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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, Welcome The Mother Knows Death. We have a

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Speaker 1: special episode that we are doing with our friend Gandhi

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Speaker 1: from Sauce on the side.

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Speaker 2: I know, I'm so excited about this episode. By the way,

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Speaker 2: I've been waiting on it.

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Speaker 3: We are huge fans of your show.

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Speaker 2: Same. I think you guys are amazing and I love

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Speaker 2: what you do. I said all the time, I love

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Speaker 2: women in science. It's not that women are not in science.

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Speaker 2: I feel like women don't get highlighted enough who are

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Speaker 2: in science. I think the guys get a lot of attention,

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Speaker 2: but when women are doing good things, I love it.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, thanks for doing this with me.

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Speaker 1: It's really interesting that you say that, because, especially in

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Speaker 1: my field, it's predominantly women now. But when I started training,

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Speaker 1: it was like the older people that were there there

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Speaker 1: were more men. So it's just interesting how it's transitioning.

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Speaker 2: And I bet that the women are just doing amazing jobs.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, totally.

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Speaker 2: So we have like a ton of stuff to talk about, right, Yes,

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Speaker 2: I want to know how you guys. We're doing a

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Speaker 2: crossover episode, so your listeners are going to hear me,

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Speaker 2: and my listeners are going to hear you, and I'm

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Speaker 2: excited about that for a lot of reasons, but mostly

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Speaker 2: because I could talk to you all for a million

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Speaker 2: years about one hundred different things. We got started talking

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Speaker 2: about Charlie Kirk in the hallway. Yeah, I don't know

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Speaker 2: where you guys want to start, So I feel like

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Speaker 2: you should. You should take the lead on this and

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Speaker 2: tell us where we're going.

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Speaker 1: All right, So I'm I've heard a rumor that they

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Speaker 1: said that he did not have an autopsy done. Mm hmm,

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Speaker 1: Charlie Kirk. But okay, I would like to know where

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Speaker 1: that came from. Officially, I think that it is very unlike.

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Speaker 1: I think that's unlikely, just the way that the law

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Speaker 1: works in every jurisdiction. If you have a homicide case,

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Speaker 1: it's an automatic autopsy. So I think that, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're used to maybe in LA, especially the records are public.

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Speaker 1: We can go on and we could get people's full

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Speaker 1: autopsy reports, including celebrit He's like Michael Jackson. But certain

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Speaker 1: states are not that open, and Utah could possibly be

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Speaker 1: one of them that they just say it's none of

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Speaker 1: the public's business and you're not having that information. So

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Speaker 1: I think that definitely after so when a person dies

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Speaker 1: in that situation at the hospital. The hospital is required

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Speaker 1: to report that death, and they would report it to

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Speaker 1: the Medical Examiner's office and then they would come pick

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Speaker 1: up the body and bring it to the MORG and

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Speaker 1: do the autopsy. I don't see how in any world

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Speaker 1: that wouldn't have been done. They don't even care if

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Speaker 1: he had religious exemptions or anything like. They're doing it

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Speaker 1: because it's going to be a court case and they're

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Speaker 1: going to have to testify, And how could anyone testify

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Speaker 1: if no one examined it.

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Speaker 2: So the confusion is probably no autopsy versus no autopsy report,

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Speaker 2: at least to the public. You're saying there has to

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Speaker 2: be one.

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Speaker 1: There has to be otherwise the guy who we could

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Speaker 1: talk about if he did it.

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Speaker 2: Tyler Robinson, if he did it, because I think we're

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Speaker 2: kind of all on the same page, like, no, I

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Speaker 2: think we don't think so at this point.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people are on that page.

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Speaker 3: I was.

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Speaker 1: I was fallen for a little while until that the

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Speaker 1: text messages came out and then I'm like, Okay, this

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Speaker 1: is weird. If they were if they were eighty year olds,

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Speaker 1: you might believe it or something. I just don't even

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Speaker 1: at our age, Like if you looked at your text

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Speaker 1: messages with your friends, they would be all abbreviations and.

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Speaker 2: Without a doubt, Yeah, I wouldn't have like some Shakespearean

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Speaker 2: wording to my significant other about nonthing. It would be

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Speaker 2: very weird.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I just thought. I just thought that that was

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Speaker 1: weird and it just makes me question things now. But

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Speaker 1: for sure, if they're going to try to prosecute someone,

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Speaker 1: there has to be an autopsy because otherwise, how are

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Speaker 1: you gonna prove anything just because of the footage? Like, no,

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Speaker 1: that that could be for all you know, right, Like.

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Speaker 3: Could they hold on to the report until the trial happens,

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Speaker 3: because we like we don't always get them right away.

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Speaker 3: Most of the time when they come out, it's because

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Speaker 3: TMS reporters are waiting and they get them immediately. But

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Speaker 3: we had requested the one for in the David case,

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Speaker 3: the less Revus autopsy report. Yes, and they're basically like,

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Speaker 3: you're not getting it until this case.

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Speaker 1: Is we still haven't gotten it, and we right, and

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Speaker 1: you paid for it, paid.

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Speaker 3: For it, and they sent me one page that said

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Speaker 3: nothing and that's that.

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Speaker 2: How much does it cost to request an autopsy report?

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Speaker 2: That one was.

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Speaker 3: Thirty four dollars, I believe.

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Speaker 2: And you can request this from anyone anywhere, because I

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Speaker 2: think I might go request an autopsy report about something

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Speaker 2: that I've been interested in for a while.

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Speaker 1: I believe anybody can get certain offices depending on you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like for La, Yes, like New York doesn't oftentimes release

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Speaker 1: the whole report. They might just give a diagnosis or

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Speaker 1: something like that. There's all these different rules depending where

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Speaker 1: you are, but there's lots like let's talk about the

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Speaker 1: Brian Coberger Idaho for a case, for example. This whole time,

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Speaker 1: I haven't written about it on my website because I

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Speaker 1: was like, I want to wait and see what the

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Speaker 1: autopsy reports say. They never got released, and then they

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Speaker 1: just released a bunch of stuff because he pled guilty,

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Speaker 1: and they're still not really autopsy reports. They're more like

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Speaker 1: summery too. Yeah, but I've never seen an actual autopsy

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Speaker 1: report on each one of those victims yet. There's summaries

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Speaker 1: maybe some describing some of the wounds, but it's not

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Speaker 1: a full autopsy report, so that we might not ever

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Speaker 1: see that, And I guess for public interest it's probably

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Speaker 1: they should because there's so many questions. But at the

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Speaker 1: same time, they're scared to death that people are going

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Speaker 1: to pick it apart like another case that we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about later. Okay, So so that right there

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Speaker 1: I think is not correct. Information is I could be wrong,

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Speaker 1: but I just don't see in a world if a

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Speaker 1: court case is happening, how there could not be an autopsy.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's fascinating that the more information we have

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Speaker 2: at our fingertips, it's like we have no information because

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Speaker 2: you're getting seventy thousand different people saying different things at

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Speaker 2: one time. Most of them haven't actually done the research

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Speaker 2: on how this works, or talk to a specialist who says, hey,

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Speaker 2: you can't have a murder without an autopsy report. It

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Speaker 2: doesn't mean the autopsy report is going to be accurate

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Speaker 2: or honest, but there will be a report to which

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Speaker 2: that was my question to you, How easy is it

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Speaker 2: to fix an autopsy report or to report something differently

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Speaker 2: from what you actually find?

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Speaker 1: Well, if that, if if I were to receive that

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Speaker 1: particular case, or any just anyone in this field, should

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what should be done. They're going to

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Speaker 1: photograph the hell out of it. Right, So, even if

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Speaker 1: the report maybe doesn't one hundred percent match. They could

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Speaker 1: look at the pictures and be like an And that

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Speaker 1: could happen time time, especially if someone is shot a

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Speaker 1: bunch of times and there's multiple wounds to document, you

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Speaker 1: might miss one when you're writing it down. When we

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Speaker 1: are taking when we're looking at a body on the table,

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Speaker 1: we take notes, and oftentimes those notes get very bloody

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Speaker 1: because we're using pens and touching organs, and the pens

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Speaker 1: are bloody, the PaperWorks bloody. So then, like when I

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Speaker 1: used to do it, I would put it in a

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Speaker 1: biohazard bag that was clear, and then take it back

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Speaker 1: to my desk and rewrite what I wrote. So sometimes,

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Speaker 1: you know, there could just be a simple mistake as

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Speaker 1: far as that goes. But in a case like his,

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Speaker 1: I feel like there would have been witnesses to see

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Speaker 1: the autopsy, lots of documentation, just lots, and there's going

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Speaker 1: to be from not only from the autopsy, but also

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Speaker 1: from you know, he did go to the hospital and

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Speaker 1: they did appear to do some intervention on him, so

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Speaker 1: that would also be added, you know, correlated together to

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Speaker 1: make sure that everyone's account And then of course we

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Speaker 1: all saw the video, all of us, like everyone in

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Speaker 1: the world.

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Speaker 2: Seventy five different angles. Yeah, and I think if people

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Speaker 2: haven't been following along with this, there just are a

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Speaker 2: lot of inconsistencies with what the public is being told

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Speaker 2: and what now you're finding out, including the people who

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Speaker 2: are going back and looking at Google trend searches and

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Speaker 2: things that people searched before the incident, and how there

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Speaker 2: was a spike in certain things and then all of

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Speaker 2: a sudden that information was wiped, and how they're saying

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Speaker 2: this is a what do they call it? A thirty

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Speaker 2: six rifle.

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Speaker 4: Something like that.

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Speaker 2: Clearly I'm not an expert of this, but there are

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Speaker 2: a lot of gun experts who say a bullet from

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Speaker 2: that specific rifle would cause so much more damage to

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Speaker 2: a human body than what actually happened, and that they

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Speaker 2: don't believe that what we saw was an entrance wound.

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Speaker 2: They believe that was an exit wound. And now there

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Speaker 2: are a lot of theories that, oh, it came from

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Speaker 2: his lava leer mic. It was a very set up

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Speaker 2: assassination of a person who people wanted to be silenced

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Speaker 2: for a lot of different reasons. So I'm fascinated by this.

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Speaker 2: I'm fascinated by how everything has played out since and

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Speaker 2: how little we've heard about or from the actual suspect,

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Speaker 2: who Again, I don't think any of us really believe

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Speaker 2: that this person did it, but it's just it's a wild,

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Speaker 2: wild ride, and it's one of those things where I wonder,

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Speaker 2: are we ever going to get the truth here? You

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Speaker 2: guys have to have some cases like that where you

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Speaker 2: feel the same way too, well.

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Speaker 1: I mean like JFK is the first, right, Yeah, perfect

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Speaker 1: example of forensic experts going back and looking at it

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Speaker 1: and being like, yeah, no, there's no way. And I agree.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, my brother has a weapon similar

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Speaker 1: to that that he uses for hunting, and I was

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Speaker 1: really asking him like, what's the purpose of this, and

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Speaker 1: it's just like, the purpose is that you have a

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Speaker 1: moving target, you have one chance, and it's to cause

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Speaker 1: a lot of disruption inside of the body to make

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Speaker 1: sure that they're down.

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Speaker 2: And talking about big animals, yeah, not a small not exactly. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So you know, my expertise is more in pathology rather

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Speaker 1: than gunshot wounds. So I don't want to say I personally,

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Speaker 1: just the things that I've seen during my training and everything,

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Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of injuries by that type of

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Speaker 1: a weapon. And they're a lot they're a lot more

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Speaker 1: gruesome than that particular one was. I mean, obviously he died,

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Speaker 1: so it did what it was supposed to do in

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Speaker 1: a sense, but there's just lots of different theories that

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Speaker 1: that could be an exit wound, and you're just getting

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Speaker 1: different reporting, I mean from a couple legitimate sources I

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Speaker 1: guess you would consider legitimate news. Like some people were

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Speaker 1: saying he was wearing a bulletproofess, some people were saying

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Speaker 1: he wasn't. That could change things because the bullet could

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Speaker 1: ricochet off of that and things like that. So we

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Speaker 1: don't have like any documentation except to hearsay at this point.

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Speaker 1: Even some of the interviews like his friends have done afterwards,

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Speaker 1: you could kind of get a series of like he

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Speaker 1: was in the car and they were saying there was

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Speaker 1: a chance that they would restored a pulse and all

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Speaker 1: of that. But like when I saw that video, it

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Speaker 1: was very jarring because I knew he was dead, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So it's just this is just going to be the

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Speaker 1: way life is from now on with every single thing

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Speaker 1: that happens as far because anytime something goes on social media,

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Speaker 1: you just have people that are experts in every single field.

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Speaker 1: I just saw this cool video. Actually, I'll send it

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Speaker 1: to you if I could find it. But this guy

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Speaker 1: had the same as that gun, and he was a

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Speaker 1: firearms expert, and he had put it together with this

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Speaker 1: little key they said he used that. He took it

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Speaker 1: apart and was showing how long it took to do

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Speaker 1: it and how big it was and how you couldn't

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Speaker 1: like jump off the side of the building with it

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Speaker 1: in your pants and all of this stuff. And you're

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Speaker 1: just looking at that, and that guy's not involved in

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Speaker 1: the case. But when you look at him doing it,

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Speaker 1: you're like, well, there is there another way to do it?

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Speaker 1: Or is like this it and that was not possible?

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Speaker 1: So it does you do listen to people and you're like,

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Speaker 1: oh shit, like maybe maybe this is this is not

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Speaker 1: how they're telling us. And honestly, like they have a

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Speaker 1: history of this. I don't know who they is necessarily,

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Speaker 1: but the government with JFK. You know what's funny. My

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Speaker 1: husband and my kids we took a road trip and

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Speaker 1: we drove through Dallas because I wanted to see the

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Speaker 1: sixth floor of the of the book. Yeah, I always

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Speaker 1: mess this up because my father in law always calls

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Speaker 1: it the depository or the depository. You got it right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I got it right. And then I'm like, I keep

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Speaker 1: telling them I'm gonna kill you because you're gonna make

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Speaker 1: me slip one day. But yeah, So they have a

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Speaker 1: museum on the sixth floor there where Oswald was supposed

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Speaker 1: to be when he shot him. And I thought it

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Speaker 1: was really bizarre because the whole corner of that building

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Speaker 1: where he was standing at that window was blocked off

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Speaker 1: with a large piece of plexiglass and nobody was allowed

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Speaker 1: to go near it, right, and I'll.

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Speaker 2: Actually get a good view of what his view would

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Speaker 2: be exactly Deally Plaza.

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Speaker 1: Ridiculous, Yes, And you're just like, there's a reason for that,

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Speaker 1: because they know that people that are experts are gonna

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Speaker 1: go up there and take pictures and measurements and optics

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Speaker 1: or whatever they're gonna do and be like, yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: that didn't happen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And even they say the way that the Secret

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Speaker 2: Service reacted to it at the time, slowing down after

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Speaker 2: they thought there was a threat versus speeding up. I

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Speaker 2: mean there are people you guys went there obviously. My

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Speaker 2: parents used to live in Dallas. Oh, my dad took me,

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Speaker 2: and he was just all over the place loved this,

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Speaker 2: and he was talking about how there were so many

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Speaker 2: discrepancies and now there are all these people on that area,

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Speaker 2: in that area who will show you kind of what

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Speaker 2: you were saying, like trajectories of actually he was hit

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Speaker 2: by more than one bullet from more than one angle.

