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Speaker 1: Hey, it's the Hunting Collective. Welcome, We're an episode number

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Speaker 1: sixty eight is a good one today. I'm pretty excited

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Speaker 1: about this one. We've got an interview segment of the show.

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Speaker 1: We've got Tyler Sharp, the editor in chief of a magazine,

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Speaker 1: a really well done and thoughtful magazine called Modern Huntsmen,

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Speaker 1: and that we're got a lion attack story, some other

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Speaker 1: crazy African stories from Tyler, and we're talking went pretty

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Speaker 1: deep on redefining the narrative of hunting, which is one

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Speaker 1: of the missions of Minor Huntsmen. But before we do that,

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Speaker 1: we had our new editor in chief, Anthony Lakata, on

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Speaker 1: to talk about exactly that do we need to redefine

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Speaker 1: the hunting narrative? Who gets to do that? How do

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Speaker 1: we communicate that. It's a little bit of a complicated topic,

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Speaker 1: but it is a good thing to aspire to, but

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Speaker 1: it's a complicated thing to communicate, so we're gonna cover that.

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Speaker 1: We also started talking about not only hunting dick moves,

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Speaker 1: but office dick moves, and our our engineer Phil gave

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Speaker 1: a couple of really good ones, so you're never le's

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Speaker 1: stick around for that. Um. But before we get to

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Speaker 1: all of that. First Light has a really cool new

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Speaker 1: film out called ursus Idaho. It's a spot in stock

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Speaker 1: spring bear hunt. It's a really cool film. I just

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Speaker 1: got done watching it. Its first lights. Paul Peterson, he

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Speaker 1: drew one of the most covered in spring black bear

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Speaker 1: tags in the lower forty eight and Paul is he's

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Speaker 1: a former elk guide um and as a Wisconsin native.

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Speaker 1: Is his first bear hunt and it's pretty damn entertaining.

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Speaker 1: So go to first Light dot com and watch that

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Speaker 1: film ursus Idaho with Paul Peterson. It's pretty cool. I

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Speaker 1: like it. I think you will too. So without further ado,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna get to episode number sixty eight. Let's go.

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Speaker 1: I guess I grew up on in all the road

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Speaker 1: bet do the medal though, did what I've told until

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Speaker 1: I found out that my brand new clothes, the games

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Speaker 1: that can have from the rich kids next door, and

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Speaker 1: I grew up baths. I guess I grew up. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there are a thousand things inside of my head I

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Speaker 1: wish I ain't seen, and now I just wanted to

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Speaker 1: a real bad dream of being a like I'm coming

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Speaker 1: apart of the scenes, But thank you Jack Daniel seven Hey, everybody,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the Hunting Collective. Of course, have been O'Brien,

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Speaker 1: and you're gonna be hearing this podcast on July. Second.

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Speaker 1: We're in July. Placata feels like it. Sonny, it's Montana.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Montana, by the way, thank you. You're moving

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Speaker 1: here like the rest of us, meet eaters. I am.

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Speaker 1: I'm moving here in about a month, so I can't wait. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you have some young children that are excited to explore

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Speaker 1: all that Montana has to offer. Absolutely, took my kids

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Speaker 1: out fish and this weekend they came for a visit

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Speaker 1: check out the new hometown, and um, yeah, I just

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Speaker 1: want to get here while there's still lots to do

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Speaker 1: there very much until the smoke comes in August. Now

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Speaker 1: we're not supposed to people tell me. I'm not supposed

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Speaker 1: to talk so glowingly about Bozeman all the time. So

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Speaker 1: it's also very cold in the winter. It's snowed two

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Speaker 1: days before I got here earlier this week, so keep

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Speaker 1: that in mind. Yeah, I got pulled over by a

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Speaker 1: cop two months ago, so it's you know, there's some

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Speaker 1: bad things in Bozeman as well, So I just try

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Speaker 1: to try to make sure everybody understands. It can be

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Speaker 1: a terrible place. It's awful. It's awful. Don't come, you know,

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Speaker 1: like the ski resorts are crowded. Yellowstone, it's just buffalo

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Speaker 1: everywhere in the road even sometimes how do you even

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Speaker 1: drive through? You can't drop to these buffalo It's terrible. Hey, Phil,

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Speaker 1: Phil's back. I'm back. How much hate mail did you get? No? No, haymail? Phil, Um,

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Speaker 1: that's good. I was wondering if you got recognized anywhere

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Speaker 1: your voice, you know. Oh yeah, I think I was

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Speaker 1: just telling you beforehand. I was that was grocery shopping,

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Speaker 1: and um, you know, I just I I asked the cashier.

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Speaker 1: I told her I'd like some I like I'd like

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Speaker 1: plastic bags. And she said, oh, hold on a minute,

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Speaker 1: the hunting Collective. Yep, yep, of course she did. I said,

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Speaker 1: you know it, you know it, lady, I'm Phil, It's

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Speaker 1: Mr Taylor to you. Alright, perfect, Well, that means you

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Speaker 1: can stay on the show. That's it for you for

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Speaker 1: the day. Thanks for joining us. Um, we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: about I would call some heavy topics, as we always

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Speaker 1: try to do here on the show. Um, but I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out I was trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: a thing we would do. It's the off season. There's

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Speaker 1: no hunting going on, so we can't tell hunting stories,

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Speaker 1: so it leaves a lot of dead air. Absolutely, I

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Speaker 1: can't tell fishing stories. They're boring. We just be like

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Speaker 1: we were fishing and then we caught it fish that

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Speaker 1: it's pretty much the whole story, So we can't tell

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Speaker 1: fishing stories. I'm trying to figure out like a thing

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Speaker 1: that I can do, like top bullets, top hunters of

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Speaker 1: all time, to get everybody interested in debating about things,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not. It's been a long week and I

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Speaker 1: have no idea. I was gonna plan something. I don't

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Speaker 1: have anything. Yeah, did you come up with in the

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Speaker 1: four minutes since you asked me to think about it? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Uh no, Right, it's uh, this is a kind of

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Speaker 1: thing that's real hard to rank, but it's fun, right,

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Speaker 1: it's fun to think about that stuff. I mean, uh,

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Speaker 1: that's part of the fun of arguing about it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I have my like top stuff. I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: top things I love to do. Whether they're what you

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Speaker 1: love to do, I don't really care. They're might top things.

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Speaker 1: I think they're the best Oh, that's the top reasons

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Speaker 1: why my things are better than you're right. Maybe top podcasts.

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Speaker 1: I can think of five really good ones. They're all

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Speaker 1: they're all on the Mediator Network. It's weird that they're

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Speaker 1: all the best. It's fine. So anybody right into t

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Speaker 1: ac it's meted dot com and help me out. I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to them up with some real catchy things to

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Speaker 1: ways to rank and debate about pretty inane topics over

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Speaker 1: the summer when we're board, So please right in and

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Speaker 1: give us some ideas. I was gonna have. I was

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Speaker 1: gonna whip out some real cool thing, but I just

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Speaker 1: I couldn't think of anything. So I apologize. When you

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Speaker 1: are stump, that's the thing. Make your audience do the

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Speaker 1: work for you. That's right, exactly what it's called being

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Speaker 1: resourceful people. And this is a weekly show. Sometimes I

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Speaker 1: get tired, Okay, So thank your t HD at the

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Speaker 1: meter dot com. Please please, um, we're gonna get We're

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Speaker 1: gonna start this conversation off. We have an interview. In

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Speaker 1: the interview portion of the show, we have Tyler Sharp,

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Speaker 1: who is the well dressed editor in chief of Modern Huntsman.

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Speaker 1: Modern Huntsman is a glossy yah, wonderfully put together Hunting Magazine,

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Speaker 1: which I believe is in its third volume, and that

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Speaker 1: volume is on wildlife management. It should be out by now.

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Speaker 1: You should be able to go pick it up. What

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Speaker 1: makes it interesting is that it's stated mission is to

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Speaker 1: redefine the hunting narrative. Now, boy, that's a that's a

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Speaker 1: tall task. Why not set your sights high? I say,

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Speaker 1: big ambition, big ambition. I once maybe thought that I

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Speaker 1: could be the one. Since i've I've thought better of it.

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Speaker 1: Try to be funnier, maybe the feels so we're gonna

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Speaker 1: we're gonna get into that. But we had a gentleman

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Speaker 1: right in, and always the people that right in have

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Speaker 1: um hard to pronounce last names, so that's upsets me.

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Speaker 1: But this fellow's name is Andy d Russo, sorry if

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Speaker 1: I mispronounced that Andy, But he wrote in he said,

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Speaker 1: you asked for some feedback, and here I am giving

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Speaker 1: it to you. I hope you Ben will continue to

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Speaker 1: interview people from the industry, even in different views from

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Speaker 1: yourself and your style, Folks like Michael Waddell, Ted Nugent,

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Speaker 1: Chuck Adams, Fred Eichler, so on and so forth. I've

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Speaker 1: had fred Iichler on, So go back and listen to

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Speaker 1: that one, But the other ones would be interesting. More

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Speaker 1: of these story is and these amazing people that have

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Speaker 1: different perspectives and different ways of looking at hunting in

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Speaker 1: the industry would be interesting. And Andy's from Rogers, Arkansas. Um, yeah, man,

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Speaker 1: I'm into that idea. Yeah, absolutely, that's what it's all about.

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Speaker 1: I mean, different perspectives. That's one of the cool things

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Speaker 1: about what we do. Um, the way I do it

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Speaker 1: and was raised to do it and do it where

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Speaker 1: I'm from is different from someone else's experience. That's right.

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Speaker 1: And that's what That's why I name this thing the

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Speaker 1: hunting collective, because I'm like, well, if we can if

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Speaker 1: we can somehow learn the collective perspectives and understand different

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Speaker 1: parts of our community, why people think the way they do,

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Speaker 1: and why they act the way they do, and why

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Speaker 1: they value what they value, then maybe we can be

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Speaker 1: better at thinking about hunting and analyzing the way we

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Speaker 1: do things. So thank you frightning, Andy. And that's a

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Speaker 1: good bridge to the topic of of modern huntsmen and

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Speaker 1: the stated purpose of redefining the hunting narrative. And at

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Speaker 1: first we could just say Look, how do you feel

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Speaker 1: like we need to redefine the hunting narrative. I'm not

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Speaker 1: even sure what that means exactly. Um, you know, is

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Speaker 1: there a hunting narrative that we all agree on? Um?

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Speaker 1: You know, does that mean really what we do or

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Speaker 1: or how we explain it to people? I'm not quite

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Speaker 1: sure what that means. Yeah, And and Tyler explains it

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Speaker 1: um from his perspective and explains it well. But I

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Speaker 1: think that from his perspective, the narrative is the narrative

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Speaker 1: that's being imposed on our community rather than the narrative

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Speaker 1: that we've created. Right, So the narrative being imposed on

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Speaker 1: our community has to do with trophy hunting, It has

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Speaker 1: to do um with murdering animals, like the negative stereotypical

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Speaker 1: things that are applied to hunting. That's what he's talking about.

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Speaker 1: That's redefining that narrative, but also redefining what hunting means

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Speaker 1: inside the community. It kind of shined the spotlight around

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Speaker 1: and seeing what's there, right, saying, oh, what's over there?

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Speaker 1: There's a guy doing something that I don't like personally,

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Speaker 1: don't like and don't don't aspect. Is it my job

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Speaker 1: to call that person out or is it my job

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Speaker 1: to to do what I think is right and show

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Speaker 1: by example. So we we run into I've run into this,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you have in your career kind of run

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Speaker 1: into Steve's analogy, Ronella's analogy, which is shooting holes in

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Speaker 1: the boat. If somebody's in you're in the boat with somebody,

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Speaker 1: they're shooting holes in and you're certainly gonna make him

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Speaker 1: walk the plank. And so you have that analogy with

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Speaker 1: the other analogy is what makes you the judge and jury,

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Speaker 1: what makes you the person to raise your hand up

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Speaker 1: and say I'm right or I'm wrong, or this is

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Speaker 1: right or this is wrong. How how do we do that? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a really good point. It's, Um, I think it's obvious, right.

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Speaker 1: I think that's the shooting holes in the boat is

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Speaker 1: a very clear, a very smart way to think about it, right.

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Speaker 1: But it does get a little bit tricky when there's

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Speaker 1: some things that there are people who are never gonna

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Speaker 1: like the hunting narrative. No matter what we do, we

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Speaker 1: could do it in a way that, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: we think is the best possible narrative for us, people

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Speaker 1: are still going to hate it. Um, that's not to

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Speaker 1: say that we shouldn't you know, care about that narrative.

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Speaker 1: We do. We all know that hunters are a very

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Speaker 1: small minority in this country and we need the public to,

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Speaker 1: if not support us, at least respect it and let

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Speaker 1: us do our thing. Um, you know, so that that's yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's embodied. We just had the super top secret content

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Speaker 1: project that we did yesterday, and it's a body in

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Speaker 1: the conversation around like where do we limit or how

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Speaker 1: do we limit our communication? And who can tell? Who

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Speaker 1: is the one to be able to say like don't

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Speaker 1: do that? And can we You know, I'm not a

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Speaker 1: big grip and grand guy anymore. I was at one time.

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Speaker 1: I am not now. Um, And I've said my piece

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Speaker 1: on why I think that's that needs to be the way.

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Speaker 1: But I think that argument just kind of embodies this conversation. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's right. It's it's a pretty tall order to to

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Speaker 1: for for someone or a small group of people to say, hey, this,

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Speaker 1: this is what the hunting narrative should be, this is

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Speaker 1: what it should look like to the outside world. Um,

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Speaker 1: as we said, as you said earlier, it's it's the

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Speaker 1: hunting collective, right. We all come from different backgrounds and um,

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Speaker 1: cheating holes in the boat should be pretty obvious. But

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Speaker 1: there's some things that, hey, it might not be my thing,

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Speaker 1: but um, if it's done in a way that um

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Speaker 1: is respectful to the resource, um uh, it's good for

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Speaker 1: the environment. You know, kind of embodies what hunting is

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Speaker 1: all about, even if it's not my thing. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Do we need to worry about what

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Speaker 1: someone else thinks about that? Yeah? Yeah, And and I

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Speaker 1: think it's a generational you know, Tyler and I are

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Speaker 1: about the same agement thirties, guys like it might just

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Speaker 1: be a generational thing. We feel the pressure, as you know,

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Speaker 1: as folks whose parents didn't have that same pressure, and

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Speaker 1: my dad didn't have the pressure of social media and

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Speaker 1: the pressure of like, how are people going to take

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Speaker 1: in this image that I've shared or this he didn't

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Speaker 1: Right there was the bagboard at the local gas station

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Speaker 1: and the act of his truck when he checked the

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Speaker 1: deer in and then I never saw it in the

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Speaker 1: garage before they cut it up and ate it. So

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Speaker 1: there just wasn't that pressure to continually think about how

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Speaker 1: we speak about hunting or at what we do, and

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Speaker 1: it can be a not I don't want to beat

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Speaker 1: people over the head of these ideas. But man, when

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Speaker 1: somebody like Tyler comes along and you'll hear in a

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Speaker 1: minute he says some things that, um, even for my taste,

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Speaker 1: was like, WHOA, alright, cool, I'm glad, Like that's pretty

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Speaker 1: blunt that, you know, to make an analogy of Like

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Speaker 1: you know, sometimes when you get older, you stay on

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Speaker 1: the porch and let somebody else figure out how to

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Speaker 1: go forward. Um, I mean, that's that's people. I know

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Speaker 1: people will get prickly about that. When I when I

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Speaker 1: heard him say it, I'm like, I know Tyler, know

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Speaker 1: him to be a good dude, So I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: he you know, he's making his point. He's making it

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Speaker 1: pretty firmly. Yeah, I mean, that's that's a pretty tough

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Speaker 1: thing to to say to people. Uh, you know who

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Speaker 1: have been there before, you have been doing this a

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Speaker 1: long time, who have um in one way or another

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Speaker 1: advanced hunting and been the backbone of it. To tell him, well,

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Speaker 1: your time has passed the way you did it, you

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Speaker 1: should just stay on the porch. Man. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I don't have I don't have the personal feelings I

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Speaker 1: feel like I could tell anybody that. In the mission

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Speaker 1: statement for for for Modern Huntcement, it says it's born

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Speaker 1: out of frustration with the way hunting is often misrepresented today.

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Speaker 1: This publication is told from the perspective hunting purists and

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Speaker 1: the and the diplomatically minded, unaltered by the excuse of

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Speaker 1: mainstream media, corporate interests, or misinformed emotional rants. I mean that, yeah,

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Speaker 1: what's your reaction, Uh, big ambition, ambition, it's you know,

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Speaker 1: look without knowing. Um, that kind of sets you up

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Speaker 1: to like you better have good arguments for for everything

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Speaker 1: you're saying, and what's right and what's wrong. I myself, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm pretty clear about what is good

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Speaker 1: for hunting and what is and and doing things in

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Speaker 1: an ethical, fair chase way and and always putting the

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Speaker 1: resource first, you know. But when I think about things

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Speaker 1: that how hunting is portrayed, um or if it looks

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Speaker 1: bad to the outside. UM, I feel a little uncomfortable

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Speaker 1: making that call for someone. I mean, if if somebody's

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Speaker 1: doing it the right way and someone takes it the

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Speaker 1: wrong way, I'm not sure that I want to tell

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Speaker 1: them not to do it. You know, my kids preschool,

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Speaker 1: they have this Uh yeah, I'm talking about my kids preschool,

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Speaker 1: right right, where's he going? Now? This is that's where

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Speaker 1: I get all my knowledge. Right. But they have this

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Speaker 1: thing where they say, don't yuck someone else's yum. Right,

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Speaker 1: some kid pulls out their lunch and some other kids like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's gross, and you know the kid's eating it and

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Speaker 1: he likes it. And I feel like that's kind of

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Speaker 1: a way I look at things. There's some things in

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Speaker 1: and hunting that aren't my cup of tea. Now I

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Speaker 1: don't like to do them, but they are good. You know,

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Speaker 1: they don't do anything bad. They don't shoot any holes

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Speaker 1: in the boat. And if it's something that gets people

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Speaker 1: outside and that they enjoy doing, even if it's not

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Speaker 1: my thing, I'm not gonna yuck their yum. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean you're gonna like that hashtag yuck my yum. I

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Speaker 1: hope that's not. That's not hashtag yet. No, I like that,

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Speaker 1: and I don't like I struggle with that all the time.

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Speaker 1: Like as a person, I'm not I don't getting people's business.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to getting somebody's business and tell them

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Speaker 1: how to better do the thing that they're doing. I'd

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Speaker 1: be like, trust that they've thought it through and either

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Speaker 1: will or won't find a better way to communicate if

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Speaker 1: that's the goal. I mean, I think it starts. It

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Speaker 1: starts with yourself, right, and I think maybe that that's

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Speaker 1: what they're trying to do with minor huntsmen, right, And

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Speaker 1: that's great. And if you're going to be the example

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Speaker 1: of how you think um hunting narrative should be to

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Speaker 1: the outside world, great, but you do that by being

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Speaker 1: an example and not necessarily by pushing other people back

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Speaker 1: up onto the porch or whatever. You kind of lead

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Speaker 1: the way. Yeah, right, Like I said, I mean, I don't,

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Speaker 1: this isn't this is no way down and like you'll

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Speaker 1: and you'll hear in the interview think the Mono Hunsban

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Speaker 1: magazine is fans. Yeah, I do too. I think it's

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Speaker 1: very good. It's so fantastic and well done, well written,

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Speaker 1: well photographed, well designed. It is it is well done. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's really great and I have nothing wrong. I

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Speaker 1: have no problem with that ambition right to do better.

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Speaker 1: So we're always trying to do better, and we should

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Speaker 1: as a community try to do better. It's just like

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Speaker 1: how do you the question? And this could be seen

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Speaker 1: as kind of frivolous. But the question is like, how

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Speaker 1: do you express that feeling? Like, Dude, I see some

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Speaker 1: ship I don't like. I see some things I'm not

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Speaker 1: real into. I think they're shooting holes in the boat.

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Speaker 1: What what is my role in fixing that? You know?

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Speaker 1: And so I think we all just take on different

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Speaker 1: versions of that. The way I try to take it

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Speaker 1: on is, as I said, kind of lead by example.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it my way. Um, I'm gonna tell

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Speaker 1: people this is why I do it, and this is

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Speaker 1: how I do it. I'm going to try to try

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Speaker 1: to change the narrative that way. And if that's how

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Speaker 1: they're doing it, I think that's that's the right approach. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And my my thing for sure is, um, just starting

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Speaker 1: the conversation. If I don't like something, I'm gonna go

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna run right over to it. I'm gonna stand

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Speaker 1: there and be like, who can I have a conversation

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Speaker 1: with about this thing? And I'm gonna ask some tough questions.

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Speaker 1: I'll probably um, my opinion will probably change over that time.

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Speaker 1: But the best way that I can think of to

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Speaker 1: both understand the perspective of somebody you don't agree with

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Speaker 1: and think might be shooting holes in the boat, but

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Speaker 1: also too, you know, to make sure that there are

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Speaker 1: any holes in your boat is to go over there

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Speaker 1: and be like, what are you doing with that gun?

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Speaker 1: Why is it pointing towards the whole I'm going to

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Speaker 1: shoot in the air? Um, just questioning like, what's the

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Speaker 1: motivation here? Why is it good? And I and then

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Speaker 1: I think the next episode of the podcast, for a

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Speaker 1: future episode will have a vegan philosopher on. That's gonna

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Speaker 1: be fun for everybody, hopefully. Um. And he asked me

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Speaker 1: about trophy hunting, and I just said, look, it's complicated.

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Speaker 1: He's like, what are you willing to say that all

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Speaker 1: trophy hunting is bad? I'm like, boy, no, it's complicated

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Speaker 1: like that. Am I Am I against all a holes? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Because because there he's just applying. All he was doing

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Speaker 1: was applying the word trophy hunting to somebody that he

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Speaker 1: didn't like. So if you say, Ben, are you against

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Speaker 1: all campers that litter yep? Right, yeah, sure, but that

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Speaker 1: has nothing to do with the overall like acceptance of

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Speaker 1: camping or putting a tent up somewhere and sitting out

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Speaker 1: in the first and the hot dog. It's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm if somebody just wants to cut the head off

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Speaker 1: a deer and take it home, and I guess yeah.

