WEBVTT - Don Simpson "80s Hits and 80s Excesses"

0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.440
<v Speaker 1>This show contains mature content and adult themes. It may

0:00:03.480 --> 0:00:11.600
<v Speaker 1>not be suitable for young audiences.

0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:18.040
<v Speaker 2>In twenty seventeen, Harvey Weinstein was outed as a serial

0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:22.360
<v Speaker 2>sexual abuser. Many brave women came forward and told their stories.

0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:26.320
<v Speaker 2>They exposed one of Hollywood's most powerful moguls as a

0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:32.400
<v Speaker 2>vicious sexual predator who operated horrifically and seemingly without consequences.

0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:36.720
<v Speaker 2>But Weinstein was standing on the shoulders of monsters. For

0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:41.120
<v Speaker 2>so many years, those monsters remained unchecked in Hollywood, shielded

0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:43.960
<v Speaker 2>by the millions of dollars they made for their studios.

0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:48.880
<v Speaker 2>Sex for fame is not new. In fact, it's as

0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:53.559
<v Speaker 2>old as Hollywood itself. Today we'll open the Variety Archives

0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:57.400
<v Speaker 2>and tell the story of blockbuster movie producer Don Simpson,

0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:01.200
<v Speaker 2>the dark princes of movie making. His magic touch for

0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:04.399
<v Speaker 2>producing hits gave him a license to prey on women.

0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:09.800
<v Speaker 2>This is Variety Confidential, the secret history of the casting

0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:14.840
<v Speaker 2>couch from Variety, the leading expert on the entertainment industry,

0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:20.720
<v Speaker 2>and iHeart Podcasts. I'm Tracy Patton. Today's episode Don Simpson,

0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:26.039
<v Speaker 2>Eighties Hits and Eighties Excesses with Me Today is Matt

0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:30.360
<v Speaker 2>Donnelley Variety's senior Entertainment and media writer, Hi Matt Welcome.

0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:32.440
<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much for having me. You know, the

0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:34.679
<v Speaker 3>story of Don Simpson and all of his abuses is

0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:37.360
<v Speaker 3>so much to dig into. He was allowed to slide

0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:39.520
<v Speaker 3>for so many years because his movies made a ton

0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:40.000
<v Speaker 3>of money.

0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:42.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it sure seems that way. Don Simpson and his

0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:46.720
<v Speaker 2>production partner Jerry Bruckheimer were a power team. They made

0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:50.440
<v Speaker 2>some of the most successful movies in Hollywood history, and

0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:53.800
<v Speaker 2>one of them was Flash Dance, which I really loved absolutely.

0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:56.440
<v Speaker 3>And their biggest hit was Eddie Murphy's Beverly Hills Cop

0:01:56.480 --> 0:01:59.040
<v Speaker 3>and if my math is correct, adjusted for inflation, that

0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:01.560
<v Speaker 3>earned over nine one hundred million dollars the world by

0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:04.240
<v Speaker 3>box office in today's value. They also, made, of course

0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:06.800
<v Speaker 3>Top Gun, the Tom Cruise classic in nineteen eighty six.

0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:10.280
<v Speaker 2>Yes, they really were a force in Hollywood. From nineteen

0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:14.160
<v Speaker 2>eighty three to nineteen ninety five, Simpson and Bruckheimer produced

0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:18.720
<v Speaker 2>ten films that made over three billion dollars. At a

0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:22.720
<v Speaker 2>time when Harvey Weinstein was rising to power, Simpson's excesses

0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:26.960
<v Speaker 2>and reckless behavior were enabled and covered up his films.

0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:30.600
<v Speaker 2>Turned actors like Tom Cruise and Eddie Murphy into household names.

0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:34.520
<v Speaker 2>But as Dawn's stature in town rose, so did his

0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:35.440
<v Speaker 2>dark side.

0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:38.160
<v Speaker 3>You're talking about someone who was accused of sexual assault,

0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:41.680
<v Speaker 3>was a known drug abuser and had frequent angry outbursts

0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:43.920
<v Speaker 3>that cost fear among his staff and even his friends.

0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:48.680
<v Speaker 2>And it all came to an end on January nineteenth,

0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:52.120
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety six, when he was found dead in his home.

0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:56.560
<v Speaker 2>Police found a cornucopia of prescription drugs, and his death

0:02:56.680 --> 0:03:00.760
<v Speaker 2>led to the investigation of two dozen doctors in Hallllwood.

0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:04.000
<v Speaker 2>So as we know, Don, along with Jerry Bruckheimer, became

0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:07.920
<v Speaker 2>a bonafide movie brand in the nineteen eighties. With films

0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:13.240
<v Speaker 2>centered around handsome, testosterone driven men placed in high octane scenarios.

0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:17.399
<v Speaker 2>Don and Jerry captured the zeitgeist of the MTV generation

0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:21.079
<v Speaker 2>with hit rock and roll soundtracks to match. For a time,

0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:24.840
<v Speaker 2>it seemed like Don and Jerry could do no wrong.

0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:28.040
<v Speaker 2>Don was suddenly one of the top producers in Hollywood.

0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:32.080
<v Speaker 2>Unfortunately for many left in his wake, he wielded that

0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:36.800
<v Speaker 2>power in extremely damaging ways. Behind the scenes. The success

0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:39.720
<v Speaker 2>of his film served as a clever vehicle for his

0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:44.280
<v Speaker 2>real interests, which a lot like Weinstein, focused mostly on

0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:45.560
<v Speaker 2>money and power.

0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:48.280
<v Speaker 3>So let's talk about Don Simpson's early life.

0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:51.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, he was born on October twenty ninth, nineteen

0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:54.160
<v Speaker 2>forty three, in Seattle. His father was a mechanic at

0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:57.880
<v Speaker 2>Boeing Aircraft. His mother was a homemaker. In nineteen forty five,

0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:01.200
<v Speaker 2>the family moved to Anchorage, Alaska. Friends from high school

0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:05.440
<v Speaker 2>remember Don's parents as pleasant and industrialist people. They were

0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:07.160
<v Speaker 2>church goers, but not fanatical.

