WEBVTT - The Global Effort to Develop Vaccines 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovk. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.799 you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.640 plus technology, politics, economics, all parnessing the power of Business 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.119 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:19.520 analysts in more than one hundred and twenty countries. You 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:22.800 can download Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:24.840 dot Com. You can also listen to our radio show 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:27.560 at two pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:31.240 us on YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. Well, we mentioned 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:33.559 some of the top headlines today concerning COVID and the 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:37.280 vaccine um Maderno's vaccine for younger teens, but I also 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:39.479 wanted to mention that a White House officials saying that 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:42.640 half of American adults will be fully vaccinated as of today, Tim, 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:45.239 So we're definitely making progress in the United States. We are, 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:47.239 and the number that the Biden administration is looking for 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:49.000 a little over a month from now at the fourth 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:52.280 of July, seventy of American adults having at least one shot. 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:54.760 As far as the cases around the world, topping one 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:57.440 hundred and sixty seven point four million deaths, succeeding three 0:00:57.480 --> 0:00:59.920 point four seven million. Back to vaccines, more than one 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:02.279 points six eight billion doses have been given. All right, 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:05.840 let's get back to someone who has often been a 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:08.160 guiding voice for us throughout the pandemic. We're talking about 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:10.800 Dr Seth Letterman. He's co founder, CEO, and chairman of 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:15.200 the New York based specialty pharmaceutical biopharmer company Tonics Pharmaceuticals, 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:18.480 and he joins us on the phone in Bedford, Massachusetts. Um, 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:20.920 Dr Letterman, could to have you here with Tim and myself. 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:22.720 There is a lot going on, and it does always 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:26.039 feel like we're making some steps forward and uh every 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:27.679 once in a while, though, of course, when we look 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:29.760 at the numbers and look at around the world, we're 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:34.640 reminded that we are not yet out of the health pandemic, 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:36.920 at least not globally. How do you see kind of 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:40.520 where we are in our world right now? Well, first, 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:43.520 it's great to be back with you. I think that 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:46.800 your summary was very accurate. It feels really good in 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:51.680 the in America with our vaccine supplies and cases dropping, 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:55.680 but the world is still in a pretty tough place. 0:01:56.320 --> 0:02:00.240 I'd like to be optimistic, but as CEE of a 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:03.600 company that's developing a vaccine and anti viral and the 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:07.600 skin test, I'm paid to be pessimistic. So I am 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:11.440 worried about the fall, about whether COVID is becoming seasonal. 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:15.720 I'm worried about the durability of vaccine protection. And I'm 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:18.680 worried about the variants coming back to the United States 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:22.120 from places like India and other places which one of 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:26.440 those three things were easy the most. I think the 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:31.519 vaccine durability is the biggest issue. The m RNA or 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:37.400 the modified RNA vaccines are remarkable and I don't don't 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:40.760 even have words to express how grateful we should be 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:44.480 to the inventors and the developers of these vaccines who 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:48.400 have made such an important contribution. But it is a 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:53.640 brand new technology. We don't know the durability. I think 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:56.960 there's good data now for about six months of protection. 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:01.680 But there are two kinds of immunity, antibody immunity and 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:06.440 T cell immunity, and if, if, if the protection from 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:09.440 these vaccines fades, then that would be more of a 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:13.320 signature of antibody immunity so I think that we are 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:17.080 all waiting to see if vaccinated people will be protected 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:19.160 a year out right, and we've talked with you about 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:23.360 your your vaccine then X right. That is it's all 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:29.399 about eliciting a T cell immunity exactly. We are developing 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:33.560 t X eighteen hundred. It elicits a strong T cell immunity, 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:35.920 and T cell immunity is the kind that can last 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:40.280 for years or decades, and that's usually imparted by a 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:45.520 live virus vaccine like the MMR Measles monster Bella vaccines. 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:49.320 Those are three live virus vaccines given once in childhood. 