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Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants Huddle on giants

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Speaker 1: dot Com. We go on the Giants part of the

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Speaker 1: Giants podcast Network. Welcome to another edition of the Giant

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Speaker 1: Huttle podcast, brought to you by psc and G Energy Efficiency.

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Speaker 1: For game time and anytime, visit PSEG dot com slash

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Speaker 1: Giants for discounts, rebates and home energy assessments. I'm John Schmelk,

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Speaker 1: and this week's Giants Huddle is longtime NFL scout, former

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Speaker 1: Patriots executive and thirteen year general manager of the Atlanta Falcons.

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Speaker 1: Now he's the CEO of Sumers Sports and Analytics Company.

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Speaker 1: He is Thomas Demitrof. Thomas, how are you, man? Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the Giants. He you make me sound really old, man, John,

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Speaker 1: Like not old, just important, just important, not old. I

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Speaker 1: got it, I got it. Happy to be here. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for having me. Not no problem. So I guess before

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Speaker 1: we kind of dig into some of the details here, Thomas,

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Speaker 1: why don't we just have you take your twenty thousand

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Speaker 1: foot view of where the Giants are in their second

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Speaker 1: year of the Shane Dable regime. Let me start by

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Speaker 1: saying this, because this is one hundred percent the truth

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Speaker 1: and I'm happy to laud both your general managing, your

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Speaker 1: head coach, Joe Shane, Brian day Ball. They come in

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Speaker 1: with really good reputations as being football man, tough guys, straightforward,

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Speaker 1: take care of business, and a year in all of

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Speaker 1: our contemporaries in the National Football League think very highly

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Speaker 1: of them. They have. They're kicking off there, you know

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Speaker 1: now under their second year with a lot of really

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Speaker 1: strong respect. That's not always easy John, in that first year,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people are still guessing and questioning. Of course,

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Speaker 1: Brian wins the Coach of the year. Did Joe Shane

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Speaker 1: win Executive of the Year? Well he should have. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm a big believer in that that they need to

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Speaker 1: go hand in hand. I had some opportunities with Mike

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Speaker 1: Smith and it's a big thing, right, But I like

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Speaker 1: where where the organization is. Of course great people at

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Speaker 1: the league, of course at the very top with with

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Speaker 1: John Marrow. I mean, look, you guys have a sound,

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Speaker 1: such a sound organization that a lot of teams look

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Speaker 1: at and a lot of teams are jealous of it

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Speaker 1: as it pertains to the big picture and the moves

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Speaker 1: that they're making. I know we're going to go into

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Speaker 1: those details. I step back and I look at all

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Speaker 1: the teams that I'm looking at you over throughout the NFL,

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Speaker 1: and I just, I really want to say, two very

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Speaker 1: smart men with very thoughtful approaches, not haphazard. Everything seems

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Speaker 1: to have a really thought out approach to it, which

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Speaker 1: we'll get into when we're talking about the position moves looks.

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Speaker 1: That's the thing that Brian Daball, of course, brings from

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Speaker 1: the Patriots, right. They are thought they were always thought out.

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Speaker 1: I know he's not directly from the Patriots, but all

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Speaker 1: of us who have spent time with the Patriots, man,

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't have gotten out of that organization without having

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Speaker 1: that drilled into you, right. Bill Belichick used to teach

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Speaker 1: all of us and drill in into our heads along

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Speaker 1: with Scott Pioli. It was about you know your organization

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Speaker 1: better than anyone in this country, of course, media, anyone else.

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Speaker 1: As a head coach in the GM, you make your plans,

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Speaker 1: you make your you know your direction and your journey

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Speaker 1: along with your head coach, and don't look back. And

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Speaker 1: I just feels like they're doing that right. It feels

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Speaker 1: like they have a really strong opinion about how they

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Speaker 1: want approaching free agency, and then you have the draft here,

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Speaker 1: of course, which is another thing I'll talk about. But

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Speaker 1: I feel like they're looking in free agency, hitting on

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Speaker 1: some of the areas they need to hit on, resigning

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Speaker 1: where they need to resign, and then all of a sudden, Oh,

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Speaker 1: by the way, what do we have ten or eleven

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Speaker 1: draft picks? Yeah? I mean that's a great feeling John

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Speaker 1: going in knowing that the uncertainty of the draft has

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Speaker 1: been taken care of a little bit by making sure

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Speaker 1: that you've signed the guys you've signed in free agency.

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Speaker 1: They had eleven ten after the Darren Waller trade, which

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about a little bit more. And it's funny

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Speaker 1: you talk about planning right and having a vision. I

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Speaker 1: imagine though that Joe Sheen's vision probably at the change

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Speaker 1: a little bit when he got hired last year. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure he thought this was probably more of a teardown

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Speaker 1: rebuild situation. Then in the first year nine seven and one,

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Speaker 1: you make the plans, you win a playoff game. How

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Speaker 1: much you think he's had to alter and how for

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Speaker 1: someone that's been in that chair, do you have to

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Speaker 1: keep an open mind to be willing to alter what

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Speaker 1: your plan is based on what you see happen on

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Speaker 1: the field, which might be in sometimes unexpected in a

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Speaker 1: good way. Yeah. I think oftentimes when you're on the

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Speaker 1: outside looking in as a general manager, as a personnel director,

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Speaker 1: and as an assistant GM, you're hoping everything goes nice

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Speaker 1: and clean, and you have this compartmentalized approach the reality

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Speaker 1: as man. Once you cross that proverbial line, it's go

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Speaker 1: and you have to be agile. I mean, I continue

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Speaker 1: to talk to any of my contemporaries around the league

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Speaker 1: now that are in those spots and any of the

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Speaker 1: people that are rising to be in that spot. Agility, agility, agility, versatility.

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Speaker 1: We say the same thing, John, about players, Right, we

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Speaker 1: expect that out of players. Believe me, in today's world,

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Speaker 1: you expected out of general managers. And this, I mean

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Speaker 1: it's a it's an overused phrase and not for long,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's more not for long than ever in

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Speaker 1: this league, right, these guys coming out of it. I

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Speaker 1: mean back in the day general managers were making a

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Speaker 1: few hundred thousand dollars. These guys are making a lot

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Speaker 1: of money, A lot is riding on them, a lot

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Speaker 1: of pressure, John, and I would also say, a guy

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Speaker 1: like Joe, really together guy again, really nice background in football.