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Speaker 1: But the other point I made to him was why

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Speaker 1: it's even more complicated because our system of game laws

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Speaker 1: and are pretty much sets it up so that even

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Speaker 1: if the guy is an asshole, he is still doing

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Speaker 1: good for the resource. He can't help it. Even if

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Speaker 1: he's an a hole, even if he's all he wants

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Speaker 1: to do is shoot a deer, cut its head off,

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Speaker 1: take it home and show it to his friends, throwing

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Speaker 1: the garbage. He's paid into a system that are going

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Speaker 1: to make sure more deer are around. So we also

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Speaker 1: have that to fall back on, because we we we

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Speaker 1: we can't just kick out everybody we think might be

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Speaker 1: you know that guy. Absolutely, I mean trophy hunting. We

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Speaker 1: shouldn't even get into that because it's so complicated, right,

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Speaker 1: What does that mean? Because I like to kill big

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Speaker 1: deer and have some some nice European mounts on the wall,

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Speaker 1: that makes me a trophy hunter to this guy, probably,

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Speaker 1: But he I also feed on my family on venison,

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Speaker 1: and UM also feed um some good friend of mines

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Speaker 1: of vegetarian who only eats the meat I kill, So

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Speaker 1: I don't know that's technically vegetarian or not. But um,

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Speaker 1: you know, venison diplomacy is as Ronella says, but um,

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Speaker 1: you know to make that call is is pretty tough. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's how do you do that? What's it mean? This

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Speaker 1: goes well into an article that ran on the meat

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Speaker 1: eater dot com and this is way more insular, but

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Speaker 1: it still has a lot to do with how do

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Speaker 1: you call people out? It's called it is written by

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Speaker 1: one Stephen Ronell is called the biggest dick moves a

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Speaker 1: hunter can make. You should go read that over the

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Speaker 1: meter dot com if you have a quick five minutes.

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Speaker 1: It's a quick one. But he's got some examples here

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Speaker 1: spots stealing. I mean that's pretty obvious spotting, spot exposing,

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Speaker 1: which I do on this podcast all the time. That's

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Speaker 1: why I take a little bit of We have a

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Speaker 1: segment called hot spot, cool dude or gal, depending on

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Speaker 1: who's on the podcast, where I asked people to expose

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Speaker 1: their spots and it's selfish. Is that is that a

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Speaker 1: dick move? Are you? Um? Bringing more people into the

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Speaker 1: sport and more opportunity? Dude? That was deep. That's exactly

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Speaker 1: what we're talking about. It's just how you look at

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to be democratic, right, some people are mad

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Speaker 1: at me because I'm giving their spots away, right, it

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Speaker 1: will be selfish? Yeah? Am I gonna be selfish and

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Speaker 1: keep this spot to myself? Or if I I know

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Speaker 1: someone who's trying to get into hunting or needs to

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Speaker 1: get out and has nowhere to go, and I tell

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Speaker 1: him where to go? Um, you know, yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: what the point of Pisces where I would like to

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Speaker 1: bring Phil and Phil what do you think? Uh? You know,

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Speaker 1: I I'm not much of a hunting you know philosopher.

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Speaker 1: Okay something your job is to say something profound. Okay, great,

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Speaker 1: you hired the right guy. Anybody could be a hunting philosopher. Yeah,

421
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,160
Speaker 1: look at me, I I mean you you just said

422
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 1: what Anthony said with profound it does it bring more

423
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 1: people in and give them more opportunities. From where I stand,

424
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:20,199
Speaker 1: which is very far away from this, I'd say that

425
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 1: that's a good point of view. Thanks Phil. Thanks, I'll

426
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,440
Speaker 1: check back in with you a little bit later. Appreciate

427
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:32,720
Speaker 1: that we're gonna get Phil's getting I love you, Phil? Uh.

428
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:38,199
Speaker 1: Not cleaning game is one of Steve's dick moves. Oh yeah, yeah,

429
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,440
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah right, I'm want to change the title

430
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 1: this to Steve's obvious dick moves. No one should ever

431
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,679
Speaker 1: even do sleeping in another one. Oh if that's like

432
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 1: sleeping in, yes, I think he maybe is he arguing

433
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 1: for sleeping in? No, except I will say, Um, I

434
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 1: know Steve's talked about this. I've heard it. Um, I

435
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 1: don't sleep in when I tricked hunt because I feel

436
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 1: like I want to be there at you know, before

437
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 1: dawn obviously when the you first hear the birds off

438
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,920
Speaker 1: the roof, off the roost. But um, there was sometimes

439
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago where I could not hunt

440
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 1: first thing in the morning, so that some things that

441
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 1: had going on, and I killed more turkeys when I

442
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 1: started going at nine. As this is the truth. The

443
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,440
Speaker 1: truth about that is most turkeys are not getting killed

444
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,639
Speaker 1: off the roost like you. I've killed a few, but

445
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: I've killed the ball of them at nine o'clock after

446
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,400
Speaker 1: they've gotten off the roost, got settled where they want

447
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 1: to be, and then I can make a play or whatever.

448
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 1: But yeah, hunt them off the roost is a get,

449
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:34,640
Speaker 1: it's a game. But but it is cool to see

450
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 1: the tree and just like I'll just get up under

451
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:38,879
Speaker 1: the I know he's gonna fly over there and I'm

452
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:40,439
Speaker 1: not gonna kill him, but it's cool to hear him

453
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 1: in the truthy goblin And you know you can't sleep

454
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 1: in as a hunter. That's the only thing I can

455
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 1: really get up for. To be honest with you, I

456
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,880
Speaker 1: have a heart. Yeah, I'm wanna like if you're like, hey,

457
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: four am, oh, there's a soccer game on London, I'm like, no,

458
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not gonna I'm gonna hit the snooze

459
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 1: button kind of guy. Except when it comes to hunting fishing. Yes,

460
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,400
Speaker 1: I don't know. There's a couple other ones here. I

461
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 1: I know I got one, which is just saying like

462
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 1: I got this, I got this bird when you know

463
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 1: you probably don't have it. Yeah. I mean sometimes you

464
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 1: gotta throw a guy a bone when he's having a

465
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 1: bad day. Yeah you got it, especially especially a duck

466
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,360
Speaker 1: hunting when when two or three birds fall and he's

467
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 1: like I think I got one of those, Like yeah, bro, yeah,

468
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: A little pat on the back for guys, guy who

469
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 1: struggling a little bit, you did it for you See,

470
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 1: that's a non dick move by us brand new boots.

471
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and then complaining with no action, which we've

472
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,440
Speaker 1: kind of covered here, um a little bit. But those

473
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: are all Dick moves. You have any other dick mops? Um? Yeah,

474
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,160
Speaker 1: I think it's kind of a dick movie. Just bragg

475
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 1: right when you're when you're bragging about what you did. Look, man,

476
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 1: you have a great hunt. Whether that means you killed

477
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 1: a big deer or really got back in there and

478
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,680
Speaker 1: got it done. That's good for you and you should

479
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,239
Speaker 1: be happy about it. But there's I don't know how

480
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 1: to put it into words, but you know, you know

481
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 1: what when you see it. When I was I was

482
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:11,919
Speaker 1: she hunting in the Northwest, terrices, I remember when I

483
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 1: was in Nepal. Right, it was hard. See you brought

484
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: it up. Yeah, I do that all the time. I

485
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: can't help either. I can't help it. I'm so I'm

486
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 1: so great. Yeah I think I am. I think after

487
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:29,679
Speaker 1: recording myself for a year and a half, I just

488
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 1: realized that I'm a dick. But but yeah, I mean

489
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: you're talking to a guy no matter what you say, like, oh,

490
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 1: you know, my dad and I we love to go

491
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 1: feessant hunt yep, yep. By peasant hunt, Yep, I'm killing

492
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: I killed my limit every time I go Hey, no,

493
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: I listen. This is my biggest dick move that I

494
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,680
Speaker 1: that bugs me is when somebody, whether it's a kid

495
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,879
Speaker 1: or a grown man or woman, kills a buck and

496
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 1: someone says to that person, boy, he would have and

497
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 1: something else in another two years lost. Man. You know, listen,

498
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: I respect the idea of you know, hunting mature animals

499
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 1: and proper wildlife management, and but that's an evolution that

500
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 1: I think. Um, a lot of hunters have to go

501
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,679
Speaker 1: through on their own. And even if you never go

502
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: through it, that's all right. You know. My my father, Um,

503
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 1: he gets out and not as much as he used to.

504
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 1: And I mean he's gonna kill a small buck, and

505
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 1: I'm somebody's gonna be like, oh boy, dad, that one

506
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: would have been great next year. No, man, he's out there.

507
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 1: He had a great time. Like when you say that

508
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,439
Speaker 1: to people, I just think you're you're taking a moment

509
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 1: that was meaningful to them and you're kind of, you know,

510
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 1: crapping on it. Being a dick. That's what you're doing. Yeah,

511
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: that's a good one. Let's see what I can think

512
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: of one. Um, that's what. That's a really good one though,

513
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 1: that may be the biggest. And then there's another one

514
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: where like a guy might be watching a TV show

515
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: and a and a child might kill a giant animal,

516
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 1: and the first thing is like whatever, only because they're rich,

517
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: because dad has money. They don't deserve that. What do

518
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: you mean, right you? Weren't there a right that person?

519
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: You know, if my dad was rich and he took

520
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:14,880
Speaker 1: me run around the world to kill stuff, I would

521
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,400
Speaker 1: have loved it. Bring the criticism on all day. That's

522
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,360
Speaker 1: just jealousy, pure and simple. It's like just pure jel

523
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: I can't whoa that that little kid didn't earn that kud? Well,

524
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: what little kid earns a coup? No, But they're they're

525
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: lucky to have a dad that would take him to

526
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: do that. If you think, dude, if I could do

527
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 1: that with my kid, I mean, I took my kid

528
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 1: to Alaska two years ago fishing. That's awesome. I mean,

529
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: how dare how dare I? You just gave your spot

530
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 1: away but unbelievable. Don't go to Laska. Don't there's bugs?

531
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: I feel you have any uh any dick moves and

532
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 1: just you can go since you're not a hunter. Just

533
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 1: in general, like things people do around the office. Maybe

534
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 1: maybe office that's a good Maybe that's a good office

535
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 1: dick moves. Let's get that on. Yeah, well someone just

536
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: left a bunch of Pickle Barrel sandwiches and the fridge.

537
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 1: Pickle Barrel is a local sandwich shop. Yeah, very tasty,

538
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: notoriously smelly, very the onions are heavy, and they just

539
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,719
Speaker 1: left him in the fridge uncovered, and then the fridge

540
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 1: smelled like like like onions, very very you know. But

541
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: that was a light one light dick move. Yeah, I

542
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 1: got I have to fess up. One of those sandwiches.

543
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 1: Was they also they're big sandwiches, They're big, I can

544
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: only have they are smelly. I was like, did you

545
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: put them in uncovered? No? I did even something even worse.

546
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: I left my half eating sandwich on the conference table

547
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:38,719
Speaker 1: and left and someone else put it in the fridge.

548
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's a pretty dick move. Yeah, well I

549
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: had another meeting. I'm sorry, listen, I said it was

550
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: a light dick move, you know, Yeah that was me. Okay,

551
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: I'll take ownership for that. Let's keep going. Let's Anthony's dumb.

552
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: I will say I did one. Yesterday. We were filming

553
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: the thing, and you know, they have the lights on you,

554
00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 1: and it's all they want you to look good, and

555
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: then they can if we ate lunch, and then we're

556
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 1: continued filming. They gave us floss to make sure we

557
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: don't have anything in our teeth for the filming. And

558
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: I did the floss and then I set it down

559
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 1: on the table and I walked away. Did you clip

560
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: your toe nails too, that's nasty? Yeah, yeah, so and

561
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: then Ronella goes, did you just leave your floss on

562
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: the table as a noe? And I put in my

563
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: pocket and I walked away. Nope, won't me slowly shuffled

564
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: away in shame? Any other office? You guys, you both

565
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,239
Speaker 1: are relatively new to the office, relatively new. Well, this

566
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: guy keeps having me on his podcast and tries to

567
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 1: get me to sound smart, and it's impossible you're gonna

568
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: be a hunting philosopher. By the time, I was thinking

569
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: that that was an obvious when you get this guy

570
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: keeps putting on this podcast and try it puts me

571
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: in tough spots. It's really rough. Yeah, what other office?

572
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: I like this topic? We're gonna probably cut out Tyler's

573
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: and sorry, Tyler, We're gonna put you in a different

574
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 1: We're gonna do another hour and a half just on office.

575
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: What's the other you know, other office moves. People's dogs

576
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: sometimes are just not We have a dog friendly office,

577
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: and there's some people who know you know who you are.

578
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: You're thinking, is he talking about me? I'm probably talking

579
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: about you. Your dog is annoying. Are you talking about

580
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,719
Speaker 1: the meeting we had earlier day where some of us,

581
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: right in the middle of a really important point, the

582
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: dog comes into the table biting her wrists. Don't She's

583
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: trying to carry on with her point. And I don't

584
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: want to tell you guys, but during the whole meeting,

585
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: that same dog was licking my toes and I was

586
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 1: like what. I was like, No, I'm kind of I'm

587
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: not I'm not hating it. I'm into it a little bit.

588
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: Uh So, Yeah, there's that. That's one. The dog thing.

589
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: The food thing is tough because we cook a lot

590
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: of weird stuff. We cook crow with cook Mountain Lion,

591
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: cooking bear today, and so it's a tough one. The

592
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: smell because our desk Anthony are like right right in

593
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: the danger zone for the if a guy was to

594
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: burn earned the meat. You know. Well, I used to

595
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: work in New York City and one of my favorite

596
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: cheap lunches was to eat meat you know called street meat, right,

597
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: big plate of like um Middle Eastern food with the

598
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 1: rice and onions. It was delicious. But man, everybody else like,

599
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: hey got some street meat today, did you? It's coming

600
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: out of your pores. It's going out of your pores. Yeah,

601
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 1: all right, Phil, give us one more office dick move. Well,

602
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 1: I was just thinking about the street meat because I can.

603
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: I can relate to that I got. I've only been

604
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 1: to New York twice, but one time my one of

605
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: my friends like, we're going to Halal guys at two

606
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: am or whatever I was he ordered for me because

607
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: I had no idea, and yeah, I couldn't get it

608
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: out of my skin for about a week. It was.

609
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: It's it's like, oh, yeah, I'm not sure this is

610
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: an office dick move, but you brought it up by

611
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: talking about the dog. Look at your feet. This is

612
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: a flip flop friendly office man everybody has and like

613
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: slipping them off and some bare feet. Yeah I did

614
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: say I did put my feet have we have a megadesk,

615
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: you and I and I did take my flops off

616
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: and put my feet on my desk. Was that today? Maybe? Yes,

617
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: I didn't see that, thank you. Oh you weren't there there.

618
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 1: But I mean I was actually chided by my co

619
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 1: workers for not wearing flip flops soon enough. Well, dude,

620
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 1: I came two days ago and I'm wearing my blunt

621
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 1: stone boots that I wear all the time. I saw

622
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: more than one person look at my feet in judgment,

623
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: being like, dudes not wearing flip flops. It's like six

624
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: degrees that he should have flipp People in mind are

625
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: so excited when the sun comes out, they're just like shirtless.

626
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: I was like, it's forty eight degrees, calm down. Why

627
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: don't wearing shorts? Bro? Like, I don't know, Yeah, that's

628
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: that's not what we do. So yeah, there's a lot

629
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 1: of judgments. Um, we've gone off the rails we have,

630
00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: which I really like. But I'm trying to change the

631
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 1: narrow if the mediator office is really what I'm change refine,

632
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: So you're trying to redefine the mediator office narrative? What's

633
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: the current nator flips and dogs flip flops and dogs,

634
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: which there's only a few. If there's only a few

635
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: ways that I could tell the story about the dog

636
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 1: licking my toes in the office because there's not a

637
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 1: lot of people here. Maybe you're listening to this in

638
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 1: your office. Have you ever had a dog with your

639
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: toes during a meeting when you're giving like some real

640
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: impoor monologue about content and then there's like a dog

641
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 1: just down there. It's going to town. And then I'm

642
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: thinking it's distracting me because I'm thinking, why is he

643
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 1: licking my toes? What is all my toes that I

644
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: took a shower? What's all my toes that shouldn't be there? Yeah,

645
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: we're shoes. Yeah. So I'm gonna leave you guys with

646
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 1: that that thought. What was all my toes? Right in

647
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 1: and let us what you think top five things that

648
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: you think might have been all my toes? We're really

649
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: going way off track. Um, all right, Well, if we're

650
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: gonna get to the interview person of the show, all right,

651
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: that is one of the best segments we've ever done. Uh,

652
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 1: we're gonna get to Tyler Sharp and we're gonna go

653
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 1: he lives down in Livingston, Montana and I went over

654
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: to his house. We had a really good conversation about

655
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: what he does, um, what he wants to do, and

656
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: his goals within the industry, and then some of his

657
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: pretty cool stories from his time traveling with like some

658
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: Jim Shocky and others filming and experiencing a lot of

659
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: things and in a couple of a lion attacks story. Yeah,

660
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: so that's cool. Where we got that going? So we're

661
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 1: gonna transport ourselves in time to live me some Montana.

662
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: We're talking to Tyler Sharp, the editor in chief of

663
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 1: Modern Huntsman enjoy I guess Tyler Sharp, what's up man

664
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 1: now much? Just enjoying a Topo Chico over? Hey, maybe

665
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 1: they would have sponsored the podcast? You think I would

666
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: hope so, because it needs a larger presence in Montana.

667
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 1: I think Topa Chico Now just came from Texas. I

668
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 1: lived there for some time and it did enjoy it.

669
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: And you are a dual resident of Texas and Montana,

670
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 1: which I feel is that's a pretty good combination. It

671
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: is to have those two things, trying to maintain that,

672
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: trying to be a fair weather resident in both places.

673
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: So lay that out. Do you go down there during

674
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 1: the wintertime and come up here during the summertime, because

675
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: if you do, screw you, because that's awesome. I was

676
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 1: here this winter, which was, you know, pretty cold, especially

677
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,399
Speaker 1: out here. Um. But the idea, yeah, it would be

678
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: summer here, fall here, and then maybe like you know,

679
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 1: December through February or March in Texas, come back for

680
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:42,240
Speaker 1: spring here. Um. Finding that balance. But that's a fine

681
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 1: that's a fine balance. I often tell people that if

682
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 1: I could take the best of those two worlds, I

683
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: would take it every day. And I used to. This

684
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: winter in Montana wasn't so bad. Probably out here. You're

685
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: out here in the in the middle of nowhere on

686
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: a beautiful ranch. I'm sure it was a little tougher

687
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 1: out here than it was. It wasn't bad until February,

688
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: and then there was a period of three weeks where

689
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: it was fifteen below and we got three ft of snow,

690
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: and so that that started to grind on me a

691
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 1: little bit. But yeah, I mean, I went snowboarding and

692
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,320
Speaker 1: try to snowshoe and hike. But when you go outside

693
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: and you're breath immediately freezes, You're like, yeah, that's not

694
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,439
Speaker 1: going to go for a run today, and you're where

695
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 1: are you born? Tell people you're kind of your where

696
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: you're born? How you got to wear sung? I'm so

697
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 1: little known secret and I hesitate to even tell the

698
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 1: public at largness. I was actually born in Kansas City, Missouri, UM.

699
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,919
Speaker 1: When I was two, we moved to Austin. So grew

700
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:44,879
Speaker 1: up in Austin, and then we moved to Grapevine, which

701
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 1: is in between Dallas and Fort Worth. Went to school there, uh.

702
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: And then I went to college at USC in Los Angeles,

703
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: studied film and photography as well as psychology and Italian randomly.

704
00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: And then my first job was in Tanzania. So I'm

705
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 1: moved to Africa and worked for a safari company and

706
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: filmed and photographed hunts for six months. Uh. And that's

707
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 1: kind of what put me on the trajectory of the

708
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,839
Speaker 1: hunting industry. So you explain that time in your life.

709
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: I mean you you you talk about a lot of

710
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: varied places, Missouri, Austin, USC and then over to Africa.

711
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit more about Africa

712
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 1: in this conversation, but describe that time where you first

713
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 1: got to see that place and understand what it was

714
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,479
Speaker 1: it was, you know, everybody has their own vision. They've

715
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,399
Speaker 1: heard stories, they've read books, they've watched movies, and then

716
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,399
Speaker 1: you get there and it's kind of your own experience.

717
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: And I remember getting there and and you know, it

718
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 1: was way out in the bush, so we took a

719
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:47,280
Speaker 1: bush plane two hours out in the middle of nowhere.

720
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: And I get there. It's dark, and I meet some

721
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 1: people in the camp and they kind of take me

722
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,320
Speaker 1: on this tour and they showed me the nice tents

723
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 1: and and I'm like, oh cool. You know, I kind

724
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: of put my back and they're like, oh no, no no, no,

725
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: that's not your tent, that's the client tent. And they

726
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 1: take me to the back at the camp, which is

727
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 1: in the pitch black. I don't even know what the

728
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 1: area looks like. And this is um in Tanzania. It's

729
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,800
Speaker 1: it's called the Ruaha. It was the Usangu gamers Or,

730
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: which is adjacent to the Ruajan National Park and um

731
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 1: amazing area. And so I get out in this tent,

732
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,399
Speaker 1: They're like, okay, good night, and you know, I can

733
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 1: hear hyenas immediately, and then I hear lions and I'm like,

734
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 1: all right, well, maybe I'll just brush my teeth and

735
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: go to bed. I literally step outside and I hear

736
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 1: a lion roar. I'm like, you know what, I'm good.

