WEBVTT - Ep. 84: CLAUDE MAXWELL 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:08.559 Yeah, this episode came at me as a surprise and 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:12.160 kind of a shocker. It wasn't planned, but after a 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:15.440 string of emails and the flurry of phone calls the 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:18.639 first week of December, I found myself on a plane 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:23.360 headed to southeast Ohio. Our Secret Agent Man series ended 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:26.439 a few weeks ago, and on that series we heard 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:31.120 about the illustrious and wild career of undercover wildlife agent 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:36.160 Artie Stewart. In Ohio, he told us about Operation Redbud, 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:39.839 which in the nineteen nineties was the largest turkey poachings 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:42.760 thing in US history. You've heard about that a ton, 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:49.320 But I learned something about telling old stories. They don't 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:54.720 always end where you think they do. Stories continue, and 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:59.640 they always have more than one side. That's all I 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:04.240 can say for now, But I really doubt you couldn't 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:09.319 want to miss this one June a lot of good day. 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:21.839 It was almost like unbelievable. My name is Clay Nukelem 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:25.240 and this is the Bear Grease Podcast, where we'll explore 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:29.960 things forgotten but relevant, search for insight and unlikely places, 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:33.880 and where we'll tell the story of Americans who lived 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:38.880 their lives close to the land. Presented by f HF Gear, 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:44.080 American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear that's designed 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:54.680 to be as rugged as the places we explore. So 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:58.280 when did you buy this place. I'm gonna guess probably 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:00.680 a year and a half, the two year ago maybe, 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:03.480 and it was it was shut down. No, it was 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:06.880 so operating when we bought it. And uh, but it 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:09.680 didn't look not even on the scale it looks like today. 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:12.200 It was just needed updated. Like I say, we owned 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:14.959 the Piza shop next door. So actually my father in 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:16.480 law said, you know what, Claude, and he said, on 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:18.680 any day you said, you just buy that bowling alley too. 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:20.840 And I was like, yeah, you've lost your mind too, 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:23.480 you know. So uh, well, the next thing, you know, 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:27.520 we've come up for sale. So we bought it and uh. 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:30.680 And then we bought it, we shut the doors and 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:34.280 uh and did a big remodel. I mean, we got 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:37.000 it all so down to the bear like bear concrete. 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:42.320 That's that's what was left. This is my first time 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:47.480 to Mcconnell'sville, Ohio. It's a cute town of about sevent people, 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:50.840 built on the banks of the Mosqugam River in the 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:55.800 southeast part of the state. Mcconnell'sville is also where most 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:59.880 of the twenty six men and dieted in Operation Redbud live. 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:04.000 Of if you've lived in small town America, there's certain 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:07.680 people that stand out. They're woven into the fabric of 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:12.480 the community and make it thrive. Their leaders well respected, 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:18.120 their contributors and functional pillars of the community. We've just 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:23.560 heard the voice of Claude Maxwell. There was ten lanes 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:26.840 of bowling here, so we tore three out. So you know, 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:31.320 as you see we got the dartboards. Uh pull table 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:33.320 over there. You can't stay it from here. But then 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:37.760 big kitchen. There's a restaurant here. Yes, it's very nice 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:41.160 restaurant back here also, so back here there's two virtual 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:44.080 golf bays, which will be I'm sure a big hit. 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:48.400 So Mcconnell'sville is not a big town, so this is 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:51.680 gonna be like a hub for for people to come 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:54.760 to a like a real social I'm hoping it's gonna 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:58.200 be a big fit for the Mcconellsville people. Um, and 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:00.640 I know it's a lot of people excited about because 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:02.360 you know, there's nothing really here for the kids to do. 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:08.920 Claude is sixty years old, and wears fashionable dark frame glasses. 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:13.520 He drives a late model Chevy Silverado pickup. The back 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:16.320 seats are folded up and the floorboard is full of 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:20.000 the walk tools and construction supplies. When I opened the 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:23.640 passenger door, he scrambles to clear away work gloves and 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:28.120 cabinet hardware still in the packaging. It's clear that Claude 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:31.800 has worked hard for everything that he's got, and it's 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:36.520 evident he and his family are these kind of standout people. 