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:55.080 So we're optimistic. I'm hoping that the m RNA vaccines 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:59.640 will have durical protection, but we just don't know. We 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:03.680 all don't know if can it be just as good revaccination. 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:07.640 I'm just gonna say, can a booster shot though Dr 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:14.360 Letterman basically kind of give us that reassurance and protection, Well, 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:17.120 we just don't know. It's an excellent point. I know that, 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:21.200 um uh, you know, there's been an idea that annual 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:24.359 vaccinations with the mr ANDA vaccines might be good, but 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:30.440 we don't know. The mRNA vaccines are novel because they 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:32.880 avoid the immune system, but we don't know how well 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:37.600 they avoid it, and there's just no evidence to lead 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:42.000 us to have a national policy that's based on annual revaccinations. 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:45.480 I'm hopeful, I'm hopeful they're durable. I'm hopeful they can 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:48.920 be used in re vaccination scenarios, but it's too early 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:51.719 to tell. Dr Letterman. Where are you exactly in the 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:56.120 development of your vaccine. We expect to be in human 0:04:56.160 --> 0:05:02.240 trials early in next year. In we've announced very encouraging 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:05.920 data in monkeys that have been challenged with COVID to 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:10.479 the virus that causes COVID. But we are still developing 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:15.320 a preparation of our vaccine that meets the high standard 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:18.880 to be tested in humans. Our vaccine takes longer to 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:23.760 develop the manufacturing protocols that we expect once it's once 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:26.679 we've been through it the first time. Actually, our cost 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:29.800 of goods, our doses and the rest of it are 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:36.400 probably more suitable for wide deployment, uh than the existing 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:38.640 m RNA vaccine. You said that one thing that concerned 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:40.840 you was durability of the m RNA vaccines. So I'm 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:44.960 wondering about not about durability of your vaccine, but about 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:50.839 resistance that it has to potential variants. Well, the the 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:54.320 T cell vaccines we think will be more robust to 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:58.800 covering the different variants than some of the other vaccines 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:02.240 that are more focused on antibodies. Dr Letterman, we were 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:06.000 we were finishing up talking about your vaccine that you're developed, 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:08.400 that's in development a Tonic Tonics Pharmaceuticals, And I know 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:12.799 because it is a public traded company and because regulatory reasons, 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:15.800 you can't be exact with with dates. But what's a 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:17.719 realistic way for us to think about if it goes 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:21.719 to clinical trials in humans starting next year, when could 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:27.640 it become available for widespread potential emergency use authorization? UM 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:30.119 I think we would take at least a year after 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:33.040 the first clinical studies because you see seen from the 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:37.159 FIS or Moderne experiences, you need large studies to show 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:40.160 the effects. But part of it will be influenced by 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:46.200 how prevalent the infection is, how prevalent COVID is. Hopefully 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:50.680 again hopefully COVID will be less and less prevalent and 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:53.839 then it will take us longer to develop it. But 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:57.800 if there is a big rebound because of seasonality, the 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:01.680 variant or you know, maybe because of the waning of 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:05.400 protection from the existing vaccines, then you know, things could 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:07.599 move more quickly. You know. It's interesting. We have a 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:10.160 story coming up. It's in a Blueberg business Week magazine 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:13.440 and it's specifically taking a look at Cuba and the 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:15.600 work that they have done in vaccines. And Tim and 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:17.560 I were kind of marveling as we came into the 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:21.160 studio today about who knew you know, all of the 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:23.800 work that Cuba is doing in the bio sense bioscience 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:27.200 sector specifically, and they've they've got advanced vaccines that they've 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:30.200 been working on. You know, uh when it comes to 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:32.600 lung cancer and so on. It's actually I think before 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:36.040 FDA approval, it does remind me and we we saw 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:39.480 that certainly with COVID. You know that when you tap 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:42.880 the world, you know, maybe what we can come together 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:46.000 on and ultimately solve. And I do wonder, since this 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:49.320 is your world, how is the world change when it 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:53.760 comes to really working on global solutions global vaccines not 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:56.240 just done something like COVID, but the next virus that's 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:58.200 going to you know, kind of turn the world into 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:01.200 a tailspin or send the world to a talpan or 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:03.840 on some of the diseases and ailments that really plague 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:08.920 our society. Well, I think COVID has brought the world 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:12.800 together in the research community. But even looking at something 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:17.680 like the Fasier vaccine, which is you know, just remarkable. 