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Speaker 1: So to your point, he's gonna have to be able

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Speaker 1: to move, he's gonna have to have vision looking ahead.

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Speaker 1: And I feel like he's done that. He realizes now

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Speaker 1: he wasn't sure. I'm sure, as well as as as

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Speaker 1: Brian coming in to say what are we gonna do

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Speaker 1: with our quarterback? And what are we gonna do with

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Speaker 1: a running back? To me, those questions were answered, and

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Speaker 1: what a great feeling that was to say, Wow, we

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Speaker 1: worked with these guys, our system worked with these guys.

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Speaker 1: We're in the best place that we can be in

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Speaker 1: given the situation. Look, there are a lot of other

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Speaker 1: guys that get in that role as the first time

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Speaker 1: GM and they're pulling their hair out as they're going

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Speaker 1: through that first season with their so called pillar players,

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Speaker 1: and they're thinking, what are we going to do here?

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Speaker 1: That was already I'm sure mandya think about it, that

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Speaker 1: was taken care of, and in the back of their

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Speaker 1: mind like, Okay, that's a good, solid feeling. Now let's

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Speaker 1: get creative with how we're gonna put together this team. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and now let's talk about how you put the team

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Speaker 1: together around those guys, right, because like I mentioned, nine

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Speaker 1: to seven and one, you know, won a lot of

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Speaker 1: close games, probably in a lot of people's mind overachieved

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Speaker 1: a little bit. So now how do you continue forward

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Speaker 1: here and build around that? Because you know ownership. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure in the fans you want to keep improving, you

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Speaker 1: want to do more, but if you try to do

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Speaker 1: too much, too fast, you can sometimes jeopardize your long

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Speaker 1: term goal right of being a super Bowl contender. So

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Speaker 1: how do you now build from this spot where you're

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Speaker 1: about five hundred team won a playoff game, but you

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Speaker 1: you know, still younger team and build the right way

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Speaker 1: to get where you want to go. I look, I

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Speaker 1: think it all starts with building around Daniel Jones. Right,

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Speaker 1: let's let's call the way it is. I had an

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Speaker 1: opportunity to do that with Matt Ryan, and we built

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Speaker 1: over the years at Matt was a very, very sound,

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Speaker 1: top tier quarterback. I did steal a page from from

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Speaker 1: the Bill Polian book, although heresy in New England, right,

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Speaker 1: We never wanted to say that we were pulling anything

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Speaker 1: from from Bill, and I like Bill a lot, have

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Speaker 1: a great deal of respect for him, of course, as

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Speaker 1: well as a coach Belichick. But the idea of surrounding

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Speaker 1: your quarterback and up and coming quarterback with the right players.

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Speaker 1: Of course, that's not rocket science, right, Let's see how

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Speaker 1: we do that. Let's get again creative with how we

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Speaker 1: do that. The the interesting parallel that I have here

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Speaker 1: in this this sort of interesting bond that I have,

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Speaker 1: which Joe Shane was, you know, in our second year

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Speaker 1: in Atlanta. Not to talk about Atlanta too much. With

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Speaker 1: Matt Ryan evolving every every game, every you know session,

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Speaker 1: every year in oh nine, if you remember, we traded

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Speaker 1: for Tony Gonzalez. So there's an interesting parallel. I'm not saying.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying Darren Waller as Tony Gonzalez. I am

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Speaker 1: saying he's a damn good tight end, very athletic. You

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Speaker 1: put that athletic guy around a quarterback who's still growing

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Speaker 1: and evolving all the time. And Matt and Daniel Jones

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Speaker 1: have certain certain similarities. Daniel, believe me, is a much

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Speaker 1: better runner and a much better sort of athlete that way.

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Speaker 1: But they both were got They're just both such sound guys,

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Speaker 1: and you want to grow and get them better putting

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Speaker 1: a tight end around them. I can't tell you how

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Speaker 1: important that is now there there could be some people

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Speaker 1: out there that are saying, well, it's such a strong

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Speaker 1: draft class with tight ends, why wouldn't you wait, Well,

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Speaker 1: simply stated, I know how this is. You see you

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Speaker 1: see two third rounders there, right, that's what That's what

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Speaker 1: they doled out that one hundred Was it a one

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Speaker 1: hundred and one or one or whatever? Yeah? Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was the compensatory pick that the chiefs Hede had given

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Speaker 1: him in the in the Tony trade. Right. So you

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Speaker 1: look as both Joe Shane and Brian Dabele are saying, Okay,

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Speaker 1: we have an opportunity to get a proven factor as

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Speaker 1: a tight end and not not projecting from from a

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Speaker 1: pick in the third round or whatever it may be.

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Speaker 1: That's a that's a settling feeling. Remember this is something

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Speaker 1: you know again that connection with with you know, with

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Speaker 1: Josh McDaniel and their general manager of course Zigs who

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Speaker 1: you know, we're in New England. The connection there is

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Speaker 1: a really important thing. So you can get some really

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Speaker 1: good background information on a player that's coming, you know,

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Speaker 1: from the Raiders. I think that's an important thing for them.

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Speaker 1: They realize they have an experienced guy. Yes, Dee Waller

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Speaker 1: has had some injuries. But if you guys believe that

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Speaker 1: you have, if the Giants believe that that they have

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Speaker 1: a really sound performance group, keep the guys healthy. I

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Speaker 1: would say that about any of the guys that you

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Speaker 1: brought in a little aside, whether it was you know,

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Speaker 1: whether it's Paris Campbell or whoever else has been necked

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Speaker 1: a little bit. Get him in the right situation where

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Speaker 1: they're training properly, and you guys have a really good

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Speaker 1: understanding of that, then you believe that you can keep

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Speaker 1: them healthy and then they can grow around Daniel Jones

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Speaker 1: starting with a tight end, starting with you know you

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Speaker 1: you all know that you need to continue to build

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Speaker 1: that receiver group. Everyone knows that, right who's going to

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Speaker 1: be the stud? Well, it's good to know while you're

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Speaker 1: looking for that stud receiver that you have a tight

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Speaker 1: end like who is as athletic as he is? And

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Speaker 1: I think that's a really important part point. All right, Well,

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Speaker 1: I guess I'll keep following all this line of thought.

