Speaker 1: Hey, it's the Hunting Collective. Welcome, We're an episode number
Speaker 1: sixty eight is a good one today. I'm pretty excited
Speaker 1: about this one. We've got an interview segment of the show.
Speaker 1: We've got Tyler Sharp, the editor in chief of a magazine,
Speaker 1: a really well done and thoughtful magazine called Modern Huntsmen,
Speaker 1: and that we're got a lion attack story, some other
Speaker 1: crazy African stories from Tyler, and we're talking went pretty
Speaker 1: deep on redefining the narrative of hunting, which is one
Speaker 1: of the missions of Minor Huntsmen. But before we do that,
Speaker 1: we had our new editor in chief, Anthony Lakata, on
Speaker 1: to talk about exactly that do we need to redefine
Speaker 1: the hunting narrative? Who gets to do that? How do
Speaker 1: we communicate that. It's a little bit of a complicated topic,
Speaker 1: but it is a good thing to aspire to, but
Speaker 1: it's a complicated thing to communicate, so we're gonna cover that.
Speaker 1: We also started talking about not only hunting dick moves,
Speaker 1: but office dick moves, and our our engineer Phil gave
Speaker 1: a couple of really good ones, so you're never le's
Speaker 1: stick around for that. Um. But before we get to
Speaker 1: all of that. First Light has a really cool new
Speaker 1: film out called ursus Idaho. It's a spot in stock
Speaker 1: spring bear hunt. It's a really cool film. I just
Speaker 1: got done watching it. Its first lights. Paul Peterson, he
Speaker 1: drew one of the most covered in spring black bear
Speaker 1: tags in the lower forty eight and Paul is he's
Speaker 1: a former elk guide um and as a Wisconsin native.
Speaker 1: Is his first bear hunt and it's pretty damn entertaining.
Speaker 1: So go to first Light dot com and watch that
Speaker 1: film ursus Idaho with Paul Peterson. It's pretty cool. I
Speaker 1: like it. I think you will too. So without further ado,
Speaker 1: we're gonna get to episode number sixty eight. Let's go.
Speaker 1: I guess I grew up on in all the road
Speaker 1: bet do the medal though, did what I've told until
Speaker 1: I found out that my brand new clothes, the games
Speaker 1: that can have from the rich kids next door, and
Speaker 1: I grew up baths. I guess I grew up. I mean,
Speaker 1: there are a thousand things inside of my head I
Speaker 1: wish I ain't seen, and now I just wanted to
Speaker 1: a real bad dream of being a like I'm coming
Speaker 1: apart of the scenes, But thank you Jack Daniel seven Hey, everybody,
Speaker 1: welcome to the Hunting Collective. Of course, have been O'Brien,
Speaker 1: and you're gonna be hearing this podcast on July. Second.
Speaker 1: We're in July. Placata feels like it. Sonny, it's Montana.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Montana, by the way, thank you. You're moving
Speaker 1: here like the rest of us, meet eaters. I am.
Speaker 1: I'm moving here in about a month, so I can't wait. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you have some young children that are excited to explore
Speaker 1: all that Montana has to offer. Absolutely, took my kids
Speaker 1: out fish and this weekend they came for a visit
Speaker 1: check out the new hometown, and um, yeah, I just
Speaker 1: want to get here while there's still lots to do
Speaker 1: there very much until the smoke comes in August. Now
Speaker 1: we're not supposed to people tell me. I'm not supposed
Speaker 1: to talk so glowingly about Bozeman all the time. So
Speaker 1: it's also very cold in the winter. It's snowed two
Speaker 1: days before I got here earlier this week, so keep
Speaker 1: that in mind. Yeah, I got pulled over by a
Speaker 1: cop two months ago, so it's you know, there's some
Speaker 1: bad things in Bozeman as well, So I just try
Speaker 1: to try to make sure everybody understands. It can be
Speaker 1: a terrible place. It's awful. It's awful. Don't come, you know,
Speaker 1: like the ski resorts are crowded. Yellowstone, it's just buffalo
Speaker 1: everywhere in the road even sometimes how do you even
Speaker 1: drive through? You can't drop to these buffalo It's terrible. Hey, Phil,
Speaker 1: Phil's back. I'm back. How much hate mail did you get? No? No, haymail? Phil, Um,
Speaker 1: that's good. I was wondering if you got recognized anywhere
Speaker 1: your voice, you know. Oh yeah, I think I was
Speaker 1: just telling you beforehand. I was that was grocery shopping,
Speaker 1: and um, you know, I just I I asked the cashier.
Speaker 1: I told her I'd like some I like I'd like
Speaker 1: plastic bags. And she said, oh, hold on a minute,
Speaker 1: the hunting Collective. Yep, yep, of course she did. I said,
Speaker 1: you know it, you know it, lady, I'm Phil, It's
Speaker 1: Mr Taylor to you. Alright, perfect, Well, that means you
Speaker 1: can stay on the show. That's it for you for
Speaker 1: the day. Thanks for joining us. Um, we're gonna talk
Speaker 1: about I would call some heavy topics, as we always
Speaker 1: try to do here on the show. Um, but I'm
Speaker 1: trying to figure out I was trying to figure out
Speaker 1: a thing we would do. It's the off season. There's
Speaker 1: no hunting going on, so we can't tell hunting stories,
Speaker 1: so it leaves a lot of dead air. Absolutely, I
Speaker 1: can't tell fishing stories. They're boring. We just be like
Speaker 1: we were fishing and then we caught it fish that
Speaker 1: it's pretty much the whole story, So we can't tell
Speaker 1: fishing stories. I'm trying to figure out like a thing
Speaker 1: that I can do, like top bullets, top hunters of
Speaker 1: all time, to get everybody interested in debating about things,
Speaker 1: but I'm not. It's been a long week and I
Speaker 1: have no idea. I was gonna plan something. I don't
Speaker 1: have anything. Yeah, did you come up with in the
Speaker 1: four minutes since you asked me to think about it? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Uh no, Right, it's uh, this is a kind of
Speaker 1: thing that's real hard to rank, but it's fun, right,
Speaker 1: it's fun to think about that stuff. I mean, uh,
Speaker 1: that's part of the fun of arguing about it. I mean,
Speaker 1: I have my like top stuff. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: top things I love to do. Whether they're what you
Speaker 1: love to do, I don't really care. They're might top things.
Speaker 1: I think they're the best Oh, that's the top reasons
Speaker 1: why my things are better than you're right. Maybe top podcasts.
Speaker 1: I can think of five really good ones. They're all
Speaker 1: they're all on the Mediator Network. It's weird that they're
Speaker 1: all the best. It's fine. So anybody right into t
Speaker 1: ac it's meted dot com and help me out. I'm
Speaker 1: trying to them up with some real catchy things to
Speaker 1: ways to rank and debate about pretty inane topics over
Speaker 1: the summer when we're board, So please right in and
Speaker 1: give us some ideas. I was gonna have. I was
Speaker 1: gonna whip out some real cool thing, but I just
Speaker 1: I couldn't think of anything. So I apologize. When you
Speaker 1: are stump, that's the thing. Make your audience do the
Speaker 1: work for you. That's right, exactly what it's called being
Speaker 1: resourceful people. And this is a weekly show. Sometimes I
Speaker 1: get tired, Okay, So thank your t HD at the
Speaker 1: meter dot com. Please please, um, we're gonna get We're
Speaker 1: gonna start this conversation off. We have an interview. In
Speaker 1: the interview portion of the show, we have Tyler Sharp,
Speaker 1: who is the well dressed editor in chief of Modern Huntsman.
Speaker 1: Modern Huntsman is a glossy yah, wonderfully put together Hunting Magazine,
Speaker 1: which I believe is in its third volume, and that
Speaker 1: volume is on wildlife management. It should be out by now.
Speaker 1: You should be able to go pick it up. What
Speaker 1: makes it interesting is that it's stated mission is to
Speaker 1: redefine the hunting narrative. Now, boy, that's a that's a
Speaker 1: tall task. Why not set your sights high? I say,
Speaker 1: big ambition, big ambition. I once maybe thought that I
Speaker 1: could be the one. Since i've I've thought better of it.
Speaker 1: Try to be funnier, maybe the feels so we're gonna
Speaker 1: we're gonna get into that. But we had a gentleman
Speaker 1: right in, and always the people that right in have
Speaker 1: um hard to pronounce last names, so that's upsets me.
Speaker 1: But this fellow's name is Andy d Russo, sorry if
Speaker 1: I mispronounced that Andy, But he wrote in he said,
Speaker 1: you asked for some feedback, and here I am giving
Speaker 1: it to you. I hope you Ben will continue to
Speaker 1: interview people from the industry, even in different views from
Speaker 1: yourself and your style, Folks like Michael Waddell, Ted Nugent,
Speaker 1: Chuck Adams, Fred Eichler, so on and so forth. I've
Speaker 1: had fred Iichler on, So go back and listen to
Speaker 1: that one, But the other ones would be interesting. More
Speaker 1: of these story is and these amazing people that have
Speaker 1: different perspectives and different ways of looking at hunting in
Speaker 1: the industry would be interesting. And Andy's from Rogers, Arkansas. Um, yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I'm into that idea. Yeah, absolutely, that's what it's all about.
Speaker 1: I mean, different perspectives. That's one of the cool things
Speaker 1: about what we do. Um, the way I do it
Speaker 1: and was raised to do it and do it where
Speaker 1: I'm from is different from someone else's experience. That's right.
Speaker 1: And that's what That's why I name this thing the
Speaker 1: hunting collective, because I'm like, well, if we can if
Speaker 1: we can somehow learn the collective perspectives and understand different
Speaker 1: parts of our community, why people think the way they do,
Speaker 1: and why they act the way they do, and why
Speaker 1: they value what they value, then maybe we can be
Speaker 1: better at thinking about hunting and analyzing the way we
Speaker 1: do things. So thank you frightning, Andy. And that's a
Speaker 1: good bridge to the topic of of modern huntsmen and
Speaker 1: the stated purpose of redefining the hunting narrative. And at
Speaker 1: first we could just say Look, how do you feel
Speaker 1: like we need to redefine the hunting narrative. I'm not
Speaker 1: even sure what that means exactly. Um, you know, is
Speaker 1: there a hunting narrative that we all agree on? Um?
Speaker 1: You know, does that mean really what we do or
Speaker 1: or how we explain it to people? I'm not quite
Speaker 1: sure what that means. Yeah, And and Tyler explains it
Speaker 1: um from his perspective and explains it well. But I
Speaker 1: think that from his perspective, the narrative is the narrative
Speaker 1: that's being imposed on our community rather than the narrative
Speaker 1: that we've created. Right, So the narrative being imposed on
Speaker 1: our community has to do with trophy hunting, It has
Speaker 1: to do um with murdering animals, like the negative stereotypical
Speaker 1: things that are applied to hunting. That's what he's talking about.
Speaker 1: That's redefining that narrative, but also redefining what hunting means
Speaker 1: inside the community. It kind of shined the spotlight around
Speaker 1: and seeing what's there, right, saying, oh, what's over there?
Speaker 1: There's a guy doing something that I don't like personally,
Speaker 1: don't like and don't don't aspect. Is it my job
Speaker 1: to call that person out or is it my job
Speaker 1: to to do what I think is right and show
Speaker 1: by example. So we we run into I've run into this,
Speaker 1: I'm sure you have in your career kind of run
Speaker 1: into Steve's analogy, Ronella's analogy, which is shooting holes in
Speaker 1: the boat. If somebody's in you're in the boat with somebody,
Speaker 1: they're shooting holes in and you're certainly gonna make him
Speaker 1: walk the plank. And so you have that analogy with
Speaker 1: the other analogy is what makes you the judge and jury,
Speaker 1: what makes you the person to raise your hand up
Speaker 1: and say I'm right or I'm wrong, or this is
Speaker 1: right or this is wrong. How how do we do that? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a really good point. It's, Um, I think it's obvious, right.
Speaker 1: I think that's the shooting holes in the boat is
Speaker 1: a very clear, a very smart way to think about it, right.
Speaker 1: But it does get a little bit tricky when there's
Speaker 1: some things that there are people who are never gonna
Speaker 1: like the hunting narrative. No matter what we do, we
Speaker 1: could do it in a way that, um, you know,
Speaker 1: we think is the best possible narrative for us, people
Speaker 1: are still going to hate it. Um, that's not to
Speaker 1: say that we shouldn't you know, care about that narrative.
Speaker 1: We do. We all know that hunters are a very
Speaker 1: small minority in this country and we need the public to,
Speaker 1: if not support us, at least respect it and let
Speaker 1: us do our thing. Um, you know, so that that's yeah,
Speaker 1: it's embodied. We just had the super top secret content
Speaker 1: project that we did yesterday, and it's a body in
Speaker 1: the conversation around like where do we limit or how
Speaker 1: do we limit our communication? And who can tell? Who
Speaker 1: is the one to be able to say like don't
Speaker 1: do that? And can we You know, I'm not a
Speaker 1: big grip and grand guy anymore. I was at one time.
Speaker 1: I am not now. Um, And I've said my piece
Speaker 1: on why I think that's that needs to be the way.
Speaker 1: But I think that argument just kind of embodies this conversation. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right. It's it's a pretty tall order to to
Speaker 1: for for someone or a small group of people to say, hey, this,
Speaker 1: this is what the hunting narrative should be, this is
Speaker 1: what it should look like to the outside world. Um,
Speaker 1: as we said, as you said earlier, it's it's the
Speaker 1: hunting collective, right. We all come from different backgrounds and um,
Speaker 1: cheating holes in the boat should be pretty obvious. But
Speaker 1: there's some things that, hey, it might not be my thing,
Speaker 1: but um, if it's done in a way that um
Speaker 1: is respectful to the resource, um uh, it's good for
Speaker 1: the environment. You know, kind of embodies what hunting is
Speaker 1: all about, even if it's not my thing. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Do we need to worry about what
Speaker 1: someone else thinks about that? Yeah? Yeah, And and I
Speaker 1: think it's a generational you know, Tyler and I are
Speaker 1: about the same agement thirties, guys like it might just
Speaker 1: be a generational thing. We feel the pressure, as you know,
Speaker 1: as folks whose parents didn't have that same pressure, and
Speaker 1: my dad didn't have the pressure of social media and
Speaker 1: the pressure of like, how are people going to take
Speaker 1: in this image that I've shared or this he didn't
Speaker 1: Right there was the bagboard at the local gas station
Speaker 1: and the act of his truck when he checked the
Speaker 1: deer in and then I never saw it in the
Speaker 1: garage before they cut it up and ate it. So
Speaker 1: there just wasn't that pressure to continually think about how
Speaker 1: we speak about hunting or at what we do, and
Speaker 1: it can be a not I don't want to beat
Speaker 1: people over the head of these ideas. But man, when
Speaker 1: somebody like Tyler comes along and you'll hear in a
Speaker 1: minute he says some things that, um, even for my taste,
Speaker 1: was like, WHOA, alright, cool, I'm glad, Like that's pretty
Speaker 1: blunt that, you know, to make an analogy of Like
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes when you get older, you stay on
Speaker 1: the porch and let somebody else figure out how to
Speaker 1: go forward. Um, I mean, that's that's people. I know
Speaker 1: people will get prickly about that. When I when I
Speaker 1: heard him say it, I'm like, I know Tyler, know
Speaker 1: him to be a good dude, So I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: he you know, he's making his point. He's making it
Speaker 1: pretty firmly. Yeah, I mean, that's that's a pretty tough
Speaker 1: thing to to say to people. Uh, you know who
Speaker 1: have been there before, you have been doing this a
Speaker 1: long time, who have um in one way or another
Speaker 1: advanced hunting and been the backbone of it. To tell him, well,
Speaker 1: your time has passed the way you did it, you
Speaker 1: should just stay on the porch. Man. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't have I don't have the personal feelings I
Speaker 1: feel like I could tell anybody that. In the mission
Speaker 1: statement for for for Modern Huntcement, it says it's born
Speaker 1: out of frustration with the way hunting is often misrepresented today.
