Speaker 1: Welcome to another edition of Civic Cipher. I am your host,
Speaker 1: Rams's Jah And for those of you who've been following
Speaker 1: along with the show, that have been keeping up with
Speaker 1: the promotions and so forth, you'll know that today is
Speaker 1: a very big day for us here on Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1: As you know, the show exists to give a voice
Speaker 1: to the community. A lot of times, especially in black
Speaker 1: and brown communities, there are conversations that really don't make
Speaker 1: their way to public platforms for public consumption, and that's
Speaker 1: exactly what we're trying to challenge and change with Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1: And I think that the issue that we're discussing today
Speaker 1: and the person with whom we're discussing the issue are
Speaker 1: particularly significant because there is a special relationship with today's topic,
Speaker 1: voting and black people. Black people obviously were not always
Speaker 1: given the right to vote. That was something that black
Speaker 1: folks had to work for, and you know, a lot
Speaker 1: of times there's a lot of hopelessness in black communities,
Speaker 1: especially poor black communities, so a lot of folks don't
Speaker 1: really feel the connection between their vote and their immediate
Speaker 1: lifestyle or you know, their immediate surroundings. So today, what
Speaker 1: we're going to do is discuss how real the connection
Speaker 1: between those two is. And the person that we have
Speaker 1: with us today is doctor Camilla Westenberg. Now, I do
Speaker 1: think it's very important. Obviously, many many people.
Speaker 2: Know who you are. You've worked with the.
Speaker 1: NAAC, You've worked for black people and all people, of
Speaker 1: course as an educator, but you've worked especially for black people,
Speaker 1: especially in Arizona, for many years decades. I happen to
Speaker 1: be around for a couple of those, so I know
Speaker 1: full well. But I think that for the people who
Speaker 1: may not know who you are, especially we'll call them
Speaker 1: allies who maybe are not black, but they're listening to
Speaker 1: today's show, they may not know who you are. So
Speaker 1: I think it's very important for us to establish who
Speaker 1: you are, and I think that that will help us
Speaker 1: really give some gravity to today's message. So we'll start
Speaker 1: how I know you. You are a professor emeritus of
Speaker 1: Phoenix College in Phoenix, Arizona.
Speaker 2: And how long did you teach there?
Speaker 3: Approximately thirty years, Okay.
Speaker 2: I think that that perspective is very important.
Speaker 1: To have the perspective of a teacher and educator and
Speaker 1: someone who has interacted with young people for her career.
Speaker 1: The majority of her career. But on top of that,
Speaker 1: you are also the.
Speaker 2: UH. I want to say second, but you know, okay.
Speaker 3: Because we have several branches fortunately here in Arizona. But
Speaker 3: I'm the second vice president for the Maricopa County branch
Speaker 3: of the na A CP and my focus is political action.
Speaker 2: Okay, very good.
Speaker 1: And I know that you have a long standing relationship
Speaker 1: with the A k As. So uh, you became an
Speaker 1: AKA yourself and continue to work with the akas as
Speaker 1: a high ranking UH member contributor.
Speaker 2: You know, I couldn't. I couldn't explain it as well
Speaker 2: as you.
Speaker 3: What I'll say, given that we're going down this rope,
Speaker 3: can do all my shout outs.
Speaker 2: Go ahead, that's what I want.
Speaker 3: I'll come back to being just me. I'm not representing
Speaker 3: any of the organizations that you're here for you. I'm
Speaker 3: here for me, representing Kamela Westenburg. But yes, UH, I
Speaker 3: am a member of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, the Delta
Speaker 3: Beata Omega Chapter. I am also a member of the
Speaker 3: Phoenix Chapter of Top Ladies of Distinction and a member
Speaker 3: of the Phoenix Chapter of the Links.
Speaker 1: Incorporated waly Okay, so a well qualified person to speak.
Speaker 2: On the issues that we're dealing with, uh today, or
Speaker 2: the topic that we're discussing today.
Speaker 3: So UH.
Speaker 1: With that said, Oh, and there's another thing that I
Speaker 1: wanted to mention U. I understand that there's a relationship
Speaker 1: that you have or or a familiarity you have with
Speaker 1: one of the founders of Black Lives Matter?
Speaker 2: Is that true?
Speaker 3: That's true? Okay, very good, that's true. I I'd l
Speaker 3: sort of like to keep her incognito because things are
Speaker 3: so treacherous out there in the world right now as
Speaker 3: things have unfolded, and I just want to assure the
Speaker 3: se safe keeping of everyone. But yes, I do know.
Speaker 1: One of the three founders, absolutely, So I think that's
Speaker 1: important as well, because I do want to establish that
Speaker 1: you are a member of the community, but you're also
Speaker 1: a very strong supporter and champion of issues that relate
Speaker 1: to the black community. So that as we discuss what's
Speaker 1: what's about what we're about to discuss, we know exactly
Speaker 1: who we're speaking to and and that the history that
Speaker 1: exists here, and so it's not someone who again if
Speaker 1: then the allies just tuning in right now doesn't know
Speaker 1: who we're dealing with.
Speaker 2: There's there's a lot of gravity here.
Speaker 1: So with that said, uh, you know, today I read
Speaker 1: an article and it said, uh, Trump supporters disrupt early
Speaker 1: voting in Virginia. Read through the article, and you know,
Speaker 1: they were out with their their flags. And while they
Speaker 1: obviously they could not prevent people from voting, the idea
Speaker 1: was to.
Speaker 2: At least to the people.
Speaker 1: That were reporting on the article, they took it to
Speaker 1: suggest their behavior, to suggest that they were trying to
Speaker 1: intimidate the people that were going in to vote. And
Speaker 1: I just want to know what are your thoughts on
Speaker 1: that or things like that that you've seen happen.
