1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: Folks, it your pals at ridiculous history with a classic episode. 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:08,799 Speaker 1: For all our travelers out there, all our nomadic friends. 3 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 1: You know, one of the worst things that happens when 4 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,959 Speaker 1: you're on the road is when you have to use 5 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: the wash closet and you can't find one. The WC, 6 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: the WC, the water closet, the restroom. I'll tell you 7 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: add as they say in nautical parlance. Yes, familiar to 8 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,239 Speaker 1: all the sailors. That'll make sense later in October. By 9 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: the way, folks, but I gotta tell you, guys, this 10 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: recently happened to me, not too long ago. I was 11 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: in a very crowded city for a world expo, like 12 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: the modern version of a World's Fair, and I swear 13 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: I walked more than three miles trying to find a toilet. 14 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 2: I'm glad you didn't poop your pants. 15 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: Ben, me too, Me too, and thank you. Noel. Are 16 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: we telling you this TMI information? 17 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:06,759 Speaker 3: Well, well, we're talking about another example of walking very 18 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,559 Speaker 3: long distances and not pooping one's pants, or perhaps maybe 19 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 3: a little pants were pooped in the case of Lewis 20 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 3: and Clark, the famous explorers expeditioners who took to the 21 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 3: western side of the continent, trying to prepare in advance 22 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 3: for every possible contingency, including constipation. 23 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, they were worried about their continents on the continent. 24 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: They also were exploring North America at a time when 25 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: laxative technology just wasn't as sophisticated as it is today. 26 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 3: You know, they were dealing with they were playing with 27 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 3: live fire in laxative form. 28 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: And weirdly enough, as we discovered this classic episode, the 29 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: use of their dangerous laxatives is part of the reason 30 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: why we know so much about their journey today. 31 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 3: Ah Man, let's get right to it. 32 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Is your crew 33 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: of otherwise intrepid adventurers, soldiers and scouts falling prey to 34 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: the depredations of life on the edge of the map 35 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 1: or the challenges of the untamed wilds, leaving your men 36 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 1: with syphilis, constipation, scurvy, brain shut us, sticky ye, welshman's ear, 37 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: and they other tragic, painful conditions so common to modern explorers. 38 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: If so, fret not, good friends and neighbors, Doctor Benjamin 39 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:55,239 Speaker 1: Rush has discovered a brilliant, innovative solution to all your ills. 40 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,239 Speaker 1: Doctor Russia's world famous Billious Pills use a proprietary combination 41 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 1: of pure and to gently purge the body of excess 42 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: bile and contaminants that caused these dreadful, incommodious conditions. Hi, 43 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: I'm bett. 44 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 2: Who was that though? 45 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 1: Oh? That was an advertisement for doctor Benjamin Rush's Billius Pills, not. 46 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 2: Doctor Benjamin Bowlan's Billious Pills. 47 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,519 Speaker 1: No, No, he beat me. He beat me to this one. Noel, 48 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 1: to the gut punch, Yes, to the gut, to the thunderclap. Oh, 49 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 1: my goodness, gracious. So I think he left out a 50 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: key component in that ad though, Ben, Yeah, there was 51 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: a little bit of a pr spin there. Noel, what 52 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: was what was that key ingredient that got left out? 53 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 2: I think it was mercury? 54 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: Ben, I believe you are correct, my friend. We are 55 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: here a ridiculous history along with our super producer, Casey Pegram, 56 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: and I don't think we told Casey what this episode 57 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: is going to be about. No. 58 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 3: I think I think from our pre pro conversations he 59 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 3: sort of gleaned that it was something to. 60 00:03:53,880 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: Do with mercury and poop and possibly exploration, Yes, possibly exploration, 61 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: Probably exploration, Definitely exploration. Can you take us back, Noel 62 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: where we headed? Who are our protagonist today? 63 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 2: Okay, Ben? 64 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 3: For today's episode, we are in fact going to time 65 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 3: travel so that we can physically travel along with our 66 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 3: companions for the day Meriwether Lewis and William Clark otherwise 67 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 3: known as Lewis and Clark. 