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Speaker 1: Good morning, peepsend. Welcome to wok F Daily with Meet

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Speaker 1: your Girl Danielle Moody. Recording from the Home Bunker. Folks,

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Speaker 1: you know, oftentimes when Jonathan and I get ready to

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Speaker 1: talk these days, you know, a lot of our conversations,

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Speaker 1: well most of my conversations are never like pre thought out.

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Speaker 1: It's really on the issues of the day, how we're feeling,

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Speaker 1: which is why you get the passion and the conversational

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Speaker 1: tone that you receive. I wanted to have a different

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Speaker 1: conversation today on the show than Jonathan did, but we

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Speaker 1: went with Jonathan's thoughts because I thought that they were

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Speaker 1: incredibly important. You know, we talked to him on a

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Speaker 1: regular basis because he is one of the foremost thinkers

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Speaker 1: on white privilege, white anxiety, white you know, rage and

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Speaker 1: the like, and its connection to guns and gun culture

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Speaker 1: in America, and as we continue to see the rise

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Speaker 1: in domestic terrorism at the hands of white Americans, it's

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Speaker 1: incredibly important to continue having those conversations. But today Jonathan

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Speaker 1: wanted to talk about his role as a professor and

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Speaker 1: how universities and colleges across this country are under attack

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Speaker 1: by the right wing fascist Republican Party that is seeking

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Speaker 1: to control the minds of the youth so that they

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Speaker 1: can control the future. And it is something that is

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Speaker 1: always front of mind for me. But given Jonathan's you know,

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Speaker 1: personal connection as a professor, as somebody who does the work,

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Speaker 1: you know, to speak at different conferences and to travel

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Speaker 1: and speak on different campuses, he shares stories today about

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Speaker 1: how he's seeing a shift in conversation and culture that

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Speaker 1: is coming from both inside of universities and faculty and

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Speaker 1: the pressure outside that is coming in. And it's a

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Speaker 1: really important conversation. And I continue to say this that

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Speaker 1: whether or not you have you know, children inside of

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Speaker 1: the universities and colleges or K through twelve, does not matter,

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Speaker 1: because education is the foundation of our democracy, and once

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Speaker 1: educators and those students start receiving hate and pushback, it

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Speaker 1: is a threat to our ability to function as a democracy.

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Speaker 1: And so this matters to everyone. So I hope that

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Speaker 1: you enjoy this conversation that Jonathan and I get into,

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Speaker 1: and as always, we appreciate the shout outs and critiques

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Speaker 1: that you give us on social media. So I'm really

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Speaker 1: looking forward to hearing what you all think about this conversation.

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Speaker 1: If you're a patron. You know, get at me in

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Speaker 1: the comments below this video. If you are listening in

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Speaker 1: another place on iHeart Apple, Spotify, you know, hit me

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Speaker 1: up on social at D two cents D E two

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Speaker 1: c E N T S. Conversation with doctor Jonathan Metzel

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Speaker 1: is coming up next. Folks. You know that whenever we

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Speaker 1: have the opportunity to speak with our friend in house,

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Speaker 1: doctor doctor Jonathan metsl we are always thrilled. And I

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Speaker 1: had an idea of what I wanted to talk about

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Speaker 1: today and Jonathan said, yeah, I don't want to talk

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Speaker 1: about that, which is totally fine. And so you know, Jonathan,

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Speaker 1: you bring up the fact that you wanted to connect

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Speaker 1: on something more personal, which is the fact that you

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Speaker 1: are an esteemed professor at Vanderbilt University, which is in Tennessee,

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Speaker 1: a red state, and talking about your experience right now

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Speaker 1: of working under I'm assuming really at times difficult conditions.

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Speaker 1: So take it away.

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Speaker 2: I'll start with three data points, and by the way,

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Speaker 2: we can talk about I mean, definitely much more to

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Speaker 2: talk about guns. The whole the guns is not going

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Speaker 2: anywhere unfortunately unfortunately. But I guess there are three data

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Speaker 2: points that I'll just pose as provocations that then we

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Speaker 2: can jump off for our conversation. Data Point one is

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Speaker 2: a bit of a mailbag. I love all the feedback

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Speaker 2: we get from listeners to this podcast. It's fantastic and

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Speaker 2: it's amazing that people are so engaged. And one comment

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Speaker 2: was I wouldn't say a critique of me, but it

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Speaker 2: was basically like, I'm not being strident enough in a way,

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Speaker 2: I'm not being in your face enough, I'm not critiquing enough,

