1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: You're talking about some pretty dangerous guys. Who's there some gangsters. 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: There are some pretty angry people there. I mean to 3 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: lose their money and be disrobed and embarrassed like that. 4 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: And that wasn't something that was was taken too lightly 5 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: at all. It was such a night matter me. We 6 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: don't want nobody here to get hurt. They knew what 7 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: they were doing, the biggest hustling in New York, the 8 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: biggest hustler there. They the biggest in Chicago, and unbread 9 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 1: men and the food and get robbed. They made threats. 10 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:37,879 Speaker 1: I guess our family. They were gonna kill me, my 11 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: little sister. They were gonna kill my mom. Their attitude 12 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: of that power world, it's somewhere. One day they were say, 13 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: they said, the man guys go to back from my 14 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: Heart radio and doghouse pictures. This is fight night. I'm 15 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: Jeff Keating. Chicken Man's world was turned upside down. The 16 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: party that was supposed to set him up for good 17 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:13,480 Speaker 1: was over, and now he was living a nightmare. He 18 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: knew that even if he survived the masked gunmen who 19 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,919 Speaker 1: forced him to undress and lie on the basement floor, 20 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: that the gangsters who entrusted him to host this party, 21 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 1: now have him on their minds. As the crowds continue 22 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 1: to swell, the scene became too much for the robbers 23 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: to handle. Here I am with James Martin, the owner 24 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: of the house where the robbery went down. So James 25 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: Gordon is now downstairs with everybody else, and the crowds 26 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: are starting to increase in size as they are coming 27 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: to the front door. And what happens is a large 28 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: group James comes up to the house. They obviously see 29 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: the curtains drawn, they hear the music, but because there's 30 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: so many of them now, one of the men or 31 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: women in the back of the group sees when the 32 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: door opens a gun and yells it's a robbery or 33 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:15,519 Speaker 1: he's got a gun. Well, I would think that the 34 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 1: neighbors would have reported it. We've got a cement walk 35 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,359 Speaker 1: away with grass on both sides leading up to the house. 36 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: We've got a iron fence that is about two to 37 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: three ft high with a big drop off towards the driveway, 38 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: which means that you can't really jump or go to 39 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: the right of the house if you're trying to escape. 40 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: And they run next door to the left here and 41 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: from what I heard. They started banging on the door 42 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: loudly and eventually get somebody inside to call the police. 43 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 1: We've got the people down there on Handy Drive with 44 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: the walkie talkies. Because of the rise of the street. 45 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: I don't think that they can see people in this 46 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: yard right here. They can't see them rushing next door 47 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: to call the police. Here's Chicken Man and j D 48 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: discussing what happened when the party goers approaching the house 49 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: saw the masked gunmen at the front door. People, but 50 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 1: why the water run next door and one around across 51 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: the stre your mother or two whatever these there was 52 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: a lot of They caught it off. They said, this 53 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: is it now. You went there already know what they 54 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: were saying on the on the on the walk and talk. Yeah, 55 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: I forgot that they're about to walk our talk is 56 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: and the guys and listen, we gotta get we got 57 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: we gotta get out of here. And nobody got hood 58 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: and nobody want to get killed. And the man on 59 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:56,119 Speaker 1: the outside. I hear the man and I said, yeah, 60 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: but come on out, come on out, come on out there. Okay. 61 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: So they're making everybody stay down and they're gathering the 62 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: acns whatever. And if the situation wasn't bad enough, they 63 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: got even worse when the robbers decided to take hostages. 