68 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: Yes. 69 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 3: Yes, And there's an amazing Superman spinoff television program called 70 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 3: Lewis and Clark that they were really capitalizing on people 71 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 3: having fond memories of this intrepid traveling duo. But this 72 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 3: is an eighteen oh four and that was more like 73 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety four, I want to say, so this 74 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 3: is the important pair. So we've got Lewis and Clark 75 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,280 Speaker 3: who go out on a journey. It's sort of like 76 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 3: a Lord of the Rings esque journey to Mordore, only 77 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 3: it's to survey this land that President Jefferson, you know, 78 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 3: basically bought from Louisiana and in another creative title for 79 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 3: an event, the Louisiana Purchase, he purchased some land from. 80 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 2: Louisiana and they called it that. 81 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 3: And so this journey started from Saint Louis and very 82 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 3: very slowly and deliberately made its way to the west. 83 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 2: Coast right the Rcific. 84 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: They wanted to. They were tasked to find a passage 85 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 1: from the Missouri River to the Pacific, and they left, 86 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 1: as you said, May fourteenth, eighteen oh four. It took 87 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: them twenty eight months to complete the journey. They lucked out, though, 88 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 1: because almost everyone survived, which was amazing when you consider 89 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: that they were going through the untamed Why. 90 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 2: I think they only lost one person? 91 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 1: Just why? Yeah? 92 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 2: How'd he go? 93 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: On August twentieth, Sergeant Charles Floyd died of what they 94 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: called at the time billius corlick. 95 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 3: Interesting, wasn't that word in the name of that pill 96 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 3: that that had disembodied? 97 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 2: Yes, announcer gave. 98 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 1: Us the top of the show Billius pills. Today we 99 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: call billius corlicko r lic k. By the way, we 100 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: call that a ruptured appendix. 101 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 3: Really, so billius referring to bile. Correct, absolutely, And that's 102 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 3: what your appendix is kind of chock full of. And 103 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 3: it is a poisonous substance if leached out into the body, right. 104 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: Right, exactly. Billius is a word that can trace its 105 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 1: origin back to the old belief, in the old medical belief, Yes, exactly. 106 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: The four bodily humors would be black bile, yellow bile, phlegm, 107 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 1: and blood, So you might be phlegmatic, you might be bilious. 108 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: And when Lewis and Clark set off with their thirty 109 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: odd people, they wanted to really be boy scouts about it. 110 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: They needed to prepare as much as possible for any contingency, 111 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: and one of the things that they were very concerned 112 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: with was the possibility of growing sick like indigestion, diarrhea, constipation, 113 00:06:58,520 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: constipation mainly. 114 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the big one, because how how many months 115 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 3: was this journey again? Then twenty eight twenty eight months, 116 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 3: so you know, it would be almost impossible to bring 117 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 3: enough food that that would keep for that long, let 118 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 3: alone that you could actually carry through the completely untamed 119 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 3: wilderness that they were traveling through. So they had to 120 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 3: be prepared to have to catch their own food, which 121 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 3: would end up being like super kind of gamey stuff. 122 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 3: I believe they ended up eating a lot of dogs 123 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 3: on this trip. 124 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a thing. 125 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 3: And this led them to having some pretty severe tummy troubles, 126 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 3: most specifically constipation. 127 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 2: So they packed these pills in large quantities. 128 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: Yes, Yeah. The weird thing about the billious pills is 129 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: they were actually in effect anti bilious. Back then, a 130 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: patient was said to be bilious when supposed poor flow 131 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: of bile in their body gave them any number of 132 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: symptoms headache, lassitude, constipation. And doctor Rush had actually spoken 133 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: to Lewis, to Meriwether Lewis before they left, and he said, 134 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: if you see a sign of an approaching disease, if 135 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: you see one of these symptoms pop up, headaches, constipation, 136 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 1: just hand them one or two of these pills. But 137 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: they add that nickname right, thunderbolts. 138 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 2: Thunderbolt. 139 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 3: See it sounds like some kind of like truck stop speed, 140 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 3: doesn't it? Like many mini thins or yellowjackets. Yellow jackets, 141 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:34,439 Speaker 3: that's the one. But here here's the kicker though. It 142 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 3: contained something called calamel ten grams per serving, which the 143 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 3: active ingredient in calamel is in fact mercury mercurius chloride. 