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Speaker 2: and I don't take it personally like I think it's

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Speaker 2: partially true, like I'm sure I'm more measured than other

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Speaker 2: people who are in the media or social media, people

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Speaker 2: like I feel like I have a responsibility as an

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Speaker 2: academic sometimes that I can't say stuff that I can't

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Speaker 2: support in a certain kind of way. But the person said,

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Speaker 2: why wasn't I being more And it was partially, you know,

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Speaker 2: last week, you and I talked about burn it down,

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Speaker 2: and I was pushing back and saying I can't. I

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Speaker 2: just can't say burn it down. And it's partially who

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Speaker 2: I am as a person. But it's also like I

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Speaker 2: still feel like as a as an academic and as

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Speaker 2: a researcher, I want to take positions that I can support,

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Speaker 2: and maybe that's you know, I just feel sometimes I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't say jealous of people who like Jua Jali or

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Speaker 2: other people like that, who are you know, friends of

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Speaker 2: mine or you or other people like that, But I

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Speaker 2: feel like for me, I'm kind of living in these

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Speaker 2: two worlds, and one of the worlds is like, where's

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Speaker 2: your evidence for all that stuff? And the other world,

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Speaker 2: like when I'm on Twitter, for example, is more like

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Speaker 2: the more strident stuff I would say, the more I

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Speaker 2: would get rewarded on social media for saying things like that.

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Speaker 2: And so data point number one was just that piece

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Speaker 2: of feedback that we got a couple of weeks ago

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Speaker 2: about why wasn't I being more vocal? Which I take

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Speaker 2: and I thought about that comment a lot. The number

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Speaker 2: two is the state of academia. Right now, I teach

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Speaker 2: at a private school. I feel relatively protected, but I

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Speaker 2: have colleagues all over the country who are in trouble

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Speaker 2: for stuff they've said, and even at Vanderbilt. So at

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Speaker 2: Vanderbilt we had professors who I've won colleague who gave

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Speaker 2: grand rounds in the medical school, a big lecture in

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Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, and usually they record grand rounds. They put

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Speaker 2: them up online. They you know, they're archived. And what

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Speaker 2: happened was Matt Wallash and all the right wing crowd

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Speaker 2: found this twenty sixteen thing, doctored it a little bit,

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Speaker 2: cut it, put it up online, and it was a

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Speaker 2: swarm of stuff where this person who probably wasn't thinking

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Speaker 2: it was about transsexuality and the importance of paying attention

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Speaker 2: to trans health in medical clinics. But all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: like my colleague was under attack. They were meant writing

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Speaker 2: the thing, you know, the chancellor, the provost, my colleague

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Speaker 2: actually to go into live in another place for a month.

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Speaker 2: And so in a way, there's something about like what's

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Speaker 2: happening to professors, which I think just puts I don't

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Speaker 2: think we're being silenced, but I do think the stakes

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Speaker 2: are very real right now being an academic in a.

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Speaker 1: Public I mean, I just want to pause for a second,

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Speaker 1: because like you just kind of glossed over the fact

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Speaker 1: that your friend went to go live in a different

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Speaker 1: place for a month. Yeah, because they wanted to live

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Speaker 1: in a different place for a month, or because they

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Speaker 1: felt that where they were living was unsafe, because they

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Speaker 1: were being targeted, Because these are things that I don't

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Speaker 1: want to just kind of rush over or a gloss

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Speaker 1: over that you're changing your physical surroundings for safety.

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Speaker 2: Well some people, so I'll put it all in this

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Speaker 2: huge bucket. I realized this is a massive bucket. And

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Speaker 2: I will say that even when I had remembered the

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Speaker 2: Nazis came. When I gave my talk in twenty nineteen

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Speaker 2: at the Politics and Pros they published my utility bill

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Speaker 2: online and renew my address, and the same thing happened

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Speaker 2: to her, and then she had to go into protection

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Speaker 2: because she was getting all these things. And so partially

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Speaker 2: there is there's all this kind of threat of the

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Speaker 2: right wing going after academics right now. And on one hand,

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Speaker 2: you want to say, you know, to hell with that

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Speaker 2: and burn it all down and all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: And certainly that's obviously I wrote a book Dying of Whiteness.

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Speaker 2: My next book's even going to be more controversial, so

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Speaker 2: it's not like I'm backing down from that fight. But

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Speaker 2: I do think that partially in the back of my

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Speaker 2: mind there is this thing, which is, man, do I

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Speaker 2: want this to be doctored and show up on right

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Speaker 2: wing media or something? And it's very real, right, I'm

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Speaker 2: giving a talk in a month at a major DEI conference.