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Speaker 2: Then they slowed down to sort of let it happen,

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Speaker 2: and then they sped off. It was just wild and

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Speaker 2: then of course conveniently leave Harvey Oswald is killed before.

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Speaker 1: He got talk, which was which was so outrageous, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: you have the most wanted man right now in custody

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Speaker 1: and you're just like letting him walk around like that.

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Speaker 1: You just can't even believe this stuff is true. But see, but.

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Speaker 2: Like people are saying, Tyler Robinson could be.

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Speaker 1: It's yeah exactly. But even think about the jewel heist

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Speaker 1: that just happened, Jake, You're just like, this is still

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Speaker 1: happening that You're just like, how is this possible that that,

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty five, with such things that should be protected,

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Speaker 1: that somebody was able to just go get it right.

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Speaker 3: It didn't seem that sophisticated at the Louver, No, it

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Speaker 3: was just you know, it seemed very amateur hour, but

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Speaker 3: they were able to get all these priceless jewels. You know,

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Speaker 3: they immediately took all the jewels out and sold them off.

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Speaker 3: They're already gone. It's not the same as trying to

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Speaker 3: move artwork.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean a lot of people are saying

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Speaker 2: this hints at an inside job with the because it

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Speaker 2: was such a cake walking broad daylight. Yeah, so ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: There are other cases that we wanted to talk about too,

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Speaker 2: and one of them, well, actually, what did you guys

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Speaker 2: what cases have been on your minds lately?

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Speaker 3: But what have we been covering the most recently?

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Speaker 1: Well, we listen. We I don't know what happened last

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Speaker 1: week that Sylvia Brown the psychic has been making the

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Speaker 1: rounds on social media. Still alive, No, she's dead.

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Speaker 3: Well, she's an internet sensation as of last week. I

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Speaker 3: woke up one morning she had sent me twelve videos

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Speaker 3: of horrible things she was saying people, and then Etel

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Speaker 3: did a skin of her that weekend.

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Speaker 1: It was so weird. So I was like, oh, we

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Speaker 1: gotta we gotta dig into this because it's like you're

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Speaker 1: around my age, right, So it's like that just it

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Speaker 1: reminds me of you know, you get home from school

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Speaker 1: and it was on at that weird like three o'clock

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Speaker 1: hour that nobody's really home except moms or something, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like only certain people were seeing that,

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Speaker 1: and now you look at it and you're like, this

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Speaker 1: lady was so outrageous the stuff she was saying, like

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Speaker 1: the mental harm she was probably causing on people. Like

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Speaker 1: there was a woman that was saying that she was

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Speaker 1: having problems struggling with fertility, and she was like, well,

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Speaker 1: I ever have my own child and she's like no,

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Speaker 1: Well what about Like it's so messed up, and you're like,

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Speaker 1: that's terrible.

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Speaker 2: What if just what if she really is psychic and

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Speaker 2: she really did get that information was just passing it

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Speaker 2: on because she was very like blunt about a lot

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Speaker 2: of things, ridicular death those I sure didn't I think

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Speaker 2: that's right said.

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Speaker 3: And then she was gaslighting a woman whose husband died

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Speaker 3: in nine to eleven that he actually drowned and she's like, no,

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Speaker 3: he was a firefighter. At nine to eleven. She co going, no,

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Speaker 3: he drowned.

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Speaker 1: She's like, I keep seeing him in water. And then

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Speaker 1: she was like maybe it was the hose and I

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Speaker 1: was like, yeah, it's the first reported fire, you know,

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Speaker 1: drowning from a fire hose hose.

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Speaker 4: Oh lord.

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Speaker 1: But by the way, that the cause of death in

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Speaker 1: those cases was like a blunt trauma building collapse, not

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Speaker 1: like was there fires being put out? Really, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: there were, but like we all saw what happened, right, So.

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Speaker 3: And then we have the case. Do you know about

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Speaker 3: the fake pregnancy scandal that's taking over TikTok right now?

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Speaker 2: I don't, but Diamond is nodding her head, yes, So

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Speaker 2: please and for me.

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Speaker 3: This girl named Kia Cousins allegedly faked her well, not

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Speaker 3: even allegedly. There's a bunch of videos and stuff. She

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Speaker 3: faked a pregnancy by wearing a fake belly. She was

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Speaker 3: giving her family ultrasound pictures, videos of the baby kicking.

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Speaker 3: She even said the baby had a heart defect that

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Speaker 3: won doctor's appointment. So then all of a sudden, she

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Speaker 3: gets mad at the baby's father and decides he's not

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Speaker 3: going to be in the hospital room when she gives birth.

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Speaker 3: So I said, red flag right there, because even if

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Speaker 3: you really don't want your partner in there or whatever,

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Speaker 3: somebody's gonna come visit you at the hospital.

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Speaker 2: So she has this.

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Speaker 3: Baby allegedly, and then her it comes time for her

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Speaker 3: family to beat it and they're holding this child and

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Speaker 3: they're like, oh, the baby's cold, it's not moving, it's

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Speaker 3: not breathing.

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Speaker 4: It was a doll.

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Speaker 2: Oh God, thank god. I thought, okay, okay, So she

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Speaker 2: is clearly unwell mentally, yes, right, what where did this

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Speaker 2: come from? What did she think she was gonna be

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Speaker 2: able to pull off with all of this? Like, we

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Speaker 2: just does nobody know that you're pregnant? If your face,

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Speaker 2: I guess, if you're not that close and people aren't

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Speaker 2: touching you, what do I know?

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Speaker 1: To me?

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Speaker 4: Though?

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Speaker 3: I saw a video from her baby shower and you

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Speaker 3: can see the strap of the fake belly and saying,

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Speaker 3: why is nobody questioning this?

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Speaker 1: Because it's weird?

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Speaker 3: And then you like this is remember this.

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Speaker 1: Girl a couple months ago lake and Snelling. Her name

375
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Speaker 1: was she was a cheerleader at a university who gave

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Speaker 1: birth and put the baby in a closet, and the

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Speaker 1: baby was found dead in a bag in her closet.

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Speaker 1: So when when you go back and look at pictures

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Speaker 1: that she was posting on social media, any person in

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Speaker 1: the world she was a cheerleader. You could tell that

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Speaker 1: her body was cheerleader. It wasn't like, you know, my

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Speaker 1: she had a cheerleader body. And then all of a

383
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Speaker 1: sudden she she looked pregnant, like a pregnant person, and

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Speaker 1: no one around her said anything, but like, I'm pretty

385
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Speaker 1: sure everybody thought they thought it. It's just like there's

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Speaker 1: certain things you just don't say out left right right.

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Speaker 1: One of them is like, is that bump fake? One

388
00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,240
Speaker 1: of them is are you pregnant if you're just fat?

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Speaker 5: Right? Like?

390
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,639
Speaker 1: So I think that that's what it had to do with,

391
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Speaker 1: like people saw it, but they just.

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Speaker 3: It's the same with cancer fakers too, write cancer fakers. Yeah,

393
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Speaker 3: a lot of people do it, but it's one thing

394
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Speaker 3: you're never gonna doubt that somebody actually, would you know,

395
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Speaker 3: have an illness like that or go to the lengths

396
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:20,360
Speaker 3: and make something up, because if you did, you're really

397
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Speaker 3: horrible person. Then people don't want to accept that. So

398
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Speaker 3: I think it's kind of the same thing. One of

399
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,359
Speaker 3: her friends was saying she was a pathological liar and

400
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:32,520
Speaker 3: she suspected it was fake, but nobody wanted to say anything.

401
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:33,679
Speaker 3: They didn't want to be that person.

402
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Speaker 2: Did you guys. Ever watch the documentary. I'm looking up

403
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Speaker 2: exactly what the girl's name was.

404
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:48,960
Speaker 3: Mel Lanson.

405
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Speaker 2: No, oh yeah, Bel Gibson, Yes, yes, the worst influencer

406
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,280
Speaker 2: in the world. He told everyone she had brain cancer,

407
00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,720
Speaker 2: and it just floated through so many different and balances

408
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,040
Speaker 2: where it should have been stopped, including Apple. They gave

409
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,399
Speaker 2: her a whole app at the app store because she

410
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,480
Speaker 2: told everyone she ate her way and lived a healthy

411
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Speaker 2: lifestyle and somehow got out of brain cancer. And it

412
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Speaker 2: took one of her friends being like, I don't know, man,

413
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Speaker 2: where'd you go to the hospital? Like, which hospital did

414
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 2: you go to? Yes, who's your doctor? She's out here

415
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:24,719
Speaker 2: saying doctor Phil and that was it. And then they

416
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,120
Speaker 2: start asking specialists while you know, if she said it's

417
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:30,399
Speaker 2: in her spleen from her brain, and as you would know, Nicole, yeah, no,

418
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,639
Speaker 2: that's not really something that apparently happens. And if it

419
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,679
Speaker 2: has gotten that far in any way, whichever direction it

420
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:41,080
Speaker 2: was traveling, you would be riddled and nearly dead if

421
00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:42,800
Speaker 2: it got that far right, but it doesn't even happen

422
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Speaker 2: that way.

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Speaker 3: Well, I wonder if they have any confirmed people that

424
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,560
Speaker 3: have died after using her method, since she swore it

425
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 3: worked and cured her.

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Speaker 2: That's what I That was the whole thing that we

427
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 2: were talking about too, because how irresponsible, yes, for everyone

428
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 2: to just take somebody's word and go with it.

429
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Speaker 3: She was a pretty good businesswoman actually, but maybe she

430
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,359
Speaker 3: just you know, was inspired by a different idea, had

431
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 3: a different story behind her business. I think she still

432
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,680
Speaker 3: could have been very successful and some front, but instead

433
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,479
Speaker 3: she just went on this crazy path of lying her

434
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Speaker 3: whole life.

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Speaker 1: I actually know someone through someone who faked cancer, and

436
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:24,560
Speaker 1: that person, the middle person was messaging me and asking

437
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,440
Speaker 1: me questions because she started suspecting it. And then when

438
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 1: she was asking me, I was like, Yeah, that's not

439
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,679
Speaker 1: how that would go down. No, No, there's one thing.

440
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 3: If you're trying to, you know, be like I got

441
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 3: all these tests and they're thinking it's cancer. Right to

442
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 3: tell people that, but to actually commit to it, put

443
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 3: a fake porthole, do all this other stuff. It's horrible.

444
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,439
Speaker 2: I think it brings us back to a conversation that

445
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 2: we were sort of talking about off the air, which

446
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,439
Speaker 2: is something Diamond and I talked about in a podcast

447
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 2: not long ago. Mental health issues are very real, yeah,

448
00:22:58,040 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 2: and we need to pay attention to them. But that

449
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 2: absolve people from also being assholes. Yeah, these are two

450
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 2: separate things that can exist at the same time. Kanye

451
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 2: West can be very mentally ill and also were he

452
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 2: completely healthy, still be an asshole. Yeah, And some people

453
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 2: might argue that about Britney Spears or whomever.

454
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 3: You know.

455
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 2: It's an interesting take. And I think people are so

456
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 2: careful now about not wanting to offend anybody when it

457
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 2: comes to mental health, because you don't you don't want

458
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 2: to alienate people, and you don't want to create this

459
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 2: stigma around it. But we also can't just give everyone

460
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,120
Speaker 2: a pass because they claim that they have a mental

461
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 2: health issue. That's not fair.

462
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 1: No, And I think there's I mean, we talked about

463
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 1: a case on our episode is that coming out today

464
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 1: or yeah this week about a teenager who killed his

465
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:52,399
Speaker 1: mom's boyfriend, but not only killed this guy, cut his

466
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 1: head off, scooped his brains out, put it in a blender. Oh,

467
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 1: and then you think like, oh my god. And he

468
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,479
Speaker 1: was diagnosed with schizophrenia when he was a teenager, an

469
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:09,479
Speaker 1: early thirteen year old, and the mom had him on

470
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 1: treatment this whole time, and he was doing okay, but

471
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 1: then he turned eighteen and she had no control anymore.

472
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 1: She said that the doctor had changed his medications, and

473
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 1: then he hasn't been right since, and she is totally

474
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 1: out of control of his medical treatment. And then he

475
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 1: goes and does something like this. And we talk about

476
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: the case that just happened in August with the Irena

477
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: woman who was on the train, which almost had an

478
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 1: exact thing. That that guy had schizophrenia. His mom again

479
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 1: was involved and getting him treatment and trying, but like

480
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 1: ultimately these people grow up and become adults and then

481
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:58,200
Speaker 1: there's no one in charge. So in cases like that,

482
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 1: like this guy that I'm talking about that just happened

483
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: in New York, when he went to the hospital, he

484
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 1: thought he was in a fight with someone, like he

485
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 1: didn't even realize what happened. He was covered in this

486
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 1: guy's blood and like he's out of his mind right.

487
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 1: So that is like a severe mental illness. You see

488
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 1: it walking around the streets here, I'm sure, just like

489
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 1: people talking to themselves. And if you've ever seen these

490
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:25,120
Speaker 1: simulations of people who are having hallucinations, it's terrifying. It's

491
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 1: absolutely terrifying to think that you're seeing things and hearing

492
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: things when you're trying to like walk down the street

493
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: and just be in reality. So you could almost kind

494
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:38,120
Speaker 1: of I don't want to say justified.

495
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 5: But like.

496
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 1: They're not treated they're not treated well. But then like Brittany, but.

497
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 3: We kind of you know, the conversation we have when

498
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,160
Speaker 3: we were talking about Britney Spears is do you draw

499
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 3: the line at well personally? This where I draw my

500
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 3: line somebody that can function in society versus not. So

501
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 3: you could have somebody like a schizophrenic person in the

502
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,400
Speaker 3: story you were just saying that that person can drive,

503
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 3: they can't pay their bills, they can't cook for themselves,

504
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,159
Speaker 3: and they have a mental illness. But then you have

505
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 3: people with narcissism that are going to work every day

506
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 3: and functioning normally, but they have a personality disorder too.

507
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 3: So I think a large part of that is people

508
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 3: that are genuinely so out of their minds that they

509
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,439
Speaker 3: can't function day to day as a human And I

510
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,680
Speaker 3: think maybe that's where we should look at it. That's

511
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,199
Speaker 3: just my personal thoughts on it. But what do you

512
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 3: feel about it?

513
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 2: And which way? What do I feel about what?

514
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 3: Like, just like the lines with forgiving people because they

515
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 3: have an illness that can't be treated.

516
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 1: Everyone has everyone. Yeah, really if you do, you watch

517
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 1: videos of like you have a d D, you have autism?