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Speaker 1: Then how do you acquire a stud receiver? Now? Do

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Speaker 1: you have to draft him or do you have to

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Speaker 1: trade for one? Because it seems like the top top

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Speaker 1: true number ones don't even really reach free agency anymore. Right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not going in free agency. I humble.

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Speaker 1: If I were to be Joe and and and Brian,

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Speaker 1: I'm done in free agency right now. That first wave

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Speaker 1: you might find someone down the line, and that you know,

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Speaker 1: those next two three weeks a wave, it wasn't like

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Speaker 1: it was the strongest group out there. I don't see

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Speaker 1: you guys going after Odell Beckham. I'm maybe I'm wrong.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. You could you could answer that question

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Speaker 1: or whoever it may be out there, I would really

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Speaker 1: focus in on that draft group. You know, the same thing.

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Speaker 1: The draft groups not not not being discussed as one

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Speaker 1: of these like top notch draft groups. But you can

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Speaker 1: find some good football players in there that you can develop.

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Speaker 1: You always have to keep your eye on finding. In

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Speaker 1: my mind, when we had Julio Jones of course, along

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Speaker 1: with with Um, with Tony Gonzalis, and then we just

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Speaker 1: kept building. We always had those receivers around Matt. You know,

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Speaker 1: we had Roddy White too, right, We had Roddy White exactly.

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Speaker 1: And then when it was time and Roddy was moving

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Speaker 1: on and and and Um and uh, Julio became the guy.

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Speaker 1: Of course we go after Calvin Ridley. That was unfortunate

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Speaker 1: because he was a really good football player. Of course

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Speaker 1: he had his gambling issue, but really important for us

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Speaker 1: to have that group always growing and evolving. And I

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Speaker 1: would suggest that's one of the things that your group

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Speaker 1: is going to say. They're like, got to always keep

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Speaker 1: a revolving group of receivers. They're fresh, fast, and ready

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Speaker 1: to go. I think you guys have some speed on

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Speaker 1: that in that group. Yeah. I was actually gonna ask,

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Speaker 1: how do you think about the way they're trying to

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Speaker 1: build that out a little bit, because it seemed like

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Speaker 1: this offseason they've really prioritized speed, right Slayton for three guy,

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Speaker 1: Paris Campbell for three guy. Even Jeff Smith, who hasn't

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Speaker 1: done a lot in the league, he's a really fast

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Speaker 1: player too. That you know, maybe they're going away from

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Speaker 1: those kind of bigger, contested catch guys and focusing on

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Speaker 1: breaders and speed, right man. I look, I look at that,

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Speaker 1: and I'm thinking, hands down, categorically you need speed. This

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Speaker 1: is a matchup league. Again. We we sit there and

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Speaker 1: we think about making sure that someone can rip the

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Speaker 1: top off to open it up underneath. Darren Wallers as

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Speaker 1: well as whoever else pays Campbell. That's a that's a

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Speaker 1: big thing in my mind. Right when again, back to

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Speaker 1: Julio quickly, this sounds crazy, and you'll hate to hear

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Speaker 1: this in your Giants fans that we'll hate to hear this.

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Speaker 1: But when when we were trying to figure out what

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Speaker 1: we were going to do back in eleven, we were

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Speaker 1: looking at other teams. We were obviously looking at your nemesis,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're looking at the Eagles, and we were

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Speaker 1: looking at receivers there that always kept us on our

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Speaker 1: heels on defense. Whether you threw the ball to Julio

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Speaker 1: Jones fourteen times or whether it was only three times.

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Speaker 1: You any route you ever ran with those guys that

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Speaker 1: can rip it off the top, it opens and creates

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Speaker 1: elements underneath that I think are really high percentage shots

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Speaker 1: for a guy like Daniel Jones as he continues to develop. Now,

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Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier you built around Matt Ryan in Atlanta

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Speaker 1: after you paid him. Right now, the Johnts have paid

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Speaker 1: Daniel Jones, so you have to be a little bit

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Speaker 1: more creative. It's not as easy as building around a

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Speaker 1: quarterback on a rookie contract. So how do you manage

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Speaker 1: the cap now moving forward, knowing what you have your

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Speaker 1: quarterback on and trying to build around him, Where can

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Speaker 1: you say, where do you think you have to spend?

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Speaker 1: How do you just holistically manage that cap to maximize

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Speaker 1: your window once you have paid your franchise quarterback. It's

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Speaker 1: a great question. It is of course all about cap management, right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you get a chance, and you get

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Speaker 1: a chance to go to the business and sport, you

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Speaker 1: know they do a great job. They're just explaining that

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Speaker 1: when there's this discussion like you can't win and you

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Speaker 1: can't build when you start paying your quarterback, there's no

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Speaker 1: question you can. I think if you do the calculations,

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Speaker 1: I think it's between twenty five and thirty of your

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Speaker 1: players are under rookie contracts. The cap, just to put

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Speaker 1: everyone's mind at ease, is set up to build in

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Speaker 1: this way. Rights, It's not just oh my god, we've

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Speaker 1: signed Daniel Jones in life is is over as we

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Speaker 1: know it. It's creativity, it's thinking. Look, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of there's a lot of players back to versatility, and

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Speaker 1: there's a number three corners, the number three receivers. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what they're doing with the receivers right now, making sure

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Speaker 1: that you're smart and how you're putting together your offensive line. Again, John,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to go and talk about their philosophy,

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Speaker 1: but big picture philosophy. Every team has a different opinion

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Speaker 1: about where they want to save their money and what

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Speaker 1: position groupings they do. I'm a big believer in having

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Speaker 1: pillar positions taken care of almost at each position, and

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Speaker 1: then around those main studs you're building around them, and

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Speaker 1: some you're building down the liners. Right, you can get

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Speaker 1: some good football players out there that are the back

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Speaker 1: end of the roster that you're saving. I'm not a

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Speaker 1: big believer in spending a ton of money on those midline,

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Speaker 1: middle class veterans. There's a place for him, don't believe me.