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Speaker 2: I'm the keynote speaker at a big DEI conference, and

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Speaker 2: I'm already getting like bombarded with a right wing email

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Speaker 2: and right wing you know, this concerned student activist group.

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Speaker 2: So even saying that I'm speaking at a DEI conference

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Speaker 2: right now brings this response. And so that number two

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Speaker 2: is just that there are stakes for people who are

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Speaker 2: public intellectuals right now that are professional but political, social,

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Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff. And then I guess the

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Speaker 2: third thing is colleges are there is this kind of

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Speaker 2: cancel culture blowback, and I mean, colleges are getting more

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Speaker 2: conservative honestly, you know places are colleges are basically saying

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Speaker 2: conservative voices aren't being heard enough. You can see what's

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Speaker 2: happening in the universities in Florida, but it's happening in Tennessee.

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Speaker 2: So there is a pushback about just college.

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Speaker 1: Right. This is what I will say about what is

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Speaker 1: happening and the domino effect out of Florida and it's

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Speaker 1: spreading around the country with regard to conservative voices, is

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Speaker 1: that it is not conservative voices that are being silenced

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Speaker 1: and don't get position on college campuses. It is racism,

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Speaker 1: white supremacy, patriarchy, homophobia, and transphobia that should not have

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Speaker 1: a place in academia. And the fact that there is

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Speaker 1: no there there is no distinction that can be made

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Speaker 1: between what is the right wing fascist Republican movement and

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Speaker 1: hatred that there is, like, there is no there is

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Speaker 1: no place for it in academia. And so when they

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Speaker 1: go off and they say, oh, well, the liberal media

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Speaker 1: or the liberal this, that and the other thing, it's

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Speaker 1: like there is no two guides to transphobia, to racism

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Speaker 1: and to bigotry. And so because they have set up

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Speaker 1: this false dichotomy between those that believe in equity and

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Speaker 1: inclusion of all people and voices and their denial of

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Speaker 1: that fact and using religion as their shield so that

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Speaker 1: they can continue to proselytize their bullshit, is where the

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Speaker 1: problem is. And the fact that folks don't push back

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Speaker 1: in very serious ways, and it is left to students

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Speaker 1: to either not show up or to protest on their

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Speaker 1: campuses for their rights to be educated in the way

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Speaker 1: that they want is where we are and where the

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Speaker 1: Republican Party has wanted to bring this country because education

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Speaker 1: allows there to be an expansion of thought and a

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Speaker 1: creation of empathy that they don't want, because empathy then

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Speaker 1: would find us in a place where we're questioning policies

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Speaker 1: that adversely affect those that are most marginalized.

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Speaker 2: No, I mean, obviously that's you've just described my scholarship

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Speaker 2: for the past twenty years. So of course I totally

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Speaker 2: agree with you. And DEI offices, as you know, are

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Speaker 2: being closed across the country in the aftermath of the

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Speaker 2: Supreme Court horrible decision, and I made a decision, like

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Speaker 2: you know, I'm speaking at tons of DEI conferences going forward,

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Speaker 2: and at the White Frivolege conference and at the People's

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Speaker 2: Conference in Seattle. I've lined my year with conferences where

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Speaker 2: I'm going to be supporting the importance of diversity, and

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Speaker 2: so I'm very public about that. But I and and

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Speaker 2: and you know, I'm it comes at a price, right,

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Speaker 2: which is but the stuff I get, the crazy stuff

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Speaker 2: I get in my email or on Twitter that I

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Speaker 2: kind of it's kind of predicted. You know, there's a

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Speaker 2: there's a professor's watch list, and I'm on it, and

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Speaker 2: it's put out by I think turning point one of

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Speaker 2: these big you know, the one Trump speaks at all time.