737
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 1: I don't need to brush my teeth. So that first

738
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 1: night was a little unnerving because I have never been there.

739
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 1: I have no idea if a tent is safe. How

740
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 1: close are those lions and hyenas? Um. But then I

741
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 1: woke up and kind of saw the lay of the land.

742
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 1: And um, I always say, I feel like I went

743
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,280
Speaker 1: there a boy and came back a man, because I literally,

744
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: you know, no, this was before iPhones. There was no

745
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: cell phones, there was no internet. There was a CB

746
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,280
Speaker 1: radio and a satellite phone that was it. And uh,

747
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: you know, we hunted for her own food. They had

748
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 1: a shown by and Swahili which means farm, so they

749
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 1: grew all their vegetables and we were eating everything that

750
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: we grew and killed. And um, you know, I learned

751
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 1: Swahili became like a family with all these people, learned

752
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: how to track, could tell within ten minutes what time

753
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 1: of day it was by looking at the sun. Um,

754
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 1: and just uh it experienced this lifestyle that I didn't

755
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: even know it was real, right, and then it changed

756
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: me completely. How could that not changeing. Yeah, and uh,

757
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 1: I mean you want to talk about close encounters. I

758
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: got charged by leopards. I had a lion come into

759
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:36,919
Speaker 1: my tent in the middle of the night and staring

760
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,359
Speaker 1: me down five yards away in a full don't don't

761
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,720
Speaker 1: pass that over. Tell both. Uh So the lions story,

762
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: this is something I actually wrote about in in voyme

763
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: one of modern Huntsmen. And um. So, it's an area

764
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 1: called the Killing Barrow. Uh. It's a floodplain in central Tanzania.

765
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: And um, we were there hunting buffalo by river. You're

766
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,760
Speaker 1: in a boat with a triple decker, you know, observation tower,

767
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 1: and a massia sits on the top and if he

768
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: sees buffalo, he pulls the string and it rings the

769
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,399
Speaker 1: bell and the driver runs the boat. So you can't

770
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 1: see anything. It's fourteen foot grass. Um. But lions are

771
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 1: very present in this area and they're hunting these buffalo

772
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 1: or whatever. Um. And the tent in our tent, the

773
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:22,839
Speaker 1: zipper was broken on the mesh. And um it's so

774
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 1: hot there that you can't sleep with the campus closed,

775
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 1: so we were sleeping with the tent wide open. Of course,

776
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 1: my bed is by the door. And um, Georgie Ferreira,

777
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:35,720
Speaker 1: who's this you know, half Greek, half Brazilian, Swahili speaking

778
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 1: professional hunter. He's like man of the world. And he

779
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 1: was like, oh, don't don't be a wors you know,

780
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: it's fine lion. But so he's got the fourth four

781
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:49,280
Speaker 1: seventy double under his bed. He's asleep right feeling feeling

782
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,359
Speaker 1: real good about that. And this is the last time

783
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 1: I ever took um malaria medication. So um I And

784
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,439
Speaker 1: there's two different ones. There's malarone, which she is a ah,

785
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 1: it's a daily pill, and then there's Larry UM, which

786
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: is the weekly pill. So I that I had this

787
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: weekly pill which gives you murderous nightmare sometimes. So I

788
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 1: woke up in this panic like and my heart was racing,

789
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 1: I was sweating, I was panicking and realized it was

790
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: just this well, you know, Larry medicine UM. And then

791
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 1: about thirty seconds later, I hear which is a male

792
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 1: lion right behind the tent. So I think, all right,

793
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,800
Speaker 1: do I have time to jump up, run out untie

794
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 1: the flaps, close, the doors, zip it, jump back in.

795
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 1: By the time I even flinched to do that, he

796
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: called right next to my head outside the window just

797
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,320
Speaker 1: so I'm like, all right, well, here we go. And

798
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: um sat there and he walked out about to where

799
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:56,399
Speaker 1: that chair is, so less than five yards away, and

800
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: six hundred pound male massive had this big mohawk may

801
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 1: and it's a full moon, so it's super bright, and uh.

802
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,279
Speaker 1: I reached down to grab the bed frame because if

803
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 1: he came, I was going to try to flip the

804
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 1: bed on top of myself. Classic that that creaks like.

805
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 1: And the lion just turns around and just stares me

806
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:19,320
Speaker 1: right in the eyes. And I'll never forget. It was soaked.

807
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 1: I mean I just got goosebumps thinking about it. It

808
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 1: was deathly quiet, and I could hear the sand as

809
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 1: he dug his paws in and started to crouch, and

810
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 1: his tail started to do this, oh boy. And so

811
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, well, goodbye world. Uh. And it

812
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:38,280
Speaker 1: felt like ten minutes, but it was probably only about

813
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 1: fifteen seconds. And then he turned around, walked over to

814
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 1: the river, rubbed his face on the fence, jumped in

815
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 1: the river, swam off, and I was like, Georgie, wake up.

816
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 1: That damn lion was here, and you know, it gets

817
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: up in his underwear. He's acting all tough like and

818
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 1: the tracks were huge and so um he laughed. You know,

819
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: we didn't see him. Next full moon, next exact month,

820
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 1: same tent, same camp, Same lion comes back, but this

821
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 1: time the door is closed and he literally lays on

822
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 1: the porch and SAgs the tent wall in and he's

823
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 1: like like breathing. I can like see the canvas moving

824
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 1: back and forth because he's breathing. And so at that

825
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 1: point I kind of decided that that lion was my

826
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 1: spirit animal because he just kept coming back and I

827
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: had actually I forgot to mention this detail before he

828
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 1: showed up the first time. As a joke, we shaved

829
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 1: a mohawk into my head because my hair it was

830
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 1: just too damn high. I was like, let's shave my head,

831
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:34,879
Speaker 1: and Georgie's like, lot's to a mohawk. First next day,

832
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 1: the mohawk lion shows up on the porch. Uh. So, yeah,

833
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 1: that that was a close call. Um, the story of

834
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 1: the mohawk lin. Yeah, and uh and that's in in

835
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: Modern Hunts volume one. That was in volume one. Um,

836
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 1: you know there's a couple other a couple, I mean,

837
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: plenty of lion encounters, plenty of elephant encounters the leopard.

838
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: One was pretty funny. We were in Zambia and we were, uh,

839
00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 1: we were hunting the kudo and sable and we, um,

840
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 1: it's noon. We're driving in this land cruiser, no windshield,

841
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 1: no roof, no doors, totally open air, and all of

842
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:12,240
Speaker 1: a sudden, Lance Lance the pH slams on the brakes

843
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 1: and he's like, let chewy, you know, and we all

844
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 1: see it and it's trying to dig a word hog

845
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 1: out of its hole. It's pretty rare to see a

846
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 1: lepar in the middle of the day like that, and

847
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: so we're like, oh cool, and we're like thirty yards away.

848
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: So Lance is like, all right, I'm gonna try to

849
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:25,959
Speaker 1: get closer and so you can get a good picture.

850
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 1: So he turned sideways and the leopard kind of sneaks

851
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 1: away behind this log and it was just watching us

852
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: from behind the log with his paws up. And uh.

853
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 1: I got some video footage of it, but it was

854
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 1: kind of boring. It was too far away for it

855
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 1: to be good footage. And um, so I was like,

856
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 1: I'll take a couple pictures then we can go. So

857
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:44,720
Speaker 1: I take two pictures and as I clicked the shutter

858
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 1: on the third one. He just comes right for me,

859
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 1: and that thing covered twenty yards in two seconds, and

860
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 1: he got about this far away and veered off. So

861
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:57,359
Speaker 1: it was a mock charge. And I had a big,

862
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 1: you know, seventy two lens. I was just going to

863
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 1: try to hit him in the head with it. They

864
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: they're gonna get you, It's just a matter of how bad.

865
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 1: So I I like put my arm around my neck

866
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 1: so they can't get your neck. And I was just

867
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 1: gonna try to bash him with the lens. But it

868
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 1: was a mock charge. So he ran off and I

869
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,399
Speaker 1: looked down at Lance and he's sitting there. He didn't

870
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 1: reach for the keys, didn't reach for the gun, laughing,

871
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 1: and he just turns to me and he goes, did

872
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 1: you ship your pants? Mate? Like I'm sitting I'm sitting here,

873
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 1: you dude, you tell me? Yeah? Yeah, So there's you know, um,

874
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,360
Speaker 1: I think I I lived there. I lived in Tanzania

875
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 1: for almost three years, you know, And what really got

876
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 1: you there? I mean, you know, we kind of gave

877
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 1: people the lily pond like sure, but what how did

878
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: you get to find yourself there? Yeah? So, um, really

879
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 1: I don't know how to describe it other than just destiny.

880
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:49,760
Speaker 1: And that might sound contrived, but I was at USC

881
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 1: and um it was probably three months before I was

882
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 1: about to graduate, and um my dad at the time

883
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:00,360
Speaker 1: owned a store in Dallas that did screen printing, an

884
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 1: embroidery and all that, and it was next door to

885
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 1: a home video edit. It was called You Edit Video.

886
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 1: And we were friends with the manager because I used

887
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 1: to run my dad's store. And the owner of the

888
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 1: Safari company came in there and uh, I had a

889
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 1: bunch of really crappy footage and he's like, I want

890
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:16,879
Speaker 1: to make DVDs from my clients and they were like, well,

891
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 1: this footage sucks. You should hire somebody who knows what

892
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 1: they're doing and get like HD cameras and the guy goes, okay,

893
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 1: well let's do that. And my dad happened to be

894
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 1: privy to this conversation and just said, hey, well, my

895
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 1: son's about to graduate from USC, you should hire him.

896
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: And they said okay. So I literally got a call

897
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 1: from my dad and he's like, hey, t I, uh

898
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 1: I sent you that mail, and you know, we looked

899
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:36,839
Speaker 1: at flights and I think I got you a job

900
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 1: in tanzan you when you graduate, and and so literally

901
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 1: that's how it happened. So I literally when I graduated,

902
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 1: I sold a bunch of my stuff, said by to

903
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 1: my friends in l A, and moved back to Texas.

904
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 1: You know, did the whole like Cabella z R. I

905
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 1: run got all my Safari gear, most of which is

906
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 1: totally unnecessary, and went and then had this amazing experience.

907
00:46:57,760 --> 00:46:59,799
Speaker 1: But when I was there, I learned about Dallas Safari

908
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:03,879
Speaker 1: c And so when I came back and side note,

909
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 1: the company I worked for at the time, which I

910
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 1: will not name, totally screwed me over. Didn't pay me.

911
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,400
Speaker 1: My visa expired. Um, they never got my work permit.

912
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 1: The owner fled the country. So so I'm in the

913
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,359
Speaker 1: bush in November, right, and I'm like, how am I?

914
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 1: I don't even have a plane taket home. I have

915
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 1: like a hundred dollars to my name, and I'm like,

916
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 1: how in the US, it's kind of a big deal

917
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 1: if your visa expires. And I was like, how am I?

918
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 1: You know, I asked one of the guys that the

919
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:30,320
Speaker 1: at the office, like what am I? What am I

920
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 1: supposed to do? He's like, oh, i'm ana, you just

921
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: put the money in the passport. I like, you want

922
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 1: me to grease the customs officer. He's like, oh yeah,

923
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 1: I'm anasta banat visa and I'm so literally to leave

924
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 1: the country. I put a hundred dollar bill over my

925
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 1: expired visa, hand it to the guy, opens it up,

926
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 1: take some money, outstands my passport, hands it back and

927
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 1: I went straight to the bar and get a double

928
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:53,839
Speaker 1: whiskey and made it back. And that's when I learned

929
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 1: about Dallas Fry Club. So I went. So this would

930
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 1: have been January of two thousand seven was the first

931
00:47:57,480 --> 00:47:59,800
Speaker 1: time I went to the show and throw together a

932
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 1: photo book, UH, throw together a little DVD and just

933
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: started going around all the outfitters being like, please take

934
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 1: me back to Africa. I don't want to live in

935
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 1: the world. And UH ended up meeting a guy named

936
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 1: Michelle Montiakas who's a a third generation Tanzanian um. He

937
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: introduced me to the Knowlton family, which Corey Knowlton, and

938
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 1: so I worked for the Knowlton family for almost three

939
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 1: years and basically I would follow their UH employees and

940
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 1: clients around. Corey was a booking agent. Larry would send

941
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: a lot of his oil company employees and for those

942
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: who don't know. Corey was a long time on the

943
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:47,319
Speaker 1: Professionals of Gym Shocky and they have the Hunting Consortium. Um. So,

944
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:49,800
Speaker 1: so I've traveled around. I went to almost thirty countries

945
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:53,840
Speaker 1: in three years, all over the world. I mean, Pakistan, Russia, Nepal,

946
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,360
Speaker 1: fourteen countries in Africa and and and so I was

947
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:01,760
Speaker 1: actually the original producer on the So like me, Corey

948
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 1: and I kind of came up with that concept together.

949
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 1: And because the Outdoor Channel was telling Jim that they

950
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 1: wanted him to do a second show, so we kind

951
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:12,799
Speaker 1: of came up with this idea. And I was like,

952
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 1: this was right when DSLRs first came out. I was like,

953
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 1: we need to get a steady caam, we need to

954
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 1: get a DSLR and so um. So yeah. I was

955
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 1: one of the four original cameramen on The Professionals. And

956
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: so if you remember that show, there's the Ibex jumping,

957
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,279
Speaker 1: there's the water buffalo falling, that the bearer running, that's

958
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:33,799
Speaker 1: all my footage. Yeah, And it's funny because I saw it.

959
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 1: Yet he did a montage and I saw the Ibex

960
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: show thing, I was like, that's my clip, um and

961
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:40,959
Speaker 1: so um yeah, so I did that for a little

962
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 1: while and just got just got burned out. Um, I

963
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 1: was traveling. I was gone probably nine ten eleven months

964
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,279
Speaker 1: out of the year. Couldn't have a relationship, never saw

965
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 1: my family. Um, and being a hunting cameraman's hard, it's rough,

966
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:58,439
Speaker 1: and it doesn't pay well. Um. I mean I would

967
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 1: never trade that because of the riants I got and

968
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:02,800
Speaker 1: the places I went in the relationships I formed with

969
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 1: outfitters all over the world. Um. But then I so

970
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 1: I came back to Dallas and uh, this was probably

971
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: two thousand twelve, and UM, just kind of started to

972
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 1: pursue more freelance stuff. You know. I I'm an avid writer,

973
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 1: and so I started trying to get more editorial work

974
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 1: and brand work. So I kind of started to pursue

975
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:26,319
Speaker 1: brands like Philson and and Stetson and Cabela's and ended

976
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 1: up getting hired by Cabela's and worked with duchan Um

977
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: and uh. And that was kind of the shift for

978
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 1: me because then I kind of I almost quit photography

979
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 1: because I was like, you know, as you know, being

980
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 1: an editorial freelancers impossible full time. Yeah, you can't make weddings.

981
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:48,839
Speaker 1: I was doing senior portraits. I was doing corporate head

982
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 1: shots whatever, right should have you follow up your line

983
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 1: story with like a senior portraits story. No, please don't

984
00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 1: make me. Um. So I I almost quit, and I

985
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 1: was like at the end of my rope, and I

986
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 1: just thought to myself, Okay, if I didn't have to

987
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 1: worry about money and I could just do the kind

988
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:08,840
Speaker 1: of photography I want to do, what would it be.

989
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 1: And that's you know, kind of what we're doing now, right,

990
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 1: Sporting life documentary, Uh, you know, conservation storytelling, um, outdoor adventure.

991
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 1: You know, my mom's from Nacona, Texas, which is a

992
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 1: pretty famous like Western history cowboy tant Nacona Boots and

993
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 1: Justin Boots are all from there. So I've done a

994
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 1: lot of stuff with Texas Parks and I'm sorry Texas

995
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:32,439
Speaker 1: Historical Commission. Um. And so I just kind of said,

996
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:33,360
Speaker 1: all right, you know what from now and I'm not

997
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 1: gonna take anything that's not this stuff. And UM, I

998
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 1: managed to land a gig with Garden Gun and started

999
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,279
Speaker 1: doing some work with them, and worked with Cubby Rise

1000
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:46,839
Speaker 1: for a while. UM, and then just through this entire process, right,

1001
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:50,839
Speaker 1: especially because Texas is a pretty hunting friendly state, that's right, right.

1002
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 1: But when I would come back from Africa, people would

1003
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: have these emotional reactions because they just for whatever reason,

1004
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:00,959
Speaker 1: they've got an emotional testment to these animals, or they've

1005
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:03,359
Speaker 1: heard something online. And so I kind of had these

1006
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 1: two realizations. One that the hunting industry does an absolute

1007
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: terrible job of communicating with non hunters about why it

1008
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:16,280
Speaker 1: matters about its rolling conservation um. And then the second

1009
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 1: part of that realization was that most non hunters are

1010
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:25,880
Speaker 1: either not educated or directly misinformed about hunting's rolling conservation.

1011
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 1: And so, uh, that combined with my experience with other

1012
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:32,479
Speaker 1: magazines and how I felt like things could be done

1013
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:36,920
Speaker 1: better UM. Highlighting the contributors a lot more, you know,

1014
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 1: promoting things online UM is kind of what led to

1015
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 1: starting modern huntsmen, I think. And when people see when

1016
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 1: you're expressly say things like that, and I've said these

1017
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 1: things before. Here's the problems I see with hunting, right,

1018
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 1: and the messaging. I don't have any problem with the

1019
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 1: act of hunting, but the messaging being a problem. I

1020
00:52:58,000 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 1: think people there's some people that are immediately turned off,

1021
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:02,239
Speaker 1: WHOA sure, well, don't tell me what's wrong with what

1022
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:05,279
Speaker 1: I got going on. So there's a there's a there's

1023
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:06,799
Speaker 1: a fine line to walk there. I think we try

1024
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 1: to walk it because we love it so much. You

1025
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 1: want it to be um beneficial for society and you

1026
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 1: want people that don't do it to understand it. There's

1027
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 1: pressure there to do that. So with modern husband like, however,

1028
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:20,239
Speaker 1: you try to walk that line because it is a

1029
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 1: it's a it's a thin one. It's difficult. Um, you know,

1030
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:27,920
Speaker 1: I think we can all agree that hunting is in

1031
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 1: a hole. And it wasn't you and me that dug

1032
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 1: the hall, right, So that's a hard conversation to have, right,

1033
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 1: And and I feel like we're in a really difficult

1034
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:41,360
Speaker 1: position because I've intentionally positioned modern huntsman on the periphery

1035
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,359
Speaker 1: of the hunting industry, because if we are perceived as

1036
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 1: deep within the belly of that, we will not be

1037
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 1: able to accomplish our goal, which is too communicate with

1038
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 1: people who don't hunt and improve their viewpoint of what

1039
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 1: we do, right, which makes it hard because the hunting

1040
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 1: industry is so UM, I don't I don't want to say,

1041
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 1: you know, I don't. I don't know how to say this,

1042
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:07,800
Speaker 1: but uh, they stick to their own right and I

1043
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:10,400
Speaker 1: think you could agree with the story I just told, like,

1044
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 1: I've I've earned my chops, right, I've I've seen and

1045
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:18,840
Speaker 1: been and done the hunting industry, and so I understand it,

1046
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 1: and I know that there's a lot of really good

1047
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 1: people who are really dedicated to trying to keep it

1048
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:29,920
Speaker 1: moving forward, to keep it alive, to grow our numbers. However,

1049
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 1: the tone that's being used and the methods they're trying

1050
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:38,160
Speaker 1: to communicate aren't working, and it's a it's an us

1051
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:40,440
Speaker 1: versus them, and I you know, I wrote about this

1052
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 1: in my editor's letter, like it can't be us versus

1053
00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:46,399
Speaker 1: them anymore. It's got to be all of us, both

1054
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:51,320
Speaker 1: sides together against all of the conservation issues that we face.

1055
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,400
Speaker 1: I think, and I think there's some there's some difficulties

1056
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:56,920
Speaker 1: in all this. And one of the main difficulties is

1057
00:54:57,360 --> 00:54:59,800
Speaker 1: how you just articulated like wanting to kind of position

1058
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,399
Speaker 1: off away from the core, but then use in terms

1059
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:06,799
Speaker 1: like we and like we who what's we? You know?

1060
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 1: What's that collective? Really? Because it's it's hard to define

1061
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 1: if you feel like, well, these people don't represent me,

1062
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 1: I need to represent something different than them or the

1063
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:17,319
Speaker 1: way that they've done in the past, or at least

1064
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 1: like a sea change a bit in the messaging. It's

1065
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 1: hard to come to bring that all together, right, I mean,

1066
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 1: that's that's that's extremely difficult. Like pulling the core hunting

1067
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:32,000
Speaker 1: community that's kind of stuck in their ways or maybe

1068
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 1: cause this problem that you perceive towards your thing. That's

1069
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:38,279
Speaker 1: that's hard. I think we've all found it to be

1070
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:43,280
Speaker 1: hard thinking that, you know, thinking is that better falling

1071
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:46,680
Speaker 1: apart because I can't. You can't. You can hear me.

1072
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 1: If you can't, we're recording. There's something going on with

1073
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:53,239
Speaker 1: this piece of machinery. You can hear me. Yeah, let

1074
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:56,839
Speaker 1: me see is this this is mine? Here? It goes

1075
00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 1: back and forth. Yeah, I wonder that is if it's connection.

1076
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 1: Just trying to check with it. Uh yeah, I mean

1077
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:11,400
Speaker 1: I I've used this metaphor before, and uh I haven't.

1078
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 1: I haven't been blasted for it yet, So just keep

1079
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:17,440
Speaker 1: going with it. Um. You know, it's like you have

1080
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 1: a grandpa who's kind of hands e right, and you're

1081
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 1: at the birthday party and Grandpa maybe like grabbed your girlfriend.

1082
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:27,239
Speaker 1: You're like, Grandpa, you cause some problems and we love

1083
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 1: you and you're a good guy, But just you need

1084
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 1: to sit in this chair for the rest of the party.

