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Speaker 1: On the Bechde Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zephim fast start

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Speaker 1: changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: Happy Birthday, Jamie.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Boom, slam, punch.

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Speaker 2: Slap, inside shot.

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Speaker 1: Divorce, so many themes.

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Speaker 3: Homophobia, so many themes.

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Speaker 1: Pittsburgh, mm hmm. I was really excited that this movie

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Speaker 1: took place. I was like, I was like, where is

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Speaker 1: Kaitlyn going to connect with this movie. There's got to

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Speaker 1: be somewhere. I was like, Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 2: It's the Pennsylvania Connection.

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Speaker 1: So okay, Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is

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Speaker 1: Jamie Laftus.

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Speaker 2: My name is Caitlin Derante, and this is our show

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Speaker 2: where we analyze movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using

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Speaker 2: the Bechdel Test simply as a jumping off point to

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Speaker 2: initiate much larger, much grander conversations.

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Speaker 1: It's true, and the Bechdel Test, of course, is a

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Speaker 1: media metric created by Alice and Bechdel as a joke

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Speaker 1: as a goof back in the eighties in her comic

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Speaker 1: Likes to watch out for. It started as just a

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Speaker 1: one off joke, but has since become a way to

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Speaker 1: talk about how and if women are represented in movies

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Speaker 1: and people of marginalized genders in general. A lot of

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Speaker 1: versions of the test. The version of the test that

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Speaker 1: we observe to start our conversation is the test requires

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Speaker 1: that there be two characters with names of a marginalized

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Speaker 1: gender talking about something other than men for two lines

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Speaker 1: of dialogue.

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Speaker 2: Or more or more, preferably more often but not. It

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Speaker 2: doesn't happen that way usually.

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Speaker 1: But there's so much to talk about. It's not the

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Speaker 1: b L and end all of any movie. And today

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Speaker 1: it's it comes but twice a year, a birthday episode

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Speaker 1: where Caitlin and I really get to go absolutely hogwild

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Speaker 1: on on our on our choice of movie, on our

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Speaker 1: choice of guest. It's a fun time. And this has

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Speaker 1: been an episode that has been it's not an episode

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Speaker 1: that's ever been. It's been requested by one person. It's

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Speaker 1: no coincidence of that person's sorry guest. Yeah, but I

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Speaker 1: would say it's been well, Dad, what do you how

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Speaker 1: long have you been asking me about This's been a

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Speaker 1: couple of years.

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Speaker 4: Well, how long have you had the show seven years now,

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Speaker 4: it hasn't been seven years.

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Speaker 1: I would say at least four years.

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Speaker 4: Well, we've talked about this, I mean in your other

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Speaker 4: podcast life when you did the Kathy podcast. You know,

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Speaker 4: it was a it was a thought that I had that,

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Speaker 4: you know, there was this comic. It wasn't for everybody,

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Speaker 4: but the more I thought about it, it was kind

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Speaker 4: of it was unique first time. You know, it was

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Speaker 4: like there really weren't in themic strips. You know, women

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Speaker 4: were moms or girlfriends, maybe teachers, but there was never

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Speaker 4: like a single business woman. So I tossed that to you,

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Speaker 4: and I guess in the case of slap Shot, you know,

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Speaker 4: I sort of was thinking of a Kathy thing too,

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Speaker 4: because you know, there are interesting to me, you know,

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Speaker 4: representations of women and their stories, and that's that's what

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Speaker 4: your cast is all about, you and Caitlin. So I thought, well,

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Speaker 4: you know, throw it out there and see what they think.

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Speaker 1: And here we are, and sure enough, we're doing it.

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Speaker 1: We're covering a slap shot and the guest you just

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Speaker 1: heard Alan Kitlyn usually introduced the guests, but they have

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Speaker 1: generously offered me the opportunity.

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Speaker 2: It's your time to shine.

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Speaker 1: Jamie, our guest today, is a former hockey writer, current

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Speaker 1: hockey fan. Has been covering hockey since the eighties, been

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Speaker 1: playing hockey since the seventies when the movie comes out.

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Speaker 1: He's also a proud father to two wonderful children, lifelong

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Speaker 1: Brocton residents, a Brockton legend. It's Mike loftis welcome. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the cast.

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Speaker 4: Dad, Welcome, Jamie. Good to see you, and good to

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Speaker 4: see you too, Caitlyn.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for listeners. I'm currently in Brockton at my

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Speaker 1: dad's house and he's he's downstairs with my equipment. I'm

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Speaker 1: upstairs with my phone. We've had a very professional setup.

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Speaker 1: It's like we're not even. But he did drive me

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Speaker 1: to Dunkin Donuts right before the episode, so that.

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Speaker 2: On you gotta have your birthday dunks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true, it's yeah, it's I'm feeling the birthday love.

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Speaker 1: I'm feeling thrilled about the birthday. So yeah, the my

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Speaker 1: memory of I don't remember when you first brought this

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Speaker 1: movie up to me for the Bechdel cast, but you

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Speaker 1: every time you're like, I think it would just be

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Speaker 1: like if I happen to be talking about work you'd

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Speaker 1: be like, you know, flap Shot is written by a

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Speaker 1: woman that was just kind of the pitch and it

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Speaker 1: stuck with me.

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Speaker 2: And you pitched it to me Jamie multiple times as well,

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Speaker 2: and I was it was yeah later, which.

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Speaker 1: To be fair, it's not a personal attack. That's how

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Speaker 1: most of our episodes end up happening. We think it

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Speaker 1: over for a good two years, and then eventually we

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Speaker 1: cover it. I feel like that has become kind of

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Speaker 1: our habit.

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Speaker 2: It's true.

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Speaker 1: Anyways, Yeah, we're covering slap Shot. It is a nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy seven film is directed by George roy Hill. It

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Speaker 1: is written by Nancy Dawd. It stars Paul Newman amongst

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Speaker 1: Caitlin Is Oh I learned this. I learned this as

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Speaker 1: wearying dad. Caitlyn's horny for Paul Newman, and he's very handsome.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. It's kind of the only thing I'm

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Speaker 2: going to be able to contribute to this episode. My

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Speaker 2: third for Paul Newman.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, unbelievable, focused on men that night, having discourse.

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Speaker 2: I'm just gonna be like Paul Newman, oh woo ga.

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Speaker 2: I don't like his character, but I very much enjoy

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Speaker 2: looking at his face.

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Speaker 1: Well, I guess, let's let's get into it. I guess, dad, Uh, well, actually,

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Speaker 1: let's get ours out of the way kill it. What's

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Speaker 1: your history with the movie slap Shot?

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Speaker 2: I only know about this movie because of the various

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Speaker 2: times Jamie, you've said, my dad wants to come on

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Speaker 2: the podcast and cover slap Shot, and okay, that is

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Speaker 2: the reason I know this movie exists, Jamie, what's yours?

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Speaker 1: I know this movie exists because my dad has told

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Speaker 1: me about it. But I also have we've had Hansen

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Speaker 1: brother glasses at the house for I remember where we

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Speaker 1: have like I think they're on the table next to you, Dad,

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Speaker 1: but they're like the Hanson brother like taped glasses. It's

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Speaker 1: it is like, that's the only part of this movie

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Speaker 1: that I really knew about. I had not watched it

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Speaker 1: until the other day to prepare for this episode, because

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Speaker 1: you know, I criminally have never been very into hockey,

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Speaker 1: and so it was not a movie that really appealed

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Speaker 1: to me. But I knew the Hanson brothers because they

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Speaker 1: are so ingratiated into hockey iconography that we have like

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Speaker 1: glasses that were given out at a game with the

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Speaker 1: tape in the middle and the hands and Brothers specifically

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Speaker 1: are very iconic in hockey culture. I think this movie

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Speaker 1: is too, but like more, I think the Handsome Brothers

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Speaker 1: are kind of the most enduring. Would is that right?

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Speaker 4: Would you say? Absolutely? I mean it's you know, you

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Speaker 4: brought us some other hockey movies last night. There aren't

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Speaker 4: a lot of them. Yeah, you know, there are a

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Speaker 4: lot of baseball and football and basketball movies. Hockey. I

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Speaker 4: think hockey fans of a certain age says it's slap shot,

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Speaker 4: and then you know, maybe another generation would be the

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Speaker 4: Mighty Ducks, and.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think we'd say more so than Mighty Ducks,

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Speaker 1: and then current current generation. I don't know if they

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Speaker 1: have a hockey movie.

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Speaker 4: I could tell you of a hockey movie, but the

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Speaker 4: good It's goon Yes.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I have heard of this one, Sean William Scott.

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Speaker 2: Isn't it?

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Speaker 4: If I'm not mistaken, I don't know actors that well,

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Speaker 4: but I think it is. I actually I know the

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Speaker 4: Gentleman that that film was based on. Okay, it's a

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Speaker 4: true story about a guy who and and the and

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Speaker 4: the movie does not really tell the story of the

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Speaker 4: actual person, but classic that was okay, he knew he

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Speaker 4: knew that was gonna happen, and he was. He was

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Speaker 4: alright with it.

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Speaker 1: You know, I hope they paid him well for the book.

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Speaker 4: Rights that might have happened.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, Slapshot has not been a huge part of

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Speaker 1: my life. But hockey certainly has grew up around hockey culture,

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Speaker 1: hockey ideas, hockey labor. Yeah, I have I like. I

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Speaker 1: like hockey, I think as much as someone who doesn't

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Speaker 1: follow it can.

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Speaker 2: I mean, missus Zamboni.

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Speaker 5: I have a Zamboni tattoo, and I didn't notice until

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Speaker 5: the end of the first movie the movie Slap Shot

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Speaker 5: zero Zamboni's Zamboni visibility at an all time low.

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Speaker 1: My favorite ice sports movie, as you know, is Ititania.

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Speaker 1: I love Itania. Not a single Zamboni in that one either,

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Speaker 1: What the hell?

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Speaker 4: I know, it's pretty and you know it's interesting to

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Speaker 4: me that, you know, when I sat down to watch

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Speaker 4: it again the other night, like and watch it in

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Speaker 4: a different way, I didn't realize it was it's a

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Speaker 4: two hour movie.

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Speaker 6: Yes it sure, it feels pretty long, so so you know,

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Speaker 6: there was plenty of time in there for you know, Zamboni,

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Speaker 6: tomfoolery and yet rueling Zamboni's.

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Speaker 4: Well even just a you know, I mean, I don't

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Speaker 4: know if we I don't know if this is the

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Speaker 4: part where we even bring in little things about the film,

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Speaker 4: but you know, little things, little things that the you know,

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Speaker 4: the team does to really really continue to whip people

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Speaker 4: in a frenzy, right like you know, parking an ambulance

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Speaker 4: outside of a game, you know, before it starts, you

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Speaker 4: couldn't have had somebody dress up crazy and just like

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Speaker 4: you know, drive the zamboni.

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Speaker 1: Naked person driving a Zamboni, Well, it's a perfect it's

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Speaker 1: a perfect runch comedy idea.

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Speaker 4: Okay, never mind, but you know, an oversight. I agree,

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Speaker 4: Jane good point.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I felt strongly about that. I feel like Zamboni's

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Speaker 1: are rarely included, to the point where I wonder if

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Speaker 1: the company simply objects to it because it just seems

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Speaker 1: like such an easy win. But they're a very kind

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Speaker 1: of flatigious Italian family, the Zamboni family, so I've heard

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Speaker 1: when I've tried to contact them. Sure, So I like hockey.

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Speaker 1: I'd never seen slapshot all the way through, and I

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Speaker 1: watched it twice to repair, once with my dad, once

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Speaker 1: without and I have I mean it's so weird because

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Speaker 1: I feel like the reason that I didn't like this

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Speaker 1: movie as much as I was hoping to just has

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Speaker 1: mostly to do with the fact that I historically don't

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Speaker 1: love like super raunchy comedies, like they just have never

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Speaker 1: really appealed to me. But the more that I learned

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Speaker 1: about the production of this movie, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: stuff to talk about. Certainly, a lot of it doesn't

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Speaker 1: age well. We were getting dinner with my aunt's last

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Speaker 1: night and my Annie Kate, my dad's sister. We've all

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Speaker 1: been hockey pilled over the years, and she's like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've seen Slap Shot. It's kind of hard to watch

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Speaker 1: now because it's long and a lot of it ages

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Speaker 1: really badly. And I was like, all right, so we're

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Speaker 1: all in the same page here. But it is interesting.

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Speaker 1: We don't cover a lot of movies from the seventies,

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Speaker 1: and I think for a movie that a lot of

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Speaker 1: it ages not well, there were more women in the

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Speaker 1: story than I was expecting. I think more women than

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Speaker 1: your average sports movie in general, I would agree, so

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Speaker 1: lots to talk about. Yeah, Dad, what's your history with

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Speaker 1: the movie Slap Shot? Do you remember when you first saw.

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Speaker 4: Well that it actually came out the year I graduated

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Speaker 4: high school, nice nineteen seventy seven, which is when I

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Speaker 4: was wrapping up my my super average career as a player.

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Speaker 1: Okay, give us the rundown. What position did you play? Generally?

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Speaker 4: I was a defense defenseman. One goal career statistics one goal,

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Speaker 4: one assist, multiple penalty minutes. Knee injuries, yes, one knee surgery,

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Speaker 4: one broken nose. Went from there to I coached youth

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Speaker 4: hockey with a buddy of mine for a couple of years.

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Speaker 4: That was fun.

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Speaker 1: Nice.

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Speaker 4: When I was in college, I started officiating games as

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Speaker 4: a way to make a few bucks, and then that

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Speaker 4: all dried up and I went into the the you know,

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Speaker 4: there was no future in any of that for me,

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Speaker 4: but I still just kind of couldn't quit the game

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Speaker 4: and love newspapers, loved the sports section, sports guy in

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Speaker 4: there I am, and like the you know, kind of

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Speaker 4: the teeth of the late seventies or when there's a

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Speaker 4: lot of people going into journalism because of like all

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Speaker 4: the president's men, and you know, everybody wants to be

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Speaker 4: a journalist.

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Speaker 2: Interesting movies are so influential that didn't.

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Speaker 1: Really feel like there was an uptick after all the presidents,

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Speaker 1: and that makes sense to me.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, definitely, because a person like me, who would

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Speaker 4: show up and say, yeah, I want to be a

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Speaker 4: sports writer, was like, what that doesn't count? What's wrong

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Speaker 4: with you? Yeah? So that's how that's kind of where

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Speaker 4: it comes from. And the interesting little side story is

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Speaker 4: the reason that I even played in the first place

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Speaker 4: was that when she was young, before she got married,

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Speaker 4: my mom was a huge hockey fan. She loved the Bruins.

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Speaker 4: I think she really liked the fights a lot. But

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Speaker 4: you know, she got married, she had three kids in

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Speaker 4: four years, and at around that time, the Bruins in Boston,

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Speaker 4: who had been terrible for a while, all of a

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Speaker 4: sudden they got very good. They had a great team

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Speaker 4: and a lot of personality, a lot of fun, and

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Speaker 4: she couldn't contain herself. She just she signed me up,

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Speaker 4: even though I told her I didn't want to play

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Speaker 4: so and you know, by the end of my first

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Speaker 4: season playing it was kind of all I wanted to do.

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Speaker 1: Nice.

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Speaker 4: So there's my is that dot Now. I don't think

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Speaker 4: my mom watched Slapshot with me, but but you know,

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Speaker 4: myself obviously and my my hockey friends. I mean you know,

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Speaker 4: certain aspects of that movie just from having played on

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Speaker 4: a team and everything like that just kind of, you know,

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Speaker 4: cracked us up.

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Speaker 1: And then just just for listener context, how long did

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Speaker 1: you work in sports journalism covering.

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Speaker 4: Hockey, specifically covering hockey. I would say I started like

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Speaker 4: in nineteen eighty nine. Halfway through that season, I became

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Speaker 4: like the full time you know, Bruins beat writer at

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Speaker 4: my paper. And I held that job through the twenty

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Speaker 4: nineteen twenty season, the last the bubble season, the pandemic season.

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Speaker 4: So it was a good It was like thirty something

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Speaker 4: years and I and also, you know, as my newspaper changed,

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Speaker 4: the industry changed, and I had to you know, I

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Speaker 4: always said the Bruins, but I found lots and lots

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Speaker 4: of other hockey stories to do. You know, here in

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Speaker 4: New England and the Boston area is so lots of

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Speaker 4: college stories, lots of stories about minor league players, you know,

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Speaker 4: draft picks we had, you know, coaches. And one of

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Speaker 4: the more interesting things was over my time was the

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Speaker 4: growth of like the women's hockey game, which I'm not

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Speaker 4: even sure it really existed when I started.

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Speaker 2: You know, I just realized I know nothing about it,

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Speaker 2: nor did I even realize there was a women's hockey league.

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Speaker 1: It's cool. I mean that that, you know, obviously, you

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Speaker 1: know a million times worry about it than me. But

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Speaker 1: when when I went to Toronto a couple of months

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Speaker 1: ago to do a show with your rock about I

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Speaker 1: went to the Hockey Hall of Fame, and it's like

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Speaker 1: this big, cool, sprawling museum that has exhibits on women's

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Speaker 1: hockey and on non white hockey leagues, and just like

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Speaker 1: all all of this cool. I don't know, you know,

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Speaker 1: it is definitely a predominantly white male sport, as our

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Speaker 1: most North American sports, but women's women's hockey leagues are

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Speaker 1: really really interesting, and I feel like there is I'm

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Speaker 1: kind of surprised that there isn't a movie about maybe.

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Speaker 1: I mean, listeners feel free to let us know if

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Speaker 1: there is one and we just don't know about it.

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Speaker 1: But I don't think I've ever seen like movie or

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Speaker 1: show explicitly about women's hockey, which feels weird. I feel

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Speaker 1: like there's movies about at least one movie about women's

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Speaker 1: sports in most major sports.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, but it was, I mean, it's around here,

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Speaker 4: and I guess, you know, in other places where hockey

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Speaker 4: is a thing. You know, the youth in high school

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Speaker 4: and college level. You know, women's hockey is a thing.

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Speaker 4: You know almost every almost everybody has a team now

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Speaker 4: in college. And the interesting thing to me was it

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Speaker 4: has struggled to really get off the ground and stay established.

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Speaker 4: But I will say, for like the last five or

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Speaker 4: six years has been a women's professional hockey league. You know,

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Speaker 4: where women you know, it's professional, they got paid to play.

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Speaker 4: As the twenty nineteen twenty twenty season was winding down

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Speaker 4: before everything shut down because of COVID, I always I

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Speaker 4: think about, how interesting is that the last athlete that

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Speaker 4: I interviewed face to face one on one was a

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Speaker 4: women's professional hockey player. Cool, which I thought was you know,

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Speaker 4: I didn't know it was going to be the last one.

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Speaker 4: I thought I would be going to work the next day.

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Speaker 1: But or you would have talked to a man.

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Speaker 4: No, I was there specifically to do that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, all right, you're killing it, everything's going great. No, No,

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Speaker 1: that's that's really I am obviously a fan of my dad,

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Speaker 1: but I think it's I think I do think it's

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Speaker 1: cool that you've covered so many local stories that no

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Speaker 1: one that that are not ordinarily covered especially with I mean,

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Speaker 1: like I mean, Caitlin, what you just said is kind

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Speaker 1: of proof of that. It's just like women's Like women's

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Speaker 1: hockey is absolutely a thing, but it's not covered in

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Speaker 1: any sort of broad way, right.

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Speaker 2: Like I've never seen a women's talkie game on TV.

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Speaker 2: Not that I'm like actively seeking out sports games.

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Speaker 4: You you would more likely find it during like the Olympics.

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Speaker 4: It's a it's a yeah. And an issue is that

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Speaker 4: the United States is great at it, Canada is great

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Speaker 4: at it, but there's you know, they need more international competition.

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Speaker 4: It is you know, it's not like there's generations of Swedish, Norwegian,

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Speaker 4: you know, European players.

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Speaker 2: I was going to say, like Sweden, what are you doing? Hello?

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Speaker 4: I know, right, But I mean it'll come. It will come.

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Speaker 1: It will when I write my awesome women's hockey movie.

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Speaker 2: So let's take a quick break and then we will

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Speaker 2: come back for the recap.

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Speaker 1: First periods over, you could say.

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Speaker 2: And we're back and now it's the second period. How

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Speaker 2: many are there periods? Okay? There three?

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Speaker 1: So this kind of works perfect. Wow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So the thing that I thought was halftime, it's

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Speaker 2: probably not actually halftime there's like two breaks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's the middle. Yeah, there's not really any like

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Speaker 1: manner of halftime show for hockey. There's like, uh, well

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Speaker 1: to guess my ms. The Zamboni's are kind of how

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Speaker 1: you know, like, yeah, they come out twice and they

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Speaker 1: resurface the ice because that's their kind of one purpose.

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Speaker 1: And and sometimes uh, you know, kids and also local

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Speaker 1: celebs will come out on the zamboni and sometimes it's

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Speaker 1: me Staple Center in January twenty twenty, it was me

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Speaker 1: one time. I think we should I think we should

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Speaker 1: definitely post a picture of it to our Instagram. Actually absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I think it's pretty importantly do. But there's well there's

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Speaker 1: also I feel like there's because there's no cheerleading element

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Speaker 1: to hockey because it's on ice. But they have like

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Speaker 1: what do they call like it's a group of it's

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Speaker 1: now a gender inclusive group, but it's like a they

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Speaker 1: kind of assist the zamboni's. It's not really as best

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Speaker 1: of as cheerleading or dancing. It's really just like excited sweeping.

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Speaker 4: And there are there are some teams that will employ

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Speaker 4: people to you know, stand in the stairways and everything

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Speaker 4: and cheer.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I know that job. It seems like a fun job.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if I feel like traditionally those jobs are

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Speaker 1: really low paid. I wonder what the deal is in hockey.

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Speaker 1: But I was like, you know, I would sweep, I

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Speaker 1: would sweep in shorts. Why not?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it.

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Speaker 1: Anyways, let's what happens in the movie slap Shot let us.

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Speaker 2: I would be delighted to tell you. Okay, we meet

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Speaker 2: a minor league, right, minor league hockey team called the

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Speaker 2: Chiefs from the fictional town of Charlestown, Pennsylvania, not to

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Speaker 2: be confused with Charlestown, Massachusetts, which is where the movie

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Speaker 2: The Town famously takes place.

