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Speaker 1: We spend a lot of time talking about what's happening

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Speaker 1: at the southern border. We see it with our own

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Speaker 1: eyes as caravans of what appear to be young men

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Speaker 1: come into our country through the southern border. But what's

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Speaker 1: happening once they get here. We know that border security

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Speaker 1: has been gutted, but we don't talk a lot about

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Speaker 1: the gutting and the ambolishment of ICE, about the inability

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Speaker 1: for these people to be able to expel illegal immigrants

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Speaker 1: once they reached the interior. We're going to talk to

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Speaker 1: a guy named John Fabricatory who spent twenty three years

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Speaker 1: at ICE about that problem and why that doesn't get

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Speaker 1: discussed more. We're also going to get his take about

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Speaker 1: how NGOs are facilitating this illegal immigration crisis that we're saying.

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Speaker 1: All of that and more stay with us. Well, John,

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Speaker 1: You've got a lot of experience with ICE, so I'm

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Speaker 1: looking forward to getting your insight on the craziness that

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Speaker 1: we've been seeing under this administration. So appreciate you taking

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Speaker 1: the time to come on the show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: So you were priced for twenty three year years, I

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Speaker 1: believe what are some of the biggest changes you've seen

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Speaker 1: while working there and then since.

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Speaker 2: You know, the biggest change, especially within the last few

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Speaker 2: years under the Biden administration is just the minute the

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Speaker 2: Biden administration came in, there was this tearing down of

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Speaker 2: Interior Enforcement. Uh, you know, with with the priorities that

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Speaker 2: said Secretary of majorc Is set forth for the agency,

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Speaker 2: it really limited the amount of arrests that the agents

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Speaker 2: were able to make on the street. To just give

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Speaker 2: a rough example, in twenty eighteen, h ICE Interior ro

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Speaker 2: made one hundred and fifty eight five hundred and eighty

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Speaker 2: one ICE arrests. In twenty twenty two they made forty nine,

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Speaker 2: three hundred and ninety six arrests. That's a seventy percent decrease.

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Speaker 2: And I mean right there that that just shows you,

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Speaker 2: you know that that something is going on. You know,

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Speaker 2: what what is this issue? What are they limiting that

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Speaker 2: they're disallowing ICE to be able to go out on

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Speaker 2: the street and make these arrests.

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Speaker 1: And that's through you know, some policy orders and executive

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Speaker 1: orders and things that the Biden administration have pushed out.

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Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, exactly, that's exactly you know, since day one

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Speaker 2: when the Biden administration came in, they just pushed out

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Speaker 2: new policy. I mean, they wanted to put one hundred

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Speaker 2: day moratorium on deportations the minute the Biden administration you know,

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Speaker 2: came into office, and you know, thankfully a federal judge

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Speaker 2: put a stop to that. But from day one they've

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Speaker 2: wanted to limit immigration enforcement.

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Speaker 1: Well because I mean, we obviously put a lot of

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Speaker 1: focused on what's happening at the southern border. I think

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Speaker 1: because you know, it's visual, right, you know, we're seeing

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Speaker 1: these caravans come over. We were seeing these military age

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Speaker 1: men come over. I mean, we see it with their

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Speaker 1: own eyes. But there's not as much of a discussion about,

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Speaker 1: you know, the gutting of ICE and the abolishing of

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Speaker 1: ICE once these people get into the country exactly.

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Speaker 2: And that's that's the big issue. I mean, if you

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Speaker 2: look at the non detained docket, which is you know,

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Speaker 2: a docket that the ICE euro officers work on, and

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Speaker 2: it's it's basically the illegal aliens that have come into

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Speaker 2: the country. They've been put into custody, but then they've

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Speaker 2: been lease to the street, so the ICE officers actually

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Speaker 2: follow them on these dockets. There's about five point seven

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Speaker 2: million people on that docket right now, and over four

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Speaker 2: hundred thousand convicted criminal aliens or criminally are currently on

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Speaker 2: that docket. So so to just put that into perspective,

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Speaker 2: there are almost half a million criminal aliens that they

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Speaker 2: know of on this non detained docket.

