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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the show. My name is Matt, my name is Noel.

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Speaker 1: They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 1: super producer Alexis code named Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly,

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Speaker 1: you are you, You are here, and that makes this

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Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. It's the top

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Speaker 1: of the week, which means this is our Strange News segment.

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Speaker 1: We always find a little something off the beaten path,

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Speaker 1: and we we bring it to each other, will turn

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Speaker 1: over these ideas. We often will find more questions then

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Speaker 1: we find answers. That is very true today with especially

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Speaker 1: one story that we've already kind of touched on, but

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Speaker 1: now we're learning more and just our brains are really

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Speaker 1: Hey guys, a quick question. Now, I know we're doing

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Speaker 1: video now and this is like a new thing for us,

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Speaker 1: kind of in this format at least, But when you

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Speaker 1: got the zoom open and you know we're doing video,

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Speaker 1: do you find yourself looking at your face and and

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Speaker 1: like trying to be more animated. Do is this like

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Speaker 1: an active process that you guys have to go through,

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Speaker 1: because it is for me. I'm just putting out there.

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Speaker 1: I want to look like a U man. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to look like a robot and so here. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: It's funny because as we were gearing up to record,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you were here. We're off air

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Speaker 1: setting up the zoom call, but I was saying the

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Speaker 1: exact same thing or a very similar thing when I

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Speaker 1: was saying, does anybody else find yourself looking at the

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Speaker 1: little thumbnail of your face were in one of these calls?

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Speaker 1: And then you're kind of nodding. You're watching your own reactions.

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Speaker 1: Zoom is terrible for narcissistic tendencies. The species is gonna

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Speaker 1: be even worse. At the end of this. I have

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Speaker 1: some good news bad news for you, Ben. I'm not

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Speaker 1: looking at your face at all for reactions, very distracted

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Speaker 1: by what's happening just behind you over by the door.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's right, and Easter egg for our video friends. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I am the reason we started late today, or should

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Speaker 1: I say, are returning video accomplice. You know her, you'll

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Speaker 1: love her from the YouTube days. That is indeed, Agent

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Speaker 1: Scully took some convincing, but she's joined us in the studio.

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Speaker 1: As you could tell, she's she's snoozing one off right now.

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Speaker 1: But hopefully we'll we'll get her back in the mix

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Speaker 1: as soon as we realize we were returning to our

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Speaker 1: video roots. We knew that we couldn't do this without her.

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Speaker 1: So also to our super producer, Doc, yeah, thank thank

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Speaker 1: you for just letting us roll with this. When we

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Speaker 1: were like, now there's a skeleton. Jill and Anderson has

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Speaker 1: not aged well, you guys. She she she needs to

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Speaker 1: eat a burger or something. Um, it's good to have

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Speaker 1: her back her him. I don't know, I justid before

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Speaker 1: my time. I did, H I did. I did some

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Speaker 1: research into things you can tell about skeletons to try

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Speaker 1: to figure out the the biological you know, the biological sex.

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Speaker 1: Were fairly confident Agents Scully is female or was in

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Speaker 1: another life m But we held a vote for everyone

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Speaker 1: on YouTube, and we just want to thank everyone who

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Speaker 1: tuned in and participated that vote for not giving her

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Speaker 1: the name Alex Bones, which we were very close to.

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Speaker 1: We made it through, and speaking of making it through,

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Speaker 1: let's see, we've got some good ones today. Um, where

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Speaker 1: where where do we want to start? One of these

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Speaker 1: is like my personal hobby horse. So I feel completely

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Speaker 1: by just when I'm like, oh, I'll go well, I

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Speaker 1: kind of want to save it. If that's okay, Um,

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Speaker 1: if you guys are down, I wouldn't mind getting into

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Speaker 1: this the firsthand. If that's okay, lead the way. This

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Speaker 1: is something Matt, when you first came to us with this,

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Speaker 1: this is something that I was unaware of. And it's uh,