144 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this calamel stuff had been used in medical 145 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: practice since the sixteen hundreds because it was actually a 146 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: milder form of mercury compound. The liquid medical mercury had 147 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,319 Speaker 1: been applied externally in different ways since ancient times to 148 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 1: treat a variety of skin diseases and then, because it'd 149 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: been used so often externally, it evolved into an internal medicine, wasn't. 150 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 3: The problem with mercury is that, sure, it does knock 151 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 3: out some conditions of the skin, for example, but it 152 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 3: also like poisons the person that's taking it. 153 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: Right, Right, Like the old haberdashers who would go crazy 154 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: from exposure to mercury. 155 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, like that guy that killed John Wilkes Booth 156 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 3: we did an episode on back in the day. 157 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, yeah, you know the guy castrated himself, 158 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:47,319 Speaker 1: Thomas Corbett. Corbett, that's right, that's right. So we know 159 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: that mercury could actually treat some medical conditions. People used 160 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 1: it often to combat syphilis, for instance, But we also 161 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: know that this stuff had a range of terrible, terrible 162 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:08,559 Speaker 1: side effects. If you took small doses of this mercurous 163 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: chloride over time, it would give you mercury poisoning. We 164 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 1: just didn't call it that at the time. You would 165 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 1: have a lot of saliva, your gums would get sore, 166 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: your teeth would loosen, your breath would smell like metal, 167 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: which is super gross, and you would have discolored stool. 168 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: But in large doses, this stuff acted very quickly as 169 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 1: a laxative. 170 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it absolutely did. 171 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 3: And that is, of of course, the purposes that was 172 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 3: being employed for here with the Lewis and Clark team. 173 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 3: They took so much of it that they would spend 174 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 3: like an entire day. They would lose to multiple party 175 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 3: members just you know, purging spray and pray, that is 176 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 3: what I like to call it. 177 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good one. 178 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 2: But thankfully there was. 179 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 3: A popular kind of wisdom I guess surrounding camping that 180 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 3: you should dig your latrine a certain distance away from 181 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 3: your campsite. Oh yeah, as not to contaminate your food 182 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 3: or you know, just to keep things not gross. 183 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: It's a quality of life. 184 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 3: It's especially if you got a dude like hovering over 185 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,199 Speaker 3: this like hole in the ground just like expelling his 186 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 3: bowels just explosively. 187 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 2: Nobody wants to be around that. How do you remember 188 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 2: how far it was? What was the recommended distance? 189 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:24,959 Speaker 3: I would think surely given the circumstances, they would have 190 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:26,839 Speaker 3: like uped that whatever it may have been. 191 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, it may have changed depending on their terrain, but 192 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: the rule of thumb nowadays is about one hundred yards 193 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: away as a minimum in a secluded area. They were 194 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,439 Speaker 1: probably not that far away, because one hundred yards that's 195 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: a football field, you know what I mean? 196 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 3: Well, and exactly like if you were in some kind 197 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 3: of small clearing, like in a wooded area, you might 198 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 3: not have that much space to work with. 199 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was probably just far. It was at least 200 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,599 Speaker 1: far enough away that you wouldn't be haunted by the 201 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: smell or the sounds, the horrible all the sounds, right, 202 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: the groans of anguish. 203 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 3: Human misery and like cartoonish splattering sounds. 204 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 2: Can you even imagine? 205 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 3: Ben? I can? 206 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: And it bothers me? 207 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 2: It bothers me too? Does it bother you listeners? 208 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 1: Let's know, does it bother you? Casey? 209 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd say that bothers me? It's the case. It 210 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 2: is decided. It's an unpleasant thing to be around. Right. 