Speaker 1: This publication is told from the perspective hunting purists and
Speaker 1: the and the diplomatically minded, unaltered by the excuse of
Speaker 1: mainstream media, corporate interests, or misinformed emotional rants. I mean that, yeah,
Speaker 1: what's your reaction, Uh, big ambition, ambition, it's you know,
Speaker 1: look without knowing. Um, that kind of sets you up
Speaker 1: to like you better have good arguments for for everything
Speaker 1: you're saying, and what's right and what's wrong. I myself, like,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm pretty clear about what is good
Speaker 1: for hunting and what is and and doing things in
Speaker 1: an ethical, fair chase way and and always putting the
Speaker 1: resource first, you know. But when I think about things
Speaker 1: that how hunting is portrayed, um or if it looks
Speaker 1: bad to the outside. UM, I feel a little uncomfortable
Speaker 1: making that call for someone. I mean, if if somebody's
Speaker 1: doing it the right way and someone takes it the
Speaker 1: wrong way, I'm not sure that I want to tell
Speaker 1: them not to do it. You know, my kids preschool,
Speaker 1: they have this Uh yeah, I'm talking about my kids preschool,
Speaker 1: right right, where's he going? Now? This is that's where
Speaker 1: I get all my knowledge. Right. But they have this
Speaker 1: thing where they say, don't yuck someone else's yum. Right,
Speaker 1: some kid pulls out their lunch and some other kids like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's gross, and you know the kid's eating it and
Speaker 1: he likes it. And I feel like that's kind of
Speaker 1: a way I look at things. There's some things in
Speaker 1: and hunting that aren't my cup of tea. Now I
Speaker 1: don't like to do them, but they are good. You know,
Speaker 1: they don't do anything bad. They don't shoot any holes
Speaker 1: in the boat. And if it's something that gets people
Speaker 1: outside and that they enjoy doing, even if it's not
Speaker 1: my thing, I'm not gonna yuck their yum. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean you're gonna like that hashtag yuck my yum. I
Speaker 1: hope that's not. That's not hashtag yet. No, I like that,
Speaker 1: and I don't like I struggle with that all the time.
Speaker 1: Like as a person, I'm not I don't getting people's business.
Speaker 1: I don't want to getting somebody's business and tell them
Speaker 1: how to better do the thing that they're doing. I'd
Speaker 1: be like, trust that they've thought it through and either
Speaker 1: will or won't find a better way to communicate if
Speaker 1: that's the goal. I mean, I think it starts. It
Speaker 1: starts with yourself, right, and I think maybe that that's
Speaker 1: what they're trying to do with minor huntsmen, right, And
Speaker 1: that's great. And if you're going to be the example
Speaker 1: of how you think um hunting narrative should be to
Speaker 1: the outside world, great, but you do that by being
Speaker 1: an example and not necessarily by pushing other people back
Speaker 1: up onto the porch or whatever. You kind of lead
Speaker 1: the way. Yeah, right, Like I said, I mean, I don't,
Speaker 1: this isn't this is no way down and like you'll
Speaker 1: and you'll hear in the interview think the Mono Hunsban
Speaker 1: magazine is fans. Yeah, I do too. I think it's
Speaker 1: very good. It's so fantastic and well done, well written,
Speaker 1: well photographed, well designed. It is it is well done. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's really great and I have nothing wrong. I
Speaker 1: have no problem with that ambition right to do better.
Speaker 1: So we're always trying to do better, and we should
Speaker 1: as a community try to do better. It's just like
Speaker 1: how do you the question? And this could be seen
Speaker 1: as kind of frivolous. But the question is like, how
Speaker 1: do you express that feeling? Like, Dude, I see some
Speaker 1: ship I don't like. I see some things I'm not
Speaker 1: real into. I think they're shooting holes in the boat.
Speaker 1: What what is my role in fixing that? You know?
Speaker 1: And so I think we all just take on different
Speaker 1: versions of that. The way I try to take it
Speaker 1: on is, as I said, kind of lead by example.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it my way. Um, I'm gonna tell
Speaker 1: people this is why I do it, and this is
Speaker 1: how I do it. I'm going to try to try
Speaker 1: to change the narrative that way. And if that's how
Speaker 1: they're doing it, I think that's that's the right approach. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And my my thing for sure is, um, just starting
Speaker 1: the conversation. If I don't like something, I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: I'm gonna run right over to it. I'm gonna stand
Speaker 1: there and be like, who can I have a conversation
Speaker 1: with about this thing? And I'm gonna ask some tough questions.
Speaker 1: I'll probably um, my opinion will probably change over that time.
Speaker 1: But the best way that I can think of to
Speaker 1: both understand the perspective of somebody you don't agree with
Speaker 1: and think might be shooting holes in the boat, but
Speaker 1: also too, you know, to make sure that there are
Speaker 1: any holes in your boat is to go over there
Speaker 1: and be like, what are you doing with that gun?
Speaker 1: Why is it pointing towards the whole I'm going to
Speaker 1: shoot in the air? Um, just questioning like, what's the
Speaker 1: motivation here? Why is it good? And I and then
Speaker 1: I think the next episode of the podcast, for a
Speaker 1: future episode will have a vegan philosopher on. That's gonna
Speaker 1: be fun for everybody, hopefully. Um. And he asked me
Speaker 1: about trophy hunting, and I just said, look, it's complicated.
Speaker 1: He's like, what are you willing to say that all
Speaker 1: trophy hunting is bad? I'm like, boy, no, it's complicated
Speaker 1: like that. Am I Am I against all a holes? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Because because there he's just applying. All he was doing
Speaker 1: was applying the word trophy hunting to somebody that he
Speaker 1: didn't like. So if you say, Ben, are you against
Speaker 1: all campers that litter yep? Right, yeah, sure, but that
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with the overall like acceptance of
Speaker 1: camping or putting a tent up somewhere and sitting out
Speaker 1: in the first and the hot dog. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm if somebody just wants to cut the head off
Speaker 1: a deer and take it home, and I guess yeah.
Speaker 1: But the other point I made to him was why
Speaker 1: it's even more complicated because our system of game laws
Speaker 1: and are pretty much sets it up so that even
Speaker 1: if the guy is an asshole, he is still doing
Speaker 1: good for the resource. He can't help it. Even if
Speaker 1: he's an a hole, even if he's all he wants
Speaker 1: to do is shoot a deer, cut its head off,
Speaker 1: take it home and show it to his friends, throwing
Speaker 1: the garbage. He's paid into a system that are going
Speaker 1: to make sure more deer are around. So we also
Speaker 1: have that to fall back on, because we we we
Speaker 1: we can't just kick out everybody we think might be
Speaker 1: you know that guy. Absolutely, I mean trophy hunting. We
Speaker 1: shouldn't even get into that because it's so complicated, right,
Speaker 1: What does that mean? Because I like to kill big
Speaker 1: deer and have some some nice European mounts on the wall,
Speaker 1: that makes me a trophy hunter to this guy, probably,
Speaker 1: But he I also feed on my family on venison,
Speaker 1: and UM also feed um some good friend of mines
Speaker 1: of vegetarian who only eats the meat I kill, So
Speaker 1: I don't know that's technically vegetarian or not. But um,
Speaker 1: you know, venison diplomacy is as Ronella says, but um,
Speaker 1: you know to make that call is is pretty tough. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's how do you do that? What's it mean? This
Speaker 1: goes well into an article that ran on the meat
Speaker 1: eater dot com and this is way more insular, but
Speaker 1: it still has a lot to do with how do
Speaker 1: you call people out? It's called it is written by
Speaker 1: one Stephen Ronell is called the biggest dick moves a
Speaker 1: hunter can make. You should go read that over the
Speaker 1: meter dot com if you have a quick five minutes.
Speaker 1: It's a quick one. But he's got some examples here
Speaker 1: spots stealing. I mean that's pretty obvious spotting, spot exposing,
Speaker 1: which I do on this podcast all the time. That's
Speaker 1: why I take a little bit of We have a
Speaker 1: segment called hot spot, cool dude or gal, depending on
Speaker 1: who's on the podcast, where I asked people to expose
Speaker 1: their spots and it's selfish. Is that is that a
Speaker 1: dick move? Are you? Um? Bringing more people into the
Speaker 1: sport and more opportunity? Dude? That was deep. That's exactly
Speaker 1: what we're talking about. It's just how you look at
Speaker 1: I'm trying to be democratic, right, some people are mad
Speaker 1: at me because I'm giving their spots away, right, it
Speaker 1: will be selfish? Yeah? Am I gonna be selfish and
Speaker 1: keep this spot to myself? Or if I I know
Speaker 1: someone who's trying to get into hunting or needs to
Speaker 1: get out and has nowhere to go, and I tell
Speaker 1: him where to go? Um, you know, yeah, this is
Speaker 1: what the point of Pisces where I would like to
Speaker 1: bring Phil and Phil what do you think? Uh? You know,
Speaker 1: I I'm not much of a hunting you know philosopher.
Speaker 1: Okay something your job is to say something profound. Okay, great,
Speaker 1: you hired the right guy. Anybody could be a hunting philosopher. Yeah,
Speaker 1: look at me, I I mean you you just said
Speaker 1: what Anthony said with profound it does it bring more
Speaker 1: people in and give them more opportunities. From where I stand,
Speaker 1: which is very far away from this, I'd say that
Speaker 1: that's a good point of view. Thanks Phil. Thanks, I'll
Speaker 1: check back in with you a little bit later. Appreciate
Speaker 1: that we're gonna get Phil's getting I love you, Phil? Uh.
Speaker 1: Not cleaning game is one of Steve's dick moves. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah right, I'm want to change the title
Speaker 1: this to Steve's obvious dick moves. No one should ever
Speaker 1: even do sleeping in another one. Oh if that's like
Speaker 1: sleeping in, yes, I think he maybe is he arguing
Speaker 1: for sleeping in? No, except I will say, Um, I
Speaker 1: know Steve's talked about this. I've heard it. Um, I
Speaker 1: don't sleep in when I tricked hunt because I feel
Speaker 1: like I want to be there at you know, before
Speaker 1: dawn obviously when the you first hear the birds off
Speaker 1: the roof, off the roost. But um, there was sometimes
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago where I could not hunt
Speaker 1: first thing in the morning, so that some things that
Speaker 1: had going on, and I killed more turkeys when I
Speaker 1: started going at nine. As this is the truth. The
Speaker 1: truth about that is most turkeys are not getting killed
Speaker 1: off the roost like you. I've killed a few, but
Speaker 1: I've killed the ball of them at nine o'clock after
Speaker 1: they've gotten off the roost, got settled where they want
Speaker 1: to be, and then I can make a play or whatever.
Speaker 1: But yeah, hunt them off the roost is a get,
Speaker 1: it's a game. But but it is cool to see
Speaker 1: the tree and just like I'll just get up under
Speaker 1: the I know he's gonna fly over there and I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna kill him, but it's cool to hear him
Speaker 1: in the truthy goblin And you know you can't sleep
Speaker 1: in as a hunter. That's the only thing I can
Speaker 1: really get up for. To be honest with you, I
Speaker 1: have a heart. Yeah, I'm wanna like if you're like, hey,
Speaker 1: four am, oh, there's a soccer game on London, I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not gonna I'm gonna hit the snooze
Speaker 1: button kind of guy. Except when it comes to hunting fishing. Yes,
Speaker 1: I don't know. There's a couple other ones here. I
Speaker 1: I know I got one, which is just saying like
Speaker 1: I got this, I got this bird when you know
Speaker 1: you probably don't have it. Yeah. I mean sometimes you
Speaker 1: gotta throw a guy a bone when he's having a
Speaker 1: bad day. Yeah you got it, especially especially a duck
Speaker 1: hunting when when two or three birds fall and he's
Speaker 1: like I think I got one of those, Like yeah, bro, yeah,
Speaker 1: A little pat on the back for guys, guy who
Speaker 1: struggling a little bit, you did it for you See,
Speaker 1: that's a non dick move by us brand new boots.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and then complaining with no action, which we've
Speaker 1: kind of covered here, um a little bit. But those
Speaker 1: are all Dick moves. You have any other dick mops? Um? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's kind of a dick movie. Just bragg
Speaker 1: right when you're when you're bragging about what you did. Look, man,
Speaker 1: you have a great hunt. Whether that means you killed
Speaker 1: a big deer or really got back in there and
Speaker 1: got it done. That's good for you and you should
Speaker 1: be happy about it. But there's I don't know how
Speaker 1: to put it into words, but you know, you know
Speaker 1: what when you see it. When I was I was
Speaker 1: she hunting in the Northwest, terrices, I remember when I
Speaker 1: was in Nepal. Right, it was hard. See you brought
Speaker 1: it up. Yeah, I do that all the time. I
Speaker 1: can't help either. I can't help it. I'm so I'm
Speaker 1: so great. Yeah I think I am. I think after
Speaker 1: recording myself for a year and a half, I just
Speaker 1: realized that I'm a dick. But but yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: you're talking to a guy no matter what you say, like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, my dad and I we love to go
Speaker 1: feessant hunt yep, yep. By peasant hunt, Yep, I'm killing
Speaker 1: I killed my limit every time I go Hey, no,
Speaker 1: I listen. This is my biggest dick move that I
Speaker 1: that bugs me is when somebody, whether it's a kid
Speaker 1: or a grown man or woman, kills a buck and
Speaker 1: someone says to that person, boy, he would have and
Speaker 1: something else in another two years lost. Man. You know, listen,
Speaker 1: I respect the idea of you know, hunting mature animals
Speaker 1: and proper wildlife management, and but that's an evolution that
Speaker 1: I think. Um, a lot of hunters have to go
Speaker 1: through on their own. And even if you never go
Speaker 1: through it, that's all right. You know. My my father, Um,
Speaker 1: he gets out and not as much as he used to.
Speaker 1: And I mean he's gonna kill a small buck, and
Speaker 1: I'm somebody's gonna be like, oh boy, dad, that one
Speaker 1: would have been great next year. No, man, he's out there.
Speaker 1: He had a great time. Like when you say that
Speaker 1: to people, I just think you're you're taking a moment
Speaker 1: that was meaningful to them and you're kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: crapping on it. Being a dick. That's what you're doing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a good one. Let's see what I can think
Speaker 1: of one. Um, that's what. That's a really good one though,
Speaker 1: that may be the biggest. And then there's another one
Speaker 1: where like a guy might be watching a TV show
Speaker 1: and a and a child might kill a giant animal,
Speaker 1: and the first thing is like whatever, only because they're rich,
Speaker 1: because dad has money. They don't deserve that. What do
Speaker 1: you mean, right you? Weren't there a right that person?
Speaker 1: You know, if my dad was rich and he took
Speaker 1: me run around the world to kill stuff, I would
Speaker 1: have loved it. Bring the criticism on all day. That's
Speaker 1: just jealousy, pure and simple. It's like just pure jel
Speaker 1: I can't whoa that that little kid didn't earn that kud? Well,
Speaker 1: what little kid earns a coup? No, But they're they're
Speaker 1: lucky to have a dad that would take him to
Speaker 1: do that. If you think, dude, if I could do
Speaker 1: that with my kid, I mean, I took my kid
Speaker 1: to Alaska two years ago fishing. That's awesome. I mean,
Speaker 1: how dare how dare I? You just gave your spot
Speaker 1: away but unbelievable. Don't go to Laska. Don't there's bugs?
Speaker 1: I feel you have any uh any dick moves and
Speaker 1: just you can go since you're not a hunter. Just
Speaker 1: in general, like things people do around the office. Maybe
Speaker 1: maybe office that's a good Maybe that's a good office
Speaker 1: dick moves. Let's get that on. Yeah, well someone just
Speaker 1: left a bunch of Pickle Barrel sandwiches and the fridge.
