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Speaker 1: If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough. You're

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Speaker 1: listening to soft Rep Radio Special Operations, Military Nails and

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Speaker 1: straight Talk with the guys in the community.

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Speaker 2: Rad with another awesome episode of soft Rep Radio. You

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Speaker 2: guys already know that I don't like to tell you

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Speaker 2: who my guest is until I tell you, But you've

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Speaker 2: clicked on the link and so you already know he's here.

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Speaker 2: But before I introduce him, let me tell you about

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Speaker 2: the merch Store. So go to soft rep dot com

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Speaker 2: soft rep Mafia. Thanks so much for supporting us at

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Speaker 2: keeping the fireplace going with the merch shop. Second is

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Speaker 2: the soft rep dot com forward slash book hyphen Club.

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Speaker 2: That's right, book hyphen Club. You go check that out.

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Speaker 2: It's curated by the special operators behind the scenes, putting

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Speaker 2: books together that they think you would like to read.

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Speaker 2: All right, so go check that out. Go check out

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Speaker 2: the book club at soft rep dot com. Also, the

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Speaker 2: loadoutroom dot com has taken off with peer reviews articles.

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Speaker 2: The podcast is shared over there now, so make sure

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Speaker 2: you're checking out the loadoutroom dot com. Now, my next guest.

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Speaker 2: His name is Gene U. He's a former Green Beret.

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Speaker 2: He went to West Point, and I'm gonna read a

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Speaker 2: little bit about his dotti and then we'll welcomed him

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Speaker 2: to the show. Okay, So I'm gonna okay, So we're

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Speaker 2: going to talk about first of all, one of his

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Speaker 2: books that he wrote, called The Second Shot by Genu.

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Speaker 2: But gene was born in Concord, Massachusetts, in nineteen seventy

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Speaker 2: nine and entered the United States Military Academy at West

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Speaker 2: Point in nineteen ninety seven, where he majored in computer

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Speaker 2: science and graduated top of his class. Gene served in

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Speaker 2: Korea and Japan as a US Army armorer and Special

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Speaker 2: Forces officer. He deployed for four combat tours in Iraq

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Speaker 2: and the Southern Philippines and is a recipient of two

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Speaker 2: Bronze Stars excuse me, two Bronze Stars medals and the

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Speaker 2: Combat Infantry and the Combat Infantryman Badge. In twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 2: Gene founded Black Panda Group, a cybersecurity, insurance and emergency

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Speaker 2: response services company headquartered in Singapore, and currently he serves

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Speaker 2: as the CEO. Jane is also an alumnus of John Hopkins'

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Speaker 2: School of Advanced International Studies and Stanford Graduate School of Business.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to the show, Jean, awesome. Yeah, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: Rad Yes to be here, and thanks for coming to

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Speaker 2: us from Singapore tonight. I know it's about twelve thirty am,

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Speaker 2: year time, and I'm in Utah. It's beautiful, sunny. It's

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Speaker 2: about ten thirty in the morning here mountain time, and

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Speaker 2: I got the fireplace going. It's about it's going to

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Speaker 2: be about eighty eight high today started out about fifty

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Speaker 2: four and the low so how Singapore today.

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Speaker 3: It's absolutely sweltering and humid, as it is every day here. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: we're almost on the equator, so it's a different, different

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Speaker 3: scene out here. There's no seasons, right, it's basically just

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Speaker 3: the same same year around. Is that a huge ey?

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Speaker 2: What is that?

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Speaker 3: It is?

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Speaker 2: It is?

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Speaker 3: I thought it, you know, I thought i'd uh wear

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Speaker 3: it for this this podcast.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. People actually asked me about it out here in

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Speaker 3: Asia sometimes and are like, that's cool. I've never heard

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Speaker 3: of that university in the States, Pineland, University of Pineland,

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Speaker 3: where's that? And uh, you should? I just have a

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Speaker 3: Chuck Houm State it's somewhere in North Carolina. Yeah, small

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Speaker 3: school in North Carolina.

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Speaker 2: So let to you go through huh right now? Now, now, Gene,

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Speaker 2: you guys have asked to me on the show to

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Speaker 2: talk about, you know, your book that you've written, which

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Speaker 2: is going to get into I believe it's Evelyn Chang, right,

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Speaker 2: did I remember that correctly? Right? And she lost her

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Speaker 2: husband in an ambush situation. Uh, you know, in the

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Speaker 2: jungle settings of the Philippines. And I know there's so

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Speaker 2: much to this book that I've that I've learned, but

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Speaker 2: I also know there's a lot to you. So but

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Speaker 2: let's let's let's let's go to prequels like Star Wars.

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Speaker 2: Let's go back. Okay, you're like sixteen years old, living where.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so at that point, I'm I'm in Curpertino, California,

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Speaker 3: where Apple's headquartered. That's where my family moved. I was

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Speaker 3: born in Massachusetts. Has covered my bio briefly there. But

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Speaker 3: I moved out when I was ten and I spent

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Speaker 3: kind of my adolescence in South Bay, Silicon Valley. That's

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Speaker 3: that's where I grew up. So yeah, at that time period,

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Speaker 3: like a lot of teenagers, pretty confused trying to figure

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Speaker 3: out my.

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Speaker 2: Identity skateboarding scouts skateboarding.

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Speaker 3: I was a little bit weirder, like, you know, I

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Speaker 3: had a kind of like this confused goth you know,

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Speaker 3: thing going on with this code and and but then

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Speaker 3: it was like this nerdy tennis player. So we had this.

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Speaker 3: We actually were one of the best high school tennis

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Speaker 3: teams in all the West Coast. But you know, in

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Speaker 3: the States, tennis does get a lot of get a

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Speaker 3: lot of respect growing up in high school. And so

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Speaker 3: but that was kind of my identity, right. So I

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Speaker 3: was a bit frustrated with my lot in life and

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Speaker 3: felt like I was a pretty cookie cutter like every

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Speaker 3: other Asian kid in in Cupertino. A caveat that. I

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Speaker 3: grew up in an area that's a part of the States,

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Speaker 3: one of the few parts of the States is dominantly

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Speaker 3: Asian American population, right, So my high school is over

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Speaker 3: fifty percent Asian, right, And so I kind of grew

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Speaker 3: up in the Asian American bubble, you know, around that area.

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Speaker 3: And I mentioned this my my writing as well. I

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Speaker 3: went to a public, public public education you know, previlege

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Speaker 3: all the way through through West Point, and oddly my

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Speaker 3: high school Mono Vista High School was so anti military

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Speaker 3: that they didn't even allow recruiters onto the on the campus.

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Speaker 3: So I had never actually even heard of West Point,

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Speaker 3: but they sent me a letter recruiting me for tennis,

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Speaker 3: and I thought it was like I thought it was

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Speaker 3: like Hogwarts, you know, you know, but for warriors rather

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Speaker 3: than wizards. You know, this is pret Harry Potters. That's

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Speaker 3: kind of a back dad reference. But and you know,

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Speaker 3: when I when I started looking into more of the school,

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Speaker 3: I was inspired by a book that I actually shoplifted

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Speaker 3: at a head, a local bookstore that I used to

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Speaker 3: used to hang out at, written by another Asian American

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Speaker 3: named Gustlie and he went to West Point in the

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Speaker 3: sixties and wrote a semi fictional account of his own

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Speaker 3: experiences there. And that's what kind of tipped me off

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Speaker 3: to is that the whole school and the experience and

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Speaker 3: inspired me to apply.

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Speaker 2: And of was that book called China Boy.

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Speaker 3: Oh good poll So that is actually the prequel to

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Speaker 3: the book about West Point is called Honor and Duty.

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Speaker 3: China Boy. Yeah, so China Boy, which actually is a

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Speaker 3: book that I read before that as well. So this

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Speaker 3: this actually caught my eye when I realized there was

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Speaker 3: a sequel did the same character, which is basically Gustlie

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Speaker 3: growing up in San Fransco. I mean, China Boy is

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Speaker 3: basically the karate Kid for Asian for an Asian American story,

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Speaker 3: but in the boxing ring, right.

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Speaker 2: I love boxing, dude, I tell you what. I love it.

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Speaker 2: I just got done today.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah training, Yeah yeah, I do it every day.

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Speaker 3: Yeah it's awesome, man.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's.

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Speaker 3: Uh, that's part of Gustly's story in China Boy, and

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Speaker 3: that that I don't want to leap too far forward,

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Speaker 3: but so that's actually part of my story as well.

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Speaker 3: So I was I was the Brigade open boxing champion

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Speaker 3: at West Point. I got uh, I got knocked out

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Speaker 3: and yeah, man, I love you, bro. But part of

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Speaker 3: my stories I got I got knocked out in plea

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Speaker 3: boxing and got put in the hospital for two days

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Speaker 3: with a severe traumatic brain injury. I still actually most

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Speaker 3: of my disability check today as a veteran comes from

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Speaker 3: that TBI in my medical records, just from my plee

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Speaker 3: beear at West Point. I got messed up, man, I was.

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Speaker 2: Right, you're going for your pugilist in the military.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean this is a plea beear mandatory physical

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Speaker 3: education boxing, right, and man the story, Yeah, and I

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Speaker 3: was like, like in high school, I did go do

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Speaker 3: like a little bit of like tie kickboxing classes, but

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Speaker 3: I never did anything serious. It was just like went

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Speaker 3: to a gym and they you know, just had me

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Speaker 3: kick the kick and punched the bag in the corner

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Speaker 3: and they just took my money. Right. But when I

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Speaker 3: showed up to West Point, I had a little bit

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Speaker 3: better form, I would say, than some of the classmates.

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Speaker 3: And so the instructors thought it was a lot better

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Speaker 3: than I was and put me in with a really

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Speaker 3: good classmate who beat the crap at our first graded

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Speaker 3: graded bout and and I got I got hurt, right,

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Speaker 3: And so there was a huge crisis of confidence for me,

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Speaker 3: you know that hadn't really been in a fight before. Then.

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Speaker 3: I grew up a pretty you know, pretty PC life,

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Speaker 3: I would say, you know, yeah called tennis player, right,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Like I was, I was

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Speaker 3: like throwing down like uh, you know, in the streets

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Speaker 3: like that. I grew up a pretty nerf ball life.

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Speaker 3: Things changed in my adulthood. I lived a very soft childhood,

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Speaker 3: but not so soft as it. And but yeah, and

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Speaker 3: I took that as a as a motivation, right and

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Speaker 3: ended up training you know when on my holidays back

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Speaker 3: at back home and actually went back to the same gym,

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Speaker 3: but then found like a very serious, you know, old

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Speaker 3: school boxing coach from like Chicago, this guy named Doc Mango,

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Speaker 3: and had trained with him, you know, and on on

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Speaker 3: my on my holidays with like kind of my own

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Speaker 3: little Rocky Montage scenarios. Came back to West Point and

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Speaker 3: started competing in the intramurals and gaining confidence, you know,

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Speaker 3: through through intramurals and trying to face that fear. And

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Speaker 3: by the time of my senior year, I entered the

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Speaker 3: Brigade Open Boxing Championship and and uh beat three or

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Speaker 3: four very formidable opponents and won that thing.

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Speaker 2: Man, Yeah, so I was I love that mid Yeah

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Speaker 2: kind of West Point is my favorite football college team

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Speaker 2: and it's now my favorite boxing Okay, that's what's up

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Speaker 2: right there, Let's go West Point.

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Speaker 3: I think I don't know about TDA, but definitely in

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Speaker 3: my era, the the West Point boxing team was routinely

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Speaker 3: usually like top three or four in the country as

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Speaker 3: well for it for the boxing. So once you win

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Speaker 3: the Brigade Open Boxing championship for a weight class, you

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Speaker 3: actually earned the starting spot typically, or you can compete

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Speaker 3: at least with the incumbent boxing champion boxing first string fighters.

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Speaker 3: So I did actually compete a little bit afterwards for

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Speaker 3: West Point itself, and had had a few few bounds

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Speaker 3: with some of the top top boxers in the country

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Speaker 3: as well, but didn't didn't take it much further than that.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, it was just that whole story for me

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Speaker 3: is a big part of my journey because it started

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Speaker 3: giving me confidence that I was a little bit tougher

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Speaker 3: than I originally thought because I got my ass kicked

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Speaker 3: at West Point in the first year, like I was,

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Speaker 3: I was actually ranked last in the class militarily like

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Speaker 3: a ninety eight out of one ninety eight, you know,

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Speaker 3: like I failed everything man, like I failed land NAV,

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Speaker 3: I failed basic rifleman marktanship. I was a very last one,

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Speaker 3: you know, and on the range. I remember this like,

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Speaker 3: you know, just just basically the worst, you know, and

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Speaker 3: everything was still out of place for me and everything

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Speaker 3: like that. And so you know, after unimpressing all of

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Speaker 3: my classes, getting hazed like like held by all the

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Speaker 3: upper classes through the first year, it's really the comeback

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Speaker 3: through boxing. That started giving me a bit of confidence,

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Speaker 3: you know, that I could do a little bit more.

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Speaker 3: Maybe I wasn't as weak as as everybody thought it was,

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Speaker 3: or even myself at that point, you know. And so

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Speaker 3: that's that started, that really started giving me a bit

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Speaker 3: of you know, that internal sense of self worth that

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Speaker 3: maybe I could maybe I could do a little bit

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Speaker 3: more than I was putting out at that point. So

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Speaker 3: boxing is we touched upon it randomly here, but yeah,

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Speaker 3: box is a huge component of my story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's huge. I mean, and I love it.

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Speaker 2: And you're still training I'm sure all the.

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Speaker 3: Time, right, Yeah, well boxing these days. No, I'm a

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Speaker 3: jiu jitsu guy and the new jiu jitsu for close to

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Speaker 3: thirty years and black belt. I didn't I didn't do

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Speaker 3: it back at school, but I did start started out.

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Speaker 3: I've been in high school, had a big break. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: so I mean box, you know, buction is grade four

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Speaker 3: I think for working out right you were talking about Yeah,

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Speaker 3: mean the cardio is unreal, right, bro, I mean yeah, it's.

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Speaker 2: You become a runner. Boxers become runners. Yeah, I'm looking

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Speaker 2: for like the Arnold arms and body. But I'm like

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Speaker 2: seeing my legs in the mirror. Yeah, and I'm like,

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Speaker 2: jump rope three minutes. Go ahead, give it a try.

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Speaker 2: Try to jump rope for three minutes, and you can

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Speaker 2: reward yourself with three burpies if you skip the rope wrong,

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Speaker 2: if you catch your toe right, just drop you three

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Speaker 2: berpies and then go right back to skipping. See what happened.

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Speaker 2: Just three minutes. Give yourself three minutes of rope time, bro,

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Speaker 2: just three minutes, let alone everything else that we're all

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Speaker 2: putting in at the gym. You know, the coach pulling

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Speaker 2: us over for mittes and he's like, rad, you're six

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Speaker 2: foot five, bro, I don't think you're gonna be rolling

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Speaker 2: too much, So why don't we just have you like

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Speaker 2: rocking poles versus like getting all these rolls going. And

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Speaker 2: I was like, someone's bigger than me, Coach, someone's bigger

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Speaker 2: than me. Okay, they're out there.

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Speaker 3: Gosh, I wouldn't want to get in the ring with you.

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Speaker 3: Six five for sure hit like yeah two seventy damn

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Speaker 3: I hear. I'm sure you hit like a mack truck man.

