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Speaker 1: From the dust Trolle Podcast Network. This is movie Mike

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Speaker 1: some movie Podcason.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome back to movie Mike's movie podcast. I

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Speaker 2: am your host, Movie Mike. We've done it, folks. The

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Speaker 2: end of another year. Twenty twenty five is in the books.

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Speaker 2: What a year for movies. About to get into my

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Speaker 2: top five interviews of the year. But before we do that,

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Speaker 2: let's look back. It's now been six years of doing

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Speaker 2: this podcast. Started to back December twenty nineteen, and what

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Speaker 2: a way we've come. I remember being so nervous to

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Speaker 2: sit down to record my first episode.

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Speaker 3: I did so much prep.

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Speaker 2: Probably sounded like I was talking a mile a minute

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Speaker 2: on that first episode. At times I still do that.

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Speaker 2: I was on an interview, speaking of interviews I've done

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Speaker 2: this year. Somebody was like, man, you are talking so

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Speaker 2: fast in this and I don't realize I'm doing it,

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Speaker 2: but I get so excited and so behind the scenes

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Speaker 2: on that. I do a lot of press junkets where

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Speaker 2: I go in and there are a bunch of other

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Speaker 2: people in this zoom waiting room, all waiting in line

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Speaker 2: to go and talk to these people who are probably

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Speaker 2: talking to at least when I do them two hours worth.

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Speaker 3: Of people or so.

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Speaker 2: So when you get in there, you only have five sometimes,

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Speaker 2: if you're lucky, ten minutes with him, and I'm very

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Speaker 2: appreciative of that time I do get with him, but

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Speaker 2: I know I have to go in. I have to

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Speaker 2: establish a quick who I am and what I want

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Speaker 2: to get out of it is some good stuff for

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Speaker 2: you guys. And when I only have five minutes, I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I got to waste very little time getting this question

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Speaker 2: out and just rocket. But I remember that person being like, man,

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Speaker 2: you are talking so fast, and that flashed me back

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Speaker 2: to when I first started this podcast, where I felt

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Speaker 2: I just needed to get so much information. And I

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Speaker 2: think over the years, if you've been here from the beginning,

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Speaker 2: hopefully you've heard me get better at this. And I

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Speaker 2: think a lot of that is me just caring less

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Speaker 2: as far as being so worried about how people are

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Speaker 2: going to judge me, which I cared a lot about

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Speaker 2: early on. But now I know, if you've been here

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Speaker 2: for this amount of time, you are rocking with me.

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Speaker 2: You're part of the movie crew. So thank you for that.

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Speaker 2: It's been a really interesting six years of doing a podcast.

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Speaker 2: Looking back right before twenty nineteen, I thought, man, movies

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Speaker 2: are gonna be this good forever. That was the last

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Speaker 2: really great year in movies, and then boom twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: everything shut down. And to think I started this podcast

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Speaker 2: right before movies were taken away from us. I still

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Speaker 2: remember that last movie I went to go see March

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Speaker 2: of twenty twenty onward, pretty mid Pixar movie, but that

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Speaker 2: was the last thing I ever experienced, and then had

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Speaker 2: to shift how I did this podcast. So a lot

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Speaker 2: of that growth was for me not having new movies

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Speaker 2: to talk about and learning how to do these movie

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Speaker 2: history episodes. And hopefully you enjoy the format that I

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Speaker 2: really feel works the best because we go past present

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Speaker 2: in future a lot of movie history in that early

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Speaker 2: segment depending on what it is, or we recap all

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Speaker 2: the movies we've seen in the last month, and then

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Speaker 2: we had the as with the movie review and of

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Speaker 2: course the future with the trailer park.

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Speaker 3: So hopefully you enjoy that.

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Speaker 2: If you think maybe we should change things up a

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Speaker 2: little bit, or some things you want to hear on

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Speaker 2: the podcast, let me know. I always want to know

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Speaker 2: what you want to hear, because that's why I do

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Speaker 2: this show, So hit me up. On any socials or

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Speaker 2: the old school way moviemke d at gmail dot com.

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Speaker 2: But I just wanted to say, because I really mean

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Speaker 2: it to anybody who makes this podcast a part of

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Speaker 2: your week, no matter when you listen, if you let

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Speaker 2: episodes build up and then run through them, or if

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Speaker 2: you go back every single Monday on the feed and

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Speaker 2: hit play, I appreciate you. And I do these interviews

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Speaker 2: because I want to learn more about the things that

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Speaker 2: I talk about every single week, because a lot of

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Speaker 2: it is just my perceptions of things and my feelings

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Speaker 2: on things. But I enjoy actually getting to talk to

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Speaker 2: the people who make this art that we consume. I

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Speaker 2: love talking to directors because I believe they are the

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Speaker 2: next real rock stars that are going to be so

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Speaker 2: essential in the era of movie making that we are

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Speaker 2: going into with all these things with AI and all

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Speaker 2: these companies being fought in this world of uncertainty where

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Speaker 2: I feel like celebrity status isn't what it used to be,

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Speaker 2: that just because you have a big name doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: that movie is going to do well. I think where

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Speaker 2: the industry is really going to evolve is with having

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Speaker 2: visionaries who know how to make a movie that is

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Speaker 2: a spectacle and know how to create something, whether it's

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Speaker 2: a moment, whether it's a story, whether it's a character

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Speaker 2: that people are really going to connect with. I think

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Speaker 2: it takes a great director now to really drive home

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Speaker 2: a great box office hit that is significant and noteworthy.

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Speaker 2: Aside from that, the movies that are going to do

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Speaker 2: well are big animated movies, which if you look at

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Speaker 2: the last few movies this year to earn over a

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Speaker 2: billion dollars, they've all been animated movies.

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Speaker 3: So you either have to have.

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Speaker 2: A great director, and oftentimes when you look at your

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Speaker 2: favorite movies from the year, it is going to be

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Speaker 2: movies with a really great director. So it's either that

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Speaker 2: or you have an animated movie, which I love as well.

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Speaker 2: But that is why a lot of the times when

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Speaker 2: I do these end of the year episodes, it's conversations

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Speaker 2: with directors. But let's get into the list now. At

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Speaker 2: number five, not a director Robert England aka Freddy Krueger,

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Speaker 2: who I did get to talk to for the first

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Speaker 2: time last year, and I will never pass on an

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Speaker 2: opportunity to talk to Robert England because even though he

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Speaker 2: has been living with this character for decades now, he

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Speaker 2: is still so passionate about it and appreciates everybody who

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Speaker 2: tracks him down on the street to get a selfie

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Speaker 2: with him because they love a Nightmare on Elm Street.

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Speaker 2: And he just talks about these movies still so passionately,

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Speaker 2: which somebody like him could be sick of this and

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Speaker 2: not want to talk about a movie he made back

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Speaker 2: in the eighties. What else can you talk talk about?

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Speaker 2: But every time I've talked to him, he's been so

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Speaker 2: warm and generous with his time. He always gives great

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Speaker 2: insight to the making of those movies. So at number five,

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Speaker 2: I have Robert England ready. Makeup took about four hours

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Speaker 2: each day. I wonder, what did you listen to while

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Speaker 2: you were sitting in the chair? Did you get like

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Speaker 2: music going to hype you up?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 3: What did you do?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 4: You know, when we began the series, I wasn't the

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Speaker 4: star of the series yet. I was just the guy

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Speaker 4: under pounds of foam latex and colostomy bag glue. So

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Speaker 4: I had to surrender to my makeup men. And so

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Speaker 4: that was David Miller in the in the early years,

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Speaker 4: and then Kevin Jaeger, the great Kevin Jeger, and then

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Speaker 4: the KNB crew, who now of course have done you know,

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Speaker 4: have oscars for Chronicles of Narnia and created Walking Dead

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Speaker 4: many other things. So I was sort of I had

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Speaker 4: to suffer a lot of heavy metal in those early days.

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Speaker 4: Those guys raw headbangers, So there was a lot of

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Speaker 4: heavy metal in the makeup trailer.

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Speaker 2: Did that help you at all to get into character

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Speaker 2: during that process, like the heavy metal going Is that

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Speaker 2: when you kind of start to like, okay, I'm sinking

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Speaker 2: into this character now, and then you're immediately able to

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Speaker 2: film right after that, or there's some other process that

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Speaker 2: psyching yourself up.

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Speaker 4: No, you know, I think that the aggravation of the cold,

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Speaker 4: the cold glue in the morning on my face, and

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Speaker 4: the time you know, spent in the makeup chair and

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Speaker 4: getting poked with those old makeup brushes that had become

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Speaker 4: kind of crusty over the weeks, you know, of use.

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Speaker 4: Those guys were cheap skates, you know, they would get

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Speaker 4: to like pull a tooth to get a new brush.

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Speaker 4: So when they touched me up, they I was getting

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Speaker 4: poked a lot, and you know you kind of feel that,

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Speaker 4: especially around the eyes. So I wasn't in the best

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Speaker 4: of mood, and so that would make me slightly profane,

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Speaker 4: and I would tease those guys or threaten to spit

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Speaker 4: in their coffee, things like that. And I could see

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Speaker 4: myself all the time in the mirror because we were

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Speaker 4: using a big makeup mirror, and I would see myself

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Speaker 4: in the mirror, and sometimes I would slip into a

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Speaker 4: voice that I would eventually settle on as Freddy's voice,

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Speaker 4: you know, you know.

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Speaker 3: Like damn it, Kevin or or David, get that brush.

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Speaker 4: Out of my face. And it just worked, and I

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Speaker 4: knew that that I could live in that voice. You

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Speaker 4: have to remember back in those days and on all

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Speaker 4: the films, I didn't have a lot of dialogue every day,

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Speaker 4: maybe one or two lines a day until later on.

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Speaker 4: You know, Freddie got more verbose as the as the

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Speaker 4: franchise went on, and I did some narration in parts

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Speaker 4: in Freddie versus Jason. But that's sort of how I

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Speaker 4: found Freddy in the makeup chair, you know. And then

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Speaker 4: that began back with David Miller at his studio out

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Speaker 4: in the San Fernando Valley on the original one. You know,

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Speaker 4: I really sort of found the voice there in those

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Speaker 4: hours of experimenting with David Miller and creating the makeup.

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Speaker 2: Looking back on the movies, I realized how physical the

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Speaker 2: role of Freddy was. Was that kind of surprising to

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Speaker 2: you how physical it actually was to become Freddy Krueger.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, I was an athlete, you know, I

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Speaker 4: surfed all my life. I surfed it well into my sixties.

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Speaker 4: And I'd been a gymnast in middle school, and I'd

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Speaker 4: been on the swimming team, you know, in high school

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Speaker 4: and lettered, and so i was an athletic actor and

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Speaker 4: I'd used a lot of those skills in the theater

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Speaker 4: as well. But with Freddie, what was fun was when

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Speaker 4: I had that makeup on, it sort of made me

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Speaker 4: more or less inhibited, and I was able to kind

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Speaker 4: of dance him a little more and move move him

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Speaker 4: differently than I would move as Robert England without makeup.