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Speaker 1: But yet there are policies being put in place and

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Speaker 1: you know, initiatives and directives that are prohibiting ICE's ability

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Speaker 1: to remove those people who we know are criminals.

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Speaker 2: Right even to go out and just make those arrests

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Speaker 2: to get those half a million off of the street,

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Speaker 2: because you know, they're they're they're convicted criminal aliens. They

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Speaker 2: should be you know, put into removal proceedings. They they

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Speaker 2: should have a warrant of arrest for an ICE officer

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Speaker 2: to go out and make that arrest and bring them

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Speaker 2: into custody and actually remove them from the United States.

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Speaker 2: But you know, part of the big problem is it's

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Speaker 2: detention beds. So this administration has not really pushed to

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Speaker 2: increase detention beds. And you know, I think right now

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Speaker 2: they're sitting out about thirty two thousand beds nationwide. Under

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Speaker 2: President Trump that was as high as fifty two thousand beds.

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Speaker 2: And I know that Trump administration was trying to make

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Speaker 2: that even higher. Without the detention beds, there's really not

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Speaker 2: a lot of work that the ICE officers can do.

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Speaker 2: There's no room to put somebody once you arrest them.

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Speaker 2: Most local jurisdictions aren't working with ICE anymore, especially the

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Speaker 2: sanctuary cities, so they don't allow ICE to use their

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Speaker 2: beds like they did in the past. And you know,

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Speaker 2: for me, I think that this administration is doing that

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Speaker 2: on purpose. They know if they can keep the bed

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Speaker 2: numbers down, ICE can't go out and make those arrests.

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Speaker 1: So it's almost forcing the release of illegal immigrants into

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Speaker 1: the interior. And then I mean, how many of those

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Speaker 1: people are seen again, I mean how many people just

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Speaker 1: you know, slip into the night and you know, go

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Speaker 1: on and do god knows what a lot.

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Speaker 2: So, you know, during my career, I supervised the Futuitive

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Speaker 2: Operations Unit, and you know, our job to go out

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Speaker 2: onto the street and actually hunt those people down, find

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Speaker 2: them the ones that were committing crimes, that had not

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Speaker 2: shown up for their immigration hearing or they did and

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Speaker 2: a judge found them removable. So we would actually go

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Speaker 2: out and try to find those people. And that's not

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Speaker 2: happening today. I mean, they've really limited the numbers on

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Speaker 2: the fugitive Operations teams. They're not allowing them to go

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Speaker 2: out like they used to. So it's just this huge

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Speaker 2: limitation on what ICE ERO is allowed to do to

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Speaker 2: go out to actually make our community safer.

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Speaker 1: You know, you help lead multi agency joint task forces

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Speaker 1: enforcing immigration law, looking at things like fugitives, arresting sex offenders,

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Speaker 1: you know, people who are bringing fentanyl traffickers. You know,

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Speaker 1: talk about some of the people you've experienced and you've

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Speaker 1: you saw, you know, during your twenty three years of

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Speaker 1: ICE and why this is important that we be able

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Speaker 1: to expel these people from the country.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, one of it's unique with ICE. So

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Speaker 2: you know, I was on a lot of task forces,

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Speaker 2: worked with a lot of different agencies. What ICE brings

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Speaker 2: to the table when they go in and they work

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Speaker 2: with another agency is we have this ability to go

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Speaker 2: in and just use immigration law to kind of talk

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Speaker 2: to people, to make arrest, to kind of find intelligence.