Speaker 1: Pickle Barrel is a local sandwich shop. Yeah, very tasty,
Speaker 1: notoriously smelly, very the onions are heavy, and they just
Speaker 1: left him in the fridge uncovered, and then the fridge
Speaker 1: smelled like like like onions, very very you know. But
Speaker 1: that was a light one light dick move. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: got I have to fess up. One of those sandwiches.
Speaker 1: Was they also they're big sandwiches, They're big, I can
Speaker 1: only have they are smelly. I was like, did you
Speaker 1: put them in uncovered? No? I did even something even worse.
Speaker 1: I left my half eating sandwich on the conference table
Speaker 1: and left and someone else put it in the fridge.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's a pretty dick move. Yeah, well I
Speaker 1: had another meeting. I'm sorry, listen, I said it was
Speaker 1: a light dick move, you know, Yeah that was me. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'll take ownership for that. Let's keep going. Let's Anthony's dumb.
Speaker 1: I will say I did one. Yesterday. We were filming
Speaker 1: the thing, and you know, they have the lights on you,
Speaker 1: and it's all they want you to look good, and
Speaker 1: then they can if we ate lunch, and then we're
Speaker 1: continued filming. They gave us floss to make sure we
Speaker 1: don't have anything in our teeth for the filming. And
Speaker 1: I did the floss and then I set it down
Speaker 1: on the table and I walked away. Did you clip
Speaker 1: your toe nails too, that's nasty? Yeah, yeah, so and
Speaker 1: then Ronella goes, did you just leave your floss on
Speaker 1: the table as a noe? And I put in my
Speaker 1: pocket and I walked away. Nope, won't me slowly shuffled
Speaker 1: away in shame? Any other office? You guys, you both
Speaker 1: are relatively new to the office, relatively new. Well, this
Speaker 1: guy keeps having me on his podcast and tries to
Speaker 1: get me to sound smart, and it's impossible you're gonna
Speaker 1: be a hunting philosopher. By the time, I was thinking
Speaker 1: that that was an obvious when you get this guy
Speaker 1: keeps putting on this podcast and try it puts me
Speaker 1: in tough spots. It's really rough. Yeah, what other office?
Speaker 1: I like this topic? We're gonna probably cut out Tyler's
Speaker 1: and sorry, Tyler, We're gonna put you in a different
Speaker 1: We're gonna do another hour and a half just on office.
Speaker 1: What's the other you know, other office moves. People's dogs
Speaker 1: sometimes are just not We have a dog friendly office,
Speaker 1: and there's some people who know you know who you are.
Speaker 1: You're thinking, is he talking about me? I'm probably talking
Speaker 1: about you. Your dog is annoying. Are you talking about
Speaker 1: the meeting we had earlier day where some of us,
Speaker 1: right in the middle of a really important point, the
Speaker 1: dog comes into the table biting her wrists. Don't She's
Speaker 1: trying to carry on with her point. And I don't
Speaker 1: want to tell you guys, but during the whole meeting,
Speaker 1: that same dog was licking my toes and I was
Speaker 1: like what. I was like, No, I'm kind of I'm
Speaker 1: not I'm not hating it. I'm into it a little bit.
Speaker 1: Uh So, Yeah, there's that. That's one. The dog thing.
Speaker 1: The food thing is tough because we cook a lot
Speaker 1: of weird stuff. We cook crow with cook Mountain Lion,
Speaker 1: cooking bear today, and so it's a tough one. The
Speaker 1: smell because our desk Anthony are like right right in
Speaker 1: the danger zone for the if a guy was to
Speaker 1: burn earned the meat. You know. Well, I used to
Speaker 1: work in New York City and one of my favorite
Speaker 1: cheap lunches was to eat meat you know called street meat, right,
Speaker 1: big plate of like um Middle Eastern food with the
Speaker 1: rice and onions. It was delicious. But man, everybody else like,
Speaker 1: hey got some street meat today, did you? It's coming
Speaker 1: out of your pores. It's going out of your pores. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, Phil, give us one more office dick move. Well,
Speaker 1: I was just thinking about the street meat because I can.
Speaker 1: I can relate to that I got. I've only been
Speaker 1: to New York twice, but one time my one of
Speaker 1: my friends like, we're going to Halal guys at two
Speaker 1: am or whatever I was he ordered for me because
Speaker 1: I had no idea, and yeah, I couldn't get it
Speaker 1: out of my skin for about a week. It was.
Speaker 1: It's it's like, oh, yeah, I'm not sure this is
Speaker 1: an office dick move, but you brought it up by
Speaker 1: talking about the dog. Look at your feet. This is
Speaker 1: a flip flop friendly office man everybody has and like
Speaker 1: slipping them off and some bare feet. Yeah I did
Speaker 1: say I did put my feet have we have a megadesk,
Speaker 1: you and I and I did take my flops off
Speaker 1: and put my feet on my desk. Was that today? Maybe? Yes,
Speaker 1: I didn't see that, thank you. Oh you weren't there there.
Speaker 1: But I mean I was actually chided by my co
Speaker 1: workers for not wearing flip flops soon enough. Well, dude,
Speaker 1: I came two days ago and I'm wearing my blunt
Speaker 1: stone boots that I wear all the time. I saw
Speaker 1: more than one person look at my feet in judgment,
Speaker 1: being like, dudes not wearing flip flops. It's like six
Speaker 1: degrees that he should have flipp People in mind are
Speaker 1: so excited when the sun comes out, they're just like shirtless.
Speaker 1: I was like, it's forty eight degrees, calm down. Why
Speaker 1: don't wearing shorts? Bro? Like, I don't know, Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: that's not what we do. So yeah, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of judgments. Um, we've gone off the rails we have,
Speaker 1: which I really like. But I'm trying to change the
Speaker 1: narrow if the mediator office is really what I'm change refine,
Speaker 1: So you're trying to redefine the mediator office narrative? What's
Speaker 1: the current nator flips and dogs flip flops and dogs,
Speaker 1: which there's only a few. If there's only a few
Speaker 1: ways that I could tell the story about the dog
Speaker 1: licking my toes in the office because there's not a
Speaker 1: lot of people here. Maybe you're listening to this in
Speaker 1: your office. Have you ever had a dog with your
Speaker 1: toes during a meeting when you're giving like some real
Speaker 1: impoor monologue about content and then there's like a dog
Speaker 1: just down there. It's going to town. And then I'm
Speaker 1: thinking it's distracting me because I'm thinking, why is he
Speaker 1: licking my toes? What is all my toes that I
Speaker 1: took a shower? What's all my toes that shouldn't be there? Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're shoes. Yeah. So I'm gonna leave you guys with
Speaker 1: that that thought. What was all my toes? Right in
Speaker 1: and let us what you think top five things that
Speaker 1: you think might have been all my toes? We're really
Speaker 1: going way off track. Um, all right, Well, if we're
Speaker 1: gonna get to the interview person of the show, all right,
Speaker 1: that is one of the best segments we've ever done. Uh,
Speaker 1: we're gonna get to Tyler Sharp and we're gonna go
Speaker 1: he lives down in Livingston, Montana and I went over
Speaker 1: to his house. We had a really good conversation about
Speaker 1: what he does, um, what he wants to do, and
Speaker 1: his goals within the industry, and then some of his
Speaker 1: pretty cool stories from his time traveling with like some
Speaker 1: Jim Shocky and others filming and experiencing a lot of
Speaker 1: things and in a couple of a lion attacks story. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's cool. Where we got that going? So we're
Speaker 1: gonna transport ourselves in time to live me some Montana.
Speaker 1: We're talking to Tyler Sharp, the editor in chief of
Speaker 1: Modern Huntsman enjoy I guess Tyler Sharp, what's up man
Speaker 1: now much? Just enjoying a Topo Chico over? Hey, maybe
Speaker 1: they would have sponsored the podcast? You think I would
Speaker 1: hope so, because it needs a larger presence in Montana.
Speaker 1: I think Topa Chico Now just came from Texas. I
Speaker 1: lived there for some time and it did enjoy it.
Speaker 1: And you are a dual resident of Texas and Montana,
Speaker 1: which I feel is that's a pretty good combination. It
Speaker 1: is to have those two things, trying to maintain that,
Speaker 1: trying to be a fair weather resident in both places.
Speaker 1: So lay that out. Do you go down there during
Speaker 1: the wintertime and come up here during the summertime, because
Speaker 1: if you do, screw you, because that's awesome. I was
Speaker 1: here this winter, which was, you know, pretty cold, especially
Speaker 1: out here. Um. But the idea, yeah, it would be
Speaker 1: summer here, fall here, and then maybe like you know,
Speaker 1: December through February or March in Texas, come back for
Speaker 1: spring here. Um. Finding that balance. But that's a fine
Speaker 1: that's a fine balance. I often tell people that if
Speaker 1: I could take the best of those two worlds, I
Speaker 1: would take it every day. And I used to. This
Speaker 1: winter in Montana wasn't so bad. Probably out here. You're
Speaker 1: out here in the in the middle of nowhere on
Speaker 1: a beautiful ranch. I'm sure it was a little tougher
Speaker 1: out here than it was. It wasn't bad until February,
Speaker 1: and then there was a period of three weeks where
Speaker 1: it was fifteen below and we got three ft of snow,
Speaker 1: and so that that started to grind on me a
Speaker 1: little bit. But yeah, I mean, I went snowboarding and
Speaker 1: try to snowshoe and hike. But when you go outside
Speaker 1: and you're breath immediately freezes, You're like, yeah, that's not
Speaker 1: going to go for a run today, and you're where
Speaker 1: are you born? Tell people you're kind of your where
Speaker 1: you're born? How you got to wear sung? I'm so
Speaker 1: little known secret and I hesitate to even tell the
Speaker 1: public at largness. I was actually born in Kansas City, Missouri, UM.
Speaker 1: When I was two, we moved to Austin. So grew
Speaker 1: up in Austin, and then we moved to Grapevine, which
Speaker 1: is in between Dallas and Fort Worth. Went to school there, uh.
Speaker 1: And then I went to college at USC in Los Angeles,
Speaker 1: studied film and photography as well as psychology and Italian randomly.
Speaker 1: And then my first job was in Tanzania. So I'm
Speaker 1: moved to Africa and worked for a safari company and
Speaker 1: filmed and photographed hunts for six months. Uh. And that's
Speaker 1: kind of what put me on the trajectory of the
Speaker 1: hunting industry. So you explain that time in your life.
Speaker 1: I mean you you you talk about a lot of
Speaker 1: varied places, Missouri, Austin, USC and then over to Africa.
Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit more about Africa
Speaker 1: in this conversation, but describe that time where you first
Speaker 1: got to see that place and understand what it was
Speaker 1: it was, you know, everybody has their own vision. They've
Speaker 1: heard stories, they've read books, they've watched movies, and then
Speaker 1: you get there and it's kind of your own experience.
Speaker 1: And I remember getting there and and you know, it
Speaker 1: was way out in the bush, so we took a
Speaker 1: bush plane two hours out in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 1: And I get there. It's dark, and I meet some
Speaker 1: people in the camp and they kind of take me
Speaker 1: on this tour and they showed me the nice tents
Speaker 1: and and I'm like, oh cool. You know, I kind
Speaker 1: of put my back and they're like, oh no, no no, no,
Speaker 1: that's not your tent, that's the client tent. And they
Speaker 1: take me to the back at the camp, which is
Speaker 1: in the pitch black. I don't even know what the
Speaker 1: area looks like. And this is um in Tanzania. It's
Speaker 1: it's called the Ruaha. It was the Usangu gamers Or,
Speaker 1: which is adjacent to the Ruajan National Park and um
Speaker 1: amazing area. And so I get out in this tent,
Speaker 1: They're like, okay, good night, and you know, I can
Speaker 1: hear hyenas immediately, and then I hear lions and I'm like,
Speaker 1: all right, well, maybe I'll just brush my teeth and
Speaker 1: go to bed. I literally step outside and I hear
Speaker 1: a lion roar. I'm like, you know what, I'm good.
Speaker 1: I don't need to brush my teeth. So that first
Speaker 1: night was a little unnerving because I have never been there.
Speaker 1: I have no idea if a tent is safe. How
Speaker 1: close are those lions and hyenas? Um. But then I
Speaker 1: woke up and kind of saw the lay of the land.
Speaker 1: And um, I always say, I feel like I went
Speaker 1: there a boy and came back a man, because I literally,
Speaker 1: you know, no, this was before iPhones. There was no
Speaker 1: cell phones, there was no internet. There was a CB
Speaker 1: radio and a satellite phone that was it. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, we hunted for her own food. They had
Speaker 1: a shown by and Swahili which means farm, so they
Speaker 1: grew all their vegetables and we were eating everything that
Speaker 1: we grew and killed. And um, you know, I learned
Speaker 1: Swahili became like a family with all these people, learned
Speaker 1: how to track, could tell within ten minutes what time
Speaker 1: of day it was by looking at the sun. Um,
Speaker 1: and just uh it experienced this lifestyle that I didn't
Speaker 1: even know it was real, right, and then it changed
Speaker 1: me completely. How could that not changeing. Yeah, and uh,
Speaker 1: I mean you want to talk about close encounters. I
Speaker 1: got charged by leopards. I had a lion come into
Speaker 1: my tent in the middle of the night and staring
Speaker 1: me down five yards away in a full don't don't
Speaker 1: pass that over. Tell both. Uh So the lions story,
Speaker 1: this is something I actually wrote about in in voyme
Speaker 1: one of modern Huntsmen. And um. So, it's an area
Speaker 1: called the Killing Barrow. Uh. It's a floodplain in central Tanzania.
Speaker 1: And um, we were there hunting buffalo by river. You're
Speaker 1: in a boat with a triple decker, you know, observation tower,
Speaker 1: and a massia sits on the top and if he
Speaker 1: sees buffalo, he pulls the string and it rings the
Speaker 1: bell and the driver runs the boat. So you can't
Speaker 1: see anything. It's fourteen foot grass. Um. But lions are
Speaker 1: very present in this area and they're hunting these buffalo
Speaker 1: or whatever. Um. And the tent in our tent, the
Speaker 1: zipper was broken on the mesh. And um it's so
Speaker 1: hot there that you can't sleep with the campus closed,
Speaker 1: so we were sleeping with the tent wide open. Of course,
Speaker 1: my bed is by the door. And um, Georgie Ferreira,
Speaker 1: who's this you know, half Greek, half Brazilian, Swahili speaking
Speaker 1: professional hunter. He's like man of the world. And he
Speaker 1: was like, oh, don't don't be a wors you know,
Speaker 1: it's fine lion. But so he's got the fourth four
Speaker 1: seventy double under his bed. He's asleep right feeling feeling
Speaker 1: real good about that. And this is the last time
Speaker 1: I ever took um malaria medication. So um I And
Speaker 1: there's two different ones. There's malarone, which she is a ah,
Speaker 1: it's a daily pill, and then there's Larry UM, which
Speaker 1: is the weekly pill. So I that I had this
Speaker 1: weekly pill which gives you murderous nightmare sometimes. So I
Speaker 1: woke up in this panic like and my heart was racing,
Speaker 1: I was sweating, I was panicking and realized it was
Speaker 1: just this well, you know, Larry medicine UM. And then
Speaker 1: about thirty seconds later, I hear which is a male
Speaker 1: lion right behind the tent. So I think, all right,
Speaker 1: do I have time to jump up, run out untie
Speaker 1: the flaps, close, the doors, zip it, jump back in.
Speaker 1: By the time I even flinched to do that, he
Speaker 1: called right next to my head outside the window just
Speaker 1: so I'm like, all right, well, here we go. And
Speaker 1: um sat there and he walked out about to where
Speaker 1: that chair is, so less than five yards away, and
Speaker 1: six hundred pound male massive had this big mohawk may
Speaker 1: and it's a full moon, so it's super bright, and uh.
Speaker 1: I reached down to grab the bed frame because if
Speaker 1: he came, I was going to try to flip the
Speaker 1: bed on top of myself. Classic that that creaks like.