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Speaker 3: I think I think a lot of people you know,

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Speaker 3: just on this topic, and you understand this obviously spending

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Speaker 3: some time in the ring. Just even ten fifteen pounds

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Speaker 3: makes a huge difference, huge in terms of how somebody

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Speaker 3: hits you right, a huge right. And then you know,

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Speaker 3: it's interesting, you know when you just see people on

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Speaker 3: the streets sometimes mouthing off to people that are a

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Speaker 3: lot bigger than them, and it's like, bro, you have

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Speaker 3: no idea, Like when you hit that guy, like he

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Speaker 3: doesn't feel it, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he could follow evenly like he's just yeah, my sense.

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Speaker 2: Back in the day, I was making a movie and

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Speaker 2: they put us into this karate class here locally and

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Speaker 2: with some other actors, and for three months we were

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Speaker 2: actually taking you know, martial arts, and I was really

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Speaker 2: into it. It wasn't even just a movie thing anymore. It's like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I find a whole inside of myself. And he would

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Speaker 2: call me Riddle because my last name is Raydel r

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Speaker 2: A d. L. And so he'd be like, Riddle, I

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Speaker 2: don't know what I'd do with you because he's like

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Speaker 2: five foot three and he's a black belt sense that

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Speaker 2: he's like. I was like, what would you do to me, coach?

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Speaker 2: How would you get me? Sense? He's like, well, I'd

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Speaker 2: probably climb you and then just hack you down at

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Speaker 2: the neck. You can't.

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Speaker 3: You can't train size man, right, Like that's hard to

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Speaker 3: sort of overcome that with technique. You know, it's not

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Speaker 3: something that you can learn, you know. So but yeah,

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Speaker 3: but I think that boxing and all that teaches you

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Speaker 3: a level humility, you know, around that in terms of

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Speaker 3: understanding size differential, managing distance, right, the distance management and

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Speaker 3: how dangerous that is inside striking distance and the person

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Speaker 3: is large than you. So so anyway, what I share is, look,

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Speaker 3: I'm forty five, you know, like I need my I

291
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Speaker 3: need I need the brain, you know, for for work

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Speaker 3: as a CEO and everything like that. So I think

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Speaker 3: that boxing as I get older, uh, it will have

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Speaker 3: to actually, to be honest, I didn't spar hard or

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Speaker 3: or compete in boxing at the Left West Point, but

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Speaker 3: I mean there was days like especially when I was

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Speaker 3: sparring a weight class up or really even riskier, maybe

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Speaker 3: even two weight classes up. And this is only we're

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Speaker 3: talking like ten pound differences, right yeah, and uh uh,

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Speaker 3: and I fought middleweights. I was one of fifty six

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Speaker 3: back at West Point. I'm two hundred and two rod

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Speaker 3: pounds and now is a older man. But yeah, back

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Speaker 3: then I was a lean mean, you know, one f

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Speaker 3: six and there's a couple of times, man, the one

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Speaker 3: sixty five or one seventy two fighters just rung my

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Speaker 3: bell and sparring, and later on that day I would

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Speaker 3: literally go to class and sit there and then the

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Speaker 3: next thing, I know, like my buddy is like hitting me, like, hey,

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Speaker 3: class is over, we need to get up and go.

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Speaker 3: And it's just like it just blanked me out, you

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Speaker 3: know what I mean, Like it rattled my my my

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Speaker 3: brain in there. You know, it's really it's not good

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Speaker 3: for you to get hit. No, it's not right, it's

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Speaker 3: not good for you. My coach, my old coach.

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Speaker 2: He's like, you know, the ring's right over there, wrath.

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Speaker 2: And I was just like, coach, you guys can't pay

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Speaker 2: me enough to lose whatever brain cells I have left

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Speaker 2: from high school. Okay, that's it. Like you want me

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Speaker 2: to get in there, I get it. But you put

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Speaker 2: the money on the table, the right amount of money.

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Speaker 2: We're putting it out there like that's it. That's it,

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Speaker 2: you know. But at the end of the day, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I have a mouthguard. It sits next to my bed

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Speaker 2: and I've not molded it, and I promised my wife

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Speaker 2: that I wouldn't spar as. You know, like once I

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Speaker 2: mold that thing, I could put it in my mouth,

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Speaker 2: and you know, so I just haven't. I have it

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Speaker 2: right here next to my bed like there it is

329
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Speaker 2: if I ever want to mold it for my teeth.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm also forty seven now, just recently, so

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Speaker 2: it's like I feel you, you know, it's like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I love to learn the craft. I love to learn

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Speaker 2: the sport, you know, and I think that it's just

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Speaker 2: healthy for me. I wish I found boxing like at fifteen, right, right,

335
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Speaker 2: it's also one out there, bro, you know I found

336
00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,240
Speaker 2: the forties, you know, yeah, but they get it all

337
00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:25,040
Speaker 2: the system as well.

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Speaker 3: I mean all that, all the testosterone, all that, all

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Speaker 3: the pentent energy. But what it sure is, right is

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Speaker 3: what I like about being a hobbyist with with jiu

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Speaker 3: jitsu today, right, is that you can actually spar each

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Speaker 3: other one hundred percent striketh right and not rattle each

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Speaker 3: other's brain in the cage and harm each other in

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Speaker 3: that way. Now that's not to say jiu jitsu is

345
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,080
Speaker 3: it's soft. I mean you can very much get hurt,

346
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,360
Speaker 3: but it's more musco skeleton, you know what I mean,

347
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Speaker 3: Like you could.

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Speaker 2: It's rolling right, more like you're like trying to hoist graciot.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so you get all that aggression out right and

350
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Speaker 3: able to practice the techniques at again one hundred percent

351
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Speaker 3: and strength, you know, against a fully resisting opponent, to

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00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:07,600
Speaker 3: refine the technique right again. Disinis management, the timing, you know,

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Speaker 3: all that aspect. So I kind of get that out

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Speaker 3: of my system from that aspect of Still, you know,

355
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Speaker 3: I do love combat sports, but yeah I can't. I

356
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Speaker 3: definitely would not get in the ring and heartspar anybody

357
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Speaker 3: at this at this stage and place in life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let me let me segue your mind now to

359
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,399
Speaker 2: let's go. Okay, you were armor, you left West Point

360
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,959
Speaker 2: and got commissioned as a lieutenant, and then you were

361
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:33,879
Speaker 2: attached to the SF right away or did you have

362
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:37,280
Speaker 2: to go through I mean the riga moreau of getting there?

363
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,040
Speaker 2: Did you get to like the first cap? Who'd you

364
00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:40,320
Speaker 2: go to first? Yeah?

365
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Speaker 3: So when I first started out, I was in Korea.

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Speaker 3: I was with second Armor. So it's just a straight

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Speaker 3: up a tank officer right beatween leader and actually started

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Speaker 3: on one a one Abrams. Right, I'm not sure they're

369
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Speaker 3: in commission anymore. Right, old school like like we were

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Speaker 3: like like the fifty kl on the top. There was

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Speaker 3: this thing called the egg beater right like you you

372
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Speaker 3: would like rotate it around and like elevate the fifty

373
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Speaker 3: cal up and down as the tank commander or stuff

374
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Speaker 3: like that, and uh, it was cool. I remember at

375
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Speaker 3: the time something that they had said was like, I

376
00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:11,720
Speaker 3: was like, how come we don't have the A two's

377
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:13,920
Speaker 3: out here right with all the you know, the awesome

378
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:15,880
Speaker 3: optics andthing like that. And they're like, well, the North

379
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,040
Speaker 3: Koreans only have like t fifty fives. Man, we can

380
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,159
Speaker 3: smoke them with these old old things, you know. But

381
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,639
Speaker 3: that was kind of cool that just from a stance,

382
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:25,919
Speaker 3: just like you know, this here is good enough against

383
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Speaker 3: whatever they have. You're like, dude, this is a rock

384
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Speaker 3: like stick.

385
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Speaker 2: What the hell you're doing? You got thermals on the

386
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:36,320
Speaker 2: A two right that can see feah. It felt that fun.

387
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,920
Speaker 3: It felt like we were in like some old old chaalapee.

388
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:41,480
Speaker 3: But but I kind of like it now and I

389
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,720
Speaker 3: talked to old a tank or something like that. I

390
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:45,199
Speaker 3: kind of feel like I'm, you know, part of that

391
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,960
Speaker 3: kind of more era. Yeah, good question. So sable round

392
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Speaker 3: is I still remember this depleted uranium tipped one hundred

393
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,760
Speaker 3: and twenty millimeters round, right, And what it is is

394
00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:01,920
Speaker 3: it's a penetrator that will actually punch through most other

395
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:02,760
Speaker 3: tanks armor.

396
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:03,320
Speaker 2: Right.

397
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,840
Speaker 3: So the other type of round that in Abram's generally

398
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,639
Speaker 3: fires it is a heat explosive round, right, high explosive,

399
00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,880
Speaker 3: and those are more used for like armored personnel carres,

400
00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,960
Speaker 3: thinner skinned or hum vs because you don't blow it up, right,

401
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:17,800
Speaker 3: but if you need to take out an enemy tank,

402
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:20,560
Speaker 3: like a T ninety was the main one that we

403
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,600
Speaker 3: always were fighting fighting, yeah, exactly, fighting the recal battles

404
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:28,160
Speaker 3: against right, yeah, red you know what I mean. Like,

405
00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:30,480
Speaker 3: and all the simulators were alla like, oh no, it's

406
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,960
Speaker 3: a teen ninety. Oh yeah, because the get that sable

407
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,800
Speaker 3: rounds loaded up, and that's what a sable round is, right.

408
00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,800
Speaker 3: So it's it's a it's a depletated Iranian tip that

409
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,160
Speaker 3: just penetrates through that front armor. And uh, I think

410
00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:48,320
Speaker 3: it's actually recently and I think it's the Ukraine conflict

411
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,000
Speaker 3: that it's actually been really showing that the teen nineties

412
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,040
Speaker 3: actually not not that it was all made up to

413
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,160
Speaker 3: be like the the American sable rounds and or even

414
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,440
Speaker 3: NATO sable rounds just cutting through it like a knife

415
00:19:58,440 --> 00:19:59,200
Speaker 3: through butter, right.

416
00:19:59,119 --> 00:19:59,840
Speaker 2: So it's going through it.

417
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:01,640
Speaker 3: And so yeah, just was that.

418
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,200
Speaker 2: They're like in there, like what was that? Comrade. He's like, bro,

419
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:07,160
Speaker 2: do we now have a hole through our tank?

420
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:08,520
Speaker 3: We are dead?

421
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, We're dead? Yeah yeah, just stop now right, go

422
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,640
Speaker 2: back to video games, guys. Okay, just just lay down

423
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,880
Speaker 2: your tanks and go home Russia. Okay, if you listen

424
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:20,560
Speaker 2: to this message, that's right.

425
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,680
Speaker 3: So yeah, but yeah, and then but back in the

426
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,160
Speaker 3: day when we were sitting on the you knows, as

427
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,359
Speaker 3: the brochure attracted me this, yeah, right before we decided

428
00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:32,119
Speaker 3: our post, right before nine eleven. So I was class

429
00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:33,720
Speaker 3: of two thousand and one, which I considered to be

430
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,560
Speaker 3: the real class of nine eleven for a four point right,

431
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,440
Speaker 3: because we were the we're actually the longest continuous combat

432
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,560
Speaker 3: class in history west point right, straight years right, So.

433
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:44,560
Speaker 2: And that hit us all differently. At our age, you know,

434
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,760
Speaker 2: you were like twenty two years old, twenty three years old,

435
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,600
Speaker 2: like I am now ready to go, right if anyone

436
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:53,639
Speaker 2: is ready to go for such a situation.

437
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,679
Speaker 3: Okay, great point rat So that that's part of like

438
00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,000
Speaker 3: when I joined West Point in ninety seven, it was

439
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,720
Speaker 3: like Clinton, right, like people were talking about kiss but

440
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,360
Speaker 3: is kind of it's like this smattering of whatever's going

441
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,680
Speaker 3: on there, and you know, barely anybody's paying attention to it.

442
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,280
Speaker 3: It's cold War's over, right, People are talking about how

443
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,200
Speaker 3: it's the end of war. Right, you know we won whatever.

444
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,280
Speaker 3: The Russians are our friends. Now we were in debt, right, yeah,

445
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:21,160
Speaker 3: we're above the tech tech one point or was going off.

446
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:22,879
Speaker 3: You know, economy is on fire.

447
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 2: Right.

448
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 3: Clinton has downsized half the army, right, people actually were

449
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:28,639
Speaker 3: joining I remember when I was being recruited to go

450
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,760
Speaker 3: to West Point, and you got to serve five years, right,

451
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 3: they're actually saying as part of the pitch, yeah, you've

452
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,720
Speaker 3: got to serve five years, but since the army is downsizing,

453
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,119
Speaker 3: you probably only have to serve two. And actually, if

454
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:40,480
Speaker 3: you really push, you might be able to get a

455
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 3: waiver and just not serve at all. Like it was

456
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 3: actually part of the story of like, hey, don't recreate

457
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:47,800
Speaker 3: it may not be yeah, like because.

458
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:48,800
Speaker 2: That wasn't a good place right now.

459
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Like a kid as a kid, Like I

460
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 3: just wanted to go to West Point because I thought

461
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:55,200
Speaker 3: West Point was cool. I didn't actually want to be

462
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:56,720
Speaker 3: in the Army, you know what I mean, Like the.

463
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,560
Speaker 2: Army is cool. Yeah, yeah, well you know it is cool.

464
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,560
Speaker 2: I okay, I see that cool you know kid looking

465
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 2: at West Point because I see that castle. You know,

466
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 2: I'm just right.

467
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:09,480
Speaker 3: Right, and that's where I'm going to prove myself and

468
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 3: being you know what I mean, I'm going to do

469
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 3: something so hard that nobody can ever talk shit to

470
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 3: me ever again, right, That's what I was thinking about

471
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 3: at that time. I was thinking like, oh wow, this

472
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,399
Speaker 3: place is hardcore. It's different from any other university. Oh

473
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,560
Speaker 3: and there's this other thing called the Army afterwards that

474
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 3: I have to go do. But especially again in the

475
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 3: in the late nineties, I'm thinking it's peacetime. You know.

476
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 3: I'm looking at the post. Look, I'm from California. And

477
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,240
Speaker 3: then a lot of the locations don't seem attractive to me, right,

478
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,639
Speaker 3: like for Polk and you know these you know, bending

479
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 3: and these places. But oh hey, look Hawaii. Maybe I

480
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,199
Speaker 3: could go to Hawaii. That would be yeah, you know,

481
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 3: I'll get a I'll get a motorcycle, you know what

482
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,640
Speaker 3: I mean, and a cruise round and like the beach right,

483
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 3: beach adventure overseas, you know what I mean. Like this

484
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 3: is my my thought process, you know. And I'm gonna

485
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 3: be I'm going to join the computer branch of the Army,

486
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,360
Speaker 3: which is would be the Signal Core, right, and I'll

487
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,959
Speaker 3: learn about networks and I'll come back and work at

488
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 3: Apple and you know, be a programmer in a cube

489
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 3: farm somewhere. Right. That was that was my mindset before

490
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 3: I went to West Point, Yes, and when nine to

491
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 3: eleven happened, to your point, right at this point, now

492
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 3: it's you know, I'm not like some highly trained you know,

493
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 3: weapon you know, or something like that coming out of

494
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:22,160
Speaker 3: West Point, But I'm a commissioned US Army officer, right,

495
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 3: I mean, like you know what I mean, Like, if

496
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 3: it's not me, who's going to go fight at this

497
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,400
Speaker 3: point in time? Who who is supposed to go fight

498
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 3: at the time?

499
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:30,440
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Who were supposed to be

500
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 2: the lieutenants?

501
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,679
Speaker 3: Obviously I am qualified according to the US Army at

502
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:35,920
Speaker 3: this point right.

503
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 2: At that past time in your life, yep, ready, yeah,

504
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:39,199
Speaker 2: I was.

