WEBVTT - Grids of Oppression and Privilege 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.560 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wokate F Daily with 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:19.119 me your girl, Daniel Moody recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:23.000 let me tell you something. On a day this week, 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:29.880 I woke up with sheer panic in my stomach and 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:34.480 in my heart. I had had a series of nightmares 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:42.199 about the now fifteen thousand plus people that have been murdered, 0:00:42.680 --> 0:00:48.360 majority of them children and women in Gaza. I had 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:54.880 a nightmare that Donald Trump became president, the last president 0:00:55.000 --> 0:01:01.160 of the United States, that I was ripped apart from 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:07.000 my family, from my friends, from my freedom, that LGBTQ 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:13.840 people were forced into camps and or underground, that black 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:20.199 people segregation was born and new, except more violent people 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:25.080 were losing their jobs, their homes, being incarcerated at rates 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:30.200 that we have never seen. And the Trump administration twenty 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:38.399 twenty five was like a steamroller. Thankfully, I woke up 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:45.080 and it was still twenty twenty three. However, folks, this week, 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:48.920 Donald Trump, in a pre taped interview with Sean Hannity 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:56.400 in Iowa, when asked by Sean Hannity, will you weaponize 0:01:56.760 --> 0:02:02.200 your position if president again? Will you seek retribution on 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:08.360 those that were against you? Donald Trump's response was, I'll 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:13.680 only be a dictator on day one. To that response 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:24.560 was rousing laughter and applause from the audience. Right after that, folks, 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:28.680 which happened at the beginning of the week. It happened 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:34.640 on Tuesday. I went on MSNBC that Wednesday morning with 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:42.280 Anna Cabrera and she played the clips and it was 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:46.920 like the same questions, Well, what do you think about this? 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:50.920 Should we take this seriously? Blah blah. I cannot fucking 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:57.200 express enough that we need to take Donald Trump very seriously. 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:00.920 Do you think that, oh, Donald Trump will be a 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:03.520 dictator on day one and then you know, he'll go 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:07.799 back to following the Constitution, which his lawyers most recently 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:15.200 said that he did not swear to protect the Constitution, 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:22.600 to uphold the Constitution. I want to remind folks that 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:25.440 everything that came out of Donald Trump's mouth that he 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:30.000 said that he would do during his first administration, he did. 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:37.680 He tested the fences. Now he knows where all of 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:40.160 the weak spots are, he knows where all of the 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:44.360 hidden doors are. He knows exactly what to expect, exactly 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:49.160 who to install to finish the hit job on our democracy. 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:53.680 So when I'm asked, should we take Donald Trump at 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:59.120 his word? My response is yeah, apps fucking lutely, and 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:04.480 so forevery one who is continuing to signal comfortably in 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:08.080 twenty twenty three that they're not going to vote for 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:13.680 Joe Biden. Look here, folks, I'm having nightmares about what 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:18.279 is happening in Gaza, just like all of you. I 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:22.800 am disgusted, dismayed, feel a sense of hopelessness that this 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:27.760 could be happening in broad daylight with our fucking tax 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:34.040 dollars and everyone's just okay with it. Then I remember 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:40.320 they martyreed six million Jews and Gypsies and all different 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:45.000 types of people that Hitler deemed unworthy before the United 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:49.720 States would enter into World War II. We have an 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:55.200 entire museum now dedicated to lynchings that took place in 0:04:55.279 --> 0:05:01.080 this country. We don't even know how many enslaved Black 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:07.839 Africans were killed, murder, torture, beaten, raped, and we're talking 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:14.919 about centuries, folks. This country's hands have never been cleaned, 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:22.240 they have always been covered in blood. But the kind 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:27.880 of rampage that Donald Trump will do in this country, 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:32.279 I want you to remember the image from Lafayette Square 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:38.040 where he had protesters cleared out forcefully. We're in Madison's book. 