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Speaker 1: I sit there and I think about Wink Martindale's comments

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Speaker 1: about Jiad, Right, wasn't he talking to the resigning there

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Speaker 1: and how he on some around there. Yes, you pay

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Speaker 1: some of those guys a little bit more money if

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Speaker 1: they're the leadership guys that you're looking for, But you

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Speaker 1: don't do that too often along your roster. You have

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Speaker 1: to be smart with how you're differentiating between a guy

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Speaker 1: that is truly a leader, veteran that you're gonna pay

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Speaker 1: a little bit more for and the young guy that

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Speaker 1: you want to develop. Look, one of the things I

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Speaker 1: think is vital and Brian Dayball has a really good

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Speaker 1: understanding of this. You have to develop the players. He's

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Speaker 1: working hand in hand with a very good general manager

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Speaker 1: and team builder. You have to develop. The teams out

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Speaker 1: there that don't develop. Won't go into naming some of

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Speaker 1: the head coaches over the years, they've failed ultimately because

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Speaker 1: they're just not willing as a staff to put the

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Speaker 1: time into develop. And that's a big part of it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we'll get through this year's you have doing a

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Speaker 1: little bit where you have to get those players to develop,

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Speaker 1: get them on those rookie deals. Final team building question,

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Speaker 1: Tom's before we move on. The Giants have a lot

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Speaker 1: of fortunately I think pillar players unrookie contracts they haven't

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Speaker 1: paid yet. Dexter Lawrence, who maybe was the best defensive

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Speaker 1: tackle in football last year. Andrew Thomas one of the

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Speaker 1: better offensive tackles in football. You hope Evan Neil at

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Speaker 1: some point develops into that as well. He was even McKinney.

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Speaker 1: It's safety. How much planning and how do you plan

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Speaker 1: ahead knowing maybe you have these big contracts for very

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Speaker 1: important players coming down the road when you're trying to

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Speaker 1: manage your CAP. Take me through that as a former GM,

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Speaker 1: how you work that process? Yeah, I mean we're always

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Speaker 1: looking to two years, three years in advance. Of course,

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Speaker 1: that's really really important. And I will I will get

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Speaker 1: an opportunity to a lot another person in your building.

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Speaker 1: And Kevin abram Is is one of the very best

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Speaker 1: out there right. His knowledge of CAP, his vision of

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Speaker 1: CAP is a really big thing. So once again to

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Speaker 1: your your your listeners, I mean a bang up crew

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Speaker 1: of football people that are going to help in that way.

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Speaker 1: So as far as as far as Joe Shane's sitting

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Speaker 1: down with Kevin and co. And trying to figure out,

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Speaker 1: you know, what's next, that's a that's a process. It's

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Speaker 1: not always easy, right because you know, you can only

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Speaker 1: project so far, right John, I mean you never know

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Speaker 1: with injuries, I mean injuries in the end or the

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Speaker 1: things that we all pull our hair out over right,

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Speaker 1: it's so tough to to project those. But maybe if

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Speaker 1: I'm answering your question correctly, I think you're you know,

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Speaker 1: we always tended to look, you know in those two

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Speaker 1: years ahead especially, and you know, it's it's interesting because

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Speaker 1: I sit I would sit down with Dan Quinn on

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Speaker 1: those the final my final time there, and we would

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Speaker 1: always go over our our roster. I mean literally every

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Speaker 1: week we'd be talking about the next wave and who

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Speaker 1: who truly is rising, who truly is falling, and we

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Speaker 1: would monitor that, monitor that on our on our rosters,

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Speaker 1: right with basically proverbial arrows up and proverbial arrows down.

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Speaker 1: And if the players that were we were looking at

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Speaker 1: continue to have the arrows down, then of course we

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Speaker 1: were saying, look, coming up in the next year, we

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Speaker 1: know that this is not potentially a guy that we

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Speaker 1: will not be looking to, you know, secure on on

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Speaker 1: future deals. It's it's ever evolving and changing, and you

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Speaker 1: can have a head coach and a general manager who

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Speaker 1: have a really strong opinion about it, and ultimately they

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Speaker 1: are the ones that make the decision. Remember, however, there's

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Speaker 1: the coordinators on both sides and the position coaches who

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Speaker 1: have their opinions, which becomes a very complicated thing for

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Speaker 1: general manager when you're team building, right, because you're the

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Speaker 1: days of George Young where I would assume where there

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Speaker 1: was a lot of heavy pounding of a fist on

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Speaker 1: the table. No, this is what we're doing. I have

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Speaker 1: to suggest to most people that's not how it works

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Speaker 1: in the NFL. In today's world. It's a definite partnership

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Speaker 1: between the boat, both of the coach and the GM.

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Speaker 1: You're factoring in some of the you know, the coaches

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Speaker 1: that you trust as well as ownership, and you just

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Speaker 1: have to monitor along the way. And that's a long

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Speaker 1: winded way of saying. You have to be flexible, of course,

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Speaker 1: and you have to project. If it works out great,

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Speaker 1: If not, then it's obviously can be a black mark. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I gotta imagine George Young did a lot of desk

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Speaker 1: pounding and then Parcels did a lot of yelling and cursing,

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Speaker 1: and they went back and forth and they had fun.

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Speaker 1: And that's kind of probably how that relationship win. All Right,

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Speaker 1: I'm already touched on some of these moves real quick.

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Speaker 1: You kind of talked about Daniel already, but your thoughts

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Speaker 1: on how they worked that contract getting him off that

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Speaker 1: tag and getting him on that long term deal. Look,

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Speaker 1: I was really happy to see that. I mean point blank,

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Speaker 1: going in knowing that you have a quarterback that you

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Speaker 1: can grow with as as a second year GM and

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Speaker 1: head coach man. It's a relief. I can't stress that enough.

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Speaker 1: Knowing that he could run, knowing that he you know,

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Speaker 1: he's he didn't have to deal with some of the

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Speaker 1: injuries that he had dealt with. Right, that's a that's

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Speaker 1: a big and important thing. Seeing the evolution of it.