518
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 1: Sure like everybody couldn't be given something so so that

519
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: and and then the personality disorders you have narcissistic? Uh

520
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: what about antisocial and stuff like that, like because they're

521
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 1: seen in people who are serial killers.

522
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like cool shooters.

523
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly.

524
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,199
Speaker 2: So I would personally, I would draw the line at

525
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 2: and it doesn't matter what my line is because I'm

526
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 2: not making any type of legislation, But I would say

527
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 2: my line is, are you a threat to me? Are

528
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 2: you a threat to other people? If you are just

529
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 2: a person who talks to yourself and walks down the

530
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 2: street and you don't want to take your meds, and

531
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 2: that's that, and maybe you won't function in society, but

532
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 2: you're also not gonna hurt anybody. That's one thing. If

533
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 2: you are a threat to me showing up at my

534
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 2: door in the middle of the night with a knife, yeah,

535
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 2: that's where I draw the line. You don't get to

536
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 2: just have a pass because maybe you're not well in

537
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 2: the head, because now your illness could affect me and

538
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 2: could affect people that I care about. That's my line.

539
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: I think that what about in more social situations? So

540
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: like Kanye and Britney spearits were not talking about like

541
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 1: them physically assaulting a person. It's more just social and

542
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: family relations. And I mean, if you sit there and

543
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 1: think about every dad that's ever been a deadbeat and

544
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,439
Speaker 1: a jerk and left his family, you could be like, Okay,

545
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: that guy's had some mental health is so that doesn't

546
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: excuse it.

547
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 2: I don't excuse either of them, honestly, and to be fair,

548
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 2: who am I to excuse anyone? Like I said, nobody

549
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 2: cares about my opinion. But I think it's going to

550
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 2: be well, thank you. I think this is going to

551
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,640
Speaker 2: be a very unpopular opinion. I think Brittany is more

552
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 2: dangerous than Kanye. I think that Kanye is clearly a

553
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 2: loose cannon and the man is popping off. We haven't

554
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 2: heard any reports of him being violent. Am I wrong?

555
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 2: Have we heard reports of him being violent?

556
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,199
Speaker 3: I agree with you one hundred percent on that.

557
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, he yells, he rants, he gives away Lamborghini's, and

558
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 2: he fucks up his business deals. Okay, Britney, there are reports,

559
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 2: whether they are substantiated or not, at this point, but

560
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 2: there are reports numerous that in fact, she has been

561
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 2: a little bit violent and has threatened violence, and that

562
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 2: to me is scarier than someone just yelling like a

563
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 2: lunatic on the subway.

564
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I agree that I do think she's more dangerous.

565
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 3: And I, oh, no, we need to get down this

566
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 3: capital again, especially you and I. But this is saying

567
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 3: on our show, just why you know. I can sit

568
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 3: there and say, Kevin Federline is every right to write

569
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 3: his own book and try to get money, and he

570
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 3: was married to her, and he should get the child's

571
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 3: wort because he is the father and he is raising

572
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 3: her kids and everything. But at the same time, she's

573
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 3: so mentally unwell that it comes across his exploitation in

574
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 3: a way. Because I'm seeing it as these kids grew

575
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,719
Speaker 3: up with this totally unstable mother in their life, and

576
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 3: why just add fuel to the fire. They know how

577
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 3: bad she is in the world knows how bad she is.

578
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 3: We don't need to know she did cocaine and breast

579
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 3: better kids. I think we could all assume she I

580
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 3: want to know.

581
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 1: Also, like Kevin Federline hasn't had the best reputation this

582
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 1: entire time, and like I was like, that dude seems

583
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what's going on behind the scenes,

584
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 1: but from the appearances, it seems that he's a decent dude.

585
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: Like he took his kids out of a situation that

586
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 1: that lady would be. Anybody if she lived in your neighborhood,

587
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,239
Speaker 1: you'd be like that bitch is whack, Like, don't let

588
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: your kids near her, right, Like, he took them far

589
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: away and like tried to raise them in a normal

590
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: as normal of a life as possible.

591
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:10,959
Speaker 2: We didn't see a lot or hear a lot from

592
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 2: them when.

593
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 1: They're kids, and they were just they were just trying

594
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: to be I mean, how can you possibly grow up

595
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 1: normal in that situation? So I think that he wanted

596
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: to be like, no, let me tell you what was

597
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: really going down this whole time.

598
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,719
Speaker 3: I just think when she talks badly about him, like

599
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 3: I see it as like I don't accept what she

600
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 3: says in some regard because of her condition. So I

601
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 3: think a lot of people are defending it as he's

602
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 3: coming out defending himself, and I understand that, and he

603
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 3: has a right to do that. I'm just saying I

604
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 3: don't really agree with the way in which he's going

605
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 3: about it.

606
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 2: Okay, I can understand that. I just I think in

607
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 2: all of this he has been pretty quiet, and he

608
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 2: did take those kids and go away and raise them

609
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 2: and was fairly quiet for a very long time. And

610
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 2: I think in a very interesting way, there are some

611
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 2: gender biases here, because if Brittany was the dad Kevin

612
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 2: was the mom, everyone would be applauding him and saying like, yes, girls,

613
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 2: speak your truth, like tell us what's going on, and

614
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 2: they would have I mean, Nicole to your point too.

615
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 2: If that was the dad that lived in the neighborhood,

616
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 2: everyone would be like, that guy should not have custody

617
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 2: of these kids. This dude is a loose cannon. But

618
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 2: I think because it's a very beloved pop star and

619
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 2: it's a woman versus a man, there are some differences

620
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 2: there that people are just sort of overlooking. Oh yeah,

621
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,479
Speaker 2: it's it's a wild thing that's happening in all this.

622
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 2: Everybody was so quick to say free Brittany, and then

623
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 2: when she was free, it was not who's taking care

624
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 2: of her? All the people who were yelling at they're

625
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 2: not there for her.

626
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I do, I mean, listen, like I'm compassionate.

627
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 1: I feel terrible for her. I feel like, yeah, they

628
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: I mean, if you think about when that Baby One

629
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: More Time video came out, she was sixteen, and they

630
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 1: were just like making her like school girl like effable, right,

631
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 1: Like that's what the vibe was.

632
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 2: Weird. It's so weird.

633
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: Like it's just weird, and and like she blew up

634
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: so much, and and then it's like she got pregnant

635
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: and had these kids and then like went back out

636
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: on stage and her body wasn't that like weirdly flat

637
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: belly I've never had in my whole life, by the way,

638
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: but but like that inverted like she looked like, okay,

639
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: she don't have organs. Yeah, yeah, she had that look before.

640
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: And then everybody she never got quite where she was

641
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: before that, And how do you like, it's a lot

642
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: for a young person to go through, and then on

643
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: top of that, you're dealing with possibly just like postpartum depression,

644
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: which people get, and the whole and then you're doing

645
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: drugs on top of it, which isn't how if you

646
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: are doing drugs, but I and everybody around her is

647
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 1: using her because of her commodity. It's it's terrible, but

648
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: she like, that's not these boys' fault.

649
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 2: No, it's not. The whole thing is. It's very sad.

650
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 2: It's a sad situation, all of it. And I, like

651
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 2: I said, I'm not an expert. My opinion doesn't really matter.

652
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 2: I just think it's very interesting to watch how all

653
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 2: of these things unfold, the differences that people kind of

654
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 2: assign to certain things.

655
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: And if you want to go back to Kanye for example,

656
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: like so let's say he's just like a normal dude

657
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: living with mental illness, he could have been like totally fine,

658
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: like as if he was like a commoner like us, Right, Yeah,

659
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: But like, I mean, he's got some points as far

660
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: as that family goes as far in my opinion, like

661
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 1: they don't live like normal people. They have this very

662
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: anti man thing going on over there that they don't

663
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: seem to really respect a man's role in life. I

664
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: personally feel that way.

665
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 2: I don't watch it, so I can't weigh in on that.

666
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 2: I don't know.

667
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 4: I don't.

668
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: I just think that there's it's a lot of like

669
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: we don't need you here kind of a vibe, and

670
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 1: I feel like it's just I don't know, they did

671
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: it to they did it to Chris Jenner like or

672
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: Caitlyn Jenner. I just got that vibe when I did

673
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: watch it when I was younger, that he was just

674
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: and they're along for the ride and they.

675
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 3: You're the sperm downer. We run the show.

676
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, And and like I think that the sexualization thing

677
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: and the kid, like that kid is my daughter's age exactly.

678
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 1: They were born within a couple months of each other

679
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: in Northwest. Okay, that kid has a phone. My daughter

680
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: doesn't have a phone. The kid's on TikTok doing videos.

681
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: It's just like like you're you're putting this kid out

682
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 1: there that's not ready to handle what's about to come

683
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,879
Speaker 1: with that. People call her fat, like she doesn't even

684
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 1: need that in her life. So and then they're divorced,

685
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: so he has no control over any of it. And

686
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 1: I and I do think that from multiple father's perspectives

687
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 1: that when they're watching their kid get raised from afar,

688
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 1: that that is, you know, a point of stress. All

689
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: I'm trying to say is like that is inducing his

690
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 1: his mental condition further, like those kinds of triggers, I

691
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 1: would say.

692
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 2: So, this is interesting that we're talking about this in

693
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 2: this episode right now, because last week on my podcast,

694
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 2: I had a guy named Nico balasteroson who did six

695
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 2: years with Kanye West, and all he did was film.

696
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,720
Speaker 2: He created this documentary from three thousand hours of footage.

697
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 2: He boiled it down to like an hour and forty

698
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 2: four minutes, and in it you see some very interesting things,

699
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 2: some really sad things. But I got almost the opposite

700
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 2: impression of Kim Kardashian and how she was treating Kanye

701
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 2: and Diamond. You do watch the show, right, Do you

702
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 2: have something to say about this and how they treat

703
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 2: men and how because I can't speak on it, but

704
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 2: I can't speak on his Nico Nico in a second,

705
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 2: So what are your thoughts.

706
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 5: My thoughts on Caitlyn Jenner at the time, I think

707
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 5: that he kind of gave up his I guess male

708
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 5: role in his relationship with Chris early on, Like she

709
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 5: was his manager and she was the reason why he

710
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,800
Speaker 5: was making money at that point because she was booking

711
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 5: him all of his like speaking engagements, which they said

712
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 5: was their main income as a family. And I think

713
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 5: he kind of like you could see that he was defeated.

714
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 5: He didn't really like she ran the show, but also

715
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,839
Speaker 5: like she was his boss technically too, So I feel

716
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 5: like that could have been the reason why.

717
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, and in that case, you know what I mean. Yeah,

718
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 1: And she was going through all the gender stuff, like

719
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 1: there was a lot of stuff going on too, Like

720
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,320
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just I don't. It just seems

721
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: like there's a lot of like you don't see like

722
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,879
Speaker 1: every one of them has kids. The dad's not around,

723
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like, it's just it's just

724
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:34,439
Speaker 1: something that I've taken note of and like, listen half

725
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: of couple's break up and this and that, so that's

726
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 1: what's going on. But it's just kind of it's just

727
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: interesting to me to look at.

728
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 2: It's definitely, I mean, I know people talk about it

729
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 2: all the time. They always say the Kardashians are man ruiners.

730
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, look at what they've done to these guys,

731
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,439
Speaker 2: And they do seem to not have the fathers around

732
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 2: in a lot of this. But in this documentary that

733
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 2: this guy Nico did, I saw a very different version

734
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 2: of Kim Kardashian than anything I expected. And and I'm

735
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 2: saying that again from not watching the show, kind of

736
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 2: only gleaning a little bits from pop culture. She was

737
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 2: very patient with him, and she was very loving toward him,

738
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 2: and when he would be freaking out and doing his

739
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 2: you know, very crazy little having his episodes in his spirals,

740
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 2: she would try her hardest to calm him down, to

741
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 2: try and talk to him sensibly, and to work with

742
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 2: him going through all of this, and it seemed like,

743
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 2: not seemed like what her final straw was when he

744
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 2: started going off and talking about how she wanted to

745
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 2: have an abortion with North, and that's when Kim was

746
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 2: finally like, you know what this is it, I'm not

747
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 2: going to take this abuse anymore from you verbally, I'm

748
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 2: not going to deal with this anymore. And I was

749
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 2: very surprised by that because it seemed to me I

750
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,320
Speaker 2: had the same impression as you about the whole family

751
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 2: and from not really watching. If you guys watched it more,

752
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 2: you would have a better grasp on it. But I

753
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:57,919
Speaker 2: think they are interesting. It's an interesting group of people

754
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,240
Speaker 2: over there, and it is maybe that they are man ruiners,

755
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 2: or maybe that they're just bad at choosing people to

756
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 2: be in their lives as father figures, because from what

757
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 2: we know about Chloe Diamond, correct me if I'm wrong,

758
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 2: she's a lover girl, and she's been cheated on by

759
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 2: like every single dude who came around. But that father

760
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:19,800
Speaker 2: is still in the picture. Even though he did her dirty,

761
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,800
Speaker 2: she still has him come over tuck them in, like

762
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,359
Speaker 2: they're very much raising those kids together.

763
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 3: So I don't know, I don't think they're man ruiners necessarily.

764
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 3: I think they have a very particular vision for their family,

765
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 3: and it's kind of like you're not fitting the mold.

766
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 3: So if you're not going to go along with the program,

767
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:37,399
Speaker 3: then you got to get the fuck out.

768
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 2: I aspire to be that way.

769
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 1: It could also be like men. Men sometimes can be

770
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: very intimidated by women that are more successful than them,

771
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 1: very much so. So I mean there's definitely I mean,

772
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: the Kanye West thing's interesting because he's not some rando

773
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 1: basketball player that nobody ever heard of, like he was

774
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 1: a really big deal very much So, I don't know,

775
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 1: and I do I think that his I mean, some

776
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 1: of his rants online are clear of some kind of

777
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: underlying psychological issue. I don't I mean, like there's something

778
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: going on there for sure, But I'm just thinking. I

779
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: just think that with all of with all, it's Brittany too,

780
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 1: it's any famous person like the I can't imagine. Like

781
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 1: I was using this as an example. We went to

782
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,399
Speaker 1: crime Con a couple of weeks ago, right, so it's

783
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 1: it's awesome, right, It's really awesome. But like when I'm

784
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 1: a regular person on the street walking around, like nobody

785
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 1: knows who I am. But then if I go to

786
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: crime Con, it's like every a lot of people there

787
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: know who I am, and I get stopped. Can we

788
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 1: take a picture? Can can you sign this?

789
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 5: Can you?

790
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 1: And I love it? It's great, right, But like I

791
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: was thinking, if I had that every single day of

792
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 1: my life when I left the house, it would be

793
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 1: a lot for your life.

794
00:39:58,040 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 2: Just you have to move.

795
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 1: You can't live where you live. You can't go to

796
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: the store, you can't just go to Wawah and get

797
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: a hookie, right, like right, So putting that pressure on

798
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 1: it because like I've like I got my own mental

799
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 1: stuff going on, and I'm just like putting pressure like

800
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 1: that on top of somebody that's already struggling is a

801
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: recipe for disaster, you know it is.

