WEBVTT - Slap Shot with Mike Loftus 0:00:01.000 --> 0:00:03.960 On the Bechde Cast, the questions asked if movies have 0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:08.000 women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:13.119 or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zephim fast start 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:15.960 changing it with the Bechdel Cast. 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:18.400 Happy Birthday, Jamie. 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:22.160 Thank you so much, Boom, slam, punch. 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:24.480 Slap, inside shot. 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:30.000 Divorce, so many themes. 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:33.000 Homophobia, so many themes. 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:37.760 Pittsburgh, mm hmm. I was really excited that this movie 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:39.479 took place. I was like, I was like, where is 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:41.519 Kaitlyn going to connect with this movie. There's got to 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:43.720 be somewhere. I was like, Pennsylvania. 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:45.599 It's the Pennsylvania Connection. 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:49.199 So okay, Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:50.560 Jamie Laftus. 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:52.880 My name is Caitlin Derante, and this is our show 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:58.040 where we analyze movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:01.440 the Bechdel Test simply as a jumping off point to 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:05.720 initiate much larger, much grander conversations. 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:09.319 It's true, and the Bechdel Test, of course, is a 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:12.400 media metric created by Alice and Bechdel as a joke 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:15.400 as a goof back in the eighties in her comic 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:19.680 Likes to watch out for. It started as just a 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:22.800 one off joke, but has since become a way to 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:26.200 talk about how and if women are represented in movies 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:29.920 and people of marginalized genders in general. A lot of 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:32.440 versions of the test. The version of the test that 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:37.480 we observe to start our conversation is the test requires 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:41.760 that there be two characters with names of a marginalized 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:45.680 gender talking about something other than men for two lines 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:47.120 of dialogue. 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:50.560 Or more or more, preferably more often but not. It 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:53.120 doesn't happen that way usually. 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:55.920 But there's so much to talk about. It's not the 0:01:55.960 --> 0:02:00.000 b L and end all of any movie. And today 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:02.840 it's it comes but twice a year, a birthday episode 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:07.000 where Caitlin and I really get to go absolutely hogwild 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:11.240 on on our on our choice of movie, on our 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:14.960 choice of guest. It's a fun time. And this has 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:18.800 been an episode that has been it's not an episode 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:21.959 that's ever been. It's been requested by one person. It's 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:26.920 no coincidence of that person's sorry guest. Yeah, but I 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:29.639 would say it's been well, Dad, what do you how 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:31.280 long have you been asking me about This's been a 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:32.080 couple of years. 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:36.560 Well, how long have you had the show seven years now, 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:37.639 it hasn't been seven years. 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:39.320 I would say at least four years. 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:42.280 Well, we've talked about this, I mean in your other 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:46.000 podcast life when you did the Kathy podcast. You know, 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:48.519 it was a it was a thought that I had that, 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:51.600 you know, there was this comic. It wasn't for everybody, 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:55.280 but the more I thought about it, it was kind 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:58.400 of it was unique first time. You know, it was 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:02.160 like there really weren't in themic strips. You know, women 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:06.240 were moms or girlfriends, maybe teachers, but there was never 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:10.400 like a single business woman. So I tossed that to you, 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:13.640 and I guess in the case of slap Shot, you know, 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:15.480 I sort of was thinking of a Kathy thing too, 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:19.560 because you know, there are interesting to me, you know, 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:25.520 representations of women and their stories, and that's that's what 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:28.400 your cast is all about, you and Caitlin. So I thought, well, 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:31.120 you know, throw it out there and see what they think. 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:34.440 And here we are, and sure enough, we're doing it. 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:37.920 We're covering a slap shot and the guest you just 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:40.760 heard Alan Kitlyn usually introduced the guests, but they have 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:43.560 generously offered me the opportunity. 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:44.720 It's your time to shine. 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:53.080 Jamie, our guest today, is a former hockey writer, current 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:56.840 hockey fan. Has been covering hockey since the eighties, been 0:03:56.880 --> 0:04:01.080 playing hockey since the seventies when the movie comes out. 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:08.160 He's also a proud father to two wonderful children, lifelong 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:13.600 Brocton residents, a Brockton legend. It's Mike loftis welcome. Welcome 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:14.240 to the cast. 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:17.520 Dad, Welcome, Jamie. Good to see you, and good to 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:18.479 see you too, Caitlyn. 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:24.800 Thank you for listeners. I'm currently in Brockton at my 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:28.120 dad's house and he's he's downstairs with my equipment. I'm 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:31.480 upstairs with my phone. We've had a very professional setup. 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:33.599 It's like we're not even. But he did drive me 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:36.160 to Dunkin Donuts right before the episode, so that. 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:40.840 On you gotta have your birthday dunks. 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:45.080 Yeah, it's true, it's yeah, it's I'm feeling the birthday love. 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:48.880 I'm feeling thrilled about the birthday. So yeah, the my 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:51.000 memory of I don't remember when you first brought this 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:53.760 movie up to me for the Bechdel cast, but you 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:57.080 every time you're like, I think it would just be 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:00.440 like if I happen to be talking about work you'd 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:03.599 be like, you know, flap Shot is written by a 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:08.720 woman that was just kind of the pitch and it 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:09.560 stuck with me. 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:13.119 And you pitched it to me Jamie multiple times as well, 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:19.080 and I was it was yeah later, which. 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:21.640 To be fair, it's not a personal attack. That's how 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:24.919 most of our episodes end up happening. We think it 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:28.880 over for a good two years, and then eventually we 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:31.560 cover it. I feel like that has become kind of 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:32.000 our habit. 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:32.640 It's true. 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:36.400 Anyways, Yeah, we're covering slap Shot. It is a nineteen 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:41.000 seventy seven film is directed by George roy Hill. It 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:46.640 is written by Nancy Dawd. It stars Paul Newman amongst 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:49.520 Caitlin Is Oh I learned this. I learned this as 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:53.200 wearying dad. Caitlyn's horny for Paul Newman, and he's very handsome. 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:55.600 Oh my gosh. It's kind of the only thing I'm 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:59.680 going to be able to contribute to this episode. My 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:01.120 third for Paul Newman. 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:06.760 Yeah, unbelievable, focused on men that night, having discourse. 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:11.560 I'm just gonna be like Paul Newman, oh woo ga. 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:15.600 I don't like his character, but I very much enjoy 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:17.120 looking at his face. 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:23.520 Well, I guess, let's let's get into it. I guess, dad, Uh, well, actually, 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:24.880 let's get ours out of the way kill it. What's 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:26.280 your history with the movie slap Shot? 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:30.080 I only know about this movie because of the various 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:33.760 times Jamie, you've said, my dad wants to come on 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:37.080 the podcast and cover slap Shot, and okay, that is 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:41.320 the reason I know this movie exists, Jamie, what's yours? 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:43.760 I know this movie exists because my dad has told 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:48.080 me about it. But I also have we've had Hansen 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:52.039 brother glasses at the house for I remember where we 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:54.320 have like I think they're on the table next to you, Dad, 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:58.440 but they're like the Hanson brother like taped glasses. It's 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:01.039 it is like, that's the only part of this movie 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:02.760 that I really knew about. I had not watched it 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:06.560 until the other day to prepare for this episode, because 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:11.200 you know, I criminally have never been very into hockey, 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:14.240 and so it was not a movie that really appealed 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:17.440 to me. But I knew the Hanson brothers because they 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:23.280 are so ingratiated into hockey iconography that we have like 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:25.360 glasses that were given out at a game with the 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:28.320 tape in the middle and the hands and Brothers specifically 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:33.000 are very iconic in hockey culture. I think this movie 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:35.600 is too, but like more, I think the Handsome Brothers 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:37.760 are kind of the most enduring. Would is that right? 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:42.040 Would you say? Absolutely? I mean it's you know, you 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:44.320 brought us some other hockey movies last night. There aren't 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:46.120 a lot of them. Yeah, you know, there are a 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:49.440 lot of baseball and football and basketball movies. Hockey. I 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:55.000 think hockey fans of a certain age says it's slap shot, 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:57.720 and then you know, maybe another generation would be the 0:07:57.800 --> 0:07:58.680 Mighty Ducks, and. 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:01.320 You know, I think we'd say more so than Mighty Ducks, 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:04.120 and then current current generation. I don't know if they 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:05.000 have a hockey movie. 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:10.440 I could tell you of a hockey movie, but the 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:12.360 good It's goon Yes. 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:15.120 Oh, I have heard of this one, Sean William Scott. 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:15.800 Isn't it? 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:20.040 If I'm not mistaken, I don't know actors that well, 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:23.000 but I think it is. I actually I know the 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:26.840 Gentleman that that film was based on. Okay, it's a 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:30.320 true story about a guy who and and the and 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:33.319 the movie does not really tell the story of the 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:37.559 actual person, but classic that was okay, he knew he 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:39.400 knew that was gonna happen, and he was. He was 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:40.120 alright with it. 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:42.560 You know, I hope they paid him well for the book. 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:43.959 Rights that might have happened. 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:46.960 But yeah, Slapshot has not been a huge part of 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:51.840 my life. But hockey certainly has grew up around hockey culture, 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:58.959 hockey ideas, hockey labor. Yeah, I have I like. I 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:02.160 like hockey, I think as much as someone who doesn't 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:03.680 follow it can. 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:06.880 I mean, missus Zamboni. 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:11.320 I have a Zamboni tattoo, and I didn't notice until 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:13.560 the end of the first movie the movie Slap Shot 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:17.800 zero Zamboni's Zamboni visibility at an all time low. 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:21.800 My favorite ice sports movie, as you know, is Ititania. 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:25.000 I love Itania. Not a single Zamboni in that one either, 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:25.800 What the hell? 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:29.240 I know, it's pretty and you know it's interesting to 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:30.920 me that, you know, when I sat down to watch 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:33.160 it again the other night, like and watch it in 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:37.120 a different way, I didn't realize it was it's a 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:38.400 two hour movie. 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:42.760 Yes it sure, it feels pretty long, so so you know, 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:46.479 there was plenty of time in there for you know, Zamboni, 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:51.680 tomfoolery and yet rueling Zamboni's. 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:53.480 Well even just a you know, I mean, I don't 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:54.599 know if we I don't know if this is the 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:57.480 part where we even bring in little things about the film, 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:01.240 but you know, little things, little things that the you know, 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:04.520 the team does to really really continue to whip people 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:07.679 in a frenzy, right like you know, parking an ambulance 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:10.960 outside of a game, you know, before it starts, you 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:13.320 couldn't have had somebody dress up crazy and just like 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:14.880 you know, drive the zamboni. 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:19.520 Naked person driving a Zamboni, Well, it's a perfect it's 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:21.360 a perfect runch comedy idea. 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:24.400 Okay, never mind, but you know, an oversight. I agree, 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:25.280 Jane good point. 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:28.839 Yeah, I felt strongly about that. I feel like Zamboni's 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:30.959 are rarely included, to the point where I wonder if 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:34.040 the company simply objects to it because it just seems 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:36.960 like such an easy win. But they're a very kind 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:40.679 of flatigious Italian family, the Zamboni family, so I've heard 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:45.679 when I've tried to contact them. Sure, So I like hockey. 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:48.960 I'd never seen slapshot all the way through, and I 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:51.400 watched it twice to repair, once with my dad, once 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:56.320 without and I have I mean it's so weird because 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:58.960 I feel like the reason that I didn't like this 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:02.400 movie as much as I was hoping to just has 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:05.040 mostly to do with the fact that I historically don't 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:08.080 love like super raunchy comedies, like they just have never 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:12.080 really appealed to me. But the more that I learned 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:14.640 about the production of this movie, there's a lot of 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:17.120 stuff to talk about. Certainly, a lot of it doesn't 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:19.800 age well. We were getting dinner with my aunt's last 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:23.880 night and my Annie Kate, my dad's sister. We've all 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:27.440 been hockey pilled over the years, and she's like, oh, yeah, 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:29.839 I've seen Slap Shot. It's kind of hard to watch 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:32.280 now because it's long and a lot of it ages 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:34.559 really badly. And I was like, all right, so we're 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:37.120 all in the same page here. But it is interesting. 