WEBVTT - Ep. 68: Dick Moves, Redefining the Hunting Narrative & Modern Huntsman's Tyler Sharp 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:04.720 Hey, it's the Hunting Collective. Welcome, We're an episode number 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:06.920 sixty eight is a good one today. I'm pretty excited 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:09.160 about this one. We've got an interview segment of the show. 0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:12.920 We've got Tyler Sharp, the editor in chief of a magazine, 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:15.760 a really well done and thoughtful magazine called Modern Huntsmen, 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:20.320 and that we're got a lion attack story, some other 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:24.480 crazy African stories from Tyler, and we're talking went pretty 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:27.200 deep on redefining the narrative of hunting, which is one 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:30.520 of the missions of Minor Huntsmen. But before we do that, 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:34.479 we had our new editor in chief, Anthony Lakata, on 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:38.720 to talk about exactly that do we need to redefine 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:40.920 the hunting narrative? Who gets to do that? How do 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:44.120 we communicate that. It's a little bit of a complicated topic, 0:00:44.640 --> 0:00:47.120 but it is a good thing to aspire to, but 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:49.440 it's a complicated thing to communicate, so we're gonna cover that. 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:53.800 We also started talking about not only hunting dick moves, 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:58.000 but office dick moves, and our our engineer Phil gave 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:00.160 a couple of really good ones, so you're never le's 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:02.840 stick around for that. Um. But before we get to 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:06.720 all of that. First Light has a really cool new 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:11.640 film out called ursus Idaho. It's a spot in stock 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:15.880 spring bear hunt. It's a really cool film. I just 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:19.320 got done watching it. Its first lights. Paul Peterson, he 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:21.440 drew one of the most covered in spring black bear 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:24.479 tags in the lower forty eight and Paul is he's 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:28.600 a former elk guide um and as a Wisconsin native. 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:32.720 Is his first bear hunt and it's pretty damn entertaining. 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:34.840 So go to first Light dot com and watch that 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:39.760 film ursus Idaho with Paul Peterson. It's pretty cool. I 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:43.800 like it. I think you will too. So without further ado, 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:47.760 we're gonna get to episode number sixty eight. Let's go. 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:57.680 I guess I grew up on in all the road 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:01.919 bet do the medal though, did what I've told until 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:05.000 I found out that my brand new clothes, the games 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:08.079 that can have from the rich kids next door, and 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:10.760 I grew up baths. I guess I grew up. I mean, 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:13.200 there are a thousand things inside of my head I 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:16.160 wish I ain't seen, and now I just wanted to 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:19.400 a real bad dream of being a like I'm coming 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:27.480 apart of the scenes, But thank you Jack Daniel seven Hey, everybody, 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:30.120 welcome to the Hunting Collective. Of course, have been O'Brien, 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:33.800 and you're gonna be hearing this podcast on July. Second. 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:41.080 We're in July. Placata feels like it. Sonny, it's Montana. 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:45.760 Welcome to Montana, by the way, thank you. You're moving 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:47.679 here like the rest of us, meet eaters. I am. 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:51.799 I'm moving here in about a month, so I can't wait. Yeah, 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:55.440 you have some young children that are excited to explore 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:59.600 all that Montana has to offer. Absolutely, took my kids 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:01.520 out fish and this weekend they came for a visit 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:06.400 check out the new hometown, and um, yeah, I just 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:09.560 want to get here while there's still lots to do 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:12.560 there very much until the smoke comes in August. Now 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:14.720 we're not supposed to people tell me. I'm not supposed 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:18.960 to talk so glowingly about Bozeman all the time. So 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:22.000 it's also very cold in the winter. It's snowed two 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:25.600 days before I got here earlier this week, so keep 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:27.720 that in mind. Yeah, I got pulled over by a 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:30.120 cop two months ago, so it's you know, there's some 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:33.639 bad things in Bozeman as well, So I just try 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:36.680 to try to make sure everybody understands. It can be 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:40.080 a terrible place. It's awful. It's awful. Don't come, you know, 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:44.720 like the ski resorts are crowded. Yellowstone, it's just buffalo 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:47.560 everywhere in the road even sometimes how do you even 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:50.720 drive through? You can't drop to these buffalo It's terrible. Hey, Phil, 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:55.960 Phil's back. I'm back. How much hate mail did you get? No? No, haymail? Phil, Um, 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:58.560 that's good. I was wondering if you got recognized anywhere 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:00.800 your voice, you know. Oh yeah, I think I was 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:03.160 just telling you beforehand. I was that was grocery shopping, 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:06.600 and um, you know, I just I I asked the cashier. 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:08.680 I told her I'd like some I like I'd like 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:11.240 plastic bags. And she said, oh, hold on a minute, 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:15.400 the hunting Collective. Yep, yep, of course she did. I said, 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:19.080 you know it, you know it, lady, I'm Phil, It's 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:21.760 Mr Taylor to you. Alright, perfect, Well, that means you 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:24.919 can stay on the show. That's it for you for 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:28.560 the day. Thanks for joining us. Um, we're gonna talk 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:32.080 about I would call some heavy topics, as we always 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:36.520 try to do here on the show. Um, but I'm 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:39.280 trying to figure out I was trying to figure out 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:41.000 a thing we would do. It's the off season. There's 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:43.479 no hunting going on, so we can't tell hunting stories, 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:46.760 so it leaves a lot of dead air. Absolutely, I 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:50.280 can't tell fishing stories. They're boring. We just be like 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:52.000 we were fishing and then we caught it fish that 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:55.560 it's pretty much the whole story, So we can't tell 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:58.240 fishing stories. I'm trying to figure out like a thing 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:03.760 that I can do, like top bullets, top hunters of 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:07.279 all time, to get everybody interested in debating about things, 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:09.960 but I'm not. It's been a long week and I 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:12.400 have no idea. I was gonna plan something. I don't 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:15.960 have anything. Yeah, did you come up with in the 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:19.159 four minutes since you asked me to think about it? Yeah? 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:22.719 Uh no, Right, it's uh, this is a kind of 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:25.560 thing that's real hard to rank, but it's fun, right, 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:28.839 it's fun to think about that stuff. I mean, uh, 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:30.880 that's part of the fun of arguing about it. I mean, 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:33.719 I have my like top stuff. I mean, I think 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:36.599 top things I love to do. Whether they're what you 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:38.960 love to do, I don't really care. They're might top things. 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:41.320 I think they're the best Oh, that's the top reasons 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:46.120 why my things are better than you're right. Maybe top podcasts. 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:51.240 I can think of five really good ones. They're all 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:54.840 they're all on the Mediator Network. It's weird that they're 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:57.760 all the best. It's fine. So anybody right into t 0:05:57.880 --> 0:05:59.560 ac it's meted dot com and help me out. I'm 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:01.480 trying to them up with some real catchy things to 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:06.160 ways to rank and debate about pretty inane topics over 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:09.080 the summer when we're board, So please right in and 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:11.279 give us some ideas. I was gonna have. I was 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:13.200 gonna whip out some real cool thing, but I just 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:16.680 I couldn't think of anything. So I apologize. When you 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:18.719 are stump, that's the thing. Make your audience do the 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:20.960 work for you. That's right, exactly what it's called being 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:23.640 resourceful people. And this is a weekly show. Sometimes I 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:26.560 get tired, Okay, So thank your t HD at the 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:29.520 meter dot com. Please please, um, we're gonna get We're 0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:32.719 gonna start this conversation off. We have an interview. In 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:34.919 the interview portion of the show, we have Tyler Sharp, 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:39.599 who is the well dressed editor in chief of Modern Huntsman. 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:48.039 Modern Huntsman is a glossy yah, wonderfully put together Hunting Magazine, 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:53.280 which I believe is in its third volume, and that 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:55.640 volume is on wildlife management. It should be out by now. 0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:58.080 You should be able to go pick it up. What 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:02.440 makes it interesting is that it's stated mission is to 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:08.080 redefine the hunting narrative. Now, boy, that's a that's a 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:11.160 tall task. Why not set your sights high? I say, 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:15.040 big ambition, big ambition. I once maybe thought that I 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:18.160 could be the one. Since i've I've thought better of it. 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:23.080 Try to be funnier, maybe the feels so we're gonna 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:25.640 we're gonna get into that. But we had a gentleman 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:27.840 right in, and always the people that right in have 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:31.840 um hard to pronounce last names, so that's upsets me. 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:35.000 But this fellow's name is Andy d Russo, sorry if 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:38.080 I mispronounced that Andy, But he wrote in he said, 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:40.480 you asked for some feedback, and here I am giving 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:43.320 it to you. I hope you Ben will continue to 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:47.720 interview people from the industry, even in different views from 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:51.600 yourself and your style, Folks like Michael Waddell, Ted Nugent, 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:55.160 Chuck Adams, Fred Eichler, so on and so forth. I've 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:57.040 had fred Iichler on, So go back and listen to 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:59.520 that one, But the other ones would be interesting. More 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:01.280 of these story is and these amazing people that have 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:05.200 different perspectives and different ways of looking at hunting in 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:12.280 the industry would be interesting. And Andy's from Rogers, Arkansas. Um, yeah, man, 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:15.480 I'm into that idea. Yeah, absolutely, that's what it's all about. 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:18.080 I mean, different perspectives. That's one of the cool things 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:21.800 about what we do. Um, the way I do it 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:23.800 and was raised to do it and do it where 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:27.320 I'm from is different from someone else's experience. That's right. 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:30.160 And that's what That's why I name this thing the 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:32.040 hunting collective, because I'm like, well, if we can if 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:36.080 we can somehow learn the collective perspectives and understand different 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:39.080 parts of our community, why people think the way they do, 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:41.040 and why they act the way they do, and why 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:42.959 they value what they value, then maybe we can be 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:46.760 better at thinking about hunting and analyzing the way we 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:48.520 do things. So thank you frightning, Andy. And that's a 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:53.920 good bridge to the topic of of modern huntsmen and 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:57.360 the stated purpose of redefining the hunting narrative. And at 0:08:57.360 --> 0:08:59.560 first we could just say Look, how do you feel 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:02.760 like we need to redefine the hunting narrative. I'm not 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:06.880 even sure what that means exactly. Um, you know, is 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:10.680 there a hunting narrative that we all agree on? Um? 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:13.640 You know, does that mean really what we do or 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:16.160 or how we explain it to people? I'm not quite 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:19.920 sure what that means. Yeah, And and Tyler explains it 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:23.160 um from his perspective and explains it well. But I 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:26.720 think that from his perspective, the narrative is the narrative 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:29.360 that's being imposed on our community rather than the narrative 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:32.000 that we've created. Right, So the narrative being imposed on 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:35.000 our community has to do with trophy hunting, It has 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:41.439 to do um with murdering animals, like the negative stereotypical 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:43.720 things that are applied to hunting. That's what he's talking about. 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:47.920 That's redefining that narrative, but also redefining what hunting means 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:51.439 inside the community. It kind of shined the spotlight around 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:54.760 and seeing what's there, right, saying, oh, what's over there? 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:58.400 There's a guy doing something that I don't like personally, 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:01.760 don't like and don't don't aspect. Is it my job 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:04.320 to call that person out or is it my job 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:07.920 to to do what I think is right and show 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:10.280 by example. So we we run into I've run into this, 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:12.560 I'm sure you have in your career kind of run 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:17.040 into Steve's analogy, Ronella's analogy, which is shooting holes in 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:18.720 the boat. If somebody's in you're in the boat with somebody, 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:21.160 they're shooting holes in and you're certainly gonna make him 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:23.800 walk the plank. And so you have that analogy with 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:26.360 the other analogy is what makes you the judge and jury, 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:28.240 what makes you the person to raise your hand up 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:31.000 and say I'm right or I'm wrong, or this is 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:36.120 right or this is wrong. How how do we do that? Yeah, 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:39.600 that's a really good point. It's, Um, I think it's obvious, right. 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:41.800 I think that's the shooting holes in the boat is 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:45.800 a very clear, a very smart way to think about it, right. 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:48.040 But it does get a little bit tricky when there's 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:50.679 some things that there are people who are never gonna 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:54.360 like the hunting narrative. No matter what we do, we 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:57.840 could do it in a way that, um, you know, 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:01.880 we think is the best possible narrative for us, people 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:04.400 are still going to hate it. Um, that's not to 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:07.800 say that we shouldn't you know, care about that narrative. 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:10.240 We do. We all know that hunters are a very 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:14.200 small minority in this country and we need the public to, 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:18.240 if not support us, at least respect it and let 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:24.520 us do our thing. Um, you know, so that that's yeah, 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.760 it's embodied. We just had the super top secret content 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:30.319 project that we did yesterday, and it's a body in 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:32.240 the conversation around like where do we limit or how 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:34.840 do we limit our communication? And who can tell? Who 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:36.360 is the one to be able to say like don't 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:39.320 do that? And can we You know, I'm not a 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:42.280 big grip and grand guy anymore. I was at one time. 