1085
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 1: And there'll be a time when you can come back,

1086
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 1: but for right now, we've got to fix this, right

1087
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 1: And so Grandpa, right, that's not a specific person, that's

1088
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:45,560
Speaker 1: not a specific organization. That's let's call it the old mentality, right,

1089
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 1: the let's let's articulate that, like what's the old well, well,

1090
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:52,400
Speaker 1: articulately the old mentality, as you see, and then what

1091
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:54,600
Speaker 1: modern hunts from represents. Sure, so I think that the

1092
00:56:54,680 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 1: old mentality in let's say the nineties, right, Um, there

1093
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 1: wasn't social media, right, and and there wasn't the global

1094
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 1: uh spread of information in a second, right, and so

1095
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:10,920
Speaker 1: there was this kind of combative language that was going on,

1096
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 1: right the US first, the antis kind of thing. Well,

1097
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 1: the antis aren't it's not as descript anymore. It is

1098
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:25,600
Speaker 1: now because they've they're smart, they've mobilized, they've created media conglomerates.

1099
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:28,760
Speaker 1: So now it's not just that organization versus this organization.

1100
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 1: It's whatever they want to say goes to the entire world.

1101
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 1: And they are much better at social media and and

1102
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 1: and media. I mean, like Cecil the Lion, Nobody in

1103
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 1: Africa knew who sees the lion was Nope, nope, that

1104
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 1: was he was not a celebrity. But they were brilliant

1105
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:49,920
Speaker 1: in their marketing and they came up with a campaign

1106
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 1: and they accomplished their goal. Right. And as a result,

1107
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 1: lion importation and elephant importation United States has been banned,

1108
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 1: which has had drastic effects on the on the African conservation.

1109
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 1: Tanzania has lost over fifty of its hunting blocks because

1110
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 1: people can't afford to manage it anymore. So I think

1111
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:11,680
Speaker 1: that when I go, I'm gonna go back to the

1112
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 1: US versus them thing. It can't be a fight anymore.

1113
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 1: It's okay, let me change that. It has to be

1114
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 1: a fight, but we gotta fight differently, right, It's got

1115
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:23,200
Speaker 1: to be a constructive conversation. It can't be rock throwing

1116
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 1: anymore because's not working. It's it's factly, I think it's

1117
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:29,280
Speaker 1: getting worse if that's the path we continue down. And

1118
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:32,720
Speaker 1: so um, it's a difficult conversation, right because these are

1119
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:36,480
Speaker 1: these are people that I've worked with and respect and

1120
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 1: uh and and and it's it's hard in the same

1121
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 1: in any relationship, right to say, hey, listen, I feel

1122
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 1: like you're screwed up, right, and and and communicating that

1123
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 1: to someone in a way that's respectful, that doesn't um

1124
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 1: get their defenses up, because that's the key in anything, right,

1125
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 1: So and and and I think that's the difference with

1126
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 1: modern hunts and where we are, how we are. It's working.

1127
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:02,680
Speaker 1: We're having conversations with non hunters, with vegans, with vegetarians,

1128
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 1: with brands like Patagonia, because we're doing it in a

1129
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:09,200
Speaker 1: different way that I don't know if I want to

1130
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 1: say it's more respectful, but it's in a tone that

1131
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 1: isn't getting their defenses up, and and is making it

1132
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:18,560
Speaker 1: more possible for us to actually have a conversation and

1133
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:21,720
Speaker 1: point out the material in an educational way rather than

1134
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 1: a defensive way, because if it gets defensive, no one listens. Yeah,

1135
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 1: is there do you feel like? I think specific when

1136
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:32,000
Speaker 1: we talk about the messaging, there's no way to get around.

1137
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:33,480
Speaker 1: It's annoying to me, and I'm sure annoying to you

1138
00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:37,080
Speaker 1: to continue to talk about trophy hunting scandals because some

1139
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:39,440
Speaker 1: person took a picture with some animal that somebody didn't like.

1140
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:43,840
Speaker 1: It's it's getting to be real old, but it's still

1141
00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:47,560
Speaker 1: when you hear about hunting in the media effect, Uh,

1142
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:50,919
Speaker 1: maybe what it was CBS just ran a thing about

1143
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:53,720
Speaker 1: trophy hunting and had you know, it is the trophy

1144
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 1: hunting versus conservation, right, and that continually is a messaging

1145
00:59:57,880 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 1: and people like said, people that live in Chicago, they

1146
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:01,680
Speaker 1: might of New York, this is the only thing they see.

1147
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:04,920
Speaker 1: And so how do you change that part? Is there

1148
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 1: a way to change that part? Because that's we just

1149
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 1: gotta change the word. Yeah, So in Namibia, So Byron

1150
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 1: and I were just over in Namibia speaking on a

1151
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 1: journalism symposium in a room full of mostly non hunters

1152
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:21,120
Speaker 1: talking about African hunting, which was super interesting. However, Namibia

1153
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 1: has deliberately changed their term to conservation hunting. It's no

1154
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 1: longer trophy hunting, and just that right there, right, because

1155
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 1: when people hear trophy and we could we could spend

1156
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:35,520
Speaker 1: all the time in the world trying to describe someone. Okay, well,

1157
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 1: trophy technically means memento, right, and so if you are

1158
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:42,760
Speaker 1: trying to harvest an old, the oldest, biggest bull you can,

1159
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:44,520
Speaker 1: that's one of the best things you can actually do

1160
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:47,760
Speaker 1: for the herd dynamics, right, But that's not what people

1161
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:50,320
Speaker 1: think they think you're just going for the big antlers.

1162
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 1: And some people are right, and that's fine, right, but

1163
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:58,360
Speaker 1: we have to be cognizant of the fact that we

1164
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 1: live in a world where stuff gets spread all over

1165
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:03,280
Speaker 1: the world immediately, and then there are a lot of

1166
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:05,680
Speaker 1: people who are going to take that and misappropriate it

1167
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:09,520
Speaker 1: and use it to their own gains for whatever financial

1168
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 1: you know, initiatives they have. Uh. And so do I

1169
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:16,680
Speaker 1: think that people should be able to post their trophy

1170
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 1: photos because they they they're proud of it. Yeah, I

1171
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:22,600
Speaker 1: think they do. However, that's not the reality of the

1172
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:24,520
Speaker 1: world we live in. And so I think that if

1173
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:27,440
Speaker 1: you truly care about the future of hunting, right, you

1174
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 1: have to at least be aware of the consequences of

1175
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:34,560
Speaker 1: doing something like that. And it can't be this and

1176
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:37,480
Speaker 1: this is part of the old mentality like oh screw this,

1177
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:40,320
Speaker 1: I'm going down with the ship. We don't want the

1178
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:42,560
Speaker 1: ship to go down. We would like the ship to

1179
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:46,440
Speaker 1: stay afloat. And that's what I'm devoted to. And uh,

1180
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 1: we're gonna get chastised for it and criticized for it

1181
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:52,480
Speaker 1: because we're not saying the same things. And I would

1182
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:55,760
Speaker 1: like to. I have to you know, we have ties

1183
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 1: and alliances within the hunting industry, but it's not the

1184
01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:01,439
Speaker 1: majority I'm having to gain that and and and it's

1185
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 1: not a short conversation, right, It's something that takes uh

1186
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:09,040
Speaker 1: sitting down and me being able to explain the chess

1187
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:12,240
Speaker 1: game that we're playing. Yeah, And I think give people

1188
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 1: a few examples of you don't have the name names,

1189
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:22,720
Speaker 1: like times you've been challenged. Um, well I think that

1190
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:30,919
Speaker 1: you know, for for instance, me personally, right, Um, someone

1191
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:34,000
Speaker 1: goes to my Instagram account and there's not pictures of

1192
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:37,320
Speaker 1: dead animals on there, right, And so I've been accused

1193
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:40,960
Speaker 1: or criticized for not being a real hunter, right or

1194
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:44,080
Speaker 1: being hardcore whatever you wanna call it. But that's a choice,

1195
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:47,280
Speaker 1: right because if I put that, there's a way to

1196
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:50,840
Speaker 1: do that, right, Um, But if I don't do it

1197
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:54,000
Speaker 1: the right way, then it's going to unravel all the

1198
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:58,600
Speaker 1: work we've done. So Um. As a as an individual,

1199
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:02,000
Speaker 1: I see myself as a diplomat, right, I see myself

1200
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:04,960
Speaker 1: as as an ambassador for what I believe to be

1201
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:08,560
Speaker 1: our you know, the virtues of hunting. And and I

1202
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:10,440
Speaker 1: can't sit here and give you a list of like, Okay,

1203
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:12,600
Speaker 1: this is right. This is wrong because as you know,

1204
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:15,680
Speaker 1: it's incredibly nuanced and there's a lot of gray area.

1205
01:03:16,040 --> 01:03:17,880
Speaker 1: But in the same way that we could both agree

1206
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:23,160
Speaker 1: that honesty and integrity and loyalty and bravery are all virtues, right,

1207
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 1: they represent a moral center. That's what we're trying to

1208
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:30,240
Speaker 1: promote in this book is the people and the places

1209
01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:34,120
Speaker 1: and the situations and the organizations that represent what we

1210
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:39,120
Speaker 1: feel to be are, you know, virtues of hunting? Presenting

1211
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:43,160
Speaker 1: that in a visual format that could be could win

1212
01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:49,320
Speaker 1: a design Design awards um and that allows access and uh,

1213
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:51,600
Speaker 1: you know, engagement from people who aren't part of the

1214
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 1: hunting industry. So would you say that, like, I'm looking

1215
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:57,800
Speaker 1: at the volume three cover, it's a beautiful photo of

1216
01:03:57,840 --> 01:04:02,240
Speaker 1: a hunter. What's it? The water buffalo water buffalo arhem

1217
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:07,680
Speaker 1: lands in Australia. It's a beautiful photo. Would you say

1218
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:12,600
Speaker 1: this represents like your proposed new way of thinking? And

1219
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 1: then if you were to look at another magazine with

1220
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:17,880
Speaker 1: a dude sitting behind a big giant buck, and that's

1221
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:19,600
Speaker 1: like the older way. There's plenty of magazines that we

1222
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:21,120
Speaker 1: can call to we won't call him out, but this

1223
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:23,840
Speaker 1: is like there's that and there's this well how do

1224
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 1: you see those two things? Right? I don't want to

1225
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:27,560
Speaker 1: call it a new way of thinking because it's not

1226
01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:29,520
Speaker 1: a new way of thinking. Right. There's been people throughout

1227
01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:33,040
Speaker 1: history who have tried to do things what they feel

1228
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 1: to be is that's your way of this version of

1229
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 1: let's let's call it a m you know, a different philosophy, right,

1230
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:45,160
Speaker 1: one that's focused on I hate to use the word inclusiveness.

1231
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:49,000
Speaker 1: That's kind of a buzzword. But uh, we're talking to

1232
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:52,800
Speaker 1: a different audience than so the I'll give you, I

1233
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:55,600
Speaker 1: will give you that because examples in volume three, Max

1234
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:57,480
Speaker 1: low is in here. Yeah, a lot of people listeners

1235
01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:01,320
Speaker 1: won't know who Max Lowe is. Max low is in

1236
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:05,520
Speaker 1: the outdoor recreation industry is like a rising star. Yeah,

1237
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 1: climber his I would say, Stepdad is Conrad or Conrad anchor.

1238
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:17,080
Speaker 1: So this is a person that isn't traditionally involved in

1239
01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:19,240
Speaker 1: what we do anything with hunting. Right. He tells and

1240
01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 1: he tells the story to hear about some of that.

1241
01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:24,200
Speaker 1: But there's also guys like Jason Matt Singer in here

1242
01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:29,600
Speaker 1: who is core hunting um and guys like Charles Post

1243
01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:32,280
Speaker 1: who isn't Jesse Griffin is probably not. So there's just

1244
01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:34,920
Speaker 1: a lot of different perspectives here, and I'll give you that.

1245
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:37,840
Speaker 1: I think that's that's in the work is reflected and

1246
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:40,680
Speaker 1: I think that the difference right with a magazine with

1247
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:42,840
Speaker 1: a big buck on the cover with the guy sitting

1248
01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:45,640
Speaker 1: behind it, that's that's speaking to a specific audience, right,

1249
01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:48,000
Speaker 1: There's there's people who that's what they want to see,

1250
01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:51,200
Speaker 1: Like they know how to score that deer, they probably

1251
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:54,480
Speaker 1: know where it was, and and that's uh, it's a

1252
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:57,960
Speaker 1: specialized thing, right, And so we're not talking about a

1253
01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:01,640
Speaker 1: specialized thing. We're talking about engaged ng with a non

1254
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:05,720
Speaker 1: hunting public. And I'm doing my best to maintain credibility

1255
01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:08,200
Speaker 1: in the hunting industry that we do have a balance

1256
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:12,040
Speaker 1: of people who are legitimate hunters. Um. But at the

1257
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:14,760
Speaker 1: same time, you know, I think that, like we were

1258
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:18,120
Speaker 1: talking about earlier, we're not when I say we the

1259
01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 1: hunting industry are not going to survive if we don't

1260
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:25,040
Speaker 1: allow other people who aren't considered core hunters into the space,

1261
01:06:25,720 --> 01:06:30,200
Speaker 1: because that number is dwindling and things are changing, number

1262
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:34,240
Speaker 1: of populations are growing, humans are screwing everything up, right,

1263
01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:37,919
Speaker 1: And so I think that Um. You know, a lot

1264
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:40,720
Speaker 1: of the crossover we've had has been with the outdoor industry,

1265
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:44,120
Speaker 1: guys like Chris Burk Card, guys like Ben Moon and

1266
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:47,480
Speaker 1: Josh Murphy who are award winning filmmakers who do a

1267
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:50,200
Speaker 1: lot of work with Patagonia, and and and every issue

1268
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 1: has been a progression, and we're now having conversations. Our

1269
01:06:53,560 --> 01:06:55,880
Speaker 1: next issue is a women's issue, and it's it's all.

1270
01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:58,000
Speaker 1: Every story is gonna be focused on women and hunting

1271
01:06:58,040 --> 01:07:00,680
Speaker 1: and conservation and you know, calling area and arts and

1272
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:04,640
Speaker 1: all that. And that is a really great access point

1273
01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:07,560
Speaker 1: for some of these outdoor brands who now see the

1274
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:12,400
Speaker 1: rising interest in the female population or people. You know,

1275
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:15,000
Speaker 1: we had a quote from Ivan and Um in the

1276
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:17,440
Speaker 1: second issue that was like, people aren't just hunters anymore.

1277
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:19,840
Speaker 1: Their hikers and their climbers and their surfers and their

1278
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:24,280
Speaker 1: hunters Pagonies. Yeah, I mean you're right, and I do

1279
01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:26,280
Speaker 1: feel I will say, I want to let let you

1280
01:07:26,360 --> 01:07:28,439
Speaker 1: talk about your thing here. I think it's just it's

1281
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:31,320
Speaker 1: interesting and important. But I do agree with you. I

1282
01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:35,600
Speaker 1: feel I feel that as a community, we know we've

1283
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:38,600
Speaker 1: got to grow. Everybody would agree with that, right, How

1284
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:40,800
Speaker 1: we do it the way in which we message is

1285
01:07:40,800 --> 01:07:43,320
Speaker 1: something we can talk about all day. But I feel

1286
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:46,640
Speaker 1: very strongly that if we if as a community, not

1287
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:48,880
Speaker 1: everyone does this, but there are certain factions that do.

1288
01:07:49,560 --> 01:07:51,760
Speaker 1: If we're going to push out people that think differently

1289
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:54,160
Speaker 1: and look differently and act differently, if we're going to

1290
01:07:54,600 --> 01:07:57,160
Speaker 1: like typify a hunter and if you don't live up

1291
01:07:57,200 --> 01:07:59,160
Speaker 1: to that that thing, if we're gonna push you out

1292
01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:02,320
Speaker 1: or or downgrade your status in the hunting industry to

1293
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:04,280
Speaker 1: do things like that, the people, then we're not going

1294
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:06,360
Speaker 1: to grow. We're never going to have the chance to

1295
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:10,560
Speaker 1: expand the way we think, expand the way UM other

1296
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:12,840
Speaker 1: folks think about us. Like we're never going to build

1297
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:16,679
Speaker 1: a bridge ever. And so regardless of how of who's

1298
01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:19,240
Speaker 1: on either side of the bridge, if we can't bring

1299
01:08:19,320 --> 01:08:21,200
Speaker 1: someone in and say, okay, you're not you're in brand

1300
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:23,800
Speaker 1: new hunter. You may be legit in this field, but

1301
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:27,000
Speaker 1: you're not legit. Come over, let's teach you, let's learn

1302
01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:29,200
Speaker 1: from you, exactly Like, if you can't do that, you're

1303
01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:32,559
Speaker 1: never gonna nothing's ever gonna happen. So I do agree

1304
01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:34,360
Speaker 1: with that, but it's a it's an opportunity, you know.

1305
01:08:34,400 --> 01:08:38,000
Speaker 1: I think that that um a lot of people who

1306
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:42,600
Speaker 1: are experienced hunters, and especially out in the West, you know. Uh,

1307
01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:45,360
Speaker 1: I would say in a sense, they're kind of xenophobic, right,

1308
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:49,120
Speaker 1: they don't Montana is full go home, right, which you know,

1309
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 1: you don't want gentrification, you don't want massive development all that.

1310
01:08:52,120 --> 01:08:57,200
Speaker 1: But if someone's there right with a California plate and

1311
01:08:57,240 --> 01:08:59,920
Speaker 1: they're doing something they shouldn't be doing, that's an opportunity

1312
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:04,360
Speaker 1: to engage with them and maybe teach them the right way, right,

1313
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:08,040
Speaker 1: rather than have a confrontational experience that's going to make

1314
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:12,240
Speaker 1: them feel unwelcome or turned off from now be you know,

1315
01:09:12,280 --> 01:09:15,080
Speaker 1: growing their interests in hunting and fishing, you know. And

1316
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:17,320
Speaker 1: I think that that's a really important thing to do.

1317
01:09:17,400 --> 01:09:21,040
Speaker 1: And it's hard, right because and I wrote about this

1318
01:09:21,200 --> 01:09:24,759
Speaker 1: in the editor's letter that in a way modern huntsman

1319
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:27,680
Speaker 1: is meant to be a mirror that's forcing us in

1320
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:30,719
Speaker 1: the hunting industry to think about the what the things

1321
01:09:30,760 --> 01:09:33,400
Speaker 1: we say and the things we do. And we're not

1322
01:09:33,400 --> 01:09:36,800
Speaker 1: gonna like some of that, right and and so I

1323
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:41,160
Speaker 1: would my hope is that we are not blamed as

1324
01:09:41,280 --> 01:09:45,559
Speaker 1: the mirror, the mirror instrument of reflection by viewing something

1325
01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:48,000
Speaker 1: unpleasant about the way things are versus the way they

1326
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:51,120
Speaker 1: should be. And so I think that, you know, in

1327
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:54,559
Speaker 1: the spirit of self improvement, I would hope that over

1328
01:09:54,640 --> 01:09:57,800
Speaker 1: time that these things can move forward and that this

1329
01:09:57,840 --> 01:10:00,360
Speaker 1: can be easier and and you've got let's let's think

1330
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:02,800
Speaker 1: about you know, Dallas a Frai Club and sci right

1331
01:10:02,840 --> 01:10:05,679
Speaker 1: at these shows. Think about a non hunter walking into

1332
01:10:05,720 --> 01:10:11,120
Speaker 1: those shows. They're like, what is this? You know, and

1333
01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:14,720
Speaker 1: I would like to see And this is a conversation

1334
01:10:14,760 --> 01:10:16,800
Speaker 1: I'm having with Corey at Dallas a Frai Club, is

1335
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:20,040
Speaker 1: that even if it's a small section that that is

1336
01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:22,640
Speaker 1: presented differently, that it's maybe it's a gallery of some

1337
01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:25,559
Speaker 1: of this work, or it's you know, some films, or

1338
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:28,559
Speaker 1: it's uh, some chefs, or it's something that's not just

1339
01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:31,640
Speaker 1: you know, the traditional convention center with a bunch of

1340
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:33,920
Speaker 1: blown up to animals all over it with you know,

1341
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:36,360
Speaker 1: that that's what it's about. That the current because that

1342
01:10:36,439 --> 01:10:41,679
Speaker 1: currency is big horns, uh and and big hunts, and

1343
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:45,360
Speaker 1: that currency needs to shift a little bit, right so

1344
01:10:45,400 --> 01:10:47,439
Speaker 1: that it's more about the experience. Because I think we

1345
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:49,720
Speaker 1: could all agree, at least you and mean, I don't

1346
01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:51,479
Speaker 1: know about everybody, and that's fine if you want if

1347
01:10:51,479 --> 01:10:53,439
Speaker 1: you're just out for the score, But I don't hunt

1348
01:10:53,479 --> 01:10:56,160
Speaker 1: for that like I hunt for the experience, and that

1349
01:10:56,280 --> 01:10:58,200
Speaker 1: is that that is the way that we get other

1350
01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:01,280
Speaker 1: people involved, because that's what you're looking for. Yeah, like

1351
01:11:02,360 --> 01:11:04,760
Speaker 1: I I feel let me I'll play devil's advocate for

1352
01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:07,120
Speaker 1: a minute because it's always fun to I wouldn't expect

1353
01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:09,599
Speaker 1: anything to go there. That's me. I'm the devil's advocate.

1354
01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:12,120
Speaker 1: But I really I would say one in this conversation,

1355
01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:15,200
Speaker 1: I want to let you just say what modern huntsman

1356
01:11:15,280 --> 01:11:18,200
Speaker 1: is and get that out there. How's having a conversation.