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:38.920 We don't cover a lot of movies from the seventies, 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:42.360 and I think for a movie that a lot of 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:46.800 it ages not well, there were more women in the 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:49.480 story than I was expecting. I think more women than 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:53.280 your average sports movie in general, I would agree, so 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:57.360 lots to talk about. Yeah, Dad, what's your history with 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:00.120 the movie Slap Shot? Do you remember when you first saw. 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:02.760 Well that it actually came out the year I graduated 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:06.480 high school, nice nineteen seventy seven, which is when I 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:12.400 was wrapping up my my super average career as a player. 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:16.560 Okay, give us the rundown. What position did you play? Generally? 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:21.720 I was a defense defenseman. One goal career statistics one goal, 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:29.559 one assist, multiple penalty minutes. Knee injuries, yes, one knee surgery, 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:34.440 one broken nose. Went from there to I coached youth 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:36.480 hockey with a buddy of mine for a couple of years. 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:37.080 That was fun. 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:37.640 Nice. 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:41.360 When I was in college, I started officiating games as 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.720 a way to make a few bucks, and then that 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:47.640 all dried up and I went into the the you know, 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:50.960 there was no future in any of that for me, 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:54.839 but I still just kind of couldn't quit the game 0:12:56.000 --> 0:13:00.200 and love newspapers, loved the sports section, sports guy in 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:02.360 there I am, and like the you know, kind of 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:05.600 the teeth of the late seventies or when there's a 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:08.040 lot of people going into journalism because of like all 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:10.800 the president's men, and you know, everybody wants to be 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:11.520 a journalist. 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:16.040 Interesting movies are so influential that didn't. 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:18.120 Really feel like there was an uptick after all the presidents, 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:19.080 and that makes sense to me. 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:22.640 Oh yeah, definitely, because a person like me, who would 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:23.920 show up and say, yeah, I want to be a 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:27.320 sports writer, was like, what that doesn't count? What's wrong 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:31.280 with you? Yeah? So that's how that's kind of where 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:33.960 it comes from. And the interesting little side story is 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:36.480 the reason that I even played in the first place 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:39.040 was that when she was young, before she got married, 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:42.240 my mom was a huge hockey fan. She loved the Bruins. 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:45.840 I think she really liked the fights a lot. But 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:48.920 you know, she got married, she had three kids in 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:53.280 four years, and at around that time, the Bruins in Boston, 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:55.800 who had been terrible for a while, all of a 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:58.040 sudden they got very good. They had a great team 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:00.040 and a lot of personality, a lot of fun, and 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:03.960 she couldn't contain herself. She just she signed me up, 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:05.560 even though I told her I didn't want to play 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:09.120 so and you know, by the end of my first 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:10.960 season playing it was kind of all I wanted to do. 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:11.720 Nice. 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.640 So there's my is that dot Now. I don't think 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:18.600 my mom watched Slapshot with me, but but you know, 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:23.320 myself obviously and my my hockey friends. I mean you know, 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:27.360 certain aspects of that movie just from having played on 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:29.760 a team and everything like that just kind of, you know, 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:30.600 cracked us up. 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:35.440 And then just just for listener context, how long did 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:40.520 you work in sports journalism covering. 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:44.920 Hockey, specifically covering hockey. I would say I started like 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:48.960 in nineteen eighty nine. Halfway through that season, I became 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:52.640 like the full time you know, Bruins beat writer at 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:58.640 my paper. And I held that job through the twenty 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:03.520 nineteen twenty season, the last the bubble season, the pandemic season. 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:06.200 So it was a good It was like thirty something 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:10.680 years and I and also, you know, as my newspaper changed, 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:13.200 the industry changed, and I had to you know, I 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:16.360 always said the Bruins, but I found lots and lots 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:18.840 of other hockey stories to do. You know, here in 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:22.160 New England and the Boston area is so lots of 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:26.800 college stories, lots of stories about minor league players, you know, 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:31.120 draft picks we had, you know, coaches. And one of 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:35.840 the more interesting things was over my time was the 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:40.760 growth of like the women's hockey game, which I'm not 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:43.480 even sure it really existed when I started. 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:47.440 You know, I just realized I know nothing about it, 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:51.080 nor did I even realize there was a women's hockey league. 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:54.080 It's cool. I mean that that, you know, obviously, you 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:55.760 know a million times worry about it than me. But 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:59.560 when when I went to Toronto a couple of months 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:03.160 ago to do a show with your rock about I 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:05.240 went to the Hockey Hall of Fame, and it's like 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:08.840 this big, cool, sprawling museum that has exhibits on women's 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:12.000 hockey and on non white hockey leagues, and just like 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:15.320 all all of this cool. I don't know, you know, 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:20.840 it is definitely a predominantly white male sport, as our 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:25.760 most North American sports, but women's women's hockey leagues are 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:27.880 really really interesting, and I feel like there is I'm 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:31.440 kind of surprised that there isn't a movie about maybe. 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:33.280 I mean, listeners feel free to let us know if 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:34.760 there is one and we just don't know about it. 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:37.920 But I don't think I've ever seen like movie or 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:42.280 show explicitly about women's hockey, which feels weird. I feel 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:46.360 like there's movies about at least one movie about women's 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:48.040 sports in most major sports. 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:51.720 Yeah, I mean, but it was, I mean, it's around here, 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:53.880 and I guess, you know, in other places where hockey 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:57.440 is a thing. You know, the youth in high school 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:00.920 and college level. You know, women's hockey is a thing. 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:03.880 You know almost every almost everybody has a team now 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:07.119 in college. And the interesting thing to me was it 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:11.119 has struggled to really get off the ground and stay established. 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:14.119 But I will say, for like the last five or 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:18.800 six years has been a women's professional hockey league. You know, 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:22.040 where women you know, it's professional, they got paid to play. 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:26.639 As the twenty nineteen twenty twenty season was winding down 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:31.080 before everything shut down because of COVID, I always I 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:35.520 think about, how interesting is that the last athlete that 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:39.560 I interviewed face to face one on one was a 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:43.000 women's professional hockey player. Cool, which I thought was you know, 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:44.640 I didn't know it was going to be the last one. 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:46.280 I thought I would be going to work the next day. 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:48.000 But or you would have talked to a man. 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:50.960 No, I was there specifically to do that. 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:57.280 Okay, all right, you're killing it, everything's going great. No, No, 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:01.119 that's that's really I am obviously a fan of my dad, 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.680 but I think it's I think I do think it's 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:08.000 cool that you've covered so many local stories that no 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:11.880 one that that are not ordinarily covered especially with I mean, 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:14.399 like I mean, Caitlin, what you just said is kind 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:16.879 of proof of that. It's just like women's Like women's 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:20.000 hockey is absolutely a thing, but it's not covered in 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:22.600 any sort of broad way, right. 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:25.600 Like I've never seen a women's talkie game on TV. 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:29.280 Not that I'm like actively seeking out sports games. 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:32.119 You you would more likely find it during like the Olympics. 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:37.520 It's a it's a yeah. And an issue is that 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:40.800 the United States is great at it, Canada is great 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:44.639 at it, but there's you know, they need more international competition. 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:50.640 It is you know, it's not like there's generations of Swedish, Norwegian, 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:52.400 you know, European players. 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:54.919 I was going to say, like Sweden, what are you doing? Hello? 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:58.400 I know, right, But I mean it'll come. It will come. 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:01.560 It will when I write my awesome women's hockey movie. 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:06.520 So let's take a quick break and then we will 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:08.879 come back for the recap. 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:11.640 First periods over, you could say. 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:20.960 And we're back and now it's the second period. How 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:23.120 many are there periods? Okay? There three? 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:25.480 So this kind of works perfect. Wow. 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:29.240 Yeah, So the thing that I thought was halftime, it's 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:32.040 probably not actually halftime there's like two breaks. 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:35.000 Yeah, there's the middle. Yeah, there's not really any like 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:39.480 manner of halftime show for hockey. There's like, uh, well 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:42.960 to guess my ms. The Zamboni's are kind of how 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:45.120 you know, like, yeah, they come out twice and they 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:48.600 resurface the ice because that's their kind of one purpose. 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:53.959 And and sometimes uh, you know, kids and also local 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:59.359 celebs will come out on the zamboni and sometimes it's 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:03.320 me Staple Center in January twenty twenty, it was me 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:06.000 one time. I think we should I think we should 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:09.280 definitely post a picture of it to our Instagram. Actually absolutely, 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:13.880 I think it's pretty importantly do. But there's well there's 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:19.760 also I feel like there's because there's no cheerleading element 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:23.960 to hockey because it's on ice. But they have like 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:27.760 what do they call like it's a group of it's 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:31.280 now a gender inclusive group, but it's like a they 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:34.640 kind of assist the zamboni's. It's not really as best 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:38.960 of as cheerleading or dancing. It's really just like excited sweeping. 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:42.480 And there are there are some teams that will employ 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:46.080 people to you know, stand in the stairways and everything 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:46.600 and cheer. 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:49.760 Okay, I know that job. It seems like a fun job. 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:52.560 I wonder if I feel like traditionally those jobs are 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:54.879 really low paid. I wonder what the deal is in hockey. 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:57.199 But I was like, you know, I would sweep, I 0:20:57.200 --> 0:20:58.639 would sweep in shorts. Why not? 0:20:59.119 --> 0:20:59.959 Yeah, let's do it. 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:04.000 Anyways, let's what happens in the movie slap Shot let us. 0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:08.400 I would be delighted to tell you. Okay, we meet 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:14.159 a minor league, right, minor league hockey team called the 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:19.720 Chiefs from the fictional town of Charlestown, Pennsylvania, not to 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:24.800 be confused with Charlestown, Massachusetts, which is where the movie 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:26.840 The Town famously takes place. 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:29.080 That is kind of the famous town. Wow. 0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:35.720 Okay, so the most seasoned player and also the coach. 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:38.719 I did not know that the coach of a hockey 0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:41.359 team was also a player. Fascinating to me. 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:43.240 Can that happen in minor leagues? 0:21:43.359 --> 0:21:43.520 Yeah? 0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:44.000 Is that a thing? 0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:46.840 Yeah? It has been player coaches. The lower you go, 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:48.960 you never know what you're going to see. 0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:56.399 So the coach slash a player is Reggie Dunlop played 0:21:56.440 --> 0:21:59.719 by Paul Newman Albahabba. And then we meet some other 0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:06.320 players like Ned Bryden. There's a goalie named Denny who 0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:11.120 is French and everyone makes fun of him for English 0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:12.880 not being his first language. 0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:16.480 I really like his opening monologue that ends like with 0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:21.960 him just poetically describing the penalty box and then you 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:25.240 get free. I was like, whoa, Yes, you feel shame 0:22:25.359 --> 0:22:27.080 and then you get free, and you're like. 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:32.720 Whoa, Denny. We also meet Joe McGrath, who is the 0:22:32.760 --> 0:22:38.040 team's manager because he's not the coach, so he's the manager. 0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:41.240 Is that right, Mike, Yeah, general managers what you'd call, okay. 0:22:41.800 --> 0:22:46.280 Got it. He has the team do fashion shows to 0:22:46.720 --> 0:22:50.120 promote the games because people aren't coming out as much 0:22:50.240 --> 0:22:53.000 to the games anymore because the Chiefs kind of suck 0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:57.440 and they've been losing a lot. Also, a local mill 0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:01.200 is going to be closing soon in town and it's 0:23:01.359 --> 0:23:05.240 going to potentially mean that Charlestown will sort of dry 0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:08.320 up and then the team might have to fold, so 0:23:08.400 --> 0:23:13.800 that's looming over everybody. We also meet the Hansen brothers. 0:23:14.440 --> 0:23:19.320 They have just been signed over to the Chiefs. They're 0:23:19.440 --> 0:23:24.040 characterized as being a bunch of dipshits who bring their 0:23:24.080 --> 0:23:27.000 toys with them even though they're adults. 0:23:27.240 --> 0:23:29.679 They're yeah, they're young adults. I don't know. It's like 0:23:29.720 --> 0:23:33.080 it didn't shock me that, like when they're like eighteen, 0:23:33.160 --> 0:23:34.280 twenty and twenty. 0:23:34.000 --> 0:23:35.679 One something like that, and then. 0:23:35.520 --> 0:23:38.400 You're just like, yeah, I guess they would bring. 0:23:38.600 --> 0:23:39.680 Their race cars. 0:23:40.200 --> 0:23:41.760 I don't know. I was about to say they're not 0:23:41.840 --> 0:23:43.919 hurting anybody, but that's actually kind of their whole fanger. 