1 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name 2 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb, and today we have another repeat for 3 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: you because again we're off this week for Christmas. This 4 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: is the Invention of the Crossbow, Part one. This is 5 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: an Invention themed series of episodes. We did this one 6 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:25,319 Speaker 1: originally published eleven fourteen, twenty twenty three. Let's dive right in. 7 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:32,520 Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 8 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name 9 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:41,599 Speaker 1: is Robert. 10 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 3: Lamb, and I am Joe McCormick. And on today's episode 11 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 3: of Stuff to Blow Your Mind, we're going to be 12 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 3: doing one of our invention episodes where we look at 13 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,319 Speaker 3: an invention from history, look at what came before, what 14 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 3: this invention changed, how it works and Rob, the subject 15 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 3: you have picked for today's series is the Crossbow. Now 16 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 3: I have to ask, is there a Dungeons and Dragons 17 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 3: related origin story to you wanting to cover this? 18 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: I mean pretty much, yeah, I think. 19 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,199 Speaker 3: There often is. With you, I feel like I can 20 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 3: I can tell when it's coming. 21 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, because the Crossbow, of course is all over Dungeons 22 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 1: and Dragons. I have definitely role played characters that had crossbows. 23 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: But the thing that's always fascinated me about crossbows and 24 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: role playing games is that is how that is the 25 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: way they're depict it, because a lot of times they 26 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: do end up just becoming guns. You know, they're like 27 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 1: blasters that shoot crossbow bolts, And in a lot of games, 28 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 1: you don't put a lot of emphasis on on the 29 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: device itself and how it's working and any kind of 30 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: like realistic idea about how it's loaded and reloaded and 31 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: that In Dungeons and Dragons, that's the way it tends 32 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: to go, like you can just fire your crossbow every turn, 33 00:01:56,040 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: it's no big deal. But years back, my gaming group 34 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: did another role playing game, and this one was one 35 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: that was tied in with Dragon Age, I believe, and 36 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: I may my memory may be crossed in some of 37 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: these things here and there, because it was like a 38 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: good ten years ago at this point. But if memory serves, 39 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: the crossbow mechanics in that game were perhaps a little 40 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: more accurate to a lot of crossbow technology and some 41 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 1: of the examples we'll discuss here. But it was also 42 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: decidedly unfun because there's one of these situations where I 43 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: often go into gaming, role playing gaming sort of like 44 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:37,959 Speaker 1: imagination first rule second, like, I'll make choices that may 45 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: come back to bite me in the butt because I 46 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 1: didn't think about how the rules would impact my choices. 47 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: And this was definitely a case like that, because I 48 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: had decided I was going to be a dwarf. I 49 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: was going to have this cool crossbow, but said crossbow, 50 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: as it turns out, had to be reloaded for an 51 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 1: entire turn after use. So we get into a battle 52 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,799 Speaker 1: and my dwarf would wire this crossbow, you know, probably 53 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: miss and then the next turn he's just cranking this 54 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: sucker or you know, he has it on the ground 55 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: like redrawing the bow of the crossbow and then gets 56 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: to fire and miss on the following turn. 57 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 3: Now, that might not be more fun, but that is 58 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 3: more accurate because one of the big changes you see 59 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 3: across the history of crossbows is not so much changes 60 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:25,119 Speaker 3: to the basic design of the crossbow itself, but spanning mechanisms, 61 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 3: mechanisms for how you load and draw the string and 62 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 3: lock it into place. So, yeah, I can imagine D 63 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 3: and D would be a lot more cumbersome if you 64 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 3: know your rogue had to get out of cranic quin 65 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 3: every single time to crank the crossbow back and sitting 66 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 3: there like trying to wind it up. 67 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, it could get it can get tedious, which is 68 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: I think is why in Dungeons and Dragons you tend 69 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: to find the crossbow just fires each turn and you 70 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: just assumed that you are you have enough skill to 71 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: make it happen. I don't know, there's probably some sort 72 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: of way you could make make the mechanics bit more engaging, 73 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: but I think probably just firing at each churn is 74 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: the best. 75 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 3: Way to go well. And some of the loading or 76 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 3: spanning mechanisms do appear to have been faster than others 77 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 3: in history, so not all of them had like a 78 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 3: like a windlass or a cranic when one of these 79 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,359 Speaker 3: big cranking mechanisms. There were also mechanisms where you just 80 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 3: have like a stirrup that you put your foot in, 81 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 3: then you pull it back and that works pretty quick. 82 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, assuming you have firm ground underfoot. I ran across 83 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,679 Speaker 1: mention of an ancient Chinese text that was warning against 84 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: using crossbows if you were on like damp ground, and 85 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 1: which makes sense, like suddenly you have your crossbowman out there. 86 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 1: They need the fire, they need a reload. But uh, oh, 87 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: you have trouble either getting your foot down into it, 88 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: or it may be a situation where you need to 89 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 1: lie on your back and then stretch it against your feet, 90 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: and that could also might or might not work, depending 91 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: on how muddy the terrain is. 92 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, you could imagine that, and I guess you would 93 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 3: probably need stable footing, even though, like so the stirrup 94 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 3: method you're pulling against yourself, you might have like a 95 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 3: hook on your belt or something to pull the mechanism 96 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 3: back while you push in the stirrup with your foot, 97 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:11,679 Speaker 3: but then you'd probably need to have the other foot 98 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:12,679 Speaker 3: on stable ground. 