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:44.920 I am not now. Um, And I've said my piece 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:47.160 on why I think that's that needs to be the way. 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:51.120 But I think that argument just kind of embodies this conversation. Yeah, 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:54.880 that's right. It's it's a pretty tall order to to 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:58.240 for for someone or a small group of people to say, hey, this, 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:00.960 this is what the hunting narrative should be, this is 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:03.800 what it should look like to the outside world. Um, 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:05.599 as we said, as you said earlier, it's it's the 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:09.559 hunting collective, right. We all come from different backgrounds and um, 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:11.800 cheating holes in the boat should be pretty obvious. But 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:14.080 there's some things that, hey, it might not be my thing, 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:19.920 but um, if it's done in a way that um 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:25.360 is respectful to the resource, um uh, it's good for 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:27.880 the environment. You know, kind of embodies what hunting is 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.480 all about, even if it's not my thing. Um. You know, 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:32.200 I don't know. Do we need to worry about what 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:36.240 someone else thinks about that? Yeah? Yeah, And and I 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:38.679 think it's a generational you know, Tyler and I are 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:41.280 about the same agement thirties, guys like it might just 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:46.080 be a generational thing. We feel the pressure, as you know, 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:50.000 as folks whose parents didn't have that same pressure, and 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:51.920 my dad didn't have the pressure of social media and 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:53.640 the pressure of like, how are people going to take 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:56.079 in this image that I've shared or this he didn't 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:59.120 Right there was the bagboard at the local gas station 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:01.200 and the act of his truck when he checked the 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:03.160 deer in and then I never saw it in the 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:04.800 garage before they cut it up and ate it. So 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:08.640 there just wasn't that pressure to continually think about how 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:11.559 we speak about hunting or at what we do, and 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:13.360 it can be a not I don't want to beat 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:15.719 people over the head of these ideas. But man, when 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:17.600 somebody like Tyler comes along and you'll hear in a 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:23.240 minute he says some things that, um, even for my taste, 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:26.240 was like, WHOA, alright, cool, I'm glad, Like that's pretty 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:28.960 blunt that, you know, to make an analogy of Like 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:31.839 you know, sometimes when you get older, you stay on 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:33.600 the porch and let somebody else figure out how to 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:38.560 go forward. Um, I mean, that's that's people. I know 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:40.480 people will get prickly about that. When I when I 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:42.199 heard him say it, I'm like, I know Tyler, know 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:43.640 him to be a good dude, So I'm like, oh, 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:46.240 he you know, he's making his point. He's making it 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:49.960 pretty firmly. Yeah, I mean, that's that's a pretty tough 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:52.280 thing to to say to people. Uh, you know who 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:55.480 have been there before, you have been doing this a 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:58.520 long time, who have um in one way or another 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:02.439 advanced hunting and been the backbone of it. To tell him, well, 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:04.839 your time has passed the way you did it, you 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:06.960 should just stay on the porch. Man. I don't know. 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:10.800 I don't have I don't have the personal feelings I 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:13.680 feel like I could tell anybody that. In the mission 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:17.480 statement for for for Modern Huntcement, it says it's born 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:20.720 out of frustration with the way hunting is often misrepresented today. 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:24.400 This publication is told from the perspective hunting purists and 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:28.440 the and the diplomatically minded, unaltered by the excuse of 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:36.120 mainstream media, corporate interests, or misinformed emotional rants. I mean that, yeah, 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:41.880 what's your reaction, Uh, big ambition, ambition, it's you know, 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:47.200 look without knowing. Um, that kind of sets you up 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.240 to like you better have good arguments for for everything 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:53.120 you're saying, and what's right and what's wrong. I myself, like, 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:58.160 you know, I'm I'm pretty clear about what is good 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:00.920 for hunting and what is and and doing things in 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:03.600 an ethical, fair chase way and and always putting the 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:08.040 resource first, you know. But when I think about things 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:11.920 that how hunting is portrayed, um or if it looks 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:15.640 bad to the outside. UM, I feel a little uncomfortable 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:18.320 making that call for someone. I mean, if if somebody's 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:20.160 doing it the right way and someone takes it the 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:22.880 wrong way, I'm not sure that I want to tell 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:25.320 them not to do it. You know, my kids preschool, 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:29.760 they have this Uh yeah, I'm talking about my kids preschool, 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:33.160 right right, where's he going? Now? This is that's where 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:35.000 I get all my knowledge. Right. But they have this 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:37.920 thing where they say, don't yuck someone else's yum. Right, 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:41.960 some kid pulls out their lunch and some other kids like, yeah, 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:44.960 that's gross, and you know the kid's eating it and 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:47.200 he likes it. And I feel like that's kind of 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:49.520 a way I look at things. There's some things in 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:51.920 and hunting that aren't my cup of tea. Now I 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:55.560 don't like to do them, but they are good. You know, 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:57.880 they don't do anything bad. They don't shoot any holes 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:00.280 in the boat. And if it's something that gets people 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:02.840 outside and that they enjoy doing, even if it's not 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:05.320 my thing, I'm not gonna yuck their yum. Yeah, I 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:09.200 mean you're gonna like that hashtag yuck my yum. I 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:13.680 hope that's not. That's not hashtag yet. No, I like that, 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:16.200 and I don't like I struggle with that all the time. 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:19.240 Like as a person, I'm not I don't getting people's business. 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:21.440 I don't want to getting somebody's business and tell them 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:23.800 how to better do the thing that they're doing. I'd 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:26.200 be like, trust that they've thought it through and either 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:29.400 will or won't find a better way to communicate if 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:31.320 that's the goal. I mean, I think it starts. It 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:33.640 starts with yourself, right, and I think maybe that that's 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:36.560 what they're trying to do with minor huntsmen, right, And 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:38.800 that's great. And if you're going to be the example 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:43.080 of how you think um hunting narrative should be to 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:46.360 the outside world, great, but you do that by being 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:50.520 an example and not necessarily by pushing other people back 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:53.200 up onto the porch or whatever. You kind of lead 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:55.560 the way. Yeah, right, Like I said, I mean, I don't, 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:59.120 this isn't this is no way down and like you'll 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:00.840 and you'll hear in the interview think the Mono Hunsban 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:03.520 magazine is fans. Yeah, I do too. I think it's 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:06.280 very good. It's so fantastic and well done, well written, 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:09.760 well photographed, well designed. It is it is well done. Yeah, 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:12.560 it's it's really great and I have nothing wrong. I 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:15.720 have no problem with that ambition right to do better. 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:17.879 So we're always trying to do better, and we should 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:19.800 as a community try to do better. It's just like 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:22.800 how do you the question? And this could be seen 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:25.000 as kind of frivolous. But the question is like, how 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:28.000 do you express that feeling? Like, Dude, I see some 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:30.719 ship I don't like. I see some things I'm not 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:34.680 real into. I think they're shooting holes in the boat. 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:39.280 What what is my role in fixing that? You know? 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:41.399 And so I think we all just take on different 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:43.840 versions of that. The way I try to take it 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:46.400 on is, as I said, kind of lead by example. 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:48.680 I'm gonna do it my way. Um, I'm gonna tell 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:50.960 people this is why I do it, and this is 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:53.440 how I do it. I'm going to try to try 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:55.159 to change the narrative that way. And if that's how 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:57.880 they're doing it, I think that's that's the right approach. Yeah. 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:02.240 And my my thing for sure is, um, just starting 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:04.679 the conversation. If I don't like something, I'm gonna go 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:06.920 I'm gonna run right over to it. I'm gonna stand 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:08.560 there and be like, who can I have a conversation 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:11.560 with about this thing? And I'm gonna ask some tough questions. 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:15.520 I'll probably um, my opinion will probably change over that time. 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:18.679 But the best way that I can think of to 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:21.199 both understand the perspective of somebody you don't agree with 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:23.280 and think might be shooting holes in the boat, but 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:27.399 also too, you know, to make sure that there are 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:29.119 any holes in your boat is to go over there 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:30.400 and be like, what are you doing with that gun? 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:34.080 Why is it pointing towards the whole I'm going to 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:37.560 shoot in the air? Um, just questioning like, what's the 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:40.600 motivation here? Why is it good? And I and then 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:42.399 I think the next episode of the podcast, for a 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:45.440 future episode will have a vegan philosopher on. That's gonna 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:49.359 be fun for everybody, hopefully. Um. And he asked me 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:52.159 about trophy hunting, and I just said, look, it's complicated. 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:53.840 He's like, what are you willing to say that all 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:58.400 trophy hunting is bad? I'm like, boy, no, it's complicated 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:02.320 like that. Am I Am I against all a holes? Yeah? 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:05.960 Because because there he's just applying. All he was doing 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:08.119 was applying the word trophy hunting to somebody that he 0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:10.679 didn't like. So if you say, Ben, are you against 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:15.119 all campers that litter yep? Right, yeah, sure, but that 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:18.840 has nothing to do with the overall like acceptance of 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:21.680 camping or putting a tent up somewhere and sitting out 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:23.720 in the first and the hot dog. It's like, yeah, 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:26.000 I'm if somebody just wants to cut the head off 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:30.280 a deer and take it home, and I guess yeah. 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:31.960 But the other point I made to him was why 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:35.080 it's even more complicated because our system of game laws 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:36.960 and are pretty much sets it up so that even 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:39.240 if the guy is an asshole, he is still doing 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:42.800 good for the resource. He can't help it. Even if 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:45.280 he's an a hole, even if he's all he wants 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:46.840 to do is shoot a deer, cut its head off, 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:48.440 take it home and show it to his friends, throwing 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:51.320 the garbage. He's paid into a system that are going 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:54.480 to make sure more deer are around. So we also 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:57.560 have that to fall back on, because we we we 0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:00.159 we can't just kick out everybody we think might be 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:05.560 you know that guy. Absolutely, I mean trophy hunting. We 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:08.280 shouldn't even get into that because it's so complicated, right, 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:10.560 What does that mean? Because I like to kill big 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:13.800 deer and have some some nice European mounts on the wall, 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:17.399 that makes me a trophy hunter to this guy, probably, 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:20.320 But he I also feed on my family on venison, 0:20:20.400 --> 0:20:24.520 and UM also feed um some good friend of mines 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:27.439 of vegetarian who only eats the meat I kill, So 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:30.800 I don't know that's technically vegetarian or not. But um, 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:35.240 you know, venison diplomacy is as Ronella says, but um, 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:39.160 you know to make that call is is pretty tough. Yeah, 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:42.000 it's how do you do that? What's it mean? This 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:44.880 goes well into an article that ran on the meat 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:47.960 eater dot com and this is way more insular, but 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:50.200 it still has a lot to do with how do 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:52.399 you call people out? It's called it is written by 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:54.399 one Stephen Ronell is called the biggest dick moves a 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:56.760 hunter can make. You should go read that over the 0:20:56.800 --> 0:20:59.600 meter dot com if you have a quick five minutes. 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:02.359 It's a quick one. But he's got some examples here 0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:08.000 spots stealing. I mean that's pretty obvious spotting, spot exposing, 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:10.479 which I do on this podcast all the time. That's 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:13.120 why I take a little bit of We have a 0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:16.199 segment called hot spot, cool dude or gal, depending on 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:19.240 who's on the podcast, where I asked people to expose 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:23.119 their spots and it's selfish. Is that is that a 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:27.119 dick move? Are you? Um? Bringing more people into the 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:30.639 sport and more opportunity? Dude? That was deep. That's exactly 0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:32.240 what we're talking about. It's just how you look at 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:35.119 I'm trying to be democratic, right, some people are mad 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:36.960 at me because I'm giving their spots away, right, it 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:38.919 will be selfish? Yeah? Am I gonna be selfish and 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:41.399 keep this spot to myself? Or if I I know 0:21:41.480 --> 0:21:44.399 someone who's trying to get into hunting or needs to 0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:45.840 get out and has nowhere to go, and I tell 0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:48.359 him where to go? Um, you know, yeah, this is 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:49.600 what the point of Pisces where I would like to 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:54.119 bring Phil and Phil what do you think? Uh? You know, 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:57.600 I I'm not much of a hunting you know philosopher. 