505
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 3: Ready, right, So nine to eleven actually changed my entire

506
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 3: mindset of not using West Point and the US Army

507
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 3: for my own personal self interests. But I really did

508
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 3: actually change my mindset the time to become a volunteer,

509
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,680
Speaker 3: right because I was actually very pissed about nine to eleven.

510
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 3: You know, I grew up in California, but West Point

511
00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 3: was one hour north of New York City. You know,

512
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 3: I was there almost every weekend, trying to pretend to

513
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 3: be a regular college student. You know, I have a

514
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 3: lot of great memories down there, and I was very upset,

515
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 3: you know, when the planes flew into in those twin towers,

516
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,919
Speaker 3: and of course the Pentagon as well. So so that

517
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 3: really to your point, you know, nine to eleven and

518
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 3: being the class nine to eleven changed me entirely about

519
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 3: what I was doing with my time as US Army officer.

520
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 3: And so again, to use another Harry Potter reference, but

521
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 3: I looked at trying out for Special Forces. Its kind

522
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,679
Speaker 3: of like the sorting hat, you know at Harbor Woods. Right, Like,

523
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 3: my mindset was like, Okay, I'm ready to I'm ready

524
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 3: to fight, and I've joined armor because I thought tanks

525
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 3: were cool, but I'm not sure that's what's actually happening

526
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 3: in Afghanistan and Iraq right now? Is that really what

527
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 3: the main thing is? How About there's this thing called

528
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,239
Speaker 3: Special Forces. It looks like it might be a right

529
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 3: fit for me at this point in time, Like I've

530
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 3: gone to ranger school, you know, the boxing thing. I'm

531
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,159
Speaker 3: a little bit tougher than I thought it was. You know,

532
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 3: I'm starting to realize that maybe you know something with it. Yeah,

533
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 3: I'm realized I've got a little bit more. Maybe I

534
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 3: could make make it into into into SF. But to

535
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 3: me at the time, those guys seem to just walk

536
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 3: on water as well. But I decided to go try

537
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:15,120
Speaker 3: out more non not not from the sense of being like, hey,

538
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 3: I'm good enough to be there, so that's that's what

539
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 3: I want to do. But more let me go to

540
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,919
Speaker 3: selection and hey, Army, you tell me if I'm supposed

541
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:25,919
Speaker 3: to be here, you sort me out. Because if I

542
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:27,360
Speaker 3: can make it through this and you tell me I'm

543
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 3: supposed to be here, clearly that's where I'm supposed to

544
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 3: serve because so few people can make it through this thing.

545
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 3: If I make it through, then that is where my

546
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 3: duty is and responsibility is to serve. Right That was

547
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 3: my mindset after nine to eleven why I tried out

548
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 3: for SF so so part of it, though, too, was

549
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 3: that like this is an era where the Internet is

550
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 3: not really the Internet we know today, of course, and

551
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 3: like anything I could find on SF was just like misinformation,

552
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 3: to be honest with, startain career. Like there's like these

553
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 3: weird websites that people had created, like fans of SF

554
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 3: and had all this like weird MySpace looking pages. That

555
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 3: was the extent of the information you could find on

556
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 3: SF in like two thousand and two, you know. And

557
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 3: so I'm in Korea and I'm at a bookstore in Seoul,

558
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 3: just hanging out, and then I see a guy with

559
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 3: all silver hair and a suit, looking very dapper, and

560
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 3: he's got the crossed arrows, which I recognized the insignia

561
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 3: of Special Forces on a pin on his lapel of

562
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 3: his suit. So I roll up to him and I'm like, hey, sir,

563
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 3: you know, my name's Potent G and you I'm trying

564
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 3: to learn about Special Forces. I know he's having insignia.

565
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 3: Can I buy you a cup of coffee? And you know,

566
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 3: if you know anything about this? And he's kind of impressed,

567
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 3: and I, you know, kind of you know, rolled up

568
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 3: to him like this in the bookstore and he's like, yeah,

569
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,199
Speaker 3: let's sit down, and in fact, I'll buy you the

570
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 3: cup of coffee. This turns out to be Colonel Rick

571
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 3: Thomas Okay, who is the Chief of Staff of Special

572
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,679
Speaker 3: Operations Command, Korea and later becomes the first Group Special

573
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 3: Forces Commander. Right, and so Rick Thomas sits down, we

574
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 3: chat for you know, ten to fifteen minutes on. You know,

575
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 3: this is like a Sunday in a soul bookstore. And

576
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 3: he goes, you know what, lieutenant, you're so interested, you

577
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 3: know about SF We've got this two week exercise. You know,

578
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 3: why don't you come down and figure out how you

579
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 3: can come down and volunteer and just be like a

580
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 3: staff officer and just home out and so I you know,

581
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 3: when you do your hardship tours in Korea up on

582
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 3: the on DMZ, you get a trip home every week

583
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 3: every once a year, and they pay for your ticket

584
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 3: back home and everything. I took my holiday and went

585
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 3: to go volunteer at this exercise, right, to go work

586
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 3: for Colonel Thomas. And uh, pretty quickly they realized I'd

587
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 3: do a little bit more than just get coffee for

588
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 3: the senior officers there and actually actually they gave me

589
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,360
Speaker 3: a joint award at the end for writing whatever good

590
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,679
Speaker 3: good good operations orders and things like that. But so

591
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 3: after that he offered me a role. He said, Hey,

592
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:53,919
Speaker 3: if you're up on your your tour up there in

593
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 3: your your first year, I'll talk to your pent commander

594
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 3: and see if you can come down and essentially be

595
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 3: an intern. Add a unit called Detachment Korea, okay, Special

596
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 3: Force Attachment Korea, and it's a very unique special forces

597
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 3: team that's been around I think since the fifties. And

598
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 3: it's all team like former team sergeants, right, So it's

599
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 3: a team of basically all e eights who have already

600
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 3: been team sergeants, right, each one of our signs. Yeah,

601
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 3: they're like they're like the top of the food chain

602
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 3: of of the you know, the action guys. The teams

603
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 3: are the.

604
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 2: Radio bro go ahead, right.

605
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 3: And so each one of these guys are assigned to

606
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 3: a Korean Special Force brigade as an advisor and facilitating

607
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 3: the joint operations between Green Berets and Korean special Forces.

608
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 3: And it's all intertwined in the in the Korean theater

609
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 3: in case on the kicks off North Korea. What's going

610
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 3: to happen there? So I basically go down there, and

611
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 3: I in turn essentially as the like I'm the executive officer.

612
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 3: They make up a position for an exemant officer but

613
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 3: basically an intern for all intensive purposes. But that's where

614
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 3: I got exposed uniquely as as as as well anybody

615
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 3: whether enlisted or officer, but particularly it's an officer to

616
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,719
Speaker 3: see something like that as an armor officer and being attached.

617
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 3: So I was in an airborne unit. You know, I'm

618
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 3: wearing like a Maroon beret as an armor officer in

619
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 3: this unique Special Force of Korea detachment. And got to

620
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 3: live in Seoul too for close to a year, which

621
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 3: was awesome, and I had so much fun. I'm like

622
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 3: twenty three years old, you know, twenty four years old,

623
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 3: just hanging out with a bunch of s F guys. You know,

624
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 3: they're they're like basically running me through the ringer as well.

625
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 3: Some of them were hazing me, some of them are

626
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 3: taking me under the wing. But I could do a

627
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 3: lot of stuff during that time. I was jumping out

628
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 3: of hot air balloons in Korea, I was calling in

629
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 3: we were we had like a ten's come at one

630
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 3: time and I'm like learning how to call for fire

631
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 3: and we're dropping bombs on like a Korea, Korean island.

632
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 2: They were really OJT and you dude, oh yeah it.

633
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 3: Was awesome man, I'm training really yeah.

634
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 2: Oh.

635
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 3: I got to go with them to like Okinawa, like

636
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 3: with the dive guys, and I was like, you know,

637
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 3: I couldn't go on the actual dive operations like the

638
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,239
Speaker 3: combat dive training and stuff, but I could have go

639
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 3: and see what I was all like and did all

640
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 3: like the they call it the surface swimming yeah up here. Yeah,

641
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 3: just just seeing how it all went down, you know.

642
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 3: And you know, in a SF, so much of it

643
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 3: is like there is like a strong aspect of networking

644
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 3: and reputation, right. They always say like you're the day

645
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 3: you start selectioning your reputation, your name starts in in

646
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 3: uh in s F. And as a lieutenant showing him

647
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 3: an Okinawa was meeting like some of the some of

648
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 3: the n c O s and stuff like that would

649
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 3: become teams that were team sergists by that time. I

650
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 3: showed up as a team leader and people are like, hey,

651
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 3: I remember you. You know you're that guy that came

652
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 3: from Korea and helped out you're you know, a good

653
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 3: you're a good teammate at the time, or a good dude,

654
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 3: you know whatever, and that all that all started playing

655
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 3: into you know, I think, you know, some some some

656
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 3: measure of positivity of of of my reputation. So but anyway,

657
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 3: so it was a really unique experience when you're asking

658
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 3: me about like where I got into SF and everything, like,

659
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 3: you know, as I actually got a preview through that way,

660
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 3: and so once I kind of that that union saw everything,

661
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 3: oh man, then I got sold all the way through, right,

662
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 3: because then I actually realized that this was this whole

663
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 3: thing was about unconventional warfare and could leverage the aspect

664
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 3: of of me being a minority having that ethnic cultural

665
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 3: cultural kind of adaptability or or or how do you say,

666
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,959
Speaker 3: just like navit being able to navigate you know, two cultures,

667
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 3: language r.

668
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 2: You know, like showing that anybody can do it from

669
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 2: any culture, Like it doesn't have to just be somebody specific.

670
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 2: It's like anybody can put their mind to it and

671
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 2: no matter their shape, color, or you know, well their shape,

672
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 2: but still feel it still a yeah, yeah, a little

673
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 2: bit a little bit, especially at that point, but I

674
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 2: feel it and and yeah, I mean one of the

675
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 2: baddest SF guys on my dad's team. His last name

676
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 2: was Kim, and he was Asian dude, and he was

677
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 2: about five foot six and he was coming He was

678
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 2: a little dude though, and he was coming down on

679
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 2: a halo jump and we were all at the airport

680
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 2: watching everybody do their jumps. And I was a little kid,

681
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 2: and I remember he came down but the wind had

682
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 2: picked him up he was still light, and just slammed

683
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 2: him right onto the ground. I remember saw my dad

684
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 2: his guys run so fast because they had already come

685
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 2: down from like regular style PLF jumps, and then he

686
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 2: was just coming down the halo style and then they're

687
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 2: all watching him and then the wind just picked him

688
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 2: up like forty feet above the ground and slammed him

689
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 2: right down. They were hauling. Yeah, Kim, this is for you, bro.

690
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 2: I know you're out there acting in Utah. If you

691
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 2: listened to this, what's up?

692
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 3: I hope we were recovering from that. That is very dangerous.

693
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 3: It's all about the landing, right, And then it sounds

694
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 3: like got he caught a pocket of air And yeah,

695
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 3: people get really hurt, you know that way, right, he.

696
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:38,959
Speaker 2: Was close to because he was like to me, I

697
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 2: think he was probably thirty to fifty feet up off

698
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 2: the ground before he was going to land. And then

699
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 2: that he was probably like coming down pulling on his

700
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 2: strip and picked him up and dropped him, hit him hard.

701
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 3: There's there's nothing, there's nothing, there's nothing just perfectly fine

702
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 3: about you know, jumping out of aircraft. And we're not

703
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 3: supposed to be all except the aircraft, right, yeah, we're

704
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 3: supp up there as a human beings, you know what

705
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 3: I mean, like from a nature standpoint. And but yeah,

706
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 3: so back to the whole decade story. So the first

707
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 3: time I actually went to selection, I got sent from

708
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 3: Korea to selection, right, and I actually failed the first time.

709
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 3: And that's the longer story itself that I talked about

710
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 3: the book. But I failed the Star exam, right, I

711
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 3: wasn't very I just mentioned that I failed the land

712
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 3: navigation exam at west Point and like barely past that,

713
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 3: which is like basically a scavenger kids hunt, you know.

714
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 3: By comparison, even from La dav courses, the Star exam

715
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 3: is really hard, right, it's you know, I think now

716
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 3: in the jung I saw something in the news of

717
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 3: the jungle warfare courses back I think in Hawaii that

718
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 3: was at the time considered to be the hardest LANDAV

719
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 3: exam was the Jungle Warfare course but in Panama, but

720
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 3: they had shut that down by the time I showed up.

721
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 3: So but people always kind of qualified that the Star

722
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 3: Exam was the second hardest to that one, even though

723
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 3: I shut down. So in theory, what they're saying is

724
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 3: the Star Exam was the hardest landav examiner in the

725
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 3: in the Army at the time. And yeah, and I

726
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 3: got my ask and I didn't pass right, and uh

727
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 3: and actually worse, and it's a longer story in my book,

728
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 3: but I actually lost my rifle right on the on

729
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 3: the land of exam. I had strapped it to the

730
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 3: back of my rucksack. I was going through one of

731
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 3: those nasty draws at at on the Star Exam. I mean,

732
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 3: these are like the the thorns are like as long

733
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 3: as like a man's finger, you know, coming out of

734
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 3: it's like triple concertina wires. You get through this and

735
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,760
Speaker 3: it I mean you're fighting through these draws for literally hours,

736
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 3: just feeling like you can only move an inch at

737
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 3: a time. There's cases during the train up or during

738
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 3: the star exam where people will actually get stuck in

739
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 3: the draws and they'll need to pull out like the

740
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 3: Kio kaya was or the ISR infrared you know, kind

741
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,839
Speaker 3: of mission to see and they'll just see like these

742
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 3: wanna be Green Beret you know students right, just stuck

743
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 3: in the draw and just paralyzed. They've just been trying

744
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 3: to move through it that they've just gotten entangled so

745
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 3: much they can't move and it literally becomes a like

746
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,359
Speaker 3: a safety situation from a survival standpoint of to get there,

747
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 3: to get to the guy, uh, especially.

748
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 2: In and you have your ruck on your back, right,

749
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 2: you guys are all rocky out yeah, yeah, full kit

750
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 2: and kaboodle, and you're trying to like just move through

751
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 2: something and it's just every time you move it's probably getting.

752
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 3: To describe it, it's like a it's like it's like

753
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 3: some type of like wicked you know, type of trap,

754
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, like a like a maze

755
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 3: trap of things that are just entwining. And and by

756
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 3: the way, like this is oftentimes in the pitch black right, darkness, right,

757
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 3: because there's no lights around in your sta mill of

758
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 3: the woods and you can't even see as the thorns

759
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 3: are coming in like coming at your eyes, you know

760
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 3: what I mean, and your your nose and your mouth

761
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 3: and you know you can't even see this and it's

762
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 3: coming in at you. And uh uh yeah. So I

763
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 3: just so I bring that up because as I was

764
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 3: trying to move through this draw, I decided to take

765
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 3: my my shovel, right, they called the E tool, right

766
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 3: that the foldable shovel that you carry, and uh I

767
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 3: had on the tip of one of my decade mentors,

768
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:01,800
Speaker 3: Tony Bell, had gone to a mill in Fayetteville, and

769
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 3: I had him sharpen the E tool sides right, so

770
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 3: you're not allowed to bring a machete, okay to selection right,

771
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 3: and for this exact purpose, because you could just cut

772
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 3: through the draws the machee like you definitely in a

773
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 3: normal situation would not try to go through the draw

774
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 3: without a without a machete, right, You've got to cut

775
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 3: through all that. And so so I had the E

776
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 3: tool sharpened right on the side, so it's kind of

777
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 3: like kind of like a makeshift machete, right, And so

778
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 3: I pulled that out right, and I started hacking through

779
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 3: the draw and I'm making good time, but you know,

780
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 3: because I'm usually with full pans. That's why I strapped

781
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 3: my rifle top of my rucksack and you know, as

782
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 3: tight as I could.