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:21.440 I mean, the original work started with Drew Weissman and 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:26.800 Catalan Krrico at the University of Pennsylvania. She's American born, 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:30.600 but she's Hungarian. UM and then if you look at 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:36.600 their major partner, bio in Tech, is based in Mainz, Germany. 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:40.840 UM and UH is run largely by a husband and 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:43.720 wife team who are Turkish, and you know, you could 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:46.120 go on and on and on. So I don't know 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:50.240 that science has any borders that you know. Basically these 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:53.040 are well and into people getting together and putting their 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:57.280 best ideas together. So I think that this really is 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:01.319 a global effort, even if the most wrecking noizeable UM 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:05.600 sponsor of it is a global pharmaceutical files are based 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:08.800 in New York City. I think that you know, there 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:11.680 really is a global effort. And um you know, the 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:14.600 the change of information, the way that articles have come 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:18.079 out so quickly, people rushing together. It's been a wonderful 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:23.120 UM community effort. Hey, Dr Letterman, Um, what's the way 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:26.720 that we get to widespread vaccination in the United States. 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:28.720 What's the right conversation to have with people who are 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:31.160 still hesitant to take one of these vaccines that's available. 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:37.840 I wish I knew the answer. I'm hopeful that time 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:41.680 will will be a deciding factor. I think that a 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:44.319 lot of people don't want to be first. They want 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:46.520 to see that other people have gotten it, that you 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:50.079 know that the that the benefits are evident, and things 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:54.320 like that. So hopefully time and information will come through. 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:57.240 I think, Um, you know, it was very difficult to 0:09:57.280 --> 0:09:59.800 have the pandemic at all, but it was also difficult 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:02.600 to of it during an election year. And I think 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:05.720 that now that the messaging to people is much more consistent, 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:09.960 that you know, the vaccines are safe and effective. I 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:14.120 hope slowly people will come through. But there are other 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:17.680 things that will be incentives. For example, the CDC recommendations 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:20.240 saying if you're vaccinated, you don't have to wear a 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:23.400 mask in many places, going back to work, going back 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:26.920 to school. A lot of these places can regulate whether 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:29.880 someone can do something if they're vaccinated or not. All right, 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:32.720 Dr Seth Laderman, thank you so much. Co founder, CEO, 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:36.040 chairman of Tonics Pharmaceuticals on the phone from New Bedford, Massachusetts. 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:38.760 I meager the stock up about sixty percent so far 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:42.240 this year, trading for a dollar thirteen. So just to 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:44.360 kind of give you some perspective in terms of movements, 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:53.160 this is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:57.920 Quick Takes Tim Stinovan on Bloomberg Radio. So you might 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:00.120 recall last week at the Bloomberg Live or to vent 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:02.000 Bloomberg Business Week, we caut up at Jason Lynn, the 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:05.160 director behind a massively successful Fast and Furious franchise. While 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:09.040 the latest installment term out this past weekend called F nine, 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:13.400 opened internationally, most of the tickets sales happening in the 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:15.800 biggest market in the world, China. There was a lot 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:19.640 going on. Well it makes sense given given the status 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:23.000 of reopening in China versus the United States. Exactly, we're 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:26.320 gonna talk about the movie industry. Theaters opening up right 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:28.280 here on Bloomberg Business Week. So let's talk about the 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:30.840 theater industry. Someone who's got a front row seat to 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:33.440 that F nine opening and just what's going on and 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:35.880 great to be talking with him again. Is I'm AXIEO 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:38.160 Richard Gelfon, He joins us on the phone in New 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:40.120 York City, rich and so nice to have you here 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:43.800 with Tim and myself. How are you, Um, I'm great, 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:47.240 and especially great because of what you alluded to with 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:51.320 the opening of F nine weekend. Um. You know, it's 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:54.400 it's been a long cold winter, as you guys are 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:57.120 quite aware, and it's nice to have the good old 0:11:57.120 --> 0:12:01.600 fashioned Hollywood blockbuster back. And I inc. F nine really 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:05.440 opened up like a Hollywood blockbuster. It did hundred sixty 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:09.840 million dollars globally, hundred thirty five million dollars in China. 