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Speaker 4: I wasn't afraid to explore the physicality of the care

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Speaker 4: the stunts. I just did as many of them as

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Speaker 4: I could. That's just sort of a you know, a

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Speaker 4: misguided actors macho that we all succumb to on the set,

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Speaker 4: you know, where we try to do as much as

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Speaker 4: we can. And you know, when when I when there

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Speaker 4: were big fire stunts. That's not me. I did some

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Speaker 4: fire stunts, but the big ones isn't me. And when

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Speaker 4: you see Freddie flying through the air on fire and

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Speaker 4: things like that, that's not me. But you know, you

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Speaker 4: know I did a lot of my stuff, you know,

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Speaker 4: I you know I did, and you know, everything from

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Speaker 4: fire stunts to underwater stuff. So uh, it was fun,

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Speaker 4: you know, to have a little bit of that legacy

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Speaker 4: that I could bring up, you know, and during happy

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Speaker 4: hours somewhere for bragging Wace.

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Speaker 3: But thank you so much for the time, Robert. This

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Speaker 3: is awesome, all right, thank you.

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Speaker 1: I'm by Mike.

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Speaker 3: At number four.

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Speaker 2: I have the cast of Hell of a Summer that

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Speaker 2: include Fin wolf Hard, who you would know from Strangers things,

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Speaker 2: which at the time of recording this, I cannot wait

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Speaker 2: until those episodes drop. Maybe I've already seen it this

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Speaker 2: point when you're hearing this, and oh man, I cannot

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Speaker 2: wait for the ending of that. He co directed it

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Speaker 2: with Billy Burke, who was also in the movie, and

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Speaker 2: Fred Heckinger is in it, who was also in gladyat

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Speaker 2: or two earlier this year sat down with them at

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Speaker 2: the Bell Court Theater here in Nashville to talk about

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Speaker 2: how they made this movie. It is available to watch

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Speaker 2: on Hulu, so let's get into it now. The cast

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Speaker 2: of Hell of a Summer. I think the thing to

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Speaker 2: me that I really stuck out about this movie that

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Speaker 2: I don't see a whole lot now is a good

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Speaker 2: quotable movie. Like I found myself thinking, like I started

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Speaker 2: thinking of whenever your character is kind of like sad

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Speaker 2: that he's not the one being killed because he's like, no,

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Speaker 2: it's probably just killing at random, right, So how did

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Speaker 2: that go? From writing everything and then seeing it translate

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Speaker 2: on screen? Like how is this still funny? That's a

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Speaker 2: good question, goes It's still funny because you write it

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Speaker 2: and then you're totally directing it, and then you're seeing

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Speaker 2: all the edits, and then you're thinking, like now that

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Speaker 2: people are seeing it, like how can you think like

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Speaker 2: is this even funny tony to us everybody else?

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Speaker 5: I mean, it's a good question, and you just have

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Speaker 5: to trust that it was funny to you. And like obviously,

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Speaker 5: when you see a joke a million times, it doesn't

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Speaker 5: make you laugh every single time. So sometimes you have

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Speaker 5: that instinct like can I push this further? Do I

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Speaker 5: try to make this funny? To me every time I'm

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Speaker 5: watching it. But in my opinion, it's kind of a

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Speaker 5: dangerous game to be playing, where it's like, if this

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Speaker 5: really made us laugh as we're writing it, and we

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Speaker 5: feel like this is the most sort of most grounded

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Speaker 5: version of this performance, the read of this line that

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Speaker 5: we think worked best, we have to trust it. And

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Speaker 5: then as we screen it for people and get other

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Speaker 5: eyes on it, it's really helpful to see sort of

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Speaker 5: what they're laughing at. And I'd say more often than not,

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Speaker 5: the stuff that we thought was the funniest, like our

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Speaker 5: instincts were right, So I don't know, it's funny, Like

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Speaker 5: I try not even to think about it as funny

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Speaker 5: all the time.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and the edit, I mean yeah, And then in

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Speaker 6: the production side of it, we were just talking about

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Speaker 6: that the other night, where you this the script that

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Speaker 6: these is real. It was so it was so funny

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Speaker 6: and in such a grounded, character driven way, and there

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Speaker 6: was you know, just every scene is quite intentional in

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Speaker 6: that sense, and there is a thing once you start

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Speaker 6: doing the scenes you kind of have to everyone who's

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Speaker 6: in it is also so funny, and I feel like

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Speaker 6: we would play and explore, but at the end of

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Speaker 6: the day, Like the movie ends up being kind of

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Speaker 6: like ninety five percent or something of the of the

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Speaker 6: actual script from the get go. So there is a

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Speaker 6: sort of trust element that Billy's talking about that I

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Speaker 6: think maybe you're asking about in terms of if we

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Speaker 6: found this funny at the outset, like it, you know,

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Speaker 6: it won't always be the shiny thing, but focus on it, Yeah,

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Speaker 6: because it really is. It is the intentional thing here.

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Speaker 2: I love what you said about the movie being sell

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Speaker 2: character driven, because I think that's also what set out

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Speaker 2: to me, is like I could buy into everybody's personalities

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Speaker 2: and I know how Jason is going to react to

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Speaker 2: something because he's a guy who loves his job. Like

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Speaker 2: that's kind of what I took away from this, Like

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Speaker 2: this is somebody who just wants to do his job

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Speaker 2: to the best of visibility, and that is what he's

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Speaker 2: kind of here to do. And then you have your

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Speaker 2: character Bobby, who's just like, I gotta be good looking

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Speaker 2: to these guys. So what's the how do you write

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Speaker 2: really well rounded characters?

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Speaker 5: You write every character is if you're gonna play them

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Speaker 5: in the movie.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 3: So is this movie a lot of like what you

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Speaker 3: guys are like in real life a little bit.

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Speaker 8: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I like to think that we're a little more self

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Speaker 5: aware than our characters, and that's sort of why we're

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Speaker 5: able to make fun of certain aspects of our personality.

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Speaker 5: But I mean there's definitely I would say that Finn

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Speaker 5: and I when we were just sort of joking around,

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Speaker 5: would fall into these caricatures of ourselves, which i'd say

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Speaker 5: sort of became Bobby and Chris, and like it's a

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Speaker 5: send up of our dynamic and sort of our own

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Speaker 5: personal I don't know, I don't want to say like

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Speaker 5: insecurities or something, but like there's elements of Bobby for

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Speaker 5: sure that come from my own life that I just

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Speaker 5: find funny and like I'm not fully committed to, but

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Speaker 5: the fact that I can very easily think like that

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Speaker 5: is concerning to me. Like it's too little, too easy

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Speaker 5: to fall into that sort of mindset. But then I'm

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Speaker 5: not even actually joking about the like writing every character,

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Speaker 5: like writing every characters if you'd play it, And I

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Speaker 5: think that's thing helpful about being an actor and a writer.

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Speaker 5: As we were writing versions of the script, it's like

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Speaker 5: we would do a pass with each character in mind,

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Speaker 5: being like yeah, I were to be sent this character,

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Speaker 5: what would excite me most about playing this part? What

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Speaker 5: would I want to see? And then we'd try to

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Speaker 5: add that so every character sort of felt fleshed out

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Speaker 5: and had something real and sort of had like a

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Speaker 5: life behind them, even if they're a character who gets

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Speaker 5: killed off very quickly. So it was kind of like

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Speaker 5: a funny, soft way of being like.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, I think it's also just like, you know, just

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Speaker 9: thinking about you know that there's a lot of young

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Speaker 9: actors out there, and ninety nine percent of stuff that

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Speaker 9: gets sent out just like I don't know, just doesn't

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Speaker 9: feel right or you know, it doesn't feel like it

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Speaker 9: has you know that the character that's you auditioned for

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Speaker 9: maybe had everything that you want or you know, the

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Speaker 9: arc that you want. And it was one of those

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Speaker 9: things where we were kind of approaching it from an

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Speaker 9: actor's perspective.

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Speaker 2: And then coming from the horror element of the movie,

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Speaker 2: which I love. What were some of those movies that

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Speaker 2: you went back and studied and thought, I want to

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Speaker 2: take a little from this movie. I want to take

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Speaker 2: a little from that movie and put it into this.

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Speaker 5: We watched the thing, We watched a lot of the

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Speaker 5: John Carpenter films, just because of the blocking of those

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Speaker 5: films in the way that he sort of is able

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Speaker 5: to block and represent group dynamics and like the thing

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Speaker 5: specifically this idea of group that sort of splintering, splintering

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Speaker 5: and turning against each other. So that was a reference

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Speaker 5: the First Halloween obviously, but a lot, like most of

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Speaker 5: our sort of stylistic references were from comedy movies or

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Speaker 5: from movies that that weren't in the horror space. Do

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Speaker 5: you have any that you're.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean, you know, like Sean of the Dead

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Speaker 9: was a huge one that we looked at. And then

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Speaker 9: you know, as far as even just like visual visual stuff,

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Speaker 9: I mean we looked a lot about you know.

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Speaker 1: At like uh uh the Howling or.

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Speaker 9: Like uh like Dean Kundy's stuff. It was like the

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Speaker 9: DP I guess of the eighties and even just like

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Speaker 9: even though nut like it is nothing like any that's

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Speaker 9: like we would just watch like movies that we loved

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Speaker 9: and like grew up watching and like loved the look

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Speaker 9: of and you know, for whatever reason, and this like

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Speaker 9: I watched Indiana Jones in the Last Crusade like five times,

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Speaker 9: like in the year that we wrote this and it

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Speaker 9: has nothing to do with the movie in the slightest,

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Speaker 9: but like, I don't know, there's some kind of adventure

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Speaker 9: in that movie that I just love so much, and

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Speaker 9: and in that era as well, like late eighties, early nineties,

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Speaker 9: and then you know, yeah Scream obviously, so like a

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Speaker 9: lot of different influences coming from kind of all angles.

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Speaker 9: A lot of like Coen Brothers stuff too, raising Arizona

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Speaker 9: One too. But then yeah, like even with movies like that,

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Speaker 9: there's they're like visually they're so energetic with Debt or

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Speaker 9: Seanda the Dead, and we didn't want that this movie

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Speaker 9: to feel like that. So it was like, what can

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Speaker 9: we chase styles these without feeling like we're doing those

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Speaker 9: movies because it didn't feel right for the script.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, Fred, what did you love most about playing Jason?

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Speaker 2: Because he's a character who's so endearing you root for

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Speaker 2: him the entire time, and I feel like you really

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Speaker 2: brought that role.

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Speaker 3: Tolive, what did you love about that role?

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Speaker 6: I really loved how two wrote him. I loved that

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Speaker 6: in this story, every single character kind of once the

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Speaker 6: killing starts in the movie, they don't like just magically

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Speaker 6: transform into different heroic people. They can only react and

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Speaker 6: figure out their their issues by being themselves and their

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Speaker 6: most kind of eccentric and uh sometimes stubborn ways. Uh

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Speaker 6: And so I yeah, I just I think some like

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Speaker 6: you play people that you find also genuinely inspiring. Like

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Speaker 6: he's someone who is uh, he's like gets he's in

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Speaker 6: on the he gets that people. He gets that he

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Speaker 6: can be a joke to people, but also is funny

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Speaker 6: himself and also not a joke to himself at the

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Speaker 6: same time. And I felt that those things all together

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Speaker 6: you meant something to me and h and felt, Yeah,

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Speaker 6: resonent of a lot of people I know and how

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Speaker 6: I feel sometimes. So I really liked that call. I

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Speaker 6: liked that he was like in on the joke but

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Speaker 6: also not at the same time. I thought that that

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Speaker 6: was like a yeah, there's there's so there's so many

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Speaker 6: qualities to him that I really admire and loved playing.