783
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 2: Right.

784
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 3: Horrible move, horrible move right. And so at one point, actually, uh,

785
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 3: there's a big branch and I was hacking at it,

786
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 3: hacking it, trying to get through. You know, I missed

787
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 3: the branch and I just buried my shuffle straight into

788
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,439
Speaker 3: my shin. I saw the scar on my knee now,

789
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 3: but it basically like literally buried it into my own

790
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 3: leg and I just cream like crazy right in the

791
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 3: middle of this draw by myself is bleeding all the place.

792
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 3: I actually had a good buddy later when we're circling

793
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 3: up and I was telling the story, It's like, dude,

794
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 3: I heard you. I thought that was like a wounded animal,

795
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 3: like some like like a wounded animal got attacked by

796
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 3: like an animal fight happened or something. Yeah, because we're

797
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 3: like way the hell no nowhere out here, you know,

798
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 3: and so I had to. You know, I basically crawled

799
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 3: through the draw the other side, patched myself up a

800
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 3: little bit, and then realized my rifle was gone, right,

801
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 3: and I'm like no, right, because it literally just like

802
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 3: spent like two hours trying to get through that thing,

803
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,720
Speaker 3: and uh, you know, feudally look for it really quick,

804
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 3: you know, in the in the draw definitely, I was

805
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 3: like realized it's gone, right, there's no way going to

806
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 3: find that. And as I realized that I've just failed

807
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 3: to the star exam and it was the last try

808
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 3: it the third day, I'm like, all right, I'm done, right,

809
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna be I didn't make it right. The

810
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 3: sorting hat sorted me. I'm not gonna be I'm not

811
00:37:57,719 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 3: gonna be green, Bret, Okay, all right, I'm just gonna

812
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 3: go back to Korea and just be, you know, get

813
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 3: mocked by all the all these senior team sergeants and

814
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,720
Speaker 3: and that just invested a year with me. I reached

815
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 3: down to grab my map to to go back to

816
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:15,359
Speaker 3: the base, and my cargo pocket it's split open and

817
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 3: the map is actually gone too, So I don't even

818
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 3: have a map on a land navigation exam. Right, I

819
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 3: lost the map, you know, I mean what a what

820
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:28,280
Speaker 3: a I mean like talk about frustration, right, it's just failure.

821
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 3: Just it's humiliating as well, right, law Murphy beyond Murphy

822
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 3: Murphy times three. Right, I don't have a I'm supposed

823
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 3: to be a soldier, right, I don't have a rifle.

824
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 2: I don't have a map.

825
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 3: Right, I don't even know what like, I don't even

826
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 3: know what direction cardinal direction the base I've gotta I've

827
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 3: got a MASHETI in case, you know, some animal comes by,

828
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 3: I'm you know, I'll be able to kind of defend

829
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 3: myself with it. So yeah, so I don't even know

830
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 3: what cardinal direction the base camp's at, right, So I

831
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 3: just kind of just grab my ruck and just wander,

832
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 3: you know, just start wandering any random direction, and just

833
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 3: by pure luck, I wander, like after about an hour

834
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:09,839
Speaker 3: straight into the Star Exam base camp.

835
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 2: Right.

836
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 3: That's just just random as well when you think about it, right,

837
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 3: because the thing is huge, right, It's we're talking about

838
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 3: like thirty forty kilometers of space. And so I wander

839
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 3: straight into the base camp. And it's about daybreak because

840
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 3: Star Exam starts at like you know, wander two am

841
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 3: or something like that, and they all take you to

842
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 3: these like random places and then they just give you

843
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 3: one point, right, and then you set out on that point.

844
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 3: It's usually like eight to ten kilometers away through all

845
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 3: sorts of nastay terrain. When you get to that point,

846
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 3: it's usually it's a Special Force instructor who's got like

847
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 3: a camouflage tent and you're hanging out hiding in there.

848
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 3: And I point that out because a lot of the

849
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:48,839
Speaker 3: regular US Army Land average education exams, there's nobody sitting there.

850
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 3: It's like a it's like a big sign that's like

851
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 3: posted on top of the tree. And sometimes it's even

852
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 3: like really high up so you can really see it

853
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 3: far away as well, and sometimes even fluorescent orange like

854
00:39:58,520 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 3: some of the courses have been on.

855
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like.

856
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 3: Easy, you know what I mean, Like once you get

857
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,320
Speaker 3: within like a couple hundred meters of it, you usually

858
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 3: can spot it right. You're like, oh, it's right there, right.

859
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 3: Not to mention that there's usually a lot of other

860
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:11,439
Speaker 3: people going at the same points the way that they

861
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 3: arrange it, so you kind of see like other people

862
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 3: around you, and you kind of quietly cheat off each

863
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 3: other and just kind of see like, oh he's going

864
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,320
Speaker 3: that way, I'm gonna go this way. You're like totally

865
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 3: alone in the Star exam, right, So you got to

866
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 3: walk right on top of the point, and that the

867
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 3: instructor is trying to keep quiet too, right, he can

868
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 3: hear you chopping around, cursing, trying to get through all

869
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 3: those and he's just sitting there just laughing at you,

870
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 3: reading like a Maxim magazine or something like that or

871
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 3: and anyway, so kind of going all to place by

872
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 3: the star exam. But when I when I get get

873
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 3: into the base camp, you know, I realized that it's

874
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 3: about daybreak, right, so it's the sun's coming out because

875
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 3: we started so early in the morning. And I go

876
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 3: knock on the hut to tell him that I failed, right,

877
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 3: and I expect them to put me in this like

878
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 3: this thing called the Quitter's corral where they rope this

879
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 3: area off. You sit in front of everyone that's a

880
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 3: big loser when you either quit or we're Yeah, it's

881
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 3: very humiliating, right, This is this is funny, right because

882
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 3: it's so not today's nerve ball, you know, Like I

883
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 3: don't know, I keep on hearing about these weird things

884
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 3: in the army today, but I just know what like

885
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 3: the the private sectors like and all this like DEI stuff.

886
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 3: This is like the opposite of trying to like make

887
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 3: everybody feel good and included, right Like, it's like you failed,

888
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 3: you sit in front of everyone, we humiliate you, right

889
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,359
Speaker 3: like everything about specifically.

890
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 2: The rope says you sit behind the rope, yes.

891
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 3: Like you if you if you thought you were a

892
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 3: loser before, let's make it really clear use a little

893
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 3: or you yeaheah, Let's let's make it absolutely clear to

894
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:44,959
Speaker 3: you that we think you're a loser, right oh man.

895
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 3: And so so I'm expecting that I'm gonna have to

896
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 3: sit in this this crowd, right And one of the instructors,

897
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 3: one of the actually the nicer instructors, comes out and

898
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 3: it's like, hey, what are you doing?

899
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 2: Man?

900
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 3: Like the starting sampling half over, And I tell him, like,

901
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 3: you know, I lost my rifle and my my uh map.

902
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 3: And I thought he was just laugh and just like,

903
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 3: you know, uh, send me a lot of crowd.

904
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 2: What are you doing?

905
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 3: But he actually yeah, but he actually is like, hey, actually,

906
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 3: you know what, even though I remember this very specifically,

907
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 3: he's like, even even though you're an officer, I've been

908
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 3: watching you and you're a good teammate because I was

909
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 3: helping I was trying to help out a lot of

910
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 3: people during the during selection and and uh and all

911
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 3: this stuff, and he's like, you know what, I was

912
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 3: actually hoping that you're gonna you were going to pass.

913
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 3: And he sees that nobody's looking. He goes back grass,

914
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 3: you know, the rifle, grasp another map. He's like, go right,

915
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 3: and I was like, oh ship, And so I had

916
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 3: another least on life, right, so I should start a

917
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 3: hauling ass right, your care to my first points, right, yeah?

918
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 3: And man like I'm going it's like, oh my god,

919
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 3: maybe I'll another chance, right, I mean, like, you know,

920
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 3: we've got I've only got like a few more hours, right, Yeah.

921
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 3: If I just run, you know, I'm not going to

922
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 3: follow any discipline because I just got to just.

923
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,919
Speaker 2: Take huge risk because yeah, and get it done right.

924
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,360
Speaker 3: And I don't forget I've got like a I like

925
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 3: this gash wound on my leg, right, so I'm just

926
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 3: like limping. And by the way, this is like two

927
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 3: and a half weeks in the selection, right, that's day

928
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 3: in day out, right. This is this is the army, right,

929
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 3: seven days. Yeah, it's just seven days a week, right,

930
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 3: there's no weekends, you know, like at some other soft

931
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 3: you know, schools and stuff like that, Like this is

932
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 3: just straight through four hours of sleep or lesson night,

933
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 3: two meals a day. You're hallucinating, You're a mountain. You know,

934
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 3: you're you malnutrition, You're losing like ten, you know, ten

935
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 3: twenty thirty pounds start this whole thing. And yeah, I'm

936
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 3: just exhausted right as you're you're heading out and anyway,

937
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 3: so I tell much, I go go for it, you know,

938
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 3: try to skip to the end of the story. Were

939
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 3: basically at the last point that I need to get to.

940
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 3: I've got just a few minutes. I'm so close, so

941
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 3: I can't find it. I throw down the ruck, climb

942
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:50,839
Speaker 3: this tree, right, which you're not allowed to do, right,

943
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 3: and again, I leave my rifles out there on convench tree. Yeah, unconventionable,

944
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 3: like a monkey. Just climb with this tree. Maybe I'll

945
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 3: just see the point, you know, everyone here, Actually I do.

946
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 3: I see the instructor taking the piss right, and I'm like, yes,

947
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 3: it's like one hundred and fifty meters away. I got it.

948
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 3: I jumped down. I started running towards him, and then

949
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,240
Speaker 3: the guy like literally, why he's taking the piss is like, candidate,

950
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 3: sit down, time, time's up right, It's been up, so

951
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. And and so I failed

952
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 3: selection the first time with my tailgion like so close,

953
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 3: you know, and even with all the crazy shit that

954
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 3: just happened that story and went back to Korea, that

955
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 3: was one of the worst like ways to return to

956
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 3: that team, you know what I mean. Now my closest

957
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 3: mentor there, Tony Bell was just kind of like, you know,

958
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 3: it's just like he was disappointed, but he didn't like

959
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 3: writ me. There was like some other the dudes are

960
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 3: there that I didn't really like, like that there's an

961
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 3: officer in the unit anyway, but many they were brutal man.

962
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 3: I mean, they're like they had already heard you know,

963
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 3: through their their connections at yeah thero'ugh the Grapevine. They're like,

964
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 3: you lost your rifle. They're like, I mean not even

965
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 3: I mean, guys are not exactly the softest people as

966
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 3: you might imasgine right, They're pretty direct with their feedback

967
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:06,320
Speaker 3: and they're just like not even like oh yeah it

968
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 3: could have happened or you know, try again or anything.

969
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 3: They're just like you suck, you know what I mean,

970
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 3: Like really yeah, yeah, like there's nothing to all to say,

971
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 3: Like how do you lose your rifle. That's the stupidest

972
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 3: thing I've ever heard. It's like yeah, they're like yeah,

973
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 3: it's like they're like, thank god you didn't didn't pass.

974
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 3: You're an idiot, Like you could we could have been

975
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,319
Speaker 3: on a team together, Like oh my god, you're such

976
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,479
Speaker 3: an idiot. And so so that that was actually a huge,

977
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 3: obviously huge to feed and humility, and also it's just

978
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 3: such a long flight to think about it as well,

979
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 3: right from the North Caroline all the way back to

980
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 3: Korea and you know, and everything like that. So when

981
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 3: I left Korea, continuing in my in my career, then

982
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 3: I went to the Infantry Advanced Course for Captains at

983
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 3: for Benning. And when I was down there, I was

984
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,320
Speaker 3: just like just just you know, they don't let officers

985
00:45:55,320 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 3: go twice usually, Okay, that's the conventional Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

986
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:02,359
Speaker 3: you won't hear like a lot of people actually when

987
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 3: they hear the story, they're like, what, how's that possible

988
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 3: officer allowed to go twice? Well, I started when I

989
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 3: started realizing I wanted to try a second time. I

990
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 3: started calling the branch office right and immediately they're like, no,

991
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:16,959
Speaker 3: officers don't get a second chance. Don't don't call back.

992
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 3: And then I was I through like the email system.

993
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 3: I found a civilian lady's name that I realized I

994
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 3: worked in that office, and I called her instead, and

995
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:31,840
Speaker 3: she was just like a friendly lady, right. I just

996
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 3: kind of start building a rapport with her phone, just

997
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:37,439
Speaker 3: kind of like hey, you know, like trying to figure

998
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 3: out the slot, you know what I mean, and then

999
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 3: sort of like just kind of like like not calling

1000
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:44,319
Speaker 3: her repeated Like I called her like coming in like

1001
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 3: two or three times to ask them questions and try

1002
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 3: to see if I sneak my way back in. And

1003
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 3: actually the officer who had the major, who had basically

1004
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 3: told me that I couldn't come back the first time

1005
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 3: that like the second or third time i'd called this lady,

1006
00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 3: picked up the phone and was like, Lieutenant you I

1007
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,399
Speaker 3: already told you can't come back, and the like hangs up, right,

1008
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 3: And so then I thought it was done right, And

1009
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:06,320
Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, okay, I better not get in actual

1010
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 3: trouble here, right because it's major, you know whatever. Like

1011
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,359
Speaker 3: I just thought I was trying to be persistent, you know, like,

1012
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 3: and uh, fast forward another like month or two, and

1013
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 3: then that major emailed me, is like, you know what

1014
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 3: lieutelling you you're a lucky fucking day rights dropped out

1015
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 3: a selection. There's no slot here. If you want, I've

1016
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 3: got it for you right here, if you show up

1017
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:27,399
Speaker 3: and like this is like right when the evanced course

1018
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,319
Speaker 3: it ended for me. So I was like, if you

1019
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 3: show up here like in in in three weeks, you

1020
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 3: can have that, you can have a slot. And I

1021
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,359
Speaker 3: was like, oh damn. And so I had actually been

1022
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 3: just from a personal standpoint, because the Star exam and

1023
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 3: kicked my ass, and I realized that I was so

1024
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 3: bad at land navigation. You know, a couple a few

1025
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 3: of the weekends when I was at Benning, I grabbed

1026
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 3: one of the like the Benning you know maps, you know,

1027
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 3: and topographical maps, and I was going out there practicing

1028
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 3: what I hear. So what what they don't a lot

1029
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 3: of people don't tell you is like during selection they

1030
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 3: actually run some of the best training I'd ever received

1031
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 3: on land navigation, actually the very best training I'd ever

1032
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 3: seen on land navigation. Right, I never really got trained

1033
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 3: very well before I was taught by cadets, you know

1034
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 3: what I mean, don't know anything. And and so I

1035
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:12,959
Speaker 3: learned a lot while I was there, but you didn't

1036
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 3: have the chance to like let it process and sinking,

1037
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. Like it was just it's

1038
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 3: like you get taught and then you immediately have to

1039
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 3: implement it on a test, right, and so it's.

1040
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 2: Like it's like what's a peak, what's a valley? You

1041
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 2: know you can you know what I'm saying.