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Speaker 2: And that that's a big thing to have when you're

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Speaker 2: going out on the street and you're you're trying to

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Speaker 2: find drug traffickers, You're you're dealing with human smuggling, you're

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Speaker 2: dealing with with sex trafficking. Having ICE on that task

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Speaker 2: force is a is a huge benefit. So when we

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Speaker 2: were going out and we were dealing with these issues,

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Speaker 2: like I was assigned to the US Marshals Task Force,

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Speaker 2: the Violent Offender Task Force, and uh, we would go

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Speaker 2: out with the US Marshals and we would look for

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Speaker 2: these alien fugitive, foreign born people who were in the

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Speaker 2: country illegally, who had committed crimes. Uh, you know, had

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Speaker 2: warrants against murder, warrants and and and things like that,

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Speaker 2: and we the US Marshals would use our assets. We

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Speaker 2: would use the US Marshals assets, and we would go

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Speaker 2: out and we would we would find these people and

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Speaker 2: take them out of the community. And again, you know,

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Speaker 2: with with the way things are now under this administration,

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Speaker 2: that's very difficult for ic EO to do that. They're

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Speaker 2: even down with their hiring within ice EROO, so there's

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Speaker 2: multiple positions that are not filled. So that's another ice

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Speaker 2: aating that is just not on the street with these

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Speaker 2: task forces trying to find these people that can do

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Speaker 2: harm to the United States.

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Speaker 1: You do think at a base level, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: I am for a robust border and border security and

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Speaker 1: probably more of a robust policy where we're seeing deportations

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Speaker 1: and we're you know, I just I don't think that

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Speaker 1: people have a right to enter a country, and I

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Speaker 1: think that people are you know, obviously lying seeking asylum

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Speaker 1: where they don't actually have credible fear. They're coming here

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Speaker 1: for economic reasons or you know, because they're being exploited

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Speaker 1: by the cartels, or whatever the reason is. But you

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Speaker 1: would think at the base level, we could all agree

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Speaker 1: that I should be allowed to expel criminals from the country,

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Speaker 1: but you know, here we are.

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Speaker 2: I mean if you even looking at the numbers for that.

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Speaker 2: So you know, when I retired last year, I was

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Speaker 2: the field on was director for all of Colorado and

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Speaker 2: n Wyoming, and we had a lot of removal numbers,

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Speaker 2: you know, just out of Colorado alone, but nationwide. So

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Speaker 2: to give you an idea, during COVID in twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: ice Ero removed one hundred and eighty five eight hundred

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Speaker 2: and eighty four people from the United States deported them.

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Speaker 2: In twenty twenty two, under Joe Biden, they only removed

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Speaker 2: seventy two thousand. That's incredible, going from one hundred and

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Speaker 2: eighty five thousand during the end of COVID. That's a

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Speaker 2: low number. I think that was a twenty percent decrease

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Speaker 2: from twenty nineteen. Now we're down to the last numbers

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Speaker 2: that we have from twenty twenty two. They only remove

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Speaker 2: seventy two thousand, and ICRO has not released their twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty three numbers yet. We're still waiting for those numbers.

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Speaker 2: I believe it's going to be even lower than it

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Speaker 2: was last year.

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Speaker 1: Well you know too, and we're saying an increased number

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Speaker 1: of people on the terror watch list try to enter

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Speaker 1: in the United Country. We're saying an increased I think

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Speaker 1: in two years or something like seventy three thousand special

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Speaker 1: interest aliens. These are people that are coming from countries

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Speaker 1: that harbor terroors. These are people from you know, countries

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Speaker 1: that are you know, pose a potential national security risk.

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Speaker 1: We've seen even since October, there's been thousands of people

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Speaker 1: from China, a couple thousand from Russia, Turkey, you know,

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Speaker 1: enemy nations that we're allowing into this country. You know

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Speaker 1: what kind of national security risk does that all pose

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Speaker 1: to the United States.

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Speaker 2: It's an incredible risk. You know. Since I've retired I've

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Speaker 2: been down to the border seven times. A few weeks ago,

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Speaker 2: I went down to Lukeville, which which you know is

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Speaker 2: one of the epicenters of you know, illegal entry right now,

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Speaker 2: and my partner and I went into the Oregon Pipe

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Speaker 2: National Monument and within thirty minutes we encountered over two

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Speaker 2: hundred illegal aliens from Africa. And as we were talking

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Speaker 2: to them, we were finding out that they were from Sudan, Somalia, Syria, Mali, Nigeria, Iraq.