0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:06.000 Okay something your job is to say something profound. Okay, great, 0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:09.520 you hired the right guy. Anybody could be a hunting philosopher. Yeah, 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:13.160 look at me, I I mean you you just said 0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:15.040 what Anthony said with profound it does it bring more 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:18.280 people in and give them more opportunities. From where I stand, 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:20.199 which is very far away from this, I'd say that 0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:23.840 that's a good point of view. Thanks Phil. Thanks, I'll 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:26.440 check back in with you a little bit later. Appreciate 0:22:26.440 --> 0:22:32.720 that we're gonna get Phil's getting I love you, Phil? Uh. 0:22:32.960 --> 0:22:38.199 Not cleaning game is one of Steve's dick moves. Oh yeah, yeah, 0:22:38.240 --> 0:22:41.440 I mean, yeah right, I'm want to change the title 0:22:41.480 --> 0:22:44.760 this to Steve's obvious dick moves. No one should ever 0:22:44.800 --> 0:22:47.679 even do sleeping in another one. Oh if that's like 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:51.280 sleeping in, yes, I think he maybe is he arguing 0:22:51.320 --> 0:22:55.639 for sleeping in? No, except I will say, Um, I 0:22:55.680 --> 0:22:58.760 know Steve's talked about this. I've heard it. Um, I 0:22:58.760 --> 0:23:01.040 don't sleep in when I tricked hunt because I feel 0:23:01.080 --> 0:23:04.320 like I want to be there at you know, before 0:23:04.400 --> 0:23:07.200 dawn obviously when the you first hear the birds off 0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:10.920 the roof, off the roost. But um, there was sometimes 0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:13.200 a couple of years ago where I could not hunt 0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:14.800 first thing in the morning, so that some things that 0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:17.399 had going on, and I killed more turkeys when I 0:23:17.440 --> 0:23:19.159 started going at nine. As this is the truth. The 0:23:19.160 --> 0:23:22.440 truth about that is most turkeys are not getting killed 0:23:22.440 --> 0:23:24.639 off the roost like you. I've killed a few, but 0:23:24.680 --> 0:23:26.600 I've killed the ball of them at nine o'clock after 0:23:26.600 --> 0:23:28.400 they've gotten off the roost, got settled where they want 0:23:28.400 --> 0:23:30.040 to be, and then I can make a play or whatever. 0:23:30.240 --> 0:23:32.800 But yeah, hunt them off the roost is a get, 0:23:32.960 --> 0:23:34.640 it's a game. But but it is cool to see 0:23:35.400 --> 0:23:37.520 the tree and just like I'll just get up under 0:23:37.560 --> 0:23:38.879 the I know he's gonna fly over there and I'm 0:23:38.880 --> 0:23:40.439 not gonna kill him, but it's cool to hear him 0:23:40.480 --> 0:23:42.920 in the truthy goblin And you know you can't sleep 0:23:42.920 --> 0:23:45.040 in as a hunter. That's the only thing I can 0:23:45.040 --> 0:23:46.560 really get up for. To be honest with you, I 0:23:46.600 --> 0:23:48.880 have a heart. Yeah, I'm wanna like if you're like, hey, 0:23:49.040 --> 0:23:51.600 four am, oh, there's a soccer game on London, I'm like, no, 0:23:51.840 --> 0:23:53.520 I'm not. I'm not gonna I'm gonna hit the snooze 0:23:53.560 --> 0:23:56.600 button kind of guy. Except when it comes to hunting fishing. Yes, 0:23:56.800 --> 0:23:59.400 I don't know. There's a couple other ones here. I 0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:03.760 I know I got one, which is just saying like 0:24:03.800 --> 0:24:07.520 I got this, I got this bird when you know 0:24:07.720 --> 0:24:09.960 you probably don't have it. Yeah. I mean sometimes you 0:24:10.000 --> 0:24:11.720 gotta throw a guy a bone when he's having a 0:24:11.760 --> 0:24:15.920 bad day. Yeah you got it, especially especially a duck 0:24:15.960 --> 0:24:19.360 hunting when when two or three birds fall and he's 0:24:19.359 --> 0:24:23.040 like I think I got one of those, Like yeah, bro, yeah, 0:24:23.200 --> 0:24:25.280 A little pat on the back for guys, guy who 0:24:25.320 --> 0:24:28.840 struggling a little bit, you did it for you See, 0:24:28.840 --> 0:24:32.119 that's a non dick move by us brand new boots. 0:24:33.040 --> 0:24:36.920 Yeah yeah, and then complaining with no action, which we've 0:24:36.960 --> 0:24:40.440 kind of covered here, um a little bit. But those 0:24:40.480 --> 0:24:46.080 are all Dick moves. You have any other dick mops? Um? Yeah, 0:24:46.720 --> 0:24:49.160 I think it's kind of a dick movie. Just bragg 0:24:49.720 --> 0:24:52.800 right when you're when you're bragging about what you did. Look, man, 0:24:52.880 --> 0:24:55.720 you have a great hunt. Whether that means you killed 0:24:55.840 --> 0:24:58.639 a big deer or really got back in there and 0:24:58.680 --> 0:25:00.680 got it done. That's good for you and you should 0:25:00.720 --> 0:25:03.239 be happy about it. But there's I don't know how 0:25:03.240 --> 0:25:04.879 to put it into words, but you know, you know 0:25:04.920 --> 0:25:09.560 what when you see it. When I was I was 0:25:09.640 --> 0:25:11.919 she hunting in the Northwest, terrices, I remember when I 0:25:11.960 --> 0:25:16.440 was in Nepal. Right, it was hard. See you brought 0:25:16.520 --> 0:25:19.240 it up. Yeah, I do that all the time. I 0:25:20.359 --> 0:25:22.760 can't help either. I can't help it. I'm so I'm 0:25:22.840 --> 0:25:27.920 so great. Yeah I think I am. I think after 0:25:27.920 --> 0:25:29.679 recording myself for a year and a half, I just 0:25:29.720 --> 0:25:34.880 realized that I'm a dick. But but yeah, I mean 0:25:35.000 --> 0:25:37.040 you're talking to a guy no matter what you say, like, oh, 0:25:37.119 --> 0:25:38.720 you know, my dad and I we love to go 0:25:38.840 --> 0:25:42.680 feessant hunt yep, yep. By peasant hunt, Yep, I'm killing 0:25:42.680 --> 0:25:44.600 I killed my limit every time I go Hey, no, 0:25:44.720 --> 0:25:48.280 I listen. This is my biggest dick move that I 0:25:48.440 --> 0:25:52.680 that bugs me is when somebody, whether it's a kid 0:25:53.440 --> 0:25:57.879 or a grown man or woman, kills a buck and 0:25:57.960 --> 0:26:00.080 someone says to that person, boy, he would have and 0:26:00.240 --> 0:26:06.760 something else in another two years lost. Man. You know, listen, 0:26:06.800 --> 0:26:10.800 I respect the idea of you know, hunting mature animals 0:26:10.800 --> 0:26:14.080 and proper wildlife management, and but that's an evolution that 0:26:14.160 --> 0:26:16.639 I think. Um, a lot of hunters have to go 0:26:16.680 --> 0:26:18.679 through on their own. And even if you never go 0:26:18.760 --> 0:26:22.720 through it, that's all right. You know. My my father, Um, 0:26:22.840 --> 0:26:25.359 he gets out and not as much as he used to. 0:26:25.800 --> 0:26:28.600 And I mean he's gonna kill a small buck, and 0:26:28.640 --> 0:26:30.880 I'm somebody's gonna be like, oh boy, dad, that one 0:26:30.920 --> 0:26:34.000 would have been great next year. No, man, he's out there. 0:26:34.040 --> 0:26:36.399 He had a great time. Like when you say that 0:26:36.480 --> 0:26:40.439 to people, I just think you're you're taking a moment 0:26:40.480 --> 0:26:43.560 that was meaningful to them and you're kind of, you know, 0:26:43.680 --> 0:26:46.880 crapping on it. Being a dick. That's what you're doing. Yeah, 0:26:46.880 --> 0:26:48.080 that's a good one. Let's see what I can think 0:26:48.080 --> 0:26:51.320 of one. Um, that's what. That's a really good one though, 0:26:51.480 --> 0:26:54.680 that may be the biggest. And then there's another one 0:26:54.720 --> 0:26:57.080 where like a guy might be watching a TV show 0:26:57.880 --> 0:27:00.520 and a and a child might kill a giant animal, 0:27:01.000 --> 0:27:04.280 and the first thing is like whatever, only because they're rich, 0:27:05.040 --> 0:27:07.560 because dad has money. They don't deserve that. What do 0:27:07.560 --> 0:27:11.320 you mean, right you? Weren't there a right that person? 0:27:11.480 --> 0:27:13.280 You know, if my dad was rich and he took 0:27:13.280 --> 0:27:14.880 me run around the world to kill stuff, I would 0:27:14.880 --> 0:27:18.400 have loved it. Bring the criticism on all day. That's 0:27:18.440 --> 0:27:21.360 just jealousy, pure and simple. It's like just pure jel 0:27:21.440 --> 0:27:24.480 I can't whoa that that little kid didn't earn that kud? Well, 0:27:24.640 --> 0:27:28.520 what little kid earns a coup? No, But they're they're 0:27:28.600 --> 0:27:30.000 lucky to have a dad that would take him to 0:27:30.040 --> 0:27:32.240 do that. If you think, dude, if I could do 0:27:32.320 --> 0:27:33.920 that with my kid, I mean, I took my kid 0:27:33.960 --> 0:27:36.480 to Alaska two years ago fishing. That's awesome. I mean, 0:27:36.920 --> 0:27:39.840 how dare how dare I? You just gave your spot 0:27:39.880 --> 0:27:45.639 away but unbelievable. Don't go to Laska. Don't there's bugs? 0:27:46.880 --> 0:27:49.840 I feel you have any uh any dick moves and 0:27:49.960 --> 0:27:51.480 just you can go since you're not a hunter. Just 0:27:51.520 --> 0:27:53.760 in general, like things people do around the office. Maybe 0:27:53.840 --> 0:27:56.639 maybe office that's a good Maybe that's a good office 0:27:56.680 --> 0:27:59.879 dick moves. Let's get that on. Yeah, well someone just 0:28:00.119 --> 0:28:02.480 left a bunch of Pickle Barrel sandwiches and the fridge. 0:28:02.520 --> 0:28:07.399 Pickle Barrel is a local sandwich shop. Yeah, very tasty, 0:28:07.560 --> 0:28:12.240 notoriously smelly, very the onions are heavy, and they just 0:28:12.320 --> 0:28:14.719 left him in the fridge uncovered, and then the fridge 0:28:14.760 --> 0:28:17.480 smelled like like like onions, very very you know. But 0:28:17.560 --> 0:28:20.320 that was a light one light dick move. Yeah, I 0:28:20.359 --> 0:28:23.720 got I have to fess up. One of those sandwiches. 0:28:23.840 --> 0:28:27.920 Was they also they're big sandwiches, They're big, I can 0:28:27.960 --> 0:28:31.080 only have they are smelly. I was like, did you 0:28:31.080 --> 0:28:33.800 put them in uncovered? No? I did even something even worse. 0:28:33.960 --> 0:28:36.760 I left my half eating sandwich on the conference table 0:28:36.800 --> 0:28:38.719 and left and someone else put it in the fridge. 0:28:39.040 --> 0:28:41.880 So yeah, that's a pretty dick move. Yeah, well I 0:28:41.920 --> 0:28:45.120 had another meeting. I'm sorry, listen, I said it was 0:28:45.160 --> 0:28:47.680 a light dick move, you know, Yeah that was me. Okay, 0:28:47.720 --> 0:28:52.080 I'll take ownership for that. Let's keep going. Let's Anthony's dumb. 0:28:53.200 --> 0:28:56.080 I will say I did one. Yesterday. We were filming 0:28:56.080 --> 0:28:57.480 the thing, and you know, they have the lights on you, 0:28:57.520 --> 0:28:59.520 and it's all they want you to look good, and 0:28:59.520 --> 0:29:01.400 then they can if we ate lunch, and then we're 0:29:01.400 --> 0:29:04.480 continued filming. They gave us floss to make sure we 0:29:04.480 --> 0:29:06.440 don't have anything in our teeth for the filming. And 0:29:06.480 --> 0:29:08.680 I did the floss and then I set it down 0:29:08.680 --> 0:29:11.720 on the table and I walked away. Did you clip 0:29:11.760 --> 0:29:14.960 your toe nails too, that's nasty? Yeah, yeah, so and 0:29:15.000 --> 0:29:17.400 then Ronella goes, did you just leave your floss on 0:29:17.440 --> 0:29:20.400 the table as a noe? And I put in my 0:29:20.440 --> 0:29:25.560 pocket and I walked away. Nope, won't me slowly shuffled 0:29:25.560 --> 0:29:29.760 away in shame? Any other office? You guys, you both 0:29:29.760 --> 0:29:32.239 are relatively new to the office, relatively new. Well, this 0:29:32.280 --> 0:29:34.880 guy keeps having me on his podcast and tries to 0:29:34.920 --> 0:29:38.080 get me to sound smart, and it's impossible you're gonna 0:29:38.080 --> 0:29:43.200 be a hunting philosopher. By the time, I was thinking 0:29:43.200 --> 0:29:44.640 that that was an obvious when you get this guy 0:29:44.680 --> 0:29:46.560 keeps putting on this podcast and try it puts me 0:29:46.600 --> 0:29:50.520 in tough spots. It's really rough. Yeah, what other office? 0:29:50.560 --> 0:29:54.160 I like this topic? We're gonna probably cut out Tyler's 0:29:54.160 --> 0:29:55.760 and sorry, Tyler, We're gonna put you in a different 0:29:55.760 --> 0:29:58.080 We're gonna do another hour and a half just on office. 0:29:59.080 --> 0:30:02.120 What's the other you know, other office moves. People's dogs 0:30:02.280 --> 0:30:06.080 sometimes are just not We have a dog friendly office, 0:30:06.240 --> 0:30:08.320 and there's some people who know you know who you are. 0:30:09.160 --> 0:30:11.720 You're thinking, is he talking about me? I'm probably talking 0:30:11.720 --> 0:30:16.240 about you. Your dog is annoying. Are you talking about 0:30:16.280 --> 0:30:18.719 the meeting we had earlier day where some of us, 0:30:19.040 --> 0:30:20.760 right in the middle of a really important point, the 0:30:20.800 --> 0:30:26.040 dog comes into the table biting her wrists. Don't She's 0:30:26.080 --> 0:30:28.960 trying to carry on with her point. And I don't 0:30:28.960 --> 0:30:30.680 want to tell you guys, but during the whole meeting, 0:30:30.680 --> 0:30:34.040 that same dog was licking my toes and I was 0:30:34.040 --> 0:30:35.720 like what. I was like, No, I'm kind of I'm 0:30:35.760 --> 0:30:40.040 not I'm not hating it. I'm into it a little bit. 0:30:40.600 --> 0:30:43.600 Uh So, Yeah, there's that. That's one. The dog thing. 0:30:43.640 --> 0:30:45.520 The food thing is tough because we cook a lot 0:30:45.520 --> 0:30:47.920 of weird stuff. We cook crow with cook Mountain Lion, 0:30:48.320 --> 0:30:51.920 cooking bear today, and so it's a tough one. The 0:30:52.000 --> 0:30:56.760 smell because our desk Anthony are like right right in 0:30:56.800 --> 0:30:59.720 the danger zone for the if a guy was to 0:30:59.800 --> 0:31:02.880 burn earned the meat. You know. Well, I used to 0:31:02.880 --> 0:31:05.120 work in New York City and one of my favorite 0:31:05.240 --> 0:31:08.520 cheap lunches was to eat meat you know called street meat, right, 0:31:08.600 --> 0:31:12.000 big plate of like um Middle Eastern food with the 0:31:12.120 --> 0:31:17.080 rice and onions. It was delicious. But man, everybody else like, 0:31:17.160 --> 0:31:19.840 hey got some street meat today, did you? It's coming 0:31:19.840 --> 0:31:23.400 out of your pores. It's going out of your pores. Yeah, 0:31:24.240 --> 0:31:28.600 all right, Phil, give us one more office dick move. Well, 0:31:28.640 --> 0:31:31.360 I was just thinking about the street meat because I can. 0:31:31.440 --> 0:31:35.080 I can relate to that I got. I've only been 0:31:35.080 --> 0:31:37.040 to New York twice, but one time my one of 0:31:37.080 --> 0:31:40.280 my friends like, we're going to Halal guys at two 0:31:40.360 --> 0:31:43.960 am or whatever I was he ordered for me because 0:31:43.960 --> 0:31:46.800 I had no idea, and yeah, I couldn't get it 0:31:46.840 --> 0:31:49.240 out of my skin for about a week. It was. 0:31:49.960 --> 0:31:57.520 It's it's like, oh, yeah, I'm not sure this is 0:31:57.560 --> 0:31:59.320 an office dick move, but you brought it up by 0:31:59.320 --> 0:32:01.880 talking about the dog. Look at your feet. This is 0:32:01.920 --> 0:32:05.840 a flip flop friendly office man everybody has and like 0:32:05.960 --> 0:32:08.840 slipping them off and some bare feet. Yeah I did 0:32:09.360 --> 0:32:12.160 say I did put my feet have we have a megadesk, 0:32:12.240 --> 0:32:14.920 you and I and I did take my flops off 0:32:14.920 --> 0:32:17.880 and put my feet on my desk. Was that today? Maybe? Yes, 0:32:18.120 --> 0:32:22.640 I didn't see that, thank you. Oh you weren't there there. 0:32:23.600 --> 0:32:27.200 But I mean I was actually chided by my co 0:32:27.400 --> 0:32:30.320 workers for not wearing flip flops soon enough. Well, dude, 0:32:30.320 --> 0:32:33.240 I came two days ago and I'm wearing my blunt 0:32:33.280 --> 0:32:35.480 stone boots that I wear all the time. I saw 0:32:35.960 --> 0:32:38.440 more than one person look at my feet in judgment, 0:32:38.600 --> 0:32:41.000 being like, dudes not wearing flip flops. It's like six 0:32:41.200 --> 0:32:43.640 degrees that he should have flipp People in mind are 0:32:43.680 --> 0:32:46.120 so excited when the sun comes out, they're just like shirtless. 0:32:46.320 --> 0:32:49.040 I was like, it's forty eight degrees, calm down. Why 0:32:49.040 --> 0:32:53.160 don't wearing shorts? Bro? Like, I don't know, Yeah, that's 0:32:53.200 --> 0:32:55.000 that's not what we do. So yeah, there's a lot 0:32:55.000 --> 0:32:57.680 of judgments. Um, we've gone off the rails we have, 0:32:57.880 --> 0:32:59.600 which I really like. But I'm trying to change the 0:32:59.720 --> 0:33:05.040 narrow if the mediator office is really what I'm change refine, 0:33:05.600 --> 0:33:07.880 So you're trying to redefine the mediator office narrative? What's 0:33:07.880 --> 0:33:11.560 the current nator flips and dogs flip flops and dogs, 0:33:11.720 --> 0:33:14.640 which there's only a few. If there's only a few 0:33:14.720 --> 0:33:17.440 ways that I could tell the story about the dog 0:33:17.560 --> 0:33:20.120 licking my toes in the office because there's not a 0:33:20.200 --> 0:33:21.640 lot of people here. Maybe you're listening to this in 0:33:21.680 --> 0:33:23.440 your office. Have you ever had a dog with your 0:33:23.440 --> 0:33:26.880 toes during a meeting when you're giving like some real 0:33:26.920 --> 0:33:29.560 impoor monologue about content and then there's like a dog 0:33:29.640 --> 0:33:32.120 just down there. It's going to town. And then I'm 0:33:32.160 --> 0:33:34.280 thinking it's distracting me because I'm thinking, why is he 0:33:34.360 --> 0:33:38.240 licking my toes? What is all my toes that I 0:33:38.480 --> 0:33:41.760 took a shower? What's all my toes that shouldn't be there? Yeah, 0:33:42.160 --> 0:33:47.080 we're shoes. Yeah. So I'm gonna leave you guys with 0:33:47.120 --> 0:33:50.720 that that thought. What was all my toes? Right in 0:33:50.840 --> 0:33:54.160 and let us what you think top five things that 0:33:54.200 --> 0:33:57.400 you think might have been all my toes? We're really 0:33:57.440 --> 0:34:01.000 going way off track. Um, all right, Well, if we're 0:34:01.000 --> 0:34:03.000 gonna get to the interview person of the show, all right, 0:34:03.400 --> 0:34:06.440 that is one of the best segments we've ever done. Uh, 0:34:06.520 --> 0:34:08.440 we're gonna get to Tyler Sharp and we're gonna go 0:34:08.520 --> 0:34:10.799 he lives down in Livingston, Montana and I went over 0:34:10.840 --> 0:34:14.680 to his house. We had a really good conversation about 0:34:14.920 --> 0:34:17.640 what he does, um, what he wants to do, and 0:34:17.719 --> 0:34:19.640 his goals within the industry, and then some of his 0:34:19.760 --> 0:34:22.239 pretty cool stories from his time traveling with like some 0:34:22.320 --> 0:34:26.960 Jim Shocky and others filming and experiencing a lot of 0:34:26.960 --> 0:34:31.200 things and in a couple of a lion attacks story. Yeah, 0:34:31.239 --> 0:34:33.719 so that's cool. Where we got that going? So we're 0:34:33.719 --> 0:34:36.360 gonna transport ourselves in time to live me some Montana. 0:34:36.400 --> 0:34:38.440 We're talking to Tyler Sharp, the editor in chief of 0:34:38.440 --> 0:34:47.319 Modern Huntsman enjoy I guess Tyler Sharp, what's up man 0:34:47.520 --> 0:34:51.759 now much? Just enjoying a Topo Chico over? Hey, maybe 0:34:51.760 --> 0:34:54.359 they would have sponsored the podcast? You think I would 0:34:54.400 --> 0:34:57.040 hope so, because it needs a larger presence in Montana. 0:34:57.080 --> 0:35:01.080 I think Topa Chico Now just came from Texas. I 0:35:01.160 --> 0:35:02.759 lived there for some time and it did enjoy it. 0:35:02.800 --> 0:35:06.040 And you are a dual resident of Texas and Montana, 0:35:06.040 --> 0:35:08.759 which I feel is that's a pretty good combination. It 0:35:08.880 --> 0:35:10.560 is to have those two things, trying to maintain that, 0:35:10.600 --> 0:35:14.120 trying to be a fair weather resident in both places. 0:35:14.239 --> 0:35:16.080 So lay that out. Do you go down there during 0:35:16.080 --> 0:35:18.040 the wintertime and come up here during the summertime, because 0:35:18.040 --> 0:35:20.520 if you do, screw you, because that's awesome. I was 0:35:20.560 --> 0:35:24.840 here this winter, which was, you know, pretty cold, especially 0:35:24.840 --> 0:35:27.399 out here. Um. But the idea, yeah, it would be 0:35:28.560 --> 0:35:32.600 summer here, fall here, and then maybe like you know, 0:35:32.680 --> 0:35:37.359 December through February or March in Texas, come back for 0:35:37.560 --> 0:35:42.240 spring here. Um. Finding that balance. But that's a fine 0:35:42.400 --> 0:35:44.680 that's a fine balance. I often tell people that if 0:35:44.719 --> 0:35:46.360 I could take the best of those two worlds, I 0:35:46.400 --> 0:35:50.600 would take it every day. And I used to. This 0:35:50.640 --> 0:35:53.080 winter in Montana wasn't so bad. Probably out here. You're 0:35:53.080 --> 0:35:55.120 out here in the in the middle of nowhere on 0:35:55.160 --> 0:35:57.200 a beautiful ranch. I'm sure it was a little tougher 0:35:57.200 --> 0:36:00.400 out here than it was. It wasn't bad until February, 0:36:00.800 --> 0:36:03.080 and then there was a period of three weeks where 0:36:03.600 --> 0:36:07.600 it was fifteen below and we got three ft of snow, 0:36:08.800 --> 0:36:11.560 and so that that started to grind on me a 0:36:11.560 --> 0:36:14.759 little bit. But yeah, I mean, I went snowboarding and 0:36:15.160 --> 0:36:17.320 try to snowshoe and hike. But when you go outside 0:36:17.320 --> 0:36:20.719 and you're breath immediately freezes, You're like, yeah, that's not 0:36:20.760 --> 0:36:24.439 going to go for a run today, and you're where 0:36:24.440 --> 0:36:26.960 are you born? Tell people you're kind of your where 0:36:27.040 --> 0:36:31.160 you're born? How you got to wear sung? I'm so 0:36:31.760 --> 0:36:36.120 little known secret and I hesitate to even tell the 0:36:36.200 --> 0:36:40.320 public at largness. I was actually born in Kansas City, Missouri, UM. 0:36:40.400 --> 0:36:42.919 When I was two, we moved to Austin. So grew 0:36:42.960 --> 0:36:44.879 up in Austin, and then we moved to Grapevine, which 0:36:44.880 --> 0:36:48.600 is in between Dallas and Fort Worth. Went to school there, uh. 0:36:48.640 --> 0:36:52.000 And then I went to college at USC in Los Angeles, 0:36:52.120 --> 0:36:56.920 studied film and photography as well as psychology and Italian randomly. 