1042
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:31,800
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, exactly, but like really like really letting

1043
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 3: like mastering it and really understanding the principles, you know

1044
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,839
Speaker 3: what I mean, Like, you know, they have a lot

1045
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 3: of things that would could be considered a very advanced

1046
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 3: techniques for land navigation. You know that that was wasn't

1047
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 3: taught like the regular the regular Army, and I had

1048
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 3: a chance to like take my time and practice that

1049
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 3: you know at Benning. And so when I showed up

1050
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 3: for selection again for the start exam, I crushed it.

1051
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 3: Man I was the first one to finish out of

1052
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,439
Speaker 3: my whole class. I got all four points the first

1053
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 3: day before the sun even came up, man like. And

1054
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 3: I didn't run or anything. I just planned and just

1055
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:10,360
Speaker 3: made zero mistakes and just never stopped moving right. It

1056
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 3: was just you know what I mean, it was just

1057
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 3: like I'm actually quite private because it was just like

1058
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 3: like kind of back to our like discussion about combat, sportes, boxing, you.

1059
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 2: Know, just fa for me bro it.

1060
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was just efficient right like that that the

1061
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 3: technique was on points right, and it was actually practiced,

1062
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 3: and I wasn't worrying about a million other things because

1063
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 3: the basics were down to muscle memory at that point

1064
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 3: when I've been practicing so much landap and so that

1065
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 3: really gave me a lot of confidence as well. Again,

1066
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 3: I was just being like, oh, you know, like I'm

1067
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 3: not the most natural soldier in the world. I kind

1068
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 3: of described how how I struggled so much at West

1069
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 3: Point and everything like that. But I started realizing. I

1070
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 3: was like, if I'm given enough time, right, maybe I

1071
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 3: won't learn it as fast as everybody else. But I'm

1072
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 3: given enough time, I can master this. But I just

1073
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 3: need a little bit more time than everybody else, right,

1074
00:49:57,760 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 3: And you know that.

1075
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:03,279
Speaker 2: W fair equals unconventional soldier, bro. So you know, you know,

1076
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:05,399
Speaker 2: you know, you guys aren't cut of the mold. There's

1077
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 2: a song that says one man wins out of a hundred,

1078
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 2: you know, I.

1079
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 3: Hope, So you know, I hope. So that's where I

1080
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 3: ended up. But yeah, that's kind of my story of

1081
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 3: selection everything too.

1082
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 2: So yeah, I love that about you. And you know

1083
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 2: it's so close to home with dad and everything like that.

1084
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 2: He would tell me about going out on seventy two

1085
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:25,760
Speaker 2: hours stress tests, like what you're kind of talking about,

1086
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 2: and he would be like, you know, there's nothing. So

1087
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,439
Speaker 2: I do airsoft war games on a large level out

1088
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 2: here in Utah and and back in the day in

1089
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 2: the early two thousands when he was helping, when he

1090
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 2: was still around, he'd be like, you know, I can

1091
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 2: see this being practical for like a land NAFT test

1092
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 2: because they're always telling you expect contact. Yeah, and he's like,

1093
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 2: and Aaron, the last thing I did was ever get

1094
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 2: contact except for some guy at a fire pit stoking

1095
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 2: a fire saying you're good. Like he's like, where was that?

1096
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 2: You know that? Get up and go and like take

1097
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:00,880
Speaker 2: cover and return? Why am I wearing face paint? You know,

1098
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 2: the whole nine yards? And so he would talk about

1099
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 2: how sometimes the points would be like one point here

1100
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 2: on the mountaintop and then like point three is right

1101
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:12,359
Speaker 2: next to it, right right right, but he still has

1102
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 2: to go back down to point two right point three?

1103
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I mean that that was always like probably

1104
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 3: the hardest thing if you were there for the patrol leader,

1105
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:24,320
Speaker 3: whether it be at ranger school or later in the

1106
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:26,879
Speaker 3: Q course. You know, it is like you're you're moving

1107
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 3: out on your your patrol and then they hit you

1108
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 3: with the Ardi sims or something like that, and everybody's

1109
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:33,319
Speaker 3: like running like crazy and then to fire you have

1110
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:36,879
Speaker 3: to figure out after you've just run and like your

1111
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 3: team's all over the place trying to bring it all

1112
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 3: back together, and then to figure out where you are

1113
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 3: at that point. That was I think where the biggest

1114
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:44,799
Speaker 3: challenge to want to have, and that's the aspect of

1115
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 3: being able to you were saying like read the read

1116
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:49,279
Speaker 3: the converse, like okay.

1117
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 2: That's real. What yeah?

1118
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 3: What like where did we think we were? Like you

1119
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 3: have to be accurate where you thought you were number one? Right,

1120
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,279
Speaker 3: and then you have to guess how far did we run?

1121
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:01,839
Speaker 2: And what director we just want to view But now

1122
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 2: we're down here, so wait on be hand, So what

1123
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 2: what what Gene and I keep looking at for the

1124
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 2: listeners is our fist and your knuckles and the lines

1125
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 2: of your fist if you make a fist. It starts

1126
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 2: to create a valley, and it starts to create spines

1127
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 2: and you know, ridges and saddles. So you can use

1128
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 2: that as a quick reference of like what am I

1129
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:23,320
Speaker 2: looking at in the terrain. It's a saddle of between

1130
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:25,719
Speaker 2: two skills, you know, etce. That's what we're looking at

1131
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 2: for those of you listening through any of those mediums

1132
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 2: out there. And then you know, I don't want to

1133
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:33,719
Speaker 2: like stop talking about your book. I know you wrote

1134
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 2: this book because after you got out of the military,

1135
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 2: you kind of went through a little bit of a downtime.

1136
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 2: You're like, you know, where's all this? You know, how

1137
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:43,279
Speaker 2: am I going to finagle myself? And you went and

1138
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 2: got lost in the Philippines looking for Evelyn.

1139
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:53,239
Speaker 3: Yeah that's right, kind of lost again, right, okay, perfect, Yeah, yeah,

1140
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 3: that's fine.

1141
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:54,439
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1142
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:59,239
Speaker 3: So I think so, you know, like my story I

1143
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 3: think is unique in the sense and I thought we're

1144
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 3: telling you because I don't think there's a lot of

1145
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 3: SF guys who targeted whatever group they were targeting when

1146
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:09,960
Speaker 3: they were on the teams and everything like that. To

1147
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 3: have those people kidnap or just be involved in your

1148
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 3: life in the post your post life, you know, post

1149
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:20,840
Speaker 3: mid life, right. So basically there was a major operation

1150
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:23,400
Speaker 3: called Ultimatum that was a battle captain on down in

1151
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 3: southern Philippines where we're supposed to take out about forty

1152
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:29,880
Speaker 3: of the opposite of leadership, which is like the al

1153
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 3: Qaeda Arm of the Southeast Asia or ISIS Arm of

1154
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 3: Southeast Asia. But really these days, or even at that time,

1155
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 3: they started becoming really just bandits, really just kidnap, kidnap

1156
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 3: from ransom groups, but they would use the money, oftentimes

1157
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:53,360
Speaker 3: for terrorist activities or just sustaining their livelihoods. And so

1158
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 3: three of the guys out of the top forty that

1159
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 3: we had failed to take out in the first phase

1160
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:00,840
Speaker 3: of this major operation called Operation Ultimatum was Battle Captain

1161
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 3: and one of the major planning officers for three of

1162
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:09,359
Speaker 3: those guys. Five years later, after I'd already gotten out

1163
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:12,360
Speaker 3: of the military, you know this, in late twenty thirteen,

1164
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 3: kidnapped a family friend and then killed her husband while

1165
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 3: they're vacationing in eastern Malaysia, so Malaysian Borneo. Okay, So

1166
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:24,719
Speaker 3: that area, like places where you know, a lot of

1167
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 3: the US military saw conflict in the Middle East, is

1168
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 3: split up, not really by any sense of they should

1169
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 3: have been the separate countries, but just split due to

1170
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 3: European colonialism. Right. So, in particular, Malaysia was used to

1171
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 3: be Britain's and Philippines used to be Spains, right. And

1172
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:45,920
Speaker 3: so where they split the Southern Philippines and Eastern Malaysian Borneo,

1173
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 3: they split a group of people there called it used

1174
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:53,280
Speaker 3: to be called the Sultanate of Sulu, and the ethnicity

1175
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 3: there are called Taosik people, and they speak their own language.

1176
00:54:56,320 --> 00:55:01,560
Speaker 3: Those are the people and very dominant Muslim Muslim ethnicity.

1177
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:06,360
Speaker 3: Those are the people that largely Opposia draws from, and

1178
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:10,319
Speaker 3: their nation moves across from the Sulu Archipelago or those

1179
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:15,560
Speaker 3: islands over into Eastern Borneo as well. Okay, so for them,

1180
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:18,799
Speaker 3: it's like all their people's are just across this you know,

1181
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:20,400
Speaker 3: so called international border.

1182
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 2: Right.

1183
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 3: So where Evelyn was kidnapped was at a resort close

1184
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 3: to Sippinon Island, which is a very famous diving site.

1185
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 3: I've actually had a chance to go there previous event.

1186
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 3: It's definitely the most gorgeous diving that I've ever seen,

1187
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 3: but there's a lot of a sense of heightened risk

1188
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:39,439
Speaker 3: in there. You can kind of feel it. Right, There's

1189
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 3: there's a lot of guys to ak's around. There's a

1190
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 3: lot of people staring at you all the time, you know,

1191
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 3: looking at the foreigners, stuff like that. So Evelyn was

1192
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:51,319
Speaker 3: vacationing in a on her retirement holiday with her her

1193
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 3: husband was vacationing on a one of these bamboo still rooms.

1194
00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:57,319
Speaker 2: Right.

1195
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:00,560
Speaker 3: So it's like a little villa right on the hut

1196
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:03,920
Speaker 3: out of the water, right, and basically an opposite longboat

1197
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 3: came in the middle of the night, came straight up

1198
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 3: and yeah, straight up into the into the room. Yeah, yeah,

1199
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:13,799
Speaker 3: villa right, shot shot the husband eight times, right, grabbed her,

1200
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:15,760
Speaker 3: broke the wrist of the dragging her on the way out.

1201
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 3: And it's only twenty or thirty minutes by that speedboat

1202
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 3: right back into the Seulo Archipelago across the international border. Right,

1203
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 3: and she got sold from subgroup subgroup to subgroup until

1204
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 3: she landed at an eighty eighty person camp in Holo

1205
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:34,359
Speaker 3: and actually ended up being in an area called mind

1206
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 3: Bowe where my first ODA was actually operating out of

1207
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:40,320
Speaker 3: during Operation Ultimatum.

1208
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:40,680
Speaker 2: Right.

1209
00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:44,320
Speaker 3: So this is like straight in my Bailey Wick, you

1210
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 3: know what I mean In terms of two of my

1211
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:49,319
Speaker 3: two of my tours area of operation first group, right

1212
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 3: you know, hey, yes, my theater, right, Like I was

1213
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:55,520
Speaker 3: a team leader of two teams when I was in SF.

1214
00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:57,799
Speaker 3: I was a one two ones team leader, which is

1215
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:00,480
Speaker 3: a rock team. So my first team, and then I

1216
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 3: went over to the SIF or the Commanders and Extremist

1217
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:06,280
Speaker 3: Force for the second team, and I did two trips

1218
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 3: to to Iraq with those those teams as well. But

1219
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:12,879
Speaker 3: what first group is kind of I mean, first group

1220
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:15,880
Speaker 3: eventually got into the fight in Iraq and Afghanistan, but

1221
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:17,680
Speaker 3: in that two thousands time period, it was all about

1222
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 3: the Philippines. And so that's that's one of my aos

1223
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 3: or areas operations as well, right. So so so that

1224
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:28,200
Speaker 3: was just crazy for me because I was, you know,

1225
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 3: at this point in time in my career, like you know,

1226
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 3: I'd been had a stint in grad school. You know,

1227
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 3: I'd gone to a bank, you know, as an investment

1228
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 3: banker for for a year or so. It didn't work out,

1229
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:41,800
Speaker 3: you know for me, it didn't fit. Then then I

1230
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 3: joined a talenteer that didn't work out for me, you know,

1231
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 3: and in in uh in that company as well, and

1232
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:49,120
Speaker 3: I was really struggling, like a lot of veterans, I think,

1233
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:51,720
Speaker 3: do struggling in a different way. Right, These are not

1234
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 3: horrible companies that I was at, a very prestigious welcome shock,

1235
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 3: but it was hard for me. I was not having

1236
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 3: easy time landing on my feet what I was doing, Like, yeah, yeah.

1237
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 2: It's just it's just just you got to be free, dude.

1238
00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 2: You got to be able to do you you know what.

1239
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I did it. I was supposed to be doing,

1240
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 3: you know. Yeah, And uh so it's in between jobs

1241
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 3: at the time, you know, And and really down down

1242
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:17,840
Speaker 3: on myself, you know, felt a lot of guilt as well,

1243
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 3: Like I knew I was in my prime, you know,

1244
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 3: it felt, man, I'm a prime. I left Green Brads

1245
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 3: when I was my prime, you know, like you know

1246
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 3: they're still out there, right, you know what I mean.

1247
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 3: There's all that like waves of guilt, you know what

1248
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 3: I mean, like coming through And and so when Evelyn

1249
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:34,400
Speaker 3: got kidnapped and my mom, my mom called me she

1250
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:37,160
Speaker 3: was she was coming to visit family in Taiwan at

1251
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 3: the time, told me to come out and meet her.

1252
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:42,000
Speaker 3: And so when I got into Taiwan, this story was

1253
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 3: just like non stop in the news because people don't

1254
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:47,440
Speaker 3: get kidnapped in Taiwan, right, Like Asia in general is

1255
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:50,800
Speaker 3: a is a very safe place, right a. Taiwan is

1256
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 3: one of the safest places in the world, minus the

1257
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:55,520
Speaker 3: fact that China has like you know, a thousand.

1258
00:58:55,160 --> 00:59:00,160
Speaker 2: Wants it right right, right, Taiwan? How about that?

1259
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 3: How about that over there West?

1260
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 2: How about that?

1261
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 3: It's hilarious, that's hilarious West Taiwan.

1262
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, bro me how ma that? Yes?

1263
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:23,280
Speaker 3: So so yeah, so minus this whole World War three scenario,

1264
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:28,240
Speaker 3: Taiwan domestically is super safe, man, right, And so people

1265
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:31,280
Speaker 3: people in the island blew their minds as something like

1266
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:33,760
Speaker 3: this would happen to one of their citizens, right. That's

1267
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:35,040
Speaker 3: why it was on the news all the time, right,

1268
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:35,440
Speaker 3: I think.

1269
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:38,960
Speaker 2: Vation on vacation and a beautiful villa on a water

1270
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 2: like with a dive team and all of a sudden

1271
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 2: boom pirates or whoever show up. Guys.