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Speaker 1: it's a disturbing story, especially in the implications. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: would say a lot of people were probably unaware of

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Speaker 1: this story. I certainly was until I went digging around

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Speaker 1: a bit um. And it's possibly because it almost feels

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Speaker 1: like local news, like terrible, tragic local news, but something

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Speaker 1: that occurred in one specific place. It dealt with one individual, um,

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Speaker 1: I guess who wasn't especially prominent. We have to remember

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Speaker 1: that they're tragic things that occur and horrific things that

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Speaker 1: occur every day across the globe. And you know, organizations,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about this a little later. Organizations. News

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Speaker 1: organizations get to decide what is news worthy for you

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Speaker 1: to learn about, and then has to go through a

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Speaker 1: whole other process of getting into the social media that

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Speaker 1: you may be consuming, or you know, in whatever pipeline

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Speaker 1: of content that you're consuming. So there are several steps

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Speaker 1: through which a story has to travel before it gets

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Speaker 1: to your eyes or your ears. And this is a

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Speaker 1: story that comes out of a place called Flower Mound, Texas.

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Speaker 1: It's just south of Denton, Texas. If you look at

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Speaker 1: a map, you'll see the uh it's the the Dallas

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Speaker 1: Fort Worth area, and then Denton is kind of north

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Speaker 1: of those two in a bit of a triangle. And

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Speaker 1: then just below Denton to the south is this area

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Speaker 1: called Flower Mound. And I'm just gonna read you from

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Speaker 1: this story that comes from the Dallas Morning News. This

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Speaker 1: was published on August, so a little bit before where

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Speaker 1: according this, I'm just gonna read it to you. Flower

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Speaker 1: Mound police are investigating an eighteen year old man who

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Speaker 1: was fatally shot Tuesday morning. Officers were called just before

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Speaker 1: six am to a home in this area of Flower Mound,

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Speaker 1: where they found Matthew Thayne dead. No one else was

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Speaker 1: injured in the incident. Police said they were working to

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Speaker 1: identify a suspect and added that the shooter was reported

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Speaker 1: to have been wearing a helmet. This is not believed

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Speaker 1: to be a random act, according to officials, and police

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Speaker 1: said they have no reason to believe the attacker is

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Speaker 1: still in the area. So this was published again on

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Speaker 1: the eighteenth. There was a Tuesday night. That was the

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Speaker 1: day that Matthew Thane was slain. Um he was eighteen

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Speaker 1: years old. Well, we know, we we've learned quite a

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Speaker 1: bit since that initial published story. But just on the

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Speaker 1: surface of it, a young man was killed, and um,

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Speaker 1: that's very sad, no matter what the cocumstance and are

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Speaker 1: you know, of course our hearts go out to you know,

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Speaker 1: the family and friends of Matthew Thayne, the victim. The

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Speaker 1: reason why we're talking about it today is because Matthew

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Speaker 1: Thain did something that a lot of us probably do

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Speaker 1: who are listening right now, I would say a good

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Speaker 1: number of us do. Um, and even more of us

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Speaker 1: participate in it without actually doing it. Sounds a little vague.

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Speaker 1: Matthew Thayne was a twitch gamer, a Twitch streamer, so

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Speaker 1: he would play video games and others would watch. As

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Speaker 1: you know, he is playing his game, he would interact

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Speaker 1: with people watching and in part of his interactions, like

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Speaker 1: a lot of other streamers. There can be some, um,

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Speaker 1: some things that happened that aren't maybe the nicest, uh you.