0:36:57.680 --> 0:36:59.960 And then my first job was in Tanzania. So I'm 0:37:00.000 --> 0:37:02.880 moved to Africa and worked for a safari company and 0:37:03.239 --> 0:37:06.640 filmed and photographed hunts for six months. Uh. And that's 0:37:06.680 --> 0:37:08.640 kind of what put me on the trajectory of the 0:37:08.719 --> 0:37:11.839 hunting industry. So you explain that time in your life. 0:37:11.840 --> 0:37:14.640 I mean you you you talk about a lot of 0:37:14.920 --> 0:37:19.640 varied places, Missouri, Austin, USC and then over to Africa. 0:37:20.960 --> 0:37:22.840 I want to talk a little bit more about Africa 0:37:22.880 --> 0:37:25.279 in this conversation, but describe that time where you first 0:37:25.320 --> 0:37:27.360 got to see that place and understand what it was 0:37:28.640 --> 0:37:32.479 it was, you know, everybody has their own vision. They've 0:37:32.520 --> 0:37:35.399 heard stories, they've read books, they've watched movies, and then 0:37:35.440 --> 0:37:38.399 you get there and it's kind of your own experience. 0:37:38.520 --> 0:37:43.600 And I remember getting there and and you know, it 0:37:43.680 --> 0:37:45.080 was way out in the bush, so we took a 0:37:45.080 --> 0:37:47.280 bush plane two hours out in the middle of nowhere. 0:37:47.320 --> 0:37:49.960 And I get there. It's dark, and I meet some 0:37:50.000 --> 0:37:51.279 people in the camp and they kind of take me 0:37:51.280 --> 0:37:53.320 on this tour and they showed me the nice tents 0:37:53.360 --> 0:37:55.400 and and I'm like, oh cool. You know, I kind 0:37:55.400 --> 0:37:56.600 of put my back and they're like, oh no, no no, no, 0:37:56.640 --> 0:37:59.480 that's not your tent, that's the client tent. And they 0:37:59.480 --> 0:38:01.040 take me to the back at the camp, which is 0:38:01.040 --> 0:38:02.799 in the pitch black. I don't even know what the 0:38:02.840 --> 0:38:05.839 area looks like. And this is um in Tanzania. It's 0:38:05.880 --> 0:38:08.800 it's called the Ruaha. It was the Usangu gamers Or, 0:38:08.800 --> 0:38:11.880 which is adjacent to the Ruajan National Park and um 0:38:12.320 --> 0:38:14.839 amazing area. And so I get out in this tent, 0:38:14.880 --> 0:38:18.399 They're like, okay, good night, and you know, I can 0:38:18.440 --> 0:38:23.279 hear hyenas immediately, and then I hear lions and I'm like, 0:38:23.280 --> 0:38:25.440 all right, well, maybe I'll just brush my teeth and 0:38:25.480 --> 0:38:27.160 go to bed. I literally step outside and I hear 0:38:27.200 --> 0:38:28.640 a lion roar. I'm like, you know what, I'm good. 0:38:28.640 --> 0:38:31.520 I don't need to brush my teeth. So that first 0:38:31.600 --> 0:38:34.279 night was a little unnerving because I have never been there. 0:38:34.280 --> 0:38:36.359 I have no idea if a tent is safe. How 0:38:36.400 --> 0:38:39.759 close are those lions and hyenas? Um. But then I 0:38:39.800 --> 0:38:41.759 woke up and kind of saw the lay of the land. 0:38:41.960 --> 0:38:44.759 And um, I always say, I feel like I went 0:38:44.800 --> 0:38:47.280 there a boy and came back a man, because I literally, 0:38:48.239 --> 0:38:50.680 you know, no, this was before iPhones. There was no 0:38:50.760 --> 0:38:54.120 cell phones, there was no internet. There was a CB 0:38:54.320 --> 0:38:57.280 radio and a satellite phone that was it. And uh, 0:38:57.320 --> 0:38:59.480 you know, we hunted for her own food. They had 0:38:59.600 --> 0:39:01.880 a shown by and Swahili which means farm, so they 0:39:01.920 --> 0:39:05.200 grew all their vegetables and we were eating everything that 0:39:05.239 --> 0:39:09.000 we grew and killed. And um, you know, I learned 0:39:09.040 --> 0:39:12.319 Swahili became like a family with all these people, learned 0:39:12.360 --> 0:39:15.160 how to track, could tell within ten minutes what time 0:39:15.160 --> 0:39:17.480 of day it was by looking at the sun. Um, 0:39:17.800 --> 0:39:23.600 and just uh it experienced this lifestyle that I didn't 0:39:23.600 --> 0:39:26.560 even know it was real, right, and then it changed 0:39:26.600 --> 0:39:30.000 me completely. How could that not changeing. Yeah, and uh, 0:39:30.040 --> 0:39:32.440 I mean you want to talk about close encounters. I 0:39:32.480 --> 0:39:35.640 got charged by leopards. I had a lion come into 0:39:35.640 --> 0:39:36.919 my tent in the middle of the night and staring 0:39:37.000 --> 0:39:39.359 me down five yards away in a full don't don't 0:39:39.440 --> 0:39:43.720 pass that over. Tell both. Uh So the lions story, 0:39:43.760 --> 0:39:46.560 this is something I actually wrote about in in voyme 0:39:46.600 --> 0:39:49.680 one of modern Huntsmen. And um. So, it's an area 0:39:49.760 --> 0:39:53.880 called the Killing Barrow. Uh. It's a floodplain in central Tanzania. 0:39:54.440 --> 0:39:58.080 And um, we were there hunting buffalo by river. You're 0:39:58.120 --> 0:40:01.760 in a boat with a triple decker, you know, observation tower, 0:40:01.760 --> 0:40:03.840 and a massia sits on the top and if he 0:40:03.880 --> 0:40:06.239 sees buffalo, he pulls the string and it rings the 0:40:06.239 --> 0:40:08.399 bell and the driver runs the boat. So you can't 0:40:08.400 --> 0:40:11.799 see anything. It's fourteen foot grass. Um. But lions are 0:40:11.960 --> 0:40:14.440 very present in this area and they're hunting these buffalo 0:40:14.560 --> 0:40:18.120 or whatever. Um. And the tent in our tent, the 0:40:18.160 --> 0:40:22.839 zipper was broken on the mesh. And um it's so 0:40:22.880 --> 0:40:24.880 hot there that you can't sleep with the campus closed, 0:40:24.920 --> 0:40:27.080 so we were sleeping with the tent wide open. Of course, 0:40:27.120 --> 0:40:30.960 my bed is by the door. And um, Georgie Ferreira, 0:40:31.040 --> 0:40:35.720 who's this you know, half Greek, half Brazilian, Swahili speaking 0:40:35.800 --> 0:40:39.040 professional hunter. He's like man of the world. And he 0:40:39.120 --> 0:40:40.880 was like, oh, don't don't be a wors you know, 0:40:41.000 --> 0:40:45.680 it's fine lion. But so he's got the fourth four 0:40:45.800 --> 0:40:49.280 seventy double under his bed. He's asleep right feeling feeling 0:40:49.400 --> 0:40:51.359 real good about that. And this is the last time 0:40:51.400 --> 0:40:57.759 I ever took um malaria medication. So um I And 0:40:57.800 --> 0:41:01.439 there's two different ones. There's malarone, which she is a ah, 0:41:03.080 --> 0:41:05.520 it's a daily pill, and then there's Larry UM, which 0:41:05.520 --> 0:41:07.520 is the weekly pill. So I that I had this 0:41:07.560 --> 0:41:09.960 weekly pill which gives you murderous nightmare sometimes. So I 0:41:10.000 --> 0:41:13.840 woke up in this panic like and my heart was racing, 0:41:13.840 --> 0:41:16.480 I was sweating, I was panicking and realized it was 0:41:16.560 --> 0:41:20.680 just this well, you know, Larry medicine UM. And then 0:41:20.680 --> 0:41:25.640 about thirty seconds later, I hear which is a male 0:41:25.719 --> 0:41:30.799 lion right behind the tent. So I think, all right, 0:41:30.800 --> 0:41:33.800 do I have time to jump up, run out untie 0:41:33.840 --> 0:41:36.799 the flaps, close, the doors, zip it, jump back in. 0:41:37.200 --> 0:41:39.759 By the time I even flinched to do that, he 0:41:39.840 --> 0:41:42.200 called right next to my head outside the window just 0:41:43.320 --> 0:41:46.320 so I'm like, all right, well, here we go. And 0:41:46.680 --> 0:41:51.560 um sat there and he walked out about to where 0:41:51.560 --> 0:41:56.399 that chair is, so less than five yards away, and 0:41:56.719 --> 0:41:59.920 six hundred pound male massive had this big mohawk may 0:42:00.640 --> 0:42:03.799 and it's a full moon, so it's super bright, and uh. 0:42:05.000 --> 0:42:07.279 I reached down to grab the bed frame because if 0:42:07.320 --> 0:42:08.600 he came, I was going to try to flip the 0:42:08.600 --> 0:42:11.920 bed on top of myself. Classic that that creaks like. 0:42:13.000 --> 0:42:15.239 And the lion just turns around and just stares me 0:42:15.360 --> 0:42:19.320 right in the eyes. And I'll never forget. It was soaked. 0:42:19.320 --> 0:42:20.920 I mean I just got goosebumps thinking about it. It 0:42:21.360 --> 0:42:24.480 was deathly quiet, and I could hear the sand as 0:42:24.520 --> 0:42:27.120 he dug his paws in and started to crouch, and 0:42:27.200 --> 0:42:30.319 his tail started to do this, oh boy. And so 0:42:30.360 --> 0:42:35.040 I'm like, all right, well, goodbye world. Uh. And it 0:42:35.200 --> 0:42:38.280 felt like ten minutes, but it was probably only about 0:42:38.280 --> 0:42:41.840 fifteen seconds. And then he turned around, walked over to 0:42:41.880 --> 0:42:44.160 the river, rubbed his face on the fence, jumped in 0:42:44.200 --> 0:42:46.520 the river, swam off, and I was like, Georgie, wake up. 0:42:46.560 --> 0:42:48.319 That damn lion was here, and you know, it gets 0:42:48.360 --> 0:42:50.680 up in his underwear. He's acting all tough like and 0:42:50.719 --> 0:42:55.560 the tracks were huge and so um he laughed. You know, 0:42:55.719 --> 0:42:59.920 we didn't see him. Next full moon, next exact month, 0:43:01.120 --> 0:43:04.920 same tent, same camp, Same lion comes back, but this 0:43:04.960 --> 0:43:08.719 time the door is closed and he literally lays on 0:43:08.920 --> 0:43:11.719 the porch and SAgs the tent wall in and he's 0:43:11.800 --> 0:43:15.200 like like breathing. I can like see the canvas moving 0:43:15.239 --> 0:43:17.640 back and forth because he's breathing. And so at that 0:43:17.680 --> 0:43:20.040 point I kind of decided that that lion was my 0:43:20.080 --> 0:43:22.960 spirit animal because he just kept coming back and I 0:43:23.000 --> 0:43:26.160 had actually I forgot to mention this detail before he 0:43:26.160 --> 0:43:28.840 showed up the first time. As a joke, we shaved 0:43:28.840 --> 0:43:30.920 a mohawk into my head because my hair it was 0:43:30.960 --> 0:43:32.400 just too damn high. I was like, let's shave my head, 0:43:32.400 --> 0:43:34.879 and Georgie's like, lot's to a mohawk. First next day, 0:43:34.960 --> 0:43:38.600 the mohawk lion shows up on the porch. Uh. So, yeah, 0:43:38.640 --> 0:43:41.400 that that was a close call. Um, the story of 0:43:41.400 --> 0:43:44.239 the mohawk lin. Yeah, and uh and that's in in 0:43:44.360 --> 0:43:47.120 Modern Hunts volume one. That was in volume one. Um, 0:43:47.160 --> 0:43:50.120 you know there's a couple other a couple, I mean, 0:43:50.200 --> 0:43:53.080 plenty of lion encounters, plenty of elephant encounters the leopard. 0:43:53.120 --> 0:43:56.680 One was pretty funny. We were in Zambia and we were, uh, 0:43:56.760 --> 0:44:01.640 we were hunting the kudo and sable and we, um, 0:44:01.760 --> 0:44:04.440 it's noon. We're driving in this land cruiser, no windshield, 0:44:04.480 --> 0:44:08.440 no roof, no doors, totally open air, and all of 0:44:08.480 --> 0:44:12.240 a sudden, Lance Lance the pH slams on the brakes 0:44:12.400 --> 0:44:15.239 and he's like, let chewy, you know, and we all 0:44:15.280 --> 0:44:17.080 see it and it's trying to dig a word hog 0:44:17.080 --> 0:44:19.080 out of its hole. It's pretty rare to see a 0:44:19.120 --> 0:44:20.319 lepar in the middle of the day like that, and 0:44:20.360 --> 0:44:22.920 so we're like, oh cool, and we're like thirty yards away. 0:44:23.000 --> 0:44:24.560 So Lance is like, all right, I'm gonna try to 0:44:24.600 --> 0:44:25.959 get closer and so you can get a good picture. 0:44:26.040 --> 0:44:29.480 So he turned sideways and the leopard kind of sneaks 0:44:29.520 --> 0:44:31.719 away behind this log and it was just watching us 0:44:31.960 --> 0:44:35.080 from behind the log with his paws up. And uh. 0:44:35.120 --> 0:44:36.799 I got some video footage of it, but it was 0:44:37.160 --> 0:44:38.560 kind of boring. It was too far away for it 0:44:38.560 --> 0:44:40.360 to be good footage. And um, so I was like, 0:44:40.440 --> 0:44:42.440 I'll take a couple pictures then we can go. So 0:44:42.480 --> 0:44:44.720 I take two pictures and as I clicked the shutter 0:44:44.760 --> 0:44:48.080 on the third one. He just comes right for me, 0:44:48.719 --> 0:44:52.279 and that thing covered twenty yards in two seconds, and 0:44:52.320 --> 0:44:55.759 he got about this far away and veered off. So 0:44:55.800 --> 0:44:57.359 it was a mock charge. And I had a big, 0:44:57.400 --> 0:44:59.920 you know, seventy two lens. I was just going to 0:45:00.080 --> 0:45:01.920 try to hit him in the head with it. They 0:45:02.000 --> 0:45:05.000 they're gonna get you, It's just a matter of how bad. 0:45:05.400 --> 0:45:08.359 So I I like put my arm around my neck 0:45:08.440 --> 0:45:09.719 so they can't get your neck. And I was just 0:45:09.719 --> 0:45:11.680 gonna try to bash him with the lens. But it 0:45:11.719 --> 0:45:14.279 was a mock charge. So he ran off and I 0:45:14.280 --> 0:45:16.399 looked down at Lance and he's sitting there. He didn't 0:45:16.440 --> 0:45:19.160 reach for the keys, didn't reach for the gun, laughing, 0:45:19.760 --> 0:45:21.000 and he just turns to me and he goes, did 0:45:21.040 --> 0:45:26.000 you ship your pants? Mate? Like I'm sitting I'm sitting here, 0:45:26.080 --> 0:45:29.520 you dude, you tell me? Yeah? Yeah, So there's you know, um, 0:45:29.680 --> 0:45:32.360 I think I I lived there. I lived in Tanzania 0:45:32.440 --> 0:45:34.640 for almost three years, you know, And what really got 0:45:34.680 --> 0:45:36.680 you there? I mean, you know, we kind of gave 0:45:36.719 --> 0:45:39.640 people the lily pond like sure, but what how did 0:45:39.680 --> 0:45:43.000 you get to find yourself there? Yeah? So, um, really 0:45:43.480 --> 0:45:46.239 I don't know how to describe it other than just destiny. 0:45:46.640 --> 0:45:49.760 And that might sound contrived, but I was at USC 0:45:50.120 --> 0:45:53.440 and um it was probably three months before I was 0:45:53.440 --> 0:45:57.000 about to graduate, and um my dad at the time 0:45:57.200 --> 0:46:00.360 owned a store in Dallas that did screen printing, an 0:46:00.360 --> 0:46:02.279 embroidery and all that, and it was next door to 0:46:02.440 --> 0:46:04.840 a home video edit. It was called You Edit Video. 0:46:05.360 --> 0:46:07.000 And we were friends with the manager because I used 0:46:07.000 --> 0:46:10.000 to run my dad's store. And the owner of the 0:46:10.040 --> 0:46:13.120 Safari company came in there and uh, I had a 0:46:13.120 --> 0:46:14.960 bunch of really crappy footage and he's like, I want 0:46:14.960 --> 0:46:16.879 to make DVDs from my clients and they were like, well, 0:46:16.920 --> 0:46:18.960 this footage sucks. You should hire somebody who knows what 0:46:18.960 --> 0:46:21.600 they're doing and get like HD cameras and the guy goes, okay, 0:46:21.719 --> 0:46:23.880 well let's do that. And my dad happened to be 0:46:23.880 --> 0:46:26.000 privy to this conversation and just said, hey, well, my 0:46:26.040 --> 0:46:28.120 son's about to graduate from USC, you should hire him. 0:46:28.200 --> 0:46:31.040 And they said okay. So I literally got a call 0:46:31.080 --> 0:46:33.080 from my dad and he's like, hey, t I, uh 0:46:33.120 --> 0:46:35.160 I sent you that mail, and you know, we looked 0:46:35.160 --> 0:46:36.839 at flights and I think I got you a job 0:46:36.880 --> 0:46:41.960 in tanzan you when you graduate, and and so literally 0:46:42.120 --> 0:46:44.759 that's how it happened. So I literally when I graduated, 0:46:44.800 --> 0:46:46.239 I sold a bunch of my stuff, said by to 0:46:46.280 --> 0:46:48.000 my friends in l A, and moved back to Texas. 0:46:48.680 --> 0:46:50.640 You know, did the whole like Cabella z R. I 0:46:50.760 --> 0:46:53.680 run got all my Safari gear, most of which is 0:46:53.719 --> 0:46:57.680 totally unnecessary, and went and then had this amazing experience. 0:46:57.760 --> 0:46:59.799 But when I was there, I learned about Dallas Safari 0:46:59.840 --> 0:47:03.879 c And so when I came back and side note, 0:47:04.120 --> 0:47:05.640 the company I worked for at the time, which I 0:47:05.680 --> 0:47:09.200 will not name, totally screwed me over. Didn't pay me. 0:47:09.440 --> 0:47:12.400 My visa expired. Um, they never got my work permit. 0:47:12.680 --> 0:47:15.480 The owner fled the country. So so I'm in the 0:47:15.520 --> 0:47:18.359 bush in November, right, and I'm like, how am I? 0:47:18.360 --> 0:47:19.759 I don't even have a plane taket home. I have 0:47:19.800 --> 0:47:21.880 like a hundred dollars to my name, and I'm like, 0:47:21.920 --> 0:47:23.759 how in the US, it's kind of a big deal 0:47:23.760 --> 0:47:26.799 if your visa expires. And I was like, how am I? 0:47:26.960 --> 0:47:28.799 You know, I asked one of the guys that the 0:47:29.000 --> 0:47:30.320 at the office, like what am I? What am I 0:47:30.320 --> 0:47:32.239 supposed to do? He's like, oh, i'm ana, you just 0:47:32.239 --> 0:47:34.200 put the money in the passport. I like, you want 0:47:34.200 --> 0:47:36.759 me to grease the customs officer. He's like, oh yeah, 0:47:36.760 --> 0:47:41.520 I'm anasta banat visa and I'm so literally to leave 0:47:41.520 --> 0:47:43.360 the country. I put a hundred dollar bill over my 0:47:43.400 --> 0:47:46.200 expired visa, hand it to the guy, opens it up, 0:47:46.239 --> 0:47:48.360 take some money, outstands my passport, hands it back and 0:47:48.400 --> 0:47:50.120 I went straight to the bar and get a double 0:47:50.120 --> 0:47:53.839 whiskey and made it back. And that's when I learned 0:47:53.880 --> 0:47:55.640 about Dallas Fry Club. So I went. So this would 0:47:55.640 --> 0:47:57.480 have been January of two thousand seven was the first 0:47:57.480 --> 0:47:59.800 time I went to the show and throw together a 0:48:00.000 --> 0:48:03.520 photo book, UH, throw together a little DVD and just 0:48:03.560 --> 0:48:06.520 started going around all the outfitters being like, please take 0:48:06.520 --> 0:48:08.560 me back to Africa. I don't want to live in 0:48:09.440 --> 0:48:14.440 the world. And UH ended up meeting a guy named 0:48:14.480 --> 0:48:20.120 Michelle Montiakas who's a a third generation Tanzanian um. He 0:48:20.200 --> 0:48:24.200 introduced me to the Knowlton family, which Corey Knowlton, and 0:48:24.239 --> 0:48:27.719 so I worked for the Knowlton family for almost three 0:48:27.800 --> 0:48:32.680 years and basically I would follow their UH employees and 0:48:33.000 --> 0:48:36.160 clients around. Corey was a booking agent. Larry would send 0:48:36.160 --> 0:48:39.680 a lot of his oil company employees and for those 0:48:39.719 --> 0:48:41.640 who don't know. Corey was a long time on the 0:48:41.640 --> 0:48:47.319 Professionals of Gym Shocky and they have the Hunting Consortium. Um. So, 0:48:47.320 --> 0:48:49.800 so I've traveled around. I went to almost thirty countries 0:48:49.880 --> 0:48:53.840 in three years, all over the world. I mean, Pakistan, Russia, Nepal, 0:48:54.280 --> 0:48:57.360 fourteen countries in Africa and and and so I was 0:48:57.400 --> 0:49:01.760 actually the original producer on the So like me, Corey 0:49:01.800 --> 0:49:03.680 and I kind of came up with that concept together. 0:49:04.160 --> 0:49:09.040 And because the Outdoor Channel was telling Jim that they 0:49:09.040 --> 0:49:10.719 wanted him to do a second show, so we kind 0:49:10.719 --> 0:49:12.799 of came up with this idea. And I was like, 0:49:13.040 --> 0:49:15.360 this was right when DSLRs first came out. I was like, 0:49:15.360 --> 0:49:16.719 we need to get a steady caam, we need to 0:49:16.719 --> 0:49:20.360 get a DSLR and so um. So yeah. I was 0:49:20.400 --> 0:49:23.680 one of the four original cameramen on The Professionals. And 0:49:23.719 --> 0:49:26.640 so if you remember that show, there's the Ibex jumping, 0:49:26.680 --> 0:49:29.279 there's the water buffalo falling, that the bearer running, that's 0:49:29.280 --> 0:49:33.799 all my footage. Yeah, And it's funny because I saw it. 0:49:33.880 --> 0:49:36.000 Yet he did a montage and I saw the Ibex 0:49:36.000 --> 0:49:38.560 show thing, I was like, that's my clip, um and 0:49:38.680 --> 0:49:40.959 so um yeah, so I did that for a little 0:49:41.000 --> 0:49:44.200 while and just got just got burned out. Um, I 0:49:44.239 --> 0:49:47.520 was traveling. I was gone probably nine ten eleven months 0:49:47.560 --> 0:49:50.279 out of the year. Couldn't have a relationship, never saw 0:49:50.320 --> 0:49:55.640 my family. Um, and being a hunting cameraman's hard, it's rough, 0:49:55.719 --> 0:49:58.439 and it doesn't pay well. Um. I mean I would 0:49:58.520 --> 0:50:00.680 never trade that because of the riants I got and 0:50:00.680 --> 0:50:02.800 the places I went in the relationships I formed with 0:50:02.840 --> 0:50:06.239 outfitters all over the world. Um. But then I so 0:50:06.360 --> 0:50:08.840 I came back to Dallas and uh, this was probably 0:50:08.880 --> 0:50:14.040 two thousand twelve, and UM, just kind of started to 0:50:14.080 --> 0:50:17.600 pursue more freelance stuff. You know. I I'm an avid writer, 0:50:17.880 --> 0:50:20.040 and so I started trying to get more editorial work 0:50:20.120 --> 0:50:22.640 and brand work. So I kind of started to pursue 0:50:22.680 --> 0:50:26.319 brands like Philson and and Stetson and Cabela's and ended 0:50:26.400 --> 0:50:30.400 up getting hired by Cabela's and worked with duchan Um 0:50:30.440 --> 0:50:33.160 and uh. And that was kind of the shift for 0:50:33.239 --> 0:50:37.319 me because then I kind of I almost quit photography 0:50:37.360 --> 0:50:40.200 because I was like, you know, as you know, being 0:50:40.239 --> 0:50:46.520 an editorial freelancers impossible full time. Yeah, you can't make weddings. 0:50:46.520 --> 0:50:48.839 I was doing senior portraits. I was doing corporate head 0:50:48.880 --> 0:50:53.600 shots whatever, right should have you follow up your line 0:50:53.640 --> 0:50:57.080 story with like a senior portraits story. No, please don't 0:50:57.120 --> 0:51:00.520 make me. Um. So I I almost quit, and I 0:51:00.560 --> 0:51:02.239 was like at the end of my rope, and I 0:51:02.320 --> 0:51:05.600 just thought to myself, Okay, if I didn't have to 0:51:05.640 --> 0:51:07.120 worry about money and I could just do the kind 0:51:07.120 --> 0:51:08.840 of photography I want to do, what would it be. 0:51:09.800 --> 0:51:12.440 And that's you know, kind of what we're doing now, right, 0:51:13.160 --> 0:51:19.520 Sporting life documentary, Uh, you know, conservation storytelling, um, outdoor adventure. 0:51:19.760 --> 0:51:21.680 You know, my mom's from Nacona, Texas, which is a 0:51:21.680 --> 0:51:25.080 pretty famous like Western history cowboy tant Nacona Boots and 0:51:25.080 --> 0:51:26.560 Justin Boots are all from there. So I've done a 0:51:26.600 --> 0:51:29.120 lot of stuff with Texas Parks and I'm sorry Texas 0:51:29.160 --> 0:51:32.439 Historical Commission. Um. And so I just kind of said, 0:51:32.440 --> 0:51:33.360 all right, you know what from now and I'm not 0:51:33.400 --> 0:51:37.799 gonna take anything that's not this stuff. And UM, I 0:51:37.960 --> 0:51:40.040 managed to land a gig with Garden Gun and started 0:51:40.080 --> 0:51:42.279 doing some work with them, and worked with Cubby Rise 0:51:42.320 --> 0:51:46.839 for a while. UM, and then just through this entire process, right, 0:51:46.920 --> 0:51:50.839 especially because Texas is a pretty hunting friendly state, that's right, right. 