1 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: Diversion audio. A note this episode contains mature content and 2 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: descriptions of violence that may be disturbing for some listeners. 3 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: Please take care in listening. Mountain City, Tennessee, is a 4 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: small place, the kind of place where everyone knows each other. 5 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: Maybe you run into your high school teacher at the 6 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 1: grocery store or your dentist at the diner. That kind 7 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: of place. You know. If you're from there, it's warm 8 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 1: and friendly. If you're in then you can do no wrong. 9 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: If you're not from around there, it's a little different. 10 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: You can find real suspicion. It's not hard to feel 11 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: like an outsider. I mean, Mountain City is a little 12 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: bit country. It's up in the Tennessee Mountains. As the 13 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:18,119 Speaker 1: name probably told you so. Beautiful, but not always easy. 14 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: There's not a lot of money around. People can be tough. Still. 15 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 1: Everyone leaves their doors unlocked, whether you're local or not. 16 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: You don't expect someone to break in and shoot you 17 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: in the face, or slit your throat, or put a 18 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: bullet through your girlfriend's brain while she's holding your infant 19 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 1: child in her arms, or leave that baby lying there crying, 20 00:01:47,760 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: covered in its mother's blood. Welcome to the greatest true 21 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: crime stories ever told. I'm Mary Kay mcbrair. I'm a 22 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 1: writer of true crime, which means I live inside the 23 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: research wormhole. I'm constantly reading about crime, but I'm not 24 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: necessarily interested in the headline grabbing elements, the blood and 25 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: the gore, all of that. I'm more interested in the 26 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: people behind these stories and what we can learn about 27 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: society by looking at their experiences. That's what I explore 28 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: here every week when I dig into crimes where a 29 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: woman is not just a victim. She might be the detective, 30 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: the lawyer, the witness, the coroner, the criminal, or a 31 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 1: combination of those roles. As you probably already know, women 32 00:02:54,680 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 1: can do anything. Today's episode is part one of the 33 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: Catfish Killer. It's not your usual true crime story. This 34 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: one's intense and twisted. It's one of the most bizarre, 35 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: hard to piece together murder stories I've ever come across. 36 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: In fact, to get through all the weird details of 37 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: this whole sordid tale, I need some extra space. So 38 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: this is the first of a two episode mini series. 39 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: It's the story of a young couple who are murdered 40 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: in cold blood. It's also the story of a very 41 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: unusual family, violent online messages that may or may not 42 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: be tied to the CIA, multiple fake identities, and a 43 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: lot of other mind boggling stuff that you would not 44 00:03:50,280 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: expect in a sleepy little place like Mountain City, Tennessee. 45 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: If you're listening to this podcast, then you have to 46 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: be at least a little tech literate. More than likely, 47 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: if you're a true crime follower, you have some tricks 48 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: up your sleeve, right. I know I've talked about doing 49 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 1: this myself before, but I'd bet you're like me, the 50 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: one who does all the recon on your friends, blind dates, 51 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 1: reverse image searching, or Google lensing as they've rebranded it, 52 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: all the photos of their matches, checking for photos of 53 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: them standing in doorframes to see if they're lying about 54 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: their height, because if they'll lie about something as trivial 55 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 1: as that, who knows what else they'll lie about. You're 56 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: probably the one who puts their phone number into a 57 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: simple Internet search to make sure they're not only an 58 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: actual person, but a person who also exists in and 59 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 1: interacts with the world. I mean, you know they have 60 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: or have had, a job, some relatives, a place to live, 61 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: some friends who can vouch for them. I remember the 62 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: first time I told my mom I had to take 63 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: all those precautions. She was totally bewildered that things had 64 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 1: changed so much, from just walking up to someone on 65 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 1: a dance floor and striking up a conversation to so 66 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: much research, planning, vetting, all before you even know whether 67 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: you like them. And y'all, my mom is a young 68 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: sixty she has an online business. She's not like doing 69 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: taxes on her advocus. The learning curve on an online 70 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:59,280 Speaker 1: presence is steep, and it's not flattening out anytime soon. 71 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: If anything, it keeps extrapolating. I mean, I was a 72 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: late adopter to TikTok, and now I'm grandma over here 73 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: swiping the wrong direction on her screen. And don't get 74 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: me started on these insufferable Twitter interface changes. All that 75 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 1: to say, the Internet has deeply affected our communication, for 76 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: better and worse. I'm a millennial, so I barely didn't 77 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: have the Internet in my life, and I can still 78 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: clock how it's somehow easier and harder to talk to people. 