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Speaker 1: Also doing the contract the way they did, I was

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Speaker 1: all for that. I was really happy because segues into

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Speaker 1: your next point. Right, you have a guy you're gonna

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Speaker 1: grow with, you believe in, and you trust, and it

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Speaker 1: gives you an opportunity to keep a running back. So

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Speaker 1: you truly are walking away as everyone knows, with your

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Speaker 1: two pillar players going into your second year. That is

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Speaker 1: a very reassuring feeling. And if you want to talk

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Speaker 1: about se Quon, I mean to me, I thought that

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Speaker 1: was well thought out once again, and it would be

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Speaker 1: exactly what I would have done. I had some discussions

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Speaker 1: with some of my my my our quant employees within

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Speaker 1: SUMER Sports, because of course everyone thinks they they have

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Speaker 1: strong opinions, right, and I said, put yourself in that seat.

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Speaker 1: You can have all these ideas about moving se Quon

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Speaker 1: or or not you know, or tagging you know, Daniel

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Speaker 1: on something like this and not getting a deal done.

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Speaker 1: The reality is you need to go into your second

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Speaker 1: year in this regime with solid and sound, and that's

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Speaker 1: what I think they've done. Do you think there's a

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Speaker 1: chance to get Barkley off that franchise tag or if

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Speaker 1: you're running the show, would you rather have him on

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Speaker 1: that tag and go year to year with the running back.

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Speaker 1: I would like to work on it, um. I think

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Speaker 1: it's important. He is, you know, obviously, is such a

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Speaker 1: good player, and he's such an important part of that organization.

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Speaker 1: If you can't, I wouldn't. I wouldn't be losing too

428
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:52,639
Speaker 1: much sleep on it. To be honest with you, I

429
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,240
Speaker 1: would stay there and I would say, Man, let's ride

430
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,400
Speaker 1: this hard and let's see how it how it turns

431
00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,800
Speaker 1: out in the end. But I'm sure that se Quan's

432
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 1: have be that he's there. Maybe he would have wanted

433
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:03,879
Speaker 1: a big deal, but you know, look, you got you

434
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:05,680
Speaker 1: got a really cool team to be building with. I'm

435
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,679
Speaker 1: sure he sees that and this is a great opportunity

436
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 1: for him to potentially take it to the next level

437
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,199
Speaker 1: as a team. We talked about the waller on wide receivers.

438
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,360
Speaker 1: Lay No reed to revisit that the big moves were

439
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:19,800
Speaker 1: really on defense, and you know, it's a passing league.

440
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 1: I think we'll both agree with that. And you know,

441
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,600
Speaker 1: adding interior defensive linemen and inside linebackers, you know, isn't sexy.

442
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,399
Speaker 1: It's not going to go over the headlines. But I

443
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 1: will say this time, it's one of the most demoralizing

444
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:31,680
Speaker 1: things I think for a team is watching another team

445
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:33,600
Speaker 1: run the ball on you, and it makes it very

446
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 1: difficult to win football games. And that happened time and

447
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 1: time again. Eagles won for two hundred yards on the

448
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,320
Speaker 1: ground against the Giants twice last year. They're in your division.

449
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,679
Speaker 1: So to me, even though this is maybe not the

450
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 1: value play in the NFL, now, you have to be

451
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,560
Speaker 1: competent against the run if you're gonna have a chance

452
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:51,399
Speaker 1: on defense. And I think that was kind of the

453
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,119
Speaker 1: guiding force. But you know, behind the Okaaka move and

454
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:58,240
Speaker 1: the Rochester Nunyaz movie inside, Yeah, look, starting with the

455
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,240
Speaker 1: Okaraka move, I mean, look, I'm all for that. I think,

456
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 1: of course, you guys, I say this respectfully, I mean,

457
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,600
Speaker 1: interior they you guys need to continue to build the

458
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 1: interior there. Of course, as you just mentioned, getting a

459
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,200
Speaker 1: stud type of linebacker in there, I love it. I'm

460
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,400
Speaker 1: sure Wink Martindale loves the fact that he has someone

461
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,120
Speaker 1: like that that he can build around. I believe, Okay, Key,

462
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 1: isn't he twenty six years old as well? He's got it,

463
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 1: so he's a young cat who you can continue to

464
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 1: grow with. Has a presidence. I know that there was

465
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 1: some talk out there where he was with his coverage skills,

466
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 1: but I think scheme related sometimes I can have something

467
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,119
Speaker 1: to do with it. I think Wink has obviously a

468
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:36,879
Speaker 1: very good idea of how he's going to play that

469
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 1: along with the run. So I'm I'm completely lauding that move.

470
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 1: I think that's a great move by by Joe and Brian.

471
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: So that's great. You know the d line. Just remember

472
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 1: this defensive line group in the in the draft, man,

473
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:53,879
Speaker 1: you guys are I mean it is set up to

474
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 1: pull some really good football players interior guys. You watch

475
00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 1: some of those guys out there in the draft, if

476
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,359
Speaker 1: you've seen him at the combine, watching them run around,

477
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 1: watching the move, the explosiveness. I know it's not just

478
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,639
Speaker 1: watching in the combine, but when you see some of

479
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 1: the athleticism there and the ability to move along the

480
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 1: line and make plays as well as you know, stack

481
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 1: it where you need to stag it. I think that's

482
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 1: gonna be fun to see where they go with all

483
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 1: those picks that you guys have and giants have. I

484
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 1: think it's it's gonna be great for them to pop

485
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:25,920
Speaker 1: off maybe two or three important interior defensive people. Yeah. Absolutely,

486
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 1: all right, and now let's move on to the draft

487
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:29,920
Speaker 1: here where the Giants still have to grow. And we've

488
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,159
Speaker 1: talked about the wide receivers a little bit. You know,

489
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 1: they kind of have a bunch of these, you know,

490
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 1: guys that can play inside if stolen Shepherd comes back,

491
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 1: while the Robinson is an inside guy. And I feel

492
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 1: like this draft Thomas is littered with a bunch of

493
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,680
Speaker 1: five nine, five ten elevenish type receivers that maybe some

494
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 1: people might see more slot guys at versus outside. Who

495
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 1: are some of the guys that you like day one,

496
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,640
Speaker 1: day two, even early day three, that you think can

497
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 1: win outside consistently, even if they're not like you, you know,

498
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 1: your true x et cetera, et cetera. Quentin Johnsons are

499
00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 1: all that stuff. But guys that maybe can convert their

500
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 1: skills to play outside and win as a separator outside

501
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 1: in the National Football League. I knew you were gonna

502
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,160
Speaker 1: ask me this. I just finished my free agency work

503
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: and I need to really dig down. This is probably

504
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 1: not the answer you want to hear. I don't I

505
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,959
Speaker 1: won't feel comfortable talking. Oh that's fine. I mean, of

506
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: course I know the main guys, but I look, I

507
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 1: want to be honest with you. I'm in a spot

508
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: right now where I really not need to now start

509
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,640
Speaker 1: dipping in and watching all the video because I don't

510
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,399
Speaker 1: normally like commenting on people without having some All right,

511
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: so tell us how about this. I'm gonna talk more thematically. Then,

512
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 1: what traits do you look for for players that maybe

513
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 1: you're not you're in classic six three, six four X.