99 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, I think all this is kind 100 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: of the appeal of the crossbow is as like an 101 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: idea we were talking before we came in to record here. 102 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: How Like, for my own part, growing up in Tennacy, 103 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 1: being in boy scouts, you had the opportunity to fire 104 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:31,559 Speaker 1: rifles on shooting ranges, you got the opportunity to fire 105 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: to use bow and arrow on archery ranges, But I 106 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: never had the chance to try out a crossbow, And 107 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: so the crossbow was always this kind of like mysterious 108 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: thing in between. And yet unlike a gun, you could 109 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: still look at it and even as a kid, you know, 110 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 1: understand like the basic principles of how it worked. 111 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, because with a crossbow, I mean, just like 112 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 3: with a bow, there can be a lot of different 113 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:02,679 Speaker 3: design elements that could imp improve features of how it works, 114 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:07,479 Speaker 3: improve usability, improve the energy delivered, or the draw length 115 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 3: or whatever the speed of the projectile. But still at core, 116 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,239 Speaker 3: a crossbow operates on the same principle as a bow. 117 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, And of course, yeah, to discuss the crossbow, we're 118 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: going to have to talk a little bit about the 119 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 1: bow at least. And it's not just a situation where well, 120 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: we had the bow and then we created the crossbow 121 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: and just threw out those bows away. It's not nearly 122 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 1: as simple as that. And we'll discuss some of the 123 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: famous examples of crossbows going up against bows and how 124 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: that played out. But the oldest evidence for the bow 125 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: and arrow, as cited by Brian Imfagan and Peter Rowley 126 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: Conley in the seventy Great Inventions of the Ancient World, 127 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: goes back ten thousand years to the early Mesolithic period 128 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,919 Speaker 1: in Denmark. This is a thousand years later than the 129 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: earliest evidence of the arrows twelve thousand years ago and 130 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: what is now Germany in Stone era, head state eighteen 131 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: tho to twenty thousand years ago in Spain, and possibly 132 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 1: have arrow points from sixty to seventy thousand years ago 133 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,119 Speaker 1: in South Africa. The problem with ancient bows, of course, 134 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: is that they were almost always made of organic materials 135 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: that just do not survive the test of time, with 136 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: the actual arrowheads being the most long lasting part of 137 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: the combined weapon technology. 138 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 3: Right, So you'll find evidence of arrowheads going back longer 139 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 3: than clear evidence of the bows themselves. And yeah, I 140 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 3: think that example you mentioned from South Africa, like the 141 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 3: Subudu Cave, is one of the earliest I've read about. 142 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 3: But that's arrowhead evidence. 143 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: Right right. So no, absolutely nobody that I've come across 144 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: as making any argument that that crossbows go back nearly 145 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 1: that far. I think it's it's clear, there's clear indication 146 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: that the bow came first, of course, but it is 147 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: also you know, worth noting that even with things like 148 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: the crossbow, the crossbows still made out of mostly organic material, 149 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: with the main differences being Okay, you have, of course 150 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: the head of the bolt, which may be made out 151 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: of a metal of some sort, and then, as we'll 152 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: discuss later on, you also have the lock of a crossbow. 153 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: This is the implement that holds back the drawn string, 154 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: and so when this is made out of metal, we 155 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: may find evidence of it, such as bronze crossbow locks 156 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: from China. Now on the show before, we've talked a 157 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 1: bit about the history of projectile weapons, particularly, I think 158 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: most recently, we did a series of episodes on animals 159 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: throwing things, and then we did one on humans throwing things, 160 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: and that was really interesting because you got into a 161 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: lot of situations where you're not just throwing any rock, 162 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: you're throwing specially prepared rocks, or you're throwing things like 163 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: hunting sticks at animals that sort of thing. 164 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, you can have modifications of the projectiles themselves, but 165 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 3: in terms of launching technology, we actually did a whole 166 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:03,319 Speaker 3: other episode back when we had a separate Invention podcast 167 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 3: on the Oddoladel, which was a piece of launching technology 168 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 3: that was essentially a lever arm to get increased leverage 169 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 3: on a spear. 170 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 1: So these various non bow and pre bow missile weapon technologies, 171 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: these had a huge impact on the world of hunter gatherers. 172 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: You know, extended the range of human violence beyond physical 173 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 1: human reach, and by the time the bow comes along 174 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 1: and starts spreading, this just extends the range even farther. 175 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: And of course it all served to extend human dominance 176 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: over animals and other hominids, as well as transforming conflict 177 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: between humans. Now, one of the basics about the bow, 178 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: the bow and arrow, and this is something that you 179 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: know is obvious I think by watching it in action, 180 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: is that, as Fagan and Raley Conway point out, the 181 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: bow is essentially a spring that stores energy when the 182 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: bow string is drawn. Then when the string is released, 183 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 1: that energy is transferred into the propulsion of the arrow. 184 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,679 Speaker 1: Different types of wood provided different advantages, and eventually compound 185 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: bows made use of multiple parts to provide maximized performance. 