0:23:44.119 --> 0:23:47.439 But they do kind of they are super violent on 0:23:47.480 --> 0:23:49.760 the ice, and then they would later go on to 0:23:50.119 --> 0:23:52.919 form a boy band and sing bop. 0:23:53.280 --> 0:23:53.760 I know. 0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:58.040 It's so confusing, Like I got that is that's a 0:23:58.080 --> 0:24:01.080 good generation gap. It's like, who are the hands and 0:24:01.160 --> 0:24:04.680 brothers to you? Right, because I'm going to mbop every time. 0:24:04.880 --> 0:24:07.720 I didn't know that boomers had their own handsome brothers. 0:24:07.840 --> 0:24:12.679 It's true. Okay. So we also meet a few of 0:24:12.720 --> 0:24:19.080 the players' wives. They're his wives, such as Bryden's wife Lily. 0:24:19.960 --> 0:24:23.439 She hates this town. She seems to just kind of 0:24:23.520 --> 0:24:28.440 generally hate her life and possibly her husband. We also 0:24:28.480 --> 0:24:34.119 meet Francine, who is Reggie's ex wife who he is 0:24:34.160 --> 0:24:35.119 trying to win. 0:24:35.119 --> 0:24:38.679 Back to know of it my hero, my favorite character, 0:24:38.760 --> 0:24:40.439 Francine Rocks. 0:24:41.600 --> 0:24:45.359 So the team they wonder who owns the team because 0:24:45.400 --> 0:24:48.639 they don't know, and Reggie is like, I don't know, 0:24:48.680 --> 0:24:54.080 it's just a corporation. And then they're general manager. That 0:24:54.119 --> 0:24:58.280 guy Joe reveals that this is the Chief's last season, 0:24:59.000 --> 0:25:01.640 and the players are worried that they won't be signed 0:25:01.720 --> 0:25:04.399 to another team. Some of them feel like they're getting 0:25:04.440 --> 0:25:08.919 too old to like be a valuable asset to another team. 0:25:09.760 --> 0:25:14.240 Reggie thinks that they might get sold and get transferred 0:25:14.280 --> 0:25:18.080 to a new city. He's thinking somewhere in Florida. 0:25:18.200 --> 0:25:23.800 Reggie is such a mess. It is no secret to 0:25:23.840 --> 0:25:26.480 anyone on this call. And I don't care for the 0:25:26.560 --> 0:25:29.960 character of Reggie. Not a fan of his. I think 0:25:29.960 --> 0:25:33.000 it's so like we'll talk about him more obviously later 0:25:33.000 --> 0:25:36.560 in the episode, but I really like especially the second 0:25:36.560 --> 0:25:39.000 time when I was watching it, it was because he's 0:25:39.080 --> 0:25:42.840 such a piece of shit to everyone, and it's it's 0:25:42.880 --> 0:25:45.960 really interesting to me that like his only redeeming moments 0:25:46.320 --> 0:25:51.480 happen privately, Like he's never publicly nice to anybody privately 0:25:51.640 --> 0:25:54.440 will he will say nice things about people behind their back, 0:25:54.680 --> 0:25:57.240 never to their face, And it just like it made me, 0:25:57.600 --> 0:26:00.960 I don't know, it was an interesting character. I mean, 0:26:01.160 --> 0:26:03.919 it's tricky because it's like, I don't think the movie 0:26:03.960 --> 0:26:07.360 is fully I don't know. I mean I I think 0:26:07.400 --> 0:26:10.160 he's like he's a piece of shit and also kind 0:26:10.200 --> 0:26:12.159 of tragic to me in a way because he just 0:26:12.160 --> 0:26:16.600 seems like someone who needs a friend so badly, but 0:26:16.800 --> 0:26:20.600 like can't stop getting in his own way enough to 0:26:20.720 --> 0:26:24.080 ever like have a friend. Like there's so many characters 0:26:24.080 --> 0:26:27.120 in this movie that he almost forges a friendship with 0:26:27.400 --> 0:26:29.720 but then turns on them or is a piece of 0:26:29.720 --> 0:26:32.400 shit to them, or like feels insecure for a second 0:26:32.440 --> 0:26:34.359 and says something cruel to them, and you're just like 0:26:34.400 --> 0:26:39.080 this person is so like it's it's a mess. He's 0:26:39.119 --> 0:26:41.920 an asshole. But it's also like it's sad, Like it's 0:26:41.920 --> 0:26:44.000 like this guy just needs to get out of his 0:26:44.040 --> 0:26:46.760 own way and make a make a friend, but but 0:26:47.080 --> 0:26:51.320 but he can't do it, and it's it's very frustrating 0:26:51.440 --> 0:26:56.280 to watch him sabotage himself over and over truly. 0:26:57.160 --> 0:27:01.600 Yeah, So he's insecure about the future, sure of the team, 0:27:02.119 --> 0:27:06.600 and he goes to this sports writer Dickie Done aka 0:27:06.880 --> 0:27:09.200 basically Mike loftis, Yeah. 0:27:09.119 --> 0:27:12.080 Dad, did you feel represented? Dicky Done? 0:27:12.720 --> 0:27:14.679 I do like that he's often well just trying to 0:27:14.680 --> 0:27:15.840 catch the spirit of the thing. 0:27:15.920 --> 0:27:18.080 You know, he says this a lot. 0:27:18.200 --> 0:27:22.720 Yes, yes, I mean you know whatever Reggie Dunlop plays him. 0:27:22.960 --> 0:27:26.080 You know obviously, you know kind of plants this story 0:27:26.119 --> 0:27:29.960 about here we're getting sold when you know that never 0:27:30.119 --> 0:27:34.080 was going to happen. Right, So Dickie's Dickie's failure to 0:27:34.240 --> 0:27:35.600 like maybe follow up on that. 0:27:37.200 --> 0:27:40.000 He's not doing very good journalism, yes, because he's doing 0:27:40.000 --> 0:27:41.160 no research. 0:27:41.080 --> 0:27:46.159 But you know he's probably selling some papers, and you know, 0:27:46.280 --> 0:27:49.000 he just it's funny how he just sort of fell 0:27:49.080 --> 0:27:54.359 right into right, right into Reggis. Reggis trapped there. 0:27:54.720 --> 0:27:58.760 Well, he is charming, he is like charismatics. So people are. 0:27:58.600 --> 0:28:01.000 Like, he is hot, so you should probably. 0:28:00.960 --> 0:28:03.320 Be so hot. So everyone listens to him. 0:28:03.560 --> 0:28:05.520 And that's a great line too where there you know, Paul, 0:28:05.880 --> 0:28:08.640 you know Reggie is reading the story. Hey, Dickie Dunn 0:28:08.640 --> 0:28:10.720 wrote it. You know it's true, right. 0:28:12.520 --> 0:28:18.680 Also, Uh, it's it's stereotypes. Uh, sports writers as bad parents. 0:28:20.440 --> 0:28:23.160 His daughter run out and her brother was bullying her, 0:28:23.240 --> 0:28:26.119 and he's like, all right, resolve it among yourselves. Talking 0:28:26.160 --> 0:28:27.119 to Paul Newman. 0:28:26.880 --> 0:28:30.640 I'm doing business, right, now I'm mister business, bad representation. 0:28:31.520 --> 0:28:32.959 I think there might have been a drink or two 0:28:33.040 --> 0:28:33.440 there too. 0:28:33.840 --> 0:28:36.200 Oh yeah, yeah, he said, he said, go away kids, 0:28:36.200 --> 0:28:38.320 and then he starts drinking again. There's a lot of 0:28:38.400 --> 0:28:42.720 drinking in this movie, so much drinking. Yeah, Dad, you'll 0:28:42.800 --> 0:28:45.800 have to explain the seventies. 0:28:49.680 --> 0:28:53.240 So Dickie Dunn is like, that's ridiculous. No one's gonna 0:28:53.240 --> 0:28:56.640 buy a fifth place team, and Reggie is like, well 0:28:56.720 --> 0:29:02.200 that's about to change. Mean, while Reggie is having an 0:29:02.240 --> 0:29:08.160 affair with an opponent's wife, his wife Suzanne, and she 0:29:08.320 --> 0:29:12.560 tells Reggie that she's been sleeping with other women recently, 0:29:13.320 --> 0:29:18.800 which Reggie uses when he plays his opponent the following week. 0:29:18.920 --> 0:29:25.480 This guy named Hanrahan Han Rahn. That will we'll talk 0:29:25.480 --> 0:29:26.080 about that. 0:29:26.080 --> 0:29:29.200 That'll be a whole thing, because that's it's like, that's 0:29:29.200 --> 0:29:32.560 something that this movie is so constantly infuriating, mostly because 0:29:32.600 --> 0:29:36.680 of regg Yeah, where you're like, oh wow, I would 0:29:36.680 --> 0:29:38.640 guess that that wouldn't be something that would be like 0:29:38.720 --> 0:29:41.400 commonly discussed in a popular movie in the seventies, and 0:29:41.400 --> 0:29:44.600 then in the next scene you're like, well, what was 0:29:44.640 --> 0:29:46.520 the point, Like, if you're just going to do that. 0:29:46.440 --> 0:29:51.120 What was the point exactly? Yeah. So Hanrahan is the 0:29:51.120 --> 0:29:54.840 goalie for the other team, and Reggie is taunting him 0:29:55.040 --> 0:29:58.040 and saying, you know your wife is a lesbian. But 0:29:58.120 --> 0:30:02.160 he's using a lot of slurs and it makes hanrah 0:30:02.240 --> 0:30:07.000 Han so mad and distracted that he gets scored on 0:30:07.240 --> 0:30:11.200 a bunch and the Chiefs win, also partly because they 0:30:11.200 --> 0:30:14.200 get very violent and start beating the shit out of 0:30:14.400 --> 0:30:15.400 the other team. 0:30:15.400 --> 0:30:18.960 Which is sort of like becoming their new Emma Owing card. 0:30:19.320 --> 0:30:24.400 Yeah, yeah, yes. Meanwhile, we have a scene with Lily. 0:30:24.560 --> 0:30:27.560 She's still having a really hard time. It seems like 0:30:27.680 --> 0:30:31.880 Brandon is cheating on her, and then Reggie tries to 0:30:32.000 --> 0:30:35.440 comfort her, but in a very sleazy way where he's like, 0:30:35.720 --> 0:30:38.000 come over, I'll give you a foot rub. 0:30:38.240 --> 0:30:43.080 He's so frustrating. I'm just like, she that's whatever I mean. 0:30:43.120 --> 0:30:46.160 I guess the choice is consistent with Reggie's character, but 0:30:46.200 --> 0:30:49.720 I'm just like, ah, these two characters, they both need 0:30:49.760 --> 0:30:52.000 a friend. Why can't they be friends to each other? 0:30:52.080 --> 0:30:54.800 But it's because Reggie can't because he's a creep. Yeah, 0:30:54.800 --> 0:30:56.120 because he can't not be a creep. 0:30:56.280 --> 0:30:58.400 But he's not even the most creepy guy on the 0:30:58.440 --> 0:31:01.040 team because that's a guy named Morris's. 0:31:01.240 --> 0:31:03.520 Oh he's a disaster. Yeah. 0:31:03.560 --> 0:31:08.800 Anyway, so the team sees this story in the paper 0:31:08.920 --> 0:31:12.440 that Dicky Dunn had printed about how the Chiefs are 0:31:12.480 --> 0:31:16.000 going to get bought and transferred to Florida, which they're 0:31:16.120 --> 0:31:21.680 very excited about. And so, with the team morale higher 0:31:21.720 --> 0:31:25.800 than ever, the Chiefs start winning a bunch, although again 0:31:25.800 --> 0:31:30.200 they're playing way rougher than normal. There's lots of punching 0:31:30.360 --> 0:31:34.959 and bloody faces and stuff. Although Brayden is opposed to 0:31:35.120 --> 0:31:38.920 playing dirty, he thinks it's cheap and not the right 0:31:38.960 --> 0:31:40.720 way to win, which. 0:31:40.640 --> 0:31:43.280 He'll sort of like built into He's like, I went 0:31:43.360 --> 0:31:47.360 to college. I'm not none of this nonsense. I went 0:31:47.440 --> 0:31:48.280 to college. 0:31:48.400 --> 0:31:51.120 Yeah, I'm still a piece of shit who's cheating on 0:31:51.240 --> 0:31:53.440 my wife, but I have morals. 0:31:53.520 --> 0:31:56.880 But I went to college. 0:31:57.120 --> 0:32:00.720 But Reggie is very pro all of this hockey violence, 0:32:00.840 --> 0:32:03.440 and he starts putting the Hansen brothers in the game, 0:32:03.920 --> 0:32:08.280 whose entire strategy is just to punch the ship out 0:32:08.320 --> 0:32:09.520 of their opponents. 0:32:09.880 --> 0:32:11.680 I kind of love the hands, Like, it's kind of 0:32:11.680 --> 0:32:13.760 hard not to love the Hansen brothers. 0:32:13.920 --> 0:32:16.880 They're so goofy, they're extremely goofy. 0:32:17.160 --> 0:32:21.600 Wait, my dad's got some some a real real sleigh 0:32:21.840 --> 0:32:26.000 of a of a context corner for them. But oh okay, 0:32:26.160 --> 0:32:28.560 I love I love the hands and brothers. They're fun. 0:32:30.840 --> 0:32:38.360 I yeah, there's awesome anyway. So, uh, the team continues 0:32:38.400 --> 0:32:42.920 to speculate who the owner is. Meanwhile, this thing is 0:32:42.920 --> 0:32:47.520 happening where Reggie just like keeps lying about the team 0:32:47.560 --> 0:32:51.880 getting bought and sold to keep the morale up. And 0:32:52.240 --> 0:32:56.160 also maybe he's just like deluding himself because he knows 0:32:56.200 --> 0:32:59.320 that he's about to reach a point where he's probably 0:32:59.320 --> 0:33:02.600 gonna have to tire and he's so insecure and he 0:33:02.640 --> 0:33:04.040 can't deal with it. 0:33:04.040 --> 0:33:08.720 It's so I read this incredible essay about how Reggie 0:33:09.440 --> 0:33:14.720 is a metaphor for the men of Pittsburgh in the seventies. Wow, 0:33:14.760 --> 0:33:17.840 and I'm just like, I'm excited to talk about it later. 0:33:18.000 --> 0:33:24.960 Okay, Okay. So then Reggie sees Francene with another guy 0:33:25.280 --> 0:33:29.320 and he's kind of like following her around and calling 0:33:29.320 --> 0:33:32.320 different places that he knows that she frequents to try 0:33:32.360 --> 0:33:36.840 to like see who she's been there with. Very stalker behavior. 0:33:37.080 --> 0:33:38.640 Yeah he's doing I mean he does the same thing 0:33:38.680 --> 0:33:40.960 to Lily. He like jumps in her car at one point, 0:33:41.080 --> 0:33:44.600 like he's just he has no no issue really inserting 0:33:44.680 --> 0:33:45.480 being around. 0:33:45.720 --> 0:33:49.760 Yeah yeah, And he bumps into her at some point, 0:33:49.800 --> 0:33:53.160 and franccene tells Reggie that she's moving to Long Island, 0:33:54.080 --> 0:33:58.880 which I'm like, yes, please get away from him. Then 0:33:59.160 --> 0:34:04.160 there's an upcoming game against Syracuse, so Reggie goes on 0:34:04.880 --> 0:34:08.000 the radio for an interview and he says that he's 0:34:08.160 --> 0:34:11.799 putting a bounty on I don't know if it's that 0:34:11.960 --> 0:34:14.120 team's coach or just kind of like one of their 0:34:14.160 --> 0:34:17.480 star players, this guy Tim McCracken. And he's like, I'm 0:34:17.480 --> 0:34:20.640 paying one hundred dollars of my own money for someone 0:34:20.719 --> 0:34:21.960 to kill him. 0:34:22.360 --> 0:34:26.240 It's such a love bounty. It's kind of fun, right. 0:34:27.680 --> 0:34:30.920 And then there's this player who has given himself the 0:34:31.040 --> 0:34:35.360 nickname Killer and he's like, I'll do it. I'll kill 0:34:35.520 --> 0:34:41.880 Tim McCracken. Anyway, Lily shows up at Reggie's place with 0:34:42.000 --> 0:34:45.800 her huge Saint Bernard dog. She seems to have left 0:34:46.160 --> 0:34:48.800 Bryden and she has a new lease online. 0:34:48.880 --> 0:34:49.959 He doesn't know it yet. 0:34:50.040 --> 0:34:55.040 He doesn't know it yet, let's see. Then Reggie takes 0:34:55.239 --> 0:34:59.319 Lily to Francine's hair salon and she gets a bit 0:34:59.320 --> 0:34:59.799 of a makeo. 0:35:00.680 --> 0:35:04.080 I have some I have complicated thoughts about that scene 0:35:04.080 --> 0:35:06.560 because I feel like that scene's heart is in the 0:35:06.640 --> 0:35:09.960 right place, but it's kind of broadly done. But I'm 0:35:09.960 --> 0:35:10.799 excited to talk about it. 0:35:10.840 --> 0:35:14.960 Yeah, yeah, Yeah. Then Reggie finally figures out who the 0:35:15.000 --> 0:35:18.440 owner of the Chiefs is and he goes to see 0:35:18.760 --> 0:35:25.680 him just kidding. It's a woman jeamed whit Anita McCambridge, 0:35:26.360 --> 0:35:28.520 and he wants to know how the sale of the 0:35:28.520 --> 0:35:31.720 team is going, but she tells him that she plans 0:35:31.760 --> 0:35:35.040 to fold the team and take a tax loss rather 0:35:35.080 --> 0:35:37.440 than sell it because she won't make enough of a 0:35:37.480 --> 0:35:39.040 profit if she sells the team. 0:35:39.440 --> 0:35:43.680 It's like every single decision, like every streamer is making 0:35:43.760 --> 0:35:47.440 right now, they're like, no, actually, we're deleting your entire 0:35:47.560 --> 0:35:50.960 life and career because it suits me today. 0:35:51.320 --> 0:35:51.759 Fuck you. 0:35:52.320 --> 0:35:58.840 Yikes. And so this news infuriates Reggie and he brutally 0:35:58.880 --> 0:36:01.920 insults her son and then storms out. 0:36:02.239 --> 0:36:05.759 Classic Reggie, He's like, well, I'm feeling a little insecure 0:36:05.760 --> 0:36:09.279 and angry. Let me insult someone who's not here in 0:36:09.360 --> 0:36:12.560 the cruelest way I can possibly think of, truly, kind 0:36:12.560 --> 0:36:13.120 of his whole thing. 0:36:13.320 --> 0:36:17.399 Then Reggie comes clean to his team. He admits that 0:36:17.440 --> 0:36:21.480 there's no deal for them to be bought and moved 0:36:21.560 --> 0:36:25.920 to Florida. That Ned was right all along. They shouldn't 0:36:25.920 --> 0:36:28.480 be resorting to all of this violence as a way 0:36:28.520 --> 0:36:31.680 to win games. And this is Reggie's last game and 0:36:31.760 --> 0:36:35.080 he's gonna play it straight and try to win that 0:36:35.320 --> 0:36:40.320 championship honestly and legitimately. But this is when they're playing 0:36:40.400 --> 0:36:44.239 Syracuse and that team is ready for a bloodbath. So 0:36:44.280 --> 0:36:49.400 the game starts and the Syracuse team are fighting, but 0:36:49.480 --> 0:36:53.120 the Chiefs aren't fighting back, and they're losing. And then 0:36:53.360 --> 0:36:58.640 it's not halftime, it's either after the first or second period. 0:37:00.040 --> 0:37:04.480 They're like in the locker room and their general manager 0:37:04.560 --> 0:37:07.960 Joe is like, hey, there's a bunch of NHL scouts 0:37:08.000 --> 0:37:10.839 in the crowd, so you have to put on a 0:37:10.880 --> 0:37:15.520 good show for them, and Reggie's like, okay, forget everything 0:37:15.560 --> 0:37:17.799 I said. We're gonna play dirty, and then we just 0:37:17.840 --> 0:37:24.360 like cut to everyone punching each other. Francine and Lily 0:37:24.440 --> 0:37:28.880 show up to the game, and Braiden sees his wife 0:37:29.600 --> 0:37:31.880 and he's like, wow. 0:37:31.760 --> 0:37:34.239 This part is where this is where like the whole 0:37:34.280 --> 0:37:36.959 Lily story falls apart from me where I'm like, what 0:37:37.880 --> 0:37:41.440 happened here? So confused about what happens with Lily's character. 0:37:41.840 --> 0:37:44.920 Yeah, I don't know sure, and I also don't know 0:37:45.000 --> 0:37:49.480 exactly what prompts this. But Braiden goes out on the 0:37:49.680 --> 0:37:55.200 ice while everyone well everyone's just punching each other and 0:37:55.239 --> 0:37:58.640 not playing hockey even a little bit, and Braiden starts 0:37:58.680 --> 0:38:02.200 doing a strip tease, and everyone in the crowd and 0:38:02.239 --> 0:38:07.040 all the players are like, te wow, And for. 0:38:07.040 --> 0:38:10.400 Some reason this solves all of the problems in his marriage. 0:38:10.680 --> 0:38:14.319 You're just like, it's very cinematic, but you're just like, 0:38:14.640 --> 0:38:17.680 it doesn't make sense, but it's a very movie behavior. 0:38:18.560 --> 0:38:22.640 Yeah, and he does the strip tease and it somehow 0:38:22.960 --> 0:38:26.360 wins the game. I don't know if the other team forfits. 0:38:26.400 --> 0:38:27.480 I don't know what happens. 0:38:28.480 --> 0:38:33.200 I could tell you. So as as Ned is doing 0:38:33.239 --> 0:38:35.759 his strip tease, one of the players, one of the 0:38:36.000 --> 0:38:40.040 it might be Tim McCracken, is furious and he's like, 0:38:40.200 --> 0:38:43.080 you know, during the middle of this bloodbath, he starts 0:38:43.120 --> 0:38:46.400 to yell at the official like that's disgusting. Make him stop, 0:38:47.040 --> 0:38:49.680 And the officials like, what do you mean, it's disgusting 0:38:49.719 --> 0:38:51.800 look at this, and they end up with an argument e. 0:38:51.880 --> 0:38:55.440 McCracken or the you know, the opponent hits the official. 0:38:55.680 --> 0:38:59.960 He which is, no matter how low the miners or whatever, 0:39:00.239 --> 0:39:04.200 you know, you can't hit an official. And he hit him, 0:39:04.200 --> 0:39:07.040 and the officials says that's it. The game's over. You forfeit. 0:39:07.280 --> 0:39:11.720 You know, got it? Okay, okay, nice, okay. It reminds 0:39:11.719 --> 0:39:14.480 me of an air bud when they're like, there's nothing 0:39:14.520 --> 0:39:17.360 in the rule book that says a dog can't play basketball. 0:39:17.640 --> 0:39:19.800 It's like, there's nothing in the rule book that says 0:39:19.800 --> 0:39:23.640 a player can't come out and strip to win the game. 0:39:23.880 --> 0:39:26.120 Right, you can maybe get a penalty for it. 0:39:26.200 --> 0:39:30.080 Play was stopped at the time, you know, it doesn't. 0:39:30.160 --> 0:39:33.640 It's true, so he's basically just doing it. It's like 0:39:33.719 --> 0:39:36.160 that that could have been the the ice sweepers, it 0:39:36.160 --> 0:39:38.920 could have been, could have been anything, and he happened 0:39:39.560 --> 0:39:43.200 to do that. I don't, yeah, I have so the 0:39:43.239 --> 0:39:45.759 way that this movie it's so bizarre. We were talking 0:39:45.800 --> 0:39:47.279 about it when we were watching it a couple of 0:39:47.360 --> 0:39:50.320 nights ago, where it's like this movie in the last 0:39:50.400 --> 0:39:52.440 half of it, like I'd be on board, and then 0:39:52.440 --> 0:39:54.080 it would lose me for ten minutes, and I'd be 0:39:54.080 --> 0:39:55.359 back for a couple of minutes, and then it would 0:39:55.440 --> 0:39:57.200 lose me for ten minutes, and then I kind of 0:39:57.320 --> 0:39:59.839 liked the ending, and it was like I didn't see 0:40:00.600 --> 0:40:03.560 I don't like, well, whatever, we're at the end, basically, yeah, 0:40:03.560 --> 0:40:07.200 but like it lost me during this whole game, because 0:40:07.200 --> 0:40:11.799 you're like, why does ned stripping on ice solve the 0:40:11.840 --> 0:40:18.040 issue of infidelity and them hating it each other? And 0:40:18.080 --> 0:40:21.120 then it seems like well whatever, Like I'm I didn't 0:40:21.360 --> 0:40:24.120 dislike the scene between Lily and Francine, even though it 0:40:24.160 --> 0:40:28.360 was like whatever channeled into the idea and to a makeover. 0:40:28.760 --> 0:40:31.040 I think you can make the argument that it was 0:40:31.080 --> 0:40:34.080 like she was getting a makeover to feel better about herself. 0:40:34.200 --> 0:40:37.760 It didn't seem like it was overtly for her husband 0:40:37.880 --> 0:40:40.359 or for anyone except for herself. 0:40:39.840 --> 0:40:42.400 Because she had already left him by that point. 0:40:42.520 --> 0:40:44.960 Yeah, it seemed like she was doing it to feel 0:40:45.000 --> 0:40:46.919 more confident about herself. And I don't have an issue 0:40:46.920 --> 0:40:49.960 with that, but it just seems like it's like implied 0:40:49.960 --> 0:40:55.040 that something happens between Lily and Francine off screen that 0:40:55.560 --> 0:40:57.040 leads because I'm like, I don't even know why they 0:40:57.040 --> 0:40:59.640 show up at that hockey game. It's confusing to me 0:40:59.680 --> 0:41:03.239 because it seems like Lily or Francines like getting really 0:41:03.360 --> 0:41:06.000 gassed up to like get out into the world and 0:41:06.080 --> 0:41:09.720 start her life. Like whether that's dating or moving or whatever, 0:41:09.760 --> 0:41:12.239 it is kind of unclear. But then it's like, the 0:41:12.280 --> 0:41:13.920 next time we see them, they're at the hockey game. 0:41:13.960 --> 0:41:15.600 You're like, when did you guys decide to go to 0:41:15.640 --> 0:41:18.040 the hockey game? Why? It seems like the opposite of 0:41:18.040 --> 0:41:18.960 what Lily was trying to do. 0:41:19.040 --> 0:41:21.200 Right, they should have gone out to dinner. 