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:14.720 IMAX's market share was very healthy. It's our biggest opening, 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:18.800 um in you know, since before the pandemic started. So 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:21.680 feeling a lot better than I was a few weeks ago, Carol. 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:23.560 That's a big change. How I mean, how are you 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:25.800 feeling a few weeks ago? And what changed that? Was it? 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:30.800 This opening weekend? Especially globally? You know, probably be more 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:33.240 honest than I should be. This has been one of 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:37.760 the most frustrating periods of the pandemic for me, and 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:40.680 that's because I think the world is really ready to 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:43.400 go back to the movies, and I think there are 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:46.200 a lot of movies that are ready to go, but 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:50.000 I think not every territory in the world is ready 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:53.000 at the same time and the same pace. And the 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:58.079 traditional distribution model would say you open up globally at 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:01.160 one time all over the world, but you know, guess what, 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:04.920 this just isn't the time without works, so that this 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:09.360 time is called for different kinds of models. And as 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:14.880 a result, um, the studios, who mostly were located in Hollywood, 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:18.720 we're looking out their windows and saying the pandemic is 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:22.560 really not doing well here, ignoring the fact that you know, 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:26.280 they've been blockbusters in Japan and China and Korea and 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:30.000 Taiwan for months. So I think kind of we've been 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:32.800 ready in a lot of places, but the movies just 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:35.640 haven't been there. And one of the things that was 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:39.640 really unique about the release of F nine was it 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:43.280 was released in China about five weeks before it's being 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:45.520 released in the rest of the world, which is a 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:48.360 different model. And I think most of the studios have 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:52.880 played it really conservative and said we're not opening anywhere 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:57.400 until we could open everywhere. Um. But fortunately universal you know, 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:00.079 took a risk in doing this, and it opens in 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:03.320 the US in late June, but it really worked. And 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:07.080 I think you need to demonstrate that people want to 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:09.520 go back to the movies, and you need the kind 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:12.520 of numbers that we had in order to get people 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:16.440 a studios comfortable opening in their movies. So I think 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:19.240 this was a pretty big deal. Yeah. Well, what's interesting 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:21.680 is I remember you saying to when you and I 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:25.000 talked um at that Bloomberg Live event. I think it 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:27.280 was back in April. You know how you guys went 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:29.920 into COVID earlier because of China and then came out 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:31.800 of it earlier too because of China, And that how 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:35.040 China in many ways has been a guiding light about 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:37.800 kind of where we're going and how the world is reopening. 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:40.760 Not apples to apples, I understand that, but it has 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:43.000 helped us give us a little bit of kind of 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:47.320 the way forward in terms of how the world maybe reopens. Yeah, 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:50.240 I think that's definitely the case. I think the big 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:54.480 distinguished thing thing between China and other places, though, is 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:58.400 China didn't vaccinate at the level that other places did 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:02.920 and mostly achieved it's kind of feeling of safety and 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:08.080 low results through social contact tracing and other means that 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:11.160 we're not used here in the West. So in a way, 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:14.560 as good as China has been, um, places like North 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:18.040 America could be even better once it really opens up, 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:21.320 because I imagine you guys noticed that the Nick Game 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:25.280 the other night, there were fifteen thousand people, um, you know, 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:28.640 having a great time. And I really feel that it's 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:31.520 going to be like the Roaring twenties and people at 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:34.040 once they get out of the house and you know, 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:37.360 they can go back to what their lives were like before. 