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Speaker 2: So there's a lot of people on these a lot

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Speaker 2: of liberal professors. We're all on this professor watch list

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Speaker 2: right now, And it means every time you give a talk,

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Speaker 2: conservatives are coming and taping you and blah blah blah

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Speaker 2: blah blah. So it's just an interesting time enough for me,

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Speaker 2: that is overt, right, that is clear, and I totally

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Speaker 2: support exactly what you just said, which is this is

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Speaker 2: this is the battle for the minds of our nation

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Speaker 2: going forward, right, I mean, are we going to step

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Speaker 2: back from the progress we've made about equity? I mean,

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Speaker 2: when I wrote my book Protest Psychosis, I studied medical

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Speaker 2: journals in the fifties where race wasn't even a category

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Speaker 2: of analysis. Nobody even took race data because they didn't

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Speaker 2: they only did research on white people. So for me,

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Speaker 2: that's the overt part, and that's the battle, that's the

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Speaker 2: battle line. I see that. But then there's more subtle

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Speaker 2: stuff of being on a college campus, like I've had

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Speaker 2: a series of examples of like, you know, we were

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Speaker 2: at a faculty meeting for another department and somebody did

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Speaker 2: a land statement at the beginning of the faculty meeting,

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Speaker 2: and as we were leaving, somebody in the pack, where

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Speaker 2: as we were walking out, said, thankfully, we're not going

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Speaker 2: to have to hear that woke stuff anymore. A professor said,

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Speaker 2: woke staff, And I thought, how do you get off

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Speaker 2: saying woke staff? You know what I mean? Like, it's

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Speaker 2: obviously white professor. And so I guess people felt like, oh,

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Speaker 2: the liberals had gone too far with these land statements

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Speaker 2: and blah blah blah pronouns and all that, and so

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Speaker 2: it's kind of that it's the subtle, everyday policing that's

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Speaker 2: going to happen on college campuses. For me, that's the

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Speaker 2: bigger concern is what happens in the everyday world where

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Speaker 2: people are, where these kind of conservative policing views become

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Speaker 2: the norm, especially in places where they're like look at

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Speaker 2: Florida pushing out a lot of our West Virginia pushing

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Speaker 2: out humanity's faculty, literature faculty, language faculty and replacing them

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Speaker 2: with more more conservative faculty. So it's more that subtle.

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Speaker 2: Remember that book Hitler's Willing Executioners about the Holocaust. It's

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Speaker 2: kind of the everyday stuff that I feel like, And

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Speaker 2: I guess again, This was all brought on for me

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Speaker 2: because of the review, the comment for our conversation where

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Speaker 2: somebody said I was holding back and I said, man,

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Speaker 2: am I holding back now because of because of this climate?

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Speaker 2: And what does that mean?

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Speaker 1: I think that people want to express their frustration anger differently, right.

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Speaker 1: I am somebody that people come to to listen to,

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Speaker 1: because my expression of anger is very outward and is

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Speaker 1: steeped in a lot of passion, because I am genuinely

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Speaker 1: really angry and outdone on a regular basis watching the

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Speaker 1: dismantling of a country that I have hopes for, right

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Speaker 1: and had pride in and wanting wanted as a public

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Speaker 1: servant to make it better. And so it is it's heartbreaking, right,

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Speaker 1: and so my rage comes from that place. I think

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Speaker 1: that for you, as a professor, as you know, a

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Speaker 1: researcher and an analyst, it is really providing the data

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Speaker 1: points and providing the information to back up what it

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Speaker 1: is that some of us you know, yell about, right,

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Speaker 1: And I think that it is important for people to

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Speaker 1: realize that not everyone expresses their emotion of this moment

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Speaker 1: in the same way. But I think to your point,

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Speaker 1: with regard to what we're seeing happen at college campuses,

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Speaker 1: and you know, you can look at I think it

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Speaker 1: is a new school in Florida. I think that that

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Speaker 1: may be the name of it. I'm not one hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: Sure that's right, that's right.

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Speaker 1: That you know, there are students who were coming in

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Speaker 1: for their fourth year, right their their final year, their

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Speaker 1: senior year, and they're leaving and they're transferring. And there's

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Speaker 1: a school in Massachusetts that has opened up their doors

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Speaker 1: particularly to those not only the faculty that have fled

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Speaker 1: because they've lost forty percent of their faculty because of

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Speaker 1: the board of trustees that Ron De Santis has put

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Speaker 1: in place that are about essentially what I will refer

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Speaker 1: to as the dumbing down and indoctrination of America's youth.

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Speaker 1: Because just like the Moms for Liberty, they did not

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Speaker 1: make a misstep by quoting Hitler in their first newsletter

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Speaker 1: that they put out saying that like, if you have

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Speaker 1: the youth, you have the future. That was not a misstep.

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Speaker 1: They were not. That was in an accident. It is

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Speaker 1: the fact that education has always been the ground zero

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Speaker 1: for any movement in this country, whether that movement is

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Speaker 1: backwards or forwards. Because we know that education is power

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Speaker 1: and that's what the right knows. And so they're like,

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Speaker 1: if we can ban critical thought, if we can erase

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Speaker 1: people of color, people with disabilities, queer people from having

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Speaker 1: any place right on our library shelves, then you can

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Speaker 1: continue with the lie of white exceptionalism and no one

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Speaker 1: will come for our privileges.