1357
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:20,439
Speaker 1: I'm going next week to Berkeley, California. I'm going to

1358
01:11:20,439 --> 01:11:23,960
Speaker 1: go to the Berkeley Animal Rights Center. I'm gonna have

1359
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:27,479
Speaker 1: a conversation with some uh animal rights activists and then

1360
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:31,080
Speaker 1: talking to them, I said, specifically about trophy hunting, what

1361
01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:33,720
Speaker 1: is it that you what is it that gets you

1362
01:11:33,760 --> 01:11:36,320
Speaker 1: about it? It's like, because you're talking about the motivation

1363
01:11:36,360 --> 01:11:38,360
Speaker 1: of the individual, you're not talking about the benefit. Because

1364
01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:40,840
Speaker 1: if you're looking at the benefit of trophy hunting for

1365
01:11:41,000 --> 01:11:44,600
Speaker 1: African game and conservancies and when they were created, and

1366
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:47,360
Speaker 1: the fact that there's more more game than ever, and

1367
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:49,519
Speaker 1: it's more valuable than ever for the people that live there.

1368
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:52,840
Speaker 1: It's kind of you can't really argue that when you really,

1369
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:54,680
Speaker 1: when you look at the facts, you can't. It's hard

1370
01:11:54,720 --> 01:12:00,120
Speaker 1: to argue. But if let's just say, if there's a

1371
01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:03,599
Speaker 1: small amount of people in this case, and indeed those

1372
01:12:03,680 --> 01:12:06,840
Speaker 1: those shows kind of typify or signify what that really is.

1373
01:12:07,240 --> 01:12:09,400
Speaker 1: Small amount of people with a lot of money who

1374
01:12:09,439 --> 01:12:12,360
Speaker 1: think a certain way, right, those you would never set

1375
01:12:12,439 --> 01:12:16,840
Speaker 1: up a stable conservation system in that way. A very

1376
01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:19,400
Speaker 1: small amount of people with a lot of funding that

1377
01:12:19,439 --> 01:12:22,000
Speaker 1: desire to go to a place that they that they

1378
01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:23,960
Speaker 1: may or may not care about. It's not required to

1379
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:26,320
Speaker 1: them to care about the economic or social and economic

1380
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:30,280
Speaker 1: economic issues in Africa or any one country, or the

1381
01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:32,759
Speaker 1: wildlife populations in the place where they go. It's required

1382
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:34,080
Speaker 1: of them to pay the money and get on a

1383
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:37,600
Speaker 1: plane and go do their things. So we've not analyzed

1384
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:41,720
Speaker 1: their motivations, which makes that relationship unstable, right, it's an

1385
01:12:41,800 --> 01:12:45,960
Speaker 1: unstable relationship. You're relying on that small room of people

1386
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:47,479
Speaker 1: that walk around a d s C or s c

1387
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:51,959
Speaker 1: I and fund but it's a very important conservation initiative.

1388
01:12:52,439 --> 01:12:54,479
Speaker 1: So I think that I just think from a from

1389
01:12:54,520 --> 01:12:58,040
Speaker 1: a pragmatic level, from a even from a devil's avoca level,

1390
01:12:58,160 --> 01:13:01,920
Speaker 1: that's unstable. So you have that point, and then you

1391
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:04,400
Speaker 1: have what's motivating that small group of people to go

1392
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:06,720
Speaker 1: over there to kill those animals, because I don't think

1393
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:10,120
Speaker 1: I don't think anti hunters or non hunters would have

1394
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:13,320
Speaker 1: a problem if that motivation was removed. If those people

1395
01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:15,880
Speaker 1: were flying over there, they happen to kill a couple

1396
01:13:15,880 --> 01:13:17,920
Speaker 1: of animals and eat them. But they were given that

1397
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:23,040
Speaker 1: money to you know, a conservation organization, to a small government,

1398
01:13:23,360 --> 01:13:27,120
Speaker 1: or to some individual or group of people that could

1399
01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:31,439
Speaker 1: better the mission, and so it for for most folks,

1400
01:13:31,439 --> 01:13:34,920
Speaker 1: I think it falls apart with that motivation. So it's

1401
01:13:34,920 --> 01:13:38,080
Speaker 1: hard to separate the motivation from the end result. Yeah,

1402
01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:41,760
Speaker 1: and I think that, um, that's something we're actually talking

1403
01:13:41,760 --> 01:13:46,479
Speaker 1: a lot about. Uh to boil volume three down to

1404
01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:48,760
Speaker 1: the you know, when I say it stated in like

1405
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:53,040
Speaker 1: a one statement, it's there's a lot of amazing animals

1406
01:13:53,160 --> 01:13:56,160
Speaker 1: in the world, and for one circumstance or another, a

1407
01:13:56,160 --> 01:13:59,880
Speaker 1: lot of them have to die. Yeah, and thankfully they

1408
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:02,599
Speaker 1: there are a lot of systems in place that make

1409
01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:09,639
Speaker 1: sure that that is done. Responsibly, sustainably and financially. Financially sensibly,

1410
01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:12,160
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're gonna use two in a row,

1411
01:14:12,240 --> 01:14:16,519
Speaker 1: but yeah, so in that sense, right, the conversation I've

1412
01:14:16,520 --> 01:14:20,280
Speaker 1: always had about Africa, right, because I've filmed again are gamut. Right.

1413
01:14:20,680 --> 01:14:22,840
Speaker 1: Some guys save their whole life to go on a

1414
01:14:22,880 --> 01:14:25,439
Speaker 1: buffalo and like cried the first time they shot a

1415
01:14:25,479 --> 01:14:29,120
Speaker 1: buff with their four seventy double rifle, which was amazing, Right.

1416
01:14:29,120 --> 01:14:31,719
Speaker 1: And then I've got guys who just couldn't care less.

1417
01:14:31,880 --> 01:14:35,320
Speaker 1: This is their twenties safari, right, And just like with

1418
01:14:35,400 --> 01:14:39,400
Speaker 1: any job, you keep your mouth shut, right, you bite

1419
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:41,120
Speaker 1: your tongue and you say, you know what, this guy

1420
01:14:41,280 --> 01:14:44,559
Speaker 1: doesn't uphold what I feel to be are the virtues

1421
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:48,000
Speaker 1: of hunting. And I feel like somebody should appreciate what

1422
01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:51,280
Speaker 1: they're being able to do right here, but they don't write. Thankfully,

1423
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:53,080
Speaker 1: the system is in place where the money they're paying

1424
01:14:53,160 --> 01:14:55,200
Speaker 1: is going to the people who do care and are

1425
01:14:55,240 --> 01:15:00,679
Speaker 1: helping that continue. Um. But that's something that we're trying

1426
01:15:00,680 --> 01:15:02,639
Speaker 1: to do, is show that there's a difference. Right there

1427
01:15:02,680 --> 01:15:06,360
Speaker 1: are the people who don't give a ship, They just

1428
01:15:06,400 --> 01:15:09,479
Speaker 1: want to kill, right, But that's not most of us.

1429
01:15:10,040 --> 01:15:13,840
Speaker 1: And so I think that creating that distinction for the public, right,

1430
01:15:13,920 --> 01:15:16,280
Speaker 1: because when they when someone looks online and they see

1431
01:15:16,640 --> 01:15:19,880
Speaker 1: sensationalized Facebook posts or some you know, you know, main

1432
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:24,240
Speaker 1: media slander, they lump hunters all into that category, and

1433
01:15:24,360 --> 01:15:26,320
Speaker 1: that's the narrative. Let's bring no, no, no, it is

1434
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:30,400
Speaker 1: the mainstream. However you would define mainstream, that's the narrative

1435
01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:33,960
Speaker 1: base push, And it's often like push the narrative to

1436
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:36,360
Speaker 1: the point now where there there's enough people questioning, okay,

1437
01:15:36,400 --> 01:15:38,760
Speaker 1: well what's the counter narrative? Right that even when you

1438
01:15:39,080 --> 01:15:41,120
Speaker 1: when you watch the New CBS thing or any of

1439
01:15:41,479 --> 01:15:44,120
Speaker 1: any of the documentaries, you find people embracing the counter

1440
01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:46,920
Speaker 1: narrative enough at least to address it exactly and set

1441
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:49,599
Speaker 1: up the two different sides. So I think that that's

1442
01:15:49,640 --> 01:15:52,840
Speaker 1: really the point is to show that, look this, there's

1443
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:56,800
Speaker 1: more than that, right, uh. And and to do that

1444
01:15:56,920 --> 01:16:01,599
Speaker 1: requires a little bit of separation from that right and so, um,

1445
01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:05,240
Speaker 1: you know, not to say that one's holier than thou, right,

1446
01:16:05,360 --> 01:16:08,360
Speaker 1: but it's one of those things where um, I find

1447
01:16:08,520 --> 01:16:12,200
Speaker 1: I found myself being held accountable for someone else's actions.

1448
01:16:12,240 --> 01:16:14,960
Speaker 1: And I don't really think that's you can't say it's

1449
01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:16,599
Speaker 1: fair because that doesn't matter. But you know what I mean,

1450
01:16:16,760 --> 01:16:19,280
Speaker 1: I'm trying to do something about it, right, to show

1451
01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:21,760
Speaker 1: that there are other people in this world who do

1452
01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:24,759
Speaker 1: things differently. And yeah, those guys are assholes, right, Maybe

1453
01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:27,680
Speaker 1: the one guy is a dick, but you know what,

1454
01:16:27,800 --> 01:16:29,400
Speaker 1: he does pay a lot of money and that money

1455
01:16:29,400 --> 01:16:33,280
Speaker 1: goes to the right places. So we can accept the

1456
01:16:33,320 --> 01:16:36,599
Speaker 1: bad behavior of Grandpa, you know, and and he can

1457
01:16:36,680 --> 01:16:38,800
Speaker 1: he can still hang out. But we just need to

1458
01:16:38,840 --> 01:16:42,240
Speaker 1: know that, like, we have our differences. And I would

1459
01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:47,519
Speaker 1: hope over time that um, that the support of some

1460
01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:49,040
Speaker 1: of the and you know, I worked for a lot

1461
01:16:49,120 --> 01:16:52,920
Speaker 1: of um of of guys who are you know, Texas

1462
01:16:53,080 --> 01:16:56,120
Speaker 1: um kind of oil barrens, right, And there's some of

1463
01:16:56,160 --> 01:17:01,200
Speaker 1: the nicest, most humble people I've ever met my entire life. Um,

1464
01:17:01,240 --> 01:17:04,400
Speaker 1: but they're they're old school, right, and they're super conservative

1465
01:17:04,479 --> 01:17:07,280
Speaker 1: and so and I'm I'm not a Democrat or a

1466
01:17:07,280 --> 01:17:09,360
Speaker 1: liberal by any means. I saw my entire life in Texas,

1467
01:17:09,439 --> 01:17:12,040
Speaker 1: but so I try to stay middle of the road.

1468
01:17:12,160 --> 01:17:14,839
Speaker 1: It's my job now to be an observer and understand

1469
01:17:14,840 --> 01:17:19,040
Speaker 1: both sides and try to find a solution, not a solution,

1470
01:17:19,080 --> 01:17:22,840
Speaker 1: but at least progress towards a solution. And so the

1471
01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:26,679
Speaker 1: conversations I'm having with guys, you know, like like Larry

1472
01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:29,760
Speaker 1: or some of my former clients, is listen, we're all

1473
01:17:29,800 --> 01:17:33,280
Speaker 1: going the same direction, right, we all have the same goal,

1474
01:17:33,920 --> 01:17:37,439
Speaker 1: but the road that we've been on before isn't working,

1475
01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:39,519
Speaker 1: and so we were trying to go on a different road.

1476
01:17:40,040 --> 01:17:42,280
Speaker 1: And more than anything, we just need your help, right,

1477
01:17:42,360 --> 01:17:44,400
Speaker 1: and we need you to understand that this is not

1478
01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:50,000
Speaker 1: some infiltration, you know, greeny, you know, whatever you wanna

1479
01:17:50,040 --> 01:17:54,200
Speaker 1: call it. This is it's a psychology move, it's a

1480
01:17:54,360 --> 01:17:57,439
Speaker 1: it's a chess move, and we need the backing. So

1481
01:17:57,840 --> 01:18:00,160
Speaker 1: you know, those are conversations I'm having with leadership some

1482
01:18:00,160 --> 01:18:03,400
Speaker 1: of these organizations is we need we need meat eater,

1483
01:18:03,640 --> 01:18:06,000
Speaker 1: we need you know, b h A, we need all

1484
01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:10,320
Speaker 1: of those, but we also need this too, because when

1485
01:18:10,320 --> 01:18:12,400
Speaker 1: you look at the spectrum, we've got to cover more

1486
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:15,480
Speaker 1: than just the ground we're currently covering. And so that's

1487
01:18:15,520 --> 01:18:18,760
Speaker 1: that's what I'm trying to do. Yeah, I mean, when

1488
01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:21,519
Speaker 1: you have those conversations with folks in those positions, because

1489
01:18:23,000 --> 01:18:24,840
Speaker 1: I think I've probably made a mistake in the past

1490
01:18:24,880 --> 01:18:30,280
Speaker 1: of condemning those entire organizations when I go. Now, when

1491
01:18:30,280 --> 01:18:32,280
Speaker 1: I go, I think Wild Cheap does a pretty good

1492
01:18:32,360 --> 01:18:34,880
Speaker 1: job of They've done a pretty good job. Great Thorte

1493
01:18:34,920 --> 01:18:36,439
Speaker 1: and crew have done it. You know what I would

1494
01:18:36,479 --> 01:18:40,880
Speaker 1: would would say is a great job of understanding what's

1495
01:18:40,920 --> 01:18:43,519
Speaker 1: going on and trying to go to their show, and

1496
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:46,600
Speaker 1: you really feel that they're they're making an effort to

1497
01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:49,560
Speaker 1: kind of see both sides of that, see how it was,

1498
01:18:49,760 --> 01:18:51,599
Speaker 1: how it needs to be, and really put that all

1499
01:18:51,600 --> 01:18:54,920
Speaker 1: together in one thing. What's the conversation with folks that

1500
01:18:55,080 --> 01:18:58,559
Speaker 1: like Fari Club or Dallas Fari Club? Do they see

1501
01:18:58,600 --> 01:19:01,599
Speaker 1: it when you talk to do they recognize it? Are

1502
01:19:01,600 --> 01:19:04,639
Speaker 1: they are they worried? Or or there is an insular

1503
01:19:08,200 --> 01:19:12,600
Speaker 1: seeing it more? Right? Um? Because I mean it's a

1504
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:14,680
Speaker 1: tune in seventy two page book. It's not something to

1505
01:19:14,720 --> 01:19:16,960
Speaker 1: be like, hey read this Pamplint real quick, right, and

1506
01:19:17,000 --> 01:19:21,519
Speaker 1: it's it's pretty in depth. Um. You know, I think

1507
01:19:21,560 --> 01:19:25,680
Speaker 1: that the hunting industry or a lot of these organizations, right,

1508
01:19:25,800 --> 01:19:29,200
Speaker 1: however good our intentions might be, in most cases, it's

1509
01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:30,960
Speaker 1: a room full of members of the same club, all

1510
01:19:30,960 --> 01:19:34,879
Speaker 1: agreeing with each other, and when that conversation goes outside

1511
01:19:34,880 --> 01:19:38,400
Speaker 1: of the room two people that aren't part of that club.

1512
01:19:39,360 --> 01:19:42,000
Speaker 1: A lot of times it ceases to be productive because

1513
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:46,120
Speaker 1: the communication is broke down, right. And so in the

1514
01:19:46,200 --> 01:19:49,479
Speaker 1: same way that you know, you can think about a

1515
01:19:49,520 --> 01:19:54,240
Speaker 1: PR campaign or communication strategy or a style guide, that's

1516
01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:57,920
Speaker 1: what we're trying to do is create a new method

1517
01:19:57,960 --> 01:20:03,560
Speaker 1: of communication, uh of of visual representation that is still

1518
01:20:04,439 --> 01:20:07,920
Speaker 1: is accomplishing the same goals. But again is is we're

1519
01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:09,840
Speaker 1: trying to go around it. So when they see that,

1520
01:20:09,880 --> 01:20:12,880
Speaker 1: they're not thinking about Cecil the lion, even though we're

1521
01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:15,120
Speaker 1: going to talk about it and we're going to hit

1522
01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:18,160
Speaker 1: him with the truth, you know. So I think that

1523
01:20:18,160 --> 01:20:21,800
Speaker 1: that's no matter what it is, right, um, because so

1524
01:20:21,880 --> 01:20:26,479
Speaker 1: much of the messaging of these organizations is is in interior, right,

1525
01:20:26,520 --> 01:20:29,120
Speaker 1: it's two other hunters, it's it's this or that which

1526
01:20:29,160 --> 01:20:31,599
Speaker 1: is important, right, because there's a lot of hunters who

1527
01:20:31,920 --> 01:20:34,800
Speaker 1: you know, could perhaps stand to to learn more about

1528
01:20:35,040 --> 01:20:38,120
Speaker 1: you know, public land or do more than just pay

1529
01:20:38,200 --> 01:20:41,200
Speaker 1: the Pittman robertson tax right or get involved. Right. That's

1530
01:20:41,240 --> 01:20:44,840
Speaker 1: all stuff that's good, um, But like, like we all

1531
01:20:44,880 --> 01:20:47,320
Speaker 1: agree that those numbers are going down, So where's that

1532
01:20:47,360 --> 01:20:50,439
Speaker 1: going to come from? And I personally believe it's going

1533
01:20:50,520 --> 01:20:53,440
Speaker 1: to come from outside and the only way to accomplish

1534
01:20:53,520 --> 01:20:56,800
Speaker 1: that is to communicate in a different way. Yeah. Do

1535
01:20:56,800 --> 01:21:00,920
Speaker 1: you feel like, all right, I'm sure I'm guilty of

1536
01:21:00,920 --> 01:21:02,920
Speaker 1: this is something level too. Do you feel like you

1537
01:21:03,040 --> 01:21:05,920
Speaker 1: talk so much about it and you think so much

1538
01:21:05,960 --> 01:21:08,880
Speaker 1: about it, and you think about and like you said,

1539
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:10,719
Speaker 1: it's not a new way, but it's just like your

1540
01:21:10,800 --> 01:21:13,760
Speaker 1: way articulating what hunting is or what it could be

1541
01:21:13,880 --> 01:21:16,960
Speaker 1: or it's really it's value proposition for society, which I

1542
01:21:16,960 --> 01:21:19,519
Speaker 1: think what we're talking about anyway, Like is it valuable

1543
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:22,360
Speaker 1: for society? Yes? Or no? That's what everybody wants to know.

1544
01:21:22,400 --> 01:21:24,960
Speaker 1: It's hunting. We're in a different spot and we have

1545
01:21:25,439 --> 01:21:29,880
Speaker 1: human linkage like all the way going back to when

1546
01:21:29,920 --> 01:21:33,519
Speaker 1: we were hominids to to this activity. So there's no

1547
01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:36,680
Speaker 1: arguing that. But in the modern sense, our length, the

1548
01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:39,599
Speaker 1: links in the chain are starting to get get broken. Yeah,

1549
01:21:40,560 --> 01:21:45,760
Speaker 1: So is there is there a version of this where

1550
01:21:45,760 --> 01:21:49,439
Speaker 1: you're worried about pulling the wool over people's eyes, like, hey,

1551
01:21:49,479 --> 01:21:51,519
Speaker 1: this is how it really is, right, modern huntsman, is

1552
01:21:51,560 --> 01:21:54,000
Speaker 1: how it really is. But people can can the people

1553
01:21:54,000 --> 01:21:56,479
Speaker 1: that I don't agree with can remain under the cover

1554
01:21:56,640 --> 01:21:58,960
Speaker 1: of what I've created to do the things they want

1555
01:21:58,960 --> 01:22:01,880
Speaker 1: to do, and not I. I do not in any

1556
01:22:01,880 --> 01:22:04,840
Speaker 1: way believe that this is, you know, hardline, this is

1557
01:22:04,840 --> 01:22:07,760
Speaker 1: the way it should be, right. I think that what

1558
01:22:07,800 --> 01:22:11,120
Speaker 1: I'm what what we're trying to do is we're not

1559
01:22:11,120 --> 01:22:12,760
Speaker 1: trying to be the experts. I'm not. I mean, I

1560
01:22:12,960 --> 01:22:14,680
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time in Africa, right, so I

1561
01:22:14,720 --> 01:22:17,360
Speaker 1: have a lot of experience that has given me knowledge.

1562
01:22:18,040 --> 01:22:20,560
Speaker 1: But I'm not an expert, and I don't know you're

1563
01:22:20,560 --> 01:22:24,360
Speaker 1: pretty your expertise is pretty bona fied, Okay, but we're

1564
01:22:24,360 --> 01:22:26,800
Speaker 1: not talking about but I'm not a researcher. I don't

1565
01:22:26,840 --> 01:22:29,800
Speaker 1: live there, even though I have and there are Basically,

1566
01:22:30,160 --> 01:22:32,240
Speaker 1: if we were going to get put on the spot,

1567
01:22:32,479 --> 01:22:34,639
Speaker 1: I would not I would get somebody else who knows

1568
01:22:34,640 --> 01:22:36,760
Speaker 1: more than me there, right, and so on all of

1569
01:22:36,760 --> 01:22:38,880
Speaker 1: these topics and all these issues. I'm trying to bring

1570
01:22:38,920 --> 01:22:42,880
Speaker 1: together a diverse array of perspectives that present what I

1571
01:22:42,920 --> 01:22:47,040
Speaker 1: feel to be constructive conversations, right, to show some diversity,

1572
01:22:47,560 --> 01:22:50,200
Speaker 1: to talk about it in a different way. Um. And

1573
01:22:50,240 --> 01:22:51,760
Speaker 1: it's not that I think that like this is the

1574
01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:54,880
Speaker 1: way it should be Charles always says the term best

1575
01:22:54,960 --> 01:22:57,840
Speaker 1: and could be better practices. Right, These are people that

1576
01:22:57,880 --> 01:23:00,840
Speaker 1: we feel like are doing really good work. Right, doesn't

1577
01:23:00,840 --> 01:23:02,639
Speaker 1: mean that somebody else is bad. And we're not trying

1578
01:23:02,680 --> 01:23:05,960
Speaker 1: to point fingers slap risk, but showing good examples that

1579
01:23:06,000 --> 01:23:10,000
Speaker 1: we feel good about promoting, right, And uh, you know,

1580
01:23:10,040 --> 01:23:11,760
Speaker 1: it's it's it's one of those things that it's it's

1581
01:23:11,800 --> 01:23:15,120
Speaker 1: going to be ever changing, right because the whole hunting

1582
01:23:15,160 --> 01:23:19,160
Speaker 1: is conservation thing right now, it is right, hunting pays

1583
01:23:19,200 --> 01:23:23,240
Speaker 1: for whatever. You know, what's the person that's gonna go down,

1584
01:23:24,800 --> 01:23:27,720
Speaker 1: you know, and so what's the alternative? Right? The alternative

1585
01:23:27,800 --> 01:23:33,200
Speaker 1: has got to be across collaboration with non hunting organizations, right.