79 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: For example, how many times have I genuinely thought I 80 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: responded to that text or lost the link among my 81 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: apps many messengers, or assumed someone had a snappy tone 82 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: in a comment on one of my photos, and is 83 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,239 Speaker 1: there anything that will make my heart do an elevator drop, 84 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: like being en route and losing cell service. Plus there's 85 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: weird sort of etiquette to social media, and there's no 86 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 1: real Emily post guide for navigating it. We'll get mad 87 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: if our friends don't love heart our selfies in the 88 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: first few minutes of the post going live. But if 89 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:22,679 Speaker 1: an acquaintance likes twelve of our photos at three am, yikes. 90 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: We're going to start this episode meeting a woman named 91 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: Tracy Greenwell. She was a pretty normal Mountain City woman, 92 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: born and bred. She worked a couple of jobs, including 93 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,679 Speaker 1: at the pharmacy in town. That's where she met twenty 94 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: nine year old Janelle Potter in two thousand and nine. 95 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: Janelle was always coming in for medication. She had some 96 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: chronic health issues, including diabetes and an auditory disorder that 97 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: meant she had trouble detecting the tone of people's statements. 98 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: She couldn't really tell sarcasm or teasing from serious statements, 99 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: for example, which is huge. I mean, tone is everything. 100 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: Those issues naturally took a toll on her social life. 101 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: She was very socially awkward, sometimes hugging people she barely 102 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: knew as if they were old friends. She was constantly 103 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: sending Facebook friend requests to people she'd only met in passing. Plus, 104 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: while she wasn't helpless by any stretch, she couldn't drive 105 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: or work because of her health issues. She also still 106 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: lived with her parents, Buddy and Barbara. They had all 107 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 1: moved to Mountain City back in two thousand and four 108 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: from Pennsylvania. Basically, Janelle didn't really have a social life. 109 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: As far as Tracy could tell from their encounters in town, 110 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: most of Janelle's life was spent on the family computer, 111 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: scrolling through the profiles of the people she'd friend or quested, 112 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: looking at photos of them living their full lives. That 113 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: made Tracy feel bad for Janelle. She had a Facebook 114 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: account just like everyone else by two thousand and nine, 115 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 1: but she was a Mountain City woman. She knew that 116 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: community friendship, all of that. It was important and it 117 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: had to take place in real life. So she decided 118 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:34,319 Speaker 1: to do what I think is a really very very 119 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: kind thing. She reached out to the Potter family asking 120 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: if Janelle wanted to go to the mall in the 121 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: neighboring city Boone. Something odd happened. Then Janelle's parents, Buddy 122 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: and Barbara, insisted Tracy come over and spend some time 123 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: with them first. My parents did this sort of vetting 124 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:03,559 Speaker 1: when I was an elementary school. Imagine being a grown 125 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: ass woman wanting to go to the mall with a 126 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: new friend, and your mom needs to meet them first. 127 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: Imagine now. It had been obvious to Tracy from the 128 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: get go that the Potters were very protective of Janelle. 129 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,199 Speaker 1: It wasn't just that she lived with them. That's common enough. 130 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: She was also always with one of her parents. But still, 131 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 1: Tracy was surprised that she had to meet the parents 132 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: before just going to the mall with their adult daughter. 133 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: But she shrugged off the weirdness. She had started this 134 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: good deed, and she wasn't going to stop now. She 135 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:51,839 Speaker 1: headed over to the Potters. Dennis Brooks, a Tennessee prosecutor, 136 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: eventually wrote the book Too Pretty to Live about everything 137 00:10:55,679 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: that happened in Mountain City, and Brooks described Janelle's dad, 138 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: Buddy this way. Quote he had been a marine, and 139 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 1: he was one of those types that like to remind 140 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: the world of that fact. He wore the ball caps. 141 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: To prove that status, he had a wall at home 142 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:19,679 Speaker 1: with all his military pictures, medals, and decorations prominently displayed. 143 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: I'm from what used to be a small town in 144 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: the South. If you are too, then you know this 145 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 1: guy right. He's also always carrying a gun, or several 146 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:39,679 Speaker 1: guns Buddy carried even around his own house. But maybe 147 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: the oddest thing about Buddy is that he regularly bragged 148 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: about having worked for the CIA. He wouldn't say much 149 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: more than that, though, he insisted that he could not 150 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 1: give any details about that work. I just to me, 151 00:11:56,160 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: nothing says I'm a liar more than bragging about working 152 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: for the CIA. Homie, No, you did it. Nobody who 153 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: works for the CIA admits they work for the CIA. 154 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: Janelle's mom, Barbara, meanwhile, was the type to talk and overdrive, 155 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 1: just a constant words dream, the kind of person where 156 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 1: half an hour in you have to wonder do you 157 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 1: even need me for this conversation? And there was a 158 