0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:10.000
<v Speaker 3>So we know that Don's career started an entertainment in

0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:12.200
<v Speaker 3>San Francisco. What happened during those early.

0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:15.080
<v Speaker 2>Years, Yeah, he did. After college, he went to work

0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:18.440
<v Speaker 2>for an advertising agency in San Francisco. His job was

0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:21.520
<v Speaker 2>to promote Warner Brothers movies in the Bay Area. His

0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:24.479
<v Speaker 2>work got noticed at the studio and Warner Brothers hired

0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:28.120
<v Speaker 2>him to work in the publicity department in Burbank. But

0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:32.479
<v Speaker 2>Don didn't fit into Warner's relatively corporate environment. He was

0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:35.599
<v Speaker 2>fired before the year was out. He was out of

0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:40.160
<v Speaker 2>work for three years. Eventually, his well connected friends recommended

0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:43.039
<v Speaker 2>him for a job at Paramount. He rose quickly through

0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:46.920
<v Speaker 2>the ranks. By nineteen eighty one, he was president of production.

0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:50.040
<v Speaker 2>At age thirty, three, Don was part of a changing

0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:53.480
<v Speaker 2>of the guard at Paramount and in Hollywood. Studio chairman

0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:57.640
<v Speaker 2>Barry Diller and Michael Eisner, its president and chief operating officer,

0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:01.640
<v Speaker 2>were also in their thirties. He started in television and brought

0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:04.799
<v Speaker 2>a more youthful and aggressive perspective into the movie business.

0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:09.200
<v Speaker 2>Don was also doing a lot of cocaine around this time.

0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:12.200
<v Speaker 2>It was an open secret at the studio, but he

0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:15.280
<v Speaker 2>was by no means the only high profile drug user

0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:18.840
<v Speaker 2>in Hollywood or even at Paramount. In the beginning, the

0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:22.240
<v Speaker 2>studio seemed willing to let his drug use slide, but

0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:25.560
<v Speaker 2>as Don's habit grew, it became a problem that was

0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:29.919
<v Speaker 2>too big to ignore. Eventually, he was fired by Barry

0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:31.760
<v Speaker 2>Diller and Michael Eisner, but.

0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:34.640
<v Speaker 3>Not quite fired. Don was given a producer deal in

0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:37.279
<v Speaker 3>the lot after his termination, and this is a common

0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:40.040
<v Speaker 3>occurrence in the industry, especially back then. It's a system

0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:42.640
<v Speaker 3>that allows disgrace producer as an opportunity to save face

0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:43.719
<v Speaker 3>and also earn income.

0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:47.080
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and the screenplay they offered him was Flash Dance.

0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:50.839
<v Speaker 2>It was an improbable sounding story about a beautiful young

0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:53.640
<v Speaker 2>steel worker in Pittsburgh who wanted to be a Dancer,

0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:57.640
<v Speaker 2>but Don liked a challenge and his friend Jerry Bruckheimer

0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:01.839
<v Speaker 2>agreed to co produce. Jerry met in nineteen seventy three

0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:04.840
<v Speaker 2>through Jerry's first wife, Bonnie, who had worked with Don

0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:08.200
<v Speaker 2>at Warner Brothers. After Jerry and Bonnie split up, he

0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:11.640
<v Speaker 2>shared a bachelor pad with Don in Laurel Canyon. In

0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:14.680
<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighty three, they set up shop as Don Simpson

0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:19.600
<v Speaker 2>Jerry Bruckheimer Films. Flashdance cost seven million dollars to make.

0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:23.080
<v Speaker 2>It was released in nineteen eighty three and made ninety

0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:28.279
<v Speaker 2>five million dollars domestically. The partnership of Simpson and Bruckheimer

0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:32.640
<v Speaker 2>became an overnight success. High concept stories have plots that

0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:35.520
<v Speaker 2>can be described in a sentence. The plot for Top

0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:39.520
<v Speaker 2>Gun is hot shot Navy Pilot defies the odds, for example,

0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:43.360
<v Speaker 2>The industry's shift to high concept film started when Jaws

0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:46.680
<v Speaker 2>became a surprise hit in the summer of nineteen seventy five.

0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:49.960
<v Speaker 2>It was the first movie to gross over one hundred

0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:54.760
<v Speaker 2>million dollars that's half a billion dollars today. After Jaws,

0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:58.320
<v Speaker 2>studios demanded pictures that would make tens of millions at

0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:01.920
<v Speaker 2>the box office today. The goal is more than a billion.

0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:07.279
<v Speaker 2>Top Gun Maverick grossed one point five billion dollars. For example,

0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:11.160
<v Speaker 2>Don and Jerry may not have invented high Concept, but

0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:14.480
<v Speaker 2>they recognized it as a moneymaker for the studio and

0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:16.160
<v Speaker 2>for themselves of course.

0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:18.600
<v Speaker 3>So at this point Don is doing extremely well. With

0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:20.920
<v Speaker 3>that comes a lot of power, and with power, as

0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:23.120
<v Speaker 3>we've seen over and over again, comes access to a

0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:25.679
<v Speaker 3>lot of women, which brings us to the casting couch.

0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:28.480
<v Speaker 2>We found a quote from Don in nineteen eighty six

0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:32.080
<v Speaker 2>denying allegations that there was a casting couch in Hollywood.

0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:34.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm the kind of guy you would look at me

0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:37.240
<v Speaker 2>and think I would fuck anything that walks, and it

0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:40.440
<v Speaker 2>is true I will. But the casting couch is such

0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:43.040
<v Speaker 2>horseshit that my partner and I laugh about it all

0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:46.360
<v Speaker 2>the time. I have never gotten laid less than while

0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:50.520
<v Speaker 2>in the movie business. He also said, they're taking advantage

0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:53.400
<v Speaker 2>of people, and the people who are being taken advantage

0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:56.680
<v Speaker 2>of aren't that bright. But anybody who thinks they can

0:07:56.720 --> 0:08:00.240
<v Speaker 2>fuck their way into this business is an idiot. But

0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:03.480
<v Speaker 2>there is evidence that what Don said was not true.