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Speaker 1: That is kind of the famous town. Wow.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so the most seasoned player and also the coach.

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Speaker 2: I did not know that the coach of a hockey

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Speaker 2: team was also a player. Fascinating to me.

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Speaker 1: Can that happen in minor leagues?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Is that a thing?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? It has been player coaches. The lower you go,

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Speaker 4: you never know what you're going to see.

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Speaker 2: So the coach slash a player is Reggie Dunlop played

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Speaker 2: by Paul Newman Albahabba. And then we meet some other

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Speaker 2: players like Ned Bryden. There's a goalie named Denny who

402
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Speaker 2: is French and everyone makes fun of him for English

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Speaker 2: not being his first language.

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Speaker 1: I really like his opening monologue that ends like with

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Speaker 1: him just poetically describing the penalty box and then you

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Speaker 1: get free. I was like, whoa, Yes, you feel shame

407
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Speaker 1: and then you get free, and you're like.

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Speaker 2: Whoa, Denny. We also meet Joe McGrath, who is the

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Speaker 2: team's manager because he's not the coach, so he's the manager.

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Speaker 4: Is that right, Mike, Yeah, general managers what you'd call, okay.

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Speaker 2: Got it. He has the team do fashion shows to

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Speaker 2: promote the games because people aren't coming out as much

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Speaker 2: to the games anymore because the Chiefs kind of suck

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Speaker 2: and they've been losing a lot. Also, a local mill

415
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Speaker 2: is going to be closing soon in town and it's

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Speaker 2: going to potentially mean that Charlestown will sort of dry

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Speaker 2: up and then the team might have to fold, so

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Speaker 2: that's looming over everybody. We also meet the Hansen brothers.

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Speaker 2: They have just been signed over to the Chiefs. They're

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Speaker 2: characterized as being a bunch of dipshits who bring their

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Speaker 2: toys with them even though they're adults.

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Speaker 1: They're yeah, they're young adults. I don't know. It's like

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Speaker 1: it didn't shock me that, like when they're like eighteen,

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Speaker 1: twenty and twenty.

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Speaker 2: One something like that, and then.

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Speaker 1: You're just like, yeah, I guess they would bring.

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Speaker 2: Their race cars.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I was about to say they're not

429
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Speaker 1: hurting anybody, but that's actually kind of their whole fanger.

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Speaker 2: But they do kind of they are super violent on

431
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Speaker 2: the ice, and then they would later go on to

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Speaker 2: form a boy band and sing bop.

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Speaker 4: I know.

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Speaker 1: It's so confusing, Like I got that is that's a

435
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: good generation gap. It's like, who are the hands and

436
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,680
Speaker 1: brothers to you? Right, because I'm going to mbop every time.

437
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 1: I didn't know that boomers had their own handsome brothers.

438
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:12,679
Speaker 2: It's true. Okay. So we also meet a few of

439
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 2: the players' wives. They're his wives, such as Bryden's wife Lily.

440
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,439
Speaker 2: She hates this town. She seems to just kind of

441
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 2: generally hate her life and possibly her husband. We also

442
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:34,119
Speaker 2: meet Francine, who is Reggie's ex wife who he is

443
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 2: trying to win.

444
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 1: Back to know of it my hero, my favorite character,

445
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:40,439
Speaker 1: Francine Rocks.

446
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 2: So the team they wonder who owns the team because

447
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 2: they don't know, and Reggie is like, I don't know,

448
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 2: it's just a corporation. And then they're general manager. That

449
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 2: guy Joe reveals that this is the Chief's last season,

450
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,640
Speaker 2: and the players are worried that they won't be signed

451
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 2: to another team. Some of them feel like they're getting

452
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:08,919
Speaker 2: too old to like be a valuable asset to another team.

453
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 2: Reggie thinks that they might get sold and get transferred

454
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 2: to a new city. He's thinking somewhere in Florida.

455
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: Reggie is such a mess. It is no secret to

456
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 1: anyone on this call. And I don't care for the

457
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 1: character of Reggie. Not a fan of his. I think

458
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 1: it's so like we'll talk about him more obviously later

459
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 1: in the episode, but I really like especially the second

460
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: time when I was watching it, it was because he's

461
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 1: such a piece of shit to everyone, and it's it's

462
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 1: really interesting to me that like his only redeeming moments

463
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: happen privately, Like he's never publicly nice to anybody privately

464
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 1: will he will say nice things about people behind their back,

465
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 1: never to their face, And it just like it made me,

466
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 1: I don't know, it was an interesting character. I mean,

467
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 1: it's tricky because it's like, I don't think the movie

468
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 1: is fully I don't know. I mean I I think

469
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 1: he's like he's a piece of shit and also kind

470
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,159
Speaker 1: of tragic to me in a way because he just

471
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: seems like someone who needs a friend so badly, but

472
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 1: like can't stop getting in his own way enough to

473
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: ever like have a friend. Like there's so many characters

474
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 1: in this movie that he almost forges a friendship with

475
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 1: but then turns on them or is a piece of

476
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,400
Speaker 1: shit to them, or like feels insecure for a second

477
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 1: and says something cruel to them, and you're just like

478
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: this person is so like it's it's a mess. He's

479
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 1: an asshole. But it's also like it's sad, Like it's

480
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: like this guy just needs to get out of his

481
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 1: own way and make a make a friend, but but

482
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: but he can't do it, and it's it's very frustrating

483
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: to watch him sabotage himself over and over truly.

484
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, So he's insecure about the future, sure of the team,

485
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 2: and he goes to this sports writer Dickie Done aka

486
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 2: basically Mike loftis, Yeah.

487
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: Dad, did you feel represented? Dicky Done?

488
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 4: I do like that he's often well just trying to

489
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 4: catch the spirit of the thing.

490
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 2: You know, he says this a lot.

491
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, I mean you know whatever Reggie Dunlop plays him.

492
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 4: You know obviously, you know kind of plants this story

493
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 4: about here we're getting sold when you know that never

494
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 4: was going to happen. Right, So Dickie's Dickie's failure to

495
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 4: like maybe follow up on that.

496
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 2: He's not doing very good journalism, yes, because he's doing

497
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 2: no research.

498
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 4: But you know he's probably selling some papers, and you know,

499
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 4: he just it's funny how he just sort of fell

500
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 4: right into right, right into Reggis. Reggis trapped there.

501
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 2: Well, he is charming, he is like charismatics. So people are.

502
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: Like, he is hot, so you should probably.

503
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 2: Be so hot. So everyone listens to him.

504
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 4: And that's a great line too where there you know, Paul,

505
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,640
Speaker 4: you know Reggie is reading the story. Hey, Dickie Dunn

506
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 4: wrote it. You know it's true, right.

507
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 1: Also, Uh, it's it's stereotypes. Uh, sports writers as bad parents.

508
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 1: His daughter run out and her brother was bullying her,

509
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 1: and he's like, all right, resolve it among yourselves. Talking

510
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 1: to Paul Newman.

511
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 2: I'm doing business, right, now I'm mister business, bad representation.

512
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:32,959
Speaker 4: I think there might have been a drink or two

513
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 4: there too.

514
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, he said, he said, go away kids,

515
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: and then he starts drinking again. There's a lot of

516
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 1: drinking in this movie, so much drinking. Yeah, Dad, you'll

517
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: have to explain the seventies.

518
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 2: So Dickie Dunn is like, that's ridiculous. No one's gonna

519
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 2: buy a fifth place team, and Reggie is like, well

520
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 2: that's about to change. Mean, while Reggie is having an

521
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 2: affair with an opponent's wife, his wife Suzanne, and she

522
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 2: tells Reggie that she's been sleeping with other women recently,

523
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 2: which Reggie uses when he plays his opponent the following week.

524
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 2: This guy named Hanrahan Han Rahn. That will we'll talk

525
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 2: about that.

526
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: That'll be a whole thing, because that's it's like, that's

527
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: something that this movie is so constantly infuriating, mostly because

528
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: of regg Yeah, where you're like, oh wow, I would

529
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 1: guess that that wouldn't be something that would be like

530
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: commonly discussed in a popular movie in the seventies, and

531
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: then in the next scene you're like, well, what was

532
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: the point, Like, if you're just going to do that.

533
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 2: What was the point exactly? Yeah. So Hanrahan is the

534
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 2: goalie for the other team, and Reggie is taunting him

535
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 2: and saying, you know your wife is a lesbian. But

536
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 2: he's using a lot of slurs and it makes hanrah

537
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 2: Han so mad and distracted that he gets scored on

538
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 2: a bunch and the Chiefs win, also partly because they

539
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 2: get very violent and start beating the shit out of

540
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 2: the other team.

541
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: Which is sort of like becoming their new Emma Owing card.

542
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yes. Meanwhile, we have a scene with Lily.

543
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 2: She's still having a really hard time. It seems like

544
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 2: Brandon is cheating on her, and then Reggie tries to

545
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 2: comfort her, but in a very sleazy way where he's like,

546
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 2: come over, I'll give you a foot rub.

547
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: He's so frustrating. I'm just like, she that's whatever I mean.

548
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: I guess the choice is consistent with Reggie's character, but

549
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 1: I'm just like, ah, these two characters, they both need

550
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: a friend. Why can't they be friends to each other?

551
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: But it's because Reggie can't because he's a creep. Yeah,

552
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: because he can't not be a creep.

553
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 2: But he's not even the most creepy guy on the

554
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 2: team because that's a guy named Morris's.

555
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: Oh he's a disaster. Yeah.

556
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 2: Anyway, so the team sees this story in the paper

557
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 2: that Dicky Dunn had printed about how the Chiefs are

558
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 2: going to get bought and transferred to Florida, which they're

559
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 2: very excited about. And so, with the team morale higher

560
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 2: than ever, the Chiefs start winning a bunch, although again

561
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 2: they're playing way rougher than normal. There's lots of punching

562
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,959
Speaker 2: and bloody faces and stuff. Although Brayden is opposed to

563
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 2: playing dirty, he thinks it's cheap and not the right

564
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 2: way to win, which.

565
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: He'll sort of like built into He's like, I went

566
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: to college. I'm not none of this nonsense. I went

567
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: to college.

568
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm still a piece of shit who's cheating on

569
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 2: my wife, but I have morals.

570
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: But I went to college.

571
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 2: But Reggie is very pro all of this hockey violence,

572
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 2: and he starts putting the Hansen brothers in the game,

573
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 2: whose entire strategy is just to punch the ship out

574
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 2: of their opponents.

575
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: I kind of love the hands, Like, it's kind of

576
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: hard not to love the Hansen brothers.

577
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 2: They're so goofy, they're extremely goofy.

578
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: Wait, my dad's got some some a real real sleigh

579
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: of a of a context corner for them. But oh okay,

580
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: I love I love the hands and brothers. They're fun.

581
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 2: I yeah, there's awesome anyway. So, uh, the team continues

582
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 2: to speculate who the owner is. Meanwhile, this thing is

583
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 2: happening where Reggie just like keeps lying about the team

584
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 2: getting bought and sold to keep the morale up. And

585
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 2: also maybe he's just like deluding himself because he knows

586
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 2: that he's about to reach a point where he's probably

587
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 2: gonna have to tire and he's so insecure and he

588
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 2: can't deal with it.

589
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: It's so I read this incredible essay about how Reggie

590
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: is a metaphor for the men of Pittsburgh in the seventies. Wow,

591
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: and I'm just like, I'm excited to talk about it later.

592
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay. So then Reggie sees Francene with another guy

593
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 2: and he's kind of like following her around and calling

594
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 2: different places that he knows that she frequents to try

595
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 2: to like see who she's been there with. Very stalker behavior.

596
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: Yeah he's doing I mean he does the same thing

597
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 1: to Lily. He like jumps in her car at one point,

598
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: like he's just he has no no issue really inserting

599
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: being around.

600
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And he bumps into her at some point,

601
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 2: and franccene tells Reggie that she's moving to Long Island,

602
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 2: which I'm like, yes, please get away from him. Then

603
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 2: there's an upcoming game against Syracuse, so Reggie goes on

604
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 2: the radio for an interview and he says that he's

605
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 2: putting a bounty on I don't know if it's that

606
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 2: team's coach or just kind of like one of their

607
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 2: star players, this guy Tim McCracken. And he's like, I'm

608
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 2: paying one hundred dollars of my own money for someone

609
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 2: to kill him.

610
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,240
Speaker 1: It's such a love bounty. It's kind of fun, right.

611
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 2: And then there's this player who has given himself the

612
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 2: nickname Killer and he's like, I'll do it. I'll kill

613
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 2: Tim McCracken. Anyway, Lily shows up at Reggie's place with

614
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 2: her huge Saint Bernard dog. She seems to have left

615
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,800
Speaker 2: Bryden and she has a new lease online.

616
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:49,959
Speaker 1: He doesn't know it yet.

617
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 2: He doesn't know it yet, let's see. Then Reggie takes

618
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 2: Lily to Francine's hair salon and she gets a bit

619
00:34:59,320 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 2: of a makeo.

620
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: I have some I have complicated thoughts about that scene

621
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: because I feel like that scene's heart is in the

622
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 1: right place, but it's kind of broadly done. But I'm

623
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 1: excited to talk about it.

624
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Yeah. Then Reggie finally figures out who the

625
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 2: owner of the Chiefs is and he goes to see

626
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 2: him just kidding. It's a woman jeamed whit Anita McCambridge,

627
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 2: and he wants to know how the sale of the

628
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,720
Speaker 2: team is going, but she tells him that she plans

629
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 2: to fold the team and take a tax loss rather

630
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 2: than sell it because she won't make enough of a

631
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 2: profit if she sells the team.

632
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: It's like every single decision, like every streamer is making

633
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 1: right now, they're like, no, actually, we're deleting your entire

634
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 1: life and career because it suits me today.

635
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 4: Fuck you.

636
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 2: Yikes. And so this news infuriates Reggie and he brutally

637
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 2: insults her son and then storms out.

638
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 1: Classic Reggie, He's like, well, I'm feeling a little insecure

639
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 1: and angry. Let me insult someone who's not here in

640
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 1: the cruelest way I can possibly think of, truly, kind

641
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: of his whole thing.

642
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:17,399
Speaker 2: Then Reggie comes clean to his team. He admits that

643
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 2: there's no deal for them to be bought and moved

644
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 2: to Florida. That Ned was right all along. They shouldn't

645
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 2: be resorting to all of this violence as a way

646
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 2: to win games. And this is Reggie's last game and

647
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 2: he's gonna play it straight and try to win that

648
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 2: championship honestly and legitimately. But this is when they're playing

649
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 2: Syracuse and that team is ready for a bloodbath. So

650
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 2: the game starts and the Syracuse team are fighting, but

651
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 2: the Chiefs aren't fighting back, and they're losing. And then

652
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 2: it's not halftime, it's either after the first or second period.

653
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 2: They're like in the locker room and their general manager

654
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 2: Joe is like, hey, there's a bunch of NHL scouts

655
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,839
Speaker 2: in the crowd, so you have to put on a

656
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 2: good show for them, and Reggie's like, okay, forget everything

657
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 2: I said. We're gonna play dirty, and then we just

658
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 2: like cut to everyone punching each other. Francine and Lily

659
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 2: show up to the game, and Braiden sees his wife

660
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 2: and he's like, wow.

661
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 1: This part is where this is where like the whole

662
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,959
Speaker 1: Lily story falls apart from me where I'm like, what

663
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 1: happened here? So confused about what happens with Lily's character.

664
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know sure, and I also don't know

665
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 2: exactly what prompts this. But Braiden goes out on the

666
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 2: ice while everyone well everyone's just punching each other and

667
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 2: not playing hockey even a little bit, and Braiden starts

668
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 2: doing a strip tease, and everyone in the crowd and

669
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 2: all the players are like, te wow, And for.

670
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 1: Some reason this solves all of the problems in his marriage.

671
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 1: You're just like, it's very cinematic, but you're just like,

672
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense, but it's a very movie behavior.

673
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he does the strip tease and it somehow

674
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,360
Speaker 2: wins the game. I don't know if the other team forfits.

675
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 2: I don't know what happens.

676
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 4: I could tell you. So as as Ned is doing

677
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 4: his strip tease, one of the players, one of the

678
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 4: it might be Tim McCracken, is furious and he's like,

679
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 4: you know, during the middle of this bloodbath, he starts

680
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 4: to yell at the official like that's disgusting. Make him stop,

681
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 4: And the officials like, what do you mean, it's disgusting

682
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 4: look at this, and they end up with an argument e.

683
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 4: McCracken or the you know, the opponent hits the official.

684
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 4: He which is, no matter how low the miners or whatever,

685
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 4: you know, you can't hit an official. And he hit him,

686
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 4: and the officials says that's it. The game's over. You forfeit.

687
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:11,720
Speaker 2: You know, got it? Okay, okay, nice, okay. It reminds

688
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 2: me of an air bud when they're like, there's nothing

689
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 2: in the rule book that says a dog can't play basketball.

690
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:19,800
Speaker 2: It's like, there's nothing in the rule book that says

691
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 2: a player can't come out and strip to win the game.

692
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: Right, you can maybe get a penalty for it.

693
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 4: Play was stopped at the time, you know, it doesn't.

694
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: It's true, so he's basically just doing it. It's like

695
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: that that could have been the the ice sweepers, it

696
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 1: could have been, could have been anything, and he happened

697
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 1: to do that. I don't, yeah, I have so the

698
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 1: way that this movie it's so bizarre. We were talking

699
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 1: about it when we were watching it a couple of

700
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,320
Speaker 1: nights ago, where it's like this movie in the last

701
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: half of it, like I'd be on board, and then

702
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 1: it would lose me for ten minutes, and I'd be

703
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:55,359
Speaker 1: back for a couple of minutes, and then it would

704
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: lose me for ten minutes, and then I kind of

705
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,839
Speaker 1: liked the ending, and it was like I didn't see

706
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: I don't like, well, whatever, we're at the end, basically, yeah,

707
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 1: but like it lost me during this whole game, because

708
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 1: you're like, why does ned stripping on ice solve the

709
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 1: issue of infidelity and them hating it each other? And

710
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: then it seems like well whatever, Like I'm I didn't

711
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: dislike the scene between Lily and Francine, even though it

712
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 1: was like whatever channeled into the idea and to a makeover.

713
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: I think you can make the argument that it was

714
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 1: like she was getting a makeover to feel better about herself.

715
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,760
Speaker 1: It didn't seem like it was overtly for her husband

716
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 1: or for anyone except for herself.

717
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 2: Because she had already left him by that point.

718
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seemed like she was doing it to feel

719
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:46,919
Speaker 1: more confident about herself. And I don't have an issue

720
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 1: with that, but it just seems like it's like implied

721
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: that something happens between Lily and Francine off screen that

722
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 1: leads because I'm like, I don't even know why they

723
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 1: show up at that hockey game. It's confusing to me

724
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 1: because it seems like Lily or Francines like getting really

725
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 1: gassed up to like get out into the world and

726
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,720
Speaker 1: start her life. Like whether that's dating or moving or whatever,

727
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 1: it is kind of unclear. But then it's like, the

728
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 1: next time we see them, they're at the hockey game.

729
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: You're like, when did you guys decide to go to

730
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: the hockey game? Why? It seems like the opposite of

731
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 1: what Lily was trying to do.

732
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 2: Right, they should have gone out to dinner.

733
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: They should have gone out to a singles bar.

734
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 2: Right, and then they could have started a book club together.

735
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know anyway, So we cut to

736
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:37,439
Speaker 2: a parade. The team I think has disbanded, but the

737
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 2: players seems like they're getting contracts to go play on

738
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 2: other teams. Reggie is going to go play in Minneapolis.

739
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 2: He tries to get Francine to come with him, but

740
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 2: she's like pass. But Lily and Braden do get back

741
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:58,280
Speaker 2: together in an infuriating moment, and then.

742
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:02,240
Speaker 1: Everyone I've never been so it on different characters endings

743
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,280
Speaker 1: where it's like I'm thrilled for Francine and I'm completely

744
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 1: confused by Lily.

745
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, but anyway, but everyone's celebrating at the parade, and

746
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:15,280
Speaker 2: that's how the movie ends. So let's take another break.

747
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 2: Second period period is over. Is there a big Is

748
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 2: there a big buzzer in hockey to like signify the

749
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 2: end of a period?

750
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 4: Well, I think it's a siren, you know.

751
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 2: Oh okay, so a wuga will be right back. We're back,

752
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:39,240
Speaker 2: and it's time for the third period.

753
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 1: And the third period can go on for a while.

754
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. There's no time limit.

755
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 1: If things are tight, you know. Sometimes sometimes it just

756
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 1: keeps going.

757
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 2: Sometimes we go into overtime.

758
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 4: Overtime, yes on the Bechdel cast.

759
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 5: Yes, oh that's exactly Okay, I wonder that's that's when

760
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:57,800
Speaker 5: we do the our scoring.

761
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 2: That's oh yeah, that's like the penalty shootout kind of thing.

762
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:05,839
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, Dad, I before we get into the full analysis,

763
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 1: I'm curious, do you feel that the sport of hockey

764
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 1: is like does this feel authentic to because you, I

765
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 1: mean like we're reporting like on the road with teams

766
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 1: and reporting from locker rooms for decades. Does this movie

767
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 1: feel close for the era? Does it feel overblown and moviefied, like,

768
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 1: how does it square with your experience in this arena?

769
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 4: You know, hey, you know, it's a good question. I

770
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,760
Speaker 4: mean I think, you know, when I watched that movie,

771
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:45,360
Speaker 4: everything in it from the hockey standpoint is just an exaggeration.

772
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 1: You know.

773
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,399
Speaker 4: It's like, you know, yes there is locker room talk,

774
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 4: but some of the extent that these guys, you know, no,

775
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 4: I don't think. I mean, I never heard the violence

776
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 4: in games. You know. Yes, it's a very very physical game,

777
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 4: and I would say back in that era that was

778
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 4: more of a factor, that was more of a strategy

779
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 4: than it is now. And also to the NHL, it's

780
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 4: like any major sport, people follow him. There's like the

781
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 4: top level and then there are different tiers in hockey.

782
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 4: The lower that you go, you know, you're probably not

783
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 4: going to make it, you know, you might you know,

784
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:29,760
Speaker 4: move up another level or two. So the crazier things,

785
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 4: I guess, you know, would tend to happen, you know,

786
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:37,439
Speaker 4: in the lower minors, smaller towns, you know, smaller franchises,

787
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 4: things like that. I mean, and that's you know, that's

788
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:41,959
Speaker 4: kind of where the movie came from.

