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Speaker 1: There have been a lot of parallels made between the

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty presidential election when Ronald Reagan defeated Jimmy Carter

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Speaker 1: on a landslide to where we are today in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four. So will Joe Biden go down and defeat

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Speaker 1: like Jimmy Carter did? And what parallels are there? We're

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Speaker 1: going to talk to a man who was elected to

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Speaker 1: the Senate in nineteen eighty and has been surveying ever since.

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Speaker 1: That man is Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa. He is

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Speaker 1: a legend in the Senate and I'm so honored to

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Speaker 1: have him on the show. I have so many questions

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Speaker 1: for him. But what we are going to talk to

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Speaker 1: him about is how is.

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Speaker 2: He so liked?

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Speaker 1: We live in such a politically toxic world where everyone

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Speaker 1: hates each other, but somehow Conservatives love him, Moderates love him,

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Speaker 1: and even Democrats seem to love the guy.

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Speaker 2: So how does he manage to do that?

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Speaker 1: While so talked to him about that nineteen eighty election,

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Speaker 1: does he think Donald Trump is going to have the

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Speaker 1: same victory? And of course we're going to get his

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Speaker 1: take on his time as Chairman of the Senate Judiciary

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Speaker 1: Committee during that Supreme Court nomination of Justice on no

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Speaker 1: Justice Brett Cavanaugh. I could tell he was deeply troubled

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Speaker 1: during that process. So we'll talk to him a little

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Speaker 1: bit about that, and lastly about the weaponization of government.

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Speaker 1: Trust me, you're not going to want to miss this

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Speaker 1: interview with a legend of the Senate, just a legend

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Speaker 1: in life, Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa. Hi, Senator, It's

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Speaker 1: such an honor to have you on the show. You're

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Speaker 1: a legend. So I'm so excited about this.

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Speaker 3: I see you a lot of times on Fox News.

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Speaker 3: I once in a while I turn over to CNN

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Speaker 3: to find out what the enemy's saying, and Barbara Grassley

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Speaker 3: just shouts out, why do we want to watch CNN?

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Speaker 3: So I'm forced to watch Fox all the time.

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Speaker 1: Well, well, Fox is great. You know, I wouldn't want

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Speaker 1: to watch CNN either.

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Speaker 3: My staff has been telling me that you said your

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Speaker 3: dad look for the Appropriations Committee. What was his name?

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Speaker 1: My name was Jeff Booth and so he was a

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Speaker 1: staffer on the Appropriations Committee in nineteen eighty seven. I

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Speaker 1: think you were a minority ranking member of one of

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Speaker 1: the subcommittees.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the one on military construction.

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Speaker 2: Something like that. But he has so much respect for you,

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Speaker 2: and as do I. But everyone does.

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Speaker 1: And that's the thing that you know, Democrats even seem

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Speaker 1: to like you, moderate seemed to like you, Conservatives seemed

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Speaker 1: to like you. How do you manage to do that

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Speaker 1: in today's politically toxic world.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think the I think the institution of the Senate,

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Speaker 3: with the requirement of a super majority to stop debate

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Speaker 3: before you get to finality on a bill, forces by partisanship.

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Speaker 3: And you know, people would think I was brag and

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Speaker 3: if I said I work in a biparson way, and

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Speaker 3: I say that two ways, one pretty difficult to prove.

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Speaker 3: But there isn't a senator I dislike, and if anybody

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Speaker 3: dislikes me, I don't want to know who their name is.

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Speaker 3: And secondly, I refer people to the Georgetown University website

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Speaker 3: to go on to click on to Senator Lueger's Center,

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Speaker 3: and once a year they give index of bipartisanship in

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Speaker 3: the United States Senate. And I've never worse off than

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Speaker 3: twelve out of one hundred, and sometimes I've been as

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Speaker 3: good as five out of one hundred. So I think

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Speaker 3: that centers shows that at least. The survey show that

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Speaker 3: I work in a by Parson away, and I think

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Speaker 3: that's how you get along with very liberal people and

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Speaker 3: very conservative people.