Speaker 1: And the lion just turns around and just stares me
Speaker 1: right in the eyes. And I'll never forget. It was soaked.
Speaker 1: I mean I just got goosebumps thinking about it. It
Speaker 1: was deathly quiet, and I could hear the sand as
Speaker 1: he dug his paws in and started to crouch, and
Speaker 1: his tail started to do this, oh boy. And so
Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, well, goodbye world. Uh. And it
Speaker 1: felt like ten minutes, but it was probably only about
Speaker 1: fifteen seconds. And then he turned around, walked over to
Speaker 1: the river, rubbed his face on the fence, jumped in
Speaker 1: the river, swam off, and I was like, Georgie, wake up.
Speaker 1: That damn lion was here, and you know, it gets
Speaker 1: up in his underwear. He's acting all tough like and
Speaker 1: the tracks were huge and so um he laughed. You know,
Speaker 1: we didn't see him. Next full moon, next exact month,
Speaker 1: same tent, same camp, Same lion comes back, but this
Speaker 1: time the door is closed and he literally lays on
Speaker 1: the porch and SAgs the tent wall in and he's
Speaker 1: like like breathing. I can like see the canvas moving
Speaker 1: back and forth because he's breathing. And so at that
Speaker 1: point I kind of decided that that lion was my
Speaker 1: spirit animal because he just kept coming back and I
Speaker 1: had actually I forgot to mention this detail before he
Speaker 1: showed up the first time. As a joke, we shaved
Speaker 1: a mohawk into my head because my hair it was
Speaker 1: just too damn high. I was like, let's shave my head,
Speaker 1: and Georgie's like, lot's to a mohawk. First next day,
Speaker 1: the mohawk lion shows up on the porch. Uh. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: that that was a close call. Um, the story of
Speaker 1: the mohawk lin. Yeah, and uh and that's in in
Speaker 1: Modern Hunts volume one. That was in volume one. Um,
Speaker 1: you know there's a couple other a couple, I mean,
Speaker 1: plenty of lion encounters, plenty of elephant encounters the leopard.
Speaker 1: One was pretty funny. We were in Zambia and we were, uh,
Speaker 1: we were hunting the kudo and sable and we, um,
Speaker 1: it's noon. We're driving in this land cruiser, no windshield,
Speaker 1: no roof, no doors, totally open air, and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, Lance Lance the pH slams on the brakes
Speaker 1: and he's like, let chewy, you know, and we all
Speaker 1: see it and it's trying to dig a word hog
Speaker 1: out of its hole. It's pretty rare to see a
Speaker 1: lepar in the middle of the day like that, and
Speaker 1: so we're like, oh cool, and we're like thirty yards away.
Speaker 1: So Lance is like, all right, I'm gonna try to
Speaker 1: get closer and so you can get a good picture.
Speaker 1: So he turned sideways and the leopard kind of sneaks
Speaker 1: away behind this log and it was just watching us
Speaker 1: from behind the log with his paws up. And uh.
Speaker 1: I got some video footage of it, but it was
Speaker 1: kind of boring. It was too far away for it
Speaker 1: to be good footage. And um, so I was like,
Speaker 1: I'll take a couple pictures then we can go. So
Speaker 1: I take two pictures and as I clicked the shutter
Speaker 1: on the third one. He just comes right for me,
Speaker 1: and that thing covered twenty yards in two seconds, and
Speaker 1: he got about this far away and veered off. So
Speaker 1: it was a mock charge. And I had a big,
Speaker 1: you know, seventy two lens. I was just going to
Speaker 1: try to hit him in the head with it. They
Speaker 1: they're gonna get you, It's just a matter of how bad.
Speaker 1: So I I like put my arm around my neck
Speaker 1: so they can't get your neck. And I was just
Speaker 1: gonna try to bash him with the lens. But it
Speaker 1: was a mock charge. So he ran off and I
Speaker 1: looked down at Lance and he's sitting there. He didn't
Speaker 1: reach for the keys, didn't reach for the gun, laughing,
Speaker 1: and he just turns to me and he goes, did
Speaker 1: you ship your pants? Mate? Like I'm sitting I'm sitting here,
Speaker 1: you dude, you tell me? Yeah? Yeah, So there's you know, um,
Speaker 1: I think I I lived there. I lived in Tanzania
Speaker 1: for almost three years, you know, And what really got
Speaker 1: you there? I mean, you know, we kind of gave
Speaker 1: people the lily pond like sure, but what how did
Speaker 1: you get to find yourself there? Yeah? So, um, really
Speaker 1: I don't know how to describe it other than just destiny.
Speaker 1: And that might sound contrived, but I was at USC
Speaker 1: and um it was probably three months before I was
Speaker 1: about to graduate, and um my dad at the time
Speaker 1: owned a store in Dallas that did screen printing, an
Speaker 1: embroidery and all that, and it was next door to
Speaker 1: a home video edit. It was called You Edit Video.
Speaker 1: And we were friends with the manager because I used
Speaker 1: to run my dad's store. And the owner of the
Speaker 1: Safari company came in there and uh, I had a
Speaker 1: bunch of really crappy footage and he's like, I want
Speaker 1: to make DVDs from my clients and they were like, well,
Speaker 1: this footage sucks. You should hire somebody who knows what
Speaker 1: they're doing and get like HD cameras and the guy goes, okay,
Speaker 1: well let's do that. And my dad happened to be
Speaker 1: privy to this conversation and just said, hey, well, my
Speaker 1: son's about to graduate from USC, you should hire him.
Speaker 1: And they said okay. So I literally got a call
Speaker 1: from my dad and he's like, hey, t I, uh
Speaker 1: I sent you that mail, and you know, we looked
Speaker 1: at flights and I think I got you a job
Speaker 1: in tanzan you when you graduate, and and so literally
Speaker 1: that's how it happened. So I literally when I graduated,
Speaker 1: I sold a bunch of my stuff, said by to
Speaker 1: my friends in l A, and moved back to Texas.
Speaker 1: You know, did the whole like Cabella z R. I
Speaker 1: run got all my Safari gear, most of which is
Speaker 1: totally unnecessary, and went and then had this amazing experience.
Speaker 1: But when I was there, I learned about Dallas Safari
Speaker 1: c And so when I came back and side note,
Speaker 1: the company I worked for at the time, which I
Speaker 1: will not name, totally screwed me over. Didn't pay me.
Speaker 1: My visa expired. Um, they never got my work permit.
Speaker 1: The owner fled the country. So so I'm in the
Speaker 1: bush in November, right, and I'm like, how am I?
Speaker 1: I don't even have a plane taket home. I have
Speaker 1: like a hundred dollars to my name, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: how in the US, it's kind of a big deal
Speaker 1: if your visa expires. And I was like, how am I?
Speaker 1: You know, I asked one of the guys that the
Speaker 1: at the office, like what am I? What am I
Speaker 1: supposed to do? He's like, oh, i'm ana, you just
Speaker 1: put the money in the passport. I like, you want
Speaker 1: me to grease the customs officer. He's like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm anasta banat visa and I'm so literally to leave
Speaker 1: the country. I put a hundred dollar bill over my
Speaker 1: expired visa, hand it to the guy, opens it up,
Speaker 1: take some money, outstands my passport, hands it back and
Speaker 1: I went straight to the bar and get a double
Speaker 1: whiskey and made it back. And that's when I learned
Speaker 1: about Dallas Fry Club. So I went. So this would
Speaker 1: have been January of two thousand seven was the first
Speaker 1: time I went to the show and throw together a
Speaker 1: photo book, UH, throw together a little DVD and just
Speaker 1: started going around all the outfitters being like, please take
Speaker 1: me back to Africa. I don't want to live in
Speaker 1: the world. And UH ended up meeting a guy named
Speaker 1: Michelle Montiakas who's a a third generation Tanzanian um. He
Speaker 1: introduced me to the Knowlton family, which Corey Knowlton, and
Speaker 1: so I worked for the Knowlton family for almost three
Speaker 1: years and basically I would follow their UH employees and
Speaker 1: clients around. Corey was a booking agent. Larry would send
Speaker 1: a lot of his oil company employees and for those
Speaker 1: who don't know. Corey was a long time on the
Speaker 1: Professionals of Gym Shocky and they have the Hunting Consortium. Um. So,
Speaker 1: so I've traveled around. I went to almost thirty countries
Speaker 1: in three years, all over the world. I mean, Pakistan, Russia, Nepal,
Speaker 1: fourteen countries in Africa and and and so I was
Speaker 1: actually the original producer on the So like me, Corey
Speaker 1: and I kind of came up with that concept together.
Speaker 1: And because the Outdoor Channel was telling Jim that they
Speaker 1: wanted him to do a second show, so we kind
Speaker 1: of came up with this idea. And I was like,
Speaker 1: this was right when DSLRs first came out. I was like,
Speaker 1: we need to get a steady caam, we need to
Speaker 1: get a DSLR and so um. So yeah. I was
Speaker 1: one of the four original cameramen on The Professionals. And
Speaker 1: so if you remember that show, there's the Ibex jumping,
Speaker 1: there's the water buffalo falling, that the bearer running, that's
Speaker 1: all my footage. Yeah, And it's funny because I saw it.
Speaker 1: Yet he did a montage and I saw the Ibex
Speaker 1: show thing, I was like, that's my clip, um and
Speaker 1: so um yeah, so I did that for a little
Speaker 1: while and just got just got burned out. Um, I
Speaker 1: was traveling. I was gone probably nine ten eleven months
Speaker 1: out of the year. Couldn't have a relationship, never saw
Speaker 1: my family. Um, and being a hunting cameraman's hard, it's rough,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't pay well. Um. I mean I would
Speaker 1: never trade that because of the riants I got and
Speaker 1: the places I went in the relationships I formed with
Speaker 1: outfitters all over the world. Um. But then I so
Speaker 1: I came back to Dallas and uh, this was probably
Speaker 1: two thousand twelve, and UM, just kind of started to
Speaker 1: pursue more freelance stuff. You know. I I'm an avid writer,
Speaker 1: and so I started trying to get more editorial work
Speaker 1: and brand work. So I kind of started to pursue
Speaker 1: brands like Philson and and Stetson and Cabela's and ended
Speaker 1: up getting hired by Cabela's and worked with duchan Um
Speaker 1: and uh. And that was kind of the shift for
Speaker 1: me because then I kind of I almost quit photography
Speaker 1: because I was like, you know, as you know, being
Speaker 1: an editorial freelancers impossible full time. Yeah, you can't make weddings.
Speaker 1: I was doing senior portraits. I was doing corporate head
Speaker 1: shots whatever, right should have you follow up your line
Speaker 1: story with like a senior portraits story. No, please don't
Speaker 1: make me. Um. So I I almost quit, and I
Speaker 1: was like at the end of my rope, and I
Speaker 1: just thought to myself, Okay, if I didn't have to
Speaker 1: worry about money and I could just do the kind
Speaker 1: of photography I want to do, what would it be.
Speaker 1: And that's you know, kind of what we're doing now, right,
Speaker 1: Sporting life documentary, Uh, you know, conservation storytelling, um, outdoor adventure.
Speaker 1: You know, my mom's from Nacona, Texas, which is a
Speaker 1: pretty famous like Western history cowboy tant Nacona Boots and
Speaker 1: Justin Boots are all from there. So I've done a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff with Texas Parks and I'm sorry Texas
Speaker 1: Historical Commission. Um. And so I just kind of said,
Speaker 1: all right, you know what from now and I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna take anything that's not this stuff. And UM, I
Speaker 1: managed to land a gig with Garden Gun and started
Speaker 1: doing some work with them, and worked with Cubby Rise
Speaker 1: for a while. UM, and then just through this entire process, right,
Speaker 1: especially because Texas is a pretty hunting friendly state, that's right, right.
Speaker 1: But when I would come back from Africa, people would
Speaker 1: have these emotional reactions because they just for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: they've got an emotional testment to these animals, or they've
Speaker 1: heard something online. And so I kind of had these
Speaker 1: two realizations. One that the hunting industry does an absolute
Speaker 1: terrible job of communicating with non hunters about why it
Speaker 1: matters about its rolling conservation um. And then the second
Speaker 1: part of that realization was that most non hunters are
Speaker 1: either not educated or directly misinformed about hunting's rolling conservation.
Speaker 1: And so, uh, that combined with my experience with other
Speaker 1: magazines and how I felt like things could be done
Speaker 1: better UM. Highlighting the contributors a lot more, you know,
Speaker 1: promoting things online UM is kind of what led to
Speaker 1: starting modern huntsmen, I think. And when people see when
Speaker 1: you're expressly say things like that, and I've said these
Speaker 1: things before. Here's the problems I see with hunting, right,
Speaker 1: and the messaging. I don't have any problem with the
Speaker 1: act of hunting, but the messaging being a problem. I
Speaker 1: think people there's some people that are immediately turned off,
Speaker 1: WHOA sure, well, don't tell me what's wrong with what
Speaker 1: I got going on. So there's a there's a there's
Speaker 1: a fine line to walk there. I think we try
Speaker 1: to walk it because we love it so much. You
Speaker 1: want it to be um beneficial for society and you
Speaker 1: want people that don't do it to understand it. There's
Speaker 1: pressure there to do that. So with modern husband like, however,
Speaker 1: you try to walk that line because it is a
Speaker 1: it's a it's a thin one. It's difficult. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: I think we can all agree that hunting is in
Speaker 1: a hole. And it wasn't you and me that dug
Speaker 1: the hall, right, So that's a hard conversation to have, right,
Speaker 1: And and I feel like we're in a really difficult
Speaker 1: position because I've intentionally positioned modern huntsman on the periphery
Speaker 1: of the hunting industry, because if we are perceived as
Speaker 1: deep within the belly of that, we will not be
Speaker 1: able to accomplish our goal, which is too communicate with
Speaker 1: people who don't hunt and improve their viewpoint of what
Speaker 1: we do, right, which makes it hard because the hunting
Speaker 1: industry is so UM, I don't I don't want to say,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't. I don't know how to say this,
Speaker 1: but uh, they stick to their own right and I
Speaker 1: think you could agree with the story I just told, like,
Speaker 1: I've I've earned my chops, right, I've I've seen and
Speaker 1: been and done the hunting industry, and so I understand it,
Speaker 1: and I know that there's a lot of really good
Speaker 1: people who are really dedicated to trying to keep it
Speaker 1: moving forward, to keep it alive, to grow our numbers. However,
Speaker 1: the tone that's being used and the methods they're trying
Speaker 1: to communicate aren't working, and it's a it's an us
Speaker 1: versus them, and I you know, I wrote about this
Speaker 1: in my editor's letter, like it can't be us versus
Speaker 1: them anymore. It's got to be all of us, both
Speaker 1: sides together against all of the conservation issues that we face.
Speaker 1: I think, and I think there's some there's some difficulties
Speaker 1: in all this. And one of the main difficulties is
Speaker 1: how you just articulated like wanting to kind of position
Speaker 1: off away from the core, but then use in terms
Speaker 1: like we and like we who what's we? You know?
Speaker 1: What's that collective? Really? Because it's it's hard to define
Speaker 1: if you feel like, well, these people don't represent me,
Speaker 1: I need to represent something different than them or the
Speaker 1: way that they've done in the past, or at least
Speaker 1: like a sea change a bit in the messaging. It's
Speaker 1: hard to come to bring that all together, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's that's that's extremely difficult. Like pulling the core hunting
Speaker 1: community that's kind of stuck in their ways or maybe
Speaker 1: cause this problem that you perceive towards your thing. That's
Speaker 1: that's hard. I think we've all found it to be
Speaker 1: hard thinking that, you know, thinking is that better falling
Speaker 1: apart because I can't. You can't. You can hear me.