0:51:50.840 --> 0:51:54.040 But when I would come back from Africa, people would 0:51:54.120 --> 0:51:58.680 have these emotional reactions because they just for whatever reason, 0:51:58.680 --> 0:52:00.959 they've got an emotional testment to these animals, or they've 0:52:00.960 --> 0:52:03.359 heard something online. And so I kind of had these 0:52:03.360 --> 0:52:06.520 two realizations. One that the hunting industry does an absolute 0:52:06.600 --> 0:52:11.160 terrible job of communicating with non hunters about why it 0:52:11.280 --> 0:52:16.280 matters about its rolling conservation um. And then the second 0:52:16.280 --> 0:52:20.080 part of that realization was that most non hunters are 0:52:20.200 --> 0:52:25.880 either not educated or directly misinformed about hunting's rolling conservation. 0:52:26.040 --> 0:52:29.560 And so, uh, that combined with my experience with other 0:52:29.600 --> 0:52:32.479 magazines and how I felt like things could be done 0:52:32.520 --> 0:52:36.920 better UM. Highlighting the contributors a lot more, you know, 0:52:37.200 --> 0:52:40.600 promoting things online UM is kind of what led to 0:52:41.719 --> 0:52:46.640 starting modern huntsmen, I think. And when people see when 0:52:46.640 --> 0:52:48.560 you're expressly say things like that, and I've said these 0:52:48.600 --> 0:52:52.279 things before. Here's the problems I see with hunting, right, 0:52:52.600 --> 0:52:54.239 and the messaging. I don't have any problem with the 0:52:54.320 --> 0:52:58.000 act of hunting, but the messaging being a problem. I 0:52:58.000 --> 0:52:59.920 think people there's some people that are immediately turned off, 0:53:00.120 --> 0:53:02.239 WHOA sure, well, don't tell me what's wrong with what 0:53:02.760 --> 0:53:05.279 I got going on. So there's a there's a there's 0:53:05.280 --> 0:53:06.799 a fine line to walk there. I think we try 0:53:06.840 --> 0:53:09.040 to walk it because we love it so much. You 0:53:09.080 --> 0:53:11.960 want it to be um beneficial for society and you 0:53:11.960 --> 0:53:14.960 want people that don't do it to understand it. There's 0:53:15.000 --> 0:53:18.400 pressure there to do that. So with modern husband like, however, 0:53:18.440 --> 0:53:20.239 you try to walk that line because it is a 0:53:20.320 --> 0:53:24.160 it's a it's a thin one. It's difficult. Um, you know, 0:53:26.000 --> 0:53:27.920 I think we can all agree that hunting is in 0:53:27.920 --> 0:53:30.640 a hole. And it wasn't you and me that dug 0:53:30.680 --> 0:53:35.520 the hall, right, So that's a hard conversation to have, right, 0:53:35.560 --> 0:53:37.920 And and I feel like we're in a really difficult 0:53:37.960 --> 0:53:41.360 position because I've intentionally positioned modern huntsman on the periphery 0:53:41.400 --> 0:53:44.359 of the hunting industry, because if we are perceived as 0:53:44.480 --> 0:53:47.120 deep within the belly of that, we will not be 0:53:47.160 --> 0:53:50.560 able to accomplish our goal, which is too communicate with 0:53:51.719 --> 0:53:55.480 people who don't hunt and improve their viewpoint of what 0:53:55.560 --> 0:53:58.960 we do, right, which makes it hard because the hunting 0:53:59.000 --> 0:54:03.759 industry is so UM, I don't I don't want to say, 0:54:03.800 --> 0:54:05.000 you know, I don't. I don't know how to say this, 0:54:05.080 --> 0:54:07.800 but uh, they stick to their own right and I 0:54:08.120 --> 0:54:10.400 think you could agree with the story I just told, like, 0:54:10.480 --> 0:54:14.960 I've I've earned my chops, right, I've I've seen and 0:54:15.080 --> 0:54:18.840 been and done the hunting industry, and so I understand it, 0:54:18.920 --> 0:54:22.000 and I know that there's a lot of really good 0:54:22.000 --> 0:54:24.920 people who are really dedicated to trying to keep it 0:54:25.280 --> 0:54:29.920 moving forward, to keep it alive, to grow our numbers. However, 0:54:30.600 --> 0:54:33.640 the tone that's being used and the methods they're trying 0:54:33.640 --> 0:54:38.160 to communicate aren't working, and it's a it's an us 0:54:38.280 --> 0:54:40.440 versus them, and I you know, I wrote about this 0:54:40.480 --> 0:54:43.200 in my editor's letter, like it can't be us versus 0:54:43.239 --> 0:54:46.399 them anymore. It's got to be all of us, both 0:54:46.440 --> 0:54:51.320 sides together against all of the conservation issues that we face. 0:54:52.200 --> 0:54:54.400 I think, and I think there's some there's some difficulties 0:54:54.400 --> 0:54:56.920 in all this. And one of the main difficulties is 0:54:57.360 --> 0:54:59.800 how you just articulated like wanting to kind of position 0:55:00.000 --> 0:55:03.399 off away from the core, but then use in terms 0:55:03.400 --> 0:55:06.799 like we and like we who what's we? You know? 0:55:06.880 --> 0:55:10.120 What's that collective? Really? Because it's it's hard to define 0:55:10.920 --> 0:55:12.960 if you feel like, well, these people don't represent me, 0:55:13.080 --> 0:55:15.920 I need to represent something different than them or the 0:55:15.920 --> 0:55:17.319 way that they've done in the past, or at least 0:55:17.320 --> 0:55:20.520 like a sea change a bit in the messaging. It's 0:55:20.560 --> 0:55:24.120 hard to come to bring that all together, right, I mean, 0:55:24.280 --> 0:55:28.480 that's that's that's extremely difficult. Like pulling the core hunting 0:55:29.160 --> 0:55:32.000 community that's kind of stuck in their ways or maybe 0:55:32.040 --> 0:55:36.239 cause this problem that you perceive towards your thing. That's 0:55:36.320 --> 0:55:38.279 that's hard. I think we've all found it to be 0:55:38.400 --> 0:55:43.280 hard thinking that, you know, thinking is that better falling 0:55:43.280 --> 0:55:46.680 apart because I can't. You can't. You can hear me. 0:55:46.680 --> 0:55:49.600 If you can't, we're recording. There's something going on with 0:55:49.640 --> 0:55:53.239 this piece of machinery. You can hear me. Yeah, let 0:55:53.280 --> 0:55:56.839 me see is this this is mine? Here? It goes 0:55:56.880 --> 0:56:01.640 back and forth. Yeah, I wonder that is if it's connection. 0:56:02.040 --> 0:56:06.000 Just trying to check with it. Uh yeah, I mean 0:56:06.040 --> 0:56:11.400 I I've used this metaphor before, and uh I haven't. 0:56:11.440 --> 0:56:14.600 I haven't been blasted for it yet, So just keep 0:56:14.640 --> 0:56:17.440 going with it. Um. You know, it's like you have 0:56:17.520 --> 0:56:20.279 a grandpa who's kind of hands e right, and you're 0:56:20.280 --> 0:56:23.160 at the birthday party and Grandpa maybe like grabbed your girlfriend. 0:56:23.160 --> 0:56:27.239 You're like, Grandpa, you cause some problems and we love 0:56:27.280 --> 0:56:30.120 you and you're a good guy, But just you need 0:56:30.160 --> 0:56:32.000 to sit in this chair for the rest of the party. 0:56:32.040 --> 0:56:33.600 And there'll be a time when you can come back, 0:56:33.680 --> 0:56:36.200 but for right now, we've got to fix this, right 0:56:36.280 --> 0:56:40.160 And so Grandpa, right, that's not a specific person, that's 0:56:40.160 --> 0:56:45.560 not a specific organization. That's let's call it the old mentality, right, 0:56:45.960 --> 0:56:50.000 the let's let's articulate that, like what's the old well, well, 0:56:50.280 --> 0:56:52.400 articulately the old mentality, as you see, and then what 0:56:52.440 --> 0:56:54.600 modern hunts from represents. Sure, so I think that the 0:56:54.680 --> 0:56:59.080 old mentality in let's say the nineties, right, Um, there 0:56:59.160 --> 0:57:03.680 wasn't social media, right, and and there wasn't the global 0:57:04.600 --> 0:57:07.960 uh spread of information in a second, right, and so 0:57:08.040 --> 0:57:10.920 there was this kind of combative language that was going on, 0:57:11.120 --> 0:57:14.520 right the US first, the antis kind of thing. Well, 0:57:15.160 --> 0:57:18.880 the antis aren't it's not as descript anymore. It is 0:57:18.920 --> 0:57:25.600 now because they've they're smart, they've mobilized, they've created media conglomerates. 0:57:25.920 --> 0:57:28.760 So now it's not just that organization versus this organization. 0:57:28.840 --> 0:57:32.360 It's whatever they want to say goes to the entire world. 0:57:33.360 --> 0:57:37.960 And they are much better at social media and and 0:57:37.960 --> 0:57:41.120 and media. I mean, like Cecil the Lion, Nobody in 0:57:41.200 --> 0:57:44.200 Africa knew who sees the lion was Nope, nope, that 0:57:44.320 --> 0:57:47.600 was he was not a celebrity. But they were brilliant 0:57:47.640 --> 0:57:49.920 in their marketing and they came up with a campaign 0:57:50.120 --> 0:57:53.120 and they accomplished their goal. Right. And as a result, 0:57:54.120 --> 0:57:56.960 lion importation and elephant importation United States has been banned, 0:57:57.200 --> 0:58:02.320 which has had drastic effects on the on the African conservation. 0:58:02.360 --> 0:58:06.240 Tanzania has lost over fifty of its hunting blocks because 0:58:06.280 --> 0:58:09.560 people can't afford to manage it anymore. So I think 0:58:09.640 --> 0:58:11.680 that when I go, I'm gonna go back to the 0:58:11.760 --> 0:58:14.680 US versus them thing. It can't be a fight anymore. 0:58:15.400 --> 0:58:17.320 It's okay, let me change that. It has to be 0:58:17.360 --> 0:58:20.240 a fight, but we gotta fight differently, right, It's got 0:58:20.240 --> 0:58:23.200 to be a constructive conversation. It can't be rock throwing 0:58:23.200 --> 0:58:26.560 anymore because's not working. It's it's factly, I think it's 0:58:26.560 --> 0:58:29.280 getting worse if that's the path we continue down. And 0:58:29.320 --> 0:58:32.720 so um, it's a difficult conversation, right because these are 0:58:32.800 --> 0:58:36.480 these are people that I've worked with and respect and 0:58:36.600 --> 0:58:38.880 uh and and and it's it's hard in the same 0:58:38.920 --> 0:58:42.080 in any relationship, right to say, hey, listen, I feel 0:58:42.120 --> 0:58:45.160 like you're screwed up, right, and and and communicating that 0:58:45.200 --> 0:58:49.200 to someone in a way that's respectful, that doesn't um 0:58:49.480 --> 0:58:53.000 get their defenses up, because that's the key in anything, right, 0:58:53.240 --> 0:58:55.560 So and and and I think that's the difference with 0:58:55.600 --> 0:58:58.200 modern hunts and where we are, how we are. It's working. 0:58:58.200 --> 0:59:02.680 We're having conversations with non hunters, with vegans, with vegetarians, 0:59:02.680 --> 0:59:06.280 with brands like Patagonia, because we're doing it in a 0:59:06.280 --> 0:59:09.200 different way that I don't know if I want to 0:59:09.200 --> 0:59:11.160 say it's more respectful, but it's in a tone that 0:59:11.720 --> 0:59:14.720 isn't getting their defenses up, and and is making it 0:59:14.960 --> 0:59:18.560 more possible for us to actually have a conversation and 0:59:18.720 --> 0:59:21.720 point out the material in an educational way rather than 0:59:21.720 --> 0:59:25.640 a defensive way, because if it gets defensive, no one listens. Yeah, 0:59:27.160 --> 0:59:29.600 is there do you feel like? I think specific when 0:59:29.600 --> 0:59:32.000 we talk about the messaging, there's no way to get around. 0:59:32.040 --> 0:59:33.480 It's annoying to me, and I'm sure annoying to you 0:59:33.560 --> 0:59:37.080 to continue to talk about trophy hunting scandals because some 0:59:37.120 --> 0:59:39.440 person took a picture with some animal that somebody didn't like. 0:59:40.520 --> 0:59:43.840 It's it's getting to be real old, but it's still 0:59:44.120 --> 0:59:47.560 when you hear about hunting in the media effect, Uh, 0:59:47.840 --> 0:59:50.919 maybe what it was CBS just ran a thing about 0:59:50.960 --> 0:59:53.720 trophy hunting and had you know, it is the trophy 0:59:53.760 --> 0:59:57.520 hunting versus conservation, right, and that continually is a messaging 0:59:57.880 --> 0:59:59.720 and people like said, people that live in Chicago, they 0:59:59.760 --> 1:00:01.680 might of New York, this is the only thing they see. 1:00:02.680 --> 1:00:04.920 And so how do you change that part? Is there 1:00:04.960 --> 1:00:07.240 a way to change that part? Because that's we just 1:00:07.240 --> 1:00:10.120 gotta change the word. Yeah, So in Namibia, So Byron 1:00:10.160 --> 1:00:12.840 and I were just over in Namibia speaking on a 1:00:12.920 --> 1:00:16.040 journalism symposium in a room full of mostly non hunters 1:00:16.120 --> 1:00:21.120 talking about African hunting, which was super interesting. However, Namibia 1:00:21.200 --> 1:00:26.120 has deliberately changed their term to conservation hunting. It's no 1:00:26.120 --> 1:00:29.680 longer trophy hunting, and just that right there, right, because 1:00:29.680 --> 1:00:32.160 when people hear trophy and we could we could spend 1:00:32.160 --> 1:00:35.520 all the time in the world trying to describe someone. Okay, well, 1:00:35.560 --> 1:00:39.080 trophy technically means memento, right, and so if you are 1:00:39.240 --> 1:00:42.760 trying to harvest an old, the oldest, biggest bull you can, 1:00:42.960 --> 1:00:44.520 that's one of the best things you can actually do 1:00:44.560 --> 1:00:47.760 for the herd dynamics, right, But that's not what people 1:00:47.800 --> 1:00:50.320 think they think you're just going for the big antlers. 1:00:50.360 --> 1:00:54.360 And some people are right, and that's fine, right, but 1:00:55.680 --> 1:00:58.360 we have to be cognizant of the fact that we 1:00:58.400 --> 1:01:01.080 live in a world where stuff gets spread all over 1:01:01.120 --> 1:01:03.280 the world immediately, and then there are a lot of 1:01:03.320 --> 1:01:05.680 people who are going to take that and misappropriate it 1:01:05.720 --> 1:01:09.520 and use it to their own gains for whatever financial 1:01:09.800 --> 1:01:14.160 you know, initiatives they have. Uh. And so do I 1:01:14.200 --> 1:01:16.680 think that people should be able to post their trophy 1:01:16.720 --> 1:01:19.880 photos because they they they're proud of it. Yeah, I 1:01:19.920 --> 1:01:22.600 think they do. However, that's not the reality of the 1:01:22.640 --> 1:01:24.520 world we live in. And so I think that if 1:01:24.560 --> 1:01:27.440 you truly care about the future of hunting, right, you 1:01:27.520 --> 1:01:30.680 have to at least be aware of the consequences of 1:01:30.720 --> 1:01:34.560 doing something like that. And it can't be this and 1:01:34.560 --> 1:01:37.480 this is part of the old mentality like oh screw this, 1:01:37.600 --> 1:01:40.320 I'm going down with the ship. We don't want the 1:01:40.320 --> 1:01:42.560 ship to go down. We would like the ship to 1:01:42.600 --> 1:01:46.440 stay afloat. And that's what I'm devoted to. And uh, 1:01:46.640 --> 1:01:48.800 we're gonna get chastised for it and criticized for it 1:01:48.800 --> 1:01:52.480 because we're not saying the same things. And I would 1:01:52.520 --> 1:01:55.760 like to. I have to you know, we have ties 1:01:55.800 --> 1:01:58.400 and alliances within the hunting industry, but it's not the 1:01:58.440 --> 1:02:01.439 majority I'm having to gain that and and and it's 1:02:01.440 --> 1:02:05.000 not a short conversation, right, It's something that takes uh 1:02:05.040 --> 1:02:09.040 sitting down and me being able to explain the chess 1:02:09.040 --> 1:02:12.240 game that we're playing. Yeah, And I think give people 1:02:12.240 --> 1:02:14.600 a few examples of you don't have the name names, 1:02:14.640 --> 1:02:22.720 like times you've been challenged. Um, well I think that 1:02:23.520 --> 1:02:30.919 you know, for for instance, me personally, right, Um, someone 1:02:31.000 --> 1:02:34.000 goes to my Instagram account and there's not pictures of 1:02:34.040 --> 1:02:37.320 dead animals on there, right, And so I've been accused 1:02:37.680 --> 1:02:40.960 or criticized for not being a real hunter, right or 1:02:41.040 --> 1:02:44.080 being hardcore whatever you wanna call it. But that's a choice, 1:02:44.400 --> 1:02:47.280 right because if I put that, there's a way to 1:02:47.360 --> 1:02:50.840 do that, right, Um, But if I don't do it 1:02:50.920 --> 1:02:54.000 the right way, then it's going to unravel all the 1:02:54.000 --> 1:02:58.600 work we've done. So Um. As a as an individual, 1:02:58.720 --> 1:03:02.000 I see myself as a diplomat, right, I see myself 1:03:02.000 --> 1:03:04.960 as as an ambassador for what I believe to be 1:03:05.240 --> 1:03:08.560 our you know, the virtues of hunting. And and I 1:03:08.600 --> 1:03:10.440 can't sit here and give you a list of like, Okay, 1:03:10.440 --> 1:03:12.600 this is right. This is wrong because as you know, 1:03:12.720 --> 1:03:15.680 it's incredibly nuanced and there's a lot of gray area. 1:03:16.040 --> 1:03:17.880 But in the same way that we could both agree 1:03:17.960 --> 1:03:23.160 that honesty and integrity and loyalty and bravery are all virtues, right, 1:03:23.200 --> 1:03:26.280 they represent a moral center. That's what we're trying to 1:03:27.080 --> 1:03:30.240 promote in this book is the people and the places 1:03:30.680 --> 1:03:34.120 and the situations and the organizations that represent what we 1:03:34.160 --> 1:03:39.120 feel to be are, you know, virtues of hunting? Presenting 1:03:39.160 --> 1:03:43.160 that in a visual format that could be could win 1:03:43.160 --> 1:03:49.320 a design Design awards um and that allows access and uh, 1:03:49.360 --> 1:03:51.600 you know, engagement from people who aren't part of the 1:03:51.640 --> 1:03:54.400 hunting industry. So would you say that, like, I'm looking 1:03:54.440 --> 1:03:57.800 at the volume three cover, it's a beautiful photo of 1:03:57.840 --> 1:04:02.240 a hunter. What's it? The water buffalo water buffalo arhem 1:04:02.320 --> 1:04:07.680 lands in Australia. It's a beautiful photo. Would you say 1:04:07.720 --> 1:04:12.600 this represents like your proposed new way of thinking? And 1:04:12.640 --> 1:04:14.440 then if you were to look at another magazine with 1:04:14.520 --> 1:04:17.880 a dude sitting behind a big giant buck, and that's 1:04:17.880 --> 1:04:19.600 like the older way. There's plenty of magazines that we 1:04:19.640 --> 1:04:21.120 can call to we won't call him out, but this 1:04:21.240 --> 1:04:23.840 is like there's that and there's this well how do 1:04:23.880 --> 1:04:26.120 you see those two things? Right? I don't want to 1:04:26.120 --> 1:04:27.560 call it a new way of thinking because it's not 1:04:27.600 --> 1:04:29.520 a new way of thinking. Right. There's been people throughout 1:04:29.560 --> 1:04:33.040 history who have tried to do things what they feel 1:04:33.080 --> 1:04:35.680 to be is that's your way of this version of 1:04:35.920 --> 1:04:41.080 let's let's call it a m you know, a different philosophy, right, 1:04:41.200 --> 1:04:45.160 one that's focused on I hate to use the word inclusiveness. 1:04:45.360 --> 1:04:49.000 That's kind of a buzzword. But uh, we're talking to 1:04:49.040 --> 1:04:52.800 a different audience than so the I'll give you, I 1:04:52.800 --> 1:04:55.600 will give you that because examples in volume three, Max 1:04:55.680 --> 1:04:57.480 low is in here. Yeah, a lot of people listeners 1:04:57.480 --> 1:05:01.320 won't know who Max Lowe is. Max low is in 1:05:01.360 --> 1:05:05.520 the outdoor recreation industry is like a rising star. Yeah, 1:05:05.640 --> 1:05:12.200 climber his I would say, Stepdad is Conrad or Conrad anchor. 1:05:12.960 --> 1:05:17.080 So this is a person that isn't traditionally involved in 1:05:17.120 --> 1:05:19.240 what we do anything with hunting. Right. He tells and 1:05:19.320 --> 1:05:21.760 he tells the story to hear about some of that. 1:05:22.120 --> 1:05:24.200 But there's also guys like Jason Matt Singer in here 1:05:24.240 --> 1:05:29.600 who is core hunting um and guys like Charles Post 1:05:29.680 --> 1:05:32.280 who isn't Jesse Griffin is probably not. So there's just 1:05:32.320 --> 1:05:34.920 a lot of different perspectives here, and I'll give you that. 1:05:35.000 --> 1:05:37.840 I think that's that's in the work is reflected and 1:05:37.840 --> 1:05:40.680 I think that the difference right with a magazine with 1:05:41.200 --> 1:05:42.840 a big buck on the cover with the guy sitting 1:05:42.840 --> 1:05:45.640 behind it, that's that's speaking to a specific audience, right, 1:05:45.680 --> 1:05:48.000 There's there's people who that's what they want to see, 1:05:48.200 --> 1:05:51.200 Like they know how to score that deer, they probably 1:05:51.200 --> 1:05:54.480 know where it was, and and that's uh, it's a 1:05:54.520 --> 1:05:57.960 specialized thing, right, And so we're not talking about a 1:05:57.960 --> 1:06:01.640 specialized thing. We're talking about engaged ng with a non 1:06:01.720 --> 1:06:05.720 hunting public. And I'm doing my best to maintain credibility 1:06:05.760 --> 1:06:08.200 in the hunting industry that we do have a balance 1:06:08.320 --> 1:06:12.040 of people who are legitimate hunters. Um. But at the 1:06:12.040 --> 1:06:14.760 same time, you know, I think that, like we were 1:06:14.760 --> 1:06:18.120 talking about earlier, we're not when I say we the 1:06:18.160 --> 1:06:20.280 hunting industry are not going to survive if we don't 1:06:20.320 --> 1:06:25.040 allow other people who aren't considered core hunters into the space, 1:06:25.720 --> 1:06:30.200 because that number is dwindling and things are changing, number 1:06:30.240 --> 1:06:34.240 of populations are growing, humans are screwing everything up, right, 1:06:35.040 --> 1:06:37.919 And so I think that Um. You know, a lot 1:06:37.960 --> 1:06:40.720 of the crossover we've had has been with the outdoor industry, 1:06:40.800 --> 1:06:44.120 guys like Chris Burk Card, guys like Ben Moon and 1:06:44.400 --> 1:06:47.480 Josh Murphy who are award winning filmmakers who do a 1:06:47.520 --> 1:06:50.200 lot of work with Patagonia, and and and every issue 1:06:50.240 --> 1:06:53.520 has been a progression, and we're now having conversations. Our 1:06:53.560 --> 1:06:55.880 next issue is a women's issue, and it's it's all. 1:06:55.920 --> 1:06:58.000 Every story is gonna be focused on women and hunting 1:06:58.040 --> 1:07:00.680 and conservation and you know, calling area and arts and 1:07:00.720 --> 1:07:04.640 all that. And that is a really great access point 1:07:04.840 --> 1:07:07.560 for some of these outdoor brands who now see the 1:07:07.760 --> 1:07:12.400 rising interest in the female population or people. You know, 1:07:12.640 --> 1:07:15.000 we had a quote from Ivan and Um in the 1:07:15.040 --> 1:07:17.440 second issue that was like, people aren't just hunters anymore. 