Speaker 3: I think there's definitely an element of that which is
Speaker 3: unfortunate the United States of America. I myself, whatever I
Speaker 3: see oversized flags in front of homes on trucks give
Speaker 3: me reason to stop and think. It suggests that there
Speaker 3: is a disposition of that person. I know from where
Speaker 3: that person is coming typically if you are sporting an
Speaker 3: American flag today. And I do think that there is
Speaker 3: an element of individuals who are there who do try
Speaker 3: to intimidate. But the voter suppression has always existed. The
Speaker 3: fact that my family, my mother and my father and
Speaker 3: my aunts had to pay a poll tax to vote.
Speaker 3: African Americans had to pay a poll tax, was a
Speaker 3: voter suppression, and that was not the case for individuals
Speaker 3: in my community who were not African American, and of
Speaker 3: course everyone could not afford to pay a poll tax.
Speaker 3: So it does carry over today. It has been said
Speaker 3: anctioned from the White House. Again. Remember this is Kamilla
Speaker 3: Westingberg today. And first, let me say thank you for
Speaker 3: the privilege to have the opportunity to speak to the public,
Speaker 3: because I cannot get out there at this age with
Speaker 3: COVID nineteen at seventy two. But I do want to talk,
Speaker 3: especially to young people eighteen through thirty forty that age
Speaker 3: who don't have a sensibility of what is really at risk.
Speaker 3: I am fearful. I am fearful for them. I am
Speaker 3: fearful for my granddaughter. I am fearful for senior citizens.
Speaker 3: I am fearful for humansanity because what I see occurring
Speaker 3: now has taken all of the humanity, humanitarian essence out
Speaker 3: of the world as we know it, and we're not
Speaker 3: functioning and interacting with each other as human beings, and
Speaker 3: so we're taking sides. And when you have a president
Speaker 3: who says beat them up, or if you're arresting someone,
Speaker 3: take them just throw them into the car and just
Speaker 3: don't don't make sure that they are secure, or you
Speaker 3: do it and I'll bail you out. And when you
Speaker 3: have someone who is bailing out at the highest level,
Speaker 3: individuals who have gone against and have had infractions that
Speaker 3: do not align with the Constitution of the United States
Speaker 3: and some of the basic things that if a simple
Speaker 3: person were to do it, they would not be supported.
Speaker 3: When you have that happening, it's a strange thing that's
Speaker 3: going on right now. There's a lot of turmoil. You
Speaker 3: have the right, you have left, you have alternative facts
Speaker 3: which can be documented as not being true, and so
Speaker 3: it's very, very troubling. And what my mission is at
Speaker 3: this point. We just lost someone on the Supreme Court
Speaker 3: and she had a dying wish and it is not
Speaker 3: even being acknowledged. Is not being acknowledged? How inhumane is that? All?
Speaker 3: Because you want power and money And I can talk
Speaker 3: about the money part of it too, but certainly the
Speaker 3: power is there. What I want is for young people,
Speaker 3: young adults to understand what is going on, and I
Speaker 3: want to applaud them for what they are doing. They
Speaker 3: have seen the inhumanity, especially toward black men, black women.
Speaker 3: The fact that we have social media now and a
Speaker 3: way to capture it. The world has begun to see
Speaker 3: what's taking place, but it has been hidden. I grew
Speaker 3: up in the South in Arkansas, right on the Mississippi River.
Speaker 3: Right on the other side was Mississippi, So I know
Speaker 3: very well what the possibilities are. Young people today may
Speaker 3: not have everything that they want. They may not have everything.
Speaker 3: None of us have everything that we want, but I
Speaker 3: know that some of them may certainly have a sizeable
Speaker 3: degree less than what they want. They have to understand
Speaker 3: what has occurred in the past and where it can
Speaker 3: go in the future. And I don't think you're prepared well.
Speaker 3: And I feel that I answered your question. Do I
Speaker 3: believe a suppression, but it is it is it is
Speaker 3: to intimidate well, the the uh you know, just myself.
Speaker 3: I you know, recently I did some some road tripping.
Speaker 1: And I spent a good amount of time in Middle
Speaker 1: America because there's a huge amount of it. And you know,
Speaker 1: I saw a lot of those Trump flags and you know,
Speaker 1: even on the West coast, and you know, on the
Speaker 1: East coast up north, you know, you'll see the American flag,
Speaker 1: and a lot of times, you know, a question that
Speaker 1: I would ask myself is like who are you? Why
Speaker 1: are you showing that flag here? You know, that'd be
Speaker 1: like if I wore a T shirt around my own
Speaker 1: house that had my address on it.
Speaker 2: You know, who am I showing you to? You understand?
Speaker 1: So I think that a lot of folks don't realize,
Speaker 1: or maybe they do realize and they're doing it on purpose,
Speaker 1: but it can be a very divisive symbol because I
Speaker 1: think that most of the people that wave that flag,
Speaker 1: with the exception of like military folks and you know,
Speaker 1: municipal buildings and things like that, it's meant to suggest
Speaker 1: this is our country, and who they're trying to show
Speaker 1: that to is people who are they don't consider to
Speaker 1: be them, And at the very least that's how it
Speaker 1: comes comes across. And so it's strange to see people
Speaker 1: with American flags, even them, and the subtle intimidation that
Speaker 1: perhaps they know that they're you know, uh uh putting
Speaker 1: out into the world, or maybe it's it's a little
Speaker 1: bit more overt because as soon as that's accompanied by
Speaker 1: a Trump flag, one of the ones out and in
Speaker 1: uh in Virginia. Then it's it's a decidedly more adversarial position.
Speaker 1: It's it's almost like MAGA versus b l M at
Speaker 1: a lot of these places.