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: kind of edge to how she spoke. She and actually 159 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: the whole family, seemed to have a lot of problems 160 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: with people, like people had wronged them or were mean. 161 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: The Potters use the word mean a lot down around here, 162 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: people say mean when they mean cruel, but mean also 163 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: means inferior or base and sometimes this is something else 164 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: that stuck out to Dennis Brooks and I can't help 165 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: but agree or seemed to make these crazy jumps from 166 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: saying someone was mean straight to saying they wanted to 167 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: kill her. That is a bit of a leap, and 168 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: none of it really makes for the best conversation when 169 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: you're talking to someone you barely know, like Tracy. But 170 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: Tracy worked in the service industry. That meant she had 171 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: special skills like extreme patience and knowing how to deal 172 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: with all types of personalities. She made a good impression 173 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 1: on the Potters, and after a few visits to their house, 174 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: Janelle was allowed to go off to Boon with her. 175 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: After that, Tracy kept calling Janelle and inviting her to 176 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: hang out. Her perspective seemed like, well, the Potters are odd, 177 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,839 Speaker 1: but Janelle seems like a basically nice person who really 178 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: needs some friends. Now, call me an alarmist, but if 179 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: a twenty nine year old ain't got friends, maybe there's 180 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: a reason for that. I mean, it's not like she's 181 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: fourteen and awkward. She's a grown ass. Second, career aged woman. 182 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: If she doesn't have even one friend, maybe she don't 183 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: want any. But Tracy is a real white hat. She 184 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: not only took Janelle to the mall after meeting her parents, 185 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: she even introduced Janelle to her group of friends that 186 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: included her brother, Bill Payne, a charming local playboy, and 187 00:14:51,720 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: Jamie Kurd, a cousin and close friend of Bill's. This 188 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: was a group that liked to drink, even pop a 189 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 1: few pills here and there, but they were respectful of 190 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: Janelle's much more sheltered experience. While Tracy did sometimes take 191 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: her to a party or a bar, they also went 192 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: rock climbing with her that kind of thing, and Tracy 193 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: even had the idea of setting Janelle up with Jamie Kurd. 194 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: He was in his late thirties, but he had been 195 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: single his whole life, and Janelle was also very single. 196 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: They could be perfect together, and Tracy seemed to be right. 197 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: Despite the fact that Janelle thought her protective parents wouldn't 198 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: approve of a relationship with Jamie and so kept this 199 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: all very quiet, she did start calling him to chat regularly. 200 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: The two seemed to be getting closer, but meanwhile, Janelle 201 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: was also calling Tracy's brother Bill to chat. So that's 202 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: a fun twist that I did not see coming. But 203 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: that was one match that would never work. Bill always 204 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: had a girlfriend. In late two thousand and nine, there 205 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: was a new one, a pretty young brunette named Billy Jean, 206 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: who Bill had met at the factory where they both worked. 207 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: So if Janelle had a crush on Bill, she'd just 208 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: have to get over it and focus on Jamie instead, 209 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: who really liked her. That's what happened on the surface. 210 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: Tracy was happy to see Jamie and Janelle's relationship blossom 211 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: into something romantic, despite the fact that Janelle was still 212 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: keeping it a secret from her parents. She even took 213 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: Janelle to the mall and boone and then invited Jamie 214 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: along as well, so the couple could have a date together. Still, 215 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: most of Jamie and Janelle's relationship was virtual. She would 216 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: call him from her family phone, and eventually he got 217 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: her a secret self to communicate more easily. They'd stay 218 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: up talking for hours late at night, and while they 219 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: didn't have much opportunity to develop the physical side of things, 220 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 1: Janelle sent Jamie some very racy photos. As Dennis Brooks 221 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: puts it, in his Too Pretty to Live they involved 222 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: quote every part of Janelle's body, which I mean, do 223 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: your thing, girl. But you might be wondering, why is 224 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 1: all this secrecy necessary? Like Buddy and Barbara might be 225 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 1: protective of Janelle, and with her health issues and her 226 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:40,199 Speaker 1: social awkwardness, maybe they had a reason to be. But 227 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: surely they wanted their daughter to find love, have a 228 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: family of her own, all of that, right. I mean, 229 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: she's almost thirty, and while she isn't your average grown woman, 230 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 1: she's not incapable of any of that. But the thing is, 231 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: Janelle did have a reason to be this secretive about Jamie. 