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:42.360 General Madis's book, he said, Donald Trump asked them, can't 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:46.520 we just shoot them in the leg or something. He said, 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:52.520 absolutely fucking not. The next general that Trump would install 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:57.599 wouldn't have sworn an oath to the Constitution. They would 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:02.560 have sworn an oath to Donald Trump. He wants the 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:08.240 ability to turn the military on citizens he deems as 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:13.440 dissenters or enemies of the state, which would be anyone 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:16.200 who is not white, who is not straight, who is 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:21.919 not male, who is not Christian, and who is not MAGA. So, 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:25.440 folks need to wake the fuck up. You need to 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:30.440 start having conversations. Friends. Keep having those conversations with your family, 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:34.440 your friends, your colleagues, your voting age kids, because what 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:42.040 is at stake is our freedom. Coming up next my 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:47.839 conversation with my friend Roquel Willis, who is an activist, 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:53.760 a trans activist, author, writer, just all around badass. I 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:57.920 interview her about her new book, The Risk It Takes 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:06.400 to Bloom. Yeah, dear Friends, is coming up next, folks. 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:10.200 I am so excited anytime that I get to bring 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:13.720 in some bad ass voices to wok F I am 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:22.040 thrilled and newly minted author Roquel Willis is here with 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:27.240 me today. She has authored the memoir The Risk It 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:32.560 Takes to Bloom, which girl the title just bravo on 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:38.280 life and liberation about her story, and it is just 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:40.760 I mean, if you can tell by the plants in 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:45.560 the back the cover, the entire breakdown into budding and 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:49.440 blooming is right up my alley. But Raquel, let me 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:54.080 start out by asking this question. You have been in 0:07:54.240 --> 0:08:00.440 media and journalism for years, right, you have founded the 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:04.320 alarm on so much. You have been a person that 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:07.880 has been the consciousness in a lot of places, and 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:11.320 I want to ask you why now for your memoir? 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:15.200 You know, what was it about this moment, this time? 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:19.080 What was the deciding like, yes, it's this is this 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:22.160 is the time for me to put out my full story. 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:29.120 Well, thank you so much, Danielle. Well, I've been joking that, 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:32.679 well this is when the publisher set it could come out, 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:33.720 which is. 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:34.720 Kind of true. 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:39.120 But part of it, I mean, and let's be roll, 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:42.200 some of it is that. Some of it is like 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:45.920 it has taken me having a certain amount of access 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:49.760 and a certain platform to be kind of co signed 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:53.600 by the powers that be that my story can be 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:56.240 told on this level and in this format, So that 0:08:56.360 --> 0:09:01.840 is also important to name. But the the seeds of 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:04.559 this really started in college when I was at the 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:09.800 University of Georgia back in twenty thirteen. I studied journalism 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:15.800 and at that time, like it was just before Orang 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:20.360 Just a New Black came out, it was almost the 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:26.400 years before Janet release Janet Mock released Redefining Realness, So 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:29.000 there weren't a lot of narratives out there about black 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:32.440 trans women, much less people in general. 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:35.240 So I knew that. 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:42.760 I wanted to add something to the trans canon about 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:48.040 my experience coming into my identity as a young black 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:50.640 trans person in Georgia in the South, because we also 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:54.440 don't really have a lot of Southern narratives about black 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:55.760 trans experiences. 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:00.599 I think that that is what is also really important 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:02.960 about your story, and I want you to be able 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:06.160 to explain more about that, is that there has been 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:11.439 you know, when we have national conversations around the trans community, 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:16.160 there is this assumption that it must be these liberals 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:19.760 in these you know on the coasts right that there 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:24.440 you know that uh, that trans people queer people don't 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:30.200 exist in other places, let alone the South, let alone Georgia. 