514
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: Guys that you say, all right, this isn't a slot

515
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 1: only guy. We think we can play him and have

516
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,120
Speaker 1: him win outside. Well, look, I mean that that versatility

517
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 1: element is big, and we had some good fortune in

518
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 1: Atlanta over the years by having that versatility guy who

519
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,719
Speaker 1: you can move outside and still take it out up

520
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 1: the sideline of course, and underneath. I mean, look, hands down,

521
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 1: when you're talking about receivers. I'm sure you probably know this.

522
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 1: That separation ability, the awareness, separation ability and awareness. It

523
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you always have to be a four to

524
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 1: three or four two guy. You can be a four

525
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,880
Speaker 1: five five guy as long as you're sticking your foot

526
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: in the grass and you're able to separate. That's a

527
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 1: really really important element. As I mentioned, the awareness, the

528
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 1: awareness to know how you're going to break things off,

529
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 1: how you're going to play off of certain leverages that

530
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 1: the defensive backs are presenting you, of course is really important.

531
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: Of course, you have to have the ability to catch

532
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 1: around your body. Everyone knows that. I won't get into

533
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 1: just truly evaluating receivers, but when you're walking away from

534
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: guys that you can count on in versatility, the versatility

535
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: element brings five to six or seven of these traits

536
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 1: into play, and if you don't have them, obviously it's

537
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 1: it's going to be revealed quite quickly in my mind

538
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 1: as a receiver. So in the end, you in my mind,

539
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 1: we were very particular about getting a big guy. Of course,

540
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 1: we were hopefully going to have our one and two's

541
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 1: be guys that had size. Now, we did not do

542
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 1: that when we brought in Calvin Ridley because he was

543
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 1: a little smaller, but his separation was so good that

544
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 1: it counterbalanced that idea that we wanted two bigger guys.

545
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 1: That third guy. That third guy has the opportunity to

546
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: do everything stop start, the versatility to go in and out,

547
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 1: but loving the idea for him to be a legit

548
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 1: inside guy, which is important. And then you start thinking

549
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 1: about the rest of that group as you know how

550
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: important it is. There are special teams contributions that are

551
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 1: really important for these receivers, and sometimes people will say, well,

552
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: how do we overlook that? Or have we overlooked that?

553
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,199
Speaker 1: If you can get a really good receiver who is

554
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 1: adept at special teams has the upside to be a three,

555
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: that is, that's a really sound place to be when

556
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,880
Speaker 1: you're building your receiver group. Every once in a while

557
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: you get that guy who was a four or a

558
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: five as a special Teams contributor and he becomes your two.

559
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,199
Speaker 1: That's when you've I think you've hit proverbial gold and

560
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: maybe not goal, but you've you've you've hit it. You

561
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 1: know you mentioned size. I think most people when they

562
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: think about wide receivers and even cornerbacks and size. They

563
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 1: think height and length, right, But I feel like at

564
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 1: these positions players are becoming a little bit lighter coming

565
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 1: out now too, are we Devanta Smith last year? You

566
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 1: have other guys this year, tank Elammanual Forbes of corners

567
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty something pounds are soaking wetty. You know,

568
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 1: it looks like a stick figure when you watch them

569
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,919
Speaker 1: on tape. Without getting into the individual guys, where do

570
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 1: you think that weight factor comes into play? Thomas in

571
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 1: the evaluation? What makes you nervous about those guys on

572
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 1: the football field? Is it tackling for corners? It's this

573
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 1: thing healthy? Where does the weight and that sort of

574
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 1: thing play into it when you're looking at the perimeter

575
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 1: players as some of these guys just start getting a

576
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: little bit smaller. Are you referring to for both offense

577
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 1: and defense? Are you yeah? Yeah, but yeah, both sides.

578
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 1: You can take them both separately if you want. Yeah. Look,

579
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,199
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm a huge believer in athleticism and movement, right, fluidity.

580
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: That's a big thing for me. Right back to what

581
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 1: we say, it's a matchup league. If you can't match

582
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 1: up in that corner, you know, corner receiver mode because

583
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: you're plotting and heavy legged was what we refer to.

584
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: I don't even know if that's a word. I think

585
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: it's something we created. This works for me, legged I've

586
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: often wondered. But the reality is making sure that you

587
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 1: can that you have the movement and the athleticism and

588
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: the explosiveness to stay as you know, the phrase stay

589
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 1: in phase is really really important. So when you see

590
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 1: those guys out there that are all shredded up and

591
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 1: they maybe eighty five eighty seventy five, seventy five starts

592
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 1: to get a little light, but you know, as you

593
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,120
Speaker 1: had mentioned in Philly, I mean, they have a really

594
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 1: good receiver there that can do all kinds of crazy things.

595
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: You hope that you guys don't hope this. They hope

596
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: that healthy, of course, But I will say I'm not

597
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: that concerned. I do start getting concerned when you're in

598
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: the low seventies. And we had this before. When a

599
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: guy starts teetering, he comes in at seventy three as

600
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: a corner or a receiver, and believe me, when he

601
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 1: comes into camp at seventy three, he's getting down to

602
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: sixty eight to sixty five you're in a complete different world.

603
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: It's like you and I. I don't know what your

604
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: weight is, but it's like, why Yeah, But you get

605
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: those guys where you're always trying to get them up

606
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: and you're trying to you know, fatten them up, so

607
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: to speak. But then you don't want them to be

608
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: one eighty because they're over their limits and they become

609
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: they're not as quick and fast and explosive as you want.