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Speaker 2: I have one final question for you, guys, what did

401
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Speaker 2: it feel whenever you first started to have success, Because Finn,

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Speaker 2: I remember you when you were in pop music videos,

403
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Speaker 2: like I'm huge into punk rock, Canadian punk rock, and

404
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Speaker 2: I remember seeing you in those way back then.

405
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Speaker 3: Like, what does it feel when you just.

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Speaker 2: Start like getting those first roles, getting those first projects,

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Speaker 2: and you just feel like this actually might be a

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Speaker 2: reality my dream.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, we got to talk about Canadian punk rock after this,

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Speaker 9: but I would say, I mean that's kind of I

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Speaker 9: was just happy doing that, like even as like a

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Speaker 9: little kid, being able to be a part of these

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Speaker 9: cool indie projects like music videos for cool bands that

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Speaker 9: I loved and student films, and like I just loved

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Speaker 9: doing it and being on set and it just kind

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Speaker 9: of snowballed and all those sets inspired me to direct

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Speaker 9: and want to direct. And I feel like, you know,

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Speaker 9: we made this film all together and specifically when me

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Speaker 9: and Billy started writing it, and like that feeling. Even

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Speaker 9: though we made it, you know, with with like a

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Speaker 9: bigger crew and it wasn't like a student film, it

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Speaker 9: still had that energy, Like it still had that sort

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Speaker 9: of vibe that I could feel when I was that

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Speaker 9: young on set and just looking at all these amazing

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Speaker 9: kind of young artists like starting their careers and me,

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Speaker 9: that's what I'm always chasing. And sometimes you find it

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Speaker 9: in every I feel like you find it in every

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Speaker 9: set in some way. So but it was definitely felt great,

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Speaker 9: Like I loved doing all those videos.

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Speaker 2: Well, this has been great. It's also confirmed my feeling

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Speaker 2: that you guys are all like real friends in real life,

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Speaker 2: because that comes across in the movie. So I hope

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Speaker 2: everybody goes to see it and can feel that as well.

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Speaker 3: Thanks so much, Thanks for the time, guys.

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Speaker 2: At number three, I had the cast of The Ballot

436
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Speaker 2: of Wallace Island, which I believe is one of the

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Speaker 2: most underrated movies of the year. And I'm not just

438
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 2: saying that because they did this interview with me, but

439
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,000
Speaker 2: Tom Bazden and Tim Key are so great together. And

440
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,720
Speaker 2: the movie is about Tim Key's character, who is a

441
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 2: guy who wins the lottery uses his money to reunite

442
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,720
Speaker 2: his favorite folk band to come out to his island

443
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 2: and play a private concert for just him, nobody else,

444
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 2: just him and Carrie Mulligan is the other member of

445
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,359
Speaker 2: the indie folk duo. They haven't talked in a really

446
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,879
Speaker 2: long time, and this is them reuniting to make a

447
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,240
Speaker 2: little bit of money. There's a lot of drama, there's

448
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 2: some heartfelt moments, there's some comedic moments, there's music.

449
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,880
Speaker 3: It has all the things that I look for.

450
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 2: In a small independent picture that felt like it was

451
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:15,800
Speaker 2: just made to put a smile on your face and

452
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,199
Speaker 2: maybe a couple of tears depending on your level of emotion.

453
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,879
Speaker 2: But let's get into this one. The cast of The

454
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:23,439
Speaker 2: Ballad of Wallace Island.

455
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 3: Does it feel.

456
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 2: Weird to you guys that I feel like I know

457
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 2: each of you after watching this movie?

458
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,439
Speaker 10: I think that's terrible because my character is quite specific.

459
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:38,920
Speaker 2: How much how much of yourself did you put into

460
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:40,440
Speaker 2: each of your characters at all?

461
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 10: Well, I'm Zara, but I think.

462
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,920
Speaker 11: There's a huge amount of Tim and Charles and there's

463
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,680
Speaker 11: a fair bit of me and how I would say.

464
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 10: He was asked this last night and I thought we

465
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:55,439
Speaker 10: haven't talked about this, but that was an incredible insight

466
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,359
Speaker 10: when he said that his character is seventeen year old

467
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 10: himself and my character is his mother at the time.

468
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:04,679
Speaker 10: And I think it's I know his mother, love his

469
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 10: mother's pieces, but yeah, I can see there's a lot

470
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:07,919
Speaker 10: of his mother in my character.

471
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 2: You guys both have a background in comedy, which I

472
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 2: have toured doing stand up. The thing about doing stand

473
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 2: up is you get an immediate reaction. You know, if

474
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 2: a joke is good or not based on how the

475
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 2: audience responds. When you put out a movie.

476
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 3: What is that like?

477
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,199
Speaker 2: Now, when the movie's coming out, people are starting to

478
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 2: watch it, you're starting to hear rumblings of reviews. How

479
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,680
Speaker 2: is that different from that instant comedy approach.

480
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 10: It's totally different and kind of mind blowing. We did

481
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,879
Speaker 10: the first time we saw the film was in sun Dance,

482
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 10: and I think with any kind of new stand up show,

483
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 10: it just starts as a tiny acorn in front of

484
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 10: thirty or forty people and gradually grows, and you gradually

485
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,640
Speaker 10: work out what works and what doesn't and improve it

486
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 10: and get it better and better. By the end of it,

487
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 10: you might be playing to quite a big room, but

488
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 10: with complete assurance that everything sort of works. Whereas with

489
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,160
Speaker 10: this we didn't have any screenings at all. We didn't

490
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,680
Speaker 10: know what exactly we had. We knew we liked it,

491
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,400
Speaker 10: but we didn't know, you know, exactly how much would

492
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 10: sort of grow to be more affectionate of our own movie.

493
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 10: It's the first time we saw it was in front

494
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 10: of fourteen hundred people, and it's kind of petrifying because

495
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 10: you know, if you could be city, it could be

496
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,880
Speaker 10: a very long hour and a half. You know you're

497
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 10: waiting in that first ninety seconds to see whether this

498
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 10: movie can create any kind of a connection with an audience.

499
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 10: You hope it will, but yeah, that is the difference.

500
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 10: There's no you get everything all at once, right at

501
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 10: the end, when all of the work has been done

502
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,479
Speaker 10: and you're just sort of praying that people will like it.

503
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,679
Speaker 2: And how does that feel watching yourself back for the

504
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 2: first time at Sunday and seeing like, oh, like that's

505
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 2: my performance. I'm seeing people reacting here like, are is

506
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 2: this emotion going to come across?

507
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 11: I mean it's yeah, it's really exciting, and I mean

508
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:57,919
Speaker 11: I just found it very moving when I was watching it.

509
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 7: Sunnames. I don't like watching stuff that I men very much.

510
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,640
Speaker 10: If you see his body of work, isn't that weird?

511
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: Though?

512
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 2: In the creative space where it almost feels weird to

513
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 2: take in your own work, something you work so hard

514
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 2: on well, and you're like, if I sit around listening

515
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 2: to my own jokes or watching my own movies, it

516
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:17,200
Speaker 2: feels like I'm self absorbed here.

517
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:18,199
Speaker 1: But it's like I'm proud of it.

518
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 7: But I don't know if it's self absorption.

519
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 11: As much as you just want to sort of you

520
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 11: just want to focus on the thing that you're working on.

521
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:25,400
Speaker 11: In a way, and once you've done it and you've

522
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 11: finished it, it's lovely to talk about it, and it's

523
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 11: lovely to sort of see people enjoying it. But in

524
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 11: a way, it can be quite torturous to watch stuff

525
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 11: and go, oh, that could have been a bit better,

526
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 11: or I could have done that there, or I could

527
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 11: have you know. And I think that's what's funny about

528
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 11: when we watch the film now, because we've both come

529
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 11: from comedy, I think it's actually a really good thing

530
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 11: that we didn't watch it with audiences at a point

531
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 11: where we had the chance to go back into the edit,

532
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 11: because I think we'd have put some jokes back in.

533
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 7: It's the truth.

534
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 11: I think when you watch it with an audience and

535
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 11: they start laughing, you go, oh, they would have loved

536
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 11: that joke, and they would have loved that joke that

537
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,360
Speaker 11: we can't, and you forget that Actually, what you're doing

538
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 11: is you're crafting a store that's got to be sort

539
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,120
Speaker 11: of coherent, and it's got to have a certain pace

540
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:04,919
Speaker 11: and rhythm to it. And if you start cramming it

541
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 11: with jokes, because you can tell that they audiers like

542
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 11: certain jokes you then you unbalanced the whole thing. So actually,

543
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 11: I'm very glad that we didn't get the chance to

544
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 11: fiddle with the film after people had seen it.

545
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 10: We might have been quite greedy and self sabotaging. But

546
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 10: our director is very he's got a very good eye

547
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,920
Speaker 10: for it and a very good he's more, he's wiser

548
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 10: than us and sort of knows that actually, if we

549
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,479
Speaker 10: get to a certain point in the movie by you know,

550
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 10: eighteen minutes, then that would just be much much better

551
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 10: for the movie. And so it doesn't help if us

552
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 10: two were saying it'd be great to have a decent

553
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 10: joke about a vacuum cleaner after five minutes.

554
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 2: So going in like the filming process, talking about like,

555
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,120
Speaker 2: oh we would have changed some things. Was everything that's

556
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 2: in the movie exactly what was on the page?

557
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 10: No?

558
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 11: No, But but you know, a fair bit of it.

559
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,679
Speaker 11: I think there's obviously, you know, you can tell watching it.

560
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,199
Speaker 11: I think that there is a fair of improv particularly

561
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 11: in that first act between Herb and Charles. You know,

562
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 11: there's scenes where they go quite loose and they and

563
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 11: we and we sort of play around a bit. But

564
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 11: a lot of it is pretty you know, it's pretty

565
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 11: tightly written, and we wanted to kind of we wanted

566
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 11: to be able to sort of drive the story on

567
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 11: at certain times in the film and didn't want it

568
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 11: to feel loose at all.

569
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 7: So you know, in the edit you're.

570
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 11: Kind of trying to calibrate when when you want little

571
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 11: periods that feel quite meandering and feel quite characterful, but

572
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 11: nothing's much is happening, and periods when suddenly you go

573
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 11: through the gears and a lot happens in the space

574
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 11: of five or ten minutes.

575
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 10: I'd say most of the improv is. A lot of

576
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 10: the improv is instead of a little interaction that's two

577
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 10: lines long, those lines might just get chopped into five

578
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 10: bits and just happen really really quickly, like more and more,

579
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 10: like what a conversation would be like. So you get

580
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 10: I think, yeah, if it was written like that, it

581
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 10: would be so weird on the page. I think, so

582
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,199
Speaker 10: we know exactly what we want to say, and then

583
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 10: after we've done it a couple of takes, it then

584
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 10: becomes a little bit more detailed.

585
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 7: I think that's true.