232 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 1: Her parents had actually met him. He came over to 233 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 1: the potterhouse a few times, ostensibly to help fix some 234 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: issues with a family computer, and Barbara and Buddy didn't 235 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: like him. Barbara called him quote ignorant and said he 236 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: quote smelled And she said that knowing that he was 237 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 1: interested in Janelle. No wonder Janelle didn't want to tell 238 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: her mother Jamie was her boyfriend. I'd be nervous too. 239 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,919 Speaker 1: Janelle's parents were all she had. It's not like she 240 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,360 Speaker 1: could run away to a friend's house or just kind 241 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: of shrug and stick out her tongue at her mom 242 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: for not liking her boyfriend like you or I might do. 243 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,159 Speaker 1: When her parents discovered Janelle's secret cell phone in the 244 00:18:54,160 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: spring of twenty ten, they confiscated it to put too 245 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 1: fine a point on it here, but she's thirty years 246 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: old anyway. Jamie was not to be deterred. He threw 247 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,679 Speaker 1: another phone into the bushes outside the Potter house so 248 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: they could keep talking, which is pretty hot, and their 249 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: relationship continued. Meanwhile, Bill Payne, Tracy's brother, the one Janelle 250 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 1: seemed to have a crush on, he started getting more 251 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: serious with that girl he'd met at the factory, Billy Jean. 252 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 1: By the end of twenty ten, she'd moved in and 253 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 1: she was pregnant. Love was in the air of Mountain City, 254 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: but so was something else, or rather in the ether online, 255 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 1: and it was not loving, not at all. Bear with me. 256 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 1: This is really disturbing, and I want to mention this 257 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 1: next part I want to read to you is very 258 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: oddly written. It's totally missing any real sense of grammar, 259 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:09,120 Speaker 1: but full of misspellings and bizarre syntax, so it's gonna 260 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 1: be hard to read aloud. It's an online post from 261 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: a message board, and it's got that, you know, typical 262 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 1: anonymous tone. So just visualize that while I read this, 263 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,360 Speaker 1: and if I start talking extra loud, I'm not shouting 264 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: at you. Those parts are written in capitals. Quote I'm 265 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: about to fight with you, Billy. Why don't you shut 266 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 1: up your fucking mouth, you bitch. One day girl, you 267 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: are going to get beat up really good and left 268 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 1: for dead. You better shut up, you bitch. Go fuck 269 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: a cow for all I care. Damn hooker, slut bag 270 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: whore and your bastard baby take it with you and 271 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: leave this fucking town. You won't leave here alive. Keep 272 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 1: on doing your damn fucking shit, bitch. Fuck you and 273 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: Bill and your fucking so called baby. Go after my 274 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: wife again, you little fucking wharbag. I hope you die, 275 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 1: and I hope it's a painful death. 276 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 2: You're a fucking nobody. 277 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: Posts like that horrible paragraph started showing up in April 278 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: twenty eleven on Topics, a website which hosted city specific 279 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: forums for cities around the country. The Mountain City page 280 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 1: was fairly active, mostly full of benign messages about local issues, 281 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: until the appearance of the posts about Billy Jean Hayworth, 282 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 1: Bill Payne's girlfriend, and several of her friends, especially Lindsay Thomas. 283 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 1: They were nasty. Now, the thing about topics is you 284 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 1: can post under any name, so there were apparently quite 285 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: a few people creating these posts, but the main one 286 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:15,160 Speaker 1: was named Matt Potter. The other accounts tended to respond 287 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:22,639 Speaker 1: to Matt Potter using very similar language. On Facebook, Matt 288 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: Potter was listed as Janelle Potter's brother. Now, she didn't 289 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: actually have a brother, just one sister, Christy, who was 290 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: not on great terms with the rest of the family. 291 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 1: But based on the things this Matt was saying, he 292 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: did seem to be associated with Janelle because he and 293 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,919 Speaker 1: the other similar accounts on topics weren't just saying truly 294 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 1: nasty things about Billy, Jean, Lindsay and their other friends. 295 00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 1: They were also saying positive things about Janelle and pitting 296 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: her against these other women for example. And again bear 297 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: with me, because everything about this post is so incredibly gross. 298 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,679 Speaker 1: They are whores, no good people, and that have nothing 299 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 1: else to do. They are nasty sluts and don't Lindsay 300 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:25,640 Speaker 1: have HIV? Is what I heard small Town and I 301 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: know this is true. What guy would want that bitch. 302 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,919 Speaker 1: She is so ugly and she is mad because Janelle 303 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 1: is so pretty and sweet and nice. They are trying 304 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 1: to hurt Janelle all the time like they have other girls. 305 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:45,479 Speaker 1: It's so sad. I went to school with her and 306 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: she is a bitch, nasty ass. She was HVI now 307 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: and she will give it to a lot of guys now. 308 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 1: They better get tested. I Am not even going to 309 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 1: try to explain everything wrong here because I'd basically have 310 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 1: to explicate that word for word, and who among us 311 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,919 Speaker 1: has the patience to examine that kind of hate on 312 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:12,719 Speaker 1: that level of detail. I trust you get the idea. Obviously, 313 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,920 Speaker 1: Billy Jean, her boyfriend Bill, Lindsay Thomas, and the other 314 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: targets of the posts were not happy, and they made 315 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: the same connection between Matt Potter and Janelle that I 316 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: just did. They also thought they basically understood why this 317 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:33,119 Speaker 1: was happening. Janelle had had a crush on Billy and 318 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: now she was jealous of Billy Jean, simple enough, even 319 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: if the reaction was extreme. But they barely knew Janelle. 