789
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 2: Now.

790
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 4: Nancy Dowd's brother.

791
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:46,800
Speaker 1: Ned Nancy the writer.

792
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:51,760
Speaker 4: Yes, I'm sorry. Yeah, So her brother played college hockey

793
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 4: in Maine, and then he played two years a low

794
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 4: minor professional hockey league, and he would he you know,

795
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 4: he would tell his sisters worries about the you know,

796
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 4: the things that happened, and thus the movie. You know,

797
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 4: so a lot of it. There's a lot of things

798
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 4: that are based on things that actually did happen. And

799
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 4: I think that, you know, for film purposes and everything,

800
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 4: you know, it's it's amplified and exaggerated.

801
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,720
Speaker 1: That's something I mean, I guess that's like a place

802
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: that I would be down to start, is just talking

803
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 1: a little bit about the behind the scenes process of

804
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 1: this movie, because I didn't I know that. I mean,

805
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 1: the one fact I knew about this movie other than

806
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 1: it's where the hands and brother's glasses comes from, is

807
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 1: what my dad told me five thousand times, which is

808
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,919
Speaker 1: that a woman wrote the movie. It was the fact

809
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 1: that I knew, but I didn't know I actually really liked.

810
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,240
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's like it I was like, oh,

811
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 1: I kind of do stuff like that sometimes. Where Nancy down, Yeah,

812
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 1: like she heard that her brother was involved in this

813
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 1: what was the name of the team that the Chiefs

814
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: are based.

815
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 4: On, the Johnstown Jets, okay in Pennsylvania, So that was

816
00:45:58,640 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 4: a team.

817
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: Her brother was on. He called basically with the premise

818
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 1: to slap shot that this you know team was not

819
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 1: going to be around for much longer, and so she

820
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,800
Speaker 1: followed them around for a month, and she like shadowed

821
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 1: them and did basically like Gonzo's style, following this minor

822
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 1: league team around. And so a lot of what she

823
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 1: saw went directly into the movie in the script, which

824
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,359
Speaker 1: I think you can argue works for and against it

825
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:27,359
Speaker 1: because it's like if she's presenting in this the late

826
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,839
Speaker 1: seventies that authentically a lot of it doesn't age well

827
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: because it was, you know, almost fifty years ago, but

828
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:37,400
Speaker 1: it does seem like that was sort of her goal

829
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 1: in writing it and what she was trying to present.

830
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 1: And so I went back to the way that this

831
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 1: movie was originally covered because it was like a hit.

832
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,479
Speaker 1: It was a box office success, people liked it, Paul

833
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 1: Newman was in it, and it was also like I

834
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 1: thought it was interesting that it was drawn attention to

835
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: when the movie came out, that these were like, quote,

836
00:46:57,719 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to think if there's like a contemporary

837
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 1: example of it where they were like quote unquote like

838
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: respectable filmmakers making this raunchy comedy. Because the director of

839
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 1: this movie, George roy Hill, like he directed Butch Cassidy,

840
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 1: he'd done all of these like, you know, really prestige sensitive, thoughtful,

841
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 1: prestigie movies, and then later in his career makes this

842
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 1: super super raunchy comedy. And then you have Nancy Dowd

843
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: who is from Framingham, Massachusetts, representing Massachusetts, but grew up

844
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 1: you know, like a pretty like upper crusty Massachusetts life.

845
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 1: She went to Smith College like she was like a

846
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 1: no one and this was like her first success. She

847
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 1: went on after this. Two years after this, she won

848
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 1: an oscar for a movie called Coming Home about Did

849
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:48,919
Speaker 1: you see that? Dad?

850
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 4: I did? Did you like it?

851
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 1: It was?

852
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 4: It was a little challenging to believe. It's very serious.

853
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:56,800
Speaker 4: It was like a it was kind of like a

854
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:01,280
Speaker 4: Vietnam War movie real and it's you know John Floyd

855
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 4: so well it.

856
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,799
Speaker 1: Works against it. Yeah, it's no national treasure. But no,

857
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 1: I mean it's.

858
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 4: Like speaking.

859
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 1: But yeah, because John Boyd is truly evil. Yeah, but

860
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 1: but it felt like these prestigiee stars, serious writers and

861
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 1: directors making this really raunchy, goofy comedy. But it was

862
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: also like my dad. The news talked a lot about

863
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 1: how like a woman wrote the movie in a different

864
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 1: context at I'm not criticizing this, but I just like

865
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 1: most of the coverage of Nancy Dawd at this time

866
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: was like, it's the raunchiest comedy of the year and

867
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 1: a Woa wa will woman wrote it, and like, which

868
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: I think that we still see stuff like that, and

869
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 1: it's still like the majority of Raanji comedies that come

870
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 1: out are not written by I don't think that there's

871
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 1: really parody. I mean, there's not parody in film in general,

872
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: but I think, especially in this genre, it still feels

873
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,360
Speaker 1: super male driven. I feel like joy Ride is the

874
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 1: only exception I can think of this year. But I

875
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 1: read some of the coverage because I was like, well,

876
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 1: how did Nancy Dowd kind of feeld this? And I

877
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 1: thought she was cool. I thought she was really funny

878
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: and really cool. She says this in a New York

879
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 1: Times article from nineteen seventy seven. This is how it's

880
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 1: set up. Set up obscenity hockey. A woman missed out

881
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 1: has been meeting so many people lately who can't believe

882
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 1: that she actually wrote this screenplay, that she is beginning

883
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 1: to lose her patience, and she says, quote, the world

884
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,280
Speaker 1: has a weird view of women. People seem to believe

885
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 1: that we have to write about divorce or suicide or

886
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 1: children so called women's topics. But we've been around women

887
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:53,799
Speaker 1: aren't sequestered anymore, and kind of just goes on to

888
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 1: talk about how it reminds me of like how you

889
00:49:57,640 --> 00:49:59,799
Speaker 1: still see a lot of women writers being like, well,

890
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 1: wish this wasn't the story. Shut up, like watch the

891
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 1: movie and like it or don't. But this movie was,

892
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 1: even in its time, considered to be pretty sexist. I

893
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 1: think Paul Newman called it honestly sexist, which I think

894
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 1: is an interesting way to come about it. And I

895
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:19,839
Speaker 1: think I think what he's trying to say, I don't know,

896
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 1: let me know if either of you feel differently, is

897
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,879
Speaker 1: that it feels like it's more speaking to like how

898
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:28,799
Speaker 1: Nancy Dowd was not transcribing dialogue but like just sort

899
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 1: of saying authentically, how guys she was hanging out with

900
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 1: we're talking and not sanitizing what they were saying. So

901
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:37,839
Speaker 1: it's like she was hanging out with sexist guys. The

902
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 1: movie is honestly sexist because she's not like, you know,

903
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:43,399
Speaker 1: sugarmaking more appealing.

904
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:46,319
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, and you know I would say too that,

905
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 4: you know, when it came out, you know, and I

906
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 4: was whatever, eighteen years old. I don't recall knowing that

907
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 4: a woman wrote it at the time.

908
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 1: I mean, we just you know, you should have been

909
00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:00,800
Speaker 1: reading the New York Times, well they couldn't up about.

910
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 4: It, reading the Brockton Enterprise, and hoping to one day

911
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:08,800
Speaker 4: work for the Patriot Ledger. But we were just excited

912
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 4: because there was a movie about hockey, you know, and

913
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:15,280
Speaker 4: it was our thing. Really didn't take it that much farther,

914
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 4: you know. I was surprised when I like looked a

915
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:20,799
Speaker 4: little bit more into it later on, you know, just

916
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 4: finding out like little little things about people who were

917
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 4: in the movie. You know that that got me to look,

918
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:30,280
Speaker 4: you know, behind this, not behind the scenes, but behind

919
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 4: the story, and it was like, you know, the only

920
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 4: thing was like, oh, a woman wrote it. I guess,

921
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:38,960
Speaker 4: you know. My not reaction to that, but like the

922
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 4: way I I might come off that way is like

923
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:46,359
Speaker 4: like if her brother wrote the movie, it'd be like, oh, yeah,

924
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 4: of course, you know, like all that dialogue, this and that,

925
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:51,720
Speaker 4: and it just it just you know, it just wouldn't

926
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 4: have seemed you know, it's so raunchy. Like I'm not

927
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 4: saying like anybody can't be raunchy, but it's like, you

928
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 4: know that one character, you know, Kaitlin you brought up

929
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:05,320
Speaker 4: Marris is like it's gross, you know, it's like it's hideous,

930
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 4: like his h you know, I was saying to Jamie

931
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 4: it was not like I never heard some of those

932
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 4: terms before, but like so so rare, you know, and

933
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:18,960
Speaker 4: you know, I mean I don't know, I guess in

934
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:23,359
Speaker 4: an office, you know, on a team, there's always that

935
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 4: one person that you know takes it a little bit

936
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:29,880
Speaker 4: farther or just like is extreme.

937
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

938
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 4: And as I was as I was watching it the

939
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:36,319
Speaker 4: other night, it was like I didn't catch, you know,

940
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 4: in my earlier viewings of it that a lot of

941
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:40,919
Speaker 4: his teammates are kind of grossed out by him too,

942
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 4: which is like, well, you know, thank God for that,

943
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:44,279
Speaker 4: you know.

944
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:47,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think it's well, we'll get into

945
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:51,239
Speaker 1: this too, like I I don't know, it's I think

946
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:55,800
Speaker 1: that it seems like her goal in writing the movie

947
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:58,880
Speaker 1: was like writing obviously like a movie that people would

948
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 1: like that was funny, but was also like authentic to

949
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 1: what she'd experienced, which I don't really have a problem with.

950
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:07,719
Speaker 1: I think it's more like, especially because this movie has

951
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:10,400
Speaker 1: been out for almost, you know, fifty years now, like

952
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 1: it's interesting watching like what parts of this movie are

953
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 1: its legacy because I feel like the parts that I

954
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 1: thought were interesting about the movie are not parts of

955
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:22,319
Speaker 1: the movie that are famous. And also that's like the

956
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:26,879
Speaker 1: writer has no control over what becomes known about their

957
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 1: work or not. But it just I don't know, I

958
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:32,200
Speaker 1: just think it's there was more to this movie than

959
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:35,319
Speaker 1: I thought, but like the nuanced parts of it aren't

960
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 1: what it's known for.

961
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:41,359
Speaker 2: That Plus like, yeah, she was observing the team, and

962
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 2: who knows, like if she was like transcribing like stuff

963
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 2: that they said and putting it into the script, or

964
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 2: if she was embellishing some of it. But it seems

965
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:54,799
Speaker 2: like for the most part, she's like, well, the way

966
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:58,120
Speaker 2: that Dicky Dunn just tries to capture the spirit of

967
00:53:58,160 --> 00:53:59,319
Speaker 2: the thing, I.

968
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 1: Mean guess I guess she's trying to do that.

969
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, Nancy dwod was just trying to capture the spirit

970
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:07,239
Speaker 2: of the thing, and that seems like the spirit was

971
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 2: a lot of like pretty losersh guys who are either

972
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 2: creepy or stockery, or they don't treat women well, et cetera.

973
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 2: That's just the vibe. Those were the vibes she was getting.

974
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 2: So that's what she put on the page. My concern

975
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:26,879
Speaker 2: is that a lot of it is presented uncritically and

976
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:31,480
Speaker 2: or just framed, like Morris saying all of his gross

977
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,840
Speaker 2: comments about women's bodies and stuff like that is usually

978
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:37,359
Speaker 2: just framed as a joke, like ha ha, look at

979
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 2: the look at the team creep. Isn't he funny? Aren't

980
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:40,759
Speaker 2: we laughing at him?

981
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 1: Yeah?

982
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:44,319
Speaker 2: So but again it's like, you know, it's the seventies.

983
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:49,279
Speaker 2: A lot of horrible things we're not presented critically. It

984
00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 2: was just this is what's normal, and it's normal. So

985
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:54,280
Speaker 2: that's fine.

986
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, it's movies of this era are

987
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 1: always I feel like in that way. Yeah. Sorry, I

988
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:04,399
Speaker 1: have one more quote from her from this New York

989
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 1: Times piece. The piece goes on she's generally frustrated that

990
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 1: the movie was considered to have strong sexist overtones. This

991
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:12,920
Speaker 1: was something I was talked about in original reviews of

992
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:17,960
Speaker 1: the movie, but she was annoyed with that. She said, quote,

993
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 1: the only thing I thought twice about writing was making

994
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 1: the team's rich, uncaring owner a woman. I worried about

995
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 1: people saying I had made a sexist statement, but I've

996
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:29,080
Speaker 1: seen that woman's attitude so many times. Quote I never

997
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 1: let my children see a hockey game unquote, So it

998
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:35,440
Speaker 1: seems I mean whatever she felt, she felt differently, And

999
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:40,359
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's like, I feel I respect what

1000
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:42,359
Speaker 1: she's trying to do, and I also agree with what

1001
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:45,960
Speaker 1: you're saying. Galen, is like it just depends on like

1002
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 1: how your movie is received and how like I think,

1003
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 1: if you're looking for nuance in this movie, you can

1004
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 1: find it, but because of the genre, you might not

1005
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:57,560
Speaker 1: necessarily be looking for it.

1006
00:55:58,200 --> 00:55:59,840
Speaker 4: I don't know, you know, And I think too, like

1007
00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:02,240
Speaker 4: the you know, the fact that the owner is a woman.

1008
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 4: You know, As I was, you know, pitching this idea

1009
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:09,400
Speaker 4: to to Jamie, it's like, I don't think this will pass.

1010
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 4: I think this is like the worst possible. But she's

1011
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:17,760
Speaker 4: she's you know, us the description rich uncaring, it's also

1012
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 4: it's a she's a ruthless, bottom line business person, right,

1013
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 4: and like any guy would have done that, you know, Yeah,

1014
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 4: I mean it the same, you know, But so I

1015
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:32,719
Speaker 4: don't I don't know that you saw a lot of

1016
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:35,759
Speaker 4: that back then where the I don't know, is it

1017
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:38,920
Speaker 4: called girl boss. I don't want to step in anything here.

1018
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:41,520
Speaker 1: You know. Well, yeah, you've seen my you've seen my show.

1019
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:43,520
Speaker 1: I mean I think it kind of I think that

1020
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:45,880
Speaker 1: it does fall into that thing. I don't know. I

1021
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:47,920
Speaker 1: think it's interesting that that was what was on her

1022
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:50,920
Speaker 1: mind in seventy seven, because I that was one of

1023
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 1: the characters that I didn't think, really I didn't have

1024
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 1: an issue with. I had an issue with how Red

1025
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 1: treated her versus like how she was portrayed, because it

1026
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 1: was like at that point for me, I don't know

1027
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 1: how you felt at this point in the movie, Caitlin,

1028
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 1: but it was like you had seen different kinds of

1029
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,840
Speaker 1: women throughout this movie that It's like I feel like

1030
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:13,319
Speaker 1: sometimes if there's only one woman in the movie and

1031
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 1: she is like a ruthless, cruel person, then it's like, well,

1032
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 1: I have no idea how this writer feels about women.

1033
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 1: This seems like how they're presenting all women. But because

1034
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:26,480
Speaker 1: it's like this one character who comes up late in

1035
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 1: the movie, I feel like she represents more of a

1036
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:34,920
Speaker 1: class thing than any sort of commentary on gender. And

1037
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 1: I was fine with that, Like it's you know, she

1038
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 1: and Regen is seen both suck in very very different ways.

1039
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 1: And yeah, that worked for me. I thought it was

1040
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 1: interesting that that was the thing that stuck with her,

1041
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 1: because I think the thing that stuck with me really

1042
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 1: was I agree, like there's not any pushback on how

1043
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:58,440
Speaker 1: men talk about women in this movie. I agree with

1044
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 1: you Dad that like they're they're there were some that

1045
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 1: you know, you would, but you would have to kind

1046
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 1: of be looking for it of like someone being like Hugh,

1047
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 1: because they do like the I think that the character

1048
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 1: that is most clearly written in a way that the

1049
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 1: movie is conscious of being sexist is I don't know,

1050
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 1: do you know what the name of that character is,

1051
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 1: Like the one that is who only says.

1052
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 4: Sexist Morris Morris.

1053
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:25,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, Morris's whole thing is that he views women

1054
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:28,800
Speaker 1: as objects. And it's like that's the joke with the character.

1055
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, and to go back to go

1056
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:33,720
Speaker 4: back to the point that it's a two hour movie.

1057
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 4: If you cut Mars out right, it becomes it could

1058
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:38,120
Speaker 4: have been.

1059
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 2: An easier movie to digest for sure.

1060
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I mean it doesn't really add anything. I

1061
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:47,960
Speaker 4: don't think, you know, it's just it's like it, you

1062
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 4: know again, the scene with the owner and Paul Newman.

1063
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 4: You know, as I think about it now, that's like

1064
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 4: Reg Dunlop, you know, the shoes on the other foot

1065
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:02,680
Speaker 4: now because you know, not because she's a woman, but

1066
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:05,520
Speaker 4: she's the owner and she's telling them like, yeah, I

1067
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 4: could help you and your and your your players, but

1068
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:10,919
Speaker 4: you know, but there's nothing in it for me. There's

1069
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 4: no money in it for me. And when he says,

1070
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 4: you know, we're human beings, you know, that's maybe about

1071
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:19,640
Speaker 4: as you know for all the other scenes where like

1072
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:21,920
Speaker 4: he's sort of vulnerable and he wants you know, France

1073
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 4: scene back. You know, that was a it's a small scene,

1074
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:30,200
Speaker 4: but that's probably you know, his most his most human

1075
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 4: vulnerable moment maybe, you know.

1076
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:36,520
Speaker 2: And it could have been a much more effective just

1077
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 2: scene in general or commentary or whatever it's trying to

1078
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:44,440
Speaker 2: do as far as like, yeah, rich people conduct and

1079
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 2: them not caring about human lives and only caring about

1080
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:51,479
Speaker 2: the bottom line. But then the scene ends with him

1081
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 2: going on a homophobic tirade about her young son, and

1082
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 2: then it's just like, well, that undercuts everything that could

1083
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 2: have been interesting about that scene.

1084
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:03,000
Speaker 4: Right, Caitlin, As you said earlier, the scene where you

1085
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:06,959
Speaker 4: know he's with the opponent's wife, you know, I mean,

1086
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:10,919
Speaker 4: you know, she explains a very you know, personal thing

1087
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 4: to him, and he seems to be listening and have

1088
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:18,680
Speaker 4: some you know, respect and everything. But then you know,

1089
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:21,920
Speaker 4: right two seconds later, and that sets his character. Everything

1090
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:25,480
Speaker 4: he can use he will use against others.

1091
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:28,919
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, well that's that's something that I maybe,

1092
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:31,560
Speaker 1: I mean, if it works for every I mean that

1093
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:34,160
Speaker 1: maybe has a good opportunity to slip over to just

1094
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 1: read as a character. I wonder I'm trying to think

1095
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 1: I couldn't think of like a modern day analog for

1096
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:42,920
Speaker 1: this character, because I do think that there is value

1097
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:48,040
Speaker 1: in presenting a character like this, who is you know,

1098
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:53,640
Speaker 1: like I struggle, like a complicated guy, but someone who

1099
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 1: responds to insecurity by being hateful like that is I

1100
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:02,360
Speaker 1: think something that exists in the world. It exists in

1101
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:05,160
Speaker 1: a lot of men, but a lot of people, but

1102
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:09,400
Speaker 1: mostly men. If we're being honest, But you know, in general,

1103
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:11,800
Speaker 1: these are people who exist in the world. I don't

1104
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 1: think it's off the table to present that, but presenting

1105
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:21,240
Speaker 1: it as your movie star hero is a very difficult

1106
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 1: self for me because then it's like, I think that

1107
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 1: the element like Paul Newman, I think gives a good

1108
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:29,240
Speaker 1: performance in this movie, but he's Paul Newman. You know,

1109
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:32,000
Speaker 1: he's like, you're gonna love him because he's Paul Newman,

1110
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 1: and he's charismatic, and he's handsome, and even when he's

1111
01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:39,600
Speaker 1: saying horrible things, especially in the late seventies where people

1112
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:43,960
Speaker 1: said horrible things more openly than they currently do, Like,

1113
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 1: it's just it's even if there is something to be

1114
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:51,960
Speaker 1: said about presenting a character like this, I feel like

1115
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 1: the combination of positioning it as your main character and

1116
01:01:55,600 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 1: your hero, and also like combining that with he doesn't

1117
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:03,920
Speaker 1: really I mean, I guess like he doesn't get what

1118
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:06,240
Speaker 1: he wants in the way that we see in some

1119
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 1: movies where like someone fucking sucks the whole movie and

1120
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:11,280
Speaker 1: then for some reason they get exactly what they want

1121
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:13,840
Speaker 1: at the end. It's a mixed bag for Rege at

1122
01:02:13,880 --> 01:02:17,160
Speaker 1: the end. But I wouldn't say he like he doesn't

1123
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 1: get his uh really like he gets to continue to

1124
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:23,680
Speaker 1: work in hockey, Like he gets part of it. I

1125
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:26,480
Speaker 1: think the main thing he loses is the relationship that

1126
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:29,760
Speaker 1: he very obviously still wants, right and deservedly so and

1127
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:31,920
Speaker 1: not I think is one of the better done parts

1128
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:34,720
Speaker 1: of the movie for sure. But yeah, I don't know.

1129
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:38,920
Speaker 1: I struggled with how his character was framed.

1130
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:43,040
Speaker 2: I don't know, especially because he learns nothing, he shows

1131
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:46,320
Speaker 2: no growth, and even at the end when it seems like,

1132
01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:49,040
Speaker 2: you know what, I don't want to win this way

1133
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 2: by you know, pummeling the other team. I want to

1134
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:56,000
Speaker 2: play hockey and win that way. And then as soon

1135
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:58,640
Speaker 2: as he's like, oh, they're scouts here, and it's.

1136
01:02:58,560 --> 01:02:59,720
Speaker 1: Like never, never mind.

1137
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:03,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's like okay, so you have absolutely no

1138
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:05,320
Speaker 2: code of ethics. That's interesting.