0:41:21.760 --> 0:41:24.640 They should have gone out to a singles bar. 0:41:25.000 --> 0:41:28.120 Right, and then they could have started a book club together. 0:41:28.680 --> 0:41:32.000 You know, I don't know anyway, So we cut to 0:41:33.080 --> 0:41:37.439 a parade. The team I think has disbanded, but the 0:41:37.480 --> 0:41:41.040 players seems like they're getting contracts to go play on 0:41:41.160 --> 0:41:45.200 other teams. Reggie is going to go play in Minneapolis. 0:41:45.920 --> 0:41:48.560 He tries to get Francine to come with him, but 0:41:48.680 --> 0:41:54.080 she's like pass. But Lily and Braden do get back 0:41:54.120 --> 0:41:58.280 together in an infuriating moment, and then. 0:41:58.120 --> 0:42:02.240 Everyone I've never been so it on different characters endings 0:42:02.239 --> 0:42:05.280 where it's like I'm thrilled for Francine and I'm completely 0:42:05.280 --> 0:42:06.280 confused by Lily. 0:42:06.520 --> 0:42:10.160 Yeah, but anyway, but everyone's celebrating at the parade, and 0:42:10.200 --> 0:42:15.280 that's how the movie ends. So let's take another break. 0:42:16.360 --> 0:42:19.960 Second period period is over. Is there a big Is 0:42:20.000 --> 0:42:23.319 there a big buzzer in hockey to like signify the 0:42:23.400 --> 0:42:24.080 end of a period? 0:42:24.160 --> 0:42:25.719 Well, I think it's a siren, you know. 0:42:25.840 --> 0:42:36.520 Oh okay, so a wuga will be right back. We're back, 0:42:36.560 --> 0:42:39.240 and it's time for the third period. 0:42:39.560 --> 0:42:42.120 And the third period can go on for a while. 0:42:42.360 --> 0:42:44.840 Mm hmm. There's no time limit. 0:42:45.239 --> 0:42:48.040 If things are tight, you know. Sometimes sometimes it just 0:42:48.239 --> 0:42:48.719 keeps going. 0:42:48.800 --> 0:42:50.160 Sometimes we go into overtime. 0:42:50.280 --> 0:42:51.920 Overtime, yes on the Bechdel cast. 0:42:52.160 --> 0:42:56.000 Yes, oh that's exactly Okay, I wonder that's that's when 0:42:56.040 --> 0:42:57.800 we do the our scoring. 0:42:57.960 --> 0:43:01.319 That's oh yeah, that's like the penalty shootout kind of thing. 0:43:01.600 --> 0:43:05.839 Yeah. So, Dad, I before we get into the full analysis, 0:43:05.920 --> 0:43:11.960 I'm curious, do you feel that the sport of hockey 0:43:12.200 --> 0:43:16.279 is like does this feel authentic to because you, I 0:43:16.280 --> 0:43:19.000 mean like we're reporting like on the road with teams 0:43:19.480 --> 0:43:23.360 and reporting from locker rooms for decades. Does this movie 0:43:23.400 --> 0:43:29.360 feel close for the era? Does it feel overblown and moviefied, like, 0:43:29.400 --> 0:43:33.360 how does it square with your experience in this arena? 0:43:33.760 --> 0:43:37.200 You know, hey, you know, it's a good question. I 0:43:37.200 --> 0:43:39.760 mean I think, you know, when I watched that movie, 0:43:40.440 --> 0:43:45.360 everything in it from the hockey standpoint is just an exaggeration. 0:43:45.880 --> 0:43:46.080 You know. 0:43:47.120 --> 0:43:50.399 It's like, you know, yes there is locker room talk, 0:43:51.360 --> 0:43:55.040 but some of the extent that these guys, you know, no, 0:43:55.120 --> 0:43:57.920 I don't think. I mean, I never heard the violence 0:43:58.000 --> 0:44:01.680 in games. You know. Yes, it's a very very physical game, 0:44:01.760 --> 0:44:05.040 and I would say back in that era that was 0:44:05.080 --> 0:44:07.319 more of a factor, that was more of a strategy 0:44:07.960 --> 0:44:12.520 than it is now. And also to the NHL, it's 0:44:12.520 --> 0:44:15.520 like any major sport, people follow him. There's like the 0:44:15.520 --> 0:44:19.560 top level and then there are different tiers in hockey. 0:44:19.640 --> 0:44:23.120 The lower that you go, you know, you're probably not 0:44:23.200 --> 0:44:25.200 going to make it, you know, you might you know, 0:44:25.280 --> 0:44:29.760 move up another level or two. So the crazier things, 0:44:29.840 --> 0:44:32.840 I guess, you know, would tend to happen, you know, 0:44:32.880 --> 0:44:37.439 in the lower minors, smaller towns, you know, smaller franchises, 0:44:37.520 --> 0:44:40.400 things like that. I mean, and that's you know, that's 0:44:40.600 --> 0:44:41.959 kind of where the movie came from. 0:44:42.000 --> 0:44:42.160 Now. 0:44:42.280 --> 0:44:44.719 Nancy Dowd's brother. 0:44:44.960 --> 0:44:46.800 Ned Nancy the writer. 0:44:47.600 --> 0:44:51.760 Yes, I'm sorry. Yeah, So her brother played college hockey 0:44:51.840 --> 0:44:55.080 in Maine, and then he played two years a low 0:44:55.160 --> 0:44:58.840 minor professional hockey league, and he would he you know, 0:44:58.880 --> 0:45:01.080 he would tell his sisters worries about the you know, 0:45:01.160 --> 0:45:04.920 the things that happened, and thus the movie. You know, 0:45:05.200 --> 0:45:07.560 so a lot of it. There's a lot of things 0:45:08.239 --> 0:45:11.200 that are based on things that actually did happen. And 0:45:11.239 --> 0:45:14.080 I think that, you know, for film purposes and everything, 0:45:14.719 --> 0:45:17.200 you know, it's it's amplified and exaggerated. 0:45:17.760 --> 0:45:20.720 That's something I mean, I guess that's like a place 0:45:20.760 --> 0:45:23.040 that I would be down to start, is just talking 0:45:23.040 --> 0:45:25.120 a little bit about the behind the scenes process of 0:45:25.160 --> 0:45:27.680 this movie, because I didn't I know that. I mean, 0:45:27.760 --> 0:45:29.920 the one fact I knew about this movie other than 0:45:30.120 --> 0:45:33.120 it's where the hands and brother's glasses comes from, is 0:45:33.280 --> 0:45:35.279 what my dad told me five thousand times, which is 0:45:35.280 --> 0:45:37.919 that a woman wrote the movie. It was the fact 0:45:38.000 --> 0:45:41.200 that I knew, but I didn't know I actually really liked. 0:45:41.360 --> 0:45:43.240 I don't know, it's like it I was like, oh, 0:45:43.360 --> 0:45:47.600 I kind of do stuff like that sometimes. Where Nancy down, Yeah, 0:45:47.640 --> 0:45:50.960 like she heard that her brother was involved in this 0:45:51.080 --> 0:45:53.440 what was the name of the team that the Chiefs 0:45:53.440 --> 0:45:54.040 are based. 0:45:53.840 --> 0:45:58.600 On, the Johnstown Jets, okay in Pennsylvania, So that was 0:45:58.640 --> 0:45:59.120 a team. 0:45:59.000 --> 0:46:03.000 Her brother was on. He called basically with the premise 0:46:03.080 --> 0:46:05.600 to slap shot that this you know team was not 0:46:05.600 --> 0:46:07.279 going to be around for much longer, and so she 0:46:07.960 --> 0:46:10.800 followed them around for a month, and she like shadowed 0:46:10.800 --> 0:46:15.520 them and did basically like Gonzo's style, following this minor 0:46:15.600 --> 0:46:18.200 league team around. And so a lot of what she 0:46:18.680 --> 0:46:22.120 saw went directly into the movie in the script, which 0:46:22.200 --> 0:46:24.359 I think you can argue works for and against it 0:46:24.400 --> 0:46:27.359 because it's like if she's presenting in this the late 0:46:27.400 --> 0:46:30.839 seventies that authentically a lot of it doesn't age well 0:46:30.880 --> 0:46:34.040 because it was, you know, almost fifty years ago, but 0:46:34.120 --> 0:46:37.400 it does seem like that was sort of her goal 0:46:37.920 --> 0:46:40.560 in writing it and what she was trying to present. 0:46:40.640 --> 0:46:43.400 And so I went back to the way that this 0:46:43.480 --> 0:46:46.520 movie was originally covered because it was like a hit. 0:46:46.600 --> 0:46:49.479 It was a box office success, people liked it, Paul 0:46:49.560 --> 0:46:51.960 Newman was in it, and it was also like I 0:46:52.000 --> 0:46:54.880 thought it was interesting that it was drawn attention to 0:46:54.960 --> 0:46:57.520 when the movie came out, that these were like, quote, 0:46:57.719 --> 0:46:59.440 I'm just trying to think if there's like a contemporary 0:46:59.480 --> 0:47:01.440 example of it where they were like quote unquote like 0:47:01.760 --> 0:47:07.960 respectable filmmakers making this raunchy comedy. Because the director of 0:47:08.000 --> 0:47:11.600 this movie, George roy Hill, like he directed Butch Cassidy, 0:47:11.640 --> 0:47:16.160 he'd done all of these like, you know, really prestige sensitive, thoughtful, 0:47:16.360 --> 0:47:20.080 prestigie movies, and then later in his career makes this 0:47:20.200 --> 0:47:24.200 super super raunchy comedy. And then you have Nancy Dowd 0:47:24.440 --> 0:47:30.680 who is from Framingham, Massachusetts, representing Massachusetts, but grew up 0:47:30.719 --> 0:47:34.799 you know, like a pretty like upper crusty Massachusetts life. 0:47:34.840 --> 0:47:37.880 She went to Smith College like she was like a 0:47:38.880 --> 0:47:41.680 no one and this was like her first success. She 0:47:41.719 --> 0:47:44.000 went on after this. Two years after this, she won 0:47:44.040 --> 0:47:48.239 an oscar for a movie called Coming Home about Did 0:47:48.239 --> 0:47:48.919 you see that? Dad? 0:47:49.280 --> 0:47:52.360 I did? Did you like it? 0:47:52.360 --> 0:47:52.640 It was? 0:47:52.680 --> 0:47:55.480 It was a little challenging to believe. It's very serious. 0:47:55.520 --> 0:47:56.800 It was like a it was kind of like a 0:47:56.880 --> 0:48:01.280 Vietnam War movie real and it's you know John Floyd 0:48:01.520 --> 0:48:04.440 so well it. 0:48:04.280 --> 0:48:07.799 Works against it. Yeah, it's no national treasure. But no, 0:48:07.880 --> 0:48:08.520 I mean it's. 0:48:08.480 --> 0:48:09.279 Like speaking. 0:48:10.520 --> 0:48:14.520 But yeah, because John Boyd is truly evil. Yeah, but 0:48:14.520 --> 0:48:18.640 but it felt like these prestigiee stars, serious writers and 0:48:19.080 --> 0:48:24.000 directors making this really raunchy, goofy comedy. But it was 0:48:24.120 --> 0:48:27.600 also like my dad. The news talked a lot about 0:48:27.600 --> 0:48:30.480 how like a woman wrote the movie in a different 0:48:30.560 --> 0:48:33.920 context at I'm not criticizing this, but I just like 0:48:34.120 --> 0:48:37.640 most of the coverage of Nancy Dawd at this time 0:48:37.840 --> 0:48:41.120 was like, it's the raunchiest comedy of the year and 0:48:41.200 --> 0:48:45.239 a Woa wa will woman wrote it, and like, which 0:48:45.280 --> 0:48:48.200 I think that we still see stuff like that, and 0:48:48.880 --> 0:48:52.239 it's still like the majority of Raanji comedies that come 0:48:52.280 --> 0:48:54.680 out are not written by I don't think that there's 0:48:54.719 --> 0:48:58.600 really parody. I mean, there's not parody in film in general, 0:48:58.640 --> 0:49:03.120 but I think, especially in this genre, it still feels 0:49:03.160 --> 0:49:06.360 super male driven. I feel like joy Ride is the 0:49:06.400 --> 0:49:11.239 only exception I can think of this year. But I 0:49:11.280 --> 0:49:13.560 read some of the coverage because I was like, well, 0:49:13.560 --> 0:49:17.279 how did Nancy Dowd kind of feeld this? And I 0:49:17.320 --> 0:49:19.520 thought she was cool. I thought she was really funny 0:49:19.520 --> 0:49:22.160 and really cool. She says this in a New York 0:49:22.160 --> 0:49:25.480 Times article from nineteen seventy seven. This is how it's 0:49:25.520 --> 0:49:30.840 set up. Set up obscenity hockey. A woman missed out 0:49:30.920 --> 0:49:34.160 has been meeting so many people lately who can't believe 0:49:34.200 --> 0:49:37.120 that she actually wrote this screenplay, that she is beginning 0:49:37.120 --> 0:49:40.440 to lose her patience, and she says, quote, the world 0:49:40.480 --> 0:49:43.280 has a weird view of women. People seem to believe 0:49:43.280 --> 0:49:46.000 that we have to write about divorce or suicide or 0:49:46.080 --> 0:49:49.759 children so called women's topics. But we've been around women 0:49:49.800 --> 0:49:53.799 aren't sequestered anymore, and kind of just goes on to 0:49:55.040 --> 0:49:57.600 talk about how it reminds me of like how you 0:49:57.640 --> 0:49:59.799 still see a lot of women writers being like, well, 0:50:00.000 --> 0:50:03.239 wish this wasn't the story. Shut up, like watch the 0:50:03.280 --> 0:50:06.400 movie and like it or don't. But this movie was, 0:50:06.480 --> 0:50:09.960 even in its time, considered to be pretty sexist. I 0:50:09.960 --> 0:50:14.239 think Paul Newman called it honestly sexist, which I think 0:50:14.320 --> 0:50:17.040 is an interesting way to come about it. And I 0:50:17.120 --> 0:50:19.839 think I think what he's trying to say, I don't know, 0:50:20.200 --> 0:50:22.000 let me know if either of you feel differently, is 0:50:22.000 --> 0:50:24.879 that it feels like it's more speaking to like how 0:50:25.000 --> 0:50:28.799 Nancy Dowd was not transcribing dialogue but like just sort 0:50:28.800 --> 0:50:32.200 of saying authentically, how guys she was hanging out with 0:50:32.280 --> 0:50:35.279 we're talking and not sanitizing what they were saying. So 0:50:35.320 --> 0:50:37.839 it's like she was hanging out with sexist guys. The 0:50:37.880 --> 0:50:41.040 movie is honestly sexist because she's not like, you know, 0:50:41.320 --> 0:50:43.399 sugarmaking more appealing. 0:50:43.600 --> 0:50:46.319 Yeah. Yeah, and you know I would say too that, 0:50:46.480 --> 0:50:49.120 you know, when it came out, you know, and I 0:50:49.200 --> 0:50:53.520 was whatever, eighteen years old. I don't recall knowing that 0:50:53.719 --> 0:50:55.120 a woman wrote it at the time. 0:50:55.239 --> 0:50:57.120 I mean, we just you know, you should have been 0:50:57.120 --> 0:51:00.800 reading the New York Times, well they couldn't up about. 0:51:00.600 --> 0:51:04.920 It, reading the Brockton Enterprise, and hoping to one day 0:51:04.960 --> 0:51:08.800 work for the Patriot Ledger. But we were just excited 0:51:09.320 --> 0:51:11.799 because there was a movie about hockey, you know, and 0:51:11.880 --> 0:51:15.280 it was our thing. Really didn't take it that much farther, 0:51:15.960 --> 0:51:17.960 you know. I was surprised when I like looked a 0:51:17.960 --> 0:51:20.799 little bit more into it later on, you know, just 0:51:20.800 --> 0:51:24.239 finding out like little little things about people who were 0:51:24.239 --> 0:51:27.600 in the movie. You know that that got me to look, 0:51:27.880 --> 0:51:30.280 you know, behind this, not behind the scenes, but behind 0:51:30.280 --> 0:51:32.480 the story, and it was like, you know, the only 0:51:32.520 --> 0:51:34.680 thing was like, oh, a woman wrote it. I guess, 0:51:35.239 --> 0:51:38.960 you know. My not reaction to that, but like the 0:51:39.000 --> 0:51:42.719 way I I might come off that way is like 0:51:42.719 --> 0:51:46.359 like if her brother wrote the movie, it'd be like, oh, yeah, 0:51:46.440 --> 0:51:49.080 of course, you know, like all that dialogue, this and that, 0:51:49.160 --> 0:51:51.720 and it just it just you know, it just wouldn't 0:51:51.719 --> 0:51:55.960 have seemed you know, it's so raunchy. Like I'm not 0:51:56.080 --> 0:51:59.480 saying like anybody can't be raunchy, but it's like, you 0:51:59.480 --> 0:52:01.600 know that one character, you know, Kaitlin you brought up 0:52:01.640 --> 0:52:05.320 Marris is like it's gross, you know, it's like it's hideous, 0:52:05.360 --> 0:52:09.200 like his h you know, I was saying to Jamie 0:52:09.360 --> 0:52:11.560 it was not like I never heard some of those 0:52:11.640 --> 0:52:16.960 terms before, but like so so rare, you know, and 0:52:17.080 --> 0:52:18.960 you know, I mean I don't know, I guess in 0:52:19.040 --> 0:52:23.359 an office, you know, on a team, there's always that 0:52:23.480 --> 0:52:27.000 one person that you know takes it a little bit 0:52:27.719 --> 0:52:29.880 farther or just like is extreme. 0:52:30.440 --> 0:52:30.680 Yeah. 0:52:30.719 --> 0:52:32.759 And as I was as I was watching it the 0:52:32.840 --> 0:52:36.319 other night, it was like I didn't catch, you know, 0:52:36.480 --> 0:52:38.759 in my earlier viewings of it that a lot of 0:52:38.800 --> 0:52:40.919 his teammates are kind of grossed out by him too, 0:52:41.000 --> 0:52:43.840 which is like, well, you know, thank God for that, 0:52:44.080 --> 0:52:44.279 you know. 0:52:44.840 --> 0:52:47.359 Yeah, I mean I think it's well, we'll get into 0:52:47.360 --> 0:52:51.239 this too, like I I don't know, it's I think 0:52:51.320 --> 0:52:55.800 that it seems like her goal in writing the movie 0:52:55.960 --> 0:52:58.880 was like writing obviously like a movie that people would 0:52:59.200 --> 0:53:02.080 like that was funny, but was also like authentic to 0:53:02.120 --> 0:53:05.080 what she'd experienced, which I don't really have a problem with. 0:53:05.200 --> 0:53:07.719 I think it's more like, especially because this movie has 0:53:07.719 --> 0:53:10.400 been out for almost, you know, fifty years now, like 0:53:10.680 --> 0:53:14.200 it's interesting watching like what parts of this movie are 0:53:14.360 --> 0:53:16.960 its legacy because I feel like the parts that I 0:53:17.000 --> 0:53:20.160 thought were interesting about the movie are not parts of 0:53:20.200 --> 0:53:22.319 the movie that are famous. And also that's like the 0:53:22.320 --> 0:53:26.879 writer has no control over what becomes known about their 0:53:27.000 --> 0:53:29.680 work or not. But it just I don't know, I 0:53:29.760 --> 0:53:32.200 just think it's there was more to this movie than 0:53:32.239 --> 0:53:35.319 I thought, but like the nuanced parts of it aren't 0:53:35.360 --> 0:53:36.640 what it's known for. 0:53:37.160 --> 0:53:41.359 That Plus like, yeah, she was observing the team, and 0:53:43.080 --> 0:53:47.520 who knows, like if she was like transcribing like stuff 0:53:47.520 --> 0:53:50.040 that they said and putting it into the script, or 0:53:50.080 --> 0:53:52.200 if she was embellishing some of it. But it seems 0:53:52.239 --> 0:53:54.799 like for the most part, she's like, well, the way 0:53:54.880 --> 0:53:58.120 that Dicky Dunn just tries to capture the spirit of 0:53:58.160 --> 0:53:59.319 the thing, I. 0:53:59.360 --> 0:54:01.000 Mean guess I guess she's trying to do that. 0:54:01.120 --> 0:54:04.600 Yeah, Nancy dwod was just trying to capture the spirit 0:54:04.640 --> 0:54:07.239 of the thing, and that seems like the spirit was 0:54:07.560 --> 0:54:10.440 a lot of like pretty losersh guys who are either 0:54:10.480 --> 0:54:15.040 creepy or stockery, or they don't treat women well, et cetera. 0:54:15.760 --> 0:54:18.480 That's just the vibe. Those were the vibes she was getting. 0:54:18.480 --> 0:54:21.560 So that's what she put on the page. My concern 0:54:21.880 --> 0:54:26.879 is that a lot of it is presented uncritically and 0:54:27.200 --> 0:54:31.480 or just framed, like Morris saying all of his gross 0:54:31.680 --> 0:54:34.840 comments about women's bodies and stuff like that is usually 0:54:34.840 --> 0:54:37.359 just framed as a joke, like ha ha, look at 0:54:37.400 --> 0:54:39.960 the look at the team creep. Isn't he funny? Aren't 0:54:39.960 --> 0:54:40.759 we laughing at him? 0:54:41.160 --> 0:54:41.560 Yeah? 0:54:41.640 --> 0:54:44.319 So but again it's like, you know, it's the seventies. 0:54:44.480 --> 0:54:49.279 A lot of horrible things we're not presented critically. It 0:54:49.320 --> 0:54:53.440 was just this is what's normal, and it's normal. So 0:54:53.520 --> 0:54:54.280 that's fine. 0:54:54.520 --> 0:54:58.000 Yeah, I don't know, it's movies of this era are 0:54:58.040 --> 0:55:03.040 always I feel like in that way. Yeah. Sorry, I 0:55:03.080 --> 0:55:04.399 have one more quote from her from this New York 0:55:04.400 --> 0:55:07.560 Times piece. The piece goes on she's generally frustrated that 0:55:07.640 --> 0:55:10.920 the movie was considered to have strong sexist overtones. This 0:55:11.000 --> 0:55:12.920 was something I was talked about in original reviews of 0:55:12.960 --> 0:55:17.960 the movie, but she was annoyed with that. She said, quote, 0:55:18.200 --> 0:55:20.040 the only thing I thought twice about writing was making 0:55:20.080 --> 0:55:23.759 the team's rich, uncaring owner a woman. I worried about 0:55:23.800 --> 0:55:26.080 people saying I had made a sexist statement, but I've 0:55:26.120 --> 0:55:29.080 seen that woman's attitude so many times. Quote I never 0:55:29.160 --> 0:55:31.960 let my children see a hockey game unquote, So it 0:55:32.000 --> 0:55:35.440 seems I mean whatever she felt, she felt differently, And 0:55:36.360 --> 0:55:40.359 I don't know. It's like, I feel I respect what 0:55:40.360 --> 0:55:42.359 she's trying to do, and I also agree with what 0:55:42.400 --> 0:55:45.960 you're saying. Galen, is like it just depends on like 0:55:46.560 --> 0:55:50.080 how your movie is received and how like I think, 0:55:50.080 --> 0:55:52.560 if you're looking for nuance in this movie, you can 0:55:52.719 --> 0:55:56.000 find it, but because of the genre, you might not 0:55:56.120 --> 0:55:57.560 necessarily be looking for it. 0:55:58.200 --> 0:55:59.840 I don't know, you know, And I think too, like 0:55:59.880 --> 0:56:02.240 the you know, the fact that the owner is a woman. 0:56:03.400 --> 0:56:05.680 You know, As I was, you know, pitching this idea 0:56:05.760 --> 0:56:09.400 to to Jamie, it's like, I don't think this will pass. 0:56:09.480 --> 0:56:13.040 I think this is like the worst possible. But she's 0:56:13.080 --> 0:56:17.760 she's you know, us the description rich uncaring, it's also 0:56:17.840 --> 0:56:23.480 it's a she's a ruthless, bottom line business person, right, 0:56:23.560 --> 0:56:27.279 and like any guy would have done that, you know, Yeah, 0:56:27.320 --> 0:56:29.880 I mean it the same, you know, But so I 0:56:29.880 --> 0:56:32.719 don't I don't know that you saw a lot of 0:56:32.719 --> 0:56:35.759 that back then where the I don't know, is it 0:56:35.760 --> 0:56:38.920 called girl boss. I don't want to step in anything here. 0:56:39.160 --> 0:56:41.520 You know. Well, yeah, you've seen my you've seen my show. 0:56:41.840 --> 0:56:43.520 I mean I think it kind of I think that 0:56:43.560 --> 0:56:45.880 it does fall into that thing. I don't know. I 0:56:45.920 --> 0:56:47.920 think it's interesting that that was what was on her 0:56:48.000 --> 0:56:50.920 mind in seventy seven, because I that was one of 0:56:50.960 --> 0:56:54.120 the characters that I didn't think, really I didn't have 0:56:54.160 --> 0:56:57.040 an issue with. I had an issue with how Red 0:56:57.200 --> 0:56:59.719 treated her versus like how she was portrayed, because it 0:56:59.760 --> 0:57:01.520 was like at that point for me, I don't know 0:57:01.520 --> 0:57:03.520 how you felt at this point in the movie, Caitlin, 0:57:03.600 --> 0:57:06.600 but it was like you had seen different kinds of 0:57:06.640 --> 0:57:09.840 women throughout this movie that It's like I feel like 0:57:09.880 --> 0:57:13.319 sometimes if there's only one woman in the movie and 0:57:13.400 --> 0:57:17.840 she is like a ruthless, cruel person, then it's like, well, 0:57:18.200 --> 0:57:20.800 I have no idea how this writer feels about women. 