Speaker 1: Questlove Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. What's going on, y'all?
Speaker 1: This is Questlove and on behalf of the QLs family.
Speaker 1: We're going to celebrate the life, the light, and the
Speaker 1: legacy of the great Wayne Shorter and absolute master of
Speaker 1: his craft, be it with his beginnings with the Art
Speaker 1: Blakey Jazz Messengers, or with his mind blowing work with
Speaker 1: one of the greatest quintets in jazz music. Of course,
Speaker 1: I'm talking about his tenure with Miles Davis. Also with
Speaker 1: the occasional side gig with Donald Byrd or McCoy, Tyner
Speaker 1: or Herbie Hancock, Tony Williams, Lee Morgan, Freddy Hubbard, Carlos Santana,
Speaker 1: Cindy Blackman, Santana, Marcus Miller, and even an opera with
Speaker 1: a great Esperanza Spaulding. And of course I'd be remiss
Speaker 1: if we didn't mention his spell bonding work with one
Speaker 1: of the greatest creatives of musicians ever gathered. Of course,
Speaker 1: I'm talking about weather Report. We got to speak to
Speaker 1: Wayne brother Wayne June of twenty twenty two. He was
Speaker 1: happy to share his work about his journey as a musician,
Speaker 1: as a creative, as a Buddhist and as a human being.
Speaker 1: We just want to offer condulsis to his family, to
Speaker 1: his friends and his loved ones, and we celebrate his
Speaker 1: life's work. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to another
Speaker 1: episode of Quest Love Supreme. Your host question, Love, Oh,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Are you know? Are recently awarded Webby Award
Speaker 1: winning Quest Loves three times. It's the third one I
Speaker 1: have yet. I have yet to see those trophies, but
Speaker 1: I trust that we've won those dings. So in the
Speaker 1: record books, do you know who they're sending those two
Speaker 1: like you at all? I don't know, somebody in the sky.
Speaker 1: I have no idea, but there are a lot of
Speaker 1: emails being sent, So there's there's uh yeah, I was
Speaker 1: gonna say, uh, you know somewhere out there, Uh they're
Speaker 1: they're living their dream as Quest Love Supreme Award winners.
Speaker 1: But you know that's neither here nor there, you know,
Speaker 1: because besides getting actual statues and accolades, I'll say that
Speaker 1: the joy of doing this podcast is, you know, it's
Speaker 1: just every episode we just get educated legend after legend
Speaker 1: after legend, and today is absolutely positively no exception to
Speaker 1: that rule. Simply put today, Our Guests is probably one
Speaker 1: of the greatest musicians, one of the greatest composers, one
Speaker 1: of the greatest band leaders, probably one of the greatest improvisers.
Speaker 1: I mean, when you really talk about the genre of
Speaker 1: a free jazz and fusion or whatever you want to
Speaker 1: call it, you know, our Our Guests is beyond pioneer.
Speaker 1: Like see him Moore as as a painter, as an
Speaker 1: artist who probably I'll say that his greatest weapon is
Speaker 1: just his ability to create synesthesia and us with the
Speaker 1: colors that he paints, with his with his compositions and
Speaker 1: with his uh with his actual playing. Probably one of
Speaker 1: the greatest time travels of music. I mean every ever
Speaker 1: play with everybody, every every project of his story career,
Speaker 1: from being a member of the legendary Art Blakey Jazz Messengers,
Speaker 1: you know, playing with like Lee Morgan, Bobby Timmans, Baby
Speaker 1: parrott Um, one of the i mean one of the
Speaker 1: prime architects of the greatest quintets and the history jazz
Speaker 1: with with Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter and Tony Williams,
Speaker 1: with what we call the second great quintet Um, even
Speaker 1: down to forming weather Report with Josell and playing with
Speaker 1: like Jacob Stores and Alfonso Johnson and Victor Bailey and
Speaker 1: all these greats um even to his own work. If
Speaker 1: if if I do this intro, the show will be
Speaker 1: over before we even get to question. Ladies and gentlemen,
Speaker 1: please welcome and give it, give us the honor of
Speaker 1: welcoming one of the greatest architects in music, not the
Speaker 1: one and the only Wayne Short. Thank you very much
Speaker 1: for doing me. Hello, Hello, Hello, everybody. Thank you that introduction. Thanks,
Speaker 1: But really it really belongs to all of the cats.
Speaker 1: I call them the cats, and I even called the
Speaker 1: guys from the classical area they were cats and didn't
Speaker 1: know it. Yeah. So right now, where are you speaking
Speaker 1: to us from? Where are you at right now currently? Well,
Speaker 1: I'm right here in California, Los Angeles. That's where you
Speaker 1: live right now, at home? Yeah, okay, how long has
Speaker 1: that been your home out there? Well, I've been here
Speaker 1: since nineteen seventy two, seventy one, seventy two, but seven
Speaker 1: years in Florida, then moved back to California. Yeah. Now,
Speaker 1: normally you know, when I when I do this show
Speaker 1: and try to go through the genealogy, but you know,
Speaker 1: you have seven decades of creativity under your belt, so
Speaker 1: we wouldn't even scratch the surface. So I kind of
Speaker 1: want to just do sort of random questioning. Now you
Speaker 1: mentioned California, and there's a myth I would like you
Speaker 1: to settle with me. You know, I come from the
Speaker 1: world of hip hop, and you know hip hop has
Speaker 1: been very territorial. You know, the type of hip hop
Speaker 1: that comes from New York is different than that of
Speaker 1: down South, that's different than that of the West Coast.
Speaker 1: But can you is there any theory on why you
Speaker 1: believe or I've always felt that California has never truly
Speaker 1: gotten its respect in terms of of jazz music, Like
Speaker 1: I've always heard that, you know, no self respecting musician
Speaker 1: would ever you know, stay in California like you, you
Speaker 1: would stay in New York, where the heart of creativity is.