0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:07.720
<v Speaker 2>For example, Jules Shepherd, and actress who appeared in Return

0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:11.080
<v Speaker 2>of the Living Dead and other horror movies, claimed that

0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:15.080
<v Speaker 2>Don propositioned her during an audition. She said that at

0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:18.080
<v Speaker 2>a meeting in his office at Paramount, Don gave her

0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:20.320
<v Speaker 2>a choice. He said they could do coke and have

0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:23.960
<v Speaker 2>sex and she would probably get the part, or she

0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:27.200
<v Speaker 2>could go through the whole charade of auditioning and not

0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:30.720
<v Speaker 2>get the part. Ted Mann, who's written for television shows

0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:33.880
<v Speaker 2>like Homeland and Deadwood, was with Simpson in New York

0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:37.120
<v Speaker 2>when they were auditioning young women for a never made

0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:41.520
<v Speaker 2>TV version of Flash Dance. He said, the hallway outside

0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:45.520
<v Speaker 2>Simpson's hotel suite was lined with these girls. Every thirty

0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:48.640
<v Speaker 2>minutes or so, Simpson would come out, combing his wet hair.

0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:52.040
<v Speaker 2>I'd say, how was the last one, and he'd say

0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:53.040
<v Speaker 2>not bad.

0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:53.680
<v Speaker 3>Next.

0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:57.400
<v Speaker 2>This went on for an entire day. There's also a

0:08:57.440 --> 0:09:00.080
<v Speaker 2>story that Don scheduled his film shoots to make make

0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:03.320
<v Speaker 2>it easier to hit on wannabe actresses. He told an

0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:06.080
<v Speaker 2>aspiring producer that sex scenes should be scheduled for the

0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:09.200
<v Speaker 2>last two days of production. That would give him extra

0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:12.640
<v Speaker 2>time to offer women the chance to audition for the

0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:16.240
<v Speaker 2>sex scenes. Chip Prosser, a screenwriter who worked for Simpson,

0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:19.600
<v Speaker 2>Bruckheimer said, Don showed him his pack of cards, a

0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:22.760
<v Speaker 2>stack of polaroids of nude women he'd photographed in his

0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:26.160
<v Speaker 2>office at Paramount. He told Prosser he'd convince the women

0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:28.880
<v Speaker 2>to pose nude by promising them a part in a movie.

0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:33.160
<v Speaker 2>He had an intense fear of rejection. He once compared

0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:37.559
<v Speaker 2>his and Jerry Bruckheimer's success in picking up women. Don said,

0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:40.240
<v Speaker 2>Jerry will ask nine women to sleep with him, and

0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:42.880
<v Speaker 2>nine will turn him down in a row. The tenth

0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:45.720
<v Speaker 2>woman says yes and he goes home with her. Me,

0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:48.319
<v Speaker 2>I ask one girl to go out with me and

0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:50.920
<v Speaker 2>she says no, and I want to go put my

0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:54.920
<v Speaker 2>head in the oven. His friend, the producer Michael London, said,

0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:57.840
<v Speaker 2>Simpson told me he hung out with hookers because he

0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:01.840
<v Speaker 2>couldn't bear to risk rejection. Call girls were a big

0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:05.040
<v Speaker 2>part of his life. Don's assistants had a tab in

0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:09.400
<v Speaker 2>his Rolodex labeled girls. The assistants were required to update

0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:12.559
<v Speaker 2>the women's names and phone numbers. But with all the

0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:17.239
<v Speaker 2>beautiful women available in Hollywood, why would someone as powerful

0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:20.960
<v Speaker 2>as Don Simpson pay for sex? Or as Charles Fleming,

0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:24.480
<v Speaker 2>Don Simpson's biographer put it, why with the casting couch.

0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:29.600
<v Speaker 2>Such a time honored institution, would any successful Hollywood producer

0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:33.920
<v Speaker 2>require the professional service of a hooker. Fleming suggests that

0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:36.720
<v Speaker 2>the moguls view sex workers as stand ins for women

0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:39.680
<v Speaker 2>who were out of reach before the men achieved power.

0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:44.439
<v Speaker 2>Producer Joel Silver told Fleming, it's the real revenge of

0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:47.520
<v Speaker 2>the nerds. Most of these guys were short, fat, ugly

0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:50.480
<v Speaker 2>kids who couldn't get laid in high school. Now they're

0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:53.560
<v Speaker 2>in control, and they're going to make everyone in the

0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:57.559
<v Speaker 2>world pay for what the world did to them. Simpson

0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:01.959
<v Speaker 2>himself repeated an old line, some times attributed to Clark Gable,

0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:04.880
<v Speaker 2>that you don't pay them to come, you pay them

0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:08.079
<v Speaker 2>to leave. As time went on, he got heavily into

0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:11.719
<v Speaker 2>s and m. In nineteen ninety five, four ex call

0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:14.640
<v Speaker 2>girls wrote a book titled You'll Never Make Love in

0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:18.760
<v Speaker 2>This Town Again. They devoted an entire chapter to Don

0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:23.880
<v Speaker 2>Don Simpson and education and pain. They said his serious

0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:27.080
<v Speaker 2>bondage games were like something out of Marquis de Sade.

0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:31.280
<v Speaker 2>In the book, Alexandra Daddock, whose professional name was Tiffany,

0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:34.079
<v Speaker 2>wrote that Don played a video for her when they

0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:37.840
<v Speaker 2>met for the first time. In it, he auditioned call

0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:41.400
<v Speaker 2>girls posing as actresses and then had sex with them.

0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:45.040
<v Speaker 2>He showed Dadig another tape in which a leather clad

0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:49.599
<v Speaker 2>dominatrix tortured a beautiful young woman. The scene was hardcore

0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:54.080
<v Speaker 2>debauchery that included a toilet, sex toys, and torture devices.