211 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: We took it to the highest authority in the land 212 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: as far as this podcast is concerned. The weird thing 213 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: about these pills is that it was a large enough 214 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: dose of mercury to actually kill a human being, but 215 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 1: it went through their bodies so fast. 216 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 2: And one end out of the other because it was 217 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 2: fast acting too. That was another part. That's why they 218 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:49,559 Speaker 2: were called lightning pills. I imagine, right, yeah. 219 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:52,559 Speaker 1: Exactly, And they had to be named after the sound, 220 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: you know, which just still bothers me a little bit null. 221 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 1: But here's here's something you're saying. 222 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 2: It sounded like lightning when they evacuated Bowels. 223 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,599 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, sounded like the clap of thunder, you know, 224 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: like is a storm coming in? Or is Lewis sick again? 225 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:09,839 Speaker 3: You know. 226 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: But here's something that hopefully made the pain of the 227 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: journey worth it for these for these intrepid explorers. For 228 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: a long time, archaeologists were attempting to trace the exact 229 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: path that Lewis and Clark took. And these guys stated 230 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: over six hundred different sites. So you might know the 231 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: general trend and you can see some stuff that they 232 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: have documented themselves, But if you want to find the 233 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:43,559 Speaker 1: specific actual facts camp sites, you're looking at a needle 234 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: in the haystack situation, or so one would assume. 235 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 3: Or you could call it a pile of human excrement 236 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 3: in a hole in the ground situation. 237 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 1: That's true, that's probably more accurate, more accurate. 238 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 3: Which honestly seems to me would be pretty difficult to 239 00:13:58,080 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 3: find as well. 240 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 2: But find it. These intrepid archaeologists did, did they not? 241 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 3: Ben? 242 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: They did all they did, and they did it with 243 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: the incidental help of doctor Benjamin Rush's Billius pills. Because 244 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: remember how just a moment ago we said that these 245 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: things are like sixty percent mercury, sixty percent mercurius chloride 246 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: or callamel. There was so much mercury running through these 247 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: poor guy's bodies that the mercury stayed in the ground 248 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: where their latrines were like an unusual cartoonish I'll say it, 249 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: disgusting amount of mercury. 250 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 3: And that is how, given the opportunity, archaeologists could differentiate 251 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 3: between the Lewis and Clark poop and the poop of 252 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 3: others who may have passed through a similar location. 253 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 2: But Ben, they had to have had a vague idea. 254 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 3: They couldn't just been, like, you know, going willy nilly 255 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 3: to every random campsite like this seems like an insane process. 256 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 2: How did this go down? 257 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: It's a good question, my friend. 258 00:14:58,280 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 3: Uh. 259 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: There's a writer for this Cargo Tribune named Maurice Postley 260 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: who walks us through a little bit of this. In 261 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: his journals. Meriwether Lewis refers to a camp site near 262 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: a place called Lolo Creek, which is just a few 263 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: miles south of Missoula, and he calls this place travelers Rest, 264 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: and they all thought. Everybody thought for a long time 265 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: that this camp was at the confluence of the Bitter 266 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: Root River and Lolo Creek about a mile and a 267 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: half away. But this all changed when a vapor analysis 268 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: verified this unusual amount of mercury there. 269 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 2: Ah, I was that much that a vapor analysis would 270 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 2: do it. 271 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 3: It was like in the air. 272 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 2: It was crazy. 273 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: They were able to they were able to analyze the 274 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: soil pretty easily. And once they once they find that 275 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: one site and like, oh, this proves it. Let's see 276 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: if we can test other specific sites for traces of. 277 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 3: Murcery and maybe and maybe get to the source by 278 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 3: seeing how the concentrations change. Right, Yeah, exactly, you could 279 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 3: in theory, I guess, find that hole in the ground 280 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 3: by tracking like the concentration of mercury. 281 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: Yes. And there's an interesting thing here that you and 282 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: I have talked about off air. We've been mentioning mercury 283 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: as a treatment for constipation, but it was also used 284 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: to treat an entirely different medical condition. 