Speaker 2: And so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would definitely, at least for me, I kind
Speaker 1: of view it as voter suppression or a tactic or
Speaker 1: in voter intimidation, because we can certainly talk about voter suppression,
Speaker 1: and I think we will.
Speaker 2: But says something.
Speaker 3: Every every group has its own way of demonstrating you are.
Speaker 3: I mean, you have the Black Power movement, you know
Speaker 3: these you all kinds of symbols. The flag, the American
Speaker 3: flag actually belongs to all of us as a Americans.
Speaker 3: By that particular cohort. There may be the disdain for
Speaker 3: an individual who will burn the flag, and I don't
Speaker 3: think anyone should burn the flag. I understand being upset
Speaker 3: about that there are symbols in this country, and I
Speaker 3: think we should be respectful of that. But by the
Speaker 3: same token, I don't think it means that you should
Speaker 3: take a whole population of people and oppose a whole
Speaker 3: population of people, especially if you were to understand the
Speaker 3: journey that they have taken sure and the road that
Speaker 3: they have trod up until this point, which is distinctly different.
Speaker 3: I mean, there is a thing as white privilege. It
Speaker 3: does exist, and if you're there, you may not see
Speaker 3: it on the other side. But part of the reason
Speaker 3: there is this fear, there is this real fear of minorities, Hispanics,
Speaker 3: China right now, look at what the day young people
Speaker 3: who are from China immigrants that they are being attacked
Speaker 3: because of COVID nineteen. You have to understand that our
Speaker 3: people need to understand that we are all people, and
Speaker 3: you really need individuals need to stop where they are.
Speaker 3: They need to stop it because we are not demonstrating
Speaker 3: the better part of humanity.
Speaker 1: Yeah, honestly, I recognize that, and I think that there's
Speaker 1: the majority of people's impulse. If I had to guess,
Speaker 1: of course, this is not something that you can really
Speaker 1: pull or you have a scientific approach to, But the
Speaker 1: majority of people, I have to believe are fundamentally good
Speaker 1: people and recognize that there's more that connects us than
Speaker 1: separates us. And as a result, I think that you know,
Speaker 1: there are some people who have been conditioned to just
Speaker 1: be adversary or anything that you say, they're going to
Speaker 1: say the opposite. That's just kind of in their nature,
Speaker 1: or they question, you know everything, and they are extra critical.
Speaker 1: And then there's other people whose impulses to perhaps lead
Speaker 1: with love, they come to the table first with understanding
Speaker 1: and so forth. Now, because I believe that most people
Speaker 1: have to feel that way on some level, we've survived
Speaker 1: as long as a species. It begs the question, why
Speaker 1: are the people? Why are those who are in power
Speaker 1: at present? How do they get that power without getting
Speaker 1: the majority of people to subscribe to those philosophies.
Speaker 3: What do you think, Well, it's a system. For one thing,
Speaker 3: we have the president right now because of the electoral college.
Speaker 3: You did not get the popular vote. So it is
Speaker 3: the design of our system. And then as we have
Speaker 3: gone through these four years, we have discovered that there
Speaker 3: are some loopholes in the system. And if so, if
Speaker 3: you don't have a person sitting on that pedestal who
Speaker 3: is on the up and up, and you bring in
Speaker 3: an attorney who is not on the up and up,
Speaker 3: and you look at a Senate that is of the
Speaker 3: same political persuasion, and there's a lot of power there.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of power in Washington, DC that affects
Speaker 3: us in an adversarial way, and many of the things
Speaker 3: and the reasons that people are tilting in one direction
Speaker 3: of the other direction. It's because of immigration, it's because
Speaker 3: of freedom of speech, it's because of freedom of religion.
Speaker 3: It's because of abortion, it's because of LBGT. It's all
Speaker 3: of those things that they in some instances oppose and say,
Speaker 3: I'm just I disagree with it. It should not be
Speaker 3: a part of this country. And so that's why I'm
Speaker 3: on this side of the fence. I understand how a
Speaker 3: person can take a position toward abortion. I have thought
Speaker 3: about that, and I know it occurred to me. If
Speaker 3: you don't want to take a child in its embryonic state,
Speaker 3: why do you not want to save a senior in
Speaker 3: his are her fading days on this earth? A life
Speaker 3: is a life, is a life is a life? Sure,
Speaker 3: and so I understand your position, and I agree the
Speaker 3: people's voice will have to be heard on that, and
Speaker 3: you have a lot of religious concepts about that. But
Speaker 3: then I look at COVID nineteen that impacts certainly senior citizens,
Speaker 3: and you have a president that says it is what
Speaker 3: it is.
Speaker 4: It's a very cavalier attitude toward them. How it doesn't
Speaker 4: compute well, I think that, you know, since we're talking
Speaker 4: about voting today and about a president, we're going to
Speaker 4: need to discuss how to change that. And if you're
Speaker 4: just if you're just tuning in to excite for today's
Speaker 4: guest is doctor Camilla Westenberg, Professor emeritus from Phnix College.
Speaker 4: And you mentioned earlier some of the voter suppression tactics
Speaker 4: that you were made aware.
Speaker 2: Of growing up in Arkansas. One of them was a
Speaker 2: poll tax.
Speaker 1: One that I'm familiar with is a I guess it
Speaker 1: would be a poll test with like impossible questions. And
Speaker 1: my understanding of at least the stories that I've read
Speaker 1: about this is that there would be a test given
Speaker 1: to black folks and a test given white folks, and
Speaker 1: the white folks is what's two plus two?
Speaker 2: The black folks is you.
Speaker 1: Know, calculate through trajectory of a rocket, you know that
Speaker 1: leaves or you know, like that sort of stuff. So
Speaker 1: very unfair, and it was blatant over a voter suppression.
