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Speaker 1: It stretched from her being accusing her of being obsessive

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Speaker 1: to stalking to being like a K pop person, you

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Speaker 1: might want to be careful because she's also talked about

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Speaker 1: how she was going to be at the next show

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Speaker 1: and the next show, which a lot of people do

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Speaker 1: travel and go see the shows. We'll see more than

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Speaker 1: one show. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm sure the

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Speaker 1: groups are really excited you're doing that. Please buy their tickets,

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Speaker 1: they say. But it also ranged to the void, like

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Speaker 1: it kind of became ageist a little bit too, where

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Speaker 1: they were like, hey, you're in your late thirties, you

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Speaker 1: need to grow up. And again, it's not the same thing,

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Speaker 1: but it does kind of like, well, yeah, it feels

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Speaker 1: like you're too old for this specific behavior, which is

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Speaker 1: both a just but at the same time valid. And

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Speaker 1: also she's married, so everybody was like, you really think

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Speaker 1: you're having an emotional connection, maybe a sexual connections, some

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Speaker 1: kind of a bond here that you're willing to that.

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Speaker 1: I don't think she's necessarily trying to sacrifice her marriage,

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Speaker 1: but she's not. She doesn't care that this is happening

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Speaker 1: on top of it. Like if this was a real interaction,

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Speaker 1: let's say with your coworker, where you are having moments

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Speaker 1: that would be really really concerned, and you believe that

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Speaker 1: there were moments that's concerning for a relationship unless you

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Speaker 1: have an agreement, which maybe they have and consent is great,

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Speaker 1: So there was a lot of thoughts, a lot a

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Speaker 1: lot of thoughts, and again, I'm not gonna lie, it

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Speaker 1: does feel concerning. I was kind of I'm sarcastic, I

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Speaker 1: am all the things that you would think, but it

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Speaker 1: did put me on the level like is she okay?

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Speaker 1: Is there something happening that maybe there's this underlying thing

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Speaker 1: that we need to talk about, and yes, go again,

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Speaker 1: go back to our k pop episodes and fandom. But

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Speaker 1: we have talked about an interesting level of ownership that

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Speaker 1: fans often have, especially in the K pop world, like

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Speaker 1: the layers of the fact that if a K pop

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Speaker 1: stars date someone, they leave reaths, funeral reaths in front

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Speaker 1: of their companies to tell them you are dead to

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Speaker 1: me and that they need to leave the company. A

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Speaker 1: young woman was came out late twenties, by the way,

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Speaker 1: mid late twenties came out about dating a star who

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Speaker 1: was also beloved in South Korea. People were mad and

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Speaker 1: they're like, are we not good enough for you? People

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Speaker 1: being the fans, people that she has never met, she

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Speaker 1: will never meet, that she will never have full relationships with.

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Speaker 1: So it was kind of like, wow, okay. And again

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Speaker 1: the antis aa say songs which we've talked about before.

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Speaker 1: Also came from kind of like cake pop terminology and

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Speaker 1: why they arose the fact because of the level of

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Speaker 1: intensity of both love and hate for these groups, so

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Speaker 1: it sounded like this larger level, and again specific to

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Speaker 1: the k pop world, writers talk talk about the harmful

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Speaker 1: parasocial relationships, saying, well, specifically this, so here's one. This

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Speaker 1: is from a Medium article by Evanna who was a

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Speaker 1: guest writer, titled the Harmful Consumerism and Unhealthy parasocial Relationships

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Speaker 1: within the K pop community. And when we're talking about

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Speaker 1: the kapop consumerism, there was a whole thing where they

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Speaker 1: would buy records upon records and just throw away the

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Speaker 1: records to get cards. So everybody's like, oh, that is

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Speaker 1: so wasteful. Yeah yeah, because they had already had one,

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Speaker 1: so they're just like, we don't want this, we want

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Speaker 1: the cards. So and the fact they was littering all

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Speaker 1: of like South Korean streets and people were like, this

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Speaker 1: is really concerning and concerning like on the level of environmentally,

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Speaker 1: so y'all need to think about this anyway. But on

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Speaker 1: top of that, the parasocial relationships, this is what they

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Speaker 1: write individuals not being able to make connections with people

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Speaker 1: actively present in their lives can lead them into worse

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Speaker 1: depression and complex emotions. They thought they were fixing with

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Speaker 1: this peril social relationships with the world after the COVID

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Speaker 1: nineteen going through a loneliness epidemic and young people age

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Speaker 1: fifteen to twenty five now having seventy percent less social

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Speaker 1: interactions with their friends and individual leaving a musical genre

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Speaker 1: as her own only means of coping will become damaging

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Speaker 1: in the future. So there's all these like statistics and

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Speaker 1: research that she is using in this context as well.

