Speaker 1: Good morning, peepsend. Welcome to wok F Daily with Meet
Speaker 1: your Girl Danielle Moody. Recording from the Home Bunker. Folks,
Speaker 1: you know, oftentimes when Jonathan and I get ready to
Speaker 1: talk these days, you know, a lot of our conversations,
Speaker 1: well most of my conversations are never like pre thought out.
Speaker 1: It's really on the issues of the day, how we're feeling,
Speaker 1: which is why you get the passion and the conversational
Speaker 1: tone that you receive. I wanted to have a different
Speaker 1: conversation today on the show than Jonathan did, but we
Speaker 1: went with Jonathan's thoughts because I thought that they were
Speaker 1: incredibly important. You know, we talked to him on a
Speaker 1: regular basis because he is one of the foremost thinkers
Speaker 1: on white privilege, white anxiety, white you know, rage and
Speaker 1: the like, and its connection to guns and gun culture
Speaker 1: in America, and as we continue to see the rise
Speaker 1: in domestic terrorism at the hands of white Americans, it's
Speaker 1: incredibly important to continue having those conversations. But today Jonathan
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about his role as a professor and
Speaker 1: how universities and colleges across this country are under attack
Speaker 1: by the right wing fascist Republican Party that is seeking
Speaker 1: to control the minds of the youth so that they
Speaker 1: can control the future. And it is something that is
Speaker 1: always front of mind for me. But given Jonathan's you know,
Speaker 1: personal connection as a professor, as somebody who does the work,
Speaker 1: you know, to speak at different conferences and to travel
Speaker 1: and speak on different campuses, he shares stories today about
Speaker 1: how he's seeing a shift in conversation and culture that
Speaker 1: is coming from both inside of universities and faculty and
Speaker 1: the pressure outside that is coming in. And it's a
Speaker 1: really important conversation. And I continue to say this that
Speaker 1: whether or not you have you know, children inside of
Speaker 1: the universities and colleges or K through twelve, does not matter,
Speaker 1: because education is the foundation of our democracy, and once
Speaker 1: educators and those students start receiving hate and pushback, it
Speaker 1: is a threat to our ability to function as a democracy.
Speaker 1: And so this matters to everyone. So I hope that
Speaker 1: you enjoy this conversation that Jonathan and I get into,
Speaker 1: and as always, we appreciate the shout outs and critiques
Speaker 1: that you give us on social media. So I'm really
Speaker 1: looking forward to hearing what you all think about this conversation.
Speaker 1: If you're a patron. You know, get at me in
Speaker 1: the comments below this video. If you are listening in
Speaker 1: another place on iHeart Apple, Spotify, you know, hit me
Speaker 1: up on social at D two cents D E two
Speaker 1: c E N T S. Conversation with doctor Jonathan Metzel
Speaker 1: is coming up next. Folks. You know that whenever we
Speaker 1: have the opportunity to speak with our friend in house,
Speaker 1: doctor doctor Jonathan metsl we are always thrilled. And I
Speaker 1: had an idea of what I wanted to talk about
Speaker 1: today and Jonathan said, yeah, I don't want to talk
Speaker 1: about that, which is totally fine. And so you know, Jonathan,
Speaker 1: you bring up the fact that you wanted to connect
Speaker 1: on something more personal, which is the fact that you
Speaker 1: are an esteemed professor at Vanderbilt University, which is in Tennessee,
Speaker 1: a red state, and talking about your experience right now
Speaker 1: of working under I'm assuming really at times difficult conditions.
Speaker 1: So take it away.