186 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 3: Yes, it is worth noting that despite the different form 187 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 3: and the different way you hold these weapons, a bow 188 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 3: and a crossbow both typically work on the same mechanical principle, 189 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 3: which is the principle of the spring, by storing energy 190 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 3: in the form of elastic potential and then releasing that 191 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 3: potential suddenly to propel an arrow in the case of 192 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 3: a bow, or a bolt in the case of a 193 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 3: crossbow at high speed. Now, when you shoot a bow, 194 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 3: there's actually a common misconception that the energy comes from 195 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 3: stretching the bow string. Even though I know better, I 196 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 3: think sometimes my brain still wants to think this way. 197 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 3: But the string of a bow really doesn't stretch you 198 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 3: very much at all. So that's not where the energy 199 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,079 Speaker 3: has come from coming from. The energy comes from bending 200 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 3: the bow itself, bending the limbs of the bow, and 201 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 3: when you pull the string, it bends the bow. When 202 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 3: you release the string, the bow returns to its original shape, 203 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 3: and it propels the arrow as it does so because 204 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 3: it is pulling the string taut. So the string is 205 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 3: sort of a medium. It's how you pull the bow 206 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 3: back and how the snapping back energy of the bow 207 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 3: is delivered to the arrow. 208 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: This is why Leglas says, and my bow and not 209 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: and my string. 210 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,199 Speaker 3: That's right now. If you've never actually shot a bow 211 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 3: at a target, you might be shocked how much strength 212 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,959 Speaker 3: it takes to draw back a bow. You know, I've 213 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 3: done this at various points in my life. Most recently 214 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,319 Speaker 3: several years back, I did a goofy little archery range 215 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 3: at a Renaissance festival, and even in that setting, I 216 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 3: remember being shocked at how difficult it was to pull 217 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 3: back the bow and surprised at how aiming the bow 218 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 3: was made so much more difficult than it looks because 219 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 3: of the tension when you're holding a drawn bow, so 220 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 3: you're flexing, you know, maybe as hard as you can 221 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 3: when you pull a bow string back, and that intense 222 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 3: exertion makes it harder to aim your shot. Your arm 223 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 3: might want to tremble. You're straining with your whole body. 224 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 3: You're also putting a lot of strain on your hand 225 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 3: and your fingers that are holding the bow string back. 226 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 3: So imagine trying to aim something precisely while you're in 227 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 3: the middle of a bench press or some other weight lift. 228 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 3: And so it's easy to see how a crossbow really 229 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 3: changes the game there. A crossbow allows the tension of 230 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 3: the bow to be locked in place and then released 231 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 3: by an external mechanism instead of being drawn, held and 232 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 3: released purely by the strength of your muscles and bones. 233 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: That's right, And this is where the genius of the 234 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: crossbow comes in because the crossbow, I mean you can 235 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 1: almost think of the crossbow as like a robotic technological 236 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: replacement for the arm or the arms in this scenario, 237 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: because once the bow is drawn back, this trigger or 238 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: lock holds everything in place, holds all of that potential 239 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,839 Speaker 1: power in place, and then it can be released by 240 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: pulling a trigger. 241 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 3: And this is a point I actually saw emphasized by 242 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 3: the author of a book I'm gonna mention at some 243 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 3: point in this series that a big difference between say, 244 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:32,959 Speaker 3: somebody who was a skilled archer with a long bow 245 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 3: versus somebody who was a skilled crossbow operator in the 246 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 3: medieval period. Say, a big difference would be the level 247 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 3: of fitness required in order to be a long bow operator. 248 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 3: There is just like way more requirement of real upper 249 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 3: body strength and training, of physical training, not just skill training. 250 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of skill involved the use of 251 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: a bow, and I should highlight they're going to differences 252 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: depending on where and how a bow is utilized for 253 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: what specific hunting or military uses and so forth. I mean, 254 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,559 Speaker 1: for example, there's a difference between the skill of a 255 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: bowman on foot and a mounted archer out there in 256 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: a battle scenario. But one of the primary examples of 257 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: archery expertise that I'm gonna mention here and also pops 258 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: up in a lot of the literature, is, of course 259 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: the archers who used the English long bow. This was 260 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: a powerful bow that required a considerable amount of upper 261 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: body strength, and you had to work for years to 262 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: build up the strength to use these weapons, and generally 263 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: had to start at a very early age. More on 264 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 1: the English long bow in a minute here, But one 265 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:53,119 Speaker 1: of the key factors to consider in all this is drawweight. 266 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: None of this will come as a shock to any 267 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: bow hunters out there for sure, and maybe you can 268 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: write in and tell us few things about all of this. 269 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: But the idea is that pulling back on I say, 270 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: sixty pound drawweight bow would be like lifting a sixty 271 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: pound weight off the ground. But then, of course, as 272 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: we've been discussing, it's not just lifting that sixty pound weight, 273 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: it's holding it, aiming it, perhaps with your life on 274 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: the line in a military scenario, and then releasing it. 275 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, trying to finally control both aim and timing while 276 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 3: you are holding back this extremely heavy weight. Now regarding 277 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 3: the basic physics of a bow draw I was looking 278 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 3: around on this and one great source I came across 279 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 3: was actually an old school house stuff works article takes 280 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 3: me back. 281 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, who wrote this one? 282 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 3: One buyer, our friend Tracy Wilson now host of stuff 283 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 3: you missed in history class. Nice, But Tracy's article on 284 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 3: how the crossbow works goes into several of the main 285 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 3: variables that determine the energy of a bow shot. So, 286 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 3: as you were just saying, there is what's called a 287 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 3: bow's draw weight, and this is the force it takes 288 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 3: to draw the bow, and this depends on multiple things 289 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 3: like the material properties of the bow, material on the 290 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 3: size of the bow, its shape and design, and so forth. 