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Speaker 1: But the fact that this really grew open to the

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Speaker 1: point that people have isolated themselves. Young fans have isolated themselves.

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Speaker 1: Is one thing to have a fan base and to

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Speaker 1: love and be a part of a fan base. We've

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Speaker 1: seen how that can grow communities, which is amazing, but

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Speaker 1: we've also seen the level of things like this where

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Speaker 1: this woman kind of isolated herself because she is attacking

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Speaker 1: other fans for stealing her moment and she became a punchline.

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Speaker 1: So I wonder how damaging that will be for her.

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Speaker 1: But and if at any point if he this actual

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Speaker 1: k pops are word to address her specifically and like

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Speaker 1: crush her dreams. What does that do for her? That's

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Speaker 1: kind of breakup. It is a breakup because she truly believed,

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Speaker 1: if she truly believes, and I'm still gonna hang on

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Speaker 1: to a small glimmer of hope that she's just in

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Speaker 1: it for the views a little bit, a little bit,

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Speaker 1: but like, if this is true to her, that type

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Speaker 1: of breakup can be really really damaging. I could only imagine.

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Speaker 1: Because there's also a heartbreak when you love something so much.

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Speaker 1: And we've talked about this in the Harry Potter episode

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Speaker 1: because of j K Rowling and her horrifying inhumane responses

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Speaker 1: to the trans community and queer community, what it feels

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Speaker 1: like to be sabotaged when you love something so purely.

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Speaker 1: And this is kind of that same level. Like this

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Speaker 1: can be really really detrimental, and it could be harmful

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Speaker 1: to your relationships. Like if you have built relationships and

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Speaker 1: you have this kind of like breakup and it becomes

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Speaker 1: a point of concern, what happens to those real friendships

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Speaker 1: that you thought this was the tie for you. And

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Speaker 1: then with the Korean standards of beauty, which often have

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Speaker 1: led to bullying, psychological damage, and overall toxic behavior. The

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Speaker 1: idea of perfection in these plandems can be pretty toxic

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Speaker 1: in itself. So this was from another article from scottscoop

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Speaker 1: dot com which is talking about teenagers and the idolization

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Speaker 1: of the celebrities, and they say, while any person can

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Speaker 1: view the lives of a celebrity distorted by social media,

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Speaker 1: many teenagers easily find themselves falling into the rabbit hole

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Speaker 1: of obsession. They can stemble upon a false sense of

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Speaker 1: perfection as they come through the edited lives of celebrities,

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Speaker 1: creating a mania that can only be highly destructive and

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Speaker 1: hard to break out of. So I'm specifically thinking again

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Speaker 1: he was addressing like things like swifties and talking about

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Speaker 1: her was seemingly perfect life at times, where you you know,

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Speaker 1: have those beautiful relationships and she travels and you know,

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Speaker 1: the perfect games, all her friends having fun. That's one thing.

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Speaker 1: But the level that we have with K pop stars

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Speaker 1: is different in that they have been cultivated from fairly

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Speaker 1: young age. I think they start like ten to eleven.

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Speaker 1: They can as young as ten and eleven, even younger,

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Speaker 1: going to camps, getting plastic surgery go ahead and being

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Speaker 1: told you can eat certain amount of things like they

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Speaker 1: are cultivated and if they don't make it, which only

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Speaker 1: a small percentage, do they owe all of this money

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Speaker 1: back to these companies. It feels like a racket, and

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Speaker 1: I feel like we need to talk about this a

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Speaker 1: little more. We have talked a little bit about K

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Speaker 1: pop culture, but I feel like we need to investigate

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Speaker 1: them as a really bad capitalistic corporation that prays upon

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Speaker 1: young kids trying to be famous. But that's a whole

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Speaker 1: different issue. But with that, we know they use this

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Speaker 1: in order to entice young people to come into these fandoms,

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Speaker 1: but not only to be in fandoms, dream that they

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Speaker 1: could be a part of these types of groups as well.