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Speaker 2: And let me let me just say, there are a

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Speaker 2: million times in our conversations where like I'll have some

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Speaker 2: scattered thought and then you'll say something powerfully and clearly,

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Speaker 2: and I'll be like, man, I wish I could have

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Speaker 2: said that, like Danielle just said it, you know, like

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Speaker 2: you it's not just anger, Like you're a very clear, articulate, forceful,

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Speaker 2: convincing speaker, right, I mean I don't. I don't think

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Speaker 2: it's just like because I'm in academia, I got to

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Speaker 2: be like repressed white guy in a box or something

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Speaker 2: like that, you know, Like you know what I mean, Like,

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Speaker 2: I think I think it's I think it's I think

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Speaker 2: it's I think it's incredible, and I think it's important.

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Speaker 2: I think it's needed. And and the other part, though,

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Speaker 2: is there's pressure on academics right now. I just want

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Speaker 2: people to realize that, and I'm not asking for sympathy

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Speaker 2: or anything like that, but like Trump, his main platform

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Speaker 2: is if I win, I'm not just going after universities.

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Speaker 2: I'm going after the crediting boards. And and then it's like,

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Speaker 2: you know, you're going to see a lot of that,

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Speaker 2: But there's also a lot of subtle stuff happening. I mean,

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Speaker 2: University Wisconsin just opened a gun study center that is

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Speaker 2: funded by the gun industry, and so there's going to

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Speaker 2: be a lot of gun research that is showing the

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Speaker 2: benefits of carrying a weapon and stuff like that. Like

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Speaker 2: universities are becoming you know, playing grounds, battlegrounds for what

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Speaker 2: is an idea? What is a fact? What is it fact?

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Speaker 2: We've had that played out in the media a lot,

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Speaker 2: and I think that universities are going to be the

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Speaker 2: next place. On one hand, that kind of I mean

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Speaker 2: that cancel culture stuff hopefully is dying down. But I

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Speaker 2: just think this question of like what is academic knowledge,

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Speaker 2: what certifies it, what it credits it, how do we

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Speaker 2: validate it? It really will matter who wins the presidential

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Speaker 2: election for the future of universities. And so if you

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Speaker 2: hear academics like me kind of hedging our bets a

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Speaker 2: little bit. It's just that we're under a lot of

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Speaker 2: you know, there's a lot of push and pull right now,

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Speaker 2: I would say, and it makes the work of standing

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Speaker 2: up for inequity even more important. Right, this is the

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Speaker 2: time where the people who care step to the front

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Speaker 2: of the line. And and and I hope that that's

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Speaker 2: what I'm doing. But it's just again, this message made

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Speaker 2: me think, like my holding back because of this moment.

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Speaker 1: Everything that you're saying is how fascism and authoritarianism works, right,

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Speaker 1: it is. It is Martin Neam Mohler's poem. First they

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Speaker 1: come for right. First they come for the politicians and

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Speaker 1: the activists and those that are outspoken, right. Then they

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Speaker 1: come for the professors and the academics and the thinkers right,

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Speaker 1: and the innovators and the change makers, and then they

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Speaker 1: come for everybody else. So if you can control how

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Speaker 1: people think and the information that they receive, you can

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Speaker 1: control them. And so they're they're not doing this under

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Speaker 1: the cloak of darkness. They are doing it in broad daylight.

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Speaker 1: And for everyone you know, folks that listen to this show,

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Speaker 1: they are one hundred percent woke. But I say to them,

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Speaker 1: all the time, share the messages, share the episodes, push

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Speaker 1: it out to those that are on the fence, to

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Speaker 1: those that say to you and shrug, oh, this can't

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Speaker 1: happen here, and tell them that it is happening right,

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Speaker 1: like we're watching this. The other day, I interviewed on

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Speaker 1: my other show, The New Abnormal, I interviewed Ruth ben Guillott, right,

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Speaker 1: the author of Strong Men, and I said, you know, Ruth,

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Speaker 1: we follow each other on social media, and I, you know,

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Speaker 1: literally will retweet everything that you put out. You study,

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Speaker 1: you know, Europe, You've studied European fascism and in Italy

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Speaker 1: and Mussolini, and her book strong Men From Mussolini to

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Speaker 1: the Present came out in twenty twenty as kind of

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Speaker 1: a precursor to where we are, and she goes, there

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Speaker 1: isn't a thing that is happening that doesn't mirror what

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Speaker 1: happened in Europe. She's like, there is nothing that I

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Speaker 1: can point to you to say, well, it may not happen.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm like, damn, Ruth's.