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Speaker 1: Some people call it cyber bullying, some people liking it

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Speaker 1: to other things. But there is a lot of times

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Speaker 1: in those environments when you have a streamer who's on

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Speaker 1: one side of the camera and then a lot of

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Speaker 1: viewers on the other side of the camera, there can

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Speaker 1: be a tension there, and it's something that humanity is

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Speaker 1: learning to deal with. I would say we're evolving, right,

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Speaker 1: We're we're evolving in our interactions online. We have been

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Speaker 1: since we had the ability to type something up and

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Speaker 1: somebody else across the world could read it, right. Sure, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I'm just sorry, I'm just laughing because I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: conflate that with positive progress in all senses. Right, we're

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Speaker 1: finding new ways to ridicule each other's mothers, uh, to

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Speaker 1: threaten each other. Uh. Like, I see what you're saying though,

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Speaker 1: because we are communicators. Uh, it's one of our primary

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Speaker 1: superpowers as a species. But it just I just feel

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Speaker 1: like we're also seeing a lot of very ugly things. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I mean we we always We've talked about this

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Speaker 1: a lot, but just the whole nature of anonymity on

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Speaker 1: the Internet really empowers the worst impulses and people a

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Speaker 1: lot of time times where they feel protected and uh,

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Speaker 1: the ability to kind of target people or bully people,

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Speaker 1: or docs people or do any number of like internet

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Speaker 1: based kind of scare tactics. Really, I mean, it's almost

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Speaker 1: like Internet I don't know, I want to go to

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Speaker 1: of reward terrorism, like where you can really terrorize individuals, uh,

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Speaker 1: and it can spill over into the real world, I think,

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Speaker 1: which is what I think you're you're getting out here

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Speaker 1: with this story. And it freaks me out because, I mean,

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Speaker 1: talk about growing up on the Internet. I think the

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Speaker 1: three of us were sort of like came in when

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Speaker 1: dial up was still a thing. That's when we were younger,

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Speaker 1: and then you know, cable modems and dsls would really

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Speaker 1: like cracked all that wide open um. So we certainly,

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Speaker 1: you know, we evolved a kind of along with it.

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Speaker 1: But like my kid, uh just literally has grown up

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Speaker 1: on and it's just second nature, and like that's the way,

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Speaker 1: especially with all this remote school basically the exclusive form

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Speaker 1: of how she gets her social interactions in and she's

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Speaker 1: very aware of all of this stuff and cyber bullying

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Speaker 1: and being able to p text her identity and protect her,

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Speaker 1: you know, actual personal details, because there's all that. You

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Speaker 1: never know who's able to someone you think you're friends with.

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Speaker 1: Quote unquote, what's the criteria for having an internet friend?

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Speaker 1: You don't really have to vet them that heavily, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's not the same as knowing somebody in

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Speaker 1: person and maybe knowing their family or knowing things about

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Speaker 1: them and how they behave in real life, you know

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Speaker 1: for sure. Anyway, Sorry, I feel like we derailed you

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Speaker 1: because you were definitely going somewhere. It's okay, Well, who

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Speaker 1: knows who knows? With me? You guys, we we might

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Speaker 1: be going somewhere. We might just be coasting and then

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Speaker 1: looking around at all the weird things occurring. That's that's

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Speaker 1: generally how I like. Well, wherever, wherever we're going, we're

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Speaker 1: along for the ride man, Okay, perfect. So so. Matt

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Speaker 1: Matthew was was a Twitch streamer. According to some social

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Speaker 1: media posts by the family, he went by jp N

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Speaker 1: that was his tag or Japan and according to the family,

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Speaker 1: called Duty was one of the main games that he played.

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Speaker 1: For anyone who's unfamiliar, it is a warfare game that

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Speaker 1: has evolved over the years where it is a first

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Speaker 1: person shooter where you take the perspective of a person

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Speaker 1: with a gun and you fire at other players and

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Speaker 1: you generally score points I guess, and are victorious by

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Speaker 1: killing more people than your opponents. UM. This game and

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Speaker 1: others like it, we as we've talked about on the

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Speaker 1: show before, have been criticized heavily over the years. A

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Speaker 1: lot has been written about them about whether or not

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Speaker 1: they can affect um psychologically those who play them. You know,

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Speaker 1: we've discussed this at length about how much validity there

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Speaker 1: is to some of the thinking there. Um, I believe

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Speaker 1: we came away from this kind of on a middle

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Speaker 1: ground where it does it doesn't appear to have a

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Speaker 1: direct effect, but there is something to be said kind

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Speaker 1: of on the periphery of our understanding even about what

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Speaker 1: these types of games can do to us. Again, because

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Speaker 1: just as in our online communications, this is evolving as well.