Speaker 1: But what was it about California that drew you to it?
Speaker 1: And did you ever adhere to jazz snobs that you know,
Speaker 1: the jazz police whatever that always looked down on California
Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah, I know what you mean. Well, one
Speaker 1: of the first thing where I moved to California was
Speaker 1: a medical reason. I had a daughter who was acquired
Speaker 1: brain damage when she was born, and then the four
Speaker 1: seasons on the East Coast. The doctor says she would
Speaker 1: get colds from some of the drafts and some of
Speaker 1: the departments, you know, like with windows and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: and then she would be have seizures. Sometimes she would
Speaker 1: have fifteen seizures in a day. And they said, you
Speaker 1: have to be to go to a warm climate, like
Speaker 1: with two major climates summer in spring, or go to
Speaker 1: California or something like that. So that's we moved from
Speaker 1: New York to California. And while we were moving, we
Speaker 1: found out people were moving too, but they didn't have
Speaker 1: medical reasons, but they like Herbie Hancocks, he moved just
Speaker 1: before I did Chick Korea Joe's Avenue, and A, yeah,
Speaker 1: they were, And I was thinking they were moving to
Speaker 1: where jazz was needed in a sense, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: And I got that by observing Charlie Parker when he
Speaker 1: was out here and he was hede beating and relaxing
Speaker 1: it in California and playing some of the places and
Speaker 1: picking up other the West Coast musicians to play with him,
Speaker 1: and uh, I saw him pictures of him rehearsing with
Speaker 1: Leanna Tristano, Lee Konitz and the guys who you know
Speaker 1: out here, the Jet Baker and uh but Johnnie Parker,
Speaker 1: he would play bar mits uh anywhere see with Charlie Barker.
Speaker 1: I'm saying where you were didn't matter. He was so
Speaker 1: I mean the movie where he was singing Mario Orlansis
Speaker 1: being my Love, right, Yeah, Bars Whittaker was actually acting
Speaker 1: and singing, you know. And Uh. While I'm mentioning this,
Speaker 1: I like to mention a musician who passed away. I
Speaker 1: didn't know he had passed away. His name was Bernard, right,
Speaker 1: yet he was kind of wild and everything. I didn't
Speaker 1: I didn't realize he came out of the church when
Speaker 1: he was young. But he was one of the guys
Speaker 1: who played uh, synthesizer any way he wanted to and piano.
Speaker 1: It didn't matter where he was. I'm sticking on this
Speaker 1: where you are location thing. And we have a little
Speaker 1: thing we say and talk about in the in Buddhism,
Speaker 1: when you're pack your suitcase, you're gonna move somewhere where
Speaker 1: you think you you better off. There's a little guy
Speaker 1: sitting on the suitcase named Karma talking about what took
Speaker 1: you so long, I'm going with you, so you're gonna
Speaker 1: take your environment with you. And never giving up is
Speaker 1: my model. Never give up and don't let where you
Speaker 1: are Foolia, that's it, okay. You you mentioned um being
Speaker 1: a practicing Buddhist. You know, one of the first people
Speaker 1: that I've ever heard mentioning that they were practicing Buddhists
Speaker 1: was Herbie Hancock. Is it safe to assume that both
Speaker 1: of you discovered this at the same time or were
Speaker 1: you too a part of each other's process and studying Buddhism,
Speaker 1: because you know, even back I remember interviews as early
Speaker 1: as like nineteen seventy one of him speaking of his
Speaker 1: Buddhist practice. When did you become a Buddhist? Well, actually
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three I took up the mantle so to
Speaker 1: speak to Japan without you know, and my wife at
Speaker 1: the time, Anna Maria, she's the one who passed away
Speaker 1: on t wa uh. She was nailing something on the
Speaker 1: wall one month one morning in California in our first house.
Speaker 1: She's nailing something to the wall, and I said, what
Speaker 1: you're doing? Three o'clock in the morning, And she said,
Speaker 1: I just came from Herbie's house this afternoon, and he
Speaker 1: was telling me about this uh practice of Buddhism. And
Speaker 1: what we learned from Herbie was he learned it from
Speaker 1: Buster Williams. He learned about it from Buster Williams. But
Speaker 1: the will and said he learned about it from his wife,
Speaker 1: Ronnie Vernica Ronica Williams, when when he was about fresh
Speaker 1: out of high school. And uh so, Herbie said, why
Speaker 1: don't you check it out for your daughter's sake, because
Speaker 1: our daughter was born with these seizures and all that.
Speaker 1: So we thought maybe we would check out the philosophy
Speaker 1: and see how it connects with our daughter. Our daughter
Speaker 1: did pass away at age fifteen of a grandma seizure
Speaker 1: here in California, But the wise practitioners of Buddhism say
Speaker 1: she came with brain damage. But she completed her mission,
Speaker 1: and our mission was to expose her parents to the
Speaker 1: ultimate law of life, the ultimate law of of their life,
Speaker 1: that that you are eternal and stuff like that. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of the same things. But she came to
Speaker 1: wake us up, even though she didn't she only had
Speaker 1: a few words, a few words to speak and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. But her life was not in vain. So
Speaker 1: we're looking at a lot of other people who who
Speaker 1: kind of think something is in vain. There's no used
Speaker 1: to do this. I'm gonna give up on that. I got.