Speaker 1: If you can't, we're recording. There's something going on with
Speaker 1: this piece of machinery. You can hear me. Yeah, let
Speaker 1: me see is this this is mine? Here? It goes
Speaker 1: back and forth. Yeah, I wonder that is if it's connection.
Speaker 1: Just trying to check with it. Uh yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I I've used this metaphor before, and uh I haven't.
Speaker 1: I haven't been blasted for it yet, So just keep
Speaker 1: going with it. Um. You know, it's like you have
Speaker 1: a grandpa who's kind of hands e right, and you're
Speaker 1: at the birthday party and Grandpa maybe like grabbed your girlfriend.
Speaker 1: You're like, Grandpa, you cause some problems and we love
Speaker 1: you and you're a good guy, But just you need
Speaker 1: to sit in this chair for the rest of the party.
Speaker 1: And there'll be a time when you can come back,
Speaker 1: but for right now, we've got to fix this, right
Speaker 1: And so Grandpa, right, that's not a specific person, that's
Speaker 1: not a specific organization. That's let's call it the old mentality, right,
Speaker 1: the let's let's articulate that, like what's the old well, well,
Speaker 1: articulately the old mentality, as you see, and then what
Speaker 1: modern hunts from represents. Sure, so I think that the
Speaker 1: old mentality in let's say the nineties, right, Um, there
Speaker 1: wasn't social media, right, and and there wasn't the global
Speaker 1: uh spread of information in a second, right, and so
Speaker 1: there was this kind of combative language that was going on,
Speaker 1: right the US first, the antis kind of thing. Well,
Speaker 1: the antis aren't it's not as descript anymore. It is
Speaker 1: now because they've they're smart, they've mobilized, they've created media conglomerates.
Speaker 1: So now it's not just that organization versus this organization.
Speaker 1: It's whatever they want to say goes to the entire world.
Speaker 1: And they are much better at social media and and
Speaker 1: and media. I mean, like Cecil the Lion, Nobody in
Speaker 1: Africa knew who sees the lion was Nope, nope, that
Speaker 1: was he was not a celebrity. But they were brilliant
Speaker 1: in their marketing and they came up with a campaign
Speaker 1: and they accomplished their goal. Right. And as a result,
Speaker 1: lion importation and elephant importation United States has been banned,
Speaker 1: which has had drastic effects on the on the African conservation.
Speaker 1: Tanzania has lost over fifty of its hunting blocks because
Speaker 1: people can't afford to manage it anymore. So I think
Speaker 1: that when I go, I'm gonna go back to the
Speaker 1: US versus them thing. It can't be a fight anymore.
Speaker 1: It's okay, let me change that. It has to be
Speaker 1: a fight, but we gotta fight differently, right, It's got
Speaker 1: to be a constructive conversation. It can't be rock throwing
Speaker 1: anymore because's not working. It's it's factly, I think it's
Speaker 1: getting worse if that's the path we continue down. And
Speaker 1: so um, it's a difficult conversation, right because these are
Speaker 1: these are people that I've worked with and respect and
Speaker 1: uh and and and it's it's hard in the same
Speaker 1: in any relationship, right to say, hey, listen, I feel
Speaker 1: like you're screwed up, right, and and and communicating that
Speaker 1: to someone in a way that's respectful, that doesn't um
Speaker 1: get their defenses up, because that's the key in anything, right,
Speaker 1: So and and and I think that's the difference with
Speaker 1: modern hunts and where we are, how we are. It's working.
Speaker 1: We're having conversations with non hunters, with vegans, with vegetarians,
Speaker 1: with brands like Patagonia, because we're doing it in a
Speaker 1: different way that I don't know if I want to
Speaker 1: say it's more respectful, but it's in a tone that
Speaker 1: isn't getting their defenses up, and and is making it
Speaker 1: more possible for us to actually have a conversation and
Speaker 1: point out the material in an educational way rather than
Speaker 1: a defensive way, because if it gets defensive, no one listens. Yeah,
Speaker 1: is there do you feel like? I think specific when
Speaker 1: we talk about the messaging, there's no way to get around.
Speaker 1: It's annoying to me, and I'm sure annoying to you
Speaker 1: to continue to talk about trophy hunting scandals because some
Speaker 1: person took a picture with some animal that somebody didn't like.
Speaker 1: It's it's getting to be real old, but it's still
Speaker 1: when you hear about hunting in the media effect, Uh,
Speaker 1: maybe what it was CBS just ran a thing about
Speaker 1: trophy hunting and had you know, it is the trophy
Speaker 1: hunting versus conservation, right, and that continually is a messaging
Speaker 1: and people like said, people that live in Chicago, they
Speaker 1: might of New York, this is the only thing they see.
Speaker 1: And so how do you change that part? Is there
Speaker 1: a way to change that part? Because that's we just
Speaker 1: gotta change the word. Yeah, So in Namibia, So Byron
Speaker 1: and I were just over in Namibia speaking on a
Speaker 1: journalism symposium in a room full of mostly non hunters
Speaker 1: talking about African hunting, which was super interesting. However, Namibia
Speaker 1: has deliberately changed their term to conservation hunting. It's no
Speaker 1: longer trophy hunting, and just that right there, right, because
Speaker 1: when people hear trophy and we could we could spend
Speaker 1: all the time in the world trying to describe someone. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: trophy technically means memento, right, and so if you are
Speaker 1: trying to harvest an old, the oldest, biggest bull you can,
Speaker 1: that's one of the best things you can actually do
Speaker 1: for the herd dynamics, right, But that's not what people
Speaker 1: think they think you're just going for the big antlers.
Speaker 1: And some people are right, and that's fine, right, but
Speaker 1: we have to be cognizant of the fact that we
Speaker 1: live in a world where stuff gets spread all over
Speaker 1: the world immediately, and then there are a lot of
Speaker 1: people who are going to take that and misappropriate it
Speaker 1: and use it to their own gains for whatever financial
Speaker 1: you know, initiatives they have. Uh. And so do I
Speaker 1: think that people should be able to post their trophy
Speaker 1: photos because they they they're proud of it. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think they do. However, that's not the reality of the
Speaker 1: world we live in. And so I think that if
Speaker 1: you truly care about the future of hunting, right, you
Speaker 1: have to at least be aware of the consequences of
Speaker 1: doing something like that. And it can't be this and
Speaker 1: this is part of the old mentality like oh screw this,
Speaker 1: I'm going down with the ship. We don't want the
Speaker 1: ship to go down. We would like the ship to
Speaker 1: stay afloat. And that's what I'm devoted to. And uh,
Speaker 1: we're gonna get chastised for it and criticized for it
Speaker 1: because we're not saying the same things. And I would
Speaker 1: like to. I have to you know, we have ties
Speaker 1: and alliances within the hunting industry, but it's not the
Speaker 1: majority I'm having to gain that and and and it's
Speaker 1: not a short conversation, right, It's something that takes uh
Speaker 1: sitting down and me being able to explain the chess
Speaker 1: game that we're playing. Yeah, And I think give people
Speaker 1: a few examples of you don't have the name names,
Speaker 1: like times you've been challenged. Um, well I think that
Speaker 1: you know, for for instance, me personally, right, Um, someone
Speaker 1: goes to my Instagram account and there's not pictures of
Speaker 1: dead animals on there, right, And so I've been accused
Speaker 1: or criticized for not being a real hunter, right or
Speaker 1: being hardcore whatever you wanna call it. But that's a choice,
Speaker 1: right because if I put that, there's a way to
Speaker 1: do that, right, Um, But if I don't do it
Speaker 1: the right way, then it's going to unravel all the
Speaker 1: work we've done. So Um. As a as an individual,
Speaker 1: I see myself as a diplomat, right, I see myself
Speaker 1: as as an ambassador for what I believe to be
Speaker 1: our you know, the virtues of hunting. And and I
Speaker 1: can't sit here and give you a list of like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is right. This is wrong because as you know,
Speaker 1: it's incredibly nuanced and there's a lot of gray area.
Speaker 1: But in the same way that we could both agree
Speaker 1: that honesty and integrity and loyalty and bravery are all virtues, right,
Speaker 1: they represent a moral center. That's what we're trying to
Speaker 1: promote in this book is the people and the places
Speaker 1: and the situations and the organizations that represent what we
Speaker 1: feel to be are, you know, virtues of hunting? Presenting
Speaker 1: that in a visual format that could be could win
Speaker 1: a design Design awards um and that allows access and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, engagement from people who aren't part of the
Speaker 1: hunting industry. So would you say that, like, I'm looking
Speaker 1: at the volume three cover, it's a beautiful photo of
Speaker 1: a hunter. What's it? The water buffalo water buffalo arhem
Speaker 1: lands in Australia. It's a beautiful photo. Would you say
Speaker 1: this represents like your proposed new way of thinking? And
Speaker 1: then if you were to look at another magazine with
Speaker 1: a dude sitting behind a big giant buck, and that's
Speaker 1: like the older way. There's plenty of magazines that we
Speaker 1: can call to we won't call him out, but this
Speaker 1: is like there's that and there's this well how do
Speaker 1: you see those two things? Right? I don't want to
Speaker 1: call it a new way of thinking because it's not
Speaker 1: a new way of thinking. Right. There's been people throughout
Speaker 1: history who have tried to do things what they feel
Speaker 1: to be is that's your way of this version of
Speaker 1: let's let's call it a m you know, a different philosophy, right,
Speaker 1: one that's focused on I hate to use the word inclusiveness.
Speaker 1: That's kind of a buzzword. But uh, we're talking to
Speaker 1: a different audience than so the I'll give you, I
Speaker 1: will give you that because examples in volume three, Max
Speaker 1: low is in here. Yeah, a lot of people listeners
Speaker 1: won't know who Max Lowe is. Max low is in
Speaker 1: the outdoor recreation industry is like a rising star. Yeah,
Speaker 1: climber his I would say, Stepdad is Conrad or Conrad anchor.
Speaker 1: So this is a person that isn't traditionally involved in
Speaker 1: what we do anything with hunting. Right. He tells and
Speaker 1: he tells the story to hear about some of that.
Speaker 1: But there's also guys like Jason Matt Singer in here
Speaker 1: who is core hunting um and guys like Charles Post
Speaker 1: who isn't Jesse Griffin is probably not. So there's just
Speaker 1: a lot of different perspectives here, and I'll give you that.
Speaker 1: I think that's that's in the work is reflected and
Speaker 1: I think that the difference right with a magazine with
Speaker 1: a big buck on the cover with the guy sitting
Speaker 1: behind it, that's that's speaking to a specific audience, right,
Speaker 1: There's there's people who that's what they want to see,
Speaker 1: Like they know how to score that deer, they probably
Speaker 1: know where it was, and and that's uh, it's a
Speaker 1: specialized thing, right, And so we're not talking about a
Speaker 1: specialized thing. We're talking about engaged ng with a non
Speaker 1: hunting public. And I'm doing my best to maintain credibility
Speaker 1: in the hunting industry that we do have a balance
Speaker 1: of people who are legitimate hunters. Um. But at the
Speaker 1: same time, you know, I think that, like we were
Speaker 1: talking about earlier, we're not when I say we the
Speaker 1: hunting industry are not going to survive if we don't
Speaker 1: allow other people who aren't considered core hunters into the space,
Speaker 1: because that number is dwindling and things are changing, number
Speaker 1: of populations are growing, humans are screwing everything up, right,
Speaker 1: And so I think that Um. You know, a lot
Speaker 1: of the crossover we've had has been with the outdoor industry,
Speaker 1: guys like Chris Burk Card, guys like Ben Moon and
Speaker 1: Josh Murphy who are award winning filmmakers who do a
Speaker 1: lot of work with Patagonia, and and and every issue
Speaker 1: has been a progression, and we're now having conversations. Our
Speaker 1: next issue is a women's issue, and it's it's all.
Speaker 1: Every story is gonna be focused on women and hunting
Speaker 1: and conservation and you know, calling area and arts and
Speaker 1: all that. And that is a really great access point
Speaker 1: for some of these outdoor brands who now see the
Speaker 1: rising interest in the female population or people. You know,
Speaker 1: we had a quote from Ivan and Um in the
Speaker 1: second issue that was like, people aren't just hunters anymore.
Speaker 1: Their hikers and their climbers and their surfers and their
Speaker 1: hunters Pagonies. Yeah, I mean you're right, and I do
Speaker 1: feel I will say, I want to let let you
Speaker 1: talk about your thing here. I think it's just it's
Speaker 1: interesting and important. But I do agree with you. I
Speaker 1: feel I feel that as a community, we know we've
Speaker 1: got to grow. Everybody would agree with that, right, How
Speaker 1: we do it the way in which we message is
Speaker 1: something we can talk about all day. But I feel
Speaker 1: very strongly that if we if as a community, not
Speaker 1: everyone does this, but there are certain factions that do.
Speaker 1: If we're going to push out people that think differently
Speaker 1: and look differently and act differently, if we're going to
Speaker 1: like typify a hunter and if you don't live up
Speaker 1: to that that thing, if we're gonna push you out
Speaker 1: or or downgrade your status in the hunting industry to
Speaker 1: do things like that, the people, then we're not going
Speaker 1: to grow. We're never going to have the chance to
Speaker 1: expand the way we think, expand the way UM other
Speaker 1: folks think about us. Like we're never going to build
Speaker 1: a bridge ever. And so regardless of how of who's
Speaker 1: on either side of the bridge, if we can't bring
Speaker 1: someone in and say, okay, you're not you're in brand
Speaker 1: new hunter. You may be legit in this field, but
Speaker 1: you're not legit. Come over, let's teach you, let's learn
Speaker 1: from you, exactly Like, if you can't do that, you're
Speaker 1: never gonna nothing's ever gonna happen. So I do agree
Speaker 1: with that, but it's a it's an opportunity, you know.
Speaker 1: I think that that um a lot of people who
Speaker 1: are experienced hunters, and especially out in the West, you know. Uh,
Speaker 1: I would say in a sense, they're kind of xenophobic, right,
Speaker 1: they don't Montana is full go home, right, which you know,
Speaker 1: you don't want gentrification, you don't want massive development all that.
Speaker 1: But if someone's there right with a California plate and
Speaker 1: they're doing something they shouldn't be doing, that's an opportunity
Speaker 1: to engage with them and maybe teach them the right way, right,
Speaker 1: rather than have a confrontational experience that's going to make
Speaker 1: them feel unwelcome or turned off from now be you know,
Speaker 1: growing their interests in hunting and fishing, you know. And
Speaker 1: I think that that's a really important thing to do.
Speaker 1: And it's hard, right because and I wrote about this
Speaker 1: in the editor's letter that in a way modern huntsman
Speaker 1: is meant to be a mirror that's forcing us in
Speaker 1: the hunting industry to think about the what the things
Speaker 1: we say and the things we do. And we're not
Speaker 1: gonna like some of that, right and and so I
Speaker 1: would my hope is that we are not blamed as
Speaker 1: the mirror, the mirror instrument of reflection by viewing something
Speaker 1: unpleasant about the way things are versus the way they
Speaker 1: should be. And so I think that, you know, in
Speaker 1: the spirit of self improvement, I would hope that over
Speaker 1: time that these things can move forward and that this
Speaker 1: can be easier and and you've got let's let's think
Speaker 1: about you know, Dallas a Frai Club and sci right
Speaker 1: at these shows. Think about a non hunter walking into
Speaker 1: those shows. They're like, what is this? You know, and
Speaker 1: I would like to see And this is a conversation
Speaker 1: I'm having with Corey at Dallas a Frai Club, is
Speaker 1: that even if it's a small section that that is
Speaker 1: presented differently, that it's maybe it's a gallery of some
Speaker 1: of this work, or it's you know, some films, or
Speaker 1: it's uh, some chefs, or it's something that's not just
Speaker 1: you know, the traditional convention center with a bunch of
Speaker 1: blown up to animals all over it with you know,
Speaker 1: that that's what it's about. That the current because that
Speaker 1: currency is big horns, uh and and big hunts, and
Speaker 1: that currency needs to shift a little bit, right so
Speaker 1: that it's more about the experience. Because I think we
Speaker 1: could all agree, at least you and mean, I don't
Speaker 1: know about everybody, and that's fine if you want if
Speaker 1: you're just out for the score, But I don't hunt
Speaker 1: for that like I hunt for the experience, and that
Speaker 1: is that that is the way that we get other
Speaker 1: people involved, because that's what you're looking for. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: I I feel let me I'll play devil's advocate for
Speaker 1: a minute because it's always fun to I wouldn't expect
Speaker 1: anything to go there. That's me. I'm the devil's advocate.