285 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 2: That's the thing. 286 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 3: They were getting this mercury from two different sources, the 287 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 3: Billius pills, which was kind of considered a cure all 288 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 3: but then they also had a cache of another type 289 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 3: of medication that was specifically designed to treat syphilis. Because 290 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 3: they were they basically kind of prepared for the fact 291 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 3: they were going to have a lot of what other 292 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 3: kind of sex was there at the time, unprotected sex 293 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 3: with some native women. 294 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: There's an article in The Atlantic that came out in 295 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen that it seems to dispel this belief. For 296 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:07,640 Speaker 1: a while, people believe that syphilis actually came somehow from 297 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: the New World, but all the evidence indicates we still 298 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: don't know exactly where syphilis came from. And I think 299 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: you and I had always assumed that syphilis came with 300 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: the Europeans into the New World, which I know, we're 301 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: not supposed to use the term New World anymore, but 302 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 1: that's what they called it at the time. No, I know, 303 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 1: we're talking about Yeah, so the disease already had a 304 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 1: long history in Europe, but maybe the syphilis epidemic seemed 305 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:41,439 Speaker 1: like a new disease at the time because it had 306 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 1: previously been mistaken for something else, you know, or maybe 307 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: it was a particularly virulent strain of syphilis. 308 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 2: Whatever the case may be. 309 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 3: These travelers knew damn well that they were going to 310 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 3: be exposed to this condition, but they weren't not going 311 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 3: to let that stop them from, you know, having a 312 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 3: nice flaning with an attractive lady. And they took this 313 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 3: stuff to either. I guess it wasn't really it could 314 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 3: be a safeguard again, so I guess they just accepted 315 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 3: they were going. 316 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 1: To get it. 317 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 2: Apparently they were just okay with that. 318 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 3: They just resigned themselves with their their syphilitic fate, which 319 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:16,679 Speaker 3: is no joke, right. Syphilis is the one that can 320 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 3: kind of like make you go insane over. 321 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 1: Time, right in the late stages. 322 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, so they had syphilis and mercury poisoning. 323 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 3: I would imagine by the end of this journey, these 324 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 3: dudes were not well right and mentally right. 325 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 1: And let's see, it was even just in the first 326 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,360 Speaker 1: year of the expedition. On October fifteenth, eighteen oh four, 327 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 1: Clark writes down that the party had arrived at a 328 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: place called the camp of the Arikara, and that quote, 329 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: their women were very fond of caressing our men and company, 330 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,399 Speaker 1: and by March of eighteen oh five. He noted that 331 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: the men were quote generally healthy except venereal complaints, which 332 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,680 Speaker 1: is very common amongst the natives here. The men from them, 333 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 1: so they were blaming the native population. But you know, 334 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: it was just out. It was apparently just crazy talk 335 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: for them to you know, not pursue these flings. 336 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 2: I mean, they had to occupy their time somehow, I guess, right. 337 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 1: So they were just on this cycle of unprotected sex, 338 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: syphilis and mercury, wild times, my friends, and eating dogs 339 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 1: and eating dogs and just laying some epic flatellations. 340 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 2: What I don't know about this. 341 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: What the farts, the thunderclaps. 342 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 2: Oh that's different. 343 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: It was manifest destiny. 344 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 2: O Ben' that's horrible. I love you so much. 345 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 3: There is another thing too, about the times that they 346 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 3: spent on the on the old rugged trail. Apparently every 347 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 3: man got a ration of whiskey. They had barrels of whiskey, 348 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 3: and that was a really important part of their staying 349 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 3: sane in these intense circumstances. And one man I believe 350 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 3: was caught taking more than his fair share of skiing 351 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 3: and he we got fifty stripes on the back with 352 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 3: a cat O nine tails or some such you know, 353 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 3: bull whip. 354 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,679 Speaker 2: Oh wow, they took that stuff really seriously. 