Speaker 1: But there are some things that we're seeing today that
Speaker 1: are perhaps not as blatant, perhaps not as old vert
Speaker 1: I can think of one at least, which is this
Speaker 1: mail like mail fraud voter the suggestion rather that mail
Speaker 1: in ballots are going to be invalid or insecured or
Speaker 1: something like that. And then I think there's another one
Speaker 1: that says that early voting doesn't count or something like that.
Speaker 1: You know, So, what are your thoughts on on these
Speaker 1: more modern voter suppression tactics and how can people be
Speaker 1: mindful of them?
Speaker 3: Mail in ballots work? Okay, okay, I receive my ballot early. Sure,
Speaker 3: Up until recently, I would have thought that it would
Speaker 3: have been okay to put it in the mail. I
Speaker 3: just tend to like to walk in and deposit it
Speaker 3: in the slot. I don't have to stand in line.
Speaker 3: It's already filled out, its sign date, it's sealed, so
Speaker 3: I just walk in and put it in. There's something
Speaker 3: about making this statement of doing what I need to
Speaker 3: do and engaging in the process. There are a couple
Speaker 3: of things. The postal system has been compromised.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: Who would have thought that our president, the president would
Speaker 3: dare have taken down the individual who is in charge
Speaker 3: of overseeing the US postal system. Come rain, come snow,
Speaker 3: come sleep. Who would have thought this historical institution in
Speaker 3: our country would take down an individual who is skilled
Speaker 3: in the field and put a person who has been
Speaker 3: a billion dollar contributor to your campaign, who has no
Speaker 3: information about the industry, who does not even know the
Speaker 3: cost of a stamp, who walks in and does not
Speaker 3: do any type of research within a couple of days. Besides,
Speaker 3: I'm going to have trucks go and take up all
Speaker 3: of the mailboxes in select places around the country and
Speaker 3: remove them, which is an inconvenience. Who is taking sawders
Speaker 3: out of post offices? And of course these are devices,
Speaker 3: very expensive devices that can go through and sort them
Speaker 3: quickly for the mail to go where it needs to go.
Speaker 3: To take them out, dismantle them and sell them for scrap,
Speaker 3: for reducing the hours for your post deliverers to deliver mail,
Speaker 3: and to say you cannot do a second run, and
Speaker 3: have not done any research to understand how it is
Speaker 3: going to impact the country, how it is going to
Speaker 3: impact medicine getting to seniors or to veterans, or for
Speaker 3: people to get their bills in time, to pay their
Speaker 3: bills in time. That is voter suppression. When you uproot
Speaker 3: an institution, then of course everyone's going to be leary
Speaker 3: about the ballot, and you have set the stage for
Speaker 3: that this president is gifted in causing disruptions. He is
Speaker 3: a disruptor. And mind you, while all of the disruption
Speaker 3: is going on, I listen to the news twenty four
Speaker 3: to seven, he's signing executive orders, He's appointing judges and
Speaker 3: undermining the system that we have today unbeknownst And I
Speaker 3: want to say this unbeknownst in some instances to young people.
Speaker 3: And I don't want to just hit on young people,
Speaker 3: because there are some people my age who are not
Speaker 3: voting either. But unbeknownst to all of those particulars, while
Speaker 3: they are marching and protesting rightfully, they have the right
Speaker 3: to do that peacefully. And there is no reason for
Speaker 3: an army. Are people in military garb with all this
Speaker 3: gear that I don't even understand myself to stand there
Speaker 3: in front of them because they are peacefully protesting, that
Speaker 3: is there.
Speaker 2: Right I can serve no, no, no, no.
Speaker 3: I want them to march. I have to get this in.
Speaker 3: I want them to march. I want them to protest.
Speaker 3: I won't use the word riot. I don't want to
Speaker 3: say that. I want them to march and protest to
Speaker 3: the polls. I want them not to gather together in
Speaker 3: the evening and decide what are we going to do
Speaker 3: over the weekend. I want them, if they do it,
Speaker 3: gather together and register to vote, and get up in
Speaker 3: the morning, in daylight, on a new day, on a
Speaker 3: new day, with that ballot, and I would like to
Speaker 3: see all of them line up in mass, in mass,
Speaker 3: in mass and walk in Now. No' is supposed to
Speaker 3: be social distancing, but I'm leary of the post office.
Speaker 3: But you can go online and find out where the
Speaker 3: polling locations are, the hours, how long the wait is,
Speaker 3: and just go bare.
Speaker 2: Let me say this, bam, and just.
Speaker 3: Put it in one after do it. Do it. You
Speaker 3: have the power. You have the power. People have fought
Speaker 3: to give you the power. It's in your hands, it
Speaker 3: really is. And even if you don't believe in the system,
Speaker 3: I would dare say, trust grandmother, your grandfather, trust some
Speaker 3: of those seniors, trust those elders. Give it a try.
Speaker 3: He said that, He said that what do you have
Speaker 3: to lose? Well, hey, we're.
Speaker 2: Here, actually quite a bit.
Speaker 3: What we have to lose is I can't breathe.
Speaker 2: There you go, So how about this to.
Speaker 1: So I was watching a video the other day and
Speaker 1: the first part of the video there's a guy, and
Speaker 1: he's basically explaining why he's never voted. Some of his
Speaker 1: excuses for never voting are some of the ones that
Speaker 1: we touched on earlier.
Speaker 2: In the conversation.
Speaker 1: You know, no matter what I do, no matter who
Speaker 1: I vote for, neither one of these people have been
Speaker 1: in my neighborhood.
Speaker 2: They don't know me.
Speaker 1: I feel very divorced from the whole entire political process.
Speaker 1: I would not take the time off from working to
Speaker 1: make actual money, that does, you know, fortify my life
Speaker 1: against all of the perils that I could potentially encounter,
Speaker 1: to to engage in a political system that has forgotten
Speaker 1: me almost entirely. What would you say to the person
Speaker 1: who has that mindset with respect to voting.