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Speaker 1: Have those relationships changed over the years. Is it more

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Speaker 1: challenging for people to get along now?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And it comes from the change of all most

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Speaker 3: liberals being Democrat and except for two or three Republicans,

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Speaker 3: most of them conservative. You see, when I came to

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Speaker 3: the United States Senate in nineteen eighty one, there was

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Speaker 3: probably twenty percent of the Republican caucus. You had moderates,

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Speaker 3: a lot of people from New England as one example,

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Speaker 3: and Democrats had a few conservatives, mostly from the South end.

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Speaker 3: As you know, the South had a lot of conservative Democrats,

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Speaker 3: and so a lot of differences were worked out in

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Speaker 3: the United States Senate within our caucuses. So when you

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Speaker 3: went to the floor, things were kind of moderated. Now

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Speaker 3: you don't do that in your caucus, and that's more

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Speaker 3: difficult when you get to the floor, and so I

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Speaker 3: think that has led to partisanship. Then the other thing

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Speaker 3: is just the evolution of talk radio, the evolution of

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Speaker 3: TV TV with all the channels we have, and then

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Speaker 3: maybe even more so social media and the most extreme

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Speaker 3: views are expressed where thirty five, forty years ago or

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Speaker 3: even twenty five years ago were not so expressed. And

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Speaker 3: then I think some of it started at least as

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Speaker 3: far as our consideration of judges, with the Democrats feeling

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Speaker 3: that George W. Bush stole the election in two thousand

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Speaker 3: and Schumern and a bunch of other people, including led

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Speaker 3: by Lawrence Tribe of Harvard, said, you know, we got

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Speaker 3: to start taking ideological points a view of nominees to

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Speaker 3: the Supreme Court or the courts generally into consideration. And

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Speaker 3: it's all right to do that. And for two hundred

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Speaker 3: years before that, nobody ever thought of that. You looked

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Speaker 3: at the qualifications of the judges and you chose them

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Speaker 3: based upon their qualifications and their independence and their temperament,

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Speaker 3: and I ideology didn't serve as a major goal. And

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Speaker 3: so that's so that's how we have become on at

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Speaker 3: least on judges, almost everyone. You got to have a

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Speaker 3: cloture vote before you get to final passage. And so

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Speaker 3: I think those things all added together has led to

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Speaker 3: the partisanship that we have. And it's bad, and I

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Speaker 3: don't think in my lifetime. I'm ninety years old. I

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Speaker 3: don't think in my lifetime it's going to change, but

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Speaker 3: I do think it's going to get back better as

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Speaker 3: time goes on.

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Speaker 2: I hope so.

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Speaker 1: And you had mentioned, you know, Judges, you're obviously the

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Speaker 1: chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. During Supreme Court Justice

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Speaker 1: Brett kavanaughs confirmation hearing, I could tell the way he

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Speaker 1: was being treated and the character assassination directed towards him

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Speaker 1: really bothered you. What do you think bothered you the

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Speaker 1: most about it? You know, is there anything you can

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Speaker 1: give us behind the scenes or kind of what was

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Speaker 1: going through your mind during all of that.

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Speaker 3: When Democrats tried to shut down the Kavanaugh hearing, I think,

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Speaker 3: you know, you don't shut down a hearing. You can

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Speaker 3: shut down try to shut down an executive meeting of

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Speaker 3: the committee, but not a hearing. So they kept trying

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Speaker 3: to adjoin the hearing, and I decided to put up

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Speaker 3: with it and fight it, but not fight it by

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Speaker 3: gabling people down, but by letting talk and probably irritated

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Speaker 3: my Republicans more than I did the Democrats because they

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Speaker 3: thought I ought to shut them up right away, But

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Speaker 3: it takes longer to shut up people that are complaining

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Speaker 3: that it is to let them talk. So I instead

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Speaker 3: of a meeting, that first meeting getting over and by

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Speaker 3: two o'clock it got over I guess by five o'clock,

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Speaker 3: so we wasted three hours, but they didn't run over me.

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Speaker 1: You had mentioned that you were elected in nineteen eighty

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Speaker 1: eight to the Senate or nineteen eighty to the Senate.

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Speaker 1: Obviously you're in the House before then. That was during

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Speaker 1: the Reagan landslide against Jimmy Carter. Republicans had captured the

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Speaker 1: Senate for the first time since nineteen fifty four. A

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Speaker 1: lot of people are comparing Joe Biden to Jimmy Carter

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Speaker 1: and just the weakness of his numbers, the weakness of

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Speaker 1: the state of the country.

