WEBVTT - Matthew 18 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:03.800 Previously on the missionary. I would assume that this is 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:08.680 a health facility with the trained health workers. My job 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:11.840 there was to show people the character in the nature 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.840 of Christ by just like acting out of love and 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:18.680 kindness and being so compassionate. Seeing how the community reacted 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:22.240 left a really bad taste in my mouth, and I 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:24.840 just was constantly asking myself every day, if this is 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:27.800 how Christians are supposed to act and treat one another. 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:29.800 There's no one I would say, but please, I want 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:33.319 to see your papas, but please waise your certificate displayed here. 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:46.839 There was no way I would ask that. Mal nutrition 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:50.320 season in Uganda is really like May through September because 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:52.360 of the rainy season in the way that the harvests 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:55.200 flow there, And so we had kind of geared up 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:57.840 for pretty high numbers in the summer. And yeah, we 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:00.320 had a lot of people that were just coming. We 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:02.960 had over twenty children because that is the time the 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:07.200 facility was overwhelmed. We had very many. It was above 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:11.000 the capacity. But then the morning came when a government 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:14.600 vehicle pulled up to the gate of serving his children unannounced. 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:20.360 It was March twelve. It was around eight I started 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:23.160 due to as you. So at ten we used to 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:26.160 take the vitals of these children. The babies would go 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:30.000 to sleep. I was sitting there after taking my vitals 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:33.200 and so the vehicle for the d H. When they 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:34.960 came the d H or they came in the car, 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:38.640 the guard opened the gates. I just saw some officials 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:42.240 coming out of the vehicle and welcome to him or 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:46.240 what you've been doing. You're killing children here this and 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:50.160 you're just for educating in the communities. Why are you 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:53.880 treating children? I supposed to children. I'm supposed to work here, 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:57.360 I said, I am a maddie and I'm not a boss. 0:01:57.680 --> 0:02:00.440 They asked for the director. I was killing my friend's 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:03.000 thirteen children while she was on her honeymoon for two 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:05.720 and a half weeks. As soon as Renee called wind 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:09.440 of the raid, she found another babysitter and raced across town. 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:15.040 They went inside the office and the DHL stood there 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:16.560 and looked me in the face and said, you have 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:19.080 to get everyone out by five. And I said, well, 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:20.560 I don't know where we're going to send all these 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:25.160 kids because they all need really intensive care. And he said, 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:26.880 I don't care. You can send them home, you can 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:29.560 refer them to government facility, and I said, but sir, 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:32.040 these kids will die if we send them home, and 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:34.680 he said, you're right, they will die, but it's no 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:37.720 longer your problem, so get them out of here before 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:42.760 five o'clock or I'm taking you to jail. After that, 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:46.720 we saw any going in the boys quota and she 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:51.200 started crying. Then yes, hearing they have closed us down, 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:55.200 they have closed us down. She called it the stuff 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:58.880 and said the center has been closed. They could. The 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:03.079 driver packed up those mothers and took back the motherless 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:08.400 in their respective places, where they picked to them, women 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:11.400 on their knees, begging, please don't make us sleep, Please 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:13.120 aunt your name, please don't make us sleep. Our kids 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:15.600 are gonna die. And within three days, eight or nine 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:20.800 of those kids died in other facilities. In association with 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:24.960 I Heart Media, I'm Malcolm Burnley, I'm Roger Gola, I'm 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:30.760 Mega Condi. This is the Missionary episode seven Matthew eighteen. 