1:07:17.480 --> 1:07:19.840 Their hikers and their climbers and their surfers and their 1:07:19.880 --> 1:07:24.280 hunters Pagonies. Yeah, I mean you're right, and I do 1:07:24.360 --> 1:07:26.280 feel I will say, I want to let let you 1:07:26.360 --> 1:07:28.439 talk about your thing here. I think it's just it's 1:07:28.480 --> 1:07:31.320 interesting and important. But I do agree with you. I 1:07:31.360 --> 1:07:35.600 feel I feel that as a community, we know we've 1:07:35.600 --> 1:07:38.600 got to grow. Everybody would agree with that, right, How 1:07:38.600 --> 1:07:40.800 we do it the way in which we message is 1:07:40.800 --> 1:07:43.320 something we can talk about all day. But I feel 1:07:43.400 --> 1:07:46.640 very strongly that if we if as a community, not 1:07:46.720 --> 1:07:48.880 everyone does this, but there are certain factions that do. 1:07:49.560 --> 1:07:51.760 If we're going to push out people that think differently 1:07:51.800 --> 1:07:54.160 and look differently and act differently, if we're going to 1:07:54.600 --> 1:07:57.160 like typify a hunter and if you don't live up 1:07:57.200 --> 1:07:59.160 to that that thing, if we're gonna push you out 1:07:59.240 --> 1:08:02.320 or or downgrade your status in the hunting industry to 1:08:02.360 --> 1:08:04.280 do things like that, the people, then we're not going 1:08:04.320 --> 1:08:06.360 to grow. We're never going to have the chance to 1:08:06.400 --> 1:08:10.560 expand the way we think, expand the way UM other 1:08:10.560 --> 1:08:12.840 folks think about us. Like we're never going to build 1:08:12.840 --> 1:08:16.679 a bridge ever. And so regardless of how of who's 1:08:16.680 --> 1:08:19.240 on either side of the bridge, if we can't bring 1:08:19.320 --> 1:08:21.200 someone in and say, okay, you're not you're in brand 1:08:21.200 --> 1:08:23.800 new hunter. You may be legit in this field, but 1:08:23.920 --> 1:08:27.000 you're not legit. Come over, let's teach you, let's learn 1:08:27.040 --> 1:08:29.200 from you, exactly Like, if you can't do that, you're 1:08:29.240 --> 1:08:32.559 never gonna nothing's ever gonna happen. So I do agree 1:08:32.600 --> 1:08:34.360 with that, but it's a it's an opportunity, you know. 1:08:34.400 --> 1:08:38.000 I think that that um a lot of people who 1:08:38.040 --> 1:08:42.600 are experienced hunters, and especially out in the West, you know. Uh, 1:08:42.840 --> 1:08:45.360 I would say in a sense, they're kind of xenophobic, right, 1:08:45.439 --> 1:08:49.120 they don't Montana is full go home, right, which you know, 1:08:49.200 --> 1:08:52.040 you don't want gentrification, you don't want massive development all that. 1:08:52.120 --> 1:08:57.200 But if someone's there right with a California plate and 1:08:57.240 --> 1:08:59.920 they're doing something they shouldn't be doing, that's an opportunity 1:09:00.200 --> 1:09:04.360 to engage with them and maybe teach them the right way, right, 1:09:04.479 --> 1:09:08.040 rather than have a confrontational experience that's going to make 1:09:08.080 --> 1:09:12.240 them feel unwelcome or turned off from now be you know, 1:09:12.280 --> 1:09:15.080 growing their interests in hunting and fishing, you know. And 1:09:15.120 --> 1:09:17.320 I think that that's a really important thing to do. 1:09:17.400 --> 1:09:21.040 And it's hard, right because and I wrote about this 1:09:21.200 --> 1:09:24.759 in the editor's letter that in a way modern huntsman 1:09:24.880 --> 1:09:27.680 is meant to be a mirror that's forcing us in 1:09:27.680 --> 1:09:30.719 the hunting industry to think about the what the things 1:09:30.760 --> 1:09:33.400 we say and the things we do. And we're not 1:09:33.400 --> 1:09:36.800 gonna like some of that, right and and so I 1:09:36.800 --> 1:09:41.160 would my hope is that we are not blamed as 1:09:41.280 --> 1:09:45.559 the mirror, the mirror instrument of reflection by viewing something 1:09:45.640 --> 1:09:48.000 unpleasant about the way things are versus the way they 1:09:48.000 --> 1:09:51.120 should be. And so I think that, you know, in 1:09:51.160 --> 1:09:54.559 the spirit of self improvement, I would hope that over 1:09:54.640 --> 1:09:57.800 time that these things can move forward and that this 1:09:57.840 --> 1:10:00.360 can be easier and and you've got let's let's think 1:10:00.360 --> 1:10:02.800 about you know, Dallas a Frai Club and sci right 1:10:02.840 --> 1:10:05.679 at these shows. Think about a non hunter walking into 1:10:05.720 --> 1:10:11.120 those shows. They're like, what is this? You know, and 1:10:11.880 --> 1:10:14.720 I would like to see And this is a conversation 1:10:14.760 --> 1:10:16.800 I'm having with Corey at Dallas a Frai Club, is 1:10:16.840 --> 1:10:20.040 that even if it's a small section that that is 1:10:20.040 --> 1:10:22.640 presented differently, that it's maybe it's a gallery of some 1:10:22.720 --> 1:10:25.559 of this work, or it's you know, some films, or 1:10:25.600 --> 1:10:28.559 it's uh, some chefs, or it's something that's not just 1:10:29.200 --> 1:10:31.640 you know, the traditional convention center with a bunch of 1:10:31.680 --> 1:10:33.920 blown up to animals all over it with you know, 1:10:34.000 --> 1:10:36.360 that that's what it's about. That the current because that 1:10:36.439 --> 1:10:41.679 currency is big horns, uh and and big hunts, and 1:10:41.920 --> 1:10:45.360 that currency needs to shift a little bit, right so 1:10:45.400 --> 1:10:47.439 that it's more about the experience. Because I think we 1:10:47.439 --> 1:10:49.720 could all agree, at least you and mean, I don't 1:10:49.720 --> 1:10:51.479 know about everybody, and that's fine if you want if 1:10:51.479 --> 1:10:53.439 you're just out for the score, But I don't hunt 1:10:53.479 --> 1:10:56.160 for that like I hunt for the experience, and that 1:10:56.280 --> 1:10:58.200 is that that is the way that we get other 1:10:58.240 --> 1:11:01.280 people involved, because that's what you're looking for. Yeah, like 1:11:02.360 --> 1:11:04.760 I I feel let me I'll play devil's advocate for 1:11:04.800 --> 1:11:07.120 a minute because it's always fun to I wouldn't expect 1:11:07.160 --> 1:11:09.599 anything to go there. That's me. I'm the devil's advocate. 1:11:10.200 --> 1:11:12.120 But I really I would say one in this conversation, 1:11:12.120 --> 1:11:15.200 I want to let you just say what modern huntsman 1:11:15.280 --> 1:11:18.200 is and get that out there. How's having a conversation. 1:11:18.200 --> 1:11:20.439 I'm going next week to Berkeley, California. I'm going to 1:11:20.439 --> 1:11:23.960 go to the Berkeley Animal Rights Center. I'm gonna have 1:11:24.000 --> 1:11:27.479 a conversation with some uh animal rights activists and then 1:11:27.520 --> 1:11:31.080 talking to them, I said, specifically about trophy hunting, what 1:11:31.240 --> 1:11:33.720 is it that you what is it that gets you 1:11:33.760 --> 1:11:36.320 about it? It's like, because you're talking about the motivation 1:11:36.360 --> 1:11:38.360 of the individual, you're not talking about the benefit. Because 1:11:38.360 --> 1:11:40.840 if you're looking at the benefit of trophy hunting for 1:11:41.000 --> 1:11:44.600 African game and conservancies and when they were created, and 1:11:44.640 --> 1:11:47.360 the fact that there's more more game than ever, and 1:11:47.400 --> 1:11:49.519 it's more valuable than ever for the people that live there. 1:11:50.400 --> 1:11:52.840 It's kind of you can't really argue that when you really, 1:11:52.840 --> 1:11:54.680 when you look at the facts, you can't. It's hard 1:11:54.720 --> 1:12:00.120 to argue. But if let's just say, if there's a 1:12:00.200 --> 1:12:03.599 small amount of people in this case, and indeed those 1:12:03.680 --> 1:12:06.840 those shows kind of typify or signify what that really is. 1:12:07.240 --> 1:12:09.400 Small amount of people with a lot of money who 1:12:09.439 --> 1:12:12.360 think a certain way, right, those you would never set 1:12:12.439 --> 1:12:16.840 up a stable conservation system in that way. A very 1:12:16.880 --> 1:12:19.400 small amount of people with a lot of funding that 1:12:19.439 --> 1:12:22.000 desire to go to a place that they that they 1:12:22.040 --> 1:12:23.960 may or may not care about. It's not required to 1:12:24.000 --> 1:12:26.320 them to care about the economic or social and economic 1:12:26.520 --> 1:12:30.280 economic issues in Africa or any one country, or the 1:12:30.320 --> 1:12:32.759 wildlife populations in the place where they go. It's required 1:12:32.760 --> 1:12:34.080 of them to pay the money and get on a 1:12:34.120 --> 1:12:37.600 plane and go do their things. So we've not analyzed 1:12:37.640 --> 1:12:41.720 their motivations, which makes that relationship unstable, right, it's an 1:12:41.800 --> 1:12:45.960 unstable relationship. You're relying on that small room of people 1:12:46.000 --> 1:12:47.479 that walk around a d s C or s c 1:12:47.600 --> 1:12:51.959 I and fund but it's a very important conservation initiative. 1:12:52.439 --> 1:12:54.479 So I think that I just think from a from 1:12:54.520 --> 1:12:58.040 a pragmatic level, from a even from a devil's avoca level, 1:12:58.160 --> 1:13:01.920 that's unstable. So you have that point, and then you 1:13:02.000 --> 1:13:04.400 have what's motivating that small group of people to go 1:13:04.520 --> 1:13:06.720 over there to kill those animals, because I don't think 1:13:07.360 --> 1:13:10.120 I don't think anti hunters or non hunters would have 1:13:10.160 --> 1:13:13.320 a problem if that motivation was removed. If those people 1:13:13.360 --> 1:13:15.880 were flying over there, they happen to kill a couple 1:13:15.880 --> 1:13:17.920 of animals and eat them. But they were given that 1:13:18.000 --> 1:13:23.040 money to you know, a conservation organization, to a small government, 1:13:23.360 --> 1:13:27.120 or to some individual or group of people that could 1:13:27.160 --> 1:13:31.439 better the mission, and so it for for most folks, 1:13:31.439 --> 1:13:34.920 I think it falls apart with that motivation. So it's 1:13:34.920 --> 1:13:38.080 hard to separate the motivation from the end result. Yeah, 1:13:38.120 --> 1:13:41.760 and I think that, um, that's something we're actually talking 1:13:41.760 --> 1:13:46.479 a lot about. Uh to boil volume three down to 1:13:46.600 --> 1:13:48.760 the you know, when I say it stated in like 1:13:48.960 --> 1:13:53.040 a one statement, it's there's a lot of amazing animals 1:13:53.160 --> 1:13:56.160 in the world, and for one circumstance or another, a 1:13:56.160 --> 1:13:59.880 lot of them have to die. Yeah, and thankfully they 1:14:00.000 --> 1:14:02.599 there are a lot of systems in place that make 1:14:02.640 --> 1:14:09.639 sure that that is done. Responsibly, sustainably and financially. Financially sensibly, 1:14:10.400 --> 1:14:12.160 I don't know if you're gonna use two in a row, 1:14:12.240 --> 1:14:16.519 but yeah, so in that sense, right, the conversation I've 1:14:16.520 --> 1:14:20.280 always had about Africa, right, because I've filmed again are gamut. Right. 1:14:20.680 --> 1:14:22.840 Some guys save their whole life to go on a 1:14:22.880 --> 1:14:25.439 buffalo and like cried the first time they shot a 1:14:25.479 --> 1:14:29.120 buff with their four seventy double rifle, which was amazing, Right. 1:14:29.120 --> 1:14:31.719 And then I've got guys who just couldn't care less. 1:14:31.880 --> 1:14:35.320 This is their twenties safari, right, And just like with 1:14:35.400 --> 1:14:39.400 any job, you keep your mouth shut, right, you bite 1:14:39.400 --> 1:14:41.120 your tongue and you say, you know what, this guy 1:14:41.280 --> 1:14:44.559 doesn't uphold what I feel to be are the virtues 1:14:44.800 --> 1:14:48.000 of hunting. And I feel like somebody should appreciate what 1:14:48.040 --> 1:14:51.280 they're being able to do right here, but they don't write. Thankfully, 1:14:51.320 --> 1:14:53.080 the system is in place where the money they're paying 1:14:53.160 --> 1:14:55.200 is going to the people who do care and are 1:14:55.240 --> 1:15:00.679 helping that continue. Um. But that's something that we're trying 1:15:00.680 --> 1:15:02.639 to do, is show that there's a difference. Right there 1:15:02.680 --> 1:15:06.360 are the people who don't give a ship, They just 1:15:06.400 --> 1:15:09.479 want to kill, right, But that's not most of us. 1:15:10.040 --> 1:15:13.840 And so I think that creating that distinction for the public, right, 1:15:13.920 --> 1:15:16.280 because when they when someone looks online and they see 1:15:16.640 --> 1:15:19.880 sensationalized Facebook posts or some you know, you know, main 1:15:20.000 --> 1:15:24.240 media slander, they lump hunters all into that category, and 1:15:24.360 --> 1:15:26.320 that's the narrative. Let's bring no, no, no, it is 1:15:26.400 --> 1:15:30.400 the mainstream. However you would define mainstream, that's the narrative 1:15:30.400 --> 1:15:33.960 base push, And it's often like push the narrative to 1:15:34.000 --> 1:15:36.360 the point now where there there's enough people questioning, okay, 1:15:36.400 --> 1:15:38.760 well what's the counter narrative? Right that even when you 1:15:39.080 --> 1:15:41.120 when you watch the New CBS thing or any of 1:15:41.479 --> 1:15:44.120 any of the documentaries, you find people embracing the counter 1:15:44.200 --> 1:15:46.920 narrative enough at least to address it exactly and set 1:15:47.000 --> 1:15:49.599 up the two different sides. So I think that that's 1:15:49.640 --> 1:15:52.840 really the point is to show that, look this, there's 1:15:52.880 --> 1:15:56.800 more than that, right, uh. And and to do that 1:15:56.920 --> 1:16:01.599 requires a little bit of separation from that right and so, um, 1:16:01.640 --> 1:16:05.240 you know, not to say that one's holier than thou, right, 1:16:05.360 --> 1:16:08.360 but it's one of those things where um, I find 1:16:08.520 --> 1:16:12.200 I found myself being held accountable for someone else's actions. 1:16:12.240 --> 1:16:14.960 And I don't really think that's you can't say it's 1:16:14.960 --> 1:16:16.599 fair because that doesn't matter. But you know what I mean, 1:16:16.760 --> 1:16:19.280 I'm trying to do something about it, right, to show 1:16:19.320 --> 1:16:21.760 that there are other people in this world who do 1:16:21.840 --> 1:16:24.759 things differently. And yeah, those guys are assholes, right, Maybe 1:16:24.760 --> 1:16:27.680 the one guy is a dick, but you know what, 1:16:27.800 --> 1:16:29.400 he does pay a lot of money and that money 1:16:29.400 --> 1:16:33.280 goes to the right places. So we can accept the 1:16:33.320 --> 1:16:36.599 bad behavior of Grandpa, you know, and and he can 1:16:36.680 --> 1:16:38.800 he can still hang out. But we just need to 1:16:38.840 --> 1:16:42.240 know that, like, we have our differences. And I would 1:16:42.240 --> 1:16:47.519 hope over time that um, that the support of some 1:16:47.600 --> 1:16:49.040 of the and you know, I worked for a lot 1:16:49.120 --> 1:16:52.920 of um of of guys who are you know, Texas 1:16:53.080 --> 1:16:56.120 um kind of oil barrens, right, And there's some of 1:16:56.160 --> 1:17:01.200 the nicest, most humble people I've ever met my entire life. Um, 1:17:01.240 --> 1:17:04.400 but they're they're old school, right, and they're super conservative 1:17:04.479 --> 1:17:07.280 and so and I'm I'm not a Democrat or a 1:17:07.280 --> 1:17:09.360 liberal by any means. I saw my entire life in Texas, 1:17:09.439 --> 1:17:12.040 but so I try to stay middle of the road. 1:17:12.160 --> 1:17:14.839 It's my job now to be an observer and understand 1:17:14.840 --> 1:17:19.040 both sides and try to find a solution, not a solution, 1:17:19.080 --> 1:17:22.840 but at least progress towards a solution. And so the 1:17:22.880 --> 1:17:26.679 conversations I'm having with guys, you know, like like Larry 1:17:26.800 --> 1:17:29.760 or some of my former clients, is listen, we're all 1:17:29.800 --> 1:17:33.280 going the same direction, right, we all have the same goal, 1:17:33.920 --> 1:17:37.439 but the road that we've been on before isn't working, 1:17:37.760 --> 1:17:39.519 and so we were trying to go on a different road. 1:17:40.040 --> 1:17:42.280 And more than anything, we just need your help, right, 1:17:42.360 --> 1:17:44.400 and we need you to understand that this is not 1:17:44.560 --> 1:17:50.000 some infiltration, you know, greeny, you know, whatever you wanna 1:17:50.040 --> 1:17:54.200 call it. This is it's a psychology move, it's a 1:17:54.360 --> 1:17:57.439 it's a chess move, and we need the backing. So 1:17:57.840 --> 1:18:00.160 you know, those are conversations I'm having with leadership some 1:18:00.160 --> 1:18:03.400 of these organizations is we need we need meat eater, 1:18:03.640 --> 1:18:06.000 we need you know, b h A, we need all 1:18:06.040 --> 1:18:10.320 of those, but we also need this too, because when 1:18:10.320 --> 1:18:12.400 you look at the spectrum, we've got to cover more 1:18:12.400 --> 1:18:15.480 than just the ground we're currently covering. And so that's 1:18:15.520 --> 1:18:18.760 that's what I'm trying to do. Yeah, I mean, when 1:18:18.760 --> 1:18:21.519 you have those conversations with folks in those positions, because 1:18:23.000 --> 1:18:24.840 I think I've probably made a mistake in the past 1:18:24.880 --> 1:18:30.280 of condemning those entire organizations when I go. Now, when 1:18:30.280 --> 1:18:32.280 I go, I think Wild Cheap does a pretty good 1:18:32.360 --> 1:18:34.880 job of They've done a pretty good job. Great Thorte 1:18:34.920 --> 1:18:36.439 and crew have done it. You know what I would 1:18:36.479 --> 1:18:40.880 would would say is a great job of understanding what's 1:18:40.920 --> 1:18:43.519 going on and trying to go to their show, and 1:18:43.520 --> 1:18:46.600 you really feel that they're they're making an effort to 1:18:46.800 --> 1:18:49.560 kind of see both sides of that, see how it was, 1:18:49.760 --> 1:18:51.599 how it needs to be, and really put that all 1:18:51.600 --> 1:18:54.920 together in one thing. What's the conversation with folks that 1:18:55.080 --> 1:18:58.559 like Fari Club or Dallas Fari Club? Do they see 1:18:58.600 --> 1:19:01.599 it when you talk to do they recognize it? Are 1:19:01.600 --> 1:19:04.639 they are they worried? Or or there is an insular 1:19:08.200 --> 1:19:12.600 seeing it more? Right? Um? Because I mean it's a 1:19:12.640 --> 1:19:14.680 tune in seventy two page book. It's not something to 1:19:14.720 --> 1:19:16.960 be like, hey read this Pamplint real quick, right, and 1:19:17.000 --> 1:19:21.519 it's it's pretty in depth. Um. You know, I think 1:19:21.560 --> 1:19:25.680 that the hunting industry or a lot of these organizations, right, 1:19:25.800 --> 1:19:29.200 however good our intentions might be, in most cases, it's 1:19:29.200 --> 1:19:30.960 a room full of members of the same club, all 1:19:30.960 --> 1:19:34.879 agreeing with each other, and when that conversation goes outside 1:19:34.880 --> 1:19:38.400 of the room two people that aren't part of that club. 1:19:39.360 --> 1:19:42.000 A lot of times it ceases to be productive because 1:19:42.000 --> 1:19:46.120 the communication is broke down, right. And so in the 1:19:46.200 --> 1:19:49.479 same way that you know, you can think about a 1:19:49.520 --> 1:19:54.240 PR campaign or communication strategy or a style guide, that's 1:19:54.320 --> 1:19:57.920 what we're trying to do is create a new method 1:19:57.960 --> 1:20:03.560 of communication, uh of of visual representation that is still 1:20:04.439 --> 1:20:07.920 is accomplishing the same goals. But again is is we're 1:20:07.920 --> 1:20:09.840 trying to go around it. So when they see that, 1:20:09.880 --> 1:20:12.880 they're not thinking about Cecil the lion, even though we're 1:20:12.880 --> 1:20:15.120 going to talk about it and we're going to hit 1:20:15.160 --> 1:20:18.160 him with the truth, you know. So I think that 1:20:18.160 --> 1:20:21.800 that's no matter what it is, right, um, because so 1:20:21.880 --> 1:20:26.479 much of the messaging of these organizations is is in interior, right, 1:20:26.520 --> 1:20:29.120 it's two other hunters, it's it's this or that which 1:20:29.160 --> 1:20:31.599 is important, right, because there's a lot of hunters who 1:20:31.920 --> 1:20:34.800 you know, could perhaps stand to to learn more about 1:20:35.040 --> 1:20:38.120 you know, public land or do more than just pay 1:20:38.200 --> 1:20:41.200 the Pittman robertson tax right or get involved. Right. That's 1:20:41.240 --> 1:20:44.840 all stuff that's good, um, But like, like we all 1:20:44.880 --> 1:20:47.320 agree that those numbers are going down, So where's that 1:20:47.360 --> 1:20:50.439 going to come from? And I personally believe it's going 1:20:50.520 --> 1:20:53.440 to come from outside and the only way to accomplish 1:20:53.520 --> 1:20:56.800 that is to communicate in a different way. Yeah. Do 1:20:56.800 --> 1:21:00.920 you feel like, all right, I'm sure I'm guilty of 1:21:00.920 --> 1:21:02.920 this is something level too. Do you feel like you 1:21:03.040 --> 1:21:05.920 talk so much about it and you think so much 1:21:05.960 --> 1:21:08.880 about it, and you think about and like you said, 1:21:08.880 --> 1:21:10.719 it's not a new way, but it's just like your 1:21:10.800 --> 1:21:13.760 way articulating what hunting is or what it could be 1:21:13.880 --> 1:21:16.960 or it's really it's value proposition for society, which I 1:21:16.960 --> 1:21:19.519 think what we're talking about anyway, Like is it valuable 1:21:19.560 --> 1:21:22.360 for society? Yes? Or no? That's what everybody wants to know. 1:21:22.400 --> 1:21:24.960 It's hunting. We're in a different spot and we have 1:21:25.439 --> 1:21:29.880 human linkage like all the way going back to when 1:21:29.920 --> 1:21:33.519 we were hominids to to this activity. So there's no 1:21:33.640 --> 1:21:36.680 arguing that. But in the modern sense, our length, the 1:21:36.760 --> 1:21:39.599 links in the chain are starting to get get broken. Yeah, 1:21:40.560 --> 1:21:45.760 So is there is there a version of this where 1:21:45.760 --> 1:21:49.439 you're worried about pulling the wool over people's eyes, like, hey, 1:21:49.479 --> 1:21:51.519 this is how it really is, right, modern huntsman, is 1:21:51.560 --> 1:21:54.000 how it really is. But people can can the people 1:21:54.000 --> 1:21:56.479 that I don't agree with can remain under the cover 1:21:56.640 --> 1:21:58.960 of what I've created to do the things they want 1:21:58.960 --> 1:22:01.880 to do, and not I. I do not in any 1:22:01.880 --> 1:22:04.840 way believe that this is, you know, hardline, this is 1:22:04.840 --> 1:22:07.760 the way it should be, right. I think that what 1:22:07.800 --> 1:22:11.120 I'm what what we're trying to do is we're not 1:22:11.120 --> 1:22:12.760 trying to be the experts. I'm not. I mean, I 1:22:12.960 --> 1:22:14.680 spent a lot of time in Africa, right, so I 1:22:14.720 --> 1:22:17.360 have a lot of experience that has given me knowledge. 1:22:18.040 --> 1:22:20.560 But I'm not an expert, and I don't know you're 1:22:20.560 --> 1:22:24.360 pretty your expertise is pretty bona fied, Okay, but we're 1:22:24.360 --> 1:22:26.800 not talking about but I'm not a researcher. I don't 1:22:26.840 --> 1:22:29.800 live there, even though I have and there are Basically, 1:22:30.160 --> 1:22:32.240 if we were going to get put on the spot, 1:22:32.479 --> 1:22:34.639 I would not I would get somebody else who knows 1:22:34.640 --> 1:22:36.760 more than me there, right, and so on all of 1:22:36.760 --> 1:22:38.880 these topics and all these issues. I'm trying to bring 1:22:38.920 --> 1:22:42.880 together a diverse array of perspectives that present what I 1:22:42.920 --> 1:22:47.040 feel to be constructive conversations, right, to show some diversity, 1:22:47.560 --> 1:22:50.200 to talk about it in a different way. Um. And 1:22:50.240 --> 1:22:51.760 it's not that I think that like this is the 1:22:51.760 --> 1:22:54.880 way it should be Charles always says the term best 1:22:54.960 --> 1:22:57.840 and could be better practices. Right, These are people that 1:22:57.880 --> 1:23:00.840 we feel like are doing really good work. Right, doesn't 1:23:00.840 --> 1:23:02.639 mean that somebody else is bad. And we're not trying 1:23:02.680 --> 1:23:05.960 to point fingers slap risk, but showing good examples that 1:23:06.000 --> 1:23:10.000 we feel good about promoting, right, And uh, you know, 1:23:10.040 --> 1:23:11.760 it's it's it's one of those things that it's it's 1:23:11.800 --> 1:23:15.120 going to be ever changing, right because the whole hunting 1:23:15.160 --> 1:23:19.160 is conservation thing right now, it is right, hunting pays 1:23:19.200 --> 1:23:23.240 for whatever. You know, what's the person that's gonna go down, 1:23:24.800 --> 1:23:27.720 you know, and so what's the alternative? Right? The alternative 1:23:27.800 --> 1:23:33.200 has got to be across collaboration with non hunting organizations, right. 