Speaker 3: Well, my age probably has something to do with thinking
Speaker 3: or elaborating on how the system has forgotten you, because
Speaker 3: it has, and it hasn't.
Speaker 2: Tell him to talk to him.
Speaker 3: I grew up. Yeah, I'm gonna go back there.
Speaker 2: Leave.
Speaker 3: I grew up in an environment, in a segregated environment
Speaker 3: where all of my education was in a black school system,
Speaker 3: and I attended a historically black college. I won't do
Speaker 3: a shout out Arkansas, A M and N College Okay
Speaker 3: now the University of Arkansas at Pine Bluff. I could
Speaker 3: not drink from a while at a mountain. I could
Speaker 3: not eat at a restaurant. I could not use a bathroom.
Speaker 3: I remember my mother when we would travel, she'd like
Speaker 3: a little training part. She would take that. So we
Speaker 3: would have some degree a feeling like we were human
Speaker 3: beings when we were traveling because we could not stop
Speaker 3: and use a restroom. We could not get a hotel room.
Speaker 3: I couldn't try on hats, I couldn't try on shoes.
Speaker 3: All of those restrictions were placed on me. When my
Speaker 3: grandmother and grandfather went to the doctor, they went to
Speaker 3: the back to a separate colored waiting room, and you
Speaker 3: waited and waited, and at one point, when it was
Speaker 3: the whites were further down and you had blacks, you
Speaker 3: could see the whites going and coming out and going
Speaker 3: and coming out. That was a separate floor on the
Speaker 3: on the on the at the hospital, the black doctor
Speaker 3: could not practice at the hospital, so you had to
Speaker 3: go to a white doctor at that point. Uh. If
Speaker 3: you went to the movie, you had to sit up
Speaker 3: in the balcony. If you rode on the bus, you
Speaker 3: had to sit at the back and if you if
Speaker 3: a white person came on, you had to get up
Speaker 3: and relinquish your seats. That's the way it was in
Speaker 3: your life. Right now, you can drink from a water fountain,
Speaker 3: you can eat at a restaurant, you can use a bathroom,
Speaker 3: you can get a hotel room. There are so many things.
Speaker 3: It's not all right. Don't get it twisted. I am
Speaker 3: not saying that we are where we need to be,
Speaker 3: but there were steps taken. I was a sophomore in
Speaker 3: college when doctor King was killed, so I was there
Speaker 3: when the panthers with that, when Snick was involved.
Speaker 2: I want to make sure.
Speaker 1: I want to make sure people know that these things
Speaker 1: happen to you in your lifetime, in my lifetime.
Speaker 3: And the other thing that amazes me, Rameses, is this
Speaker 3: what's up? And I know time is important. There are
Speaker 3: people who are my age who were wearing sheets. They're
Speaker 3: out there right now, seventy two years old and they
Speaker 3: were wearing sheets. Now they've taken the sheets off.
Speaker 2: Now got badges.
Speaker 3: Now they've got badges. Now, Yes they do, yes they do.
Speaker 3: They've taken the sheets off. So they're they're the counterparts
Speaker 3: are there and just as I brought up my daughter,
Speaker 3: they're bringing up their children. So when you say you've
Speaker 3: been forgotten, yes, there is so much that needs to
Speaker 3: be done. But I would say that the fact that
Speaker 3: you are where you are is because there were individuals
Speaker 3: who functioned within the cystem to make it work, and
Speaker 3: you're going to have to pick up the mental and
Speaker 3: function within the system to make sure you put people
Speaker 3: there to make it work the way it should work.
Speaker 3: Or you can even go into the system yourself.
Speaker 1: How about that speak speak how about that talk about
Speaker 1: the importance of voting in local elections.
Speaker 3: Well, all of the decisions that are made by the
Speaker 3: judges about the prison system, about transpor about the school system,
Speaker 3: all of those decisions not just judges, but commissioners, your governor,
Speaker 3: all of those decisions made at the local level.
Speaker 2: They're not appointed positions.
Speaker 3: You go in and you vote. You go in, you vote. Now,
Speaker 3: I'll just say I have historically as an African American Democrat,
Speaker 3: and I tend to vote down ticket. I tend to
Speaker 3: for the most part, vote down ticket. But you need
Speaker 3: to do your research. Don't be intimidated by the process.
Speaker 3: Just don't be intimidated by the process. I would dare
Speaker 3: say if you want to if you want to put
Speaker 3: if you want to go through the process and get
Speaker 3: a zoom together where we can work through it, I'd
Speaker 3: love to do it. I'd love to do it. Doing
Speaker 3: voter registration right now with eighteen through thirty year old
Speaker 3: who are unregistered voters, I'm going to move into mobilization
Speaker 3: as soon as October the fifth. By the way, October
Speaker 3: the fifth is the last opportunity that you have to
Speaker 3: register to vote online, and I would say do it pronto.
Speaker 3: You use the devices for everything else, take it out
Speaker 3: and register to vote. Even if you're not sure right
Speaker 3: now that you're going to vote, just do it anyway.
Speaker 3: October fifth is the last date to do it online.
Speaker 3: And I said do it online because we know the
Speaker 3: US postal system has been compromised, so you want to
Speaker 3: get that request in early. You can get a one
Speaker 3: time only early ballot, You can get an absentee ballot,
Speaker 3: or you can get a pebble, which is a permanent
Speaker 3: early ballot, which means that ballot from now on, all
Speaker 3: of your ballots in the future will be mailed to you.
Speaker 3: They will come to your home. And that's what I
Speaker 3: have all of my ballots come to my own same Yeah,
Speaker 3: and you can just take it and drop it in.
Speaker 3: You can put it in the mail if you decide
Speaker 3: to do that. I'll vote. I wanted to register.