320 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:46,959 Speaker 1: So in the autumn of twenty ten, it was Tracy 321 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: Greenwell who decided to try clearing the air she'd been 322 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,159 Speaker 1: the one to bring Janelle out into Mountain City social 323 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 1: life after all. In November twenty ten, Tracy typed the 324 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: following on Janelle's Facebook page, your friend Matt needs to 325 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: leave Billy Jean and Lindsay Thomas off the Topics website. 326 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: You lost my brother Bill as a friend, and I'm 327 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: not happy with you either. Janelle's response was denial. She 328 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 1: denied any connection to Matt or his Topics posts, both 329 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: online and in person. She said she had no idea 330 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 1: who he was, and in fact, as she put it, 331 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: there had been a lot of trash talking about her 332 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: in Mountain View from Billy Jean and Lindsay. She was 333 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:47,119 Speaker 1: the victim. She started messaging more and more people on Facebook, 334 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: posting and talking in real life about how mean Billy Jean, 335 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:57,640 Speaker 1: Lindsay and their friends were. She said they were posting 336 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: mean things on her Facebook wall anonymous, and she constantly 337 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: had to delete the comments, things like you're ugly and 338 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: nobody likes you. Now, I want to take a step 339 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: back here and barring the really egregious language that Matt 340 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,120 Speaker 1: Potter and his fellow Topics trolls were using in their posts, 341 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: this all still sounds fairly straightforward, right. Janelle is jealous 342 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: of Billie Jean, so she goes after her and her 343 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,919 Speaker 1: friends via Matt Potter, who is maybe a friend or 344 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: maybe just Janelle herself using a pseudonym on topics. The 345 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 1: girls retaliate honestly, with much milder language than Matt Potter. 346 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,880 Speaker 1: Maybe Janelle takes that extra seriously because of her auditory disorder, 347 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: but still, basically, it's a tale as old as time. 348 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:56,199 Speaker 1: Jealousy just played out on the Internet, and a lot 349 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 1: of people in town thought it was that simple at 350 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: first too. But the thing is, Janelle said things were escalating, 351 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: seriously escalating. She said it wasn't just that Billy Jean, 352 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,680 Speaker 1: Lindsay and their friends were being quote unquote mean, They 353 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:22,159 Speaker 1: were actually harassing her. She couldn't take the cruelty. It 354 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 1: was unbearable. Not just the mean Facebook posts. She said 355 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: they were calling her and saying horrible things all the time, 356 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 1: driving by her house constantly fast as if to threaten her, 357 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: throwing rocks onto her family's property, even shooting bullets over 358 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,439 Speaker 1: her house. She said she had gotten a rape threat 359 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: from one of the women's male friends. What kinds of 360 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: things were people saying about you. Just I was a 361 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: bad person that was horrible, threatened to get raped. 362 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:55,119 Speaker 2: Listen. 363 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 1: Pretty scary. Yes, that was Janelle speaking to a reporter 364 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: about her allegations. Later on on an episode of the 365 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: ABC program twenty twenty. She was so scared, she said, 366 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 1: she feared for her life. If this Matt Potter was 367 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: defending her against her harasters on an online forum, well 368 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: he might be using strong language, but he wasn't wrong 369 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: about those girls. That was what Janelle said, again and again, 370 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 1: with support from her furious parents, and in Janelle's high pitched, 371 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: innocent voice, with her wide round eyes and gangly awkward frame, well, 372 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 1: it was hard to believe she'd be associated with the 373 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: kind of violent rhetoric Matt Potter was using. She's the 374 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: type you expect to call people sweetie in a message, 375 00:28:50,480 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: not poor. On the other hand, though, Billy, Jean and 376 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: Lindsay were adamant that they weren't doing any of these violent, 377 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 1: threatening things to Janelle. They weren't throwing rocks or shooting guns. 378 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: They weren't even posting on her wall. If someone was 379 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: doing that, it certainly wasn't them. In fact, by twenty eleven, 380 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: Lindsay Thomas was claiming that Janelle was harassing her. Frustrated 381 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: by Janelle's frequent Facebook posts claiming that she was quote 382 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: unquote mean, she finally called the Potter household to say 383 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: Janelle needed to stop this inexplicable Facebook crusade. After that, 384 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: she started getting calls from the Potter household, at first 385 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: just a few, but then ten or fifteen a day. 386 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: Some of them were from Janelle complaining that Lindsay was 387 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: harassing her. Buddy was often on the phone with her 388 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 1: backing up her complaints. Other calls were silent, just the 389 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: sound of breathing on the line. Lindsay could see the 390 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: caller id whatever sounds were coming through the phone, so 391 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: she decided to file a phone harassment suit against Janelle. 