802
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,799
Speaker 2: I think it's a really interesting commentary on us as

803
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 2: a culture and how we consume things and what we

804
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 2: expect of the people we're consuming it from and sort

805
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:32,439
Speaker 2: of this parasocial relationship people build. I'm sure you guys

806
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 2: watched Monster the ed Geen story.

807
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 3: So we had covered that case a couple of years ago.

808
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 3: One was it when we covered cannibals?

809
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, we did it. We did a whole entire Thanksgiving.

810
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 3: I started the show, I saw it was taking a

811
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 3: lot of artistic liberties.

812
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:51,919
Speaker 4: So yeah, I kind of pulled it back.

813
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 3: But I really like the Monster series. I loved the

814
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:57,800
Speaker 3: Dahmer series. I really like the Menendas one. I just

815
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 3: think this one was going a little too far. This

816
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 3: story is already so incredibly disturbing. I don't think we

817
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 3: need to make it even worse.

818
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 1: Wait, so what do you mean artistic? Like they're just

819
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 1: making it more extra than it needs to be.

820
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 2: Or there were a lot of because I went down

821
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 2: the rabbit hole on this and looked up like what

822
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 2: was true and what was not, and there was just

823
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 2: a lot of creative license that they used to one

824
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 2: sort of assign him intention and motive behind what he

825
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 2: did when he wasn't very clear about why he did

826
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 2: what he did. There is controversy about whether or not

827
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 2: he ever did dress as a woman period, and if

828
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 2: that was part of what led him to this path,

829
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 2: his weird relationship with his mom. Yeah, and the entire

830
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 2: storyline with Adeline was inaccurate because there's a conflicting report

831
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 2: of whether or not they even had a relationship, because

832
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 2: she said initially yeah, we had an on and off

833
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 2: again relationship for twenty years, and then immediately came out

834
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 2: and said no, I made that up because she was

835
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 2: a bit off as well. So there's just a lot

836
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 2: of like filling in the blanks that I don't necessarily

837
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 2: think he Ryan Murphy or whoever the care was that

838
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 2: wrote all of this. It's not based in fact, where

839
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 2: I think a lot of the other stuff was more factual.

840
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 2: This seems more like half fantasy, half truth, and like

841
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 2: a fan fiction version of what happened.

842
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I understand that.

843
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 2: But the thing that was crazy to me about it

844
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 2: and what really made me take a step back, was

845
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 2: up until him, because I didn't realize he was the

846
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 2: inspiration behind Psycho and the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, the Hannibal Electer,

847
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 2: Buffalo Bill, there were a lot of things that he

848
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,760
Speaker 2: was the inspiration for, and until him, it was always

849
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:35,800
Speaker 2: ghosts and monsters and goblins. It was like Frankenstein and Dracula,

850
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 2: that's what people were afraid of. And then came along

851
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,280
Speaker 2: a human that was very terrifying, more terrifying than a monster,

852
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,839
Speaker 2: and people couldn't get enough of it. And look how

853
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 2: it changed just the version of culture that we take

854
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 2: in Now. Monsters are scary, but people are way scarier,

855
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 2: and we like kind of glorify it.

856
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 1: Well, this is so on point for right now. So

857
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,760
Speaker 1: we just wrote an article about the evolution of Halloween

858
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: and it was really interesting to see. Like, I mean,

859
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: when I was a kid, we had jack o' lantern's

860
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 1: and like a Frankenstein thing to hang up on the wall.

861
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:17,320
Speaker 1: And now people's displays outside are like full on re

862
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 1: enactments of murder scenes to the point where police are

863
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: showing up and thinking that someone was killed.

864
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 2: And we're just like ha ha yay, and I want

865
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:25,879
Speaker 2: candy too.

866
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 3: Yeah.

867
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 2: Very bizarre, right, so.

868
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 1: Weird, and it's like we're we're literally celebrating celebrating murder

869
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 1: one day a year. I mean, I went to the

870
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 1: you know, the big Halloween store with my kids and

871
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 1: there's a whole aisle of knives covered in blood and

872
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,800
Speaker 1: I'm just like, oh, I wonder how the Coburger's victims'

873
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 1: families feel about seeing this when they go to target

874
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:52,240
Speaker 1: or something, and it's like, oh, it's okay, this is okay,

875
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 1: just one day a year. The rest of the day,

876
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 1: we were just at that oddities thing. I saw a

877
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,479
Speaker 1: little kid just as Michael Mike well Myer's holding a knife.

878
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 1: Had to be four five.

879
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:04,760
Speaker 2: See, that's the stuff. II have nightmares.

880
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 1: But like if you saw a child walking around with

881
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:11,479
Speaker 1: a fake knife, it's and why are fake knives? Okay?

882
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: Fake on's totally taboo, but like fake knives totally cool.

883
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:17,879
Speaker 1: Like it's it's getting weird.

884
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 3: Getting weird out there, right, It's very weird because Halloween

885
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 3: started as this festival in Ireland to celebrate the end

886
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 3: of the harvest season going into winter, and they thought

887
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 3: there was this you know, dulled barrier between the other

888
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 3: world and they would dance around a fire pit to

889
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 3: try to scare off spirits. And then obviously with the

890
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 3: Irish potato fam and they had a mass migration over

891
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:45,359
Speaker 3: here into Canada and everything, and Halloween started coming over here.

892
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 3: And then they kind of pinpointed around the seventies when

893
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,840
Speaker 3: the movie Halloween came out that's when our culture started

894
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 3: shifting into this ultra obsession with just gory things, scary

895
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 3: things and.

896
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 2: Killing women who are slunning.

897
00:44:58,360 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 1: Yes, it was.

898
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,240
Speaker 3: It's just that's how it just, you know, for hundreds

899
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 3: of years, was one thing and just very quickly shifted

900
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 3: into another.

901
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 2: I think, kind of on the same topic. I was

902
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 2: just in Salem, Massachusetts, and I lived in Boston for

903
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 2: a while, so I've been there a few times, and

904
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 2: it's really bizarre how people flock to this area where

905
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 2: they killed witches. They didn't kill witches. They killed women

906
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 2: who were just accused of being maybe smart or having

907
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 2: a little too much SaaS. They just killed them. And

908
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 2: now once a year people come down to Salem or up,

909
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 2: I should say, from here up to Salem and mass

910
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 2: to go and see where these women died in these

911
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:39,320
Speaker 2: ridiculously brutal ways for no reason. And it's not a

912
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,839
Speaker 2: weird thing to people. It's just like, oh, yeah, take

913
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 2: me on that tour. I want to see where each

914
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:45,240
Speaker 2: one of them died. Bizarro.

915
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, and horrific. That's where most of them sat on fire,

916
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 3: crushed by stones. Yes, horrific.

917
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 1: It is just like what's happening is weird. The costumes

918
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:59,240
Speaker 1: are weird, like little kids dressed up as Jeffrey Dahmer.

919
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:03,360
Speaker 3: Like, I think we've transitioned into this period where people

920
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 3: think it's cool to die.

921
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 4: Not me, I'm talking a lot. I think you're right, though.

922
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 2: I do think there's a lot of weird glorification of

923
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,879
Speaker 2: things now that wasn't necessarily there before. And how did

924
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 2: we get here as a society?

925
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 3: Where did this?

926
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 2: Where do you guys think it came from?

927
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: You should see. I gotta show you pictures of some

928
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 1: of these Halloween displays. This one person has a wood

929
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 1: chipper on their lawn with like a leg sticking out

930
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 1: of it and blood squirting out of it. Actively sane

931
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 1: people smeared across, like a guy looking like he was

932
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 1: climbing up a ladder, fell like smeared all over. There's

933
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 1: a there's one with a man that's smashed up against

934
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 1: a tree with an actual car that's dented up against it.

935
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:55,399
Speaker 4: See.

936
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 2: I feel like when I was little, the most wild

937
00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 2: thing I would see would be the witch that looked

938
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:00,879
Speaker 2: like she smashed into the side of the house. Yes,

939
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 2: like that was it and that was funny, ha ha,

940
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 2: and that was it. You just kind of let it go.

941
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 2: But now it's like yes, and then the displays like

942
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 2: the things people are eating at the Halloween parties, it's

943
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 2: like a brain and the salami is the guts of

944
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 2: the stomach, you know, whatever else it's It is very strange.

945
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 2: I wonder if other countries look at us and they're

946
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:16,879
Speaker 2: like these crackheads.

947
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:20,320
Speaker 1: No, they do because because like my members on the website,

948
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 1: they write comments and they're just like, yeah, that it's

949
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 1: not like that over here, Like no, it's it's just

950
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 1: really it's just really interesting to watch and and just

951
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 1: the think it's just okay, just this one time.

952
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 3: I just think people can't. Going back to what you

953
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 3: were saying about ed Yan too, it's just people can't

954
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 3: wrap their head around people doing these things, and that

955
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 3: that's where the natural fascination comes. And then now with

956
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 3: social media, when we could get every single detail possible

957
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:55,279
Speaker 3: about every single crime that occurs, it just has made

958
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:57,359
Speaker 3: it so much worse. I mean, we go to crime

959
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,719
Speaker 3: con which is a true crime convention where they have

960
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 3: up to eight thousand people going to hear about crimes

961
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:04,360
Speaker 3: and it's insane.

962
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 4: But it's all women too.

963
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 1: But crime comes very because there is a fine line

964
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: of exploitation versus taste, you know, and it's very tasteful.

965
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 1: It's very, very very because all of the speakers are

966
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 1: people like either myself that do this as a profession,

967
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 1: but just other professions forensic toxicologists, forensic investigators. I recently

968
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 1: met the guy one of the men who were involved

969
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 1: with the Boston marathon bombing and the investigation with that,

970
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 1: which I'm hoping to get on the show. But like

971
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: people are, they're police and investigators and just coming out

972
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 1: and talking about how they caught these people, like from

973
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 1: a scientific perspective. And then you have the whole subset

974
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:01,840
Speaker 1: of people too that are victims, family that speak about

975
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 1: their side of it, and lots of missing people. I mean,

976
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 1: people were coming up to me just their daughter's been

977
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 1: missing for twenty years and geat, like.

978
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 2: That has to get very heavy.

979
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 1: It just it's not it's it is they have a wall.

980
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 1: That's one of the most horrible things for me to think,

981
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 1: because death is final and missing is not final.

982
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 2: Right, You're just sitting with a pit this mother, Like

983
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 2: I looked at.

984
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 1: This mother in her eyes and there was like something

985
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: missing in her you know. Of course, it just broke

986
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:34,840
Speaker 1: my heart, Like I just I just can't wrap my

987
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 1: head around.

988
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 3: That they had this wall there where you can put

989
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:40,359
Speaker 3: up information about a missing loved one, and last year

990
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 3: they actually found I think two or three people oh

991
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:44,839
Speaker 3: wow for me on the wall.

992
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:45,919
Speaker 4: So that's nice.

993
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 3: It's been an incredible resource to have and it really

994
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:51,319
Speaker 3: does help families. I think that's why we love going

995
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 3: there so much, because you know there is the fine line,

996
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:56,799
Speaker 3: but when you're there, you never feel like anybody's being

997
00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 3: disrespectful or exploiting it. Everybody is there to try to

998
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:02,400
Speaker 3: help or because they're curious.

999
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 2: So is most of crime calm centered around murder and

1000
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:09,319
Speaker 2: death or are there like jewelry heists and that kind

1001
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 2: of crime involved too.

1002
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 3: They do other crimes. They have a lot of like

1003
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 3: cult activity. They had a firearms expert going over that

1004
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 3: Alex Baldwin shooting. That was interesting.

1005
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 1: And then also what's up with that talk about that

1006
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 1: that this is like celebrities just living the most. He

1007
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 1: could have killed another person accidentally.

1008
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:38,800
Speaker 3: Like Hillary's on my top ten most annoying people that

1009
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 3: I ever see about.

1010
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 1: In the first Hilary of Baldwin, I will not call

1011
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 1: Hilary okay, I think It's crazy that that no one,

1012
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 1: really nobody is seeing like she's still allowed to pull

1013
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:53,399
Speaker 1: off that act.

1014
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 4: Like I mean, I I'm not sure she is.

1015
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 2: Because she got voted off Dancing with the Stars real quick.

1016
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,800
Speaker 3: People were like not taking it as a personal attack.

1017
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 3: I saw that she is being extra annoying about it.

1018
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 3: I did see that.

1019
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, the and I'm forty one, Like, what does I

1020
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 2: have to do with anythink you're a fraud? That's why

1021
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:11,400
Speaker 2: nobody wants to watch.

1022
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 1: But we had a question like do you think da

1023
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:17,719
Speaker 1: she played that role to him? And he actually thought

1024
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 1: like believed her. And now he's like seven kids.

1025
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:24,880
Speaker 2: In This is a tough one. I don't know because

1026
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 2: I have very limited interaction with either of them. I

1027
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 2: did one panel discussion with him one time, and it

1028
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 2: was a wild time. It was the day after uh

1029
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 2: Trump won the election for the second time, and you

1030
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:42,880
Speaker 2: know that Alec Baldwin very much goes in the other

1031
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 2: direction from that. Yeah, so he looked like he had

1032
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 2: been up for one hundred and seventy two hours. Oh,

1033
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:52,279
Speaker 2: he was very tired and he was enraged. I don't

1034
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:55,719
Speaker 2: think I got the best example. Yeah, I would say

1035
00:51:55,760 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 2: that is, but the example I did get one hundred

1036
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:04,359
Speaker 2: percent shore that he lives in reality, So I don't

1037
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 2: know that he ever cared to like investigate. He was

1038
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:08,920
Speaker 2: probably just like, this is a character, and I like

1039
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:13,360
Speaker 2: this character. Yes, yeah, I don't know. There's it was wild.

1040
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 3: The comedian Heather McDonald always says on her show she

1041
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 3: has a really good point that at the time they met,

1042
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 3: thirty rock was going on and he had been with

1043
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 3: Selma Hayek and the show, and he had expressed interest

1044
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 3: publicly in Spanish women.

1045
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 4: So she she thinks I'll be that.

1046
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 3: Yes, she thinks she was influenced by the character on

1047
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:33,359
Speaker 3: the show and just kind of came up to him

1048
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 3: and played it off, and he's exactly like, I don't

1049
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:37,880
Speaker 3: give a shit, you're hot. We could get married. I

1050
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 3: don't care where you went to high school, and.

1051
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 5: Here we are.

1052
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't, I don't know, but we've It's funny

1053
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 2: that this is at least the second time Hilaria Baldwin

1054
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:51,360
Speaker 2: Hillary as you call her uh has been addressed on

1055
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 2: this show, because we had Crystal Mine Crystal Kong Minkoff

1056
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 2: and and she was just dying about how Hilaria and

1057
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:02,880
Speaker 2: the Cucumber video is one of her favorite things of

1058
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 2: all time. Yeah, it's so good, And I think this

1059
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:07,880
Speaker 2: is something that like women really only care about and

1060
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:09,320
Speaker 2: know about. Oh yeah, I don't know a ton of

1061
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 2: guys who if you said who she is, would know

1062
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:13,439
Speaker 2: or know any of this background about her. But women

1063
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:15,800
Speaker 2: are fascinated by it. It's kind of hilarious.