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about something that I think is
Speaker 1: kind of interesting. You mentioned how Trump appointed basically one
Speaker 1: of his campaign contributors, one of his buddies, to run
Speaker 1: the US postal system. But as a teacher, I know
Speaker 1: that this one also resonated with you when he appointed
Speaker 1: someone who is not a teacher, not a principal, never
Speaker 1: never sent her children to a public school.
Speaker 2: As the.
Speaker 1: I forget the title of the position, but basically she's
Speaker 1: the person in charge of Secretary of Education. So I
Speaker 1: think it's important to recognize that we've seen this.
Speaker 2: Tactic used.
Speaker 1: Before, where he just kind of put someone in who's
Speaker 1: not qualified but who will basically, you know, support his interests.
Speaker 1: And in this case, you know, that's not unusual for
Speaker 1: politicians to do, but in this case it really comes
Speaker 1: at the detriment of a lot of people, even people
Speaker 1: who vote for him or people who wave those flags
Speaker 1: around anything and are largely unaware of the implications of
Speaker 1: his They've elected him, but they're aware of the implications
Speaker 1: of the decisions that he makes. And then now we're
Speaker 1: we're seeing that on this end. When it comes to
Speaker 1: the voting process, I've always voted by mail and it's
Speaker 1: never been a question until recently. You know, the battle
Speaker 1: it comes to my house, fill it out.
Speaker 2: It works great. You know, it's the United States.
Speaker 3: Postale, unless you decide to.
Speaker 1: Change it or shift the optics, or you know, shift
Speaker 1: the narrative entirely take it away or yeah, just completely,
Speaker 1: you know. So, yeah, absolutely, And I do want to
Speaker 1: talk about your initiative.
Speaker 2: To get people registered to vote.
Speaker 1: I want to leave them with that, but I also
Speaker 1: wanted to make sure that we discussed.
Speaker 2: What it means to.
Speaker 1: The voter suppression, but also what it means to or
Speaker 1: what jerrymandering means, because that's another tactic that's often used
Speaker 1: to sway votes in one direction or another. Now, now,
Speaker 1: before you, before you jump in, I recognize that there
Speaker 1: is a lot more engagement for people who feel.
Speaker 2: Republicans just say it.
Speaker 1: Republicans engage at a much higher rate than those with
Speaker 1: a democratic belief system. This is actually a poll that's
Speaker 1: been taken many times, and the truth is that more
Speaker 1: people in this country. Humans on the ground level subscribe
Speaker 1: to a democratic esque philosophy in their personal lives, but
Speaker 1: those people don't engage in the in the process, they
Speaker 1: don't engage in what I now consider to be all
Speaker 1: of our civic duty. Once upon a time, it was
Speaker 1: just a cool thing to say to my friends. Now
Speaker 1: I recognize that, oh this is very important and I
Speaker 1: need to bring someone with me. And jerrymandering has been
Speaker 1: used as.
Speaker 5: A tool or a tactic to support you know, the the.
Speaker 1: I guess I don't want I don't I want you
Speaker 1: to explain what it is and how it works. But
Speaker 1: it's been used to support a lot of Republican candidates
Speaker 1: or otherwise get them elected.
Speaker 2: In your view, how.
Speaker 1: Can we first off, what is jerry MANU? I left
Speaker 1: it out so you can make it top heavy. And
Speaker 1: then how can we deal with gerrymandering?
Speaker 3: Well, it really is dictated by who you have at
Speaker 3: the helm. Okay, if you have, you need to first.
Speaker 3: I love the title of your show Civic CIPO, because
Speaker 3: I think that's part of the problem. We don't have
Speaker 3: civics any longer. It isn't taught any longer, so we
Speaker 3: have a whole population of individuals don't understand how the
Speaker 3: system functions, and they don't understand that there should be
Speaker 3: a checks and balance that takes place within the system. Sure,
Speaker 3: and so what what you have is a cohort of
Speaker 3: individuals that is pulling individuals and making it lopsided, the
Speaker 3: voting power to be lopsided in one direction. You know,
Speaker 3: if you right now, how many things have you had
Speaker 3: to go through the House and then it gets to
Speaker 3: the Senate and bam, it stops.
Speaker 2: They don't even consider it.
Speaker 3: They don't even call a vote. McConnell does not even
Speaker 3: call a vote. They just sit on it.
Speaker 1: There's and and the and I think that the way
Speaker 1: that this happens, well, well just to kind of to
Speaker 1: bring those up to speed who might not know because
Speaker 1: it's a word that gets used a lot, but if
Speaker 1: you never took civics one on one, you might not
Speaker 1: be familiar with it. But jerry mandering is basically drawing
Speaker 1: or redrawing voter districts to favor one political ideology or
Speaker 1: one candidate. So let's say in a city you have
Speaker 1: a majority Democratic voters, you can split up the cities
Speaker 1: into voting districts where a Republican candidate will win in
Speaker 1: a landslide. You know, it just depends on how you
Speaker 1: draw the districts. And now that there's the population is
Speaker 1: so much larger, you know, there's algorithms that kind of
Speaker 1: help out.
Speaker 3: And that's why you have the Senate the way it.
Speaker 2: Is right now, exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: So one of the thoughts that I had about how
Speaker 1: to offset this tactic is an overwhelming and I think
Speaker 1: you'll like this, an overwhelming dis display of support, an
Speaker 1: overwhelming display of humanity, because if these numbers are to
Speaker 1: be believed, and most people have a democratic or sorry yeah,
Speaker 1: a democratic esque philosophy in their personal lives. For those
Speaker 1: people who have never been or you know, don't really
Speaker 1: see a connection with the civil the engaging and their
Speaker 1: civic duty and their their immediate lives, if they were
Speaker 1: to just take the chance and engage, we might see
Speaker 1: a lot of the power come back to the people
Speaker 1: and the wishes of the people be fulfilled and a
Speaker 1: lot less complaining because everyone is involved. Even though these
Speaker 1: systems exist, they can't beat everyone. They only can beat
Speaker 1: someone who is where it's approximately equal. And so as
Speaker 1: a result, we're able to get some democratic elected officials,
Speaker 1: some Republican elect officials, but I think that that's largely
Speaker 1: due to the fact that Democrats folks don't engage in
Speaker 1: the process to the.