392 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: It finally came to trial in November twenty eleven, but 393 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: the judge dismissed the case, arguing that Lindsay could not 394 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Janelle was guilty. So, 395 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: while the whole town knew something or other about this 396 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: feud brewing online and on the phone, a lot of 397 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: people started to find it strangely confusing. They didn't know 398 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 1: what to believee Kurd took Janelle's side, abandoning his old 399 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: friends for a secret lover. Obviously, Janelle's parents took her 400 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: side as well. They were enraged that anyone was attacking 401 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: their innocent, sweet daughter. Tracy and most other Mountain City 402 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: locals sided with Lindsay Thomas, Billy Jean, Bill Payne, and 403 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 1: their friends. They knew their friends wouldn't threaten anyone. Eventually, 404 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: most members of the warring factions had unfriended each other. 405 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: It seemed like there were two versions of reality and 406 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: you just had to pick one, but then there was 407 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 1: only one version. This clip aired on that same episode 408 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: of ABC's twenty twenty Okay, Do You Want a Hitch? 409 00:31:52,600 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: DCPRS two. Around ten am on January thirty first, Roy 410 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 1: and Linda Stevens, former neighbors of the Paines, drove up 411 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: to the paint house. Roy was just planning to run 412 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 1: in pick up his mail, but both Bill and Billy's 413 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: cars were parked outside, so he guessed at least one 414 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: of them might be home. After going through the unlocked 415 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 1: back door, he gave a holler calling for the couple. 416 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 1: There was no answer. Roy ambled toward the bedrooms. He 417 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: hollered again as he went, hoping not to interrupt the 418 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: young parents in an intimate moment, but again there was 419 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 1: no answer. That's when he saw the blood at their 420 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: bedroom door, and then Bill lying on the bed. Roy 421 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 1: ran to him, grabbed Bill by the arms and yelled 422 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 1: build it and move. Roy ran from the room back 423 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 1: to the car, screaming at Linda to call the police. 424 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 1: Something was wrong. Bill was hurt. Roy ran back toward 425 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 1: the house. Linda ran after him. She knew CPR, she 426 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: had to try it. But when she reached Bill, he 427 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: was stiff and cold, his ice still. She reached for 428 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 1: his neck, looking for a pulse. Instead, she felt the 429 00:33:54,280 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: gash his throat had been cut. He was dead. Linda 430 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 1: ran out to the living room to call nine to 431 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:08,920 Speaker 1: one one. Roy heard a noise coming from the second bedroom. 432 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,919 Speaker 1: He ran that way. That's when he saw Billy Jean 433 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 1: lying on the floor, her baby in her arms, and 434 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 1: a blood soaked hole in her head. Her baby was 435 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 1: the one that made the noise. Billy Jean was dead, 436 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: the baby was alive. I mean, that's an image you 437 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: can't get out of your mind, even just hearing it secondhand, 438 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 1: That baby lying in his dead mother's arms for hours. 439 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: You can't even really say anything about it. Just have 440 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:05,880 Speaker 1: to sit with it. Bill Payne and Billy Jean Hayworth 441 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: were dead, killed violently and precisely. Bill was shot once 442 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,919 Speaker 1: in the face, then his throat was sliced. Billy Jean 443 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: was shot once in the head. This was done by 444 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:27,800 Speaker 1: someone experienced with violence. The police's first thought was drugs. 445 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,759 Speaker 1: A lot of violent crime around the area had to 446 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:36,320 Speaker 1: do with drug deals, and Bill and Billy Jean did 447 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 1: occasionally sell a pill or two to their friends alongside 448 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 1: doing some drugs themselves. Especially Bill. Their friends admitted that 449 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,360 Speaker 1: to investigators immediately. They wouldn't have said a word of 450 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 1: it while their friends were alive, but if it was 451 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 1: going to help catch whoever did this, they'd spill it. 452 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: All those are good friends. But police weren't impressed. Selling 453 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 1: a few pills to friends wasn't the kind of dealing 454 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 1: that got you murdered, not like this, not in cold blood. 455 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:21,279 Speaker 1: That's when they started thinking about the internet feud, the 456 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 1: one that everyone in town knew about, the one that 457 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 1: started simply enough but got stranger and by the end 458 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,240 Speaker 1: didn't seem to fully add up or make any sense. 459 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 1: But still, as far as anyone in Mountain City could tell, 460 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 1: one thing was clear. The only people that had a 461 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:55,080 Speaker 1: real problem with Bill and Billy Jean were the Potters. 462 00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 1: On February second, two days after the murder, police had 463 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 1: to the Potter household, less than ten miles from the 464 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: crime scene. They spent an hour there chatting with the family. 