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:40.560 I think that's going to happen very quickly, and I 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:43.760 think you know it. As I said, it's happening in Asia, 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:47.520 and there's no reason I think that that won't happen here. Well, 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:50.360 I'm wondering about that specifically here in the US, because 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:55.000 we have seen companies like Disney and Warner Media as 0:15:55.040 --> 0:16:00.800 it has is still called, release theatrical releases to streaming 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:04.040 direct consumer. And I'm wondering if you think that consumers 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:07.840 have been conditioned to enjoy this stuff at home rather 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:10.120 than in a theater, and that might not provide the 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:12.440 incentive for them to get back to what they were 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:14.960 doing before the pandemic because now they've been able to 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:18.080 do it from their couch and not get a babysitter. Yeah. 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:20.760 I mean that's a narrative that I think a lot 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:25.080 of the streaming services are promoting. But I don't really 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:27.800 think it's going to play out that way. I mean, 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:30.760 people were locked in their living rooms, were locked in 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:33.840 their kitchens. So when you're locked in your living room, 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:37.800 you watch movies on your television set. When you locked 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:41.000 in your kitchen, you don't go to restaurants. You eat 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:43.520 in your kitchen when you're allowed to go out. I 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:46.320 mean you look at almost every behavior. Look at what's 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:49.160 gone on with the restaurants in New York and London 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:53.200 and Los Angeles. I mean people weren't condition the only 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:56.680 bringing in food. They were limited by the circumstances to 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:00.960 doing that. And you even look at um Um one 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:05.200 of the recent films, god Zilla Versus Kang that was 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:11.560 released simultaneously by Warner Media um in imax. We sold 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:15.640 out about a thousand shows around the United States when 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:19.120 people could get it for free if they were subscribers 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:22.640 on their TV sets. So I just don't think that's 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:25.200 the way it is. I mean, people go to the movies, 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:31.480 partly for escapism, partly for social reasons, partly for social activity, 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:34.439 probably to get away from their kids, probably to get 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:37.600 away from their parents. You know, everyone has a different reason. 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:41.040 But I don't think they're gonna say, oh, I'd much 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:44.240 rather watch this in my living room with my family, 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:47.359 which is what I've been doing for the last fifteen months. 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:50.040 That's oh g, it's this summer. Can't wait to do 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:54.320 that on Saturday night. I just think I am I 0:17:54.359 --> 0:18:00.680 am being sarcastic, but continue but one second, and sorry Carol, 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:05.280 but it was an interim solution designed for pandemic. And 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:09.120 I don't blame anybody. I mean, if you're Disney, you're Warner, 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:13.240 you know the movie theaters are closed. You've got this 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:16.400 content you paid for, You've got to do something with it. 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:19.359 And by the way, streaming happens to be something that 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:23.000 the stock market likes an awful lot. So you say, oh, 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:27.520 I'll stream, but they know that that's that's made for 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:30.280 a time and a place. And again, I don't want 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:32.320 to make too much of it, but if you look 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:36.240 at the recent results and the and the projections from 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:40.359 the streaming services during the last quarter, as the pandemic 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:43.920 has started to fade. You know, the numbers for streaming 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:46.960 of you know, not kept pace with where they were 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:50.800 in the pandemic. And again that's logical, and people are 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:54.520 still going to stream certain things, but for big blockbuster 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:58.600 movies like IMAX does no one's gonna look forward to 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:01.960 spending Saturday night on the couch with the parents rich. 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:04.600 To be fair, just like you're saying the narrative of 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:07.080 the streaming guys, they're kind of talking their book to 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:09.120 some extent. I think it's safe to say that you're 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:12.160 talking your book about people coming back. But I mean, 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:16.800 what do you then make of all the streaming deals 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:19.840 that are happening right now? We're kind of on, you know, 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:22.240 the edge of our seat, waiting for Amazon to maybe 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:25.520 announce that they are acquiring the MGM. You know, studios 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:30.000 line up in library. Uh. And so you've worked in 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:33.680 mergers and acquisitions. You're an investment, but you understand this world. 