586
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 11: I think I think it's it's like a blueprint for

587
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:07,679
Speaker 11: us that we stick to pretty closely.

588
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 7: But we couldn't.

589
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 11: Other actors couldn't do it because it's not like we

590
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 11: say the exact words as they're written, because it just

591
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 11: wouldn't kind of feel right.

592
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 10: But then when the other actors come in, they can

593
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 10: do it because that was really good. It's not like

594
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 10: Carry mulligan is kind of going, how on earth are

595
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:24,919
Speaker 10: you doing this?

596
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 3: That brings me to my next question.

597
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 2: With the scenes with Carrie and you figuring out the songs,

598
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 2: you know, rewriting after all this time, how much of

599
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 2: that was actually you two learning those songs for the

600
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 2: first time.

601
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 7: I mean, you're very perceptive, like.

602
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 10: It hadn't you prepared for that scene?

603
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 7: We hadn't. We hadn't had a lot of time.

604
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 11: The mad thing was that that Carrie turned up the

605
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 11: evening before she started shooting, and she brought her baby,

606
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 11: who was a few weeks old, maybe seven eight weeks on,

607
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 11: and you know, and as soon as she was there,

608
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 11: she threw herself into it, and we you know, was

609
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 11: very happy to kind of talk through character and rehearse

610
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 11: some stuff and try out the songs and all these things.

611
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 11: But we didn't have a lot of time, and we

612
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 11: just had to kind of go with our gut a

613
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 11: little bit and what felt right and just you know,

614
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 11: as you say, hope that you can organically create an

615
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 11: atmosphere as two actors that feels very very close to

616
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 11: what the two characters are doing. And I think I

617
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 11: think we did do that. But it's it's a risk,

618
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 11: you know, you don't quite know what you're going to get.

619
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 11: But that's that is what's sort of lovely about it,

620
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 11: I think for us, and was particularly nice during the

621
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 11: shooting was it was it was a genuine surprise to

622
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 11: all of the crew and to Tim, like when we

623
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,959
Speaker 11: started playing songs in front of him, You've never heard

624
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 11: us play songs before.

625
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 10: No, that's so there's that's that first time you see

626
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 10: my character listening to their music. That's also the first

627
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 10: time my nature's character my character in real life.

628
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 12: Yeah, yeah, I.

629
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 10: Heard it as well.

630
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 2: That is the moment that hit me the most emotionally

631
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 2: seeing you react to your love. Yeah, in the in

632
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 2: the first moment when you hear it, and then also

633
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 2: at the concert performance, where where do you go to there?

634
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 2: Because I could feel the backstory of your character come

635
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 2: out of what's what he's been through. But where do

636
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 2: you go to as an actor to get that performance.

637
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 10: Yeah, well, I don't know. I mean, actually that first time, well,

638
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 10: where I see them around the dinner table, I think

639
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 10: there's a lot going on. I feel like for me

640
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 10: and Tom that the we are we are quite kind

641
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 10: of passionate about this project. It's taken a long time

642
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 10: to come to fruition. I think all of that is

643
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 10: going into it. So when they're when they're singing, I

644
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 10: loved hearing them sing. But also there's a slight pinch

645
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 10: yourself moment that that you're the movie is being made

646
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 10: and that Carry mulligan is in front of you singing

647
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 10: with your pal and the music's so nice, And I

648
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 10: think it was a real moment for all of us

649
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 10: where the crew were really invested. We were shooting it

650
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 10: really quickly, probably only did that take about that scene

651
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 10: about two or three times. And Griff the director is

652
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 10: like behind the camera just you can see that he's

653
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 10: kind of like welling up. It's kind of a moment

654
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 10: for all of us. So, yeah, there wasn't really a

655
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 10: great deal of acting. It's just sort of this is

656
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 10: It was quite a moving moment. I wasn't I wasn't

657
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 10: I wasn't drawing on other times where you know, beloved

658
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 10: folk duos had sung to me, and I was just like,

659
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 10: this is insane that this is happening. So it kind

660
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 10: of came. I think if it was hard to draw emotion,

661
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 10: I think I'd struggle. It sort of came quite naturally.

662
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 2: Can you guys speak on that a little bit, because

663
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 2: I don't think people realize not only how hard it

664
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 2: is to get a movie greenlit, how hard it is

665
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 2: to get a movie made, but to get a movie

666
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 2: in theaters, and to be here sitting here today talking

667
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 2: about that, like hearing you reflecting on that moment on

668
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 2: the set, which is huge. Yeah, Like how important is

669
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: it to support a movie like this?

670
00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: Oh?

671
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 7: Well, I think it's it's vitally important.

672
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,959
Speaker 11: And I think it's been so lovely for us to

673
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 11: go to screenings this last week and see these full

674
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,719
Speaker 11: cinemas of people just really enjoying it but also genuinely,

675
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 11: you know, surprised by this story that they knew nothing about,

676
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 11: and going into a cinema completely blind, you know, not

677
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 11: seeing a reboot or a sequel or something that they

678
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 11: kind of know what it is. After five minutes, they're

679
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 11: seeing a completely new story and and just going with it,

680
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 11: just being taken up by it and being carried along

681
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 11: by the other people in the room. And there's something

682
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 11: that's just just magical about that. And you know, I'm

683
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 11: quite greedy for it. I think, having seen it, you know,

684
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 11: experienced it the last few days, I just feel like

685
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 11: I just I just really want to want everyone to

686
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 11: see it that way.

687
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, I think I think we don't take it

688
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 10: for granted. And I think, you know, we do lots

689
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 10: of different things in lots of different areas live and TV,

690
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 10: and I think you sort of know when you're doing

691
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 10: this one that we've kind of something is connecting. And

692
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 10: I feel very lucky that, I mean, this could not

693
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 10: see the light of day. We could make a Obviously,

694
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 10: the first thing is no one could have filmed it

695
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 10: because no one likes the script. Once it's filmed, there's

696
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 10: a chance it's a movie which not many people see.

697
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 10: So to see it playing in a cinema is kind

698
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 10: of I don't think we take it for granted. No,

699
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 10: I don't think we do take.

700
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 7: It for grant.

701
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 10: Of course, you know, it may never happen again for us.

702
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 2: Something else that stuck out was the wardrobe. I feel

703
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 2: like wardrobe gets overlock, like nobody gives love to the.

704
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 3: Wardrobe, But for actors, does that put.

705
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 2: You in the mindset of your character of like when

706
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 2: you put on the clothes they're wearing, the kind of

707
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 2: transform into them.

708
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 7: Yeah.

709
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 10: The first time we did it was with the short film,

710
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 10: which we've seen like several times over the years, and yeah,

711
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 10: that's definitely my dad's cardigan where I must have gone

712
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 10: home for the weekend right before shooting and just raided

713
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 10: his wardrobe basically, So it kind of feels like, yeah,

714
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 10: sort of sentimental watching that one and this one. They

715
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 10: had seen it the wardrobe department that short film, and

716
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 10: then they just created Yeah beautiful. I mean, weirdly, my

717
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 10: child's costume is so herbs costume for the majority of

718
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 10: the film because he gets wet and has to go

719
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 10: into my clothes, So it's kind of a sea of

720
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 10: these yeah Charles Heath clothes and it looks Yeah, I

721
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 10: agree when you Yeah, they've done a really great job

722
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 10: on the costume.

723
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 7: Yeah. I think you're right, though.

724
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 11: I think that people often focus on costume when it's

725
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 11: like sci fi or something, or like Wicked or something

726
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 11: where it's just like completely otherworldly kind of costume as

727
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 11: opposed to character for costume, which is just just clothes

728
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 11: that exists in the world, but they're just selected in

729
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 11: such a way they tell you so much about the character. Yeah,

730
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 11: and I love that about particularly Charles's costume, and it's

731
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 11: the kind of you know, the cardigans with the whale

732
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 11: embroidered into.

733
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 2: Say, I saw your green cardigan, I'm like, I gotta

734
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 2: find the like I want to wear that.

735
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 10: Yeah, that first the first shot of that, when you

736
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,720
Speaker 10: see Charles for the first time facing away from camera

737
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 10: putting the record on. That's a pretty spectacular Cardigan's a

738
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 10: whale on the back.

739
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 2: Yeah.

740
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 10: There was talk at some point of that being much.

741
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:03,839
Speaker 7: So I'll look that exact one, or getting loads of them.

742
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 10: I mean, merch can't just be getting loads of them,

743
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,399
Speaker 10: is right. The bedrock of merchandies.

744
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,720
Speaker 2: Was Maguire and Mortimer, based on any real duo, because

745
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 2: I have an affinity for anything twenty ten's like that

746
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 2: was when I was in college. That's like the music

747
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 2: I go to when I need to feel comfort. Was

748
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:23,879
Speaker 2: it based on the specific being?

749
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 11: I mean, I'm the same, I'm sort of very much

750
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 11: you know, sometimes in my head I still think it's

751
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 11: kind of twenty ten, and I forget in terms of

752
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 11: a lot of the music that I was sort of

753
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 11: you know, it's kind of glued to my brain.

754
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 7: It's sort of from that period.

755
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 11: No specific bands, I think, but people like maybe Gillian

756
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 11: Watch and Dave all into that kind of like Double

757
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,359
Speaker 11: Act and you know, I don't know, really a little

758
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 11: bit of David Crosbian and Roger McGuinn kind of like

759
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 11: you know, those kind of groups where there was a

760
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 11: sort of falling out Buckingham Nick's a little bit, you

761
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 11: know what I mean, like that kind of bands who

762
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,320
Speaker 11: were together and then fell fell out again. But yeah,

763
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 11: in terms of the kind of sound, certainly sort of

764
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 11: that I don't know, sort of Ryan Adams kind of

765
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,439
Speaker 11: like twenty ten, so period that kind of imp must

766
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 11: be quite a lot of things.

767
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 2: Well, I love the movie. I hope everybody goes to

768
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 2: watch it. I really appreciate the time. It's been really

769
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 2: great hanging out with you guys.

770
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 3: Thanks so much.

771
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 10: Thank you.

772
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 2: A number two I have director Greg Hillman and retired

773
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 2: FBI agent Walter Lamar. They were a part of a

774
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 2: Netflix documentary that came out earlier this year called Oklahoma

775
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 2: City bombing, American terror And before this, I hadn't really

776
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 2: talked to a lot of people who made and were

777
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,919
Speaker 2: a part of a documentary, just because I focus on

778
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 2: stories that are not real. But I thought maybe this

779
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 2: could be something that people could connect with, and it

780
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 2: ended up being one of my favorite conversations I've ever had.

781
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 2: And it was so much different to handle because normally,

782
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,399
Speaker 2: when I talk to people about their work, it's all

783
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 2: fictional things. You can ask them anything about any character

784
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 2: or any ideas behind why you put this in. But

785
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 2: when it comes to documentary films, it is so much

786
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 2: different because you were talking with people who were actually

787
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 2: involved and in this case, a really traumatic event. And

788
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 2: the reason this documentary came out is because it was

789
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 2: the thirtieth anniversary of the nineteen ninety five bombing of

790
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 2: the building in Oklahoma City, which was one of the

791
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 2: deadliest acts of domestic terrorism in United States history, and

792
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 2: Walter was a part of that. He was a part

793
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 2: of the rescue and Greg did an amazing job of

794
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 2: highlighting the story, highlighting the heroes, not glorifying the villain,

795
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 2: and getting that real human reaction and being very cautious

796
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 2: of the fact that you were talking to people who

797
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 2: witnessed probably the worst things ever, and for a lot

798
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 2: of these people, including Walter, was the worst day of

799
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 2: their life. And I think I had to go about

800
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 2: this interview a little bit differently, knowing that some of

801
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 2: these things may be hard for him to talk about.