0:57:21.080 --> 0:57:24.680 This seems like how they're presenting all women. But because 0:57:24.720 --> 0:57:26.480 it's like this one character who comes up late in 0:57:26.480 --> 0:57:29.160 the movie, I feel like she represents more of a 0:57:29.720 --> 0:57:34.920 class thing than any sort of commentary on gender. And 0:57:34.520 --> 0:57:37.720 I was fine with that, Like it's you know, she 0:57:37.960 --> 0:57:42.520 and Regen is seen both suck in very very different ways. 0:57:43.040 --> 0:57:46.040 And yeah, that worked for me. I thought it was 0:57:46.040 --> 0:57:48.440 interesting that that was the thing that stuck with her, 0:57:48.480 --> 0:57:50.280 because I think the thing that stuck with me really 0:57:50.360 --> 0:57:54.680 was I agree, like there's not any pushback on how 0:57:54.840 --> 0:57:58.440 men talk about women in this movie. I agree with 0:57:58.440 --> 0:58:01.040 you Dad that like they're they're there were some that 0:58:01.320 --> 0:58:02.800 you know, you would, but you would have to kind 0:58:02.840 --> 0:58:06.000 of be looking for it of like someone being like Hugh, 0:58:06.240 --> 0:58:09.680 because they do like the I think that the character 0:58:09.800 --> 0:58:12.440 that is most clearly written in a way that the 0:58:12.440 --> 0:58:15.120 movie is conscious of being sexist is I don't know, 0:58:15.200 --> 0:58:16.520 do you know what the name of that character is, 0:58:16.640 --> 0:58:19.040 Like the one that is who only says. 0:58:18.800 --> 0:58:20.880 Sexist Morris Morris. 0:58:21.080 --> 0:58:25.000 Yeah, Yeah, Morris's whole thing is that he views women 0:58:25.160 --> 0:58:28.800 as objects. And it's like that's the joke with the character. 0:58:29.200 --> 0:58:31.000 Yeah, and you know, and to go back to go 0:58:31.120 --> 0:58:33.720 back to the point that it's a two hour movie. 0:58:34.360 --> 0:58:37.760 If you cut Mars out right, it becomes it could 0:58:37.760 --> 0:58:38.120 have been. 0:58:38.000 --> 0:58:41.160 An easier movie to digest for sure. 0:58:41.600 --> 0:58:44.640 Yeah, And I mean it doesn't really add anything. I 0:58:44.680 --> 0:58:47.960 don't think, you know, it's just it's like it, you 0:58:48.000 --> 0:58:52.080 know again, the scene with the owner and Paul Newman. 0:58:53.000 --> 0:58:55.760 You know, as I think about it now, that's like 0:58:55.960 --> 0:58:58.800 Reg Dunlop, you know, the shoes on the other foot 0:58:58.800 --> 0:59:02.680 now because you know, not because she's a woman, but 0:59:02.720 --> 0:59:05.520 she's the owner and she's telling them like, yeah, I 0:59:05.560 --> 0:59:09.120 could help you and your and your your players, but 0:59:09.320 --> 0:59:10.919 you know, but there's nothing in it for me. There's 0:59:10.920 --> 0:59:13.880 no money in it for me. And when he says, 0:59:13.960 --> 0:59:17.320 you know, we're human beings, you know, that's maybe about 0:59:17.320 --> 0:59:19.640 as you know for all the other scenes where like 0:59:19.680 --> 0:59:21.920 he's sort of vulnerable and he wants you know, France 0:59:21.960 --> 0:59:26.120 scene back. You know, that was a it's a small scene, 0:59:26.280 --> 0:59:30.200 but that's probably you know, his most his most human 0:59:30.360 --> 0:59:32.320 vulnerable moment maybe, you know. 0:59:32.320 --> 0:59:36.520 And it could have been a much more effective just 0:59:36.840 --> 0:59:40.400 scene in general or commentary or whatever it's trying to 0:59:40.520 --> 0:59:44.440 do as far as like, yeah, rich people conduct and 0:59:44.600 --> 0:59:48.240 them not caring about human lives and only caring about 0:59:48.280 --> 0:59:51.479 the bottom line. But then the scene ends with him 0:59:51.560 --> 0:59:56.000 going on a homophobic tirade about her young son, and 0:59:56.040 --> 0:59:59.080 then it's just like, well, that undercuts everything that could 0:59:59.080 --> 1:00:00.960 have been interesting about that scene. 1:00:00.840 --> 1:00:03.000 Right, Caitlin, As you said earlier, the scene where you 1:00:03.000 --> 1:00:06.959 know he's with the opponent's wife, you know, I mean, 1:00:07.560 --> 1:00:10.919 you know, she explains a very you know, personal thing 1:00:10.960 --> 1:00:14.080 to him, and he seems to be listening and have 1:00:14.160 --> 1:00:18.680 some you know, respect and everything. But then you know, 1:00:18.840 --> 1:00:21.920 right two seconds later, and that sets his character. Everything 1:00:22.400 --> 1:00:25.480 he can use he will use against others. 1:00:25.520 --> 1:00:28.919 You know. Yeah, well that's that's something that I maybe, 1:00:29.040 --> 1:00:31.560 I mean, if it works for every I mean that 1:00:31.840 --> 1:00:34.160 maybe has a good opportunity to slip over to just 1:00:34.280 --> 1:00:38.080 read as a character. I wonder I'm trying to think 1:00:38.120 --> 1:00:40.520 I couldn't think of like a modern day analog for 1:00:40.560 --> 1:00:42.920 this character, because I do think that there is value 1:00:43.120 --> 1:00:48.040 in presenting a character like this, who is you know, 1:00:48.280 --> 1:00:53.640 like I struggle, like a complicated guy, but someone who 1:00:54.320 --> 1:00:58.840 responds to insecurity by being hateful like that is I 1:00:58.840 --> 1:01:02.360 think something that exists in the world. It exists in 1:01:03.120 --> 1:01:05.160 a lot of men, but a lot of people, but 1:01:05.320 --> 1:01:09.400 mostly men. If we're being honest, But you know, in general, 1:01:09.440 --> 1:01:11.800 these are people who exist in the world. I don't 1:01:11.840 --> 1:01:17.920 think it's off the table to present that, but presenting 1:01:18.000 --> 1:01:21.240 it as your movie star hero is a very difficult 1:01:21.280 --> 1:01:23.680 self for me because then it's like, I think that 1:01:23.760 --> 1:01:25.840 the element like Paul Newman, I think gives a good 1:01:25.840 --> 1:01:29.240 performance in this movie, but he's Paul Newman. You know, 1:01:29.360 --> 1:01:32.000 he's like, you're gonna love him because he's Paul Newman, 1:01:32.040 --> 1:01:35.080 and he's charismatic, and he's handsome, and even when he's 1:01:35.080 --> 1:01:39.600 saying horrible things, especially in the late seventies where people 1:01:39.800 --> 1:01:43.960 said horrible things more openly than they currently do, Like, 1:01:44.400 --> 1:01:48.600 it's just it's even if there is something to be 1:01:48.760 --> 1:01:51.960 said about presenting a character like this, I feel like 1:01:52.200 --> 1:01:55.560 the combination of positioning it as your main character and 1:01:55.600 --> 1:02:01.240 your hero, and also like combining that with he doesn't 1:02:01.480 --> 1:02:03.920 really I mean, I guess like he doesn't get what 1:02:04.000 --> 1:02:06.240 he wants in the way that we see in some 1:02:06.320 --> 1:02:09.280 movies where like someone fucking sucks the whole movie and 1:02:09.320 --> 1:02:11.280 then for some reason they get exactly what they want 1:02:11.280 --> 1:02:13.840 at the end. It's a mixed bag for Rege at 1:02:13.880 --> 1:02:17.160 the end. But I wouldn't say he like he doesn't 1:02:17.200 --> 1:02:20.800 get his uh really like he gets to continue to 1:02:21.280 --> 1:02:23.680 work in hockey, Like he gets part of it. I 1:02:23.680 --> 1:02:26.480 think the main thing he loses is the relationship that 1:02:26.560 --> 1:02:29.760 he very obviously still wants, right and deservedly so and 1:02:29.760 --> 1:02:31.920 not I think is one of the better done parts 1:02:31.920 --> 1:02:34.720 of the movie for sure. But yeah, I don't know. 1:02:34.800 --> 1:02:38.920 I struggled with how his character was framed. 1:02:39.120 --> 1:02:43.040 I don't know, especially because he learns nothing, he shows 1:02:43.200 --> 1:02:46.320 no growth, and even at the end when it seems like, 1:02:46.840 --> 1:02:49.040 you know what, I don't want to win this way 1:02:49.080 --> 1:02:51.960 by you know, pummeling the other team. I want to 1:02:52.040 --> 1:02:56.000 play hockey and win that way. And then as soon 1:02:56.040 --> 1:02:58.640 as he's like, oh, they're scouts here, and it's. 1:02:58.560 --> 1:02:59.720 Like never, never mind. 1:03:00.120 --> 1:03:03.480 Yeah, yeah, it's like okay, so you have absolutely no 1:03:03.600 --> 1:03:05.320 code of ethics. That's interesting. 1:03:06.040 --> 1:03:08.000 And again, I mean, I don't know if we're supposed 1:03:08.000 --> 1:03:10.680 to be where we're supposed to be in the discussion. 1:03:10.720 --> 1:03:13.120 But you know, again, the more I thought about it, 1:03:13.200 --> 1:03:16.600 I remember reading a piece several years ago about the 1:03:16.640 --> 1:03:19.440 movie as you know, kind of a not a hockey 1:03:19.480 --> 1:03:21.280 movie or a good but like a sort of a 1:03:21.320 --> 1:03:28.160 snapshot of America kind of at the time, late seventies 1:03:28.240 --> 1:03:31.360 and I you know, I can't really remember what the 1:03:31.400 --> 1:03:35.280 economy was like, you know, but things, you know, longtime businesses, 1:03:35.320 --> 1:03:39.280 you know, long time industries were really taking you know, 1:03:39.440 --> 1:03:43.480 a hit back then, like the steel industry. And and 1:03:44.120 --> 1:03:46.640 one of the things that kind of struck me watching it, 1:03:46.640 --> 1:03:49.439 it's like with everybody depicted in there, even if they're 1:03:49.480 --> 1:03:52.600 not characters in the movie, but like you know, the fans, right, 1:03:53.480 --> 1:03:56.800 they're all looking at losing their jobs because they're you know, 1:03:56.920 --> 1:04:00.960 their jobs are going to disappear. And the player will 1:04:01.000 --> 1:04:03.480 they get signed, you know, will the team full? Will it? 1:04:03.600 --> 1:04:05.520 You know, if they were believing it would get sold. 1:04:06.040 --> 1:04:11.240 To me, there's like this low level desperation you know, 1:04:11.400 --> 1:04:15.040 to survive on the on the parts of everyone there, 1:04:15.280 --> 1:04:18.520 you know. And in the case of Paul Newman's you know, 1:04:18.880 --> 1:04:23.640 Paul Newman being the oldest one, being not really that successful, 1:04:24.160 --> 1:04:27.840 you know, I mean, whether this is you know him 1:04:27.880 --> 1:04:30.600 all the time or not, you know, he's he's kind 1:04:30.640 --> 1:04:32.919 of the worst one. He's like, I will I will 1:04:32.960 --> 1:04:37.840 do anything. I'll do whatever it takes, you know, to 1:04:37.880 --> 1:04:41.760 be able to continue my career someplace else or here. 1:04:42.320 --> 1:04:45.000 And if it has to do with you know, kind 1:04:45.040 --> 1:04:48.960 of manipulating my players or manipulating people who are involved 1:04:49.000 --> 1:04:52.080 my players, you know, means to an end pretty much 1:04:52.440 --> 1:04:53.360 all the way through. 1:04:53.440 --> 1:04:56.400 You know. I Yeah, I I the closest I can 1:04:56.480 --> 1:05:04.080 get to rationalizing Rag's carecharacter. I read an essay, an 1:05:04.120 --> 1:05:07.400 academic essay. I was on Google dot scholar dot com. 1:05:07.480 --> 1:05:12.200 Of course. Yes, this was published in athlon A E. 1:05:12.280 --> 1:05:15.800 T hl O N Eighth Lawn, The Journal of Sport Literature, 1:05:15.920 --> 1:05:19.640 volume thirty seven, issue one from twenty nineteen, written by 1:05:19.720 --> 1:05:22.920 John Source. To take everything he says with a grain AsSalt, 1:05:23.200 --> 1:05:27.560 but I did really appreciate his retrospective view on this movie, 1:05:27.960 --> 1:05:30.720 and I think it offered because he did a more 1:05:31.240 --> 1:05:35.360 class driven view of the men on his team, which 1:05:35.400 --> 1:05:38.040 I do think is a valuable way of looking at 1:05:38.080 --> 1:05:41.840 this movie. But he basically makes the argument that Reggie's 1:05:41.960 --> 1:05:45.720 character like doesn't shy away from the fact that reg 1:05:45.960 --> 1:05:48.680 is a despicable character, and I do. I guess it's 1:05:48.720 --> 1:05:52.320 like we don't have nineteen seventy seven goggles to put on, 1:05:52.400 --> 1:05:56.160 and I wonder how clearly that read at the time. 1:05:56.920 --> 1:05:59.960 But I think that the argument that he makes the 1:06:00.120 --> 1:06:03.400 I think is interesting and kind of speaks to like 1:06:03.440 --> 1:06:05.280 the parts of this movie that did work for me 1:06:05.960 --> 1:06:09.320 was that, you know, I think the setting is very 1:06:09.360 --> 1:06:14.280 relevant here where they're like encapsulated in this fictional steel 1:06:14.400 --> 1:06:18.080 town where jobs are falling left and right. There's this 1:06:18.240 --> 1:06:22.440 huge sense of insecurity about the future, and you see 1:06:22.480 --> 1:06:25.120 in these men on the team a level of like 1:06:25.560 --> 1:06:28.640 people acting desperately when their future is insecure. And I 1:06:28.680 --> 1:06:33.760 think reg is a really extreme, kind of like monstrous 1:06:33.920 --> 1:06:37.040 version of that, where he is so desperate to preserve 1:06:37.080 --> 1:06:40.280 what he wants for his version of the future that 1:06:40.360 --> 1:06:44.360 he will undercut almost anyone in his life, even if 1:06:44.400 --> 1:06:48.520 he likes and respects them. He is not above completely 1:06:48.600 --> 1:06:52.360 selling them out in order to preserve the future that 1:06:52.480 --> 1:06:56.880 he feels entitled to. And John Soares kind of makes 1:06:56.960 --> 1:07:01.320 the argument that this movie The Streets, well, I guess 1:07:01.320 --> 1:07:03.720 something that is historically true. I didn't know this, but 1:07:03.760 --> 1:07:06.640 I was delighted to learn it that in times of 1:07:07.440 --> 1:07:12.880 economic insecurity and in recessions and depressions, women are like 1:07:12.960 --> 1:07:19.320 statistically more likely to move with the time, and men 1:07:19.440 --> 1:07:22.440 are more likely to cling to how things were and 1:07:22.560 --> 1:07:27.280 be unwilling to change their situation. They're less likely to 1:07:27.320 --> 1:07:29.720 want to move, They're less likely to want to switch professions. 1:07:29.760 --> 1:07:31.720 They're less likely to want to change the way that 1:07:31.760 --> 1:07:34.680 their day to day life is versus women are far 1:07:34.760 --> 1:07:37.240 more likely to be I guess like just kind of 1:07:37.280 --> 1:07:40.560 more realistic about what's happening. 1:07:40.880 --> 1:07:41.919 More adaptable. 1:07:42.120 --> 1:07:44.200 You know, there's a line in the movie and in 1:07:44.240 --> 1:07:47.680 the scene where you know, redch and his opponent's wife 1:07:48.320 --> 1:07:51.560 are in bed, and it closes with I think he's 1:07:51.600 --> 1:07:54.160 telling her, you know, the team's going to fold, or 1:07:54.200 --> 1:07:55.680 the team they know, I don't know what I'm going 1:07:55.760 --> 1:07:59.360 to do, and she says to him, you know, just 1:07:59.360 --> 1:08:02.800 just use your imagination. That's what I've been doing. So 1:08:02.840 --> 1:08:05.400 it's you know, And I think he uses that line 1:08:05.800 --> 1:08:09.040 himself later on yea, on somebody else, but you know, but. 1:08:09.040 --> 1:08:11.080 He's still I mean, but I think that that's part 1:08:11.080 --> 1:08:14.200 of like what is frustrating about the men in this 1:08:14.320 --> 1:08:17.320 movie for me is like they even at the end, 1:08:17.479 --> 1:08:19.360 and I think the movie is conscious of this, Like 1:08:19.640 --> 1:08:23.120 reg has not really changed because his last line is 1:08:23.200 --> 1:08:26.000 him lying about whether his wife is leaving him or not, 1:08:26.160 --> 1:08:28.400 because you know, Lily is like, oh, is she coming 1:08:28.600 --> 1:08:32.160 and he's like yeah, and we know she's not. And 1:08:32.200 --> 1:08:34.880 it's like this it's kind of like a I think 1:08:34.960 --> 1:08:36.960 viewed a certain way, and this is not the way 1:08:37.000 --> 1:08:39.360 that this character is regarded in pop culture, but I 1:08:39.479 --> 1:08:41.439 liked looking at it that way of like, this guy 1:08:41.520 --> 1:08:44.360 is kind of tragic. He can't accept that things are 1:08:44.439 --> 1:08:48.880 changing and that his life is changing, and that is 1:08:48.920 --> 1:08:51.320 something that I think is like very relatable and everyone 1:08:51.360 --> 1:08:55.160 has experienced that to some degree. And also it's like 1:08:55.720 --> 1:08:59.120 if you whatever, because we as the audience know that 1:08:59.280 --> 1:09:04.000 he is just like really committed to having the upper 1:09:04.040 --> 1:09:06.800 hand in his life in a way that's impossible, and 1:09:07.360 --> 1:09:10.160 I just thought it was interesting. But yeah, I think 1:09:10.200 --> 1:09:13.160 that viewed from that sort of perspective, the men in 1:09:13.320 --> 1:09:19.120 this movie are not flexible. They are completely inflexible and 1:09:19.160 --> 1:09:21.720 they refuse to accept a future that is uncomfortable to them. 1:09:22.120 --> 1:09:25.479 And the women in this movie are not like that. 1:09:25.560 --> 1:09:29.000 They will. I mean, I think that the well, and 1:09:29.000 --> 1:09:32.439 we'll talk about really shortly because it's like her character 1:09:32.479 --> 1:09:34.920 is so frustrating because I feel like she was inconsistent 1:09:34.960 --> 1:09:39.360 with this. But with the characters of Suzanne, who is 1:09:40.760 --> 1:09:47.000 Suzanne Hanrahan I'm assuming, and Francine, they are both women 1:09:47.040 --> 1:09:51.960 who are like, look, I was either uncomfortable, unsafe, and 1:09:52.000 --> 1:09:53.680 so I got the fuck out and I moved on 1:09:53.800 --> 1:09:57.360 with my life. And that's like, that's what you have 1:09:57.439 --> 1:10:00.400 to do to survive. And I think it's a especially 1:10:00.439 --> 1:10:04.680 effective with Francine because she knows that she's right to 1:10:04.760 --> 1:10:07.040 leave him. I honestly was I thought that the movie 1:10:07.040 --> 1:10:08.880 would end with them getting back together, and I was 1:10:08.920 --> 1:10:09.960 so thrilled that it didn't. 1:10:10.040 --> 1:10:12.640 Absolutely, it feels like a good fake out. Yeah, she 1:10:13.320 --> 1:10:16.599 turns her car around and joins the parade. Yeah, I mean, 1:10:16.640 --> 1:10:19.080 and that was you know again, that was a thing 1:10:19.160 --> 1:10:20.960 that sort of struck me about the movie. You know, 1:10:21.600 --> 1:10:24.679 in a lot of other movies, that's what would have happened. 1:10:24.720 --> 1:10:27.160 You know, they would have gotten together at the end. 1:10:27.200 --> 1:10:29.719 You know, she would have been like, Wow, you won 1:10:30.360 --> 1:10:34.479 the trophy at the championship game. Well here's me another 1:10:34.760 --> 1:10:37.560 trophy trophy. 1:10:37.560 --> 1:10:40.799 Well, you know, happy endings in movies, right, that's. 1:10:40.640 --> 1:10:45.000 The Hollywood does love a happy ending. 1:10:45.240 --> 1:10:48.160 But the last shot of this movie is her driving 1:10:48.200 --> 1:10:50.519 in the other direction, and I feel like that great. 1:10:50.640 --> 1:10:53.479 That was my favorite sort of thread in the movie. 1:10:53.600 --> 1:10:56.800 Is I felt like because of the time, and I mean, 1:10:56.840 --> 1:11:00.320 this still happens in movies that they would how I 1:11:00.400 --> 1:11:02.160 end up reconciling When she showed up at the game 1:11:02.200 --> 1:11:05.280 at the end, I'm like, well, that's curtain's on, Franccene. 1:11:05.360 --> 1:11:09.240 She's gonna be fucked over. But rewatching it again knowing 1:11:09.280 --> 1:11:12.599 that she leaves, it's even kind of like cooler. Yeah, 1:11:12.640 --> 1:11:16.840 she was my favorite character because she consistently like she 1:11:17.240 --> 1:11:21.200 has affection for her ex husband but also like doesn't 1:11:21.240 --> 1:11:23.200 want to get back together. And I think like in 1:11:23.240 --> 1:11:26.880 their interactions, it was really interesting because Paul Newman's character 1:11:26.960 --> 1:11:30.439 is constantly trying to like manufacture a need that she 1:11:30.520 --> 1:11:32.920 would have for him, where he's he's constantly like, well, 1:11:32.920 --> 1:11:34.920 if you need money, you can call me, and she's like, 1:11:35.080 --> 1:11:37.559 I don't bought, Like you know, she doesn't need him, 1:11:37.600 --> 1:11:40.960 and he can't like he knows that at his core 1:11:41.479 --> 1:11:43.519 because he says it behind her back. He never says 1:11:43.520 --> 1:11:46.200 it to her face, but he says behind her back like, oh, yeah, 1:11:46.200 --> 1:11:48.800 since my wife broke up with me, her life has 1:11:48.840 --> 1:11:51.960 been way better, Like he says that to Lily, So 1:11:52.000 --> 1:11:54.200 it's like he knows it, but he can't really admit it. 1:11:54.240 --> 1:11:57.560 And it's just it felt like an interesting, like complicated 1:11:57.600 --> 1:12:00.760 relationship dynamic that feels like something that happens in the 1:12:00.760 --> 1:12:05.120 real world. And I just like that specific subplot I 1:12:05.200 --> 1:12:08.720 think kind of worked for me, especially because Francine was like, 1:12:09.280 --> 1:12:12.360 you know, touched that he seemed to recognize that when 1:12:12.360 --> 1:12:15.960 she heard it from a third party. But he's right, 1:12:16.240 --> 1:12:18.439 and she wants to move on with her life and 1:12:18.479 --> 1:12:21.040 she does, and I thought that that was cool. Yes, 1:12:21.400 --> 1:12:26.600 But for some reason, that same nuance in generosity is 1:12:26.640 --> 1:12:31.759 not extended to Lily, which I found to be so weird. 1:12:32.240 --> 1:12:34.719 I'm like, was that a studio note, Like two women 1:12:34.760 --> 1:12:37.400 can't leave their husbands, it can just be the one 1:12:37.560 --> 1:12:41.120 like what happened there? Because Lily, I think again, is 1:12:41.600 --> 1:12:44.960 set up in an interesting way, but then it kind 1:12:44.960 --> 1:12:47.320 of goes away by the ant of the movie, right. 1:12:47.200 --> 1:12:51.800 It seems like she's being set up that her arc 1:12:51.920 --> 1:12:58.040 will be like she's mustering up the courage to actually 1:12:58.400 --> 1:13:00.960 leave her husband, which is so that she seems to 1:13:01.000 --> 1:13:05.280 want to do for a while. She's like very vocal 1:13:05.320 --> 1:13:09.960 about how miserable she is in this town. She seems 1:13:10.080 --> 1:13:15.120 very miserable in the relationship. She's watching her husband flirting 1:13:15.120 --> 1:13:19.960 with other women, and she eventually I don't know if 1:13:19.960 --> 1:13:23.479 there's some catalysts that gets her to finally leave him, 1:13:23.560 --> 1:13:25.840 or if it just kind of happens, but one day 1:13:25.960 --> 1:13:29.559 she shows up on Also the fact that she goes 1:13:29.640 --> 1:13:32.920 to Reggie. I guess he's the only person who has 1:13:32.960 --> 1:13:36.920 like extended any kind of olive Brancher or anything. 