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:36.240 Do you think this is just a cycle that runs 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:39.080 out of steam or do you think there's real momentum 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:41.359 Because there's some things that changes, but as a result 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:43.320 of the pandemic that will stay with us. And I 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:45.119 think there's a lot that would say that streaming is 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:48.000 part of that. I think streaming is part of it, 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:50.159 but I think in a different way than it was 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:54.000 during the pandemic. I think for niche movies and movies 0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:57.879 that you know, cost less in a budget and have 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:01.679 to find a specific audience, releasing them direct to streaming 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:05.560 will make sense because the marketing costs are extremely high 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:09.439 to do that reaching your consumer and a niche market 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:12.240 is difficult to find. And I think those things will 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:16.480 continue to stream. Also, almost every studio has come up 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:20.359 now with a forty five day window where they'll they'll 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:24.440 stream forty five days after opening. And I think, if anything, 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:27.360 that's going to make the content more valuable and the 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:32.160 theatrical run more valuable to the studio. Because remember, how 0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:36.280 did HBO get started? How did um um, how did 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:41.240 Netflix get started? They streamed Hollywood movies and those movies 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:44.600 got a lot of exposure, got a brand, got good 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:49.000 word of mouth. I've got brand recognition, built sequels, and 0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:53.080 then people paid a lot to go stream them. Um. 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:56.679 You know, as I'll ask you a question, name five 0:20:56.840 --> 0:21:01.199 stream movies from Netflix last year? Um? You know? Uh. 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:03.880 And by the way, it is a trick question because 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:06.040 I was just in l A and I asked ten 0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:09.840 people that and nobody can name five stream movies during 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:12.680 and that's streaming. When I was growing up, there were 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:15.880 TV movies and then there were real movies. I think 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:18.840 now there's going to be real movies and streaming movies. 0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:21.400 But do theaters have to do something rich to kind 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:23.720 of bring everybody back? Like listen, I love that the 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:26.439 seat's got more comfy, that I can stretch out like 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:28.919 that has it's a reason for me to go to theaters. 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:31.360 I know people who it's become a real date night 0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:33.520 where they're in a little cocoon and there's drinks and 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:36.199 their food and it's like an experience. But you know, 0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:38.679 I don't know if that's just the minority or do 0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:42.000 the majority wants something wrong? You know more that you 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:45.600 know experience experiential aspect of it. Does it have to 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:49.240 be amped up? Yeah? I think it does. And I 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:52.400 think that's why IMAX is doing really well. So if 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:56.040 you look at our results in Asia, our market share 0:21:56.119 --> 0:22:00.560 has gone up in virtually every country post pandemic because 0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:03.119 I think you know, people who have been watching in 0:22:03.160 --> 0:22:07.240 their living rooms and watching their televisions, they when they leave, 0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:10.200 they want to do something really special. So I think, 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:13.639 you know, that's why IMAX has been very successful over 0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:15.800 the last number of years, and that's why I think 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:20.160 will be even more successful during this because filmmakers make 0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:23.840 these big films to be seen on the big screen 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:26.960 and to be heard with the big sound. And UM, 0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:30.320 you know, I think you're completely right, and um you know, 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:33.160 God knows. I hope you're even more and more right 0:22:33.160 --> 0:22:36.120 because we'll be a beneficiary of that trend. Hey, Rich 0:22:36.400 --> 0:22:40.240 I'm wondering how your business changes, how the economics of 0:22:40.320 --> 0:22:44.760 IMAX changes when you have more consolidation within the studios 0:22:44.800 --> 0:22:49.760 when Discovery and uh Warner Media are tied up. If 0:22:49.800 --> 0:22:52.399 Amazon and MGM studios are tied up, are they going 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:56.440 to charge you more? No, I don't. You have to 0:22:56.480 --> 0:23:00.240 look on in a very individual basis. So Discovering made 0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:04.240 unscripted content and none of that really went into the 0:23:04.240 --> 0:23:08.760 theatrical ecosystem. So by merging with Warner you're not really 0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:12.280 losing the studio. You're getting Actually, I think a more 0:23:12.680 --> 0:23:16.639 pro theatrical management team behind one of the best studios 0:23:16.680 --> 0:23:20.000