802
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 2: So even gets emotional in this interview. If you've not

803
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 2: seen it on Netflix, maybe missed it earlier this year,

804
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 2: but it is called Oklahoma City Bombing, American Terror.

805
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 3: Let's get into this interview.

806
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 2: I was completely moved by the documentary. And I was

807
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 2: born in Texas in nineteen ninety one, so I really

808
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 2: don't remember a whole lot as a kid. For me,

809
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 2: watching this documentary was learning all the details in full,

810
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 2: from beginning to end, and it was really powerful to me.

811
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 3: So Greg, I'll start with you, why.

812
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 2: Do you think is so important right now, about thirty

813
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 2: years after it for people to watch this documentary and

814
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 2: learn about it.

815
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 12: You know, I'm gonna throw to what was there, when

816
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 12: it was when it happened. He was an FBI agent

817
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:45,760
Speaker 12: in Oklahoma City, and he did some extraordinary and heroic

818
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 12: things that day, and well, yeah, go ahead.

819
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 13: Well thanks Greg. The timing of this documentary is important,

820
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 13: and it's an important because of the messages that the

821
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 13: documentary conveys a powerful graphic reminder of the consequence of hate.

822
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 13: And when you think about those that are consumed by hate,

823
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 13: they lose trust in everything. They have no trust in

824
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 13: anything or anybody. And when you have no trust, the

825
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 13: enemy is around every corner. So we have to be

826
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 13: very mindful of that and paying attention to the messages

827
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 13: of this documentary that the consequence of hate, the importance

828
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 13: of having trust, right, But the more important message is

829
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 13: the power of coming together. And Mike that you mentioned

830
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 13: having previewed the documentary, so you know exactly what.

831
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: I'm talking about.

832
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 13: I think that message was loud and clear throughout the documentary.

833
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 13: I think Gregan has teamed it an amazing job conveying

834
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 13: that all important message.

835
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,320
Speaker 2: I think that is something I take away from watching

836
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 2: it is sometimes I struggle with anything that is true

837
00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 2: crime or something focused on a situation when are lost.

838
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 2: I find it hard to view that as entertainment, and

839
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 2: it's hard for me to say that this documentary was entertaining.

840
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 2: But it's so powerful in a way that it's not

841
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 2: the subject matter that I'm entertained by it's the fact

842
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,919
Speaker 2: that there was so much humanity that happened that day,

843
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 2: and so much that I saw how people reacted to it.

844
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:19,800
Speaker 2: That was really inspiring for me to see.

845
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 12: Well, it makes me happy to hear, you know. I

846
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 12: think it's certainly a dramatic story, you know, and there

847
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 12: are thousands of ways you can tell the story because unfortunately,

848
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 12: so many people were impacted by it, you know. So

849
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 12: our job was to find a handful of people who

850
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 12: were hopefully involved in the kind of the moments that

851
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,839
Speaker 12: were most intense over the next seventy two hours, and

852
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 12: we were really fortunate to do that. You know, we

853
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 12: found several people who were right in the heart of

854
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 12: what was happening all through that next three days. Was

855
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 12: one of those guys, you know. And what's amazing to

856
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 12: me about a lot of the people that we met

857
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 12: and talked to, And this thing is, you know, you

858
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 12: could understand most people just running away from a building

859
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 12: that's just blown up in the middle of your city,

860
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 12: in the heartland of America, you know, but there's so

861
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:05,720
Speaker 12: many people in Oklahoma City that day who did exactly

862
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 12: the opposite. They turned around and they ran right to

863
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:13,240
Speaker 12: the building. You know, there was a nurse, Rebecca Anderson,

864
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 12: thirty seven year old woman who ran into the building

865
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 12: to try to help people, and she actually wound up

866
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,439
Speaker 12: dying because it was so dangerous in there. Something fell

867
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 12: and hit her. You know, the whole building was just

868
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 12: in shambles that nobody knew if it was going.

869
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 1: To fall over.

870
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 12: You know, as Walla says in the documentary, he doesn't

871
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 12: know if he's going to see his kids again when

872
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 12: he goes into that building.

873
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 1: To try to help people.

874
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 12: All these people kind of discovered this hero inside them

875
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:37,399
Speaker 12: that they may not have known was there unless they'd

876
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 12: face something like this. And I found it really inspiring

877
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 12: to hear all of those stories.

878
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:42,360
Speaker 1: Walder.

879
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 2: Can you talk about that because in the documentary you

880
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 2: say that you saw it on TV, you saw the smoke,

881
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 2: and then immediately went into action. Can you take us

882
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 2: back to that day of you watching it first on

883
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 2: TV before you went there, you know.

884
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 13: Mike, and you know, I'm sure that you recognize that

885
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 13: that folks like myself that were there that day that

886
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 13: have been impacted by this. Uh. And I've thought about

887
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 13: it because when things like this when we are there.

888
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 13: I was at the branch to video and stand off

889
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 13: at Waco, Texas to day that the compound burnt down.

890
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 13: I was there, surrounded by the smell of burnt flesh,

891
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 13: seeing skeletal remains that were just hours before were human

892
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 13: beings and now they're so those things are all put away,

893
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:32,399
Speaker 13: and they're put away in a box. Try to put

894
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 13: them back here so you can continue to function, You

895
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:36,879
Speaker 13: can continue to work, you can continue to do your job.

896
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 13: So being interviewed for the documentary, that box had to

897
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 13: be taken out in every detail had to be talked about.

898
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,760
Speaker 13: So it was it was pretty tough. And even setting

899
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 13: here today with you, I have to tell you and

900
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 13: it's and it's kind of a tough thing to say.

901
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 13: I'm onto Virgitiers even talking about it right now and

902
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:04,320
Speaker 13: having just previewed the documentary and seeing stuff that that day.

903
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 13: You know, when we're looking back at that footage from

904
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 13: that day that Greg and his team pulled together and

905
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 13: brought there to take us back to that day, I

906
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 13: was right there and some of the things that I

907
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 13: saw in that footage, my mind focused down and blocked

908
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 13: out so that I was able to continue to do

909
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,359
Speaker 13: what I had to do. And that was to go

910
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 13: in the building and looking for survivors. But that morning,

911
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 13: I was fifteen miles away and I felt and heard

912
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:36,359
Speaker 13: to blast. I went in immediately into the house. And

913
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 13: you're much too young to remember these days. But when

914
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 13: we had sonic booms and they were pretty frequent and prevalent,

915
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 13: I thought maybe it was a sonic boom. So I

916
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 13: asked my wife, I said, did you hear that? She said,

917
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 13: I did. I felt it and heard it, turned on TV,

918
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 13: saw the plume of smoke, got my car and headed downtown.

919
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 13: But it's only dawned on me just within the past

920
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 13: couple of days. When I left the house that morning,

921
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 13: my entire life was going to change that day. And

922
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 13: when you try to try to quantify what that really means,

923
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 13: I mean, I continue to function, I continue to live,

924
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 13: I continue to be a husband and father and so on,

925
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 13: and do my job at the FBI. But there there

926
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 13: was there was change and that and and I thought

927
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,400
Speaker 13: about that. When I went back home at four o'clock

928
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 13: in the morning the next morning, I realized what that

929
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 13: that that my life had been changed, just like all

930
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 13: the rest of the people that were there that day,

931
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 13: every person that was there, every person that was impacted

932
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 13: by this, and now even the people that will see

933
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 13: this documentary, it will change them in some way.

934
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 2: I really appreciate you being so vulnerable there. I can

935
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 2: hear it in your voice, I can see it in

936
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 2: your face, and I think that was really what I

937
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 2: learned about your story by watching this documentary was the

938
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 2: bravery you had that day. I can only imagine how

939
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 2: that is looking back, even just have memories of it,

940
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 2: but having to see the actual footage from that day,

941
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 2: I imagine that's super powerful.

942
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:12,279
Speaker 3: So I really appreciate you sharing that with me.

943
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 12: It's interesting because it's not just bravery back then, but

944
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 12: it's also the bravery that all the people that we

945
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 12: talked to in the documentary had to come and sit

946
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 12: down with us. Yeah, well, just describe. You've got to

947
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 12: go back into that moment. You got to open it

948
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 12: up and you know, re experience it. And some of

949
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 12: the people that we talked to, like doctor Carl Spengler,

950
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,759
Speaker 12: who was ann emergency room resident who ran right to

951
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 12: the building right after it happened, and you know Renee

952
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 12: More who lost her six month old baby in the building,

953
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,840
Speaker 12: they never really talked much about it to anybody in

954
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 12: the media, you know, and so it was really a

955
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 12: gift for them to like sit down with us and

956
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 12: go back to those moments and share that with us.

957
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 12: And yeah, it's incredible to watch people do that.

958
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 2: Greg, how do you manage that as a filmmaker of

959
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 2: wanting to do this story justice but also being respectful

960
00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 2: to everybody involved, because, like you said, some people just

961
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:01,839
Speaker 2: don't want to speak about these things or go back

962
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 2: and remember some of this stuff.

963
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 12: And we talked, you know, we definitely talked to folks

964
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 12: in the build up to shooting who had amazing stories

965
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 12: to tell but didn't want to go on Cameron do

966
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:13,240
Speaker 12: that and I completely get that, you know, we totally

967
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,919
Speaker 12: respect that. And even when people sat down with us,

968
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 12: my job is to, especially in a thing like this,

969
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:25,359
Speaker 12: is to just help them tell their story the way

970
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 12: they want to, you know. And other than that, I'm

971
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:31,319
Speaker 12: not pushing. I'm not trying to get them to tell

972
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 12: me something in a more dramatic way. I'm not trying

973
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,399
Speaker 12: to get them to share something that they don't want

974
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 12: to share. I think it's just important to let people

975
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 12: tell you their story.

976
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 2: Walter, I'm curious at what age did you decide that

977
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 2: you wanted to get into law enforcement. And what age

978
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 2: did you know that you wanted to eventually be in

979
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 2: the FBI.

980
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 13: You know, Well, I'm an American Indian, I'm Blackfeet and

981
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 13: witch Ta, so we don't have an Indian country. We

982
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 13: don't have a lot of role models that are FBI agents.

983
00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 13: So we don't have Uncle Ben who's an FBI agent,

984
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 13: Aunt Susie who's an FBI agent, somebody in our community

985
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 13: who is. So that thought had never even really entered

986
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 13: my mind. My mother's father was in law enforcement. My

987
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:11,879
Speaker 13: dad was in law enforcement for a period of time.