1064
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 1: Because you think about think about doing that in real life.

1065
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 2: I think about all the time.

1066
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:22,920
Speaker 1: It's so outrageous, right, you know, I was just thinking

1067
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 1: I loved what was that movie? Alcohol one was in

1068
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 1: that we used to watch a bunch, the one, the

1069
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:31,400
Speaker 1: one with U who was in it, like Meryl Street?

1070
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 3: Oh, Nancy Myers. What is it called? The one where

1071
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 3: that you know, where they're divorced.

1072
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 4: It just came out.

1073
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:41,279
Speaker 1: Oh it's complicated.

1074
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 2: Y oh, okay, that's a great movie.

1075
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 1: So, like social media is ruined or just the way

1076
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:51,840
Speaker 1: things are right now are ruining things for actors and

1077
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 1: actresses because I just don't really care to know about

1078
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 1: your crazy ass life and your and you're weird shit.

1079
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 1: Like if this was back and then in like the

1080
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties or something with like you know, do you.

1081
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:08,320
Speaker 3: Think people knew all about Carrie Grant's innerword.

1082
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 1: But there's like a little mystery and you just watch

1083
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:14,440
Speaker 1: them and you love them on the screen and that's it.

1084
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:17,800
Speaker 1: And now it's like I get turned off by certain

1085
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 1: people because I'm like, ew, I don't really want to

1086
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 1: know you like that, Like, now we.

1087
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 2: Have to make decisions we didn't have to make. I mean,

1088
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:26,879
Speaker 2: none of us were alive back then. But I don't

1089
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 2: think they had to make the decision to separate the

1090
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:31,280
Speaker 2: art from the artists, because an artist was just an artist,

1091
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:35,800
Speaker 2: whereas now you were like, or I should say, the

1092
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:39,160
Speaker 2: art was just the art. Now you have a really

1093
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 2: great singer and then you find out that like maybe

1094
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:44,879
Speaker 2: they killed chickens in their closet for fun, and you're like, well, damn,

1095
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:46,840
Speaker 2: but I really liked that song. Now can I not

1096
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 2: like that song?

1097
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:47,759
Speaker 3: You know?

1098
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 2: We see that with Diddy, with R Kelly, with a

1099
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:52,399
Speaker 2: lot of these people right now that it's like, well,

1100
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 2: I do sometimes wish we didn't have as much information. However, Guiltily,

1101
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 2: when I hear some things, I'm like, give me more

1102
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 2: of that. That's crazy.

1103
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 4: But yeah, like.

1104
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:08,840
Speaker 1: Like Michael Jackson, that's a good example actually, because I

1105
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:10,360
Speaker 1: feel like when I was a kid. I was like

1106
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:13,799
Speaker 1: obsessed with Michael Jackson from the time, like I had

1107
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 1: Thriller on a Fisher Price like record player. Nice, right, Okay,

1108
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 1: And then these accusations came out and then they were

1109
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:22,279
Speaker 1: out and they kind of went away, and you're just

1110
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 1: kind of like, yeah, it's probably not true. They just

1111
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 1: want him for money. But then it's like, so then

1112
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:28,800
Speaker 1: I liked him, and then it's like you watch The

1113
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 1: Neverland that what was it called finding? And then I

1114
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,319
Speaker 1: was like, whoa, this is this really? Is this true?

1115
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:37,279
Speaker 1: Is this what was happening? And just even some of

1116
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 1: the stuff that's definitely true about the him sending the

1117
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 1: faxes to the kid and stuff like even if he

1118
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:46,480
Speaker 1: didn't do anything, I just think that that is really

1119
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 1: bizarre behavior for a grown like a grown man.

1120
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:52,040
Speaker 2: I mean we saw the things we saw him do.

1121
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:54,239
Speaker 2: We're bizarre behavior for a grown man. Doug getting a

1122
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 2: baby over the balcony, being super besties with like that

1123
00:55:57,080 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 2: little chimpanzee that you have the voice and general the

1124
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:02,200
Speaker 2: way he has to speak. There was a lot that

1125
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:04,759
Speaker 2: was clearly I mean red flag after red flag, but

1126
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 2: people just wanted the art, yeah, and they didn't want

1127
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:08,800
Speaker 2: to think about who the artist behind it was and

1128
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 2: what they were doing. And by the way, I realized

1129
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 2: we were really talking a little inside baseball with Hilaria

1130
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 2: Baldwin or as you call her Hillary for people who

1131
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 2: don't know. She is married to Alec Baldwin. She is

1132
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 2: significantly younger than him. They got together and immediately just

1133
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 2: started popping out, kid after kid after kid. They are

1134
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:26,359
Speaker 2: up to seven is it seven?

1135
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:26,560
Speaker 3: Now?

1136
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:29,320
Speaker 2: They're up to seven? He had kids before, so I

1137
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 2: think he's like the father of ten or something like that.

1138
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 2: And she always spoke with this accent, like a tiny

1139
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 2: bit of a Spanish accent. And there are videos of

1140
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:42,359
Speaker 2: her doing, you know, a cooking demonstration where she's talking

1141
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:44,359
Speaker 2: about a cucumber and she's like, in how you say

1142
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:47,719
Speaker 2: in English cucumber, and then it comes out there. She

1143
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:50,800
Speaker 2: was born and raised in Boston, so everybody was like,

1144
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:52,400
Speaker 2: the fuck, what is this.

1145
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 3: I'm not calling her Hilario because it's not her name.

1146
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 3: Her legal name is Hillary.

1147
00:56:56,880 --> 00:57:01,600
Speaker 1: Didn't they name one of their kids Hilaria, yess whatever.

1148
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 3: One of the kid's name is Ilaria.

1149
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:06,400
Speaker 2: Diamond is over here chuckling.

1150
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:10,279
Speaker 1: It's so pathological, right.

1151
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:13,319
Speaker 3: The funny thing, though, is that Alec Baldwin's other daughter

1152
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 3: from with Kim Besinger Ireland Baldwin. I think she's the

1153
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 3: most wonderful stepmother in the world.

1154
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:22,880
Speaker 2: And you know what, maybe she is. Maybe because we

1155
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:26,240
Speaker 2: only get little pieces, maybe we're all wrong and she's

1156
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 2: just this goofy, quirky person who got a little too far.

1157
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 2: But in reality she's just the nicest, you know, most

1158
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 2: down to earth, misunderstood person.

1159
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1160
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:37,800
Speaker 3: Did you ever hear the voicemail he left Ireland by.

1161
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 2: The way, Oh yeah, you've rude, vile, a little pig.

1162
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 3: Yeah she was, I think she was. Have you ever

1163
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 3: heard this?

1164
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 2: She was like twelve?

1165
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 3: Imagine are you believing Lillian that voy.

1166
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 4: No, I really can't listen.

1167
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 2: I had immigrant parents, liked perc like like they would

1168
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,520
Speaker 2: do that to me now for sure. One of the

1169
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 2: other things that we were talking about, which I'm fascinated by,

1170
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:01,960
Speaker 2: and Nicole you said you think that it's gonna be

1171
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 2: maybe an unpopular or viewpoint that you have on it,

1172
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:08,240
Speaker 2: is the case of Ellen Greenberg. And you guys are

1173
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 2: from Pennsylvania. This happened in Pennsylvania. Before we get into it,

1174
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 2: describe what happened here, like what the case is about.

1175
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 3: So in twenty eleven, it was Saint Maria. By the way,

1176
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 3: Oh okay, I feel like I know more of this,

1177
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:25,160
Speaker 3: or when we do the podcast, I usually do the details.

1178
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:29,120
Speaker 1: Then she goes yeah, and I'm like, this is Maria's Yes,

1179
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:30,240
Speaker 1: She's like, what year was that?

1180
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:33,680
Speaker 3: Where did it happen? Okay? So twenty eleven, it was

1181
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 3: a snow day, everybody sent home from work and this woman,

1182
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:40,120
Speaker 3: Ellen Greenberg, she was a school teacher. She goes home,

1183
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 3: she's in her house with her in her apartment with

1184
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 3: her fiance, and the fiance goes, I'm going to the

1185
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 3: gym in the building. He comes back a little bit later.

1186
00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 3: The door is locked, he can't get in. He kicks

1187
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:53,560
Speaker 3: it down. He finds her with all these stab wounds

1188
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:57,200
Speaker 3: and a knife sticking out of her chest. So I

1189
00:58:57,240 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 3: guess for the controversy. She comes in as she was

1190
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 3: brought to the Medical exam office, and they originally declared

1191
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 3: her death a homicide, but then a couple of weeks

1192
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:08,440
Speaker 3: later switched it to a suicide, which is extremely unusual.

1193
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 3: And then recent reports have come out that or they

1194
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 3: recently reevaluated the case and have decided it's still a suicide,

1195
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 3: but her parents have been in court trying to get

1196
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:22,120
Speaker 3: her manner of death switched to undetermined at the very

1197
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:25,680
Speaker 3: least or back to homicide. Four years. They are fighting

1198
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 3: for justice for her because the investigation was so botched

1199
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:31,920
Speaker 3: and they just really don't know what happened. But you

1200
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:32,960
Speaker 3: could speak more to that.

1201
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 2: Well, can I ask one question about this sure? Because

1202
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 2: she wasn't just it wasn't just like twenty some stab

1203
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 2: wounds to the front of her body. It was stab

1204
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 2: wounds to the back of her body, her head, her neck,

1205
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 2: like all over places where if you somehow were able

1206
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:50,160
Speaker 2: to do that to yourself, there was probably like a

1207
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:52,720
Speaker 2: psychotic break or something else happening. Yeah, but they didn't

1208
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:55,320
Speaker 2: necessarily have a ton of information to support that something

1209
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:56,520
Speaker 2: like that would have happened, right.

1210
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:00,560
Speaker 1: Well, it I didn't see the docum memory, so I

1211
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:03,040
Speaker 1: can't say, okay, and I really should watch it because

1212
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 1: I want to see, because I think that there there's

1213
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 1: possibly a little bit of a spin on it, because

1214
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:11,480
Speaker 1: you know, whenever you make it, Yeah, when you when

1215
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:13,560
Speaker 1: when you want something to be your way, you're going

1216
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:18,280
Speaker 1: to do that. And I agree the whole situation is

1217
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 1: weird for murder. I would say women women killing them

1218
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:27,920
Speaker 1: themselves is less anyway, just suicides are less in females anyway.

1219
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:31,680
Speaker 1: But then to stab yourself to death, it's there's not

1220
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:36,640
Speaker 1: many reported cases of it. Although side note, I was

1221
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 1: just talking to people that I know that work in

1222
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 1: another office that said they've been seeing an increasing number

1223
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 1: of suicides that are weird and lots of people who

1224
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:50,000
Speaker 1: are stabbing themselves to death. So it's not un it's

1225
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 1: not impossible, it's just very uncommon. And so especially for

1226
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 1: a woman to do something like that statistically is just

1227
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:02,560
Speaker 1: not very common.

1228
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 2: So this is your your take, based solely on data,

1229
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 2: solely on data.

1230
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:11,040
Speaker 1: Then I personally don't by all accounts, she had a

1231
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:14,040
Speaker 1: good relationship with this guy. There was no history of

1232
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:16,880
Speaker 1: anything abnormal. But like, I don't really think that she

1233
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:20,919
Speaker 1: had a great relationship with him, because she had called

1234
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:25,040
Speaker 1: her parents prior to this happening saying that she wanted

1235
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:28,240
Speaker 1: to move home because she was stressed out or something

1236
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 1: with her teaching job. And I find that very bizarre

1237
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 1: when you're when you have a living boyfriend and you're

1238
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:37,920
Speaker 1: in a good relationship. They were engaged, like setting out

1239
01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:42,240
Speaker 1: wedding invitations like almost there. I find that to be

1240
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 1: a little bit of weird behavior that you would want

1241
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 1: to go home with your parents. I think the only

1242
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 1: thing that would make you want to go home with

1243
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:51,320
Speaker 1: your parent house wasn't good in your current That's my

1244
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I could speak from really like why boyfriends

1245
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 1: and lived? Why else would you want to leave because

1246
01:01:57,240 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 1: you were having a hard time with something else? It's

1247
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:04,320
Speaker 1: she was almost thirty, It's it's a little unusual.

1248
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:06,360
Speaker 2: There are so many questions about this, and I think

1249
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 2: for me, the biggest question in all of it was

1250
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 2: he did have to kick down the door, not just

1251
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 2: because it was locked, but the dead bolt inside, like

1252
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 2: the chain was on from the inside as well. So

1253
01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:20,959
Speaker 2: how do people explain that? Like what happened here? Again,

1254
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:23,640
Speaker 2: maybe we'll never know what. I'm interested in your takes.

1255
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:27,440
Speaker 3: There's just theories floating around that that building in particular

1256
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 3: had a problem with that if you slammed the door

1257
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 3: too hard, it would kind of just go. So I

1258
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:36,320
Speaker 3: heard that recently. I mean we watched YouTube videos where

1259
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 3: like you can very easily kind of get in through

1260
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:39,919
Speaker 3: those things.

1261
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:43,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like and like, so you know, my husband's

1262
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:46,640
Speaker 1: a firefighter and he breaks into houses sometimes because he

1263
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 1: has to for a fire. And I showed it to

1264
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:51,840
Speaker 1: him and he was just like that it doesn't to him,

1265
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:55,520
Speaker 1: it didn't look like he thought that if the door

1266
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 1: was busted open, that that that chain would have been

1267
01:02:58,080 --> 01:03:00,840
Speaker 1: ripped off that wall, that it wouldn't have been like

1268
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:03,320
Speaker 1: pulled out a little bit, you know what I mean.

1269
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:07,080
Speaker 1: So that he's just like, that's not it wouldn't look

1270
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:07,320
Speaker 1: like that.

1271
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:09,480
Speaker 2: So, I mean, he sees a discrepancy on even the

1272
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:10,840
Speaker 2: reporting that the chain was.

1273
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:14,760
Speaker 1: Actually no, there's pictures of it, but the chain is

1274
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 1: only partially pulled out of the wood. It's not like

1275
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:20,760
Speaker 1: ripped like you would think if you actually had the

1276
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:22,920
Speaker 1: bust open the door, the thing would rip out, you

1277
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:24,600
Speaker 1: know what I mean, out of the wood because it's

1278
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:29,920
Speaker 1: going across. It just wouldn't be like slightly. It's almost

1279
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:31,960
Speaker 1: something you could do if you had the chain locked

1280
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:34,240
Speaker 1: and you pushed the door a bunch of times and

1281
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:37,800
Speaker 1: it didn't it like messed the wood up, but didn't

1282
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:39,320
Speaker 1: fully pull it off of the wood.