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:52.800 If you compare the events of two thousand fifteen to 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:56.120 what is happening today with serving his children, it's a 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:59.920 bit like deja vu. For the first time, these quiet, 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:04.320 it simmering whispered complaints about what was happening inside the 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:08.120 facility started to get out and to be taken seriously 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:11.600 by people with actual authority. It was the first time 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:15.120 Renee was forced to answer questions on the record and 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:18.880 to be held accountable. The good Samaritan defense, the witch 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:22.440 hunt narrative, and the arguments that Renee was only dealing 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:26.359 with children under the watchful eye of Ugandan professionals. These 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:30.160 were all aired out five years ago. Two thousand fifteen 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:34.160 was the year that everything changed for serving his children 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:41.760 for Renee for Gina. Just weeks before the shutdown, to 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:46.800 pediatricians from non Lufenia Children's Hospital visited serving his children 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:50.760 and they were alarmed by certain conditions like the children 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:54.920 receiving intravenous fluids. When the pediatricians felt they didn't need 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:59.600 to so they took their concerns to Peter Joego Natamu, 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:03.279 the Strict Health Officer or d h O. We know 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:07.359 that the DHOW handed Renee an inspection notice bearing a 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:12.120 government insignia, which said in plain language why serving his 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:17.359 children was being shut down. The first violation was for 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:21.480 running a health facility with an expired license. What's weird 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:24.719 about this is that serving his children finally did get 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.919 a license in two thousand fourteen. They had passed a 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:32.920 government inspection and everything, but without renewal, the medical license 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:37.240 had expired by March two thousand fifteen. Renee says she 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:40.520 believed there was a grace period lasting several months where 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:43.159 they could operate without it as they waited to get 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:46.320 it renewed. I learned later that this was actually a 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:49.280 common misconception on the ground and that you gone and 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:52.719 officials are still trying to correct it. There is no 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:55.640 grace period. I mean, the realities is not that hard 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:59.160 to register. It's just a paperwork process, you know. Um 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:03.200 I really anyone who wanted to register a house center 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:08.200 probably could. I mean, the qualifications are not that heavy. 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:11.039 I mean the things that we put into place were 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:15.839 probably far stricter and more structured than what was required. 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:20.400 The obvious question here is that if it was so 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:24.320 easy to do, then why didn't she? For the record, 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:28.239 licensing is one of those issues that goes well beyond Renee. 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:31.120 A lot of Ugandan clinics have been shut down because 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:35.839 they didn't have active licenses. Regardless, it doesn't matter what 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:40.080 led the DHO to investigate that day elapsed a license 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:43.919 was all he needed to shut them down immediately because 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:47.760 it was illegal, and it wasn't all they found. The 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:51.240 d h O also wrote down that children with tuberculosis 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:53.560 or t B were mixed in with the rest of 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:57.279 the kids. Not only is t B an infectious disease, 0:06:57.520 --> 0:07:00.840 it's also a potential cause of malnutrish in, which is 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:04.600 why there are strict standards for quarantining children with TB 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:07.960 from those who don't have it, because otherwise you could 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:12.280 be treating one problem while potentially infecting children with another. 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:15.920 The third violation was a bit broad. The d h 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:18.480 O noted that there were children in need of higher 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:22.000 level care than what serving his children could visibly provide 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:25.640 cases that shouldn't have been handled there. So at the 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:28.640 end of the day, the person who was ultimately responsible 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:32.000 for the shutdown was the person who was running the facility. 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:41.360 That was Renee back. What's more, we learned that Renee 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:44.320 had made multiple attempts to try to get serving his 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:49.040 children reopened without addressing any of those problems. These were 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:52.040 actually rumors that we had heard very early on during 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:55.360 our reporting, claims that Renee had gone to the capital 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:59.280 of Kampala to try to get reopened had done something fishy. 