610
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: You really want that guy who's solid and sound at eighty,

611
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: but seventy five can you can deal with it and

612
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: then know that he's not going to be falling down

613
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: into the sixties? All right? I got two more quickly

614
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: before he said goodbye, Thomas, thank you for the time.

615
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 1: This has been great int your offensive line, it's something

616
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 1: the Giants have been working on. Do you feel like

617
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: you have to be great in there? Do you just

618
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: look for competency? I know it's not considered, you know,

619
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: one of those premium positions. How do you How did

620
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: you approach that int your offensive line and trying to

621
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: get that built in front of Matt Ryan, who as

622
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 1: a pocket passer really didn't like to have guys coming

623
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: into you know, right in his face. Well, that's a

624
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: great point. I mean, look, you can take Daniel and

625
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: you take Matt Ryan as well, right again, suggesting that

626
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: Daniel was that much more fluid and mood. What we

627
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 1: what we realized very quickly on that honestly, Matt could

628
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: drop back and deal with the perimeter rush. It was

629
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: that rush coming up in his face that could be

630
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 1: devastating for us at times. One of the big reasons

631
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: I never ever thought in my early years that I

632
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: would use a big time free agent move on an

633
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: interior guy. Bring in and Alex Mack was one of

634
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 1: the best free agent moves in the thirteen years that

635
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: I was there that I felt that that we, you know,

636
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: we followed through on. He set such a tone right

637
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: that center not only his intelligence and everything his presence,

638
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: sit his ass down in there, anchor and punch, move

639
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: and pass things off by having him along with a

640
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: really sound right guard in Chris Lindstrom, who just got

641
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: Um signed to a really big contract. Interestingly enough, we

642
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: were inconsistent over those years to have the three. Every

643
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: year we one position in there was kind of lacking,

644
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: and I thought the teams that were playing us saw

645
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: that one position and before you know what, they were

646
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,239
Speaker 1: pressuring Matt in a certain way. So the three are

647
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: really important. Of course, I believe the center is. But

648
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 1: if you can pull those three together, you don't necessarily

649
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: have to pay a ton of money. Consistency is a

650
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: huge thing for me, right, and you need a guy

651
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: that's going to be able to sit in there and

652
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: prevent the pocket from collapsing, which we know that's not

653
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: again rocket science. Consistency to anchor properly. And of course,

654
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: if you have the right if you have the right

655
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: run game, let's not get away from that. If your

656
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,719
Speaker 1: run game is sound and you can take some pressure

657
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: off your quarterback along with good not necessarily great interior guys,

658
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: I think you have a chance to do some really

659
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 1: special things on an offensive side of the ball. All right,

660
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: final question, big picture, NFC East record wise, best division

661
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,719
Speaker 1: of football ash year. I think they're out of division.

662
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: Schedule had something to do with the winning percentages there.

663
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: But look, Philly's awesome. Dallas I think got better this

664
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 1: offseason with the additions they've made. Washington's got a good

665
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: roster if they could figure out the quarterback. But then

666
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,479
Speaker 1: generally the NFC is it's kind of wide open, right.

667
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: I mean, you look at all the super quarterbacks, they're

668
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: kind of all in the AFC. We'll see where Aaron

669
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: Rodgers winds up, obviously, just your thoughts on the division

670
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 1: and the conference and if visually a window here in

671
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: the NFC to try to make a run. Look, I'm

672
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: gonna lead off, so mister Marris, happy that I'm on

673
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: your website here, but look, I mean where you guys

674
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: are right now will lead in. I just as I

675
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: mentioned at the outset, I really liked the thoughtfulness of

676
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: this organization, and I like the fact that you guys

677
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: are investing where you need to be investing as as

678
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: a Giants organization. I think that's really really important, and

679
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: I think great things ahead, quite honestly, given your leadership.

680
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 1: You look at Philadelphia and Howie Roseman and I have

681
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: always been you know, we've always been friends and contemporaries

682
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 1: and competitive over the years. And you know I've told

683
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 1: him recently, I mean their team this year, as you

684
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 1: well know anyone who follows it there, they are really

685
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: really together. They're they're playing so well. Back to the

686
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: year and you know, back in seventeen when they beat

687
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: our asses down the stretch going in the Super Bowl.

688
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 1: To me, their their football team this year was exponentially

689
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: better than it was that year winning the Super Bowl.

690
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: Obviously things fell apart. I think they come back with

691
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: a vengeance as well. You know, obviously they have a

692
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 1: head coach who knows what he's doing there. They're building together,

693
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: is pulled together really well. They're another very thoughtful team

694
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: in the league. And you know, again defensively, offensive line.

695
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 1: I think they come to the table and it's gonna

696
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: be tough. They're gonna be tough to beat once again.

697
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: As much as you hate hearing that, I get that agree.

698
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 1: I saw how he Roseman the other day. I don't

699
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: know if you saw it. He was taking a shot

700
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: with Kelsey of Mescal And by the way, just so

701
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: you guys know, he's a part owner in that company.

702
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 1: He didn't necessarily say that, so I think he was

703
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 1: doing a little bit of marketing there. How he is

704
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: always he's always the businessman, right, So Philly, you know,

705
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 1: you sit there and you think about Dallas. I'm a

706
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 1: big fan of dan Quinn as you know, right. I

707
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: think what they're doing there with their defense, they kept people,

708
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: they continue to build there and be smart there. Moving

709
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 1: on from a running back there that I heard Dak

710
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 1: Prett Scott like basically crying in is you know soup

711
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 1: so to speak. Like that's a tough one, right, See

712
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: what's going to happen there. They are a good football

713
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 1: team as well. I'm not that versed in what's going

714
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 1: on in Washington. I just think with you guys, with

715
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: Philly and Dallas, Man, that's gonna be a that's gonna

716
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: be a real show to see how that plays out

717
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 1: in and out every every game down, you know, throughout

718
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: the season. Thomas, this was fantastic, very educational. I know

719
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: I learned a lot of hope our listeners did as well.

720
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: Tell everybody about what you're doing with with sumer Sports

721
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: and anything you want them to know about you and

722
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: your company. Yeah, just if you get a chance, go

723
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: to sumersports dot com. We have a ton of content there.

724
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 1: We are a roster optimization tool. Basically our clients are

725
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: the NFL of course as it stands right now. Of

726
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 1: course there's all ultimately all kinds of business opportunity. Roster

727
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: optimization is a big thing. I'll leave you with this.