1139
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:08,000
Speaker 4: And again, I mean, I don't know if we're supposed

1140
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:10,680
Speaker 4: to be where we're supposed to be in the discussion.

1141
01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:13,120
Speaker 4: But you know, again, the more I thought about it,

1142
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:16,600
Speaker 4: I remember reading a piece several years ago about the

1143
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:19,440
Speaker 4: movie as you know, kind of a not a hockey

1144
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:21,280
Speaker 4: movie or a good but like a sort of a

1145
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:28,160
Speaker 4: snapshot of America kind of at the time, late seventies

1146
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:31,360
Speaker 4: and I you know, I can't really remember what the

1147
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:35,280
Speaker 4: economy was like, you know, but things, you know, longtime businesses,

1148
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 4: you know, long time industries were really taking you know,

1149
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:43,480
Speaker 4: a hit back then, like the steel industry. And and

1150
01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 4: one of the things that kind of struck me watching it,

1151
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:49,439
Speaker 4: it's like with everybody depicted in there, even if they're

1152
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:52,600
Speaker 4: not characters in the movie, but like you know, the fans, right,

1153
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:56,800
Speaker 4: they're all looking at losing their jobs because they're you know,

1154
01:03:56,920 --> 01:04:00,960
Speaker 4: their jobs are going to disappear. And the player will

1155
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:03,480
Speaker 4: they get signed, you know, will the team full? Will it?

1156
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:05,520
Speaker 4: You know, if they were believing it would get sold.

1157
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:11,240
Speaker 4: To me, there's like this low level desperation you know,

1158
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:15,040
Speaker 4: to survive on the on the parts of everyone there,

1159
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 4: you know. And in the case of Paul Newman's you know,

1160
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:23,640
Speaker 4: Paul Newman being the oldest one, being not really that successful,

1161
01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:27,840
Speaker 4: you know, I mean, whether this is you know him

1162
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:30,600
Speaker 4: all the time or not, you know, he's he's kind

1163
01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:32,919
Speaker 4: of the worst one. He's like, I will I will

1164
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:37,840
Speaker 4: do anything. I'll do whatever it takes, you know, to

1165
01:04:37,880 --> 01:04:41,760
Speaker 4: be able to continue my career someplace else or here.

1166
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:45,000
Speaker 4: And if it has to do with you know, kind

1167
01:04:45,040 --> 01:04:48,960
Speaker 4: of manipulating my players or manipulating people who are involved

1168
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:52,080
Speaker 4: my players, you know, means to an end pretty much

1169
01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:53,360
Speaker 4: all the way through.

1170
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:56,400
Speaker 1: You know. I Yeah, I I the closest I can

1171
01:04:56,480 --> 01:05:04,080
Speaker 1: get to rationalizing Rag's carecharacter. I read an essay, an

1172
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:07,400
Speaker 1: academic essay. I was on Google dot scholar dot com.

1173
01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 1: Of course. Yes, this was published in athlon A E.

1174
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 1: T hl O N Eighth Lawn, The Journal of Sport Literature,

1175
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:19,640
Speaker 1: volume thirty seven, issue one from twenty nineteen, written by

1176
01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:22,920
Speaker 1: John Source. To take everything he says with a grain AsSalt,

1177
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:27,560
Speaker 1: but I did really appreciate his retrospective view on this movie,

1178
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:30,720
Speaker 1: and I think it offered because he did a more

1179
01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:35,360
Speaker 1: class driven view of the men on his team, which

1180
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:38,040
Speaker 1: I do think is a valuable way of looking at

1181
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:41,840
Speaker 1: this movie. But he basically makes the argument that Reggie's

1182
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:45,720
Speaker 1: character like doesn't shy away from the fact that reg

1183
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:48,680
Speaker 1: is a despicable character, and I do. I guess it's

1184
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:52,320
Speaker 1: like we don't have nineteen seventy seven goggles to put on,

1185
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:56,160
Speaker 1: and I wonder how clearly that read at the time.

1186
01:05:56,920 --> 01:05:59,960
Speaker 1: But I think that the argument that he makes the

1187
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:03,400
Speaker 1: I think is interesting and kind of speaks to like

1188
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:05,280
Speaker 1: the parts of this movie that did work for me

1189
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:09,320
Speaker 1: was that, you know, I think the setting is very

1190
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:14,280
Speaker 1: relevant here where they're like encapsulated in this fictional steel

1191
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:18,080
Speaker 1: town where jobs are falling left and right. There's this

1192
01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:22,440
Speaker 1: huge sense of insecurity about the future, and you see

1193
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:25,120
Speaker 1: in these men on the team a level of like

1194
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:28,640
Speaker 1: people acting desperately when their future is insecure. And I

1195
01:06:28,680 --> 01:06:33,760
Speaker 1: think reg is a really extreme, kind of like monstrous

1196
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:37,040
Speaker 1: version of that, where he is so desperate to preserve

1197
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:40,280
Speaker 1: what he wants for his version of the future that

1198
01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:44,360
Speaker 1: he will undercut almost anyone in his life, even if

1199
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:48,520
Speaker 1: he likes and respects them. He is not above completely

1200
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:52,360
Speaker 1: selling them out in order to preserve the future that

1201
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:56,880
Speaker 1: he feels entitled to. And John Soares kind of makes

1202
01:06:56,960 --> 01:07:01,320
Speaker 1: the argument that this movie The Streets, well, I guess

1203
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:03,720
Speaker 1: something that is historically true. I didn't know this, but

1204
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:06,640
Speaker 1: I was delighted to learn it that in times of

1205
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:12,880
Speaker 1: economic insecurity and in recessions and depressions, women are like

1206
01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:19,320
Speaker 1: statistically more likely to move with the time, and men

1207
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:22,440
Speaker 1: are more likely to cling to how things were and

1208
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:27,280
Speaker 1: be unwilling to change their situation. They're less likely to

1209
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:29,720
Speaker 1: want to move, They're less likely to want to switch professions.

1210
01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:31,720
Speaker 1: They're less likely to want to change the way that

1211
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:34,680
Speaker 1: their day to day life is versus women are far

1212
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:37,240
Speaker 1: more likely to be I guess like just kind of

1213
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:40,560
Speaker 1: more realistic about what's happening.

1214
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:41,919
Speaker 2: More adaptable.

1215
01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:44,200
Speaker 4: You know, there's a line in the movie and in

1216
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:47,680
Speaker 4: the scene where you know, redch and his opponent's wife

1217
01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:51,560
Speaker 4: are in bed, and it closes with I think he's

1218
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:54,160
Speaker 4: telling her, you know, the team's going to fold, or

1219
01:07:54,200 --> 01:07:55,680
Speaker 4: the team they know, I don't know what I'm going

1220
01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:59,360
Speaker 4: to do, and she says to him, you know, just

1221
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:02,800
Speaker 4: just use your imagination. That's what I've been doing. So

1222
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:05,400
Speaker 4: it's you know, And I think he uses that line

1223
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:09,040
Speaker 4: himself later on yea, on somebody else, but you know, but.

1224
01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:11,080
Speaker 1: He's still I mean, but I think that that's part

1225
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:14,200
Speaker 1: of like what is frustrating about the men in this

1226
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:17,320
Speaker 1: movie for me is like they even at the end,

1227
01:08:17,479 --> 01:08:19,360
Speaker 1: and I think the movie is conscious of this, Like

1228
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:23,120
Speaker 1: reg has not really changed because his last line is

1229
01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:26,000
Speaker 1: him lying about whether his wife is leaving him or not,

1230
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:28,400
Speaker 1: because you know, Lily is like, oh, is she coming

1231
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:32,160
Speaker 1: and he's like yeah, and we know she's not. And

1232
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:34,880
Speaker 1: it's like this it's kind of like a I think

1233
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:36,960
Speaker 1: viewed a certain way, and this is not the way

1234
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:39,360
Speaker 1: that this character is regarded in pop culture, but I

1235
01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:41,439
Speaker 1: liked looking at it that way of like, this guy

1236
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:44,360
Speaker 1: is kind of tragic. He can't accept that things are

1237
01:08:44,439 --> 01:08:48,880
Speaker 1: changing and that his life is changing, and that is

1238
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:51,320
Speaker 1: something that I think is like very relatable and everyone

1239
01:08:51,360 --> 01:08:55,160
Speaker 1: has experienced that to some degree. And also it's like

1240
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:59,120
Speaker 1: if you whatever, because we as the audience know that

1241
01:08:59,280 --> 01:09:04,000
Speaker 1: he is just like really committed to having the upper

1242
01:09:04,040 --> 01:09:06,800
Speaker 1: hand in his life in a way that's impossible, and

1243
01:09:07,360 --> 01:09:10,160
Speaker 1: I just thought it was interesting. But yeah, I think

1244
01:09:10,200 --> 01:09:13,160
Speaker 1: that viewed from that sort of perspective, the men in

1245
01:09:13,320 --> 01:09:19,120
Speaker 1: this movie are not flexible. They are completely inflexible and

1246
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:21,720
Speaker 1: they refuse to accept a future that is uncomfortable to them.

1247
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:25,479
Speaker 1: And the women in this movie are not like that.

1248
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:29,000
Speaker 1: They will. I mean, I think that the well, and

1249
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:32,439
Speaker 1: we'll talk about really shortly because it's like her character

1250
01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:34,920
Speaker 1: is so frustrating because I feel like she was inconsistent

1251
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:39,360
Speaker 1: with this. But with the characters of Suzanne, who is

1252
01:09:40,760 --> 01:09:47,000
Speaker 1: Suzanne Hanrahan I'm assuming, and Francine, they are both women

1253
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:51,960
Speaker 1: who are like, look, I was either uncomfortable, unsafe, and

1254
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:53,680
Speaker 1: so I got the fuck out and I moved on

1255
01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:57,360
Speaker 1: with my life. And that's like, that's what you have

1256
01:09:57,439 --> 01:10:00,400
Speaker 1: to do to survive. And I think it's a especially

1257
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:04,680
Speaker 1: effective with Francine because she knows that she's right to

1258
01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:07,040
Speaker 1: leave him. I honestly was I thought that the movie

1259
01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:08,880
Speaker 1: would end with them getting back together, and I was

1260
01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:09,960
Speaker 1: so thrilled that it didn't.

1261
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:12,640
Speaker 4: Absolutely, it feels like a good fake out. Yeah, she

1262
01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:16,599
Speaker 4: turns her car around and joins the parade. Yeah, I mean,

1263
01:10:16,640 --> 01:10:19,080
Speaker 4: and that was you know again, that was a thing

1264
01:10:19,160 --> 01:10:20,960
Speaker 4: that sort of struck me about the movie. You know,

1265
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:24,679
Speaker 4: in a lot of other movies, that's what would have happened.

1266
01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:27,160
Speaker 4: You know, they would have gotten together at the end.

1267
01:10:27,200 --> 01:10:29,719
Speaker 2: You know, she would have been like, Wow, you won

1268
01:10:30,360 --> 01:10:34,479
Speaker 2: the trophy at the championship game. Well here's me another

1269
01:10:34,760 --> 01:10:37,560
Speaker 2: trophy trophy.

1270
01:10:37,560 --> 01:10:40,799
Speaker 4: Well, you know, happy endings in movies, right, that's.

1271
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:45,000
Speaker 2: The Hollywood does love a happy ending.

1272
01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:48,160
Speaker 1: But the last shot of this movie is her driving

1273
01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:50,519
Speaker 1: in the other direction, and I feel like that great.

1274
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:53,479
Speaker 1: That was my favorite sort of thread in the movie.

1275
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:56,800
Speaker 1: Is I felt like because of the time, and I mean,

1276
01:10:56,840 --> 01:11:00,320
Speaker 1: this still happens in movies that they would how I

1277
01:11:00,400 --> 01:11:02,160
Speaker 1: end up reconciling When she showed up at the game

1278
01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:05,280
Speaker 1: at the end, I'm like, well, that's curtain's on, Franccene.

1279
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:09,240
Speaker 1: She's gonna be fucked over. But rewatching it again knowing

1280
01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:12,599
Speaker 1: that she leaves, it's even kind of like cooler. Yeah,

1281
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:16,840
Speaker 1: she was my favorite character because she consistently like she

1282
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:21,200
Speaker 1: has affection for her ex husband but also like doesn't

1283
01:11:21,240 --> 01:11:23,200
Speaker 1: want to get back together. And I think like in

1284
01:11:23,240 --> 01:11:26,880
Speaker 1: their interactions, it was really interesting because Paul Newman's character

1285
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:30,439
Speaker 1: is constantly trying to like manufacture a need that she

1286
01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:32,920
Speaker 1: would have for him, where he's he's constantly like, well,

1287
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:34,920
Speaker 1: if you need money, you can call me, and she's like,

1288
01:11:35,080 --> 01:11:37,559
Speaker 1: I don't bought, Like you know, she doesn't need him,

1289
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:40,960
Speaker 1: and he can't like he knows that at his core

1290
01:11:41,479 --> 01:11:43,519
Speaker 1: because he says it behind her back. He never says

1291
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:46,200
Speaker 1: it to her face, but he says behind her back like, oh, yeah,

1292
01:11:46,200 --> 01:11:48,800
Speaker 1: since my wife broke up with me, her life has

1293
01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:51,960
Speaker 1: been way better, Like he says that to Lily, So

1294
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:54,200
Speaker 1: it's like he knows it, but he can't really admit it.

1295
01:11:54,240 --> 01:11:57,560
Speaker 1: And it's just it felt like an interesting, like complicated

1296
01:11:57,600 --> 01:12:00,760
Speaker 1: relationship dynamic that feels like something that happens in the

1297
01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:05,120
Speaker 1: real world. And I just like that specific subplot I

1298
01:12:05,200 --> 01:12:08,720
Speaker 1: think kind of worked for me, especially because Francine was like,

1299
01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:12,360
Speaker 1: you know, touched that he seemed to recognize that when

1300
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:15,960
Speaker 1: she heard it from a third party. But he's right,

1301
01:12:16,240 --> 01:12:18,439
Speaker 1: and she wants to move on with her life and

1302
01:12:18,479 --> 01:12:21,040
Speaker 1: she does, and I thought that that was cool. Yes,

1303
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:26,600
Speaker 1: But for some reason, that same nuance in generosity is

1304
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:31,759
Speaker 1: not extended to Lily, which I found to be so weird.

1305
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:34,719
Speaker 1: I'm like, was that a studio note, Like two women

1306
01:12:34,760 --> 01:12:37,400
Speaker 1: can't leave their husbands, it can just be the one

1307
01:12:37,560 --> 01:12:41,120
Speaker 1: like what happened there? Because Lily, I think again, is

1308
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:44,960
Speaker 1: set up in an interesting way, but then it kind

1309
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:47,320
Speaker 1: of goes away by the ant of the movie, right.

1310
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:51,800
Speaker 2: It seems like she's being set up that her arc

1311
01:12:51,920 --> 01:12:58,040
Speaker 2: will be like she's mustering up the courage to actually

1312
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:00,960
Speaker 2: leave her husband, which is so that she seems to

1313
01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:05,280
Speaker 2: want to do for a while. She's like very vocal

1314
01:13:05,320 --> 01:13:09,960
Speaker 2: about how miserable she is in this town. She seems

1315
01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:15,120
Speaker 2: very miserable in the relationship. She's watching her husband flirting

1316
01:13:15,120 --> 01:13:19,960
Speaker 2: with other women, and she eventually I don't know if

1317
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:23,479
Speaker 2: there's some catalysts that gets her to finally leave him,

1318
01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:25,840
Speaker 2: or if it just kind of happens, but one day

1319
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:29,559
Speaker 2: she shows up on Also the fact that she goes

1320
01:13:29,640 --> 01:13:32,920
Speaker 2: to Reggie. I guess he's the only person who has

1321
01:13:32,960 --> 01:13:36,920
Speaker 2: like extended any kind of olive Brancher or anything.

1322
01:13:37,320 --> 01:13:38,840
Speaker 1: I sort of found that to be an act of

1323
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:42,519
Speaker 1: desperation because we've seen her fail to make friends and

1324
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:47,479
Speaker 1: connections inside of this small world that she's been forced into.

1325
01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:49,680
Speaker 2: Kind of right, because we see her hang out with

1326
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:54,680
Speaker 2: other hockey wives for lack of a better term.

1327
01:13:55,120 --> 01:13:56,800
Speaker 1: Who to be fair, and I think this is like

1328
01:13:56,880 --> 01:14:00,000
Speaker 1: a class thing where she and her husband ned because

1329
01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:02,600
Speaker 1: they're like from you know, well to do families, and

1330
01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:07,880
Speaker 1: they're both college educated. She is positioned as like smarter, hotter,

1331
01:14:08,080 --> 01:14:11,080
Speaker 1: better than the other hockey wives, which didn't feel fair.

1332
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:15,320
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, and she's not able to connect with them.

1333
01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:18,559
Speaker 2: So anyway, she leaves Bryden for a while and goes

1334
01:14:18,880 --> 01:14:23,320
Speaker 2: to Reggie and she's like, I'm moving in, I guess,

1335
01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:28,360
Speaker 2: and then he takes her. He introduces her to Franccene,

1336
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:30,920
Speaker 2: and what I would have liked to have happened was

1337
01:14:31,680 --> 01:14:34,240
Speaker 2: they become friends. They have a lot of common ground.

1338
01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:35,720
Speaker 2: You know they're both.

1339
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:38,400
Speaker 1: Which is like established, and the one scene they have together,

1340
01:14:38,520 --> 01:14:39,040
Speaker 1: it's like.

1341
01:14:39,080 --> 01:14:41,360
Speaker 2: Right, like there's a lot to learn for sure, like

1342
01:14:41,360 --> 01:14:45,240
Speaker 2: there are neither like current or former relationships with hockey

1343
01:14:45,320 --> 01:14:48,960
Speaker 2: players who don't know how to treat women well at all,

1344
01:14:49,640 --> 01:14:52,120
Speaker 2: and the women are sick of it. And I thought

1345
01:14:52,160 --> 01:14:58,599
Speaker 2: it was gonna be a situation where Franccene empowers Lily

1346
01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:01,839
Speaker 2: to like you know, write out on her own, because there's.

1347
01:15:01,640 --> 01:15:04,400
Speaker 1: Which it's like, I well, but that's what was so confusing,

1348
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:07,559
Speaker 1: because it felt like, you know, you can I don't know,

1349
01:15:07,680 --> 01:15:11,599
Speaker 1: like the makeover thing didn't bother me at all really

1350
01:15:11,680 --> 01:15:14,120
Speaker 1: because it's also like we're seeing Susanne or no, sorry,

1351
01:15:14,120 --> 01:15:18,040
Speaker 1: we're seeing Francceine at her job. So okay. I think

1352
01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:21,120
Speaker 1: a lesser movie would have reg be like we gotta

1353
01:15:21,240 --> 01:15:23,800
Speaker 1: make this girl over and you know, but like Reg

1354
01:15:24,360 --> 01:15:27,719
Speaker 1: right there and Francine and like whatever, it's a dated

1355
01:15:27,720 --> 01:15:29,760
Speaker 1: way of doing it. But I was like, okay, but

1356
01:15:29,800 --> 01:15:31,960
Speaker 1: then when but then when they go to the hockey game,

1357
01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:35,280
Speaker 1: like what happened? Because I really liked that conversation where

1358
01:15:35,720 --> 01:15:38,599
Speaker 1: Lily is and again it's like in the context of

1359
01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:42,680
Speaker 1: like what I mean, we're well into second wave feminism

1360
01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:45,600
Speaker 1: by the late seventies, but leaving your husband in the

1361
01:15:45,680 --> 01:15:50,880
Speaker 1: late seventies is different than currently, right, and there are

1362
01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:55,120
Speaker 1: different dynamics to that, and so I understand why, like

1363
01:15:55,439 --> 01:15:58,639
Speaker 1: Lily is nervous about it. It's a nerve wracking experience

1364
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:00,880
Speaker 1: to leave your spouse, no matter what is happening in

1365
01:16:01,720 --> 01:16:05,759
Speaker 1: But I liked how Francine like she said, it's lousy

1366
01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:07,879
Speaker 1: at first you think you're dying, but then it's fabulous.

1367
01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:09,640
Speaker 1: You become a new woman and you're like, this is

1368
01:16:09,680 --> 01:16:12,920
Speaker 1: such an interesting dynamic to set up, but then it

1369
01:16:12,960 --> 01:16:15,160
Speaker 1: just goes nowhere, it goes back nowhere.

1370
01:16:15,240 --> 01:16:18,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and the interesting you know Caitlyn too, I mean,

1371
01:16:18,640 --> 01:16:27,719
Speaker 4: like and Jamie, that's your name, right, Yeah, I agree.

1372
01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:31,800
Speaker 4: Like Lily, you know, that whole character sort of confuses

1373
01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:35,240
Speaker 4: me because you know, she makes very clear she doesn't

1374
01:16:35,360 --> 01:16:37,840
Speaker 4: like that life. They could go back to, you know,

1375
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:44,960
Speaker 4: something easier with money, and she leaves her husband but

1376
01:16:45,160 --> 01:16:49,160
Speaker 4: stays in the life. You know, she stays in the town.

1377
01:16:49,240 --> 01:16:51,600
Speaker 4: She goes to another hockey person, you know.

1378
01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:55,240
Speaker 1: So it's like, I do wonder, I mean, but I wondered,

1379
01:16:55,280 --> 01:16:58,200
Speaker 1: like if that was just like temporary and then she

1380
01:16:58,400 --> 01:17:00,600
Speaker 1: because it was like, I mean, I guess it took Franccene.

1381
01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:03,160
Speaker 1: We don't know how long she and reg have been separated,

1382
01:17:03,240 --> 01:17:06,519
Speaker 1: or how long Francine had to save or whatever it

1383
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:09,000
Speaker 1: would take for her to start her restart her life

1384
01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:12,559
Speaker 1: somewhere else, But I don't know. It seemed like the

1385
01:17:12,640 --> 01:17:16,320
Speaker 1: movie was setting us up for like, oh, Franccene could

1386
01:17:16,600 --> 01:17:20,400
Speaker 1: inspire or give Lily the confidence to do something similar.

1387
01:17:21,000 --> 01:17:24,800
Speaker 4: Yes, coach, I agree, like I empower her coachure, so

1388
01:17:25,439 --> 01:17:27,720
Speaker 4: that that part was a little bit hard not to

1389
01:17:27,920 --> 01:17:30,120
Speaker 4: just of it. It was like, oh, I didn't think

1390
01:17:30,439 --> 01:17:33,759
Speaker 4: that was going to be the result of this, you know, right, because.