Speaker 1: But I really I would say one in this conversation,
Speaker 1: I want to let you just say what modern huntsman
Speaker 1: is and get that out there. How's having a conversation.
Speaker 1: I'm going next week to Berkeley, California. I'm going to
Speaker 1: go to the Berkeley Animal Rights Center. I'm gonna have
Speaker 1: a conversation with some uh animal rights activists and then
Speaker 1: talking to them, I said, specifically about trophy hunting, what
Speaker 1: is it that you what is it that gets you
Speaker 1: about it? It's like, because you're talking about the motivation
Speaker 1: of the individual, you're not talking about the benefit. Because
Speaker 1: if you're looking at the benefit of trophy hunting for
Speaker 1: African game and conservancies and when they were created, and
Speaker 1: the fact that there's more more game than ever, and
Speaker 1: it's more valuable than ever for the people that live there.
Speaker 1: It's kind of you can't really argue that when you really,
Speaker 1: when you look at the facts, you can't. It's hard
Speaker 1: to argue. But if let's just say, if there's a
Speaker 1: small amount of people in this case, and indeed those
Speaker 1: those shows kind of typify or signify what that really is.
Speaker 1: Small amount of people with a lot of money who
Speaker 1: think a certain way, right, those you would never set
Speaker 1: up a stable conservation system in that way. A very
Speaker 1: small amount of people with a lot of funding that
Speaker 1: desire to go to a place that they that they
Speaker 1: may or may not care about. It's not required to
Speaker 1: them to care about the economic or social and economic
Speaker 1: economic issues in Africa or any one country, or the
Speaker 1: wildlife populations in the place where they go. It's required
Speaker 1: of them to pay the money and get on a
Speaker 1: plane and go do their things. So we've not analyzed
Speaker 1: their motivations, which makes that relationship unstable, right, it's an
Speaker 1: unstable relationship. You're relying on that small room of people
Speaker 1: that walk around a d s C or s c
Speaker 1: I and fund but it's a very important conservation initiative.
Speaker 1: So I think that I just think from a from
Speaker 1: a pragmatic level, from a even from a devil's avoca level,
Speaker 1: that's unstable. So you have that point, and then you
Speaker 1: have what's motivating that small group of people to go
Speaker 1: over there to kill those animals, because I don't think
Speaker 1: I don't think anti hunters or non hunters would have
Speaker 1: a problem if that motivation was removed. If those people
Speaker 1: were flying over there, they happen to kill a couple
Speaker 1: of animals and eat them. But they were given that
Speaker 1: money to you know, a conservation organization, to a small government,
Speaker 1: or to some individual or group of people that could
Speaker 1: better the mission, and so it for for most folks,
Speaker 1: I think it falls apart with that motivation. So it's
Speaker 1: hard to separate the motivation from the end result. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think that, um, that's something we're actually talking
Speaker 1: a lot about. Uh to boil volume three down to
Speaker 1: the you know, when I say it stated in like
Speaker 1: a one statement, it's there's a lot of amazing animals
Speaker 1: in the world, and for one circumstance or another, a
Speaker 1: lot of them have to die. Yeah, and thankfully they
Speaker 1: there are a lot of systems in place that make
Speaker 1: sure that that is done. Responsibly, sustainably and financially. Financially sensibly,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're gonna use two in a row,
Speaker 1: but yeah, so in that sense, right, the conversation I've
Speaker 1: always had about Africa, right, because I've filmed again are gamut. Right.
Speaker 1: Some guys save their whole life to go on a
Speaker 1: buffalo and like cried the first time they shot a
Speaker 1: buff with their four seventy double rifle, which was amazing, Right.
Speaker 1: And then I've got guys who just couldn't care less.
Speaker 1: This is their twenties safari, right, And just like with
Speaker 1: any job, you keep your mouth shut, right, you bite
Speaker 1: your tongue and you say, you know what, this guy
Speaker 1: doesn't uphold what I feel to be are the virtues
Speaker 1: of hunting. And I feel like somebody should appreciate what
Speaker 1: they're being able to do right here, but they don't write. Thankfully,
Speaker 1: the system is in place where the money they're paying
Speaker 1: is going to the people who do care and are
Speaker 1: helping that continue. Um. But that's something that we're trying
Speaker 1: to do, is show that there's a difference. Right there
Speaker 1: are the people who don't give a ship, They just
Speaker 1: want to kill, right, But that's not most of us.
Speaker 1: And so I think that creating that distinction for the public, right,
Speaker 1: because when they when someone looks online and they see
Speaker 1: sensationalized Facebook posts or some you know, you know, main
Speaker 1: media slander, they lump hunters all into that category, and
Speaker 1: that's the narrative. Let's bring no, no, no, it is
Speaker 1: the mainstream. However you would define mainstream, that's the narrative
Speaker 1: base push, And it's often like push the narrative to
Speaker 1: the point now where there there's enough people questioning, okay,
Speaker 1: well what's the counter narrative? Right that even when you
Speaker 1: when you watch the New CBS thing or any of
Speaker 1: any of the documentaries, you find people embracing the counter
Speaker 1: narrative enough at least to address it exactly and set
Speaker 1: up the two different sides. So I think that that's
Speaker 1: really the point is to show that, look this, there's
Speaker 1: more than that, right, uh. And and to do that
Speaker 1: requires a little bit of separation from that right and so, um,
Speaker 1: you know, not to say that one's holier than thou, right,
Speaker 1: but it's one of those things where um, I find
Speaker 1: I found myself being held accountable for someone else's actions.
Speaker 1: And I don't really think that's you can't say it's
Speaker 1: fair because that doesn't matter. But you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to do something about it, right, to show
Speaker 1: that there are other people in this world who do
Speaker 1: things differently. And yeah, those guys are assholes, right, Maybe
Speaker 1: the one guy is a dick, but you know what,
Speaker 1: he does pay a lot of money and that money
Speaker 1: goes to the right places. So we can accept the
Speaker 1: bad behavior of Grandpa, you know, and and he can
Speaker 1: he can still hang out. But we just need to
Speaker 1: know that, like, we have our differences. And I would
Speaker 1: hope over time that um, that the support of some
Speaker 1: of the and you know, I worked for a lot
Speaker 1: of um of of guys who are you know, Texas
Speaker 1: um kind of oil barrens, right, And there's some of
Speaker 1: the nicest, most humble people I've ever met my entire life. Um,
Speaker 1: but they're they're old school, right, and they're super conservative
Speaker 1: and so and I'm I'm not a Democrat or a
Speaker 1: liberal by any means. I saw my entire life in Texas,
Speaker 1: but so I try to stay middle of the road.
Speaker 1: It's my job now to be an observer and understand
Speaker 1: both sides and try to find a solution, not a solution,
Speaker 1: but at least progress towards a solution. And so the
Speaker 1: conversations I'm having with guys, you know, like like Larry
Speaker 1: or some of my former clients, is listen, we're all
Speaker 1: going the same direction, right, we all have the same goal,
Speaker 1: but the road that we've been on before isn't working,
Speaker 1: and so we were trying to go on a different road.
Speaker 1: And more than anything, we just need your help, right,
Speaker 1: and we need you to understand that this is not
Speaker 1: some infiltration, you know, greeny, you know, whatever you wanna
Speaker 1: call it. This is it's a psychology move, it's a
Speaker 1: it's a chess move, and we need the backing. So
Speaker 1: you know, those are conversations I'm having with leadership some
Speaker 1: of these organizations is we need we need meat eater,
Speaker 1: we need you know, b h A, we need all
Speaker 1: of those, but we also need this too, because when
Speaker 1: you look at the spectrum, we've got to cover more
Speaker 1: than just the ground we're currently covering. And so that's
Speaker 1: that's what I'm trying to do. Yeah, I mean, when
Speaker 1: you have those conversations with folks in those positions, because
Speaker 1: I think I've probably made a mistake in the past
Speaker 1: of condemning those entire organizations when I go. Now, when
Speaker 1: I go, I think Wild Cheap does a pretty good
Speaker 1: job of They've done a pretty good job. Great Thorte
Speaker 1: and crew have done it. You know what I would
Speaker 1: would would say is a great job of understanding what's
Speaker 1: going on and trying to go to their show, and
Speaker 1: you really feel that they're they're making an effort to
Speaker 1: kind of see both sides of that, see how it was,
Speaker 1: how it needs to be, and really put that all
Speaker 1: together in one thing. What's the conversation with folks that
Speaker 1: like Fari Club or Dallas Fari Club? Do they see
Speaker 1: it when you talk to do they recognize it? Are
Speaker 1: they are they worried? Or or there is an insular
Speaker 1: seeing it more? Right? Um? Because I mean it's a
Speaker 1: tune in seventy two page book. It's not something to
Speaker 1: be like, hey read this Pamplint real quick, right, and
Speaker 1: it's it's pretty in depth. Um. You know, I think
Speaker 1: that the hunting industry or a lot of these organizations, right,
Speaker 1: however good our intentions might be, in most cases, it's
Speaker 1: a room full of members of the same club, all
Speaker 1: agreeing with each other, and when that conversation goes outside
Speaker 1: of the room two people that aren't part of that club.
Speaker 1: A lot of times it ceases to be productive because
Speaker 1: the communication is broke down, right. And so in the
Speaker 1: same way that you know, you can think about a
Speaker 1: PR campaign or communication strategy or a style guide, that's
Speaker 1: what we're trying to do is create a new method
Speaker 1: of communication, uh of of visual representation that is still
Speaker 1: is accomplishing the same goals. But again is is we're
Speaker 1: trying to go around it. So when they see that,
Speaker 1: they're not thinking about Cecil the lion, even though we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about it and we're going to hit
Speaker 1: him with the truth, you know. So I think that
Speaker 1: that's no matter what it is, right, um, because so
Speaker 1: much of the messaging of these organizations is is in interior, right,
Speaker 1: it's two other hunters, it's it's this or that which
Speaker 1: is important, right, because there's a lot of hunters who
Speaker 1: you know, could perhaps stand to to learn more about
Speaker 1: you know, public land or do more than just pay
Speaker 1: the Pittman robertson tax right or get involved. Right. That's
Speaker 1: all stuff that's good, um, But like, like we all
Speaker 1: agree that those numbers are going down, So where's that
Speaker 1: going to come from? And I personally believe it's going
Speaker 1: to come from outside and the only way to accomplish
Speaker 1: that is to communicate in a different way. Yeah. Do
Speaker 1: you feel like, all right, I'm sure I'm guilty of
Speaker 1: this is something level too. Do you feel like you
Speaker 1: talk so much about it and you think so much
Speaker 1: about it, and you think about and like you said,
Speaker 1: it's not a new way, but it's just like your
Speaker 1: way articulating what hunting is or what it could be
Speaker 1: or it's really it's value proposition for society, which I
Speaker 1: think what we're talking about anyway, Like is it valuable
Speaker 1: for society? Yes? Or no? That's what everybody wants to know.
Speaker 1: It's hunting. We're in a different spot and we have
Speaker 1: human linkage like all the way going back to when
Speaker 1: we were hominids to to this activity. So there's no
Speaker 1: arguing that. But in the modern sense, our length, the
Speaker 1: links in the chain are starting to get get broken. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So is there is there a version of this where
Speaker 1: you're worried about pulling the wool over people's eyes, like, hey,
Speaker 1: this is how it really is, right, modern huntsman, is
Speaker 1: how it really is. But people can can the people
Speaker 1: that I don't agree with can remain under the cover
Speaker 1: of what I've created to do the things they want
Speaker 1: to do, and not I. I do not in any
Speaker 1: way believe that this is, you know, hardline, this is
Speaker 1: the way it should be, right. I think that what
Speaker 1: I'm what what we're trying to do is we're not
Speaker 1: trying to be the experts. I'm not. I mean, I
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time in Africa, right, so I
Speaker 1: have a lot of experience that has given me knowledge.
Speaker 1: But I'm not an expert, and I don't know you're
Speaker 1: pretty your expertise is pretty bona fied, Okay, but we're
Speaker 1: not talking about but I'm not a researcher. I don't
Speaker 1: live there, even though I have and there are Basically,
Speaker 1: if we were going to get put on the spot,
Speaker 1: I would not I would get somebody else who knows
Speaker 1: more than me there, right, and so on all of
Speaker 1: these topics and all these issues. I'm trying to bring
Speaker 1: together a diverse array of perspectives that present what I
Speaker 1: feel to be constructive conversations, right, to show some diversity,
Speaker 1: to talk about it in a different way. Um. And
Speaker 1: it's not that I think that like this is the
Speaker 1: way it should be Charles always says the term best
Speaker 1: and could be better practices. Right, These are people that
Speaker 1: we feel like are doing really good work. Right, doesn't
Speaker 1: mean that somebody else is bad. And we're not trying
Speaker 1: to point fingers slap risk, but showing good examples that
Speaker 1: we feel good about promoting, right, And uh, you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's one of those things that it's it's
Speaker 1: going to be ever changing, right because the whole hunting
Speaker 1: is conservation thing right now, it is right, hunting pays
Speaker 1: for whatever. You know, what's the person that's gonna go down,
Speaker 1: you know, and so what's the alternative? Right? The alternative
Speaker 1: has got to be across collaboration with non hunting organizations, right.
Speaker 1: I mean in Africa the perfect example. I was just
Speaker 1: in Namibia and there's um, you know there there's these
Speaker 1: community based conservancies, right where a village gets to decide,
Speaker 1: they participate in the census, they get to decide who
Speaker 1: gets to hunt. They they vet the outfitter. Uh, they
Speaker 1: get community hunting privileges, they get the meat, they get
Speaker 1: the money, they decide how to use the money. Right,
Speaker 1: they're managing their own wildlife resources. But these areas bump
Speaker 1: up against photographics so far areas right, and in most
Speaker 1: cases the photographic lodges were paid for by the community conservancy.
Speaker 1: So they're now having to have these difficult because these
Speaker 1: photographic clients come in they're like, oh, this is bullshit.
Speaker 1: I can't believe you would allow people to murder these animals,
Speaker 1: Like well, first of all, murder means human. Second of all,
Speaker 1: this was paid for by that And so those conversations
Speaker 1: are helping them, you know, in and that allows them
Speaker 1: to hire more scouts, right, more anti poaching. Now the
Speaker 1: farmers are invested in protecting the wildlife rather than scaring
Speaker 1: them off with a pitchfork because they smashed their crops.
Speaker 1: And so that mixture, right of of non hunting and
Speaker 1: hunting is that's the only way I I feel like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what that mixture looks like. But the
Speaker 1: conversations are starting now, and and those are conversations we
Speaker 1: were having in Africa, um and and it's something that
Speaker 1: actually we're probably gonna do a story on. Is is
Speaker 1: plant someone in these lodges an interview photographic Safari people
Speaker 1: as they come through, like, Hey, how do you feel
Speaker 1: about the fact that this place was funded by community
Speaker 1: based hunting. You know, that's what I mean. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: That's where I'm at two, And I wonder there's a
Speaker 1: lot of things where this manifests itself. The point that
Speaker 1: I'm making about wanting to say, this is the way
Speaker 1: I think about hunting. You should love hunting the way
Speaker 1: I love it. And then people come walking into, you know,
Speaker 1: the tent in which we've invited them to come into,
Speaker 1: and they look around there, Wait a minute, what's that
Speaker 1: over there? Like, well, that's kind of that's Grandpaul, he's
Speaker 1: over there. And so that's manifests itself in a lot
Speaker 1: of things. We say harvest not kill. We like, we've
Speaker 1: watered down some of the things in an effort to
Speaker 1: better message, but we've also watered down the realities. So
Speaker 1: how do you balance that? Because I will do that
Speaker 1: all the time, But so how do you use this
Speaker 1: example before? Too? So think about if you're talking to
Speaker 1: your wife right and you're maybe you're feeling in the
Speaker 1: mood there's a friends and saying I would like to
Speaker 1: make love or I would like to screw. That's true, okay,
Speaker 1: So think of it that way. The choice of words
Speaker 1: and the tone that those words inject and that's kind
Speaker 1: of the whole basis of this is do we need
Speaker 1: to apologize? No? Do we need to change our lifestyles?