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:41.640 The bowling Alley in the pizza place called Maxwell's Pizza 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:45.679 are side by side overlooking the river. The pizza place 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:49.000 has a rooftop dining area that's been voted as one 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:52.800 of the top ten best rooftops in Ohio. Both of 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:57.919 these businesses are being spearheaded by Claude's son cast a 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:03.000 really sharp and kind fella in his early thirties. Cass 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:09.520 was just four years old on Sunday, June nineteen. He 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:12.560 thought there must have been an early morning party at 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:16.719 their house when all the vehicles rushed into their driveway. 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:20.880 Not to be outdone by her older brother, Claude's daughter 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:26.320 Adrian started a cafe in downtown Mcconnellsville called the Bluebird Cafe, 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:29.960 and I kid you not, they served me the best 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:34.480 breakfast I've eaten in the last five years. The place 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:39.000 is top notch. It's become overwhelmingly clear to me that 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:43.640 these Maxwell's have something special. And I haven't even told 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:48.320 you that Claude runs a sporting goods store called Maxwell's 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:59.080 Hunting Supplies. So that we're in Mcconnellsville. Ah, he's introducing 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:02.840 me to a man that we've met on the sidewalk. So, uh, 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:06.760 this is the guy that is the podcast for Yeah, 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:12.160 well you know the operation. Yeah, So we just got 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:14.400 done here. Did you hear about that that we did 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:18.040 a podcast on that. My boy was talking North Carolinas 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:22.240 told me about always that right from that there, this 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:29.800 just happened. Uh. Ron is literally the first person we've 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:32.919 met on the street. As we walked towards Claude's hunting store. 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:37.640 After a slightly awkward moment, I realized that I might 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:41.960 not be the most popular man in Mcconnellsville. Not everybody 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:47.200 was pumped about some outsider talking about Operation Redbud without 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:50.760 hearing the full story. But I went ahead and asked 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:55.480 Ron appointed question. Yeah, so, so who who do you 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:59.120 know Claude Maxwell to be inside this community. He's a 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:01.640 great this man, now, don't know. I mean what they've 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:04.160 done in this community is outstanding. I mean with with 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:07.520 the blue Bell and the bowling alley and the rough top, 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:11.800 you know, pizza shop. I mean, it's just terriffic what 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:15.000 he's done. And I'm proud of the whole family. They're 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:19.760 all good workers. So I mean he's like a pillar 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:21.760 in this community, is it? Would that be right? Well? 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:26.480 I hate to say that he really is. The whole 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:29.240 family needs to be commended for what they've done here. 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:35.320 Uh yeah, I appreciate it. Yeah yeah, sorry to walk 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:37.600 up to on the street and just shove a making 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:44.200 your face. The Mcconnellsville tour continues. We're now in Maxwell's 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:49.200 Hunting Supplies. So we're walking in Maxwell's Hunting and Fishing 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:59.000 Supplies store. But I had the store is tidy and 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:03.720 packed wall to wall and floor to ceiling with archery targets, 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:07.720 deer blinds, and bottles of doe estras. Behind the counter 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:11.640 is a wall full of guns of all kinds. The 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:14.480 middle of the store has hunting clothing and a bow 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:17.720 rack and in the back of the store you couldn't 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:22.120 fit another jig or crank bait on the shelves. We 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:26.280 sell Matthews um Hoyt an elite and then of course 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:30.640 you know uh Raven Crossbows, several different crossbow companies. We 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:36.079 handle big selection of fishing equipments. Yes, and uh we 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:38.240 can walk on back do here, but yeah, give me 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:43.400 the full tour. Man. What I'm about to tell you 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:46.640 won't make sense unless you've listened to our Secret Agent 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:50.320 Man series. We worked hard in the podcast to hide 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:54.120 the identity of the man that we called Target number two. 