64 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 1: Here's Chicken Man quoting what the robbers said to the 65 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 1: victims lying on the basement floor to stay where you are. 66 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: We're going out of here. We're gonna take two or 67 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: three the women with us and we'll let them go. 68 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 1: We don't want to hurt nobody. Just drive a talk. 69 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: We're not gonna bother them or nothing. We're gonna protects them. 70 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: And uh, that's the way they split. One of them 71 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: was a girlfriend of mine who lived in Dials cant Baba. 72 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: Here I am with James trying to figure out how 73 00:04:55,640 --> 00:05:00,840 Speaker 1: the robbers made their escape with the hostages. That's where 74 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 1: some of the robbers took off. Some of the robbers 75 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 1: took off maybe the front, you know, James, this is 76 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: what I really don't know. And that's the reason why 77 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 1: they would have to have Barbara with them, because she'd 78 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: had the calf the keys of the back door in 79 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: order to get out, unless they made her already unlock 80 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: it earlier in the evening, which I'm which I'm thinking 81 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: they do that they know that they've got to get 82 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: access to that back door. The reason I'm thinking that 83 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 1: they took Barbara with them was beat to the unlocked 84 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: the back door, So they probably took her down the 85 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: steps and you know, she unlocked the door and they 86 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 1: just took her whipon. My thought is because they had 87 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 1: the getaway driver about four blocks down that they walk. 88 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: You talk to him saying, hey, this thing is over, 89 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: we gotta get out of here. They zoom up here, 90 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 1: maybe circle around in the cul de sac or whatever, 91 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 1: They jump in the car and then go from there. 92 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: I described to James the characters who were signed to 93 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 1: greet the party goers at the front door, specifically the 94 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: ruthless leader and main muscle in charge of the robbery crew, 95 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: fast Eddie Parker. Fast Eddie Parker would have been one 96 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: of the gunmen at the front door, holding a three 97 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 1: fifty seven with a silencer. The other gunmen would have 98 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 1: been McKinley Rogers holding a sawed off shotguns. These guys 99 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: grew up in Brunswick, Georgia, and ended up in New 100 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,799 Speaker 1: York as hustlers working together. Fast Eddie became the enforcer 101 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: for Richard Wheeler, a k A. Cadillac Ritchie, one of Cadillac. 102 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: Ritchie's girlfriend's Jackie, described fast Eddie as a terrible man. 103 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: He was about thirty six years old. He wore a 104 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: short brimmed hat, and he always carried around a black bag. 105 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 1: When George Plimpton, who wrote Shadow Box, asked Jackie if 106 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 1: she ever looked in that black bag, she said, God, no, God, no, 107 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 1: oh Lord, there could have been a head in that bag. 108 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: So these are like real gangsters that I've seen the movies. 109 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: Now that doesn't even sound real. That actually happened. These 110 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: were tough men with serious violent acts in their pasts. 111 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: They had spent years doing stick up robberies in New 112 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: York and now they were in the middle of the 113 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: biggest heist of their lives. Here's j D with Chicken Man, 114 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: guessing what the robbers did when the party became overcrowded 115 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: and too much to handle. Then they started leave. They left. 116 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: Now you may know more about the night they left. 117 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: What what? What? We'll go ahead, they left. I'm thinking 118 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: that when they left the delays people who left the party. 119 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: Rober left must have been Bucky Brown and that gal 120 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: who's taking a ship off women. Okay, here I am 121 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: with James as we retraced the steps of j D's conjecture. 122 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: Bookie Brown and Lillian Dabney were downstairs making their escape 123 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: through the basement door. It's important to understand, James. We 124 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: know that Frank Morten probably had a bodyguard waiting in 125 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: a car on Old No and could have seen anybody 126 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: coming out this back or and going through the backyard 127 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: to that street. So we're walking into the back yard 128 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: at the house now and going to retrace the steps 129 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: of some of the robbers as they're doing their getaway. 130 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: So it was all of this was open anyway. There 131 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: was no offense on this back end, so they were 132 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: definitely able to go through the backyard to get to 133 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: the to the back street of oh No in order 134 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 1: to get away. I'm assuming, James, that's a very good assumption. 