728
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: We can take thirty two general managers right now, sit

729
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 1: them in this room, and they would raise their hand,

730
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 1: every one of them and say absolutely, not in exact

731
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 1: science what we're doing. Absolutely if they're being honest, even

732
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 1: though the owners don't want to hear this so they

733
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: don't want to necessarily say it to the owners, there

734
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 1: needs there needs to be more exactness in the way

735
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: that we're approaching our roster building. I've been in the

736
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: league for over I've been in the league almost for

737
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 1: thirty years. I've been around it all my life. My

738
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: dad was a football coach, and I always thought there's

739
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 1: got to be a better way, and I have a

740
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 1: great deal of confidence in my ability to evaluate. But

741
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: there is an augmentation element there. There's data out there,

742
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: and I use this line it sounds very exaggerated, criminally

743
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 1: underutilized data within every organization out there, that if a

744
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: general manager opens up, understands the old school side of

745
00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:01,839
Speaker 1: football and utilizes roster optimization data, it can only make

746
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 1: them that much better. I maintain that it can take

747
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: the good GM from being good to being very good,

748
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: and the very good to being to being a Hall

749
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 1: of Famer, and in the end, roster optimization allows us.

750
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:14,839
Speaker 1: I used to go to Arthur Blank and I'd say, Arthur,

751
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: I have twelve scenarios. And I was proud as a

752
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: peacock that I had twelve offseason scenarios. What we are

753
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: doing with Sumer Sports with our algorithms. It's an advanced

754
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 1: algorithm that has over fifty four models building and growing.

755
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 1: What it truly does is it allows that algorithm to

756
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: present for each specific team they're optimal fifty three roster.

757
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: Doesn't mean you have to go with it. It allows

758
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 1: this algorithm to produce millions and millions of options, unlike

759
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 1: my twelve. Doesn't mean you're going to pour through a million.

760
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 1: But you could say, Sumer, give me your top three

761
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 1: roster optimization rosters for the New York Giants and they

762
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: would and Joe Shane would be able to look at

763
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 1: it compared to what they have, and then it just

764
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 1: starts the juxtaposition element, which we're really, really really focused on.

765
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: We think this can revolutionize our founder last thing, our

766
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,799
Speaker 1: founder and chairman is Paul Tutor Jones. Paul is one

767
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: of the most famous macro traders in the world right

768
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: so he has a massively in depth understanding of roster

769
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:27,399
Speaker 1: or portfolio management and modern portfolio theory is a big

770
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 1: part of what we're doing here. So again it brings

771
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: all school football with me being there being the domain

772
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 1: expert as a CEO, along with our thirty quants and

773
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: engineers to really hone in on trying to build something

774
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:41,800
Speaker 1: that we think is revolutionary. Well, I'm really happy we

775
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 1: spend a lot of this conversation on team building given

776
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:45,839
Speaker 1: what you guys are doing, and you've piqued my interest,

777
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 1: so I have to follow up. You're real quick, give

778
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: me one or two, and I want you to give

779
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: the algum with the way beause that kind of defeats

780
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: the point of people paying you to do this for them, obviously,

781
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: But give me one or two of them. Would you

782
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 1: think are the to quote you criminally underutilized data point

783
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: that teams maybe ignore but they shouldn't that maybe we

784
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 1: should keep an eye on. Well, look, I've stated this

785
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 1: way when I said we have fifty four models and growing,

786
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 1: I mean those models are all based around aging curves,

787
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: financial curves, um you know, participation there within those Within

788
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 1: all of those curves, I could go on and on

789
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 1: listening there's subsets within their are what our wildly intelligent

790
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 1: group is I call them the intelligencia. Right, I sit

791
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 1: down with some of these guys, blown away, how smart

792
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 1: they are. I learn every day from them. I hope

793
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 1: that I'm imparting some you know, sort of domain information

794
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 1: and expertise to them so that we can grow. What

795
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 1: I'm ultimately saying is we can continue to grow and

796
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 1: provide that data that's in the building that that next

797
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:51,439
Speaker 1: gem Stats supplies. Too often, I will say this as well,

798
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 1: there is no organization out there that has probably more

799
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 1: than three, four or five people in their in their

800
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: data departments. We again coming to the table with over

801
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: thirty and growing towards fifty. We think that we can

802
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,359
Speaker 1: be that group that can provide the NFL teams with

803
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 1: the man and woman power that we know that they

804
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 1: need to as far as pouring into the data that's

805
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: sitting there in their organizations that can be utilized. Again,

806
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:19,879
Speaker 1: it's in our leag Just so you know this back

807
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 1: to football, any of us that have a long standing

808
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: scouting background and football background, we are all about juxtaposition.

809
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: It's about comparing, right, It's about taking those ten top

810
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 1: corners that you're looking at, or inside linebackers or guards

811
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 1: and being able to utilize Sumer Sports in this situation

812
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 1: to be able to run your numbers on all of

813
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 1: those players, to truly see what our models are saying

814
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: is the true order versus what you may be and

815
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: your scouts as an organization may be looking at. And

816
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 1: in the end it's your job as an organization to override.

817
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 1: We are suggesting what we know, given everything we're taken

818
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 1: into consideration. What we believe is you know the best.

819
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 1: And I will say this the last thing this is

820
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: I would not have taken a job like this. I

821
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 1: would have tried to get back into the NFL and

822
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,359
Speaker 1: worked my way back up towards a general manager job.

823
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: But the opportunity to be in something like this that

824
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 1: I know I've been looking at for years and years

825
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 1: that there has to be a better way to truly

826
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: evaluate at the core. And I'm excited about where we're going.

827
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: Thomas Dimtchef, CEO of Sumer Sports, Go check it out.

828
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 1: That's sum Ere. You can see it in the lower

829
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 1: third on the screen. Was joining us to the John

830
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 1: Suttle Podcast, brought you by PSC and G Thomas. Great stuff.

831
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 1: We really appreciate the time. Best of luck and we'll

832
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 1: talk to you down the road. Look forward to talking again.

833
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:38,359
Speaker 1: Thank you, John, thanks for being with us, everybody. We'll

834
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: see you next time on the John Suttle Podcast.