1391
01:17:33,600 --> 01:17:37,000
Speaker 1: Then it's like Ned, Ned does not change at all.

1392
01:17:37,120 --> 01:17:40,599
Speaker 1: I know that, like symbolically him doing the strip tease

1393
01:17:40,720 --> 01:17:43,040
Speaker 1: is supposed to mean something, but it just like that

1394
01:17:43,120 --> 01:17:45,960
Speaker 1: did nothing for me at all. I found his character

1395
01:17:45,960 --> 01:17:48,000
Speaker 1: frustrating throughout. I mean, as you know that, I just

1396
01:17:48,040 --> 01:17:49,920
Speaker 1: like did not take to that character at all. I

1397
01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:53,400
Speaker 1: didn't like him. I thought he was both snobby and

1398
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:57,160
Speaker 1: exactly all of the things that he claimed that he

1399
01:17:57,280 --> 01:18:00,840
Speaker 1: was above. Like yeah, I just I just didn't I

1400
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:03,640
Speaker 1: thought he's like such a snotty little asshole who is

1401
01:18:03,960 --> 01:18:07,240
Speaker 1: horrible to his wife. I didn't know how to communicate

1402
01:18:07,280 --> 01:18:11,080
Speaker 1: with her. Again, a legitimate relationship dynamic to explore, but

1403
01:18:11,200 --> 01:18:13,040
Speaker 1: like I felt like at the end, he's like, now

1404
01:18:13,160 --> 01:18:15,200
Speaker 1: I got my wife back and she's got this cool

1405
01:18:15,200 --> 01:18:17,640
Speaker 1: new makeover, and it's like, but you did nothing, You

1406
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:20,680
Speaker 1: did nothing. And the last thing he did before he

1407
01:18:20,720 --> 01:18:25,680
Speaker 1: did his weird little routine that I didn't like, was like,

1408
01:18:25,800 --> 01:18:28,800
Speaker 1: talk shit about her on the radio. And I was like,

1409
01:18:29,479 --> 01:18:31,080
Speaker 1: is ay I gonna tell her about that? Say, we're

1410
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:34,360
Speaker 1: gonna tell her that he called her a hot piece

1411
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:37,599
Speaker 1: of ass who's an alcoholic that hates him on the radio,

1412
01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:41,400
Speaker 1: because I would not be thrilled to hear my spouse

1413
01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:42,639
Speaker 1: saying shit like that.

1414
01:18:43,080 --> 01:18:45,800
Speaker 2: True. But then I'd be like, but he's exactly right.

1415
01:18:45,960 --> 01:18:48,160
Speaker 2: I am a hot who hates.

1416
01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:52,200
Speaker 1: Him, and I'd stop drinking if I if I just

1417
01:18:52,320 --> 01:18:52,760
Speaker 1: left him.

1418
01:18:53,120 --> 01:18:56,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, when Francine and Lily show up

1419
01:18:56,720 --> 01:18:59,040
Speaker 2: to the game at the end, one of them says,

1420
01:18:59,479 --> 01:19:02,599
Speaker 2: what am I even doing here? And I'm like, yeah,

1421
01:19:02,680 --> 01:19:04,840
Speaker 2: your question, what are you even doing there?

1422
01:19:05,040 --> 01:19:06,479
Speaker 1: I wish that I knew the answer.

1423
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:10,519
Speaker 4: Well, I think if if Lily wanted to go to

1424
01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:13,559
Speaker 4: that last game. She did not really have a lot

1425
01:19:13,560 --> 01:19:16,880
Speaker 4: of friends among the other wives. True, you know, so

1426
01:19:17,360 --> 01:19:20,160
Speaker 4: you know, like as an ally maybe And there is

1427
01:19:20,200 --> 01:19:22,639
Speaker 4: another scene and you know, you know, we've talked mainly

1428
01:19:22,640 --> 01:19:26,640
Speaker 4: about the same two three women, but there are some

1429
01:19:26,680 --> 01:19:28,800
Speaker 4: scenes with the other wise. Like there's a scene where

1430
01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:30,880
Speaker 4: the wives are all in their car waiting for their

1431
01:19:30,960 --> 01:19:33,479
Speaker 4: husbands to get home from a bus trip. And I

1432
01:19:33,800 --> 01:19:36,439
Speaker 4: thought it's a sort of a sad scene, but in

1433
01:19:36,520 --> 01:19:39,000
Speaker 4: the in the in the same way, they kind of

1434
01:19:39,040 --> 01:19:41,960
Speaker 4: like have to kind of you know, form their own

1435
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:44,760
Speaker 4: little group and rally around each other and support each

1436
01:19:44,760 --> 01:19:47,919
Speaker 4: other because they clearly are not, you know, too psyched

1437
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:51,040
Speaker 4: with with the life either. And there you know what

1438
01:19:51,120 --> 01:19:54,000
Speaker 4: their husbands are doing, and you know that they're gone

1439
01:19:54,080 --> 01:19:54,680
Speaker 4: and this and that.

1440
01:19:55,160 --> 01:19:59,640
Speaker 2: I wish since this is mostly an ensemble cast, you know,

1441
01:19:59,680 --> 01:20:02,519
Speaker 2: you've got Paul Newman is like the main character, but

1442
01:20:02,520 --> 01:20:06,720
Speaker 2: you've got a lot of little subplots with various other characters,

1443
01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:10,920
Speaker 2: that there was more focus on the wives of these

1444
01:20:11,040 --> 01:20:17,440
Speaker 2: hockey players, because to me, they're in more interesting situations

1445
01:20:17,479 --> 01:20:21,360
Speaker 2: than especially because so many of the men are characterized

1446
01:20:21,400 --> 01:20:25,680
Speaker 2: as either just being like hot headed or trying to

1447
01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:30,880
Speaker 2: prove something about their masculinity, or their sleezy creeps, or

1448
01:20:30,920 --> 01:20:33,760
Speaker 2: their wildly homophobic you know, all of this stuff that

1449
01:20:33,800 --> 01:20:37,360
Speaker 2: I don't want to see. And then the women are

1450
01:20:37,800 --> 01:20:41,120
Speaker 2: in this position of you know, it's a time where

1451
01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:45,559
Speaker 2: a lot of people in like hetero couples, the women

1452
01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:51,160
Speaker 2: were still relying on their husbands for sustainable like for

1453
01:20:51,640 --> 01:20:55,960
Speaker 2: his income, and women in the workplace were not as

1454
01:20:56,040 --> 01:20:58,840
Speaker 2: welcome as they are today. So it was hard to

1455
01:20:58,960 --> 01:21:02,120
Speaker 2: be a single one owner to be, you know, someone

1456
01:21:02,280 --> 01:21:05,840
Speaker 2: earning your own way as a woman at that time,

1457
01:21:06,160 --> 01:21:11,000
Speaker 2: and so they're relying on these men who are not

1458
01:21:11,240 --> 01:21:14,760
Speaker 2: treating them well at all. But it's also very like

1459
01:21:15,520 --> 01:21:21,559
Speaker 2: normalized culturally, but they still are like heavily drinking about it.

1460
01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:22,639
Speaker 2: There's a scene where.

1461
01:21:22,880 --> 01:21:25,800
Speaker 1: I will actually I liked the scene. I think you're

1462
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:30,120
Speaker 1: gonna reference because I yeah, it's I'm trying to like

1463
01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:32,599
Speaker 1: put this through because it's like, it's not like there

1464
01:21:32,600 --> 01:21:36,839
Speaker 1: were not movies that had women protagonists in the seventies,

1465
01:21:36,840 --> 01:21:38,640
Speaker 1: but in sports movies, I know that that was I

1466
01:21:38,960 --> 01:21:42,720
Speaker 1: feel like, I don't know, I feel like I feel

1467
01:21:42,760 --> 01:21:44,880
Speaker 1: a little defensive of Nancy Dad because I will say,

1468
01:21:44,920 --> 01:21:50,280
Speaker 1: I do think that in this movie, the men, with

1469
01:21:50,400 --> 01:21:53,920
Speaker 1: the exception of Reg, who at least you see a

1470
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:56,360
Speaker 1: few layers of even though I kind of dislike all

1471
01:21:56,400 --> 01:21:59,200
Speaker 1: of them, but you do see different lairs of this character,

1472
01:21:59,280 --> 01:22:01,479
Speaker 1: so there's like no and how he's written. But I

1473
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:05,400
Speaker 1: think that the women that are presented far more broadly

1474
01:22:05,479 --> 01:22:08,800
Speaker 1: than the men are because most of the hockey team,

1475
01:22:08,880 --> 01:22:12,439
Speaker 1: except for like Ned and Reg, are like just like,

1476
01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:15,160
Speaker 1: here's this guy, and this is what he does and

1477
01:22:15,200 --> 01:22:17,800
Speaker 1: how he reacts. Like here's a sexist guy, here's a

1478
01:22:17,920 --> 01:22:20,960
Speaker 1: violent guy, here's a homophobic guy. And you're like, there's

1479
01:22:21,000 --> 01:22:23,840
Speaker 1: all these guys, and they're written in the very, very

1480
01:22:23,880 --> 01:22:29,120
Speaker 1: broad way that men in raunchy comedies are, which is

1481
01:22:29,200 --> 01:22:31,840
Speaker 1: kind of why I don't like the genre. But I

1482
01:22:31,920 --> 01:22:34,200
Speaker 1: will say that, like, I mean, I even think back

1483
01:22:34,240 --> 01:22:37,000
Speaker 1: to like raunchy comedies that came out when we were

1484
01:22:37,640 --> 01:22:40,559
Speaker 1: the target audience, and I'm thinking like early hangover movies

1485
01:22:40,600 --> 01:22:42,920
Speaker 1: and like John Appatow movies and shit like that, and

1486
01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:46,800
Speaker 1: I feel like in this movie you get women, like

1487
01:22:46,960 --> 01:22:52,400
Speaker 1: more different kinds of women than you did like thirty

1488
01:22:52,479 --> 01:22:55,439
Speaker 1: years later in some cases. But true, I think the

1489
01:22:55,479 --> 01:22:58,120
Speaker 1: hockey wives are the most broadly written women that appear

1490
01:22:58,240 --> 01:23:01,000
Speaker 1: in the movie. And I didn't love that because I

1491
01:23:01,000 --> 01:23:02,920
Speaker 1: feel like it in the same way that I didn't

1492
01:23:02,960 --> 01:23:05,760
Speaker 1: like when Ned was like a snotty like I went

1493
01:23:05,840 --> 01:23:09,519
Speaker 1: to whatever fucking school he went to, and so I'm

1494
01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:12,920
Speaker 1: better than most of the guys on this team, like

1495
01:23:12,960 --> 01:23:15,320
Speaker 1: it's just like a moral superiority. And Lily kind of

1496
01:23:15,320 --> 01:23:18,120
Speaker 1: takes that into how she treats the hockey wives, where

1497
01:23:18,120 --> 01:23:20,599
Speaker 1: I think she treats them kind of as like bimbos

1498
01:23:20,600 --> 01:23:22,960
Speaker 1: who aren't as smart as her, and it seems like

1499
01:23:23,000 --> 01:23:25,280
Speaker 1: that is a part of the reason that she doesn't

1500
01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:27,880
Speaker 1: hang out with them, because it seems like the other

1501
01:23:28,120 --> 01:23:30,559
Speaker 1: hockey wives, who I don't know if we get names

1502
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:34,120
Speaker 1: for them, they seem like they I mean, they have

1503
01:23:34,160 --> 01:23:35,439
Speaker 1: a lot in common. A lot of what they have

1504
01:23:35,479 --> 01:23:39,400
Speaker 1: in common sucks. Is like they are sort of along

1505
01:23:39,479 --> 01:23:43,880
Speaker 1: for the ride of their husband's career and it seems

1506
01:23:44,040 --> 01:23:48,320
Speaker 1: isolating and depressing and frustrating. And I thought it was

1507
01:23:48,720 --> 01:23:50,760
Speaker 1: she's made a joke of. But we see the same

1508
01:23:50,800 --> 01:23:53,519
Speaker 1: hockey wife a few different times who's constantly like kind

1509
01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:58,719
Speaker 1: of referencing like Johnny either like Johnny, Yes, Johnny's who's Johnny.

1510
01:23:58,840 --> 01:24:01,960
Speaker 2: I have no idea which Johnny is, but he's one

1511
01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:02,400
Speaker 2: of them.

1512
01:24:02,320 --> 01:24:05,240
Speaker 1: One of those. But I thought Johnny's wife like she's

1513
01:24:05,400 --> 01:24:07,559
Speaker 1: played for laughs mostly, But I thought it was like,

1514
01:24:08,160 --> 01:24:10,880
Speaker 1: I don't know, I didn't. I liked her like she

1515
01:24:11,040 --> 01:24:13,360
Speaker 1: was she was like trying to make the best of

1516
01:24:13,400 --> 01:24:16,040
Speaker 1: what she seemed to know was a bad situation. But

1517
01:24:16,120 --> 01:24:18,000
Speaker 1: she's like I'm trying to get my husband to read

1518
01:24:18,040 --> 01:24:20,360
Speaker 1: a book, or like I'm trying to get my husband

1519
01:24:20,439 --> 01:24:24,320
Speaker 1: to do anything except be a fucking goon, which is

1520
01:24:24,360 --> 01:24:27,160
Speaker 1: like whatever, what like all the guys in the team are,

1521
01:24:27,920 --> 01:24:30,840
Speaker 1: and it's you know, it's not. Is it the most

1522
01:24:30,840 --> 01:24:33,880
Speaker 1: progressive thing ever? No, But I didn't feel like there is.

1523
01:24:34,040 --> 01:24:37,080
Speaker 1: Like she was like an interesting character that I wish

1524
01:24:37,120 --> 01:24:39,400
Speaker 1: it had been played for more than last because when

1525
01:24:40,600 --> 01:24:43,120
Speaker 1: one of the fights that Lily and Ned have in public,

1526
01:24:43,640 --> 01:24:46,000
Speaker 1: you know, Lily basically ends by being like me and

1527
01:24:46,040 --> 01:24:49,479
Speaker 1: Ned are better than everyone here, bye, and like leaves right.

1528
01:24:50,080 --> 01:24:54,160
Speaker 1: And Johnny's wife, who God, I wish she had a

1529
01:24:54,240 --> 01:24:56,639
Speaker 1: name respond to that by being like, oh, I really

1530
01:24:56,680 --> 01:25:00,120
Speaker 1: feel for her, and you're like, that's I don't know,

1531
01:25:00,200 --> 01:25:04,880
Speaker 1: I whatever, Like I guess I understood like those. It

1532
01:25:04,960 --> 01:25:07,679
Speaker 1: seems like it's implied in the movie that those women

1533
01:25:07,720 --> 01:25:11,160
Speaker 1: don't connect with each other because of class differences. But

1534
01:25:12,200 --> 01:25:14,719
Speaker 1: I felt like the hockey wives I thought were played

1535
01:25:14,760 --> 01:25:17,400
Speaker 1: broadly in a way that it would have been because

1536
01:25:17,560 --> 01:25:22,760
Speaker 1: I appreciated that the movie made time for women at all,

1537
01:25:23,040 --> 01:25:27,439
Speaker 1: which again it's like, I like, sports movies almost never do,

1538
01:25:27,720 --> 01:25:30,600
Speaker 1: and if you, if you do, it's like the supportive

1539
01:25:30,680 --> 01:25:34,840
Speaker 1: wife like grabbing their husband's hand being like go.

1540
01:25:34,200 --> 01:25:38,040
Speaker 7: Go coach a baby or whatever the fuck, which is

1541
01:25:38,080 --> 01:25:41,080
Speaker 7: like so fucking boring. But it's like how a lot

1542
01:25:41,080 --> 01:25:44,720
Speaker 7: of women appear in sports movies at all. But there

1543
01:25:44,840 --> 01:25:47,479
Speaker 7: was especially because it's like Nancy Dad seemed to want

1544
01:25:47,560 --> 01:25:48,880
Speaker 7: to include women.

1545
01:25:48,720 --> 01:25:52,840
Speaker 1: But it felt like well to an extent, like I'm

1546
01:25:52,880 --> 01:25:56,920
Speaker 1: happy to include educated women, but like it seemed like

1547
01:25:56,960 --> 01:25:58,920
Speaker 1: the hockey wives were. I just feel like there was

1548
01:25:59,000 --> 01:26:02,040
Speaker 1: room for them to be played off as more of

1549
01:26:02,120 --> 01:26:04,000
Speaker 1: kind of one liners. But I liked that scene in

1550
01:26:04,040 --> 01:26:06,080
Speaker 1: the car where it was like, even though these women

1551
01:26:06,120 --> 01:26:08,840
Speaker 1: don't get along, they do have a common struggle and

1552
01:26:08,880 --> 01:26:11,680
Speaker 1: they are pushed aside and expected to put up with

1553
01:26:11,760 --> 01:26:15,879
Speaker 1: all of this shit, and it's like leading to addiction

1554
01:26:16,000 --> 01:26:17,360
Speaker 1: issues for them, and.

1555
01:26:17,360 --> 01:26:20,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, they all seem to be self medicating to fight

1556
01:26:21,200 --> 01:26:27,240
Speaker 2: the just either loneliness or abuse that they're putting up with. Right,

1557
01:26:28,040 --> 01:26:32,120
Speaker 2: can we talk about Suzanne, because.

1558
01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:33,240
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Suzanne.

1559
01:26:33,760 --> 01:26:36,120
Speaker 2: So Suzanne is the character. I think she's only in

1560
01:26:36,240 --> 01:26:38,240
Speaker 2: one scene, yeah, which.

1561
01:26:38,000 --> 01:26:41,800
Speaker 1: Is wild because the actor who plays her is like

1562
01:26:42,520 --> 01:26:46,599
Speaker 1: so successful and won an Oscar like this same year.

1563
01:26:47,000 --> 01:26:49,680
Speaker 2: Oh wow, what's her name? I didn't even look it up.

1564
01:26:49,920 --> 01:26:54,040
Speaker 1: Well, Linda Dylan. You probably my dad picked up on this.

1565
01:26:54,120 --> 01:26:56,479
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, she is she? I think most

1566
01:26:56,640 --> 01:27:00,760
Speaker 1: iconically plays the mom in a Christmas Story. But she

1567
01:27:01,520 --> 01:27:04,439
Speaker 1: or no, sorry, she was nominated this same year for

1568
01:27:04,520 --> 01:27:11,160
Speaker 1: playing I think the mom character in Close Encounters. Okay,

1569
01:27:11,640 --> 01:27:16,240
Speaker 1: but whatever. She's like a very very successful actor. But

1570
01:27:16,320 --> 01:27:18,479
Speaker 1: she's only in this movie for one minute, for.

1571
01:27:18,479 --> 01:27:23,000
Speaker 2: One scene, and it's the scene where she's in bed

1572
01:27:23,200 --> 01:27:30,600
Speaker 2: with Reggie, and she's talking about how her husband Hanrahan,

1573
01:27:31,520 --> 01:27:33,840
Speaker 2: when he was like out on the road for a game,

1574
01:27:34,680 --> 01:27:38,160
Speaker 2: how she and another hockey wife they would get together

1575
01:27:38,400 --> 01:27:41,400
Speaker 2: and talk about how depressed and lonely they were without

1576
01:27:41,600 --> 01:27:44,760
Speaker 2: the men, and then also how they lamented that they

1577
01:27:44,840 --> 01:27:48,080
Speaker 2: never did much of anything themselves, which I feel like

1578
01:27:48,160 --> 01:27:51,960
Speaker 2: is also maybe what Lily struggles with to some degree,

1579
01:27:52,000 --> 01:27:56,480
Speaker 2: where she's like, I'm not doing anything but like supporting

1580
01:27:56,600 --> 01:27:59,280
Speaker 2: my husband in his career, but like what about or

1581
01:27:59,320 --> 01:28:02,880
Speaker 2: maybe this is just like headcanon that I'm assigning to Lily.

1582
01:28:03,080 --> 01:28:06,360
Speaker 2: But anyway, Suzanne's talking about how like, oh, I never

1583
01:28:06,520 --> 01:28:09,680
Speaker 2: did anything for myself, and then she goes on to

1584
01:28:09,720 --> 01:28:13,280
Speaker 2: describe how one night when she and this other hockey

1585
01:28:13,280 --> 01:28:16,920
Speaker 2: wife were hanging out, they were drinking and they started

1586
01:28:16,960 --> 01:28:21,639
Speaker 2: fooling around, but then they kept getting together and having

1587
01:28:21,680 --> 01:28:25,679
Speaker 2: sex sober, and that they were like engaging in this

1588
01:28:26,040 --> 01:28:32,160
Speaker 2: like sexual relationship that they were both into. And she's like, hey, Reg,

1589
01:28:32,240 --> 01:28:35,720
Speaker 2: have you ever considered sleeping with men? And at first

1590
01:28:35,760 --> 01:28:38,840
Speaker 2: he says no, but then he's like, who knows, maybe

1591
01:28:38,840 --> 01:28:42,679
Speaker 2: I'll start sleeping with old goalies. And then I'm like, okay,

1592
01:28:42,760 --> 01:28:43,640
Speaker 2: he's I don't know.

1593
01:28:44,479 --> 01:28:48,120
Speaker 1: That scene is like almost and then it's so frustrating.

1594
01:28:48,240 --> 01:28:51,519
Speaker 8: But it's also like I feel like that's like Reg sucks,

1595
01:28:51,560 --> 01:28:54,320
Speaker 8: and it's like it's so frustrating to see a character

1596
01:28:54,360 --> 01:28:57,160
Speaker 8: that in their more private moments seems to be a

1597
01:28:57,280 --> 01:29:00,240
Speaker 8: better person than they are in their public.