135 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: You've got a clear shot of Old No. How far 136 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: do you think that is? Maybe thirty forty yards to 137 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 1: the house and then another thirty forty yards, So I 138 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: mean we're talking about one football field maybe from the 139 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: back of the house to Old No. Where there would 140 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: have been another card somehow. As the robbers leaving with 141 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 1: this third woman, he sees that there is a getaway 142 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: car and he drops the girl and the gun and 143 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: the satchel. He tells the woman, Hey, baby, I gotta 144 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: get out of here. I gotta drop you now and 145 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 1: grab some leather, something to that effect. But what's important 146 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: to understand is that he basically has to leave her 147 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,719 Speaker 1: and the satchel and the shotgun at the scene of 148 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: the robbery, and that's eventually what leads the police to 149 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: their first clue. The robbers had made their escape and 150 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 1: taken two hostages with them, Barbara Smith and another lady 151 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: from New York. Chicken Man and all the other hustlers 152 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 1: and gangsters were half naked and trying to figure out 153 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: what the hell just happened, and they were about to 154 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:02,559 Speaker 1: do the police, who were going to start asking them 155 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: a bunch of questions. Here's Jad and Chicken Man explaining 156 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: to me why none of the victims wanted to report 157 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:16,199 Speaker 1: the robbery. They were all hustless and everybody's waiting to 158 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: hear about him day behind. The rest would have gone crazy. 159 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: They put them all intoil, the local deals put him 160 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 1: into him. Everybody wanted them. They knew what they were doing. 161 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: They robbed it because they know we if if that 162 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 1: don't happen. The people don't call the police because the 163 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: robber and they come in and robber, everybody leaves and 164 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: none of us don't call the police. It was such 165 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: a night matter me because the boys thing could have 166 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 1: happened has already has happened. The worst thing that could 167 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: have happened has already happened. That's what Chicken Man told 168 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: me when I interviewed him in two thousand and four. 169 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: Are now, if you're Chicken Man, right now, your head 170 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: is spinning. You're thinking, what am I gonna do? What's 171 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: gonna happen to me? What's gonna happen to my family? 172 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: What the hell just happened? And what are Frank Moten 173 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: and all these hustlers thinking? Just went down? Because if 174 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: I'm Chicken Man, I'm thinking that they're thinking that I 175 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: did it. Here's Chicken Man describing the scene in the basement. 176 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: Once the robbers were gone. See what did it took 177 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:41,599 Speaker 1: everybody pocketbook and stretched shredded it. Like you know, you 178 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: look through all the compartments. So everybody driving lies here 179 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: was all in the middle flow among all the other cards, 180 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: and then all this thing and I mean it is 181 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 1: through the long patent. Well, that's when everybody got a 182 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 1: chance to see who was really there, because otherwise when 183 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: you when you came in, they put their face down 184 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,079 Speaker 1: to the floor, so you didn't know. Oh, you know, 185 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 1: some more people on the other side of you. You know, 186 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: I don't know who they were. They mean the girls. 187 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: Now they had about eight chair a little make sure 188 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: the bob we had. They had the girls sitting up 189 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 1: on the bar, all the girls, just to fill up 190 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,839 Speaker 1: the school. Yeah, it's good, but everybody else was on 191 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: the floor. That's when I realized that some of the 192 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: people who were there where I know him from different 193 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: places New York or were having because they did the invitement. 194 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: I didn't know everybody. At some point after the robbers left, 195 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: I'm guessing chicken In and Frank Molten must have exchanged words. 196 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: This is a quote from The Black Godfather in George 197 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: Plimpton's book shadow Box. We couldn't hear the radios no more. 198 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 1: People slowly got up and looked around. Then they tried 199 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,079 Speaker 1: to find their clothing. It lay there in a tall 200 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: pile like a rummed sale, and people were calling out, 201 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: I got so and so's credit cards, but I don't 202 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: remember much laughing. I recall the Chicken Man was wearing 203 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: a pair of long underwear, and someone came up and 204 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: said that if he was wearing long underwear, he must 205 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: have known he was going to spend the night lying 206 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:25,959 Speaker 1: on the cellar floor. He was prepared and man that 207 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 1: meant he was implicated. Chicken Man was looking guilty. The 208 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,559 Speaker 1: newspapers would report the claim that Chicken Man was wearing 209 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: long John's. It could be the second most damning evidence 210 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: that Chicken Man was involved in this caper. The first 211 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: was that he owned the house where the party took place. 