1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: Questlove Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. What's going on, y'all? 2 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: This is Questlove and on behalf of the QLs family. 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: We're going to celebrate the life, the light, and the 4 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: legacy of the great Wayne Shorter and absolute master of 5 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 1: his craft, be it with his beginnings with the Art 6 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: Blakey Jazz Messengers, or with his mind blowing work with 7 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: one of the greatest quintets in jazz music. Of course, 8 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 1: I'm talking about his tenure with Miles Davis. Also with 9 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: the occasional side gig with Donald Byrd or McCoy, Tyner 10 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: or Herbie Hancock, Tony Williams, Lee Morgan, Freddy Hubbard, Carlos Santana, 11 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: Cindy Blackman, Santana, Marcus Miller, and even an opera with 12 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: a great Esperanza Spaulding. And of course I'd be remiss 13 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:45,279 Speaker 1: if we didn't mention his spell bonding work with one 14 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: of the greatest creatives of musicians ever gathered. Of course, 15 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: I'm talking about weather Report. We got to speak to 16 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: Wayne brother Wayne June of twenty twenty two. He was 17 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: happy to share his work about his journey as a musician, 18 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: as a creative, as a Buddhist and as a human being. 19 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: We just want to offer condulsis to his family, to 20 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: his friends and his loved ones, and we celebrate his 21 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 1: life's work. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to another 22 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: episode of Quest Love Supreme. Your host question, Love, Oh, 23 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Are you know? Are recently awarded Webby Award 24 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 1: winning Quest Loves three times. It's the third one I 25 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: have yet. I have yet to see those trophies, but 26 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: I trust that we've won those dings. So in the 27 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: record books, do you know who they're sending those two 28 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: like you at all? I don't know, somebody in the sky. 29 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: I have no idea, but there are a lot of 30 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: emails being sent, So there's there's uh yeah, I was 31 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: gonna say, uh, you know somewhere out there, Uh they're 32 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: they're living their dream as Quest Love Supreme Award winners. 33 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: But you know that's neither here nor there, you know, 34 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: because besides getting actual statues and accolades, I'll say that 35 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:11,399 Speaker 1: the joy of doing this podcast is, you know, it's 36 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 1: just every episode we just get educated legend after legend 37 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: after legend, and today is absolutely positively no exception to 38 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 1: that rule. Simply put today, Our Guests is probably one 39 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: of the greatest musicians, one of the greatest composers, one 40 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: of the greatest band leaders, probably one of the greatest improvisers. 41 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: I mean, when you really talk about the genre of 42 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: a free jazz and fusion or whatever you want to 43 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: call it, you know, our Our Guests is beyond pioneer. 44 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: Like see him Moore as as a painter, as an 45 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: artist who probably I'll say that his greatest weapon is 46 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: just his ability to create synesthesia and us with the 47 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: colors that he paints, with his with his compositions and 48 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: with his uh with his actual playing. Probably one of 49 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: the greatest time travels of music. I mean every ever 50 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: play with everybody, every every project of his story career, 51 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: from being a member of the legendary Art Blakey Jazz Messengers, 52 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: you know, playing with like Lee Morgan, Bobby Timmans, Baby 53 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: parrott Um, one of the i mean one of the 54 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: prime architects of the greatest quintets and the history jazz 55 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: with with Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter and Tony Williams, 56 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: with what we call the second great quintet Um, even 57 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: down to forming weather Report with Josell and playing with 58 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: like Jacob Stores and Alfonso Johnson and Victor Bailey and 59 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: all these greats um even to his own work. If 60 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: if if I do this intro, the show will be 61 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: over before we even get to question. Ladies and gentlemen, 62 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: please welcome and give it, give us the honor of 63 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: welcoming one of the greatest architects in music, not the 64 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: one and the only Wayne Short. Thank you very much 65 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: for doing me. Hello, Hello, Hello, everybody. Thank you that introduction. Thanks, 66 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: But really it really belongs to all of the cats. 67 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: I call them the cats, and I even called the 68 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: guys from the classical area they were cats and didn't 69 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: know it. Yeah. So right now, where are you speaking 70 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: to us from? Where are you at right now currently? Well, 71 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: I'm right here in California, Los Angeles. That's where you 72 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: live right now, at home? Yeah, okay, how long has 73 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: that been your home out there? Well, I've been here 74 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: since nineteen seventy two, seventy one, seventy two, but seven 75 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 1: years in Florida, then moved back to California. Yeah. Now, 76 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: normally you know, when I when I do this show 77 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: and try to go through the genealogy, but you know, 78 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: you have seven decades of creativity under your belt, so 79 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 1: we wouldn't even scratch the surface. So I kind of 80 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: want to just do sort of random questioning. Now you 81 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: mentioned California, and there's a myth I would like you 82 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: to settle with me. You know, I come from the 83 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: world of hip hop, and you know hip hop has 84 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 1: been very territorial. You know, the type of hip hop 85 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 1: that comes from New York is different than that of 86 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: down South, that's different than that of the West Coast. 