291 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 3: There is also the draw length, which is the distance 292 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 3: between the bow strings resting position and the point that 293 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 3: you draw it back to. And of course draw length 294 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 3: is not an intrinsic property of the bow, but changes 295 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 3: with each draw, like you could draw it back to 296 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 3: different lengths, and so it would be a characteristic of 297 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 3: a bow shot. Also, generally the draw weight increases along 298 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 3: with the draw length, so the farther you pull the 299 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 3: bow string back, the more force it takes. So you 300 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 3: might say that there a bow has a certain draw 301 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 3: weight at a certain draw length. 302 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: Because even with say an English long bow, a child 303 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: will be able to pick it up and pull back 304 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: that pull the bow back a little bit, but not 305 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: enough to actually get to the full the full draw 306 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: and the full potential of the boat. 307 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 3: Yes, And this actually comes back to questions medieval history. 308 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 3: Nerds like to ask, like, you know, how exactly how 309 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 3: much strength does it take to shoot an English long 310 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 3: bow of the thirteenth century or something, And you could say, well, 311 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 3: you know, if the bow is made like this, it 312 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,640 Speaker 3: would take this much strength to shoot it at its 313 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 3: full potential, you know, with this amount of draw length. 314 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 3: But probably anybody could underdraw the bow. So it's just 315 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,479 Speaker 3: a question of like how effective you are at using it. 316 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:37,719 Speaker 1: Yeah. 317 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 3: But regarding these variables draw weight and draw length, they 318 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 3: can affect the shot in various ways. For example, the 319 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 3: longer the draw length in terms of distance, the longer 320 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 3: in terms of time, the string will be pushing the 321 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,199 Speaker 3: arrow before it is released. Does that make sense, so 322 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 3: that imparts more energy you pull it actually farther back 323 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 3: the is pushing the arrow and giving it force longer, 324 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 3: And so the energy stored for a bow shot can 325 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 3: be calculated as roughly draw weight times draw length divided 326 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,880 Speaker 3: by two, and then the energy of the shot would 327 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 3: be measured in units like foot pounds. You know, the 328 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 3: energy required to lift one pound by one foot or jewels, 329 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 3: So the design of a bow can make a big 330 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 3: difference in the energy it can deliver. A long bow 331 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 3: with a longer draw length and a heavier draw weight 332 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 3: tends to impart more energy to the arrow and thus 333 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 3: increase its range, and a long bow can shoot over 334 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 3: longer distances and tend to shoot heavier arrows. But materials matter. Traditionally, 335 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 3: bows were made out of strong and elastic woods you know, 336 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 3: for in the case of the English longbow, the wood 337 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 3: of the yew tree is often mentioned, but modern bows 338 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 3: are often made of different materials and parts designed to 339 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 3: flex and store energy in different ways. Is often not 340 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:06,120 Speaker 3: just one piece of wood anymore, but different kinds of materials. 341 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 3: And there is also a difference that's important to remember 342 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 3: between compound bows and composite bows. You can mix them 343 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,959 Speaker 3: up because they both start with com but composite bows 344 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 3: are regular bows made out of a combination of different materials, 345 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 3: often laminated together so traditionally by combining wood with different 346 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 3: types of animal parts like horn and sinew, Whereas compound 347 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 3: bows are bows that use different parts such as pulleys 348 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 3: or other levering machines to give the archer mechanical advantage 349 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:41,360 Speaker 3: in drawing back to allow maybe for more rigid bow 350 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 3: material to be used. 351 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: So it's composite materials and then compounded force. 352 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 3: Right, Compound bows have machines in them, like pulleys or levers. 353 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:53,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and I think I think everyone's probably seen, 354 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: especially like it's kind of like an almost iconic of 355 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: modern say bow hunters. You'll see those various pulleys on 356 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:01,400 Speaker 1: the bow. 357 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 3: And so all of these mechanical principles basically apply to 358 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 3: crossbows as well, though there are some common design differences 359 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 3: that you would observe with crossbows, even though they're not necessarily. 360 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 3: They're not necessary to the principle of a crossbow. For example, 361 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 3: crossbows typically have shorter limbs than long bows, and also 362 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 3: shorter bolts, so a shorter draw length. Though that's not 363 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 3: fundamental to what a crossbow is. It just happens to 364 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 3: be that crossbows are usually like that. 365 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: Now. One source I was looking at for different stats 366 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: on draw strength was a website called bowhunting dot com, 367 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: which points out that modern compound bows are pretty excellent. 368 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: They say you can comfortably hunt with a forty pound 369 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: draw bow, and that's perfectly reasonable for most hunting scenarios 370 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: with big game, I'm assuming they're mostly talking about something 371 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: like a deer. In this case, they specify sixty to 372 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: sixty five for something like a moose or an elk. 373 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: And they point out that some shooters today can handle 374 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: seventy eighty or ninety pound bows. So this brings us 375 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:06,159 Speaker 1: to the question, all right, well, we talked about the 376 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: English long bow is sort of the bow part excellence. 