1:23:33.240 --> 1:23:35.120 I mean in Africa the perfect example. I was just 1:23:35.120 --> 1:23:39.400 in Namibia and there's um, you know there there's these 1:23:39.439 --> 1:23:43.240 community based conservancies, right where a village gets to decide, 1:23:43.520 --> 1:23:47.400 they participate in the census, they get to decide who 1:23:47.439 --> 1:23:51.479 gets to hunt. They they vet the outfitter. Uh, they 1:23:51.560 --> 1:23:54.840 get community hunting privileges, they get the meat, they get 1:23:54.840 --> 1:23:56.960 the money, they decide how to use the money. Right, 1:23:57.000 --> 1:24:01.960 they're managing their own wildlife resources. But these areas bump 1:24:02.080 --> 1:24:06.639 up against photographics so far areas right, and in most 1:24:06.680 --> 1:24:10.800 cases the photographic lodges were paid for by the community conservancy. 1:24:10.840 --> 1:24:13.760 So they're now having to have these difficult because these 1:24:13.760 --> 1:24:16.280 photographic clients come in they're like, oh, this is bullshit. 1:24:16.400 --> 1:24:18.639 I can't believe you would allow people to murder these animals, 1:24:18.640 --> 1:24:21.759 Like well, first of all, murder means human. Second of all, 1:24:22.280 --> 1:24:26.720 this was paid for by that And so those conversations 1:24:26.760 --> 1:24:29.840 are helping them, you know, in and that allows them 1:24:29.840 --> 1:24:32.880 to hire more scouts, right, more anti poaching. Now the 1:24:32.920 --> 1:24:36.439 farmers are invested in protecting the wildlife rather than scaring 1:24:36.520 --> 1:24:38.519 them off with a pitchfork because they smashed their crops. 1:24:39.160 --> 1:24:44.080 And so that mixture, right of of non hunting and 1:24:44.160 --> 1:24:46.840 hunting is that's the only way I I feel like, 1:24:47.000 --> 1:24:49.320 I don't know what that mixture looks like. But the 1:24:49.360 --> 1:24:52.479 conversations are starting now, and and those are conversations we 1:24:52.479 --> 1:24:55.920 were having in Africa, um and and it's something that 1:24:55.960 --> 1:24:58.000 actually we're probably gonna do a story on. Is is 1:24:58.040 --> 1:25:02.639 plant someone in these lodges an interview photographic Safari people 1:25:02.680 --> 1:25:04.360 as they come through, like, Hey, how do you feel 1:25:04.400 --> 1:25:07.120 about the fact that this place was funded by community 1:25:07.160 --> 1:25:12.720 based hunting. You know, that's what I mean. Yeah, that's 1:25:12.760 --> 1:25:14.439 That's where I'm at two, And I wonder there's a 1:25:14.479 --> 1:25:16.760 lot of things where this manifests itself. The point that 1:25:16.800 --> 1:25:20.120 I'm making about wanting to say, this is the way 1:25:20.160 --> 1:25:23.320 I think about hunting. You should love hunting the way 1:25:23.360 --> 1:25:26.000 I love it. And then people come walking into, you know, 1:25:26.200 --> 1:25:28.479 the tent in which we've invited them to come into, 1:25:28.520 --> 1:25:30.040 and they look around there, Wait a minute, what's that 1:25:30.080 --> 1:25:33.280 over there? Like, well, that's kind of that's Grandpaul, he's 1:25:33.360 --> 1:25:36.320 over there. And so that's manifests itself in a lot 1:25:36.360 --> 1:25:41.000 of things. We say harvest not kill. We like, we've 1:25:41.040 --> 1:25:43.360 watered down some of the things in an effort to 1:25:43.880 --> 1:25:47.519 better message, but we've also watered down the realities. So 1:25:47.560 --> 1:25:50.479 how do you balance that? Because I will do that 1:25:50.520 --> 1:25:52.680 all the time, But so how do you use this 1:25:52.720 --> 1:25:55.600 example before? Too? So think about if you're talking to 1:25:55.600 --> 1:25:58.559 your wife right and you're maybe you're feeling in the 1:25:58.560 --> 1:26:01.519 mood there's a friends and saying I would like to 1:26:01.560 --> 1:26:05.360 make love or I would like to screw. That's true, okay, 1:26:05.479 --> 1:26:08.400 So think of it that way. The choice of words 1:26:08.479 --> 1:26:12.679 and the tone that those words inject and that's kind 1:26:12.720 --> 1:26:16.040 of the whole basis of this is do we need 1:26:16.080 --> 1:26:20.080 to apologize? No? Do we need to change our lifestyles? 1:26:20.520 --> 1:26:23.639 And in most cases no, do we need to change 1:26:23.680 --> 1:26:25.720 the way that we present ourselves and the way that 1:26:25.760 --> 1:26:29.480 we communicate with people who aren't in the hunt in industry? Yeah, absolutely, 1:26:29.560 --> 1:26:32.120 in a major way, or it's going to get worse. 1:26:32.840 --> 1:26:35.880 And and so I think that, um, you know, that's 1:26:35.880 --> 1:26:38.280 that's kind of what it is. And and it's uh. 1:26:38.439 --> 1:26:40.880 And instead of saying, Okay, we're backed up against the ropes, 1:26:40.960 --> 1:26:44.160 we're gonna start swinging. Just get out of the ring 1:26:44.200 --> 1:26:45.800 for a second, be like, you know what, let's have 1:26:45.840 --> 1:26:50.360 a beer, Let's take a break. I'm not good at 1:26:50.360 --> 1:26:53.960 boxing anyway. So which isn't true, by the way, Yeah, 1:26:54.000 --> 1:26:58.000 you're telling me not. I think it's it's it's one 1:26:59.120 --> 1:27:01.600 people who know me will know. It's a willingness to 1:27:01.600 --> 1:27:06.040 have the conversation, like the strength of conviction to know, like, 1:27:06.080 --> 1:27:07.479 I love this thing. I want to I want to 1:27:07.479 --> 1:27:09.439 have every single conversation I could possibly have to make 1:27:09.479 --> 1:27:12.080 it better. I want to show that in my actions. 1:27:12.120 --> 1:27:14.840 I would show that in my creative work, which which 1:27:14.880 --> 1:27:18.120 is um, which which is what modern huntsman is But like, 1:27:18.200 --> 1:27:22.800 continue to believe that this is good, believe that it 1:27:22.840 --> 1:27:28.679 needs better pr and believe that I, me, you, whomever 1:27:29.200 --> 1:27:32.320 can be a part of that change. Is that change 1:27:32.360 --> 1:27:35.160 gonna is there gonna be some spasmatic pushback from any 1:27:35.240 --> 1:27:37.880 change or any kind of like stated purpose like that. 1:27:37.960 --> 1:27:41.280 Of course there's going to be. UM, but I think 1:27:41.320 --> 1:27:44.439 there's You've been tested. I've been tethering. People will test you. 1:27:44.600 --> 1:27:47.280 Do you really believe this? How much do you believe this? 1:27:47.680 --> 1:27:49.439 How much are you willing to stand by the thing 1:27:49.479 --> 1:27:51.360 that you said that's controversial with the thing that you 1:27:51.400 --> 1:27:54.920 said that not everyone agrees with. Um, it's tough. You 1:27:54.960 --> 1:27:58.200 talk about being close to brands. I'm close to brands. 1:27:58.240 --> 1:28:01.519 We have people that help fund what we do or 1:28:01.640 --> 1:28:04.240 part of what we do, and it's hard to challenge 1:28:04.560 --> 1:28:09.559 cultural norms in that in that over branded environment. Yeah, 1:28:09.560 --> 1:28:11.679 And and I want to clarify, I don't I don't 1:28:11.760 --> 1:28:15.000 mean that every single person needs to do this. I 1:28:15.040 --> 1:28:18.280 think that, uh, that there are always going to be 1:28:19.040 --> 1:28:22.240 you know, individuals who choose to be the mouthpiece or 1:28:22.360 --> 1:28:25.360 the vagabonds or whatever it is. That this isn't like, oh, 1:28:25.360 --> 1:28:28.320 everybody needs to become better. It's more about an awareness 1:28:28.600 --> 1:28:31.920 of the need for it. Right. And I know that 1:28:31.960 --> 1:28:34.880 not everybody is gonna agree with what I say or 1:28:34.960 --> 1:28:37.080 that is going to support modern huntsmen. And it doesn't 1:28:37.080 --> 1:28:38.519 matter what I say or what I do. There's gonna 1:28:38.520 --> 1:28:41.280 be some people who just hardline in the sand against 1:28:41.320 --> 1:28:44.519 it for whatever reason, and that's fine. I would just 1:28:44.600 --> 1:28:48.760 hope that they would have the ability to understand what 1:28:48.800 --> 1:28:52.160 we're trying to accomplish, and in the same way that 1:28:52.200 --> 1:28:55.479 the diplomats and conservationists and statesmen before us had a 1:28:55.520 --> 1:29:00.080 sense of of classy competition, you know, to just I 1:29:00.120 --> 1:29:03.680 couldn't respectfully disagree, right instead of drag it through the 1:29:03.760 --> 1:29:06.880 mud or or debase it for for some reason that 1:29:07.040 --> 1:29:10.959 isn't true. Um, And that's still gonna happen, right, Um. 1:29:11.000 --> 1:29:13.559 But you know, situations like this to be able to, 1:29:13.840 --> 1:29:16.320 for the first time ever, actually talk about this with you, um, 1:29:16.360 --> 1:29:21.320 about what what it? Why? Yeah? I mean, and I'm 1:29:21.360 --> 1:29:23.800 it's like I always beat this drum a lot. But 1:29:23.880 --> 1:29:27.799 I feel like the reason that that this is interesting 1:29:27.840 --> 1:29:29.880 to me, and the reason hunting and supporting ethics are 1:29:29.920 --> 1:29:33.920 interesting to me, and the reason that conservation other than 1:29:33.960 --> 1:29:37.840 it's tangible benefits. Is interesting to me is because as 1:29:37.840 --> 1:29:41.240 a practice, it's always shifting and moving and growing. Ecology 1:29:41.320 --> 1:29:44.160 is that way. Ecosystems are that way. The outside world 1:29:44.200 --> 1:29:47.599 is that way, always moving, shifting, growing, changing. You always 1:29:47.640 --> 1:29:50.759 have to react to what's happening. You can't always manage 1:29:50.760 --> 1:29:53.400 wildlife in the way that you've always managed wildlife, and 1:29:53.439 --> 1:29:55.599 you can't always talk about hunting the way you've always 1:29:55.600 --> 1:29:59.000 talked about hunting and then and you can't always practice 1:29:59.040 --> 1:30:01.799 ethical boundary like place your ethical boundaries in the same places. 1:30:01.840 --> 1:30:04.320 You have to move and shift them around based on 1:30:04.720 --> 1:30:07.760 you know, your personal experiences in your situation. So that's 1:30:07.760 --> 1:30:10.479 why they're there. Is it's endlessly interesting to me. It 1:30:10.520 --> 1:30:14.280 may it may never come to a conclusion, likely will never, 1:30:15.479 --> 1:30:18.360 but that's the that's that's what hunting is, honey. Is 1:30:18.400 --> 1:30:21.200 this this tangible activity that is always moving and always 1:30:21.240 --> 1:30:24.760 changed within who we are, what we do, our humanity. 1:30:24.840 --> 1:30:27.840 For Christ's sakes. That may be overstating it, I mean 1:30:27.880 --> 1:30:30.280 it is. That's how I feel about it. Yeah, Well, 1:30:30.320 --> 1:30:33.720 and it's funny because I I always I had this realization. 1:30:34.560 --> 1:30:36.120 I think it was maybe two thousand and eight, two 1:30:36.120 --> 1:30:37.960 thousand nine. I had just come back from Pakistan where 1:30:38.000 --> 1:30:39.680 where we were it was a shock game. We were 1:30:39.680 --> 1:30:43.960 filming the Ibex Hunt up there, and UM we stayed. 1:30:44.000 --> 1:30:46.240 I stayed for an additional three weeks. I'm gonna tell 1:30:46.240 --> 1:30:48.200 a site story and I'll come back to that with 1:30:48.280 --> 1:30:52.720 Corey's brother Buck Milton, who side note leak got noodling 1:30:53.120 --> 1:30:57.960 legalized in the state of Texas, and we stayed in 1:30:57.960 --> 1:31:00.960 Pakistan for another three weeks. One of the most to 1:31:00.960 --> 1:31:03.360 play amazing places I've ever been. Um. And we we 1:31:03.439 --> 1:31:05.639 had a little guide who took us around and saw 1:31:06.040 --> 1:31:09.960 museums and went hunting, and we had grown beards out 1:31:10.000 --> 1:31:11.800 and we were wearing the Shalwar kimies just to try 1:31:11.840 --> 1:31:14.400 to blend in a little bit. And Um we were 1:31:14.960 --> 1:31:19.200 in Lahore, which is I believe, the capital, and um 1:31:19.240 --> 1:31:21.639 Brady and I will Buck and I were driving around 1:31:21.800 --> 1:31:23.800 and we were in like a Toyota cambri So and 1:31:23.800 --> 1:31:25.680 it was clean and it wasn't dented up, so it's 1:31:25.680 --> 1:31:27.920 a pretty nice car for their and this guide is 1:31:28.040 --> 1:31:29.840 driving us and we're going down this road and there's 1:31:29.880 --> 1:31:33.519 like donkeys jumping on cars and just madness, and this 1:31:33.680 --> 1:31:37.439 cop car just comes screaming up next to us, runs 1:31:37.479 --> 1:31:40.640 us off the road, screaming pointed to get out of 1:31:40.640 --> 1:31:42.760 the car, aims his gun at my head, you know, 1:31:42.840 --> 1:31:47.080 shouting at me and Urdu and u and we uh, 1:31:47.160 --> 1:31:49.799 we had no idea what was going on. And uh 1:31:49.840 --> 1:31:52.200 it turns out there had been a terrorist attack. And 1:31:52.280 --> 1:31:55.200 I fit the description of one of the terrorists. Remember 1:31:55.200 --> 1:31:57.920 that famous national geographic picture of the girl, the Afghani girl, 1:31:58.400 --> 1:32:02.080 She's Patan, which is a re in Pakistan. Um. That 1:32:02.240 --> 1:32:04.640 just so happened that these gunmen were from there, and 1:32:04.680 --> 1:32:07.400 so I literally it was a green eyed, dark haired, 1:32:07.479 --> 1:32:10.400 got light skinned guy. So I almost got gunned down 1:32:10.439 --> 1:32:14.000 on the side of the road in Pakistan and um 1:32:14.080 --> 1:32:16.040 and and after that, you know, we showed them our 1:32:16.080 --> 1:32:19.479 passports are like, oh hey, oh friendly at this point. 1:32:19.800 --> 1:32:24.840 So uh. And then I went home and I when 1:32:24.880 --> 1:32:26.720 I would try to tell this story, or actually I 1:32:26.760 --> 1:32:29.240 don't even think I ever told my mom that's that story. 1:32:29.280 --> 1:32:31.479 But when I try to tell any story or have 1:32:31.560 --> 1:32:35.320 a conversation, I think about my small town Texas mother. 1:32:36.120 --> 1:32:38.000 How do I tell the story in a way that 1:32:38.080 --> 1:32:40.600 she will take something away from it right, that she 1:32:40.680 --> 1:32:44.080 can understand it, that can't be so in the weeds 1:32:44.160 --> 1:32:47.360 and and you know, jargon and big words and and 1:32:47.520 --> 1:32:49.960 based on individual experience only that it's got to be 1:32:50.040 --> 1:32:52.600 something that you know. And I and I need to 1:32:52.720 --> 1:32:54.400 I say this every time. I need to look up 1:32:54.439 --> 1:32:56.240 whose quote this actually was. But it was one of 1:32:56.280 --> 1:33:01.120 the classics, right, Galileo, Aristotle, somebody, somebody real, and they said, 1:33:01.160 --> 1:33:04.760 what good is wisdom if the common man can't understand it? Right? 1:33:04.800 --> 1:33:08.240 And so I think that's kind of the goal, is 1:33:08.520 --> 1:33:12.280 to present what are otherwise perceived to be pretty controversial 1:33:12.360 --> 1:33:15.599 or complex topics in a way that not only the 1:33:15.640 --> 1:33:18.880 common person can understand from a storytelling point, but also 1:33:18.960 --> 1:33:22.280 somebody who has zero access, were very limited access to 1:33:23.280 --> 1:33:26.080 a background in hunting, you know, the way of a 1:33:26.120 --> 1:33:27.880 segment on the show called Damn Near Died. I was 1:33:27.880 --> 1:33:29.719 gonna ask you later on about it, but I feel 1:33:29.720 --> 1:33:32.760 like you've given yeah, like three of them. I've there's 1:33:32.760 --> 1:33:35.559 been a lot. Actually there was one that happened two 1:33:35.600 --> 1:33:37.840 days ago. Okay, this this one's gonna be sponsored by 1:33:37.880 --> 1:33:41.720 federal premium. You possibly apply to the other three with 1:33:41.800 --> 1:33:44.719 this one, we're going to controversial. It's sponsored by federal premium. 1:33:44.760 --> 1:33:48.480 But we'll see, so they'll like. I was in Yellowstone 1:33:48.920 --> 1:33:52.200 and I was fishing with a buddy, UM on Sunday, 1:33:52.280 --> 1:33:54.800 so a couple of days ago, and he left, he 1:33:55.120 --> 1:33:58.120 went back to Bozeman, and I was taking my time, UM, 1:33:58.120 --> 1:34:01.400 coming up from the West Entrance, up towards Gardner and 1:34:01.439 --> 1:34:04.640 past the Norris geyser basins, and UM, I wanted to 1:34:04.680 --> 1:34:06.759 stop somewhere and just kind of get out and enjoy myself. 1:34:06.760 --> 1:34:08.920 So I stopped. I saw this like nondescript pull out 1:34:08.960 --> 1:34:11.599 with no trail head pulled out and I could see 1:34:11.600 --> 1:34:13.320 some steam coming from down there. I was like, oh, 1:34:13.400 --> 1:34:14.680 it's kind of cool. I've never been down the I'm 1:34:14.680 --> 1:34:17.479 gonna go check it out. So I get my binos, 1:34:17.520 --> 1:34:20.040 get the bear spray, get some water, go down there, 1:34:20.240 --> 1:34:24.320 and UM, it's this really cool, open, scalded white area 1:34:24.479 --> 1:34:26.360 with steam coming up everywhere. And I was like, I 1:34:26.400 --> 1:34:28.880 don't want to fall into a volcano. I'm gonna stay 1:34:28.920 --> 1:34:31.040 close to the tree line. So I follow the tree line. 1:34:31.080 --> 1:34:33.280 I go down there for twenty minutes, thirty minutes, kind 1:34:33.280 --> 1:34:36.320 of explore, find this huge pool that's like spring fed. Like, okay, 1:34:36.320 --> 1:34:38.280 I should probably start going back, So I come back 1:34:39.040 --> 1:34:41.559 and in the same way that you can sense when 1:34:41.560 --> 1:34:44.599 a lion is close, Like, all of a sudden, I 1:34:44.600 --> 1:34:48.200 could feel that there was a bear like right there, 1:34:49.160 --> 1:34:53.240 and I froze and like grab the bear spray and 1:34:53.400 --> 1:34:57.719 hurt them right And I kind of started to sneak 1:34:58.240 --> 1:35:01.040 towards the direction I thought was the opposite way, and 1:35:01.040 --> 1:35:05.479 then I see another pair of tracks right there, and 1:35:05.520 --> 1:35:07.040 I go a little bit further and I see two 1:35:07.040 --> 1:35:10.800 more pairs of tracks. There was four bears. And I 1:35:10.840 --> 1:35:13.320 was like, well, you know, I mean, I just got 1:35:13.320 --> 1:35:15.720 goose bumps again, and uh, and I was, you know, 1:35:16.040 --> 1:35:18.120 on high alert. I started kind of kicking rocks and 1:35:18.160 --> 1:35:20.960 trying to make a little bit of noise um and 1:35:21.160 --> 1:35:24.760 just I didn't run, but just started to briskly move 1:35:24.840 --> 1:35:27.400 towards my truck. And I get up the hill and 1:35:27.400 --> 1:35:29.360 I get back to my truck and this park ranger 1:35:29.400 --> 1:35:31.479 comes driving up slams on his breaks, like, oh my god, 1:35:31.560 --> 1:35:33.000 is this your tacoma? I was like yeah. He's like, 1:35:33.000 --> 1:35:34.840 thank God, you're alive. I'm like, what are you talking about. 1:35:35.000 --> 1:35:37.880 He's like, we just chased this super aggressive female and 1:35:37.880 --> 1:35:40.880 her three cubs off the road down to exactly where 1:35:40.920 --> 1:35:44.599 you were and so probably with him thirty seconds this 1:35:44.760 --> 1:35:47.400 like piste off female and her three cubs came running 1:35:47.439 --> 1:35:52.519 through there and I missed the tracks by like this much. Yeah, 1:35:52.640 --> 1:35:54.400 they would have just kept running with you in the 1:35:54.560 --> 1:35:57.120 in their mouth probably, and so he was and then 1:35:57.120 --> 1:35:59.880 he kind of made light of it, you know, but yeah, 1:36:00.120 --> 1:36:04.400 pretty much and your body. So yeah, that was a 1:36:04.479 --> 1:36:07.920 that was an exciting end to the Yellowstone Trip on Sunday. 1:36:07.960 --> 1:36:09.960 Well good, you got but like four damn near dies 1:36:09.960 --> 1:36:14.360 in one podcast. Then we've there's more if you need 1:36:14.400 --> 1:36:17.479 him sometimes yeah, well maybe yeah, maybe I'll have you 1:36:17.479 --> 1:36:21.400 called others like seed danger ship that you've done to them. 1:36:21.439 --> 1:36:23.800 But yeah, I mean I think all this man, all 1:36:23.880 --> 1:36:28.080 this conversation for me, I can I can get repetitive 1:36:28.120 --> 1:36:31.200 for me. So it's nice to have you come here 1:36:31.200 --> 1:36:34.200 and just kind of explain what your mission is, what 1:36:34.280 --> 1:36:36.519 the purpose of Moner huntsman is, and your your vision 1:36:36.600 --> 1:36:40.800 for it. Because I've been I've been in journalism for 1:36:41.000 --> 1:36:45.000 you know, to eleven years something like that. Um, I 1:36:45.040 --> 1:36:50.439 think every print writer, every creative that puts together media 1:36:51.240 --> 1:36:53.519 would take a look at modern hunts and be like 1:36:53.760 --> 1:36:56.599 this is good, Like it's it's good for a lot 1:36:56.600 --> 1:37:00.120 of reasons. It's quality paper, it's good photography, it's all 1:37:00.160 --> 1:37:03.800 thought out. It's a diverse um and and not only 1:37:03.840 --> 1:37:07.080 in its subject matter, but in its personalities and then 1:37:07.160 --> 1:37:10.840 the characters within it. So you know, that's what I think, 1:37:11.120 --> 1:37:14.320 and I thought that since the beginning, and so kudos 1:37:14.320 --> 1:37:16.200 for that. I think it stands out in that way 1:37:16.760 --> 1:37:19.280 above a lot of things that are done in its 1:37:19.360 --> 1:37:21.560 own way. So and it's and it's got its own personality, 1:37:21.600 --> 1:37:24.320 like it's got its own function within the world. It's 1:37:24.360 --> 1:37:26.960 clear to me. Um, So thanks for that. I think 1:37:27.880 --> 1:37:31.639 there's no bad effort, there's no there's it's a net 1:37:31.640 --> 1:37:34.720 positive no matter how it chakes out well, you know, 1:37:34.760 --> 1:37:37.240 and it's one of those things where we're gonna stumble 1:37:37.360 --> 1:37:40.320 or and it you know how high the stakes are, right, 1:37:40.800 --> 1:37:44.800 So it's so difficult to move forward in you know, 1:37:44.840 --> 1:37:46.240 the way that you feel like it's the right way, 1:37:46.240 --> 1:37:48.200 because if you say the wrong thing, you do the 1:37:48.240 --> 1:37:49.799 wrong thing a lot of times, a lot of cases, 1:37:49.960 --> 1:37:52.600 you can't take it back right or it could be 1:37:52.640 --> 1:37:55.479 the end. And uh, and so it is, you know, 1:37:55.600 --> 1:37:58.880 the stakes feel very high. And uh. And I remember 1:37:58.880 --> 1:38:01.559 trying to explain to my mom, and she was like, Tyler, 1:38:01.680 --> 1:38:03.559 She's like, it sounds like you're just having head first 1:38:03.600 --> 1:38:08.559 into controversy. Your mom's your mom's Texas was like pretty 1:38:08.680 --> 1:38:11.400 pretty much. Actually your thank you for pointing that out. 1:38:11.400 --> 1:38:15.679 What's wrong with you? Tyler? Come on? Actually, side note, 1:38:16.280 --> 1:38:18.559 My first name is actually William. I go by William Tyler, 1:38:19.240 --> 1:38:21.160 and which was a pain in the ass growing up 1:38:21.200 --> 1:38:23.519 because you you know, you get called in elementary school 1:38:23.560 --> 1:38:25.720 and they're like WILLIAMS Sharpe. I'd have to say here, 1:38:25.760 --> 1:38:27.080 but I go by Tyler and then all the kids 1:38:27.120 --> 1:38:29.160 make fun of you. Straight up. I asked her about 1:38:29.200 --> 1:38:31.160 five years ago, why did you name me William Tyler 1:38:31.200 --> 1:38:32.840 and decided to go by my middle name, and her 1:38:32.920 --> 1:38:35.679 straight answer she goes, well, I nine you William Tyler 1:38:35.720 --> 1:38:37.080 because I hope when you grew up we call you 1:38:37.120 --> 1:38:42.280 Billy T. So if modern Huntsman crashes and burns and 1:38:42.320 --> 1:38:44.680 I failed, you see this, I'm going to become an 1:38:44.680 --> 1:38:47.519 outlaw country singer named Billy. So look out, we look 1:38:47.560 --> 1:38:50.439 at release. Look actually, please don't look out, because that 1:38:50.479 --> 1:38:52.280 would be a bad sign, would be terrible. Yeah, I 1:38:52.320 --> 1:38:53.720 want to look at some of the people that are 1:38:53.720 --> 1:38:56.200 in volume three Wins Volume three come out, so it 1:38:56.320 --> 1:38:59.280 should be shipping hopefully next week. By the time you 1:38:59.320 --> 1:39:02.320 hear this will be out in the world. So um 1:39:02.479 --> 1:39:05.400 go go pick it up. You got this is this 1:39:05.479 --> 1:39:09.040 is to to your credit. You have due perfect people 1:39:09.040 --> 1:39:13.320 tell people who do perfect. So they are five just 1:39:13.520 --> 1:39:16.360 friends from Texas who started making trick shot videos in 1:39:16.360 --> 1:39:18.519 their backyard. And I didn't know this, but the first 1:39:18.600 --> 1:39:21.000 YouTube video they ever posted, Good Morning America called them 1:39:21.040 --> 1:39:24.519 the next day and since then they have become They 1:39:24.680 --> 1:39:27.320 fluctuated between number one and number two YouTube channel in 1:39:27.360 --> 1:39:29.320 the world. They got a show on like what Nickelodeon 1:39:29.560 --> 1:39:32.080 they did, They have a partnership with bass pro and 1:39:32.160 --> 1:39:34.559 all that. But I think they have about forty million. 