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Speaker 2: This is incredible, you know, in my career, I would

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Speaker 2: have never thought going down through the border and seeing

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Speaker 2: that many from countries other than Mexico and Central America

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Speaker 2: and South America, and just being and just going there

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Speaker 2: and seeing these people cut through the fence. All the

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Speaker 2: cartel is actually cutting through the fence and then sending

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Speaker 2: them through. But then seeing these people come through the

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Speaker 2: fence line and we're not doing anything. There was no

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Speaker 2: border patrol when we went in there, so we started moving.

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Speaker 2: You know, my partner also retired from ICE. We started

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Speaker 2: consulting for them together. So we've been going down to

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Speaker 2: the border. So are our kind of you know, our

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Speaker 2: backgrounds kicked in and we just started pushing people against

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Speaker 2: the fence line and border patrol shows up and it's

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Speaker 2: like it's two border patrol agents. And before we knew it,

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Speaker 2: there were almost four hundred illegal aliens there inside the monument.

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Speaker 2: And that's incredible. I mean, border patrol is so overwhelmed

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Speaker 2: at the border that's it's allowing this chaos to a happen.

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Speaker 2: It's a chaos loop every day over and over. The

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Speaker 2: border patrol is just dealing with huge amounts and numbers

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Speaker 2: of people and and they they need additional support. They

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Speaker 2: just can't do this. They're they're undermined us. It's just

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Speaker 2: an incredible situation when you actually go and see it

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Speaker 2: with your own two eyes.

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Speaker 1: And then who what kind of people are you talked

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Speaker 1: about some of the different countries, but are they what ages?

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Speaker 1: You know? Is it families? You know, kind of what

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Speaker 1: did you see? What have you seen when you've been

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Speaker 1: at the southern border.

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Speaker 2: It's mostly young men. So what initially happens is when

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Speaker 2: the cartel cuts a hole through the fence line, they

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Speaker 2: send women and children through first. And it's a small

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Speaker 2: amount of women and children. But what they're hoping is

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Speaker 2: that the border patrol is going to respond to that

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Speaker 2: because remember there's cameras and sensors all along the fence line,

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Speaker 2: so the border patrol can kind of see what's what's

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Speaker 2: coming through. And when they send the women and children

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Speaker 2: in first, the border patrol is going to respond to that.

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Speaker 2: They're going to respond to trying to save women and

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Speaker 2: children from being shoved into the middle of the desert.

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Speaker 2: Because this is this is five six miles even away

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Speaker 2: from the port. It's it's it's pretty fun into the desert.

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Speaker 2: So the border patrol response out there to go pick

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Speaker 2: up the women and children, and then the cartel just

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Speaker 2: starts sending all these young men through the fence line.

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Speaker 2: So we were seeing a lot of young men, and

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Speaker 2: you know, in talking to them, most of them were

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Speaker 2: not talking about how they were in danger in their country.

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Speaker 2: They were talking economic opportunity. They wanted to go to

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Speaker 2: New York because they wanted to make money. So many

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Speaker 2: of these people that are coming across have this this

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Speaker 2: illusion in their head that they're going to come into

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Speaker 2: the United States and they're going to be provided a home,

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Speaker 2: they're going to be provided a job, and then they're

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Speaker 2: going to be a millionaire within a year. And as

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Speaker 2: we all know, you know, it takes a lifetime of

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Speaker 2: work to even get close to that. But this is

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Speaker 2: what they're being fed. This is what they're being told,

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Speaker 2: and this is why they're coming over.

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Speaker 1: So who's feeding them that? Is it the cartels or

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Speaker 1: where are they getting this information about, you know, one

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Speaker 1: to come to the United States and then two that

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Speaker 1: there's going to be all these opportunities. Where where is

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Speaker 1: this information coming from?

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Speaker 2: Do you know? So initially it's it's within their own countries.