1:13:37.320 --> 1:13:38.840 I sort of found that to be an act of 1:13:38.880 --> 1:13:42.519 desperation because we've seen her fail to make friends and 1:13:42.600 --> 1:13:47.479 connections inside of this small world that she's been forced into. 1:13:47.640 --> 1:13:49.680 Kind of right, because we see her hang out with 1:13:49.800 --> 1:13:54.680 other hockey wives for lack of a better term. 1:13:55.120 --> 1:13:56.800 Who to be fair, and I think this is like 1:13:56.880 --> 1:14:00.000 a class thing where she and her husband ned because 1:14:00.120 --> 1:14:02.600 they're like from you know, well to do families, and 1:14:02.640 --> 1:14:07.880 they're both college educated. She is positioned as like smarter, hotter, 1:14:08.080 --> 1:14:11.080 better than the other hockey wives, which didn't feel fair. 1:14:11.600 --> 1:14:15.320 Right, Yeah, and she's not able to connect with them. 1:14:15.400 --> 1:14:18.559 So anyway, she leaves Bryden for a while and goes 1:14:18.880 --> 1:14:23.320 to Reggie and she's like, I'm moving in, I guess, 1:14:23.800 --> 1:14:28.360 and then he takes her. He introduces her to Franccene, 1:14:28.720 --> 1:14:30.920 and what I would have liked to have happened was 1:14:31.680 --> 1:14:34.240 they become friends. They have a lot of common ground. 1:14:34.680 --> 1:14:35.720 You know they're both. 1:14:36.000 --> 1:14:38.400 Which is like established, and the one scene they have together, 1:14:38.520 --> 1:14:39.040 it's like. 1:14:39.080 --> 1:14:41.360 Right, like there's a lot to learn for sure, like 1:14:41.360 --> 1:14:45.240 there are neither like current or former relationships with hockey 1:14:45.320 --> 1:14:48.960 players who don't know how to treat women well at all, 1:14:49.640 --> 1:14:52.120 and the women are sick of it. And I thought 1:14:52.160 --> 1:14:58.599 it was gonna be a situation where Franccene empowers Lily 1:14:58.760 --> 1:15:01.839 to like you know, write out on her own, because there's. 1:15:01.640 --> 1:15:04.400 Which it's like, I well, but that's what was so confusing, 1:15:04.400 --> 1:15:07.559 because it felt like, you know, you can I don't know, 1:15:07.680 --> 1:15:11.599 like the makeover thing didn't bother me at all really 1:15:11.680 --> 1:15:14.120 because it's also like we're seeing Susanne or no, sorry, 1:15:14.120 --> 1:15:18.040 we're seeing Francceine at her job. So okay. I think 1:15:18.080 --> 1:15:21.120 a lesser movie would have reg be like we gotta 1:15:21.240 --> 1:15:23.800 make this girl over and you know, but like Reg 1:15:24.360 --> 1:15:27.719 right there and Francine and like whatever, it's a dated 1:15:27.720 --> 1:15:29.760 way of doing it. But I was like, okay, but 1:15:29.800 --> 1:15:31.960 then when but then when they go to the hockey game, 1:15:32.040 --> 1:15:35.280 like what happened? Because I really liked that conversation where 1:15:35.720 --> 1:15:38.599 Lily is and again it's like in the context of 1:15:38.640 --> 1:15:42.680 like what I mean, we're well into second wave feminism 1:15:42.720 --> 1:15:45.600 by the late seventies, but leaving your husband in the 1:15:45.680 --> 1:15:50.880 late seventies is different than currently, right, and there are 1:15:50.960 --> 1:15:55.120 different dynamics to that, and so I understand why, like 1:15:55.439 --> 1:15:58.639 Lily is nervous about it. It's a nerve wracking experience 1:15:58.640 --> 1:16:00.880 to leave your spouse, no matter what is happening in 1:16:01.720 --> 1:16:05.759 But I liked how Francine like she said, it's lousy 1:16:05.760 --> 1:16:07.879 at first you think you're dying, but then it's fabulous. 1:16:07.960 --> 1:16:09.640 You become a new woman and you're like, this is 1:16:09.680 --> 1:16:12.920 such an interesting dynamic to set up, but then it 1:16:12.960 --> 1:16:15.160 just goes nowhere, it goes back nowhere. 1:16:15.240 --> 1:16:18.280 Yeah, yeah, and the interesting you know Caitlyn too, I mean, 1:16:18.640 --> 1:16:27.719 like and Jamie, that's your name, right, Yeah, I agree. 1:16:27.760 --> 1:16:31.800 Like Lily, you know, that whole character sort of confuses 1:16:31.840 --> 1:16:35.240 me because you know, she makes very clear she doesn't 1:16:35.360 --> 1:16:37.840 like that life. They could go back to, you know, 1:16:38.000 --> 1:16:44.960 something easier with money, and she leaves her husband but 1:16:45.160 --> 1:16:49.160 stays in the life. You know, she stays in the town. 1:16:49.240 --> 1:16:51.600 She goes to another hockey person, you know. 1:16:51.920 --> 1:16:55.240 So it's like, I do wonder, I mean, but I wondered, 1:16:55.280 --> 1:16:58.200 like if that was just like temporary and then she 1:16:58.400 --> 1:17:00.600 because it was like, I mean, I guess it took Franccene. 1:17:00.680 --> 1:17:03.160 We don't know how long she and reg have been separated, 1:17:03.240 --> 1:17:06.519 or how long Francine had to save or whatever it 1:17:06.520 --> 1:17:09.000 would take for her to start her restart her life 1:17:09.000 --> 1:17:12.559 somewhere else, But I don't know. It seemed like the 1:17:12.640 --> 1:17:16.320 movie was setting us up for like, oh, Franccene could 1:17:16.600 --> 1:17:20.400 inspire or give Lily the confidence to do something similar. 1:17:21.000 --> 1:17:24.800 Yes, coach, I agree, like I empower her coachure, so 1:17:25.439 --> 1:17:27.720 that that part was a little bit hard not to 1:17:27.920 --> 1:17:30.120 just of it. It was like, oh, I didn't think 1:17:30.439 --> 1:17:33.759 that was going to be the result of this, you know, right, because. 1:17:33.600 --> 1:17:37.000 Then it's like Ned, Ned does not change at all. 1:17:37.120 --> 1:17:40.599 I know that, like symbolically him doing the strip tease 1:17:40.720 --> 1:17:43.040 is supposed to mean something, but it just like that 1:17:43.120 --> 1:17:45.960 did nothing for me at all. I found his character 1:17:45.960 --> 1:17:48.000 frustrating throughout. I mean, as you know that, I just 1:17:48.040 --> 1:17:49.920 like did not take to that character at all. I 1:17:49.920 --> 1:17:53.400 didn't like him. I thought he was both snobby and 1:17:53.720 --> 1:17:57.160 exactly all of the things that he claimed that he 1:17:57.280 --> 1:18:00.840 was above. Like yeah, I just I just didn't I 1:18:00.880 --> 1:18:03.640 thought he's like such a snotty little asshole who is 1:18:03.960 --> 1:18:07.240 horrible to his wife. I didn't know how to communicate 1:18:07.280 --> 1:18:11.080 with her. Again, a legitimate relationship dynamic to explore, but 1:18:11.200 --> 1:18:13.040 like I felt like at the end, he's like, now 1:18:13.160 --> 1:18:15.200 I got my wife back and she's got this cool 1:18:15.200 --> 1:18:17.640 new makeover, and it's like, but you did nothing, You 1:18:17.680 --> 1:18:20.680 did nothing. And the last thing he did before he 1:18:20.720 --> 1:18:25.680 did his weird little routine that I didn't like, was like, 1:18:25.800 --> 1:18:28.800 talk shit about her on the radio. And I was like, 1:18:29.479 --> 1:18:31.080 is ay I gonna tell her about that? Say, we're 1:18:31.080 --> 1:18:34.360 gonna tell her that he called her a hot piece 1:18:34.400 --> 1:18:37.599 of ass who's an alcoholic that hates him on the radio, 1:18:37.920 --> 1:18:41.400 because I would not be thrilled to hear my spouse 1:18:41.600 --> 1:18:42.639 saying shit like that. 1:18:43.080 --> 1:18:45.800 True. But then I'd be like, but he's exactly right. 1:18:45.960 --> 1:18:48.160 I am a hot who hates. 1:18:48.000 --> 1:18:52.200 Him, and I'd stop drinking if I if I just 1:18:52.320 --> 1:18:52.760 left him. 1:18:53.120 --> 1:18:56.680 Yeah, yeah, I mean, when Francine and Lily show up 1:18:56.720 --> 1:18:59.040 to the game at the end, one of them says, 1:18:59.479 --> 1:19:02.599 what am I even doing here? And I'm like, yeah, 1:19:02.680 --> 1:19:04.840 your question, what are you even doing there? 1:19:05.040 --> 1:19:06.479 I wish that I knew the answer. 1:19:07.520 --> 1:19:10.519 Well, I think if if Lily wanted to go to 1:19:10.560 --> 1:19:13.559 that last game. She did not really have a lot 1:19:13.560 --> 1:19:16.880 of friends among the other wives. True, you know, so 1:19:17.360 --> 1:19:20.160 you know, like as an ally maybe And there is 1:19:20.200 --> 1:19:22.639 another scene and you know, you know, we've talked mainly 1:19:22.640 --> 1:19:26.640 about the same two three women, but there are some 1:19:26.680 --> 1:19:28.800 scenes with the other wise. Like there's a scene where 1:19:28.800 --> 1:19:30.880 the wives are all in their car waiting for their 1:19:30.960 --> 1:19:33.479 husbands to get home from a bus trip. And I 1:19:33.800 --> 1:19:36.439 thought it's a sort of a sad scene, but in 1:19:36.520 --> 1:19:39.000 the in the in the same way, they kind of 1:19:39.040 --> 1:19:41.960 like have to kind of you know, form their own 1:19:42.000 --> 1:19:44.760 little group and rally around each other and support each 1:19:44.760 --> 1:19:47.919 other because they clearly are not, you know, too psyched 1:19:48.000 --> 1:19:51.040 with with the life either. And there you know what 1:19:51.120 --> 1:19:54.000 their husbands are doing, and you know that they're gone 1:19:54.080 --> 1:19:54.680 and this and that. 1:19:55.160 --> 1:19:59.640 I wish since this is mostly an ensemble cast, you know, 1:19:59.680 --> 1:20:02.519 you've got Paul Newman is like the main character, but 1:20:02.520 --> 1:20:06.720 you've got a lot of little subplots with various other characters, 1:20:06.880 --> 1:20:10.920 that there was more focus on the wives of these 1:20:11.040 --> 1:20:17.440 hockey players, because to me, they're in more interesting situations 1:20:17.479 --> 1:20:21.360 than especially because so many of the men are characterized 1:20:21.400 --> 1:20:25.680 as either just being like hot headed or trying to 1:20:25.760 --> 1:20:30.880 prove something about their masculinity, or their sleezy creeps, or 1:20:30.920 --> 1:20:33.760 their wildly homophobic you know, all of this stuff that 1:20:33.800 --> 1:20:37.360 I don't want to see. And then the women are 1:20:37.800 --> 1:20:41.120 in this position of you know, it's a time where 1:20:41.720 --> 1:20:45.559 a lot of people in like hetero couples, the women 1:20:45.600 --> 1:20:51.160 were still relying on their husbands for sustainable like for 1:20:51.640 --> 1:20:55.960 his income, and women in the workplace were not as 1:20:56.040 --> 1:20:58.840 welcome as they are today. So it was hard to 1:20:58.960 --> 1:21:02.120 be a single one owner to be, you know, someone 1:21:02.280 --> 1:21:05.840 earning your own way as a woman at that time, 1:21:06.160 --> 1:21:11.000 and so they're relying on these men who are not 1:21:11.240 --> 1:21:14.760 treating them well at all. But it's also very like 1:21:15.520 --> 1:21:21.559 normalized culturally, but they still are like heavily drinking about it. 1:21:21.600 --> 1:21:22.639 There's a scene where. 1:21:22.880 --> 1:21:25.800 I will actually I liked the scene. I think you're 1:21:25.840 --> 1:21:30.120 gonna reference because I yeah, it's I'm trying to like 1:21:30.520 --> 1:21:32.599 put this through because it's like, it's not like there 1:21:32.600 --> 1:21:36.839 were not movies that had women protagonists in the seventies, 1:21:36.840 --> 1:21:38.640 but in sports movies, I know that that was I 1:21:38.960 --> 1:21:42.720 feel like, I don't know, I feel like I feel 1:21:42.760 --> 1:21:44.880 a little defensive of Nancy Dad because I will say, 1:21:44.920 --> 1:21:50.280 I do think that in this movie, the men, with 1:21:50.400 --> 1:21:53.920 the exception of Reg, who at least you see a 1:21:53.960 --> 1:21:56.360 few layers of even though I kind of dislike all 1:21:56.400 --> 1:21:59.200 of them, but you do see different lairs of this character, 1:21:59.280 --> 1:22:01.479 so there's like no and how he's written. But I 1:22:01.520 --> 1:22:05.400 think that the women that are presented far more broadly 1:22:05.479 --> 1:22:08.800 than the men are because most of the hockey team, 1:22:08.880 --> 1:22:12.439 except for like Ned and Reg, are like just like, 1:22:12.680 --> 1:22:15.160 here's this guy, and this is what he does and 1:22:15.200 --> 1:22:17.800 how he reacts. Like here's a sexist guy, here's a 1:22:17.920 --> 1:22:20.960 violent guy, here's a homophobic guy. And you're like, there's 1:22:21.000 --> 1:22:23.840 all these guys, and they're written in the very, very 1:22:23.880 --> 1:22:29.120 broad way that men in raunchy comedies are, which is 1:22:29.200 --> 1:22:31.840 kind of why I don't like the genre. But I 1:22:31.920 --> 1:22:34.200 will say that, like, I mean, I even think back 1:22:34.240 --> 1:22:37.000 to like raunchy comedies that came out when we were 1:22:37.640 --> 1:22:40.559 the target audience, and I'm thinking like early hangover movies 1:22:40.600 --> 1:22:42.920 and like John Appatow movies and shit like that, and 1:22:43.000 --> 1:22:46.800 I feel like in this movie you get women, like 1:22:46.960 --> 1:22:52.400 more different kinds of women than you did like thirty 1:22:52.479 --> 1:22:55.439 years later in some cases. But true, I think the 1:22:55.479 --> 1:22:58.120 hockey wives are the most broadly written women that appear 1:22:58.240 --> 1:23:01.000 in the movie. And I didn't love that because I 1:23:01.000 --> 1:23:02.920 feel like it in the same way that I didn't 1:23:02.960 --> 1:23:05.760 like when Ned was like a snotty like I went 1:23:05.840 --> 1:23:09.519 to whatever fucking school he went to, and so I'm 1:23:09.960 --> 1:23:12.920 better than most of the guys on this team, like 1:23:12.960 --> 1:23:15.320 it's just like a moral superiority. And Lily kind of 1:23:15.320 --> 1:23:18.120 takes that into how she treats the hockey wives, where 1:23:18.120 --> 1:23:20.599 I think she treats them kind of as like bimbos 1:23:20.600 --> 1:23:22.960 who aren't as smart as her, and it seems like 1:23:23.000 --> 1:23:25.280 that is a part of the reason that she doesn't 1:23:25.320 --> 1:23:27.880 hang out with them, because it seems like the other 1:23:28.120 --> 1:23:30.559 hockey wives, who I don't know if we get names 1:23:30.560 --> 1:23:34.120 for them, they seem like they I mean, they have 1:23:34.160 --> 1:23:35.439 a lot in common. A lot of what they have 1:23:35.479 --> 1:23:39.400 in common sucks. Is like they are sort of along 1:23:39.479 --> 1:23:43.880 for the ride of their husband's career and it seems 1:23:44.040 --> 1:23:48.320 isolating and depressing and frustrating. And I thought it was 1:23:48.720 --> 1:23:50.760 she's made a joke of. But we see the same 1:23:50.800 --> 1:23:53.519 hockey wife a few different times who's constantly like kind 1:23:53.560 --> 1:23:58.719 of referencing like Johnny either like Johnny, Yes, Johnny's who's Johnny. 1:23:58.840 --> 1:24:01.960 I have no idea which Johnny is, but he's one 1:24:02.000 --> 1:24:02.400 of them. 1:24:02.320 --> 1:24:05.240 One of those. But I thought Johnny's wife like she's 1:24:05.400 --> 1:24:07.559 played for laughs mostly, But I thought it was like, 1:24:08.160 --> 1:24:10.880 I don't know, I didn't. I liked her like she 1:24:11.040 --> 1:24:13.360 was she was like trying to make the best of 1:24:13.400 --> 1:24:16.040 what she seemed to know was a bad situation. But 1:24:16.120 --> 1:24:18.000 she's like I'm trying to get my husband to read 1:24:18.040 --> 1:24:20.360 a book, or like I'm trying to get my husband 1:24:20.439 --> 1:24:24.320 to do anything except be a fucking goon, which is 1:24:24.360 --> 1:24:27.160 like whatever, what like all the guys in the team are, 1:24:27.920 --> 1:24:30.840 and it's you know, it's not. Is it the most 1:24:30.840 --> 1:24:33.880 progressive thing ever? No, But I didn't feel like there is. 1:24:34.040 --> 1:24:37.080 Like she was like an interesting character that I wish 1:24:37.120 --> 1:24:39.400 it had been played for more than last because when 1:24:40.600 --> 1:24:43.120 one of the fights that Lily and Ned have in public, 1:24:43.640 --> 1:24:46.000 you know, Lily basically ends by being like me and 1:24:46.040 --> 1:24:49.479 Ned are better than everyone here, bye, and like leaves right. 1:24:50.080 --> 1:24:54.160 And Johnny's wife, who God, I wish she had a 1:24:54.240 --> 1:24:56.639 name respond to that by being like, oh, I really 1:24:56.680 --> 1:25:00.120 feel for her, and you're like, that's I don't know, 1:25:00.200 --> 1:25:04.880 I whatever, Like I guess I understood like those. It 1:25:04.960 --> 1:25:07.679 seems like it's implied in the movie that those women 1:25:07.720 --> 1:25:11.160 don't connect with each other because of class differences. But 1:25:12.200 --> 1:25:14.719 I felt like the hockey wives I thought were played 1:25:14.760 --> 1:25:17.400 broadly in a way that it would have been because 1:25:17.560 --> 1:25:22.760 I appreciated that the movie made time for women at all, 1:25:23.040 --> 1:25:27.439 which again it's like, I like, sports movies almost never do, 1:25:27.720 --> 1:25:30.600 and if you, if you do, it's like the supportive 1:25:30.680 --> 1:25:34.840 wife like grabbing their husband's hand being like go. 1:25:34.200 --> 1:25:38.040 Go coach a baby or whatever the fuck, which is 1:25:38.080 --> 1:25:41.080 like so fucking boring. But it's like how a lot 1:25:41.080 --> 1:25:44.720 of women appear in sports movies at all. But there 1:25:44.840 --> 1:25:47.479 was especially because it's like Nancy Dad seemed to want 1:25:47.560 --> 1:25:48.880 to include women. 1:25:48.720 --> 1:25:52.840 But it felt like well to an extent, like I'm 1:25:52.880 --> 1:25:56.920 happy to include educated women, but like it seemed like 1:25:56.960 --> 1:25:58.920 the hockey wives were. I just feel like there was 1:25:59.000 --> 1:26:02.040 room for them to be played off as more of 1:26:02.120 --> 1:26:04.000 kind of one liners. But I liked that scene in 1:26:04.040 --> 1:26:06.080 the car where it was like, even though these women 1:26:06.120 --> 1:26:08.840 don't get along, they do have a common struggle and 1:26:08.880 --> 1:26:11.680 they are pushed aside and expected to put up with 1:26:11.760 --> 1:26:15.879 all of this shit, and it's like leading to addiction 1:26:16.000 --> 1:26:17.360 issues for them, and. 1:26:17.360 --> 1:26:20.840 Yeah, they all seem to be self medicating to fight 1:26:21.200 --> 1:26:27.240 the just either loneliness or abuse that they're putting up with. Right, 1:26:28.040 --> 1:26:32.120 can we talk about Suzanne, because. 1:26:31.840 --> 1:26:33.240 Let's talk about Suzanne. 1:26:33.760 --> 1:26:36.120 So Suzanne is the character. I think she's only in 1:26:36.240 --> 1:26:38.240 one scene, yeah, which. 1:26:38.000 --> 1:26:41.800 Is wild because the actor who plays her is like 1:26:42.520 --> 1:26:46.599 so successful and won an Oscar like this same year. 1:26:47.000 --> 1:26:49.680 Oh wow, what's her name? I didn't even look it up. 1:26:49.920 --> 1:26:54.040 Well, Linda Dylan. You probably my dad picked up on this. 1:26:54.120 --> 1:26:56.479 I was like, oh, she is she? I think most 1:26:56.640 --> 1:27:00.760 iconically plays the mom in a Christmas Story. But she 1:27:01.520 --> 1:27:04.439 or no, sorry, she was nominated this same year for 1:27:04.520 --> 1:27:11.160 playing I think the mom character in Close Encounters. Okay, 1:27:11.640 --> 1:27:16.240 but whatever. She's like a very very successful actor. But 1:27:16.320 --> 1:27:18.479 she's only in this movie for one minute, for. 1:27:18.479 --> 1:27:23.000 One scene, and it's the scene where she's in bed 1:27:23.200 --> 1:27:30.600 with Reggie, and she's talking about how her husband Hanrahan, 1:27:31.520 --> 1:27:33.840 when he was like out on the road for a game, 1:27:34.680 --> 1:27:38.160 how she and another hockey wife they would get together 1:27:38.400 --> 1:27:41.400 and talk about how depressed and lonely they were without 1:27:41.600 --> 1:27:44.760 the men, and then also how they lamented that they 1:27:44.840 --> 1:27:48.080 never did much of anything themselves, which I feel like 1:27:48.160 --> 1:27:51.960 is also maybe what Lily struggles with to some degree, 1:27:52.000 --> 1:27:56.480 where she's like, I'm not doing anything but like supporting 1:27:56.600 --> 1:27:59.280 my husband in his career, but like what about or 1:27:59.320 --> 1:28:02.880 maybe this is just like headcanon that I'm assigning to Lily. 1:28:03.080 --> 1:28:06.360 But anyway, Suzanne's talking about how like, oh, I never 1:28:06.520 --> 1:28:09.680 did anything for myself, and then she goes on to 1:28:09.720 --> 1:28:13.280 describe how one night when she and this other hockey 1:28:13.280 --> 1:28:16.920 wife were hanging out, they were drinking and they started 1:28:16.960 --> 1:28:21.639 fooling around, but then they kept getting together and having 1:28:21.680 --> 1:28:25.679 sex sober, and that they were like engaging in this 1:28:26.040 --> 1:28:32.160 like sexual relationship that they were both into. And she's like, hey, Reg, 1:28:32.240 --> 1:28:35.720 have you ever considered sleeping with men? And at first 1:28:35.760 --> 1:28:38.840 he says no, but then he's like, who knows, maybe 1:28:38.840 --> 1:28:42.679 I'll start sleeping with old goalies. And then I'm like, okay, 1:28:42.760 --> 1:28:43.640 he's I don't know. 1:28:44.479 --> 1:28:48.120 That scene is like almost and then it's so frustrating. 1:28:48.240 --> 1:28:51.519 But it's also like I feel like that's like Reg sucks, 1:28:51.560 --> 1:28:54.320 and it's like it's so frustrating to see a character 1:28:54.360 --> 1:28:57.160 that in their more private moments seems to be a 1:28:57.280 --> 1:29:00.240 better person than they are in their public. 