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Speaker 1: Like the the experiences that we can give each other

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Speaker 1: through video gaming and virtual reality experiences and all these things,

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Speaker 1: we're just we're really just learning it. We're at our

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Speaker 1: we're in our infancy of these things. And importantly, uh

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Speaker 1: the research since we've had that conversation has changed. I

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Speaker 1: keep track of this stuff. We have to remember this

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Speaker 1: kind of communication, this this medium is evolving so quickly

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Speaker 1: and it's so relatively new that we don't have the

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Speaker 1: luxury of say a intergenerational or fifty year longitudal study

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Speaker 1: saying something like group A was raised with it was

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Speaker 1: raised with Call of Duty or whatever, and this is

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Speaker 1: the activity in their brain compared to group B, which

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Speaker 1: was just raised with the thing. Uh, you know and

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Speaker 1: love boomer audience of insert science journal here, checkers and uh,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, part cheesy or you know, if you

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Speaker 1: look at my my all of my games over here,

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Speaker 1: maybe just risk risk is at the bottom there. Maybe

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Speaker 1: just played that game. Well, I have a quick question

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Speaker 1: for you guys, Like I mean, Call of Duty has

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Speaker 1: obviously been around for a long time. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of iterations of that game. I don't know

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Speaker 1: the answer to this, and I'm sure there are tons

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Speaker 1: of super young people to play it, But do you

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Speaker 1: think the youngest of the young gamers are more playing

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Speaker 1: things like Fortnite? And uh, what's that other one that's

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Speaker 1: a little more cartoony and a little less like real life? Uh?

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Speaker 1: You know Shooter, h what's it called? I love that.

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Speaker 1: No Minecraft in the shooter real matting. I feel like

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Speaker 1: I feel like Fortnite and Overwatch are the big ones

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Speaker 1: for the younger crowd. And I definitely know young people

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Speaker 1: play Call of Duty and there's a big one that

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Speaker 1: just came out, this war Zone or whatever. And I

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Speaker 1: have found though that whenever I tried getting into Call

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Speaker 1: of Duty, and I just find that a lot of

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Speaker 1: people that are on, they're really mean. Not only that

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Speaker 1: they will snipe you from like miles away and just like,

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Speaker 1: you know, totally harass you just in the game, but

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Speaker 1: they're just like they use a lot of kind of

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Speaker 1: racially charged language and like a lot of homophobia. Yeah. No, definitely, um,

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Speaker 1: and maybe that's Internet in general. And I'm just naive

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Speaker 1: because I don't play a lot of games with just

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Speaker 1: like open anyone that can be on is on. But

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Speaker 1: that's kind of the nature of those And I was

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Speaker 1: shocked one time where I had Call of Duty on

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Speaker 1: and I quit the game but it was still connected

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Speaker 1: to the chat on my TV and realize it and

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, there's just like this just string

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Speaker 1: of like you know, homophobic expletives coming out of my

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Speaker 1: TV and I was just like, oh my god, like

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Speaker 1: like my mom was over. But I don't know, like,

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Speaker 1: do you feel like there's a I don't know, a

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Speaker 1: division with like the Age, like with like Call of

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Speaker 1: Duty versus these other games that are a little less

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Speaker 1: overtly bloody. Uh, and I feel creative. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I don't think so. I mean, maybe there's a general trend,

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Speaker 1: but having the agency to choose the game one personally

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Speaker 1: wishes to play means that there will be demographic trends,

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Speaker 1: but ultimately, every person, as a unit of the gameplay

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Speaker 1: can make their own choice. There are people who are

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Speaker 1: into all kinds of weird things that might really surprise you, right,

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Speaker 1: But I think Call of Duty here is mainly important

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Speaker 1: because we're talking about Matthew Thay. Yeah, we're talking about

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Speaker 1: Matthew Thaine being shot at his home, and um, the

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Speaker 1: reason why it's significant is because the authorities are investigating.