1272
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 3: It's just crazy, right, It's a spectacular story, right and

1273
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 3: and uh and then also so she her her older

1274
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:55,480
Speaker 3: sister okay Went, was classmates with the first Lady of Taiwan,

1275
00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:59,200
Speaker 3: okay okay Uh. And then part of my story is

1276
00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:01,640
Speaker 3: that the first lady is married of course to the

1277
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:06,200
Speaker 3: President of Taiwan, who is at that time was my uncle, right,

1278
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:13,120
Speaker 3: so that's my my mother's older brother, right, So yeah,

1279
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:27,640
Speaker 3: Royalty's not there. It's crazy. So so her even though

1280
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:30,840
Speaker 3: she wasn't that connected to him, the Taiwan media is

1281
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 3: very much like Papa Roxi, right, and so they created

1282
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:35,480
Speaker 3: this link because also they just couldn't imagine, like how

1283
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:37,920
Speaker 3: could it be a random kidnapping like that It was

1284
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:41,080
Speaker 3: totally random, right, but how could it be random? And

1285
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 3: so the media blew it up in a much bigger

1286
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 3: story as well. And the irony, of course is that

1287
01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:47,440
Speaker 3: she didn't actually ever have much of a connection to

1288
01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:51,880
Speaker 3: the President Taiwan, but the story did when I got involved, ironically, right,

1289
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 3: like naively, when I got involved, then it became a

1290
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:58,240
Speaker 3: very direct connection in the actual presidency. But uh, and

1291
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:00,640
Speaker 3: that's my own naivete as well, because is you know,

1292
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:03,080
Speaker 3: most of my life, like I know, I know my

1293
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:05,640
Speaker 3: uncle quite well now, you know, because I spent a

1294
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:08,840
Speaker 3: lot of time in Asia or in Asia and Taiwan

1295
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:10,920
Speaker 3: visiting in my post in real life. But when I

1296
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:13,480
Speaker 3: was growing up, I only met him maybe once or twice,

1297
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:16,280
Speaker 3: you know, as a child, and I didn't speak very

1298
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 3: much Chinese when I was growing up, right, and he

1299
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 3: mostly speaks Chinese because he's most of my family all

1300
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:25,360
Speaker 3: moved over to the States, and all my cousins, I mean,

1301
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 3: were all born in the US and grew up in

1302
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:29,600
Speaker 3: the US, and then just him basically stayed in Taiwan.

1303
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:32,720
Speaker 3: And so his English is really really good. But when

1304
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 3: he came to visit the station just a couple of times,

1305
01:01:35,560 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 3: it was all in Chinese, and you know, there's that

1306
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 3: distance between you know, the generations the center. So I

1307
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:42,840
Speaker 3: really didn't know him, like I really didn't know him,

1308
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:48,560
Speaker 3: you know, and and so yeah, but anyway, so this

1309
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:53,720
Speaker 3: this connection is very loose for Evelyn to to him,

1310
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:55,800
Speaker 3: but the media had made such a big story. It

1311
01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 3: was all over the news. And so when I got

1312
01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:01,760
Speaker 3: to Taiwan, my mom my mom is her one of

1313
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:05,360
Speaker 3: her closest friends is the older sister of Evelyn Chang, right,

1314
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:08,200
Speaker 3: her name is Angela, And so they were in Taiwan.

1315
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 3: She lives in Florida, and she had come back to

1316
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:13,520
Speaker 3: try to help like just whatever from the family side

1317
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 3: of just helping arrange like what were this crisis, And

1318
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:20,120
Speaker 3: so I went to go They had asked if, like,

1319
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:22,800
Speaker 3: does you know anything about what's going on down this

1320
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:24,480
Speaker 3: part of the world. And I was like, at that point,

1321
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:26,080
Speaker 3: we didn't know as appasa, but I was had a

1322
01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:26,920
Speaker 3: pretty good guest.

1323
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 2: Based off what it happened, is probably those guys part of.

1324
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:32,520
Speaker 3: Those guys, you know.

1325
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:33,840
Speaker 2: So he's got a few men.

1326
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:38,960
Speaker 3: So met her of breakfast, and I came quickly to

1327
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:43,320
Speaker 3: realize because Taiwan's not a recognized country, right, it's even

1328
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 3: though it is completely operating as a freely independent country, right,

1329
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:50,800
Speaker 3: its own government, it's democratic, democratic, its own military, its

1330
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:54,800
Speaker 3: own currency. You know, everything China has choked has gotten

1331
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:57,080
Speaker 3: the whole world, you know in the United States degree,

1332
01:02:57,080 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 3: that's not right. So it doesn't have any real dimlomatic

1333
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 3: relations with except for like I think it's like Haiti

1334
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:05,520
Speaker 3: or something like some really random small countries like around

1335
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:09,160
Speaker 3: the world, maybe like single digits. And so there's no

1336
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 3: relationship between Taiwan and Philippines formally, right in that in

1337
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:15,040
Speaker 3: that sense, and so there's no leverage, you know, from

1338
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:17,520
Speaker 3: the Taiwanese government and be like, yo, help our citizen

1339
01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:21,880
Speaker 3: that's been kidnapped, right, And came to quickly realize they

1340
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:24,120
Speaker 3: had no nobody was helping them, right, it was. It

1341
01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:27,520
Speaker 3: was literally like just this like loose Interpol connection and

1342
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:31,040
Speaker 3: me knowing and understanding that at that at that point

1343
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:33,800
Speaker 3: is some you know knowledge right of the Philippine military

1344
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:36,439
Speaker 3: and Philippine police. I'm like, wow, this is a really

1345
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:39,520
Speaker 3: bad situation. Like nothing's going to happen here, right, nobody's

1346
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:43,240
Speaker 3: getting every went out right, and Taiwanese lost it.

1347
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:46,720
Speaker 2: It's like what season the Jungle somewhere? Yeah.

1348
01:03:47,080 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, So so I realized in that moment, I was like, wow,

1349
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:53,919
Speaker 3: out of like it's not that I'm a good option here,

1350
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:57,160
Speaker 3: but you have no options. And suddenly, out of all

1351
01:03:57,200 --> 01:04:00,800
Speaker 3: these shitty options, I guess I'm the least shitty, right,

1352
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 3: and again I'm completely available for like the first time

1353
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:04,840
Speaker 3: of my entire life.

1354
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 2: You've been sorted.

1355
01:04:06,600 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, have been great? Yeah, exactly the verse. Yeah, A

1356
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:16,000
Speaker 3: lot of ways, right, like even today, this event has

1357
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:18,000
Speaker 3: happened now ten years later, a lot of things I

1358
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:20,040
Speaker 3: think about now and I talk about this in my writing.

1359
01:04:20,080 --> 01:04:23,439
Speaker 3: It's like it's almost like my entire life in many ways,

1360
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:25,680
Speaker 3: you could you could quantify all of the events in

1361
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:29,360
Speaker 3: our lives happened and then came to the point of

1362
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:31,480
Speaker 3: this event in your life. But really, because there's such

1363
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:33,120
Speaker 3: a magnitude of this when you look at my whole

1364
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:35,760
Speaker 3: life of how happenstance it was that I ended up

1365
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:39,200
Speaker 3: at somehow, at West Point, somehow, you know, into into

1366
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:41,320
Speaker 3: SF and these experiences and all that type of stuff

1367
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:44,600
Speaker 3: after this event occurred, and even today sometimes I think

1368
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:46,800
Speaker 3: that the entire point of my life right was just

1369
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:49,200
Speaker 3: to rescue everyone check, you know what I mean, Like

1370
01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:50,840
Speaker 3: just to get her out, you know what I mean,

1371
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:53,720
Speaker 3: Like in a weird, funny way of the cosmic fates

1372
01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:56,240
Speaker 3: of the universe, of everything that had happened led to

1373
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:57,240
Speaker 3: this to.

1374
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:01,480
Speaker 2: Be that rescue element for her because there would be nobody.

1375
01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:05,520
Speaker 2: You were the one, you know, like nobody else is around?

1376
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:09,680
Speaker 2: Is anybody else to go down the trail? Here about with.

1377
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:13,160
Speaker 3: The context and the experience, and it's like it's you.

1378
01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1379
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:16,160
Speaker 3: And again the fact that I was unemployed at the time,

1380
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:18,040
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Like if I was still

1381
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:20,120
Speaker 3: at the bank, you know, at Credit Swiss or a

1382
01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:22,240
Speaker 3: pound me, like I probably would have been like, hey,

1383
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:25,600
Speaker 3: that really sucks, Like what a horrible situation, and maybe

1384
01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:28,360
Speaker 3: made a phone call to maybe right and then it

1385
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:29,400
Speaker 3: would have stopped.

1386
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:29,640
Speaker 2: You know what I mean.

1387
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:34,120
Speaker 3: But it was like because I was completely available both

1388
01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:36,240
Speaker 3: your call, yeah, my mom calls.

1389
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:40,320
Speaker 2: It's like, I'm gonna get Jean. Don't you worry about it.

1390
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:43,840
Speaker 2: Everything we find he's that one entrepreneur phase.

1391
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 3: Well, that one so Asian Asian mom. After we met,

1392
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:51,960
Speaker 3: she said, you better not think about doing anything to

1393
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 3: help them, right, like even though it was a friend, right,

1394
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:58,800
Speaker 3: you don't put you don't put her son and into risk,

1395
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:00,800
Speaker 3: you know, for for this, right. Yeah, And it was

1396
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 3: very touchy. So actually, the whole time that I was

1397
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:06,000
Speaker 3: in the Philippines working on this, I was actually lying

1398
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:08,040
Speaker 3: to my mom telling her I was in I was

1399
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:09,880
Speaker 3: somewhere else. I was in Hong Kong, hanging out with

1400
01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:12,400
Speaker 3: my buddies, right, and you know what I mean. It

1401
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:15,280
Speaker 3: wasn't until after everything that I that I confided to her,

1402
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:17,120
Speaker 3: And actually even in my time in SF, when I

1403
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:18,600
Speaker 3: was in Iraq and stuff like that, I just tell

1404
01:06:18,600 --> 01:06:21,600
Speaker 3: her I was in Okay, now, right, everything's fine, Yeah,

1405
01:06:21,600 --> 01:06:27,000
Speaker 3: everything was fine, right, like this sort of thing. So, yeah,

1406
01:06:27,120 --> 01:06:28,960
Speaker 3: I don't wanted to worry, you know, but.

1407
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:33,880
Speaker 2: She knew you were a reen Beret, right, she understood.

1408
01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:40,520
Speaker 3: What that was right. No, I don't know, right, just

1409
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:43,439
Speaker 3: I'm just some. I'm just some like little her boy.

1410
01:06:43,720 --> 01:06:46,320
Speaker 3: I'm just a little boy. Yeah, sound like a mama's boy.

1411
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:51,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. Even now right, she's like, you're going, is your

1412
01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:54,160
Speaker 2: mom still with us? Yeah? She is good for you.

1413
01:06:54,560 --> 01:06:56,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love her there and thank you.

1414
01:06:57,080 --> 01:07:00,760
Speaker 2: Yes, I love from me on behalf and my parents.

1415
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:03,480
Speaker 3: You know, I appreciate that I caught that. And yeah, no,

1416
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:06,560
Speaker 3: I appreciate saying that, right, I do appreciate her. So

1417
01:07:07,600 --> 01:07:09,400
Speaker 3: so you know, I'll try to fast forward through the story.

1418
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:11,560
Speaker 3: But because obviously I'll leave something to the reader for

1419
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:11,960
Speaker 3: the book.

1420
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:16,320
Speaker 2: They should go get this book and look at look

1421
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:18,440
Speaker 2: at if you're listening to us talk, it's called the

1422
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:23,200
Speaker 2: second shot. Okay. The book is the second shot. Okay,

1423
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:26,520
Speaker 2: by Gene. You if you've gone this long, the second shot, this.

1424
01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 3: Whole interview with the second shot, you're still with us

1425
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:31,040
Speaker 3: for some reason after.

1426
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:33,680
Speaker 2: Yes, you're still here having a good time with us,

1427
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:37,320
Speaker 2: you know, the second shot. Yeah, theater soon.

1428
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:42,000
Speaker 3: I mean a long story short. Actually I'll share the

1429
01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:44,320
Speaker 3: information on that in a second. But so the long

1430
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:46,720
Speaker 3: story short of of it is basically that I was

1431
01:07:46,760 --> 01:07:50,480
Speaker 3: able to get connected up through West Point and s

1432
01:07:50,640 --> 01:07:55,400
Speaker 3: F contacts to the Filipino Scout Rangers, and they actually

1433
01:07:55,520 --> 01:07:58,760
Speaker 3: ended up having assets in the camp that everyone was

1434
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:01,760
Speaker 3: held at. And to cut to the chase, there was

1435
01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:05,840
Speaker 3: a lengthy, very very high intense you know, and like

1436
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:08,800
Speaker 3: at this point, I have no experience at kidnapping ransom negotiations,

1437
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:11,080
Speaker 3: and I'm just doing my best, you know, to It's

1438
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:13,440
Speaker 3: it's like the ultimate battle of wits. Right, It's like

1439
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:16,920
Speaker 3: it's the ultimate heads up poker, one on one, right,

1440
01:08:17,240 --> 01:08:19,760
Speaker 3: there's no other hands. It's gonna be one hand. We're

1441
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:22,200
Speaker 3: betting it all. Both sides like Times of the Essence,

1442
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:24,960
Speaker 3: Times of the Essence. Right, There's both sides have pressure,

1443
01:08:25,080 --> 01:08:28,000
Speaker 3: right because on their side, on their side, they're like, man,

1444
01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:30,080
Speaker 3: I'm running the risk every single day that I'm holding

1445
01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:33,519
Speaker 3: onto this, this this hostage. Right, I got to feed her.

1446
01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:36,439
Speaker 3: You know, the military is looking for me, police are

1447
01:08:36,439 --> 01:08:38,640
Speaker 3: looking for me. Right, I got to offload this and

1448
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:40,920
Speaker 3: get my money and get out of dodge. Right. Then,

1449
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:43,040
Speaker 3: of course, on your side, you're worried about the hostage.

1450
01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:45,519
Speaker 3: You know. There's it's it's an ultimate like I just

1451
01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:48,240
Speaker 3: consider that how I describe it's an ultimate battle of wits,

1452
01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:50,320
Speaker 3: you know what I mean of a of a trade.

1453
01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:53,240
Speaker 3: You know it's one time, right, and you're never gonna

1454
01:08:53,240 --> 01:08:55,439
Speaker 3: do business again. It's just who can screw each other

1455
01:08:55,479 --> 01:08:59,200
Speaker 3: over and win on one side? Right. So So anyway,

1456
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:01,479
Speaker 3: long story short, that's I go through the whole story

1457
01:09:01,479 --> 01:09:06,240
Speaker 3: of the negotiation and the various the various ups and

1458
01:09:06,280 --> 01:09:10,120
Speaker 3: downs of that. During the exchange, we were operating out

1459
01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:15,600
Speaker 3: of a basically Filipino CIA safehouse and an Australian intelligence

1460
01:09:15,640 --> 01:09:19,040
Speaker 3: operative who was working up there as well. We were

1461
01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:22,479
Speaker 3: able to build some I was able to convince them

1462
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:26,360
Speaker 3: to give us a one of their tracker and logger devices,

1463
01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:29,920
Speaker 3: so we inserted that into the actual exchange of ransom

1464
01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:34,120
Speaker 3: cash and electronics equipment they wanted and basically vectored in

1465
01:09:34,160 --> 01:09:36,760
Speaker 3: the scout rangers. They hit them right after the exchange,

1466
01:09:36,760 --> 01:09:39,080
Speaker 3: and it basically over the lapt the next few months destroyed,

1467
01:09:39,439 --> 01:09:43,040
Speaker 3: basically destroyed that whole group. And I've actually only been

1468
01:09:44,320 --> 01:09:48,519
Speaker 3: been briefed by the it's called NIKA, the National Intelligence Coordination,

1469
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:53,080
Speaker 3: see the Filipino CIA. Like about a year ago. I

1470
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:55,639
Speaker 3: went to go visit them and they unloaded the entire story.

1471
01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:58,200
Speaker 3: Because now it's ten years et cetera. It's gonna be

1472
01:09:58,240 --> 01:10:00,720
Speaker 3: fully declassified, they said in twenty thirty two, but they're

1473
01:10:00,760 --> 01:10:02,479
Speaker 3: able to share a lot of the details. I didn't

1474
01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:06,080
Speaker 3: even know right until very recently about all the operation

1475
01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:09,160
Speaker 3: has spawned off of this tracker and logger that ended

1476
01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:12,400
Speaker 3: up being I believe the most one of the most

1477
01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:17,160
Speaker 3: successful operations gainst Asia, right, and just lucky to be honest, right,

1478
01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:18,920
Speaker 3: and as I get it, you know, but yeah, you know,

1479
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 3: like it wasn't really me, it was that, you know.