Speaker 2: I'll start with three data points, and by the way,
Speaker 2: we can talk about I mean, definitely much more to
Speaker 2: talk about guns. The whole the guns is not going
Speaker 2: anywhere unfortunately unfortunately. But I guess there are three data
Speaker 2: points that I'll just pose as provocations that then we
Speaker 2: can jump off for our conversation. Data Point one is
Speaker 2: a bit of a mailbag. I love all the feedback
Speaker 2: we get from listeners to this podcast. It's fantastic and
Speaker 2: it's amazing that people are so engaged. And one comment
Speaker 2: was I wouldn't say a critique of me, but it
Speaker 2: was basically like, I'm not being strident enough in a way,
Speaker 2: I'm not being in your face enough, I'm not critiquing enough,
Speaker 2: and I don't take it personally like I think it's
Speaker 2: partially true, like I'm sure I'm more measured than other
Speaker 2: people who are in the media or social media, people
Speaker 2: like I feel like I have a responsibility as an
Speaker 2: academic sometimes that I can't say stuff that I can't
Speaker 2: support in a certain kind of way. But the person said,
Speaker 2: why wasn't I being more And it was partially, you know,
Speaker 2: last week, you and I talked about burn it down,
Speaker 2: and I was pushing back and saying I can't. I
Speaker 2: just can't say burn it down. And it's partially who
Speaker 2: I am as a person. But it's also like I
Speaker 2: still feel like as a as an academic and as
Speaker 2: a researcher, I want to take positions that I can support,
Speaker 2: and maybe that's you know, I just feel sometimes I
Speaker 2: wouldn't say jealous of people who like Jua Jali or
Speaker 2: other people like that, who are you know, friends of
Speaker 2: mine or you or other people like that, But I
Speaker 2: feel like for me, I'm kind of living in these
Speaker 2: two worlds, and one of the worlds is like, where's
Speaker 2: your evidence for all that stuff? And the other world,
Speaker 2: like when I'm on Twitter, for example, is more like
Speaker 2: the more strident stuff I would say, the more I
Speaker 2: would get rewarded on social media for saying things like that.
Speaker 2: And so data point number one was just that piece
Speaker 2: of feedback that we got a couple of weeks ago
Speaker 2: about why wasn't I being more vocal? Which I take
Speaker 2: and I thought about that comment a lot. The number
Speaker 2: two is the state of academia. Right now, I teach
Speaker 2: at a private school. I feel relatively protected, but I
Speaker 2: have colleagues all over the country who are in trouble
Speaker 2: for stuff they've said, and even at Vanderbilt. So at
Speaker 2: Vanderbilt we had professors who I've won colleague who gave
Speaker 2: grand rounds in the medical school, a big lecture in
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, and usually they record grand rounds. They put
Speaker 2: them up online. They you know, they're archived. And what
Speaker 2: happened was Matt Wallash and all the right wing crowd
Speaker 2: found this twenty sixteen thing, doctored it a little bit,
Speaker 2: cut it, put it up online, and it was a
Speaker 2: swarm of stuff where this person who probably wasn't thinking
Speaker 2: it was about transsexuality and the importance of paying attention
Speaker 2: to trans health in medical clinics. But all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: like my colleague was under attack. They were meant writing
Speaker 2: the thing, you know, the chancellor, the provost, my colleague
Speaker 2: actually to go into live in another place for a month.
Speaker 2: And so in a way, there's something about like what's
Speaker 2: happening to professors, which I think just puts I don't
Speaker 2: think we're being silenced, but I do think the stakes
Speaker 2: are very real right now being an academic in a.
Speaker 1: Public I mean, I just want to pause for a second,
Speaker 1: because like you just kind of glossed over the fact
Speaker 1: that your friend went to go live in a different
Speaker 1: place for a month. Yeah, because they wanted to live
Speaker 1: in a different place for a month, or because they
Speaker 1: felt that where they were living was unsafe, because they
Speaker 1: were being targeted, Because these are things that I don't
Speaker 1: want to just kind of rush over or a gloss
Speaker 1: over that you're changing your physical surroundings for safety.
Speaker 2: Well some people, so I'll put it all in this
Speaker 2: huge bucket. I realized this is a massive bucket. And
Speaker 2: I will say that even when I had remembered the
Speaker 2: Nazis came. When I gave my talk in twenty nineteen
Speaker 2: at the Politics and Pros they published my utility bill
Speaker 2: online and renew my address, and the same thing happened
Speaker 2: to her, and then she had to go into protection
Speaker 2: because she was getting all these things. And so partially
Speaker 2: there is there's all this kind of threat of the
Speaker 2: right wing going after academics right now. And on one hand,
Speaker 2: you want to say, you know, to hell with that
Speaker 2: and burn it all down and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: And certainly that's obviously I wrote a book Dying of Whiteness.
Speaker 2: My next book's even going to be more controversial, so
Speaker 2: it's not like I'm backing down from that fight. But
Speaker 2: I do think that partially in the back of my
Speaker 2: mind there is this thing, which is, man, do I
Speaker 2: want this to be doctored and show up on right
Speaker 2: wing media or something? And it's very real, right, I'm
Speaker 2: giving a talk in a month at a major DEI conference.