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Speaker 1: They're not sure at this point, at least according to

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Speaker 1: the reporting that I've seen on this, but they are

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Speaker 1: investigating whether or not Matthew's death was related to a

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Speaker 1: gaming dispute, specifically within Call of Duty, within the realm

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Speaker 1: of twitch streaming that Matthew was doing. So there is

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Speaker 1: a another story that was published on August one that

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Speaker 1: is a follow up to Matthew's death and the title

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Speaker 1: of this article is Flower Mount teens killer may have

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Speaker 1: driven from California to settle video game feud. Authorities say,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to read a bit of this again from

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Speaker 1: the Dallas Morning News. This was written by Tom Steele.

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Speaker 1: The now dead suspect in the slaying of a Flower

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Speaker 1: Mound eighteen year old may have driven from California to

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Speaker 1: Texas to settle a dispute that began in a video game.

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Speaker 1: Officers were called shortly before six am Tuesday, this is

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Speaker 1: about Matthew's death to to find Matthew. According to a

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Speaker 1: police spokesman, the attacker lured Thane outside by setting a

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Speaker 1: propane tank at the back of the home on fire.

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Speaker 1: Police said at the time the gunman was wearing a

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Speaker 1: helmet and they had no reason to believe that he

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Speaker 1: was still in the area. And I just want to

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Speaker 1: stop here for a second because in a lot of

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Speaker 1: these games, the objective is to strategically kill more people

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Speaker 1: than your opponents, right, and the strategies used to do that.

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Speaker 1: A lot of times have to do with flanking, with

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Speaker 1: setting up something like a distraction, um, doing things very

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Speaker 1: similar to what appears to have happened in this real

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Speaker 1: life example where a young man was killed. The the

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Speaker 1: concept of setting a propane tank a light in the

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Speaker 1: backyard to get your intended victim outside to then shoot him.

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Speaker 1: I mean that sounds like video game thinking to me.

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Speaker 1: And that's why perhaps it is if true, if you

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Speaker 1: know what the police believe is true, then this would

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Speaker 1: be just um, this would be terrible and terrifying. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting because when you told us about this, uh,

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Speaker 1: the there does seem to be a suspect, right, So

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Speaker 1: it goes to the question of um, I guess very similitude,

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Speaker 1: because we if we spend a lot of time mentally

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Speaker 1: in one place or in one state, then we we

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Speaker 1: start to transfer that perspective into the waking world. A less, uh,

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Speaker 1: a less complicated version of this tendency can be seen

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Speaker 1: with Tetris. One interesting thing about the game of Tetris

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Speaker 1: is that you know, it's built to be addictive. It's

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Speaker 1: built to get to fire those right parts of your

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Speaker 1: brain and get you to continue playing and after a

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Speaker 1: certain threshold. Uh, and overwhelming majority of people start saying

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Speaker 1: that they just sort of think and dream of the

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Speaker 1: shapes of Tetris and with Call of Duty or with

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Speaker 1: any game. Really the question of which game is, which

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Speaker 1: is kind of irrelevant. We're saying is if you are

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Speaker 1: inundated in this virtual environment, then everything else sort of

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Speaker 1: starts to become visible through that lens, even when you're unplugged. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And this, I don't think they have identified uh, any

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Speaker 1: kind of suspect outside of an age right in age range. No,

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Speaker 1: they they have identified a sea Okay, who is do

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Speaker 1: we have? Yeah? We I do not have a name

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Speaker 1: at this point. We know that it is a twenty

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Speaker 1: three year old California man that was at least an

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Speaker 1: acquaintance or an online acquaintance of some sort to Thane,