87 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: But can you is there any theory on why you 88 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: believe or I've always felt that California has never truly 89 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: gotten its respect in terms of of jazz music, Like 90 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 1: I've always heard that, you know, no self respecting musician 91 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 1: would ever you know, stay in California like you, you 92 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: would stay in New York, where the heart of creativity is. 93 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: But what was it about California that drew you to it? 94 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: And did you ever adhere to jazz snobs that you know, 95 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: the jazz police whatever that always looked down on California 96 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah, I know what you mean. Well, one 97 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: of the first thing where I moved to California was 98 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: a medical reason. I had a daughter who was acquired 99 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: brain damage when she was born, and then the four 100 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: seasons on the East Coast. The doctor says she would 101 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: get colds from some of the drafts and some of 102 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: the departments, you know, like with windows and stuff like that, 103 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: and then she would be have seizures. Sometimes she would 104 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: have fifteen seizures in a day. And they said, you 105 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: have to be to go to a warm climate, like 106 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 1: with two major climates summer in spring, or go to 107 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 1: California or something like that. So that's we moved from 108 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: New York to California. And while we were moving, we 109 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 1: found out people were moving too, but they didn't have 110 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 1: medical reasons, but they like Herbie Hancocks, he moved just 111 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: before I did Chick Korea Joe's Avenue, and A, yeah, 112 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: they were, And I was thinking they were moving to 113 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: where jazz was needed in a sense, yeah, you know. 114 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: And I got that by observing Charlie Parker when he 115 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: was out here and he was hede beating and relaxing 116 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: it in California and playing some of the places and 117 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: picking up other the West Coast musicians to play with him, 118 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: and uh, I saw him pictures of him rehearsing with 119 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: Leanna Tristano, Lee Konitz and the guys who you know 120 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: out here, the Jet Baker and uh but Johnnie Parker, 121 00:07:55,160 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: he would play bar mits uh anywhere see with Charlie Barker. 122 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: I'm saying where you were didn't matter. He was so 123 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: I mean the movie where he was singing Mario Orlansis 124 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: being my Love, right, Yeah, Bars Whittaker was actually acting 125 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: and singing, you know. And Uh. While I'm mentioning this, 126 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: I like to mention a musician who passed away. I 127 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: didn't know he had passed away. His name was Bernard, right, 128 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: yet he was kind of wild and everything. I didn't 129 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: I didn't realize he came out of the church when 130 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: he was young. But he was one of the guys 131 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: who played uh, synthesizer any way he wanted to and piano. 132 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: It didn't matter where he was. I'm sticking on this 133 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: where you are location thing. And we have a little 134 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: thing we say and talk about in the in Buddhism, 135 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 1: when you're pack your suitcase, you're gonna move somewhere where 136 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: you think you you better off. There's a little guy 137 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: sitting on the suitcase named Karma talking about what took 138 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:10,680 Speaker 1: you so long, I'm going with you, so you're gonna 139 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:15,559 Speaker 1: take your environment with you. And never giving up is 140 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: my model. Never give up and don't let where you 141 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: are Foolia, that's it, okay. You you mentioned um being 142 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: a practicing Buddhist. You know, one of the first people 143 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: that I've ever heard mentioning that they were practicing Buddhists 144 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: was Herbie Hancock. Is it safe to assume that both 145 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: of you discovered this at the same time or were 146 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: you too a part of each other's process and studying Buddhism, 147 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: because you know, even back I remember interviews as early 148 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: as like nineteen seventy one of him speaking of his 149 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: Buddhist practice. When did you become a Buddhist? Well, actually 150 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,959 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three I took up the mantle so to 151 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: speak to Japan without you know, and my wife at 152 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: the time, Anna Maria, she's the one who passed away 153 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 1: on t wa uh. She was nailing something on the 154 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: wall one month one morning in California in our first house. 155 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 1: She's nailing something to the wall, and I said, what 156 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 1: you're doing? Three o'clock in the morning, And she said, 157 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 1: I just came from Herbie's house this afternoon, and he 158 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: was telling me about this uh practice of Buddhism. And 159 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:37,559 Speaker 1: what we learned from Herbie was he learned it from 160 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:41,559 Speaker 1: Buster Williams. He learned about it from Buster Williams. But 161 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: the will and said he learned about it from his wife, 162 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:49,959 Speaker 1: Ronnie Vernica Ronica Williams, when when he was about fresh 163 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: out of high school. And uh so, Herbie said, why 164 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: don't you check it out for your daughter's sake, because 165 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: our daughter was born with these seizures and all that. 166 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: So we thought maybe we would check out the philosophy 167 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: and see how it connects with our daughter. Our daughter 168 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: did pass away at age fifteen of a grandma seizure 169 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: here in California, But the wise practitioners of Buddhism say 170 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: she came with brain damage. But she completed her mission, 171 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 1: and our mission was to expose her parents to the 172 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 1: ultimate law of life, the ultimate law of of their life, 173 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: that that you are eternal and stuff like that. There's 174 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: a lot of the same things. But she came to 175 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: wake us up, even though she didn't she only had 176 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: a few words, a few words to speak and stuff 177 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 1: like that. But her life was not in vain. So 178 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: we're looking at a lot of other people who who 179 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 1: kind of think something is in vain. There's no used 180 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: to do this. I'm gonna give up on that. I got. 181 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 1: I got a bunch of shirts out here it says 182 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: never give up on the shirt, so that that's uh, 183 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: it's not so much trying to be perfect and be 184 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: a religious person. In fact, some of us who practice 185 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: this Buddhism get wilder. Oh hey, I mean, you know, 186 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: or anything where the report comes next. So, of course, 187 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: because the thing is, especially with the history of of 188 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: our people in this country with black people. Yeah, I 189 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 1: always wondered, you know, how hard of a decision was 190 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: that to me, you know, because I think that black 191 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: people were always trained to, you know, like we must 192 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: only follow Christianity and any other philosophy. Like Maurice White 193 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: would tell me that when he was sort of practicing 194 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: his spirituality that it was really controversial with everyday blacks 195 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: because it wasn't under the trope of like God, Jesus 196 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 1: and Christianity. But for you to do that so early, 197 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 1: especially now that we're more open to I guess following 198 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: our hearts and following traditions and ways whatnot. You know, 199 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: how was was this easy for the people around you, 200 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: your family members or your friends or whatever like to 201 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,199 Speaker 1: except where you were going, or did they just look 202 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: at you like an alien Like I was forty or 203 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 1: forty one, where when I thought, you know, I think, 204 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: I said, I got it together. I know, you know, 205 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: I can, I can take care of myself. It's there's 206 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: a point where some of us think we know everything. 