Speaker 2: I'm the keynote speaker at a big DEI conference, and
Speaker 2: I'm already getting like bombarded with a right wing email
Speaker 2: and right wing you know, this concerned student activist group.
Speaker 2: So even saying that I'm speaking at a DEI conference
Speaker 2: right now brings this response. And so that number two
Speaker 2: is just that there are stakes for people who are
Speaker 2: public intellectuals right now that are professional but political, social,
Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff. And then I guess the
Speaker 2: third thing is colleges are there is this kind of
Speaker 2: cancel culture blowback, and I mean, colleges are getting more
Speaker 2: conservative honestly, you know places are colleges are basically saying
Speaker 2: conservative voices aren't being heard enough. You can see what's
Speaker 2: happening in the universities in Florida, but it's happening in Tennessee.
Speaker 2: So there is a pushback about just college.
Speaker 1: Right. This is what I will say about what is
Speaker 1: happening and the domino effect out of Florida and it's
Speaker 1: spreading around the country with regard to conservative voices, is
Speaker 1: that it is not conservative voices that are being silenced
Speaker 1: and don't get position on college campuses. It is racism,
Speaker 1: white supremacy, patriarchy, homophobia, and transphobia that should not have
Speaker 1: a place in academia. And the fact that there is
Speaker 1: no there there is no distinction that can be made
Speaker 1: between what is the right wing fascist Republican movement and
Speaker 1: hatred that there is, like, there is no there is
Speaker 1: no place for it in academia. And so when they
Speaker 1: go off and they say, oh, well, the liberal media
Speaker 1: or the liberal this, that and the other thing, it's
Speaker 1: like there is no two guides to transphobia, to racism
Speaker 1: and to bigotry. And so because they have set up
Speaker 1: this false dichotomy between those that believe in equity and
Speaker 1: inclusion of all people and voices and their denial of
Speaker 1: that fact and using religion as their shield so that
Speaker 1: they can continue to proselytize their bullshit, is where the
Speaker 1: problem is. And the fact that folks don't push back
Speaker 1: in very serious ways, and it is left to students
Speaker 1: to either not show up or to protest on their
Speaker 1: campuses for their rights to be educated in the way
Speaker 1: that they want is where we are and where the
Speaker 1: Republican Party has wanted to bring this country because education
Speaker 1: allows there to be an expansion of thought and a
Speaker 1: creation of empathy that they don't want, because empathy then
Speaker 1: would find us in a place where we're questioning policies
Speaker 1: that adversely affect those that are most marginalized.
Speaker 2: No, I mean, obviously that's you've just described my scholarship
Speaker 2: for the past twenty years. So of course I totally
Speaker 2: agree with you. And DEI offices, as you know, are
Speaker 2: being closed across the country in the aftermath of the
Speaker 2: Supreme Court horrible decision, and I made a decision, like
Speaker 2: you know, I'm speaking at tons of DEI conferences going forward,
Speaker 2: and at the White Frivolege conference and at the People's
Speaker 2: Conference in Seattle. I've lined my year with conferences where
Speaker 2: I'm going to be supporting the importance of diversity, and
Speaker 2: so I'm very public about that. But I and and
Speaker 2: and you know, I'm it comes at a price, right,
Speaker 2: which is but the stuff I get, the crazy stuff
Speaker 2: I get in my email or on Twitter that I
Speaker 2: kind of it's kind of predicted. You know, there's a
Speaker 2: there's a professor's watch list, and I'm on it, and
Speaker 2: it's put out by I think turning point one of
Speaker 2: these big you know, the one Trump speaks at all time.