Speaker 1: I got a bunch of shirts out here it says
Speaker 1: never give up on the shirt, so that that's uh,
Speaker 1: it's not so much trying to be perfect and be
Speaker 1: a religious person. In fact, some of us who practice
Speaker 1: this Buddhism get wilder. Oh hey, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: or anything where the report comes next. So, of course,
Speaker 1: because the thing is, especially with the history of of
Speaker 1: our people in this country with black people. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: always wondered, you know, how hard of a decision was
Speaker 1: that to me, you know, because I think that black
Speaker 1: people were always trained to, you know, like we must
Speaker 1: only follow Christianity and any other philosophy. Like Maurice White
Speaker 1: would tell me that when he was sort of practicing
Speaker 1: his spirituality that it was really controversial with everyday blacks
Speaker 1: because it wasn't under the trope of like God, Jesus
Speaker 1: and Christianity. But for you to do that so early,
Speaker 1: especially now that we're more open to I guess following
Speaker 1: our hearts and following traditions and ways whatnot. You know,
Speaker 1: how was was this easy for the people around you,
Speaker 1: your family members or your friends or whatever like to
Speaker 1: except where you were going, or did they just look
Speaker 1: at you like an alien Like I was forty or
Speaker 1: forty one, where when I thought, you know, I think,
Speaker 1: I said, I got it together. I know, you know,
Speaker 1: I can, I can take care of myself. It's there's
Speaker 1: a point where some of us think we know everything.
Speaker 1: We can end the living in it's coming our way.
Speaker 1: And when I was forty, I stopped to think about
Speaker 1: my daughter's seizures, how she came into the world with
Speaker 1: the brain damage and all that, and I was I
Speaker 1: started thinking about this. I said, wait a minute, there
Speaker 1: is some stuff I don't know about. So I started
Speaker 1: listening to what some of the people I knew. Of course,
Speaker 1: it was her being Buster Williams, my wife at the time,
Speaker 1: Anna Maria. She started working on this listening to philosophy
Speaker 1: before I did. And I when I went on a
Speaker 1: tour in nineteen seventy three, July three to Japan, and
Speaker 1: when we all left with what report we all left,
Speaker 1: and when stopped in Hawaii, I stopped in Hawaii behind them,
Speaker 1: took another plate and got in a small hotel by
Speaker 1: myself because I was actually handling alcohol. So I want
Speaker 1: to be myself. When we had two days off before
Speaker 1: we did a concert in Hawaii and just get ripped.
Speaker 1: I not just getting ripped, the sloppy and everything. I've
Speaker 1: got me a new suit, pantamat suit, and I walk
Speaker 1: around acting like I can handle everything. And I went
Speaker 1: from nightclub to nightclub, sitting at the bar talking philosophy
Speaker 1: from Jian philosophy with people and all that. And they
Speaker 1: told me, once you start to do this practice as
Speaker 1: a Buddhism Buddhist, all of us jumps that you have
Speaker 1: in you was gonna come out and say it's it's
Speaker 1: like a water hose and garden water hose that hasn't
Speaker 1: been used in a long time. And when you plush
Speaker 1: it with this philosophy, the first thing that comes up,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of leaves and rusts and everything like
Speaker 1: that out of your life. And I was saying, whoa
Speaker 1: I thought I was? You know? So I was. They
Speaker 1: even had a what do you call a missing person
Speaker 1: call or me in Hawaii couldn't find until it was
Speaker 1: time to play the gig, and I went. I got
Speaker 1: myself together and then joined the band and they said,
Speaker 1: you scared us to death. Man with so uh that
Speaker 1: I had gone to a temple in Japan and what
Speaker 1: do you call it? Received something called I don't want
Speaker 1: to see me the words, but Gujakai. Tina Turner has
Speaker 1: a book out on this stuff. She has a whole
Speaker 1: explanation of stuff. And I like that. And I received it.
Speaker 1: And the temple it's only a little baby and myself
Speaker 1: and the baby's mother and the temple, and we received something,
Speaker 1: and we said we're gonna practice this practice. So anyway,
Speaker 1: the thing about playing different once you start doing stuff
Speaker 1: like this a different. What Herbie said was he heard
Speaker 1: Buster Williams take a bass solo one night. Maybe you
Speaker 1: heard about this. I mean, this is classic. He took
Speaker 1: a bass solo. They were playing at the Penthouse in
Speaker 1: the Seattle Can't Panhouse Niper when when Buster finished, the
Speaker 1: applause wouldn't stop. That it was one of the longest
Speaker 1: applause the Herbie ever heard. And they got an the
Speaker 1: dressed room. He said, Buster, what you've been doing? Explained
Speaker 1: to him a little bit about what he's doing. So Herby,
Speaker 1: I want to try what's going on. And that was
Speaker 1: that was when he got what he called that hit,
Speaker 1: that dead, that dead right. Okay, okay, okay, okay, that's
Speaker 1: how changed his sound. Okay, well, actually people, he didn't
Speaker 1: want people to think, when you start practicing a philosophy,
Speaker 1: you to get hit records. No, but but Herbie got
Speaker 1: a hit before the water. Another man hit the one
Speaker 1: dude a million. But I always thought that Herbie had
Speaker 1: a lucky star over his head ever since I met
Speaker 1: him in nineteen sixty three. He's one of those guys
Speaker 1: in school. There's another guy with the school with you,
Speaker 1: like Herbie basic where he's a diplomat now. Anyways, anyway,
Speaker 1: just like Herbye, they had this lucky star over the
Speaker 1: head all their lives. I said, Man, nothing nothing funny
Speaker 1: ever happened to them. Good. But I learned quickly you
Speaker 1: can't count your blessing by watching your neighbor's treasure. Truth
Speaker 1: you call it. I took to myself, shut up and
Speaker 1: be cool, and I stopped. I stopped talking. I went
Speaker 1: to the meeting. We had meetings at our house, had
Speaker 1: a lot of meetings at our house. People and a
Speaker 1: lot of name dropping people who came to the meetings,
Speaker 1: you know, people who wanted to be movie stars and
Speaker 1: all that wanted to get this, but uh, you'd be
Speaker 1: surprised the names are. You know, I'm not gonna say
Speaker 1: the names, but if everything every now and then I
Speaker 1: would say a name of a person who came to
Speaker 1: our house to a meeting, and somebody would say, oh,
Speaker 1: your name dropping, Now your name dropped. But I cut
Speaker 1: them off and say, no, I'm not name dropping, I'm
Speaker 1: named lifting. One question I had for you, mister Shorter,
Speaker 1: how did you get the nickname mister Gone? Oh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was in the Brazil and we all had We
Speaker 1: all went to Brazil to do festival there, and then
Speaker 1: the band came back to the United States early to
Speaker 1: do this record. I ate another month in Brazil while
Speaker 1: they were making a record, and they were making some music.