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Speaker 2: There are criminal organizations over in Africa that are setting

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Speaker 2: up these human smuggling pipelines and they're actually working with

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Speaker 2: the cartel. You know, everyone's making money off of this,

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Speaker 2: you know, the criminal organizations over in Africa, the cartel,

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Speaker 2: and then the NGOs. The NGOs and non governmental organizations

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Speaker 2: are helping to feed this narrative to these people. I mean,

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Speaker 2: the NGOs are meeting them on the other side of

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Speaker 2: the fence line in Mexico and telling these people exactly

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Speaker 2: what to do once they get over. They've they've been finding,

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Speaker 2: you know, addresses in people's pockets that these people don't

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Speaker 2: even know what this address goes to. They've just been

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Speaker 2: told to go to this address, and it's the address

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Speaker 2: of an NGO of an organization that's making millions of

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Speaker 2: dollars off of what's happening right now at the southwest border.

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Speaker 2: So you know, you see these organizations like Catholic charities,

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Speaker 2: Lutheran services, you see, I mean, there's there's tons we

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Speaker 2: can go off the you know, off a list and

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Speaker 2: go through how many are receiving hundreds of millions of

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Speaker 2: dollars from the United States government right now to provide

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Speaker 2: services for these illegal alliances that are coming into the country.

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Speaker 2: So it is a profit, and they are facilitating making

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Speaker 2: that profit by telling these people, hey, look, we're going

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Speaker 2: to take care of you. You'll get food, you'll get

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Speaker 2: a place to sleep, will help you find a job.

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Speaker 2: It's really a racket when you look into it.

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Speaker 1: Quick break more on illegal immigration. And so they're doing

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Speaker 1: I mean, as you mentioned, I mean they're financially incentivized

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Speaker 1: to help feed this illegal immigration crisis that we're seeing,

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Speaker 1: this mass flow of illegal immigration. So I mean, these

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Speaker 1: organizations are making money from the federal government, US tax

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Speaker 1: payers to help encourage this illegal immigration that the Biden

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Speaker 1: administration wants. Because they've made that known since day one.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. The Biden administration policies are magnetic to illegal immigration,

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Speaker 2: and it's just it's just drawing powers, drawing these people in.

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Speaker 2: And then the nng O is like, like you just said,

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Speaker 2: they're they're making huge profits off of this. They don't

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Speaker 2: want this to stop. They want more people to come in.

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Speaker 2: And it's a revolving door. So these people come in,

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Speaker 2: they they put them up in hotels, they get the

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Speaker 2: money that the government says that they're going to pay

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Speaker 2: through these contractors for for housing them. But then they

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Speaker 2: kick the young men out of out of the hotels,

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Speaker 2: and then they bring in the next amount of people

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Speaker 2: and they get paid for those people. So you know,

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Speaker 2: as long as they have this revolving door and they

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Speaker 2: can keep putting you know, bodies and beds, bodies and beds,

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Speaker 2: they're gonna make a lot of money. And that's exactly

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Speaker 2: what they're doing. They're making money hand over fist and uh,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's it's it's really incredible when you look

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Speaker 2: at it that this country is being sold out and uh,

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Speaker 2: it's it's just for profit for some people to make

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Speaker 2: some money. And you know, we're seeing more people wind

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Speaker 2: up on the street a lot of a lot of

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Speaker 2: these migrants are winding up on the street. It's it's

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Speaker 2: gonna cost us millions of dollars and in tack spare

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Speaker 2: of funds to take care of them. And this is

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Speaker 2: not how immigration is supposed to work, you know.

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Speaker 1: And then talk about you know, it's not just big

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Speaker 1: business for the NGOs, it's obviously big business for the

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Speaker 1: cartels as well, you know, so talk about sort of

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Speaker 1: their financial motivations and all of this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's huge for the cartels. So the cartels

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Speaker 2: really saw an ability to make profit off of human smuggling,

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Speaker 2: especially right now within the last three years. You know,

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Speaker 2: when the cartels are moving dope, when they're moving drugs

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Speaker 2: across the line, it takes a little bit for them.