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Speaker 1: to Matthew and apparently this person after they investigated Matthew

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Speaker 1: Than's home. They identified this person as a potential suspect

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Speaker 1: who was way out in California. Yeah. I guess that's

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying. I say they have identified him only

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Speaker 1: by age or a location. I should have been more

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Speaker 1: clear and said they haven't publicly announced this suspects name correct, correct, absolutely, yes,

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Speaker 1: So they identified that this person may be involved. Police

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Speaker 1: in California went to Pleasanton in the town where this

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Speaker 1: twenty three year old suspect lived, and they obtained a

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Speaker 1: search warrant for this man's home, and when they got there,

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Speaker 1: they discovered that he had um committed suicide by gunshot

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Speaker 1: in his home, or at least it appears that he

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Speaker 1: has he had committed suicide in his home and allegedly

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Speaker 1: this was as the officers were approaching his residence, that's

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Speaker 1: when he killed himself. Um. The official cause of death

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Speaker 1: has not been released. Again, that is what the authorities

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Speaker 1: have stated that it's appeared to have occurred. And this

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Speaker 1: article from the Dallas News there also says that the

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Speaker 1: Flower Mount Police said evidence recovered from that home was

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Speaker 1: linked to Matthew Thain's death and they would release more

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Speaker 1: info after confirming that the California man was in fact

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Speaker 1: the killer's twenty five hours. By the way, you go, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so you could do you could do the turnaround quickly

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Speaker 1: would be it would be pretty brutal. It makes you

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Speaker 1: wonder they probably stopped halfway somewhere. Well, I mean, it

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Speaker 1: occurred that Matthew Thain's death occurred on Tuesday evening were

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Speaker 1: on Tuesday, and then he was found in his home

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Speaker 1: the next day in California. So he literally drove from

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Speaker 1: California to Texas to do this and then drove right.

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Speaker 1: But I wonder if it was one of those situations

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Speaker 1: like that, remember that astronaut situation. I can't remember her name,

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Speaker 1: but she drove with a diaper on, like a really

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Speaker 1: long distance to confront or like a ex husband or

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Speaker 1: something like that, or it wasn't as far of a distance.

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Speaker 1: I believe her thing was planning astronauts and meticulous planners.

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Speaker 1: So her her thing was, is uh, planning to minimize

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Speaker 1: her drive time basically because if you have enough gas,

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Speaker 1: then you know, bio breaks are the only bio breaks

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Speaker 1: in the unfortunate design flaw of sleep are the only

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Speaker 1: thing keeping you from going continually. But when people have

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Speaker 1: mania or when they're having a break of some sort,

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Speaker 1: time does get different. You know, time time is not uh,

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Speaker 1: you don't experience fatigue in the same way I would imagine,

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Speaker 1: at least subjectively objectively, your body is still wearing down, right,

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Speaker 1: we know that. But now they so they're saying there's

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Speaker 1: more evidence coming out or that they will have more

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Speaker 1: announcements in the next few days. Uh, what do you

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Speaker 1: think is gonna becoming this man? You know, I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: unsure for Matthew Faine's family and friends. Um, they're forced

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Speaker 1: to deal with the death of a loved one, and

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Speaker 1: for whoever this um attacker was killer, they are also

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Speaker 1: having to deal with the death of their loved one.

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Speaker 1: And the real, the real question here is what caused

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Speaker 1: this to occur? And you know how many other people

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Speaker 1: out there are dealing with some frustration or issue that

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Speaker 1: that this killer was dealing with. You know that perhaps

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Speaker 1: could be perhaps, and I can't speak for everyone in

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Speaker 1: every situation, but perhaps could be handled with just a

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Speaker 1: little personal connection or somebody to talk to to work

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Speaker 1: through something like that. Well, sure, you know, it certainly

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Speaker 1: seems like a case of undiagnosed or possibly diagnosed and

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Speaker 1: just un you know, uh acknowledged in this situation in