1480
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:23,600
Speaker 3: But the domino effect though, the domino effect's just a

1481
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:26,639
Speaker 3: really interesting just again the certendipity of it, all right,

1482
01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:31,160
Speaker 3: And and the three guys that that we that we

1483
01:10:31,280 --> 01:10:33,960
Speaker 3: missed that operation ultimate in the kidnapped Evelyn, every single

1484
01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:35,960
Speaker 3: one of them got taken out right like in in

1485
01:10:36,040 --> 01:10:39,240
Speaker 3: individual operations or the or the actual full on company

1486
01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:41,200
Speaker 3: scout ranger assault. You know that they hit the camp

1487
01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:43,439
Speaker 3: with over and over with that you know, being able

1488
01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:44,960
Speaker 3: to track them with that tracker and logger that we

1489
01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:49,000
Speaker 3: put on them. So so that's that's basically the story, right,

1490
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:51,800
Speaker 3: And just that ended up being the lead into how

1491
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:55,479
Speaker 3: I created my company Black Pane today, right where thirty

1492
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:58,200
Speaker 3: million US dollars in venture capital now right, Like this

1493
01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:00,799
Speaker 3: story basically gave me this known variety here in Asia

1494
01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:04,080
Speaker 3: as like the guy that put this together, and basically

1495
01:11:04,080 --> 01:11:06,479
Speaker 3: investors and people with money were very interested, are like, hey,

1496
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:09,800
Speaker 3: you like you seem like a competent individual. What are

1497
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:10,400
Speaker 3: you doing now?

1498
01:11:11,120 --> 01:11:11,360
Speaker 2: Hey?

1499
01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:14,960
Speaker 3: And then you know, my co founder and chairman of

1500
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:16,880
Speaker 3: my company is actually a former Green Beret who is

1501
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:19,360
Speaker 3: a big boss at Credit Swiss Matt Peco. And he's

1502
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:21,760
Speaker 3: the first guy. Basically twenty fifteen, it's like, Hey, Gene,

1503
01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:23,679
Speaker 3: I want to start a company with you called Black Panda.

1504
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:25,640
Speaker 3: I want to put a million US dollars. You want

1505
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:27,479
Speaker 3: to come over and run it. It's like hell, yeah,

1506
01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:29,599
Speaker 3: right right, you know, and then partner with him, and

1507
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:31,880
Speaker 3: ten years later, I'm still running this company. We've got

1508
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:34,720
Speaker 3: offices all over Asia and we're leading one of the

1509
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:38,600
Speaker 3: leading cybersecurity companies out here. So all of this to

1510
01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:41,000
Speaker 3: your point earlier is I can share this. They told

1511
01:11:41,000 --> 01:11:42,400
Speaker 3: me that you know I could share this is that

1512
01:11:42,439 --> 01:11:48,200
Speaker 3: we're in discussions with Temple Hill Entertainment, the producers behind

1513
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:51,519
Speaker 3: Mais Runner and first Man. You know, it's a pretty

1514
01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:55,960
Speaker 3: major guy's Marty bad and John Fisher. So yeah, and

1515
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:59,120
Speaker 3: then do you know the actor Simoulu from shang Chi

1516
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:01,320
Speaker 3: and the Marvel character, like there's.

1517
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:03,760
Speaker 2: A oh yeah, yeah, yeah I do, I do.

1518
01:12:03,960 --> 01:12:06,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's in discussions as well to be the lead

1519
01:12:06,439 --> 01:12:07,880
Speaker 3: actor for the for a Phone story.

1520
01:12:07,920 --> 01:12:10,160
Speaker 2: So there that's a part of a big beard anywhere

1521
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:11,280
Speaker 2: in your book. Yeah.

1522
01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:13,599
Speaker 3: Actually, you know what's funny, there is a character actually

1523
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:19,320
Speaker 3: the story that you could actually will cut just five

1524
01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:20,559
Speaker 3: seventy it.

1525
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:20,720
Speaker 2: Man.

1526
01:12:20,800 --> 01:12:26,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a character called the Viking. But yeah, yeah, yeah,

1527
01:12:27,479 --> 01:12:29,519
Speaker 3: thanks man. Yeah. So it's kind of a I mean,

1528
01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:33,080
Speaker 3: obviously it's it's obviously fun fun to to be going

1529
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:35,000
Speaker 3: through all this, but I think it's an interesting story

1530
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:37,559
Speaker 3: to share as well and just kind of tie. But

1531
01:12:37,560 --> 01:12:40,080
Speaker 3: that that's really why the book kind of came around,

1532
01:12:40,240 --> 01:12:43,120
Speaker 3: was because in order to do to have a shot

1533
01:12:43,160 --> 01:12:45,920
Speaker 3: at maybe making a film, we had to write a book,

1534
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:48,120
Speaker 3: you know, because honestly, I'll be straight up you know,

1535
01:12:48,280 --> 01:12:52,000
Speaker 3: like I didn't have some burning desire to come around

1536
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:53,680
Speaker 3: and tell the story so much. I mean, I do

1537
01:12:53,880 --> 01:12:56,439
Speaker 3: have agendas in terms of want to tell the story

1538
01:12:56,479 --> 01:12:58,560
Speaker 3: for different reasons. One of the reasons I want to

1539
01:12:58,560 --> 01:13:01,320
Speaker 3: show the heroism as well the Philip. You know, Nika

1540
01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:03,280
Speaker 3: operatives were actually the ones who went in. There's a

1541
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:04,840
Speaker 3: whole christ story, but how they went in and got

1542
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:06,640
Speaker 3: it done and everything like that, and did it for

1543
01:13:06,720 --> 01:13:08,479
Speaker 3: me as a stranger as well. Right, I met him

1544
01:13:08,479 --> 01:13:10,400
Speaker 3: basically just a few days prior, and they just completely

1545
01:13:10,439 --> 01:13:12,080
Speaker 3: put the careers like right away.

1546
01:13:11,960 --> 01:13:14,800
Speaker 2: Left the line, immediately felt the brotherhood and you were

1547
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:16,880
Speaker 2: just like this is the case, and they're like we

1548
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:21,240
Speaker 2: got you. Uh yeah, so cool. Jumped out of hot

1549
01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:24,160
Speaker 2: air balloons too, man, that's dope. My dad did as well. No,

1550
01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:26,240
Speaker 2: he's got the jump wins with the elephant on him.

1551
01:13:26,080 --> 01:13:28,720
Speaker 3: From yeah you know, yeah, that's the way I jumped

1552
01:13:28,720 --> 01:13:29,880
Speaker 3: out of the ones in Thailand too.

1553
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:32,000
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, not to go back away. So oh

1554
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:35,160
Speaker 2: you jumped out of Thailand and yeah, yeah. His theater

1555
01:13:35,360 --> 01:13:38,120
Speaker 2: was the Southeast, it was it was all of the Pacific.

1556
01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:42,200
Speaker 2: That was my nineteenth group. So okay, God, how to Utah?

1557
01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:45,719
Speaker 3: That's what that's right, that's right. It's headquartered out of Draper, right.

1558
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:48,320
Speaker 2: That's right. So yeah you say it like you know it.

1559
01:13:49,439 --> 01:13:51,400
Speaker 3: I would say, no, I read it.

1560
01:13:51,720 --> 01:13:54,760
Speaker 2: He's like Draper right over the It's like right there.

1561
01:13:55,040 --> 01:13:56,559
Speaker 2: I live like ten minutes from it.

1562
01:13:58,400 --> 01:14:02,759
Speaker 3: I've been through Utah a few times because I know Draper.

1563
01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:06,880
Speaker 2: It's okay. It's where it's at. That is camp all day,

1564
01:14:07,120 --> 01:14:12,040
Speaker 2: nineteenth SF all day, no beret zone and no salute zone.

1565
01:14:12,520 --> 01:14:13,080
Speaker 2: It's good.

1566
01:14:13,240 --> 01:14:15,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, no salute zone. Man, hands and pockets all day. Right,

1567
01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:19,120
Speaker 3: So pretty much? Yeah.

1568
01:14:19,360 --> 01:14:24,240
Speaker 2: Well, Jean, you've lived a cool life so far. Bro.

1569
01:14:25,000 --> 01:14:30,000
Speaker 2: You've chased yourself. You're constantly reinventing yourself. And I think

1570
01:14:30,040 --> 01:14:33,880
Speaker 2: that what you didn't mean to do by doing this,

1571
01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:36,920
Speaker 2: writing the book and now possibly having you know, talks

1572
01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:40,240
Speaker 2: about the movies and having your successful black Panda company.

1573
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:43,519
Speaker 2: It wasn't something that you really saw then as the

1574
01:14:43,520 --> 01:14:46,680
Speaker 2: young Jen. It just was a culmination of everything that

1575
01:14:46,720 --> 01:14:48,759
Speaker 2: you've gone through and here you are today.

1576
01:14:49,240 --> 01:14:50,240
Speaker 3: I mean, thanks man.

1577
01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:51,280
Speaker 2: I really love this.

1578
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:53,960
Speaker 3: This speech that Steve Jobs gave in two thousand and

1579
01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:56,080
Speaker 3: five and commenced the speech at Stanford, and he talks

1580
01:14:56,080 --> 01:14:59,240
Speaker 3: about how you can't connect the dots forward, right. You

1581
01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:01,519
Speaker 3: can't look and plant it forward of what you're going

1582
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:03,439
Speaker 3: to do and then put it all together. You can

1583
01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:06,519
Speaker 3: only connect the dots backwards when you look backwards, right.

1584
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:08,880
Speaker 3: And that's a part of all this as well as

1585
01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:11,040
Speaker 3: when I look at the various different things that I've

1586
01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:13,160
Speaker 3: done and just kind of wandered into accidentally, like how

1587
01:15:13,200 --> 01:15:14,800
Speaker 3: do you all stitch that together and make it work

1588
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:17,559
Speaker 3: for you today? Right, It's not about making the right

1589
01:15:17,560 --> 01:15:20,640
Speaker 3: decision back then. You know, it's impossible really at the

1590
01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:22,280
Speaker 3: end of the day to always make the right decision.

1591
01:15:22,360 --> 01:15:25,080
Speaker 3: It's just make it right afterwards, right, to make it

1592
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:28,400
Speaker 3: work for you. And that's why this book's called the

1593
01:15:28,439 --> 01:15:30,880
Speaker 3: second Shot. Right when as a student at US Army

1594
01:15:30,880 --> 01:15:34,360
Speaker 3: Sniper School, I remember the instructure is emphasizing right, It's like,

1595
01:15:34,400 --> 01:15:37,599
Speaker 3: it's not yeah, the unofficial model is one shot, one kill.

1596
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:39,920
Speaker 3: But it's not about hitting it on the first shot,

1597
01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:42,960
Speaker 3: because over a long distance, there's no way, like the

1598
01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:46,000
Speaker 3: wind is going two different directions, three different directions. You know,

1599
01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:48,800
Speaker 3: over a long distance, the curvature of the earth, even

1600
01:15:48,840 --> 01:15:50,960
Speaker 3: the temperature is going to change how that bullet flies.

1601
01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:52,360
Speaker 3: So if you hit it on the first shot at

1602
01:15:52,439 --> 01:15:54,920
Speaker 3: long distance, it's really lucky. It's frankly, it's just luck

1603
01:15:54,920 --> 01:15:56,960
Speaker 3: that you got on the first shot. It's about how

1604
01:15:57,000 --> 01:15:58,960
Speaker 3: fast you can adjust the winds, the elevation with your

1605
01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:01,639
Speaker 3: spot or on the second shot, the shows how good

1606
01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:04,439
Speaker 3: that sniper team really is, right, And I love that

1607
01:16:04,479 --> 01:16:06,600
Speaker 3: because I think of that as a kind of a metaphor,

1608
01:16:06,720 --> 01:16:08,800
Speaker 3: you know, for how my life was in terms of

1609
01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:11,679
Speaker 3: failing everything the first time and then just keeping calm,

1610
01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:13,720
Speaker 3: you know, lock and loading that next round and then

1611
01:16:13,800 --> 01:16:15,960
Speaker 3: just getting in and target the second shot, right. And

1612
01:16:16,040 --> 01:16:18,639
Speaker 3: so so that's how I try to look at look

1613
01:16:18,680 --> 01:16:20,280
Speaker 3: at all this and why I called the book the

1614
01:16:20,280 --> 01:16:22,360
Speaker 3: Second Shot, uh, you know, because I'm not I'm not

1615
01:16:22,360 --> 01:16:24,519
Speaker 3: out there trying to pound my chest, is you know,

1616
01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:27,400
Speaker 3: I consider myself a very have been a very average parade,

1617
01:16:27,960 --> 01:16:31,479
Speaker 3: all all things told and said. But but there's even

1618
01:16:31,520 --> 01:16:34,400
Speaker 3: this story here of missing the first time and reloading

1619
01:16:34,400 --> 01:16:36,479
Speaker 3: the second time and coming after it is that's the

1620
01:16:36,479 --> 01:16:39,360
Speaker 3: story I wanted to share with folk. You know. I

1621
01:16:39,400 --> 01:16:41,680
Speaker 3: also again, uh, you know that the proceeds from this

1622
01:16:41,720 --> 01:16:44,360
Speaker 3: book even you know, it's basically all the revenue proceeds

1623
01:16:44,400 --> 01:16:48,879
Speaker 3: I've been pushing towards interests for those NIKA operatives that

1624
01:16:48,880 --> 01:16:51,080
Speaker 3: they wanted like a gun, like they wanted like equipment

1625
01:16:51,080 --> 01:16:53,640
Speaker 3: for their unit. I took them to Taiwan right to

1626
01:16:53,840 --> 01:16:55,880
Speaker 3: you know, on a on a trip out there right

1627
01:16:56,479 --> 01:16:58,640
Speaker 3: with what little you know money I was helping to

1628
01:16:58,640 --> 01:17:00,519
Speaker 3: get off of this this book, you know, all this

1629
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:03,120
Speaker 3: type of stuff you're trying to do, do it for

1630
01:17:03,160 --> 01:17:05,760
Speaker 3: those reasons and and uh and kind of bring bring

1631
01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:07,960
Speaker 3: attention to the heroes and that they provided. I mean,

1632
01:17:07,960 --> 01:17:09,480
Speaker 3: I'm still humbled.

1633
01:17:09,120 --> 01:17:11,519
Speaker 2: By that aspect, right unless the NIKA Rangers is that

1634
01:17:11,560 --> 01:17:12,400
Speaker 2: how we're calling them.

1635
01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:14,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, so there's there's two units. It's it's it's very

1636
01:17:14,880 --> 01:17:18,280
Speaker 3: similar to US Defense apparatus, right, So the NIKA would

1637
01:17:18,280 --> 01:17:21,200
Speaker 3: be the CIA, so national intelligence coordinations we see, and

1638
01:17:21,240 --> 01:17:24,200
Speaker 3: then the Scout Rangers would be like the Ranger Regiment, right,

1639
01:17:24,280 --> 01:17:26,720
Speaker 3: and so yeah, so they and they've got like basically

1640
01:17:26,760 --> 01:17:31,040
Speaker 3: the same units in parallel of comparison.

1641
01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:35,120
Speaker 2: And ortoons battalions. They're like delpt out, just like kind

1642
01:17:35,120 --> 01:17:35,439
Speaker 2: of we are.