212 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,679 Speaker 1: Here's Chicken Man and j D reflecting on the mistake 213 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: the robbers had made. The attitude at that time where 214 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: they worth about the robbers. They worried about the doing. 215 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: The embarrassment they did have nothing else made them do mad. 216 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:08,079 Speaker 1: Their money. Didn't mean about that money, boy making the 217 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: warm un addressed boy, I didn't give about the money. 218 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: They didn't give a damn, but didn't get they said 219 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:17,839 Speaker 1: the money. The robbers fled the party house on Handy 220 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: Drive with over a million dollars in cash and jewelry 221 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: and took three hostages with them. Dozens and dozens of 222 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: people had been robbed and they were in shock. But 223 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: as they began putting their clothes back on and rummaging 224 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: through the pile of belongings on the floor, they realized 225 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: they had no way to leave. Their car keys were gone. 226 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: Here's the conversation between Chicken Men and j D describing 227 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: when the cops first arrived on the scene. So when 228 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: the police calm, I'm days. They took cockys mad from 229 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: Acne come out there and stayed out there half of 230 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: day making keys. So they all the cockies. But when 231 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: the police coming, they didn't know nobody. Brother nicks on 232 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 1: me so checking what you're doing here? This is your 233 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: house now When when I look up, I see you 234 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: to bird because the people trying to find the driver 235 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: lines and the women drawings over here. So when the 236 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: police come, so they just asking no questions. You know 237 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: you said the robber went that way, ain't there with 238 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: an about the net And I got to get my 239 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: ass out of there. Brother, this none of go kiss 240 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: the robber. If you find it, then come back with no. 241 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: I don't know what. So when the man run into me, 242 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: you take a man, and so he started asking me questions. 243 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: So I said, listen man the robber that happened that 244 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: people got the money. People come there and stuff and 245 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: stuck all of us up. So I'm I'm telling what 246 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: the New Yorkice telling. Don't ask me nothing. The robber 247 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: went that way. Kiss the robber my understanding. I think 248 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: we're go way and covering the frank. I found out 249 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: that the people were from everywhere. I was always sure 250 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: of that. But after they back to the fair cover 251 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: then they began to leave anybody's As the hustlers and 252 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: gangsters tried to find transportation to leave Chicken Man's house, 253 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: he was still in shock and worried sick about Barbara 254 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: and the other lady taking hostage. I took him up 255 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: there no side and bank here and the boba said. 256 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: The guy said, if I uh said, baby shows nice 257 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: and everybody at the time, I just kill you on 258 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: win me and then uh and give him well are 259 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: you gonna get back? And then him twenty hours or something. 260 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: The kids a cab to come back through the house. 261 00:16:54,920 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: They let them go, Let them go. It's unbelievable, well 262 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: that Barbara and her friend would be able to find 263 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 1: a cab at around three in the morning on a 264 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: dark deserted street. Some reports say they picked up a 265 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: ride from some late night partiers still celebrating Ali's victory. 266 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: In any case, Barbara and her friend made their way 267 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: back to the house on Handy Drive while Chicken in 268 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: watched the gangsters who were robbed gathered their clothes and leave. 269 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: Someone were just trying to get to a bus stop 270 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 1: or whatever they want to get back to the hotel 271 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: with all of us was checked in and somebody's hotel. 