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:32.440 So I want you just to be able to speak 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:35.920 to why it is also important to be able to 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:41.400 lift up geographical and regional narratives of queer stories and 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:44.480 not just you know, queer stories in general. 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:48.959 Yeah, I mean growing up in the South in the 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:53.720 nineties and early two thousands, I mean everything in general 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:57.319 was kind of situated elsewhere. I mean thinking about media 0:10:57.360 --> 0:11:01.960 and the TV shows, living Say Go Martin, et cetera, 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:05.120 et cetera. Everything was based somewhere else. It was based 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:10.120 in New York, it was based in maybe Chicago, maybe 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:16.160 San Francisco. So a lot of what I consumed as 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:19.400 a young person was somewhere outside of the South. And 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:22.080 then I think also coming into my identity as a 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:28.720 queer person, the idea was like, oh well, my freedom 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:32.400 for expression lived somewhere else and lived in these queer 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:35.800 meccas New York and South San Francisco, which is not 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:40.440 unlike I think generations before. And I grew up with 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:44.400 these stories of black folks who left the South for 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:47.480 a better life elsewhere, whether it was up north or 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:53.160 out west where it was less restrictive for black folks 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:55.440 or people on the margins, and so I kind of 0:11:55.520 --> 0:12:02.880 see that story of my grain for Liberation as a 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:06.679 part of that kind of narrative I built within myself. 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:10.760 And so I think there's also an intervention I wanted 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:14.000 to make in my career and of course with this book, 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:17.760 around how the South is kind of thrown away in 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:22.400 discussions around societal progress. And so there's this idea that 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:27.240 the South is a lost cause, interestingly enough situated in 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:32.040 some of the ideas from the Civil War and the 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:36.120 lost Cause, right, But this idea that, oh, well, the 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:39.600 South will always be regressive because that's where the staunchest 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:44.520 discrimination has happened historically and maybe still happens legislatively. 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:45.800 But I think that's a lie. 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:49.400 I think, especially as you go through the book and 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:55.400 I talk about my experiences both in progressive regions quote unquote, 0:12:55.440 --> 0:13:00.280 these places like the Bay Area or New York, these 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:04.199 blue coastal areas as we like to say, but also 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:06.920 in so called progressive movements. 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:07.200 Right. 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:12.160 No, there's still anti blackness and trans misogyny in the 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:16.480 LGBTQ movement. There's still all of those things in feminism, 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:22.520 and they're still trans misogyny and queerophobia and black liberation movement, yes, right, 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:25.600 and so we also don't talk about those things enough 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:26.200 as well. 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:37.160 Do you think that you know, when adding your memoir 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:41.640 coming out at this time, right, which is and I 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:43.880 you know, I will speak to it from my angle 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:46.400 as a black queer woman. I think that this is 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:50.600 probably one of the most troubling and toxic times for 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:54.320 queer people that I've seen since I became you know, 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:58.920 an advocate and an activist a decade plus ago. Right 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:06.240 that I hadn't seen book banning. I hadn't seen you 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:11.120 know this, These kinds of regressive policies that we are 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:16.160 seeing originate in places like Florida, like Texas, you know, 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:20.480 in these southern regions. And I wonder, as you are 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:28.480 able to live now out loud, what does it mean 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:31.200 to like, both be able to live out loud and 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:37.640 be this model of possibility, but also recognize that young 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:42.640 people coming behind you actually maybe in a worse situation 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:46.320 than you were when you were looking for you know, 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:49.120 looking for your own models, that while there may be 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:53.040 more for them to see like that, the reach, the 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:54.480 distance seems further. 