0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:58.120
<v Speaker 2>Dadig wrote, both women were prostitutes, but what Don and

0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:00.880
<v Speaker 2>the dominatrix did to this girl should have gotten them

0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:04.560
<v Speaker 2>both thrown in prison. Don could be as nervous about

0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:07.920
<v Speaker 2>dates with call girls as he was about dating non professionals.

0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:12.360
<v Speaker 2>Screenwriter Joe Esterhouse remembered partying with Don and Jerry in

0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:15.600
<v Speaker 2>New York, where they were planning a never produced sequel

0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:19.679
<v Speaker 2>to Flashdance. Don called an escort service and arranged dates

0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:22.760
<v Speaker 2>for the evening. Esterhouse said that during the half hour

0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:26.960
<v Speaker 2>wait for the women, Simpson guzzled a quarter bottle of gin.

0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:29.920
<v Speaker 2>It was pure nerves. He was like a little kid

0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:33.440
<v Speaker 2>waiting for his date to show up. Eventually, he became

0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:36.880
<v Speaker 2>one of the biggest clients of the infamous Hollywood madam

0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:41.000
<v Speaker 2>Heidi Flies. One former call girl said Heidiwood entice women

0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:44.960
<v Speaker 2>into taking dates at Don's house by promising them auditions.

0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:48.120
<v Speaker 2>She would allegedly say if you go on this trick,

0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:51.520
<v Speaker 2>you'll make ten thousand dollars, plus you'll meet Don Simpson

0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:54.360
<v Speaker 2>and he can put you in his next movie. In fact,

0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:56.640
<v Speaker 2>he did cast a few of Heidi's girls in bit

0:12:56.720 --> 0:13:00.439
<v Speaker 2>parts in the World of Drugs and Professional Sex, You'll

0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:04.720
<v Speaker 2>also find Mobsters. In its March thirty first, twenty twenty

0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:08.720
<v Speaker 2>two edition, The Telegraph in London reported that he once

0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:11.520
<v Speaker 2>crashed a car into the side of a house, which

0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:15.760
<v Speaker 2>left the car halfway stuck in the wall. Simpson blamed

0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:20.320
<v Speaker 2>his passenger, former Playboy centerfold Kathy Saint George, claiming she

0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:23.640
<v Speaker 2>had been behind the wheel, But Saint George was dating

0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:26.680
<v Speaker 2>a man with mob connections, and men claiming to be

0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:31.559
<v Speaker 2>mobsters turned up at Simpson's house. They ultimately extorted him

0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:34.280
<v Speaker 2>for two hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:36.880
<v Speaker 3>So the nineties are really when Don started having trouble

0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:39.600
<v Speaker 3>at work. I imagine that his addiction to drugs and

0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:40.599
<v Speaker 3>women were at the root of that.

0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:42.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, for one thing, he was the cliche of the

0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:47.520
<v Speaker 2>bad Hollywood boss. His tantrums were impossible to ignore. Petty

0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:50.600
<v Speaker 2>things would set him off. Don claimed his father was

0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:54.920
<v Speaker 2>physically abusive. None of his Alaska friends remember that, but

0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:57.319
<v Speaker 2>years later his mother was on the phone with one

0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:00.360
<v Speaker 2>of his assistants when she heard Don going off on

0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:04.000
<v Speaker 2>another assistant in the background. His mother admitted that she

0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:05.760
<v Speaker 2>used to put him in the closet when he lost

0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:09.800
<v Speaker 2>his temper. She said, pay no attention to his temper tantrums.

0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:14.760
<v Speaker 2>But his tantrums were impossible to ignore. Petty things would

0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:18.000
<v Speaker 2>set him off. He fired assistants because they put cream

0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:20.280
<v Speaker 2>in his coffee when he was dieting, or because they

0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:25.040
<v Speaker 2>served it black when he was not. He demanded perfect bagels.

0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:29.320
<v Speaker 2>An ex assistant said if his bagel was toasted too much,

0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.040
<v Speaker 2>he'd have a heart attack. If you got the wrong

0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:35.680
<v Speaker 2>kind of mustard, you were dead. It had to be frenches.

0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:38.360
<v Speaker 2>At the Regency in New York, he yelled at the

0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:42.720
<v Speaker 2>housekeepers because someone had pressed and starched his jeans. I

0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:46.120
<v Speaker 2>asked for fluff and fold. He screamed, how dare you

0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:52.080
<v Speaker 2>fluff and fold? He vandalized a hotel room during another tantrum.

0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:55.680
<v Speaker 2>A former assistant said he couldn't open the window, so

0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:59.320
<v Speaker 2>he just tossed a chair through it. In nineteen ninety,

0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:02.920
<v Speaker 2>a talent and told an interviewer that Don was egotistical

0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:08.000
<v Speaker 2>and megalomaniacal. He's irrational and out of control until he

0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:11.720
<v Speaker 2>gets his way, but everybody deals with him because they

0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:15.320
<v Speaker 2>have to. His movies make money. Many of the journalists

0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:18.120
<v Speaker 2>who try to report on Don Simpson found themselves on

0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:21.840
<v Speaker 2>the receiving end of threats and strong arm tactics. Courtesy

0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:25.440
<v Speaker 2>of names like private investigator Anthony Pelicano and, in the

0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:30.720
<v Speaker 2>words of journalist Charles Fleming, legendary rough litigator Burt Fields.

0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:35.520
<v Speaker 2>They became ubiquitous as enforcers for Simpson's take no prisoner's

0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:39.280
<v Speaker 2>approach to the entertainment industry, and the linkage between aras

0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:43.200
<v Speaker 2>has other significant figures who either began with Simpson or

0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:48.480
<v Speaker 2>whose careers were supercharged by his big spending ways. For decades,

0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:52.800
<v Speaker 2>event planner and pr consultant Peggy Siegel reigned as one

0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:57.320
<v Speaker 2>of New York's busiest entertainment movers and shakers until, as

0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:00.120
<v Speaker 2>Town and Country magazine put it in twenty nineteen, and

0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:04.760
<v Speaker 2>the old school power publicist fell off a cliff. That's

0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:09.040
<v Speaker 2>when Siegel's networking efforts on behalf of convicted sexual predator

0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:13.120
<v Speaker 2>Jeffrey Epstein put her in the crosshairs of the same media.