Speaker 1: And in most cases no, do we need to change
Speaker 1: the way that we present ourselves and the way that
Speaker 1: we communicate with people who aren't in the hunt in industry? Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: in a major way, or it's going to get worse.
Speaker 1: And and so I think that, um, you know, that's
Speaker 1: that's kind of what it is. And and it's uh.
Speaker 1: And instead of saying, Okay, we're backed up against the ropes,
Speaker 1: we're gonna start swinging. Just get out of the ring
Speaker 1: for a second, be like, you know what, let's have
Speaker 1: a beer, Let's take a break. I'm not good at
Speaker 1: boxing anyway. So which isn't true, by the way, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're telling me not. I think it's it's it's one
Speaker 1: people who know me will know. It's a willingness to
Speaker 1: have the conversation, like the strength of conviction to know, like,
Speaker 1: I love this thing. I want to I want to
Speaker 1: have every single conversation I could possibly have to make
Speaker 1: it better. I want to show that in my actions.
Speaker 1: I would show that in my creative work, which which
Speaker 1: is um, which which is what modern huntsman is But like,
Speaker 1: continue to believe that this is good, believe that it
Speaker 1: needs better pr and believe that I, me, you, whomever
Speaker 1: can be a part of that change. Is that change
Speaker 1: gonna is there gonna be some spasmatic pushback from any
Speaker 1: change or any kind of like stated purpose like that.
Speaker 1: Of course there's going to be. UM, but I think
Speaker 1: there's You've been tested. I've been tethering. People will test you.
Speaker 1: Do you really believe this? How much do you believe this?
Speaker 1: How much are you willing to stand by the thing
Speaker 1: that you said that's controversial with the thing that you
Speaker 1: said that not everyone agrees with. Um, it's tough. You
Speaker 1: talk about being close to brands. I'm close to brands.
Speaker 1: We have people that help fund what we do or
Speaker 1: part of what we do, and it's hard to challenge
Speaker 1: cultural norms in that in that over branded environment. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And and I want to clarify, I don't I don't
Speaker 1: mean that every single person needs to do this. I
Speaker 1: think that, uh, that there are always going to be
Speaker 1: you know, individuals who choose to be the mouthpiece or
Speaker 1: the vagabonds or whatever it is. That this isn't like, oh,
Speaker 1: everybody needs to become better. It's more about an awareness
Speaker 1: of the need for it. Right. And I know that
Speaker 1: not everybody is gonna agree with what I say or
Speaker 1: that is going to support modern huntsmen. And it doesn't
Speaker 1: matter what I say or what I do. There's gonna
Speaker 1: be some people who just hardline in the sand against
Speaker 1: it for whatever reason, and that's fine. I would just
Speaker 1: hope that they would have the ability to understand what
Speaker 1: we're trying to accomplish, and in the same way that
Speaker 1: the diplomats and conservationists and statesmen before us had a
Speaker 1: sense of of classy competition, you know, to just I
Speaker 1: couldn't respectfully disagree, right instead of drag it through the
Speaker 1: mud or or debase it for for some reason that
Speaker 1: isn't true. Um, And that's still gonna happen, right, Um.
Speaker 1: But you know, situations like this to be able to,
Speaker 1: for the first time ever, actually talk about this with you, um,
Speaker 1: about what what it? Why? Yeah? I mean, and I'm
Speaker 1: it's like I always beat this drum a lot. But
Speaker 1: I feel like the reason that that this is interesting
Speaker 1: to me, and the reason hunting and supporting ethics are
Speaker 1: interesting to me, and the reason that conservation other than
Speaker 1: it's tangible benefits. Is interesting to me is because as
Speaker 1: a practice, it's always shifting and moving and growing. Ecology
Speaker 1: is that way. Ecosystems are that way. The outside world
Speaker 1: is that way, always moving, shifting, growing, changing. You always
Speaker 1: have to react to what's happening. You can't always manage
Speaker 1: wildlife in the way that you've always managed wildlife, and
Speaker 1: you can't always talk about hunting the way you've always
Speaker 1: talked about hunting and then and you can't always practice
Speaker 1: ethical boundary like place your ethical boundaries in the same places.
Speaker 1: You have to move and shift them around based on
Speaker 1: you know, your personal experiences in your situation. So that's
Speaker 1: why they're there. Is it's endlessly interesting to me. It
Speaker 1: may it may never come to a conclusion, likely will never,
Speaker 1: but that's the that's that's what hunting is, honey. Is
Speaker 1: this this tangible activity that is always moving and always
Speaker 1: changed within who we are, what we do, our humanity.
Speaker 1: For Christ's sakes. That may be overstating it, I mean
Speaker 1: it is. That's how I feel about it. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: and it's funny because I I always I had this realization.
Speaker 1: I think it was maybe two thousand and eight, two
Speaker 1: thousand nine. I had just come back from Pakistan where
Speaker 1: where we were it was a shock game. We were
Speaker 1: filming the Ibex Hunt up there, and UM we stayed.
Speaker 1: I stayed for an additional three weeks. I'm gonna tell
Speaker 1: a site story and I'll come back to that with
Speaker 1: Corey's brother Buck Milton, who side note leak got noodling
Speaker 1: legalized in the state of Texas, and we stayed in
Speaker 1: Pakistan for another three weeks. One of the most to
Speaker 1: play amazing places I've ever been. Um. And we we
Speaker 1: had a little guide who took us around and saw
Speaker 1: museums and went hunting, and we had grown beards out
Speaker 1: and we were wearing the Shalwar kimies just to try
Speaker 1: to blend in a little bit. And Um we were
Speaker 1: in Lahore, which is I believe, the capital, and um
Speaker 1: Brady and I will Buck and I were driving around
Speaker 1: and we were in like a Toyota cambri So and
Speaker 1: it was clean and it wasn't dented up, so it's
Speaker 1: a pretty nice car for their and this guide is
Speaker 1: driving us and we're going down this road and there's
Speaker 1: like donkeys jumping on cars and just madness, and this
Speaker 1: cop car just comes screaming up next to us, runs
Speaker 1: us off the road, screaming pointed to get out of
Speaker 1: the car, aims his gun at my head, you know,
Speaker 1: shouting at me and Urdu and u and we uh,
Speaker 1: we had no idea what was going on. And uh
Speaker 1: it turns out there had been a terrorist attack. And
Speaker 1: I fit the description of one of the terrorists. Remember
Speaker 1: that famous national geographic picture of the girl, the Afghani girl,
Speaker 1: She's Patan, which is a re in Pakistan. Um. That
Speaker 1: just so happened that these gunmen were from there, and
Speaker 1: so I literally it was a green eyed, dark haired,
Speaker 1: got light skinned guy. So I almost got gunned down
Speaker 1: on the side of the road in Pakistan and um
Speaker 1: and and after that, you know, we showed them our
Speaker 1: passports are like, oh hey, oh friendly at this point.
Speaker 1: So uh. And then I went home and I when
Speaker 1: I would try to tell this story, or actually I
Speaker 1: don't even think I ever told my mom that's that story.
Speaker 1: But when I try to tell any story or have
Speaker 1: a conversation, I think about my small town Texas mother.
Speaker 1: How do I tell the story in a way that
Speaker 1: she will take something away from it right, that she
Speaker 1: can understand it, that can't be so in the weeds
Speaker 1: and and you know, jargon and big words and and
Speaker 1: based on individual experience only that it's got to be
Speaker 1: something that you know. And I and I need to
Speaker 1: I say this every time. I need to look up
Speaker 1: whose quote this actually was. But it was one of
Speaker 1: the classics, right, Galileo, Aristotle, somebody, somebody real, and they said,
Speaker 1: what good is wisdom if the common man can't understand it? Right?
Speaker 1: And so I think that's kind of the goal, is
Speaker 1: to present what are otherwise perceived to be pretty controversial
Speaker 1: or complex topics in a way that not only the
Speaker 1: common person can understand from a storytelling point, but also
Speaker 1: somebody who has zero access, were very limited access to
Speaker 1: a background in hunting, you know, the way of a
Speaker 1: segment on the show called Damn Near Died. I was
Speaker 1: gonna ask you later on about it, but I feel
Speaker 1: like you've given yeah, like three of them. I've there's
Speaker 1: been a lot. Actually there was one that happened two
Speaker 1: days ago. Okay, this this one's gonna be sponsored by
Speaker 1: federal premium. You possibly apply to the other three with
Speaker 1: this one, we're going to controversial. It's sponsored by federal premium.
Speaker 1: But we'll see, so they'll like. I was in Yellowstone
Speaker 1: and I was fishing with a buddy, UM on Sunday,
Speaker 1: so a couple of days ago, and he left, he
Speaker 1: went back to Bozeman, and I was taking my time, UM,
Speaker 1: coming up from the West Entrance, up towards Gardner and
Speaker 1: past the Norris geyser basins, and UM, I wanted to
Speaker 1: stop somewhere and just kind of get out and enjoy myself.
Speaker 1: So I stopped. I saw this like nondescript pull out
Speaker 1: with no trail head pulled out and I could see
Speaker 1: some steam coming from down there. I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's kind of cool. I've never been down the I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go check it out. So I get my binos,
Speaker 1: get the bear spray, get some water, go down there,
Speaker 1: and UM, it's this really cool, open, scalded white area
Speaker 1: with steam coming up everywhere. And I was like, I
Speaker 1: don't want to fall into a volcano. I'm gonna stay
Speaker 1: close to the tree line. So I follow the tree line.
Speaker 1: I go down there for twenty minutes, thirty minutes, kind
Speaker 1: of explore, find this huge pool that's like spring fed. Like, okay,
Speaker 1: I should probably start going back, So I come back
Speaker 1: and in the same way that you can sense when
Speaker 1: a lion is close, Like, all of a sudden, I
Speaker 1: could feel that there was a bear like right there,
Speaker 1: and I froze and like grab the bear spray and
Speaker 1: hurt them right And I kind of started to sneak
Speaker 1: towards the direction I thought was the opposite way, and
Speaker 1: then I see another pair of tracks right there, and
Speaker 1: I go a little bit further and I see two
Speaker 1: more pairs of tracks. There was four bears. And I
Speaker 1: was like, well, you know, I mean, I just got
Speaker 1: goose bumps again, and uh, and I was, you know,
Speaker 1: on high alert. I started kind of kicking rocks and
Speaker 1: trying to make a little bit of noise um and
Speaker 1: just I didn't run, but just started to briskly move
Speaker 1: towards my truck. And I get up the hill and
Speaker 1: I get back to my truck and this park ranger
Speaker 1: comes driving up slams on his breaks, like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: is this your tacoma? I was like yeah. He's like,
Speaker 1: thank God, you're alive. I'm like, what are you talking about.
Speaker 1: He's like, we just chased this super aggressive female and
Speaker 1: her three cubs off the road down to exactly where
Speaker 1: you were and so probably with him thirty seconds this
Speaker 1: like piste off female and her three cubs came running
Speaker 1: through there and I missed the tracks by like this much. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they would have just kept running with you in the
Speaker 1: in their mouth probably, and so he was and then
Speaker 1: he kind of made light of it, you know, but yeah,
Speaker 1: pretty much and your body. So yeah, that was a
Speaker 1: that was an exciting end to the Yellowstone Trip on Sunday.
Speaker 1: Well good, you got but like four damn near dies
Speaker 1: in one podcast. Then we've there's more if you need
Speaker 1: him sometimes yeah, well maybe yeah, maybe I'll have you
Speaker 1: called others like seed danger ship that you've done to them.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean I think all this man, all
Speaker 1: this conversation for me, I can I can get repetitive
Speaker 1: for me. So it's nice to have you come here
Speaker 1: and just kind of explain what your mission is, what
Speaker 1: the purpose of Moner huntsman is, and your your vision
Speaker 1: for it. Because I've been I've been in journalism for
Speaker 1: you know, to eleven years something like that. Um, I
Speaker 1: think every print writer, every creative that puts together media
Speaker 1: would take a look at modern hunts and be like
Speaker 1: this is good, Like it's it's good for a lot
Speaker 1: of reasons. It's quality paper, it's good photography, it's all
Speaker 1: thought out. It's a diverse um and and not only
Speaker 1: in its subject matter, but in its personalities and then
Speaker 1: the characters within it. So you know, that's what I think,
Speaker 1: and I thought that since the beginning, and so kudos
Speaker 1: for that. I think it stands out in that way
Speaker 1: above a lot of things that are done in its
Speaker 1: own way. So and it's and it's got its own personality,
Speaker 1: like it's got its own function within the world. It's
Speaker 1: clear to me. Um, So thanks for that. I think
Speaker 1: there's no bad effort, there's no there's it's a net
Speaker 1: positive no matter how it chakes out well, you know,
Speaker 1: and it's one of those things where we're gonna stumble
Speaker 1: or and it you know how high the stakes are, right,
Speaker 1: So it's so difficult to move forward in you know,
Speaker 1: the way that you feel like it's the right way,
Speaker 1: because if you say the wrong thing, you do the
Speaker 1: wrong thing a lot of times, a lot of cases,
Speaker 1: you can't take it back right or it could be
Speaker 1: the end. And uh, and so it is, you know,
Speaker 1: the stakes feel very high. And uh. And I remember
Speaker 1: trying to explain to my mom, and she was like, Tyler,
Speaker 1: She's like, it sounds like you're just having head first
Speaker 1: into controversy. Your mom's your mom's Texas was like pretty
Speaker 1: pretty much. Actually your thank you for pointing that out.
Speaker 1: What's wrong with you? Tyler? Come on? Actually, side note,
Speaker 1: My first name is actually William. I go by William Tyler,
Speaker 1: and which was a pain in the ass growing up
Speaker 1: because you you know, you get called in elementary school
Speaker 1: and they're like WILLIAMS Sharpe. I'd have to say here,
Speaker 1: but I go by Tyler and then all the kids
Speaker 1: make fun of you. Straight up. I asked her about
Speaker 1: five years ago, why did you name me William Tyler
Speaker 1: and decided to go by my middle name, and her
Speaker 1: straight answer she goes, well, I nine you William Tyler
Speaker 1: because I hope when you grew up we call you
Speaker 1: Billy T. So if modern Huntsman crashes and burns and
Speaker 1: I failed, you see this, I'm going to become an
Speaker 1: outlaw country singer named Billy. So look out, we look
Speaker 1: at release. Look actually, please don't look out, because that
Speaker 1: would be a bad sign, would be terrible. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: want to look at some of the people that are
Speaker 1: in volume three Wins Volume three come out, so it
Speaker 1: should be shipping hopefully next week. By the time you
Speaker 1: hear this will be out in the world. So um
Speaker 1: go go pick it up. You got this is this
Speaker 1: is to to your credit. You have due perfect people
Speaker 1: tell people who do perfect. So they are five just
Speaker 1: friends from Texas who started making trick shot videos in
Speaker 1: their backyard. And I didn't know this, but the first
Speaker 1: YouTube video they ever posted, Good Morning America called them
Speaker 1: the next day and since then they have become They
Speaker 1: fluctuated between number one and number two YouTube channel in
Speaker 1: the world. They got a show on like what Nickelodeon
Speaker 1: they did, They have a partnership with bass pro and
Speaker 1: all that. But I think they have about forty million.