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Speaker 1: So if there's so many dangerous things onto that. And again,

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Speaker 1: their personalities are cultivated by their companies, and so oftentimes

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Speaker 1: that's not even who they are, which I hate to

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Speaker 1: say out loud. So in that same article, they go

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Speaker 1: back and talking about specific agendas and different studies, and

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Speaker 1: they say in the studies, some of the most common

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Speaker 1: negative impacts included psychological harms such as jealousy, loneliness, anxiety,

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Speaker 1: and reducing self esteem, as well as things like exposure

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Speaker 1: to malicious software and fishing risks, which actually we haven't

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Speaker 1: talked enough about that, because that's actually true. The amount

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Speaker 1: of scams.

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Speaker 2: Of like you can meet this yes, but person.

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Speaker 1: But also have you seen the ones who be like, hey,

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Speaker 1: this is a I've seen one of us, like this

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Speaker 1: is the weekend, I need you to send me one

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Speaker 1: hundred dollars.

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Speaker 2: Oh really yeses.

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Speaker 1: But there was also we just recently that I saw

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Speaker 1: not a K pop star, but just the celebrity from

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Speaker 1: the New Girls, the dude who placed Nick saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: it was so good to meet you last night. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for hanging us out with us, And

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Speaker 1: she was like a twenty he said. She said that

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Speaker 1: she was twenty and giving us all this good advice.

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Speaker 1: And he was like, wait, don't I don't. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what you're talking about. I don't know you. I

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Speaker 1: don't live there. I wasn't there. I'm over here. She's like, no, no,

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Speaker 1: this is us, and she sends a picture this dude

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Speaker 1: pretended to beat him and he's like, hey, if he's

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Speaker 1: trying to get with you, he's lying to you and

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Speaker 1: he's baiting you. And you're also really young. I am

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Speaker 1: he's forty five, he's like, there's no need for someone

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Speaker 1: forty five talking to a twenty year old like he

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Speaker 1: was really concerned.

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Speaker 2: That's fair. I would hate for my name to be

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Speaker 2: used in some kind of scheme like.

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Speaker 1: Right, which happens a lot more than you think, for

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Speaker 1: people fishing out there to get these types of young

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Speaker 1: girls thinking that they won. And we also know that.

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Speaker 1: And I want to talk about a little more about

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Speaker 1: like celebrities actually doing these things themselves become predators. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but again they go on to talk about how teenage

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Speaker 1: obsession would seemingly flawless celebrities can only heighten these feelings

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Speaker 1: as users idolized and surround themselves with their curated images

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Speaker 1: of lavish lifestyles, perfect skin, glowing hair, and beautiful bodies. Again,

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Speaker 1: should be reminded that this isn't just for teens, okay.

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Speaker 1: With weight loss drugs and more and weight loss trends

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Speaker 1: as well as anti aging narratives, the older generations are

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Speaker 1: also having to battle the idea of looking younger or

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Speaker 1: at least not as old as you are, which I

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Speaker 1: fallen trap. Of the amount of Korean products that I bought.

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Speaker 1: It's not a lot, but I've definitely spent money Anyway,

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Speaker 1: moving on, of course, we need to talk about the

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Speaker 1: access of social media and how that plays into it

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Speaker 1: as well. The article goes on saying this, because the

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Speaker 1: online world idolizes celebrities so much, they seem to become

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Speaker 1: untouchable everyday citizens are often not knowledgeable about the boundaries

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Speaker 1: they need to set between themselves and an icon. This

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Speaker 1: can be seen in critiquing a celebrity's body, relationship, art, behavior,

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Speaker 1: or persona. Many fail to understand the ramifications of these

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Speaker 1: types of criticisms, so it kind of goes bigger into

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Speaker 1: that conversation. And so when you're using the fandoms to escape,

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Speaker 1: which is not a bad thing, it can be healthy.

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Speaker 1: There's also a chance that dependency can become problematic. So

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Speaker 1: from a substance media article, they write at times many

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Speaker 1: people have become absolutely dependent on these artists for happiness

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Speaker 1: to the point where it affects their sense of morality

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Speaker 1: or ability to comfort themselves both mentally and physically. People

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Speaker 1: will also go to links of sending death threats and

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Speaker 1: docs and people on behalf of these public figures harming

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Speaker 1: other people on the internet in the long run, And

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Speaker 1: we've talked about this again in the K pop as

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Speaker 1: well as we talked about this in the stands. I

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Speaker 1: believe in general how racism has become rampant in this area,

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Speaker 1: and like if a black fan comes in, they will

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Speaker 1: often be attacked. They will often be told they're not

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Speaker 1: welcome there. They will often be told that the level

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Speaker 1: of microaggression that's happening is not there. If someone were

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Speaker 1: to speak up as say that feels like cultural appropriation,

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Speaker 1: they will be immediately attacked, immediately blacklisted until they're being

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Speaker 1: too sensitive, which is getting worse by the way, this

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Speaker 1: whole level of I can do that you're being too sensitive.