0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:01.280 It's a mixed bag for show. I mean, some of 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:06.320 it is, of course, there is a bit of freedom 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:13.880 that comes from access, from having a platform, from having success, 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:18.040 and in that the visibility that also kind of informs 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:18.960 some of those things. 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:23.640 And then, unfortunately, and I talk. 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:27.200 About this dynamic as well, you know, passing is still 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:31.600 a thing, right, this kind of conditional passing privilege. So 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:34.920 in my day to day life outside of you know, 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:38.680 my public life, I have ease, but so much of 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:42.600 that comes from embodying a certain type of womanhood, a 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:48.200 certain type of femininity, and so we still haven't moved 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:49.160 far enough in. 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:51.080 Terms of society around those things. 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.600 Right, There's a real and some of this privilege is 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:56.880 a lot of this privilege is a lot of the 0:15:56.920 --> 0:16:00.280 reason why people take notice or listen to what I 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.760 have to say, right, And that's not even getting into 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:04.240 you know, light skin. 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:09.960 Privilege, social economic privilege, educational privilege, and on and on. 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:15.080 And so it's a mixed bag, right, because my hope 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:19.840 has been throughout my career that the next generations don't 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:23.120 have to check off the same boxes that I did. 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:28.240 But unfortunately, so much has not shifted. To your point, right, 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:32.760 there is still a lot of walking on water that 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:38.200 has to happen, you know, to get to a space 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:41.000 like I'm at where I can share my story on 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:41.680 this level. 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:45.240 So that's difficult to hold. And it is. 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:50.040 Difficult to think how difficult it is for young, particularly 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:54.480 trans folks, to own their truths. I mean, I can't 0:16:54.520 --> 0:17:00.200 imagine what it would be like for me to come 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:05.720 into my transidentity in college at a flagship institution in 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:11.600 the South right now, where one of the benefits back 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:17.600 then is not being legible, which is it's the weird 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:21.440 double edged sword of visibility, right the not being seen, 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:26.960 the not being visible and legible gave me a sense 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.680 of freedom because there wasn't. 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:33.400 All of this baggage, yeah, that was attached. 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:35.080 To my experience, and I kind of just got to 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:37.840 be myself, even if some people might have thought I 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:38.720 was weird or whatever. 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:40.120 I got to be an individual. 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:45.840 And now, because of what these conservative politicians are doing 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:51.480 and these ignorant celebrities are doing, because they are part 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:56.040 of this misinformation mountain that we're up against, a lot 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:59.280 of trans folks don't get to be anything outside of 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:02.800 the these tropes and these narratives that they keep pushing. 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:04.240 And that's unfortunate. 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:09.720 Yeah, And I would imagine, you know, just like I 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:11.679 always try and take a step back and kind of 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:15.480 open up the aperture on my eyes, the lens you 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:19.120 know that I come to things with. And you know what, 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:22.480 I remember coming into the movement and being like, oh, 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:25.600 so there's racism here too, Like, oh, I thought this 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:27.960 was going to be liberal, you know, Like I remember 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:31.919 going into you know, you and I have had it's funny, 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:34.920 like similar kind of bios where I'm just like, oh, 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:37.280 I went to a women's organization and then I was 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:40.640 just like, oh, you're a racist, right like, and and 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:43.879 you're homophobic and you know, and it. You know again, 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:46.520 that was like the early two