0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:17.640
<v Speaker 2>She had spent decades courting for her many Oscar competitor clients,

0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:22.040
<v Speaker 2>including most notably Harvey Weinstein. But before all of that,

0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:25.400
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen eighty three, Siegel was hired by Simpson to

0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:29.440
<v Speaker 2>launch his personal brand of celebrityhood via a series of

0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:34.120
<v Speaker 2>wildly extravagant parties in the Colorado ski resort of Aspen.

0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:39.240
<v Speaker 2>These star packed bacchanalls were fueled by unlimited amounts of cash,

0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:43.840
<v Speaker 2>top shelf champagne and pure Bolivian cocaine.

0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:46.840
<v Speaker 3>There was a sexual harassment lawsuit as well that was

0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:49.200
<v Speaker 3>a big story for Variety and not nearly as prevalent

0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:50.000
<v Speaker 3>as they are today.

0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:53.520
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and he was sued by a former assistant named

0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:57.040
<v Speaker 2>Monica Harmon in nineteen eighty nine. She alleged that she

0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:00.760
<v Speaker 2>was forced to schedule meetups with sex workers. She also

0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:03.800
<v Speaker 2>stated that he played porn videos in his office and

0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:06.119
<v Speaker 2>that he had used drugs in the office in front

0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:08.919
<v Speaker 2>of her. And on top of that, she claimed she

0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:12.200
<v Speaker 2>had to clean up coke in his office and his bathroom,

0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:15.280
<v Speaker 2>and allegedly he said things to her like you fucked

0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:18.720
<v Speaker 2>up again, you stupid bitch. You can't do anything right.

0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:22.560
<v Speaker 2>She claimed that Simpson's abuse caused her to lose sleep

0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:26.479
<v Speaker 2>and have headaches, muscular tension, and stress. She asked for

0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:29.080
<v Speaker 2>five million dollars in damages.

0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:30.320
<v Speaker 3>Which John could have easily paid off.

0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:35.119
<v Speaker 2>Correct, Yeah, I would say, But he played hardball. He

0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:38.320
<v Speaker 2>brought in Bert Fields, one of the big Hollywood fix

0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:42.119
<v Speaker 2>it lawyers. He also hired the notorious Hollywood private eye

0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:46.960
<v Speaker 2>Anthony Pelicano. Together they made the classic play against Monica Harmon.

0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:51.200
<v Speaker 2>They put her on trial. Pelicano found witnesses who said

0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:54.919
<v Speaker 2>Monica regularly used cocaine, and he found receipts from her

0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:58.880
<v Speaker 2>video store that proves she'd rented porn, which is obviously

0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:03.440
<v Speaker 2>not indicative of any wrongdoing, but I digress. Bert Fields

0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:08.200
<v Speaker 2>ran circles around Monica's attorneys in court. He also countersued Monica,

0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:12.359
<v Speaker 2>also for five million dollars. In the end, the case

0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:16.160
<v Speaker 2>was dismissed. They had become so successful that by nineteen

0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:19.600
<v Speaker 2>ninety they were able to negotiate a deal of mind

0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:24.240
<v Speaker 2>blowing proportions with paramount three hundred million dollars over five

0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:27.760
<v Speaker 2>years to make any five movies they chose. That's about

0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:31.879
<v Speaker 2>seven hundred million dollars today. In May that year, Dawn

0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:35.840
<v Speaker 2>told Variety columnist Army Archard, we feel this is our

0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:39.840
<v Speaker 2>best movie to date, but they went way over budget,

0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:44.119
<v Speaker 2>filming on location on NASCAR tracks. After its release in June,

0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:49.480
<v Speaker 2>Days of Thunder underperformed, with worldwide grosses under one hundred

0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:53.959
<v Speaker 2>million dollars, Paramount canceled its production deal with Simpson Bruckheimer.

0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:57.399
<v Speaker 2>Dawn took it very hard. He began to retreat to

0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:00.800
<v Speaker 2>his mansion in bel Air nine twenty one. Don and

0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:04.320
<v Speaker 2>Jerry signed with Disney in nineteen ninety five. They came

0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:08.600
<v Speaker 2>out with Crimson Tide, Dangerous Minds, and Bad Boys, all

0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:12.320
<v Speaker 2>big hits, but by then it was too late for

0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:13.160
<v Speaker 2>Don Simpson.

0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:15.680
<v Speaker 3>So as Don's drug use began to take a toll

0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:19.240
<v Speaker 3>on his work and, most significantly, his relationship with Jerry Bruckheimer.

0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:21.639
<v Speaker 3>He did go to rehab and spend tens of thousands

0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:22.880
<v Speaker 3>of dollars in trying to get clean.

0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:25.040
<v Speaker 2>Yes he did. He was in and out of the

0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:28.639
<v Speaker 2>Meninger Clinic in Kansas and the Hazleton Center in Minnesota

0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:31.760
<v Speaker 2>several times. He also tried the Betty Ford Center in

0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:36.480
<v Speaker 2>Palm Springs and AA. He also dabbled in Scientology. He

0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:39.119
<v Speaker 2>had worked with Tom Cruise, who was a member. In

0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:42.679
<v Speaker 2>an interview later, Don said that after spending thousands of

0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:47.080
<v Speaker 2>dollars and working for months on what scientology calls going clear,

0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:51.040
<v Speaker 2>he asked his counselor, I've almost gone clear. Why aren't

0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:54.080
<v Speaker 2>I happier? The counselor said he would be happy when

0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:57.439
<v Speaker 2>he went through OT three or achieved a third level

0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:01.760
<v Speaker 2>operating Thetan plateau. In other words, words, the goalpost had

0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:05.639
<v Speaker 2>been moved and the cost had gone up. Don said,

0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:09.720
<v Speaker 2>at that point, I realized it was a con. At

0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:13.399
<v Speaker 2>one point, he tried a very risky strategy for kicking

0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:18.119
<v Speaker 2>his addictions. He hired a physician, doctor Stephen Amerman, to

0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:21.480
<v Speaker 2>live on his estate and treat him full time. The

0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:26.080
<v Speaker 2>doctor's strategy was to prescribe drugs to manage Don's withdrawal symptoms.