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:02.840 What we did learn was this She met with Dr 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:06.400 Cotumba sin Tango, the chief executive of Uganda's medical and 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:09.680 dental counsel, who heard from in the last episode. He 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:12.760 remembers the meeting vividly because of where they met. He 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:15.440 was attending a conference and Renee was willing to meet 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:19.880 him in the hotel lobby. Doctor sin Tango remembers Renee 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:22.600 trying to convince him that the DHO had gotten it 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:26.120 wrong and to help her reopen, but that didn't fly 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:31.320 with him. So asked you what other issue and said, oh, 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:34.440 the districts have said, oh, if you did that to me, 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:39.320 get the phone. So no, I get the phone. So 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:43.040 I got the phone and I phoned. I founded, he 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:46.800 told me. Doctor sin Tango put the DHOW on speaker 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:49.920 phone to make sure that Renee could hear his explanation. 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:53.920 He said that if I was handling letters, especially, they 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:57.640 are not fit to manage and doctoral they taught them 0:08:57.679 --> 0:08:59.760 to defy the cases film in the hospital. You know 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.679 the right deal for a good affection of contra and whatever. 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:06.680 In the coming days, Dr sin Tango received calls from 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:11.319 politicians asking if he would reconsider Renee's appeal. He doesn't 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:15.400 remember exactly who called, he says, mostly because he didn't 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:18.439 pay the much attention. They don't above mean the profession. 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:23.240 But I think the politicians, say the local politicians. I 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:26.040 don't remember a bit of advertise. Remember somebody, senior. I 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:32.000 think there's some people fund me somewhere, the people fund 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:35.480 me to the guest anything. But as you like, yes, 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:43.840 you know, if you are not in the line of profession. Yeah, 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:46.840 keep in mind this is a person in a position 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:50.200 of authority saying this. He told Renee she would have 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:53.679 to fix the problems at serving his children and sorted 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:57.160 out with the d show before she could reopen. We 0:09:57.200 --> 0:09:59.719 don't know if Renee ever did that, but what we 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:02.360 do you know from the court documents is that Renee 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:05.800 solicited letters of support from some of the medical staff 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:10.199 she had employed, including mudasik Uza, the clinical officer we 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:13.000 heard from in the last episode. But when I showed 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:16.760 him the letter bearing his signature, he said he didn't 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:21.280 remember writing it. Later, a different official in Jinga, Henry 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:25.040 Kombaini of the Allied Health Professionals Counsel, told me he 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:29.319 remembered that months after the shutdown. Renee and another woman 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:33.360 came to his office to inquire about registering a lab 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:36.959 at serving his children, but he told them they needed 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:40.920 a valid license first. Was this Renee trying to back 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:44.000 channel the system in order to reopen or was it 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:47.520 her trying to figure out how to reopen the right way. 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:49.920 The person I thought would have the answer to that 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:53.160 was the d HO or district Health officer, and we 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:56.920 tried to speak with him multiple times. I even waited 0:10:56.960 --> 0:11:00.240 at his office for hours, but he refew is to 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:05.400 talk with us. Even now, Renee considers the shutdown a 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:09.960 personal hit job herself a victim of politics and Vendetta's 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:12.880 rather than the overt reasons staring her in the face, 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:17.880 including the government violations. Later, we were told, and you know, 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:19.640 we don't have any evidence to this, but that the 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:23.439 DJO was paid a bribe to come and close the center. 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:27.760 So when he came, he really had no option. So um, 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:30.400 you know, he had to come with a pretty serious 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:35.480 aggression because you know, he was paid a decent amount 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:37.520 of money to come and lead us to believe that 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:41.400 we were being closed. Here's what we actually know about 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:44.000 the series of events that led up to it. The 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:47.280 d h O got a tip from those pediatricians at Malathania, 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:51.400 but those pediatricians got a tip from inside the missionary world. 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:54.280 I had been the person to who volunteered to compile 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:56.080 all the evidence. I didn't have a lot of first 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:58.840 hand evidence myself, which is kind of why I volunteered 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:00.480 to do that, because I had her that I was 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:03.360 a little bit less emotionally involved and less emotionally charged. 