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of people on these a lot
Speaker 2: of liberal professors. We're all on this professor watch list
Speaker 2: right now, And it means every time you give a talk,
Speaker 2: conservatives are coming and taping you and blah blah blah
Speaker 2: blah blah. So it's just an interesting time enough for me,
Speaker 2: that is overt, right, that is clear, and I totally
Speaker 2: support exactly what you just said, which is this is
Speaker 2: this is the battle for the minds of our nation
Speaker 2: going forward, right, I mean, are we going to step
Speaker 2: back from the progress we've made about equity? I mean,
Speaker 2: when I wrote my book Protest Psychosis, I studied medical
Speaker 2: journals in the fifties where race wasn't even a category
Speaker 2: of analysis. Nobody even took race data because they didn't
Speaker 2: they only did research on white people. So for me,
Speaker 2: that's the overt part, and that's the battle, that's the
Speaker 2: battle line. I see that. But then there's more subtle
Speaker 2: stuff of being on a college campus, like I've had
Speaker 2: a series of examples of like, you know, we were
Speaker 2: at a faculty meeting for another department and somebody did
Speaker 2: a land statement at the beginning of the faculty meeting,
Speaker 2: and as we were leaving, somebody in the pack, where
Speaker 2: as we were walking out, said, thankfully, we're not going
Speaker 2: to have to hear that woke stuff anymore. A professor said,
Speaker 2: woke staff, And I thought, how do you get off
Speaker 2: saying woke staff? You know what I mean? Like, it's
Speaker 2: obviously white professor. And so I guess people felt like, oh,
Speaker 2: the liberals had gone too far with these land statements
Speaker 2: and blah blah blah pronouns and all that, and so
Speaker 2: it's kind of that it's the subtle, everyday policing that's
Speaker 2: going to happen on college campuses. For me, that's the
Speaker 2: bigger concern is what happens in the everyday world where
Speaker 2: people are, where these kind of conservative policing views become
Speaker 2: the norm, especially in places where they're like look at
Speaker 2: Florida pushing out a lot of our West Virginia pushing
Speaker 2: out humanity's faculty, literature faculty, language faculty and replacing them
Speaker 2: with more more conservative faculty. So it's more that subtle.
Speaker 2: Remember that book Hitler's Willing Executioners about the Holocaust. It's
Speaker 2: kind of the everyday stuff that I feel like, And
Speaker 2: I guess again, This was all brought on for me
Speaker 2: because of the review, the comment for our conversation where
Speaker 2: somebody said I was holding back and I said, man,
Speaker 2: am I holding back now because of because of this climate?
Speaker 2: And what does that mean?
Speaker 1: I think that people want to express their frustration anger differently, right.
Speaker 1: I am somebody that people come to to listen to,
Speaker 1: because my expression of anger is very outward and is
Speaker 1: steeped in a lot of passion, because I am genuinely
Speaker 1: really angry and outdone on a regular basis watching the
Speaker 1: dismantling of a country that I have hopes for, right
Speaker 1: and had pride in and wanting wanted as a public
Speaker 1: servant to make it better. And so it is it's heartbreaking, right,
Speaker 1: and so my rage comes from that place. I think
Speaker 1: that for you, as a professor, as you know, a
Speaker 1: researcher and an analyst, it is really providing the data
Speaker 1: points and providing the information to back up what it
Speaker 1: is that some of us you know, yell about, right,
Speaker 1: And I think that it is important for people to
Speaker 1: realize that not everyone expresses their emotion of this moment
Speaker 1: in the same way. But I think to your point,
Speaker 1: with regard to what we're seeing happen at college campuses,
Speaker 1: and you know, you can look at I think it
Speaker 1: is a new school in Florida. I think that that
Speaker 1: may be the name of it. I'm not one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: Sure that's right, that's right.
Speaker 1: That you know, there are students who were coming in
Speaker 1: for their fourth year, right their their final year, their
Speaker 1: senior year, and they're leaving and they're transferring. And there's
Speaker 1: a school in Massachusetts that has opened up their doors
Speaker 1: particularly to those not only the faculty that have fled
Speaker 1: because they've lost forty percent of their faculty because of
Speaker 1: the board of trustees that Ron De Santis has put
Speaker 1: in place that are about essentially what I will refer
Speaker 1: to as the dumbing down and indoctrination of America's youth.
Speaker 1: Because just like the Moms for Liberty, they did not
Speaker 1: make a misstep by quoting Hitler in their first newsletter
Speaker 1: that they put out saying that like, if you have
Speaker 1: the youth, you have the future. That was not a misstep.
Speaker 1: They were not. That was in an accident. It is
Speaker 1: the fact that education has always been the ground zero
Speaker 1: for any movement in this country, whether that movement is
Speaker 1: backwards or forwards. Because we know that education is power
Speaker 1: and that's what the right knows. And so they're like,
Speaker 1: if we can ban critical thought, if we can erase
Speaker 1: people of color, people with disabilities, queer people from having
Speaker 1: any place right on our library shelves, then you can
Speaker 1: continue with the lie of white exceptionalism and no one
Speaker 1: will come for our privileges.