Speaker 1: They were the name they name did it after me? It? Joe? Come,
Speaker 1: let's call this one, mister Gone. I really liked Joe's
Speaker 1: piece Young and Fine on that on that album. Time. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I briefly met you once, um at a festival. I
Speaker 1: mean this is like twenty years ago or twenty maybe
Speaker 1: twenty five years ago, and just briefly talking. And I
Speaker 1: believe you told me that you didn't even start your
Speaker 1: craft and playing uh, clarinet and saxophone until you were
Speaker 1: like well into your teens, so you know, and I
Speaker 1: really did because we were in passing. I always wanted
Speaker 1: to ask you. So you're telling me that I would
Speaker 1: have thought that you would have came out the room,
Speaker 1: you know, with with with with the accent hands. How
Speaker 1: did how did you discover your talents at such kind
Speaker 1: of a late stage in your life? Well, actually, I
Speaker 1: used to play hookie from when I started high school.
Speaker 1: I played hookie go to the movies, walk and walk
Speaker 1: past to school and going down to downtown to movie
Speaker 1: theater and I used to go see uh, like two
Speaker 1: movies and the stage show. And the stage show was
Speaker 1: at the theater is called the Adams Theater. And there
Speaker 1: was Dizzy Lesbi you don't know a Jacket and his
Speaker 1: brother Russell Jacket, and the thing called the Jazz at
Speaker 1: the Philharmonics. I'm I'm I'm watching this stuff listening. I
Speaker 1: was about fifteen then, and there's a music store right
Speaker 1: around the corner from the high school. I used to
Speaker 1: walk by this music store and look in the window.
Speaker 1: I was majoring in art and I found myself cutting
Speaker 1: classes just go looking at music, look at the instruments
Speaker 1: in the music store. Then I got me uh for
Speaker 1: a dollar something dollars fifty A little thing looks like
Speaker 1: a submarine called a tonette, a plastic It's like a
Speaker 1: plastic flute at six holes. I got it, and I
Speaker 1: used to walk around the neighborhood blowing on this thing,
Speaker 1: like do do do do? Do? Do do do? And
Speaker 1: my mother said, whenever she wanted to get me to
Speaker 1: come into a dinner, she oh, she had just opened
Speaker 1: the window, and here where I was, here where I
Speaker 1: was at, But I know where you're at. So then
Speaker 1: I started fingering this thing. No instructions. I just saw
Speaker 1: do do do you know? Playing with it? And when
Speaker 1: I went to see the stage shows, I hear them playing,
Speaker 1: Um they did they did? Did they? And I mashed
Speaker 1: the holes on this little it looks like a submarine.
Speaker 1: I mashed the DoD do do? I try to mash
Speaker 1: what I heard? And then I looked in the window
Speaker 1: real close one time, and there's this clarinet sitting up
Speaker 1: there among the other instruments are vertical. And my grandmother
Speaker 1: and my mother got the money together to get this
Speaker 1: cl clarinet, which cost ninety dollars. It was a used
Speaker 1: clarinet in the name. When I said somebody's name Elizabeth
Speaker 1: new Jersey on each part of the clarinet, they get
Speaker 1: taken apart and I got that class. I still have it,
Speaker 1: You still have it? Yeah? WHOA and I and I
Speaker 1: and I went into the music store. The guy who
Speaker 1: rand the music store was also he ran the pit
Speaker 1: man af they had him said, and when they had
Speaker 1: the shows, his name was Jack Arnold Press and here
Speaker 1: to take me to the back room, and h started
Speaker 1: to clown that lessons lord, learning to read notes, counting
Speaker 1: and all that cat pat in your foot and all
Speaker 1: you know, stuff like that. I did that one year
Speaker 1: with him. Then he got me a tenor saxophone too,
Speaker 1: because he said, you make more money you played clarinet
Speaker 1: and tenner the music union again. So I got to
Speaker 1: mess around with these things. But I you to talk
Speaker 1: playing at home about six hours a day, not every day,
Speaker 1: but six hours of the school days. I stand up
Speaker 1: in the room and just I turned around in the
Speaker 1: six hours going by him, so working on scales stuff
Speaker 1: like that. Uh. Then I listened, So what was out
Speaker 1: there listening to Charlie Parker all the guys are blanky
Speaker 1: colonious monk what they were doing. And then I got
Speaker 1: I went to the library and took took out records
Speaker 1: a classical and uh, I got one of the discal
Speaker 1: less h Montaka And also I got Stravinsky's The Writer's Springing. Yeah, yeah, Yo,
Speaker 1: that explains everything. The fact that you would shed the
Speaker 1: wrights the spring explains everything all right to our listeners
Speaker 1: out there, um real quick. Stravinsky's compositions used to cause riots. Ye,
Speaker 1: Stravinsky was the edim of his days. Stravinsky was the
Speaker 1: bomb squad public enemy of his day. Like he would
Speaker 1: make the audience angry with clashing notes, and you know,
Speaker 1: he was the free jazz of the classical era. And
Speaker 1: when he created Writes a Spring, I mean just name
Speaker 1: all the controversial records that you can think of from
Speaker 1: Miles Is on the Corner to it takes a nation
Speaker 1: of millions of olders back to even when like you know,
Speaker 1: Radiohead sort of turned their kid back on rock with
Speaker 1: you know, with kid like all these experiments and it
Speaker 1: made the audience angry. But you know this, that was
Speaker 1: like one of the first examples of opening a portal
Speaker 1: of creativity where suddenly you didn't follow the rules of music.