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Speaker 2: Do you see parallels.

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Speaker 1: Between what you saw then in nineteen eighty and what

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Speaker 1: is happening now in the country?

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Speaker 2: Heading in the twenty twenty four election.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, inflation, mostly higher interest rates was a big factor,

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Speaker 3: and I think it's related to that, But how it

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Speaker 3: affects the economy now this administration is trying to say, well,

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Speaker 3: interest rates have gone down from nine high of nine

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Speaker 3: to three. They forget it was one point four when

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Speaker 3: they took office, and what they want people to feel

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Speaker 3: good about, like inflation has gone, well, increase, inflation has gone,

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Speaker 3: But for a family of four in Iowa, I see

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Speaker 3: the figure close to seven thousand dollars a year. In

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Speaker 3: the case of big cities, for a family of four,

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Speaker 3: maybe ten thousand dollars a year. That Biden inflation is

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Speaker 3: branded into their their family budget for the rest of

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Speaker 3: their life. It's never going to go away. And that's

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Speaker 3: that's pretty important. And then you've got this Biden border

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Speaker 3: crisis is unlike anything we've seen before. It's unparalleled in

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Speaker 3: American history. And and and that's a major issue as well.

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Speaker 3: Now you want me, I guess I guess I just

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Speaker 3: mentioned immigration. That was not a problem in the Carter administration,

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Speaker 3: but it's surely a problem for this administration.

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Speaker 1: We're going to take a commercial break more with Senator

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Speaker 1: Chuck Grassley. You know throughout the years, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: we just talked about what they did to Brett Kavanaugh.

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Speaker 1: They'd left it to Brett kavanon the character assassination, the

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Speaker 1: you know, false allegations that they waged against him. We're saying,

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Speaker 1: the government just become more weaponized against people. You know,

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Speaker 1: what they're doing to Donald Trump. I know you've been

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Speaker 1: investigating the anti Catholic memo that came from that Richmond

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Speaker 1: FBI field office. Has the government become more weaponized against Americans?

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Speaker 2: And if so, why do you think that is?

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Speaker 3: Well, I don't know, because civil servants or even political appointees,

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Speaker 3: at least in the justice environment FBI should throw politics

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Speaker 3: to the side. But the way that they worked on

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Speaker 3: on Trump even before he was elected that he was

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Speaker 3: a Russian agent, the way they are using the courts

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Speaker 3: now to do it, they haven't put politics aside. And

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Speaker 3: I sure hope that we have a President Trump that

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Speaker 3: will not will forget this word about retribution. I think

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Speaker 3: maybe he has. I haven't heard him talk about it much.

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Speaker 3: But this president Trump has an opportunity to do what

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Speaker 3: Biden said he was going to do in the last

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Speaker 3: election and his inaugural bring people together. They've divided America

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Speaker 3: up into religious, secular people, black and white people. Hispanics

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Speaker 3: separate from Blacks and from Asians, and I don't know

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Speaker 3: how many different divisions we have. We're all Americans, and

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Speaker 3: I want candidate Trump, hopefully Trump presidency, to do what

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Speaker 3: Biden said he was going to do on inaugural day,

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Speaker 3: bring America together. But he's done just exactly the opposite,

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Speaker 3: and I think it has caused Americans to lose faith

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Speaker 3: in our institutions like the FBI. And I want to

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Speaker 3: give you an example of one person that I whistleblowers

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Speaker 3: helped me bring to the public's attention, t Bow, and

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Speaker 3: it's spelt in a French way. It's a good example

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Speaker 3: where we had whistleblowers say, you need to look at

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Speaker 3: this guy's what he's doing and what his social media says,

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Speaker 3: and we got proof that he was starting investigations against

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Speaker 3: Trump on lousy newspaper information. He was stopping investigations of

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Speaker 3: Hunter Biden when there was evidence they should proceed, and

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Speaker 3: he was in charge of starting and stop all these investigations.

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Speaker 3: And I pointed out to Ray, probably the only time

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Speaker 3: Ray ever did anything that I asked him to do,

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Speaker 3: but he fired the guy, or at least the guy's gone.