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:58.280 This was the guy that RTI Stewart became very close with, 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:02.640 the guy rt so badly wanted to tell that he 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:06.920 was an undercover agent because he liked him so much. Well, 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:12.640 Claude Maxwell is Target number two of Operation Red Butt. 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:16.360 If you recall, through the undercover work of Art and 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:20.439 his partner, they brought charges against twenty six men, and 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:23.840 these guys were convicted of over two hundred and seventy 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:28.560 five wildlife violations. But when you do the math, Claude 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:34.480 Maxwell received exactly twenty percent of those violations. He pleaded 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:39.040 guilty to seventy four When I first heard about Artie 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:42.360 Stewart and his undercover work, I was interested in highlighting 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:45.680 the work done by the wildlife law enforcement of this country. 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:48.720 The freedoms that we have as hunters carry a high 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:52.199 price tag, and part of the cost is making sure 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:57.040 that the law is followed. Artis openness gave us insight 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:01.040 into a hidden layer of law enforcements seldom seen the 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:06.240 world of undercover work. His stories were fascinating, and he 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:10.760 was very good at what he did. However, what never 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:15.000 occurred to me, what never crossed my mind, is how 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:19.360 these stories intersected the lives of those that he chased. 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:24.880 I never expected to talk to Target number two, to 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:28.720 be honest with you, it was almost like he didn't exist. 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:33.280 But oh he does, and he's not who I thought 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:41.920 he would be. Here's Claude Maxwell. Well before this started, 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:45.800 before I met the undercover I worked at a a 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:48.679 manager drive through in a bar. I worked there for 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:52.280 probably seventeen years. I met a lot of people. I 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:55.800 met a lot of great people. That was basically how 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:59.559 I met the undercover agent. Was where I worked at 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:03.960 intentionally commend to meet me I had met the undercover guy. 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:08.200 I mean, I remember exactly when it was and uh, well, 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:11.680 automatically we uh we hit it off pretty good. Of course, 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:13.559 I think he was probably hoping we get hit it 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:17.199 off pretty good. But we started hanging out and uh 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:19.839 started hunting from mayor, I guess. I mean, I don't know, 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:22.760 but like you said, that's what that's what I've done 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:26.880 for seventeen years. Claude was in his early thirties and 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:31.559 nine he was married and had two children. He worked 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:34.680 as a bartender, and it was here that he met 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:38.240 Bob Thomas, or at least that's what the man said 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:42.240 his name was. But why was he here to meet Claude? 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:47.800 So the Ohio DNR would have had you in their crosshairs. 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:52.520 So you were killing turkeys before season, some deer before 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:55.800 in season. Yep, that's what was going on. I sure did. 0:11:56.080 --> 0:12:00.160 Um I tell you I was out hunting turkeys one 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:04.800 morning before season, and uh, and I'd probably killed I 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:07.040 don't know, maybe a couple of birds, I guess before 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.839 season that year. And the guy I used to work 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:14.960 for at this bar or his son was real good 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:18.120 friends with the game wards and daughter at high school. 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:21.280 He had come home and I've seen this boy every 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:25.200 day he'd pulled me aside one day said hey, said, uh, 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:29.120 just let you know that the game wards daughter, which 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:33.040 I'm not gonna mention your name, had told me that 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:36.559 my dad has got the radar on you. So I 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:39.560 actually started getting nervous about that. I mean, it wasn't 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:42.319 like I was out every day hunting, but you know 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:44.800 there was days i'd go, you know, a few days 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:47.120 in a row, generally a couple of weeks before season. 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:49.559 Come in Turky, God, I want to be hunt him. 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:54.040 So anyhow, one morning I was coming back and I've 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:56.520 been turkey hunting. Actually didn't care a gun that morning 0:12:56.800 --> 0:13:00.160 because of what this boy had told me of off 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:02.760 the game warden. Well, he'd definitely done had his eyes 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:06.600 locked on me because we was coming on County Road three, 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:09.000 and I looked at every vehicle that went by me. 