377 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 1: Well what kind of draw are we talking about on 378 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: those Well, it turns out it's a matter of some debate, 379 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 1: but the best you English long bows may have required 380 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 1: and a mistress may it depends on who's crunching the 381 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: figures here, but it may have required between one hundred 382 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: and fifty and one hundred and eighty pound draws. That's 383 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: eighty one point six kilograms on the upper end. 384 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 3: And even if it's not that high, I mean a 385 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 3: over one hundred pound draw, which I think is widely 386 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 3: agreed upon. Is that's still incredibly Yeah, that is It's 387 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 3: hard to imagine, and. 388 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,439 Speaker 1: Like I've been saying, it would not only be you know, 389 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: a test of strength to draw that bow to aim 390 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 1: and then release it just a single time you have 391 00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 1: to remember that, especially in a warfare situation, the arch 392 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: sure would be firing over and over again. Repetition is 393 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 1: key even in a hunting scenario. According to bowhunting dot Com, 394 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: the rule of thumb is that whatever weight you're using 395 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,199 Speaker 1: on your bow, you need to be able to do 396 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: it thirty times in a row without feeling fatigued. 397 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 3: That's a lot of reps. 398 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't think that means that you're necessarily firing 399 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 1: thirty arrows at a single deer, but I think that's 400 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: the general idea is if you can't do that, then 401 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: you need to cut back on your draw strength. 402 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 3: I hesitate to speculate because I know nothing about bow hunting, 403 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 3: but I imagine that would be about trying to aim 404 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 3: and time the correct shots. So you might be drawing 405 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 3: in cases where you wouldn't actually be releasing the arrow. 406 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, not every time you 407 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: draw back or you're actually going to fire that in 408 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: that arrow. So the English longbow was the ultimate missile 409 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 1: weapon during the one hundred Years of War and saw 410 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 1: use into the sixteenth century. I played an important role 411 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 1: in multiple battles. We'll get to one in a minute, 412 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: but another one is the Battle of Agincourt from fourteen fifteen, 413 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: in which the English forces famously focused I think eighty 414 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 1: percent of their battle force unarranged weapons to secure victory. 415 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:12,919 Speaker 1: In this and other examples, we should point out like 416 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 1: it's not as important as the weaponry choice is. It's 417 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: not the only factor. Of course, there are other factors 418 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 1: involved in any given warfare scenario. The bows may not 419 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: survive all that well, as we've discussed, but skeletons do. 420 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: And while this is apparently also not a one hundred 421 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 1: percent agreed upon issue, you do have this situation where 422 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty two the wreck of the Mary Rose 423 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: was raised. This is a ship that sank English ship 424 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 1: that's thank in fifteen fifty four, and the skeletons on 425 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: board displayed a disproportionate amount of a shoulder ossification condition 426 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:56,400 Speaker 1: known as os acromiali. This is actually associated with elite archery, 427 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 1: so you know, repeatedly drawing back them some sort of 428 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 1: a powerful bow for example, and there were long bows 429 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 1: on board. It's not one again, but it's an often 430 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: cited correlation when it comes to just like talking about 431 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,439 Speaker 1: like what sort of physical prowess would be required to 432 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: use these bows efficiently in a warfare scenario. 433 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,159 Speaker 3: So the point being that both the longbow and the 434 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,679 Speaker 3: crossbow could be highly effective in various scenarios for hunting 435 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 3: or for warfare or whatever. But the longbow required incredible 436 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,880 Speaker 3: physical strength and intense physical training, whereas the crossbow did 437 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 3: require some skill training you had to know how to 438 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 3: use it, but did not place the same kind of 439 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 3: demands on the human body. 440 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: Right, And even in cases where you didn't have any 441 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: kind of a pulley system, etc. To aid you in 442 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 1: drawing the crossbow, you at least did not have to 443 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,400 Speaker 1: do any kind of precision aiming while doing it. All 444 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: you had to worry about was getting it drawn back 445 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 1: all the way and then the lock would come into place, 446 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: and then you can aim without having to endear that 447 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: physical strain. So yeah, as Fagan and Raley Conway point out, Yeah, 448 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,199 Speaker 1: the crossbow can be kept drawn for much longer than 449 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: an archer can possibly hold a drawn bow, and the 450 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 1: crossbow can be made even more powerful than the strongest bow. 451 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 1: But I have to stress on this as we'll discuss. 452 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,440 Speaker 1: I mean, this all comes down to scale, right, I mean, 453 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,160 Speaker 1: and range. There are a number of factors involved there, 454 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: because any given crossbow is not necessarily more powerful than 455 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: a bow, as we'll discuss. But yeah, one of the 456 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 1: key advantages here is that it kind of democratizes the 457 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 1: use of a bow weapon. While a bow's power is 458 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,360 Speaker 1: limited by the strength of the archer, a crossbow can 459 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: again be drawn via mechanical devices, so you can end 460 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,640 Speaker 1: up with a weapon that ensures greater accuracy, at least 461 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 1: at short to medium ranges, with less specialized training required. 462 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 1: The downside, of course, as we already alluded to, is 463 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: that actually drawing the crossbow tends to take more time 464 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: than drawing a bow. Again, if I'm one side, you 465 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: have somebody who can effectively draw the long bow that 466 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 1: they're using, and on the other side, you have someone 467 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: who has a nice crossbow. And this is especially true 468 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: if you're having to employ some sort of mechanical apparatus 469 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: to draw the crossbow, but it also seems true if 470 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 1: you're having to do something like, you know, stick it 471 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: in the ground and then draw back using your arms 472 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: and your legs. 473 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 3: One other difference in the calculation I have come across 474 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 3: is the idea that the crossbow equipment would generally be 475 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 3: more expensive than longbow equipment. 