1283
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 2: So then, in your best opinion, with the information that

1284
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 2: you guys have, what do you think happened?

1285
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:48,520
Speaker 1: I go back and forth because there's other strong things

1286
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:50,880
Speaker 1: like did you hear the nine one one call? Did

1287
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 1: they play that in the documentary?

1288
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:55,240
Speaker 2: I was only kind of half watching. It was weird, okay,

1289
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:58,520
Speaker 2: Like he he went and most likely said she stabbed

1290
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:00,280
Speaker 2: herself or she fell on a knife or thing.

1291
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:02,880
Speaker 1: It fell on her knife, he said, which was weird.

1292
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:06,160
Speaker 1: But he's also like looking around, I don't know what's wrong.

1293
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:09,840
Speaker 1: And then oh, she stabbed herself. There's a knife in

1294
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:12,600
Speaker 1: her chest. And I'm just kind of like you think

1295
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 1: about let's say you walked in here, for example, and

1296
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:18,040
Speaker 1: Elvis was on the Well, use Elvis as an example.

1297
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 1: He's on the floor, dead and bloody, okay, and there's

1298
01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:23,520
Speaker 1: a knife in his chest. Are you gonna be like

1299
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:26,080
Speaker 1: he stabbed himself. No, you're gonna be like, holy shit,

1300
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:27,200
Speaker 1: somebody just killed him.

1301
01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:28,960
Speaker 2: I would immediately look at Timon and be like, how

1302
01:04:29,080 --> 01:04:29,280
Speaker 2: are you.

1303
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:30,280
Speaker 4: Yes.

1304
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:34,480
Speaker 3: My theory is that a lot of the coverage of

1305
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 3: this case is very biased, and they don't talk a

1306
01:04:37,120 --> 01:04:39,920
Speaker 3: lot about her mental health history. She was on and

1307
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:41,800
Speaker 3: off a lot of psychiatric medicine.

1308
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:43,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what That's what I was asking earlier.

1309
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:47,920
Speaker 3: And I'm wondering if subconsciously he said that because she

1310
01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:50,600
Speaker 3: had made suicidal threats in the past, so that's automatically

1311
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:51,280
Speaker 3: where his mind went to.

1312
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:55,240
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that, No, that's that's in the differential, Marius.

1313
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not saying that makes him innocent. But at

1314
01:04:57,600 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 3: the same time, it's important to note this guy has

1315
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:03,160
Speaker 3: never been arrested or even considered a suspect in this crime.

1316
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:07,360
Speaker 1: So let's talk about her psychistory a little. So when

1317
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 1: she made that call to her parents, her dad was like,

1318
01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:14,000
Speaker 1: you can come home, but I want you to see

1319
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:18,520
Speaker 1: a psychiatrist first, And she went to a psychiatrist three

1320
01:05:18,680 --> 01:05:22,880
Speaker 1: times in one week. I'm sorry, but like, that's weird

1321
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:27,560
Speaker 1: to me. When do you ever unless you're having a crisis, right, So.

1322
01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:30,000
Speaker 2: Maybe she wasn't. Maybe that was also the kind of

1323
01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:33,000
Speaker 2: catalyst I want to move home exactly.

1324
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:37,160
Speaker 1: She was first put on Zoloft, which is known to

1325
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:40,760
Speaker 1: take a couple of weeks to kick in. Within three days,

1326
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:44,880
Speaker 1: her anxiety was so bad that in the sleep, not

1327
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:47,760
Speaker 1: sleeping and stuff, that they gave her a Xanax. Then

1328
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:50,320
Speaker 1: they gave her ambient. This all happened in the course

1329
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 1: of two weeks. She was on Zoloft, xanax ambient like

1330
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:59,040
Speaker 1: it could have just been a dangerous combination of drugs.

1331
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:04,200
Speaker 1: You know, you put someone on zoloft, like they tell

1332
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:06,360
Speaker 1: you to wean on those drugs, and wean off those

1333
01:06:06,440 --> 01:06:09,240
Speaker 1: drugs for a reason because it messes with the chemicals

1334
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:14,520
Speaker 1: in your brain. So there's a potential. Like I don't know,

1335
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:17,400
Speaker 1: because I did. I have asked this question several times.

1336
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:18,040
Speaker 4: Have they done.

1337
01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:22,080
Speaker 1: Have they consulted any psychiatrists to see if this particular

1338
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:24,920
Speaker 1: combination of drug can lead to an acute psychotic event?

1339
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:29,120
Speaker 1: Like because she was sitting there at the kitchen cutting

1340
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:31,040
Speaker 1: fruit and then all of a sudden, if it is

1341
01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:34,720
Speaker 1: true that she killed herself, something snapped and she just

1342
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:39,000
Speaker 1: started stabbing herself. There there were no accounts that well,

1343
01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:41,800
Speaker 1: I don't want to say no, but that particular day

1344
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:43,960
Speaker 1: when she left school during the snowstorm, she filled her

1345
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 1: tank of gas. Like, if you know you're going home

1346
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:47,919
Speaker 1: to kill yourself, why would you get a full tank

1347
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:50,240
Speaker 1: of gas? Certain things like that, Why would you be

1348
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:54,120
Speaker 1: cutting fruit, like you're making yourself a salad for a

1349
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:54,800
Speaker 1: fruit salad?

1350
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:55,000
Speaker 5: Right?

1351
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:58,840
Speaker 1: But then, I mean, I don't know. I just think

1352
01:06:58,920 --> 01:07:01,800
Speaker 1: that they looked at her history and they found these

1353
01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:06,720
Speaker 1: searches on her computer. But talk about the the botch

1354
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:09,000
Speaker 1: part of the police investigation, which is there was there

1355
01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:12,440
Speaker 1: was a loss of So whenever you're doing a crime investigation,

1356
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:17,880
Speaker 1: you have what's called like there's a chain of custody,

1357
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:22,240
Speaker 1: right that once it leaves that chain, then there's a

1358
01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:25,200
Speaker 1: potential that things can get altered and evidence can be

1359
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:31,400
Speaker 1: destroyed and the wild Yeah, and because they treated this

1360
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:38,320
Speaker 1: as a suicide right away, like the apparently the cops

1361
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:41,520
Speaker 1: automatically were like, we think this is a suicide and stuff.

1362
01:07:42,200 --> 01:07:44,920
Speaker 1: The body went to the medical examiner was getting autopsied,

1363
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:47,960
Speaker 1: and they said it was a homicide. But like the

1364
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:50,680
Speaker 1: cops were in like this is a suicide mode and

1365
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:52,080
Speaker 1: weren't treating it as a crime scene.

1366
01:07:52,160 --> 01:07:54,440
Speaker 2: They didn't preserve evidence. Now, they stepped all over the

1367
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:56,360
Speaker 2: crime scene. They did all kinds of stuff that you

1368
01:07:56,400 --> 01:07:56,800
Speaker 2: would not do.

1369
01:07:57,000 --> 01:08:00,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, next day they released the scene that night and

1370
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:03,120
Speaker 3: the next day the apartment got fully cleaned.

1371
01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:07,120
Speaker 2: And didn't he have an uncle that was somewhere the boyfriend,

1372
01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:09,640
Speaker 2: Ye had an uncle that was somewhere in the police

1373
01:08:09,640 --> 01:08:11,440
Speaker 2: department or in the government of some sort. And they

1374
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:14,680
Speaker 2: came in computers. They picked all the computers.

1375
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:16,320
Speaker 1: Up Yeah, there was like there was like he was

1376
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:19,400
Speaker 1: a lawyer. There's like some connection with Josh Shapiro.

1377
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:22,360
Speaker 2: There's like this hole and they called crime scene cleaners, Yeah,

1378
01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:24,519
Speaker 2: specifically crime scene cleaners to come clean it up.

1379
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:27,280
Speaker 1: I just met and they and the computer. So the

1380
01:08:27,400 --> 01:08:31,200
Speaker 1: computer left this chain of costody for until they got

1381
01:08:31,280 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 1: it back a couple days later, weeks later, whatever. But like,

1382
01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:38,160
Speaker 1: who knows what was done to it? You, I mean,

1383
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:40,479
Speaker 1: there's some big nerds out there that could like make

1384
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:43,479
Speaker 1: bake Google searches, you know what I mean. That could

1385
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:46,439
Speaker 1: all be sure, but it could be real.

1386
01:08:47,280 --> 01:08:48,439
Speaker 2: So what do you think it is? What do you

1387
01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:51,080
Speaker 2: think happened? You're not sure. I just think the probably

1388
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:51,320
Speaker 2: can't be.

1389
01:08:52,360 --> 01:08:54,600
Speaker 1: I think she just wants an answer, I know, I

1390
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:55,519
Speaker 1: just want to know what you think.

1391
01:08:56,880 --> 01:08:59,439
Speaker 3: I I just think it's one of those like in

1392
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:01,200
Speaker 3: the Karen Read case too. I don't know if you're

1393
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:03,240
Speaker 3: familiar with that Boston Hell.

1394
01:09:03,360 --> 01:09:03,519
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1395
01:09:04,040 --> 01:09:07,160
Speaker 3: So I think it's one of those ones where you know,

1396
01:09:08,320 --> 01:09:11,200
Speaker 3: she in the media is being presented as a one

1397
01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:14,240
Speaker 3: hundred percent mentally sound person that just was found in

1398
01:09:14,320 --> 01:09:17,559
Speaker 3: this particular situation. I think the medications and the wanting

1399
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:20,240
Speaker 3: to move home and the psychiatrists appointments is important to

1400
01:09:20,280 --> 01:09:24,920
Speaker 3: bring up because I think it makes the suicide option likely,

1401
01:09:25,160 --> 01:09:27,920
Speaker 3: whereas when people are seeing it covered only one way,

1402
01:09:28,040 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 3: of course, it doesn't seem like that's possible at all.

1403
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:34,760
Speaker 3: But I think because of how botched it was, it's

1404
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:38,680
Speaker 3: just impossible to tell what really happened. And I think

1405
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:40,720
Speaker 3: it's the same with Karen the Karen Read case too,

1406
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 3: Karen Reid.

1407
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:43,000
Speaker 4: Fascinating.

1408
01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:44,479
Speaker 1: What do you guy and I agree to that one?

1409
01:09:44,560 --> 01:09:45,680
Speaker 2: Oh wait, no, finish what you're saying.

1410
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:49,560
Speaker 1: I was gonna say just because I you know, I

1411
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:52,080
Speaker 1: did my rotations at that office, and I know all

1412
01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:54,560
Speaker 1: of these doctors who are involved.

1413
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:57,479
Speaker 2: With this case with d Ellen Greenberg case, yes, okay, And.

1414
01:09:57,560 --> 01:10:00,960
Speaker 1: I've worked with them like a long time, some of them,

1415
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:04,479
Speaker 1: and I know there and and I just want to

1416
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:08,680
Speaker 1: say that the emmy who recently has just signed it

1417
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:12,320
Speaker 1: as a suicide still, I haven't worked with her since

1418
01:10:12,479 --> 01:10:15,560
Speaker 1: before Lillian was born, so twelve years. But when she

1419
01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:18,639
Speaker 1: was a resident under me, and she was I would

1420
01:10:18,680 --> 01:10:20,760
Speaker 1: consider her to be a good doctor. I thought that

1421
01:10:20,920 --> 01:10:24,320
Speaker 1: she was very interested in autopsies from the time she

1422
01:10:24,439 --> 01:10:26,200
Speaker 1: was a medical student. I knew her since she was

1423
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:30,840
Speaker 1: a medical student. She's she's always been on the autopsy track.

1424
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:36,120
Speaker 1: I did autopsies with this person, and she was very thorough.

1425
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:39,840
Speaker 1: She was one of the better doctors to do autopsies with.

1426
01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:43,439
Speaker 1: So I don't know, like I can't say what she's

1427
01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:46,200
Speaker 1: been doing in the past years, but I feel like

1428
01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:49,080
Speaker 1: if she looked at it again now, what she's supposed

1429
01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:53,160
Speaker 1: to do. She was young, she was in her she

1430
01:10:53,320 --> 01:10:55,799
Speaker 1: was in her twenties when that when that Ellen Greenberg

1431
01:10:55,880 --> 01:10:58,519
Speaker 1: case happened. She's just commenting and looking at pictures now

1432
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:00,479
Speaker 1: and reading reports. That's all she could do. She doesn't

1433
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:03,720
Speaker 1: have the body, so like you only could look at

1434
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:08,720
Speaker 1: what you have in front of you, and I guess

1435
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:11,240
Speaker 1: this is what this is what I just said to Andrew.

1436
01:11:12,080 --> 01:11:15,160
Speaker 1: I think that it's possible that it's a suicide, but

1437
01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:20,559
Speaker 1: it's it's not probable, like if that if that makes sense,

1438
01:11:21,320 --> 01:11:24,840
Speaker 1: if anything's possible in pathology, anything, there's always a first

1439
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:25,960
Speaker 1: of something.

1440
01:11:34,479 --> 01:11:35,040
Speaker 4: In all of this.

1441
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:39,560
Speaker 2: Because it is around Halloween time, right, how much do

1442
01:11:39,680 --> 01:11:44,439
Speaker 2: you guys believe or not believe and like paranormal activity

1443
01:11:44,479 --> 01:11:47,479
Speaker 2: when it comes to a crazy case like this. So

1444
01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:50,799
Speaker 2: my immediate thought and I know this is very KOOKI

1445
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:53,920
Speaker 2: we don't know what happened with this woman. Something snapped

1446
01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:56,840
Speaker 2: in her. Maybe something snapped in her and all of

1447
01:11:56,880 --> 01:11:59,519
Speaker 2: a sudden it was almost like a maybe mini possession

1448
01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:03,160
Speaker 2: or psychotic break, whatever it was possibly for her to

1449
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:05,439
Speaker 2: do this to herself. Have you, guys, ever seen any

1450
01:12:05,479 --> 01:12:08,320
Speaker 2: cases where you're like, the only explanation for this is

1451
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:11,040
Speaker 2: something otherworldly? Do you ever think that?

1452
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:15,360
Speaker 1: I don't listen. I used to when I worked in

1453
01:12:15,439 --> 01:12:19,160
Speaker 1: the hospital with Frank, my autopsy partner, who is amazing.

1454
01:12:19,320 --> 01:12:22,479
Speaker 1: He just died this year. He was Yeah, he was

1455
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:25,920
Speaker 1: the coolest dude ever, old school guy. There was this

1456
01:12:26,040 --> 01:12:27,760
Speaker 1: guy that worked in the lab with us who was

1457
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:30,760
Speaker 1: a ghost hunter, and he used to come up to

1458
01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:33,960
Speaker 1: us and be like, I want to come in the

1459
01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:36,960
Speaker 1: morgan see if there's any spirits around you guys and stuff.