thousands. But you think 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:50.919 that they're these spaces allow for more expansiveness, and so 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:53.520 I just want you to speak to like showing up 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:57.720 in spaces where you're just like, oh, you're hearing this 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:02.000 is about everybody's liberation, this about everybody's right, and then 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:06.480 being met with yeah, no, right, Like, just speak to 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:09.439 that a little bit of what it's like to be 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:14.560 in these varied movement spaces, these varied newsrooms where you 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:17.680 think that like space has been made that you can 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:21.080 take up and then you're told yeah, no, too much. 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:28.160 Yeah. I mean I think about the fact that we 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:31.120 kind of give ourselves. 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:36.960 Free passes because we're like, oh, we're on the margins 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:42.200 in this way, and so we often just don't consider 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:45.000 or it takes much more work to consider that, oh, 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:48.720 just because I'm oppressed on this access doesn't mean I'm 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:50.640 not oppressive on this other. 0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:53.880 And that's a hard thing. I mean. 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:58.479 And we also love a binary honey across the board, 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:01.720 not even just talking about But the truth is is 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:06.520 that we all kind of live depending on positionality, depending 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:13.960 on the environment, the space, on different parts of this 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:19.480 larger grid of oppression and privilege, so to speak. And 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:22.720 I think we all have a hard time grappling with that. 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:26.000 So that's the thing. But then I think even in 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:31.960 these spaces where so for instance, nonprofits or in these movements, 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:37.720 where certain people become leaders for any myriad of reasons, 0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:43.600 that desire for validation, that desire for power, it's hard 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:46.280 for people to check. It's hard for people to check 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:51.320 that ego, and so folks often don't realize when they're 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:55.040 being harmful to others because they're still in the space 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:58.480 where they haven't healed around the validation that they've been 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:02.959 seeking and the title that the nonprofit is not going 0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:04.000 to fill that void that. 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:05.760 You have, Honey, come on right. 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:13.560 The position you made a crew in community is not 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:17.040 going to fill those wounds in that void that you have. 0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:23.280 From whatever reason, I know my voids came from, and 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:26.240 I talk about in the book this idea that I 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:31.960 felt like I had to create a life despite my 0:21:33.880 --> 0:21:36.480 queerness and transits, right, like I had to try and 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:40.160 make my life as palatable as possible because those were 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:43.760 already strikes against me. And that came from wounds from 0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:47.800 my relationship with my parents and particularly my father, of 0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:51.160 not living up to his ideals of black masculinity and 0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:56.600 society's ideals. And so this book gave me a chance 0:21:56.680 --> 0:22:01.879 to dig deeper into that work and to also just 0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:07.200 think about how expectations have plagued me at various points 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:10.879 in my life. And I hope that that's something that 0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:15.080 everyone can latch onto from this book, beyond maybe even 0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:16.639 being black and trans. 0:22:22.640 --> 0:22:26.040 I mean yes, because those are like universal themes of 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:31.440 us trying to meet somebody's expectations right in our lives. 0:22:31.520 --> 0:22:35.639 And I wonder, you know, through putting together you know, 0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:41.840 your intricately woven story, what did you learn from your 0:22:41.960 --> 0:22:46.439 process of going through this, like about you and where 0:22:46.600 --> 0:22:49.080 you know, how far you've come, and like where you 0:22:49.160 --> 0:22:53.280 are now, Like what was that? How has that journey 0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:53.800 been for you? 0:22:56.960 --> 0:23:00.719 Well, I'll go back to talking about that voice and 0:23:00.800 --> 0:23:05.800 that need for validation, because that colors every part of 0:23:05.840 --> 0:23:10.320 your life. And one of the revelations that I had 0:23:10.359 --> 0:23:15.080 as I was going through the revision process in particular, 0:23:16.040 --> 0:23:21.879 was that I needed to reconsider my relationships even with 0:23:22.000 --> 0:23:22.800 my family. 0:23:23.359 --> 0:23:23.560 Right. 