1586
01:23:33,240 --> 01:23:35,120
Speaker 1: I mean in Africa the perfect example. I was just

1587
01:23:35,120 --> 01:23:39,400
Speaker 1: in Namibia and there's um, you know there there's these

1588
01:23:39,439 --> 01:23:43,240
Speaker 1: community based conservancies, right where a village gets to decide,

1589
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:47,400
Speaker 1: they participate in the census, they get to decide who

1590
01:23:47,439 --> 01:23:51,479
Speaker 1: gets to hunt. They they vet the outfitter. Uh, they

1591
01:23:51,560 --> 01:23:54,840
Speaker 1: get community hunting privileges, they get the meat, they get

1592
01:23:54,840 --> 01:23:56,960
Speaker 1: the money, they decide how to use the money. Right,

1593
01:23:57,000 --> 01:24:01,960
Speaker 1: they're managing their own wildlife resources. But these areas bump

1594
01:24:02,080 --> 01:24:06,639
Speaker 1: up against photographics so far areas right, and in most

1595
01:24:06,680 --> 01:24:10,800
Speaker 1: cases the photographic lodges were paid for by the community conservancy.

1596
01:24:10,840 --> 01:24:13,760
Speaker 1: So they're now having to have these difficult because these

1597
01:24:13,760 --> 01:24:16,280
Speaker 1: photographic clients come in they're like, oh, this is bullshit.

1598
01:24:16,400 --> 01:24:18,639
Speaker 1: I can't believe you would allow people to murder these animals,

1599
01:24:18,640 --> 01:24:21,759
Speaker 1: Like well, first of all, murder means human. Second of all,

1600
01:24:22,280 --> 01:24:26,720
Speaker 1: this was paid for by that And so those conversations

1601
01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:29,840
Speaker 1: are helping them, you know, in and that allows them

1602
01:24:29,840 --> 01:24:32,880
Speaker 1: to hire more scouts, right, more anti poaching. Now the

1603
01:24:32,920 --> 01:24:36,439
Speaker 1: farmers are invested in protecting the wildlife rather than scaring

1604
01:24:36,520 --> 01:24:38,519
Speaker 1: them off with a pitchfork because they smashed their crops.

1605
01:24:39,160 --> 01:24:44,080
Speaker 1: And so that mixture, right of of non hunting and

1606
01:24:44,160 --> 01:24:46,840
Speaker 1: hunting is that's the only way I I feel like,

1607
01:24:47,000 --> 01:24:49,320
Speaker 1: I don't know what that mixture looks like. But the

1608
01:24:49,360 --> 01:24:52,479
Speaker 1: conversations are starting now, and and those are conversations we

1609
01:24:52,479 --> 01:24:55,920
Speaker 1: were having in Africa, um and and it's something that

1610
01:24:55,960 --> 01:24:58,000
Speaker 1: actually we're probably gonna do a story on. Is is

1611
01:24:58,040 --> 01:25:02,639
Speaker 1: plant someone in these lodges an interview photographic Safari people

1612
01:25:02,680 --> 01:25:04,360
Speaker 1: as they come through, like, Hey, how do you feel

1613
01:25:04,400 --> 01:25:07,120
Speaker 1: about the fact that this place was funded by community

1614
01:25:07,160 --> 01:25:12,720
Speaker 1: based hunting. You know, that's what I mean. Yeah, that's

1615
01:25:12,760 --> 01:25:14,439
Speaker 1: That's where I'm at two, And I wonder there's a

1616
01:25:14,479 --> 01:25:16,760
Speaker 1: lot of things where this manifests itself. The point that

1617
01:25:16,800 --> 01:25:20,120
Speaker 1: I'm making about wanting to say, this is the way

1618
01:25:20,160 --> 01:25:23,320
Speaker 1: I think about hunting. You should love hunting the way

1619
01:25:23,360 --> 01:25:26,000
Speaker 1: I love it. And then people come walking into, you know,

1620
01:25:26,200 --> 01:25:28,479
Speaker 1: the tent in which we've invited them to come into,

1621
01:25:28,520 --> 01:25:30,040
Speaker 1: and they look around there, Wait a minute, what's that

1622
01:25:30,080 --> 01:25:33,280
Speaker 1: over there? Like, well, that's kind of that's Grandpaul, he's

1623
01:25:33,360 --> 01:25:36,320
Speaker 1: over there. And so that's manifests itself in a lot

1624
01:25:36,360 --> 01:25:41,000
Speaker 1: of things. We say harvest not kill. We like, we've

1625
01:25:41,040 --> 01:25:43,360
Speaker 1: watered down some of the things in an effort to

1626
01:25:43,880 --> 01:25:47,519
Speaker 1: better message, but we've also watered down the realities. So

1627
01:25:47,560 --> 01:25:50,479
Speaker 1: how do you balance that? Because I will do that

1628
01:25:50,520 --> 01:25:52,680
Speaker 1: all the time, But so how do you use this

1629
01:25:52,720 --> 01:25:55,600
Speaker 1: example before? Too? So think about if you're talking to

1630
01:25:55,600 --> 01:25:58,559
Speaker 1: your wife right and you're maybe you're feeling in the

1631
01:25:58,560 --> 01:26:01,519
Speaker 1: mood there's a friends and saying I would like to

1632
01:26:01,560 --> 01:26:05,360
Speaker 1: make love or I would like to screw. That's true, okay,

1633
01:26:05,479 --> 01:26:08,400
Speaker 1: So think of it that way. The choice of words

1634
01:26:08,479 --> 01:26:12,679
Speaker 1: and the tone that those words inject and that's kind

1635
01:26:12,720 --> 01:26:16,040
Speaker 1: of the whole basis of this is do we need

1636
01:26:16,080 --> 01:26:20,080
Speaker 1: to apologize? No? Do we need to change our lifestyles?

1637
01:26:20,520 --> 01:26:23,639
Speaker 1: And in most cases no, do we need to change

1638
01:26:23,680 --> 01:26:25,720
Speaker 1: the way that we present ourselves and the way that

1639
01:26:25,760 --> 01:26:29,480
Speaker 1: we communicate with people who aren't in the hunt in industry? Yeah, absolutely,

1640
01:26:29,560 --> 01:26:32,120
Speaker 1: in a major way, or it's going to get worse.

1641
01:26:32,840 --> 01:26:35,880
Speaker 1: And and so I think that, um, you know, that's

1642
01:26:35,880 --> 01:26:38,280
Speaker 1: that's kind of what it is. And and it's uh.

1643
01:26:38,439 --> 01:26:40,880
Speaker 1: And instead of saying, Okay, we're backed up against the ropes,

1644
01:26:40,960 --> 01:26:44,160
Speaker 1: we're gonna start swinging. Just get out of the ring

1645
01:26:44,200 --> 01:26:45,800
Speaker 1: for a second, be like, you know what, let's have

1646
01:26:45,840 --> 01:26:50,360
Speaker 1: a beer, Let's take a break. I'm not good at

1647
01:26:50,360 --> 01:26:53,960
Speaker 1: boxing anyway. So which isn't true, by the way, Yeah,

1648
01:26:54,000 --> 01:26:58,000
Speaker 1: you're telling me not. I think it's it's it's one

1649
01:26:59,120 --> 01:27:01,600
Speaker 1: people who know me will know. It's a willingness to

1650
01:27:01,600 --> 01:27:06,040
Speaker 1: have the conversation, like the strength of conviction to know, like,

1651
01:27:06,080 --> 01:27:07,479
Speaker 1: I love this thing. I want to I want to

1652
01:27:07,479 --> 01:27:09,439
Speaker 1: have every single conversation I could possibly have to make

1653
01:27:09,479 --> 01:27:12,080
Speaker 1: it better. I want to show that in my actions.

1654
01:27:12,120 --> 01:27:14,840
Speaker 1: I would show that in my creative work, which which

1655
01:27:14,880 --> 01:27:18,120
Speaker 1: is um, which which is what modern huntsman is But like,

1656
01:27:18,200 --> 01:27:22,800
Speaker 1: continue to believe that this is good, believe that it

1657
01:27:22,840 --> 01:27:28,679
Speaker 1: needs better pr and believe that I, me, you, whomever

1658
01:27:29,200 --> 01:27:32,320
Speaker 1: can be a part of that change. Is that change

1659
01:27:32,360 --> 01:27:35,160
Speaker 1: gonna is there gonna be some spasmatic pushback from any

1660
01:27:35,240 --> 01:27:37,880
Speaker 1: change or any kind of like stated purpose like that.

1661
01:27:37,960 --> 01:27:41,280
Speaker 1: Of course there's going to be. UM, but I think

1662
01:27:41,320 --> 01:27:44,439
Speaker 1: there's You've been tested. I've been tethering. People will test you.

1663
01:27:44,600 --> 01:27:47,280
Speaker 1: Do you really believe this? How much do you believe this?

1664
01:27:47,680 --> 01:27:49,439
Speaker 1: How much are you willing to stand by the thing

1665
01:27:49,479 --> 01:27:51,360
Speaker 1: that you said that's controversial with the thing that you

1666
01:27:51,400 --> 01:27:54,920
Speaker 1: said that not everyone agrees with. Um, it's tough. You

1667
01:27:54,960 --> 01:27:58,200
Speaker 1: talk about being close to brands. I'm close to brands.

1668
01:27:58,240 --> 01:28:01,519
Speaker 1: We have people that help fund what we do or

1669
01:28:01,640 --> 01:28:04,240
Speaker 1: part of what we do, and it's hard to challenge

1670
01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:09,559
Speaker 1: cultural norms in that in that over branded environment. Yeah,

1671
01:28:09,560 --> 01:28:11,679
Speaker 1: And and I want to clarify, I don't I don't

1672
01:28:11,760 --> 01:28:15,000
Speaker 1: mean that every single person needs to do this. I

1673
01:28:15,040 --> 01:28:18,280
Speaker 1: think that, uh, that there are always going to be

1674
01:28:19,040 --> 01:28:22,240
Speaker 1: you know, individuals who choose to be the mouthpiece or

1675
01:28:22,360 --> 01:28:25,360
Speaker 1: the vagabonds or whatever it is. That this isn't like, oh,

1676
01:28:25,360 --> 01:28:28,320
Speaker 1: everybody needs to become better. It's more about an awareness

1677
01:28:28,600 --> 01:28:31,920
Speaker 1: of the need for it. Right. And I know that

1678
01:28:31,960 --> 01:28:34,880
Speaker 1: not everybody is gonna agree with what I say or

1679
01:28:34,960 --> 01:28:37,080
Speaker 1: that is going to support modern huntsmen. And it doesn't

1680
01:28:37,080 --> 01:28:38,519
Speaker 1: matter what I say or what I do. There's gonna

1681
01:28:38,520 --> 01:28:41,280
Speaker 1: be some people who just hardline in the sand against

1682
01:28:41,320 --> 01:28:44,519
Speaker 1: it for whatever reason, and that's fine. I would just

1683
01:28:44,600 --> 01:28:48,760
Speaker 1: hope that they would have the ability to understand what

1684
01:28:48,800 --> 01:28:52,160
Speaker 1: we're trying to accomplish, and in the same way that

1685
01:28:52,200 --> 01:28:55,479
Speaker 1: the diplomats and conservationists and statesmen before us had a

1686
01:28:55,520 --> 01:29:00,080
Speaker 1: sense of of classy competition, you know, to just I

1687
01:29:00,120 --> 01:29:03,680
Speaker 1: couldn't respectfully disagree, right instead of drag it through the

1688
01:29:03,760 --> 01:29:06,880
Speaker 1: mud or or debase it for for some reason that

1689
01:29:07,040 --> 01:29:10,959
Speaker 1: isn't true. Um, And that's still gonna happen, right, Um.

1690
01:29:11,000 --> 01:29:13,559
Speaker 1: But you know, situations like this to be able to,

1691
01:29:13,840 --> 01:29:16,320
Speaker 1: for the first time ever, actually talk about this with you, um,

1692
01:29:16,360 --> 01:29:21,320
Speaker 1: about what what it? Why? Yeah? I mean, and I'm

1693
01:29:21,360 --> 01:29:23,800
Speaker 1: it's like I always beat this drum a lot. But

1694
01:29:23,880 --> 01:29:27,799
Speaker 1: I feel like the reason that that this is interesting

1695
01:29:27,840 --> 01:29:29,880
Speaker 1: to me, and the reason hunting and supporting ethics are

1696
01:29:29,920 --> 01:29:33,920
Speaker 1: interesting to me, and the reason that conservation other than

1697
01:29:33,960 --> 01:29:37,840
Speaker 1: it's tangible benefits. Is interesting to me is because as

1698
01:29:37,840 --> 01:29:41,240
Speaker 1: a practice, it's always shifting and moving and growing. Ecology

1699
01:29:41,320 --> 01:29:44,160
Speaker 1: is that way. Ecosystems are that way. The outside world

1700
01:29:44,200 --> 01:29:47,599
Speaker 1: is that way, always moving, shifting, growing, changing. You always

1701
01:29:47,640 --> 01:29:50,759
Speaker 1: have to react to what's happening. You can't always manage

1702
01:29:50,760 --> 01:29:53,400
Speaker 1: wildlife in the way that you've always managed wildlife, and

1703
01:29:53,439 --> 01:29:55,599
Speaker 1: you can't always talk about hunting the way you've always

1704
01:29:55,600 --> 01:29:59,000
Speaker 1: talked about hunting and then and you can't always practice

1705
01:29:59,040 --> 01:30:01,799
Speaker 1: ethical boundary like place your ethical boundaries in the same places.

1706
01:30:01,840 --> 01:30:04,320
Speaker 1: You have to move and shift them around based on

1707
01:30:04,720 --> 01:30:07,760
Speaker 1: you know, your personal experiences in your situation. So that's

1708
01:30:07,760 --> 01:30:10,479
Speaker 1: why they're there. Is it's endlessly interesting to me. It

1709
01:30:10,520 --> 01:30:14,280
Speaker 1: may it may never come to a conclusion, likely will never,

1710
01:30:15,479 --> 01:30:18,360
Speaker 1: but that's the that's that's what hunting is, honey. Is

1711
01:30:18,400 --> 01:30:21,200
Speaker 1: this this tangible activity that is always moving and always

1712
01:30:21,240 --> 01:30:24,760
Speaker 1: changed within who we are, what we do, our humanity.

1713
01:30:24,840 --> 01:30:27,840
Speaker 1: For Christ's sakes. That may be overstating it, I mean

1714
01:30:27,880 --> 01:30:30,280
Speaker 1: it is. That's how I feel about it. Yeah, Well,

1715
01:30:30,320 --> 01:30:33,720
Speaker 1: and it's funny because I I always I had this realization.

1716
01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:36,120
Speaker 1: I think it was maybe two thousand and eight, two

1717
01:30:36,120 --> 01:30:37,960
Speaker 1: thousand nine. I had just come back from Pakistan where

1718
01:30:38,000 --> 01:30:39,680
Speaker 1: where we were it was a shock game. We were

1719
01:30:39,680 --> 01:30:43,960
Speaker 1: filming the Ibex Hunt up there, and UM we stayed.

1720
01:30:44,000 --> 01:30:46,240
Speaker 1: I stayed for an additional three weeks. I'm gonna tell

1721
01:30:46,240 --> 01:30:48,200
Speaker 1: a site story and I'll come back to that with

1722
01:30:48,280 --> 01:30:52,720
Speaker 1: Corey's brother Buck Milton, who side note leak got noodling

1723
01:30:53,120 --> 01:30:57,960
Speaker 1: legalized in the state of Texas, and we stayed in

1724
01:30:57,960 --> 01:31:00,960
Speaker 1: Pakistan for another three weeks. One of the most to

1725
01:31:00,960 --> 01:31:03,360
Speaker 1: play amazing places I've ever been. Um. And we we

1726
01:31:03,439 --> 01:31:05,639
Speaker 1: had a little guide who took us around and saw

1727
01:31:06,040 --> 01:31:09,960
Speaker 1: museums and went hunting, and we had grown beards out

1728
01:31:10,000 --> 01:31:11,800
Speaker 1: and we were wearing the Shalwar kimies just to try

1729
01:31:11,840 --> 01:31:14,400
Speaker 1: to blend in a little bit. And Um we were

1730
01:31:14,960 --> 01:31:19,200
Speaker 1: in Lahore, which is I believe, the capital, and um

1731
01:31:19,240 --> 01:31:21,639
Speaker 1: Brady and I will Buck and I were driving around

1732
01:31:21,800 --> 01:31:23,800
Speaker 1: and we were in like a Toyota cambri So and

1733
01:31:23,800 --> 01:31:25,680
Speaker 1: it was clean and it wasn't dented up, so it's

1734
01:31:25,680 --> 01:31:27,920
Speaker 1: a pretty nice car for their and this guide is

1735
01:31:28,040 --> 01:31:29,840
Speaker 1: driving us and we're going down this road and there's

1736
01:31:29,880 --> 01:31:33,519
Speaker 1: like donkeys jumping on cars and just madness, and this

1737
01:31:33,680 --> 01:31:37,439
Speaker 1: cop car just comes screaming up next to us, runs

1738
01:31:37,479 --> 01:31:40,640
Speaker 1: us off the road, screaming pointed to get out of

1739
01:31:40,640 --> 01:31:42,760
Speaker 1: the car, aims his gun at my head, you know,

1740
01:31:42,840 --> 01:31:47,080
Speaker 1: shouting at me and Urdu and u and we uh,

1741
01:31:47,160 --> 01:31:49,799
Speaker 1: we had no idea what was going on. And uh

1742
01:31:49,840 --> 01:31:52,200
Speaker 1: it turns out there had been a terrorist attack. And

1743
01:31:52,280 --> 01:31:55,200
Speaker 1: I fit the description of one of the terrorists. Remember

1744
01:31:55,200 --> 01:31:57,920
Speaker 1: that famous national geographic picture of the girl, the Afghani girl,

1745
01:31:58,400 --> 01:32:02,080
Speaker 1: She's Patan, which is a re in Pakistan. Um. That

1746
01:32:02,240 --> 01:32:04,640
Speaker 1: just so happened that these gunmen were from there, and

1747
01:32:04,680 --> 01:32:07,400
Speaker 1: so I literally it was a green eyed, dark haired,

1748
01:32:07,479 --> 01:32:10,400
Speaker 1: got light skinned guy. So I almost got gunned down

1749
01:32:10,439 --> 01:32:14,000
Speaker 1: on the side of the road in Pakistan and um

1750
01:32:14,080 --> 01:32:16,040
Speaker 1: and and after that, you know, we showed them our

1751
01:32:16,080 --> 01:32:19,479
Speaker 1: passports are like, oh hey, oh friendly at this point.

1752
01:32:19,800 --> 01:32:24,840
Speaker 1: So uh. And then I went home and I when

1753
01:32:24,880 --> 01:32:26,720
Speaker 1: I would try to tell this story, or actually I

1754
01:32:26,760 --> 01:32:29,240
Speaker 1: don't even think I ever told my mom that's that story.

1755
01:32:29,280 --> 01:32:31,479
Speaker 1: But when I try to tell any story or have

1756
01:32:31,560 --> 01:32:35,320
Speaker 1: a conversation, I think about my small town Texas mother.

1757
01:32:36,120 --> 01:32:38,000
Speaker 1: How do I tell the story in a way that

1758
01:32:38,080 --> 01:32:40,600
Speaker 1: she will take something away from it right, that she

1759
01:32:40,680 --> 01:32:44,080
Speaker 1: can understand it, that can't be so in the weeds

1760
01:32:44,160 --> 01:32:47,360
Speaker 1: and and you know, jargon and big words and and

1761
01:32:47,520 --> 01:32:49,960
Speaker 1: based on individual experience only that it's got to be

1762
01:32:50,040 --> 01:32:52,600
Speaker 1: something that you know. And I and I need to

1763
01:32:52,720 --> 01:32:54,400
Speaker 1: I say this every time. I need to look up

1764
01:32:54,439 --> 01:32:56,240
Speaker 1: whose quote this actually was. But it was one of

1765
01:32:56,280 --> 01:33:01,120
Speaker 1: the classics, right, Galileo, Aristotle, somebody, somebody real, and they said,

1766
01:33:01,160 --> 01:33:04,760
Speaker 1: what good is wisdom if the common man can't understand it? Right?

1767
01:33:04,800 --> 01:33:08,240
Speaker 1: And so I think that's kind of the goal, is

1768
01:33:08,520 --> 01:33:12,280
Speaker 1: to present what are otherwise perceived to be pretty controversial

1769
01:33:12,360 --> 01:33:15,599
Speaker 1: or complex topics in a way that not only the

1770
01:33:15,640 --> 01:33:18,880
Speaker 1: common person can understand from a storytelling point, but also

1771
01:33:18,960 --> 01:33:22,280
Speaker 1: somebody who has zero access, were very limited access to

1772
01:33:23,280 --> 01:33:26,080
Speaker 1: a background in hunting, you know, the way of a

1773
01:33:26,120 --> 01:33:27,880
Speaker 1: segment on the show called Damn Near Died. I was

1774
01:33:27,880 --> 01:33:29,719
Speaker 1: gonna ask you later on about it, but I feel

1775
01:33:29,720 --> 01:33:32,760
Speaker 1: like you've given yeah, like three of them. I've there's

1776
01:33:32,760 --> 01:33:35,559
Speaker 1: been a lot. Actually there was one that happened two

1777
01:33:35,600 --> 01:33:37,840
Speaker 1: days ago. Okay, this this one's gonna be sponsored by

1778
01:33:37,880 --> 01:33:41,720
Speaker 1: federal premium. You possibly apply to the other three with

1779
01:33:41,800 --> 01:33:44,719
Speaker 1: this one, we're going to controversial. It's sponsored by federal premium.