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Speaker 2: They get that profit back. So they move a quantity

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Speaker 2: of drugs, they might move it up to Chicago or Denver,

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Speaker 2: but they've got to wait for those drugs to be

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Speaker 2: sold to make their their their whole profit. With a

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Speaker 2: lot of this alien smuggling, they're making the money upfront,

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Speaker 2: and if they're not making it upfront, they're tying it

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Speaker 2: to these people and they're taking it out of the

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Speaker 2: families of the people that are left behind. So the

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Speaker 2: cartels right now are making billions, billions of dollars off

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Speaker 2: of this and smuggling, and the United States government right

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Speaker 2: now is just kind of turning a blind eye to it.

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Speaker 2: They know the cartel is involved in this. I mean

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Speaker 2: you can you can go down to the border and

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Speaker 2: you can watch the cartel use tools to cut through

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Speaker 2: the fence. And it's not a it's not a two

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Speaker 2: second job. I mean, it takes it takes a while

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Speaker 2: for them to cut through that that border fence. I

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Speaker 2: mean they need to use two different saws. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's it's not an easy cut. It takes a long time.

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Speaker 2: It's loud. The Mexican government is not stopping it. The

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Speaker 2: our government has turned a blind eye to it, and

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Speaker 2: they have border patrol agents processing people and not responding

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Speaker 2: to the fence line getting cut. The whole situation right now,

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's when you look at it, you

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Speaker 2: just can't imagine that this is actually going on the

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Speaker 2: numbers that we're seeing, the numbers coming across the border,

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Speaker 2: the number of people winding up in these sanctuary cities,

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Speaker 2: it's it's incredible, and it's incredible that nothing's being done

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Speaker 2: about it.

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Speaker 1: You know, is there anything else you think that we're

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Speaker 1: missing from this conversation that needs to be discussed.

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Speaker 2: The big thing is is that this administration really is

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Speaker 2: complicit with with what's happening. When you you really have

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Speaker 2: to look at what people say. So when you look

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Speaker 2: at like Secretary Mayorcis and and he's up there and

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Speaker 2: he's always talking about these pathways to migration, way, we

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Speaker 2: have to improve pathways to migration, pathways to migration. Their

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Speaker 2: pathway to migration is in open border. Their pathway to

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Speaker 2: migration is amnesty. And Secretary Majorcus has said that out loud.

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Speaker 2: They keep saying and you even hear the the oppressed

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Speaker 2: Secretary a KJP say it all the time. The immigration

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Speaker 2: system is broken. It's not broken, it's just not being enforced.

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Speaker 2: But they say it's broken because they want you to

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Speaker 2: believe that it's so broke that the only way to

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Speaker 2: fix it is through amnesty, to give amnesty to all

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Speaker 2: these people, start over with a new system, and that

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Speaker 2: is not good for the United States. That should definitely

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Speaker 2: not happen. Should put our foot down on that, And

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Speaker 2: you know, we just have to I mean, I believe

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Speaker 2: Secretary of my Orcas should should be impeached. And I

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Speaker 2: don't know what's taking him so long. I mean, we

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Speaker 2: have so much information to prove that he's that he's

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Speaker 2: turned his back on immigration law. But you know, we

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Speaker 2: really need to look at what they're saying and watch

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Speaker 2: them say all the time. It's a Democrat talking point.

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Speaker 2: The immigration system's broken. It's broken. It's broken. It's not broken.

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Speaker 2: We just need to actually enforce the law.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so hopefully Secretary of my Orcus is you know,

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Speaker 1: is impeached. I agree with you that, you know, I

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Speaker 1: think he needs to be impeached there and hopefully, you know,

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Speaker 1: some sanity it gets restored to the country and realizing that,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're seating our country to enemunations without them

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Speaker 1: having to fire a shot. So, John, I appreciate you

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Speaker 1: taking the time to come on the show. Thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for bringing your insight.

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Speaker 2: Have a great Christmas and a happy New Year.

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Speaker 1: So appreciate John Fabrigatory for joining the show and just

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Speaker 1: bringing his insight from his time at I appreciate you

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Speaker 1: guys at home for listening every Monday and Thursday, but

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Speaker 1: you can listen throughout the week. I want to thank

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Speaker 1: John Cassio and my producer for putting the show together.

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Speaker 1: Until next time.