476 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 1: That's a good point too, So either more gears and 477 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 1: so forth that are involved, it may make it easier 478 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 1: for everyone to use it, but it becomes a more 479 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:45,160 Speaker 1: specialized technology as well. Now, another important battle to touch 480 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: on is another scenario involving the English longbow, and that's 481 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: the Battle of Creasy from thirteen forty six, in which 482 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 1: the technology of the English longbow ensured victory over French crossbowmen. 483 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 1: And I was reading about this in the book Connections 484 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: by James Burke, who we've brought him up on the 485 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: show before, and I think fairly recently somebody wrote in 486 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: about James Burke's work on our listener mail episodes. But 487 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: Burke points out that the English longbow had exceptional range. 488 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: He cites four hundred yards and special steel arrowheads that 489 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 1: were designed to punch through armor at close range, and 490 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 1: he points out that experienced archer could loose nine arrows 491 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 1: in a minute, while the French crossbowmen required lengthier reload time. 492 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 1: So the idea is like the archers have fired, the 493 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 1: crossbowmen fire, and then before the crossbowmen can reload their weapons, 494 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: the archers have fired again. However, the experienced archer. Part 495 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: of the scenario is key. Once more, Burke writes that 496 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: within decades of this pivotal battle that saw the championing 497 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,119 Speaker 1: of the English longbow over crossbows and traditional armored knights, 498 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: it was after this ten years later, increasingly impossible to 499 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: find enough skilled archers to power the long bow and 500 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 1: provide the sort of overwhelming fire power that ruled the 501 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 1: day at Creasy. Burke discusses the possible reasons for this 502 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: at length in the book, and I believe in them 503 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: of course the documentary TV series as well, and he 504 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 1: cites a number of different different different reasons entailing the 505 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: continued recovery from the plague, improvements in plowing technology, various 506 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: other inventions and innovations, improved diets, and also a general 507 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 1: improvement in the quality of life for the average human. 508 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 1: Burke writes, quote, it took years for a man to 509 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: be trained to use the six foot u bow, and 510 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: here was the adult male population frittering away valuable training 511 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: hours enjoying itself. The reason therefore, that the long bow 512 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: enjoyed such a brief spell of success lay in the 513 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: rising standard of living which the agricultural revolution had brought about. 514 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 3: Although interestingly, I was reading historical fact about how the 515 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 3: introduction of widespread crossbow use did not eliminate this tension 516 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 3: between between sort of like free time and enjoyment and 517 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 3: the military leaders emphasis that everybody really should be training. 518 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 3: So there's a book I've been looking at called The 519 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 3: Medieval Crossbow by Stuart Ellis Gorman, published in the year 520 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 3: twenty twenty two Pen and Sword Military Press, and this 521 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 3: is a book length investigation of the crossbow. And I 522 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 3: was reading a reddit ama with this this author who 523 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 3: points out that you have multiple ordinances from the government 524 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 3: in various places throughout medieval Europe, in England but also 525 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 3: in late medieval France and at some point in Genoa 526 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 3: that were like banning leisure activities and telling people to 527 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 3: be doing archery or crossbow practice instead. So like Genoa 528 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 3: at some point banned tournaments and banned gambling and said 529 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 3: you should be seeing your crossbow instead of doing these things. 530 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like the Conan the Barbarian principle. You know, 531 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: you watch Conan the Barbarian, It's like, yeah, he's a 532 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 1: great warrior, but man, he seems miserable. He's not he's 533 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 1: not really making any time or is given any time 534 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 1: to do anything else. So you know, of course he's 535 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: this mighty warrior. But is it becomes less as people 536 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: begin to have other choices in their life. They're not 537 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: they're not just constantly, constantly practicing those archery skills, and 538 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: therefore you can see the shift perhaps being made to 539 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: something like the crossbow that is usable by the average person, 540 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 1: but without all of this extensive training. 541 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 3: Though as the shows, it wouldn't require the same level 542 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 3: of physical training, but you would still have to practice. 543 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you couldn't. You couldn't just hand them out 544 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 1: and expect everyone to just automatically hit everything you're aiming at. 545 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: Though I guess there's room in that statement for various 546 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: arguments about what sort of scale are you handing them 547 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 1: out at? And certainly, as we may discuss in this 548 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,600 Speaker 1: episode in the next, I mean, there are examples where 549 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: a lot of crossbows are deployed in given battles in 550 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: different scenarios. Now this leads us to the question, of course, 551 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: when do we see the earliest crossbows, And of course, 552 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: in one of the issues again in dating earliest crossbows, 553 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: of course, are the organic materials that aren't going to 554 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: survive the test of time, and you're having to rely 555 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: on things like crossbow bolt heads and also the locks. 