1598
01:29:00,120 --> 01:29:04,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Because again the whole reason this scene even

1599
01:29:04,320 --> 01:29:07,160
Speaker 2: happens narratively in the movie is that so he now

1600
01:29:07,240 --> 01:29:12,280
Speaker 2: has information that he uses against his opponent in a

1601
01:29:12,600 --> 01:29:18,080
Speaker 2: way that like outs this guy's wife, like disparages her

1602
01:29:18,280 --> 01:29:22,800
Speaker 2: for her queerness, and he's like using that as ammunition

1603
01:29:22,960 --> 01:29:25,360
Speaker 2: to try to win the game and like for his

1604
01:29:25,400 --> 01:29:30,639
Speaker 2: own personal benefit. He does something similar with the general manager,

1605
01:29:30,760 --> 01:29:33,479
Speaker 2: that guy Joe, where he's like, Hey, remember that night

1606
01:29:33,680 --> 01:29:36,080
Speaker 2: that you I walked in on you and you were

1607
01:29:36,120 --> 01:29:39,880
Speaker 2: wearing like women's lingerie and then you came on to me. Well,

1608
01:29:39,920 --> 01:29:42,320
Speaker 2: I don't have to tell anyone about that as long

1609
01:29:42,360 --> 01:29:45,439
Speaker 2: as you give me. So he basically like blackmails him

1610
01:29:45,680 --> 01:29:48,760
Speaker 2: to learn the owner who the owner of the team is.

1611
01:29:49,040 --> 01:29:51,320
Speaker 1: That's something that yeah, And then that's like I do

1612
01:29:51,360 --> 01:29:55,000
Speaker 1: think the Reges is a super villain because I do

1613
01:29:55,600 --> 01:30:00,080
Speaker 1: almost believe him when he says that he like he

1614
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:04,519
Speaker 1: he's like, I get it. It's the seventies, queer people exist, Like,

1615
01:30:04,720 --> 01:30:08,400
Speaker 1: I do believe that he understands that. But the fact

1616
01:30:08,400 --> 01:30:14,320
Speaker 1: that he understands that and is not above exploiting societal

1617
01:30:14,320 --> 01:30:18,639
Speaker 1: homophobia against people that he knows and says he likes,

1618
01:30:19,240 --> 01:30:23,640
Speaker 1: it's like, that's that's extra Evil's that's extra evil.

1619
01:30:23,800 --> 01:30:27,120
Speaker 4: And in that scene, you know, like first of all,

1620
01:30:27,160 --> 01:30:30,080
Speaker 4: the scene where he you know, kind of bates the opponent,

1621
01:30:30,520 --> 01:30:34,560
Speaker 4: the goalie, right, you know, with this information that he

1622
01:30:34,640 --> 01:30:39,360
Speaker 4: has about his wife, you know, from a hockey perspective,

1623
01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:44,040
Speaker 4: you know, nobody, nobody stands on the ice and shouts

1624
01:30:44,040 --> 01:30:45,720
Speaker 4: at someone and then moves over.

1625
01:30:45,840 --> 01:30:48,519
Speaker 1: You know, Oh, they're not shouting plot points at each.

1626
01:30:48,320 --> 01:30:51,080
Speaker 4: Other on the Oh no no. So that that was

1627
01:30:51,160 --> 01:30:53,120
Speaker 4: like annoying because some of the you know, some of

1628
01:30:53,240 --> 01:30:55,759
Speaker 4: the stuff with the Hanson brothers, the hockey, the skating,

1629
01:30:55,880 --> 01:30:59,439
Speaker 4: the this that the hitting you know is legit. Those

1630
01:30:59,439 --> 01:31:04,479
Speaker 4: guys were really hockey players. But so Reg dunlop and

1631
01:31:04,640 --> 01:31:08,639
Speaker 4: rages the goalie who attacks him finally after a goal

1632
01:31:08,720 --> 01:31:13,439
Speaker 4: and it's a big fight. Now does anybody know at first,

1633
01:31:13,640 --> 01:31:16,200
Speaker 4: like what caused this big fight? Did anybody hear what

1634
01:31:16,280 --> 01:31:19,800
Speaker 4: Reggie was saying? I don't think so? Just the goalie? Yeah,

1635
01:31:19,880 --> 01:31:23,200
Speaker 4: so he he could have left it there on the ice, right,

1636
01:31:23,479 --> 01:31:25,719
Speaker 4: But then he comes in and tells his whole team

1637
01:31:25,840 --> 01:31:27,680
Speaker 4: like when they asked him, would you say, you know,

1638
01:31:28,360 --> 01:31:34,479
Speaker 4: and he you know someone else that he was you know,

1639
01:31:34,800 --> 01:31:37,920
Speaker 4: I don't know that that is diabolical.

1640
01:31:38,360 --> 01:31:41,840
Speaker 1: Yes, it's evil, Like it's evil, and it's first because

1641
01:31:42,160 --> 01:31:47,280
Speaker 1: I didn't hate their scene together before I saw the

1642
01:31:47,320 --> 01:31:51,040
Speaker 1: scene after, because it felt like these are themes and

1643
01:31:51,240 --> 01:31:54,960
Speaker 1: just like queer people like just appearing in movies at

1644
01:31:55,000 --> 01:31:57,120
Speaker 1: all in a way that was like it seemed like

1645
01:31:57,160 --> 01:32:00,240
Speaker 1: they both accepted each other in that scene, and like

1646
01:32:00,320 --> 01:32:04,080
Speaker 1: the language is not great, but it's like for the time,

1647
01:32:04,200 --> 01:32:07,280
Speaker 1: it was like, wow, this it seems very unlikely that

1648
01:32:07,360 --> 01:32:12,080
Speaker 1: this was appearing in like popular summer comedies at the time,

1649
01:32:12,560 --> 01:32:17,479
Speaker 1: So okay, like you know, I can navigate around the

1650
01:32:17,600 --> 01:32:21,280
Speaker 1: dated elements of it, but yeah, it's yeah, he was

1651
01:32:21,320 --> 01:32:23,719
Speaker 1: so evil about that. And I feel like she because

1652
01:32:23,720 --> 01:32:27,400
Speaker 1: that character never comes back. It doesn't come back around

1653
01:32:27,439 --> 01:32:31,360
Speaker 1: in a satisfying way, but in the same way. I mean,

1654
01:32:31,400 --> 01:32:33,040
Speaker 1: I love her. I like that scene. I think the

1655
01:32:33,160 --> 01:32:34,880
Speaker 1: last thing that we were talking about, dad, that I

1656
01:32:34,880 --> 01:32:38,519
Speaker 1: think is extra evil about Reg in that situation is

1657
01:32:38,520 --> 01:32:41,799
Speaker 1: that she mentions in that scene that when her husband

1658
01:32:41,840 --> 01:32:44,920
Speaker 1: found out that she had had sex with women, he

1659
01:32:45,080 --> 01:32:47,839
Speaker 1: was so abusive to her that she was in the hospital.

1660
01:32:47,880 --> 01:32:51,360
Speaker 1: And it's like, well, Reg clearly doesn't care about that, yeah,

1661
01:32:51,400 --> 01:32:54,680
Speaker 1: because he then taunts her husband that he knows to

1662
01:32:54,720 --> 01:32:58,479
Speaker 1: be abusive, and she says that like she's hiding out

1663
01:32:58,520 --> 01:33:00,920
Speaker 1: from him, Like it's just sounds like she was in

1664
01:33:00,920 --> 01:33:06,599
Speaker 1: this tremendously abusive relationship, which again I believe it like seems,

1665
01:33:06,840 --> 01:33:10,200
Speaker 1: you know whatever, that that still happens. But the fact

1666
01:33:10,280 --> 01:33:14,519
Speaker 1: that like our movie starting Hero then does that, I

1667
01:33:14,520 --> 01:33:17,320
Speaker 1: feel like it did undercut the fact that the movie

1668
01:33:17,360 --> 01:33:20,160
Speaker 1: went out of its way to say like that her

1669
01:33:20,240 --> 01:33:22,720
Speaker 1: having a queer relationship. Not only was he up said

1670
01:33:22,720 --> 01:33:26,679
Speaker 1: about being cheated on, but also this thing that felt

1671
01:33:26,880 --> 01:33:28,439
Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean that I guess you can

1672
01:33:28,880 --> 01:33:30,920
Speaker 1: tell us for the time, like there seemed like there

1673
01:33:30,960 --> 01:33:34,640
Speaker 1: was talk among the men of just confusion and like

1674
01:33:34,880 --> 01:33:38,559
Speaker 1: hateful confusion in handra hand and the whole team's case,

1675
01:33:38,560 --> 01:33:41,640
Speaker 1: They're like, well, if my wife has a relationship with

1676
01:33:41,680 --> 01:33:44,439
Speaker 1: a woman, then am I gay and I can't be gay?

1677
01:33:44,560 --> 01:33:47,320
Speaker 1: And like just like stuff that makes no sense.

1678
01:33:47,560 --> 01:33:51,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was a stretch. I think I don't know.

1679
01:33:51,080 --> 01:33:54,680
Speaker 1: That that, you know, I was like people people believe that.

1680
01:33:55,439 --> 01:33:59,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm not sure that you know, but when I

1681
01:33:59,240 --> 01:34:01,439
Speaker 4: was a kid, I don't really think that that is

1682
01:34:01,479 --> 01:34:02,840
Speaker 4: what somebody thought.

1683
01:34:03,520 --> 01:34:04,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like it doesn't make any sense, but

1684
01:34:05,040 --> 01:34:07,400
Speaker 1: it Yeah, okay, I was, I was curious about that,

1685
01:34:07,479 --> 01:34:11,920
Speaker 1: but it Yeah, I mean just again, reg Reg sucks.

1686
01:34:12,640 --> 01:34:14,680
Speaker 1: I love Paul Newman and I love Salad, but I

1687
01:34:14,720 --> 01:34:19,240
Speaker 1: hate Reg And it is what it is. But I

1688
01:34:19,280 --> 01:34:21,800
Speaker 1: did think that it was again, it's like this, this

1689
01:34:21,920 --> 01:34:25,599
Speaker 1: movie feels like it's doing incremental stuff in this genre

1690
01:34:26,479 --> 01:34:30,680
Speaker 1: that you don't see decades later. So I do appreciate that.

1691
01:34:30,840 --> 01:34:35,920
Speaker 1: It's like there is a queer character who is like

1692
01:34:36,400 --> 01:34:40,720
Speaker 1: open about it is cool, is performed in a way

1693
01:34:40,760 --> 01:34:45,920
Speaker 1: that felt authentic and cool. But also the seventies element

1694
01:34:46,040 --> 01:34:49,760
Speaker 1: of it is that they're immediately put in danger and

1695
01:34:49,800 --> 01:34:51,200
Speaker 1: then never appear in the movie again.

1696
01:34:51,560 --> 01:34:56,599
Speaker 2: So and you know, she's she's talking about her sexual

1697
01:34:56,680 --> 01:34:59,280
Speaker 2: relationship with a woman, but the scene we're seeing on

1698
01:34:59,439 --> 01:35:03,679
Speaker 2: screen is her in a sexual situation with a man,

1699
01:35:03,880 --> 01:35:08,720
Speaker 2: because heaven forbid we see like queer romance or sexuality

1700
01:35:08,840 --> 01:35:11,000
Speaker 2: actually on screen at that time.

1701
01:35:11,120 --> 01:35:14,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. Sure, or And it's like I sort of chalked

1702
01:35:14,320 --> 01:35:17,559
Speaker 1: that up more to like, well, how did people talk

1703
01:35:17,560 --> 01:35:21,599
Speaker 1: about bisexuality in the seventies, did they know? How did

1704
01:35:21,640 --> 01:35:24,519
Speaker 1: they have the tools? I just sort of assudent they did.

1705
01:35:25,200 --> 01:35:29,720
Speaker 2: But also like the way that raunchy comedies of like

1706
01:35:30,280 --> 01:35:33,920
Speaker 2: the nineties and two thousands would have, which.

1707
01:35:33,720 --> 01:35:36,240
Speaker 1: I think are worse than this movie. Honest, they are.

1708
01:35:36,560 --> 01:35:39,000
Speaker 2: They Yeah, and we've talked about I think I've like

1709
01:35:39,040 --> 01:35:42,920
Speaker 2: speculated as to why, but the way that those movies

1710
01:35:43,000 --> 01:35:48,960
Speaker 2: will have visibility of queer characters or of people of color,

1711
01:35:49,040 --> 01:35:52,280
Speaker 2: but they're only there to then be like punching bags

1712
01:35:52,880 --> 01:35:58,200
Speaker 2: to the main characters who are just saying horrible things

1713
01:35:58,280 --> 01:36:03,240
Speaker 2: and like making jokes at their expense of like what

1714
01:36:03,320 --> 01:36:07,040
Speaker 2: in whatever way they are marginalized, That's that's why they're there,

1715
01:36:07,200 --> 01:36:09,679
Speaker 2: and it's so jokes can be made at their expense.

1716
01:36:09,840 --> 01:36:12,759
Speaker 2: So and I felt the same way for Suzanne, like, yes,

1717
01:36:12,840 --> 01:36:17,720
Speaker 2: she's a queer character who's talking openly about her queerness

1718
01:36:18,000 --> 01:36:21,280
Speaker 2: to someone who seems receptive to it. But we learned

1719
01:36:21,280 --> 01:36:24,280
Speaker 2: that that scene is only in the movie so that

1720
01:36:24,640 --> 01:36:28,320
Speaker 2: this guy can use that as ammunition to win a

1721
01:36:28,360 --> 01:36:32,840
Speaker 2: hockey game and then boast about it. He's like, yeah, team,

1722
01:36:33,200 --> 01:36:37,679
Speaker 2: the reason we won is because I outed this woman

1723
01:36:38,000 --> 01:36:39,680
Speaker 2: who has an abusive husband, and.

1724
01:36:39,760 --> 01:36:43,439
Speaker 9: Anyone who had listened, yeah, that's I think that's like

1725
01:36:43,479 --> 01:36:46,519
Speaker 9: that's a not that it justifies any kind of behavior,

1726
01:36:46,520 --> 01:36:48,479
Speaker 9: but the fact that he does it a second time,

1727
01:36:49,240 --> 01:36:52,360
Speaker 9: like he shouts it at her husband, which is putting

1728
01:36:52,439 --> 01:36:54,680
Speaker 9: her in danger in one way, but then he does

1729
01:36:54,720 --> 01:36:55,639
Speaker 9: it a second time.

1730
01:36:55,560 --> 01:36:56,479
Speaker 1: Right after, and it's.

1731
01:36:56,360 --> 01:36:58,160
Speaker 2: Like he's the worst.

1732
01:36:59,040 --> 01:36:59,559
Speaker 1: Just so you doing.

1733
01:37:01,720 --> 01:37:06,240
Speaker 2: I don't have much else to say except that their

1734
01:37:06,439 --> 01:37:10,480
Speaker 2: their bus driver is wearing a helmet with a swastika

1735
01:37:10,520 --> 01:37:11,000
Speaker 2: on it.

1736
01:37:11,320 --> 01:37:12,400
Speaker 1: I noticed that as well.

1737
01:37:12,520 --> 01:37:15,920
Speaker 4: I never never caught that the first several times I

1738
01:37:16,000 --> 01:37:19,200
Speaker 4: watched the movie. You know, Walt Walt, who just goes

1739
01:37:19,240 --> 01:37:21,840
Speaker 4: from Walt the bus driver and you know, he's another one.

1740
01:37:21,960 --> 01:37:25,200
Speaker 4: He gets all swept and swept up in the you know,

1741
01:37:25,479 --> 01:37:29,120
Speaker 4: chiefs mania and starts you know, hammer and the bus,

1742
01:37:29,400 --> 01:37:32,160
Speaker 4: you know, to make it look meaner, and then the swastika,

1743
01:37:32,760 --> 01:37:33,920
Speaker 4: you know, but that you're.

1744
01:37:33,840 --> 01:37:37,360
Speaker 1: Just like, is that? Yeah? That that was a kind

1745
01:37:37,360 --> 01:37:39,320
Speaker 1: of jump scare in the movie, and it's like if

1746
01:37:39,360 --> 01:37:43,559
Speaker 1: it was. I think maybe the most generous reading of

1747
01:37:43,600 --> 01:37:46,400
Speaker 1: that was like, oh, this team is getting more and

1748
01:37:46,560 --> 01:37:50,240
Speaker 1: more evil, but we were like, there's so many there's

1749
01:37:50,360 --> 01:37:52,720
Speaker 1: no world where that was necessary. No.

1750
01:37:53,479 --> 01:37:59,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's also an indigenous player during the final game.

1751
01:37:59,600 --> 01:38:01,439
Speaker 1: I want to talk about that. Yes, I mean I

1752
01:38:01,479 --> 01:38:04,479
Speaker 1: know obviously you did get spread it up. Yes, which

1753
01:38:04,520 --> 01:38:08,759
Speaker 1: in general, because the team in this movie are called

1754
01:38:08,800 --> 01:38:12,519
Speaker 1: the Chiefs and there's a lot of and I think

1755
01:38:12,560 --> 01:38:18,680
Speaker 1: that that's an ongoing conversation in sports, is it is

1756
01:38:19,040 --> 01:38:24,840
Speaker 1: teams that are named and characterize Indigenous people as mascots,

1757
01:38:25,000 --> 01:38:29,200
Speaker 1: and that's an ongoing conversation also in hockey specifically because

1758
01:38:29,240 --> 01:38:32,559
Speaker 1: the Chicago Blackhawks. I mean that I know you know this,

1759
01:38:33,080 --> 01:38:38,040
Speaker 1: you know this whole conversation of representing Indigenous people as

1760
01:38:38,600 --> 01:38:42,479
Speaker 1: mascots and the issues and conversations that have taken place.

1761
01:38:42,680 --> 01:38:46,240
Speaker 1: And also that team is still called the Chicago Blackhawks.

1762
01:38:46,280 --> 01:38:50,200
Speaker 1: They did not make any changes after that conversation was had.

1763
01:38:50,280 --> 01:38:53,040
Speaker 1: I was trying to happen in the mid twenty tens.

1764
01:38:53,600 --> 01:38:57,679
Speaker 1: But so this team is named the Chiefs, and there

1765
01:38:57,840 --> 01:39:01,960
Speaker 1: is a character in the.

1766
01:39:03,400 --> 01:39:07,880
Speaker 2: On the Syracuse team, Yes, what is his Clarence swamp

1767
01:39:07,920 --> 01:39:14,840
Speaker 2: Town aka Screaming Buffalo, who is played by a real

1768
01:39:14,880 --> 01:39:20,440
Speaker 2: hockey player named Joe Nolan, who is First Nations.

1769
01:39:21,360 --> 01:39:24,280
Speaker 1: I was worried that I was really worried that it

1770
01:39:24,320 --> 01:39:25,360
Speaker 1: was a guy in brown.

1771
01:39:25,360 --> 01:39:29,320
Speaker 2: A white guy. Yeah, but this is a real Indigenous person,

1772
01:39:29,840 --> 01:39:34,400
Speaker 2: a real hockey player However, the way that the costuming

1773
01:39:34,720 --> 01:39:38,200
Speaker 2: and the just characterization of that character is still relying

1774
01:39:38,439 --> 01:39:47,800
Speaker 2: heavily on stereotypes of Indigenous and First Nations people. So whoops.

1775
01:39:48,080 --> 01:39:51,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a tough one, you know, I mean all

1776
01:39:51,360 --> 01:39:54,320
Speaker 4: the way down to like I said earlier, there was

1777
01:39:54,360 --> 01:39:56,320
Speaker 4: so much of the hockey parts of it are like,

1778
01:39:57,800 --> 01:40:01,160
Speaker 4: you know, an exaggeration, you know, like almost like a caricature,

1779
01:40:02,160 --> 01:40:05,040
Speaker 4: you know, of that scene. That's one of the things

1780
01:40:05,080 --> 01:40:07,320
Speaker 4: in the in the mood, it's like that never would

1781
01:40:07,400 --> 01:40:10,479
Speaker 4: be allowed, you know, he just he that's that's a

1782
01:40:11,080 --> 01:40:13,000
Speaker 4: you know. And again it's you know, we've talked to

1783
01:40:13,080 --> 01:40:15,200
Speaker 4: you know, if you could snip this guy out and

1784
01:40:15,240 --> 01:40:18,360
Speaker 4: this guy out, it really changes thing. That was like,

1785
01:40:18,520 --> 01:40:21,160
Speaker 4: all right, you've you've made your point. You know that

1786
01:40:21,520 --> 01:40:26,120
Speaker 4: the Syracuse team is loaded up on rugged guys, right,

1787
01:40:26,479 --> 01:40:29,599
Speaker 4: you know, to pay you back? You know, like how

1788
01:40:29,600 --> 01:40:30,639
Speaker 4: many did you have to have?

1789
01:40:30,760 --> 01:40:32,479
Speaker 1: Right? Well? And it's also like I don't think that

1790
01:40:32,520 --> 01:40:36,080
Speaker 1: the solution to that is cutting out that character. It's

1791
01:40:36,120 --> 01:40:40,360
Speaker 1: just presenting this real life First Nations hockey player in

1792
01:40:40,400 --> 01:40:44,559
Speaker 1: a way that wasn't you know, inherently connected to the

1793
01:40:44,640 --> 01:40:47,880
Speaker 1: fact that he was a First Nations player, Like I

1794
01:40:48,200 --> 01:40:50,720
Speaker 1: don't know, I have no objection to like having a

1795
01:40:50,960 --> 01:40:55,000
Speaker 1: cause because, like you've mentioned that, there's so many real

1796
01:40:55,040 --> 01:40:58,000
Speaker 1: life hockey players that appear in this movie, and Joe

1797
01:40:58,080 --> 01:41:00,960
Speaker 1: Nolan like played on a number of teams, including the

1798
01:41:01,040 --> 01:41:05,160
Speaker 1: Johnstown Jets. He's from a hockey family. He is h

1799
01:41:05,640 --> 01:41:10,280
Speaker 1: This is according to Hockey Legends dot com scholarly journal.

1800
01:41:10,920 --> 01:41:15,720
Speaker 1: Yes exactly. He is Ojibwa. He is the uncle of

1801
01:41:15,760 --> 01:41:19,559
Speaker 1: Buffalo Sabers coach Ted Nolan and great uncle of Jordan

1802
01:41:19,640 --> 01:41:22,320
Speaker 1: Nolan of the La Kings. So he's like from a

1803
01:41:22,560 --> 01:41:25,880
Speaker 1: like legacy hockey family. There's no issue with him being

1804
01:41:25,880 --> 01:41:29,240
Speaker 1: in this movie. It's just like presenting him as not

1805
01:41:29,479 --> 01:41:33,480
Speaker 1: inherently connected to his Like it's just like it's obviously

1806
01:41:33,520 --> 01:41:36,519
Speaker 1: written by a white writer of the time, disrespectful and

1807
01:41:36,640 --> 01:41:38,880
Speaker 1: just being like, well, this is his heritage, so this

1808
01:41:38,920 --> 01:41:40,640
Speaker 1: is going to be the whole character, and we're going

1809
01:41:40,720 --> 01:41:42,600
Speaker 1: to write it in the way like we're going to

1810
01:41:42,680 --> 01:41:44,960
Speaker 1: write him for a white audience.