1460
01:12:37,040 --> 01:12:39,599
Speaker 1: And Frank would be like, man, get the fuck out

1461
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:42,439
Speaker 1: of here, like it was so great because we're and

1462
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:47,320
Speaker 1: Frank has done thousands of autopsies because he was he

1463
01:12:47,560 --> 01:12:50,000
Speaker 1: was in his seventies when he retired, right like it

1464
01:12:50,160 --> 01:12:52,960
Speaker 1: just and he was doing them when they back in

1465
01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:54,559
Speaker 1: the day when they were doing a lot of them,

1466
01:12:55,120 --> 01:12:57,160
Speaker 1: and me and him would always talk about it, and

1467
01:12:57,320 --> 01:12:59,479
Speaker 1: just I'd be like, I just never been I've been

1468
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:02,760
Speaker 1: around dead bodies by myself, cut them, this and that,

1469
01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:05,439
Speaker 1: and I've never had an experience. I don't want to

1470
01:13:05,479 --> 01:13:12,280
Speaker 1: say that like it's impossible, because anything's possible, but but like,

1471
01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:14,840
Speaker 1: I've personally never had an experience, frank, never had an

1472
01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:17,160
Speaker 1: experience of anything. And you would think like people that

1473
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:21,840
Speaker 1: work with dead people would have the most experience with it, right, right, So,

1474
01:13:22,560 --> 01:13:23,120
Speaker 1: or maybe you're.

1475
01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:25,040
Speaker 2: So desensitized to it because it's around you all the time.

1476
01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:27,559
Speaker 1: Who's to say, yeah, exactly and.

1477
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:29,679
Speaker 2: Your answer, your short answer is no, you haven't ever.

1478
01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:31,599
Speaker 1: I just felt that I thought that, Yeah, I don't.

1479
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:32,559
Speaker 1: I just don't.

1480
01:13:33,400 --> 01:13:37,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm about you, Maria, you know I you know, we.

1481
01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:40,760
Speaker 3: We covered Sylvia Brown recently, and then you know, we

1482
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:42,920
Speaker 3: have listeners too who claim they could like talk to

1483
01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:43,679
Speaker 3: the dead and stuff.

1484
01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:44,920
Speaker 2: And I have a friend who does.

1485
01:13:45,479 --> 01:13:47,679
Speaker 3: I it's not that I don't believe.

1486
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:50,479
Speaker 1: I believe does she though, Like, you don't know, I've

1487
01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:51,800
Speaker 1: never had her do it with me.

1488
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:54,840
Speaker 2: I've never I mean, I know that the response she

1489
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:58,160
Speaker 2: gets from people is overwhelming. Holy shit, I can't believe you.

1490
01:13:58,160 --> 01:14:02,679
Speaker 3: Knew that really, yeah, because Teresa Caputo, it's not Teresa Capudo.

1491
01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:05,479
Speaker 2: Her name is Gina. She actually as my hair and

1492
01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:08,679
Speaker 2: makeup artist, and yeah, okay, amazing and incredible, but I've

1493
01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:11,439
Speaker 2: never ever dealt with her on that level in any

1494
01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:13,840
Speaker 2: of this. Okay, But I just hear feedback from other

1495
01:14:13,880 --> 01:14:15,400
Speaker 2: people who are like, oh my god, I can't believe

1496
01:14:15,439 --> 01:14:18,120
Speaker 2: you knew that. So I don't have my own opinion

1497
01:14:18,200 --> 01:14:18,800
Speaker 2: formed about it.

1498
01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:21,439
Speaker 3: I I'm kind of the same way, like I I'm

1499
01:14:21,680 --> 01:14:24,519
Speaker 3: sitting here neutral, like I can be. I could hear

1500
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:26,519
Speaker 3: somebody say they talk to them, and if they give

1501
01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:28,840
Speaker 3: me a convincing argument, I'll believe them. But I also

1502
01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:31,280
Speaker 3: can just look at science and be like, when you're dead,

1503
01:14:31,320 --> 01:14:34,559
Speaker 3: you're dead, you know. So I think I think somebody

1504
01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:37,120
Speaker 3: recently asked us how we thought about religion, and I

1505
01:14:37,240 --> 01:14:39,479
Speaker 3: kind of thought the same way. Like it's not that

1506
01:14:39,600 --> 01:14:41,840
Speaker 3: I don't I don't necessarily believe in the concept of

1507
01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:44,080
Speaker 3: heaven or hell, but I don't really think when you're dead,

1508
01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:44,800
Speaker 3: you're just gone.

1509
01:14:45,320 --> 01:14:47,000
Speaker 2: I was gonna ask you that the two of you

1510
01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:50,280
Speaker 2: working so closely and knowing so much about death, especially you, Nicole,

1511
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:53,760
Speaker 2: do you believe that the soul is an entity that

1512
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:57,200
Speaker 2: transfers from your body to something else or somewhere else

1513
01:14:57,240 --> 01:14:58,960
Speaker 2: when you die. Or do you think when you're dead,

1514
01:14:59,000 --> 01:14:59,360
Speaker 2: you're dead.

1515
01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:02,920
Speaker 1: Well, what it does to an extent, but we're we're

1516
01:15:02,960 --> 01:15:05,439
Speaker 1: all living here. Like when I die, my children have

1517
01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:06,200
Speaker 1: I have a piece?

1518
01:15:06,439 --> 01:15:06,600
Speaker 3: You know.

1519
01:15:06,720 --> 01:15:09,000
Speaker 1: Sometimes I look in the mirror as I'm getting older

1520
01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:11,080
Speaker 1: and I'm like, holy shit, like I look like my grandmam.

1521
01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:14,360
Speaker 1: Like it's crazy, you know, it's not like like you

1522
01:15:14,560 --> 01:15:17,840
Speaker 1: you leave a piece of you with everyone that you

1523
01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:21,360
Speaker 1: surround yourself with, including especially your genetics.

1524
01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:21,640
Speaker 5: Right.

1525
01:15:23,120 --> 01:15:26,760
Speaker 1: So I don't know, Like I just I feel like

1526
01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:30,640
Speaker 1: the fact that there's so many different religions and so

1527
01:15:30,800 --> 01:15:34,720
Speaker 1: many different beliefs, it's kind of like and they're not

1528
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:38,880
Speaker 1: like some of them are vastly different. I'm kind of like, eh,

1529
01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:43,080
Speaker 1: I understand. I understand the point of it, because I

1530
01:15:43,200 --> 01:15:46,960
Speaker 1: can't imagine going through a really bad tragedy with a

1531
01:15:47,040 --> 01:15:50,600
Speaker 1: loved one, and especially with one of my children and

1532
01:15:50,680 --> 01:15:54,360
Speaker 1: my husband like it. I'll probably start saying in my

1533
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:56,880
Speaker 1: head like I can't wait to see you again in

1534
01:15:56,960 --> 01:15:58,920
Speaker 1: heaven because it's the only way that I would ever

1535
01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:00,400
Speaker 1: be able to live in other day.

1536
01:16:00,840 --> 01:16:01,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, but like.

1537
01:16:03,080 --> 01:16:05,599
Speaker 1: But like is it real, Like nobody knows if it's real,

1538
01:16:05,720 --> 01:16:08,600
Speaker 1: Like nobody knows, So it's like it's all an imagination.

1539
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:12,439
Speaker 1: And I just don't particularly do that right now, but

1540
01:16:12,600 --> 01:16:15,320
Speaker 1: like I'm sure i'll, i'll, I could see grabbing for

1541
01:16:15,439 --> 01:16:18,720
Speaker 1: that for sure. But that's why I think it's important

1542
01:16:18,760 --> 01:16:22,040
Speaker 1: in your day to day life to make an impact

1543
01:16:22,120 --> 01:16:25,280
Speaker 1: on everyone and not wait for that and have that

1544
01:16:25,439 --> 01:16:27,040
Speaker 1: unsettled business, so to say.

1545
01:16:27,320 --> 01:16:28,920
Speaker 2: And I think the concept of heaven and hell is

1546
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:30,960
Speaker 2: a really great way to keep the masses who don't

1547
01:16:31,040 --> 01:16:34,360
Speaker 2: have a lot of independent thought in line. Yeah, you

1548
01:16:34,439 --> 01:16:36,240
Speaker 2: want to scare them, that's great, And it's you know,

1549
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:40,160
Speaker 2: clearly working in a lot of ways, I believe, and

1550
01:16:40,240 --> 01:16:43,280
Speaker 2: Diamond and I have definitely talked about this before. I

1551
01:16:43,320 --> 01:16:45,840
Speaker 2: think the soul is actually a form of energy. There

1552
01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:49,560
Speaker 2: are like studies more recently and researchers who have pinpointed

1553
01:16:49,680 --> 01:16:52,600
Speaker 2: like almost light leaving your body, and it could be

1554
01:16:52,680 --> 01:16:54,880
Speaker 2: temperature related, it could be all kinds of stuff. Right

1555
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:58,479
Speaker 2: when when you pass away. I think that this body

1556
01:16:58,520 --> 01:16:59,960
Speaker 2: that we all have is just sort of like our

1557
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:02,560
Speaker 2: cage while we're on Earth, and when it passes and

1558
01:17:02,640 --> 01:17:04,800
Speaker 2: it's done, whatever is in there, in that spirit and

1559
01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:07,080
Speaker 2: that soul, it's released, and then you gotta do whatever

1560
01:17:07,120 --> 01:17:09,040
Speaker 2: you want and go wherever you want. That's my thought

1561
01:17:09,080 --> 01:17:11,640
Speaker 2: about it, because if I think, like maybe matter is

1562
01:17:11,720 --> 01:17:14,360
Speaker 2: never created or destroyed, and the soul is a thing,

1563
01:17:14,760 --> 01:17:16,840
Speaker 2: then it can't be destroyed. It has to go somewhere else.

1564
01:17:17,040 --> 01:17:18,840
Speaker 2: I don't think it like floats into an animal or

1565
01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:20,760
Speaker 2: a rock or something like that. But I just wonder, like,

1566
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:22,680
Speaker 2: do you skip off into the universe. The universe is

1567
01:17:22,720 --> 01:17:24,800
Speaker 2: quite big, There's so much to discover, And what if

1568
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:26,920
Speaker 2: this body that we have is the thing that keeps

1569
01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:30,320
Speaker 2: us here and unable to go that far? Maybe death

1570
01:17:30,439 --> 01:17:33,080
Speaker 2: really is that sweet release that people talk about. Yeah,

1571
01:17:33,479 --> 01:17:33,840
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1572
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:38,120
Speaker 1: It's I feel like we just smoked weed. I do

1573
01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:41,560
Speaker 1: see do you see colors? Like, do you think that

1574
01:17:41,720 --> 01:17:44,040
Speaker 1: you see the color red the same I see the

1575
01:17:44,080 --> 01:17:47,000
Speaker 1: color red. Now, that is a thing I've thought about

1576
01:17:47,040 --> 01:17:49,360
Speaker 1: since I was like fourteen. I swear, yeah, I wonder.

1577
01:17:49,479 --> 01:17:52,680
Speaker 1: I wonder me too, But I but I can. I

1578
01:17:52,760 --> 01:17:56,320
Speaker 1: can definitely equate it to being in my closet with

1579
01:17:56,400 --> 01:17:59,880
Speaker 1: my friend and smoking weed. That's when those thoughts start

1580
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:00,320
Speaker 1: to come.

1581
01:18:01,320 --> 01:18:01,559
Speaker 2: Sure.

1582
01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:05,519
Speaker 1: But but yeah, like there's definitely. I mean, I think

1583
01:18:05,560 --> 01:18:07,519
Speaker 1: it's pretty definite that you could say that there's a

1584
01:18:07,640 --> 01:18:11,320
Speaker 1: soul because all you you have like think about this,

1585
01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:14,040
Speaker 1: like just from what happened with Charlie kirk Itz, Like

1586
01:18:14,080 --> 01:18:17,600
Speaker 1: you're watching this video of this animated person talking and

1587
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:20,479
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, it's gone like that quick,

1588
01:18:21,080 --> 01:18:25,400
Speaker 1: Like that's what when you're looking at a dead body,

1589
01:18:25,479 --> 01:18:28,880
Speaker 1: It's just that there's no there's no like I mean,

1590
01:18:28,920 --> 01:18:33,120
Speaker 1: it's dead, there's no there's no any energy there. Kind

1591
01:18:33,160 --> 01:18:35,800
Speaker 1: of it's weird to say. It's just like when people say,

1592
01:18:35,840 --> 01:18:37,080
Speaker 1: are you scared to be in a room with a

1593
01:18:37,120 --> 01:18:39,080
Speaker 1: dead body, I'm like, no, it's it's the same as

1594
01:18:39,240 --> 01:18:41,880
Speaker 1: as like a chair, to you, a chair exactly Like

1595
01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:45,320
Speaker 1: there's nothing there. And I don't know how to I

1596
01:18:45,400 --> 01:18:47,639
Speaker 1: don't really know how to explain it. But you see

1597
01:18:47,680 --> 01:18:51,160
Speaker 1: it when especially when you see people get killed in

1598
01:18:51,280 --> 01:18:55,080
Speaker 1: front of you. Hopefully people don't have to witness that, yeah,

1599
01:18:56,400 --> 01:18:59,040
Speaker 1: but but you see it. It's just like like that

1600
01:18:59,320 --> 01:19:02,360
Speaker 1: can't it's just gone, and you're like, what is that?

1601
01:19:02,680 --> 01:19:04,680
Speaker 1: That has to be something, you know what I mean,

1602
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:08,320
Speaker 1: it's different than any other living thing even really you

1603
01:19:08,400 --> 01:19:09,080
Speaker 1: know what I mean.

1604
01:19:09,240 --> 01:19:09,840
Speaker 4: It truly is.

1605
01:19:10,120 --> 01:19:12,200
Speaker 2: I'm just interested to hear from you guys, like what

1606
01:19:12,320 --> 01:19:15,120
Speaker 2: your take on that was, Diamond, what's your take on it?

1607
01:19:15,720 --> 01:19:17,640
Speaker 2: You gotta come over here to the microphone.

1608
01:19:20,200 --> 01:19:25,960
Speaker 5: Just think it. Like you said a little bit earlier,

1609
01:19:27,960 --> 01:19:32,799
Speaker 5: you have to, in my opinion, at least trick yourself

1610
01:19:32,880 --> 01:19:34,960
Speaker 5: into thinking that you're going to see these people again.

1611
01:19:35,320 --> 01:19:38,120
Speaker 5: So like, that's just the way that I was raised

1612
01:19:38,160 --> 01:19:40,760
Speaker 5: to think about it. My family is really religious or not,

1613
01:19:40,960 --> 01:19:44,840
Speaker 5: like it's more spiritual. So that's just the way that

1614
01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:46,880
Speaker 5: I've always thought about it. And I've always felt like

1615
01:19:47,080 --> 01:19:51,400
Speaker 5: bad for people who don't think that way, because I

1616
01:19:51,479 --> 01:19:55,720
Speaker 5: feel like death is so final, so it would break

1617
01:19:55,800 --> 01:19:57,280
Speaker 5: my heart to even think about the fact that I

1618
01:19:59,080 --> 01:20:01,760
Speaker 5: never see certain people again, you know.