1780
01:33:44,760 --> 01:33:48,480
Speaker 1: But we'll see, so they'll like. I was in Yellowstone

1781
01:33:48,920 --> 01:33:52,200
Speaker 1: and I was fishing with a buddy, UM on Sunday,

1782
01:33:52,280 --> 01:33:54,800
Speaker 1: so a couple of days ago, and he left, he

1783
01:33:55,120 --> 01:33:58,120
Speaker 1: went back to Bozeman, and I was taking my time, UM,

1784
01:33:58,120 --> 01:34:01,400
Speaker 1: coming up from the West Entrance, up towards Gardner and

1785
01:34:01,439 --> 01:34:04,640
Speaker 1: past the Norris geyser basins, and UM, I wanted to

1786
01:34:04,680 --> 01:34:06,759
Speaker 1: stop somewhere and just kind of get out and enjoy myself.

1787
01:34:06,760 --> 01:34:08,920
Speaker 1: So I stopped. I saw this like nondescript pull out

1788
01:34:08,960 --> 01:34:11,599
Speaker 1: with no trail head pulled out and I could see

1789
01:34:11,600 --> 01:34:13,320
Speaker 1: some steam coming from down there. I was like, oh,

1790
01:34:13,400 --> 01:34:14,680
Speaker 1: it's kind of cool. I've never been down the I'm

1791
01:34:14,680 --> 01:34:17,479
Speaker 1: gonna go check it out. So I get my binos,

1792
01:34:17,520 --> 01:34:20,040
Speaker 1: get the bear spray, get some water, go down there,

1793
01:34:20,240 --> 01:34:24,320
Speaker 1: and UM, it's this really cool, open, scalded white area

1794
01:34:24,479 --> 01:34:26,360
Speaker 1: with steam coming up everywhere. And I was like, I

1795
01:34:26,400 --> 01:34:28,880
Speaker 1: don't want to fall into a volcano. I'm gonna stay

1796
01:34:28,920 --> 01:34:31,040
Speaker 1: close to the tree line. So I follow the tree line.

1797
01:34:31,080 --> 01:34:33,280
Speaker 1: I go down there for twenty minutes, thirty minutes, kind

1798
01:34:33,280 --> 01:34:36,320
Speaker 1: of explore, find this huge pool that's like spring fed. Like, okay,

1799
01:34:36,320 --> 01:34:38,280
Speaker 1: I should probably start going back, So I come back

1800
01:34:39,040 --> 01:34:41,559
Speaker 1: and in the same way that you can sense when

1801
01:34:41,560 --> 01:34:44,599
Speaker 1: a lion is close, Like, all of a sudden, I

1802
01:34:44,600 --> 01:34:48,200
Speaker 1: could feel that there was a bear like right there,

1803
01:34:49,160 --> 01:34:53,240
Speaker 1: and I froze and like grab the bear spray and

1804
01:34:53,400 --> 01:34:57,719
Speaker 1: hurt them right And I kind of started to sneak

1805
01:34:58,240 --> 01:35:01,040
Speaker 1: towards the direction I thought was the opposite way, and

1806
01:35:01,040 --> 01:35:05,479
Speaker 1: then I see another pair of tracks right there, and

1807
01:35:05,520 --> 01:35:07,040
Speaker 1: I go a little bit further and I see two

1808
01:35:07,040 --> 01:35:10,800
Speaker 1: more pairs of tracks. There was four bears. And I

1809
01:35:10,840 --> 01:35:13,320
Speaker 1: was like, well, you know, I mean, I just got

1810
01:35:13,320 --> 01:35:15,720
Speaker 1: goose bumps again, and uh, and I was, you know,

1811
01:35:16,040 --> 01:35:18,120
Speaker 1: on high alert. I started kind of kicking rocks and

1812
01:35:18,160 --> 01:35:20,960
Speaker 1: trying to make a little bit of noise um and

1813
01:35:21,160 --> 01:35:24,760
Speaker 1: just I didn't run, but just started to briskly move

1814
01:35:24,840 --> 01:35:27,400
Speaker 1: towards my truck. And I get up the hill and

1815
01:35:27,400 --> 01:35:29,360
Speaker 1: I get back to my truck and this park ranger

1816
01:35:29,400 --> 01:35:31,479
Speaker 1: comes driving up slams on his breaks, like, oh my god,

1817
01:35:31,560 --> 01:35:33,000
Speaker 1: is this your tacoma? I was like yeah. He's like,

1818
01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:34,840
Speaker 1: thank God, you're alive. I'm like, what are you talking about.

1819
01:35:35,000 --> 01:35:37,880
Speaker 1: He's like, we just chased this super aggressive female and

1820
01:35:37,880 --> 01:35:40,880
Speaker 1: her three cubs off the road down to exactly where

1821
01:35:40,920 --> 01:35:44,599
Speaker 1: you were and so probably with him thirty seconds this

1822
01:35:44,760 --> 01:35:47,400
Speaker 1: like piste off female and her three cubs came running

1823
01:35:47,439 --> 01:35:52,519
Speaker 1: through there and I missed the tracks by like this much. Yeah,

1824
01:35:52,640 --> 01:35:54,400
Speaker 1: they would have just kept running with you in the

1825
01:35:54,560 --> 01:35:57,120
Speaker 1: in their mouth probably, and so he was and then

1826
01:35:57,120 --> 01:35:59,880
Speaker 1: he kind of made light of it, you know, but yeah,

1827
01:36:00,120 --> 01:36:04,400
Speaker 1: pretty much and your body. So yeah, that was a

1828
01:36:04,479 --> 01:36:07,920
Speaker 1: that was an exciting end to the Yellowstone Trip on Sunday.

1829
01:36:07,960 --> 01:36:09,960
Speaker 1: Well good, you got but like four damn near dies

1830
01:36:09,960 --> 01:36:14,360
Speaker 1: in one podcast. Then we've there's more if you need

1831
01:36:14,400 --> 01:36:17,479
Speaker 1: him sometimes yeah, well maybe yeah, maybe I'll have you

1832
01:36:17,479 --> 01:36:21,400
Speaker 1: called others like seed danger ship that you've done to them.

1833
01:36:21,439 --> 01:36:23,800
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean I think all this man, all

1834
01:36:23,880 --> 01:36:28,080
Speaker 1: this conversation for me, I can I can get repetitive

1835
01:36:28,120 --> 01:36:31,200
Speaker 1: for me. So it's nice to have you come here

1836
01:36:31,200 --> 01:36:34,200
Speaker 1: and just kind of explain what your mission is, what

1837
01:36:34,280 --> 01:36:36,519
Speaker 1: the purpose of Moner huntsman is, and your your vision

1838
01:36:36,600 --> 01:36:40,800
Speaker 1: for it. Because I've been I've been in journalism for

1839
01:36:41,000 --> 01:36:45,000
Speaker 1: you know, to eleven years something like that. Um, I

1840
01:36:45,040 --> 01:36:50,439
Speaker 1: think every print writer, every creative that puts together media

1841
01:36:51,240 --> 01:36:53,519
Speaker 1: would take a look at modern hunts and be like

1842
01:36:53,760 --> 01:36:56,599
Speaker 1: this is good, Like it's it's good for a lot

1843
01:36:56,600 --> 01:37:00,120
Speaker 1: of reasons. It's quality paper, it's good photography, it's all

1844
01:37:00,160 --> 01:37:03,800
Speaker 1: thought out. It's a diverse um and and not only

1845
01:37:03,840 --> 01:37:07,080
Speaker 1: in its subject matter, but in its personalities and then

1846
01:37:07,160 --> 01:37:10,840
Speaker 1: the characters within it. So you know, that's what I think,

1847
01:37:11,120 --> 01:37:14,320
Speaker 1: and I thought that since the beginning, and so kudos

1848
01:37:14,320 --> 01:37:16,200
Speaker 1: for that. I think it stands out in that way

1849
01:37:16,760 --> 01:37:19,280
Speaker 1: above a lot of things that are done in its

1850
01:37:19,360 --> 01:37:21,560
Speaker 1: own way. So and it's and it's got its own personality,

1851
01:37:21,600 --> 01:37:24,320
Speaker 1: like it's got its own function within the world. It's

1852
01:37:24,360 --> 01:37:26,960
Speaker 1: clear to me. Um, So thanks for that. I think

1853
01:37:27,880 --> 01:37:31,639
Speaker 1: there's no bad effort, there's no there's it's a net

1854
01:37:31,640 --> 01:37:34,720
Speaker 1: positive no matter how it chakes out well, you know,

1855
01:37:34,760 --> 01:37:37,240
Speaker 1: and it's one of those things where we're gonna stumble

1856
01:37:37,360 --> 01:37:40,320
Speaker 1: or and it you know how high the stakes are, right,

1857
01:37:40,800 --> 01:37:44,800
Speaker 1: So it's so difficult to move forward in you know,

1858
01:37:44,840 --> 01:37:46,240
Speaker 1: the way that you feel like it's the right way,

1859
01:37:46,240 --> 01:37:48,200
Speaker 1: because if you say the wrong thing, you do the

1860
01:37:48,240 --> 01:37:49,799
Speaker 1: wrong thing a lot of times, a lot of cases,

1861
01:37:49,960 --> 01:37:52,600
Speaker 1: you can't take it back right or it could be

1862
01:37:52,640 --> 01:37:55,479
Speaker 1: the end. And uh, and so it is, you know,

1863
01:37:55,600 --> 01:37:58,880
Speaker 1: the stakes feel very high. And uh. And I remember

1864
01:37:58,880 --> 01:38:01,559
Speaker 1: trying to explain to my mom, and she was like, Tyler,

1865
01:38:01,680 --> 01:38:03,559
Speaker 1: She's like, it sounds like you're just having head first

1866
01:38:03,600 --> 01:38:08,559
Speaker 1: into controversy. Your mom's your mom's Texas was like pretty

1867
01:38:08,680 --> 01:38:11,400
Speaker 1: pretty much. Actually your thank you for pointing that out.

1868
01:38:11,400 --> 01:38:15,679
Speaker 1: What's wrong with you? Tyler? Come on? Actually, side note,

1869
01:38:16,280 --> 01:38:18,559
Speaker 1: My first name is actually William. I go by William Tyler,

1870
01:38:19,240 --> 01:38:21,160
Speaker 1: and which was a pain in the ass growing up

1871
01:38:21,200 --> 01:38:23,519
Speaker 1: because you you know, you get called in elementary school

1872
01:38:23,560 --> 01:38:25,720
Speaker 1: and they're like WILLIAMS Sharpe. I'd have to say here,

1873
01:38:25,760 --> 01:38:27,080
Speaker 1: but I go by Tyler and then all the kids

1874
01:38:27,120 --> 01:38:29,160
Speaker 1: make fun of you. Straight up. I asked her about

1875
01:38:29,200 --> 01:38:31,160
Speaker 1: five years ago, why did you name me William Tyler

1876
01:38:31,200 --> 01:38:32,840
Speaker 1: and decided to go by my middle name, and her

1877
01:38:32,920 --> 01:38:35,679
Speaker 1: straight answer she goes, well, I nine you William Tyler

1878
01:38:35,720 --> 01:38:37,080
Speaker 1: because I hope when you grew up we call you

1879
01:38:37,120 --> 01:38:42,280
Speaker 1: Billy T. So if modern Huntsman crashes and burns and

1880
01:38:42,320 --> 01:38:44,680
Speaker 1: I failed, you see this, I'm going to become an

1881
01:38:44,680 --> 01:38:47,519
Speaker 1: outlaw country singer named Billy. So look out, we look

1882
01:38:47,560 --> 01:38:50,439
Speaker 1: at release. Look actually, please don't look out, because that

1883
01:38:50,479 --> 01:38:52,280
Speaker 1: would be a bad sign, would be terrible. Yeah, I

1884
01:38:52,320 --> 01:38:53,720
Speaker 1: want to look at some of the people that are

1885
01:38:53,720 --> 01:38:56,200
Speaker 1: in volume three Wins Volume three come out, so it

1886
01:38:56,320 --> 01:38:59,280
Speaker 1: should be shipping hopefully next week. By the time you

1887
01:38:59,320 --> 01:39:02,320
Speaker 1: hear this will be out in the world. So um

1888
01:39:02,479 --> 01:39:05,400
Speaker 1: go go pick it up. You got this is this

1889
01:39:05,479 --> 01:39:09,040
Speaker 1: is to to your credit. You have due perfect people

1890
01:39:09,040 --> 01:39:13,320
Speaker 1: tell people who do perfect. So they are five just

1891
01:39:13,520 --> 01:39:16,360
Speaker 1: friends from Texas who started making trick shot videos in

1892
01:39:16,360 --> 01:39:18,519
Speaker 1: their backyard. And I didn't know this, but the first

1893
01:39:18,600 --> 01:39:21,000
Speaker 1: YouTube video they ever posted, Good Morning America called them

1894
01:39:21,040 --> 01:39:24,519
Speaker 1: the next day and since then they have become They

1895
01:39:24,680 --> 01:39:27,320
Speaker 1: fluctuated between number one and number two YouTube channel in

1896
01:39:27,360 --> 01:39:29,320
Speaker 1: the world. They got a show on like what Nickelodeon

1897
01:39:29,560 --> 01:39:32,080
Speaker 1: they did, They have a partnership with bass pro and

1898
01:39:32,160 --> 01:39:34,559
Speaker 1: all that. But I think they have about forty million.

1899
01:39:34,600 --> 01:39:36,559
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's more by the time we've done the interview.

1900
01:39:37,080 --> 01:39:40,439
Speaker 1: But they're big hunters and so they have struggled with

1901
01:39:40,720 --> 01:39:43,959
Speaker 1: being able to communicate about their hunting. They they realized

1902
01:39:44,000 --> 01:39:45,800
Speaker 1: that dude perfects that channel. People aren't going to that

1903
01:39:45,840 --> 01:39:49,360
Speaker 1: channel to learn about hunting, but on their personal social media. Um.

1904
01:39:49,400 --> 01:39:51,680
Speaker 1: So it was a cool conversation to hear about. You know,

1905
01:39:51,800 --> 01:39:56,400
Speaker 1: what their plans are and what ways they see being

1906
01:39:56,400 --> 01:39:59,719
Speaker 1: able to use their platform to help further this mission.

1907
01:39:59,760 --> 01:40:02,280
Speaker 1: And and and they're, you know, very much aware of

1908
01:40:02,320 --> 01:40:06,960
Speaker 1: the importance of tone and in their own content. So yeah,

1909
01:40:07,000 --> 01:40:08,680
Speaker 1: and they do. They're all texts boys, or at least

1910
01:40:08,680 --> 01:40:10,439
Speaker 1: some of them are, right. Yeah, no, I think they

1911
01:40:10,439 --> 01:40:15,320
Speaker 1: all are. You have our buddy Jesse Griffiths in here. Yeah. Yeah,

1912
01:40:15,439 --> 01:40:18,200
Speaker 1: Jesse's great, and it was cool to give him a

1913
01:40:18,200 --> 01:40:21,960
Speaker 1: platform to talk about his hog obsession and he's talked

1914
01:40:22,000 --> 01:40:24,080
Speaker 1: about it on this podcast. Yeah. I could listen to

1915
01:40:24,160 --> 01:40:27,080
Speaker 1: him talk about Yea, he has a forthcoming. Uh, it's

1916
01:40:27,120 --> 01:40:29,080
Speaker 1: like a cookbook. It's like it's a second So it's

1917
01:40:29,200 --> 01:40:31,880
Speaker 1: a sequel to a Field and I think it. I

1918
01:40:31,920 --> 01:40:34,120
Speaker 1: don't know if it has the same name, but it's

1919
01:40:34,200 --> 01:40:36,400
Speaker 1: much more focused on Hawks. That's all I told. He

1920
01:40:36,439 --> 01:40:38,400
Speaker 1: explained it to me. This is I'm doing a book

1921
01:40:38,400 --> 01:40:41,920
Speaker 1: about Farrell Hawks. Yeah, which is awesome. I am. You

1922
01:40:41,960 --> 01:40:45,000
Speaker 1: have Simon Roosevelt, Yeah, yeah, talk about I don't think

1923
01:40:45,000 --> 01:40:46,559
Speaker 1: a lot of people know who Simon is. Talking about

1924
01:40:46,560 --> 01:40:49,320
Speaker 1: your relations he's kind of a dark course. Um So,

1925
01:40:49,320 --> 01:40:54,120
Speaker 1: Simon is the great great grandson of tr And I

1926
01:40:54,240 --> 01:40:57,639
Speaker 1: met Simon at Dal Safari Club probably five years ago,

1927
01:40:58,320 --> 01:41:01,240
Speaker 1: and um I remember he was he's working on a

1928
01:41:01,240 --> 01:41:04,400
Speaker 1: book currently. I believe Andy Anderson shooting the book, and

1929
01:41:04,560 --> 01:41:08,160
Speaker 1: it's about hunting's role in conservation in North America broken

1930
01:41:08,160 --> 01:41:11,360
Speaker 1: into different regions and uh and and I was having

1931
01:41:11,400 --> 01:41:14,080
Speaker 1: a conversation with him at Michelle Montiaka's booth, my friend

1932
01:41:14,080 --> 01:41:16,200
Speaker 1: from Tanzania. I had no idea who he was. I

1933
01:41:16,280 --> 01:41:17,680
Speaker 1: was like, oh, well, I'd love to contribute to the

1934
01:41:17,680 --> 01:41:20,200
Speaker 1: book if you're looking traditional photos. And he's like, yeah, yeah.

1935
01:41:20,200 --> 01:41:22,160
Speaker 1: He gave me his card and walked away. And I

1936
01:41:22,160 --> 01:41:23,679
Speaker 1: look at the card and it says from the office

1937
01:41:23,680 --> 01:41:26,040
Speaker 1: of Simon Roosevelt and Alison Rockefeller. And I was like,

1938
01:41:26,080 --> 01:41:28,800
Speaker 1: holy shit. And I look over and Michelle is like,

1939
01:41:28,840 --> 01:41:31,439
Speaker 1: you have some luck, my friend. So anyways, I ended

1940
01:41:31,479 --> 01:41:33,479
Speaker 1: up going on a couple hunts with him, photographing, and

1941
01:41:33,520 --> 01:41:36,479
Speaker 1: this was way before we launched Modern Huntsman. So from

1942
01:41:36,479 --> 01:41:39,760
Speaker 1: the beginning he's been my main advisor and uh in

1943
01:41:39,840 --> 01:41:43,759
Speaker 1: terms of understanding the landscape and the history. And Simon,

1944
01:41:44,280 --> 01:41:46,920
Speaker 1: you know, is old enough that he's you know, been

1945
01:41:47,040 --> 01:41:49,760
Speaker 1: part of that, but he thinks much more progressively. And

1946
01:41:49,800 --> 01:41:52,200
Speaker 1: so when he saw what we were doing, he said,

1947
01:41:52,240 --> 01:41:54,040
Speaker 1: I really believe that this is something that could work.

1948
01:41:54,439 --> 01:41:56,240
Speaker 1: I would like to do whatever I can to help you.

1949
01:41:56,920 --> 01:41:59,559
Speaker 1: And so he's been very instrumental in helping me introduce

1950
01:41:59,560 --> 01:42:02,080
Speaker 1: introduced me to people, but then also give me feedback

1951
01:42:02,160 --> 01:42:06,439
Speaker 1: often which is very harsh about you know, what we're doing.

1952
01:42:06,560 --> 01:42:09,680
Speaker 1: And so um, yeah, he's been invaluable. And uh, you

1953
01:42:09,720 --> 01:42:12,720
Speaker 1: know he he wrote a pretty strong piece in this one.

1954
01:42:12,760 --> 01:42:14,880
Speaker 1: He goes for the throat. I mean, he he goes

1955
01:42:15,000 --> 01:42:17,639
Speaker 1: into the long range and the can hunting and all

1956
01:42:17,680 --> 01:42:19,920
Speaker 1: of that. I mean he does, he throws down. It's

1957
01:42:19,960 --> 01:42:23,120
Speaker 1: called defining modern hunting. So we'll look forward to that.

1958
01:42:23,240 --> 01:42:26,479
Speaker 1: And yeah, when you get in there, that's awesome. Man. Yeah,

1959
01:42:26,600 --> 01:42:28,280
Speaker 1: Like I said, you have guys like Max Low in here.

