1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Hi, I'm 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 1: Carol Masser and I'm Tim Stanivak. Welcome to the Bloomberg 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:11,959 Speaker 1: Business Week Extra. It's our weekly podcast, and this is 4 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: where we highlight one of our favorite interviews, one of 5 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 1: the important interviews of the week, or just one of 6 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: those interviews that it's a topic that everyone has to 7 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: stay on top of. And one of those topics, of course, 8 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: is everything that is happening with COVID nineteen and the coronavirus. 9 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: And this week, we unfortunately saw more surges in COVID 10 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: nineteen cases and deaths. We hit another daily death record. 11 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 1: A voice to help talk us through it all is 12 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,599 Speaker 1: Dr Chris Buyer, Professor in Public Health and Human Rights 13 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. We're 14 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 1: still seeing rising cases and of course a tumultuous day 15 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: for our country, but also a record for COVID deaths 16 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 1: in the country. Um and we are expecting still as 17 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: as we had predicted, the post holiday season surge to continue. 18 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: We're in this very very challenging moment where we do 19 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: have a way forward, and that of course is the 20 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: COVID vaccines that have emergency use authorization now, but we're 21 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: not going to be able to immunize enough people to 22 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: start to really blunt this curve. And the next few 23 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: weeks and probably well into February are going to be 24 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: enormously challenging. You say, we're not going to be able 25 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: to You say, your doctor, we're not gonna be able 26 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: to immunize enough people. Do you mean in the next 27 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: few weeks do you mean this year? I mean to 28 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: blunt this current enormous way. So how will we see 29 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: this wave go down? Well, first of all, I think 30 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: we have to stick to the basics, right Um, we 31 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 1: have to really continue with mass wearing, with social distancing, 32 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: with handwashing. As hard as it is to say, vigilant 33 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: people are going to have to try and do that. 34 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: We do need to ramp up both manufacture and distribution 35 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: of the two approved vaccines we have, and of course 36 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: we have more vaccines in the pipeline. But as I'm 37 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: sure you know, we we've really had a slow start 38 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: to the immunization programs and a number of the states 39 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: really faced challenges. Yeah, the bottleneck is not in the 40 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: manufacturing of these right now. The bottleneck is in the 41 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: distribution we have a Bloomberg vaccine tracker, and it shows 42 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: that a very small portion, relatively number of vaccines that 43 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: have been distributed have actually been shot into the arms 44 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:28,679 Speaker 1: of people. That's right too, That's absolutely right, and it's 45 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: it's it's an enormous tragedy really, So Dr Byro. You know, 46 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: this is interesting because we've talked about this a lot 47 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: at home to about you know, we saw this with 48 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 1: the November election. We had sports teams, you know, step 49 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: up and say, you know what, use our stadiums used 50 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:45,679 Speaker 1: so that we can bring people in get the vote out. 51 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: Have you know, more polling places. I'm hearing conversations about that, 52 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: are already actions about that of taking some of these 53 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: giant places and setting them up as vaccine sites. Is 54 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: that what we need to kind of really get it 55 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: out into the system. And at the same time that 56 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: makes me a little nervous about large groups of people 57 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: that might have COVID going out there for the vaccine 58 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: and just got about fifty seconds and then we'll come 59 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: back and talk some more. Oh no, actually, I'm sorry, 60 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: we can keep going my bat Okay, Well, we really 61 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: need a coordinated effort um and of course we we 62 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: have an allocation strategy around healthcare workers, around the elderly, 63 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 1: in in UH congregate housing facilities, the staff of those facilities. UM. 64 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: But what we've seen, unfortunately, is that the vaccines are 65 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: moving to the states and out to places where people 66 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: can be immunized too slowly to unevenly. We've we've seen, 67 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: unfortunately the potential for vaccines to expire without being used. 68 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: That's a great loss. UH. And of course we have 69 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: to remember that with these two messenger RNA vaccines Maderna 70 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: and visor UH. Viser in particular has very challenging distribution 71 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: UH features because it has to be kept super cold. 72 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,839 Speaker 1: The low minus eight. The MODERNA vaccine is a little 73 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: easier to use, but they're both challenging to use and 74 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: they really do require very careful management. UM and UH. 75 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: And of course, you know, what we have is not 76 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: a national strategy, but fifty different states strategies, and many 77 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: of the governors are going in their own way. You 78 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: saw that Florida may have the decision not to prioritize 79 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: healthcare workers and instead go with the elderly, but without 80 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: preparing so long lines and people waiting overnight. That's not 81 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 1: a national strategy. So my gut says, nothing's going to 82 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: change until we have a new administration. What are your 83 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: hopes that from day one Joe Biden and team do 84 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: in terms of getting this out to people. Well, the 85 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: incoming administration Biden Harris does have a national strategy on COVID. 86 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: It's been up on their website. They have articulated that 87 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,600 Speaker 1: this is the principal priority. They're putting together a great team. 88 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: Dr Fauci, of course, is going to stay on as 89 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: a senior scientific advisor. The CDC director who's proposed for 90 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: Shell Willinsky, is an outstanding leader. Um, So I think 91 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 1: we're we're very optimistic that this is an administration that's 92 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 1: going to let the science lead and that is going 93 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: to try and have a national strategy. But they're inheriting 94 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: a rollout that's already underway and problematic, and I think 95 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 1: it's going to be really challenging to streamline this, to 96 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: make it coherent, uh and and to get it working. 