207 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: We can end the living in it's coming our way. 208 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: And when I was forty, I stopped to think about 209 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: my daughter's seizures, how she came into the world with 210 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: the brain damage and all that, and I was I 211 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: started thinking about this. I said, wait a minute, there 212 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: is some stuff I don't know about. So I started 213 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: listening to what some of the people I knew. Of course, 214 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: it was her being Buster Williams, my wife at the time, 215 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: Anna Maria. She started working on this listening to philosophy 216 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: before I did. And I when I went on a 217 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: tour in nineteen seventy three, July three to Japan, and 218 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: when we all left with what report we all left, 219 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: and when stopped in Hawaii, I stopped in Hawaii behind them, 220 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: took another plate and got in a small hotel by 221 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 1: myself because I was actually handling alcohol. So I want 222 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: to be myself. When we had two days off before 223 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: we did a concert in Hawaii and just get ripped. 224 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: I not just getting ripped, the sloppy and everything. I've 225 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: got me a new suit, pantamat suit, and I walk 226 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 1: around acting like I can handle everything. And I went 227 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: from nightclub to nightclub, sitting at the bar talking philosophy 228 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: from Jian philosophy with people and all that. And they 229 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: told me, once you start to do this practice as 230 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: a Buddhism Buddhist, all of us jumps that you have 231 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: in you was gonna come out and say it's it's 232 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: like a water hose and garden water hose that hasn't 233 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: been used in a long time. And when you plush 234 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: it with this philosophy, the first thing that comes up, 235 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: there's a lot of leaves and rusts and everything like 236 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: that out of your life. And I was saying, whoa 237 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: I thought I was? You know? So I was. They 238 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: even had a what do you call a missing person 239 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: call or me in Hawaii couldn't find until it was 240 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: time to play the gig, and I went. I got 241 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: myself together and then joined the band and they said, 242 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: you scared us to death. Man with so uh that 243 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: I had gone to a temple in Japan and what 244 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: do you call it? Received something called I don't want 245 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: to see me the words, but Gujakai. Tina Turner has 246 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: a book out on this stuff. She has a whole 247 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: explanation of stuff. And I like that. And I received it. 248 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: And the temple it's only a little baby and myself 249 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: and the baby's mother and the temple, and we received something, 250 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: and we said we're gonna practice this practice. So anyway, 251 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: the thing about playing different once you start doing stuff 252 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: like this a different. What Herbie said was he heard 253 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: Buster Williams take a bass solo one night. Maybe you 254 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 1: heard about this. I mean, this is classic. He took 255 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 1: a bass solo. They were playing at the Penthouse in 256 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: the Seattle Can't Panhouse Niper when when Buster finished, the 257 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 1: applause wouldn't stop. That it was one of the longest 258 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 1: applause the Herbie ever heard. And they got an the 259 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 1: dressed room. He said, Buster, what you've been doing? Explained 260 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,640 Speaker 1: to him a little bit about what he's doing. So Herby, 261 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: I want to try what's going on. And that was 262 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:46,199 Speaker 1: that was when he got what he called that hit, 263 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: that dead, that dead right. Okay, okay, okay, okay, that's 264 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 1: how changed his sound. Okay, well, actually people, he didn't 265 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,360 Speaker 1: want people to think, when you start practicing a philosophy, 266 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:05,120 Speaker 1: you to get hit records. No, but but Herbie got 267 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: a hit before the water. Another man hit the one 268 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: dude a million. But I always thought that Herbie had 269 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 1: a lucky star over his head ever since I met 270 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: him in nineteen sixty three. He's one of those guys 271 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 1: in school. There's another guy with the school with you, 272 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: like Herbie basic where he's a diplomat now. Anyways, anyway, 273 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 1: just like Herbye, they had this lucky star over the 274 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:39,919 Speaker 1: head all their lives. I said, Man, nothing nothing funny 275 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: ever happened to them. Good. But I learned quickly you 276 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: can't count your blessing by watching your neighbor's treasure. Truth 277 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 1: you call it. I took to myself, shut up and 278 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: be cool, and I stopped. I stopped talking. I went 279 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 1: to the meeting. We had meetings at our house, had 280 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: a lot of meetings at our house. People and a 281 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,679 Speaker 1: lot of name dropping people who came to the meetings, 282 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: you know, people who wanted to be movie stars and 283 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: all that wanted to get this, but uh, you'd be 284 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: surprised the names are. You know, I'm not gonna say 285 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: the names, but if everything every now and then I 286 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 1: would say a name of a person who came to 287 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:28,399 Speaker 1: our house to a meeting, and somebody would say, oh, 288 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 1: your name dropping, Now your name dropped. But I cut 289 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: them off and say, no, I'm not name dropping, I'm 290 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: named lifting. One question I had for you, mister Shorter, 291 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: how did you get the nickname mister Gone? Oh? Yeah, 292 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: I was in the Brazil and we all had We 293 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: all went to Brazil to do festival there, and then 294 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: the band came back to the United States early to 295 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: do this record. I ate another month in Brazil while 296 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: they were making a record, and they were making some music. 