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:07.359 Megan Parker didn't know Renee well. She had a reputation 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:10.600 as something of an outsider in Ginger, running a bide 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:14.040 family center, the NNGO she launched with Kelsey Nielsen in 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:17.760 two I just couldn't understand how people could look at 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:20.520 the same evidence we were looking at and come to 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:25.840 such different conclusions. Sometime in early the evidence gathered by 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:30.160 women like Ashley Laberty and Jackie Kramlike crystallized into a document. 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:34.280 It included photos from Renee's blog trying to show Renee 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:38.080 had violated patient privacy rights, a post where Renee seemed 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:42.040 to be transfusing a girl that we now know as Patricia. 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:44.920 There was a little bit of firsthand testimony contributed by 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:48.120 Ashley two, but most of the evidence was cut and 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:52.400 pasted from Renee's blogs, and that document started to make 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:56.840 its way around Ginger. Elizabeth Nicholson made a copy and 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.920 took it to the police. Another one went to Nalafa 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:03.080 in You, and they even sent the material to the media. 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:07.920 I think anything really came of that. No one communicated 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:11.760 with us after that until the day that serving as 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:15.280 shut down, and then obviously that was swirling all over town, 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:17.520 and that's when we kind of were like, WHOA, I 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:21.640 guess that did something. Renee described this document almost like 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:25.040 a high school burn book, coupled together by her rivals. 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:29.400 In order to ruin her reputation back, Kelsey and a 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:33.000 couple of other women created a file of just different 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:36.600 pieces of blogs, a couple of photos, and to be honest, 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:40.200 when I read it later, it sounded like they were 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:43.040 writing it for like a tabloid publication. It was like 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:45.640 fairly catty. It was almost I mean, it wasn't because 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:47.600 I was like a disaster at the time, but it 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:50.880 was almost comical, you know, just this mean girl undertone. 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:56.199 Later I did read the document, it didn't seem juvenile 0:13:56.280 --> 0:14:00.319 or frivolous or conspiratorial. Honestly, it read like an early 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:04.520 draft of the court case, except without stories like twel allies. 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:08.839 At the time, Megan and her colleagues believed they were whistleblowers, 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:13.160 but soon they were treated like snitches. At vacation Bible camp, 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:17.360 that very day, someone told me, people are really unhappy. 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:20.920 They think your approaches were unbiblical and that you should 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:23.000 never have gone to the authorities. You should have gone 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:26.600 to the church elders if you had concerned. I went 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:29.360 to missionary events and people would like refuse to speak 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:31.680 to me, And I think again, like that was I 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:33.640 was so like brigged out about that that I definitely 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:37.920 overestimated how many people were against me versus on my side. 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:41.720 Like the entire town was just split down the middle. 0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:59.520 After the shutdown, a group of religious leaders stepped in 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:01.760 with a plan and to end the bad blood and 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:06.040 determine once and for all, what if anything Renee did wrong. 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:10.880 Nobody agreed on anything in this story except one thing. 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:16.560 The church mediation was an unqualified disaster. You know, there 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:18.680 were so many of us that were seeing the same story, 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:22.720 giving the same narrative, and they just wouldn't listen or 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:24.520 wouldn't believe it, and they were just so like help 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:27.240 bent on standing up for Renee that it was just 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:33.080 like it was shocking, that's Ashley, here's Renee. I feel 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:37.680 very certain that Kelsey and everybody Jackie would say, oh, well, 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:40.400 the elders wanted to stick up for Renee. They just 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:43.400 didn't even want to hear what we had to say, 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:46.880 like they don't care. And I would probably say the 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:50.160 same thing. I feel like they were verbalizing to me like, hey, 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:53.200 we want to help this situation, like how can we 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:57.920 support you? But I didn't feel supported or helped at all. 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:00.600 I feel like they made my life more living. Count 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:04.000 Patrick Draku was a Ugandan elder at the church. When 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:09.000 I attended, I hoped to see humility this who thought 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:12.640 they were right, said Luke. I humble myself, I see 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:15.680 that I was wrong, and those who still think they're 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:19.880 right to try to listen to the other site. I 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:25.880 hoped for Christians behaving like much a Christians, not still infants. Yeah. 