465 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,840 Speaker 1: All three of the Potters denied any knowledge of the 466 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,360 Speaker 1: crime beyond what they'd seen on TV the past two days, 467 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,880 Speaker 1: but they were downright talkative about their ongoing feud with 468 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:27,360 Speaker 1: the victims. Janelle said, quote, they had been harassing the 469 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 1: living crap out of her. But when police asked her 470 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:38,680 Speaker 1: why they were harassing her, she said, quote, it came 471 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 1: out to be a jealousy thing. They said I was 472 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,360 Speaker 1: too pretty, that I wasn't from here, so I was 473 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:51,239 Speaker 1: never going to be accepted. Now, the second part her 474 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:56,920 Speaker 1: not being from there, fine, But the first part that 475 00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:02,400 Speaker 1: she's too pretty, that's a really creative explanation for the 476 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 1: whole feud. Getting harassed as a thirty year old woman 477 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 1: because you look too good. It doesn't make a ton 478 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:14,879 Speaker 1: of sense to me. Sure, I think we can all 479 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: agree some jealousy was involved in the whole dynamic, but 480 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:27,239 Speaker 1: not in that direction. Police were similarly skeptical and confused 481 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:32,280 Speaker 1: by the Potter's story of violent harassment over Janelle's good looks, 482 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,319 Speaker 1: but they left more sure than ever. While it was 483 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,360 Speaker 1: astonishing to think that a Facebook feud could have somehow 484 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 1: resulted in murder, the Potters were the only people in 485 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 1: Mountain City that seemed to have a real dislike for 486 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:56,360 Speaker 1: Bill and Billy Jean as in a motive. Plus, Buddy 487 00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:00,399 Speaker 1: Potter was a former marine, not to mention, he had 488 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:05,799 Speaker 1: a personal arsenal in his house that was not uncommon 489 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,319 Speaker 1: in the area or with country people in general, or 490 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,800 Speaker 1: any VFW, but it meant that he had the skill 491 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 1: and the means to commit a precise, professional crime like 492 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 1: the one at the pain household. But Buddy also had 493 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,919 Speaker 1: health issues of his own. He'd been out of work 494 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 1: on disability for years now thanks to a back injury. 495 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,640 Speaker 1: It was unlikely that he'd gone after the two victims alone, 496 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 1: which meant if he committed this crime, he committed it 497 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:43,080 Speaker 1: with an accomplice. When some digging turned up the information 498 00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:48,360 Speaker 1: that Jamie Kurd, Bill Payne's cousin was Janelle's secret boyfriend. 499 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:54,239 Speaker 1: Police knew just where to go next. It seemed that 500 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:58,800 Speaker 1: while this case was odd cracking, it would be simple 501 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:04,399 Speaker 1: for the moment. But if you thought the story up 502 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,640 Speaker 1: to this point was crazy, buckle in, because this is 503 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:19,239 Speaker 1: where it starts to get truly weird. About a week 504 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,600 Speaker 1: after the murders, Jamie was sitting in the police station. 505 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 1: The conversation went on for hours. At first, Jamie insisted 506 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:34,400 Speaker 1: he didn't know anything. Sure there was a conflict between 507 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,799 Speaker 1: the Potters and the victims, but he insisted that this 508 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,760 Speaker 1: had nothing to do with him. That he was friendly 509 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:44,440 Speaker 1: with the Potters, but he wasn't dating Janelle at all anyway. 510 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:49,920 Speaker 1: But then a few hours in the police began to 511 00:40:50,000 --> 00:41:00,240 Speaker 1: wear Jamie down. They said, maybe you are dating Janelle. 512 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,000 Speaker 1: Maybe you were involved in the murders, but just as 513 00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:09,960 Speaker 1: a watchman. Maybe you just slit Bill's throat, but Buddy 514 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:15,680 Speaker 1: Potter already shot him, so you didn't really murder him. 515 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:20,960 Speaker 1: It was just a body. Then maybe you were pressured 516 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 1: into it, scared for your own life. Jamie still didn't 517 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 1: say much, but he started to grunt and nod. He 518 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:40,360 Speaker 1: grunted and nodded enough times that police put together a 519 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:48,200 Speaker 1: statement for him a confession. He signed it. He admitted 520 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:52,240 Speaker 1: that he had done it. He participated in the murder 521 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:56,839 Speaker 1: of his own cousin and his cousin's girlfriend, leaving their 522 00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: baby in her cold arms. He did it with Buddy 523 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 1: Potter for Janelle. This is a huge confession and maybe 524 00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:17,480 Speaker 1: the case could have ended there. An angry father and 525 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:22,120 Speaker 1: boyfriend decided to put an end to Janelle's feud once 526 00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:31,840 Speaker 1: and for all with murder. But people around town knew 527 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:37,160 Speaker 1: Jamie Kurd before he'd got entangled up with the Potters. 528 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:41,680 Speaker 1: People generally liked him. He was a quiet guy, but 529 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:46,319 Speaker 1: hard working. He'd been devoted to his parents. He took 530 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,400 Speaker 1: care of both of them when their health declined and 531 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:54,480 Speaker 1: stayed by their sides until they died. And Bill wasn't 532 00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,440 Speaker 1: just his cousin before he got involved with the Potters. 533 00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:06,120 Speaker 1: He was also one of Jamie's best friends. Mountain City 534 00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:13,960 Speaker 1: didn't know Buddy potterwell, but everyone thought Jamie's involvement was strange, 535 00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,920 Speaker 1: and I do too. You'd think it would take a 536 00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:22,120 Speaker 1: lot to turn a guy like that murderous against his 537 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:26,440 Speaker 1: cousin and friend, even when it came to protecting the 538 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:33,600 Speaker 1: girl he loved Also, it's worth mentioning Jamie Kurr might 539 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:38,320 Speaker 1: be quiet, but he wasn't stupid. Even if he had 540 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:42,440 Speaker 1: felt murderous, would he really be dumb enough to go 541 00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:46,040 Speaker 1: on a killing spree where his girlfriend and her family 542 00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:51,279 Speaker 1: and of course her boyfriend would be the only obvious suspects. 