988
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 13: And I was a school teacher on the Blackfeet Reservation,

989
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 13: teaching high school shop and I went to a conference

990
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:21,399
Speaker 13: and there were two Native FBI agents there and they said, hey,

991
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 13: have you ever thought about this? Well? I hadn't. Well

992
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 13: you should, and I did. And it's kind of a

993
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 13: kind of a long twisted story. But I'm at the

994
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,440
Speaker 13: FBI academy and I have a total, total, and complete

995
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 13: lack of confidence because I'm a high school shop teacher,

996
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 13: Native American. The rest of my class are attorneys, and

997
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:45,399
Speaker 13: one guy's a rocket scientist and on and on, and

998
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 13: I felt so small in that classroom. But once I

999
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 13: got through the FBI academy and I was at my

1000
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 13: first office, I realized that it was the job that

1001
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 13: I was meant for, and it was a job that

1002
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 13: I was made for. I think when Greg mentioned that

1003
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 13: the bravery and such, well, it's it's not. I guess

1004
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 13: there is a certain amount of that that's in there,

1005
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:12,839
Speaker 13: but it's about doing your job. You know what your

1006
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,359
Speaker 13: job is to do. You go and you do your job,

1007
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 13: and you don't think about it being an act of

1008
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 13: bravery or anything else. You just go do what you're

1009
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 13: supposed to do. And I feel like that FBI job

1010
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:27,359
Speaker 13: was what I was supposed to do. And one thing

1011
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 13: that I will say, and I've mentioned this to Mike,

1012
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 13: having gone through these interviews now thirty years later in

1013
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,839
Speaker 13: my seventies, so you start looking and reflecting on things

1014
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,000
Speaker 13: a bit differently. But one of the things, and I

1015
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 13: think I'm probably absolutely not alone in this, but and Mike,

1016
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 13: you mentioned it on the very front end when you

1017
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 13: talked about the kind of the dichotomy here of entertainment

1018
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 13: and information that it's And so I came to the

1019
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 13: realization that there is an inner conflict and there has

1020
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 13: been for thirty years since the bombing, and that conflict

1021
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 13: comes with the fact that you are not able to

1022
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:11,399
Speaker 13: tell yourself that you did good. It's hard to pat

1023
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 13: yourself on the back and say I'm proud of the

1024
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:18,280
Speaker 13: person I was that day because of exactly what you mentioned,

1025
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 13: the tragedy that's involved in that, the things that we

1026
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 13: all saw that day, the things that we all had

1027
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 13: to do that day, and to be able to say

1028
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 13: good job, it just hasn't been able to come. So,

1029
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 13: you know, and I'll thank Gregg and the rest of

1030
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 13: the team the way they did work us through the interviews,

1031
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 13: how we were allowed space and place in those interviews,

1032
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 13: and then subsequent to interviews, that realization finally came to me.

1033
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 13: And that's something that I'm going to work on. As

1034
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 13: silly as it sounds, but to be able to just

1035
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 13: say to myself, you know, you did good.

1036
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:52,479
Speaker 2: Well, it sounds like it's hard for you to take

1037
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 2: credit for some of your efforts. And as you see

1038
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 2: me standing or sitting in this studio right now, you

1039
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 2: might see I'm a big superhero fan and when I

1040
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:02,400
Speaker 2: think of the greatest superheroes, the greatest superheroes don't do

1041
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 2: the job because they need it. They do it because

1042
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 2: the people need them. And that is what I see

1043
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 2: in you.

1044
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 3: Alter.

1045
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 2: You have something inside of you that wants to help

1046
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 2: other people. And you're doing it not because you want

1047
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 2: to do it to be praise or renowned. You do

1048
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 2: it because I feel like there's something inside of you

1049
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 2: that this is. I know this is the good thing

1050
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 2: that I need to do and I need to help people.

1051
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 2: So just know that I just by talking to you

1052
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,879
Speaker 2: watching in this documentary, I can feel that, and I

1053
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 2: have just met you and been talking to you, and

1054
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 2: I feel like super proud for you.

1055
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 10: Right.

1056
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 13: I'll also say that, and Greg dis saluted it to

1057
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 13: a bit ago. My story is but one of a

1058
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 13: thousand stories. My story is but one of a thousand stories.

1059
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 13: And those other people that I know that were in

1060
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 13: the building, that rushed to the building, people that I

1061
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 13: know that experience that you know, my wish would be

1062
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 13: that their story, all of their stories could be told

1063
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,439
Speaker 13: because there is there was no one hero that day.

1064
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 13: There was everybody. And that's what I said earlier, the

1065
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 13: power of coming together. Everybody came together and everybody had

1066
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:12,359
Speaker 13: a contribution. And those stories are just incredible and they're

1067
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 13: amazing and the stories that Greg and his team were

1068
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 13: able to tell, but just a few of those. But

1069
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 13: I'm hoping that people want they see the documentary that

1070
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:24,280
Speaker 13: they recognize how many other stories are there.

1071
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 2: I thought you handled that really well of not glorifying

1072
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:31,720
Speaker 2: him in any way, but using his voice just throughout

1073
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:33,840
Speaker 2: what was most chilling to me, how he had no

1074
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 2: remorse about anything, and I'd never heard his voice, and

1075
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 2: I think having that there was important. But again, like

1076
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 2: we've been talking about how we struggle with finding things

1077
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 2: like this quote unquote entertaining, I felt like it was

1078
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 2: important to include that to tell the full story good.

1079
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 12: And I think so too. You know, we didn't want

1080
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 12: to given a platform in the grave kind of thing,

1081
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 12: you know, but it's and it's only a slight piece

1082
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 12: of you know, that material, so you just kind of

1083
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 12: get a tiny sense for who he was. But I

1084
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 12: think what we have in there is very indicative of

1085
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 12: who this cat was. You know, he was a very sad,

1086
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 12: empty human.

1087
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 2: There were a lot of things I learned about his

1088
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 2: capture by watching this documentary that when he was captured,

1089
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 2: that they didn't know that it had any connection to it,

1090
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 2: and it was all because of the license plate that

1091
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 2: he was driving around. He didn't have a license plate.

1092
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 2: Could you talk about that a little bit.

1093
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 12: Charlie Hanger has told that story many times, and I

1094
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 12: think he does a good job for us, you know,

1095
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 12: just that he wanted to go downtown like everybody else,

1096
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 12: you know in law enforcement, you know, in the five

1097
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 12: hundred mile radius, and he was told, no stick in

1098
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 12: your area. You're an Oklahoma State trooper, you know, and

1099
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 12: do your thing out there, and fortunately he did. And

1100
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:39,279
Speaker 12: then he came up on mcvay's car without a license plate,

1101
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 12: pulled him over, started talking to him, and when he

1102
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 12: asked for mcvay's driver's license to McVeigh reached for his pocket.

1103
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 12: He had a windbreaker on pulled tight across his chest,

1104
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 12: and that's when Hanger solid he had a pulster. And

1105
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 12: there had just been just a couple of weeks earlier

1106
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 12: shooting of a state trooper in Oklahoma, so he was

1107
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 12: on high alert and that's why he reached out grabbed

1108
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 12: a gun and from there, you know, McVeigh was in trouble.

1109
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 12: Nobody knew that he'd done the bombing, but you know,

1110
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:07,280
Speaker 12: he was driving without a license plate on his car.

1111
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:10,400
Speaker 12: And he now had an unregistered gun, so he was

1112
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 12: going to go in and sit in jail for at

1113
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 12: least twenty four hours at that point.

1114
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 13: You Know, one thing I'll say about Trooper Hanger pulling

1115
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:18,360
Speaker 13: him over that day is one of the things that

1116
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 13: I learned working in the FBI, working with a lot

1117
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 13: of law enforcement agencies and police officers. I call it

1118
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 13: cop eyes, that they developed cop eyes, or they have

1119
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 13: cop eyes, and it's based on instinct and intuition. They

1120
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:34,799
Speaker 13: see things that we don't always see. And sometimes they

1121
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 13: see things that they don't recognize overtly, but it's their

1122
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 13: instinct and intuition. And I think that day wasn't just

1123
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 13: happenstance that Trooper Hanger pulled him over. I think his

1124
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 13: spidy senses and his cop eyes recognized that was that

1125
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:54,680
Speaker 13: there was something afoot and pulled him over.

1126
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:57,279
Speaker 3: Wealter. What do you hope you are remembered for?

1127
00:53:58,800 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 1: Question?

1128
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 13: You know, Yeah, Mike, that's a damn good question what

1129
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:09,839
Speaker 13: I would probably most hoped to be remembered for. And

1130
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:12,799
Speaker 13: I wasn't always you know, And I even thought about

1131
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 13: this when I was thinking about the documentary. When I

1132
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 13: left the house that morning, my kids were still asleep.

1133
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 13: I came home, I was a different person. I didn't

1134
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:21,880
Speaker 13: get a chance to tell them again that I loved them.

1135
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:23,840
Speaker 13: And that's why I said that in the documentary that

1136
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 13: I just when I was in there, I honestly goodness

1137
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:27,960
Speaker 13: wasn't sure that I was going to come out, and

1138
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 13: I just had this desire to be able to tell

1139
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 13: my kids just one more time that I love them.

1140
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:35,400
Speaker 13: So what I would like to be remembered for. I'd

1141
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 13: like to be remembered as a good dad and a

1142
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 13: good pap up.

1143
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:42,759
Speaker 2: I love the documentary. I hope everybody sits down to

1144
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 2: watch it and really takes all those messages in. I

1145
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 2: hope everybody learns from all the stories. And I really

1146
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:50,359
Speaker 2: appreciate the time getting to talk to you guys.

1147
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 12: Thank you very much, Mike. We appreciate it.

1148
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 13: Well, Mike. Yeah, and I too appreciate having an opportunity

1149
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:58,840
Speaker 13: to visit with you and your viewers.

1150
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:05,839
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. An honorable mention.

1151
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 2: Before we get to number one, director Ryan Kugler, who

1152
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:13,360
Speaker 2: this year had a smash hit on his hands with Sinners.

1153
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 2: Like I was talking about earlier, he is a true

1154
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:19,240
Speaker 2: visionary and somebody now that can make any movie he wants,

1155
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 2: because he's had so much success with Sinners, with the

1156
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 2: first Creed movie, Black Panther one, and Black Panther two.

1157
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 2: On the horizon, we are looking at Black Panther three.

1158
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 2: I put it as an honorable mention because I only

1159
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:34,440
Speaker 2: really got to ask one question. But here we go,

1160
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 2: Ryan Kugler, you're Ryan.

1161
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:38,879
Speaker 3: You're one of my favorite directors. And I think not

1162
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 3: only for directing but writing.

1163
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:43,359
Speaker 2: And I think something that you're gonna be remembered for

1164
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:44,879
Speaker 2: is the representation.

1165
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:45,960
Speaker 3: I think that was huge for me.

1166
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:49,880
Speaker 2: Like in Black Panther two, having the first major Mexican

1167
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:52,720
Speaker 2: character in the MCU was like amazing. Was that something

1168
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 2: that you set out to do early on or something

1169
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 2: that kind of developed over time? The power of representation.

1170
00:55:57,719 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 8: It's something that I shot out to do early on,

1171
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 8: but it also wasn't something that I consciously thought about.