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Speaker 1: It's all about race, like I hate it here. And

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Speaker 1: of course there are the moments when the celebrities break

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Speaker 1: your heart. There are current issues with BTS specifically and

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Speaker 1: the fact that a couple of the members have sponsored

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Speaker 1: things that seem pro zionis and they're really concerned and

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Speaker 1: disappointed by that. Possible questions of queer baiting, which any

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Speaker 1: I know, we've talked about queer bating, and we usually

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Speaker 1: typically talk about that as like fictional characters or all that,

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Speaker 1: but is that a thing in live bands? Like there

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Speaker 1: was a moment where someone came out being by and

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Speaker 1: people accuse them of queer baiting, and the question was,

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Speaker 1: but if they're by, how are they're queer baiting? They're queer,

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Speaker 1: that's not a thing, versus when you do have like

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Speaker 1: one we talked about Mama Move being a big K

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Speaker 1: pop group and one specific artists who loves dancing on women,

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Speaker 1: but it's obviously in a relationship with a man and

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Speaker 1: she's never come out, not that she has to because

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Speaker 1: it's not a thing. But at the same time, is

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Speaker 1: that a form of quibit because she knows she has

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Speaker 1: a stronger fan base with the women. What are your.

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Speaker 2: Thoughts, Oh, it's complicated. I do think in those examples specifically,

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Speaker 2: there are biratures still pretty real, and that's kind of

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Speaker 2: hard to don't. I don't know. It's not for me

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Speaker 2: to say, like, just because a woman is dating a

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Speaker 2: man doesn't mean she's not queer. But there there's definitely

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Speaker 2: been instances where I have known, not necessarily with bands,

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Speaker 2: but with actors where they know it's usually men, and

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Speaker 2: the ones I'm thinking of, they know that their fan

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Speaker 2: base has a lot of usually women, who are like

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Speaker 2: slashing them together, and they'll play into it. But usually

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Speaker 2: kind of like like it's fun, but you can almost

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Speaker 2: pick up the undercurrent of derision.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, and that's that's a big level of conversation

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Speaker 1: of Like, also there was a conversation and like this

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Speaker 1: person shouldn't represent a queer person or this person shouldn't

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Speaker 1: do that because they're not out. And then they're like,

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Speaker 1: why do you have why do you have to out

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Speaker 1: someone in order for this to be a thing? So

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Speaker 1: like there's so many levels to that that I have questions,

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Speaker 1: But you know, that is also heartbreaking. It is heartbreaking

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Speaker 1: when you see K pop stars who are in an

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Speaker 1: area where like bl Boy Love we talked about that

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Speaker 1: and O K drama stuff and stuff like that, and

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Speaker 1: then they're outright homophobic. That is a bit of a pill.

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Speaker 1: And I've seen that happen quite often in the K

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Speaker 1: pop industry. And then again we talked about the racism thing.

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Speaker 1: It's getting worse. There's a group that was formed recently

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Speaker 1: with some of the bigger dancer stars and like I

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Speaker 1: have followed a couple of these dancers in the US.

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Speaker 1: Bailey Sucks one of her names, and she was dancing

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Speaker 1: since the age of like five four. I don't know

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Speaker 1: young and I have watched her in the in she's

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Speaker 1: been a part of the California studios. She's been amazing,

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Speaker 1: and now she's a part of a K pop coup

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Speaker 1: called All Day I believe. However, within that, obviously she's

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Speaker 1: from the US, from California, so or another members. They

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Speaker 1: have a guy in there named who calls himself Tarzan

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Speaker 1: and loves the hell out of some cornrows and all

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Speaker 1: of the braids that are not and everybody's like, what

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Speaker 1: are you doing? And apparently just said the N word

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Speaker 1: for no reason allowed. That was an ad lib, like

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Speaker 1: it wasn't a part of song, which still, why would

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Speaker 1: it be? That was odd. Some of the fans don't

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Speaker 1: seem to have a problem and they think this is okay,

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Speaker 1: and the fact that this is a newly formed group

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Speaker 1: as in like the last couple of months, this is concerning.