543 00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:58,000 Speaker 1: It just seems well, the whole crime seems like a 544 00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:04,960 Speaker 1: really odd mix of prof nationally executed but bizarrely thought out. 545 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:13,000 Speaker 1: Maybe this case wasn't simple after all. Maybe something was 546 00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:20,480 Speaker 1: missing here. That's why police paid attention when Jamie mumbled 547 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:26,399 Speaker 1: something strange at the end of his interrogation. Here's here. 548 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:35,160 Speaker 1: That's a clip from a TV docu drama based on 549 00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:39,919 Speaker 1: Dennis Brooks book also called Too Pretty to Live. It's 550 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:45,320 Speaker 1: the real take from Jamie's interrogation. And let me repeat 551 00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:53,600 Speaker 1: what he just asked. Is the CIA here here, as 552 00:44:53,640 --> 00:45:00,080 Speaker 1: in at this little police station in Mountain City, Tennessee, 553 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:04,200 Speaker 1: where we are discussing a murder case. Obviously this is 554 00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:08,320 Speaker 1: a really serious case, a double homicide, and I'm still 555 00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:12,319 Speaker 1: thinking about that baby. I could see a world in 556 00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:17,280 Speaker 1: which maybe the FBI might be involved things that involve 557 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,960 Speaker 1: the phone and internet and thus can easily cross state 558 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:28,280 Speaker 1: lines sometimes bring in the FEDS, but the Central Intelligence Agency. 559 00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:35,640 Speaker 1: Why would the CIA be at Jamie Kurd's interrogation. The 560 00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:39,120 Speaker 1: police tried to push Jamie on why someone from the 561 00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:44,560 Speaker 1: CIA might be there. He mumbled something about a Chris 562 00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:52,200 Speaker 1: and then wouldn't say much else. Investigators were stumped, so 563 00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:55,720 Speaker 1: they decided to let it go for now and focus 564 00:45:55,760 --> 00:46:00,680 Speaker 1: on Buddy Potter. Maybe he would provide some clue as 565 00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:04,440 Speaker 1: to what this might all be about, or rather who. 566 00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:11,080 Speaker 1: They just needed Jamie to call Buddy and get him 567 00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:16,000 Speaker 1: to admit some role in this crime, then they could 568 00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:22,360 Speaker 1: arrest him and bring him in for questioning. The ploy worked. 569 00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:25,720 Speaker 1: When Jamie asked Buddy if he got rid of everything 570 00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:30,560 Speaker 1: from Bill's he said uh huh, and that was enough 571 00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:35,920 Speaker 1: for an arrest and an interrogation about what exactly happened 572 00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:42,360 Speaker 1: the morning of January thirty first. But it was arguably 573 00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:46,920 Speaker 1: Barbara Potter who gave investigators a bigger lead into the 574 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:50,719 Speaker 1: whole strange affair. She also spoke briefly on the phone 575 00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:54,880 Speaker 1: call to Jamie, and she said she'd heard Jamie got 576 00:46:54,960 --> 00:47:02,120 Speaker 1: arrested because Chris emailed her and told her Chris again, 577 00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:09,440 Speaker 1: there was no one in Mountain City named Chris. No 578 00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:14,240 Speaker 1: one the Potters knew anyway, and who outside of Mountain 579 00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:22,399 Speaker 1: City would be tracking the town's arrests. The police now 580 00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:26,920 Speaker 1: had two crucial pieces to fit into this whole strange puzzle. 581 00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:53,799 Speaker 1: Chris and the CIA join me next week on the 582 00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:57,520 Speaker 1: Greatest true crime Stories Ever told for the second part 583 00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:01,040 Speaker 1: of our story about Janelle Potter and the murders of 584 00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:04,920 Speaker 1: Bill Payne and Billy Jean Hayworth. It's a wild journey 585 00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:11,080 Speaker 1: into secret emails, secret identities, and secret agencies. We'll also 586 00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,960 Speaker 1: be talking to Dennis Brooks, the prosecutor on the case. 587 00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:16,840 Speaker 1: I'd like to shout out a few key sources that 588 00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:20,000 Speaker 1: made it possible for me to tell this week's story, 589 00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:24,520 Speaker 1: including Brooks's book Too Pretty to Live the Catfishing Murders 590 00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:29,560 Speaker 1: of East Tennessee. As the prosecutor, Brooks had incredible access 591 00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:33,160 Speaker 1: to the case and he shares a lot of great insights, 592 00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:37,319 Speaker 1: so stay tuned for that episode. Other great resources on 593 00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:41,319 Speaker 1: the case include the ABC twenty twenty episode. They have 594 00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:45,160 Speaker 1: the interviews with both Janelle and her mom, Barbara, which 595 00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:49,520 Speaker 1: are fascinating, and of course, the court documents from the trial, 596 00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:53,000 Speaker 1: which we'll get into next week. For more information about 597 00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:56,360 Speaker 1: this case and others we cover on the show, visit 598 00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:02,040 Speaker 1: Diversion Audio dot com. Sign up Diversion's newsletter and be 599 00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:05,120 Speaker 1: among the first to hear about special behind the scenes 600 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:09,319 Speaker 1: features with the hosts and actors from Diversion's podcasts, more 601 00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:12,359 Speaker 1: shows you'll love from Diversion and our partners, and other 602 00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:17,120 Speaker 1: exclusive tidbits you can't get anywhere else. The Greatest True 603 00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:21,160 Speaker 1: Crime Stories Ever Told is a production of Diversion Audio. 604 00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:26,719 Speaker 1: Your host is me Mary Kay mcbraer. This episode was 605 00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:30,799 Speaker 1: written by our editorial director, Nora Battel. Our show is 606 00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:35,319 Speaker 1: produced and directed by Mark Francis. Our development team is 607 00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:39,920 Speaker 1: Emma Dmouth and Jacob Bronstein. Theme music by Tyler Cash. 608 00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:54,480 Speaker 1: Executive producers Jacob Bronstein, Mark Francis, and Scott Waxman. Diversion 609 00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:55,040 Speaker 1: Audio