1:29:00.120 --> 1:29:04.200 Yeah, right, Because again the whole reason this scene even 1:29:04.320 --> 1:29:07.160 happens narratively in the movie is that so he now 1:29:07.240 --> 1:29:12.280 has information that he uses against his opponent in a 1:29:12.600 --> 1:29:18.080 way that like outs this guy's wife, like disparages her 1:29:18.280 --> 1:29:22.800 for her queerness, and he's like using that as ammunition 1:29:22.960 --> 1:29:25.360 to try to win the game and like for his 1:29:25.400 --> 1:29:30.639 own personal benefit. He does something similar with the general manager, 1:29:30.760 --> 1:29:33.479 that guy Joe, where he's like, Hey, remember that night 1:29:33.680 --> 1:29:36.080 that you I walked in on you and you were 1:29:36.120 --> 1:29:39.880 wearing like women's lingerie and then you came on to me. Well, 1:29:39.920 --> 1:29:42.320 I don't have to tell anyone about that as long 1:29:42.360 --> 1:29:45.439 as you give me. So he basically like blackmails him 1:29:45.680 --> 1:29:48.760 to learn the owner who the owner of the team is. 1:29:49.040 --> 1:29:51.320 That's something that yeah, And then that's like I do 1:29:51.360 --> 1:29:55.000 think the Reges is a super villain because I do 1:29:55.600 --> 1:30:00.080 almost believe him when he says that he like he 1:30:00.000 --> 1:30:04.519 he's like, I get it. It's the seventies, queer people exist, Like, 1:30:04.720 --> 1:30:08.400 I do believe that he understands that. But the fact 1:30:08.400 --> 1:30:14.320 that he understands that and is not above exploiting societal 1:30:14.320 --> 1:30:18.639 homophobia against people that he knows and says he likes, 1:30:19.240 --> 1:30:23.640 it's like, that's that's extra Evil's that's extra evil. 1:30:23.800 --> 1:30:27.120 And in that scene, you know, like first of all, 1:30:27.160 --> 1:30:30.080 the scene where he you know, kind of bates the opponent, 1:30:30.520 --> 1:30:34.560 the goalie, right, you know, with this information that he 1:30:34.640 --> 1:30:39.360 has about his wife, you know, from a hockey perspective, 1:30:40.000 --> 1:30:44.040 you know, nobody, nobody stands on the ice and shouts 1:30:44.040 --> 1:30:45.720 at someone and then moves over. 1:30:45.840 --> 1:30:48.519 You know, Oh, they're not shouting plot points at each. 1:30:48.320 --> 1:30:51.080 Other on the Oh no no. So that that was 1:30:51.160 --> 1:30:53.120 like annoying because some of the you know, some of 1:30:53.240 --> 1:30:55.759 the stuff with the Hanson brothers, the hockey, the skating, 1:30:55.880 --> 1:30:59.439 the this that the hitting you know is legit. Those 1:30:59.439 --> 1:31:04.479 guys were really hockey players. But so Reg dunlop and 1:31:04.640 --> 1:31:08.639 rages the goalie who attacks him finally after a goal 1:31:08.720 --> 1:31:13.439 and it's a big fight. Now does anybody know at first, 1:31:13.640 --> 1:31:16.200 like what caused this big fight? Did anybody hear what 1:31:16.280 --> 1:31:19.800 Reggie was saying? I don't think so? Just the goalie? Yeah, 1:31:19.880 --> 1:31:23.200 so he he could have left it there on the ice, right, 1:31:23.479 --> 1:31:25.719 But then he comes in and tells his whole team 1:31:25.840 --> 1:31:27.680 like when they asked him, would you say, you know, 1:31:28.360 --> 1:31:34.479 and he you know someone else that he was you know, 1:31:34.800 --> 1:31:37.920 I don't know that that is diabolical. 1:31:38.360 --> 1:31:41.840 Yes, it's evil, Like it's evil, and it's first because 1:31:42.160 --> 1:31:47.280 I didn't hate their scene together before I saw the 1:31:47.320 --> 1:31:51.040 scene after, because it felt like these are themes and 1:31:51.240 --> 1:31:54.960 just like queer people like just appearing in movies at 1:31:55.000 --> 1:31:57.120 all in a way that was like it seemed like 1:31:57.160 --> 1:32:00.240 they both accepted each other in that scene, and like 1:32:00.320 --> 1:32:04.080 the language is not great, but it's like for the time, 1:32:04.200 --> 1:32:07.280 it was like, wow, this it seems very unlikely that 1:32:07.360 --> 1:32:12.080 this was appearing in like popular summer comedies at the time, 1:32:12.560 --> 1:32:17.479 So okay, like you know, I can navigate around the 1:32:17.600 --> 1:32:21.280 dated elements of it, but yeah, it's yeah, he was 1:32:21.320 --> 1:32:23.719 so evil about that. And I feel like she because 1:32:23.720 --> 1:32:27.400 that character never comes back. It doesn't come back around 1:32:27.439 --> 1:32:31.360 in a satisfying way, but in the same way. I mean, 1:32:31.400 --> 1:32:33.040 I love her. I like that scene. I think the 1:32:33.160 --> 1:32:34.880 last thing that we were talking about, dad, that I 1:32:34.880 --> 1:32:38.519 think is extra evil about Reg in that situation is 1:32:38.520 --> 1:32:41.799 that she mentions in that scene that when her husband 1:32:41.840 --> 1:32:44.920 found out that she had had sex with women, he 1:32:45.080 --> 1:32:47.839 was so abusive to her that she was in the hospital. 1:32:47.880 --> 1:32:51.360 And it's like, well, Reg clearly doesn't care about that, yeah, 1:32:51.400 --> 1:32:54.680 because he then taunts her husband that he knows to 1:32:54.720 --> 1:32:58.479 be abusive, and she says that like she's hiding out 1:32:58.520 --> 1:33:00.920 from him, Like it's just sounds like she was in 1:33:00.920 --> 1:33:06.599 this tremendously abusive relationship, which again I believe it like seems, 1:33:06.840 --> 1:33:10.200 you know whatever, that that still happens. But the fact 1:33:10.280 --> 1:33:14.519 that like our movie starting Hero then does that, I 1:33:14.520 --> 1:33:17.320 feel like it did undercut the fact that the movie 1:33:17.360 --> 1:33:20.160 went out of its way to say like that her 1:33:20.240 --> 1:33:22.720 having a queer relationship. Not only was he up said 1:33:22.720 --> 1:33:26.679 about being cheated on, but also this thing that felt 1:33:26.880 --> 1:33:28.439 I don't know, I mean that I guess you can 1:33:28.880 --> 1:33:30.920 tell us for the time, like there seemed like there 1:33:30.960 --> 1:33:34.640 was talk among the men of just confusion and like 1:33:34.880 --> 1:33:38.559 hateful confusion in handra hand and the whole team's case, 1:33:38.560 --> 1:33:41.640 They're like, well, if my wife has a relationship with 1:33:41.680 --> 1:33:44.439 a woman, then am I gay and I can't be gay? 1:33:44.560 --> 1:33:47.320 And like just like stuff that makes no sense. 1:33:47.560 --> 1:33:51.080 Yeah, that was a stretch. I think I don't know. 1:33:51.080 --> 1:33:54.680 That that, you know, I was like people people believe that. 1:33:55.439 --> 1:33:59.200 Yeah, I'm not sure that you know, but when I 1:33:59.240 --> 1:34:01.439 was a kid, I don't really think that that is 1:34:01.479 --> 1:34:02.840 what somebody thought. 1:34:03.520 --> 1:34:04.960 Yeah, I was like it doesn't make any sense, but 1:34:05.040 --> 1:34:07.400 it Yeah, okay, I was, I was curious about that, 1:34:07.479 --> 1:34:11.920 but it Yeah, I mean just again, reg Reg sucks. 1:34:12.640 --> 1:34:14.680 I love Paul Newman and I love Salad, but I 1:34:14.720 --> 1:34:19.240 hate Reg And it is what it is. But I 1:34:19.280 --> 1:34:21.800 did think that it was again, it's like this, this 1:34:21.920 --> 1:34:25.599 movie feels like it's doing incremental stuff in this genre 1:34:26.479 --> 1:34:30.680 that you don't see decades later. So I do appreciate that. 1:34:30.840 --> 1:34:35.920 It's like there is a queer character who is like 1:34:36.400 --> 1:34:40.720 open about it is cool, is performed in a way 1:34:40.760 --> 1:34:45.920 that felt authentic and cool. But also the seventies element 1:34:46.040 --> 1:34:49.760 of it is that they're immediately put in danger and 1:34:49.800 --> 1:34:51.200 then never appear in the movie again. 1:34:51.560 --> 1:34:56.599 So and you know, she's she's talking about her sexual 1:34:56.680 --> 1:34:59.280 relationship with a woman, but the scene we're seeing on 1:34:59.439 --> 1:35:03.679 screen is her in a sexual situation with a man, 1:35:03.880 --> 1:35:08.720 because heaven forbid we see like queer romance or sexuality 1:35:08.840 --> 1:35:11.000 actually on screen at that time. 1:35:11.120 --> 1:35:14.320 Yeah. Sure, or And it's like I sort of chalked 1:35:14.320 --> 1:35:17.559 that up more to like, well, how did people talk 1:35:17.560 --> 1:35:21.599 about bisexuality in the seventies, did they know? How did 1:35:21.640 --> 1:35:24.519 they have the tools? I just sort of assudent they did. 1:35:25.200 --> 1:35:29.720 But also like the way that raunchy comedies of like 1:35:30.280 --> 1:35:33.920 the nineties and two thousands would have, which. 1:35:33.720 --> 1:35:36.240 I think are worse than this movie. Honest, they are. 1:35:36.560 --> 1:35:39.000 They Yeah, and we've talked about I think I've like 1:35:39.040 --> 1:35:42.920 speculated as to why, but the way that those movies 1:35:43.000 --> 1:35:48.960 will have visibility of queer characters or of people of color, 1:35:49.040 --> 1:35:52.280 but they're only there to then be like punching bags 1:35:52.880 --> 1:35:58.200 to the main characters who are just saying horrible things 1:35:58.280 --> 1:36:03.240 and like making jokes at their expense of like what 1:36:03.320 --> 1:36:07.040 in whatever way they are marginalized, That's that's why they're there, 1:36:07.200 --> 1:36:09.679 and it's so jokes can be made at their expense. 1:36:09.840 --> 1:36:12.759 So and I felt the same way for Suzanne, like, yes, 1:36:12.840 --> 1:36:17.720 she's a queer character who's talking openly about her queerness 1:36:18.000 --> 1:36:21.280 to someone who seems receptive to it. But we learned 1:36:21.280 --> 1:36:24.280 that that scene is only in the movie so that 1:36:24.640 --> 1:36:28.320 this guy can use that as ammunition to win a 1:36:28.360 --> 1:36:32.840 hockey game and then boast about it. He's like, yeah, team, 1:36:33.200 --> 1:36:37.679 the reason we won is because I outed this woman 1:36:38.000 --> 1:36:39.680 who has an abusive husband, and. 1:36:39.760 --> 1:36:43.439 Anyone who had listened, yeah, that's I think that's like 1:36:43.479 --> 1:36:46.519 that's a not that it justifies any kind of behavior, 1:36:46.520 --> 1:36:48.479 but the fact that he does it a second time, 1:36:49.240 --> 1:36:52.360 like he shouts it at her husband, which is putting 1:36:52.439 --> 1:36:54.680 her in danger in one way, but then he does 1:36:54.720 --> 1:36:55.639 it a second time. 1:36:55.560 --> 1:36:56.479 Right after, and it's. 1:36:56.360 --> 1:36:58.160 Like he's the worst. 1:36:59.040 --> 1:36:59.559 Just so you doing. 1:37:01.720 --> 1:37:06.240 I don't have much else to say except that their 1:37:06.439 --> 1:37:10.480 their bus driver is wearing a helmet with a swastika 1:37:10.520 --> 1:37:11.000 on it. 1:37:11.320 --> 1:37:12.400 I noticed that as well. 1:37:12.520 --> 1:37:15.920 I never never caught that the first several times I 1:37:16.000 --> 1:37:19.200 watched the movie. You know, Walt Walt, who just goes 1:37:19.240 --> 1:37:21.840 from Walt the bus driver and you know, he's another one. 1:37:21.960 --> 1:37:25.200 He gets all swept and swept up in the you know, 1:37:25.479 --> 1:37:29.120 chiefs mania and starts you know, hammer and the bus, 1:37:29.400 --> 1:37:32.160 you know, to make it look meaner, and then the swastika, 1:37:32.760 --> 1:37:33.920 you know, but that you're. 1:37:33.840 --> 1:37:37.360 Just like, is that? Yeah? That that was a kind 1:37:37.360 --> 1:37:39.320 of jump scare in the movie, and it's like if 1:37:39.360 --> 1:37:43.559 it was. I think maybe the most generous reading of 1:37:43.600 --> 1:37:46.400 that was like, oh, this team is getting more and 1:37:46.560 --> 1:37:50.240 more evil, but we were like, there's so many there's 1:37:50.360 --> 1:37:52.720 no world where that was necessary. No. 1:37:53.479 --> 1:37:59.320 Yeah, there's also an indigenous player during the final game. 1:37:59.600 --> 1:38:01.439 I want to talk about that. Yes, I mean I 1:38:01.479 --> 1:38:04.479 know obviously you did get spread it up. Yes, which 1:38:04.520 --> 1:38:08.759 in general, because the team in this movie are called 1:38:08.800 --> 1:38:12.519 the Chiefs and there's a lot of and I think 1:38:12.560 --> 1:38:18.680 that that's an ongoing conversation in sports, is it is 1:38:19.040 --> 1:38:24.840 teams that are named and characterize Indigenous people as mascots, 1:38:25.000 --> 1:38:29.200 and that's an ongoing conversation also in hockey specifically because 1:38:29.240 --> 1:38:32.559 the Chicago Blackhawks. I mean that I know you know this, 1:38:33.080 --> 1:38:38.040 you know this whole conversation of representing Indigenous people as 1:38:38.600 --> 1:38:42.479 mascots and the issues and conversations that have taken place. 1:38:42.680 --> 1:38:46.240 And also that team is still called the Chicago Blackhawks. 1:38:46.280 --> 1:38:50.200 They did not make any changes after that conversation was had. 1:38:50.280 --> 1:38:53.040 I was trying to happen in the mid twenty tens. 1:38:53.600 --> 1:38:57.679 But so this team is named the Chiefs, and there 1:38:57.840 --> 1:39:01.960 is a character in the. 1:39:03.400 --> 1:39:07.880 On the Syracuse team, Yes, what is his Clarence swamp 1:39:07.920 --> 1:39:14.840 Town aka Screaming Buffalo, who is played by a real 1:39:14.880 --> 1:39:20.440 hockey player named Joe Nolan, who is First Nations. 1:39:21.360 --> 1:39:24.280 I was worried that I was really worried that it 1:39:24.320 --> 1:39:25.360 was a guy in brown. 1:39:25.360 --> 1:39:29.320 A white guy. Yeah, but this is a real Indigenous person, 1:39:29.840 --> 1:39:34.400 a real hockey player However, the way that the costuming 1:39:34.720 --> 1:39:38.200 and the just characterization of that character is still relying 1:39:38.439 --> 1:39:47.800 heavily on stereotypes of Indigenous and First Nations people. So whoops. 1:39:48.080 --> 1:39:51.320 Yeah, that's a tough one, you know, I mean all 1:39:51.360 --> 1:39:54.320 the way down to like I said earlier, there was 1:39:54.360 --> 1:39:56.320 so much of the hockey parts of it are like, 1:39:57.800 --> 1:40:01.160 you know, an exaggeration, you know, like almost like a caricature, 1:40:02.160 --> 1:40:05.040 you know, of that scene. That's one of the things 1:40:05.080 --> 1:40:07.320 in the in the mood, it's like that never would 1:40:07.400 --> 1:40:10.479 be allowed, you know, he just he that's that's a 1:40:11.080 --> 1:40:13.000 you know. And again it's you know, we've talked to 1:40:13.080 --> 1:40:15.200 you know, if you could snip this guy out and 1:40:15.240 --> 1:40:18.360 this guy out, it really changes thing. That was like, 1:40:18.520 --> 1:40:21.160 all right, you've you've made your point. You know that 1:40:21.520 --> 1:40:26.120 the Syracuse team is loaded up on rugged guys, right, 1:40:26.479 --> 1:40:29.599 you know, to pay you back? You know, like how 1:40:29.600 --> 1:40:30.639 many did you have to have? 1:40:30.760 --> 1:40:32.479 Right? Well? And it's also like I don't think that 1:40:32.520 --> 1:40:36.080 the solution to that is cutting out that character. It's 1:40:36.120 --> 1:40:40.360 just presenting this real life First Nations hockey player in 1:40:40.400 --> 1:40:44.559 a way that wasn't you know, inherently connected to the 1:40:44.640 --> 1:40:47.880 fact that he was a First Nations player, Like I 1:40:48.200 --> 1:40:50.720 don't know, I have no objection to like having a 1:40:50.960 --> 1:40:55.000 cause because, like you've mentioned that, there's so many real 1:40:55.040 --> 1:40:58.000 life hockey players that appear in this movie, and Joe 1:40:58.080 --> 1:41:00.960 Nolan like played on a number of teams, including the 1:41:01.040 --> 1:41:05.160 Johnstown Jets. He's from a hockey family. He is h 1:41:05.640 --> 1:41:10.280 This is according to Hockey Legends dot com scholarly journal. 1:41:10.920 --> 1:41:15.720 Yes exactly. He is Ojibwa. He is the uncle of 1:41:15.760 --> 1:41:19.559 Buffalo Sabers coach Ted Nolan and great uncle of Jordan 1:41:19.640 --> 1:41:22.320 Nolan of the La Kings. So he's like from a 1:41:22.560 --> 1:41:25.880 like legacy hockey family. There's no issue with him being 1:41:25.880 --> 1:41:29.240 in this movie. It's just like presenting him as not 1:41:29.479 --> 1:41:33.480 inherently connected to his Like it's just like it's obviously 1:41:33.520 --> 1:41:36.519 written by a white writer of the time, disrespectful and 1:41:36.640 --> 1:41:38.880 just being like, well, this is his heritage, so this 1:41:38.920 --> 1:41:40.640 is going to be the whole character, and we're going 1:41:40.720 --> 1:41:42.600 to write it in the way like we're going to 1:41:42.680 --> 1:41:44.960 write him for a white audience. 1:41:45.200 --> 1:41:47.680 Yeah, the most trophy way possible. 1:41:48.160 --> 1:41:49.439 And it would have been cool, Like it would been 1:41:49.479 --> 1:41:51.640 cool if Joe Nolan was cast in a role that 1:41:51.840 --> 1:41:55.000 was not that like was just like he could have 1:41:55.040 --> 1:41:57.360 played a he could be a guy on that team, 1:41:57.680 --> 1:42:00.080 but just it's obviously racist the way. 1:42:00.600 --> 1:42:04.080 Right with more than fifteen seconds of screen time, you know. 1:42:05.600 --> 1:42:08.439 I also this is like separate, but I learned about 1:42:08.439 --> 1:42:10.840 it on my trip at the Hockey Hall of Fame, 1:42:11.000 --> 1:42:14.120 so I wanted to mention it and we can link 1:42:14.160 --> 1:42:17.439 it in the description of this episode. But just the 1:42:17.520 --> 1:42:21.400 history of Native American and First Nations players within hockey, 1:42:21.479 --> 1:42:25.599 there's a lot to be discussed and learned about where 1:42:25.640 --> 1:42:28.960 there are still a number of I mean like, there 1:42:28.960 --> 1:42:33.280 are a number of Native players in professional hockey today, 1:42:33.920 --> 1:42:38.400 but there's also a history of hockey in reservation schools, 1:42:38.560 --> 1:42:41.519 and hockey has a role in Canadian reservation schools. There's 1:42:41.520 --> 1:42:43.280 been a lot written about it in the last couple 1:42:43.280 --> 1:42:47.240 of years that I think is very relevant to what 1:42:47.240 --> 1:42:50.439 we're talking about, very interesting, and especially when this Jo 1:42:50.520 --> 1:42:52.719 Nolan character came up, it was like, oh, there's actually 1:42:52.800 --> 1:42:56.920 a lot of troubling and like relevant Indigenous history within 1:42:57.160 --> 1:43:02.000 hockey that if you're interested, we can link a piece 1:43:02.040 --> 1:43:04.720 that I read below and I learned about it. I 1:43:04.760 --> 1:43:06.840 don't know why I keep plugging the Hontey muse. I 1:43:06.840 --> 1:43:10.559 thought it was really interesting and we'll link it. 1:43:10.800 --> 1:43:11.120 Yes. 1:43:11.400 --> 1:43:14.920 Indeed, ironically, I have never been to the Hockey Hall 1:43:14.960 --> 1:43:15.280 of Fame. 1:43:15.520 --> 1:43:18.120 I know, it's just like texting you pictures the whole time. 1:43:18.439 --> 1:43:19.439 Where is it Toronto? 1:43:19.680 --> 1:43:22.320 Yes, in Toronto, the Hockey Hall of Fame. I saw 1:43:22.360 --> 1:43:24.640 the Stanley Cup from a healthy distance, and then I 1:43:24.640 --> 1:43:27.320 did not pay ten dollars to have a picture taken 1:43:27.360 --> 1:43:27.920 next to it. 1:43:28.400 --> 1:43:28.679 Nice. 1:43:28.840 --> 1:43:30.599 Nice, I took a picture of it from far away. 1:43:31.320 --> 1:43:35.640 Does anyone have anything else they'd like to discuss? 1:43:36.160 --> 1:43:40.880 Well, just because I did all the research on the 1:43:40.960 --> 1:43:42.840 one of the interesting things, I mean, the people who 1:43:42.880 --> 1:43:46.160 know this movie would be very frustrated. It was like, 1:43:46.200 --> 1:43:48.959 how could you not talk about? You know? The interesting 1:43:49.360 --> 1:43:53.400 things to me are that there really were Like so 1:43:53.439 --> 1:43:58.439 the three Hansome brothers. There really were three brothers on 1:43:58.479 --> 1:44:03.240 that Johnstown team. Their last name was Carlson. They were 1:44:03.280 --> 1:44:06.240 all supposed to be in the movie. One of them 1:44:06.280 --> 1:44:09.840 got called up to a better team, so they had 1:44:09.880 --> 1:44:13.880 to replace him with somebody who looked similar. His last 1:44:13.920 --> 1:44:17.680 name was Hanson, and that's that's how they named the 1:44:17.800 --> 1:44:20.599 three the Hansons. But god, it just there's a there's 1:44:20.640 --> 1:44:24.280 a lot of little interesting things there the one character 1:44:24.439 --> 1:44:29.360 that he's like, I want to collect that bounty. Who 1:44:29.439 --> 1:44:32.360 is another person that Regg Dunlop you know, manipulates because 1:44:32.360 --> 1:44:34.920 he's you know, kind of like a peacenik and a 1:44:35.000 --> 1:44:37.240 meditator and everything like that, And all of a sudden 1:44:37.320 --> 1:44:42.680 he becomes Dave Killer Carlson. Well, Dave Killer Carlson was 1:44:42.720 --> 1:44:46.800 a real player, and he replaced the Hanson that had 1:44:46.800 --> 1:44:50.080 to leave. It's just there's a lot of funny things 1:44:50.120 --> 1:44:52.519 in there. So he thought he was going to get 1:44:52.520 --> 1:44:55.680 to play himself, but instead he had to be a 1:44:56.280 --> 1:44:59.680 you know, become like a surrogate brother and be in 1:44:59.680 --> 1:45:03.880 a movie where someone played him. My last favorite thing is, 1:45:05.000 --> 1:45:09.880 you know, I'm no actor, but throughout the movie there 1:45:09.880 --> 1:45:13.760 are references made to this player that everybody's fearful of, 1:45:13.840 --> 1:45:18.720 you know, Ogie Oglethorpe. Right, Yes, Ogie finally shows up 1:45:18.760 --> 1:45:22.640 in that last game, never says a word, scowling at 1:45:22.640 --> 1:45:26.280 everybody in that scene, scowling and then fighting. That is 1:45:26.360 --> 1:45:30.080 Ned Dowd, whose sister wrote the movie. 1:45:30.240 --> 1:45:32.040 Oh okay, Nancy Dowd's brother. 1:45:32.360 --> 1:45:36.160 Yes, so Ogie is you know, but I mean, I 1:45:36.280 --> 1:45:39.759 just that scene just cracks me up. Just the skating 1:45:39.840 --> 1:45:42.000 out with the you know, chewing the gum and looking 1:45:42.040 --> 1:45:45.560 either ways. You know, but for for that on a 1:45:45.640 --> 1:45:48.720 screen time, just you you know, to sell it, I'm like, 1:45:48.840 --> 1:45:50.559 all right, nice job guy, you know. 1:45:50.800 --> 1:45:53.439 Yeah, I mean I like I think that that's like 1:45:53.560 --> 1:45:56.839 just the I don't know element of just like how 1:45:57.320 --> 1:46:00.400 she did this sort of immersive approach to research and 1:46:00.479 --> 1:46:02.840 then seemed to include a lot of people that she'd 1:46:02.840 --> 1:46:05.439 come across or learned about in that research in the movie. 1:46:05.479 --> 1:46:08.560 Like that's I just I don't know, I think that's cool. 1:46:08.400 --> 1:46:10.479 You know, and you know, there are there are elements 1:46:10.479 --> 1:46:12.320 of truth in the two and then I'll stop talking about. 1:46:12.520 --> 1:46:17.920 You know, the Charlestown Chiefs slash Johnstown Jets that nineteen 1:46:18.000 --> 1:46:21.000 seventy seven season that concluded so they could make the movie. 1:46:21.800 --> 1:46:24.200 The Jets didn't go out of business, but their league folded. 1:46:24.560 --> 1:46:25.360 Oh oh okay, you. 1:46:25.360 --> 1:46:28.080 Know, so this this was a thing that was happening, 1:46:28.080 --> 1:46:30.080 and that league had only been around for four years. 1:46:30.360 --> 1:46:32.599 The other thing that's interesting is like, you know how 1:46:32.640 --> 1:46:35.679 outrageous it was that, like, why would anybody a hockey 1:46:35.680 --> 1:46:39.120 team in Florida? Well, you know, there are professional hockey 1:46:39.160 --> 1:46:41.240 teams in Florida now and it's you know, it's gone 1:46:41.240 --> 1:46:43.080 pretty well in a couple of the places. 