1811
01:41:45,200 --> 01:41:47,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, the most trophy way possible.

1812
01:41:48,160 --> 01:41:49,439
Speaker 1: And it would have been cool, Like it would been

1813
01:41:49,479 --> 01:41:51,640
Speaker 1: cool if Joe Nolan was cast in a role that

1814
01:41:51,840 --> 01:41:55,000
Speaker 1: was not that like was just like he could have

1815
01:41:55,040 --> 01:41:57,360
Speaker 1: played a he could be a guy on that team,

1816
01:41:57,680 --> 01:42:00,080
Speaker 1: but just it's obviously racist the way.

1817
01:42:00,600 --> 01:42:04,080
Speaker 2: Right with more than fifteen seconds of screen time, you know.

1818
01:42:05,600 --> 01:42:08,439
Speaker 1: I also this is like separate, but I learned about

1819
01:42:08,439 --> 01:42:10,840
Speaker 1: it on my trip at the Hockey Hall of Fame,

1820
01:42:11,000 --> 01:42:14,120
Speaker 1: so I wanted to mention it and we can link

1821
01:42:14,160 --> 01:42:17,439
Speaker 1: it in the description of this episode. But just the

1822
01:42:17,520 --> 01:42:21,400
Speaker 1: history of Native American and First Nations players within hockey,

1823
01:42:21,479 --> 01:42:25,599
Speaker 1: there's a lot to be discussed and learned about where

1824
01:42:25,640 --> 01:42:28,960
Speaker 1: there are still a number of I mean like, there

1825
01:42:28,960 --> 01:42:33,280
Speaker 1: are a number of Native players in professional hockey today,

1826
01:42:33,920 --> 01:42:38,400
Speaker 1: but there's also a history of hockey in reservation schools,

1827
01:42:38,560 --> 01:42:41,519
Speaker 1: and hockey has a role in Canadian reservation schools. There's

1828
01:42:41,520 --> 01:42:43,280
Speaker 1: been a lot written about it in the last couple

1829
01:42:43,280 --> 01:42:47,240
Speaker 1: of years that I think is very relevant to what

1830
01:42:47,240 --> 01:42:50,439
Speaker 1: we're talking about, very interesting, and especially when this Jo

1831
01:42:50,520 --> 01:42:52,719
Speaker 1: Nolan character came up, it was like, oh, there's actually

1832
01:42:52,800 --> 01:42:56,920
Speaker 1: a lot of troubling and like relevant Indigenous history within

1833
01:42:57,160 --> 01:43:02,000
Speaker 1: hockey that if you're interested, we can link a piece

1834
01:43:02,040 --> 01:43:04,720
Speaker 1: that I read below and I learned about it. I

1835
01:43:04,760 --> 01:43:06,840
Speaker 1: don't know why I keep plugging the Hontey muse. I

1836
01:43:06,840 --> 01:43:10,559
Speaker 1: thought it was really interesting and we'll link it.

1837
01:43:10,800 --> 01:43:11,120
Speaker 6: Yes.

1838
01:43:11,400 --> 01:43:14,920
Speaker 4: Indeed, ironically, I have never been to the Hockey Hall

1839
01:43:14,960 --> 01:43:15,280
Speaker 4: of Fame.

1840
01:43:15,520 --> 01:43:18,120
Speaker 1: I know, it's just like texting you pictures the whole time.

1841
01:43:18,439 --> 01:43:19,439
Speaker 2: Where is it Toronto?

1842
01:43:19,680 --> 01:43:22,320
Speaker 1: Yes, in Toronto, the Hockey Hall of Fame. I saw

1843
01:43:22,360 --> 01:43:24,640
Speaker 1: the Stanley Cup from a healthy distance, and then I

1844
01:43:24,640 --> 01:43:27,320
Speaker 1: did not pay ten dollars to have a picture taken

1845
01:43:27,360 --> 01:43:27,920
Speaker 1: next to it.

1846
01:43:28,400 --> 01:43:28,679
Speaker 2: Nice.

1847
01:43:28,840 --> 01:43:30,599
Speaker 1: Nice, I took a picture of it from far away.

1848
01:43:31,320 --> 01:43:35,640
Speaker 2: Does anyone have anything else they'd like to discuss?

1849
01:43:36,160 --> 01:43:40,880
Speaker 4: Well, just because I did all the research on the

1850
01:43:40,960 --> 01:43:42,840
Speaker 4: one of the interesting things, I mean, the people who

1851
01:43:42,880 --> 01:43:46,160
Speaker 4: know this movie would be very frustrated. It was like,

1852
01:43:46,200 --> 01:43:48,959
Speaker 4: how could you not talk about? You know? The interesting

1853
01:43:49,360 --> 01:43:53,400
Speaker 4: things to me are that there really were Like so

1854
01:43:53,439 --> 01:43:58,439
Speaker 4: the three Hansome brothers. There really were three brothers on

1855
01:43:58,479 --> 01:44:03,240
Speaker 4: that Johnstown team. Their last name was Carlson. They were

1856
01:44:03,280 --> 01:44:06,240
Speaker 4: all supposed to be in the movie. One of them

1857
01:44:06,280 --> 01:44:09,840
Speaker 4: got called up to a better team, so they had

1858
01:44:09,880 --> 01:44:13,880
Speaker 4: to replace him with somebody who looked similar. His last

1859
01:44:13,920 --> 01:44:17,680
Speaker 4: name was Hanson, and that's that's how they named the

1860
01:44:17,800 --> 01:44:20,599
Speaker 4: three the Hansons. But god, it just there's a there's

1861
01:44:20,640 --> 01:44:24,280
Speaker 4: a lot of little interesting things there the one character

1862
01:44:24,439 --> 01:44:29,360
Speaker 4: that he's like, I want to collect that bounty. Who

1863
01:44:29,439 --> 01:44:32,360
Speaker 4: is another person that Regg Dunlop you know, manipulates because

1864
01:44:32,360 --> 01:44:34,920
Speaker 4: he's you know, kind of like a peacenik and a

1865
01:44:35,000 --> 01:44:37,240
Speaker 4: meditator and everything like that, And all of a sudden

1866
01:44:37,320 --> 01:44:42,680
Speaker 4: he becomes Dave Killer Carlson. Well, Dave Killer Carlson was

1867
01:44:42,720 --> 01:44:46,800
Speaker 4: a real player, and he replaced the Hanson that had

1868
01:44:46,800 --> 01:44:50,080
Speaker 4: to leave. It's just there's a lot of funny things

1869
01:44:50,120 --> 01:44:52,519
Speaker 4: in there. So he thought he was going to get

1870
01:44:52,520 --> 01:44:55,680
Speaker 4: to play himself, but instead he had to be a

1871
01:44:56,280 --> 01:44:59,680
Speaker 4: you know, become like a surrogate brother and be in

1872
01:44:59,680 --> 01:45:03,880
Speaker 4: a movie where someone played him. My last favorite thing is,

1873
01:45:05,000 --> 01:45:09,880
Speaker 4: you know, I'm no actor, but throughout the movie there

1874
01:45:09,880 --> 01:45:13,760
Speaker 4: are references made to this player that everybody's fearful of,

1875
01:45:13,840 --> 01:45:18,720
Speaker 4: you know, Ogie Oglethorpe. Right, Yes, Ogie finally shows up

1876
01:45:18,760 --> 01:45:22,640
Speaker 4: in that last game, never says a word, scowling at

1877
01:45:22,640 --> 01:45:26,280
Speaker 4: everybody in that scene, scowling and then fighting. That is

1878
01:45:26,360 --> 01:45:30,080
Speaker 4: Ned Dowd, whose sister wrote the movie.

1879
01:45:30,240 --> 01:45:32,040
Speaker 2: Oh okay, Nancy Dowd's brother.

1880
01:45:32,360 --> 01:45:36,160
Speaker 4: Yes, so Ogie is you know, but I mean, I

1881
01:45:36,280 --> 01:45:39,759
Speaker 4: just that scene just cracks me up. Just the skating

1882
01:45:39,840 --> 01:45:42,000
Speaker 4: out with the you know, chewing the gum and looking

1883
01:45:42,040 --> 01:45:45,560
Speaker 4: either ways. You know, but for for that on a

1884
01:45:45,640 --> 01:45:48,720
Speaker 4: screen time, just you you know, to sell it, I'm like,

1885
01:45:48,840 --> 01:45:50,559
Speaker 4: all right, nice job guy, you know.

1886
01:45:50,800 --> 01:45:53,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I like I think that that's like

1887
01:45:53,560 --> 01:45:56,839
Speaker 1: just the I don't know element of just like how

1888
01:45:57,320 --> 01:46:00,400
Speaker 1: she did this sort of immersive approach to research and

1889
01:46:00,479 --> 01:46:02,840
Speaker 1: then seemed to include a lot of people that she'd

1890
01:46:02,840 --> 01:46:05,439
Speaker 1: come across or learned about in that research in the movie.

1891
01:46:05,479 --> 01:46:08,560
Speaker 1: Like that's I just I don't know, I think that's cool.

1892
01:46:08,400 --> 01:46:10,479
Speaker 4: You know, and you know, there are there are elements

1893
01:46:10,479 --> 01:46:12,320
Speaker 4: of truth in the two and then I'll stop talking about.

1894
01:46:12,520 --> 01:46:17,920
Speaker 4: You know, the Charlestown Chiefs slash Johnstown Jets that nineteen

1895
01:46:18,000 --> 01:46:21,000
Speaker 4: seventy seven season that concluded so they could make the movie.

1896
01:46:21,800 --> 01:46:24,200
Speaker 4: The Jets didn't go out of business, but their league folded.

1897
01:46:24,560 --> 01:46:25,360
Speaker 1: Oh oh okay, you.

1898
01:46:25,360 --> 01:46:28,080
Speaker 4: Know, so this this was a thing that was happening,

1899
01:46:28,080 --> 01:46:30,080
Speaker 4: and that league had only been around for four years.

1900
01:46:30,360 --> 01:46:32,599
Speaker 4: The other thing that's interesting is like, you know how

1901
01:46:32,640 --> 01:46:35,679
Speaker 4: outrageous it was that, like, why would anybody a hockey

1902
01:46:35,680 --> 01:46:39,120
Speaker 4: team in Florida? Well, you know, there are professional hockey

1903
01:46:39,160 --> 01:46:41,240
Speaker 4: teams in Florida now and it's you know, it's gone

1904
01:46:41,240 --> 01:46:43,080
Speaker 4: pretty well in a couple of the places.

1905
01:46:43,080 --> 01:46:46,360
Speaker 1: So yeah, well, I guess that's the last thing I

1906
01:46:46,400 --> 01:46:50,120
Speaker 1: wanted to say was that I appreciated that the movie

1907
01:46:50,160 --> 01:46:52,680
Speaker 1: went out of its way to connect the struggle of

1908
01:46:52,680 --> 01:46:55,760
Speaker 1: this hockey team to what was going on in their community,

1909
01:46:56,240 --> 01:46:59,640
Speaker 1: and how like it was just like acknowledging I don't know,

1910
01:46:59,640 --> 01:47:02,400
Speaker 1: I felt like because it was done off of this

1911
01:47:02,520 --> 01:47:06,439
Speaker 1: very specific reporting in this region or this research I

1912
01:47:06,439 --> 01:47:10,920
Speaker 1: guess in this region, it like does reflect the socioeconomic

1913
01:47:10,960 --> 01:47:15,280
Speaker 1: problems in the Pittsburgh area in the late seventies and

1914
01:47:15,320 --> 01:47:17,559
Speaker 1: connects it to this hockey team in a way that feels,

1915
01:47:18,240 --> 01:47:20,200
Speaker 1: I don't know, like class conscious, in a way that

1916
01:47:20,280 --> 01:47:23,679
Speaker 1: a lot of sports MOVI fees either aren't or feel

1917
01:47:23,760 --> 01:47:27,920
Speaker 1: like overly sort of melodramatic about. It. Just felt like

1918
01:47:27,960 --> 01:47:31,200
Speaker 1: it fit very cleanly into this world, and like not

1919
01:47:31,320 --> 01:47:34,080
Speaker 1: only like it wasn't like the town and the team

1920
01:47:34,479 --> 01:47:36,400
Speaker 1: because it was a minor league team. The team is

1921
01:47:36,400 --> 01:47:38,080
Speaker 1: a part of the town and so they're all sort

1922
01:47:38,120 --> 01:47:41,639
Speaker 1: of sharing the same kind of issues, right.

1923
01:47:41,920 --> 01:47:46,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, that and we you know, we're talking about this earlier.

1924
01:47:46,680 --> 01:47:50,760
Speaker 2: But how Reggie like does a bunch of you know,

1925
01:47:50,800 --> 01:47:55,479
Speaker 2: it's like desperate times call for desperate measures, and under capitalism,

1926
01:47:56,000 --> 01:48:00,120
Speaker 2: when you know your livelihood is being threatened, a lot

1927
01:48:00,160 --> 01:48:03,000
Speaker 2: of people do have to act out of desperation and

1928
01:48:03,400 --> 01:48:08,559
Speaker 2: do things that they would maybe not otherwise do to survive.

1929
01:48:09,080 --> 01:48:13,160
Speaker 2: But and so and that manifests in Reggie as like

1930
01:48:13,360 --> 01:48:17,720
Speaker 2: manipulating people in a way that's like extremely harmful. So

1931
01:48:17,720 --> 01:48:21,200
Speaker 2: I guess my point is, like you can do things

1932
01:48:21,240 --> 01:48:27,160
Speaker 2: out of desperation because capitalism is killing us all without

1933
01:48:27,240 --> 01:48:31,320
Speaker 2: also being extremely homophobic and you know all the other

1934
01:48:31,360 --> 01:48:34,000
Speaker 2: things that he does, Like it would be one thing

1935
01:48:34,040 --> 01:48:37,000
Speaker 2: if all he did was just like lie to his

1936
01:48:37,160 --> 01:48:41,800
Speaker 2: team and like plant that story in the sports writer

1937
01:48:41,880 --> 01:48:45,559
Speaker 2: to be like I heard we were getting bought by Florida.

1938
01:48:45,600 --> 01:48:48,760
Speaker 2: And if he tells his team this and his objective

1939
01:48:48,840 --> 01:48:51,080
Speaker 2: is just to get morale up so that they can

1940
01:48:51,160 --> 01:48:54,160
Speaker 2: win and like actually maybe have a shot, Like I

1941
01:48:54,160 --> 01:48:56,880
Speaker 2: wouldn't have any problem with that really because it's like

1942
01:48:56,920 --> 01:49:00,200
Speaker 2: a not a not a diabolical.

1943
01:48:59,560 --> 01:49:01,320
Speaker 1: Lie, it's a victimless crime.

1944
01:49:01,760 --> 01:49:05,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, But the fact that he's doing that, plus all

1945
01:49:06,000 --> 01:49:12,479
Speaker 2: manner of like blackmailing, homophobia, outing people, all this stuff

1946
01:49:12,560 --> 01:49:15,839
Speaker 2: like that's where I can't.

1947
01:49:16,640 --> 01:49:19,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you're not just gonna call him over that

1948
01:49:19,520 --> 01:49:27,200
Speaker 4: old rascal red chunk today.

1949
01:49:27,320 --> 01:49:33,000
Speaker 1: So okay, let's get through it. I this movie does

1950
01:49:34,400 --> 01:49:35,320
Speaker 1: it does well.

1951
01:49:35,680 --> 01:49:38,400
Speaker 4: I was so surprised to hear yeah.

1952
01:49:38,600 --> 01:49:40,640
Speaker 1: He kept checking with me to make sure that, and

1953
01:49:40,680 --> 01:49:43,680
Speaker 1: he was like, wait, what so it doesn't Well, it's

1954
01:49:43,720 --> 01:49:46,800
Speaker 1: a flawed metric. It doesn't. Just because it passes doesn't

1955
01:49:46,800 --> 01:49:47,960
Speaker 1: mean it's a feminist movie.

1956
01:49:49,240 --> 01:49:54,960
Speaker 2: Because Lily and Francine talk about Lily's hair and cheekbones.

1957
01:49:54,560 --> 01:49:58,920
Speaker 3: And share and they mentioned share, and then there's the

1958
01:49:58,960 --> 01:50:02,280
Speaker 3: other scene where it's Lily and then the two other

1959
01:50:02,320 --> 01:50:05,280
Speaker 3: women who I don't think have names, So by that

1960
01:50:05,880 --> 01:50:07,240
Speaker 3: caveat it would not pass.

1961
01:50:07,320 --> 01:50:11,320
Speaker 2: But they are talking about drinking alcohol and.

1962
01:50:11,200 --> 01:50:13,160
Speaker 1: They're talking about addiction problem. Yeah.

1963
01:50:13,200 --> 01:50:18,000
Speaker 3: Like yeah, so so it's by the scants teeth.

1964
01:50:18,120 --> 01:50:21,080
Speaker 1: But it does technically pass. And I feel like I

1965
01:50:21,479 --> 01:50:23,960
Speaker 1: want to I want to hand it to this movie

1966
01:50:24,000 --> 01:50:27,320
Speaker 1: as passing because of it feels like in many ways

1967
01:50:27,320 --> 01:50:30,560
Speaker 1: the odds are stacked against any sports movie about a

1968
01:50:30,640 --> 01:50:34,479
Speaker 1: men's demon passing. I was really surprised that it technically passes.

1969
01:50:35,120 --> 01:50:36,920
Speaker 4: I mean, if I can. I mean, when I thought

1970
01:50:36,920 --> 01:50:39,960
Speaker 4: about it in the you know, you know the theme

1971
01:50:40,040 --> 01:50:42,760
Speaker 4: of your cast. I really just thought that this was

1972
01:50:42,800 --> 01:50:46,479
Speaker 4: a movie that you know, crass and guys and thee

1973
01:50:46,800 --> 01:50:50,600
Speaker 4: but that the women kind of like stuck up for

1974
01:50:50,680 --> 01:50:54,800
Speaker 4: each other helped each other, didn't always. I mean, France

1975
01:50:54,840 --> 01:50:57,599
Speaker 4: scene's great. I mean she tells them like right off

1976
01:50:57,600 --> 01:50:59,280
Speaker 4: the bad one of their first scenes, like you know,

1977
01:50:59,400 --> 01:51:03,200
Speaker 4: you're terrible coaches teams state you know. I mean, yeah,

1978
01:51:03,320 --> 01:51:09,400
Speaker 4: she does it right, you know, so and and you know,

1979
01:51:09,520 --> 01:51:12,080
Speaker 4: and I love, like I said, I love most of

1980
01:51:12,080 --> 01:51:14,720
Speaker 4: the last scene. I still can't figure out, you know,

1981
01:51:14,800 --> 01:51:20,040
Speaker 4: how Lily and Ned end up together. And I agree

1982
01:51:20,040 --> 01:51:22,160
Speaker 4: with you caitle. And I thought that that the scene

1983
01:51:22,160 --> 01:51:24,360
Speaker 4: with Franccene was going to empower her to really go

1984
01:51:24,600 --> 01:51:28,120
Speaker 4: but you know, the fran scene, you know, goes her

1985
01:51:28,160 --> 01:51:30,840
Speaker 4: own way. I mean it's just, you know, it's sort

1986
01:51:30,840 --> 01:51:34,840
Speaker 4: of her own path because she you know, cuts through,

1987
01:51:35,200 --> 01:51:37,439
Speaker 4: cuts through the parade and goes down the you know,

1988
01:51:37,560 --> 01:51:40,479
Speaker 4: down the road by herself. I just thought it was,

1989
01:51:41,040 --> 01:51:43,519
Speaker 4: you know, that that was an element to the movie

1990
01:51:43,600 --> 01:51:47,360
Speaker 4: that shouldn't really you know, be overlooked for sure.

1991
01:51:47,439 --> 01:51:50,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean yeah, and I do think for especially

1992
01:51:50,160 --> 01:51:53,360
Speaker 1: for its time and also for this genre even now

1993
01:51:53,520 --> 01:51:57,639
Speaker 1: it is like unusual for women to be included. Also,

1994
01:51:57,680 --> 01:52:01,320
Speaker 1: as much as I hate ned, he was in Twin Peaks,

1995
01:52:01,640 --> 01:52:02,639
Speaker 1: so that's kind of fun.

1996
01:52:03,120 --> 01:52:05,920
Speaker 4: He played hockey at the University of New Hampshire as.

1997
01:52:05,800 --> 01:52:08,760
Speaker 1: Well, and we can't take that from them either, of course.

1998
01:52:09,160 --> 01:52:11,360
Speaker 4: And it's big time hockey, oh is it?

1999
01:52:11,720 --> 01:52:14,360
Speaker 1: Yes? See? Okay, now I'm nice. Sound like an asshole.

2000
01:52:15,200 --> 01:52:19,519
Speaker 1: I didn't know that. This movie surprised me in ways

2001
01:52:19,520 --> 01:52:20,439
Speaker 1: I wasn't expecting it to.

2002
01:52:21,240 --> 01:52:22,759
Speaker 4: But but we should.

2003
01:52:22,800 --> 01:52:24,840
Speaker 1: We should talk about the most important metric on the

2004
01:52:24,840 --> 01:52:27,280
Speaker 1: face of the planet, which is our nipple scale.

2005
01:52:27,360 --> 01:52:30,639
Speaker 2: Yes, a scale of zero to five nipples in which

2006
01:52:30,680 --> 01:52:33,839
Speaker 2: we rate the movie. That's true, you heard.

2007
01:52:34,080 --> 01:52:35,880
Speaker 1: Yes, we need to break it down zero to.