0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:31.960
<v Speaker 2>One expert later called the strategy dangerously unorthodox. Doctor Amerman

0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:36.320
<v Speaker 2>was also a recovering addict. He had a serious relapse

0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:39.960
<v Speaker 2>that summer that ended with his death at Don's poolhouse

0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:44.679
<v Speaker 2>on August seventeenth, nineteen ninety five. The police report noted

0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:48.040
<v Speaker 2>that the scene had been sanitized, meaning evidence of drug

0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:51.520
<v Speaker 2>use had been removed or hidden. The autopsy found the

0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:56.000
<v Speaker 2>cause of death to be multiple drug intoxication. Toxicologists found

0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:59.720
<v Speaker 2>a deadly mix of cocaine, morphine, and valume in his system.

0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:03.160
<v Speaker 2>The death of doctor Amerman should have been a wake

0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:07.000
<v Speaker 2>up call for Don Simpson, but in retrospect the call

0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:10.440
<v Speaker 2>may have come too late. But it was a wake

0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:14.760
<v Speaker 2>up call for Jerry Bruckheimer. Four months later, he and

0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:19.240
<v Speaker 2>Don announced that they were closing Simpson Bruckheimer. It was amicable.

0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:22.280
<v Speaker 2>They would continue to work together on projects they already

0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:25.600
<v Speaker 2>had in the pipeline, but from that point forward they

0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:29.479
<v Speaker 2>would both become independent producers. In the fall of nineteen

0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:32.439
<v Speaker 2>ninety five, Don considered treatment for his addiction with a

0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:37.080
<v Speaker 2>doctor who specialized in using hormones to control mood disorders.

0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:41.280
<v Speaker 2>During a routine physical exam, the doctor found that Don

0:21:41.400 --> 0:21:45.439
<v Speaker 2>was in immediate danger of sudden heart failure. He warned

0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:48.399
<v Speaker 2>Don that his heart could stop beating at any moment.

0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:52.040
<v Speaker 2>When it happened, it would most likely be quote either

0:21:52.080 --> 0:21:55.280
<v Speaker 2>at the dinner table, on the can or when waking up.

0:21:55.880 --> 0:21:59.000
<v Speaker 2>Don ignored the warning and went to another doctor who

0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:04.160
<v Speaker 2>gave him a more hope full prognosis on Thursday, January eighteenth,

0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:08.119
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety six. Don had been holed up at home

0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:11.320
<v Speaker 2>for weeks. He met for three hours that day with

0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:14.240
<v Speaker 2>his lawyer, his agent, and his brother Larry to discuss

0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:17.280
<v Speaker 2>a potential new production deal in the works at Universal.

0:22:18.080 --> 0:22:20.520
<v Speaker 2>He was upbeat for a change. He felt good about

0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:25.520
<v Speaker 2>his prospects. Casey Silver, a former Simpson Bruckheimer development director,

0:22:25.800 --> 0:22:29.720
<v Speaker 2>was now head of development at Universal. Don had an inn.

0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:32.879
<v Speaker 2>The ball was in Casey's court and Don expected his

0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:35.840
<v Speaker 2>call at any minute. Later that day, he took a

0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:39.200
<v Speaker 2>call from James Toback, the screenwriter and director, who was

0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:42.760
<v Speaker 2>seeking advice on a script. The call lasted five hours,

0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:47.640
<v Speaker 2>Toback said later, we had this marathon, multi hour conversation,

0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:51.440
<v Speaker 2>after which he drifted into sleep. When Don woke up,

0:22:51.680 --> 0:22:54.520
<v Speaker 2>he grabbed a copy of the new biography of director

0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:59.080
<v Speaker 2>Oliver Stone and went into the master bath. His housekeepers

0:22:59.160 --> 0:23:02.840
<v Speaker 2>arrived around five o'clock. One of them found his body

0:23:02.880 --> 0:23:06.760
<v Speaker 2>on the floor next to the toilet. The biography of

0:23:06.840 --> 0:23:10.320
<v Speaker 2>Oliver Stone was lying at his feet.

0:23:09.840 --> 0:23:12.720
<v Speaker 3>And this is when staff at the house called Don's assistant.

0:23:12.480 --> 0:23:17.119
<v Speaker 2>Yes Todd Morrero. He then phoned Don's lawyers, Jerry Bruckheimer

0:23:17.160 --> 0:23:20.640
<v Speaker 2>and probably others. We know that two of Don's attorneys

0:23:20.720 --> 0:23:24.360
<v Speaker 2>arrived at the house within minutes. Morrero eventually called nine

0:23:24.400 --> 0:23:28.720
<v Speaker 2>one one and EMS arrived in fifteen minutes. LAPD and

0:23:28.760 --> 0:23:33.200
<v Speaker 2>coroner investigators arrived later. Sixty three of the eighty bottles

0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:37.080
<v Speaker 2>of medication police found were prescribed by the late doctor

0:23:37.119 --> 0:23:41.200
<v Speaker 2>Stephen Amerman. The police report echoed the report on doctor

0:23:41.280 --> 0:23:46.720
<v Speaker 2>Amerman's death. The scene had been sanitized and decedent is

0:23:46.760 --> 0:23:51.800
<v Speaker 2>said to have histories of PCP and cocaine abuse, possibly marijuana.