297 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: They were the name they name did it after me? It? Joe? Come, 298 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 1: let's call this one, mister Gone. I really liked Joe's 299 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:27,400 Speaker 1: piece Young and Fine on that on that album. Time. Yeah. Yeah, 300 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:31,919 Speaker 1: I briefly met you once, um at a festival. I 301 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: mean this is like twenty years ago or twenty maybe 302 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: twenty five years ago, and just briefly talking. And I 303 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 1: believe you told me that you didn't even start your 304 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 1: craft and playing uh, clarinet and saxophone until you were 305 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: like well into your teens, so you know, and I 306 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 1: really did because we were in passing. I always wanted 307 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: to ask you. So you're telling me that I would 308 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 1: have thought that you would have came out the room, 309 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: you know, with with with with the accent hands. How 310 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 1: did how did you discover your talents at such kind 311 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: of a late stage in your life? Well, actually, I 312 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: used to play hookie from when I started high school. 313 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: I played hookie go to the movies, walk and walk 314 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: past to school and going down to downtown to movie 315 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: theater and I used to go see uh, like two 316 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: movies and the stage show. And the stage show was 317 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,360 Speaker 1: at the theater is called the Adams Theater. And there 318 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: was Dizzy Lesbi you don't know a Jacket and his 319 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: brother Russell Jacket, and the thing called the Jazz at 320 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: the Philharmonics. I'm I'm I'm watching this stuff listening. I 321 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:55,880 Speaker 1: was about fifteen then, and there's a music store right 322 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: around the corner from the high school. I used to 323 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: walk by this music store and look in the window. 324 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 1: I was majoring in art and I found myself cutting 325 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: classes just go looking at music, look at the instruments 326 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: in the music store. Then I got me uh for 327 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 1: a dollar something dollars fifty A little thing looks like 328 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: a submarine called a tonette, a plastic It's like a 329 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 1: plastic flute at six holes. I got it, and I 330 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: used to walk around the neighborhood blowing on this thing, 331 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 1: like do do do do? Do? Do do do? And 332 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: my mother said, whenever she wanted to get me to 333 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: come into a dinner, she oh, she had just opened 334 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,439 Speaker 1: the window, and here where I was, here where I 335 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 1: was at, But I know where you're at. So then 336 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:56,640 Speaker 1: I started fingering this thing. No instructions. I just saw 337 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 1: do do do you know? Playing with it? And when 338 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: I went to see the stage shows, I hear them playing, 339 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:11,120 Speaker 1: Um they did they did? Did they? And I mashed 340 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 1: the holes on this little it looks like a submarine. 341 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: I mashed the DoD do do? I try to mash 342 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 1: what I heard? And then I looked in the window 343 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: real close one time, and there's this clarinet sitting up 344 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 1: there among the other instruments are vertical. And my grandmother 345 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 1: and my mother got the money together to get this 346 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: cl clarinet, which cost ninety dollars. It was a used 347 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 1: clarinet in the name. When I said somebody's name Elizabeth 348 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: new Jersey on each part of the clarinet, they get 349 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: taken apart and I got that class. I still have it, 350 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 1: You still have it? Yeah? WHOA and I and I 351 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: and I went into the music store. The guy who 352 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: rand the music store was also he ran the pit 353 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,679 Speaker 1: man af they had him said, and when they had 354 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: the shows, his name was Jack Arnold Press and here 355 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: to take me to the back room, and h started 356 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: to clown that lessons lord, learning to read notes, counting 357 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: and all that cat pat in your foot and all 358 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: you know, stuff like that. I did that one year 359 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: with him. Then he got me a tenor saxophone too, 360 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 1: because he said, you make more money you played clarinet 361 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 1: and tenner the music union again. So I got to 362 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 1: mess around with these things. But I you to talk 363 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 1: playing at home about six hours a day, not every day, 364 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: but six hours of the school days. I stand up 365 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 1: in the room and just I turned around in the 366 00:24:55,000 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 1: six hours going by him, so working on scales stuff 367 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: like that. Uh. Then I listened, So what was out 368 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: there listening to Charlie Parker all the guys are blanky 369 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 1: colonious monk what they were doing. And then I got 370 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: I went to the library and took took out records 371 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: a classical and uh, I got one of the discal 372 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 1: less h Montaka And also I got Stravinsky's The Writer's Springing. Yeah, yeah, Yo, 373 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: that explains everything. The fact that you would shed the 374 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:41,400 Speaker 1: wrights the spring explains everything all right to our listeners 375 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 1: out there, um real quick. Stravinsky's compositions used to cause riots. Ye, 376 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: Stravinsky was the edim of his days. Stravinsky was the 377 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: bomb squad public enemy of his day. Like he would 378 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:59,119 Speaker 1: make the audience angry with clashing notes, and you know, 379 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: he was the free jazz of the classical era. And 380 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:07,920 Speaker 1: when he created Writes a Spring, I mean just name 381 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:12,160 Speaker 1: all the controversial records that you can think of from 382 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: Miles Is on the Corner to it takes a nation 383 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:19,719 Speaker 1: of millions of olders back to even when like you know, 384 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: Radiohead sort of turned their kid back on rock with 385 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: you know, with kid like all these experiments and it 386 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: made the audience angry. But you know this, that was 387 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: like one of the first examples of opening a portal 388 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:37,959 Speaker 1: of creativity where suddenly you didn't follow the rules of music. 389 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 1: You had to just you know, you followed your heart, 390 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: and so you started that. The nineteen oh nine they 391 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 1: were in Paris when it first did the writer spring 392 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:57,160 Speaker 1: publicly and it's a musician. I think it's a masto something. 