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:11.600 I mean, I just I still do today. I mean 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:13.880 I just I guess it's just a habit of you know, 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:18.400 way with people or whatever. Well, that morning, a particular morning, 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:21.960 I had passed the game warden. There's two of them, 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:24.520 and I knew the local game warden very well, and 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:28.040 so I met him. He was in an undercover car 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:31.760 or it maybe even a station way. But I remember saying, 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:34.560 so they weren't in their truck. No, No, they were 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:38.719 in a civilian car. That you recognize the guy. So 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:41.000 when I passed him, of course I freaked out. I 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:43.720 was like, wow, he is onto me. So I slowed down. 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:47.480 I was actually going to work that morning, so I 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:50.520 drove real slow all the way to town because I 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:53.439 was positive that was him. And he knew when he 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:57.679 seen me who I was. I was in camouflage, you know, 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:00.280 he knew I was probably out turkey hunting. I was 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:03.320 coming into Malta, which is right across the river. Here 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:07.439 this vehicle I finally had caught up with me, and 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:11.000 it was the vehicle that I've been waiting for. So 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:13.079 you was going slow so he would follow you, or 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:15.079 so he could catch up. Catch up. Yeah, so he 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:17.920 catch up with me. So and he did catch up 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:20.480 with me. So I think he was kind of surprised 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:23.360 when he made the turn to come into Malta that 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:25.640 he sees my vehicle. And at that time I drove 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:29.520 a Chevy Tahoe hatchback, so he sees me. So he 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.040 takes a left on side street, like I say, I 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:34.640 have no weapon in my vehicle. So I take a 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:37.320 left at the red light, and I wanted to catch 0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:39.480 up with him. But the reason he took a left 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:41.960 because he's seen me, and he didn't make it look obvious. 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:44.720 So we pulled up the side street together. He's coming 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:47.200 one way, I'm coming the other way. So I pulled 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:50.360 up to him. He rolls his wounded down and I 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:54.040 asked him. I said, are you looking for me? And 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:56.960 he said, now it's with you, just Outsidelphia. I was 0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:58.920 pretty sure you're looking for me, he said, Now I 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:01.040 was out doing a turkey sort way. We're doing turkey 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:03.440 every days. Well, a guy to pass your seat. He 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:06.080 stared a hole through me. So anyhow, pulling away from 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:09.800 the vehicle, I've seen him smacked this staring. Well, wow, 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:14.440 he because he got busted. Yeah, he knew that. I 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:16.640 knew that. You know, he's out there looking for me. 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:21.080 He knew that. I knew that he was out there 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:25.480 looking for me. Though the words Operation Redbud had never 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:28.920 been uttered, the pounding of the steering wheel was its 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:33.520 genesis moment. Perhaps, if Claude hadn't spoiled their initial plans 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.960 by taking that left hand turn, maybe the local warden 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:40.080 would have caught him and slowed him down, and he 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:43.920 would have been an average turkey poacher and we'd never 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:47.120 even know who he was. But the what might have 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:50.440 been are long gone, like a cottonwood leaf in the 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:54.880 current of the Moskegam River. Fate was set into place. 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:02.080 You told me about meeting Bob Thomas Art Stewart, and 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:05.120 you told me about how you probably could have You 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:08.200 were tipped off pretty quick that he was an undercover agent. 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:11.000 Can you tell me about that? Yes, Well, when I 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:14.960 met Ort, and I can even remember the exact chair 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:17.560 he said him when he came in the bar that 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:20.320 day and he ordered the Miller light. That's how good 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:25.680 my memory is. So we would, uh, just in conversation. 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:28.320 We got to talking a little bit that day and 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:31.480 he was dressed in camouflage, tipping off that he was 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:34.280 a hunter. Yeah, sure, so he knew yeah, because he 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:36.440 knew who I was was. I didn't know him. I mean, 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:40.080 but you know, RT. Bob Thomas whatever. At that time. 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:42.480 The first time we spoke, you were calling him Bob. 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:47.280 I thought that was really interesting. Well that's what a 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:49.320 long time so I just want the name is Bob. 