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Speaker 3: And then another one is this ten twenty three example

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Speaker 3: where I heard from whistleblowers and FBI and they brought

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Speaker 3: to me this ten twenty three It took me several

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Speaker 3: months to actually get my hands on it, but they

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Speaker 3: told me what was in it. And even before I

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Speaker 3: got my hands on it, I was trying to get information.

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Speaker 3: What are you doing about this information? No answers. And

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Speaker 3: then even after I made it public July of last year,

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Speaker 3: it was September twenty seventh before they started questioning this guy.

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Speaker 3: I think he's name Smearoff, and I never knew who

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Speaker 3: he was, didn't know he existed. I didn't say that

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Speaker 3: what was in the ten twenty three was truthful or

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Speaker 3: not truthful. I just wanted to know what the FBI

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Speaker 3: was doing. And we found out that this document was

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Speaker 3: existed since June twenty twenty and here twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 3: Almost the end of twenty twenty three, they started investigating it. Now,

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Speaker 3: if I hadn't made this ten to twenty three public,

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Speaker 3: this guy had been working for the FBI, paid a

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Speaker 3: couple hundred thousand dollars over a period of ten I

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Speaker 3: suppose now you'd say thirteen years, and he would still

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Speaker 3: be lying to the FBI, and he would still be

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Speaker 3: being paid by the taxpayers, and still maybe be an

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Speaker 3: agent for the Russians. I don't know for that for sure,

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Speaker 3: but those are some of the things that my oversight

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Speaker 3: has done to make sure the FBI does its job. Hopefully,

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Speaker 3: if they do their job, they're going to re establish

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Speaker 3: their credibil But that's why oversight is so important. The

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Speaker 3: checks and balance is a government that you learned in

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Speaker 3: eighth grade sevix and I'm going to keep it up.

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Speaker 3: But I want to know whether the FBI is earning

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Speaker 3: their money and or are they doing are they being political?

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Speaker 3: And I think they weren't investigating this guy because they

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Speaker 3: didn't want to. They didn't want to get in the

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Speaker 3: Hunter Biden situation, and my ten twenty three forced them

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Speaker 3: to get a person they had been paying for and trusting.

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Speaker 3: In fact, Ray testified to Congress that he was a

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Speaker 3: credible source of information, So even Ray didn't know what

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Speaker 3: was going on, that this guy was lying to him.

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Speaker 2: And I hope you get to the bottom of it

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Speaker 2: before we go. Senator.

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to get your take before you know,

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden was president, he was vice president, he was

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Speaker 1: in the Senate for quite a while. You served alongside him.

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Speaker 1: How much has he changed since you knew him as

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Speaker 1: a senator?

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Speaker 3: Only to this, Well, maybe he's changed a dozen ways,

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Speaker 3: but I can only testify to one. I worked very

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Speaker 3: closely with Biden as a member of the Judiciary Committee,

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Speaker 3: he was chairman of it. We worked on legislation together,

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Speaker 3: not a lot because he's a Democrat and I'm a Republican,

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Speaker 3: but we did work a lot on some things. And

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Speaker 3: I can say this, if he were president of the

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Speaker 3: United States the way he was a senator, working in

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Speaker 3: a bipartisan way as a senator, we wouldn't have this

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Speaker 3: country going left the way it's going.

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Speaker 2: So he's changed a great deal.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, he has changed a great deal.

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Speaker 1: Well, Senator Chuck Grassley, I know you've got a busy schedule.

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Speaker 1: It's such an honor to have you on the show, sir.

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Speaker 1: I'm such a fan of yours. I just think you're

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Speaker 1: such a measured and you seem like such a good man,

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Speaker 1: and I just really appreciate you taking the time.

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Speaker 2: It's truly an honor.

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Speaker 3: I'll be glad to be with you again, Lisa, if

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Speaker 3: you want me, oh, I.

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Speaker 2: Would love that.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Sirkay, goodbye. That was Senator Chuck Grassley. Appreciate

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Speaker 1: him making the time. Appreciate you guys at home for

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Speaker 1: listening every Monday and Thursday, but you can listen throughout

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Speaker 1: the week. I also want to thank John Cassio, my producer,

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Speaker 1: for putting the show together.

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Speaker 2: Until next time.