393 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: They weren't sitting next to another composer and when the 394 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 1: writer spring started, he was annoying. He said, why this 395 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 1: stunsky started with the bassoon where up high? It's an 396 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 1: ugly sound or something like that, and the other guy said, 397 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: he quiet, let's let's see what he's doing. And every 398 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 1: time I played Acus, I said, started with something that 399 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 1: would irritate people. I heard that somebody got killed in that. Uh. Yes, 400 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,399 Speaker 1: it's it was like the first mosh pit or the 401 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: first first act of violence out of music. Uh. You know, 402 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 1: I always bring that up when people talk about like 403 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 1: violence in hip hop, and I'm like, you know, we 404 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: learned about classical music. I think started a long time ago. Listen, 405 00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: let me let me ask you, and I'm skipping on 406 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 1: a little of the place, but since you kind of 407 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 1: barret it up, I gotta ask you. At the time, 408 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: did you feel like Miles was going through his own 409 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: Stravinsky phase in terms of like where he was taking music, 410 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: you know, at the time when Miles was really stretching out, 411 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: and you know, I kind of feel like that phase 412 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,160 Speaker 1: started with the last jazz record that you guys made, 413 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: which was the neffertd album. Can you just explain one thing, 414 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 1: what was the philosophy behind the title track Neffertdi, in 415 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: which you norm Miles took a solo and you let 416 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 1: Tony Williams and Ron Carter just run rampant with experiments 417 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: like that was just unheard of at the time, Like 418 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: or were you guys just like roll the tape, you know, TiO, 419 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: start the tape and just start going, Like what was 420 00:28:55,320 --> 00:29:00,120 Speaker 1: the philosophy behind that particular that particular session which you 421 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: guys did a seven minute jazz soul song with no 422 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: solos in it and just let the rhythm section go crazy. 423 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: I feel like he had something. I knew he was 424 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: getting a prop I knew he was. I love it. 425 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: Let's go. You see this lefort you're holding up the 426 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: statue and effort. I made this when you I was 427 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: fifteen years old. Wow, And I got it from the 428 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 1: school before they got it, got a hold of it themselves. 429 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: You know I made this. No, this is a a 430 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: replica of the one that they have in the Bell 431 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: in the museum. Yeah. I got it from the newspaper 432 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: and I toughted it even clay and plaster. And this 433 00:29:55,200 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: is it from nineteen fifty one, nineteen fifty, from nineteen 434 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: fifty to now. Yea, it is hitting talents. That's beautiful. 435 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 1: Our listeners out there, mister short is we're on zoom. 436 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: Of course he's holding up a white sculpture of nupported 437 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: and you did this at fifteen. Oh yeah, this is 438 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: on YouTube and people are going to see that sculpture. 439 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 1: So that's good. I didn't I didn't know how heavy 440 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 1: the thing is heavy. That is beautiful. What caused you 441 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 1: guys to do the repetition thing with no solos? Oh yeah, 442 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 1: well Miles when we started playing it, Miles, so it 443 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: was indicating with his body movement. He keept doing like 444 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: again again again, so we go do the melody again. 445 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 1: He kept going and then Tony Williams started doing like 446 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: the drum thing behind him. Don't need any solos. I 447 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: don't need the solo because when we played it in 448 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 1: person later when Chip Korea was a pianist chick would 449 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: play it's solow here and there on it. But it 450 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 1: was he said, he said that there's nothing can match 451 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: the melody. Yeah, what we heard. I went to Sweden 452 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 1: and got one of those awards in Sweden m hm. 453 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: And they meet an arrangement of Netid, which is the 454 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 1: baddest arrangement I've heard so far. With the orchestra there. 455 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: They man, they tore it up and they didn't they 456 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 1: didn't solo. They just did the melody and and put 457 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 1: clothes on it, put a costume on it. That was 458 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,959 Speaker 1: like like only the Swedish, the Europeans and they're artistic, 459 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: you know. They were saying we understand. It was saying 460 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 1: we understand where where you want to go and where 461 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 1: you could go? How about this? So with Miles, it 462 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: was after Neffer td that Miles did the bitches brew 463 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: m It's like he he also he also wanted to 464 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: start writing music where he would get get the publishing, 465 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: you know, royalties from publishing songwriting and stuff like that, 466 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: and that that when he got from Betty I'm a 467 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: down Home Girl. That's that was hers her lyrics and everything. 468 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: He made the disse a melody out of stuff like 469 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: that place, and uh, that's when he crossed over into 470 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 1: concert halls, from the nightclubs into concert halls and his 471 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: his The funny thing he said, one of the first 472 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: things he did when he crossed over was a dull 473 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 1: Grahams the ice House or someplace in California in the 474 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:15,480 Speaker 1: dressing room. We only played like a half hour, and 475 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 1: he got good money for it. So what it was 476 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: we were used to playing two hours or an hour, 477 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: and this is the first time we played thirty minutes. 478 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: And the mouse was looking at this the paycheck that 479 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: he got from the frontal organization. We were all sitting 480 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 1: around and we didn't look at it ourselves, but moles 481 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 1: are looking at the paycheck. He said, damn, thirty minutes. 482 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 1: He looked at us and he said, I feel like 483 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 1: the seats. But that's when he started, you know, we talked. 484 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: He went to Europe. He started getting the conscious in 485 00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: Europe and stuff like that, and that's when he met 486 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: Sesame Tyson. But that that's that part. But before Miles died, 487 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: we all met in Switzerland. M I need to help 488 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 1: the thing with Quincy Jones and all that stuff. Wallace 489 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,799 Speaker 1: running was playing Miles as parts on the trumpet and 490 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 1: all that, and the Moles got me and Herbie together 491 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: and said what he said, what would it be like 492 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: if we got together again? And we said when you 493 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: were talking about yeah, we said, we said, ruh ruh. 494 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 1: Wait a minute, you're trying to tell me, because the 495 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,320 Speaker 1: thing was I asked Quincy, like, how did you get 496 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 1: Miles to even agree to even go anywhere close to 497 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: that type of jazz, which you know he had he 498 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 1: had somehow avoided, you know, for least in that traditional 499 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: sense of playing jazz. And you're telling me that, Miles Davis, 500 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: you and Herbie actually spoke of wanting something together again. 