272 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 1: None of them lived, so and we called cabin and 273 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 1: cav came, and cavs came. The attitude at that time world, 274 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: they didn't they work about the robber. They didn't know 275 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 1: the robber to mistake. It's somewhere one day they were paid. 276 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 1: You know a guy, the biggest hustler in New York, 277 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: the biggest hustler now the biggest in Chicago. Have none 278 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: dressed the flo and get robbed. I mean the restaurant life. 279 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: He's been ratified. Who who who did that? And he's 280 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: gonna kill it. That's what we told me. Everything. It 281 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: was these guys going to back after the robbers left 282 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: and before Leach came to the house with your hotel 283 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 1: because I was I was bumped. I was out of 284 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 1: the Next morning, while Chicken Men was at a hotel 285 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 1: sleeping off the horrors of the night before, one of 286 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: the hustlers who got robbed was in front of his 287 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:43,239 Speaker 1: house being interviewed by WSB and this feels long goo 288 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:47,159 Speaker 1: to me, and the show said stick your hands up. 289 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 1: I said, man, stop jabbing and hit him. He said, 290 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 1: I'm not jabbing better, and he pushed me around to come. 291 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: When he pushed me around the corner, and he's told 292 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: me this was to shut down to my head, and 293 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: I said, I'm not There's not no stage, Joe. I'm 294 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: not jabbing. I'm for real. And when he said that, 295 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,159 Speaker 1: I was really to push him in a no because 296 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,679 Speaker 1: I just had It's all the fact. And by that 297 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: time two or three more filers came out. Was shutting 298 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: and as I said, he's not jabbing. When Chicken Men 299 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: finally gets up and leaves the hotel, he stops off 300 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: and gets a newspaper. He was surprised to see his 301 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: face on the cover. This is the same article my 302 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: father showed me at the Decatur Library almost twenty years ago. 303 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: And when I came out to the hotel and next morning, 304 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: my pictures on the front page of the paper talking 305 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: about the dribber and and they put a cash mount 306 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 1: on it, on the robbery. So I called his lawyer. 307 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: But it made news. Why newspaper all over the time. 308 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: See my picture on the paper, and if people robbed us, 309 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,679 Speaker 1: and we're robbing you know. And but I knew what 310 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: that meant. When it is like I had robbed the people, 311 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: it's like I had set it up. Here is a 312 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: piece from the Atlanta Journal on October nine, which describes 313 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: the estimated take from the robbery. According to Lieutenant Bird, 314 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: one of the first detectives that showed up at the heist, 315 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:21,880 Speaker 1: one of the gunmen threatened the guests with this warning 316 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: and I quote, if you raise your head, I will 317 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 1: blow it off. End quote from the same article, and 318 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: I quote one of the guests informed me that is 319 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: lost in jewelry alone was about twenty thousand dollars. There's 320 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 1: really no way to set the exact loss, since the 321 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: majority of the victims refused to file official complaints. However, 322 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 1: several said it would be a hundred thousand and two 323 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:54,719 Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars or possibly more. End quote. The total 324 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,640 Speaker 1: hall from the robbery would increase over the next few weeks. 325 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: We know the partygoers did I want to talk to 326 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: the police because that would lead directly to the I R, 327 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:08,439 Speaker 1: S and FBI asking questions. We also know that Chicken 328 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: Man was the key suspect in the robbery. And the 329 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: next day J. D. Hudson was assigned to the case 330 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: by the Chief of Police, Herberty Jenkins, and the chief saying, 331 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: Lutana Hudson is running this damn fame. He directly to 332 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 1: me and we are not shape the chief shape in 333 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 1: the mass THO out about that, and he never make 334 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:31,959 Speaker 1: me sense things right right there at that I need 335 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: the chiefs etect was superlim of the okay, that was 336 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 1: the text. And Lieutenant and you were Detective Blue Tenant 337 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 1: and so was he supposed to have He was your boy. 338 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: But now boom, his boss is telling him that you're 339 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: in charge of the investigator and I report to him, 340 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: and you were bort to the chief and what was 341 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 1: the chiefs name back then, Perty Jenkins. The chiefs called 342 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,360 Speaker 1: me and told me you want to be to get 343 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 1: the case because none of the huspal talked to the police. 344 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: We'll not talk to the robber intective, we'll talk to anybody, 345 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 1: and so I started the investigation. When the robbery happened, 346 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: he took charge. Chief of Police Herberty Jenkins, gave J. D. 347 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:26,160 Speaker 1: Hudson a partner, Lieutenant Joe Amos. Amos was working international 348 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,880 Speaker 1: security at the time, but they were both pulled off 349 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 1: their regular assignments and worked this robbery case together for 350 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 1: the next several weeks. I remember when day I was 351 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,920 Speaker 1: coming down Mind of the King and it was shouted 352 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: after the rocks. I was visible when they were the robbery. 