1172
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 8: Man Like I grew up in Oakland, California, like in

1173
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 8: the nineties when it was just an incredibly diverse city. Man,

1174
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 8: I wasn't able to travel because I didn't have the

1175
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 8: money too, but I felt like I had the whole

1176
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 8: world right outside my door. You know, people from all

1177
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 8: parts of the world were there, and they were proud

1178
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:20,879
Speaker 8: of their cultures. You know what I'm saying. They share,

1179
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 8: We would share with each other. We were over each

1180
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:25,359
Speaker 8: other's houses, eating each other's food, and listening to each

1181
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:28,600
Speaker 8: other's music. That was how I grew up and when

1182
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 8: I got enough enough means to travel, and I discovered

1183
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 8: that Oakland really prepared me for what the world. What

1184
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:36,120
Speaker 8: the world was man, you know what I mean. I

1185
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 8: got dropped off in Hong Kong. I never forget, and

1186
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:40,279
Speaker 8: I was like, Yo, this is like being It's like

1187
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 8: being downtown San Francisco, you know what I mean. I

1188
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 8: almost knew my way around, you know. And for me,

1189
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 8: if I have this ability, it's blessing to be able

1190
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:50,480
Speaker 8: to have a camera and write things that that people

1191
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:52,239
Speaker 8: are going to have an opportunity to go see. I

1192
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:55,279
Speaker 8: do fill up a responsibility to do my best to

1193
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:57,839
Speaker 8: present the world as it is, you.

1194
00:56:57,800 --> 00:56:58,319
Speaker 6: Know what I mean?

1195
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:02,000
Speaker 8: And all is fine. That rewarding when I'm watching a

1196
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:04,319
Speaker 8: movie when the world feels like that. So I feel

1197
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:06,960
Speaker 8: like that's my responsibility to continue to give out to audiences.

1198
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 8: So it means a world few to share that with me.

1199
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:12,280
Speaker 2: Bro And at number one, I have director Zach Kreiger,

1200
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 2: who also had a smash hited the box office this

1201
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 2: year with Weapons. Before this, his directorial debut was Barbarian.

1202
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 2: Next year, he's coming out with a Resident Evil movie.

1203
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 2: Back in the day, he was part of a comedy

1204
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:27,600
Speaker 2: troupe and TV show called The Whitest Kids. You know,

1205
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 2: as soon as I just got on the interview to

1206
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:33,600
Speaker 2: talk to him, I felt like we had been friends

1207
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:36,200
Speaker 2: for ten to fifteen years. And maybe it's because he

1208
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:38,480
Speaker 2: has roots in punk rock, and I think when I

1209
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 2: meet other people who are also fans of the music

1210
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:44,000
Speaker 2: that I grew up with and grew up probably in

1211
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 2: a similar way because of our love of a style

1212
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:49,400
Speaker 2: of music that you kind of had to be weird

1213
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 2: to be into. Maybe it was a little bit of

1214
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 2: instant connection there. But he is somebody who has so

1215
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 2: much attention to detail, and Weapons was a movie that

1216
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:02,560
Speaker 2: really moved me, had a cultural impact this year. Taught

1217
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 2: us a new way to run. If you haven't seen

1218
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 2: Weapons yet, it is also on HBO Max, So let's

1219
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 2: get into that now Here is Zach Kreiger. What is

1220
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:13,240
Speaker 2: it like when you wake up and realize you have

1221
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 2: the number one movie in the country.

1222
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 3: What is that feeling like.

1223
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 1: It is surreal? It doesn't. It doesn't feel like I

1224
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 1: think maybe somebody might expect it to feel, because it's

1225
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:26,680
Speaker 1: you're still in your bed and your skin in your room,

1226
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:30,040
Speaker 1: and it's you know, there's no there's no news, pixie

1227
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 1: dust sprinkled in the air.

1228
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:31,720
Speaker 5: You know.

1229
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 1: It's you can look at your phone and kind of

1230
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 1: reinforce that that's happening, and then you put your phone

1231
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 1: in your pocket and you're still just in your house.

1232
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:42,560
Speaker 1: So it's it's a weird thing, you know. It's I'm happy.

1233
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:44,439
Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong, I don't. I don't mean to be,

1234
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 1: you know, pooing anything, but uh, you're still you.

1235
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 2: So so yeah, I think I understand that because I

1236
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:56,760
Speaker 2: in my life, I've lost one hundred pounds and I

1237
00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:59,919
Speaker 2: was really proud of myself when I was really proud

1238
00:58:59,920 --> 00:59:02,200
Speaker 2: of myself when I did that, and I thought once

1239
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 2: I did all the work and lost the way that

1240
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 2: I would be suddenly happier. And then I woke up

1241
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:09,440
Speaker 2: when nan I realized I did it. I don't know

1242
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:11,320
Speaker 2: if I feel any happier. Is it kind of that

1243
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 2: same way where you're like, I thought this was going

1244
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,160
Speaker 2: to solve all my problems. This is what I wanted

1245
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:17,240
Speaker 2: to achieve as a filmmaker, and now that I have it,

1246
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 2: it's like, okay, cool, this is it.

1247
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 1: Okay, Well I think there, I think maybe, but I

1248
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 1: think there's something deeper under the surface that that we

1249
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 1: have in common. Right now, you did something really hard

1250
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:30,280
Speaker 1: and and you are reaping the benefits of that because

1251
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 1: you probably have more energy, and you probably probably have

1252
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:36,439
Speaker 1: some self esteem rise from that, right And I think

1253
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 1: that so even though my moment to moment is largely

1254
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:43,880
Speaker 1: similar than as it was before, I do have like

1255
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:47,200
Speaker 1: there is a sense of accomplishment that I think kind

1256
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 1: of is an underlying vibe that that I can I

1257
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:54,280
Speaker 1: can recognize as being as being different. Do you feel that.

1258
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 1: I know when I got sober, I felt that way,

1259
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:59,400
Speaker 1: you know, I felt like, oh, like things still bother me,

1260
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:03,080
Speaker 1: but like I have this like cushion of self esteem

1261
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:05,360
Speaker 1: that I've never had before, and I only got that

1262
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:08,320
Speaker 1: after I got sober. So maybe maybe we have that.

1263
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 3: And yeah, yeah, feeling the self esteem is a big

1264
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:12,439
Speaker 3: part of it.

1265
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 2: I guess I just thought that once I lost all

1266
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 2: the weight, that suddenly all my problems would fix and

1267
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 2: I'd find a girlfriend and I'd be like, okay, now

1268
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:20,400
Speaker 2: I get the job.

1269
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:23,240
Speaker 1: Would like come storming into your living room and like

1270
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 1: somebody would.

1271
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:25,480
Speaker 3: Just give you a raise exactly.

1272
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the world doesn't work out well.

1273
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 2: And I think with you in the creative field, that

1274
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:31,760
Speaker 2: you're always kind of chasing that thing, and then sometimes

1275
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 2: when you have you're like, oh man, was this really

1276
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:34,960
Speaker 2: what I wanted the whole time?

1277
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 1: Well that I don't know, because I think I've wanted

1278
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:39,440
Speaker 1: to be a filmmaker since I was like six, and

1279
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:42,959
Speaker 1: so so I you know, there's always maybe a fear

1280
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 1: that you're going to be like the dog that catches

1281
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 1: the mail truck and like, you know, is it gonna

1282
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:49,840
Speaker 1: monkeys pop? And by the way, maybe it will. I

1283
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:52,080
Speaker 1: don't know it. You know, this is all very new,

1284
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:54,000
Speaker 1: so I could I could be singing a different song

1285
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:56,440
Speaker 1: in two years. But but right now, you know, I'm

1286
01:00:56,520 --> 01:01:00,040
Speaker 1: I'm in Prague and I'm making a new movie, and

1287
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:02,800
Speaker 1: you know, my wife and I are good and I'm

1288
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 1: doing okay, So I'm alright.

1289
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:07,120
Speaker 2: So I'm a huge fan of post Malone. I had

1290
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:09,720
Speaker 2: the chance to meet him. I posted a picture of

1291
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:12,160
Speaker 2: him in my Instagram story and later I saw that

1292
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:14,680
Speaker 2: he watched my Instagram story, Like that's cool post Malone

1293
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:17,200
Speaker 2: watch my Instagram story. That was almost cool then meeting

1294
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:18,640
Speaker 2: him in some weird way because I don't know. I

1295
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:21,160
Speaker 2: think we're all just like fascinated with social media and

1296
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 2: who watches our stuff?

1297
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:23,000
Speaker 5: For you?

1298
01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:25,560
Speaker 2: As a filmmaker, do you ever during the process of

1299
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:27,840
Speaker 2: making a movie, think, man, I wonder who the most

1300
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:30,960
Speaker 2: famous person is going to be that has watched my movie?

1301
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 3: No, who would that be?

1302
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 12: For you?

1303
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:34,040
Speaker 4: Though?

1304
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 2: Like, oh man, I really wish they would watch my movie,

1305
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:38,600
Speaker 2: Like I love this person. Maybe since I was a kid,

1306
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 2: I'm a huge fan of them now, Like if this

1307
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:43,560
Speaker 2: person watches Zach Craiger movie, I mean, I.

1308
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:47,200
Speaker 1: Don't know, Brad Pitt, I've always been a giant fan.

1309
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:51,320
Speaker 1: That would be pretty cool. You know, there's so many

1310
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:54,680
Speaker 1: people you admire and I could give you a hundred

1311
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 1: names right now that would blow my mind if they

1312
01:01:56,520 --> 01:02:00,280
Speaker 1: saw the movie. I don't know. It's funny, like the

1313
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 1: idea of being on set and being like, all right,

1314
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:05,440
Speaker 1: I'm sitting up a shot and one day person, ye,

1315
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:07,280
Speaker 1: Barack Obama's gonna watch this.

1316
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:09,480
Speaker 3: And I'm really gonna impress them. With this one.

1317
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:11,160
Speaker 1: I do not think that way.

1318
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 3: For Barbarian.

1319
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 2: You said you learned to prep the shoot and shoot

1320
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:17,080
Speaker 2: the prep. What did you learn from Weapons?

1321
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:22,240
Speaker 1: Great question. I think I learned to and I'm still

1322
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:25,520
Speaker 1: learning it. I learned I need to learn to just

1323
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:29,040
Speaker 1: like relax a little bit more. Everybody I'm surrounded by

1324
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:31,320
Speaker 1: is really good at what they do. The movie's not

1325
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:34,000
Speaker 1: gonna collapse. You know, we're gonna get it.

1326
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 5: You know.

1327
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:37,920
Speaker 1: Here's what I learned. My cinematographer said during prep, you know,

1328
01:02:38,160 --> 01:02:41,120
Speaker 1: we're not playing a win lose game here. We only win.

1329
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:43,919
Speaker 1: And I was like, are you allowed to think that way?

1330
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 1: Do you think that way? Could I think that way?

1331
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:50,040
Speaker 1: And like, yeah, that's the attitude, man, Like I don't

1332
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:52,040
Speaker 1: need to freak out that if I forget to say

1333
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:55,080
Speaker 1: something in prep, suddenly everything's gonna burn to the ground

1334
01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:57,160
Speaker 1: and production and the movie will be broken. Like, no,

1335
01:02:57,280 --> 01:03:00,560
Speaker 1: the movie's gonna win, you know, because it's a good

1336
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:03,360
Speaker 1: idea and I have talented people and it's gonna it's

1337
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:06,160
Speaker 1: we're gonna get everything we need to get. And I

1338
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:08,800
Speaker 1: think when I was making Weapons, I had this fear

1339
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:13,080
Speaker 1: that that wasn't true. But I think that is I'm

1340
01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:15,080
Speaker 1: allowed to live in that mindset now.