Speaker 1: You had to just you know, you followed your heart,
Speaker 1: and so you started that. The nineteen oh nine they
Speaker 1: were in Paris when it first did the writer spring
Speaker 1: publicly and it's a musician. I think it's a masto something.
Speaker 1: They weren't sitting next to another composer and when the
Speaker 1: writer spring started, he was annoying. He said, why this
Speaker 1: stunsky started with the bassoon where up high? It's an
Speaker 1: ugly sound or something like that, and the other guy said,
Speaker 1: he quiet, let's let's see what he's doing. And every
Speaker 1: time I played Acus, I said, started with something that
Speaker 1: would irritate people. I heard that somebody got killed in that. Uh. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's it was like the first mosh pit or the
Speaker 1: first first act of violence out of music. Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: I always bring that up when people talk about like
Speaker 1: violence in hip hop, and I'm like, you know, we
Speaker 1: learned about classical music. I think started a long time ago. Listen,
Speaker 1: let me let me ask you, and I'm skipping on
Speaker 1: a little of the place, but since you kind of
Speaker 1: barret it up, I gotta ask you. At the time,
Speaker 1: did you feel like Miles was going through his own
Speaker 1: Stravinsky phase in terms of like where he was taking music,
Speaker 1: you know, at the time when Miles was really stretching out,
Speaker 1: and you know, I kind of feel like that phase
Speaker 1: started with the last jazz record that you guys made,
Speaker 1: which was the neffertd album. Can you just explain one thing,
Speaker 1: what was the philosophy behind the title track Neffertdi, in
Speaker 1: which you norm Miles took a solo and you let
Speaker 1: Tony Williams and Ron Carter just run rampant with experiments
Speaker 1: like that was just unheard of at the time, Like
Speaker 1: or were you guys just like roll the tape, you know, TiO,
Speaker 1: start the tape and just start going, Like what was
Speaker 1: the philosophy behind that particular that particular session which you
Speaker 1: guys did a seven minute jazz soul song with no
Speaker 1: solos in it and just let the rhythm section go crazy.
Speaker 1: I feel like he had something. I knew he was
Speaker 1: getting a prop I knew he was. I love it.
Speaker 1: Let's go. You see this lefort you're holding up the
Speaker 1: statue and effort. I made this when you I was
Speaker 1: fifteen years old. Wow, And I got it from the
Speaker 1: school before they got it, got a hold of it themselves.
Speaker 1: You know I made this. No, this is a a
Speaker 1: replica of the one that they have in the Bell
Speaker 1: in the museum. Yeah. I got it from the newspaper
Speaker 1: and I toughted it even clay and plaster. And this
Speaker 1: is it from nineteen fifty one, nineteen fifty, from nineteen
Speaker 1: fifty to now. Yea, it is hitting talents. That's beautiful.
Speaker 1: Our listeners out there, mister short is we're on zoom.
Speaker 1: Of course he's holding up a white sculpture of nupported
Speaker 1: and you did this at fifteen. Oh yeah, this is
Speaker 1: on YouTube and people are going to see that sculpture.
Speaker 1: So that's good. I didn't I didn't know how heavy
Speaker 1: the thing is heavy. That is beautiful. What caused you
Speaker 1: guys to do the repetition thing with no solos? Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: well Miles when we started playing it, Miles, so it
Speaker 1: was indicating with his body movement. He keept doing like
Speaker 1: again again again, so we go do the melody again.
Speaker 1: He kept going and then Tony Williams started doing like
Speaker 1: the drum thing behind him. Don't need any solos. I
Speaker 1: don't need the solo because when we played it in
Speaker 1: person later when Chip Korea was a pianist chick would
Speaker 1: play it's solow here and there on it. But it
Speaker 1: was he said, he said that there's nothing can match
Speaker 1: the melody. Yeah, what we heard. I went to Sweden
Speaker 1: and got one of those awards in Sweden m hm.
Speaker 1: And they meet an arrangement of Netid, which is the
Speaker 1: baddest arrangement I've heard so far. With the orchestra there.
Speaker 1: They man, they tore it up and they didn't they
Speaker 1: didn't solo. They just did the melody and and put
Speaker 1: clothes on it, put a costume on it. That was
Speaker 1: like like only the Swedish, the Europeans and they're artistic,
Speaker 1: you know. They were saying we understand. It was saying
Speaker 1: we understand where where you want to go and where
Speaker 1: you could go? How about this? So with Miles, it
Speaker 1: was after Neffer td that Miles did the bitches brew
Speaker 1: m It's like he he also he also wanted to
Speaker 1: start writing music where he would get get the publishing,
Speaker 1: you know, royalties from publishing songwriting and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: and that that when he got from Betty I'm a
Speaker 1: down Home Girl. That's that was hers her lyrics and everything.
Speaker 1: He made the disse a melody out of stuff like
Speaker 1: that place, and uh, that's when he crossed over into
Speaker 1: concert halls, from the nightclubs into concert halls and his
Speaker 1: his The funny thing he said, one of the first
Speaker 1: things he did when he crossed over was a dull
Speaker 1: Grahams the ice House or someplace in California in the
Speaker 1: dressing room. We only played like a half hour, and
Speaker 1: he got good money for it. So what it was
Speaker 1: we were used to playing two hours or an hour,
Speaker 1: and this is the first time we played thirty minutes.