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:53.560 But anyhow, I enjoyed being around Bob just that one day, 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:55.360 I had a pretty good field for me. I thought, 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:59.360 pretty good Feller. Of course, I'm sure that looking back, 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:01.200 I mean, of course Bob wanted to be my friend. 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:03.840 He wanted to know me. I want to guess it's 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:09.159 probably uh. A few days later arts in the store again. 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:13.120 A good friend of mine, Kevin, had come in the bar. 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:16.400 We had a side door on the side of the bar. 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:18.640 A lot of people just come in that side door, 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:20.920 which was the stage, and then you come down three 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:24.320 steps and you you'd be in the bar. Well. Kevin 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:27.000 had come in the door that I want to say 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:30.080 as around one or two in the afternoon, and Bob 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:32.080 or r T or whoever was sitting at the edge 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:35.080 of the at the bar theyre closest to the stage. 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:39.280 Kevin had called him RT. He said, hey, RT, you 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:41.720 know you always named a couple of times, and Bob 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:44.600 finally looks up at him and said, because I'm talking 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:47.880 to Kevin. Bob said, you talking to me? And he said, yeah, 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:50.320 ain't you RT store. He said, you must have me 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:52.480 mixed up someone else. He said, well you look like 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:55.840 the game ward and shocked her down. Uh. Hawking counting 0:17:56.480 --> 0:18:00.360 Bob said, oh, I ain't no game ward you and uh, well, 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:03.159 the dry through bell rang usually when it just rang. 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:05.520 One time, I knew it was somebody walking because they 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:07.520 just stepped on the rubber hose to make the bell ring. 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.400 Kevin had left, and I thought it was probably him 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:12.960 back there, so well, so he buzzed it for you 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:15.919 to come back there. That's right. Wow, so your buddy 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:19.679 is like wanting a private meeting with Yes, Kevin always 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:22.880 called me Max. One opened door and he said, hey Max, 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:25.160 He said, do you know that guy out there to bar, 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:27.880 I said, I just made a few days ago. He said, 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:31.520 unless he's got a twin. His name is Artie Stewart 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:35.240 and he's a game ward instructor in Hawking County. So 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:38.399 he said, this is right at the very beginning of 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:42.359 what became Operation Redbud. That's right, that's exactly right. So 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:45.520 this guy tells you that's Artie Stewart. He's a game ward. Yes, 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:47.840 So he said, I'd be careful who you hang out with. 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:49.960 He said, I could be wrong. He said, it's been 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:51.600 a while since I've seen it, but he said, by god, 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:54.479 he said it looks like him, So i'd even uh, 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:57.080 mentioned that to my wife and she said, you know, 0:18:57.320 --> 0:18:59.720 she was like, because she didn't like me going out 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:04.200 spotlight and shooting deer. She was not for it. A 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:06.600 matter of fact, she would yet ticked off if I went, 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:09.520 so not always for it. It's all right, you know, 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:13.120 I'll be fine. Anyhow, I went back to the bar 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:16.800 and uh, I was talking to Bob and I said, yeah, 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:19.720 I said, well, Kevin thinks she was a game warden. 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:21.720 He said yeah, and then he went on a big 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:24.240 spill about that he's a game warden. You know, he 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:28.119 just yeah, so, uh, well, that afternoon, I think of 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:31.520 that afternoon, Bob had showed me a a turkey in 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:33.639 the back of his van, a turkey fan that he 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:35.760 had had fanned out, and Utah was a fresh kill. 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:38.479 He had his spurs are and he said he had 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:40.119 just killed it. And I think he was trying to 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:42.359 gain my trust a little bit. Okay, yeah, of course, 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:44.600 you know back then I couldn't see past my nose 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:47.840 because I'm like, what is the odds of a game 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:51.000 warden here in a book like an undercover? I mean, 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:53.119 that wasn't even a thing, was it. No? I mean, 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:55.560 like I think you probably heard about things like that. 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:57.840 But yeah, I've never thought would ever happen to men. 