501 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,800 Speaker 1: Miles was thinking about what would we sound like after 502 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 1: weather Report and after Hunter and after all that. But 503 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 1: Herbie's been to and I've been what what what kind 504 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 1: of stuff could we uh conjure up? That's what everybody 505 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 1: want to know. Yeah, yeah, So where he went to 506 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:26,799 Speaker 1: the thing called dud Bob with an easymobile, you know, 507 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,359 Speaker 1: and then he got two guys and Marcus Miller and 508 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 1: then they got those guys together, you know, guitar players 509 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:38,800 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. But it's his body. His body 510 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:44,400 Speaker 1: kind of dictated dictated where he was going to go musically, 511 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:52,880 Speaker 1: and he would have to rest while playing. Okay, and 512 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:57,239 Speaker 1: uh to start a whole new something. You know, it's 513 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 1: been a lot of work, but we wasn't supposed to 514 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:09,320 Speaker 1: get together again. Really, but that thought was like like uh, 515 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:17,279 Speaker 1: lighting and lighting a match in a dark tunnel. I 516 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: have a question about Miles um. Has he offered any 517 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,399 Speaker 1: sort of opinion on your work with Weather Report during 518 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:29,439 Speaker 1: that period. Yeah, he did say that was the only 519 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 1: thing happening, he wrote, He wrote in a newspaper. He said, 520 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: the only thing that was happening out there was Weather Report, 521 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:43,880 Speaker 1: Oh oh wow. And he mentioned some pianos like happening 522 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:48,919 Speaker 1: as a pianist is Herbie Check, a couple of other 523 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: pianists that you know, uh, band leaders and everything. That's 524 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,920 Speaker 1: the only thing happening. When he was going for the 525 00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,920 Speaker 1: six years, and he'd come to see us at the 526 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 1: Theater in New York, hm, and people didn't know who 527 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,799 Speaker 1: he was. He come backstage, they didn't know who he was, 528 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:16,720 Speaker 1: and he said, let Miles in man. Really Yeah, oh wow, 529 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 1: that's crazy of your your first round of solo work 530 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 1: like the like the Schizophrenia album, The Night dreamer Alsie 531 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 1: and I like, my favorite is Juju. But can you 532 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:34,399 Speaker 1: talk about what the creative process was in doing your 533 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: solo work, because I would imagine that if you were 534 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 1: in Miles's band, like I would imagine that, I know 535 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,359 Speaker 1: some band leaders that were frowned doing what they were 536 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:49,360 Speaker 1: called moonlighting, like doing your own solo works. I always 537 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:53,400 Speaker 1: wanted to know how Myles felt about like you and Herbie, 538 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:57,280 Speaker 1: especially like doing your own solo work on the side 539 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 1: at Blue Note while still being in in this this quintet, 540 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 1: you guys were so tight as a unit. How often 541 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,960 Speaker 1: would you guys practice as a band during that period? 542 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 1: I mean as a Miles Davis band or our own band? Well, 543 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,839 Speaker 1: I mean just I guess I'm asking how are you 544 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:21,920 Speaker 1: able to you know, maximize creativity what Miles Davis and 545 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 1: also subsequently do your own solo stuff on the side. 546 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:30,280 Speaker 1: I think where Miles he welcomed that that it would 547 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:35,960 Speaker 1: shine on him, you know it would Uh we do 548 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 1: our own publicity, so to speak, which bounced off on 549 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:47,600 Speaker 1: the Miles Davis quintet was like, Uh, we didn't have 550 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:52,960 Speaker 1: to call Miles to ask what a retainer while we 551 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,719 Speaker 1: were off when he's like in a hospital or something 552 00:38:55,760 --> 00:39:01,200 Speaker 1: like that. We were like self kind of self sufficient 553 00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:05,360 Speaker 1: in that way. A lot of people wanted to play 554 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 1: with the Miles Davids rhythm section, you know, they wanted 555 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 1: to make records with the Miles Davis rhythm section. But 556 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:20,440 Speaker 1: the guys were like Furby and then then there's McCoy. 557 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:24,520 Speaker 1: You had another way. You had the top guys doing 558 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:28,520 Speaker 1: things together and it made it a little difficult for 559 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:33,879 Speaker 1: anyone to crash that to or tear it down or 560 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:38,279 Speaker 1: uh speak against it, you know is wow, they got 561 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 1: open June even art break. He played on one of 562 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:51,120 Speaker 1: my records. My first records played the drunk. So there 563 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 1: was that given takes respect built in. But then later 564 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:04,040 Speaker 1: when people start counting counting the beans, that the royalties 565 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:09,360 Speaker 1: what sold and what didn't sell, and that there was 566 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,800 Speaker 1: an effort I think on the record company's part to 567 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:21,560 Speaker 1: um break up any kind of alliance that we formed 568 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 1: that they couldn't get their hands on. They were discouraging 569 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:35,320 Speaker 1: the build up of like a u'd and Duke allingas 570 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,839 Speaker 1: band for life, but people starting a band from Duke 571 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,800 Speaker 1: Ellingons band or starting their own band from count Bass 572 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,920 Speaker 1: Yeah Erskine Hawkins and you know all that they were 573 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:54,719 Speaker 1: together almost like a life sentence. You know, they're the 574 00:40:54,760 --> 00:41:00,200 Speaker 1: only ones who graduated in a sense, would be like 575 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:09,359 Speaker 1: if you went into movies like Tap Dancers or the Vocalist. Yeah, 576 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:14,239 Speaker 1: have you seen that Gers documentary? No? Yes, yes, but 577 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,840 Speaker 1: she became the band leader. M Yeah. I was just 578 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,080 Speaker 1: going to ask you because I've seen you in a 579 00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:24,200 Speaker 1: lot recently and especially Lee Morgan and Miles, and I 580 00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,920 Speaker 1: was wondering, as an architect, how do you feel in 581 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,920 Speaker 1: this moment of documenting all its history and do you 582 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:34,000 Speaker 1: feel like they're getting it right? They're they're doing part 583 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 1: and parcel put it that way. Okay, what would you like? 584 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:45,279 Speaker 1: There's another one coming out on myself a second, your 585 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,120 Speaker 1: second documentary about about you. Right, it's a second. No, 586 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,799 Speaker 1: this is no, this is a full one. Okay, come 587 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:56,719 Speaker 1: out soon and this is uh I can say what 588 00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,279 Speaker 1: is the title rep thus far? The title is uh 589 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:08,880 Speaker 1: Wayne Shorter, zero Gravity. I'd be remiss if I didn't 590 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 1: speak of your your work with the Jazz Messengers. I 591 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:18,319 Speaker 1: just want to know in general, is the Jazz Messengers 592 00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:23,319 Speaker 1: like your first actual like professional big gig, just in 593 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:27,960 Speaker 1: terms of you being with with the unit Yeah, yeah, messengers. 