Speaker 1: And the mouse was looking at this the paycheck that
Speaker 1: he got from the frontal organization. We were all sitting
Speaker 1: around and we didn't look at it ourselves, but moles
Speaker 1: are looking at the paycheck. He said, damn, thirty minutes.
Speaker 1: He looked at us and he said, I feel like
Speaker 1: the seats. But that's when he started, you know, we talked.
Speaker 1: He went to Europe. He started getting the conscious in
Speaker 1: Europe and stuff like that, and that's when he met
Speaker 1: Sesame Tyson. But that that's that part. But before Miles died,
Speaker 1: we all met in Switzerland. M I need to help
Speaker 1: the thing with Quincy Jones and all that stuff. Wallace
Speaker 1: running was playing Miles as parts on the trumpet and
Speaker 1: all that, and the Moles got me and Herbie together
Speaker 1: and said what he said, what would it be like
Speaker 1: if we got together again? And we said when you
Speaker 1: were talking about yeah, we said, we said, ruh ruh.
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, you're trying to tell me, because the
Speaker 1: thing was I asked Quincy, like, how did you get
Speaker 1: Miles to even agree to even go anywhere close to
Speaker 1: that type of jazz, which you know he had he
Speaker 1: had somehow avoided, you know, for least in that traditional
Speaker 1: sense of playing jazz. And you're telling me that, Miles Davis,
Speaker 1: you and Herbie actually spoke of wanting something together again.
Speaker 1: Miles was thinking about what would we sound like after
Speaker 1: weather Report and after Hunter and after all that. But
Speaker 1: Herbie's been to and I've been what what what kind
Speaker 1: of stuff could we uh conjure up? That's what everybody
Speaker 1: want to know. Yeah, yeah, So where he went to
Speaker 1: the thing called dud Bob with an easymobile, you know,
Speaker 1: and then he got two guys and Marcus Miller and
Speaker 1: then they got those guys together, you know, guitar players
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. But it's his body. His body
Speaker 1: kind of dictated dictated where he was going to go musically,
Speaker 1: and he would have to rest while playing. Okay, and
Speaker 1: uh to start a whole new something. You know, it's
Speaker 1: been a lot of work, but we wasn't supposed to
Speaker 1: get together again. Really, but that thought was like like uh,
Speaker 1: lighting and lighting a match in a dark tunnel. I
Speaker 1: have a question about Miles um. Has he offered any
Speaker 1: sort of opinion on your work with Weather Report during
Speaker 1: that period. Yeah, he did say that was the only
Speaker 1: thing happening, he wrote, He wrote in a newspaper. He said,
Speaker 1: the only thing that was happening out there was Weather Report,
Speaker 1: Oh oh wow. And he mentioned some pianos like happening
Speaker 1: as a pianist is Herbie Check, a couple of other
Speaker 1: pianists that you know, uh, band leaders and everything. That's
Speaker 1: the only thing happening. When he was going for the
Speaker 1: six years, and he'd come to see us at the
Speaker 1: Theater in New York, hm, and people didn't know who
Speaker 1: he was. He come backstage, they didn't know who he was,
Speaker 1: and he said, let Miles in man. Really Yeah, oh wow,
Speaker 1: that's crazy of your your first round of solo work
Speaker 1: like the like the Schizophrenia album, The Night dreamer Alsie
Speaker 1: and I like, my favorite is Juju. But can you
Speaker 1: talk about what the creative process was in doing your
Speaker 1: solo work, because I would imagine that if you were
Speaker 1: in Miles's band, like I would imagine that, I know
Speaker 1: some band leaders that were frowned doing what they were
Speaker 1: called moonlighting, like doing your own solo works. I always
Speaker 1: wanted to know how Myles felt about like you and Herbie,
Speaker 1: especially like doing your own solo work on the side
Speaker 1: at Blue Note while still being in in this this quintet,
Speaker 1: you guys were so tight as a unit. How often
Speaker 1: would you guys practice as a band during that period?
Speaker 1: I mean as a Miles Davis band or our own band? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean just I guess I'm asking how are you
Speaker 1: able to you know, maximize creativity what Miles Davis and
Speaker 1: also subsequently do your own solo stuff on the side.
Speaker 1: I think where Miles he welcomed that that it would
Speaker 1: shine on him, you know it would Uh we do
Speaker 1: our own publicity, so to speak, which bounced off on
Speaker 1: the Miles Davis quintet was like, Uh, we didn't have
Speaker 1: to call Miles to ask what a retainer while we
Speaker 1: were off when he's like in a hospital or something
Speaker 1: like that. We were like self kind of self sufficient
Speaker 1: in that way. A lot of people wanted to play
Speaker 1: with the Miles Davids rhythm section, you know, they wanted
Speaker 1: to make records with the Miles Davis rhythm section. But
Speaker 1: the guys were like Furby and then then there's McCoy.
Speaker 1: You had another way. You had the top guys doing
Speaker 1: things together and it made it a little difficult for
Speaker 1: anyone to crash that to or tear it down or
Speaker 1: uh speak against it, you know is wow, they got
Speaker 1: open June even art break. He played on one of
Speaker 1: my records. My first records played the drunk. So there
Speaker 1: was that given takes respect built in. But then later
Speaker 1: when people start counting counting the beans, that the royalties
Speaker 1: what sold and what didn't sell, and that there was
Speaker 1: an effort I think on the record company's part to
Speaker 1: um break up any kind of alliance that we formed
Speaker 1: that they couldn't get their hands on. They were discouraging
Speaker 1: the build up of like a u'd and Duke allingas
Speaker 1: band for life, but people starting a band from Duke
Speaker 1: Ellingons band or starting their own band from count Bass
Speaker 1: Yeah Erskine Hawkins and you know all that they were
Speaker 1: together almost like a life sentence. You know, they're the
Speaker 1: only ones who graduated in a sense, would be like
Speaker 1: if you went into movies like Tap Dancers or the Vocalist. Yeah,
Speaker 1: have you seen that Gers documentary? No? Yes, yes, but
Speaker 1: she became the band leader. M Yeah. I was just
Speaker 1: going to ask you because I've seen you in a
Speaker 1: lot recently and especially Lee Morgan and Miles, and I
Speaker 1: was wondering, as an architect, how do you feel in
Speaker 1: this moment of documenting all its history and do you
Speaker 1: feel like they're getting it right? They're they're doing part
Speaker 1: and parcel put it that way. Okay, what would you like?