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:30.440 Three mediators agreed to lead the process. A church elder 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:33.200 named Jeremy Boone who led the church when I went 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:37.400 to and to other elders from other churches in the community. 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:40.760 But in the small world of Ginger, everyone already knew 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:45.880 each other old allegiances or the perception of them torpedo 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:49.160 the process before it began. None of them had ever 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:53.680 experienced anything like this before, where there was so much 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:57.640 like overwhelming brokenness. My perception of Jeremy was that he 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:03.320 went in hoping to help heal a community, realized that 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:06.160 the whole situation was way more complex than he perceived, 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:10.439 and he was just in totally over his head. The 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:14.040 mediators spoke about restoring peace, but they chose not to 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:17.720 bring both sides together. Renee and her accusers came in 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:21.560 separately for questioning, sitting down in plastic chairs below a 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:26.000 shady grove of palm trees. Megan Parker and Ashley Laberty 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:29.960 went together, and then they just tried using a whole 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:35.120 bunch of scripture out of context, basically to demean and 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:40.040 degrade Megan and I. It was very upsetting. I actually 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:42.320 had to sit on my hands because I was shaking 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:46.040 so badly. The mediators kept coming back to a part 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:50.639 of Matthew eighteen about the value of handling conflicts neighbor 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:55.440 to neighbor, Christian to Christian. I have a pastor daughter 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:59.080 born and raised okay um so lasts among the believers. 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:02.160 They're as this passage and first for instance, that if 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:05.480 members of the church have grievances against one another, why 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:09.040 would you go to a law that is an unrighteous 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:13.480 law instead of the thing? It's the exact line. And 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:16.520 we got really sort of heated because we're like, why 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:19.720 are you unable to see that this isn't a church matter? 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:21.520 And like why why would we have gone to the 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:24.760 church elders or church leadership? Because this was not a 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:27.240 biblical matter. This wasn't a church matter. It was a 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:31.800 moral and legal matter. But Ashley and Jackie had tried 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:36.520 for years to handle this inside the community, and now 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:40.080 they felt like these spiritual leaders weren't even taking them seriously. 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:44.639 Here's Jackie Kramlin. It was that whole thing that I'm like, 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:47.800 was just like awakening to the insanity of the rules 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:51.040 we followed as a community, you know that, like you 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:56.040 could come forward with children dying, um now practice and 0:18:56.160 --> 0:19:02.560 neglect kind of thing negligence and be told like, yeah, okay, 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:05.320 but you know you just said it, so me and 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:08.000 her feelings were really hurt. Let's all make a list 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:12.320 and bring her some special thing every day because she 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:16.040 feels so sad right now. They lost sight of like 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:19.480 what the medication was because they were like, well, not 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:22.760 our girls, because we're all in it involved, and the 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:28.520 mediation team was all men. The mediation completely backfired. Ashley 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:31.320 believed it could be a second chance for justice, a 0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:34.600 second chance to tell their stories, but by the end 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:39.000 she felt like they were being asked to atone not Renee. Again. 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:42.640 We're bringing up all these examples of the wrong that 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:45.320 Renee had done. Yet somehow they wanted us to feel 0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:47.959 like we were the ones in the wrong. And it 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:51.400 was just like a very dirty feeling. I wrote, hear 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:54.480 me like a personal email, like getting all of like 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:58.080 how this impact me, Like explaining to him that like 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:00.400 you're not only just kind of like turning your eyes 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:06.360 away from justice and child abused basically and um, even 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:08.920 when there's really hard evidence in front of your face. 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:11.679 But like in saying that she's fine, you're calling me 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:18.480 a buyer. But the mediation failed in another even more 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:23.760 significant way. The saga of serving his children was one 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:27.879 that affected Ugandan families, but Ugandans were never involved in 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:32.160 the process. The mediation would never address the actual issues 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:35.000 at hand. If it did not address the victims first. 