556 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: But another interesting point that's brought up by Fagan and 557 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:45,120 Speaker 1: Raley Conway is that sometimes it's difficult to say what's 558 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: a crossbow and what's a catapult. They point out that 559 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: the earliest crossbows in some regions anyway kind of resembled 560 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 1: small catapults, and there was likely, they think, some sort 561 00:31:55,520 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: of transformative step from stationary to mobile weaponry. Here kind 562 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 1: of imagine this is kind of like you can imagine 563 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: people thinking, what if we made a bigger bow, Well, 564 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: we wouldn't be able to pull that back. We'd have 565 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: to do something else. And then they're like, okay, I've 566 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: created it, and what have you created? It's kind of 567 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: like a cross It's kind of like a big crossbow. 568 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: It's kind of also like a catapult. And then you 569 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: might think this is interesting, what have we scaled this 570 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: back down? And then you could hold it? 571 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 3: Yes, though I do think scale does tend to place 572 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 3: different requirements on like what kinds of mechanisms you can use. 573 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 3: For example, you can look at the the ballista, which 574 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 3: is like a siege weapon, which has existed since ancient 575 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 3: times and say, well, that looks a lot like a crossbow, 576 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 3: but it does have a different mechanism for storing energy 577 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 3: than the crossbow does. The crossbow stores it in the 578 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 3: tension of the bow of the limbs, whereas there I 579 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 3: can't remember exactly what the mechanism is for the ballista, 580 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 3: but it's different. I think it has to do with 581 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 3: like winding ropes or something. 582 00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: M Yeah, so catapults, we might have to come back 583 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 1: to another siege equipment, because there's a lot of interesting 584 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: innovation that goes on there. Apparently, biblical accounts point back 585 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: to the reign of Uzaiah around eight hundred BCE as 586 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 1: a possible time during which people were using catapults, and 587 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: then there's a definite mention of them in Sicily around 588 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: four hundred BCE. But of course all this stems from 589 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 1: ancient world scenarios in which you had walled city states 590 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 1: encountering siege situations, and of course the besiegers would have 591 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: to devise various ways to have to contend with this, 592 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 1: and of course the besieged on their end, would come 593 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: up with various means of defending themselves. So Fagan and 594 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: Rowley Conway point to two key dates for earliest crossbow emergence, 595 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 1: one in second century BCE Rome, which will come back 596 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 1: to in a bit, and the other in fifth century 597 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: BCE China. Now you can well ask for these independent advances. 598 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 1: Perhaps it's also been arives by many that the Chinese 599 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: invention simply spread to the West, perhaps more than once. 600 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: And we can't necessarily connect all the dots here, but 601 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: you can point out the key dots and some of 602 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,879 Speaker 1: the time periods that are associated with them. 603 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, so you don't know exactly how it traveled, though 604 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 3: it does seem to me uncontroversially agreed upon that the 605 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 3: earliest crossbow usage was in ancient China. 606 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:28,800 Speaker 1: Yes, so the fifth century BC dating believe concerns bronze 607 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 1: crossbow components, bronze bold heads, bronze crossbow locks, and these 608 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 1: have been dated to the mid seventh century BCE. Bolts 609 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 1: have also turned up in Chinese tombs from this time period. 610 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 1: John Key, in his book on Chinese history, rights that 611 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: the crossbow was long quote the weapon of first choice 612 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: in the Chinese military, but advancements in equestrian power did 613 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 1: end up limiting its effectiveness somewhat so these would not 614 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 1: so much be the fact that people were riding the horses, 615 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,400 Speaker 1: but people were armed on the horse. The horse and 616 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: the strength of the horse and the speed of the horse, 617 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,760 Speaker 1: we're able to convey an armored individual around more easily. 618 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,439 Speaker 1: But of course this comes a good bit later. 619 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,720 Speaker 3: But it's not just artifacts, right, because I think ancient 620 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 3: Chinese texts do make explicit mention of the crossbow. 621 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, Sun Zoo in the Art of War from the 622 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 1: fifth century BCE definitely mentions them. It brings up like, 623 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: sort of philosophically right that it says, quote, energy may 624 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 1: be likened to the bending of a crossbow, decision to 625 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 1: the releasing of a trigger. 626 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 3: Ah, so the physical device there being so familiar by 627 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 3: the point of sun Zu's writing that it's that it's 628 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 3: a proper source of metaphor. 629 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like this is not what 630 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:44,520 Speaker 1: he's talking about, but it's kind of like you can 631 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 1: imagine someone saying, hey, when it comes to slinging insults, 632 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 1: do you want to be an archer or a crossbow wielder? 633 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,320 Speaker 1: You know, be a crossbow wielder. Think up that insult 634 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 1: in advance, store it away, store its potential away, and 635 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 1: then when the time comes, you pull the trigger. Now, 636 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 1: one source that we often come back to when we 637 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 1: discuss technology and innovation and invention in ancient China is 638 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:10,880 Speaker 1: of course the work of Joseph Needam's, particularly his Science 639 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 1: and Civilization in China series, which gosh, off the top 640 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: of my head, I can't remember how many volumes are 641 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: in this series. Anytime I read it, I'm always I 642 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,440 Speaker 1: always get excited about it, and I'll take a moment 643 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 1: to see if I can just buy them all, and 644 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: then I quickly realized that I cannot do that. They're 645 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 1: they're not necessarily in print, and there are a bunch 646 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 1: of them. 647 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,760 Speaker 3: If I'm not mistaken. Though Joseph Needum was the original author, 648 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,960 Speaker 3: the Science and Civilization and China series has sort of 649 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 3: continued after his death. 