353 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: I wouldn't get out of side for five minutes because 354 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: I don't want to people think I didn't gonna count 355 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: of money and him and Amos was prob turned around 356 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 1: on the sen and uh. He wanted me to come 357 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 1: down to the station and identify somethings as I did. 358 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: H I don't want to knew it that y'all got 359 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: him do what you can would then robbed me. I 360 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: don't even want to see rob well, you know what 361 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: I wanted to. I want to talk to you to 362 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: see could you have us figure out who the robbers were? 363 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 1: Because I knew that I don't know what you was convinced, 364 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 1: but I was convinced that you were not involved because, 365 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:26,639 Speaker 1: like I said, I was able to place you in 366 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,479 Speaker 1: the fight. J D. Hudson new chicken Man was at 367 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: the fight, so he assumes he had nothing to do 368 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,919 Speaker 1: with the robbery. How about people who were at the party, 369 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 1: did he know any of them? Here's J. D. Hudson 370 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 1: and Chicken Man talking about that. I was never really 371 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: told who all was there for his blacke mank I 372 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 1: didn't want I didn't want to know. I couldn't know 373 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 1: who was there and what they did and also find 374 00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: out what happened, because if I started planning to finding 375 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,399 Speaker 1: who these people were and what that that what they 376 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: did in life, they would have told me a damn BA, 377 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: don't read people. They were talked to. That we got 378 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: people to talk to us is because the local hustitals 379 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 1: told him that agree with people, uh that we talked to, 380 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: you know, and uh no, they could trust it. And 381 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:23,239 Speaker 1: you know, you had to. You had to. You had 382 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: to decide whether you want to be a basquat detect 383 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: or racket racket detective, investigator or robbery. My nation was 384 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: to investigator robbery and talking to some of the hustles, 385 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: they told the guys who I was all about to 386 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 1: be and that they could talk to me because I 387 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: didn't care what they did. Wherever they were came from 388 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: in their owners they asked for saying about we didn't 389 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 1: want to better killed in the Atlanta but the chief strected, 390 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,120 Speaker 1: but don't get the better killer and anybody else killed. 391 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,639 Speaker 1: The next few days after the robbery, Chicken Man was 392 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: trying to stay alive and clear his name with the press, 393 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 1: the police and the gangsters that he assumed were trying 394 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:16,120 Speaker 1: to have him killed, and he was most concerned about 395 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: his family's safety. Here's Gordon Williams Jr. Talking about the 396 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: threats against their lives. People thought he was responsible. Everybody 397 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 1: thought my dad set that party up. I mean it 398 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: came out on the news, It came out everywhere that 399 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,639 Speaker 1: Chicken Man had set everybody up. You're talking about some 400 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: pretty dangerous guys who was there, some gangsters. So they 401 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: made threats against our family. We had threats about they 402 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 1: were gonna blow our house up, they were gonna kill me, 403 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 1: my my little sister, they were gonna kill my mom. 404 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 1: You know, they were gonna kill us because my dad 405 00:25:53,800 --> 00:26:03,880 Speaker 1: had taken their money. Fight night. It is a joint 406 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: production from My Heart Radio, Will Packer Media and Doghouse 407 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 1: Pictures in association with Psychopia Pictures. Produced and hosted by 408 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:16,119 Speaker 1: Jeff Keating. Executive producers are Will Packer, James Lopez, Kenny Burns, 409 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 1: Dan Bush, Lars Jacobsen, and Noel Brown. Supervising producer is 410 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,639 Speaker 1: Taylor Hicoyne. Story editors are Noel Brown and Dan Bush. 411 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: Written by Jeff Keeting and Jim Roberts. Edited by Matt Owen. 412 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: Mixing and sound designed by Jeremiah Kolonni Prescott music written 413 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: and performed by The Diamond Street Players. Additional music by 414 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 1: Ben Lovett. Audio archives courtesy of WSB News Film and 415 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 1: Video Tape Collection, Brown Media Archives, University of Georgia Libraries. 416 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: Special thanks to Dr Maurice Hobson and David Davis. Fight 417 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: Night is a production of I Heart Radio. For more 418 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 1: podcasts from my Heart Radio, check out the I heart 419 00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.