Speaker 2: Degree that the census has a lot to do with that.
Speaker 2: And I was going to talk about the census.
Speaker 3: The since it's has a lot to work to get yes,
Speaker 3: because that dictates where are the money and the resources
Speaker 3: go okay, and so if you're saying you're not receiving something,
Speaker 3: that's those lines too. If you don't put your self
Speaker 3: in there, then you're not going to receive You're not
Speaker 3: going to get the appropriate amount of money, whether it's
Speaker 3: for a hospital that you want in your community, for
Speaker 3: education in your community, for roads in the community, all
Speaker 3: of those resources that you're going to need, you're not
Speaker 3: going to get the funding because you're not appearing there.
Speaker 3: And that has been cut short by a month. I
Speaker 3: understand that the date to the last date for the
Speaker 3: census has been unless that has changed, it has been shortened,
Speaker 3: and there's rhyme and reason as to why.
Speaker 1: So if you're just tuning in once again, our guest
Speaker 1: today on civic sideher is doctor Camilla Westenberg, Professor Emeritus
Speaker 1: of Phoenix College discussing voting the importance of voting, some
Speaker 1: of the tactics used against voters to suppress their vote,
Speaker 1: and another thing that I wanted to talk about, and
Speaker 1: this is a slight pivot, but one of the things
Speaker 1: that has been in the air a lot because of
Speaker 1: the protests and so forth, is this call.
Speaker 2: To defund the police.
Speaker 1: Obviously, there's the Black Lives Matter, the Black trans Lives Matter,
Speaker 1: there's even other people that say all lives matter. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of active elements in this country right now.
Speaker 1: But with respect to defund the police, for those who first,
Speaker 1: if you've never heard this idea before, the idea in
Speaker 1: short is to it's not purge. I spoke with Zara
Speaker 1: from Black Lives Matter. She explained that she hears that
Speaker 1: a lot. It's not purge.
Speaker 2: The idea is.
Speaker 1: That we as a society are asking police to do
Speaker 1: more than they are capable of doing, and we need
Speaker 1: other systems in place to affect crime rates, to prevent
Speaker 1: certain crimes from happening altogether, to lessen the likelihood of
Speaker 1: them happening, or to have a different approach to different
Speaker 1: types of nine one one calls right. And so this
Speaker 1: call to defund the police, which admittedly on its face
Speaker 1: sounds very alarming, is really just a call to redistribute
Speaker 1: the fiscal resources of the police department in a manner
Speaker 1: that is consistent with actually preventing crimes and actually creating
Speaker 1: the sort of changes that we'd like to see, you know.
Speaker 1: Not everything requires a person to show up with a gun,
Speaker 1: you know, because then there's the potential to escalate the
Speaker 1: situation exists. For those people who feel like, well, first off,
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts on that, now that it's explained.
Speaker 3: Well, I do believe that we need the police department.
Speaker 3: I mean, we grew up thinking I'm a mister friendly public.
Speaker 3: Call the police and you think someone is coming to
Speaker 3: help you right now? Difficulty we call the police, I
Speaker 3: would not.
Speaker 4: But.
Speaker 3: Well, I think there are certain situations where you're I
Speaker 3: know what you might but I gotcha, I gotcha. But
Speaker 3: I do think that the police system is a brotherhood,
Speaker 3: and it is a brotherhood that's infiltrated with some individuals
Speaker 3: that are a racist and some philosophies. There is no
Speaker 3: getting around that they are there. Now the recruitment and
Speaker 3: the training and how do you bring them in to
Speaker 3: determine what their predisposition is is something that really needs
Speaker 3: to be looked at. But the police department has a
Speaker 3: major major problem. Not all policemen are bad, but many
Speaker 3: of them are sure. And I do think that when
Speaker 3: those nine to one one calls come in that it
Speaker 3: needs to be determined what type of service is needed.
Speaker 3: For example, the brother that was taken down on the street,
Speaker 3: his brother called in because he was having difficulty, and
Speaker 3: they took him down, put a spit mask over him
Speaker 3: and he died. That wasn't necessary. The concept of de
Speaker 3: escalation is something that really needs to be a major
Speaker 3: major part of the training. And it may be that
Speaker 3: with the police department they need to have a partner
Speaker 3: that is there on certain calls that when they go out,
Speaker 3: you don't have just these individuals with gun and mace
Speaker 3: and cuss of whatever. But there is someone else who
Speaker 3: is skilled in psychology or sociology that can look at
Speaker 3: it and say, wait a minute, this is what needs
Speaker 3: to happen here, what needs to occur. So I do
Speaker 3: think that that whole system needs to be revamped because
Speaker 3: you have an a sizeable number of people in the
Speaker 3: police department. In my I'll just call it a a racist.
Speaker 3: They are racist, and they are there to get their
Speaker 3: mark and they go back and say, I took them down.
Speaker 3: I took them down. And so I think the resources,
Speaker 3: the deep funding that it needs to be redistributed, and
Speaker 3: it need to be needs to be redistributed with another
Speaker 3: segment of the police department that can deal with issues
Speaker 3: that are in there and they can be buzz words
Speaker 3: that will trigger them that Okay, we need a rider
Speaker 3: with us on this particular run because we don't need
Speaker 3: to go at it the way we're going at it.