97 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: The President elect is committed to a hundred million people 98 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: being vaccinated in the first hundred days. So that's not 99 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:40,239 Speaker 1: a hundred million doses, that's a hundred million immunizations. About 100 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: fifty million people with these two dose vaccines. Well, it 101 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: was looking realistic when he made a campaign promise. With 102 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: the rollout right now, I think it's going to be 103 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: enormously challenge. When when do you feel like things start 104 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 1: to get normal, When do we start to be able 105 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: to kind of reopen life as we know it and 106 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: love it. We will have about fifty million vaccines available, 107 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,159 Speaker 1: so enough for twenty million people by the end of 108 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: this month. February, March, and April are likely to still 109 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: be periods where we have more people who want to 110 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: be immunized than we have vaccines. What we're thinking is 111 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: that by June or July one we will have enough 112 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: vaccine for every American who wants one. Uh, and that 113 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 1: that is going to mean that really by the end 114 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: of the second quarter of one we should really be 115 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: seeing a change in life getting back to normal. We 116 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: have trials planned for the pediatric vaccines. Right now, we 117 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: only have one that's the the fisor vaccine that can 118 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: go down to age sixteen. But we also really need 119 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,359 Speaker 1: to do that work and be sure that we have 120 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:55,679 Speaker 1: vaccines for children and infants, for pregnant women, for lactating women. 121 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: So we still have some work to do, but but 122 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: the fall of one should look a lot different than 123 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: the spring dr buyer. One unfortunate element that we've seen 124 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: with the vaccine rollout has been skepticism of the American population. 125 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: Not everybody, but people who say, including healthcare workers, that 126 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: they don't want this vaccine. Have you received a vaccine yet? 127 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: I have not because I am a researcher and I 128 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: don't do direct patient care at Hopkins. We're we're not prioritized. Um. 129 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: I'm I'm hopeful that that I'll be in one of 130 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: the next groups. Uh, and I'm expecting to get get 131 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: a vaccine probably in February. How do we fix the 132 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: messaging here? I think one thing that's very encouraging. You 133 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: may have seen there was a recent Kaiser Family Foundation 134 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: poll that showed that vaccine acceptability, at least in that 135 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: poll was up around That's better than it's been, so 136 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: we're going in the right direction. I think it's very 137 00:07:55,200 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: important for healthcare workers, for political leaders like Biden Harris, 138 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: who both have been publicly immunized, to step up and 139 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: and model the behavior that we want to see. We also, 140 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: I'm working in the COVID Vaccine Prevention Network we've had 141 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: a big faith based initiative to try and address these 142 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: issues for African Americans in particular, that community unfortunately seems 143 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: to have some of the highest rates of vaccine hesitancy 144 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: and skepticism. UH and UH, and we're working hard with, 145 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: for example, African American physicians and networks to try and 146 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: improve uh people's positive sense of the benefits of these vaccines. 147 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:39,959 Speaker 1: They have very high efficacy ninety four and uh, they're 148 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: very safe as far as we can see so far. 149 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: We're following everybody in the trials who has been in 150 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: these vaccine trials for up to two years to look 151 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: at longer term safety. But UH, I think you know what, 152 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: what we're hopeful about is that as more and more 153 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: people get immunized, the folks who are saying right now, 154 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:02,839 Speaker 1: I'm not ready, uh, will will move towards getting immunized. 155 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: For most Americans, it's gonna be probably May or June 156 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: before they really can just decide if they want a vaccine. 157 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: So so the folks who are hesitant should wait and look. 158 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:20,959 Speaker 1: But but yeah, that's we're seeing, you know. Well, you know, 159 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:22,679 Speaker 1: it's interesting to say this and I hate to do this. 160 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: In like our last couple of minutes. But there is 161 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: a story on the Bloomberg. It's an opinion piece, but 162 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: it asked the question who's on the hook of vaccines 163 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: go wrong? And it's basically, you know, given the breakneck 164 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: pace of production, there are very few answers about what 165 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: manufacturers and governments are ultimately responsible for. God forbid something 166 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: should go wrong. And forgive me because I'm an optimist 167 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: and I believe in the science of this vaccine. But 168 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: as you said, you guys the medical community, well, we're 169 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 1: gonna be tracking people longer term to see if there 170 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: is any longer term impact because we still don't, to 171 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: be fair, to be honest, we still don't know. Well, 172 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:00,839 Speaker 1: that's right, and we need We are accumulating safety data 173 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 1: from the people in the trials and the people who've 174 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 1: been immunized. Every day. We have a vaccine adverse Events 175 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: reporting system that the CDC is managing. Um. Certainly everybody 176 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: in the healthcare systems who are getting immunized are being 177 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: tracked through those health systems. Uh, and we need to 178 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 1: follow this very carefully. I think it's important to remember 179 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: that there are always some risks associated with any medication, 180 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: any vaccine, any biomedical intervention. We all know that writing 181 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 1: is zero risk, but the flip side of that is 182 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: the risk of getting COVID. Learning more and more about 183 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: this disease is that that you know this, this has 184 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:47,319 Speaker 1: the potential to really kill you or alter your life. 185 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: That was Dr Chris Buyer, Professor in Public Health and 186 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:53,079 Speaker 1: Human Rights at the John Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public 187 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: Health and of course the Bloomberg School of Public Health, 188 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, founder of Bloomberg Up and 189 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Philanthropy. You've been listening to Bloomberg Business Week Extra, 190 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,079 Speaker 1: be sure to listen to Bloomberg Business Week Radio, air 191 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 1: live Monday through Friday at two pm Wall Street Time 192 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Carol Masser and I'm Tim Stenerberg. 193 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:11,439 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg