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Speaker 2: You take a deep breath and then continue speaking. The
Speaker 2: reason people aren't comfortable with the pause is because they
Speaker 2: don't know what the pause is for. Right The pause
Speaker 2: allows people to process what you're saying. Think about it now, listeners.
Speaker 2: As you're listening to that, the moment I paused, you
Speaker 2: had a moment to process the things that I was saying.
Speaker 2: Do you want to be more charismatic communication? There are
Speaker 2: two fundamental areas. Didn't that just seem really important? I
Speaker 2: was so bad at interactions with human beings. There was
Speaker 2: just a period of my life where I didn't understand
Speaker 2: what anybody was saying to me.
Speaker 1: You're saying that everyone can go from being a shy,
Speaker 1: unconfident speaker to being a prolific speaker.
Speaker 2: Like yourself, being a confident communicator. That's just another series
Speaker 2: of behaviors that you can practice. So when people say, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm shy, I always say to them, that's because you've
Speaker 2: been practicing the shy behaviors for the last fifteen, twenty
Speaker 2: thirty forty years.
Speaker 1: What are the top three things the practical problems that
Speaker 1: people are coming to solve when they come to you.
Speaker 2: The number one health and well.
Speaker 1: In the podcast Jay Sheety Jay Shety then Jiang is
Speaker 1: an award winning entrepreneur, keynote speaker, podcast host, and communication
Speaker 1: coach who specializes in helping people master the art of
Speaker 1: confidently speaking. With Vin's charisma and simple techniques, he transforms
Speaker 1: communication training into an engaging and unforgettable experience. Over the
Speaker 1: past decade, Vin has built a global audience, inspiring millions
Speaker 1: through social media and live events. Vin teaches individuals the
Speaker 1: tools to amplify their voice, command attension and break through
Speaker 1: communication barriers. Welcome to the show, Vinjiang Vin. It's so
Speaker 1: good to see you finally, Man. I can't believe it's
Speaker 1: taken us this long to get together. Have been a
Speaker 1: fan for a very very long time.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Man, it's kind of sur real sitting
Speaker 2: on your set.
Speaker 1: Ah, thank you, Man. I love the way you do
Speaker 1: what you do. I love the effortless nurse. I love
Speaker 1: the confidence you're giving people, the empowering ability you have
Speaker 1: to make people feel comfortable in their own skin, in
Speaker 1: their own voice. And I want to start by just
Speaker 1: asking you, like, what made you commit your life to
Speaker 1: helping people find their voice and find their confidence.
Speaker 2: I always feel like the thing we end up doing
Speaker 2: in life tends to be something that had a massive
Speaker 2: impact on us when we were younger. I don't know
Speaker 2: if you find the same to be true, But for me,
Speaker 2: man Jay, when I was young, I was such a
Speaker 2: bad communicator. I was so bad at interactions with human beings.
Speaker 2: And the reason for that is because English is my
Speaker 2: third language. So I grew up first learning a Chinese dialect,
Speaker 2: or did you, And then I learned Vietnamese and then
Speaker 2: I learned English. So there was just a period of
Speaker 2: my life where I didn't understand what anybody was saying
Speaker 2: to me, and I couldn't communicate with other people. So
Speaker 2: I just went through a pit of life where I
Speaker 2: felt really isolated. I didn't realize that I was doing
Speaker 2: it in my career, but as I learned how to
Speaker 2: communicate more effectively, became a professional speaker, all of this,
Speaker 2: I went, oh wow, now I have this skill that
Speaker 2: I can teach other people. So the moment I just
Speaker 2: tried teaching it, I felt fulfillment and I never really
Speaker 2: felt that level of fulfillment before. That's when I decided,
Speaker 2: oh wow, it's cool to do it yourself. It's even
Speaker 2: cooler to help other people do it. And then that's
Speaker 2: kind of when I went all in with it and
Speaker 2: found so much fulfillment. And again, I'm sure you get
Speaker 2: this all the time, but it's the comments that emails
Speaker 2: you get and you're, oh, wow, I'm doing something that matters.
Speaker 2: Was before I was a magician. So I did that
Speaker 2: for years, and it feels weird to say it because
Speaker 2: I don't want to talk down on what magicians do,
Speaker 2: not at all.
Speaker 1: It's just for me.
Speaker 2: The applause at times when I was doing magic, it
Speaker 2: felt really empty to me because I did it for
Speaker 2: so long and it started to feel a little bit empty.
Speaker 2: And then when I started teaching public speaking and communication skills,
Speaker 2: it felt full, It felt better, it felt more fulfilling.
Speaker 1: From the way you're talking about it, you're saying that
Speaker 1: everyone can go from being a shy, insecure, unconfident speaker
Speaker 1: to being a prolific speaker like yourself.
Speaker 2: Yes, because it's all just a series of behaviors. Everything
Speaker 2: you and I are doing right now, everything you see
Speaker 2: a great community to do on stage, everything you see
Speaker 2: a great creator do on video, it's just a series
Speaker 2: of behaviors. The way you're moving your mouth, the way
Speaker 2: you're manipulating airflow, the way you're moving your hands. It's
Speaker 2: all just behaviors. So when people say, oh, I'm shy,
Speaker 2: I always say to them, Oh, that's because you've been
Speaker 2: practicing the shy behaviors for the last fifteen twenty thirty
Speaker 2: forty years. Being a confident communicator. That's just another series
Speaker 2: of behaviors that you can practice. And if you practice
Speaker 2: that for ten twenty thirty, you'd be a confident communicator. Right.
Speaker 2: So it's just behaviors that we get attached to because
Speaker 2: it becomes a part of our identity. And then I
Speaker 2: think when it becomes a part of our identity, all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, now we feel like we're stuck, but
Speaker 2: you're not. And then there's this really interesting concept. I
Speaker 2: don't know if you've come across it before, where it's
Speaker 2: where does your voice come from? Where do you get
Speaker 2: your voice from? You learn how to communicate based on
Speaker 2: the people you're inspired by when you were young, and
Speaker 2: you just learn behaviors from them. Like I'm watching my
Speaker 2: daughter now, my daughter Melody, she's one, and I can
Speaker 2: see her watch us and then start to mimic the
Speaker 2: things we do. Right, all right, My wife the other
Speaker 2: day met her spaghetti. She wouldn't eat it. So my
Speaker 2: wife was furious. Your so upset. She's like, ah, you're
Speaker 2: not eating it. And then she goes, ah, she does
Speaker 2: the exact same thing. Right. And then my son he
Speaker 2: picks up the way I speak beause he's seven. Now
Speaker 2: I notice he has certain nuances that I have. So again,
Speaker 2: the voice you currently have, people think, oh, that's my
Speaker 2: natural voice. No, no, it's not your natural voice. You
Speaker 2: lost your natural voice when you were two three years old, right,
Speaker 2: Whereas the voice you have now, that's your habitual voice.
Speaker 2: It's just a series of habits. And the thing that
Speaker 2: I find the first most fascinating is that when the
Speaker 2: habits move from your conscious mind and it goes into
Speaker 2: your subconscious mind, now you feel it's a part of you,
Speaker 2: and now you're stuck with it. But in the beginning
Speaker 2: of your life you have to consciously think, oh, oh,
Speaker 2: Dad speaks really softly, so I'm going to speak really softly.
Speaker 2: But the moment you do that for two three years,
Speaker 2: now it moves into your subconscious mind and then you go, oh, no,
Speaker 2: that's me. No, No, it's still just a series of behaviors.
Speaker 2: That's all that it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've always loved that model of unconscious incompetence. Yea
Speaker 1: to unconscious competence and for anyone who doesn't know it,
Speaker 1: four stages, the four stages. The bottom stage is unconscious incompetence.
Speaker 1: When you are unconscious of your incompetence, you have no
Speaker 1: idea what you're doing wrong. You probably don't know that.
Speaker 1: You our try and fill every pause, say like at
Speaker 1: the end of every sentence, whatever it may be. And
Speaker 1: we all have an unconscious incompetence, especially in the way
Speaker 1: we speak, and that's when we have this mindset that
Speaker 1: you're saying, where we think it's our voice, but actually
Speaker 1: it's just practice behaviors. And then above from that, which
Speaker 1: is what I love. This is what you do so
Speaker 1: phenomenally well when you're with your audiences, is conscious incompetence.
Speaker 1: You're helping people become aware of how our body language,
Speaker 1: our voice, our tonality affects us. And then above that
Speaker 1: for everyone who doesn't know the model is conscious competence correct,
Speaker 1: where now you know why you move your hand that
Speaker 1: way and why you choose to lower your voice or
Speaker 1: lower your pitch or whatever it may be.
Speaker 2: And that's kind of a frustrating part for people to
Speaker 2: be at stage three, right because they go, I know it,
Speaker 2: but I mean, I still have to think about it.
Speaker 2: So when they do it, it's really interest because I
Speaker 2: see my shoes do this all the time where they
Speaker 2: go hello, everybody, it's great to be here, and then
Speaker 2: they go, vinn this feels so fake, it feels so phony.
Speaker 2: But I'm like, you have to go through that stage
Speaker 2: to get to stage four, which is unconscious competence, which
Speaker 2: is my story yes, and a lot of people aren't
Speaker 2: willing to push through that because they go, no, it
Speaker 2: doesn't feel natural, so that means it's not right.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about that.
Speaker 2: That's really yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the biggest challenges because I
Speaker 1: think we're both sitting here as people who've trained, worked
Speaker 1: hard at our craft, worked hard at our art, and
Speaker 1: now at this point it does feel like unconscious competence.
Speaker 1: But a lot of people say, well, no, but if
Speaker 1: you had to learn it, then it's fake. It's un
Speaker 1: it's not really phony, it's phony. But what's the difference
Speaker 1: between developing a skill versus faking it? Like, what's the difference.
Speaker 2: I love your definition of home where you say home
Speaker 2: is the familiar, right, and to me, the way you
Speaker 2: currently communicate you have a home, and that is because
Speaker 2: those behaviors you've been repeating for the last ten, twenty
Speaker 2: thirty years, right, So that feels like home to you.
Speaker 2: Whereas what people don't realize is and I don't need
Speaker 2: to take a long explanation for them. I do think
Speaker 2: I think it's important. When you used to ask me
Speaker 2: what my home was when I was young, I would
Speaker 2: say my suburb, So I'd say Salisbury Downs. Then as
Speaker 2: I got older, I started to explore my city, I'll
Speaker 2: say Adelaide is my home. South Australia, right, And then
Speaker 2: as I explored more of us my state, then I
Speaker 2: would say it South Australia is my home. Then I
Speaker 2: split more of Australia. Australia is my home. Now I've
Speaker 2: lived in LA and southern California, like, oh, I kind
Speaker 2: of feel like America is my home too. And then
Speaker 2: as I travel more of the world, I go, oh,
Speaker 2: the world is my home. The same thing with your
Speaker 2: communication skills. You have access to this incredible instrument, but
Speaker 2: your home is such a small part of that instrument.
Speaker 2: Say a piano has eighty eight keys right right now,
Speaker 2: Home to you is five keys because you're only familiar
Speaker 2: with those five keys. But as you start to realize
Speaker 2: you have access to this incredible instrument, you start to
Speaker 2: play the other keys. Home becomes the entire piano. Whereas
Speaker 2: the struggle that people have is the moment they do
Speaker 2: something that they're unfamiliar with. Instead of labeling it as unfamiliar,
Speaker 2: they label it as fake and phony. And what happens
Speaker 2: the moment you do that you stop exploring your instrument,
Speaker 2: and now you are limited to the five keys you've
Speaker 2: been playing with your entire life. And I think there's
Speaker 2: an over attachment to the familiar which keeps us the same.
Speaker 2: Because when you think about this, most people change the
Speaker 2: way they dress, they change their glasses, they change their house,
Speaker 2: they change their car, but they never change the way
Speaker 2: they talk. They never change the way they communicate because
Speaker 2: we are way too attached to the familiar. And I
Speaker 2: say to my students this all the time. Don't be
Speaker 2: so attached to who you are and the present. You
Speaker 2: don't give the future version of your chance. There's a
Speaker 2: future version of you where the world is home. There's
Speaker 2: a future version of you where you can play all
Speaker 2: ata keys.
Speaker 1: I love that concept of we change our hair, we
Speaker 1: change our glasses, change our clothes, but we don't change
Speaker 1: the way we communicate. And I was going to ask you,
Speaker 1: when you have so many people coming to see you speak,
Speaker 1: what are the top three things the practical problems that
Speaker 1: people are coming to solve when they come to you.
Speaker 1: So when someone comes and says, vin, I need your help, Yeah,
Speaker 1: what are they trying to solve in their life? The
Speaker 1: top three things that you hear.
Speaker 2: First thing would be they want to get from stage
Speaker 2: one unconscious incompetence to like, you've made me aware of
Speaker 2: one thing, how can I start to become aware of
Speaker 2: more things? So again self awareness. So first thing they
Speaker 2: go is, how can I become more self aware? I've
Speaker 2: now been I'm awake now to the problem of my communication.
Speaker 2: How can I begin that journey and become more aware?
Speaker 2: And when they ask me that question, then I share
Speaker 2: with them a very simple technique. And a very simple
Speaker 2: technique that I share with them is record and review.
Speaker 2: So the only way to become more aware is if
Speaker 2: you see yourself. And most people hate watching themselves on video.
Speaker 2: Most people hate listening to themselves on audio, So that
Speaker 2: means they've been going through their entire life avoiding the
Speaker 2: two most critical things you need to develop self awareness
Speaker 2: with your communication, and they hate this process. So the
Speaker 2: process is record a video of you speaking for five minutes, right,
Speaker 2: and then when you review and reflect on that video,
Speaker 2: leave it for a day so you're less critical of yourself.
Speaker 2: And once you've left it for a day, the first
Speaker 2: time you grab your phone to review the video, put
Speaker 2: it on mute, and then just look at yourself. And
Speaker 2: then as you're looking yourself, take notes. What am I
Speaker 2: doing with my hands? How am I facial expressions? What
Speaker 2: am I doing with my legs? How am I moving?
Speaker 2: Am I? Do I have any visual ticks? So you
Speaker 2: take a whole bunch of notes. That's the beginning process
Speaker 2: of self awareness. Then after that, turn the volume up.
Speaker 2: Just listen to yourself. Now turn the phone around, play,
Speaker 2: just listen, and as you're listening, now listen to the
Speaker 2: vocal qualities. What do you like about your voice? What
Speaker 2: don't you like? What can you hear? How's your rate
Speaker 2: of speech? How's your volume? What's your melody like? Do
Speaker 2: you hear the passion? If you're passionate about something, you'll
Speaker 2: take so many notes when you do this, What are
Speaker 2: you feel of words? Non words? Right? You get all
Speaker 2: of that down. Then the last step is get it transcribed.
Speaker 2: So once you transcribe it, now you can see the
Speaker 2: way you communicate in a completely different perspective. You might
Speaker 2: notice you speak in circles. I repeated the same thing
Speaker 2: four times? What am I doing? Right? And you'll see
Speaker 2: different things. If you just go through that process once,
Speaker 2: you'll get a list of five to ten things that's
Speaker 2: how you begin your journey of self awareness. Yet people
Speaker 2: will resist that because it's too uncomfortable. They will record it,
Speaker 2: but they won't watch it. But the ones that do
Speaker 2: jay I immediately get a DM after shock. I can't
Speaker 2: believe I do X. And it's crazy because I think
Speaker 2: of one of my students right now where he said,
Speaker 2: for six years, I've been held back in my career
Speaker 2: because my managers and my leaders say that I lack clarity,
Speaker 2: I lack authority, and I lack confidence. And he goes
Speaker 2: and they give me this feedback, yet they don't tell
Speaker 2: me what I need to improve. And you know what
Speaker 2: I realized been through doing this record a review process.
Speaker 2: The one thing that has robbed me of six years
Speaker 2: of progress is my uming and ring. I can't believe
Speaker 2: Umming and Ring has held me back. And he was
Speaker 2: so frustrated, and I remember I had to tell him, I, look,
Speaker 2: that's I get your frustration, but at least didn't hold
Speaker 2: you back for twenty years. And you realize it now.
Speaker 2: But something simple as Umming and r Ring held him
Speaker 2: back for that long and destroyed his perception of being
Speaker 2: a great leader. It's kind of crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I wanted to get to is that's
Speaker 1: the problem I feel. Someone may see your work and
Speaker 1: they'll say, well, I don't want to be a public speaker.
Speaker 1: That's right, that's not the point. The point is there's
Speaker 1: a promotion that you're not getting because you don't have authority,
Speaker 1: or the challenge is you're not able to ask out
Speaker 1: the person on a date that you really want to
Speaker 1: take out on a date, like you don't feel that confidence,
Speaker 1: Or there's the challenge of you're in a team meeting
Speaker 1: and you feel like your voice is never heard. People
Speaker 1: always overlook your opinion, they don't hear you. What are
Speaker 1: some of those stories that you've heard of people that
Speaker 1: have had those types of challenges that are coming to
Speaker 1: you and saying exactly like the one you just told us.
Speaker 1: They're like, oh, Vin, this is actually solving a daily
Speaker 1: issue for me.
Speaker 2: The big one people keep interrupting me. Not only do
Speaker 2: they not listen to my ideas, they interrupt me and
Speaker 2: then my turn is gone now And the idea that
Speaker 2: I was going to share was one that was going
Speaker 2: to be able to change the course of the meeting.
Speaker 2: But because they interrupted me, now I'm invisible, and that
Speaker 2: keeps happening to me. And then when they ask me,
Speaker 2: they go, why do other people interrupt me? Why does
Speaker 2: it happen? The reason is something that I don't think
Speaker 2: you'd expect, because it comes down to vocal presence and
Speaker 2: physical presence. And when I see them in the situations
Speaker 2: where people interrupt them, the reason is because their vocal
Speaker 2: presence is low and their physical presence is low. So,
Speaker 2: for example, everyone's sitting around a meeting table, and again
Speaker 2: I go, look, send me an example right where you're
Speaker 2: doing a big zoom meeting and you're allowed to send
Speaker 2: me this. Send it to me. Let me see what's happening.
Speaker 2: And when you see it, everyone's sitting down. And then
Speaker 2: the way she would bring up the question, It was
Speaker 2: a woman who asked me this, and I remember the
Speaker 2: way she'd ask it is very low volume. So look,
Speaker 2: I've just got a quick idea i'd love to share
Speaker 2: with you all very small body language. And if I
Speaker 2: was talking to you like this right now, it is
Speaker 2: so easy for you to interrupt this version of me,
Speaker 2: So easy. Whereas imagine instead I said, take control of
Speaker 2: this stand stand. Oh, I feel a little bit weird.
Speaker 2: We'll just prime the reason, just go, look, I've been
Speaker 2: sitting all day. Do you mind if I stand for
Speaker 2: my part of the presentation? Oh great, all right, then
Speaker 2: you just stand. If you stand, now, all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: you're in a position of more authority, and if you
Speaker 2: use larger body language, stronger volume, the version of me
Speaker 2: right now, this version is infinitely more difficult for you
Speaker 2: to interrupt. Absolutely, it's infinitely more difficult because you've got
Speaker 2: more authority, you've got more credibility. But again because a
Speaker 2: lot of people in those situations fall victim to a
Speaker 2: lower default volume, a slower default rate of speech, smaller
Speaker 2: body language, and all of a sudden people interrupt.
Speaker 1: Them, absolutely, walk over them, yes, completely ignored.
Speaker 2: So I say, I often said to my students, the
Speaker 2: reason people interrupt you is because you're easy to interrupt.
Speaker 2: Create a bit of that friction, right, create a little
Speaker 2: bit of that authority. And then again they try it.
Speaker 2: It feels a little bit again they say fake and phony,
Speaker 2: but I'm like, reframe it, reframe it. It's just unfamiliar.
Speaker 2: And then they started to do it, they go, oh,
Speaker 2: it felt really unfamiliar. Then, but the moment they do it,
Speaker 2: they go, wow, people like just from standing alone viving.
Speaker 2: I feel like I stood. I just had a bit
Speaker 2: of volume. I didn't even use my body language, but
Speaker 2: already people are not interrupting me. So again, it just
Speaker 2: goes to show that how you use your instrument and
Speaker 2: your voice lets other people know how they can treat you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's such a great point. It's so true, and
Speaker 1: I hope everyone who's listening and watching right now, I
Speaker 1: want you to rewind back right, go backwards the last
Speaker 1: five minutes everything that then said, from the point of
Speaker 1: self awareness through to just now, and practice it in
Speaker 1: your next meeting. Right listen to yourself in a meeting,
Speaker 1: even record yourself while you're in a meeting as you
Speaker 1: are normally, as you are right now, and then go
Speaker 1: listen back to that and then apply what Vinver's saying.
Speaker 1: Because it's so interesting to me how daily our communication
Speaker 1: is impacting our lives and we think we're not getting
Speaker 1: promoted because we're not networking and we're not technically brilliant,
Speaker 1: technically gray or whatever it may be. Or maybe you're
Speaker 1: sitting there going chair, I'm actually one of the best
Speaker 1: in the company when it comes to XYZ. But now
Speaker 1: I realize that it's my ability to coach people guide
Speaker 1: people because I have that influence. I wanted to ask you,
Speaker 1: how does an introvert get the courage to do what
Speaker 1: you just said, because I'm sure there's a lot of
Speaker 1: people listening to right now they're introverted naturally. I mean,
Speaker 1: do you even believe in introverts or is that also
Speaker 1: a practice behavior?
Speaker 2: Well, there definitely is a difference, obviously. I ask my
Speaker 2: vocal teacher the same thing. I said, what's the difference
Speaker 2: between an introvert extrovert? And she goes, the key thing
Speaker 2: is just how they get energy? Are you introverted or
Speaker 2: you extroverted? I mean, I know I'm very extroverted. I
Speaker 2: get energy from being around people. But she goes, introverts
Speaker 2: they lose energy once they're around people. So she goes, look,
Speaker 2: that's the key difference. Now, let me ask you a question.
Speaker 2: A pianist, if they're an extrovert, would they play differently
Speaker 2: to an introvert. I'd had to think about the for
Speaker 2: all because I thought, surely this is a trick question.
Speaker 2: And I said yes, and she goes, no, you're an idiot,
Speaker 2: there's no difference. You will not be able to tell
Speaker 2: who it is an introvert and who is an extrovert.
Speaker 2: If you listen to a pianist, great music is great music.
Speaker 2: Your voice is an instrument. Great music is great music,
Speaker 2: she goes. The only difference is introverts have to be
Speaker 2: highly strategic with when they play their instrument. Extroverts can
Speaker 2: play their instrument all day. It's more difficult for an
Speaker 2: introvert because you have to be highly selective when you
Speaker 2: play your instrument. It's an excuse that I think some
Speaker 2: of my friends who are introverted used to give and
Speaker 2: where they say, oh, because I'm introvert, I'm not going
Speaker 2: to play my instrument well at all. And as I no, no, no,
Speaker 2: you still have energy. You just have to use it
Speaker 2: much more strategically, and you have to be highly aware
Speaker 2: of how you can rejuvenate that energy. Yes, you have
Speaker 2: to very conscious. It's harder for introverts. It is harder
Speaker 2: for interrovit to acknowledge that. However, if you've got great
Speaker 2: ways to about to rejuvenate your energy, and you have
Speaker 2: good menu items like good things you can go and
Speaker 2: stack on and recreate some of that energy and rejuvenate,
Speaker 2: then you still have to learn how to play your
Speaker 2: instrument well, otherwise you will become that person that And again,
Speaker 2: the majority of my students are the person you described.
Speaker 2: It's the I'm ways smarter than John, I'm way smarter
Speaker 2: than Sarah. But why did they get the promotion? Why
Speaker 2: didn't I get it? Well, it's because if you are
Speaker 2: technically ten out of ten, but your communication skills are
Speaker 2: a three out of ten. Do you think your organization
Speaker 2: perceives you to be a ten out of ten or
Speaker 2: a three out of ten? You are only as good
Speaker 2: as you can communicate. So as you improve your communication skills,
Speaker 2: you start to shine your light more brightly in the world.
Speaker 2: Whereas a lot of my students tend to think, oh,
Speaker 2: but it's my boss's responsibility to see the brilliance in me. No, no,
Speaker 2: it's not. It's your responsibility to shine brightly, not their responsibility.
Speaker 2: So when you take it upon yourself, things change.
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Speaker 1: get back to the episode. There's such a need for
Speaker 1: ownership and accountability for our lives because, like you said,
Speaker 1: and I for a long time believed that someone was
Speaker 1: going to come and spot my talent and see it
Speaker 1: and nurture it and help me build up. And I
Speaker 1: realized no one was coming and that no one could
Speaker 1: see it because they were too busy in their own lives.
Speaker 1: It's not that they were bad people, or they were bitter,
Speaker 1: or they were wrong, or they were not able to
Speaker 1: spot talent. Everyone was busy. People were just busy in
Speaker 1: their day today. They don't have time to spot your
Speaker 1: skill and your talent and nurture it. If someone's listening
Speaker 1: to this right now and they're saying, Vin, I love
Speaker 1: what you just said. I'm an introvert. I agree with you.
Speaker 1: There are times when I can and can't perform or
Speaker 1: can't bring it out. How do I hold energy? How
Speaker 1: do I create energy? If I have a meeting coming
Speaker 1: up today, if I'm going to be on a zoom
Speaker 1: call today, what do I do in order to make
Speaker 1: sure I'm not my best because right now I'm going
Speaker 1: from meeting to meeting to meeting to meeting, zoom call
Speaker 1: to zoom call. I'm just exhausted.
Speaker 2: First thing is you have to learn how to protect
Speaker 2: your energy. For example, yesterday I was doing a couple
Speaker 2: of different podcasts while I'm here in La and I
Speaker 2: didn't leave the hotel room. The podcast wasn't n til four.
Speaker 2: I didn't leave the hotel room at all, to the
Speaker 2: point where my videographer freaked out and just knocked on
Speaker 2: my door and said, are you okay? Are you still
Speaker 2: all right? Are right? I'm like, yeah, I'm conserving my energy.
Speaker 2: I'm a fairly high energy person, so I have to
Speaker 2: conserve my energy. So all morning is again I didn't
Speaker 2: talk to anyone this morning. I had to waite to
Speaker 2: talk to you. Because if you don't conserve your energy
Speaker 2: and you just give it all the time everywhere, then
Speaker 2: you won't have any So that's number one got to conced. Yeah, right,
Speaker 2: And then the second thing is have go to I
Speaker 2: call them menu items. Have some menu items that you
Speaker 2: can quickly reach for. So one that I love is
Speaker 2: whim off the breathing technique, right, the guided bubble breath.
Speaker 2: Two cycles of that before a meeting. My brain is
Speaker 2: auction ender. My body feels good, I feel like I
Speaker 2: just I just feel revitalized.
Speaker 1: Can you break the bat down for us.
Speaker 2: Just so if people don't know YouTube, but it's it's
Speaker 2: thirty deep breaths in and out, So thirty of that,
Speaker 2: and then after that, at the end of the thirtieth
Speaker 2: one you breathe out and then hold your breath. And
Speaker 2: you'll be shocked how long you can hold your breath for.
Speaker 2: You'll be shocked. The first time I did this, I
Speaker 2: couldn't believe I could hold it for a minute and
Speaker 2: a half two minutes. I thought I was going to die.
Speaker 2: I thought I was dyeing. And then at the end
Speaker 2: of you holding your breath for a minute or so
Speaker 2: as long as you can. After that, just take a
Speaker 2: deep breath in, hold for fifteen seconds and release. And
Speaker 2: that breathing technique alone has energized me, even when I
Speaker 2: am doing zoom calls at three am in the morning
Speaker 2: because I work with some US clients, it just gets me.
Speaker 2: Three cycles that are two cycles that incredible. I was not
Speaker 2: a believer in that at all when I first I
Speaker 2: was like, yeah, surely that's not gonna way what breathing.
Speaker 2: I do that every day, change my life. My go
Speaker 2: to technique to energize myself. The next one to me
Speaker 2: is a snack, something healthy. I love blueberries, raspberries with
Speaker 2: a little bit of cream. Oh man, a light meal,
Speaker 2: I love it. Right, And then favorite beverage, my go
Speaker 2: to his coffee. I don't know, that's what I feel like.
Speaker 2: Some people are gonna tell me it's gonna kill me,
Speaker 2: but I love it. So have your own go to yeah, right,
Speaker 2: have your routine a routine. Yeah, I have a playlist
Speaker 2: of videos that crack me out. I don't know if
Speaker 2: you have you seen videos that made you last?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Save them? Yeah, save them because they're patching put in
Speaker 2: a mood. I'll give you one. Last one for me
Speaker 2: is again, I've just got so many things out of
Speaker 2: my menu.
Speaker 1: Are no. I love it.
Speaker 2: I also love orchestral war music. Okay, so like Hans
Speaker 2: Zimmer esque, Yes, I love. And if you're listening to
Speaker 2: Interstellar Hans Zimmer while you're doing whim half as you
Speaker 2: take a sip of coffee, oh man, I'm gonna try that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to give that.
Speaker 2: It's an intoxicating mix.
Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah, my routine is a lot more simple,
Speaker 1: but I love no. But you're right, everyone needs one.
Speaker 1: I went on my world tour two years ago now.
Speaker 1: We did forty cities across three to four months around
Speaker 1: the world. Got to come to Australia, a place that
Speaker 1: I absolutely loved. It was my first time there. I
Speaker 1: didn't get to come to Adelaide. I hope I do
Speaker 1: next time, by the way, Yeah, oh no, please don't be.
Speaker 1: We did Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, and honestly, there was something
Speaker 1: about the Australian people that stuck with me. I was
Speaker 1: telling you this a bit earlier. There was this banter back,
Speaker 1: which I loved. I would banter would be on stage.
Speaker 1: I'd you know, little quips and things, and they'd come
Speaker 1: back at it and I loved it. And the other
Speaker 1: thing was everyone was so grateful. Everyone would just say
Speaker 1: to me, they'd be like, thank you for coming all
Speaker 1: this way. And I was like, wait a minute, you
Speaker 1: came to see my show. I should be thanking you,
Speaker 1: and I was. I was so grateful that people turned
Speaker 1: up in you know, the thousands that came out, and
Speaker 1: it was just amazing. Everyone was so grateful there was
Speaker 1: such a great energy. But the reason I brought it
Speaker 1: up is I realized that my tour schedule was extremely
Speaker 1: different from a keynote, because a keynote is I've got
Speaker 1: to do it once and then it's done. This was
Speaker 1: every night, if not every other night, if not sometimes
Speaker 1: in Australia, I did two shows back to back on
Speaker 1: the same day because we were at the Syney Operas
Speaker 1: for two days. But we did two shows in one day,
Speaker 1: one show the next day, so three shows across two days,
Speaker 1: and then went to I think it was Brisbane or
Speaker 1: Melbourne that was lost, and so my tour schedule was different.
Speaker 1: But I realized I had to stop eating at twelve.
Speaker 1: My show was at eight pm. I had to stop
Speaker 1: being at twelve. I'd have protein bar around five six
Speaker 1: pm to give me that little bit of boost of energy.
Speaker 1: I'd have a sparkling water because I preferred that, just
Speaker 1: before I went on, and then I would have to eat.
Speaker 1: I'd get off stage at ten to a meet and
Speaker 1: greet for two hours, and then i'd eat at midnight
Speaker 1: every day. Now that's not my normal schedule at all,
Speaker 1: Like that's completely against my normal schedule. But I had
Speaker 1: to find that, And I think that's what's so interesting
Speaker 1: about this is that I sleep at nine nine thirty
Speaker 1: every night. That's what I'm in bed, So for me
Speaker 1: to be having to eat dinner at midnight is so abnormal.
Speaker 1: But I found that there was a different routine. I
Speaker 1: also didn't go out to any noisy places before or
Speaker 1: after the show because I had to be on vocal rest.
Speaker 1: I knew i'd lose my voice if I went to
Speaker 1: a restaurant or whatever. So for three four months I
Speaker 1: didn't go to a restaurant. While I was out in
Speaker 1: all these cool cities. I was like, Oh, did you
Speaker 1: go to this place?
Speaker 2: Did it?
Speaker 1: I was like, no, I didn't go to any of
Speaker 1: those places because I would have lost my voice and
Speaker 1: then I wouldn't be able to perform. And I think
Speaker 1: that's the important part of the craft, that there's a
Speaker 1: dedication and a surrender to this is what matters, and
Speaker 1: therefore some of this other stuff is going to have
Speaker 1: to fall by the wayside.
Speaker 2: And what you just said made me think the importance
Speaker 2: of finding what works for you. Yes, I feel like
Speaker 2: people have this misunderstanding that I should just have this
Speaker 2: energy naturally. Back to your original question, right, I should
Speaker 2: just have it naturally, and if I don't have it naturally,
Speaker 2: there's something wrong with me. It's like, no, you have
Speaker 2: to not eat for eight hours to get yourself into
Speaker 2: the right state. And I think that fastest state helps
Speaker 2: us think more sharp and helps us be more on
Speaker 2: point right, And it takes work to show up with energy, intension,
Speaker 2: and purpose, Whereas I think people have this illusion in
Speaker 2: their minds that oh, it should be easy yeah, and
Speaker 2: a week yeah, or there's something wrong is no, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: no no. There's a craft to it. Like even preparing
Speaker 2: for a zoom call, some people go, oh, is that
Speaker 2: a bit much, But that's how you show up three
Speaker 2: zoom calls, back to back, structure it with fifteen minutes
Speaker 2: in between. You have to reset. Even for me, it's
Speaker 2: doing these podcasts, traveling overseas. I'm exhausted. But then again,
Speaker 2: if I choose to give this energy, I need to
Speaker 2: conserve it. I need to have ways to rejuvenate it,
Speaker 2: and I have to go through the process and you
Speaker 2: have to commit to the craft. You have to commit
Speaker 2: to that discipline. Whereas if you one night did eat
Speaker 2: at six pm, well then that show wouldn't be as great,
Speaker 2: but you were dedicated. And I think that that is
Speaker 2: what people have to really understand is there are ways
Speaker 2: to do it, but you've got to take yourself through
Speaker 2: the process.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. For someone who's listening to their voice, now
Speaker 1: they're listening to us, they're like, vin, I'm going to
Speaker 1: listen to this. They start listening back to their voice
Speaker 1: and they cringe at their voice because we all have
Speaker 1: this strange and by the way, we all have it.
Speaker 1: I have and I want to say that here, I
Speaker 1: have that too. No one likes listening to the sound
Speaker 1: of their own voice. There's something uncomfortable about it. First
Speaker 1: of all, do you know where that comes from? And
Speaker 1: then what do we do about that? When you're listening
Speaker 1: back and you just you know, your body, your face,
Speaker 1: everything's just listening.
Speaker 2: Is when you look at yourself on video two. And
Speaker 2: there's a reason for that. The reason we hate the
Speaker 2: sound of our voice is because when we hear ourselves
Speaker 2: on the recording, that's not where how we sound to ourselves.
Speaker 2: The way you sound to yourself. You have a deep, rich,
Speaker 2: barry wide voice, right, And the reason you have a
Speaker 2: different sounding voice to yourself is when you're speaking the
Speaker 2: vibrations go through your bones and your muscles, and then
Speaker 2: it hits your ears. The vibrations of the sound is
Speaker 2: going through a more dense medium, which creates a lower
Speaker 2: pitch sound. So when you hear yourself via an audio replay,
Speaker 2: that's going through the air waves, so your voice sounds
Speaker 2: thinner and higher pitch. So you immediately go, no, no, no h,
Speaker 2: I don't sound like that. I sound like this. I
Speaker 2: don't sound like this, and they freak out. So that
Speaker 2: difference in the medium in which you're receiving the sound
Speaker 2: causes people immediately to reject because it actually does sound different.
Speaker 2: The reason why people are like looking at those ons
Speaker 2: of video is because it's fipped the other way, and
Speaker 2: they go, I had to look like that because you
Speaker 2: look at yourself in the mirror every day, whereas on
Speaker 2: camera it shows the way other people see you. Whereas
Speaker 2: when you look at yourself in the mirror, it's flipped.
Speaker 2: So your entire life, you've seen yourself a certain way. Right,
Speaker 2: unless your face is perfectly symmetrical, right, then you go, oh, no,
Speaker 2: I don't look like that. So immediately people go, I
Speaker 2: look weird. I sound weird. So the thing you need
Speaker 2: to do. There is desensitize it. Mate. Just listen to
Speaker 2: yourself over note, like, do you listen to a podcast now,
Speaker 2: and do you still freak out about your voice?
Speaker 1: Not anymore?
Speaker 2: Not more anymore, because you're desensitized. So what happens is
Speaker 2: a calibration happens what you hear in your head and
Speaker 2: what you hear on an audio replay. The calibration starts
Speaker 2: to just do this, and then gradually you can't hear
Speaker 2: the difference anymore. And then when you look at yourself
Speaker 2: and I'm on camera and also in the mirror, the
Speaker 2: calibration starts to happen. You go, oh, that's me, Oh,
Speaker 2: that's just me. Yeah, it's painful, but if you go
Speaker 2: through that, you get over it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all that discomfort in the beginning. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: is that we all need to go through. I was
Speaker 1: we were doing about this earlier. So I was really
Speaker 1: fortunate because when I was eleven years old, my parents
Speaker 1: were so scared that I was so shy and so
Speaker 1: insecure that they forced me to go to public speaking school.
Speaker 1: And so my school had an extracurricular activity with the
Speaker 1: London Academy of Music, Drama and Arts for seven years.
Speaker 1: I had about three sessions a week of two to
Speaker 1: three hours each. It was fairly rigorous, and you'd have
Speaker 1: to take exams, and the exams were pretty rigorous too.
Speaker 1: So every year you'd go to this exam and you
Speaker 1: turn up and the examiner would be in a room,
Speaker 1: and before you'd meet the examiner, you'd get you could
Speaker 1: take a book. It could be any book you wanted,
Speaker 1: but they were going to pick any page and ask
Speaker 1: you to read it in a emotive, dramatic and powerful way.
Speaker 1: And so they could pick any page out of a book.
Speaker 1: The next part of the test was they would give
Speaker 1: you a topic fifteen minutes before you'd be in a library.
Speaker 1: This is when we didn't have you know, yeah, they
Speaker 1: probably was the Internet, but there wasn't this. They'd wanted
Speaker 1: to keep you away from all of that. You'd be
Speaker 1: in a library and you'd have fifteen minutes to preper
Speaker 1: talk about the dangers of smoking or whatever. It was
Speaker 1: a topic that picked and you had to structure a
Speaker 1: talk out and the talk had to be five minutes long,
Speaker 1: and so you had to do that. The third part
Speaker 1: of it was you had a prepared presentation with visual aids.
Speaker 1: This is when we still use projector screens and ye, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And then you were tested on that, including the visual
Speaker 1: aids that you used, and I'm sure there were a
Speaker 1: couple of other things as well, and then you'd get
Speaker 1: graded and it was uncomfortable. We'd be sitting in a
Speaker 1: class and remember we're all like young teenagers at this point,
Speaker 1: so everyone's even more judgmentor and more you know. And
Speaker 1: you get into the class and you're all making these
Speaker 1: weird faces to try and warm yourselves up, and they're
Speaker 1: telling you to enunciate and pronounce all of the letters differently,
Speaker 1: and you're doing all these silly things. Your friends are
Speaker 1: laughing at you, and it's exactly what you're saying. The
Speaker 1: reason I brought it up is that it was years
Speaker 1: of discomfort. It was just years of looking silly, looking stupid,
Speaker 1: sounding bad, giving a bad talk, giving a bad presentation,
Speaker 1: walking into a room. Then all of us sudden that
Speaker 1: discomfort change to confidence. And I find that for most
Speaker 1: of us, especially as you get older, going through that
Speaker 1: discomfort becomes harder. For example of me and you. I
Speaker 1: don't know how old you are, but I tried to
Speaker 1: pick up a sport A couple of years ago in
Speaker 1: the pandemic. It was much harder for me to learn
Speaker 1: a sport at this age than if I played it
Speaker 1: in my teens. So when you're meeting people in their twenties, thirties,
Speaker 1: maybe forties, fifties, and they're trying to change their instrument,
Speaker 1: they're trying to change their voice, that discomfort is so
Speaker 1: much harder than when I started at eleven or whatever
Speaker 1: age you started at.
Speaker 2: How do you.
Speaker 1: Encourage people to sit with that discomfort, to go through that,
Speaker 1: because it is harder.
Speaker 2: Such a beautiful insight that you shared there. The reason
Speaker 2: it was easier for you at eleven is because you
Speaker 2: were new to a lot of these behaviors completely. The
Speaker 2: behaviors haven't been ingrained in you yet, whereas when you're
Speaker 2: forty now, I'm thirty.
Speaker 1: Eight, so I'm thirty seven. So yeah.
Speaker 2: So once you're forty and you realize this, you've done
Speaker 2: forty years of repeating one behavior, two behaviors, a series
Speaker 2: of behaviors over and over and over and over again.
Speaker 2: That's why it becomes harder, right, And all of a
Speaker 2: sudden it becomes way more difficult because now you have
Speaker 2: to unlearn something that you've been repeating for that long,
Speaker 2: so I think there's really difficult there. One other point
Speaker 2: I wanted to mention what you said there too, is
Speaker 2: that you said you went through years of discomfort. A
Speaker 2: lot of people have this idea that again, it should
Speaker 2: just be a quick process, and if I'm struggling for
Speaker 2: a period, then something's not right. It's like no, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: struggle that's good. It means you're in the process of change, right,
Speaker 2: You're going through the process of change, and you have
Speaker 2: to be willing to put in that effort, go through
Speaker 2: the struggle. And I think the thing that people are
Speaker 2: resistant to is failing because I believe, and I want
Speaker 2: to ask you this question, did you learn more from
Speaker 2: your successes in those situations, in those public speaking exams,
Speaker 2: or did you learn more from your failures?
Speaker 1: Failures?
Speaker 2: People don't want to fail now. I don't want to
Speaker 2: make a video put it out on Instagram where made
Speaker 2: a full lot of myself. But that's how we learn, right.
Speaker 2: I don't want to do a speech where I forget
Speaker 2: what I'm going to say, but that's how you learn.
Speaker 2: You have it happen, then you go back and you go, Okay,
Speaker 2: why did I forget. Oh it wasn't well rehearsed, right,
Speaker 2: Why do I forget? I didn't know how to do
Speaker 2: with my nerves. Now you need to learn how to rehearse.
Speaker 2: Now you need to learn how to manage your nerves.
Speaker 2: So all of a sudden, if you don't fail, you
Speaker 2: don't know where your weakness is, and then you don't
Speaker 2: know what to work on. So you've got to pay
Speaker 2: the price. You've got to pay the price. Back to
Speaker 2: your original question, that's great.
Speaker 1: I am so glad you brought that up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is so important because I think people just
Speaker 2: now are resistant to failing. Yet we learn far more
Speaker 2: from our failures than we do from our successes. Sure,
Speaker 2: so for the person who's forty, Oh my god, then
Speaker 2: how do I now? How do? What do I do?
Speaker 2: Am I doomed?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: No, you're not. It's just when Jay was eleven, he
Speaker 2: was able to work on three or four different behaviors
Speaker 2: at the same time, because you're so elastic, right, There's
Speaker 2: so many things that could change about you when you're
Speaker 2: at that age. But when you're less elastic in your
Speaker 2: older years, you just now have to focus on one
Speaker 2: thing at a time. So I've coached a few CEOs
Speaker 2: of some pretty big companies here in the US. And
Speaker 2: it's so funny because when I map out there I
Speaker 2: used to do I don't do it anymore. But when
Speaker 2: I did it, and I mapped out their coaching program
Speaker 2: and I showed it to them, they got upset because
Speaker 2: they're like, wait, you're making me work on my volume
Speaker 2: for four weeks and that's all we're doing. This feels stupid.
Speaker 2: And in those moments, I just have the courage to go, well, look,
Speaker 2: then pick somebody else. It's okay, get a refund, pick
Speaker 2: somebody up, because I kind of said to them, you're
Speaker 2: fifty and you've been speaking with a very default quiet
Speaker 2: volume for fifty years. Do you expect abow to change
Speaker 2: that in forty eight hours? Because every because I get
Speaker 2: them to send me a video every day, right, and
Speaker 2: when they every time they send me a video, I
Speaker 2: go watch what you're doing For the first seven days,
Speaker 2: even though you know we're working on volume, your default
Speaker 2: volume is like a four out of ten, and that's
Speaker 2: when they go, oh far out. I keep defaulting back
Speaker 2: to it. So the older you are, you've got to
Speaker 2: realize one thing at a time, one thing at a time,
Speaker 2: but it drives people crazy. I want to do seven
Speaker 2: things and I want to do hand gestures. I want
Speaker 2: to learn how to storytell, I want to use volume,
Speaker 2: I want to add pitching melody. I want to do
Speaker 2: all of it. But that's also what leads to no change.
Speaker 2: That's why most people never change the way they sound,
Speaker 2: because they're not willing to sit and be patient and
Speaker 2: do one thing at a time.
Speaker 1: Yeah. A good example is thinking about it, like driving,
Speaker 1: how many bad driving habits have we picked up in
Speaker 1: the last twenty years because we haven't been tested, we
Speaker 1: haven't reviewed it right. And I recently had to redo
Speaker 1: my driving test because of moving here and you know,
Speaker 1: getting a state idea and all that kind of stuff,
Speaker 1: And I realized just how many bad habits you pick up. Now.
Speaker 1: I believed myself to be a safe driver and a
Speaker 1: good driver and a responsible driver. But still the fact
Speaker 1: that for twenty years no one's watched me and checked
Speaker 1: on me driving, you lose that. And so that's twenty
Speaker 1: years of driving, which is something we do every day,
Speaker 1: which is similar to speaking. You're doing it every day,
Speaker 1: but no one's doing what you're You're not fatal point, right,
Speaker 1: you're not recording yourself driving and sending it to someone.
Speaker 2: You just made me think of something for it when
Speaker 2: you said driving as well. I mean when you think
Speaker 2: back to the four stages of learning we talked about before,
Speaker 2: and you talk about unconscious competence to keep people a
Speaker 2: sense of what's possible once you really go down the
Speaker 2: path of mastery of communication skills, think of an area
Speaker 2: in your life where you have achieved unconscious competence. It's driving,
Speaker 2: whether we're good or not, that's another thing, right, But
Speaker 2: most people, I would dare say sometimes too, you're kind
Speaker 2: of unconscious when you're driving because you're so good at it.
Speaker 2: You've done it every single day of your adult life,
Speaker 2: so you've gotten to a point where you are unconsciously competent. Right,
Speaker 2: And then people always ask me now they get of
Speaker 2: in when you communicate? Now, are you thinking about gesturing?
Speaker 2: Are you thinking about storytelling? Are you thinking about I go? No,
Speaker 2: I don't because like with the car, when you think
Speaker 2: you want to go to the grocery store, do you
Speaker 2: have any thought now into Oh I need to open
Speaker 2: the door, Oh I need to check my blind spot,
Speaker 2: or I need to ad Just know it's all automatic.
Speaker 2: So the reason why I try to inspire my students
Speaker 2: to improve the communication skills because I say to them
Speaker 2: that means in the very next conversation you have with
Speaker 2: a client, a customer, a family member, you can just
Speaker 2: think I want this outcome. I want to be a
Speaker 2: help them in this way. Your skills and abilities will
Speaker 2: just take you there. And that's why you come across
Speaker 2: in these podcasts and the professional people who do this.
Speaker 2: It's so natural and when people are sitting there going
Speaker 2: I want to be that natural. But it requires a
Speaker 2: dedication to mastery.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's the point that I really want people
Speaker 1: to get. I remember sitting and watching one of my
Speaker 1: favorite comedians who became a friend, and he was just brilliant,
Speaker 1: like he would have the audience laughing and enraptures like
Speaker 1: in the palm of his hand right, but everything looked
Speaker 1: and felt completely off the cuff. So he'd literally just
Speaker 1: turn up on stage. It wasn't like he wasn't in
Speaker 1: the flow. Sometimes you want a comedian and you can
Speaker 1: tell there's an arc, and you can tell there's a story,
Speaker 1: and you can tell it's planned. Yeah, this guy would
Speaker 1: literally come up. People are aid anyone has anyone read
Speaker 1: any books lately, and like someone who name of a
Speaker 1: book came be like, oh yeah, I read that page,
Speaker 1: and you make a joke out of it. And then
Speaker 1: someone else and he'd be like, Oh, what's your favorite
Speaker 1: song right now? And it's all a conversation brings out
Speaker 1: a song. Oh yeah, I can't believe he said that
Speaker 1: lyric makes a joke about the lyric and it was
Speaker 1: unbelievable to watch. And I spoke to him afterwards and
Speaker 1: I said to him, I said, who did you learn
Speaker 1: that from? Like, where did that come from? He said,
Speaker 1: I've practiced it so much that it looks spontaneous, but
Speaker 1: it's completely trained. And I think that's what everyone wants.
Speaker 1: Everyone wants for it to look spontaneous, but that took
Speaker 1: years of discomfort, courage, failure, training, Masteret. When I'm telling
Speaker 1: a story or hosting a podcast, I'm not trying to
Speaker 1: sound like anything because your voice has for so many
Speaker 1: years become that way. And I'm at a point in
Speaker 1: my career for sure I was asked to give I
Speaker 1: just gave three keynotes in the Middle East in January
Speaker 1: and in Dubai, and I said to myself, I'm going
Speaker 1: to walk into these and just channel, like I just
Speaker 1: want to go in there and just be. I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna have some notes. I know what I
Speaker 1: need to talk about, I know the title of the talk,
Speaker 1: but I'm just gonna be. And I had so much fun.
Speaker 1: I had so much fun. And it seemed like the
Speaker 1: feedback was great for the audience whatever, but it was
Speaker 1: just so much fun for me because I was like,
Speaker 1: I just want to feed off the energy in the
Speaker 1: room and they were all and my friend, one of
Speaker 1: my best friends, he came with me and he was like, Jay,
Speaker 1: every talk was different. He goes at the one billion summit,
Speaker 1: you were hilarious, like I was like watching a comedian.
Speaker 1: And then he goes at Mind Valley it was really
Speaker 1: deep and like, you know, philosophical. And then at the
Speaker 1: other place, the corporate event, it was very professional. He
Speaker 1: was like, there were three talks in three days and
Speaker 1: they were all completely different. I was like, because I
Speaker 1: was just feeling the energy of the room and I
Speaker 1: love that walk me through. How many hours, how much time,
Speaker 1: how many years have you seen people take to get
Speaker 1: to a point where they feel that sense of unconscious competence,
Speaker 1: not of not of mastery, because that can take many years,
Speaker 1: but a sense of comfortability where it's flowing and they
Speaker 1: don't feel phony and contrived anymore. Where what have you seen?
Speaker 2: It depends on your longer what have you seen. I've
Speaker 2: seen unbelievable change within six months. And this is someone
Speaker 2: who has become problem aware that this thing has been
Speaker 2: destroying my relationships, destroying my career growth. And when that
Speaker 2: pain becomes that great and you become problem aware, I
Speaker 2: can't believe how quickly some of my students have been
Speaker 2: able to change. And then I've seen it take as
Speaker 2: long as three or four years and where I'm still great, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: exactly where I'll get an email three to four years
Speaker 2: later and they go, I can't believe it's taking me
Speaker 2: this long to email you. I almost feel a little
Speaker 2: bit of shame. I'm like, no, because it took me ten.
Speaker 2: So that's amazing. That's incredible, right, because it ranges so
Speaker 2: much depending on the intensity of the pain they feel
Speaker 2: and the realizations they have. I have to bring it
Speaker 2: back to what you said before, because what you said
Speaker 2: before about you going to three events and just going
Speaker 2: with the flow. I know the people listening to this
Speaker 2: right now while you were saying that, they were clenching
Speaker 2: their butt checks because they were like, Ah, that's so
Speaker 2: that's so freaky. And I wanted to speak to that
Speaker 2: because what you just described to me is one of
Speaker 2: the ultimate benefits of mastery in this arena, and it's freedom.
Speaker 2: You were free in each one of those speeches. You
Speaker 2: were free to go where the audience wanted to go.
Speaker 2: That's one of the things I rarely ever get to
Speaker 2: even talk about because I don't get to speak to
Speaker 2: others usually who are so proficient at this skill set.
Speaker 2: That's ultimate freedom, Jay. When you feel something, you think something,
Speaker 2: and you're immediately in the moment able to articulate it
Speaker 2: with clarity and make people laugh at the same time.
Speaker 2: That is so powerful.
Speaker 1: Man, I'm dan shiit is just what you're saying.
Speaker 2: It's like goosebumps, and to know you're going into that
Speaker 2: being able to do that, like again, it's achievable for
Speaker 2: you listening to this too.
Speaker 1: What I love about it is that there was so
Speaker 1: much discovery for me on that stage, and that's what
Speaker 1: I do it for. I don't do it to show
Speaker 1: off or be like, oh, look, I don't need to
Speaker 1: prepare or be lazy or not respect my client. I
Speaker 1: do it for discovery. And what I mean by that
Speaker 1: is when I don't plan to that one hundred percent,
Speaker 1: I now have the opportunity to find and discover in
Speaker 1: the moment. So there were so many things that I
Speaker 1: said in those three keynotes that have never said in
Speaker 1: my life. And that's where I get your Yeah, you create.
Speaker 1: And I said that first because I wanted to take
Speaker 1: it back and say, my first experience of public speaking,
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about yours. I was around
Speaker 1: seven years old and my mum always wanted me to
Speaker 1: be on stage and do things like that, and I didn't.
Speaker 1: And so it was a religious assembly and I was
Speaker 1: dressed as people from my culture and I was asked
Speaker 1: to go and sing and speak on this prayer in
Speaker 1: front of my class. Now, I grew up in London.
Speaker 1: I grew up in an area where there weren't loads
Speaker 1: of Indian people like me. I'm now on stage dressed
Speaker 1: in traditional garb. But it was basically me wrapped in
Speaker 1: a sari if you've ever seen that. And my mum
Speaker 1: had even put some makeup on me, probably to try
Speaker 1: and make me look more of the part and it
Speaker 1: didn't help. And then I'm on stage in front of
Speaker 1: all my friends. I'm seven, eight years old something like that,
Speaker 1: and I stand up there with this prayer that I'm
Speaker 1: not that well versed in or practiced, and I start
Speaker 1: singing it. I have a terrible singing voice, and that's
Speaker 1: not humble. There's a difference between a speaking voice and
Speaker 1: a singing voice. I can't sing to say my life.
Speaker 1: And I start singing, and the whole audience starts laughing immediately,
Speaker 1: like just like literally all my friends are rolling on
Speaker 1: the floor laughing. And now I'm starting to cry because
Speaker 1: I felt really embarrassed, and I look down because I
Speaker 1: forgot the words, and now I can't see the words
Speaker 1: because my tears are blurred the words in my papers.
Speaker 1: I've lost the notes, so don't know the words. And then,
Speaker 1: to make it even worse than that, my teacher walks
Speaker 1: on stage. She puts her armor around me and walks
Speaker 1: me off, which is the most embarrassing thing in the world.
Speaker 1: And so I go from that at eight years old.
Speaker 1: And this is why I love what you're doing for
Speaker 1: the world, because you're showing and proving you can build
Speaker 1: this skill. It is a muscle, and that was my
Speaker 1: first experience of public speaking. A few years after that,
Speaker 1: after all the training as well, I was probably speaking
Speaker 1: of rooms of zero to five people and pouring my
Speaker 1: heart out into just five people. And even now when
Speaker 1: I look back, I loved it because I just got
Speaker 1: to be so proficient and practiced. And so when someone's saying, oh,
Speaker 1: do I have to do this for four weeks or wait,
Speaker 1: only five people are showing up or whatever those things are,
Speaker 1: those are actually really really beautiful moments. I want to
Speaker 1: ask you, what was your first time public speaking? What
Speaker 1: was the first ever experience on step?
Speaker 2: Have you recovered from that experience?
Speaker 1: I have now. I have now. But even though I
Speaker 1: started getting trained when I was eleven, I probably didn't
Speaker 1: get half decent until I was like seventeen or eighteen.
Speaker 1: Like that's why when you said you can get people
Speaker 1: then three to four years, I'm like, that's pretty good,
Speaker 1: because if I started eleven, I probably got half decent
Speaker 1: at sixteen to eighteen. I wasn't good when I was
Speaker 1: like twelve, thirteen, fourteen, All those years we're just you know.
Speaker 2: It's such a common story among many of the students
Speaker 2: that I coach. There usually is some kind of event
Speaker 2: when they were younger that has led them to believe
Speaker 2: that I'm terrible at this thing because there wasn't the
Speaker 2: right support that you were thrown into that you did
Speaker 2: even practice, you didn't even learn the words right. So
Speaker 2: so again like you were set up to almost fail
Speaker 2: when a lot of the old presentations that would do
Speaker 2: when we're young, that's what they called, right, are you
Speaker 2: going to do a presentation? We're set up to fail.
Speaker 2: When you're eleven and you have to do this presentation
Speaker 2: in front of your cast, do they teach you how
Speaker 2: to use your hands? Do they teach you where to
Speaker 2: put your notes? Do they teach you how to summarize
Speaker 2: notes and not write the whole damn thing on Q cards? No,
Speaker 2: they're sending you up to So this is such a
Speaker 2: common story because our school system, the entire year has
Speaker 2: one day well we have to go on in front
Speaker 2: of the class to do it, and guess what. Guess
Speaker 2: what happens to day I'm sick, mom, I can't go
Speaker 2: to school, and then you stay and then you missed
Speaker 2: the one day you have training, and then if you
Speaker 2: do the training, you all set up to fail. You're
Speaker 2: all set up to so every person has a version
Speaker 2: of this. My version of this is a little more
Speaker 2: dramatic because I was older. I was in university and
Speaker 2: we had to do a presentation for accounting, and I
Speaker 2: was so nervous. I remember going to the toilet ten
Speaker 2: twelve times, so nervous. And then I got up on
Speaker 2: stage and I had a sniffle, so I kept I
Speaker 2: kept touching my note. I had to sniffle. And then
Speaker 2: I got a blood nose then, and I didn't realize
Speaker 2: I had a blood nose because I thought it was
Speaker 2: I thought it was I was just I thought I
Speaker 2: was just booger, so I didn't know. I just wiped it.
Speaker 2: Blood comes across my face. I don't know I have
Speaker 2: blood on my face. Why are you speaking while I'm speaking.
Speaker 2: I didn't know it was blood, right, And then I
Speaker 2: obviously a blood vessel went. I was so nervous, was going.
Speaker 2: And then I didn't realize it was blood and I
Speaker 2: was still talking, and then people started laughing. And then
Speaker 2: I tasted blood. And at the moment I tasted blood,
Speaker 2: I looked at my hands. There was blood everywhere. I
Speaker 2: start freaking out. I didn't know what to do. The
Speaker 2: teachers didn't even know what to do either. Do you
Speaker 2: know what I had to do? I finished the talk
Speaker 2: and it was finished, took It was only a five
Speaker 2: bitt of presentation, but I finished it because I didn't
Speaker 2: know what to do, and I panicked, and it was
Speaker 2: just the worst presentation I'd ever given. From that point,
Speaker 2: I just thought, yeah, you know what, I'm going to
Speaker 2: avoid this at all costs. I'm never going to do
Speaker 2: it ever again. This is the worst experience of my life. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: just and then I walked off. I just yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: glad that back then and no photos. That's so traumatic.
Speaker 1: Well, that is traumatic, man, to actually bleed, to be
Speaker 1: that nervous, to be that stress.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how stress I was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, to experience that, that's I love that.
Speaker 1: That's where you started. And now if someone watched, like
Speaker 1: when I watch your vidism, this guy's a genius. Let's
Speaker 1: take a short break to hear from our sponsors. All right,
Speaker 1: thank you to our sponsors. Now let's dive back in.
Speaker 1: One of the things I was thinking about as we're
Speaker 1: doing this, and I'm really trying to put myself in
Speaker 1: your audience issues, my audience issues, the community that struggles
Speaker 1: with this. One thing that I've definitely seen as I've
Speaker 1: traveled and we both have international audiences, is this fear
Speaker 1: that people have around their accents, and that can often
Speaker 1: make people quite unconfident. And it's really interesting because obviously,
Speaker 1: when I moved to the States, people really enjoy listening
Speaker 1: to a British accent in the States. But where I
Speaker 1: was growing up in London, to me, the smartest people
Speaker 1: sounded American accents. Professors Harvard, Princeton, Stamford. When you heard
Speaker 1: these professors do ted talks or whatever it was, it
Speaker 1: was always in an American accent. And it's almost like
Speaker 1: in England we grew up on American rap music. You
Speaker 1: grow up to such a culture that our feelings are
Speaker 1: skewed towards certain accents. And so if you're from a
Speaker 1: country where you feel or a state, or anyway even
Speaker 1: in the United States, you may feel like your accent
Speaker 1: isn't well received. How does how does someone deal with
Speaker 1: that kind of pressure.
Speaker 2: I just believe accents are rarely a problem. It's it's
Speaker 2: really the articulation and the pronunciation that lets people down.
Speaker 2: Because I just feel that accents are beautiful I've got
Speaker 2: students from all over the world, Jay, and I I
Speaker 2: love listening to the accent because it tells a story.
Speaker 2: It tells me who you are, where it lets you down.
Speaker 2: Is like when I first came to the US, I
Speaker 2: didn't realize I had so much Australian slang and Australian's
Speaker 2: user like we shorten all of our words. Is like, yeah, man,
Speaker 2: I want to Yeah, maybe I won't, you know, Yeah,
Speaker 2: all right, Like it's just I didn't realize I was
Speaker 2: doing so much of that, and people go, oh, Australian
Speaker 2: accent is awesome. Yeah. If I if I talk for
Speaker 2: a secon, you won't even understand what I'm saying if
Speaker 2: I don't articulate and pronounce my words correctly.
Speaker 1: Yea.
Speaker 2: So I really believe that. And I have this happen
Speaker 2: all the time in my in person classes where someone
Speaker 2: will come and ask that very question and they will
Speaker 2: have a Polish accent or or maybe they will have
Speaker 2: an Indian accent, and then the moment I just get
Speaker 2: them to over articulate and practice, all of a sudden
Speaker 2: it completely changes how they sound. And here's where it happens. Jay,
Speaker 2: It's because for me, for example, Right, I learned the
Speaker 2: Vietnamese language, so I learned a set of Vietnamese mouth movements.
Speaker 2: My big mistake was when I learned English, I used
Speaker 2: the same set of mouth movements in the Vietnamese language
Speaker 2: to go speak the English language. Fascinating, right, So then
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, now when I speak English, my
Speaker 2: accent wasn't the problem. The problem was I wasn't articulating correctly,
Speaker 2: so people didn't understand me. I used to not pronounce
Speaker 2: my teas British be wor good with this, but Australians
Speaker 2: and even Asians I didn't do it. So I'd say
Speaker 2: things like I can't. I wouldn't pronounce I can't. I
Speaker 2: wouldn't pronounce that, And then my tea's I would say free, Oh,
Speaker 2: I can I have three of those instead of three
Speaker 2: of those yeah. And then what people were associating with
Speaker 2: low levels of intelligence was not so much my accent.
Speaker 2: It was just because I didn't articulate my words well.
Speaker 2: And this can happen in any culture. This can happen
Speaker 2: with any accent. I've heard people with Chinese accents, Indian accents,
Speaker 2: Polish accents, Russian accents. But when they articulate their words beautifully.
Speaker 2: Oh man, it's like you get to listen to a
Speaker 2: different genre of music. Otherwise, imagine everyone sounded like us.
Speaker 1: There's no flavor, there's no personality.
Speaker 2: Personality. Again, I do not believe accents or a problem.
Speaker 2: I believe the problem lies in your ability to articulate
Speaker 2: and your pronunciation. And here's the quick activity that you
Speaker 2: can do to help you. One of the greatest things
Speaker 2: I learned that my speech pathologists made me do was,
Speaker 2: first of all, grab a book. And every single day,
Speaker 2: you grab a book for five minutes, four times a day,
Speaker 2: if you want to take it real seriously, every time
Speaker 2: for five minutes, read the book and overdo your lip movements,
Speaker 2: overdo the tongue movements. And then, if you want to
Speaker 2: take it to the next level, put a pen in
Speaker 2: your mouth, because if you put a pen in your mouth,
Speaker 2: you're forced to over articulate and do it out loud.
Speaker 2: And by doing this you'll start to learn and record
Speaker 2: yourself while you're doing it too. You'll start to learn,
Speaker 2: oh wow, I struggle with this sound, this consonant, this vow.
Speaker 2: And as you start to bring a little bit of
Speaker 2: awareness to it, you go ah, right, I need to
Speaker 2: change the way I'm shaping my lips. I need to
Speaker 2: change the way and just going through that process alone.
Speaker 2: I remember doing that for three months. And I had
Speaker 2: to do that when I came here to the US
Speaker 2: because I slurred my words a lot. And in Australia
Speaker 2: you fully understand before I might, right, yeah, there's no
Speaker 2: dramas with that. But over here, all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: I was speaking in Texas and I still remember speaking
Speaker 2: in Texas for the first time. It was so sweet.
Speaker 2: They're like, I love the gap. I ain't got no
Speaker 2: idea what he's saying.
Speaker 1: Right, And it was like this weird thing where.
Speaker 2: And then I literally had to go see a speech
Speaker 2: pathologist even later in my life because in Australia it
Speaker 2: wasn't a problem and I didn't realize it too, but
Speaker 2: when I slurred my words that much, it made people
Speaker 2: think I wasn't smart, right, And this is why people
Speaker 2: in the world think the British are so smart. Is
Speaker 2: it just the accent or is it because as they
Speaker 2: articulate extremely well, right, right, So you can sound smart
Speaker 2: in any culture, in any with any accent.
Speaker 1: Should we get a couple of pens?
Speaker 3: Can you pass as a couple of just that people
Speaker 3: realize what it is, yeah, and that we also need
Speaker 3: to do these like I'm I'm probably going to contact
Speaker 3: you straight after this and go, Vin, I'm not kidding you.
Speaker 1: I mean this, Thank you so much. What type of
Speaker 1: pen doesn't matter, It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. It
Speaker 1: could be a sharp.
Speaker 2: I think it depends the more challenging it is.
Speaker 1: That one I think I've already let's not give you
Speaker 1: I've already this one does not have back marks, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: look you can see what I've done with this.
Speaker 2: We do this for a segment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But what I was saying was, as soon as
Speaker 1: we finish this podcast, I'm probably going to message you
Speaker 1: in say, Vin, can you please critique all of my
Speaker 1: I'm going to send you a speech and ask you
Speaker 1: to help me get better, because I think the mistake
Speaker 1: is also that you get there and then you don't
Speaker 1: need these techniques, or that you don't need to improve,
Speaker 1: and that you don't need to work.
Speaker 2: On it practice anymore.
Speaker 1: I think about it all the time.
Speaker 4: So anyway, let's let's Yeah, can you see how difficult?
Speaker 4: This is very difficult, right, And I want people to
Speaker 4: think about this. Who can you understand better right now?
Speaker 1: I'm not sure you've.
Speaker 2: Got to give me more than that, Jake.
Speaker 1: Okay, So Rinn, how are you today?
Speaker 2: Feeling a little.
Speaker 1: Bit jet lagged? Okay?
Speaker 2: I came all the way from Australia.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just got back from Mexico yesterday and I
Speaker 1: went to a friend's wedding and we had a really
Speaker 1: good time.
Speaker 2: Oh that's beautiful.
Speaker 1: I'm really happy for him.
Speaker 2: Oh, so happy for you. It's in doing these things
Speaker 2: that you start all of a sudden. Now that I
Speaker 2: now when I speak, I feel like, oh I'm so
Speaker 2: sharp totally.
Speaker 1: I can do even just from a few moments.
Speaker 2: Because you're forced to stretch your mouth so much bigger
Speaker 2: to make the shapes, to be able to create the sounds.
Speaker 2: Whereas the biggest problem, and again this happens in the
Speaker 2: English language. When you think about the European languages, the
Speaker 2: Asian languages, we actually don't have to drop our jaw
Speaker 2: a lot to speak those languages. Interesting because when I
Speaker 2: speak Vietnamese, you know, I can do a lot of
Speaker 2: Vietnamese with my mouth closed. Can you even learned Nignam
Speaker 2: three eleven son? I barely have to move my jaw.
Speaker 2: English is one of the very few languages where, when
Speaker 2: you think about consciously how you're speaking, you have to
Speaker 2: drop your jaw so much to speak the English language. Well,
Speaker 2: whereas again, the Asian cultures European languages, you don't have to.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: Again, each language has a different set of mouth movements.
Speaker 2: So by doing that simply alone, you felt it straight away, Yes,
Speaker 2: because you had to move your jaw so much, totally.
Speaker 1: I can actually feel like we've worked out Yeah, like
Speaker 1: that's what it feels like.
Speaker 2: And that we did it for thirty seconds.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and you can keep that pen Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2: I do think you want it back.
Speaker 1: I genuinely feel the difference from such a short period
Speaker 1: of time, and I could tell if I did it
Speaker 1: for longer, it would make an even bigger difference.
Speaker 2: Well, imagine you did it for five minutes. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: you started dedicating yourself to me, Yes, yes, my goodness.
Speaker 2: Within a week, you'll notice your mouth moving differently, and
Speaker 2: you'll notice yourself sounding more clear. Accents are not a problem.
Speaker 2: You've got to stop thinking that. People always go, oh,
Speaker 2: I hate my accent. That tells a story. It's your culture,
Speaker 2: it's your history, it's what makes you unique? And I
Speaker 2: always love to think of it as it's different genres
Speaker 2: of music.
Speaker 1: Yes, and that's what we're seeing in music in the
Speaker 1: world right now. Anyway. You're seeing languages pour in through
Speaker 1: different artists and people, and it's such a need for that.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you something because this was a
Speaker 1: big evolution point for me. So from eleven to eighteen
Speaker 1: I went to public speaking school. I got the tools,
Speaker 1: is how I like to see it. But it was
Speaker 1: only when I met the monks and I started to
Speaker 1: learn about Eastern wisdom and philosophy that I felt I
Speaker 1: had something to talk about, and I wanted to ask
Speaker 1: you how much you weight the balance between what you
Speaker 1: have to say and how you say it.
Speaker 2: Both equally important. I see some books where I read
Speaker 2: where they go, no, what you say is more important,
Speaker 2: and then some books say, no, how you say it
Speaker 2: is a more important And I think they kind of
Speaker 2: have to do this sometimes because they are an expert
Speaker 2: in one particular arena. But again, I believe the answer
Speaker 2: is not which one, it's both both just as critical.
Speaker 2: Same with me. I think until I found the purpose
Speaker 2: and the fulfillment from teaching public speaking, I didn't really
Speaker 2: have much to talk about. I didn't and until I
Speaker 2: found that, then all of a sudden, I started creating content.
Speaker 2: Then the content started to take off, And I think
Speaker 2: it's because I love how you've positioned what you do here.
Speaker 2: It's on purpose. When I found that purpose and I
Speaker 2: had the tools and I was able to use my instrument,
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, the world resonated with that. Yes,
Speaker 2: whereas before I did make YouTube videos back in two
Speaker 2: thousand and eight two thousand and nine, just for fun,
Speaker 2: but they didn't really go anywhere because even though I
Speaker 2: had decent access to my instrument, it just didn't go
Speaker 2: anywhere because I wasn't aligned. You could hear it. It
Speaker 2: wasn't on purpose.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I'm glad I brought that up because I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people are struggling with either or
Speaker 1: Like someone may come to you, they may learn all
Speaker 1: the tools, yeah, but then they're gonna have to find
Speaker 1: what they use it for. And like you said, there
Speaker 1: may be someone else who actually has lots of knowledge,
Speaker 1: but then they don't have the tools to share the
Speaker 1: wisdom or the insight.
Speaker 2: And that's generally the student that somehow discovers me right.
Speaker 2: It's the one that is I have something to share
Speaker 2: with the world, but some reason, every time I share it,
Speaker 2: people misunderstand me. Every time I share it, it doesn't get
Speaker 2: the impact that I desire. And it's the truth because
Speaker 2: you have You could have the greatest piece of music
Speaker 2: written by Beethoven, but if you play it poorly, it
Speaker 2: is that the greatest music. And again, it's so interesting
Speaker 2: because I understand my students so intimately now where I
Speaker 2: know what they'll say that they say things in their
Speaker 2: life like they go, I'm just gonna let my work
Speaker 2: speak for myself. Why not speak for your work too? Right? Well,
Speaker 2: why can't we do both? Why why are we so linear?
Speaker 2: Why can't we do both so good? Right? And when
Speaker 2: they realize that, they go, oh, okay, right, it opens
Speaker 2: their mind to the whole idea of I kind of
Speaker 2: have the tech responsibility to shine my light. I can't
Speaker 2: wait for someone again. And I remember we have a
Speaker 2: mutual friend, Mel Robins, right. Yes, Mel helped him with
Speaker 2: my speaking career. At the start of my speaking criage,
Speaker 2: Mel used to flick me the gigs that couldn't afford her.
Speaker 2: I became the cheap Mel Robins for a period, so
Speaker 2: I was the cheap mel Robins. She was amazing and
Speaker 2: so gracious where well because she couldn't do those gigs,
Speaker 2: but maybe she was busy as well, and she flicked
Speaker 2: them to me. That's how she started my career here
Speaker 2: in the US.
Speaker 1: Know that.
Speaker 2: And she was one of the people that I saw
Speaker 2: from her content as well early on where she said
Speaker 2: no one's coming to healthier, no one's coming to save
Speaker 2: your That's when it really hit home for me to
Speaker 2: I went, Okay, I'm gonna have to go do this myself, right,
Speaker 2: And you take ownership for that. And yeah, because when
Speaker 2: you take ownership, you step into your power. When you
Speaker 2: blame others, you kind of lose all of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. What about someone who comes to you and says,
Speaker 1: I talk too fast? How do you teach people to
Speaker 1: slow down? Because I think that we're all scared of pauses, right,
Speaker 1: Everyone's always trying to fill the gaps, even if you're
Speaker 1: in a conversation with someone. We don't like pauses. I've
Speaker 1: for years had to practice the ability to say it's okay,
Speaker 1: if I need to look away, if I need to think,
Speaker 1: if I need to reflect, if I actually just need
Speaker 1: to take something in whether I'm on a podcast, on stage,
Speaker 1: or in a private meeting, how do we get comfortable
Speaker 1: with's slowing down and pausing rather than trying to fill
Speaker 1: all the space, because that's such a natural thing to do.
Speaker 2: The first thing I'd say, if you speak really fast,
Speaker 2: well done for being aware that you do. Most people
Speaker 2: are not aware of it is a lot of it
Speaker 2: is to do with your mindset and the state of
Speaker 2: mind that you're in. When do you think people speak
Speaker 2: really fast when they're feeling what.
Speaker 1: They're nervous, cacious, anxious, etc.
Speaker 2: Right, So you've got to you kind of kind of
Speaker 2: have to address it at the core there. So what
Speaker 2: you need to do is you have to identify when
Speaker 2: are you speaking fast? In which situations are you speaking fast?
Speaker 2: Oh it's when I'm in a job interview. Oh It's
Speaker 2: when I'm going in for my quarterly review. Well great,
Speaker 2: Now you know in these isolights situation the triggers are
Speaker 2: high pressure situations. Okay, cool. That means before you go
Speaker 2: into those situations, you need to still your mind and
Speaker 2: your body. Again, it comes back to breathing. All right.
Speaker 2: I couldn't believe it, but there were workshops that I
Speaker 2: was invited to and I did some of them. I
Speaker 2: couldn't beieve we could spend three to four days on breathing.
Speaker 2: And then I found out there was a seven day
Speaker 2: workshop on breathing. I went seven days. There's so much
Speaker 2: profound wisdom in the breath, and I did not understand
Speaker 2: it until I started learning more about it. So again,
Speaker 2: breathing before you go in, go with the wim Hoff breathing,
Speaker 2: and that will slow down your mind and slow down
Speaker 2: your body, and then all of a sudden it slows
Speaker 2: down your speech. The next thing is adrenaline also causes
Speaker 2: you to speed and speak really quickly. So before you
Speaker 2: go into a presentation or something that's making universe, get
Speaker 2: rid of the adrenaline. Some brisk walking, do a couple
Speaker 2: of push ups. Do some star jumps. I know you
Speaker 2: call them jumping Jackson. Yeah, mate, it's not called a
Speaker 2: jumping jack it's a star jup. Mate.
Speaker 1: So do a kind of star jumps in English?
Speaker 2: Are you doing? Yeah? Americas have it wrong? Yes, who
Speaker 2: the hell is jack? So all of a sudden, I
Speaker 2: do twenty star jumps, right, And when you do that,
Speaker 2: you get rid of all the adrenaline. The Adrenaline is
Speaker 2: what makes you shake and also what makes you speak
Speaker 2: really quickly, because when you start to shake, it's sending
Speaker 2: signals to your brain that you're nervous. Now you start
Speaker 2: to think you're nervous, and when when you think you're never
Speaker 2: know you're speaking really quickly. Right, So again, these things
Speaker 2: help slow you down. Now, those are things you can
Speaker 2: do before you're going. One last thing you can do
Speaker 2: before you're going, Actually, is what makes us really nervous
Speaker 2: is being self conscious. But you can only be self
Speaker 2: conscious if you're thinking about yourself. So then stop thinking
Speaker 2: about yourself and realize it was not about you. If
Speaker 2: you're going on stage, it's not about you. It's about
Speaker 2: every single person you're going to serve. And I'll be
Speaker 2: honest with you too. Coming here, I felt a bit nervous, right,
Speaker 2: but then I thought to myself, it's not about me.
Speaker 2: It's about me trying to add as much value as
Speaker 2: I can to Jay's audience, and it's about Jay. I
Speaker 2: want to connect with Jay. And the moment I made
Speaker 2: it about you and I made it about the audience
Speaker 2: that we're about to serve, I had no cognitive capacity
Speaker 2: left to be nervous because I'm thinking about myself. So
Speaker 2: to me, these three small tools you got the breathing,
Speaker 2: get rid of the adrenaline, and mindset shift. It helps
Speaker 2: calm you down. And now when you go in, if
Speaker 2: you find yourself racing in it, then pause and take
Speaker 2: a deep breath. And that's how you can remedy it.
Speaker 2: Because if you go in you're like, oh, I'm here,
Speaker 2: I'm really exacted. You take a deep breath and then
Speaker 2: continue speaking, and right after the deep breath, it's going
Speaker 2: to slow your speech right down. Even when I did it,
Speaker 2: there all of a sudden, feel more relaxed. Now. Yeah,
Speaker 2: the reason people aren't comfortable with the pause is because
Speaker 2: they don't know what the pause is for, right And
Speaker 2: when you think the pause is useless, that's why you
Speaker 2: develop the behavior of filling the pause, always talking non
Speaker 2: filler words as well, and so liked you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. We do that because we don't understand the
Speaker 2: power of the pause. Whereas the pause allows people to
Speaker 2: process what you're saying. Think about it now, listeners, as
Speaker 2: you're listening to that, the moment I paused, you just
Speaker 2: did it again. You had a moment to process the
Speaker 2: things that I was saying. If I just talk really
Speaker 2: quickly and I don't pause at all when I'm talking,
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, now everything that I say has
Speaker 2: no clear points because you don't have any time to
Speaker 2: process anything that I'm saying. All of a sudden, everything
Speaker 2: after all becomes mumba jumpo, right, it just becomes nothing.
Speaker 2: Whereas pausing gives people time to process, pausing gives you
Speaker 2: time to breathe so that you can relax, so that
Speaker 2: you don't speak too quickly. There are so many benefits
Speaker 2: to it. I mean, think of music again. I love
Speaker 2: using music analogies because the most important note in an
Speaker 2: orchestra happens after a crescendo, which is what silence. They'll
Speaker 2: build the peak and then all of a sudden, musicians
Speaker 2: will play and play and or get to this peak
Speaker 2: moment and then just nothing, and the audience is in
Speaker 2: awe of what they just experienced.
Speaker 1: You speak about it so powerfully and it's so convincing.
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is this has to hear because I
Speaker 1: applied that even and that came come back to zoom calls, meetings, everything.
Speaker 1: I think it's so important to not feel that the
Speaker 1: person who talks. The fastest is the one who will
Speaker 1: get their point in. And I think that's sometimes the
Speaker 1: thing of like, hey, guys, I just really want to
Speaker 1: say this with you, because if we just if we
Speaker 1: just did this, this would solve everything, Like this is
Speaker 1: the thing. And it's almost like you've actually lost all
Speaker 1: importance because of that pace.
Speaker 2: Also because there's no clarity. Yes, if people don't process
Speaker 2: anything that you say, there's no clarity. Yes, you have
Speaker 2: to think about communication is not what I just send.
Speaker 2: It's how it's being received. Right, It's not oh, I've
Speaker 2: sent it, it's done, it's out there. What do you
Speaker 2: think I don't even remember what you said? Yeah, And
Speaker 2: I think I think that's a that's a big mistake.
Speaker 2: And and often people do that again because they don't understand
Speaker 2: that the way you deliver has an impact on how
Speaker 2: others receive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I really appreciate your which to the audience consciousness
Speaker 1: versus the US consciousness, because it seems really small, it
Speaker 1: seems really obvious, it seems kind of of course that
Speaker 1: makes sense, but it really is everything. Yeah, Because all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, if you're thinking about being impressive, that's
Speaker 1: a really hard place to live. From because now you're
Speaker 1: judging every word that comes out of your mouth and
Speaker 1: judging whether it's impressive, whether it's powerful, whether it's profound,
Speaker 1: whether it's whatever it is. And now you actually have
Speaker 1: no thinking space. Yes to actually be profound, impressive and
Speaker 1: all those things you want it to be, it's just
Speaker 1: not possible. Whereas if you are thinking, Hey, what's that
Speaker 1: person in the audience struggling with? What are they really
Speaker 1: struggling with? What's their challenge? What's the thing that And
Speaker 1: that's why, that's how we started this conversation. I was like,
Speaker 1: what's everyone worried about when they come to you? Because
Speaker 1: to me, that's the most important thing. And if I
Speaker 1: know that what they're worried about is their acts and
Speaker 1: their voice, their whatever it may be, now all of
Speaker 1: a sudden I can address that and I can speak
Speaker 1: to that, and actually I can make them aware that
Speaker 1: I'm aware of that. And that's the same in a meeting.
Speaker 1: I think sometimes if someone said to me in a meeting, Jay,
Speaker 1: I know that you really want the podcast to be
Speaker 1: a special place for people to really learn, grow and heal.
Speaker 1: I know that it's a big priority in your life,
Speaker 1: and I know that it's something that you put your
Speaker 1: heart into for six years. This is how to make
Speaker 1: it better. All of a sudden, I'm like, I'm all
Speaker 1: is because I feel like you actually get where I'm
Speaker 1: at and where I'm coming from. Whereas everyone said, Hey,
Speaker 1: you know, I've just got this really great idea i
Speaker 1: want to share with you all of us, Like, well,
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's a great idea or not,
Speaker 1: because I don't even know if we're on the same page.
Speaker 1: And so walk me through some of the ways people
Speaker 1: can establish by what they're saying and how they want.
Speaker 1: You did this beautiful video well there's you're one. But
Speaker 1: I loved it. I absolutely loved it, and I realized
Speaker 1: I do it unconsciously, and when I saw you explain it,
Speaker 1: I was like, there you go. That's why. That's why
Speaker 1: you're such a great coach and such a great teacher.
Speaker 1: It was that idea of meeting people where they're at,
Speaker 1: and you were saying that when people come to you
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, then you're amazing on stage and
Speaker 1: you were great and they speak really quietly, and you said,
Speaker 1: if you come back to that and go, yeah, what
Speaker 1: did you like about it?
Speaker 2: Or even worse like, oh, thank you so much, ah,
Speaker 2: because you bring sometimes you bring that stage persona straight
Speaker 2: down yeah. Oh yeah, And how did I learn that?
Speaker 2: Because that's what I started with. Yeah, and you see
Speaker 2: them and then they freak out. But that's why I
Speaker 2: want to ask you, So, how do we do that
Speaker 2: in a meeting? How do we do that in our
Speaker 2: daily life? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Where sometimes what we're saying, but also how we're saying it,
Speaker 1: we're not even giving it the importance it deserves. How
Speaker 1: do we establish more authority and influence when we are
Speaker 1: sharing an idea, when we are proposing a method.
Speaker 2: You've heard a lot of body language experts say you
Speaker 2: mentioned mirror people, Yes, right, to build rapport, to make
Speaker 2: it about them, to build a connection you met, mirror
Speaker 2: their body language. But what a lot of people don't
Speaker 2: realize is you can also match and mirror their vocal foundations.
Speaker 2: So when you think about the voice and you divide
Speaker 2: it into five different categories, and you think it from
Speaker 2: the perspective of rate of speech, volume, pitch, and melody,
Speaker 2: tonality and the pause, now all of a sudden, you
Speaker 2: have these five factors that you can start to think
Speaker 2: about when you're talking to people. So if someone comes
Speaker 2: up to you and they're naturally speaking a little bit
Speaker 2: quickly because they're nervous, right like that, and they're speaking
Speaker 2: a little bit lower volume, and their melody is not
Speaker 2: as great of a range, and you notice these things,
Speaker 2: then you match in your mirror where they are with
Speaker 2: their voice too, And then people immediately feel like, oh,
Speaker 2: you're approachable. Yes, And it's not that we stay there
Speaker 2: because some people go, oh, but that's in authority, that's
Speaker 2: not right. No, No, that that's you being a great and
Speaker 2: dynamic communicator. That's you going, hey, I'm going to meet
Speaker 2: you where you are to make you feel comfortable, to
Speaker 2: build connection, to make it about you meet them where
Speaker 2: they are, and then slowly you take them back out.
Speaker 2: So if you're meeting them without you go oh, hey,
Speaker 2: thank you for coming up and saying hello. But hey,
Speaker 2: can I just ask you quickly too, what did you
Speaker 2: really take away? What was the key thing you took away?
Speaker 2: Oh you took that away. Oh that's awesome. Hey, I'm
Speaker 2: so happy that you came up and had a chat
Speaker 2: with me all of a sudden. Now, once you're in raport,
Speaker 2: you can take them to where you want to go.
Speaker 2: And that's something you can take onto a zoom call.
Speaker 2: You meet them where they are, right. If someone's really
Speaker 2: excited about an idea they want to bring to you,
Speaker 2: you can meet them there with that excitement to show
Speaker 2: them respect, right, as opposed to a lot of the
Speaker 2: times previously in my life, someone will come to be
Speaker 2: really excited and I have one gear, Jay, and I'm
Speaker 2: just one gear. I'm like, oh, that sounds really cool. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's great, awesome man, And I didn't realize that then
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, I made them feel less important,
Speaker 2: whereas now, all of a sudden, I've learned that, Ah,
Speaker 2: when someone comes to me with a peak emotion, even
Speaker 2: if it's frustration, I will mirror that for them to
Speaker 2: show them the hey, I feel you. It's like, oh man,
Speaker 2: that sucks.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So it's not just in the words that I use.
Speaker 2: I deliver it in a way so that they can
Speaker 2: hear that I'm with you and I'm on the same page. Yes,
Speaker 2: it's one of the fastest ways to build raport with people.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's so important because you could a
Speaker 1: zoom call and someone turns up and they're in a
Speaker 1: really sad, low mood. Yeah, and in your head you think,
Speaker 1: come on, like, come on, bring more energy, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: and then you get frustrated. Yeah, and now you feel
Speaker 1: you're dragging them up a hill. Whereas if you were like, hey,
Speaker 1: I just want to check in with you, like you're right, yeah,
Speaker 1: how's it going?
Speaker 2: You lower your volume two? Yeah, you meet them where
Speaker 2: they are. Hey. You know notice it on the other
Speaker 2: call you weren't. Are you okay? And all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: people are way more likely to open up if you
Speaker 2: used your instrument of that way as opposed to, oh mate,
Speaker 2: what's going on? Yeah, what's going on?
Speaker 4: Man?
Speaker 2: Come on, look at the weather outside. It's amazing today.
Speaker 2: What's going on? They're definitely not opening up to that person.
Speaker 2: But I didn't have that sensitivity growing up, No sensitivity.
Speaker 2: I didn't know why so many of my relationships when
Speaker 2: I was young would fail. Like I remember one of
Speaker 2: my partners when I was really young, where I would
Speaker 2: ask her. I'd say to her on a Friday night,
Speaker 2: I'm like, hey, I know we've got dinner plans tonight,
Speaker 2: but the guys are doing a land party and we're
Speaker 2: going to go play CS go Can I go? And
Speaker 2: you'll go yeah, Fine, just go then, and I just
Speaker 2: went you are the most amazing girlfriend in I thought
Speaker 2: you would have said no. And then a way next
Speaker 2: day you broke up with me, and I was like
Speaker 2: why And I'd listen to backstrop boys and I'd be like,
Speaker 2: why did you break up? Is she? But she said yes?
Speaker 2: And that's when I went through that eraror. I was like, woman,
Speaker 2: are so confusing, it doesn't make sense. She said I
Speaker 2: could go. And it was because I wasn't listening to
Speaker 2: the emotion in the voice. I didn't even have that gear. Man,
Speaker 2: I just thought what people said, Oh, that's it. I
Speaker 2: take you for what you said, so it's fine.
Speaker 1: So it's fine and we justify it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you think?
Speaker 1: No, but you did say but you said yes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know I did, but but that's not the point.
Speaker 2: And then yeah, but again all of a sudden having sensitivity.
Speaker 2: Now I've got so many different gears now, Jay, And
Speaker 2: that's the analogy I love to use too, is that
Speaker 2: because sometimes a lot of people feel that, oh, there's
Speaker 2: only one version of me, and Jay, this is the
Speaker 2: only version of me, and I'm this version of me
Speaker 2: in every situation. That's like having a car with one gear.
Speaker 2: We are so much more dynamic that than as a
Speaker 2: human being. And I get my shoes to think of
Speaker 2: this all the time. Think about when you're angry. You
Speaker 2: use your voice differently, you use your body language differently
Speaker 2: when you've done something wrong. And when I've done something
Speaker 2: like I've maybe stayed out with the guys too late
Speaker 2: one night, I come home, I talk different to my wife.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I know, yep, I'm sorry, and I'm very sheepish.
Speaker 2: You you're different when you've done something wrong. We use
Speaker 2: our instrument differently in every single one of those situations,
Speaker 2: but when we don't consciously think about it, sometimes we
Speaker 2: can default to just one gear. I shopped at the
Speaker 2: interview the exact same way I shopped, and we shopped
Speaker 2: in just one rigid gear, and we go, why am
Speaker 2: I not standing out? Why don't I get more attention?
Speaker 2: Why don't I get that promotion that I deserve? Yeah,
Speaker 2: you've got to learn to be more dynamic.
Speaker 1: I'm really glad you made that point, because I was
Speaker 1: saying that to you earlier. When I'm on the podcast,
Speaker 1: I'm a certain way because it's a conversation, yes, But
Speaker 1: when I'm on stage I get the license to be
Speaker 1: funny and yes, banter with people and bring people in
Speaker 1: the audience into that conversation because I can yeah version
Speaker 1: of you totally. I always say that when I'm on stage,
Speaker 1: I'm the three to sixty version of myself because I
Speaker 1: get to be all things yes to everyone that I
Speaker 1: want to be. Whereas here I'm having a one to
Speaker 1: one conversation. This is kind of what I'm like when
Speaker 1: I'm having a one to one conversation with a friend,
Speaker 1: a family member, whatever it may be, because that's my
Speaker 1: natural way of being. And then if I'm making a
Speaker 1: video where there's no people, I find it that's like
Speaker 1: the most minimal version of me. Yeah, because it's to me,
Speaker 1: it's all about energy exchange. Yes, So if I'm in
Speaker 1: a room full of ten twenty thirty people, maybe ten
Speaker 1: thousand people, there's so much energy to play with. It
Speaker 1: can be fun, it can be this. It could be
Speaker 1: that when I'm with you, we're matching each other's energy.
Speaker 1: And then if I'm on my own and it's just
Speaker 1: a camera, then i can think about who's going to
Speaker 1: watch it. But really, I'm only letting one percent of
Speaker 1: me be me for me, for me, I'm saying. I'm
Speaker 1: not saying that's the way for everyone. Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, but it brings up a really important insight that
Speaker 2: I learned along the way, and it's that be as
Speaker 2: big as the room.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: And you notice how sometimes people do this incorrectly. And
Speaker 2: I used to be one of those people. Tell me
Speaker 2: how you do that incorrect well, because I when I
Speaker 2: first learned about all this, I went, oh, wow, this
Speaker 2: is amazing. I'm going to bring this and then and
Speaker 2: I'll bring this, and then people are like, ah, it's
Speaker 2: a little bit of a winker. That's a bit much,
Speaker 2: don't you think. And I used to do that because
Speaker 2: I had no sensitivity. I just thought, oh no, this
Speaker 2: is really good. I should be like this all the time.
Speaker 2: And then I realized, oh wow, no, no, no, just
Speaker 2: that simple rule of be as big as the room. Again,
Speaker 2: the version of you I'm assuming if you're in front
Speaker 2: of ten thousand people. Imagine we're in front of ten
Speaker 2: thousand people and we went out like, OHI everyone, it's
Speaker 2: great to be here, and I'm excited to It won't work,
Speaker 2: it won't work right unless your ear totally then it's
Speaker 2: totally fine. That's on brand, right, whereas all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: you need to bring a much bigger version of you.
Speaker 2: But you have to develop that sensitivity. Whereas I see
Speaker 2: sometimes when my students were new to communications, they missed
Speaker 2: the mark and usually they're too small. Yes, more often
Speaker 2: than not they have this fear I'm going to be
Speaker 2: too much.
Speaker 1: No, no, no.
Speaker 2: The danger is not your too much. The danger is
Speaker 2: that you've been living way too small. For me. It's
Speaker 2: always about pushing them up. But the fear they have is, oh,
Speaker 2: but it's too much. I'm like, no, no, no, no, it's too little.
Speaker 2: You're playing too small. Right. So again, that sensitivity is
Speaker 2: important to develop. You're with thirty people. It's a different
Speaker 2: version of you, and it's okay because you you have
Speaker 2: to be a bigger version of you to be effective
Speaker 2: in that medium. Yes, otherwise will seem like you don't care.
Speaker 2: Otherwise sometimes it can come across like you don't care.
Speaker 1: It's such an art and what we're talking about is
Speaker 1: obviously the spectrum of yes, you know, the kind of
Speaker 1: like the expertise, the mastery, all the way through to
Speaker 1: the challenge. And it does blow my mind that public
Speaker 1: speaking comes out as the number one fear in the world,
Speaker 1: and seventy five percent of the world's population is scared
Speaker 1: of public speaking, and it's something we have to do
Speaker 1: every single day.
Speaker 2: And people think, but I'm not on stage. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: anytime you open your mouth in public, that's public speaking, right,
Speaker 2: it is public speaking. Yeah, you're publicly speaking every single day.
Speaker 2: And that also shows an opportunity. Jay, if seventy five
Speaker 2: percent of people fear it, that means only one in
Speaker 2: four people kind of do it. So if you can
Speaker 2: get good at this skill, you now have a competitive end.
Speaker 2: And one of the greatest things that I've noticed is
Speaker 2: that why do creators become such great communicators they do?
Speaker 2: I mean watch creators. Why do they become such great communicators?
Speaker 2: It's because they film themselves every single day and they
Speaker 2: watch it back and they notice behaviors that serve them,
Speaker 2: and they notice behaviors that don't serve them, and then
Speaker 2: they remove the behaviors that don't serve them. Because one
Speaker 2: of these things that I ask a lot of creators,
Speaker 2: I always ask them like, so, what formal communication trainings
Speaker 2: you do? And they're like, what what are you talking
Speaker 2: about it. I'm like, I had to learn so many
Speaker 2: years to and from that simple that's why I want
Speaker 2: to bring it back again for the listeners. Right, that
Speaker 2: simple process. If you just committed to the process of
Speaker 2: recording yourself once a week, you will now have one
Speaker 2: of the competitive edges that all creators have. They're impeccable communicators.
Speaker 2: And why do you keep going back to the creators
Speaker 2: that you love every single week you keep watching every video.
Speaker 2: It's because they're able to form a connection with you.
Speaker 2: What skill are they using to form that connection with you?
Speaker 2: The ability to communicate and articulate ideas with clarity. So
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, now you kind of see that
Speaker 2: hidden secret there where it's about they just keep putting
Speaker 2: in the reps.
Speaker 1: It's I never even put two into together. It's such
Speaker 1: a great point that they're actually practicing that exact method.
Speaker 1: But first, here's a quick word from the brands that
Speaker 1: support the show. All right, thank you to our sponsors.
Speaker 1: Now let's dive back in. When I left the monastery
Speaker 1: and I got a job at Centure, we had someone
Speaker 1: come and do public speaking training while we're at the company.
Speaker 1: I wish it was you, it wasn't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would have been terrible at it at the time.
Speaker 1: But they had us film ourselves and it was really
Speaker 1: interesting to me. I believed at that point that I
Speaker 1: was I was. I wouldn't say I was a seasoned speaker,
Speaker 1: but I was a very experienced speaker, because even as
Speaker 1: a monk, I gave, you know, three hour lectures every day,
Speaker 1: and so there was a lot of speaking involved in
Speaker 1: teaching from scripture and wisdom and that we had. But
Speaker 1: it was really interesting. As a monk, I would sit
Speaker 1: and speak like you'd sit on a low It's called
Speaker 1: a vassa san in the Indian language, and what it
Speaker 1: would be described as, I guess it's a very low
Speaker 1: bench like you may have seen it in movies or
Speaker 1: whatever it may be. It's just very very low, and
Speaker 1: it's it's a small seat, and so you're sitting cross legged.
Speaker 1: Low it's position, and your hands are usually in there
Speaker 1: and you may use some hand gestures, but generally they're
Speaker 1: rested and it's a smaller group. I would stand and
Speaker 1: talk if I was giving a talk to university students,
Speaker 1: which I did while I was a monk as well,
Speaker 1: and maybe there'd be a circle of people. But then
Speaker 1: we videoed ourselves and it was really interesting. I found
Speaker 1: myself in that video, just doing this the whole time.
Speaker 1: And then I watched that video back and I found
Speaker 1: that that's all I did with my hands at that time,
Speaker 1: and it was so powerful to be able to see
Speaker 1: how you and it looked so cringe, right, it just
Speaker 1: but it's like every time I made a point, I
Speaker 1: do this, and then I'd come back to here, and
Speaker 1: that's a very like you know, as a monk, our
Speaker 1: palms would actually we rested in meditation whatever. And it
Speaker 1: was so interesting how I'd taken that habit right into
Speaker 1: my work life. Oh right, right, And I was giving
Speaker 1: a corporate talk at the time. But what I'm saying
Speaker 1: is I'm reiterating the point of needing to film yourself
Speaker 1: speaking like I stand by it fully and I think
Speaker 1: you're spot on. Make you people to do it.
Speaker 2: It's so cooled to geek out on this. Yes, you've
Speaker 2: had so much training in this arena. Right now, even
Speaker 2: as you listen to this to the listener, you already
Speaker 2: know what great communication looks like because you've been to
Speaker 2: a conference and a speaker walks out on stage. Within
Speaker 2: ten seconds, you now make a decision whether you're listening
Speaker 2: or your life and you'd make a big decision whether
Speaker 2: you're you're going to go to your now social media
Speaker 2: feed or not. Right, So, there are certain cues that
Speaker 2: you recognize as being cues that are engaging. Oh the
Speaker 2: way they're using their voice, I'm in the way they're
Speaker 2: using their body language. Oh, I'm in right. So you
Speaker 2: already have all of that information in your mind. But
Speaker 2: here's where it gets interesting. You've never applied any of
Speaker 2: those ideas in your head to yourself. So you'll be
Speaker 2: shocked because again, when you all of a sudden watch yourself,
Speaker 2: you go, oh, no, I come across like Barry. Ah, no,
Speaker 2: sorry to the Barry's out there, just pick the random name.
Speaker 2: But again they go, no, I come across like Barry.
Speaker 2: But that's because again you've been avoiding this your entire life. Yes,
Speaker 2: and then the reason why I wanted to bring it up again.
Speaker 2: I'm so glad you brought up again is because if
Speaker 2: there's one thing you do if you listen to this
Speaker 2: episode is record a video of yourself, and you'll think
Speaker 2: Jay and I later because you'll see things that you
Speaker 2: didn't realize. You know, you have so much beautiful knowledge
Speaker 2: already in your mind about what makes a great communicator,
Speaker 2: because why are you drawn to a certain YouTube video
Speaker 2: and a certain creator. You've already had these internal references
Speaker 2: in your mind of what great communication is for you. Yes,
Speaker 2: And all of a sudden, now you get to apply
Speaker 2: the same list of things to yourself. Do you know
Speaker 2: how cool that is? That is so cool? And which
Speaker 2: brings me to my next point where my students ask me.
Speaker 2: They go, well, well, then how do I become myself? Though?
Speaker 2: How do I find my Because I always talk about
Speaker 2: this present version of you and your way too attached
Speaker 2: to it. Let go of the present version of you,
Speaker 2: give the future version of you a chance. And they go, well,
Speaker 2: how do we make that transition? Well, I say, look,
Speaker 2: first of all, just record yourself. But then after that,
Speaker 2: as you begin this journey. I view the journey of
Speaker 2: being a great communicator like the journey of becoming a
Speaker 2: great chef. So how would you become a great chef?
Speaker 2: You would go out and you would look for a
Speaker 2: great chef, and you would look for one of the recipes.
Speaker 2: You buy the recipe book, and then you'd copy the
Speaker 2: recipe right and then at the beginning you copy the
Speaker 2: recipe almost exactly, and then you start cooking it, and
Speaker 2: you eat it and you go, I didn't think that's
Speaker 2: what the chef was intending. So you copy a little
Speaker 2: closer and you go, oh, I did the method wrong.
Speaker 2: And then as you copy closer, you go, oh, wow,
Speaker 2: that day's amazing. And then as you cook it a
Speaker 2: few more times, you gain the confidence now to go,
Speaker 2: you know what, I'm going to add a little more chili.
Speaker 2: I got to say that the chef didn't put enough chili.
Speaker 2: You put a bit more chili, you put a little lemon,
Speaker 2: you put a little bit of more garlic, onion, everything,
Speaker 2: and now you make it your own. Same thing with
Speaker 2: communication skills, Yes, if you want to get some inspiration,
Speaker 2: go look up your top five communicators.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then.
Speaker 2: Sit down watch if you break it down, what are
Speaker 2: they doing that you love so much? Try those on.
Speaker 2: Now you have an ocean of different behaviors to play with,
Speaker 2: and you'll try some of them on.
Speaker 1: You go, that's not me.
Speaker 2: Like, same with me. When I first started speaking on stage,
Speaker 2: I admired Anthony Robins so much. I was like, wow,
Speaker 2: because I've read his books that changed my life, and
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm going to try to be like
Speaker 2: Anthony Robbins and I jumped up and I did it,
Speaker 2: and it felt so wrong because I was like, this
Speaker 2: is not me, but that was okay. I had to
Speaker 2: have done that to know it wasn't for me. I
Speaker 2: had to have eaten that dish to know I didn't
Speaker 2: like the flavor. But too many of us judge it
Speaker 2: before we try it. Absolutely, I'm not even gonna try
Speaker 2: that dish. No, try it, because that's how I discovered
Speaker 2: some of my favorite dishes in my life. Was I
Speaker 2: resisted it, tried it, loved it, loved it after that.
Speaker 2: So again, start looking up a list of five communicators
Speaker 2: that you love and then just pick a few different
Speaker 2: things from them and try it on. Yeah, it's all right.
Speaker 1: We share one of our favorite communicators, which is a
Speaker 1: bit more obscure that most people may not be aware
Speaker 1: of it, may not see him as a communicator's Darren.
Speaker 1: I think Darren is absolutely Darren is my favorite person
Speaker 1: on stage.
Speaker 2: To what showmanship? Yeah, showmanship is a magician's fancy word
Speaker 2: for communication skills. Yeah right, unbelievab showmanship.
Speaker 1: Everything from the humor to the pacing, to the body language,
Speaker 1: to when to sit, when to stand.
Speaker 2: Mastery, yeah, yeah, it makes you want to give up
Speaker 2: magic when you see someone like that.
Speaker 1: He's too good, too good for sure.
Speaker 2: And I remember doing a trip to the UK my wife.
Speaker 2: My wife likes Dane Brown, not she just doesn't love Darren.
Speaker 1: Same sentences.
Speaker 2: We followed him to three cities to watch the same show.
Speaker 2: So that's why my wife couldn't stand it by the
Speaker 2: end of it. But I watched the same show three times.
Speaker 2: I loved it even more the third time. What you
Speaker 2: talked about before, his ability to execute what they call
Speaker 2: planned spontaneity is unbelievable. That is such a skill, like
Speaker 2: your comedian friend. Yes, even though it happens nearly every night,
Speaker 2: people think it's random. Yes, but it happens every night
Speaker 2: plant spontanety. He made it look spontaneous every single time,
Speaker 2: and I appreciate it every moment of that. I was like,
Speaker 2: how did you make that looks even more fresh than
Speaker 2: the first two times? It's incredible, But that's what it is.
Speaker 1: I love hearing that story that you went there three
Speaker 1: times even though you knew what trick he was going
Speaker 1: to do. It's because that's what you're doing. You're studying
Speaker 1: the art of what worked and then the other speech
Speaker 1: that I love, probably my favorite favorite favorite speech of
Speaker 1: all time that I've listened to the most at least,
Speaker 1: is Steve Jobs's Standford commencement speech. And it's a really
Speaker 1: interesting speech because there's nobody gestures, there's no use of hands,
Speaker 1: there's nothing. It's potentially even monotonous. I think he speaks
Speaker 1: at the same volume pretty much the whole time, but
Speaker 1: there's something just so profound. His voice is phenomenal. It
Speaker 1: talked to me through why that works. Why are so
Speaker 1: many people love that speech apart from it being Steve Jobs,
Speaker 1: Because I don't like to be like, oh, it was
Speaker 1: a good speech because it was Steve everyone loved it. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: there was still something. I mean, the content's insane.
Speaker 2: But think of from the perspective of music, Yeah, right,
Speaker 2: there are times that lyrics can be so powerful. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that the way you play that song is irrelevant because
Speaker 2: the lyrics of it speak to your heart. Yes, it's
Speaker 2: so strong that it doesn't matter how you play, it
Speaker 2: hits you. And that's where you can lean into the content.
Speaker 2: There is some content that is just so powerful that
Speaker 2: regardless of delivery, it hits because of the profound nature
Speaker 2: that exists within the lyrics. And then I've seen pianists
Speaker 2: play Twinkle Twinkle, Little Star, and I was flabbergust. One
Speaker 2: of the most basic songs you've ever heard, and the
Speaker 2: way they added chords to it and the rhythm and
Speaker 2: the way they really I've never heard to go to
Speaker 2: a little star of that. So you can take something
Speaker 2: basic and use delivery to make it amazing, or you
Speaker 2: could take something truly profound and have no delivery and
Speaker 2: is just as an amazing And that's the beauty of music,
Speaker 2: that's the beauty of poles and art, and it's the
Speaker 2: beauty of that right. And you just have to determine
Speaker 2: for you with what you're currently doing, does it have
Speaker 2: that level of profoundness and can you keep that level
Speaker 2: of profoundness that consistently throughout this life where you can
Speaker 2: just forget about delivery. And if you can, damn good
Speaker 2: for you. That's amazing. Yeah, yeah, thing, job, that's incredible,
Speaker 2: and everything you say is that potent. Then you don't
Speaker 2: have to worry about your communication skills because one of
Speaker 2: the I'm sure you get this, you get trolls, but
Speaker 2: I always have trolls of my content where They're like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: but then what about Elon Musk. He doesn't have to work,
Speaker 2: what about his communication skills? And I always say I
Speaker 2: shouldn't ever respond to these, but sometimes it get a
Speaker 2: bit cheeky and I do, and I go listen, mate,
Speaker 2: if you're as smart and intelligent as Elon Musk, forget
Speaker 2: about communication skills. Just get us to mask, make us
Speaker 2: a multiplanetary species, right, I forget about it. Please please
Speaker 2: save the human race. But if you're a mere mortal
Speaker 2: like me, then you probably should work on this skill.
Speaker 2: But do you know what I mean? So again, and sometimes,
Speaker 2: and sometimes you're right. Sometimes when you have something that profound,
Speaker 2: you also want to let go of some of the
Speaker 2: bills and whistles. I agree, you want to let go
Speaker 2: of some of that. Yes, it's a delivery choice and
Speaker 2: a delivery style.
Speaker 1: Yeah. A good balance. One that I've seen is Matthew
Speaker 1: McConaughey's Oscar speech and he accepted for Dallas Buyers Club.
Speaker 1: It's like that perfect balance between he's I mean, he's
Speaker 1: got an amazing voice, phenomenal orator and communicator, and at
Speaker 1: the same time the content so profound, and so you
Speaker 1: see a great marriage of the two in that one
Speaker 1: where there's showmanship, there's performance, and there's potency. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: you're right, I agree with you. I only brought up
Speaker 1: the Steve Jobs one because and I love the way
Speaker 1: you explained. I'm so glad I asked it because that
Speaker 1: idea of the lyrics just being so profound, really just
Speaker 1: read it realized. He literally read it off a piece
Speaker 1: of paper, and you listen to every single word. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, it's so powerful. I was going to ask you,
Speaker 1: people can sense when something feels inauthentic. What are we sensing?
Speaker 2: Misalignment? However, want comes to communication alone. It's usually people
Speaker 2: trying something out that they haven't really ironed out yet.
Speaker 2: And I hope this is not nauseating and people and
Speaker 2: starting to vomit in the back of their throats at
Speaker 2: this point. But when somebody first plays the saxophone, how
Speaker 2: does it sound? Yeah? Yeah, no, Greg, Yeah, I have
Speaker 2: one of those neighbors. Yeah, it's fine, it's fine. I
Speaker 2: find it very sweet as a young kid learning how
Speaker 2: to play right and do you ever sit for a
Speaker 2: moment and going that is the most inauthentic saxophone player
Speaker 2: I've ever heard in my life. No, what a fake
Speaker 2: saxophone player? No, you get that person's learning and I'm
Speaker 2: just making a communication related Yeah, I love it. So
Speaker 2: when I have my students try out things for the
Speaker 2: first time, and they're doing things like this, right, So
Speaker 2: they first learned volume, they like, oh, I've been speaking
Speaker 2: with a low volume my whole life. So then they go, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm going to try to talk like this. Okay, and
Speaker 2: I've just learned hand gesture, so I'm I'm gonna try
Speaker 2: to People immediately look at that and go inauthentic. Yes,
Speaker 2: you're doing something that's not authentic to you. No, no, no,
Speaker 2: I'm like stop. That is someone just starting to learn
Speaker 2: how to play the saxophone. And the moment you call
Speaker 2: them in authentic and fake, do you know what happens
Speaker 2: to them? They're now rev to the same behaviors that've
Speaker 2: been repeating for the last thirty years of their life.
Speaker 2: It's such an intricate moment for someone when they're choosing
Speaker 2: to play their instrument in a different way that you've
Speaker 2: got to help them move towards the future version of them.
Speaker 2: Jay right, And that's what we sense, that inauthentic part
Speaker 2: where we go Oh, this person, I feel like they've
Speaker 2: been in authentic. Yeah, you don't know the backstory. Maybe
Speaker 2: this person is trying to be heard because their entire
Speaker 2: life they've been invisible. And the way that they're trying
Speaker 2: on this new way of speaking is because they're just
Speaker 2: testing out the instrument in a different way. And you
Speaker 2: just caught them on a bad day. You just caught
Speaker 2: them when they were playing poorly. And I think we
Speaker 2: need a little more of that compassion. Yeah, we need
Speaker 2: a little more of that empathy because I've approached that
Speaker 2: and I've made those judgments before myself too. But I've
Speaker 2: also been through that messy middle where when I spoke again,
Speaker 2: I was like a robot, and again I knew that
Speaker 2: people were judging me. But if I didn't have the
Speaker 2: courage in that moment to push through, then I would
Speaker 2: still be the same version of me from fifteen years ago.
Speaker 2: So I feel that from a communication context, when you're
Speaker 2: trying to improve, when people sense that in you, it's
Speaker 2: just you learning how to play the saxophone. Yeah, it's okay.
Speaker 2: So all you've got to do is this. All you're
Speaker 2: going to do is this before you start to play
Speaker 2: with your voice. And your body differently, and you start
Speaker 2: to improve the way you communicate prime your conversations. Say
Speaker 2: say to your partner, say to your neighbor. Before you
Speaker 2: learn the saxophone, say hey, listen, I've been inspired by
Speaker 2: listening to Vin and Jay on the podcast, and I
Speaker 2: want to I want to change the way I use
Speaker 2: my voice. Okay, I've been quite my entire life. I
Speaker 2: want to give you and the kids more energy. If
Speaker 2: you see me speaking with more volume, can you encourage me?
Speaker 2: Because I want to be more. I want to give more. Yeah.
Speaker 2: All of a sudden, if you give that context now
Speaker 2: the next time you're like, hey, honey, I'm home, and
Speaker 2: she was like, oh hey, it's so good to see you.
Speaker 2: Try now with that context, they support you. Without the context.
Speaker 2: If you just immediately come home, they go eh. I
Speaker 2: know what they'll say. They got why are you doing
Speaker 2: that with your voice? Why are you doing that with
Speaker 2: Why are you doing that?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And it's because something my vocal coat used to stay too.
Speaker 2: She used to say this, she goes, your voice is
Speaker 2: your personality. And I used to I'm like what as
Speaker 2: she goes, no, no, no, your voice is your personality. Then
Speaker 2: when people compliment you on your personality. The literal thing
Speaker 2: they're complimenting is how you're playing your instrument. Interesting because
Speaker 2: that's how we perceive personality. We perceive personality through the
Speaker 2: use of the instrument. Personality comes through music. That's why
Speaker 2: you can listen to a soundtrack. I do this experiment
Speaker 2: with my kids, not only my kids, but my students too.
Speaker 2: I love doing this experiment where I just play a
Speaker 2: piano track and I get them to listen to it,
Speaker 2: and I go, what words come to mind? And it's crazy.
Speaker 2: They will say things like my students will say things like,
Speaker 2: oh I hear complexity, I hear drama, I hear oh
Speaker 2: I hear pain, I hear misery, I hear nostalgia, And
Speaker 2: always wake them up to it and I go, do
Speaker 2: you know there were no words in that, none, none, whatsoever.
Speaker 2: Yet you've got a world of meaning from that. People
Speaker 2: get a world of meaning just from the sound of
Speaker 2: your voice and how you use your voice. So if
Speaker 2: you pay no attention to that, that means you're putting
Speaker 2: no intention into how you're coming across.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I love that point, man, I love your
Speaker 1: heart for saying that too. That so much of the
Speaker 1: time when we think someone's inauthentic, it's really just inexperience.
Speaker 2: They're trying something new.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're trying something new and boring, and we always
Speaker 1: look at it and we judge them and we think, oh,
Speaker 1: they're fake that, you know, and half the time it's
Speaker 1: just someone trying to figure something out.
Speaker 2: And then what we don't realize we're doing is then
Speaker 2: we give them negative feedback that immediately puts them into
Speaker 2: the same patterns of behavior that has been causing them
Speaker 2: pain because we're not as compassionate. We see what they do,
Speaker 2: we don't see why they do what they do, right,
Speaker 2: Whereas I think if we took a moment to get
Speaker 2: why would that person do that? Maybe they're exploring their
Speaker 2: instrument right. And I think it was Carl Jung that
Speaker 2: said that, again, we see what people do, we don't
Speaker 2: see why they do what they do.
Speaker 1: Then it's been such a joy talking to you man.
Speaker 1: You are You're brilliant. You're not just a brilliant communicator.
Speaker 1: You've got a great heart to and it comes across
Speaker 1: in the way you want to help people and see
Speaker 1: them grow, and the amount that you've thought through the challenges,
Speaker 1: the trip ups, the all the blocks that we run into. Man,
Speaker 1: it's it's really beautiful and I really thank you and
Speaker 1: commend you for your amazing work and it's it's very special.
Speaker 2: So thank you man, Jay, thank you for giving me
Speaker 2: the opportunity. I'm from Adelaide, South Australia. I never thought
Speaker 2: that I'd ever be able to connect with you in
Speaker 2: person and hang out with you. Joe.
Speaker 1: This is thank you. No, I'm a fan, so it's easy.
Speaker 1: We end every episode of On Purpose with a final five.
Speaker 1: These have to be answered in one word to one sentence, Maxiz, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you can't.
Speaker 2: This is my krypton.
Speaker 1: You can't. Yeah, okay, I'll probably break it for you
Speaker 1: because you're such a good explain. I'll let you do it.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, I won't. I'm going to try to
Speaker 2: stick to pay rules are rules? Okay?
Speaker 1: All right? The first question, what's the best piece of
Speaker 1: communication advice you've ever heard or received?
Speaker 2: Your voice is an instrument. Play all of the songs
Speaker 2: that are trapped within. You don't die with all your
Speaker 2: music trapped inside.
Speaker 1: That was great.
Speaker 2: Sentences, long sentence.
Speaker 1: It's a great. Long sentences are fine. Second question, what's
Speaker 1: the worst communication advice? You've ever had received or given.
Speaker 2: If you're nervous, just look over their heads. I was
Speaker 2: literally given that advice.
Speaker 1: What are you meant you can expland what are you
Speaker 1: meant to do?
Speaker 2: Well? Well, again, you want to look at people, look
Speaker 2: at them in the eyes, because the advice was look
Speaker 2: over their heads. They won't be able to tell. And
Speaker 2: this was my first piece of advice I was given
Speaker 2: when I was going on stage and I started looking
Speaker 2: over people's heads and it just looked like I was arrogant,
Speaker 2: right because I was like, oh hey, ye, good to
Speaker 2: see yo, and I wasn't looking them in the eyes.
Speaker 1: And also, you get no feedback, you have no energetic exchange.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, the worst thing is it's that and then
Speaker 2: you look like an arrogant argain.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting. I never thought about that, all right.
Speaker 1: Question number three on that point, why does our body
Speaker 1: and our handshake when we're nervous.
Speaker 2: It's the excess adrenaline and you have the remedy to
Speaker 2: that in this episode already star jobs.
Speaker 1: I love it. Question number four, what's something that you
Speaker 1: you I used to believe was true about communication, but
Speaker 1: not anymore.
Speaker 2: That I was stuck with the sound of my voice.
Speaker 2: It's just a series of behaviors. If you change the behaviors,
Speaker 2: you change the sound. Example, when I told my dad
Speaker 2: I wanted to leave accounting to become a magician, I
Speaker 2: remember what he said. He said, what the hell you
Speaker 2: want to be? To Harry Potter, literally what he said
Speaker 2: to me. I just changed the way I moved my mouth.
Speaker 2: I just changed the serious of behaviors. I changed the
Speaker 2: sound I was able to create. It's just behaviors.
Speaker 1: Walk me through that conversation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So my mum and dad are refugees on Vietnam
Speaker 2: and they cling to safety insecurity because of fear. And
Speaker 2: they've known fear all of their lives. So I remember
Speaker 2: coming home saying a woman and dad, I said, Mom, dad,
Speaker 2: I really want to quit university. And obviously they wanted
Speaker 2: me to fulfill the Asian prophecy. Obviously same with your parents. Yes,
Speaker 2: I'm sure I had this really heart to heart conversation
Speaker 2: with him where I said, Mom, Dad, why did you
Speaker 2: escape the wall?
Speaker 1: Why?
Speaker 2: And they said, we escaped because we want to find
Speaker 2: a better home for you. But I'm like, yeah, but
Speaker 2: why why was Vietnam at the time not a good home?
Speaker 2: Why is Australia about a home and they said freedom
Speaker 2: And I said, oh great, so you you made the
Speaker 2: decision to flee to Australia for freedom, then do you
Speaker 2: want to force me into a career that's going to
Speaker 2: create misery for me? Is that what you want? And
Speaker 2: I know why you're doing this because of love, Mum
Speaker 2: and dad, because you're you're so afraid. But we're not
Speaker 2: in Vietnam anymore. We're in Australia. We're free. And I
Speaker 2: know that the reason you came here is to give
Speaker 2: me the freedom to do what I love. And I
Speaker 2: was able to wake them up from fear and remember
Speaker 2: the main reason why they came here in the first place,
Speaker 2: because their lives were driven by fear of not enough
Speaker 2: of we're in danger, and they still carried all of
Speaker 2: that fear. They didn't realize it. And when I woke
Speaker 2: them up to that, it was such a beautiful conversation
Speaker 2: because it was always like, my parents will reminded, no, no,
Speaker 2: thank you for reminding us. We've been so driven by
Speaker 2: fear our entire lives. Because I said to them, I
Speaker 2: did work experience at an accounting firm, and Dad, do
Speaker 2: you know what they all do on a Friday night,
Speaker 2: they go drinking because they're drowning their sorrows in something
Speaker 2: they don't like. And I'm sure people love accounting, it's
Speaker 2: just where I did work experience, they didn't love it.
Speaker 2: They dreaded every day, right, And I said, that's me.
Speaker 2: That's going to be me. That that's the path I'm walking.
Speaker 2: So I already know that's not the path, you know.
Speaker 2: And then the most beautiful thing my dad said to me,
Speaker 2: after realizing all of this is he goes, you still
Speaker 2: owe me one thing, though, Boy, in this life, you
Speaker 2: have to jump as high as you can. And as
Speaker 2: long as I'm alive, I'll forever be your net. And
Speaker 2: I needed that net a lot of times. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: I tested that net many times. And I share this
Speaker 2: now in a long answer because Jay, I'm sitting here
Speaker 2: having achieved things I've achieved because of my mom and
Speaker 2: my dad. Without that net, without their support, without their love,
Speaker 2: without their guidance, I wouldn't be here, been able to
Speaker 2: do this. And I think this is true for those
Speaker 2: listening to you. Would not be where you are if
Speaker 2: it wasn't for whether it's the families we choose or
Speaker 2: the family who were born into. If it wasn't for them,
Speaker 2: we would not be who we are, we would not
Speaker 2: be where we are. They must be really proud now, yeah,
Speaker 2: they still and then you quit magic. The first time
Speaker 2: my dad came and saw me speak at the end
Speaker 2: of it, the funniest thing. He comes up to me
Speaker 2: and he goes, they pay you for this. He was
Speaker 2: so mind blowing because he goes, because I wouldn't. He
Speaker 2: was just he was so shocked. He couldn't believe that,
Speaker 2: he couldn't believe it was a thing. He couldn't believe
Speaker 2: that professional speaking was a career.
Speaker 4: Part.
Speaker 1: Yes, but it's so beautiful to see their mind open up.
Speaker 2: And then the most beautiful thing my dad said to
Speaker 2: me recently, this was maybe in the last five years,
Speaker 2: where he came up to me and he said, thanks
Speaker 2: for not giving up on me. Because there was a
Speaker 2: lot of conversations at the time in many different Vietnamese
Speaker 2: famili where the kids would give up on their parents,
Speaker 2: where it'd be like, you know, if you're not supporting
Speaker 2: me stuff you yeah, now, whereas I really didn't give
Speaker 2: up on my parents. I remember my first magic kig
Speaker 2: I did and I made like fifteen hundred bucks for
Speaker 2: performing for an hour. This was like outrageous, this is
Speaker 2: a week's worth of work, right, And I bought home
Speaker 2: the cash and I was like, Dad, look I got
Speaker 2: this in an hour. And I celebrated that moment with him.
Speaker 2: I made him a part of that because I knew
Speaker 2: that I had to slowly show him what's possible. I
Speaker 2: couldn't all of a sudden go dad, refugee in through
Speaker 2: the war, and it immediately said magician to him. It's like,
Speaker 2: what the frick is that? That doesn't make sense. But as
Speaker 2: I slowly shared my wins with him on my journey,
Speaker 2: I was able to open my dad's mind. So my
Speaker 2: dad got to be a part of the journey with
Speaker 2: me and my mum. And when he thanked me for that,
Speaker 2: it was one of the sweetest moments because you could
Speaker 2: have very easily gave up on me, and now we
Speaker 2: have this beautiful relationship and it's one of my most
Speaker 2: important relationships.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's beautiful, man, Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 2: That counts as one word.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, I wanted to hear it. Fifth and
Speaker 1: final question We asked this every guest who's ever been
Speaker 1: on the show, if you could create one law that
Speaker 1: everyone in the world had to follow. What would it be?
Speaker 2: Use your instrument to spread more love, kindness and compassion.
Speaker 1: Vinjiang, thank you so much, such an honor having you here.
Speaker 1: I hope I get to do this many many more
Speaker 1: times together.
Speaker 2: Thank you Jack.
Speaker 1: If all of you are listening and watching, if you
Speaker 1: don't already follow Vin on social media, we will put
Speaker 1: all the links in the comments, go and follow him
Speaker 1: across TikTok, Instagram, all platforms. I really hope that this
Speaker 1: episode makes you a better communicator to your partner, your parents,
Speaker 1: in your profession, in all areas of your life. It's
Speaker 1: such a key skill that's needed. And I would love
Speaker 1: to see on Instagram and TikTok the clips, the moments,
Speaker 1: the parts that really stood out to you, tag us
Speaker 1: both so week and see what you're practicing. If you
Speaker 1: do a video of yourself every day and start posting
Speaker 1: our practicing tag us in it, I want to see it.
Speaker 1: I really really want to see it. I really really
Speaker 1: want to see it would be so awesome. I'd love
Speaker 1: to be able to interact with you all and see
Speaker 1: how much you've grown from it. And again, Vin, you'll
Speaker 1: welcome back to on purpose anytime you want.
Speaker 2: So thank you.
Speaker 1: I hope you'll come back and we'll see you again.
Speaker 1: Thank you. If you love this episode, you'll love my
Speaker 1: interview with doctor Gabo Matte on understanding your trauma and
Speaker 1: how to heal emotional wounds to start moving on from
Speaker 1: the past. Everything in nature grows only where it's vulnerable.
Speaker 1: So a tree doesn't grow where it's hard and thick,
Speaker 1: does it. It goes where it's soft and green and vulnerable.