Speaker 1: There's another one coming out on myself a second, your
Speaker 1: second documentary about about you. Right, it's a second. No,
Speaker 1: this is no, this is a full one. Okay, come
Speaker 1: out soon and this is uh I can say what
Speaker 1: is the title rep thus far? The title is uh
Speaker 1: Wayne Shorter, zero Gravity. I'd be remiss if I didn't
Speaker 1: speak of your your work with the Jazz Messengers. I
Speaker 1: just want to know in general, is the Jazz Messengers
Speaker 1: like your first actual like professional big gig, just in
Speaker 1: terms of you being with with the unit Yeah, yeah, messengers.
Speaker 1: How do I know you're from You were from Newark?
Speaker 1: I know that. You know, America was in such a
Speaker 1: chaotic sort of place, especially for black people. What was
Speaker 1: it like as as a person that was able to
Speaker 1: leave America and start touring the world and going overseas
Speaker 1: and all those things to see what effect did that
Speaker 1: have on you? Well? Actually I was working with Maynard
Speaker 1: Ferginson's band, you know, Maynard focused in the Big Band
Speaker 1: about three weeks and one time we were working at
Speaker 1: Birdland and the waiter said, there's a telephone call from
Speaker 1: Wayne Alive Blake. He's on the phone, said. Lee Morgan
Speaker 1: had come to New York, New Jersey and played a
Speaker 1: session with John Coltrane, and as on midnight, the Lee
Speaker 1: called my house. He heard about me. He called my
Speaker 1: house for I'd like to go and play with them
Speaker 1: in the last number, still playing a night in Tunisia
Speaker 1: at a nightclub in New York, and I went, got
Speaker 1: my stuff together and played on the Last Number with
Speaker 1: Lee Morgan and John Coltrane. Yeah, there was a jam
Speaker 1: session and Lee had been going around to the jam
Speaker 1: sessions listening to people, and we worked in New York
Speaker 1: with Dizzy get Leslie's big band with the drummer Charlie
Speaker 1: Person from Nook. You know, I was at the place
Speaker 1: called sugar Hill, by the way, that's the place I
Speaker 1: saw Billie Holiday before I went in the army. He
Speaker 1: was at sugar Hill and Nook too much, right, everybody? Yeah,
Speaker 1: the one this month. They was all in there. And anyway,
Speaker 1: when I got out of the army, that's when Lee
Speaker 1: called me and said, I'm playing with John Coltrane and
Speaker 1: Nook at midnight. We're gonna play one more number. Can
Speaker 1: you come? I heard about you, so I went and played.
Speaker 1: Then when I got with men Our Fergus, this band,
Speaker 1: we were playing in Canada at a race track, the
Speaker 1: Canadian Exposition we call it, and doing the break I'm
Speaker 1: a Jamal and Sarah Van. They were doing a break head.
Speaker 1: Comes Lee Morgan running across the red the race track.
Speaker 1: He came up to me. I'm sitting here in the audience. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you want to be with the Messengers. You want to
Speaker 1: be with the Messengers. I said, yeah, to come with
Speaker 1: me and I went to a tenth. That's all right, Blake,
Speaker 1: you said, man and I said, he said, Lee Morgan
Speaker 1: is the Apple of my eye and I trust what
Speaker 1: he said. Kid never heard me really, he said, you
Speaker 1: want to be in my band. So he called Birdman,
Speaker 1: who was still Wayne with Men of Ferguson band. He
Speaker 1: called Birdman and told Man of Ferguson the Wayne is
Speaker 1: a fighter pilot. He's not a he doesn't work with
Speaker 1: bombers like Big Man fighter pilot. So the man, I said,
Speaker 1: he can find somebody to take his place out. Don't go,
Speaker 1: said kay, And I found somebody real good cat too.
Speaker 1: And then I flew from there to French Lick, Indiana,
Speaker 1: be accessible with the Messengers, Miles Davis, all of them, Cannibal,
Speaker 1: they're all that. And I'm That was the start of
Speaker 1: my my gig with the Jazz Messengers. And here's one
Speaker 1: of the big piece of advice that I got. We
Speaker 1: got from Mark Blakey when we went to Europe. Our shit.
Speaker 1: Don't try to razzle dazzle and then and uh and
Speaker 1: uh you know people and how much you know about
Speaker 1: jazz and bebop and how much you know don't try
Speaker 1: to show off, yeah, show off and everything that it's
Speaker 1: just the only thing they're gonna remember. It's your behavior.
Speaker 1: He said, Okay, your behavior found cool. Me and Lea
Speaker 1: we were cool and everything. So the behavior it's like
Speaker 1: a guide for us wherever we went to just be cool,
Speaker 1: play and play what you play. He was the coolest
Speaker 1: dressers to everything, you know. And uh so I was
Speaker 1: looking with them for five years, five years with them,
Speaker 1: jazz messenges and uh just be cool, don't pack your foot,
Speaker 1: don't pack your foot with at Lee Morgan, documentaries everything. Nah,
Speaker 1: that was great. One question I have for you, mister Shorter,
Speaker 1: was about one of my favorite saxophonists, cannon Ball Adderlie. Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: you talk about just your work with him and like
Speaker 1: you guys, relationship, what was What was he like? So
Speaker 1: cannon Ball was he was cool. He was very kind
Speaker 1: of not not jovial, but he liked to have a
Speaker 1: good time. He liked to he liked to have the
Speaker 1: bounce in his music. Did it didn't It didn't, did
Speaker 1: did it? You know? And uh yeah he had a
Speaker 1: nice uh combination with Miles and all them, and I didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't. There was the combination of J. J. Johnson
Speaker 1: Sonny said and Miles too. Then I was real short.