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Speaker 1: And the fact that this is being disregarded by not

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Speaker 1: only the K pop community but also the actual industry

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Speaker 1: and being okay with it, that's really concerning. So stuff

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Speaker 1: like that is heartbreaking to see, and that's when you

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Speaker 1: lose all respect and you lose something that you loved

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Speaker 1: and it probably invested a lot of money.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah. After we did that Harry Potter episode,

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Speaker 2: I was looking at all my Yeah, I don't know

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Speaker 2: what to do with it because I don't want to

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Speaker 2: like I don't want it a round, but I don't

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Speaker 2: want to waste.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, like it's too late, like you, I feel

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Speaker 1: like I'm already.

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Speaker 2: I've heard the money is. So it's like I just

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Speaker 2: pack it up in a box and put it away.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they're talking about a group. Babe, one of my

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Speaker 1: favorite UH Korean pop stars who was actually in acting

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Speaker 1: now she's adorable as hell. Uh talked about the fact

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Speaker 1: that her light sticks or sixty dollars piece of plastic

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Speaker 1: with a little bit of a light bulb and there

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Speaker 1: was sixty dollars.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine spending that anyway? It's an investment. But again,

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Speaker 1: so with all of that, yes, and there's also, as

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Speaker 1: we mentioned before, celebrities who are actual predators and seemingly untouchable. Actually,

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Speaker 1: several of the squid games who have gotten huge, including

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Speaker 1: one of the dudes who was in K Pop Demon Hunter,

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Speaker 1: which I realized later was accused of sexual assault or

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Speaker 1: sexual harassment at the very least. So there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of things that you're like, that's really that's appointing. How

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Speaker 1: do I love something when there's so many like that's

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Speaker 1: a portion to this that I hate. Ah, But I

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Speaker 1: would be remiss if we did not jump into the

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Speaker 1: fact that there are in our episodes on fangirls, there

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Speaker 1: is also a conversation where this is also kind of

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Speaker 1: a steeped and misogyny when we talk about the obsession

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Speaker 1: and I'm putting that in quotes and about being healthy. Now,

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Speaker 1: I think there is a middle ground to everything. I

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Speaker 1: am all about balance. I am a libra to the core,

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Speaker 1: so I think there has to be a healthy balance.

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Speaker 1: But with that, yes, there is also their misogynistic take

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Speaker 1: on fangirls, and we cannot ignore that either. This is

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Speaker 1: from a twenty twenty three article written by Alisha Lansam,

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Speaker 1: and she says this, this pattern of being penalized for

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Speaker 1: being a girl with emotions is something I find uncomfortably familiar.

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Speaker 1: At the height of the twenty tens, my dedication to

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Speaker 1: Justin Bieber, one of the best selling artists in music history,

394
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Speaker 1: was regularly joked about at school. My commitment to being

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Speaker 1: a believer was seen as delusional at worst, and uncool

396
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Speaker 1: at best. Even the media called us out for our

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Speaker 1: beaber fever, with articles at the time stating that research

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Speaker 1: into the made up condition showed it to be more

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Speaker 1: infectious than measles. The symptoms, they said included poor life choices,

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Speaker 1: uncontrollable crying, and screaming symptoms of illness. Like Benny, I

401
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Speaker 1: brushed off the label as funny, but it was hard

402
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Speaker 1: not to internalize the idea of being perceived as ridiculous

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Speaker 1: on the world stage. While I was laughed at for

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Speaker 1: knowing my face's birthday and the words to all his songs,

405
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Speaker 1: my guy friends could discuss every injury their favorite football

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Speaker 1: player had ever had and be thought of as well informed.

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Speaker 1: As I ripped posters of Bieber out of magazines, it

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Speaker 1: was common to see neighboring articles using words like mad, stalker,

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Speaker 1: and scary. The sentiment was loud and clear. When girls

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Speaker 1: know a lot about something they love, they're crazy. When

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Speaker 1: boys do, they're passionate. Which, yeah, we've talked about that previously.