594 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,880 Speaker 1: How do I know you're from You were from Newark? 595 00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:36,360 Speaker 1: I know that. You know, America was in such a 596 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:42,360 Speaker 1: chaotic sort of place, especially for black people. What was 597 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,480 Speaker 1: it like as as a person that was able to 598 00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:50,080 Speaker 1: leave America and start touring the world and going overseas 599 00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,320 Speaker 1: and all those things to see what effect did that 600 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:58,120 Speaker 1: have on you? Well? Actually I was working with Maynard 601 00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,960 Speaker 1: Ferginson's band, you know, Maynard focused in the Big Band 602 00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:06,440 Speaker 1: about three weeks and one time we were working at 603 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:10,719 Speaker 1: Birdland and the waiter said, there's a telephone call from 604 00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:15,840 Speaker 1: Wayne Alive Blake. He's on the phone, said. Lee Morgan 605 00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,840 Speaker 1: had come to New York, New Jersey and played a 606 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:25,000 Speaker 1: session with John Coltrane, and as on midnight, the Lee 607 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,640 Speaker 1: called my house. He heard about me. He called my 608 00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:31,200 Speaker 1: house for I'd like to go and play with them 609 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,640 Speaker 1: in the last number, still playing a night in Tunisia 610 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,439 Speaker 1: at a nightclub in New York, and I went, got 611 00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,560 Speaker 1: my stuff together and played on the Last Number with 612 00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:48,719 Speaker 1: Lee Morgan and John Coltrane. Yeah, there was a jam 613 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,640 Speaker 1: session and Lee had been going around to the jam 614 00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:56,000 Speaker 1: sessions listening to people, and we worked in New York 615 00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:59,640 Speaker 1: with Dizzy get Leslie's big band with the drummer Charlie 616 00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:03,160 Speaker 1: Person from Nook. You know, I was at the place 617 00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,719 Speaker 1: called sugar Hill, by the way, that's the place I 618 00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,560 Speaker 1: saw Billie Holiday before I went in the army. He 619 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:16,040 Speaker 1: was at sugar Hill and Nook too much, right, everybody? Yeah, 620 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,640 Speaker 1: the one this month. They was all in there. And anyway, 621 00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:24,120 Speaker 1: when I got out of the army, that's when Lee 622 00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:29,360 Speaker 1: called me and said, I'm playing with John Coltrane and 623 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:32,600 Speaker 1: Nook at midnight. We're gonna play one more number. Can 624 00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,280 Speaker 1: you come? I heard about you, so I went and played. 625 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:39,239 Speaker 1: Then when I got with men Our Fergus, this band, 626 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:43,799 Speaker 1: we were playing in Canada at a race track, the 627 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:48,160 Speaker 1: Canadian Exposition we call it, and doing the break I'm 628 00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,919 Speaker 1: a Jamal and Sarah Van. They were doing a break head. 629 00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,280 Speaker 1: Comes Lee Morgan running across the red the race track. 630 00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,399 Speaker 1: He came up to me. I'm sitting here in the audience. Yeah, 631 00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:01,759 Speaker 1: you want to be with the Messengers. You want to 632 00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,600 Speaker 1: be with the Messengers. I said, yeah, to come with 633 00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:07,279 Speaker 1: me and I went to a tenth. That's all right, Blake, 634 00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:11,400 Speaker 1: you said, man and I said, he said, Lee Morgan 635 00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:16,440 Speaker 1: is the Apple of my eye and I trust what 636 00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:20,319 Speaker 1: he said. Kid never heard me really, he said, you 637 00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:26,040 Speaker 1: want to be in my band. So he called Birdman, 638 00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,160 Speaker 1: who was still Wayne with Men of Ferguson band. He 639 00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:33,400 Speaker 1: called Birdman and told Man of Ferguson the Wayne is 640 00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:37,000 Speaker 1: a fighter pilot. He's not a he doesn't work with 641 00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:44,200 Speaker 1: bombers like Big Man fighter pilot. So the man, I said, 642 00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:47,520 Speaker 1: he can find somebody to take his place out. Don't go, 643 00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:51,280 Speaker 1: said kay, And I found somebody real good cat too. 644 00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:55,360 Speaker 1: And then I flew from there to French Lick, Indiana, 645 00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:00,680 Speaker 1: be accessible with the Messengers, Miles Davis, all of them, Cannibal, 646 00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:03,560 Speaker 1: they're all that. And I'm That was the start of 647 00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:07,879 Speaker 1: my my gig with the Jazz Messengers. And here's one 648 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,560 Speaker 1: of the big piece of advice that I got. We 649 00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:14,960 Speaker 1: got from Mark Blakey when we went to Europe. Our shit. 650 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:21,160 Speaker 1: Don't try to razzle dazzle and then and uh and 651 00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:26,280 Speaker 1: uh you know people and how much you know about 652 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,600 Speaker 1: jazz and bebop and how much you know don't try 653 00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:33,879 Speaker 1: to show off, yeah, show off and everything that it's 654 00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:38,319 Speaker 1: just the only thing they're gonna remember. It's your behavior. 655 00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:45,040 Speaker 1: He said, Okay, your behavior found cool. Me and Lea 656 00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:50,279 Speaker 1: we were cool and everything. So the behavior it's like 657 00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:57,560 Speaker 1: a guide for us wherever we went to just be cool, 658 00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:02,200 Speaker 1: play and play what you play. He was the coolest 659 00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,759 Speaker 1: dressers to everything, you know. And uh so I was 660 00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:09,640 Speaker 1: looking with them for five years, five years with them, 661 00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:16,720 Speaker 1: jazz messenges and uh just be cool, don't pack your foot, 662 00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:23,879 Speaker 1: don't pack your foot with at Lee Morgan, documentaries everything. Nah, 663 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:27,640 Speaker 1: that was great. One question I have for you, mister Shorter, 664 00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:32,600 Speaker 1: was about one of my favorite saxophonists, cannon Ball Adderlie. Yeah, um, 665 00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:35,239 Speaker 1: you talk about just your work with him and like 666 00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:39,440 Speaker 1: you guys, relationship, what was What was he like? So 667 00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:43,759 Speaker 1: cannon Ball was he was cool. He was very kind 668 00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:47,719 Speaker 1: of not not jovial, but he liked to have a 669 00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:51,840 Speaker 1: good time. He liked to he liked to have the 670 00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:57,080 Speaker 1: bounce in his music. Did it didn't It didn't, did 671 00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:02,640 Speaker 1: did it? You know? And uh yeah he had a 672 00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:07,440 Speaker 1: nice uh combination with Miles and all them, and I didn't. 673 00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:11,000 Speaker 1: I didn't. There was the combination of J. J. Johnson 674 00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:15,960 Speaker 1: Sonny said and Miles too. Then I was real short. 