Speaker 1: We have a first a real first responder. You go
Speaker 1: in and you assess the situation and find out what
Speaker 1: it needs, you know, and we'll be there to support you.
Speaker 3: Because there is a pandemic. We have a pandemic with
Speaker 3: African Americans. We really do in the police department, and
Speaker 3: it has been going on forever and a day when
Speaker 3: they talk about mothers talking to their sons before they
Speaker 3: go out, yes, it's true. It's true. It has been
Speaker 3: a pandemic and the world has not known about it.
Speaker 3: Just recently have they been able to see it so rightfully.
Speaker 3: So people are angry. It reaches a point where enough
Speaker 3: is enough, and that's where you are, and we were
Speaker 3: at that point. You came through slavery, where you had
Speaker 3: protest and you fought back, and you moved ahead, and
Speaker 3: then you moved to the civil rights movement where you
Speaker 3: have civil rights. But then you have the panthers and
Speaker 3: the Black Power movement, and you move ahead, and then
Speaker 3: we move further along. But what has happened now is
Speaker 3: that we are going back, and we are going with
Speaker 3: who we have as the president. Now. I guess I'm
Speaker 3: lobbying right now needs to come out. He's arrogant. He's rude.
Speaker 3: As a matter of fact, if you listen to the
Speaker 3: way that he talks when he's standing at the podium,
Speaker 3: you want to talk gangster, I can see that. If
Speaker 3: you want to talk gangster, he's it. Yeah, And he's entertaining,
Speaker 3: and he's joking, and he says rude things about people unnecessarily.
Speaker 3: So I sit and I look at the people who
Speaker 3: are cheering, and I think, is this what you want
Speaker 3: for your children? Is this what you really want? And
Speaker 3: I have begun to even wonder about the base. And
Speaker 3: I won't say this is a harsh thing to say.
Speaker 3: I think there is an insecurity. I think there's an
Speaker 3: insecurity there, okay, and a lack of knowledge, Lily, and
Speaker 3: that is why they can be taken so easily, why
Speaker 3: they can say I'm not going to wear a mask.
Speaker 3: If I die, I die to succumb I do see
Speaker 3: it as a cult, and we have it in our hands.
Speaker 3: The messes we know, we know. I don't think that
Speaker 3: if if he loses, that the transition is going to
Speaker 3: be a smooth one. He has not had adhered to
Speaker 3: the Constitution and I don't think he will here. He
Speaker 3: does not have that type of grace, He does not
Speaker 3: have that type of sophistication. He does not believe in
Speaker 3: the Constitution.
Speaker 2: He believes in himself money and money.
Speaker 1: Okay, that that you ain't lied about that, Okay, So uh,
Speaker 1: we have a few minutes left. What is it that
Speaker 1: you want, doctor Westernberg for the people listening to this
Speaker 1: show to take away from this conversation.
Speaker 3: I want them to know that they are powerful, They
Speaker 3: are very, very powerful, and that their power really is
Speaker 3: held in the ballot.
Speaker 2: In the ballot.
Speaker 3: It isn't the ballot. Doctor King said. There is an urgency.
Speaker 2: And now absolutely.
Speaker 3: And they understand the urgency and people are acting on it.
Speaker 3: But you're going to have to get in the mix.
Speaker 3: The fact is, I was thinking yesterday you say you
Speaker 3: don't believe in the system. But the fact is, we're.
Speaker 1: Living in the system, no matter what, no matter what,
Speaker 1: that's what it is.
Speaker 3: That's what it is. You live in the system. And
Speaker 3: so what you need to do is get into the
Speaker 3: system and work it. And you can work, and you
Speaker 3: can work it powerfully, powerfully.
Speaker 2: Learn the rules and play the game.
Speaker 3: Play the game.
Speaker 1: So I just want to ask, and you know, obviously
Speaker 1: this is a something you don't have to share, but
Speaker 1: I happen to know that Harris is one of your
Speaker 1: sorority sisters, and I've heard your thoughts on Donald Trump,
Speaker 1: and because it's a two party system here, I'm left
Speaker 1: to assume that you might like his opponent more than him,
Speaker 1: And so I want to ask, who will you be
Speaker 1: voting for.
Speaker 3: I will be voting with Joe Biden, right and Kamala
Speaker 3: Very good, Okay, yes, okay. They are grounded at least,
Speaker 3: and they are grounded eloquently in the system of the
Speaker 3: United States. They are grounded in democracy.
Speaker 2: Very good.
Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate you stopping by, doctor Camilla Westenberg chance
Speaker 1: to share.
Speaker 3: My thoughts because I can't get out there on the streets.
Speaker 1: We chat for twenty years, fifteen of those I've been
Speaker 1: on the radio, and this is the first time I've
Speaker 1: been able to have a conversation with you like this
Speaker 1: on the radio.
Speaker 2: So thank you for sticking with me. Finally got a
Speaker 2: place for you to come.
Speaker 1: Anyway, and thank you for listening to another episode of
Speaker 1: Civic Cipher. Don't forget to check out civiccipher dot com.
Speaker 1: You can submit questions for the show show topics. Of course,
Speaker 1: you can follow all of our social media at Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1: And don't forget the show is supported by listeners, by viewers,
Speaker 1: and of course there's a way to support the show
Speaker 1: on the website. Again, that's civiccipher dot com. And before
Speaker 1: you go, how can people stay in touch with you
Speaker 1: on social media or otherwise?
Speaker 3: The social media thing that they can email me? Sure, okay,
Speaker 3: an email and that is C A, H W, E, S, T, E,
Speaker 3: N B S and boy at aol dot com.
Speaker 1: Very good, and thank you again for coming out, and
Speaker 1: thank you for listening to another episode of Civic Cipher.