2008
01:52:35,880 --> 01:52:40,920
Speaker 2: Five nipples, rating the movie based on examining it through

2009
01:52:41,080 --> 01:52:46,400
Speaker 2: an intersectional feminist lens. Yeah, I'll give this movie one

2010
01:52:47,240 --> 01:52:56,120
Speaker 2: nipple for it's a handful of female characters who, obviously

2011
01:52:56,120 --> 01:52:58,080
Speaker 2: I wish the movie had done a lot more with

2012
01:52:58,760 --> 01:53:03,400
Speaker 2: given more just real estate and the story to Susanne

2013
01:53:03,400 --> 01:53:07,639
Speaker 2: only being there so that her situation could be used

2014
01:53:07,720 --> 01:53:12,080
Speaker 2: as ammunition against her husband is obviously gross. But if

2015
01:53:12,080 --> 01:53:15,439
Speaker 2: she had been a more meaningful character. So I guess

2016
01:53:15,439 --> 01:53:18,280
Speaker 2: I'm giving it one nipple for the potential that the

2017
01:53:18,320 --> 01:53:23,479
Speaker 2: movie mostly squandered. I do appreciate that Francine stands her

2018
01:53:23,520 --> 01:53:28,120
Speaker 2: ground in not being willing to get back together with

2019
01:53:28,240 --> 01:53:32,000
Speaker 2: her shitty husband. I agree that like most movies would

2020
01:53:32,000 --> 01:53:35,559
Speaker 2: have like framed her as like the he's trying, he's trying,

2021
01:53:35,640 --> 01:53:38,479
Speaker 2: and at the end he finally gets her back and

2022
01:53:38,520 --> 01:53:42,960
Speaker 2: she's the other trophy he wins. But this movie doesn't

2023
01:53:43,000 --> 01:53:48,360
Speaker 2: do that, and that does count for something. Wow, the

2024
01:53:48,400 --> 01:53:54,000
Speaker 2: bar is so low, but everything else the movie does

2025
01:53:54,040 --> 01:53:59,000
Speaker 2: as far as it's just like rampant homophobia, ablest slurs

2026
01:53:59,080 --> 01:54:05,560
Speaker 2: are getting around casually, the treatment of the one indigenous

2027
01:54:05,600 --> 01:54:09,200
Speaker 2: character that we see on screen, all that kind of stuff.

2028
01:54:09,640 --> 01:54:13,920
Speaker 2: If anyone is looking for a movie that features mostly

2029
01:54:14,080 --> 01:54:20,120
Speaker 2: men that is about men who are affected by a

2030
01:54:20,160 --> 01:54:25,320
Speaker 2: steel mill closing, might I recommend The Full Monty because

2031
01:54:25,320 --> 01:54:30,880
Speaker 2: it handles themes of toxic masculinity and things like that

2032
01:54:30,960 --> 01:54:34,920
Speaker 2: in a much more thoughtful way. I would say, not

2033
01:54:34,960 --> 01:54:39,320
Speaker 2: about hockey, though it is about men stripping, although wow,

2034
01:54:39,400 --> 01:54:43,720
Speaker 2: similar ending because we go slapshot does end in a

2035
01:54:43,800 --> 01:54:49,400
Speaker 2: strip tease. So anyway, I I'm glad. I guess that

2036
01:54:49,600 --> 01:54:52,120
Speaker 2: this movie, at least for like Jamie yours and my

2037
01:54:52,400 --> 01:54:56,320
Speaker 2: generation and younger generations, it is not something that most

2038
01:54:56,320 --> 01:54:59,080
Speaker 2: people are super aware of. It has not like it

2039
01:54:59,120 --> 01:55:02,160
Speaker 2: hasn't ended up. Is like this like piece of classic

2040
01:55:02,240 --> 01:55:06,520
Speaker 2: Hollywood cinema that you must revisit. It's it doesn't have

2041
01:55:06,640 --> 01:55:09,560
Speaker 2: much of a lasting legacy in that way.

2042
01:55:09,720 --> 01:55:12,120
Speaker 1: Well, I mean except for hockey fans, where it's not

2043
01:55:12,160 --> 01:55:14,640
Speaker 1: a massive leg like in a niche way. It has

2044
01:55:14,680 --> 01:55:17,120
Speaker 1: a huge legacy in the general way, not as.

2045
01:55:17,040 --> 01:55:22,560
Speaker 2: Much true true. Yeah, So one nipple and I will

2046
01:55:22,640 --> 01:55:25,080
Speaker 2: give it to my favorite character, fran Scene.

2047
01:55:25,880 --> 01:55:28,400
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give this movie to Nipples because it's my

2048
01:55:28,440 --> 01:55:32,400
Speaker 1: birthday and I know, but I do think that like

2049
01:55:33,120 --> 01:55:35,520
Speaker 1: I agree with I mean, we've talked about it at

2050
01:55:35,600 --> 01:55:40,120
Speaker 1: length now where this movie is not generous in so

2051
01:55:40,160 --> 01:55:44,040
Speaker 1: many ways. It is wildly homophobic the one native character

2052
01:55:44,160 --> 01:55:47,560
Speaker 1: it represents, which is also I think that Joe Nolan

2053
01:55:47,720 --> 01:55:50,440
Speaker 1: is the only non white character who really appears in

2054
01:55:50,440 --> 01:55:54,000
Speaker 1: this movie meaningfully in any way. Yeah, which again is

2055
01:55:54,400 --> 01:55:57,040
Speaker 1: not necessary, especially because of the region you're in. It, Like,

2056
01:55:57,080 --> 01:55:59,880
Speaker 1: there's plenty of diversity to be found in this region.

2057
01:56:00,080 --> 01:56:02,800
Speaker 1: I know that hockey is predominantly a white sport, but

2058
01:56:02,840 --> 01:56:04,680
Speaker 1: it's a movie. You can do whatever the fuck you want.

2059
01:56:05,360 --> 01:56:09,360
Speaker 1: But I do think that this movie is I don't know,

2060
01:56:09,400 --> 01:56:13,600
Speaker 1: I mean a sports comedy in the seventies. Having women

2061
01:56:13,680 --> 01:56:16,520
Speaker 1: included it at all feels kind of like a miracle

2062
01:56:16,520 --> 01:56:19,600
Speaker 1: to me. And having a successful sports movie written by

2063
01:56:19,680 --> 01:56:21,800
Speaker 1: a woman feels kind of like a miracle to me

2064
01:56:21,920 --> 01:56:24,640
Speaker 1: for this era. And so I want.

2065
01:56:24,440 --> 01:56:27,200
Speaker 2: To miracle another hockey movie.

2066
01:56:27,680 --> 01:56:29,720
Speaker 1: Hate it, but that's like the exact kind of corny

2067
01:56:29,760 --> 01:56:32,080
Speaker 1: ass movie I'm talking about where all the girls are

2068
01:56:32,120 --> 01:56:35,160
Speaker 1: like you've got this baby, and you're like, oh my god. Like,

2069
01:56:35,760 --> 01:56:39,680
Speaker 1: I do think that this movie has incredible fault. It's

2070
01:56:39,680 --> 01:56:41,880
Speaker 1: like at the end because because we've talked about so

2071
01:56:41,960 --> 01:56:45,400
Speaker 1: many broad comedies on this show, and all of the

2072
01:56:45,440 --> 01:56:48,320
Speaker 1: swings are huge, and when they hit, they hit, and

2073
01:56:48,320 --> 01:56:51,680
Speaker 1: when they're bad, they're awful. They're almost worse than you

2074
01:56:51,680 --> 01:56:54,440
Speaker 1: can find in any genre, right, And I think the

2075
01:56:54,520 --> 01:56:57,280
Speaker 1: same is true in horror or like any like broad

2076
01:56:57,440 --> 01:57:00,520
Speaker 1: niche genre that tends to be true. And so this

2077
01:57:00,560 --> 01:57:03,879
Speaker 1: movie is wildly dated. I understand why it is not popular.

2078
01:57:03,960 --> 01:57:07,080
Speaker 1: We watched. I'm not even recommending it really. I just

2079
01:57:07,160 --> 01:57:11,560
Speaker 1: was surprised by the fact that women were presented in

2080
01:57:12,240 --> 01:57:14,600
Speaker 1: uh for the most part, in empathetic way, even though

2081
01:57:14,600 --> 01:57:19,040
Speaker 1: I did not agree with how everyone everyone's arc was resolved.

2082
01:57:19,600 --> 01:57:22,920
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna go too, and I'm gonna give one

2083
01:57:23,040 --> 01:57:25,960
Speaker 1: freent scene because she rocks, and one to Lily because

2084
01:57:26,000 --> 01:57:28,920
Speaker 1: she deserved better. And I hope that she you know,

2085
01:57:29,320 --> 01:57:31,320
Speaker 1: divorced ned six months later or whatever.

2086
01:57:31,520 --> 01:57:32,440
Speaker 2: Fingers crossed?

2087
01:57:32,920 --> 01:57:34,680
Speaker 1: Dad, what would you give this movie?

2088
01:57:35,200 --> 01:57:35,520
Speaker 4: Oh?

2089
01:57:35,560 --> 01:57:39,840
Speaker 1: Based on his portrayal of women intersectionally.

2090
01:57:39,400 --> 01:57:41,840
Speaker 4: Boy, I have to I have to do this. I'm

2091
01:57:41,840 --> 01:57:43,480
Speaker 4: not I'm not trained. I'm not sure.

2092
01:57:44,800 --> 01:57:46,520
Speaker 2: Whatever feels right in your heart.

2093
01:57:46,760 --> 01:57:56,680
Speaker 4: Yes, I guess two just because too, because nipples. Well, no,

2094
01:57:56,840 --> 01:57:59,920
Speaker 4: just because too. And I have to pick character.

2095
01:58:00,480 --> 01:58:03,640
Speaker 2: You can do you can distribute them or you can

2096
01:58:03,720 --> 01:58:05,360
Speaker 2: keep them, whatever you want to do.

2097
01:58:05,600 --> 01:58:08,960
Speaker 4: I mean, I like, I don't know, I just like,

2098
01:58:09,040 --> 01:58:12,000
Speaker 4: for inscene is A is a great character, you know,

2099
01:58:12,120 --> 01:58:14,680
Speaker 4: I mean, I like that part of you know how

2100
01:58:14,680 --> 01:58:16,920
Speaker 4: she's like. You know, I don't care if you you know,

2101
01:58:17,040 --> 01:58:19,080
Speaker 4: I know you, you know, I know you as a person,

2102
01:58:19,120 --> 01:58:21,280
Speaker 4: and you know you know you might be able to

2103
01:58:21,320 --> 01:58:24,240
Speaker 4: fool everybody else, you know, but you can't fool me

2104
01:58:24,280 --> 01:58:26,480
Speaker 4: anymore and goes to run a way and you know again,

2105
01:58:26,520 --> 01:58:30,320
Speaker 4: missus missus Hanrahan. I never remember her first. I just

2106
01:58:30,400 --> 01:58:34,160
Speaker 4: think that's a touching kind of a but that's that's

2107
01:58:34,200 --> 01:58:38,520
Speaker 4: a you know, that's quite a scene with her, and

2108
01:58:38,560 --> 01:58:42,720
Speaker 4: it's it's serious and funny, and I just really thought

2109
01:58:42,760 --> 01:58:45,040
Speaker 4: that that was a you know, probably back in the

2110
01:58:45,120 --> 01:58:47,920
Speaker 4: day it was like, oh, that's a gratuitous thing, you know,

2111
01:58:48,320 --> 01:58:51,520
Speaker 4: like look at this thing, but you know, look looked

2112
01:58:51,560 --> 01:58:54,320
Speaker 4: at now and her story and everything like that. I

2113
01:58:54,360 --> 01:58:57,320
Speaker 4: think that's you know, I don't know what to say.

2114
01:58:57,360 --> 01:58:59,120
Speaker 4: I can't say that I think that's great, but you

2115
01:58:59,160 --> 01:59:02,000
Speaker 4: know it, I mean, it's just one that like sticks

2116
01:59:02,480 --> 01:59:03,360
Speaker 4: with me anyway.

2117
01:59:03,760 --> 01:59:05,240
Speaker 2: I know what you mean. It would be a fine

2118
01:59:05,280 --> 01:59:10,160
Speaker 2: scene if the thing that happens after it didn't happen exactly.

2119
01:59:09,800 --> 01:59:11,760
Speaker 1: Right, right. That's why it's like this movie is just

2120
01:59:11,800 --> 01:59:14,480
Speaker 1: like frustrating in that way where you're like, wow, this

2121
01:59:14,520 --> 01:59:17,560
Speaker 1: is representation or like a character you would not normally

2122
01:59:17,560 --> 01:59:19,720
Speaker 1: see in a broad comedy, but then they're treated so

2123
01:59:19,800 --> 01:59:22,880
Speaker 1: poorly that you're like, well, why why did you go

2124
01:59:23,040 --> 01:59:26,240
Speaker 1: out of your way to do that? If you were

2125
01:59:26,280 --> 01:59:28,520
Speaker 1: just going to treat them as a plot point and

2126
01:59:28,560 --> 01:59:31,360
Speaker 1: never showed them again, which I think is also inherent

2127
01:59:31,400 --> 01:59:34,040
Speaker 1: to this genre in the ways that I don't know.

2128
01:59:34,080 --> 01:59:36,280
Speaker 1: I found it especially frustrating too, because it's like I

2129
01:59:36,280 --> 01:59:40,640
Speaker 1: thought Suzanne was in the one scene she had was

2130
01:59:40,960 --> 01:59:45,640
Speaker 1: presented with empathy and she was cool, and it was like, oh,

2131
01:59:45,720 --> 01:59:47,920
Speaker 1: this is really and then like we were talking about,

2132
01:59:48,080 --> 01:59:51,520
Speaker 1: like she's treated horrifically and we never get to see

2133
01:59:51,560 --> 01:59:53,080
Speaker 1: her again. We don't know what happens to her, and

2134
01:59:53,120 --> 01:59:54,880
Speaker 1: the movie doesn't really seem to have interest in it

2135
01:59:54,920 --> 01:59:58,200
Speaker 1: because she was ultimately just a plot point to get

2136
01:59:58,800 --> 02:00:00,480
Speaker 1: read to the next step.

2137
02:00:00,600 --> 02:00:01,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2138
02:00:01,160 --> 02:00:05,360
Speaker 1: So a complicated, a more complicated movie than I was expecting.

2139
02:00:06,160 --> 02:00:07,880
Speaker 1: And I'm glad we talked about it.

2140
02:00:08,160 --> 02:00:11,640
Speaker 2: Yes, indeed, and thanks for joining us, sad mister Mike.

2141
02:00:11,920 --> 02:00:14,200
Speaker 4: Oh hey, thanks for having me along.

2142
02:00:14,640 --> 02:00:17,640
Speaker 1: Happy to do it. Uh yeah, do you have anything

2143
02:00:17,680 --> 02:00:18,440
Speaker 1: you want to plug?

2144
02:00:18,920 --> 02:00:20,600
Speaker 2: Yeah? Where can people follow you on Twitter?

2145
02:00:20,760 --> 02:00:23,200
Speaker 4: I don't have us. There's no need to follow me

2146
02:00:23,240 --> 02:00:26,800
Speaker 4: on Twitter. My uh, my days are done. My days

2147
02:00:26,800 --> 02:00:30,480
Speaker 4: of mouthing off and I just uh, you know, which,

2148
02:00:30,520 --> 02:00:32,680
Speaker 4: I didn't do that much. I was not I was

2149
02:00:32,680 --> 02:00:35,680
Speaker 4: not the King of the hot takes, and now I

2150
02:00:35,680 --> 02:00:37,960
Speaker 4: am the king of the silent take. I'll just I'll

2151
02:00:38,000 --> 02:00:41,840
Speaker 4: just read along with you all nice. Well, well you

2152
02:00:41,840 --> 02:00:44,200
Speaker 4: know I could I could plug this, you know, this

2153
02:00:44,200 --> 02:00:46,920
Speaker 4: this podcast a certain book about hot dogs. You know,

2154
02:00:47,360 --> 02:00:48,560
Speaker 4: there's always something, but.

2155
02:00:49,200 --> 02:00:53,440
Speaker 1: Simply just google book about hot dogs. Yeah all right,

2156
02:00:53,480 --> 02:00:57,760
Speaker 1: Well well Dad, I really thank you for for coming

2157
02:00:57,800 --> 02:00:58,320
Speaker 1: on the show.

2158
02:00:58,880 --> 02:01:02,879
Speaker 4: And I really can believe you let us. You badgered

2159
02:01:03,000 --> 02:01:04,000
Speaker 4: us into doing this.

2160
02:01:04,840 --> 02:01:07,480
Speaker 1: I'm so glad we did though I don't know. It's

2161
02:01:07,520 --> 02:01:10,320
Speaker 1: my birthday. I'm a dictator and I get to do

2162
02:01:10,400 --> 02:01:11,200
Speaker 1: whatever I want.

2163
02:01:11,320 --> 02:01:12,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, happy birthday, Jamie.

2164
02:01:13,160 --> 02:01:14,680
Speaker 1: Thank you. This was a way to go.

2165
02:01:14,920 --> 02:01:16,200
Speaker 4: Jam Happy birthday.

2166
02:01:16,520 --> 02:01:21,600
Speaker 1: I remember he remembered it, and that's no I this

2167
02:01:21,800 --> 02:01:24,680
Speaker 1: this episode was very special to me, both of you.

2168
02:01:25,000 --> 02:01:27,840
Speaker 1: So thank you. I appreciate it, and I'm really glad

2169
02:01:27,840 --> 02:01:31,080
Speaker 1: we got to do it. Love you, Jamie, love you too.

2170
02:01:31,320 --> 02:01:32,800
Speaker 4: Way to go, Way to go team.

2171
02:01:33,200 --> 02:01:33,600
Speaker 1: We did it.

2172
02:01:33,800 --> 02:01:36,720
Speaker 2: We won, We won the championship game.

2173
02:01:36,520 --> 02:01:39,880
Speaker 1: We won. We randomly did a strip tease and somehow

2174
02:01:39,880 --> 02:01:41,400
Speaker 1: we want.

2175
02:01:40,120 --> 02:01:44,120
Speaker 4: To there the best podcast in the Federal League.

2176
02:01:44,440 --> 02:01:47,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, we are kind of and I say this

2177
02:01:47,360 --> 02:01:49,640
Speaker 1: with love, we are kind of a minor league podcast,

2178
02:01:49,880 --> 02:01:53,800
Speaker 1: and yet our fan base is intense and they fill

2179
02:01:53,880 --> 02:01:57,960
Speaker 1: the stand and we appreciate that we do because to

2180
02:01:57,960 --> 02:02:00,600
Speaker 1: be a big podcast you have to talk about murder

2181
02:02:00,640 --> 02:02:02,680
Speaker 1: in a dishonest way, and we don't do that. We

2182
02:02:02,720 --> 02:02:04,480
Speaker 1: don't want to we do, or you have to be

2183
02:02:04,560 --> 02:02:07,280
Speaker 1: like a fascist, so it's fine, or you have to

2184
02:02:07,320 --> 02:02:10,520
Speaker 1: be I know a lot about sports and we don't.

2185
02:02:10,600 --> 02:02:14,400
Speaker 2: We clearly demonstrated that today that we do not know.

2186
02:02:14,760 --> 02:02:17,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, if there was any reason that now you know

2187
02:02:17,440 --> 02:02:19,120
Speaker 1: both did you both did?

2188
02:02:19,200 --> 02:02:19,480
Speaker 4: Great?

2189
02:02:19,840 --> 02:02:24,040
Speaker 1: Thank you, thanks so much. You can find us on.

2190
02:02:25,520 --> 02:02:29,400
Speaker 2: No we are nothing without the validation of men.

2191
02:02:29,480 --> 02:02:31,560
Speaker 1: It's true of dad.

2192
02:02:33,960 --> 02:02:35,160
Speaker 4: Oh no, it's so hard.

2193
02:02:35,320 --> 02:02:40,320
Speaker 1: I only I only he's crying, he's crying. There. You

2194
02:02:40,320 --> 02:02:43,520
Speaker 1: can find us online up at Bechdel Cast on Instagram

2195
02:02:43,600 --> 02:02:46,640
Speaker 1: and Twitter. You can sign up for Patreon aka Patreon,

2196
02:02:47,120 --> 02:02:50,280
Speaker 1: patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast, where you get two

2197
02:02:50,320 --> 02:02:54,920
Speaker 1: bonus episodes every month for mere five dollars and also

2198
02:02:55,000 --> 02:02:57,880
Speaker 1: get access to about one hundred and fifty episodes of

2199
02:02:57,960 --> 02:03:01,720
Speaker 1: back catalog on the Patreon. Wow and it's my birthday

2200
02:03:01,720 --> 02:03:05,240
Speaker 1: over there this month too. We really value birthdays on

2201
02:03:05,280 --> 02:03:08,480
Speaker 1: this podcast, so that's true, we'll be covering Little Shop

2202
02:03:08,520 --> 02:03:11,960
Speaker 1: of Horrors and a second one that on the day

2203
02:03:12,000 --> 02:03:14,800
Speaker 1: of this recording. I've not yet decided my second evil

2204
02:03:14,880 --> 02:03:17,600
Speaker 1: pick for the Patreon, but oh I will think of

2205
02:03:17,640 --> 02:03:20,560
Speaker 1: something and it will be annoying. So head over there

2206
02:03:20,760 --> 02:03:21,000
Speaker 1: for that.

2207
02:03:21,120 --> 02:03:23,880
Speaker 4: And Caitlin, when it comes happy birthday to YouTube, Thank

2208
02:03:23,920 --> 02:03:24,760
Speaker 4: you so much.

2209
02:03:25,480 --> 02:03:29,320
Speaker 2: It will be in about eight months.

2210
02:03:29,240 --> 02:03:31,760
Speaker 4: Okay something like that, so just keep that in mind.

2211
02:03:32,160 --> 02:03:34,240
Speaker 4: It's coming. I don't want to miss out my chance.

2212
02:03:34,320 --> 02:03:37,800
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. And you can also get our

2213
02:03:37,880 --> 02:03:41,760
Speaker 2: merch at teapublic dot com slash the Bechdel Cast for

2214
02:03:42,280 --> 02:03:48,280
Speaker 2: our glorious items available for purchase at any time.

2215
02:03:48,920 --> 02:03:52,560
Speaker 1: And with that, why don't we get on this local

2216
02:03:52,720 --> 02:03:56,840
Speaker 1: parade float and lie about our wives leaving us.

2217
02:03:57,440 --> 02:03:58,320
Speaker 2: Let's do it.

2218
02:03:59,000 --> 02:04:00,160
Speaker 1: Bye bye, ay,