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's more by the time we've done the interview.
Speaker 1: But they're big hunters and so they have struggled with
Speaker 1: being able to communicate about their hunting. They they realized
Speaker 1: that dude perfects that channel. People aren't going to that
Speaker 1: channel to learn about hunting, but on their personal social media. Um.
Speaker 1: So it was a cool conversation to hear about. You know,
Speaker 1: what their plans are and what ways they see being
Speaker 1: able to use their platform to help further this mission.
Speaker 1: And and and they're, you know, very much aware of
Speaker 1: the importance of tone and in their own content. So yeah,
Speaker 1: and they do. They're all texts boys, or at least
Speaker 1: some of them are, right. Yeah, no, I think they
Speaker 1: all are. You have our buddy Jesse Griffiths in here. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Jesse's great, and it was cool to give him a
Speaker 1: platform to talk about his hog obsession and he's talked
Speaker 1: about it on this podcast. Yeah. I could listen to
Speaker 1: him talk about Yea, he has a forthcoming. Uh, it's
Speaker 1: like a cookbook. It's like it's a second So it's
Speaker 1: a sequel to a Field and I think it. I
Speaker 1: don't know if it has the same name, but it's
Speaker 1: much more focused on Hawks. That's all I told. He
Speaker 1: explained it to me. This is I'm doing a book
Speaker 1: about Farrell Hawks. Yeah, which is awesome. I am. You
Speaker 1: have Simon Roosevelt, Yeah, yeah, talk about I don't think
Speaker 1: a lot of people know who Simon is. Talking about
Speaker 1: your relations he's kind of a dark course. Um So,
Speaker 1: Simon is the great great grandson of tr And I
Speaker 1: met Simon at Dal Safari Club probably five years ago,
Speaker 1: and um I remember he was he's working on a
Speaker 1: book currently. I believe Andy Anderson shooting the book, and
Speaker 1: it's about hunting's role in conservation in North America broken
Speaker 1: into different regions and uh and and I was having
Speaker 1: a conversation with him at Michelle Montiaka's booth, my friend
Speaker 1: from Tanzania. I had no idea who he was. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, well, I'd love to contribute to the
Speaker 1: book if you're looking traditional photos. And he's like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: He gave me his card and walked away. And I
Speaker 1: look at the card and it says from the office
Speaker 1: of Simon Roosevelt and Alison Rockefeller. And I was like,
Speaker 1: holy shit. And I look over and Michelle is like,
Speaker 1: you have some luck, my friend. So anyways, I ended
Speaker 1: up going on a couple hunts with him, photographing, and
Speaker 1: this was way before we launched Modern Huntsman. So from
Speaker 1: the beginning he's been my main advisor and uh in
Speaker 1: terms of understanding the landscape and the history. And Simon,
Speaker 1: you know, is old enough that he's you know, been
Speaker 1: part of that, but he thinks much more progressively. And
Speaker 1: so when he saw what we were doing, he said,
Speaker 1: I really believe that this is something that could work.
Speaker 1: I would like to do whatever I can to help you.
Speaker 1: And so he's been very instrumental in helping me introduce
Speaker 1: introduced me to people, but then also give me feedback
Speaker 1: often which is very harsh about you know, what we're doing.
Speaker 1: And so um, yeah, he's been invaluable. And uh, you
Speaker 1: know he he wrote a pretty strong piece in this one.
Speaker 1: He goes for the throat. I mean, he he goes
Speaker 1: into the long range and the can hunting and all
Speaker 1: of that. I mean he does, he throws down. It's
Speaker 1: called defining modern hunting. So we'll look forward to that.
Speaker 1: And yeah, when you get in there, that's awesome. Man. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I said, you have guys like Max Low in here.
Speaker 1: I think that's a huge deal. Chris Burkhard and here
Speaker 1: explain who Chris is. Chris. Yeah, Chris is a pretty
Speaker 1: famous or prolific outdoor photographer. Does a lot of work
Speaker 1: for you know, surf surf brands and and ari I
Speaker 1: and and uh Patagonia and and I think he has
Speaker 1: three millions something Instagram followers, uh and uh. And Charles
Speaker 1: is a good friend of his and and so he's
Speaker 1: one of those guys. I believe he's a vegetarian and
Speaker 1: he definitely doesn't hunt, but he believes that, you know,
Speaker 1: preserving wild places and things are more important than whether
Speaker 1: you're holding a rod or a rock climbing rope. So
Speaker 1: he's can he's you know, agreed to be a contributor
Speaker 1: of the last two issues and um, you know, help
Speaker 1: us promote in a little bit of way, which which
Speaker 1: is amazing. Um. And so they had a story about
Speaker 1: their work in Iceland and it's a it's a really
Speaker 1: cool story about how Iceland was the number one geothermal
Speaker 1: or no, they were using hydro dams from these glacial
Speaker 1: rivers for aluminum production and then that massive and I
Speaker 1: cannot pronounce the name of the volcano the eruption and
Speaker 1: like what was that two thousand fourteen or whatever massive
Speaker 1: volcanic eruption that disrupted like of the world's air traffic,
Speaker 1: and that at that point they shifted. Um. There, that's
Speaker 1: when tourism started to become big and people wanted to
Speaker 1: come see these amazing places and that success. So now
Speaker 1: that's the number one resource in Iceland, is tourism. So
Speaker 1: that country realized, you know what, maybe we should destroy
Speaker 1: our glacial rivers by doing aluminum production that we should
Speaker 1: support it. And so they're about to put in place
Speaker 1: an ordinance that would make of the island at National
Speaker 1: Park and and so that's kind of what Chris is
Speaker 1: bringing attention to. And um, and then you know, we've
Speaker 1: got Gunar from Iceland who's a traditional Icelandic Arctic fox hunter. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's let's this guy. I love this many many reasons
Speaker 1: because if you just posted the picture of this feller,
Speaker 1: he looks straight out of the show Vikings. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: also I think there's like there's hipsters that might also
Speaker 1: dress like this. So if you look at this, you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: look at this guy. What a loser. But then you
Speaker 1: started to read about it, like this could could this heat?
Speaker 1: This is a man he ang men. So he's a
Speaker 1: I can't remember, third or fourth generation Icelandic Arctic fox hunter.
Speaker 1: So his grandfather taught him how to hunt. And he's
Speaker 1: got this massive red beard and he wars. The knit
Speaker 1: sweaters and this heal for boots and this is this
Speaker 1: is real. This isn't like a fashion show. And he
Speaker 1: wrote this amazing story is my definitely my favorite one
Speaker 1: in the issue about the history of when the Vikings
Speaker 1: first landed in Iceland, they had to compete with the
Speaker 1: Arctic fox with the same food source, and so over time,
Speaker 1: you know, and a lot of it has to do
Speaker 1: with the eider eider birds right at which are endangered
Speaker 1: and or that they were praying on the livestock, which
Speaker 1: in Iceland like if you don't have your live stock
Speaker 1: in the winter, you're done for. And that has evolved
Speaker 1: over time to a government sponsored fox management program. So
Speaker 1: he is professionally hired by the Icelandic government. He gets
Speaker 1: paid per tale to protect these eider birds settlements. So
Speaker 1: he literally camps out and snipes these foxes to keep
Speaker 1: the balance of wildlife. And you know, it's something that's
Speaker 1: controversial because people love Arctic foxes, but if you go
Speaker 1: to Sweden and Norway, the Arctic fox is endangered because
Speaker 1: the red fox praise on those. So he goes over
Speaker 1: there and shoots red foxes. So he's got this like
Speaker 1: amazing relationship and and the the detail and the the
Speaker 1: depth of the relationship that he has with the landscape
Speaker 1: and the animals is unbelievable. And it's like you talk
Speaker 1: about a guy coming from the land and living a
Speaker 1: life of the land. It's not any better than this,
Speaker 1: and and and he's a he's intelligent, he's articulate, he's
Speaker 1: a talented photographer. His wife's a hunter. They're already teaching
Speaker 1: their daughter about the ways of their life. And this
Speaker 1: is one of those things where it's it's tied up
Speaker 1: in the cultural tradition exactly that you know, it's sometimes clear.
Speaker 1: And I enjoy those folks the most, you know, and
Speaker 1: I've run into them, had him some on this show
Speaker 1: that hunting is they just emote this cultural sensitivity to
Speaker 1: who they are, what they do hunting is that du
Speaker 1: Sean talks about that about his native country. Um, other
Speaker 1: folks like Wyman Men'ser and and Charles Rowdy and people
Speaker 1: have been on this show that that have They just
Speaker 1: it just comes out of them. They breathe it. It
Speaker 1: is them. And so because it is them, it's part
Speaker 1: of the culture that they came up in and that
Speaker 1: can be powerful. And I'm sure this can't wait to
Speaker 1: read it. I'm sure it's powerful as well. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: an interesting guy. Should you should you should have him
Speaker 1: on sometime? Yeah, hook me up. Yeah, I'd love to
Speaker 1: talk about dude. Yeah, Well, thank you, Tyler, Um and
Speaker 1: go go look at Modern hunts and volume three. There
Speaker 1: are two other volumes that are I'm sure still available
Speaker 1: and um, Like I said, I appreciate, appreciate your honesty
Speaker 1: and your openness about what you do and what you
Speaker 1: feel about your mission with this book, I think it's admirable. Well,
Speaker 1: thanks Ben, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on here.
Speaker 1: All brother cheers. I guess I grew up on an
Speaker 1: all day. That's it. That's all episode number sixty eight
Speaker 1: in the books. It was a good one. It's always
Speaker 1: of this conversation We've had a lot on this podcast. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's really kind of the reason I started this podcast.
Speaker 1: How what's you know? What's our wife for hunting? How
Speaker 1: do we communicate that? Why? How do we talk about
Speaker 1: our motivations? How do we talk about the narrative to
Speaker 1: the to the broader public. It's it's something that will
Speaker 1: continue to talk about here. I try not to overdo it.
Speaker 1: In recent podcasts. We we have talked about a lot
Speaker 1: of varied subjects, which is always fun to return to
Speaker 1: this because it really is the thing that I think
Speaker 1: we could talk about forever. So thank you to Tyler Sharp.
Speaker 1: Go pick up Modern Huntsman. Volume three, Monor Huntsman dot
Speaker 1: Com and thank you to Anthon Kat my new boss.
Speaker 1: Hopefully he sticks around his family moves in Montana. You're
Speaker 1: gonna hear a lot from him in the coming weeks.
Speaker 1: What else do we got? What else? Oh? Um? Go
Speaker 1: to the Mediator store. You should do that all the time,
Speaker 1: every day that you can. There's a lot of stuff there.
Speaker 1: There is our I really want uh to highlight our
Speaker 1: new shirt relative and news has been out for about
Speaker 1: a month or so. Our Auto Leopold shirt. Uh, it's
Speaker 1: it says Aldo freaking Leopold on it, and it says
Speaker 1: that because he's a badass and he's one of the
Speaker 1: fathers of conservation. He's written some of the seminal works
Speaker 1: in our world. And you're gonna be walking around with
Speaker 1: the illustrated picture of Aldo on your shirt. People are
Speaker 1: gonna ask you who's that and you're gonna get to
Speaker 1: tell him. So you're gonna be a messenger for that
Speaker 1: man in his great works that have inspired all of us.
Speaker 1: So go to the Mediator dot com, click on the
Speaker 1: shop and then go find that t And there's some
Speaker 1: other stuff there. There's Hunting Collective, Vietti Tumbler. There is
Speaker 1: the pro Nuance Anti Bullshit t shirts. There are some
Speaker 1: other logoed hoodies and hats and things like that there
Speaker 1: that I think are pretty cool. I hope you go
Speaker 1: check out and pick up and what else. There's other
Speaker 1: stuff with this store. You're always gonna want to go
Speaker 1: there and check those things out. But I also want
Speaker 1: to address before we get out of here, um, the
Speaker 1: great feedback we got on last week's episode number sixty
Speaker 1: seven on the Lama Laryns. The Lama Laryerons are a
Speaker 1: subsistence hunting tribe on a small line in Indonesia. I've
Speaker 1: I've got dozens of emails here from people that really
Speaker 1: liked that episode and really like about Clark. A lot
Speaker 1: of you had questions about his experience. I've sent some
Speaker 1: of those over to Doug and hopefully he can get
Speaker 1: back to us and we'll cover that on future podcasts
Speaker 1: or I'll just email you guys back and with his answers.
Speaker 1: So thanks for listening to that episode. We're gonna leave
Speaker 1: you on this episode numb leave you with some listener
Speaker 1: feedback and then old number seven, So enjoy see you
Speaker 1: next time. Bye. Hey, this is Andrew just calling to
Speaker 1: give some of my feedback. Um, first off, I loved
Speaker 1: the interview with Charles Rodney. Um, such a cool guy,
Speaker 1: such a cool story. I love small game hunting. I
Speaker 1: loved seeing different types of people and um, how they
Speaker 1: hunt and what they do and what their heritage is.
Speaker 1: I mean, UM, it's just so cool to see something
Speaker 1: varying from the status quo and to see like an
Speaker 1: alternative version of of American history heritage hunting. So that
Speaker 1: was a real treat and I felt like I was
Speaker 1: there with you guys, and what a great interview, So
Speaker 1: thank you for doing that. Um. In in junction with
Speaker 1: that interview, you guys were talking about people of color
Speaker 1: in the hunting world and how there aren't a lot
Speaker 1: of them and how uh we want more and and
Speaker 1: you also sort of tiptoed around it while you're doing
Speaker 1: it because people had such adverse reactions to it, and UM,
Speaker 1: I think maybe we could investigate a little bit why
Speaker 1: why do people have such knee jerk reaction to the
Speaker 1: mere mention of people of color in the hunting and
Speaker 1: how there you know, I mean, anyone with two eyes
Speaker 1: can see what the hunting world is. Come on, it's
Speaker 1: white men, you know, and and why is that it hasn't?
Speaker 1: You know, white men didn't invent hunting? Um, so why
Speaker 1: don't people of color have access? Or why aren't they
Speaker 1: welcomed into spaces? Um? You know, why don't they have
Speaker 1: as rich of a heritage of hunting as you know,
Speaker 1: the average white man? Might? You know? Um? I think
Speaker 1: it's it's something to investigate, and I think just the
Speaker 1: emotions behind it are something to investigate. It would encourage
Speaker 1: people to ask themselves why doesn't make them mad? You know? Uh? Why? Why? Why? Why?
Speaker 1: I'm really truly baffled and shocked and honestly appalled. They say,
Speaker 1: don't read the comment section, and I honestly wish I
Speaker 1: wouldn't have had read it. But what's done is done,
Speaker 1: so I'd love to hear more about it. Thanks by
Speaker 1: hey man. This is Nate Schnick from Western Minnesota calling
Speaker 1: it yea. I just want to tell you how much
Speaker 1: I appreciate your podcasts, really appreciating all the turkey content
Speaker 1: that you put out this spring. I am an adult
Speaker 1: onset turkey hunter. I've been hunting a lot of other stuff,
Speaker 1: mostly white tailed years, since I was a kid. This
Speaker 1: is with my first spring, turkey hunting went out with
Speaker 1: the d n R program and n wtf kind of
Speaker 1: joint program. Uh got a bird within thirty minutes of
Speaker 1: getting out my first morning and was able to get
Speaker 1: a really nice time and I am hooked. Yeah, keep
Speaker 1: up the good work, keep it rolling. I wouldn't be
Speaker 1: a post and more turky talk during the summer. Thanks man,
Speaker 1: Thank you. Jack Daniels. Oh, I'm seven Tennessee. Who whiskey
Speaker 1: got me dragging in heaven and uh and just stopped.
Speaker 1: It looks good to me. They're gonna have to de
Speaker 1: bump into the far red. Oh, the far red. D
Speaker 1: farry d d he