0:23:52.359 --> 0:23:56.000
<v Speaker 2>There were thousands of mind altering prescription medications in the house,

0:23:56.520 --> 0:23:59.560
<v Speaker 2>but they found no illegal drugs. It seemed as though

0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:02.720
<v Speaker 2>someone had had removed them. There was no suicide note

0:24:02.760 --> 0:24:06.000
<v Speaker 2>or obvious trauma. The report stated it was a death

0:24:06.040 --> 0:24:12.520
<v Speaker 2>by natural causes. The entry under Special Circumstances read drug background.

0:24:12.320 --> 0:24:15.280
<v Speaker 3>Natural causes, but the actual cause of death was released

0:24:15.320 --> 0:24:16.360
<v Speaker 3>later correct Yes.

0:24:16.640 --> 0:24:20.520
<v Speaker 2>It was cocaine use in the presence of myocardiofibrosis that

0:24:20.720 --> 0:24:25.720
<v Speaker 2>may have induced fatal arrhythmia. Myocardiofibrosis is a thickening of

0:24:25.760 --> 0:24:30.399
<v Speaker 2>the heart muscle walls. The toxicology report found traces of

0:24:30.800 --> 0:24:38.560
<v Speaker 2>unisom Adaracs, Vistail, Librium, Valium, compizine, Xanax, decrel, and Teagan.

0:24:38.680 --> 0:24:43.200
<v Speaker 2>In Don's blood, cocaine was also detected. Much later, someone

0:24:43.280 --> 0:24:46.480
<v Speaker 2>listened to the messages on Don's answering machine. One was

0:24:46.520 --> 0:24:50.760
<v Speaker 2>from Casey Silver at Universal. He had decided to green

0:24:50.840 --> 0:24:54.160
<v Speaker 2>light Don's production deal. It was the call Don had

0:24:54.160 --> 0:24:57.560
<v Speaker 2>been waiting for. It came in around four pm, an

0:24:57.640 --> 0:25:02.000
<v Speaker 2>hour before his body was found. Variety's obituary for Don

0:25:02.040 --> 0:25:05.919
<v Speaker 2>Simpson ran on Monday, January twenty ninth. It read, in part,

0:25:06.800 --> 0:25:11.280
<v Speaker 2>for Simpson, success was trouble spelled backward by all accounts.

0:25:11.320 --> 0:25:14.359
<v Speaker 2>Simpson was a complex man, extolled by his friends for

0:25:14.400 --> 0:25:20.119
<v Speaker 2>his intelligence, amazing recall of information, and unconditional loyalty. But

0:25:20.200 --> 0:25:23.240
<v Speaker 2>he also indulged privately in excesses that led to the

0:25:23.280 --> 0:25:29.040
<v Speaker 2>diminution of his productivity and strained his partnership with Bruckheimer. Bruckheimer, however,

0:25:29.119 --> 0:25:33.400
<v Speaker 2>remained loyal to Simpson. Later that day, the most powerful

0:25:33.440 --> 0:25:37.080
<v Speaker 2>people in Hollywood gathered to mourn at Morton's, a restaurant

0:25:37.119 --> 0:25:39.960
<v Speaker 2>catering to the rich and famous in West Hollywood. It

0:25:39.960 --> 0:25:43.360
<v Speaker 2>could have been an Academy Awards after party for all

0:25:43.440 --> 0:25:48.439
<v Speaker 2>his abuse and dysfunction, Hollywood revered, rewarded, and enabled the

0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:53.880
<v Speaker 2>late mogul Don Simpson. So, Matt, looking back on all

0:25:53.960 --> 0:25:57.400
<v Speaker 2>of this, why do you think this reckless, predatory behavior

0:25:57.720 --> 0:26:00.959
<v Speaker 2>was condoned and even reward.

0:26:00.560 --> 0:26:02.800
<v Speaker 3>I think all the evidence is there in his biography.

0:26:02.880 --> 0:26:07.480
<v Speaker 3>He was an incredibly lucrative movie and cash machine, and

0:26:07.600 --> 0:26:09.760
<v Speaker 3>even if you look at how long it took the

0:26:09.800 --> 0:26:12.840
<v Speaker 3>relationship with Bruckheimer to deteriorate, I think that this, given

0:26:12.880 --> 0:26:16.439
<v Speaker 3>the time and the incredible success, it was very hard

0:26:16.480 --> 0:26:19.200
<v Speaker 3>to say no or to turn away from someone like Don,

0:26:19.240 --> 0:26:22.240
<v Speaker 3>with his influence and clearly his relationships with filmmakers.

0:26:22.560 --> 0:26:25.320
<v Speaker 2>I mean, really, when it comes down to it, it's

0:26:25.359 --> 0:26:30.240
<v Speaker 2>about men and power. The euphemism the casting couch, the

0:26:30.240 --> 0:26:34.080
<v Speaker 2>fact that it even exists speaks volumes that we have

0:26:34.280 --> 0:26:38.359
<v Speaker 2>a specific phrase for this, and it's passed down through

0:26:38.480 --> 0:26:39.240
<v Speaker 2>the decades.

0:26:39.480 --> 0:26:42.680
<v Speaker 3>I'll say, one that's used quite casually and used to

0:26:42.720 --> 0:26:46.200
<v Speaker 3>be a punchline as opposed to mcgrave's seriousness. What's also

0:26:46.240 --> 0:26:48.919
<v Speaker 3>really interesting about Don Simpson, specifically to me, is that

0:26:48.960 --> 0:26:51.280
<v Speaker 3>he went on the record and addressed the casting couch,

0:26:51.600 --> 0:26:53.879
<v Speaker 3>even going so far as to debunk it, which is

0:26:54.080 --> 0:26:57.560
<v Speaker 3>sort of like an apex level of predatory behavior where

0:26:57.560 --> 0:26:59.840
<v Speaker 3>you say, oh, this thing is ridiculous, you know, to say, quote,

0:26:59.880 --> 0:27:02.159
<v Speaker 3>I've never gotten laid less than while working in the

0:27:02.200 --> 0:27:06.280
<v Speaker 3>movie business. That is gas lighting and horror to another level.