1619
01:20:02,240 --> 01:20:05,640
Speaker 1: So like yeah, so so then religion is for the

1620
01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:08,680
Speaker 1: living and not for the dead, Like that's that's how

1621
01:20:08,720 --> 01:20:11,639
Speaker 1: I look at it. I specifically remember being at my uncle.

1622
01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:15,439
Speaker 1: My uncle, he he was not young, he was in

1623
01:20:15,560 --> 01:20:18,320
Speaker 1: his fifties and dropped dead from a heart attack, and

1624
01:20:18,760 --> 01:20:22,960
Speaker 1: I remember being at his funeral and just the priest

1625
01:20:23,160 --> 01:20:25,960
Speaker 1: we were raised Catholic, and the priests saying, you know, oh,

1626
01:20:26,080 --> 01:20:28,120
Speaker 1: he's going up to a better place now and all this,

1627
01:20:28,240 --> 01:20:30,360
Speaker 1: and I was and then it clicked and I was like, oh, okay,

1628
01:20:30,439 --> 01:20:33,120
Speaker 1: this is this is the only way that my aunt,

1629
01:20:33,200 --> 01:20:35,280
Speaker 1: my cousins are going to be able to like leave

1630
01:20:35,320 --> 01:20:39,640
Speaker 1: this church and like live on the rest, you know, absolutely,

1631
01:20:39,800 --> 01:20:42,080
Speaker 1: And and it's it's it's a good it's a good

1632
01:20:42,160 --> 01:20:46,800
Speaker 1: thing to have because otherwise, like what you know, some

1633
01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:49,360
Speaker 1: if you lose your your your husband, your wife, your kids,

1634
01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:53,000
Speaker 1: like somebody really sibling, whatever, somebody close to you, Like,

1635
01:20:53,120 --> 01:20:55,800
Speaker 1: how do you live the rest of your life in

1636
01:20:55,920 --> 01:20:56,719
Speaker 1: any kind of peace?

1637
01:20:56,880 --> 01:20:57,040
Speaker 3: You know?

1638
01:20:57,560 --> 01:20:59,160
Speaker 2: I think it's funny that so many people and I

1639
01:20:59,160 --> 01:21:01,880
Speaker 2: will I'll leave it here with the pothead conversation, But

1640
01:21:02,520 --> 01:21:05,320
Speaker 2: so many people think religion and science work against each other,

1641
01:21:05,400 --> 01:21:07,400
Speaker 2: and I actually think they kind of worked together in

1642
01:21:07,479 --> 01:21:10,160
Speaker 2: a lot of ways, because there was a time when

1643
01:21:10,640 --> 01:21:14,400
Speaker 2: science filled the gaps or I should nope, reverse, there

1644
01:21:14,520 --> 01:21:16,800
Speaker 2: was a time that religion filled the gaps that science

1645
01:21:16,840 --> 01:21:19,360
Speaker 2: couldn't fill because people didn't know things. So if a

1646
01:21:19,439 --> 01:21:23,080
Speaker 2: church was the only building standing after a crazy tornado,

1647
01:21:23,120 --> 01:21:24,479
Speaker 2: they were like, wow, it's because it was a church,

1648
01:21:24,560 --> 01:21:26,400
Speaker 2: But oh, maybe in fact, it was because it was

1649
01:21:26,439 --> 01:21:29,040
Speaker 2: built of steel and everything else was not. Yeah, And

1650
01:21:29,280 --> 01:21:30,920
Speaker 2: you know, my kids having a seizure and when I

1651
01:21:30,960 --> 01:21:32,760
Speaker 2: took them to the church, the seizure stopped. Well maybe

1652
01:21:32,800 --> 01:21:35,760
Speaker 2: the kid just stopped having the seizure by the time

1653
01:21:35,800 --> 01:21:38,719
Speaker 2: you got to the church. So a lot of religion

1654
01:21:38,760 --> 01:21:41,120
Speaker 2: sort of filled these gaps until science came along and said, well,

1655
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:43,479
Speaker 2: this is actually what's happening. But at the end of

1656
01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:45,960
Speaker 2: all the science we know, there is still just one

1657
01:21:46,000 --> 01:21:48,040
Speaker 2: more thing that we don't know. And I think that's

1658
01:21:48,080 --> 01:21:50,439
Speaker 2: where religion kind of comes back into it. And I

1659
01:21:50,520 --> 01:21:54,960
Speaker 2: think religion definitely gives people an answer or at least

1660
01:21:55,000 --> 01:21:57,760
Speaker 2: a feeling of comfort to the great unknown that can

1661
01:21:57,840 --> 01:22:00,280
Speaker 2: be terrifying to so many people, which is why I

1662
01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:02,800
Speaker 2: never argue religion with anyone. I'm like, if you need that,

1663
01:22:03,680 --> 01:22:04,760
Speaker 2: get it, Yeah, good for you.

1664
01:22:05,080 --> 01:22:05,720
Speaker 1: Yeah I'm not.

1665
01:22:05,760 --> 01:22:07,240
Speaker 2: As long as you're not stepping on my rights and

1666
01:22:07,280 --> 01:22:08,560
Speaker 2: coming at me telling me what I have to do,

1667
01:22:08,880 --> 01:22:10,519
Speaker 2: We're not gonna argue about this. I want everyone to

1668
01:22:10,600 --> 01:22:12,800
Speaker 2: have something that gives them that type of peace. But

1669
01:22:13,040 --> 01:22:15,920
Speaker 2: it is an interesting relationship between the two that people

1670
01:22:15,960 --> 01:22:18,080
Speaker 2: think can't exist, and I think they totally exist together.

1671
01:22:18,520 --> 01:22:21,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that one hundred percent. I think

1672
01:22:21,120 --> 01:22:24,519
Speaker 1: that you think about all these personalities that are just

1673
01:22:25,120 --> 01:22:27,880
Speaker 1: larger than life, Like someone like Marilyn Monroe, for example,

1674
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:31,719
Speaker 1: just had this this personality that like still lives today

1675
01:22:31,880 --> 01:22:35,000
Speaker 1: kind of right, and you're like, they can't just die

1676
01:22:35,160 --> 01:22:39,120
Speaker 1: and just be dead like a mass of nothing, right,

1677
01:22:39,280 --> 01:22:42,120
Speaker 1: Like there has to be something. I don't know what

1678
01:22:42,240 --> 01:22:46,599
Speaker 1: it is. It's above my pay grade, but I agree

1679
01:22:46,640 --> 01:22:47,880
Speaker 1: with what you said one hundred percent.

1680
01:22:48,320 --> 01:22:49,800
Speaker 2: I feel like that's a good note for us to

1681
01:22:49,960 --> 01:22:50,600
Speaker 2: wrap it up on.

1682
01:22:50,840 --> 01:22:55,560
Speaker 1: I think so too. Yeah, that was so philosophical and beautiful.

1683
01:22:56,400 --> 01:22:58,000
Speaker 2: I think you guys are awesome and I would love

1684
01:22:58,040 --> 01:23:01,360
Speaker 2: to do more crossover episodes. Yeah, the time you want to. Yes,

1685
01:23:01,720 --> 01:23:04,760
Speaker 2: keep me posted and thanks for having me be part

1686
01:23:04,840 --> 01:23:06,040
Speaker 2: of your crossover episode.

1687
01:23:06,120 --> 01:23:06,320
Speaker 5: Thanks.

1688
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:09,320
Speaker 1: Yes, the best. This is the best.

1689
01:23:10,200 --> 01:23:12,200
Speaker 2: So if people want to find you guys online, how

1690
01:23:12,240 --> 01:23:12,800
Speaker 2: can they do that?

1691
01:23:13,520 --> 01:23:13,560
Speaker 4: So?

1692
01:23:13,800 --> 01:23:17,920
Speaker 1: My instagram is at missus m R S Underscore and

1693
01:23:18,160 --> 01:23:23,520
Speaker 1: Jimmy A n G E M I And our podcast

1694
01:23:23,720 --> 01:23:24,599
Speaker 1: is at Mother.

1695
01:23:24,560 --> 01:23:28,160
Speaker 3: Nos Death and I'm at Maria q Kine and.

1696
01:23:28,479 --> 01:23:31,880
Speaker 1: Our website is the grossroom dot com.

1697
01:23:32,280 --> 01:23:34,040
Speaker 2: And you've got a book out already and another one

1698
01:23:34,080 --> 01:23:36,360
Speaker 2: on the way. Yes, which where can they find the book.

1699
01:23:36,960 --> 01:23:41,519
Speaker 1: The book can be anywhere, Amazon wherever. What's uh, Nicole

1700
01:23:41,560 --> 01:23:44,080
Speaker 1: and Jemmy's Anatomy Book. I know you're like, could you

1701
01:23:44,160 --> 01:23:51,599
Speaker 1: help me, Nicole and Jemmy's Anatomy Book. It's pink, it's cute.

1702
01:23:51,720 --> 01:23:55,400
Speaker 1: It's in Barnes and Noble, but it's also on Amazon.

1703
01:23:55,200 --> 01:23:56,120
Speaker 2: And it's cute.

1704
01:23:56,800 --> 01:23:58,960
Speaker 3: Sorry, but there's inside.

1705
01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:01,639
Speaker 1: There are her terrific things inside. You're going to open

1706
01:24:01,720 --> 01:24:03,559
Speaker 1: it and be like, oh my god, your.

1707
01:24:03,520 --> 01:24:06,559
Speaker 3: Book is not yet up for pre order. You don't

1708
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:07,680
Speaker 3: even have an official.

1709
01:24:07,520 --> 01:24:11,080
Speaker 1: It's not I didn't even finish writing it yet. That's

1710
01:24:11,160 --> 01:24:13,000
Speaker 1: not coming out till twenty twenty seven though.

1711
01:24:13,160 --> 01:24:14,000
Speaker 2: But that's exciting.

1712
01:24:14,120 --> 01:24:16,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, it's good. I feel like it's going

1713
01:24:16,080 --> 01:24:20,000
Speaker 1: to be awesome. And there's there's very few celebrity death books, actually,

1714
01:24:20,160 --> 01:24:22,200
Speaker 1: and this one is going to be a different kind

1715
01:24:22,240 --> 01:24:25,879
Speaker 1: of a perspective than anything I've seen. So I'm excited

1716
01:24:25,880 --> 01:24:26,240
Speaker 1: about that.

1717
01:24:26,479 --> 01:24:29,360
Speaker 2: And you're covering some of the most sensational celebrity deaths,

1718
01:24:29,560 --> 01:24:31,519
Speaker 2: your take on it, and you have all of like

1719
01:24:31,800 --> 01:24:33,960
Speaker 2: the research and the autopsy reports and all these different

1720
01:24:34,000 --> 01:24:35,960
Speaker 2: things you guys are going to analyze and then come

1721
01:24:36,040 --> 01:24:37,680
Speaker 2: to your own conclusions.

1722
01:24:37,160 --> 01:24:41,200
Speaker 1: About Yeah, and I mean it's not even just highly

1723
01:24:41,360 --> 01:24:45,080
Speaker 1: publicized ones. It's just everyday ones, like people Alex Trabeka

1724
01:24:45,160 --> 01:24:47,439
Speaker 1: used to watch on Jeopardy and just like everywhere one

1725
01:24:47,479 --> 01:24:50,360
Speaker 1: of them. Yeah, just like random people, Steve Jobs and

1726
01:24:50,600 --> 01:24:52,000
Speaker 1: you know, just everybody.

1727
01:24:52,560 --> 01:24:54,720
Speaker 2: All right, I love it. I can't wait. So you

1728
01:24:54,800 --> 01:24:56,560
Speaker 2: guys started this podcast out, so I feel like you

1729
01:24:56,600 --> 01:24:59,960
Speaker 2: should close it. However, you close your podcast by the way.

1730
01:25:00,280 --> 01:25:03,560
Speaker 2: I'm at Baby Hot Sauce on Instagram, and that's really it.

1731
01:25:04,160 --> 01:25:05,839
Speaker 2: You can find our I love your necklace.

1732
01:25:05,880 --> 01:25:07,200
Speaker 1: By the way. It's so cute.

1733
01:25:07,840 --> 01:25:08,800
Speaker 2: It says Baby Hot Sauce.

1734
01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:10,200
Speaker 1: I feel like it's perfect.

1735
01:25:10,360 --> 01:25:10,679
Speaker 4: Thanks.

1736
01:25:11,040 --> 01:25:13,960
Speaker 2: I've weirdly enough, we think I'm still shadow band because

1737
01:25:13,960 --> 01:25:15,320
Speaker 2: they flagged me as a child predator.

1738
01:25:15,520 --> 01:25:16,439
Speaker 4: I am, you are too.

1739
01:25:16,760 --> 01:25:19,519
Speaker 1: Oh it's so bad. It's so bad, and you want

1740
01:25:19,560 --> 01:25:21,560
Speaker 1: to hear. I'll tell you later what I did to

1741
01:25:21,640 --> 01:25:22,240
Speaker 1: figure it out.

1742
01:25:22,360 --> 01:25:24,559
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, I can't. I have a friend at Meta

1743
01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:27,120
Speaker 2: who was like, oh, yeah, definitely, because you can't put

1744
01:25:27,160 --> 01:25:28,040
Speaker 2: baby in Hot together.

1745
01:25:28,080 --> 01:25:31,280
Speaker 1: I'm like, give me all bright, I can't this friend

1746
01:25:31,400 --> 01:25:31,960
Speaker 1: do anything.

1747
01:25:32,120 --> 01:25:34,160
Speaker 2: He tried, and for a minute I felt like I

1748
01:25:34,320 --> 01:25:37,360
Speaker 2: was flying again. And then clearly my wings have been clipped,

1749
01:25:37,520 --> 01:25:39,240
Speaker 2: but I will not give up the name, so at

1750
01:25:39,240 --> 01:25:41,320
Speaker 2: Baby Hot Sauce and obviously this podcast sauce on the

1751
01:25:41,400 --> 01:25:43,680
Speaker 2: side along with Mother Nos Death. You can get on

1752
01:25:43,760 --> 01:25:47,200
Speaker 2: the iHeart app or anywhere you get podcasts. But how

1753
01:25:47,240 --> 01:25:48,000
Speaker 2: do you close it out?

1754
01:25:48,600 --> 01:25:48,960
Speaker 4: All right?

1755
01:25:49,040 --> 01:25:51,759
Speaker 3: Guys? Well, please head over to Apple or Spotify, leavers

1756
01:25:51,920 --> 01:25:54,400
Speaker 3: or review, subscribe to our YouTube channel, and if you

1757
01:25:54,439 --> 01:25:57,560
Speaker 3: have questions, comments, and no concerns, please email them to

1758
01:25:57,640 --> 01:25:59,519
Speaker 3: stories at Mothernosdeath dot com.

1759
01:26:00,479 --> 01:26:01,360
Speaker 1: Five fe