1341
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:17,080
Speaker 2: I think one of the most surprising things that I

1342
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:19,480
Speaker 2: wasn't expecting when watching the movie and even rewatching the

1343
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:23,240
Speaker 2: movie were the moments of comedy where it was kind

1344
01:03:23,240 --> 01:03:26,000
Speaker 2: of unexpected. It was maybe Josh Brolin saying line like

1345
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:26,480
Speaker 2: what the hell?

1346
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:28,000
Speaker 3: Like what theF for? What's going on here?

1347
01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:29,720
Speaker 2: And there was just these moments that kind of popped

1348
01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:32,160
Speaker 2: in the theater where I was like, Oh, if you

1349
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:34,480
Speaker 2: cut this movie differently, do you think it could be

1350
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:35,160
Speaker 2: a comedy?

1351
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:35,560
Speaker 5: Oh?

1352
01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 1: I wonder. I don't know, but I'd love to see

1353
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:39,880
Speaker 1: someone try.

1354
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:43,640
Speaker 2: Why is it that people who have maybe roots in

1355
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:46,800
Speaker 2: comedy like you kind of translate to horror so well,

1356
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:48,600
Speaker 2: like a Jordan Peele I'd even put like a John

1357
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:51,240
Speaker 2: Kazinski in there, going from having this background in sketch

1358
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:55,000
Speaker 2: comedy where people know them for that and now suddenly

1359
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:56,320
Speaker 2: have such success in horror.

1360
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:57,160
Speaker 3: Why do you think that is?

1361
01:03:57,200 --> 01:04:00,720
Speaker 2: How do those two genres kind of have some similarities?

1362
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:03,080
Speaker 1: Because I think you have to have an ear for timing,

1363
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 1: and I think you have to be good at surprise.

1364
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:07,720
Speaker 1: I think every joke is a surprise, every single one,

1365
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:11,440
Speaker 1: every joke. Everything you've ever laughed at follows a recipe

1366
01:04:11,480 --> 01:04:14,840
Speaker 1: in a formula, like an algebraic formula. That formula is this,

1367
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:21,000
Speaker 1: an action with an expected outcome yields an unexpected outcome. Okay,

1368
01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:23,160
Speaker 1: So it's basically just saying, you do this, you think

1369
01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:24,880
Speaker 1: you're gonna get that, and you get a surprise. And

1370
01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:27,600
Speaker 1: I promise you there's not one thing you've ever laughed

1371
01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:30,000
Speaker 1: at in your life that doesn't sort of follow that.

1372
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:33,680
Speaker 1: And and try me if you ever see me on

1373
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:36,080
Speaker 1: the street and you think you have one that doesn't

1374
01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:37,920
Speaker 1: follow that for me, come up to me and tell me,

1375
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:39,480
Speaker 1: and I bet I can, I bet I can beat you,

1376
01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:44,680
Speaker 1: because it just does and and and so that is

1377
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 1: someone who's kind of good at that surprise, that like

1378
01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:51,080
Speaker 1: anti rhythm or that that little like pop is probably

1379
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:54,040
Speaker 1: going to be good at scaring you, because scares are

1380
01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:56,640
Speaker 1: follow the same anatomy, you know, where it's like you're

1381
01:04:56,680 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 1: subverting in expectation and and I'm not sure if it's

1382
01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:04,160
Speaker 1: the exact same, but it's very similar. So it's the

1383
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:06,760
Speaker 1: same muscle group, is what I'm trying to say. It's like,

1384
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:10,120
Speaker 1: it's like you're good at the same instrument. Maybe is

1385
01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:12,480
Speaker 1: the way I think about it. That was a really

1386
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:15,840
Speaker 1: mouthful bullshit to describe it a simple question.

1387
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:18,680
Speaker 2: But yeah, one of my favorite things about you is

1388
01:05:18,680 --> 01:05:20,280
Speaker 2: that you were in a punk band back in the

1389
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:22,960
Speaker 2: day where you said you would just basically get on

1390
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:25,440
Speaker 2: the floor and just scream until they totally had to stop.

1391
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 2: But you grew up in the DC punk scene, which

1392
01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:30,600
Speaker 2: I'm a huge band of punk rock. If you had

1393
01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:34,480
Speaker 2: to create a Mount Rushmore of punk artists, who would

1394
01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:35,480
Speaker 2: be on that Mount Rushmore?

1395
01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 3: Your top four?

1396
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:39,560
Speaker 1: Wow? Okay, I'd go bad brands first and foremost perfect

1397
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:44,240
Speaker 1: for DC. Yeah, I would go Fugazi probably, I would

1398
01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:49,040
Speaker 1: put you know what a great question, dude, I might

1399
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:52,480
Speaker 1: have to say the Misfits, Oh love it, huge Misfits,

1400
01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:54,560
Speaker 1: early Misfits when Danzig was in the band.

1401
01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:57,360
Speaker 2: I don't even consider them the Misfits after Danzig lev

1402
01:05:57,440 --> 01:05:58,680
Speaker 2: It's like it's just dancing.

1403
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:01,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And then like, I don't know, I mean,

1404
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:06,480
Speaker 1: oh god, that's so hard. That's such a hard one.

1405
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:07,720
Speaker 3: Fourth, Well, and what do you got there?

1406
01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:09,920
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe Dead Kennedy's I don't know.

1407
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:12,160
Speaker 3: I feel like that is a classic punk rock list

1408
01:06:12,200 --> 01:06:13,160
Speaker 3: right there. That is tough, I know.

1409
01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:16,160
Speaker 1: But now I'm madimiself. Those are all like obvious. You know,

1410
01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:18,640
Speaker 1: I could get like really like narrow a niche and

1411
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:20,960
Speaker 1: say like born against and his zero is gone and

1412
01:06:21,600 --> 01:06:23,800
Speaker 1: like keep going down that path. But I don't know.

1413
01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:25,560
Speaker 2: But melt Rushmore is the people who are gonna be

1414
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:28,440
Speaker 2: remembered forever. You gotta have dantic space up there. The

1415
01:06:28,520 --> 01:06:31,080
Speaker 2: Crimson ghosts up there is that kind of I would

1416
01:06:31,160 --> 01:06:35,040
Speaker 2: probably put. When I got into punk rock was late nineties,

1417
01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:39,560
Speaker 2: early two thousands, so I'd put Rancid, No Effects, Blink

1418
01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:41,000
Speaker 2: on eighty two, and Green Day.

1419
01:06:41,720 --> 01:06:43,280
Speaker 1: These are all pop punk bands.

1420
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:45,440
Speaker 3: Dude, you don't consider those punk bands too?

1421
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:47,920
Speaker 1: Green That all every band you just named is like

1422
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:48,600
Speaker 1: pop punk.

1423
01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:52,200
Speaker 2: Okay, So I'll go punk rock. Then I would go Ramones.

1424
01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:55,600
Speaker 2: Can I take the Ramones? Yeah, of course, yeah, I'd

1425
01:06:55,640 --> 01:06:58,440
Speaker 2: go See then I do feel basic kind of like

1426
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:02,120
Speaker 2: you did, because I'd go Ramones, Misfits.

1427
01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:06,160
Speaker 3: And Prop Ransom. Would you consider Rancid pop punk?

1428
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:09,680
Speaker 1: Not not? Not as pop punk? Is like Blink what

1429
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:10,200
Speaker 1: I did too?

1430
01:07:10,280 --> 01:07:13,240
Speaker 2: Wow, you consider rancid pop punk, that is, I said,

1431
01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:17,800
Speaker 2: not as the other You're like, you're commercial tasting music, Okay,

1432
01:07:18,120 --> 01:07:20,160
Speaker 2: for that's probably got black flag though that's cool.

1433
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:22,800
Speaker 1: I meanp Ivy was like that was like the band

1434
01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:25,200
Speaker 1: that was my gateway drug, you know, and that's basically

1435
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:27,840
Speaker 1: you know, that's rancid practically. So so I I get you.

1436
01:07:28,160 --> 01:07:30,280
Speaker 1: I'm not, by the way, I'm not giving any shade

1437
01:07:31,640 --> 01:07:34,120
Speaker 1: at all. I'm just saying like they were all very similar.

1438
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:36,600
Speaker 1: They're all kind of living in that same kind of

1439
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:39,160
Speaker 1: kind of like you know, time and space, you know,

1440
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:43,320
Speaker 1: no effect screen day and you know so that that dude, No, no,

1441
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:45,560
Speaker 1: no problems here. But I'm just saying, like you made.

1442
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:50,000
Speaker 2: Me feel so basic, now, Zach, that's not what I meant. Well,

1443
01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:52,200
Speaker 2: I really appreciate it's been awesome to get to talk

1444
01:07:52,240 --> 01:07:54,080
Speaker 2: to you. You are one of my favorite directors, so

1445
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:54,760
Speaker 2: this is an honor.

1446
01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 1: Thanks Mike. It's really fun to talk to you too, dude.

1447
01:07:57,120 --> 01:07:59,240
Speaker 1: Don't don't hold that against me that I asked you.

1448
01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 3: I thanks man.

1449
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:01,360
Speaker 1: All right, buddy.

1450
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:05,480
Speaker 2: So that is it the Top five interviews of twenty

1451
01:08:05,560 --> 01:08:09,080
Speaker 2: twenty five. Coming up later on the podcast, we're gonna

1452
01:08:09,120 --> 01:08:12,000
Speaker 2: have Kelsey do her top ten books of the year.

1453
01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:15,880
Speaker 2: So if you are looking right now at books for

1454
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:18,600
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six, maybe you're making the new year's resolution

1455
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:22,439
Speaker 2: of reading more, Kelsey will have her top ten that

1456
01:08:22,479 --> 01:08:25,639
Speaker 2: she recommends. After that, we'll start out the new year

1457
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:28,600
Speaker 2: with my top ten movies of twenty twenty five. I

1458
01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:31,360
Speaker 2: always like to wait until the year is completely done

1459
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:34,840
Speaker 2: because I hate having any kind of carry over. If

1460
01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:36,760
Speaker 2: a movie comes out in twenty twenty five, it has

1461
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:38,680
Speaker 2: to be on my twenty twenty five list. But you

1462
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:41,600
Speaker 2: have all these great movies coming out on Christmas that

1463
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:45,040
Speaker 2: I haven't seen yet, So it feels wrong for me

1464
01:08:45,160 --> 01:08:47,960
Speaker 2: to make a full list that embodies the year when

1465
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:49,920
Speaker 2: there are big movies I haven't seen yet. So if

1466
01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:52,360
Speaker 2: you're wondering why that episode hasn't come out yet, I

1467
01:08:52,400 --> 01:08:54,920
Speaker 2: always wait until the next year starts, so.

1468
01:08:55,240 --> 01:08:56,360
Speaker 3: Have that to look forward to.

1469
01:08:56,800 --> 01:08:59,920
Speaker 2: But until next time, go out and watch good movies

1470
01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:02,000
Speaker 2: and I will talk to you later.