675 00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:22,480 Speaker 1: I did these people like Cannonball JJJ? I played on 676 00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:30,040 Speaker 1: J G. Johnson's last record, Cannonball. I saw him last 677 00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,880 Speaker 1: at the Blue Note in the lower part of h 678 00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:40,680 Speaker 1: New York near the Holland Tunnel, and uh, him and 679 00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:45,120 Speaker 1: his brother Nat we had conversations and something about life 680 00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:50,600 Speaker 1: and stuff. But that thing about being a school teacher, 681 00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:56,080 Speaker 1: that that was very evident in his uh mannerism when 682 00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:58,680 Speaker 1: he talked about music and stuff like that, he was 683 00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:03,279 Speaker 1: still attached to being a teacher. And Florida. I know, 684 00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:06,000 Speaker 1: you're talking to the schools in Florida something like that. 685 00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:12,279 Speaker 1: And but but then there's there's the other ones, this 686 00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:18,160 Speaker 1: one and they had, uh, there's there's some outo saxophone players. 687 00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:22,120 Speaker 1: Then my my brother was crazy about one name, Ernie Henry. 688 00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:26,960 Speaker 1: And he said there was Danny Quebec who did the 689 00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:32,040 Speaker 1: opening of Around Men like do do do do? Do? Do? We? 690 00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:38,160 Speaker 1: Did you know that? I que back to nephew. Uh. 691 00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:43,000 Speaker 1: The names of people that had sound World they are 692 00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:48,040 Speaker 1: Gray World, Al Gray whatever and and it's a Ward 693 00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:51,680 Speaker 1: Gray and uh, my man, just who did the realm 694 00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:57,040 Speaker 1: And like we sitting standing around the jukebox, Waldoor Gray 695 00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:00,960 Speaker 1: had that that sound this sound up. A lot of 696 00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:06,000 Speaker 1: the guys wanted that, said guests got that sound and 697 00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:13,960 Speaker 1: Wardou Gray and Uh the President. Let's say you had 698 00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:17,319 Speaker 1: a discussion with Lesser Young in a nightclub up in 699 00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:23,200 Speaker 1: Canada and he on his night off or doing a break. 700 00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:27,000 Speaker 1: I was looking for something to drink in the club 701 00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:29,520 Speaker 1: when I'm doing a break. He took me down into 702 00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:32,040 Speaker 1: the cell of the wine cellar. He said, let's go 703 00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:35,760 Speaker 1: downstairs and get some real cornyac and we just talked. 704 00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:38,160 Speaker 1: I didn't tell him I was in the army. I 705 00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:40,279 Speaker 1: didn't tell him I was a musician. But he we 706 00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:43,319 Speaker 1: talked a little bit. The first and last time I 707 00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:49,000 Speaker 1: saw Lesser Young in person the club on Young Street 708 00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:54,880 Speaker 1: and uh and Toronto, Canada. Yeah that that club was 709 00:50:54,960 --> 00:51:01,239 Speaker 1: something so. But other than that, these conversations were Billy Epstein, 710 00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:07,360 Speaker 1: who says something backstage, he's telling us something. Art is 711 00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:11,839 Speaker 1: introducing us to these guys, and Lewis Armstrong and then 712 00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:18,360 Speaker 1: Lionel Hampton and we're shaking hands with uh Man and 713 00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:23,400 Speaker 1: the Lionel said, right, he to call everybody Gates, Hey, Gates, 714 00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:26,440 Speaker 1: write something for my band. Gates, write something up the 715 00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:30,239 Speaker 1: Gates nis what he heard me and to all of 716 00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:34,120 Speaker 1: these people, Man, I'm telling you is Duke Ellington. We 717 00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:39,839 Speaker 1: were not shaking hands with these people and moving them 718 00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:44,160 Speaker 1: through and it was a uh, what's his name, Dad 719 00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:53,840 Speaker 1: day st Q, let's go ahead. Wait, I don't know 720 00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:01,960 Speaker 1: that time, Jameron, Tad, Jameron and okay, the names man. 721 00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:06,160 Speaker 1: And there's the ladies too. Oh just shut up. Where 722 00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:14,400 Speaker 1: there's some ladies. The Sweethearts of Rhythm, Yes, yeah, the Sweethearts, Yes, yes, yeah, 723 00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:17,000 Speaker 1: and something about the clouds and knew that's original. It 724 00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:19,440 Speaker 1: was just clouds of Joy or something like that, The 725 00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:23,920 Speaker 1: Sweethearts of Rhythm. And there was Slyde Hampton the Slide. 726 00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:30,040 Speaker 1: Hampton's sister glad It's Hampton played trump. She played like 727 00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:33,239 Speaker 1: Hilly Joe Jones and this Glory of Bell, who was 728 00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:37,600 Speaker 1: married to George Coleman. Gloria Bell played the bass. I'm 729 00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:41,080 Speaker 1: having a jams giving some homework. You are giving all 730 00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:45,839 Speaker 1: these listeners some homework. I love it. References. Yes, yes, 731 00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:49,120 Speaker 1: she had a place seven harm called Connie's when we 732 00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:52,799 Speaker 1: did jam sessions at Connie's, and right across street was 733 00:52:53,560 --> 00:53:00,279 Speaker 1: with uh Smalls Paradise. Yes, we go back then played 734 00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:05,200 Speaker 1: to the jam session. There's Nancy Wilson sitting in the audience. 735 00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:11,040 Speaker 1: She was the secretary to uh uh Dane Carroll's husband 736 00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:16,759 Speaker 1: at the time. Wow kid of stuff standing stuff was 737 00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:21,640 Speaker 1: going on and uh and the guy that Denzel Washington 738 00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:27,040 Speaker 1: played as the gangster, the guy who ran. Yeah, he'd 739 00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:30,320 Speaker 1: be sitting under the bar checking out who's coming is 740 00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:35,520 Speaker 1: going because they had the double park Eldorados outside and 741 00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:39,400 Speaker 1: some people came inside, some of these high rollers. They 742 00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,319 Speaker 1: would come inside and want to hear Miles played one 743 00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:47,879 Speaker 1: note and as Myles looked fast and the guy put 744 00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:51,200 Speaker 1: down the big dollars hundred dollars Joe and said that 745 00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:53,520 Speaker 1: did it. I came. I came to hear the mouth 746 00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:57,800 Speaker 1: and I heard him and then me this documentary is 747 00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:02,760 Speaker 1: gonna be good. You need to script too, We need everything. 748 00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:05,520 Speaker 1: This is kind of a two parter, but when we 749 00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:09,200 Speaker 1: come back for part two, I definitely want to get 750 00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:16,160 Speaker 1: into um your work on your opera with you know, 751 00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:21,719 Speaker 1: the great Esperanza Spalding and Dick Ingenia project. And so 752 00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:26,400 Speaker 1: I thank you for this education. We're gonna comment with 753 00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:29,840 Speaker 1: a part two of course Supreme with a great Wayne 754 00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:41,280 Speaker 1: Shorter and we hope you guys come and join us. Okay, whatchlap. 755 00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:48,560 Speaker 1: Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts 756 00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:52,120 Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 757 00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:54,240 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.