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:40.000 In the end, the mediators wrote a letter commending Renee 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:44.119 for her cooperation and concluded quote that Renee and her 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:47.440 board saw their indiscretion and we're working hard to make 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:51.439 sure they were legally compliant and above board prior to 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:55.040 serving his children's clinic being shut down. But the letter 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:58.240 also went on to condemn those who brought the allegations 0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:01.040 in the first place, and said, is that the criticisms 0:21:01.119 --> 0:21:06.359 were not put forward in a caring manner. Let me 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:10.159 read you a line here. Harsh judgments concerning Renee's character 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:13.840 and in one event, the destination of her soul did 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:17.560 little to help bring facts to light. While it's understandable 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:20.280 to be frustrated with a perceived disinterest of Renee in 0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:23.399 her board, it is never right to be presumptuous about 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:27.200 such a grave matter a person's character or their soul. 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:32.920 I just always remember thinking and even telling my mom Um, 0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:35.840 I was like, you know, unless this gets into the media, 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:37.879 like nothing is ever going to happen. She's just going 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:40.360 to keep doing what she's doing. She's going to keep 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:43.320 getting praised for it. People are still going to stand 0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:46.960 up for her. Um. As much as I sorry, wanted 0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:49.640 to put it behind me. There was still this part 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:54.000 of me that like still wanted to see justice and 0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:58.560 like her, have to face the consequences of what she 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:02.080 had done. Oh, I didn't think that I was the 0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:07.000 person to make that all happen. Um. I felt like 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:09.679 I was never really going to be happy or like 0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:14.280 at at peace with this situation until that happened, if 0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:19.640 that ever happens. So what was your react? Go ahead, Yeah, 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:42.600 take a minute. I've been trying to get in contact 0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:46.280 with Jeremy Boone for months. I left him voicemails, texts, 0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:49.240 and emails. I could tell he had seen my messages, 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:53.160 but he never wrote back. Other folks in town told 0:22:53.160 --> 0:22:55.960 me it was a dead end. Jeremy was over at all. 0:22:56.480 --> 0:22:58.919 He'd put the whole thing behind him. He moved on 0:22:59.240 --> 0:23:03.000 and didn't want anything to do with it anymore. But 0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:07.240 then one day he responded, and a week later I 0:23:07.280 --> 0:23:10.359 was sitting cross legged on the floor of his living room. 0:23:10.400 --> 0:23:12.720 I wore the only button up shirt I packed, tucked 0:23:12.720 --> 0:23:15.040 into my jeans, trying to clean up the best I 0:23:15.080 --> 0:23:18.080 could for the church service that Jeremy was holding in 0:23:18.160 --> 0:23:31.240 his home. Goods. I'm thank you so much, Um, he 0:23:31.280 --> 0:23:34.480 and his wife started off leading a few songs. There 0:23:34.480 --> 0:23:39.760 were about forty people there, a mixed crowd of Ugandan's, Americans, kids, teens, adults, 0:23:40.480 --> 0:23:42.639 some who'd been there for decades and some who'd just 0:23:42.720 --> 0:23:50.760 gotten there a few weeks earlier. Yeah, so a few people. 0:23:51.760 --> 0:23:53.960 He's good to happen. Thank you very much for having 0:23:54.119 --> 0:24:00.119 very glad to hear he's a journalist. Actually he's went 0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:03.320 to du University and other of you care a lot 0:24:07.760 --> 0:24:13.320 here that so far, despite that fact, which is nice. 0:24:15.040 --> 0:24:19.719 The subject of that morning sermon was John seven Oddly 0:24:19.800 --> 0:24:29.040 residence John seven thirty seven. On the last and greatest 0:24:29.119 --> 0:24:31.399 day of the festival, Jesus stood and said, in a 0:24:31.520 --> 0:24:35.280 loud voice, let anyone who is thirsty come to me 0:24:35.400 --> 0:24:39.040 and drink. Whoever believes in me. Best scripture has said 0:24:39.200 --> 0:24:42.680 rivers of living model flowed with from it in them. 0:24:42.800 --> 0:24:46.680 By this, he meant the spirit with whom those who 0:24:46.720 --> 0:25:01.680 believed in him were later to receive so great. After 0:25:01.760 --> 0:25:04.639 the service and after the pot luck lunch, Jeremy and 0:25:04.640 --> 0:25:07.080 I made plans to do an interview the next day. 0:25:07.520 --> 0:25:09.600 He had things he needed to get off his chest 0:25:09.840 --> 0:25:13.919 about how everything went down, and the next day he 0:25:13.960 --> 0:25:16.720 came to my place. I offered him a glass of 0:25:16.760 --> 0:25:20.200 water and we took our seats in my living room. First, 0:25:20.240 --> 0:25:22.920 I just want to ask, like, what made you wanna 0:25:23.440 --> 0:25:27.560 say something about this? I'll be honest. I mean I'm 0:25:27.600 --> 0:25:31.960 still a little reluctant in some ways. Um, but you know, 0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:35.520 people are going to form their own opinions and autother 0:25:35.680 --> 0:25:40.560 them form it when I've actually spoken, rather than people 0:25:40.640 --> 0:25:44.760 form it based on, you know, my silence. And so yeah, 0:25:44.760 --> 0:25:47.639 I just wanted I could tell Jeremy was nervous. He 0:25:47.720 --> 0:25:50.320 gulped down the first glass of water quickly and got 0:25:50.359 --> 0:25:52.760 up every few minutes to refill his glass and catch 0:25:52.760 --> 0:25:56.000 his breath. He brought along a piece of notebook paper 0:25:56.040 --> 0:25:58.600 with him. Um, that's looking at so I want to 0:25:58.600 --> 0:26:01.720 notice it. And now I'm out this, So yeah, what 0:26:01.840 --> 0:26:04.080 don't I let you sort of lead it from here 0:26:04.119 --> 0:26:08.960