Speaker 1: I did these people like Cannonball JJJ? I played on
Speaker 1: J G. Johnson's last record, Cannonball. I saw him last
Speaker 1: at the Blue Note in the lower part of h
Speaker 1: New York near the Holland Tunnel, and uh, him and
Speaker 1: his brother Nat we had conversations and something about life
Speaker 1: and stuff. But that thing about being a school teacher,
Speaker 1: that that was very evident in his uh mannerism when
Speaker 1: he talked about music and stuff like that, he was
Speaker 1: still attached to being a teacher. And Florida. I know,
Speaker 1: you're talking to the schools in Florida something like that.
Speaker 1: And but but then there's there's the other ones, this
Speaker 1: one and they had, uh, there's there's some outo saxophone players.
Speaker 1: Then my my brother was crazy about one name, Ernie Henry.
Speaker 1: And he said there was Danny Quebec who did the
Speaker 1: opening of Around Men like do do do do? Do? Do? We?
Speaker 1: Did you know that? I que back to nephew. Uh.
Speaker 1: The names of people that had sound World they are
Speaker 1: Gray World, Al Gray whatever and and it's a Ward
Speaker 1: Gray and uh, my man, just who did the realm
Speaker 1: And like we sitting standing around the jukebox, Waldoor Gray
Speaker 1: had that that sound this sound up. A lot of
Speaker 1: the guys wanted that, said guests got that sound and
Speaker 1: Wardou Gray and Uh the President. Let's say you had
Speaker 1: a discussion with Lesser Young in a nightclub up in
Speaker 1: Canada and he on his night off or doing a break.
Speaker 1: I was looking for something to drink in the club
Speaker 1: when I'm doing a break. He took me down into
Speaker 1: the cell of the wine cellar. He said, let's go
Speaker 1: downstairs and get some real cornyac and we just talked.
Speaker 1: I didn't tell him I was in the army. I
Speaker 1: didn't tell him I was a musician. But he we
Speaker 1: talked a little bit. The first and last time I
Speaker 1: saw Lesser Young in person the club on Young Street
Speaker 1: and uh and Toronto, Canada. Yeah that that club was
Speaker 1: something so. But other than that, these conversations were Billy Epstein,
Speaker 1: who says something backstage, he's telling us something. Art is
Speaker 1: introducing us to these guys, and Lewis Armstrong and then
Speaker 1: Lionel Hampton and we're shaking hands with uh Man and
Speaker 1: the Lionel said, right, he to call everybody Gates, Hey, Gates,
Speaker 1: write something for my band. Gates, write something up the
Speaker 1: Gates nis what he heard me and to all of
Speaker 1: these people, Man, I'm telling you is Duke Ellington. We
Speaker 1: were not shaking hands with these people and moving them
Speaker 1: through and it was a uh, what's his name, Dad
Speaker 1: day st Q, let's go ahead. Wait, I don't know
Speaker 1: that time, Jameron, Tad, Jameron and okay, the names man.
Speaker 1: And there's the ladies too. Oh just shut up. Where
Speaker 1: there's some ladies. The Sweethearts of Rhythm, Yes, yeah, the Sweethearts, Yes, yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: and something about the clouds and knew that's original. It
Speaker 1: was just clouds of Joy or something like that, The
Speaker 1: Sweethearts of Rhythm. And there was Slyde Hampton the Slide.
Speaker 1: Hampton's sister glad It's Hampton played trump. She played like
Speaker 1: Hilly Joe Jones and this Glory of Bell, who was
Speaker 1: married to George Coleman. Gloria Bell played the bass. I'm
Speaker 1: having a jams giving some homework. You are giving all
Speaker 1: these listeners some homework. I love it. References. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: she had a place seven harm called Connie's when we
Speaker 1: did jam sessions at Connie's, and right across street was
Speaker 1: with uh Smalls Paradise. Yes, we go back then played
Speaker 1: to the jam session. There's Nancy Wilson sitting in the audience.
Speaker 1: She was the secretary to uh uh Dane Carroll's husband
Speaker 1: at the time. Wow kid of stuff standing stuff was
Speaker 1: going on and uh and the guy that Denzel Washington
Speaker 1: played as the gangster, the guy who ran. Yeah, he'd
Speaker 1: be sitting under the bar checking out who's coming is
Speaker 1: going because they had the double park Eldorados outside and
Speaker 1: some people came inside, some of these high rollers. They
Speaker 1: would come inside and want to hear Miles played one
Speaker 1: note and as Myles looked fast and the guy put
Speaker 1: down the big dollars hundred dollars Joe and said that
Speaker 1: did it. I came. I came to hear the mouth
Speaker 1: and I heard him and then me this documentary is
Speaker 1: gonna be good. You need to script too, We need everything.
Speaker 1: This is kind of a two parter, but when we
Speaker 1: come back for part two, I definitely want to get
Speaker 1: into um your work on your opera with you know,
Speaker 1: the great Esperanza Spalding and Dick Ingenia project. And so
Speaker 1: I thank you for this education. We're gonna comment with
Speaker 1: a part two of course Supreme with a great Wayne
Speaker 1: Shorter and we hope you guys come and join us. Okay, whatchlap.
Speaker 1: Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts
Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.