355 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know that stuff left scars, oh big time. 356 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. 357 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,360 Speaker 2: But I mean that was like the height of punishment. 358 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:17,120 Speaker 3: And if they did that for just you know, taking 359 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 3: a little extra shot of whiskey, I can't imagine they 360 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 3: would have done for more severe crimes. 361 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 1: Right. And this is fascinating, I think, to both of 362 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: us because growing up here in the States, when you 363 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: hear about the Lewis and Clark expedition, you just hear 364 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 1: the bare bones, and it's sometimes it's a little romanticized. 365 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: You know. It's like these this noble group of people 366 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: who are the harbingers of Western civilization at this point, 367 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: trying to explore a great unknown, at least unknown to 368 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: Europeans land. And as so often happens in so many 369 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 1: stories like this, we skip over a lot of the 370 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: nitty gritty details. The epidemic of syphilis, the epidemic of diarrhea, 371 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: the mercury in the ground everywhere, the dog eating the 372 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: dog eating. No, No, that's very sexy at all. No, 373 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,159 Speaker 1: that's not what you want to think about and think 374 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 1: about this. 375 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 3: We're left with this image of conquering, you know, the 376 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 3: great outdoors, and you've got these trails named after Lewis 377 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 3: and Clark. And now we know that they went to 378 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:26,439 Speaker 3: I think more than six hundred campsites throughout this journey, 379 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 3: and like travelers rest, because of these intrepid archaeologists and 380 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 3: their ability to analyze some of these sites for mercury content, 381 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,919 Speaker 3: we know a little bit more about where these folks 382 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 3: passed through. 383 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: Yes, and we have also learned that what you know, 384 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: neither of us are doctors. Casey is not a doctor either. 385 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 1: We've also learned the perils of mercury. Don't take it, 386 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: don't break the thermometer and play with it. Did you 387 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: ever do that as a kid. No, But I've seen 388 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: videos of it. Looks pretty cool. It's like the T 389 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: one thousand exactly. Yeah, but it's still not worth it. 390 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: It can do horrible things to It. Just happened in 391 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: today's episode to preserve for posterity the details of the 392 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: Lewis and Clark expedition. And one thing that's surprising is 393 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 1: although we hold the Lewis and Clark expedition in such 394 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 1: high regard today, it only became popular relatively recently. Like 395 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: fifty years ago or so. 396 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 3: Well, I think when these men return, they expected like 397 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 3: a hero's welcome right, and it just never really came. 398 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 3: And Meriwether Lewis, in fact, his death has been a 399 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 3: source of much speculation, but one very plausible one is 400 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 3: that he kind of spiraled into despair and self doubt 401 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 3: and that he ultimately took his own life in a 402 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:57,640 Speaker 3: quite outlandish fashion. 403 00:22:58,680 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: Walk us through it. 404 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:00,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, well so. 405 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 3: Thomas Jefferson himself had reported that Lewis's family had a 406 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 3: history of depression bipolar disorder specifically, and that he himself 407 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 3: Lewis had been suffering from this condition himself since he 408 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 3: was a child. And here's a quote from a great 409 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 3: article on history dot nd dot gov, where Jefferson says, 410 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 3: this Governor Lewis had from an early life been subject 411 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 3: to hypochondriac affections. It was a constitutional disposition in all 412 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 3: the nearer branches of the family of his name. It 413 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 3: was more immediately inherited by him from his father. While 414 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 3: he lived with me in Washington, I observed at times 415 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 3: sensible depressions of mind, but knowing their constitutional source, I 416 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 3: estimated their course by what I had seen in the family. 417 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 3: This is really interesting because this idea of mental illness 418 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 3: having such stigma, it's still around today. I mean, it 419 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 3: hasn't gotten that much better. So back in these days 420 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 3: it certainly wouldn't have been something that you would have 421 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 3: talked about. But yeah, so he suffered from these great 422 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 3: highs and great lows, and the story of his demise. 