1:46:43.080 --> 1:46:46.360 So yeah, well, I guess that's the last thing I 1:46:46.400 --> 1:46:50.120 wanted to say was that I appreciated that the movie 1:46:50.160 --> 1:46:52.680 went out of its way to connect the struggle of 1:46:52.680 --> 1:46:55.760 this hockey team to what was going on in their community, 1:46:56.240 --> 1:46:59.640 and how like it was just like acknowledging I don't know, 1:46:59.640 --> 1:47:02.400 I felt like because it was done off of this 1:47:02.520 --> 1:47:06.439 very specific reporting in this region or this research I 1:47:06.439 --> 1:47:10.920 guess in this region, it like does reflect the socioeconomic 1:47:10.960 --> 1:47:15.280 problems in the Pittsburgh area in the late seventies and 1:47:15.320 --> 1:47:17.559 connects it to this hockey team in a way that feels, 1:47:18.240 --> 1:47:20.200 I don't know, like class conscious, in a way that 1:47:20.280 --> 1:47:23.679 a lot of sports MOVI fees either aren't or feel 1:47:23.760 --> 1:47:27.920 like overly sort of melodramatic about. It. Just felt like 1:47:27.960 --> 1:47:31.200 it fit very cleanly into this world, and like not 1:47:31.320 --> 1:47:34.080 only like it wasn't like the town and the team 1:47:34.479 --> 1:47:36.400 because it was a minor league team. The team is 1:47:36.400 --> 1:47:38.080 a part of the town and so they're all sort 1:47:38.120 --> 1:47:41.639 of sharing the same kind of issues, right. 1:47:41.920 --> 1:47:46.479 Yeah, that and we you know, we're talking about this earlier. 1:47:46.680 --> 1:47:50.760 But how Reggie like does a bunch of you know, 1:47:50.800 --> 1:47:55.479 it's like desperate times call for desperate measures, and under capitalism, 1:47:56.000 --> 1:48:00.120 when you know your livelihood is being threatened, a lot 1:48:00.160 --> 1:48:03.000 of people do have to act out of desperation and 1:48:03.400 --> 1:48:08.559 do things that they would maybe not otherwise do to survive. 1:48:09.080 --> 1:48:13.160 But and so and that manifests in Reggie as like 1:48:13.360 --> 1:48:17.720 manipulating people in a way that's like extremely harmful. So 1:48:17.720 --> 1:48:21.200 I guess my point is, like you can do things 1:48:21.240 --> 1:48:27.160 out of desperation because capitalism is killing us all without 1:48:27.240 --> 1:48:31.320 also being extremely homophobic and you know all the other 1:48:31.360 --> 1:48:34.000 things that he does, Like it would be one thing 1:48:34.040 --> 1:48:37.000 if all he did was just like lie to his 1:48:37.160 --> 1:48:41.800 team and like plant that story in the sports writer 1:48:41.880 --> 1:48:45.559 to be like I heard we were getting bought by Florida. 1:48:45.600 --> 1:48:48.760 And if he tells his team this and his objective 1:48:48.840 --> 1:48:51.080 is just to get morale up so that they can 1:48:51.160 --> 1:48:54.160 win and like actually maybe have a shot, Like I 1:48:54.160 --> 1:48:56.880 wouldn't have any problem with that really because it's like 1:48:56.920 --> 1:49:00.200 a not a not a diabolical. 1:48:59.560 --> 1:49:01.320 Lie, it's a victimless crime. 1:49:01.760 --> 1:49:05.880 Yeah, But the fact that he's doing that, plus all 1:49:06.000 --> 1:49:12.479 manner of like blackmailing, homophobia, outing people, all this stuff 1:49:12.560 --> 1:49:15.839 like that's where I can't. 1:49:16.640 --> 1:49:19.439 Yeah, so you're not just gonna call him over that 1:49:19.520 --> 1:49:27.200 old rascal red chunk today. 1:49:27.320 --> 1:49:33.000 So okay, let's get through it. I this movie does 1:49:34.400 --> 1:49:35.320 it does well. 1:49:35.680 --> 1:49:38.400 I was so surprised to hear yeah. 1:49:38.600 --> 1:49:40.640 He kept checking with me to make sure that, and 1:49:40.680 --> 1:49:43.680 he was like, wait, what so it doesn't Well, it's 1:49:43.720 --> 1:49:46.800 a flawed metric. It doesn't. Just because it passes doesn't 1:49:46.800 --> 1:49:47.960 mean it's a feminist movie. 1:49:49.240 --> 1:49:54.960 Because Lily and Francine talk about Lily's hair and cheekbones. 1:49:54.560 --> 1:49:58.920 And share and they mentioned share, and then there's the 1:49:58.960 --> 1:50:02.280 other scene where it's Lily and then the two other 1:50:02.320 --> 1:50:05.280 women who I don't think have names, So by that 1:50:05.880 --> 1:50:07.240 caveat it would not pass. 1:50:07.320 --> 1:50:11.320 But they are talking about drinking alcohol and. 1:50:11.200 --> 1:50:13.160 They're talking about addiction problem. Yeah. 1:50:13.200 --> 1:50:18.000 Like yeah, so so it's by the scants teeth. 1:50:18.120 --> 1:50:21.080 But it does technically pass. And I feel like I 1:50:21.479 --> 1:50:23.960 want to I want to hand it to this movie 1:50:24.000 --> 1:50:27.320 as passing because of it feels like in many ways 1:50:27.320 --> 1:50:30.560 the odds are stacked against any sports movie about a 1:50:30.640 --> 1:50:34.479 men's demon passing. I was really surprised that it technically passes. 1:50:35.120 --> 1:50:36.920 I mean, if I can. I mean, when I thought 1:50:36.920 --> 1:50:39.960 about it in the you know, you know the theme 1:50:40.040 --> 1:50:42.760 of your cast. I really just thought that this was 1:50:42.800 --> 1:50:46.479 a movie that you know, crass and guys and thee 1:50:46.800 --> 1:50:50.600 but that the women kind of like stuck up for 1:50:50.680 --> 1:50:54.800 each other helped each other, didn't always. I mean, France 1:50:54.840 --> 1:50:57.599 scene's great. I mean she tells them like right off 1:50:57.600 --> 1:50:59.280 the bad one of their first scenes, like you know, 1:50:59.400 --> 1:51:03.200 you're terrible coaches teams state you know. I mean, yeah, 1:51:03.320 --> 1:51:09.400 she does it right, you know, so and and you know, 1:51:09.520 --> 1:51:12.080 and I love, like I said, I love most of 1:51:12.080 --> 1:51:14.720 the last scene. I still can't figure out, you know, 1:51:14.800 --> 1:51:20.040 how Lily and Ned end up together. And I agree 1:51:20.040 --> 1:51:22.160 with you caitle. And I thought that that the scene 1:51:22.160 --> 1:51:24.360 with Franccene was going to empower her to really go 1:51:24.600 --> 1:51:28.120 but you know, the fran scene, you know, goes her 1:51:28.160 --> 1:51:30.840 own way. I mean it's just, you know, it's sort 1:51:30.840 --> 1:51:34.840 of her own path because she you know, cuts through, 1:51:35.200 --> 1:51:37.439 cuts through the parade and goes down the you know, 1:51:37.560 --> 1:51:40.479 down the road by herself. I just thought it was, 1:51:41.040 --> 1:51:43.519 you know, that that was an element to the movie 1:51:43.600 --> 1:51:47.360 that shouldn't really you know, be overlooked for sure. 1:51:47.439 --> 1:51:50.160 Yeah, I mean yeah, and I do think for especially 1:51:50.160 --> 1:51:53.360 for its time and also for this genre even now 1:51:53.520 --> 1:51:57.639 it is like unusual for women to be included. Also, 1:51:57.680 --> 1:52:01.320 as much as I hate ned, he was in Twin Peaks, 1:52:01.640 --> 1:52:02.639 so that's kind of fun. 1:52:03.120 --> 1:52:05.920 He played hockey at the University of New Hampshire as. 1:52:05.800 --> 1:52:08.760 Well, and we can't take that from them either, of course. 1:52:09.160 --> 1:52:11.360 And it's big time hockey, oh is it? 1:52:11.720 --> 1:52:14.360 Yes? See? Okay, now I'm nice. Sound like an asshole. 1:52:15.200 --> 1:52:19.519 I didn't know that. This movie surprised me in ways 1:52:19.520 --> 1:52:20.439 I wasn't expecting it to. 1:52:21.240 --> 1:52:22.759 But but we should. 1:52:22.800 --> 1:52:24.840 We should talk about the most important metric on the 1:52:24.840 --> 1:52:27.280 face of the planet, which is our nipple scale. 1:52:27.360 --> 1:52:30.639 Yes, a scale of zero to five nipples in which 1:52:30.680 --> 1:52:33.839 we rate the movie. That's true, you heard. 1:52:34.080 --> 1:52:35.880 Yes, we need to break it down zero to. 1:52:35.880 --> 1:52:40.920 Five nipples, rating the movie based on examining it through 1:52:41.080 --> 1:52:46.400 an intersectional feminist lens. Yeah, I'll give this movie one 1:52:47.240 --> 1:52:56.120 nipple for it's a handful of female characters who, obviously 1:52:56.120 --> 1:52:58.080 I wish the movie had done a lot more with 1:52:58.760 --> 1:53:03.400 given more just real estate and the story to Susanne 1:53:03.400 --> 1:53:07.639 only being there so that her situation could be used 1:53:07.720 --> 1:53:12.080 as ammunition against her husband is obviously gross. But if 1:53:12.080 --> 1:53:15.439 she had been a more meaningful character. So I guess 1:53:15.439 --> 1:53:18.280 I'm giving it one nipple for the potential that the 1:53:18.320 --> 1:53:23.479 movie mostly squandered. I do appreciate that Francine stands her 1:53:23.520 --> 1:53:28.120 ground in not being willing to get back together with 1:53:28.240 --> 1:53:32.000 her shitty husband. I agree that like most movies would 1:53:32.000 --> 1:53:35.559 have like framed her as like the he's trying, he's trying, 1:53:35.640 --> 1:53:38.479 and at the end he finally gets her back and 1:53:38.520 --> 1:53:42.960 she's the other trophy he wins. But this movie doesn't 1:53:43.000 --> 1:53:48.360 do that, and that does count for something. Wow, the 1:53:48.400 --> 1:53:54.000 bar is so low, but everything else the movie does 1:53:54.040 --> 1:53:59.000 as far as it's just like rampant homophobia, ablest slurs 1:53:59.080 --> 1:54:05.560 are getting around casually, the treatment of the one indigenous 1:54:05.600 --> 1:54:09.200 character that we see on screen, all that kind of stuff. 1:54:09.640 --> 1:54:13.920 If anyone is looking for a movie that features mostly 1:54:14.080 --> 1:54:20.120 men that is about men who are affected by a 1:54:20.160 --> 1:54:25.320 steel mill closing, might I recommend The Full Monty because 1:54:25.320 --> 1:54:30.880 it handles themes of toxic masculinity and things like that 1:54:30.960 --> 1:54:34.920 in a much more thoughtful way. I would say, not 1:54:34.960 --> 1:54:39.320 about hockey, though it is about men stripping, although wow, 1:54:39.400 --> 1:54:43.720 similar ending because we go slapshot does end in a 1:54:43.800 --> 1:54:49.400 strip tease. So anyway, I I'm glad. I guess that 1:54:49.600 --> 1:54:52.120 this movie, at least for like Jamie yours and my 1:54:52.400 --> 1:54:56.320 generation and younger generations, it is not something that most 1:54:56.320 --> 1:54:59.080 people are super aware of. It has not like it 1:54:59.120 --> 1:55:02.160 hasn't ended up. Is like this like piece of classic 1:55:02.240 --> 1:55:06.520 Hollywood cinema that you must revisit. It's it doesn't have 1:55:06.640 --> 1:55:09.560 much of a lasting legacy in that way. 1:55:09.720 --> 1:55:12.120 Well, I mean except for hockey fans, where it's not 1:55:12.160 --> 1:55:14.640 a massive leg like in a niche way. It has 1:55:14.680 --> 1:55:17.120 a huge legacy in the general way, not as. 1:55:17.040 --> 1:55:22.560 Much true true. Yeah, So one nipple and I will 1:55:22.640 --> 1:55:25.080 give it to my favorite character, fran Scene. 1:55:25.880 --> 1:55:28.400 I'm gonna give this movie to Nipples because it's my 1:55:28.440 --> 1:55:32.400 birthday and I know, but I do think that like 1:55:33.120 --> 1:55:35.520 I agree with I mean, we've talked about it at 1:55:35.600 --> 1:55:40.120 length now where this movie is not generous in so 1:55:40.160 --> 1:55:44.040 many ways. It is wildly homophobic the one native character 1:55:44.160 --> 1:55:47.560 it represents, which is also I think that Joe Nolan 1:55:47.720 --> 1:55:50.440 is the only non white character who really appears in 1:55:50.440 --> 1:55:54.000 this movie meaningfully in any way. Yeah, which again is 1:55:54.400 --> 1:55:57.040 not necessary, especially because of the region you're in. It, Like, 1:55:57.080 --> 1:55:59.880 there's plenty of diversity to be found in this region. 1:56:00.080 --> 1:56:02.800 I know that hockey is predominantly a white sport, but 1:56:02.840 --> 1:56:04.680 it's a movie. You can do whatever the fuck you want. 1:56:05.360 --> 1:56:09.360 But I do think that this movie is I don't know, 1:56:09.400 --> 1:56:13.600 I mean a sports comedy in the seventies. Having women 1:56:13.680 --> 1:56:16.520 included it at all feels kind of like a miracle 1:56:16.520 --> 1:56:19.600 to me. And having a successful sports movie written by 1:56:19.680 --> 1:56:21.800 a woman feels kind of like a miracle to me 1:56:21.920 --> 1:56:24.640 for this era. And so I want. 1:56:24.440 --> 1:56:27.200 To miracle another hockey movie. 1:56:27.680 --> 1:56:29.720 Hate it, but that's like the exact kind of corny 1:56:29.760 --> 1:56:32.080 ass movie I'm talking about where all the girls are 1:56:32.120 --> 1:56:35.160 like you've got this baby, and you're like, oh my god. Like, 1:56:35.760 --> 1:56:39.680 I do think that this movie has incredible fault. It's 1:56:39.680 --> 1:56:41.880 like at the end because because we've talked about so 1:56:41.960 --> 1:56:45.400 many broad comedies on this show, and all of the 1:56:45.440 --> 1:56:48.320 swings are huge, and when they hit, they hit, and 1:56:48.320 --> 1:56:51.680 when they're bad, they're awful. They're almost worse than you 1:56:51.680 --> 1:56:54.440 can find in any genre, right, And I think the 1:56:54.520 --> 1:56:57.280 same is true in horror or like any like broad 1:56:57.440 --> 1:57:00.520 niche genre that tends to be true. And so this 1:57:00.560 --> 1:57:03.879 movie is wildly dated. I understand why it is not popular. 1:57:03.960 --> 1:57:07.080 We watched. I'm not even recommending it really. I just 1:57:07.160 --> 1:57:11.560 was surprised by the fact that women were presented in 1:57:12.240 --> 1:57:14.600 uh for the most part, in empathetic way, even though 1:57:14.600 --> 1:57:19.040 I did not agree with how everyone everyone's arc was resolved. 1:57:19.600 --> 1:57:22.920 So I'm gonna go too, and I'm gonna give one 1:57:23.040 --> 1:57:25.960 freent scene because she rocks, and one to Lily because 1:57:26.000 --> 1:57:28.920 she deserved better. And I hope that she you know, 1:57:29.320 --> 1:57:31.320 divorced ned six months later or whatever. 1:57:31.520 --> 1:57:32.440 Fingers crossed? 1:57:32.920 --> 1:57:34.680 Dad, what would you give this movie? 1:57:35.200 --> 1:57:35.520 Oh? 1:57:35.560 --> 1:57:39.840 Based on his portrayal of women intersectionally. 1:57:39.400 --> 1:57:41.840 Boy, I have to I have to do this. I'm 1:57:41.840 --> 1:57:43.480 not I'm not trained. I'm not sure. 1:57:44.800 --> 1:57:46.520 Whatever feels right in your heart. 1:57:46.760 --> 1:57:56.680 Yes, I guess two just because too, because nipples. Well, no, 1:57:56.840 --> 1:57:59.920 just because too. And I have to pick character. 1:58:00.480 --> 1:58:03.640 You can do you can distribute them or you can 1:58:03.720 --> 1:58:05.360 keep them, whatever you want to do. 1:58:05.600 --> 1:58:08.960 I mean, I like, I don't know, I just like, 1:58:09.040 --> 1:58:12.000 for inscene is A is a great character, you know, 1:58:12.120 --> 1:58:14.680 I mean, I like that part of you know how 1:58:14.680 --> 1:58:16.920 she's like. You know, I don't care if you you know, 1:58:17.040 --> 1:58:19.080 I know you, you know, I know you as a person, 1:58:19.120 --> 1:58:21.280 and you know you know you might be able to 1:58:21.320 --> 1:58:24.240 fool everybody else, you know, but you can't fool me 1:58:24.280 --> 1:58:26.480 anymore and goes to run a way and you know again, 1:58:26.520 --> 1:58:30.320 missus missus Hanrahan. I never remember her first. I just 1:58:30.400 --> 1:58:34.160 think that's a touching kind of a but that's that's 1:58:34.200 --> 1:58:38.520 a you know, that's quite a scene with her, and 1:58:38.560 --> 1:58:42.720 it's it's serious and funny, and I just really thought 1:58:42.760 --> 1:58:45.040 that that was a you know, probably back in the 1:58:45.120 --> 1:58:47.920 day it was like, oh, that's a gratuitous thing, you know, 1:58:48.320 --> 1:58:51.520 like look at this thing, but you know, look looked 1:58:51.560 --> 1:58:54.320 at now and her story and everything like that. I 1:58:54.360 --> 1:58:57.320 think that's you know, I don't know what to say. 1:58:57.360 --> 1:58:59.120 I can't say that I think that's great, but you 1:58:59.160 --> 1:59:02.000 know it, I mean, it's just one that like sticks 1:59:02.480 --> 1:59:03.360 with me anyway. 1:59:03.760 --> 1:59:05.240 I know what you mean. It would be a fine 1:59:05.280 --> 1:59:10.160 scene if the thing that happens after it didn't happen exactly. 1:59:09.800 --> 1:59:11.760 Right, right. That's why it's like this movie is just 1:59:11.800 --> 1:59:14.480 like frustrating in that way where you're like, wow, this 1:59:14.520 --> 1:59:17.560 is representation or like a character you would not normally 1:59:17.560 --> 1:59:19.720 see in a broad comedy, but then they're treated so 1:59:19.800 --> 1:59:22.880 poorly that you're like, well, why why did you go 1:59:23.040 --> 1:59:26.240 out of your way to do that? If you were 1:59:26.280 --> 1:59:28.520 just going to treat them as a plot point and 1:59:28.560 --> 1:59:31.360 never showed them again, which I think is also inherent 1:59:31.400 --> 1:59:34.040 to this genre in the ways that I don't know. 1:59:34.080 --> 1:59:36.280 I found it especially frustrating too, because it's like I 1:59:36.280 --> 1:59:40.640 thought Suzanne was in the one scene she had was 1:59:40.960 --> 1:59:45.640 presented with empathy and she was cool, and it was like, oh, 1:59:45.720 --> 1:59:47.920 this is really and then like we were talking about, 1:59:48.080 --> 1:59:51.520 like she's treated horrifically and we never get to see 1:59:51.560 --> 1:59:53.080 her again. We don't know what happens to her, and 1:59:53.120 --> 1:59:54.880 the movie doesn't really seem to have interest in it 1:59:54.920 --> 1:59:58.200 because she was ultimately just a plot point to get 1:59:58.800 --> 2:00:00.480 read to the next step. 2:00:00.600 --> 2:00:01.120 Yeah. 2:00:01.160 --> 2:00:05.360 So a complicated, a more complicated movie than I was expecting. 2:00:06.160 --> 2:00:07.880 And I'm glad we talked about it. 2:00:08.160 --> 2:00:11.640 Yes, indeed, and thanks for joining us, sad mister Mike. 2:00:11.920 --> 2:00:14.200 Oh hey, thanks for having me along. 2:00:14.640 --> 2:00:17.640 Happy to do it. Uh yeah, do you have anything 2:00:17.680 --> 2:00:18.440 you want to plug? 2:00:18.920 --> 2:00:20.600 Yeah? Where can people follow you on Twitter? 2:00:20.760 --> 2:00:23.200 I don't have us. There's no need to follow me 2:00:23.240 --> 2:00:26.800 on Twitter. My uh, my days are done. My days 2:00:26.800 --> 2:00:30.480 of mouthing off and I just uh, you know, which, 2:00:30.520 --> 2:00:32.680 I didn't do that much. I was not I was 2:00:32.680 --> 2:00:35.680 not the King of the hot takes, and now I 2:00:35.680 --> 2:00:37.960 am the king of the silent take. I'll just I'll 2:00:38.000 --> 2:00:41.840 just read along with you all nice. Well, well you 2:00:41.840 --> 2:00:44.200 know I could I could plug this, you know, this 2:00:44.200 --> 2:00:46.920 this podcast a certain book about hot dogs. You know, 2:00:47.360 --> 2:00:48.560 there's always something, but. 2:00:49.200 --> 2:00:53.440 Simply just google book about hot dogs. Yeah all right, 2:00:53.480 --> 2:00:57.760 Well well Dad, I really thank you for for coming 2:00:57.800 --> 2:00:58.320 on the show. 2:00:58.880 --> 2:01:02.879 And I really can believe you let us. You badgered 2:01:03.000 --> 2:01:04.000 us into doing this. 2:01:04.840 --> 2:01:07.480 I'm so glad we did though I don't know. It's 2:01:07.520 --> 2:01:10.320 my birthday. I'm a dictator and I get to do 2:01:10.400 --> 2:01:11.200 whatever I want. 2:01:11.320 --> 2:01:12.760 Yeah, happy birthday, Jamie. 2:01:13.160 --> 2:01:14.680 Thank you. This was a way to go. 2:01:14.920 --> 2:01:16.200 Jam Happy birthday. 2:01:16.520 --> 2:01:21.600 I remember he remembered it, and that's no I this 2:01:21.800 --> 2:01:24.680 this episode was very special to me, both of you. 2:01:25.000 --> 2:01:27.840 So thank you. I appreciate it, and I'm really glad 2:01:27.840 --> 2:01:31.080 we got to do it. Love you, Jamie, love you too. 2:01:31.320 --> 2:01:32.800 Way to go, Way to go team. 2:01:33.200 --> 2:01:33.600 We did it. 2:01:33.800 --> 2:01:36.720 We won, We won the championship game. 2:01:36.520 --> 2:01:39.880 We won. We randomly did a strip tease and somehow 2:01:39.880 --> 2:01:41.400 we want. 2:01:40.120 --> 2:01:44.120 To there the best podcast in the Federal League. 2:01:44.440 --> 2:01:47.320 Yeah. Yeah, we are kind of and I say this 2:01:47.360 --> 2:01:49.640 with love, we are kind of a minor league podcast, 2:01:49.880 --> 2:01:53.800 and yet our fan base is intense and they fill 2:01:53.880 --> 2:01:57.960 the stand and we appreciate that we do because to 2:01:57.960 --> 2:02:00.600 be a big podcast you have to talk about murder 2:02:00.640 --> 2:02:02.680 in a dishonest way, and we don't do that. We 2:02:02.720 --> 2:02:04.480 don't want to we do, or you have to be 2:02:04.560 --> 2:02:07.280 like a fascist, so it's fine, or you have to 2:02:07.320 --> 2:02:10.520 be I know a lot about sports and we don't. 2:02:10.600 --> 2:02:14.400 We clearly demonstrated that today that we do not know. 2:02:14.760 --> 2:02:17.360 Yeah, if there was any reason that now you know 2:02:17.440 --> 2:02:19.120 both did you both did? 2:02:19.200 --> 2:02:19.480 Great? 2:02:19.840 --> 2:02:24.040 Thank you, thanks so much. You can find us on. 2:02:25.520 --> 2:02:29.400 No we are nothing without the validation of men. 2:02:29.480 --> 2:02:31.560 It's true of dad. 2:02:33.960 --> 2:02:35.160 Oh no, it's so hard. 2:02:35.320 --> 2:02:40.320 I only I only he's crying, he's crying. There. You 2:02:40.320 --> 2:02:43.520 can find us online up at Bechdel Cast on Instagram 2:02:43.600 --> 2:02:46.640 and Twitter. You can sign up for Patreon aka Patreon, 2:02:47.120 --> 2:02:50.280 patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast, where you get two 2:02:50.320 --> 2:02:54.920 bonus episodes every month for mere five dollars and also 2:02:55.000 --> 2:02:57.880 get access to about one hundred and fifty episodes of 2:02:57.960 --> 2:03:01.720 back catalog on the Patreon. Wow and it's my birthday 2:03:01.720 --> 2:03:05.240 over there this month too. We really value birthdays on 2:03:05.280 --> 2:03:08.480 this podcast, so that's true, we'll be covering Little Shop 2:03:08.520 --> 2:03:11.960 of Horrors and a second one that on the day 2:03:12.000 --> 2:03:14.800 of this recording. I've not yet decided my second evil 2:03:14.880 --> 2:03:17.600 pick for the Patreon, but oh I will think of 2:03:17.640 --> 2:03:20.560 something and it will be annoying. So head over there 2:03:20.760 --> 2:03:21.000 for that. 2:03:21.120 --> 2:03:23.880 And Caitlin, when it comes happy birthday to YouTube, Thank 2:03:23.920 --> 2:03:24.760 you so much. 2:03:25.480 --> 2:03:29.320 It will be in about eight months. 2:03:29.240 --> 2:03:31.760 Okay something like that, so just keep that in mind. 2:03:32.160 --> 2:03:34.240 It's coming. I don't want to miss out my chance. 2:03:34.320 --> 2:03:37.800 Thank you so much. And you can also get our 2:03:37.880 --> 2:03:41.760 merch at teapublic dot com slash the Bechdel Cast for 2:03:42.280 --> 2:03:48.280 our glorious items available for purchase at any time. 2:03:48.920 --> 2:03:52.560 And with that, why don't we get on this local 2:03:52.720 --> 2:03:56.840 parade float and lie about our wives leaving us. 2:03:57.440 --> 2:03:58.320 Let's do it. 2:03:59.000 --> 2:04:00.160 Bye bye, ay,