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:00.320 Of course, when he showed me that, I was like, 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:02.240 I kind of trust him, but I just say, I 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:04.879 don't think nabe Kevind is exact what he's talking about. Well, 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:11.040 then right after that, Bob started wearing yellow lens glasses, sunglasses, 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:13.240 and then he grew a full beard. Because when I 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:16.320 first met r T, he was clean. They had a mustache, 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:20.800 big mustache. After that he wrote a huge beard, so 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:26.119 he knew he got busted from He's gonna have to 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:31.040 change up a little bit. It's so interesting here in 0:20:31.119 --> 0:20:34.200 the different sides of the same story arts he told 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:37.480 us about this one too. Claude wouldn't have known it, 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:41.800 but RT was scrambling on the inside, but he was 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:47.040 also learning, hence the new beard and sunglasses. In our 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:50.520 Secret Agent Man podcast, r T told many of the 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:54.320 ins and outs of living undercover and becoming close to Claude. 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:59.720 They poached turkeys, spotlighted deer, and became the closest of friends. 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:04.280 Here's a funny story. We shot a deer one night, 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:07.000 Bob and down. I don't believe it was with us 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:09.480 at night, but we shotted and we're down below my 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:12.840 buddy Mike's house and world clo down the woods and cold, 0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:15.479 probably a six or seven inches snow one. I mean, 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:18.040 we're clear down in the woods, just so wouldn't get caught. 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:21.679 And pretty soon Bob and Don snuck up on us. 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:23.800 Of course, he's all good friends, and you know, everybody 0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:26.560 knows everybody, and uh, he got up on snuck up 0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:30.359 on us and said game warden boys, and we was 0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:33.520 freaking out because I thought it was a game warden. 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:39.000 Well it but but man, he told that story three times, 0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:43.119 and man he would laugh looking back. Claude says the 0:21:43.240 --> 0:21:48.959 signs were everywhere that his relationship with Bob Thomas was suspect. However, 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:53.000 this type of undercover work was entirely new, and Claude's 0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:56.600 was like a deer in the headlights, especially when the 0:21:56.640 --> 0:22:01.120 relationship came crashing down. For Clawe, it was the surprise 0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:07.200 of his life, one that would change it forever. So 0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:10.439 our TI talked about how he said he was closer 0:22:10.480 --> 0:22:13.000 to you than probably he was anybody he ever worked, 0:22:13.560 --> 0:22:16.920 which was interesting. And part of what we talked about 0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:20.879 was what was it like to be turned in by 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:24.960 somebody you really thought was your friend. Yeah, that was 0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:27.000 probably the worst thing that probably ever happened to me, 0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:30.440 to be honest with you. Um, you know, we hung 0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:32.959 out for a long time together, and I think basically 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:35.000 about every day. I mean, there might have been a 0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:36.960 day or two we didn't hang out, but for the 0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:39.720 most part we ve together, me and him and Dawn 0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:44.640 a lot. So when that morning, seven o'clock at the morning, 0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:47.920 you know, they hit everybody at seven o'clock in the morning, 0:22:48.040 --> 0:22:51.119 all the guys that were involved in the in in 0:22:51.320 --> 0:22:53.520 in the sting. Yeah, well, I remember being in bed 0:22:53.600 --> 0:22:56.119 that morning and we've been up late night we had 0:22:56.720 --> 0:22:59.320 I guess my place was Party Central. W's where everybody 0:22:59.400 --> 0:23:01.440 come to when we just hang out and have a 0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:05.720 good time. But anyhow, that the morning that happened, I 0:23:06.280 --> 0:23:09.360 kept here on this pounding on my house. I thought 0:23:09.400 --> 0:23:12.920 it was dreaming, okay, you know, summertime. And my wife 0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:15.280 finally gets me up, said, you got to look outside. Gosh, 0:23:15.520 --> 0:23:18.639 you're in big trouble. That's the exactly what she told me. 0:23:18.800 --> 0:23:20.520 So I jumped up out of bed. Of course, I 0:23:20.600 --> 0:23:23.080 got long hair then, and a matter of fact, had 0:23:23.119 --> 0:23:24.760 orange shorts. One looked like I was getting ready to 0:23:24.760 --> 0:23:28.760 go Joel. So I looked outside and I've seen all 0:23:28.800 --> 0:23:33.000 these wildlife officers and and how many trucks were there? Wow? 0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:36.800 You know, honestly, I think there must have been achieved. 0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:42.240 My best recollection probably fifteen are fifteen vehicles pulled up 0:23:42.280 --> 0:23:46.040 to your house. Yeah, there's uh Crown Victories, and there's 0:23:46.240 --> 0:23:52.360 uh game warden trucks, a one towing Clumbus News Times Recorder, 0:23:52.480 --> 0:23:54.800 which is our local news. Oh wow, so they pulled 0:23:54.880 --> 0:23:57.840 up with a with a a tow truck to tow 0:23:57.920 --> 0:24:02.760 your vehicles. Yeah, the media was there. We're gonna film 0:24:03.320 --> 0:24:07.920 them pulling you out of your house? Yes, and they did. Yes. 0:24:08.880 --> 0:24:11.320 So you so you answer the door? Yeah, time I 0:24:11.359 --> 0:24:13.920 got my barons together. What in the world, you know, 0:24:14.080 --> 0:24:16.480 I'm thinking, what's going on? It? Did it even occur 0:24:16.560 --> 0:24:20.040 to you that this is because of killing turkeys the league? Nothing? 0:24:20.359 --> 0:24:23.600