Speaker 2: And let me let me just say, there are a
Speaker 2: million times in our conversations where like I'll have some
Speaker 2: scattered thought and then you'll say something powerfully and clearly,
Speaker 2: and I'll be like, man, I wish I could have
Speaker 2: said that, like Danielle just said it, you know, like
Speaker 2: you it's not just anger, Like you're a very clear, articulate, forceful,
Speaker 2: convincing speaker, right, I mean I don't. I don't think
Speaker 2: it's just like because I'm in academia, I got to
Speaker 2: be like repressed white guy in a box or something
Speaker 2: like that, you know, Like you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 2: I think I think it's I think it's I think
Speaker 2: it's I think it's incredible, and I think it's important.
Speaker 2: I think it's needed. And and the other part, though,
Speaker 2: is there's pressure on academics right now. I just want
Speaker 2: people to realize that, and I'm not asking for sympathy
Speaker 2: or anything like that, but like Trump, his main platform
Speaker 2: is if I win, I'm not just going after universities.
Speaker 2: I'm going after the crediting boards. And and then it's like,
Speaker 2: you know, you're going to see a lot of that,
Speaker 2: But there's also a lot of subtle stuff happening. I mean,
Speaker 2: University Wisconsin just opened a gun study center that is
Speaker 2: funded by the gun industry, and so there's going to
Speaker 2: be a lot of gun research that is showing the
Speaker 2: benefits of carrying a weapon and stuff like that. Like
Speaker 2: universities are becoming you know, playing grounds, battlegrounds for what
Speaker 2: is an idea? What is a fact? What is it fact?
Speaker 2: We've had that played out in the media a lot,
Speaker 2: and I think that universities are going to be the
Speaker 2: next place. On one hand, that kind of I mean
Speaker 2: that cancel culture stuff hopefully is dying down. But I
Speaker 2: just think this question of like what is academic knowledge,
Speaker 2: what certifies it, what it credits it, how do we
Speaker 2: validate it? It really will matter who wins the presidential
Speaker 2: election for the future of universities. And so if you
Speaker 2: hear academics like me kind of hedging our bets a
Speaker 2: little bit. It's just that we're under a lot of
Speaker 2: you know, there's a lot of push and pull right now,
Speaker 2: I would say, and it makes the work of standing
Speaker 2: up for inequity even more important. Right, this is the
Speaker 2: time where the people who care step to the front
Speaker 2: of the line. And and and I hope that that's
Speaker 2: what I'm doing. But it's just again, this message made
Speaker 2: me think, like my holding back because of this moment.
Speaker 1: Everything that you're saying is how fascism and authoritarianism works, right,
Speaker 1: it is. It is Martin Neam Mohler's poem. First they
Speaker 1: come for right. First they come for the politicians and
Speaker 1: the activists and those that are outspoken, right. Then they
Speaker 1: come for the professors and the academics and the thinkers right,
Speaker 1: and the innovators and the change makers, and then they
Speaker 1: come for everybody else. So if you can control how
Speaker 1: people think and the information that they receive, you can
Speaker 1: control them. And so they're they're not doing this under
Speaker 1: the cloak of darkness. They are doing it in broad daylight.
Speaker 1: And for everyone you know, folks that listen to this show,
Speaker 1: they are one hundred percent woke. But I say to them,
Speaker 1: all the time, share the messages, share the episodes, push
Speaker 1: it out to those that are on the fence, to
Speaker 1: those that say to you and shrug, oh, this can't
Speaker 1: happen here, and tell them that it is happening right,
Speaker 1: like we're watching this. The other day, I interviewed on
Speaker 1: my other show, The New Abnormal, I interviewed Ruth ben Guillott, right,
Speaker 1: the author of Strong Men, and I said, you know, Ruth,
Speaker 1: we follow each other on social media, and I, you know,
Speaker 1: literally will retweet everything that you put out. You study,
Speaker 1: you know, Europe, You've studied European fascism and in Italy
Speaker 1: and Mussolini, and her book strong Men From Mussolini to
Speaker 1: the Present came out in twenty twenty as kind of
Speaker 1: a precursor to where we are, and she goes, there
Speaker 1: isn't a thing that is happening that doesn't mirror what
Speaker 1: happened in Europe. She's like, there is nothing that I
Speaker 1: can point to you to say, well, it may not happen.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm like, damn, Ruth's.