0:27:06.680 --> 0:27:10.199
<v Speaker 2>And it's almost like Harvey Weinstein was standing on the

0:27:10.200 --> 0:27:13.920
<v Speaker 2>shoulders of Don Simpson in a certain way. I think overall,

0:27:13.960 --> 0:27:16.959
<v Speaker 2>what they do have in common is the fact that

0:27:17.400 --> 0:27:19.040
<v Speaker 2>they used their.

0:27:18.880 --> 0:27:22.160
<v Speaker 3>Power absolutely and you know, with Harvey, I would say

0:27:22.200 --> 0:27:25.160
<v Speaker 3>that any Mirror, Maax or Weinstein Company film could only

0:27:25.200 --> 0:27:28.000
<v Speaker 3>hope to gross as much as movies like Bad Boys

0:27:28.359 --> 0:27:31.040
<v Speaker 3>or Top Gun or any of these incredible hits. But

0:27:31.160 --> 0:27:35.360
<v Speaker 3>what Harvey had influence over specifically was prestige awards, which

0:27:35.440 --> 0:27:37.439
<v Speaker 3>led to, you know, such better careers for women. What

0:27:37.480 --> 0:27:39.639
<v Speaker 3>also really broke my heart about the Don Simpson story

0:27:39.720 --> 0:27:41.680
<v Speaker 3>is take a movie like Flash Dance, which you said

0:27:41.680 --> 0:27:44.000
<v Speaker 3>you loved and so so many women and so many

0:27:44.040 --> 0:27:47.400
<v Speaker 3>people love from that era, to then pretend you're adapting

0:27:47.400 --> 0:27:50.320
<v Speaker 3>it into television and see the halls full of women

0:27:50.320 --> 0:27:52.399
<v Speaker 3>who are hopeful that they might get to take on

0:27:52.440 --> 0:27:56.600
<v Speaker 3>this character who was empowered and different from many portrayals

0:27:56.600 --> 0:27:58.439
<v Speaker 3>of mainstream women on screen. At the time like that

0:27:58.640 --> 0:28:02.280
<v Speaker 3>just to me seems not just cruel but also really predatory.

0:28:02.080 --> 0:28:04.840
<v Speaker 2>Because he kept making money and he was the big guy,

0:28:04.960 --> 0:28:07.639
<v Speaker 2>He's the important guy. They just let it happen, and

0:28:07.640 --> 0:28:09.520
<v Speaker 2>then probably to this day that happens.

0:28:09.960 --> 0:28:11.800
<v Speaker 3>Well, hopefully not, but I'm sure it does. I'll tell

0:28:11.840 --> 0:28:13.679
<v Speaker 3>you one thing though, no one went to Morton's to

0:28:13.720 --> 0:28:16.760
<v Speaker 3>raise a drink to Harvey after he after he fell.

0:28:17.280 --> 0:28:19.960
<v Speaker 2>And there's another thing. This is sort of an aside,

0:28:20.000 --> 0:28:23.640
<v Speaker 2>but it's important to this, is that there's been questioning

0:28:23.720 --> 0:28:27.160
<v Speaker 2>lately in the research I've come across. Has Hollywood moved

0:28:27.200 --> 0:28:28.480
<v Speaker 2>on from me too?

0:28:29.200 --> 0:28:32.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I think that there's a lot of people speculated

0:28:32.720 --> 0:28:35.080
<v Speaker 3>that after the initial rush, that the pendulum would swing

0:28:35.200 --> 0:28:38.080
<v Speaker 3>back the other way and you would see a lot

0:28:38.080 --> 0:28:40.160
<v Speaker 3>of things play out in courts of law, because again,

0:28:40.280 --> 0:28:42.960
<v Speaker 3>so many of these accusations are past statutes of limitations.

0:28:43.200 --> 0:28:45.160
<v Speaker 3>But what was really interesting to me recently is the

0:28:45.200 --> 0:28:48.680
<v Speaker 3>Julia Armand case, who came forward as an accuser of

0:28:48.680 --> 0:28:51.040
<v Speaker 3>Harvey Weste but not just him, but in a lawsuit

0:28:51.160 --> 0:28:55.880
<v Speaker 3>named the Walt Disney Company and telen AGENCYCAA as complicit

0:28:56.040 --> 0:28:58.720
<v Speaker 3>in his abuse too. That's a really interesting development, and

0:28:58.760 --> 0:29:00.920
<v Speaker 3>I think the evolution of me too is that it's

0:29:00.920 --> 0:29:04.000
<v Speaker 3>not just enough to name and shame your abuser, but

0:29:04.080 --> 0:29:06.680
<v Speaker 3>also to hold accountable the systems that help them.

0:29:07.360 --> 0:29:11.320
<v Speaker 2>On that note, Matt, thank you so much for being

0:29:11.360 --> 0:29:14.920
<v Speaker 2>here today and adding all your great perspectives and insights

0:29:15.160 --> 0:29:15.680
<v Speaker 2>my pleasure.

0:29:15.680 --> 0:29:16.600
<v Speaker 3>Thanks so much for having me.

0:29:18.320 --> 0:29:21.520
<v Speaker 2>Variety Confidential is a production of Variety Content Studio and

0:29:21.560 --> 0:29:25.640
<v Speaker 2>iHeart Podcasts. It was produced by Sidney Kramer, John Ponder,

0:29:25.680 --> 0:29:28.960
<v Speaker 2>and Tracy Patton and written by John Ponder, Tracy Patton,

0:29:29.000 --> 0:29:34.280
<v Speaker 2>and Steve Gatos, with additional research by Karen Mizoguchi. Executive

0:29:34.280 --> 0:29:39.520
<v Speaker 2>producers are Dea Lawrence and Steve Gatos. Variety Confidential is recorded, edited,

0:29:39.520 --> 0:29:43.840
<v Speaker 2>and mixed at the Invisible Studios, West Hollywood. Recording engineer,

0:29:44.000 --> 0:29:46.200
<v Speaker 2>editor and mixer Charles Carroll