650 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,399 Speaker 1: Right, that's right. And then also some volumes have been 651 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:49,840 Speaker 1: somewhat abbreviated because they are there by other authors. They're 652 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 1: pretty extensive, but I've always found them to be very 653 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:57,400 Speaker 1: readable and enjoyable. And his mastery and the mastery of 654 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,879 Speaker 1: those who was working with, not only historically but linguistically, 655 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,959 Speaker 1: it's just awe inspiring. But one thing that he points 656 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:05,400 Speaker 1: out I'm going to mention a few things that he 657 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,960 Speaker 1: mentions about the crossbow in these books. He writes, quote, 658 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,760 Speaker 1: it has been demonstrated that in ancient times in China, 659 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:16,920 Speaker 1: the progress of invention in offensive weapons, especially the efficient crossbow, 660 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:21,799 Speaker 1: far outstripped progress in defensive armor. This, he points out, 661 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 1: is reflected in various accounts of feudal lords in ancient 662 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 1: China being overtaken by peasants armed with crossbows. So this 663 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 1: is just like another case of like a very very 664 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:35,400 Speaker 1: broad generality that you can make about the crossbow in 665 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:39,279 Speaker 1: that it democratizes the use of the bow weapon. You 666 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,120 Speaker 1: don't have to be an expert archer to wield it. 667 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:47,480 Speaker 1: And especially if, like Needham was writing here, if you 668 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: have defensive innovation is lagging behind offensive innovation, you may 669 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: have the upper hand. Now, there wasn't just one Chinese crossbow, 670 00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:59,919 Speaker 1: and I think in the next episode I'll talk about 671 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,799 Speaker 1: a specific innovation, but there were multiple innovations of the crossbow, 672 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 1: and Needham discusses that one of the standard Chinese crossbows 673 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,520 Speaker 1: would be loaded by either lying on your back or 674 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:14,719 Speaker 1: standing on the bow using leg thrusts and arms to 675 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 1: cock the bow. Now, another thing he points out concerns gunpowder. 676 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 1: We did an episode or episodes about the invention of gunpowder, 677 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:27,160 Speaker 1: and we talked a bit in that about Chinese innovations 678 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,359 Speaker 1: concerning gunpowder, even in an offensive capacity, And he points 679 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,239 Speaker 1: out that, yeah, crossbows were also used with various incendiary 680 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:39,239 Speaker 1: implements of flammable or explosive crossbow bolts, etc. On the 681 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 1: other hand, sometimes crossbow was used in the naming of 682 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,800 Speaker 1: a pyrotechnic ranged weapon, even if it was not actually 683 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,120 Speaker 1: a crossbow. He brings up the example of the fire 684 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:55,400 Speaker 1: crossbow meteoric arrow shooter. That's like the literal translation of 685 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 1: the Chinese here, But he points out it's not as 686 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 1: the name andies a crossbow. It's also not as the 687 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: name implies a rocket. He describes it as a quote 688 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:09,360 Speaker 1: proto gun firing ten poisoned arrows at a time, which 689 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,520 Speaker 1: came out quote like a flock of locusts. So still 690 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:15,719 Speaker 1: kind of hard to imagine what that is, but apparently 691 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,400 Speaker 1: not an actual crossbow. But it's like, again, the technology 692 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,279 Speaker 1: is along so so long it becomes a metaphor. It 693 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 1: also becomes a way of thinking about subsequent innovations and discoveries. 694 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 1: But on the crossbow itself. He writes that quote China 695 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 1: of the Warring States period fifth century PCE was almost 696 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 1: certainly the home of the crossbow, and by the time 697 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,240 Speaker 1: that this became the standard weapon of the Han armies, 698 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,600 Speaker 1: it had acquired a bronze trigger mechanism of beautiful and 699 00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 1: intricate construction. The crossbow was introduced to the Western world 700 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,759 Speaker 1: probably twice before the fifth century and again during the 701 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:55,760 Speaker 1: tenth century. He also contends that in this the trigger 702 00:39:55,840 --> 00:40:00,200 Speaker 1: as we know it extends from Chinese technological origins, the 703 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 1: trigger as something that would be used to fire guns. 704 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,319 Speaker 1: But then also we can take that even further and 705 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 1: just think about like the use of a trigger again 706 00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:11,120 Speaker 1: as a technological metaphor. 707 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 3: Right, Well, I mean there are tons of inventions that 708 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:19,560 Speaker 3: are that are not weapons that have like elastic potential 709 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 3: stored in some way and there's a trigger lock holding 710 00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 3: it in place that can be released. 711 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:26,440 Speaker 1: All right, Well, we're gonna go ahead and close out 712 00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 1: this episode, but we will be back with more discussions 713 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:33,440 Speaker 1: of the crossbow, the invention of the crossbow. We want 714 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:37,239 Speaker 1: to get more into early examples of the crossbows in 715 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:43,640 Speaker 1: Western traditions and Mediterranean traditions. Specifically. Also, there are a 716 00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,879 Speaker 1: couple of key innovations I want to touch on from 717 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,799 Speaker 1: either the Middle East or again Chinese crossbow innovation of 718 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,560 Speaker 1: later years. And in the meantime, Yes, if you have 719 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,920 Speaker 1: any personal experience of crossbowts you'd like to chime in 720 00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,520 Speaker 1: about or with the bow, We did a good bit 721 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:01,799 Speaker 1: of discussion from there about the bow. Or if you 722 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,400 Speaker 1: just have experience in the imagined worlds of Dungeons and 723 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,440 Speaker 1: Dragons and other games concerning the use of a crossbow, 724 00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,200 Speaker 1: well that's fair game as well. Just a reminder, The 725 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is primarily a science podcast, 726 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:17,200 Speaker 1: with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays. On Mondays we 727 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,400 Speaker 1: do listener mail. On Wednesdays we usually have an artifact 728 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,520 Speaker 1: or monster fact episode, and then on Fridays we set 729 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:24,560 Speaker 1: aside most series concerns to just talk about a weird 730 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,239 Speaker 1: movie on Weird House Cinema. 731 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,000 Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Jj Posway. 732 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,000 Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us 733 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,520 Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest 734 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello, 735 00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,399 Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow 736 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:47,680 Speaker 3: your Mind dot com. 737 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,719 Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 738 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,600 Speaker 2: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 739 00:41:53,760 --> 00:42:10,759 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.