0:23:23.640 --> 0:23:25.440 So, I know in the book, you know, we talk 0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:28.439 about the evolution of my relationship with my mom and 0:23:28.560 --> 0:23:33.080 my sister and my brother, an extended family, and also 0:23:34.440 --> 0:23:40.879 I realized, like, oh, there's an intimacy gap and a 0:23:40.920 --> 0:23:44.000 lot of it. I mean, and I'm talking from my perspective, 0:23:44.119 --> 0:23:47.520 Like for me, it has been that shield of like 0:23:47.680 --> 0:23:56.280 trying to again make my life palatable enough to just 0:23:56.359 --> 0:24:02.880 get a baseline feeling of adequacy to my family's expectations. 0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:05.840 But I think on different levels, like. 0:24:07.840 --> 0:24:11.440 The sis straight people in my family also did that, right, 0:24:11.480 --> 0:24:15.080 And so our baggage is like sitting side by side 0:24:15.119 --> 0:24:18.480 and it's a barrier between us really just like engaging, 0:24:18.600 --> 0:24:21.520 Like I want to be able to share my insecurities, 0:24:21.560 --> 0:24:24.280 my anxieties, my fears, et cetera, et cetera. I don't 0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:27.720 want to have to put on this pristine image for you, 0:24:28.200 --> 0:24:31.199 at the very least not my family. So that is 0:24:31.200 --> 0:24:33.479 a thing, and I think that that probably resonates with 0:24:33.520 --> 0:24:39.520 a lot of particularly black folks, brown folks, folks from 0:24:39.560 --> 0:24:42.720 immigrant experiences. Right Yeah, there's a way that we have 0:24:42.920 --> 0:24:48.680 to comport ourselves to be seen even within our own 0:24:48.800 --> 0:24:50.200 families and communities. 0:24:50.240 --> 0:24:51.200 So that's the thing. 0:24:52.840 --> 0:24:58.480 But I also think about, I guess, in our communities 0:24:58.520 --> 0:25:08.239 and in our movements, how we continue to carry a 0:25:08.280 --> 0:25:12.000 lot of these fissures from the past that were never 0:25:12.320 --> 0:25:17.120 like really acknowledged, or when they were, those efforts were squashed. 0:25:17.200 --> 0:25:21.400 And so I think about, for instance, terfism. 0:25:21.640 --> 0:25:26.600 Right in the feminists speak on it tell people what 0:25:26.720 --> 0:25:29.399 to tell people what it? You know, because while I 0:25:29.480 --> 0:25:32.159 may talk about tell people what that is so that 0:25:32.240 --> 0:25:35.000 they understand. I mean, we've talked about Chappelle, We've talked 0:25:35.000 --> 0:25:37.920 about headline moments when that kind of shit comes up. 0:25:37.960 --> 0:25:42.120 But please, yeah, I mean what I think about particularly 0:25:42.359 --> 0:25:46.800 feminist movements, right, Like, we've had some conversations around anti 0:25:46.880 --> 0:25:55.800 blackness and how feminisms of color were marginalized, and feminists 0:25:55.800 --> 0:26:01.920 of color and marginalized lesbians and queer fem were marginalized 0:26:01.920 --> 0:26:04.600 within the larger feminist movement, of. 0:26:04.520 --> 0:26:07.600 Course, all of the attacks on sex workers. 0:26:07.200 --> 0:26:12.000 And on and on, but also alongside that trans women, 0:26:12.600 --> 0:26:17.240 the marginalization of us within feminisms, its roots go back far. 0:26:17.800 --> 0:26:20.399 I mean at least to the seventies right, and I 0:26:20.480 --> 0:26:24.119 talk about Janis Raymond and some of these high profile 0:26:24.800 --> 0:26:29.800 trans exclusionary radical feminists before we really had the term, 0:26:30.480 --> 0:26:34.440 and how they planted these fissures and it was never 0:26:34.480 --> 0:26:37.800 really addressed then. And so now we see the conservative 0:26:37.880 --> 0:26:43.840 right taking advantage of those fissures and pulling them farther right. 0:26:43.920 --> 0:26:48.000 That's why the Turfs are working with the Christian conservative right. 0:26:48.240 --> 0:26:51.000 But when I also think about black liberation movements, you know, 0:26:51.000 --> 0:26:53.320 I talk about the Movement for Black Lives and what 0:26:53.760 --> 0:27:00.560 the experience was like in this movement that is on 0:27:00.760 --> 0:27:04.760 the same line, of course of previous black liberation movements. 0:27:04.800 --> 0:27:07.600 So think about the Black Panther Party. I mean, I 0:27:07.720 --> 0:27:13.120 mentioned Elaine Brown and the experiences that she had around 0:27:13.280 --> 0:27:17.520 massage noir in the Black Panther Party right, and while 0:27:17.600 --> 0:27:23.040 there were overt discussions, particularly from someone like Huey P. 0:27:23.200 --> 0:27:30.440 Newton around the intertwined destinies of gay and lesbian folks. 0:27:30.240 --> 0:27:33.720 And the fight for black liberation. 0:27:36.119 --> 0:27:39.840 I still to this day don't know any openly queer 0:27:39.840 --> 0:27:43.960 and trans folks who were within the Black Panther Party. 0:27:44.480 --> 0:27:46.720 I may be missing them. And I know, you know, 0:27:46.960 --> 0:27:49.920 we know a lot more about the experiences, for instance, 0:27:49.960 --> 0:27:52.760 of like Angela Davis, right, but I don't know that 0:27:52.840 --> 0:27:53.440 we've ever. 0:27:53.359 --> 0:27:55.679 Even on a public level, discussed well. 0:27:57.640 --> 0:28:00.840 I never knew that, even though I knew Angela Davis's work, 0:28:00.920 --> 0:28:03.440 I didn't know that until the last few years, right, 0:28:03.520 --> 0:28:06.560 that she was queer. And so how those kind of 0:28:06.600 --> 0:28:11.119 hidden stories are there. And then, of course in the 0:28:11.200 --> 0:28:17.280 LGBTQ plus movement, right, there is a forgotten understanding that 0:28:17.480 --> 0:28:23.639 some of the initial gay lobbying for political rights in 0:28:24.040 --> 0:28:30.240 the seventies was adamantly opposed to the inclusion of trans 0:28:30.320 --> 0:28:35.400 folks and the inclusion of what they considered to be freaks, 0:28:35.720 --> 0:28:38.760 you know, the drag queens and on and on, because 0:28:39.640 --> 0:28:42.840 you know, they weren't palatable enough not to mention the 0:28:42.880 --> 0:28:47.440 sidelining of queer women and lesbians in early gay lobbying 0:28:47.600 --> 0:28:50.640 and leadership as well, so these exist. 0:28:52.560 --> 0:28:56.800 You know, I remember, in my limited time and experience 0:28:56.920 --> 0:28:59.280 being told that you need to put you know, you 0:28:59.360 --> 0:29:01.560 kind of need to choose which identity you want to 0:29:01.600 --> 0:29:06.120 fight for liberation for. It's why we have conversations around intersectionality. 0:29:06.200 --> 0:29:09.280 That has been used and said at nauseum without really 0:29:09.360 --> 0:29:14.120 understanding the context around that, but the fact being that 0:29:14.600 --> 0:29:19.320 you're always asked when you're a person that embodies multiple identities, 0:29:19.360 --> 0:29:21.960 which many of us do live at the intersection of. 0:29:22.040 --> 0:29:25.400 Many are told, well, we need to fight for the 0:29:25.400 --> 0:29:29.880