Speaker 2: Except the methods are better. They just had Lenny Rievensnall
Speaker 2: and we've got like, you know, Elon Muskin, Starlink and
Speaker 2: everything else. So no, it's it's a it's a it's
Speaker 2: a moment. It really is a moment, and I'm in
Speaker 2: the middle of it, right. I mean, my next book
Speaker 2: is going to be my next book is going to
Speaker 2: show how a naked white mass shooter is an embodiment
Speaker 2: of the values of white America. Like it's not like
Speaker 2: I'm back and down. But I would also say, I'm
Speaker 2: I'm just aware now of this in a way I
Speaker 2: haven't always been.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that it's you know, I think
Speaker 1: it's important. I'm excited for your new book, which you
Speaker 1: said what it comes out in January, right, January thirtieth,
Speaker 1: so it'll it'll I mean, it'll be out at the
Speaker 1: top of the year. So I can't wait for us
Speaker 1: to really be able to go in depth and have
Speaker 1: a conversation about it. But you know, I guess my
Speaker 1: recommendation and I'll ask you, Jonathan as well. My recommendation
Speaker 1: to folks, whether or not you have you know, family members,
Speaker 1: kids that are in you know, the university and college systems,
Speaker 1: is that these are what the education is, what fundamentally
Speaker 1: is the foundation of our democracy. So whether or not,
Speaker 1: like you need to be invested in what is happening,
Speaker 1: whether or not you have immediate you know, a relationship
Speaker 1: to said universities or K through twelve schools because you
Speaker 1: don't have kids like this is going to and is
Speaker 1: affecting us all in how we're able to speak, you know, openly.
Speaker 1: And I just will remind folks that when I went
Speaker 1: to in twenty fifteen, when I traveled to Israel and
Speaker 1: Palestine and came back to the United States, I came
Speaker 1: back with PTSD because I was there and I recognized
Speaker 1: that all of a sudden, I wasn't able to sit
Speaker 1: down at dinners and have free conversation about like my
Speaker 1: thoughts on what was happening over you know, over a
Speaker 1: dinner because of who might be listening, right and how
Speaker 1: that may affect like the travel moving forward and where
Speaker 1: we were going and what we were doing. And I
Speaker 1: became very aware and very scared of my movements. And
Speaker 1: so you know, when we and I came back to
Speaker 1: the United States and I said, oh my god, this
Speaker 1: can happen here, right And this was this was pre
Speaker 1: Trump and then the year following would be the escalator.
Speaker 1: So it is it is, it is wild, you know,
Speaker 1: where we are, and I think that it's important for
Speaker 1: folks to, you know, to to recognize that and recognize
Speaker 1: its importance to you. So last thoughts to you, Jonathan.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just don't take anything for granted. I mean, it's
Speaker 2: not like it's a false binary that universities are liberal
Speaker 2: and politics are conservative. Universities are also very conservative. There
Speaker 2: are the boards of many universities are very conservative. The
Speaker 2: endowment managers are conservative, and university it's not like universities.
Speaker 2: Universities follow, you know, the student demand in a certain
Speaker 2: kind of way, and so the universities are complicated. They're
Speaker 2: not just one thing. And so the liberties people take
Speaker 2: for granted on universities of being able to say whatever
Speaker 2: they want, they're They're not just in danger because of
Speaker 2: external things. They're in danger because universities follow markets, right,
Speaker 2: They follow the politics and the markets, and so people
Speaker 2: really need to speak up on campuses about the importance
Speaker 2: of free speech on campuses, and not just students but parents, supporters, alumnis.
Speaker 1: Yeah, as always, my friend, Jonathan Matzel, thank you for
Speaker 1: a thoughtful and engaging conversation, and friends who are listening,
Speaker 1: keep setting us the tweets and the dms and the comments.
Speaker 1: It is really helpful and we do think on it,
Speaker 1: so we appreciate you all as well. That is it
Speaker 1: for me today, dear friends on Woke af AS always,
Speaker 1: Power to the people and to all the people. Power,
Speaker 1: get woke and stay woke as fuck.