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Speaker 2: Except the methods are better. They just had Lenny Rievensnall

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Speaker 2: and we've got like, you know, Elon Muskin, Starlink and

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Speaker 2: everything else. So no, it's it's a it's a it's

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Speaker 2: a moment. It really is a moment, and I'm in

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Speaker 2: the middle of it, right. I mean, my next book

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Speaker 2: is going to be my next book is going to

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Speaker 2: show how a naked white mass shooter is an embodiment

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Speaker 2: of the values of white America. Like it's not like

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Speaker 2: I'm back and down. But I would also say, I'm

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Speaker 2: I'm just aware now of this in a way I

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Speaker 2: haven't always been.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that it's you know, I think

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Speaker 1: it's important. I'm excited for your new book, which you

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Speaker 1: said what it comes out in January, right, January thirtieth,

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Speaker 1: so it'll it'll I mean, it'll be out at the

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Speaker 1: top of the year. So I can't wait for us

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Speaker 1: to really be able to go in depth and have

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Speaker 1: a conversation about it. But you know, I guess my

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Speaker 1: recommendation and I'll ask you, Jonathan as well. My recommendation

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Speaker 1: to folks, whether or not you have you know, family members,

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Speaker 1: kids that are in you know, the university and college systems,

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Speaker 1: is that these are what the education is, what fundamentally

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Speaker 1: is the foundation of our democracy. So whether or not,

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Speaker 1: like you need to be invested in what is happening,

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Speaker 1: whether or not you have immediate you know, a relationship

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Speaker 1: to said universities or K through twelve schools because you

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Speaker 1: don't have kids like this is going to and is

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Speaker 1: affecting us all in how we're able to speak, you know, openly.

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Speaker 1: And I just will remind folks that when I went

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Speaker 1: to in twenty fifteen, when I traveled to Israel and

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Speaker 1: Palestine and came back to the United States, I came

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Speaker 1: back with PTSD because I was there and I recognized

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Speaker 1: that all of a sudden, I wasn't able to sit

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Speaker 1: down at dinners and have free conversation about like my

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Speaker 1: thoughts on what was happening over you know, over a

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Speaker 1: dinner because of who might be listening, right and how

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Speaker 1: that may affect like the travel moving forward and where

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Speaker 1: we were going and what we were doing. And I

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Speaker 1: became very aware and very scared of my movements. And

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Speaker 1: so you know, when we and I came back to

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Speaker 1: the United States and I said, oh my god, this

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Speaker 1: can happen here, right And this was this was pre

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Speaker 1: Trump and then the year following would be the escalator.

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Speaker 1: So it is it is, it is wild, you know,

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Speaker 1: where we are, and I think that it's important for

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Speaker 1: folks to, you know, to to recognize that and recognize

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Speaker 1: its importance to you. So last thoughts to you, Jonathan.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just don't take anything for granted. I mean, it's

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Speaker 2: not like it's a false binary that universities are liberal

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Speaker 2: and politics are conservative. Universities are also very conservative. There

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Speaker 2: are the boards of many universities are very conservative. The

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Speaker 2: endowment managers are conservative, and university it's not like universities.

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Speaker 2: Universities follow, you know, the student demand in a certain

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Speaker 2: kind of way, and so the universities are complicated. They're

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Speaker 2: not just one thing. And so the liberties people take

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Speaker 2: for granted on universities of being able to say whatever

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Speaker 2: they want, they're They're not just in danger because of

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Speaker 2: external things. They're in danger because universities follow markets, right,

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Speaker 2: They follow the politics and the markets, and so people

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Speaker 2: really need to speak up on campuses about the importance

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Speaker 2: of free speech on campuses, and not just students but parents, supporters, alumnis.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, as always, my friend, Jonathan Matzel, thank you for

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Speaker 1: a thoughtful and engaging conversation, and friends who are listening,

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00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: keep setting us the tweets and the dms and the comments.

430
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: It is really helpful and we do think on it,

431
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: so we appreciate you all as well. That is it

432
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: for me today, dear friends on Woke af AS always,

433
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: Power to the people and to all the people. Power,

434
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: get woke and stay woke as fuck.