1643
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:37,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, well they said, they're like they've got their Tier

1644
01:17:37,479 --> 01:17:39,559
Speaker 3: ones and their Tier two's, and you know, it's it's

1645
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:42,599
Speaker 3: modeled exactly after the US military because the long history

1646
01:17:42,640 --> 01:17:45,160
Speaker 3: between the two and and so intertwined as well, and

1647
01:17:45,280 --> 01:17:49,479
Speaker 3: so critical strategically with Philippines right right south of Taiwan

1648
01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:51,760
Speaker 3: and everything like that too, right, So oh yeah, well.

1649
01:17:51,680 --> 01:17:55,320
Speaker 2: I know it's very it's very sensitive area and beautiful people,

1650
01:17:56,240 --> 01:18:00,200
Speaker 2: beautiful country. Uh, there's bad actors and they need to

1651
01:18:00,240 --> 01:18:03,080
Speaker 2: be sniffed out and it would be you know, and

1652
01:18:03,120 --> 01:18:04,960
Speaker 2: then if we can help them as well from the

1653
01:18:05,080 --> 01:18:08,000
Speaker 2: US side, and you know, just continue to pump in

1654
01:18:08,120 --> 01:18:10,719
Speaker 2: revenue to that country and not take it, take their

1655
01:18:10,760 --> 01:18:19,519
Speaker 2: resources and leave them with a Coca Cola sign. We

1656
01:18:19,640 --> 01:18:22,320
Speaker 2: just like take care of them, please, because they're beautiful people.

1657
01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:25,800
Speaker 2: All right. I love a Doo's gonna do most my

1658
01:18:25,840 --> 01:18:31,400
Speaker 2: favorite bro. So nonetheless, I'm saying, thanks.

1659
01:18:31,200 --> 01:18:34,679
Speaker 3: Dad, Oh he brought you brought that into your life.

1660
01:18:35,080 --> 01:18:37,599
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, we grew up in a in a Mormon

1661
01:18:37,680 --> 01:18:41,519
Speaker 2: church in California, and so uh in Stockton, and there

1662
01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:44,360
Speaker 2: was a there was some Filipino families and some Samoans

1663
01:18:44,400 --> 01:18:47,360
Speaker 2: and different families that went to church. So I just

1664
01:18:47,400 --> 01:18:51,240
Speaker 2: grew up eating different fit food, you know, from my

1665
01:18:51,320 --> 01:18:53,080
Speaker 2: mom and dad's friends. We'd go to their houses and

1666
01:18:53,080 --> 01:18:54,680
Speaker 2: it's like here's I'm adobo, you know, and I'm like,

1667
01:18:54,720 --> 01:18:56,720
Speaker 2: it's my favorite. And then my mom would just make

1668
01:18:56,760 --> 01:18:58,720
Speaker 2: it all the time. And then we go over to

1669
01:18:58,760 --> 01:19:00,840
Speaker 2: our friends who are sman and they feed us like

1670
01:19:00,960 --> 01:19:03,800
Speaker 2: rice pudding and like all sorts of good food. And so, yeah, bro,

1671
01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:08,280
Speaker 2: I grew up in a diverse life. My parents, even

1672
01:19:08,320 --> 01:19:10,599
Speaker 2: though we were raised in the church, kind of had

1673
01:19:10,640 --> 01:19:13,240
Speaker 2: a outside of Utah. It was different. I'm not trying

1674
01:19:13,240 --> 01:19:16,599
Speaker 2: to get into this conversation, but I'm grateful for I'm

1675
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:19,040
Speaker 2: grateful for the food that I was able to eat. Yes,

1676
01:19:19,080 --> 01:19:19,559
Speaker 2: I love a dude.

1677
01:19:19,880 --> 01:19:24,200
Speaker 3: That's fantastic.

1678
01:19:24,240 --> 01:19:26,320
Speaker 2: I remember the Internet is forever, so I gotta watch it.

1679
01:19:27,640 --> 01:19:29,600
Speaker 3: The other things want to say, Yeah, that's right. My

1680
01:19:29,720 --> 01:19:30,960
Speaker 3: own advice.

1681
01:19:31,240 --> 01:19:35,639
Speaker 2: Right now, I'm gonna wind us down, Jean. I've had

1682
01:19:35,640 --> 01:19:37,600
Speaker 2: you for over an hour. I know you're in Singapore

1683
01:19:37,640 --> 01:19:39,519
Speaker 2: and you're like, I got you for some time, and

1684
01:19:39,560 --> 01:19:41,800
Speaker 2: I've taken much of your time. But you've been awesome, dude,

1685
01:19:41,800 --> 01:19:44,040
Speaker 2: and you're always walking back on the show. If you

1686
01:19:44,080 --> 01:19:46,519
Speaker 2: ever want to get back on and talk deeper about

1687
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:49,840
Speaker 2: Black Panda, you know, and put that out there as

1688
01:19:49,960 --> 01:19:52,200
Speaker 2: just something we can work spread.

1689
01:19:52,680 --> 01:19:54,639
Speaker 3: I mean, one of the things about Black Panda two

1690
01:19:54,720 --> 01:19:58,960
Speaker 3: is you know the co founders are all s F guys, right,

1691
01:19:59,000 --> 01:20:02,280
Speaker 3: so we were all can now SIFF guys. Actually now,

1692
01:20:02,479 --> 01:20:05,960
Speaker 3: Matt was ahead of us by seventeen years. But the

1693
01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:08,720
Speaker 3: other co founder, Kevin McCaffrey, He was actually on my

1694
01:20:08,800 --> 01:20:11,519
Speaker 3: team when we went to Baghdad together, and then we

1695
01:20:11,560 --> 01:20:15,040
Speaker 3: actually co founded the company together, so it's actually an

1696
01:20:15,280 --> 01:20:18,519
Speaker 3: SF founded company. You know, we just stayed out in Asia.

1697
01:20:18,560 --> 01:20:21,360
Speaker 3: We kind of we like to privately call ourselves like

1698
01:20:21,439 --> 01:20:25,040
Speaker 3: forward deployed still, you know what, like yeah, after we're right,

1699
01:20:25,120 --> 01:20:27,080
Speaker 3: we're like on the front lines out here in cyber

1700
01:20:27,240 --> 01:20:27,880
Speaker 3: out here in Asia.

1701
01:20:27,920 --> 01:20:30,120
Speaker 2: Well, I have you right now, I have you right now.

1702
01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:33,160
Speaker 2: So who's your client? Who would you want to reach

1703
01:20:33,200 --> 01:20:36,519
Speaker 2: out to? Black Panda? Who is that person that would

1704
01:20:36,560 --> 01:20:39,639
Speaker 2: be interested? Let's just put that sure? Sure?

1705
01:20:39,720 --> 01:20:42,800
Speaker 3: I mean our kind of a specialization. I would say

1706
01:20:42,840 --> 01:20:45,000
Speaker 3: in the sector that looks for cybersecar the most are

1707
01:20:45,080 --> 01:20:47,479
Speaker 3: like finance and banking, like banks, you know what I mean,

1708
01:20:47,640 --> 01:20:50,000
Speaker 3: or just basically the folk of the finance sector because

1709
01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:52,519
Speaker 3: they're regulated to the guys who've got the money.

1710
01:20:53,120 --> 01:20:53,320
Speaker 2: Right.

1711
01:20:53,439 --> 01:20:55,320
Speaker 3: So yes, hackers are company and that want to steal

1712
01:20:55,360 --> 01:20:57,840
Speaker 3: their money. Right, So those are the guys that we

1713
01:20:58,000 --> 01:21:03,080
Speaker 3: probably protect and we specialize cybersecurity in essentially a crisis response, right,

1714
01:21:03,120 --> 01:21:05,559
Speaker 3: which is the whole team in my career and I

1715
01:21:05,640 --> 01:21:09,519
Speaker 3: realized not again on purpose, right, but both in public

1716
01:21:09,560 --> 01:21:13,360
Speaker 3: service personal situations and now private sector. It's it's all

1717
01:21:13,360 --> 01:21:15,880
Speaker 3: the same to me, you know, in terms of responding

1718
01:21:16,479 --> 01:21:19,559
Speaker 3: when when something bad bad goes, and that's basically what

1719
01:21:19,600 --> 01:21:22,719
Speaker 3: our company does. Right. We're the leading company for across

1720
01:21:22,760 --> 01:21:23,760
Speaker 3: across the region out here.

1721
01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:26,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, so if any of my listeners out there are

1722
01:21:26,360 --> 01:21:28,439
Speaker 2: in the finance industry and they're looking for somebody to

1723
01:21:28,479 --> 01:21:31,599
Speaker 2: help safeguard their cybersecurity, you should reach out to Black Panda,

1724
01:21:31,760 --> 01:21:34,280
Speaker 2: that's right, and the group and Matt, who's seventeen years

1725
01:21:34,280 --> 01:21:35,360
Speaker 2: older than everybody else.

1726
01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:40,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, he's the youngest. He's the youngest dude out

1727
01:21:40,760 --> 01:21:42,640
Speaker 3: of the three of us though, like in terms of

1728
01:21:42,760 --> 01:21:45,840
Speaker 3: spirit and attitude and securely the most is the most

1729
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:46,360
Speaker 3: fit too.

1730
01:21:46,360 --> 01:21:48,360
Speaker 2: He's like ripped right now. But you figured it out out.

1731
01:21:48,840 --> 01:21:50,760
Speaker 2: We've never met Matt, but I'm sure we will and

1732
01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:52,439
Speaker 2: you're more than welcome to come out here too, and

1733
01:21:52,479 --> 01:21:54,400
Speaker 2: we could talk about age is just the number, bro.

1734
01:21:54,760 --> 01:21:58,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was cool. People come out to Utah to

1735
01:21:58,439 --> 01:21:59,400
Speaker 3: do an in person or anything.

1736
01:21:59,760 --> 01:22:02,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, so pre COVID, you know, I was always doing

1737
01:22:02,439 --> 01:22:04,599
Speaker 2: a lot more in person. I had a studio I

1738
01:22:04,680 --> 01:22:07,679
Speaker 2: was using through Black Rifle Coffee Company back in the day.

1739
01:22:07,760 --> 01:22:09,920
Speaker 2: They're here in Utah. So they're like, Rad, bring your

1740
01:22:10,040 --> 01:22:12,479
Speaker 2: guests in here, and yeah, it was way more personal.

1741
01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:15,400
Speaker 2: And then COVID and then now this medium is here

1742
01:22:15,439 --> 01:22:19,080
Speaker 2: and we've built I have built something off of this

1743
01:22:19,160 --> 01:22:21,559
Speaker 2: with soft Rep. And there's you know, folks that reply

1744
01:22:21,680 --> 01:22:24,120
Speaker 2: to me and the former generals that write me reviews

1745
01:22:24,160 --> 01:22:25,960
Speaker 2: like Rad, that was a good episode. I liked how

1746
01:22:25,960 --> 01:22:28,240
Speaker 2: you treated the guy with his question. I'm like, if

1747
01:22:28,240 --> 01:22:31,280
Speaker 2: these guys are sending me these emails from LinkedIn ands

1748
01:22:31,360 --> 01:22:33,160
Speaker 2: and I'm like, all right, you're good to go. I'm

1749
01:22:33,160 --> 01:22:36,559
Speaker 2: gonna keep doing it. But if you ever came to Utah,

1750
01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:38,320
Speaker 2: we could set up a thing where it's one on

1751
01:22:38,320 --> 01:22:40,799
Speaker 2: one on a snowboard lift and we would just strap

1752
01:22:40,880 --> 01:22:42,040
Speaker 2: in and go snowboarding.

1753
01:22:42,160 --> 01:22:45,400
Speaker 3: I don't know if you do well, let's do snowboard.

1754
01:22:45,479 --> 01:22:48,080
Speaker 3: I'm sure as good as Utah. But yeah, I just

1755
01:22:48,160 --> 01:22:50,280
Speaker 3: I can board. Yeah, oh yeah, I mean I think

1756
01:22:50,560 --> 01:22:52,360
Speaker 3: madd and Kevin would love to come on. You know

1757
01:22:52,400 --> 01:22:54,639
Speaker 3: what I mean, because it's it's we've got some crazy

1758
01:22:54,720 --> 01:22:56,400
Speaker 3: stories as well as you might imagine from when we

1759
01:22:56,479 --> 01:22:59,559
Speaker 3: founded Black Pandemic. Oh of course, you know, guys just.

1760
01:22:59,880 --> 01:23:01,559
Speaker 2: Like well you and I just did you know how

1761
01:23:01,600 --> 01:23:03,360
Speaker 2: we just kind of like went through the dosey dough

1762
01:23:03,400 --> 01:23:05,200
Speaker 2: of how how nice to meet you, you get to know you?

1763
01:23:05,280 --> 01:23:10,479
Speaker 2: You want to play contra? You know what is it?

1764
01:23:10,640 --> 01:23:10,720
Speaker 3: Up?

1765
01:23:10,800 --> 01:23:11,040
Speaker 2: Down?

1766
01:23:11,120 --> 01:23:11,519
Speaker 3: Updown?

1767
01:23:14,040 --> 01:23:16,120
Speaker 2: You know I turned that into a punching. I turned

1768
01:23:16,280 --> 01:23:18,360
Speaker 2: so my coach would be like, all right, everybody, next minute,

1769
01:23:18,400 --> 01:23:20,800
Speaker 2: free bag. I'm like up down, down, left, right, left, right,

1770
01:23:20,840 --> 01:23:22,160
Speaker 2: B A B A slet start.

1771
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:26,840
Speaker 3: Hey, that's probably a great combination, man, Yeah, up, up, down, down,

1772
01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:29,680
Speaker 3: you know, head buddy Boddy, you know, left right, and

1773
01:23:29,760 --> 01:23:31,200
Speaker 3: then I use my six and sevens or like you

1774
01:23:31,240 --> 01:23:32,920
Speaker 3: know my over the tops is my B A B

1775
01:23:33,080 --> 01:23:33,639
Speaker 3: A slex.

1776
01:23:33,520 --> 01:23:37,360
Speaker 2: Start I do. That's cool man, it is it is

1777
01:23:37,720 --> 01:23:39,640
Speaker 2: And you're cool and you're cool, and you know what

1778
01:23:40,320 --> 01:23:42,000
Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm gonna close our show off on a

1779
01:23:42,040 --> 01:23:44,040
Speaker 2: cool note like that. And if anybody wants to know

1780
01:23:44,040 --> 01:23:46,000
Speaker 2: about Black Panda Group, go check it out. If you

1781
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:48,360
Speaker 2: want to know about the second shot written by Gene

1782
01:23:48,360 --> 01:23:51,880
Speaker 2: youn or ge Gene you excuse me, I was gonna say,

1783
01:23:51,920 --> 01:23:56,200
Speaker 2: former Green Beret Special Forces West Point graduate, uh second

1784
01:23:56,280 --> 01:24:06,000
Speaker 2: Armor Officer, tank commander sable rounds down range uop, thank

1785
01:24:06,040 --> 01:24:08,800
Speaker 2: you so much. On behalf of myself and Brandon Webb

1786
01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:12,240
Speaker 2: who runs the website Anton. Thank you for everything you do,

1787
01:24:12,400 --> 01:24:14,559
Speaker 2: Chris and everybody that's making these cool reels out there

1788
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:16,759
Speaker 2: that I get to share on social media. I appreciate

1789
01:24:16,800 --> 01:24:18,960
Speaker 2: you guys chopping it all up and making us look awesome.

1790
01:24:19,200 --> 01:24:21,479
Speaker 2: That'll happen to you too on this episode, so look

1791
01:24:21,520 --> 01:24:25,080
Speaker 2: for that, and thank you on behalf of my guest gen.

1792
01:24:25,240 --> 01:24:26,920
Speaker 2: And this is Rad saying peace.

1793
01:24:42,439 --> 01:24:45,840
Speaker 1: You've been listening to self Repreadia