1960
01:42:28,320 --> 01:42:30,880
Speaker 1: I think that's a huge deal. Chris Burkhard and here

1961
01:42:30,920 --> 01:42:36,360
Speaker 1: explain who Chris is. Chris. Yeah, Chris is a pretty

1962
01:42:36,400 --> 01:42:39,719
Speaker 1: famous or prolific outdoor photographer. Does a lot of work

1963
01:42:39,760 --> 01:42:42,880
Speaker 1: for you know, surf surf brands and and ari I

1964
01:42:43,000 --> 01:42:45,479
Speaker 1: and and uh Patagonia and and I think he has

1965
01:42:45,560 --> 01:42:49,880
Speaker 1: three millions something Instagram followers, uh and uh. And Charles

1966
01:42:49,880 --> 01:42:52,120
Speaker 1: is a good friend of his and and so he's

1967
01:42:52,120 --> 01:42:54,320
Speaker 1: one of those guys. I believe he's a vegetarian and

1968
01:42:54,360 --> 01:42:57,960
Speaker 1: he definitely doesn't hunt, but he believes that, you know,

1969
01:42:58,120 --> 01:43:01,360
Speaker 1: preserving wild places and things are more important than whether

1970
01:43:01,360 --> 01:43:04,000
Speaker 1: you're holding a rod or a rock climbing rope. So

1971
01:43:04,200 --> 01:43:06,800
Speaker 1: he's can he's you know, agreed to be a contributor

1972
01:43:06,800 --> 01:43:09,719
Speaker 1: of the last two issues and um, you know, help

1973
01:43:09,840 --> 01:43:11,760
Speaker 1: us promote in a little bit of way, which which

1974
01:43:11,800 --> 01:43:14,679
Speaker 1: is amazing. Um. And so they had a story about

1975
01:43:14,960 --> 01:43:17,040
Speaker 1: their work in Iceland and it's a it's a really

1976
01:43:17,040 --> 01:43:21,760
Speaker 1: cool story about how Iceland was the number one geothermal

1977
01:43:22,840 --> 01:43:26,120
Speaker 1: or no, they were using hydro dams from these glacial

1978
01:43:26,200 --> 01:43:29,280
Speaker 1: rivers for aluminum production and then that massive and I

1979
01:43:29,360 --> 01:43:32,400
Speaker 1: cannot pronounce the name of the volcano the eruption and

1980
01:43:32,520 --> 01:43:37,080
Speaker 1: like what was that two thousand fourteen or whatever massive

1981
01:43:37,200 --> 01:43:42,040
Speaker 1: volcanic eruption that disrupted like of the world's air traffic,

1982
01:43:43,080 --> 01:43:48,639
Speaker 1: and that at that point they shifted. Um. There, that's

1983
01:43:48,640 --> 01:43:50,600
Speaker 1: when tourism started to become big and people wanted to

1984
01:43:50,600 --> 01:43:54,040
Speaker 1: come see these amazing places and that success. So now

1985
01:43:54,080 --> 01:43:57,559
Speaker 1: that's the number one resource in Iceland, is tourism. So

1986
01:43:57,720 --> 01:44:00,400
Speaker 1: that country realized, you know what, maybe we should destroy

1987
01:44:00,439 --> 01:44:02,920
Speaker 1: our glacial rivers by doing aluminum production that we should

1988
01:44:03,320 --> 01:44:06,080
Speaker 1: support it. And so they're about to put in place

1989
01:44:06,840 --> 01:44:10,679
Speaker 1: an ordinance that would make of the island at National

1990
01:44:10,720 --> 01:44:13,439
Speaker 1: Park and and so that's kind of what Chris is

1991
01:44:13,479 --> 01:44:16,960
Speaker 1: bringing attention to. And um, and then you know, we've

1992
01:44:17,000 --> 01:44:21,800
Speaker 1: got Gunar from Iceland who's a traditional Icelandic Arctic fox hunter. Yeah,

1993
01:44:21,880 --> 01:44:26,200
Speaker 1: let's let's this guy. I love this many many reasons

1994
01:44:26,520 --> 01:44:29,080
Speaker 1: because if you just posted the picture of this feller,

1995
01:44:30,640 --> 01:44:33,320
Speaker 1: he looks straight out of the show Vikings. Yeah, but

1996
01:44:33,400 --> 01:44:37,840
Speaker 1: also I think there's like there's hipsters that might also

1997
01:44:38,000 --> 01:44:40,320
Speaker 1: dress like this. So if you look at this, you're like, oh,

1998
01:44:40,439 --> 01:44:42,840
Speaker 1: look at this guy. What a loser. But then you

1999
01:44:42,880 --> 01:44:44,920
Speaker 1: started to read about it, like this could could this heat?

2000
01:44:45,560 --> 01:44:48,559
Speaker 1: This is a man he ang men. So he's a

2001
01:44:49,520 --> 01:44:53,920
Speaker 1: I can't remember, third or fourth generation Icelandic Arctic fox hunter.

2002
01:44:54,080 --> 01:44:56,920
Speaker 1: So his grandfather taught him how to hunt. And he's

2003
01:44:56,920 --> 01:44:58,920
Speaker 1: got this massive red beard and he wars. The knit

2004
01:44:59,000 --> 01:45:01,439
Speaker 1: sweaters and this heal for boots and this is this

2005
01:45:01,520 --> 01:45:04,760
Speaker 1: is real. This isn't like a fashion show. And he

2006
01:45:05,760 --> 01:45:08,559
Speaker 1: wrote this amazing story is my definitely my favorite one

2007
01:45:08,560 --> 01:45:11,320
Speaker 1: in the issue about the history of when the Vikings

2008
01:45:11,320 --> 01:45:13,680
Speaker 1: first landed in Iceland, they had to compete with the

2009
01:45:13,720 --> 01:45:16,960
Speaker 1: Arctic fox with the same food source, and so over time,

2010
01:45:17,080 --> 01:45:18,120
Speaker 1: you know, and a lot of it has to do

2011
01:45:18,160 --> 01:45:20,960
Speaker 1: with the eider eider birds right at which are endangered

2012
01:45:21,439 --> 01:45:24,040
Speaker 1: and or that they were praying on the livestock, which

2013
01:45:24,080 --> 01:45:25,679
Speaker 1: in Iceland like if you don't have your live stock

2014
01:45:25,720 --> 01:45:28,640
Speaker 1: in the winter, you're done for. And that has evolved

2015
01:45:28,760 --> 01:45:32,640
Speaker 1: over time to a government sponsored fox management program. So

2016
01:45:32,720 --> 01:45:36,200
Speaker 1: he is professionally hired by the Icelandic government. He gets

2017
01:45:36,200 --> 01:45:40,120
Speaker 1: paid per tale to protect these eider birds settlements. So

2018
01:45:40,160 --> 01:45:43,479
Speaker 1: he literally camps out and snipes these foxes to keep

2019
01:45:43,520 --> 01:45:46,680
Speaker 1: the balance of wildlife. And you know, it's something that's

2020
01:45:46,720 --> 01:45:49,200
Speaker 1: controversial because people love Arctic foxes, but if you go

2021
01:45:49,240 --> 01:45:52,120
Speaker 1: to Sweden and Norway, the Arctic fox is endangered because

2022
01:45:52,120 --> 01:45:54,519
Speaker 1: the red fox praise on those. So he goes over

2023
01:45:54,520 --> 01:45:57,040
Speaker 1: there and shoots red foxes. So he's got this like

2024
01:45:57,520 --> 01:46:01,960
Speaker 1: amazing relationship and and the the detail and the the

2025
01:46:02,080 --> 01:46:04,600
Speaker 1: depth of the relationship that he has with the landscape

2026
01:46:04,640 --> 01:46:07,120
Speaker 1: and the animals is unbelievable. And it's like you talk

2027
01:46:07,160 --> 01:46:09,559
Speaker 1: about a guy coming from the land and living a

2028
01:46:09,600 --> 01:46:12,760
Speaker 1: life of the land. It's not any better than this,

2029
01:46:12,920 --> 01:46:15,479
Speaker 1: and and and he's a he's intelligent, he's articulate, he's

2030
01:46:15,479 --> 01:46:18,559
Speaker 1: a talented photographer. His wife's a hunter. They're already teaching

2031
01:46:18,600 --> 01:46:21,680
Speaker 1: their daughter about the ways of their life. And this

2032
01:46:21,720 --> 01:46:24,040
Speaker 1: is one of those things where it's it's tied up

2033
01:46:24,040 --> 01:46:28,120
Speaker 1: in the cultural tradition exactly that you know, it's sometimes clear.

2034
01:46:28,640 --> 01:46:31,439
Speaker 1: And I enjoy those folks the most, you know, and

2035
01:46:31,479 --> 01:46:33,280
Speaker 1: I've run into them, had him some on this show

2036
01:46:33,680 --> 01:46:38,920
Speaker 1: that hunting is they just emote this cultural sensitivity to

2037
01:46:39,920 --> 01:46:42,000
Speaker 1: who they are, what they do hunting is that du

2038
01:46:42,040 --> 01:46:46,080
Speaker 1: Sean talks about that about his native country. Um, other

2039
01:46:46,120 --> 01:46:49,479
Speaker 1: folks like Wyman Men'ser and and Charles Rowdy and people

2040
01:46:49,560 --> 01:46:51,400
Speaker 1: have been on this show that that have They just

2041
01:46:52,479 --> 01:46:54,840
Speaker 1: it just comes out of them. They breathe it. It

2042
01:46:55,000 --> 01:46:57,720
Speaker 1: is them. And so because it is them, it's part

2043
01:46:57,760 --> 01:47:00,080
Speaker 1: of the culture that they came up in and that

2044
01:47:00,320 --> 01:47:03,200
Speaker 1: can be powerful. And I'm sure this can't wait to

2045
01:47:03,200 --> 01:47:05,360
Speaker 1: read it. I'm sure it's powerful as well. Yeah, he's

2046
01:47:05,360 --> 01:47:07,640
Speaker 1: an interesting guy. Should you should you should have him

2047
01:47:07,680 --> 01:47:11,040
Speaker 1: on sometime? Yeah, hook me up. Yeah, I'd love to

2048
01:47:11,080 --> 01:47:15,080
Speaker 1: talk about dude. Yeah, Well, thank you, Tyler, Um and

2049
01:47:15,120 --> 01:47:17,640
Speaker 1: go go look at Modern hunts and volume three. There

2050
01:47:17,680 --> 01:47:20,280
Speaker 1: are two other volumes that are I'm sure still available

2051
01:47:20,600 --> 01:47:23,719
Speaker 1: and um, Like I said, I appreciate, appreciate your honesty

2052
01:47:23,760 --> 01:47:25,479
Speaker 1: and your openness about what you do and what you

2053
01:47:25,520 --> 01:47:29,920
Speaker 1: feel about your mission with this book, I think it's admirable. Well,

2054
01:47:29,960 --> 01:47:31,760
Speaker 1: thanks Ben, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on here.

2055
01:47:31,720 --> 01:47:38,240
Speaker 1: All brother cheers. I guess I grew up on an

2056
01:47:38,280 --> 01:47:44,960
Speaker 1: all day. That's it. That's all episode number sixty eight

2057
01:47:45,320 --> 01:47:49,280
Speaker 1: in the books. It was a good one. It's always

2058
01:47:49,520 --> 01:47:52,160
Speaker 1: of this conversation We've had a lot on this podcast. Uh,

2059
01:47:52,400 --> 01:47:54,840
Speaker 1: it's really kind of the reason I started this podcast.

2060
01:47:55,280 --> 01:47:58,599
Speaker 1: How what's you know? What's our wife for hunting? How

2061
01:47:58,600 --> 01:48:01,000
Speaker 1: do we communicate that? Why? How do we talk about

2062
01:48:01,000 --> 01:48:04,479
Speaker 1: our motivations? How do we talk about the narrative to

2063
01:48:04,600 --> 01:48:08,200
Speaker 1: the to the broader public. It's it's something that will

2064
01:48:08,200 --> 01:48:10,200
Speaker 1: continue to talk about here. I try not to overdo it.

2065
01:48:10,240 --> 01:48:12,479
Speaker 1: In recent podcasts. We we have talked about a lot

2066
01:48:12,479 --> 01:48:14,680
Speaker 1: of varied subjects, which is always fun to return to

2067
01:48:14,720 --> 01:48:16,720
Speaker 1: this because it really is the thing that I think

2068
01:48:16,720 --> 01:48:19,280
Speaker 1: we could talk about forever. So thank you to Tyler Sharp.

2069
01:48:20,120 --> 01:48:24,000
Speaker 1: Go pick up Modern Huntsman. Volume three, Monor Huntsman dot

2070
01:48:24,000 --> 01:48:28,759
Speaker 1: Com and thank you to Anthon Kat my new boss.

2071
01:48:28,960 --> 01:48:31,240
Speaker 1: Hopefully he sticks around his family moves in Montana. You're

2072
01:48:31,240 --> 01:48:34,240
Speaker 1: gonna hear a lot from him in the coming weeks.

2073
01:48:34,960 --> 01:48:38,760
Speaker 1: What else do we got? What else? Oh? Um? Go

2074
01:48:38,880 --> 01:48:41,439
Speaker 1: to the Mediator store. You should do that all the time,

2075
01:48:41,520 --> 01:48:44,559
Speaker 1: every day that you can. There's a lot of stuff there.

2076
01:48:45,000 --> 01:48:48,479
Speaker 1: There is our I really want uh to highlight our

2077
01:48:48,560 --> 01:48:51,200
Speaker 1: new shirt relative and news has been out for about

2078
01:48:51,200 --> 01:48:55,479
Speaker 1: a month or so. Our Auto Leopold shirt. Uh, it's

2079
01:48:55,520 --> 01:49:00,320
Speaker 1: it says Aldo freaking Leopold on it, and it says

2080
01:49:00,360 --> 01:49:01,880
Speaker 1: that because he's a badass and he's one of the

2081
01:49:01,880 --> 01:49:05,200
Speaker 1: fathers of conservation. He's written some of the seminal works

2082
01:49:05,240 --> 01:49:08,400
Speaker 1: in our world. And you're gonna be walking around with

2083
01:49:08,479 --> 01:49:12,360
Speaker 1: the illustrated picture of Aldo on your shirt. People are

2084
01:49:12,360 --> 01:49:14,640
Speaker 1: gonna ask you who's that and you're gonna get to

2085
01:49:14,640 --> 01:49:17,760
Speaker 1: tell him. So you're gonna be a messenger for that

2086
01:49:17,800 --> 01:49:20,360
Speaker 1: man in his great works that have inspired all of us.

2087
01:49:20,360 --> 01:49:22,679
Speaker 1: So go to the Mediator dot com, click on the

2088
01:49:22,720 --> 01:49:26,519
Speaker 1: shop and then go find that t And there's some

2089
01:49:26,560 --> 01:49:30,160
Speaker 1: other stuff there. There's Hunting Collective, Vietti Tumbler. There is

2090
01:49:30,680 --> 01:49:33,840
Speaker 1: the pro Nuance Anti Bullshit t shirts. There are some

2091
01:49:33,920 --> 01:49:37,360
Speaker 1: other logoed hoodies and hats and things like that there

2092
01:49:37,360 --> 01:49:39,240
Speaker 1: that I think are pretty cool. I hope you go

2093
01:49:39,800 --> 01:49:43,920
Speaker 1: check out and pick up and what else. There's other

2094
01:49:43,920 --> 01:49:45,559
Speaker 1: stuff with this store. You're always gonna want to go

2095
01:49:45,560 --> 01:49:48,320
Speaker 1: there and check those things out. But I also want

2096
01:49:48,360 --> 01:49:51,120
Speaker 1: to address before we get out of here, um, the

2097
01:49:51,160 --> 01:49:53,880
Speaker 1: great feedback we got on last week's episode number sixty

2098
01:49:53,880 --> 01:49:56,840
Speaker 1: seven on the Lama Laryns. The Lama Laryerons are a

2099
01:49:56,880 --> 01:50:01,360
Speaker 1: subsistence hunting tribe on a small line in Indonesia. I've

2100
01:50:01,520 --> 01:50:03,720
Speaker 1: I've got dozens of emails here from people that really

2101
01:50:03,720 --> 01:50:06,280
Speaker 1: liked that episode and really like about Clark. A lot

2102
01:50:06,320 --> 01:50:09,120
Speaker 1: of you had questions about his experience. I've sent some

2103
01:50:09,160 --> 01:50:11,000
Speaker 1: of those over to Doug and hopefully he can get

2104
01:50:11,040 --> 01:50:14,440
Speaker 1: back to us and we'll cover that on future podcasts

2105
01:50:14,640 --> 01:50:17,120
Speaker 1: or I'll just email you guys back and with his answers.

2106
01:50:17,160 --> 01:50:20,200
Speaker 1: So thanks for listening to that episode. We're gonna leave

2107
01:50:20,240 --> 01:50:24,000
Speaker 1: you on this episode numb leave you with some listener

2108
01:50:24,080 --> 01:50:28,880
Speaker 1: feedback and then old number seven, So enjoy see you

2109
01:50:28,880 --> 01:50:34,599
Speaker 1: next time. Bye. Hey, this is Andrew just calling to

2110
01:50:34,760 --> 01:50:38,080
Speaker 1: give some of my feedback. Um, first off, I loved

2111
01:50:38,160 --> 01:50:43,040
Speaker 1: the interview with Charles Rodney. Um, such a cool guy,

2112
01:50:43,120 --> 01:50:45,640
Speaker 1: such a cool story. I love small game hunting. I

2113
01:50:45,720 --> 01:50:49,439
Speaker 1: loved seeing different types of people and um, how they

2114
01:50:49,520 --> 01:50:51,400
Speaker 1: hunt and what they do and what their heritage is.

2115
01:50:51,439 --> 01:50:54,839
Speaker 1: I mean, UM, it's just so cool to see something

2116
01:50:55,760 --> 01:50:58,640
Speaker 1: varying from the status quo and to see like an

2117
01:50:58,640 --> 01:51:03,519
Speaker 1: alternative version of of American history heritage hunting. So that

2118
01:51:03,600 --> 01:51:05,360
Speaker 1: was a real treat and I felt like I was

2119
01:51:05,400 --> 01:51:07,479
Speaker 1: there with you guys, and what a great interview, So

2120
01:51:07,520 --> 01:51:10,920
Speaker 1: thank you for doing that. Um. In in junction with

2121
01:51:11,000 --> 01:51:15,400
Speaker 1: that interview, you guys were talking about people of color

2122
01:51:15,479 --> 01:51:17,800
Speaker 1: in the hunting world and how there aren't a lot

2123
01:51:17,840 --> 01:51:21,600
Speaker 1: of them and how uh we want more and and

2124
01:51:21,640 --> 01:51:23,680
Speaker 1: you also sort of tiptoed around it while you're doing

2125
01:51:23,720 --> 01:51:27,960
Speaker 1: it because people had such adverse reactions to it, and UM,

2126
01:51:28,000 --> 01:51:30,479
Speaker 1: I think maybe we could investigate a little bit why

2127
01:51:30,600 --> 01:51:33,240
Speaker 1: why do people have such knee jerk reaction to the

2128
01:51:33,280 --> 01:51:36,839
Speaker 1: mere mention of people of color in the hunting and

2129
01:51:37,040 --> 01:51:40,200
Speaker 1: how there you know, I mean, anyone with two eyes

2130
01:51:40,240 --> 01:51:42,840
Speaker 1: can see what the hunting world is. Come on, it's

2131
01:51:42,880 --> 01:51:46,519
Speaker 1: white men, you know, and and why is that it hasn't?

2132
01:51:46,600 --> 01:51:51,920
Speaker 1: You know, white men didn't invent hunting? Um, so why

2133
01:51:51,960 --> 01:51:54,400
Speaker 1: don't people of color have access? Or why aren't they

2134
01:51:54,439 --> 01:51:58,080
Speaker 1: welcomed into spaces? Um? You know, why don't they have

2135
01:51:58,240 --> 01:52:01,400
Speaker 1: as rich of a heritage of hunting as you know,

2136
01:52:01,479 --> 01:52:06,200
Speaker 1: the average white man? Might? You know? Um? I think

2137
01:52:06,200 --> 01:52:08,720
Speaker 1: it's it's something to investigate, and I think just the

2138
01:52:08,760 --> 01:52:11,960
Speaker 1: emotions behind it are something to investigate. It would encourage

2139
01:52:11,960 --> 01:52:19,280
Speaker 1: people to ask themselves why doesn't make them mad? You know? Uh? Why? Why? Why? Why?

2140
01:52:19,320 --> 01:52:24,439
Speaker 1: I'm really truly baffled and shocked and honestly appalled. They say,

2141
01:52:24,479 --> 01:52:26,800
Speaker 1: don't read the comment section, and I honestly wish I

2142
01:52:26,840 --> 01:52:29,559
Speaker 1: wouldn't have had read it. But what's done is done,

2143
01:52:29,600 --> 01:52:34,919
Speaker 1: so I'd love to hear more about it. Thanks by

2144
01:52:36,080 --> 01:52:39,479
Speaker 1: hey man. This is Nate Schnick from Western Minnesota calling

2145
01:52:39,520 --> 01:52:41,720
Speaker 1: it yea. I just want to tell you how much

2146
01:52:41,760 --> 01:52:46,679
Speaker 1: I appreciate your podcasts, really appreciating all the turkey content

2147
01:52:46,760 --> 01:52:49,759
Speaker 1: that you put out this spring. I am an adult

2148
01:52:49,920 --> 01:52:53,880
Speaker 1: onset turkey hunter. I've been hunting a lot of other stuff,

2149
01:52:53,960 --> 01:52:57,000
Speaker 1: mostly white tailed years, since I was a kid. This

2150
01:52:57,080 --> 01:53:00,479
Speaker 1: is with my first spring, turkey hunting went out with

2151
01:53:00,600 --> 01:53:04,040
Speaker 1: the d n R program and n wtf kind of

2152
01:53:04,120 --> 01:53:09,160
Speaker 1: joint program. Uh got a bird within thirty minutes of

2153
01:53:09,200 --> 01:53:11,880
Speaker 1: getting out my first morning and was able to get

2154
01:53:11,880 --> 01:53:15,680
Speaker 1: a really nice time and I am hooked. Yeah, keep

2155
01:53:15,720 --> 01:53:18,160
Speaker 1: up the good work, keep it rolling. I wouldn't be

2156
01:53:18,200 --> 01:53:21,320
Speaker 1: a post and more turky talk during the summer. Thanks man,

2157
01:53:21,960 --> 01:53:26,559
Speaker 1: Thank you. Jack Daniels. Oh, I'm seven Tennessee. Who whiskey

2158
01:53:26,640 --> 01:53:29,799
Speaker 1: got me dragging in heaven and uh and just stopped.

2159
01:53:29,840 --> 01:53:32,720
Speaker 1: It looks good to me. They're gonna have to de

2160
01:53:32,880 --> 01:53:40,439
Speaker 1: bump into the far red. Oh, the far red. D

2161
01:53:41,320 --> 01:53:47,880
Speaker 1: farry d d he