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Speaker 1: We've talked about that before. That just because it's a

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Speaker 1: girl liking something does not diminish the fact that they

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Speaker 1: are important, that something has happened, and that they are,

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Speaker 1: these girls are powerful, they are her power machines, or

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Speaker 1: these fans are and a little bit more from a

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Speaker 1: different article they write this. Professor Sarah bannitt Weiser, co

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Speaker 1: author of Believability, Sexual Violence, Media, and the Politics of Doubt,

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Speaker 1: believes this characterization of fangirls as potentially fanatical is unfairly

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Speaker 1: connected to the scritiny of women in general. As far

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Speaker 1: as I know, most of the cases of fans stalking

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Speaker 1: and being violent against celebrities are men, she tells Refinary

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Speaker 1: twenty nine. General findings show that stalkers are more often

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Speaker 1: SISCE men than women. The idea that women fans are

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Speaker 1: unstable is a real issue, as it connects to women

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Speaker 1: being seen as irrational. She explains, So, even though I

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Speaker 1: did start off with a very example of the first

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Speaker 1: woman again and in the perception of like she might

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Speaker 1: be a little too much at this point attacking other fans,

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Speaker 1: we know that it's not typically women who are causing harm.

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00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and you know, interestingly, you can go see

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00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:18,640
Speaker 2: the feminist movie Friday we did on Turning Red where

433
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 2: we talked about this. But there's also a lot more

434
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,439
Speaker 2: to be said about women not having safe spaces to

435
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,920
Speaker 2: express sexuality in our society. And so when you get

436
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 2: in a lot of cases anyway, when you have this

437
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:38,919
Speaker 2: crush on a celebrity and you're screaming and you know

438
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 2: their birthday and all of that, a lot of times

439
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,679
Speaker 2: it's because you don't feel safe doing that with real

440
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 2: person in your life, or you might be judged for it,

441
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 2: or Shane Fort in a clearly you're still being judged

442
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:55,160
Speaker 2: in Shane Fort can't win. But people will call you out.

443
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:58,919
Speaker 2: You're real, You're irl.

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00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,640
Speaker 1: Colleagues, we'll be like and yeah, and again this kind

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00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 1: of goes back to the happy hour that I talked

446
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 1: about and like enjoying things like that I wish I

447
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 1: could have done as a child, but I couldn't because

448
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 1: I couldn't be a child. And now growing up, now

449
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 1: finding a moment be like I actually really enjoyed this,

450
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,239
Speaker 1: and I want to love it and I want to

451
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,160
Speaker 1: dedicate to it. Like there's this difference of like trying

452
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 1: to find the balance once again. But yeah, is ever

453
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 1: growing too, the fandoms are with social media, I really

454
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:30,639
Speaker 1: connected all over the world.

455
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I was going to say, because I

456
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 2: also have an episode on Phantom coming up, it's our

457
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 2: big Fantom month. But I really think that the Internet

458
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 2: and social media has changed and continues to change this

459
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,120
Speaker 2: conversation because even though that existed when I was young,

460
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,439
Speaker 2: when Justin Bieber and the Believers were around, it's just

461
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 2: gotten more and more. And I really think that access

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00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 2: and going back to a recent conversation we had about

463
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 2: you know, it's not everyone who is like this, but

464
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 2: some people online take up so much space that they

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00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:14,679
Speaker 2: make you feel like, is everyone like this? Plenty of

466
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 2: people they can be very fanish about something but also

467
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,920
Speaker 2: not harrassed people, right, but people still, I mean, that's

468
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 2: a real problem. And yeah, we'll talk about it a

469
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 2: little bit more in my coming up one. But that

470
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,439
Speaker 2: whole idea of if people are online you can just

471
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 2: say anything right now, there's still still people exactly no need,

472
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 2: no need, no need. Well, gosh, we've got so many,

473
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 2: so many avenues we could go down with that. But

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00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 2: in the meantime, listeners, if you have any thoughts about

475
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 2: this or anything you would like for us to explore

476
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 2: around this, please let us know. You can emails at Hello,

477
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 2: at stuff onever told you dot com. You can find

478
00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 2: us some pou skuyt mop Stuff podcast or on Instagram

479
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 2: and TikTok at stuff When Never Told You for us

480
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 2: on YouTube and we have a book you can get

481
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 2: where you get your books. Thanks as always start a

482
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,439
Speaker 2: super produced Christine, are excited to producer my Inner contributor Joey,

483
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 2: Thank you and thanks to you for listening stuff will

484
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 2: Never Told You to production of My Heart Radio. For

485
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 2: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can check out

486
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 2: the heart Radio app Apple Podcasts wherever you listen to

487
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 2: your favorite shows