1:39:34.600 --> 1:39:36.559 I'm sure it's more by the time we've done the interview. 1:39:37.080 --> 1:39:40.439 But they're big hunters and so they have struggled with 1:39:40.720 --> 1:39:43.959 being able to communicate about their hunting. They they realized 1:39:44.000 --> 1:39:45.800 that dude perfects that channel. People aren't going to that 1:39:45.840 --> 1:39:49.360 channel to learn about hunting, but on their personal social media. Um. 1:39:49.400 --> 1:39:51.680 So it was a cool conversation to hear about. You know, 1:39:51.800 --> 1:39:56.400 what their plans are and what ways they see being 1:39:56.400 --> 1:39:59.719 able to use their platform to help further this mission. 1:39:59.760 --> 1:40:02.280 And and and they're, you know, very much aware of 1:40:02.320 --> 1:40:06.960 the importance of tone and in their own content. So yeah, 1:40:07.000 --> 1:40:08.680 and they do. They're all texts boys, or at least 1:40:08.680 --> 1:40:10.439 some of them are, right. Yeah, no, I think they 1:40:10.439 --> 1:40:15.320 all are. You have our buddy Jesse Griffiths in here. Yeah. Yeah, 1:40:15.439 --> 1:40:18.200 Jesse's great, and it was cool to give him a 1:40:18.200 --> 1:40:21.960 platform to talk about his hog obsession and he's talked 1:40:22.000 --> 1:40:24.080 about it on this podcast. Yeah. I could listen to 1:40:24.160 --> 1:40:27.080 him talk about Yea, he has a forthcoming. Uh, it's 1:40:27.120 --> 1:40:29.080 like a cookbook. It's like it's a second So it's 1:40:29.200 --> 1:40:31.880 a sequel to a Field and I think it. I 1:40:31.920 --> 1:40:34.120 don't know if it has the same name, but it's 1:40:34.200 --> 1:40:36.400 much more focused on Hawks. That's all I told. He 1:40:36.439 --> 1:40:38.400 explained it to me. This is I'm doing a book 1:40:38.400 --> 1:40:41.920 about Farrell Hawks. Yeah, which is awesome. I am. You 1:40:41.960 --> 1:40:45.000 have Simon Roosevelt, Yeah, yeah, talk about I don't think 1:40:45.000 --> 1:40:46.559 a lot of people know who Simon is. Talking about 1:40:46.560 --> 1:40:49.320 your relations he's kind of a dark course. Um So, 1:40:49.320 --> 1:40:54.120 Simon is the great great grandson of tr And I 1:40:54.240 --> 1:40:57.639 met Simon at Dal Safari Club probably five years ago, 1:40:58.320 --> 1:41:01.240 and um I remember he was he's working on a 1:41:01.240 --> 1:41:04.400 book currently. I believe Andy Anderson shooting the book, and 1:41:04.560 --> 1:41:08.160 it's about hunting's role in conservation in North America broken 1:41:08.160 --> 1:41:11.360 into different regions and uh and and I was having 1:41:11.400 --> 1:41:14.080 a conversation with him at Michelle Montiaka's booth, my friend 1:41:14.080 --> 1:41:16.200 from Tanzania. I had no idea who he was. I 1:41:16.280 --> 1:41:17.680 was like, oh, well, I'd love to contribute to the 1:41:17.680 --> 1:41:20.200 book if you're looking traditional photos. And he's like, yeah, yeah. 1:41:20.200 --> 1:41:22.160 He gave me his card and walked away. And I 1:41:22.160 --> 1:41:23.679 look at the card and it says from the office 1:41:23.680 --> 1:41:26.040 of Simon Roosevelt and Alison Rockefeller. And I was like, 1:41:26.080 --> 1:41:28.800 holy shit. And I look over and Michelle is like, 1:41:28.840 --> 1:41:31.439 you have some luck, my friend. So anyways, I ended 1:41:31.479 --> 1:41:33.479 up going on a couple hunts with him, photographing, and 1:41:33.520 --> 1:41:36.479 this was way before we launched Modern Huntsman. So from 1:41:36.479 --> 1:41:39.760 the beginning he's been my main advisor and uh in 1:41:39.840 --> 1:41:43.759 terms of understanding the landscape and the history. And Simon, 1:41:44.280 --> 1:41:46.920 you know, is old enough that he's you know, been 1:41:47.040 --> 1:41:49.760 part of that, but he thinks much more progressively. And 1:41:49.800 --> 1:41:52.200 so when he saw what we were doing, he said, 1:41:52.240 --> 1:41:54.040 I really believe that this is something that could work. 1:41:54.439 --> 1:41:56.240 I would like to do whatever I can to help you. 1:41:56.920 --> 1:41:59.559 And so he's been very instrumental in helping me introduce 1:41:59.560 --> 1:42:02.080 introduced me to people, but then also give me feedback 1:42:02.160 --> 1:42:06.439 often which is very harsh about you know, what we're doing. 1:42:06.560 --> 1:42:09.680 And so um, yeah, he's been invaluable. And uh, you 1:42:09.720 --> 1:42:12.720 know he he wrote a pretty strong piece in this one. 1:42:12.760 --> 1:42:14.880 He goes for the throat. I mean, he he goes 1:42:15.000 --> 1:42:17.639 into the long range and the can hunting and all 1:42:17.680 --> 1:42:19.920 of that. I mean he does, he throws down. It's 1:42:19.960 --> 1:42:23.120 called defining modern hunting. So we'll look forward to that. 1:42:23.240 --> 1:42:26.479 And yeah, when you get in there, that's awesome. Man. Yeah, 1:42:26.600 --> 1:42:28.280 Like I said, you have guys like Max Low in here. 1:42:28.320 --> 1:42:30.880 I think that's a huge deal. Chris Burkhard and here 1:42:30.920 --> 1:42:36.360 explain who Chris is. Chris. Yeah, Chris is a pretty 1:42:36.400 --> 1:42:39.719 famous or prolific outdoor photographer. Does a lot of work 1:42:39.760 --> 1:42:42.880 for you know, surf surf brands and and ari I 1:42:43.000 --> 1:42:45.479 and and uh Patagonia and and I think he has 1:42:45.560 --> 1:42:49.880 three millions something Instagram followers, uh and uh. And Charles 1:42:49.880 --> 1:42:52.120 is a good friend of his and and so he's 1:42:52.120 --> 1:42:54.320 one of those guys. I believe he's a vegetarian and 1:42:54.360 --> 1:42:57.960 he definitely doesn't hunt, but he believes that, you know, 1:42:58.120 --> 1:43:01.360 preserving wild places and things are more important than whether 1:43:01.360 --> 1:43:04.000 you're holding a rod or a rock climbing rope. So 1:43:04.200 --> 1:43:06.800 he's can he's you know, agreed to be a contributor 1:43:06.800 --> 1:43:09.719 of the last two issues and um, you know, help 1:43:09.840 --> 1:43:11.760 us promote in a little bit of way, which which 1:43:11.800 --> 1:43:14.679 is amazing. Um. And so they had a story about 1:43:14.960 --> 1:43:17.040 their work in Iceland and it's a it's a really 1:43:17.040 --> 1:43:21.760 cool story about how Iceland was the number one geothermal 1:43:22.840 --> 1:43:26.120 or no, they were using hydro dams from these glacial 1:43:26.200 --> 1:43:29.280 rivers for aluminum production and then that massive and I 1:43:29.360 --> 1:43:32.400 cannot pronounce the name of the volcano the eruption and 1:43:32.520 --> 1:43:37.080 like what was that two thousand fourteen or whatever massive 1:43:37.200 --> 1:43:42.040 volcanic eruption that disrupted like of the world's air traffic, 1:43:43.080 --> 1:43:48.639 and that at that point they shifted. Um. There, that's 1:43:48.640 --> 1:43:50.600 when tourism started to become big and people wanted to 1:43:50.600 --> 1:43:54.040 come see these amazing places and that success. So now 1:43:54.080 --> 1:43:57.559 that's the number one resource in Iceland, is tourism. So 1:43:57.720 --> 1:44:00.400 that country realized, you know what, maybe we should destroy 1:44:00.439 --> 1:44:02.920 our glacial rivers by doing aluminum production that we should 1:44:03.320 --> 1:44:06.080 support it. And so they're about to put in place 1:44:06.840 --> 1:44:10.679 an ordinance that would make of the island at National 1:44:10.720 --> 1:44:13.439 Park and and so that's kind of what Chris is 1:44:13.479 --> 1:44:16.960 bringing attention to. And um, and then you know, we've 1:44:17.000 --> 1:44:21.800 got Gunar from Iceland who's a traditional Icelandic Arctic fox hunter. Yeah, 1:44:21.880 --> 1:44:26.200 let's let's this guy. I love this many many reasons 1:44:26.520 --> 1:44:29.080 because if you just posted the picture of this feller, 1:44:30.640 --> 1:44:33.320 he looks straight out of the show Vikings. Yeah, but 1:44:33.400 --> 1:44:37.840 also I think there's like there's hipsters that might also 1:44:38.000 --> 1:44:40.320 dress like this. So if you look at this, you're like, oh, 1:44:40.439 --> 1:44:42.840 look at this guy. What a loser. But then you 1:44:42.880 --> 1:44:44.920 started to read about it, like this could could this heat? 1:44:45.560 --> 1:44:48.559 This is a man he ang men. So he's a 1:44:49.520 --> 1:44:53.920 I can't remember, third or fourth generation Icelandic Arctic fox hunter. 1:44:54.080 --> 1:44:56.920 So his grandfather taught him how to hunt. And he's 1:44:56.920 --> 1:44:58.920 got this massive red beard and he wars. The knit 1:44:59.000 --> 1:45:01.439 sweaters and this heal for boots and this is this 1:45:01.520 --> 1:45:04.760 is real. This isn't like a fashion show. And he 1:45:05.760 --> 1:45:08.559 wrote this amazing story is my definitely my favorite one 1:45:08.560 --> 1:45:11.320 in the issue about the history of when the Vikings 1:45:11.320 --> 1:45:13.680 first landed in Iceland, they had to compete with the 1:45:13.720 --> 1:45:16.960 Arctic fox with the same food source, and so over time, 1:45:17.080 --> 1:45:18.120 you know, and a lot of it has to do 1:45:18.160 --> 1:45:20.960 with the eider eider birds right at which are endangered 1:45:21.439 --> 1:45:24.040 and or that they were praying on the livestock, which 1:45:24.080 --> 1:45:25.679 in Iceland like if you don't have your live stock 1:45:25.720 --> 1:45:28.640 in the winter, you're done for. And that has evolved 1:45:28.760 --> 1:45:32.640 over time to a government sponsored fox management program. So 1:45:32.720 --> 1:45:36.200 he is professionally hired by the Icelandic government. He gets 1:45:36.200 --> 1:45:40.120 paid per tale to protect these eider birds settlements. So 1:45:40.160 --> 1:45:43.479 he literally camps out and snipes these foxes to keep 1:45:43.520 --> 1:45:46.680 the balance of wildlife. And you know, it's something that's 1:45:46.720 --> 1:45:49.200 controversial because people love Arctic foxes, but if you go 1:45:49.240 --> 1:45:52.120 to Sweden and Norway, the Arctic fox is endangered because 1:45:52.120 --> 1:45:54.519 the red fox praise on those. So he goes over 1:45:54.520 --> 1:45:57.040 there and shoots red foxes. So he's got this like 1:45:57.520 --> 1:46:01.960 amazing relationship and and the the detail and the the 1:46:02.080 --> 1:46:04.600 depth of the relationship that he has with the landscape 1:46:04.640 --> 1:46:07.120 and the animals is unbelievable. And it's like you talk 1:46:07.160 --> 1:46:09.559 about a guy coming from the land and living a 1:46:09.600 --> 1:46:12.760 life of the land. It's not any better than this, 1:46:12.920 --> 1:46:15.479 and and and he's a he's intelligent, he's articulate, he's 1:46:15.479 --> 1:46:18.559 a talented photographer. His wife's a hunter. They're already teaching 1:46:18.600 --> 1:46:21.680 their daughter about the ways of their life. And this 1:46:21.720 --> 1:46:24.040 is one of those things where it's it's tied up 1:46:24.040 --> 1:46:28.120 in the cultural tradition exactly that you know, it's sometimes clear. 1:46:28.640 --> 1:46:31.439 And I enjoy those folks the most, you know, and 1:46:31.479 --> 1:46:33.280 I've run into them, had him some on this show 1:46:33.680 --> 1:46:38.920 that hunting is they just emote this cultural sensitivity to 1:46:39.920 --> 1:46:42.000 who they are, what they do hunting is that du 1:46:42.040 --> 1:46:46.080 Sean talks about that about his native country. Um, other 1:46:46.120 --> 1:46:49.479 folks like Wyman Men'ser and and Charles Rowdy and people 1:46:49.560 --> 1:46:51.400 have been on this show that that have They just 1:46:52.479 --> 1:46:54.840 it just comes out of them. They breathe it. It 1:46:55.000 --> 1:46:57.720 is them. And so because it is them, it's part 1:46:57.760 --> 1:47:00.080 of the culture that they came up in and that 1:47:00.320 --> 1:47:03.200 can be powerful. And I'm sure this can't wait to 1:47:03.200 --> 1:47:05.360 read it. I'm sure it's powerful as well. Yeah, he's 1:47:05.360 --> 1:47:07.640 an interesting guy. Should you should you should have him 1:47:07.680 --> 1:47:11.040 on sometime? Yeah, hook me up. Yeah, I'd love to 1:47:11.080 --> 1:47:15.080 talk about dude. Yeah, Well, thank you, Tyler, Um and 1:47:15.120 --> 1:47:17.640 go go look at Modern hunts and volume three. There 1:47:17.680 --> 1:47:20.280 are two other volumes that are I'm sure still available 1:47:20.600 --> 1:47:23.719 and um, Like I said, I appreciate, appreciate your honesty 1:47:23.760 --> 1:47:25.479 and your openness about what you do and what you 1:47:25.520 --> 1:47:29.920 feel about your mission with this book, I think it's admirable. Well, 1:47:29.960 --> 1:47:31.760 thanks Ben, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on here. 1:47:31.720 --> 1:47:38.240 All brother cheers. I guess I grew up on an 1:47:38.280 --> 1:47:44.960 all day. That's it. That's all episode number sixty eight 1:47:45.320 --> 1:47:49.280 in the books. It was a good one. It's always 1:47:49.520 --> 1:47:52.160 of this conversation We've had a lot on this podcast. Uh, 1:47:52.400 --> 1:47:54.840 it's really kind of the reason I started this podcast. 1:47:55.280 --> 1:47:58.599 How what's you know? What's our wife for hunting? How 1:47:58.600 --> 1:48:01.000 do we communicate that? Why? How do we talk about 1:48:01.000 --> 1:48:04.479 our motivations? How do we talk about the narrative to 1:48:04.600 --> 1:48:08.200 the to the broader public. It's it's something that will 1:48:08.200 --> 1:48:10.200 continue to talk about here. I try not to overdo it. 1:48:10.240 --> 1:48:12.479 In recent podcasts. We we have talked about a lot 1:48:12.479 --> 1:48:14.680 of varied subjects, which is always fun to return to 1:48:14.720 --> 1:48:16.720 this because it really is the thing that I think 1:48:16.720 --> 1:48:19.280 we could talk about forever. So thank you to Tyler Sharp. 1:48:20.120 --> 1:48:24.000 Go pick up Modern Huntsman. Volume three, Monor Huntsman dot 1:48:24.000 --> 1:48:28.759 Com and thank you to Anthon Kat my new boss. 1:48:28.960 --> 1:48:31.240 Hopefully he sticks around his family moves in Montana. You're 1:48:31.240 --> 1:48:34.240 gonna hear a lot from him in the coming weeks. 1:48:34.960 --> 1:48:38.760 What else do we got? What else? Oh? Um? Go 1:48:38.880 --> 1:48:41.439 to the Mediator store. You should do that all the time, 1:48:41.520 --> 1:48:44.559 every day that you can. There's a lot of stuff there. 1:48:45.000 --> 1:48:48.479 There is our I really want uh to highlight our 1:48:48.560 --> 1:48:51.200 new shirt relative and news has been out for about 1:48:51.200 --> 1:48:55.479 a month or so. Our Auto Leopold shirt. Uh, it's 1:48:55.520 --> 1:49:00.320 it says Aldo freaking Leopold on it, and it says 1:49:00.360 --> 1:49:01.880 that because he's a badass and he's one of the 1:49:01.880 --> 1:49:05.200 fathers of conservation. He's written some of the seminal works 1:49:05.240 --> 1:49:08.400 in our world. And you're gonna be walking around with 1:49:08.479 --> 1:49:12.360 the illustrated picture of Aldo on your shirt. People are 1:49:12.360 --> 1:49:14.640 gonna ask you who's that and you're gonna get to 1:49:14.640 --> 1:49:17.760 tell him. So you're gonna be a messenger for that 1:49:17.800 --> 1:49:20.360 man in his great works that have inspired all of us. 1:49:20.360 --> 1:49:22.679 So go to the Mediator dot com, click on the 1:49:22.720 --> 1:49:26.519 shop and then go find that t And there's some 1:49:26.560 --> 1:49:30.160 other stuff there. There's Hunting Collective, Vietti Tumbler. There is 1:49:30.680 --> 1:49:33.840 the pro Nuance Anti Bullshit t shirts. There are some 1:49:33.920 --> 1:49:37.360 other logoed hoodies and hats and things like that there 1:49:37.360 --> 1:49:39.240 that I think are pretty cool. I hope you go 1:49:39.800 --> 1:49:43.920 check out and pick up and what else. There's other 1:49:43.920 --> 1:49:45.559 stuff with this store. You're always gonna want to go 1:49:45.560 --> 1:49:48.320 there and check those things out. But I also want 1:49:48.360 --> 1:49:51.120 to address before we get out of here, um, the 1:49:51.160 --> 1:49:53.880 great feedback we got on last week's episode number sixty 1:49:53.880 --> 1:49:56.840 seven on the Lama Laryns. The Lama Laryerons are a 1:49:56.880 --> 1:50:01.360 subsistence hunting tribe on a small line in Indonesia. I've 1:50:01.520 --> 1:50:03.720 I've got dozens of emails here from people that really 1:50:03.720 --> 1:50:06.280 liked that episode and really like about Clark. A lot 1:50:06.320 --> 1:50:09.120 of you had questions about his experience. I've sent some 1:50:09.160 --> 1:50:11.000 of those over to Doug and hopefully he can get 1:50:11.040 --> 1:50:14.440 back to us and we'll cover that on future podcasts 1:50:14.640 --> 1:50:17.120 or I'll just email you guys back and with his answers. 1:50:17.160 --> 1:50:20.200 So thanks for listening to that episode. We're gonna leave 1:50:20.240 --> 1:50:24.000 you on this episode numb leave you with some listener 1:50:24.080 --> 1:50:28.880 feedback and then old number seven, So enjoy see you 1:50:28.880 --> 1:50:34.599 next time. Bye. Hey, this is Andrew just calling to 1:50:34.760 --> 1:50:38.080 give some of my feedback. Um, first off, I loved 1:50:38.160 --> 1:50:43.040 the interview with Charles Rodney. Um, such a cool guy, 1:50:43.120 --> 1:50:45.640 such a cool story. I love small game hunting. I 1:50:45.720 --> 1:50:49.439 loved seeing different types of people and um, how they 1:50:49.520 --> 1:50:51.400 hunt and what they do and what their heritage is. 1:50:51.439 --> 1:50:54.839 I mean, UM, it's just so cool to see something 1:50:55.760 --> 1:50:58.640 varying from the status quo and to see like an 1:50:58.640 --> 1:51:03.519 alternative version of of American history heritage hunting. So that 1:51:03.600 --> 1:51:05.360 was a real treat and I felt like I was 1:51:05.400 --> 1:51:07.479 there with you guys, and what a great interview, So 1:51:07.520 --> 1:51:10.920 thank you for doing that. Um. In in junction with 1:51:11.000 --> 1:51:15.400 that interview, you guys were talking about people of color 1:51:15.479 --> 1:51:17.800 in the hunting world and how there aren't a lot 1:51:17.840 --> 1:51:21.600 of them and how uh we want more and and 1:51:21.640 --> 1:51:23.680 you also sort of tiptoed around it while you're doing 1:51:23.720 --> 1:51:27.960 it because people had such adverse reactions to it, and UM, 1:51:28.000 --> 1:51:30.479 I think maybe we could investigate a little bit why 1:51:30.600 --> 1:51:33.240 why do people have such knee jerk reaction to the 1:51:33.280 --> 1:51:36.839 mere mention of people of color in the hunting and 1:51:37.040 --> 1:51:40.200 how there you know, I mean, anyone with two eyes 1:51:40.240 --> 1:51:42.840 can see what the hunting world is. Come on, it's 1:51:42.880 --> 1:51:46.519 white men, you know, and and why is that it hasn't? 1:51:46.600 --> 1:51:51.920 You know, white men didn't invent hunting? Um, so why 1:51:51.960 --> 1:51:54.400 don't people of color have access? Or why aren't they 1:51:54.439 --> 1:51:58.080 welcomed into spaces? Um? You know, why don't they have 1:51:58.240 --> 1:52:01.400 as rich of a heritage of hunting as you know, 1:52:01.479 --> 1:52:06.200 the average white man? Might? You know? Um? I think 1:52:06.200 --> 1:52:08.720 it's it's something to investigate, and I think just the 1:52:08.760 --> 1:52:11.960 emotions behind it are something to investigate. It would encourage 1:52:11.960 --> 1:52:19.280 people to ask themselves why doesn't make them mad? You know? Uh? Why? Why? Why? Why? 1:52:19.320 --> 1:52:24.439 I'm really truly baffled and shocked and honestly appalled. They say, 1:52:24.479 --> 1:52:26.800 don't read the comment section, and I honestly wish I 1:52:26.840 --> 1:52:29.559 wouldn't have had read it. But what's done is done, 1:52:29.600 --> 1:52:34.919 so I'd love to hear more about it. Thanks by 1:52:36.080 --> 1:52:39.479 hey man. This is Nate Schnick from Western Minnesota calling 1:52:39.520 --> 1:52:41.720 it yea. I just want to tell you how much 1:52:41.760 --> 1:52:46.679 I appreciate your podcasts, really appreciating all the turkey content 1:52:46.760 --> 1:52:49.759 that you put out this spring. I am an adult 1:52:49.920 --> 1:52:53.880 onset turkey hunter. I've been hunting a lot of other stuff, 1:52:53.960 --> 1:52:57.000 mostly white tailed years, since I was a kid. This 1:52:57.080 --> 1:53:00.479 is with my first spring, turkey hunting went out with 1:53:00.600 --> 1:53:04.040 the d n R program and n wtf kind of 1:53:04.120 --> 1:53:09.160 joint program. Uh got a bird within thirty minutes of 1:53:09.200 --> 1:53:11.880 getting out my first morning and was able to get 1:53:11.880 --> 1:53:15.680 a really nice time and I am hooked. Yeah, keep 1:53:15.720 --> 1:53:18.160 up the good work, keep it rolling. I wouldn't be 1:53:18.200 --> 1:53:21.320 a post and more turky talk during the summer. Thanks man, 1:53:21.960 --> 1:53:26.559 Thank you. Jack Daniels. Oh, I'm seven Tennessee. Who whiskey 1:53:26.640 --> 1:53:29.799 got me dragging in heaven and uh and just stopped. 1:53:29.840 --> 1:53:32.720 It looks good to me. They're gonna have to de 1:53:32.880 --> 1:53:40.439 bump into the far red. Oh, the far red. D 1:53:41.320 --> 1:53:47.880 farry d d he