423 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 2: Goes like this. 424 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,639 Speaker 1: Oh, we shall also mentioned, just didnt reject that his 425 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,679 Speaker 1: rediscovered letters show that he had written his will before 426 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: the journey, And he also attempted suicide on the expedition 427 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 1: but was restrained. 428 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:18,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, a good good thing. 429 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,199 Speaker 3: He had his bros around him to kind of pull him, 430 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 3: pull him back from the letge I suppose. 431 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,920 Speaker 1: So what happened? How how did he pass away? 432 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 2: So the story goes like this. 433 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 3: He had booked himself a room at an inn, a tavern, 434 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 3: and he shot himself, but that didn't take because I guess, 435 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,160 Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe those little musket balls, those those 436 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:39,679 Speaker 3: guns don't always discharge properly. 437 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,120 Speaker 2: Maybe it just didn't. It wasn't a death blow. 438 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 3: And so he did it again and that didn't quite 439 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 3: take either, So he decided to go to sleep. He 440 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,120 Speaker 3: went to sleep, and he woke up, you know, not dead, 441 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 3: and then he apparently ran out into the hallway and said, quote, 442 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,439 Speaker 3: give me some water and heal my wounds. And all 443 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 3: the guests were freaking out, and he went back to 444 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 3: sleep and then woke up, and someone witnessed him quote 445 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 3: cutting himself from head to foot. So it took about 446 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 3: twelve hours of time, two bullets, a little bit of sleep, 447 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 3: and a blade for Lewis to finally die. And that 448 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,119 Speaker 3: is like some tortures of the damned kind of stuff, 449 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:24,679 Speaker 3: right there. 450 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:25,160 Speaker 2: Good Lord. 451 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: Self inflicted is the belief, right. This was at the 452 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: Grinder's stand that's in on the Natchez trace, and I 453 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: believe he had one gun shot in the head, one 454 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 1: to the gut, and you know, as you said, he 455 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: ran out and scared the hell out of everyone. Nashville 456 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: newspaper had reported that his throat was cut. There is 457 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: one complicating factor here. Money that he had borrowed from 458 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: a guy named Major Gilbert Russell to complete the journey 459 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 1: was missing. 460 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 2: Uh oh. The plot thickens. 461 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,160 Speaker 1: The plot thickens and Thomas Jeffers and as you pointed out, 462 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: along with some modern historians, generally accepted the idea that 463 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: Lewis died of suicide, but there's still a debate. There's 464 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: still people who say it was homicide for one reason 465 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: or another. 466 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 3: That is pretty fascinating. It does seem like the groundwork 467 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,879 Speaker 3: was laid for him having already demonstrated suicidal tendencies. But 468 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 3: this whole missing money business, yeah, then muddies the water. 469 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: So well, he might have spent it. Because the historian 470 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: Paul Russell Cutwright completely believes this was suicide, and he 471 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: has a pretty detailed takedown of the murder slash robbery theory. 472 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: He says Lewis had a lot of debt, he was 473 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: a heavy drinker, he may have been using morphine and opium. 474 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: He was running late preparing the expedition's journals for publishing. 475 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: He just couldn't get a romantic partner, and he was 476 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,880 Speaker 1: on the outs with Thomas Jefferson. Their relationship was going downhill. 477 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 1: So he's saying that it's plaus that Lewis, given his 478 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: history right his own mental struggles. He's saying it's more 479 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: plausible that Lewis eventually took his own life. 480 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 3: Well, that's a real bummer, and that is surely a 481 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 3: downer way to end this episode. So I'm just going 482 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 3: to throw in one more thing to kind of like 483 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 3: change gas yea, yeah, like a palate clean a little 484 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 3: bit of a palakilans. And that is the fact or 485 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 3: the idea that Thomas Jefferson. One of the big things 486 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 3: he was super excited about them finding on this expedition 487 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 3: was like giant animals, yes, like mammoths, so American, right, yeah, 488 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 3: big time. And something called a megalonics or a megal 489 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 3: megal yeah, megalonics, which is like some kind of giant cat. 490 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 3: And he described it as as pre eminent over the 491 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 3: lion in size, as the mammoth is over the elephant. 492 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 3: And if you want to see a really cool exploration 493 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 3: of this as if it were real. There is a 494 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,400 Speaker 3: comic book series called Manifest Destiny. 495 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've read it. It's on issue thirty six right now. 496 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 2: Ongoing, but you can get the collected trades. 497 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 1: What have you checked it out? 498 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,400 Speaker 3: I've read like the first trade and it's really cool. 499 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 3: But it has some of these crazy creatures. Yeah, yeah, 500 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 3: it's a big part of it. 501 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 1: In this comic they're finding well, i'll tell you this 502 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 1: without spoiling it. In this story in the graphic novel 503 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 1: slash comic book Manifest Destiny. The expedition does run into 504 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,359 Speaker 1: megafauna just a generic term for large animals, but they 505 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: also keep finding these structures that look like the Gateway 506 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: arch there in Saint Louis, And you know what, if 507 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 1: you're a fan of good stories, we highly recommend that. 508 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 1: I'm so glad you mentioned this on air. I was 509 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: reading it. I was rereading it last night. 510 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 2: No way, Yeah, in prep for the podcast. 511 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, all that good historical data in there, because I 512 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 3: think there is some stuff in there that is historically accurate, 513 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 3: but it's largely a fictionalized version with some of these 514 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 3: more high. 515 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 2: And lofty ideas of what this this unsettled wilderness might 516 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 2: be like. So pretty cool stuff. 517 00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, check it out. I like that. I like that. 518 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: A good comic recommendation. 519 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 2: We do whatever we can. Have We made one before. 520 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 1: We may have mentioned comics we like, but I don't 521 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: know if we out and out recommend it. One. 522 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 3: I pledge from this day fourth to always recommend a 523 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 3: comic on every episode. 524 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 2: Okay, now that's too much. 525 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: No, No, as long as caveat as long as it 526 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: doesn't have to completely tie in with. 527 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 3: The episode, and we're gonna do an episode on every 528 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 3: state and we're gonna complete it by the end of 529 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 3: this year. 530 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 2: Whoa, now, I don't know we can make it. Am 531 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 2: I promising too much? 532 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 1: We're only coming out twice a week. 533 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 2: I alwayst forget. It's under promise, over delivered. 534 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 3: So uh. 535 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: There's also another comic called The Black Monday Murders. Has 536 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 1: nothing to do with today's episode, but you will thoroughly 537 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: enjoy it. 538 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 3: And I'm a fan of Lock and Key, which you 539 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 3: loaned me. Yeah, yea, I've been trying to get my 540 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 3: way through it. But it's by Joe Hill, who is 541 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 3: Stephen King's son. Nothing really like anything Stephen King ever did, 542 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 3: though he's got his own thing. 543 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Joe Hill is a fantastic writer. You know what, 544 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 1: let us know what comic books do you like? 545 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 2: Historical or otherwise? 546 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you can let us know right now as 547 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 1: you're listening to this episode. We have to do is 548 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: hop on Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook, especially our Facebook community page, 549 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians, or. 550 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 3: You can write us a good old fashioned email at 551 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 3: Ridiculous at HowStuffWorks dot com. We'd love to thank super 552 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 3: producer Casey Pegram I would like to thank you Ben. 553 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: I'd like to thank you NOL, along with Alex Williams 554 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: who composed our track, our research associate Gabe, who does 555 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: just an amazing jobs right, and. 556 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 3: Big shout outs to Christopher and Eves, who have done 557 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 3: an incredible job. At this point, I still think we've 558 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 3: got a few of their ideas kicking around in the 559 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 3: cancer We'll make sure that we shout them out when 560 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 3: those happen. 561 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: And a shout out to doctor Benjamin Rush. I don't 562 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: know if you meant to be in the history books 563 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: this way, Doc, but congratulations. Nonetheless, Casey, can we get 564 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: an appropriate sound cue? 565 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 566 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.