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Speaker 1: terms of how it escalated mental illness. You know, I

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Speaker 1: mean to have that level of fixation based around a game,

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Speaker 1: which can you know, exacerbate those kind of things if

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Speaker 1: you're prone to isolation, or if you're prone to depression,

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Speaker 1: or if you're prone to kind of delusions of grandeur

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Speaker 1: or whatever. Like it certainly is something that can really

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Speaker 1: push that stuff to the next level. Like I have

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Speaker 1: a friend who, um, you know, struggles with depression and

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Speaker 1: has found a community in online gaming. And sometimes it's

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Speaker 1: like you just disappear into it and and and it

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Speaker 1: becomes your whole world. And if something in that world

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Speaker 1: triggers you or see some someone wrongs you within the

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Speaker 1: rules or that are established by this basically fantasy existence,

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Speaker 1: it can have real ramifications in the real world. And

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Speaker 1: sometimes people might just hurt themselves. In this case, both

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Speaker 1: things happen. I get very very strange messages when I

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Speaker 1: was working my way up the ranks of Teken online,

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Speaker 1: just because it seems cheaper to go outside. People do

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Speaker 1: have first little bit like I'm not gonna I don't

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Speaker 1: think we need an anecdote because everybody listening to this show,

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Speaker 1: this is a podcast where this is all on YouTube.

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Speaker 1: You know some one who has experienced this. You may

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Speaker 1: have experienced this. There's nothing wrong with loving a game

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Speaker 1: and getting very into it. I don't want to put

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Speaker 1: my own narrative on this, but it sounds like we're

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Speaker 1: asking what else might be out there. Is there going

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Speaker 1: to be maybe a trend or is there already a

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Speaker 1: trend of things like this? But I don't know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: maybe that's completely not what you were thinking that, But

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm I just keep remembering, you know, every almost

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Speaker 1: every mass shooting we hear about in the US, especially

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Speaker 1: in earlier years, there was some kind of video game

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Speaker 1: angle that an anchor or a pundit would sort of

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Speaker 1: put on it, you know what I mean, like the

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Speaker 1: teens in column by. But's your question, Noal, is that

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Speaker 1: just is playing? Is playing these games? You know, it's

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Speaker 1: correlation versus causation right where they just playing because they

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Speaker 1: were already trying to escape some very painful circumstances or

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Speaker 1: some very troubling states of being or invasive thoughts. I

429
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 1: don't think we can play him a video game, no,

430
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,120
Speaker 1: I mean, and then then not to be too silly

431
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: about it, but it's like I play a ton of

432
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: online Mario Kart, and I'm not gonna go driving around

433
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:17,919
Speaker 1: thinking that I can shoot turtles at people or like

434
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: slip on banana peals in my you know, sedan. But

435
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 1: on the on the other hand, I can't be the

436
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 1: only person who every so often just like checked the

437
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: handles of locked cars and parking lots after playing Grand

438
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,199
Speaker 1: Theft Auto five for too long. It just like the

439
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: normal thing you would do. It's it's true. Um, well,

440
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,679
Speaker 1: it'll be interesting to follow this. I don't know, like

441
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 1: it seems like it's case closed. I know there's a

442
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 1: go fund me campaign for the young man that was killed.

443
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: That's that's almost met its goal. Um, you know, to

444
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 1: to raise money for funeral expenses and obviously just to

445
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 1: help the family. Uh. If you want to check that out,

446
00:26:58,119 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: you can go to go fund me and look for

447
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 1: Matthew Thane Memorial. Um. And they've raised twenty three thousand,

448
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: six h of a dollar goal, which will hopefully be

449
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 1: higher by the time this comes out. I'm certain of it.

450
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 1: Just as a closing piece here, I don't know if

451
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: you can see this on the on the video here,

452
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 1: but this is Call of Duty Mobile and I play

453
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: this game absolutely every day, and I I love competitive

454
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: games like this that our first person shooter that have

455
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 1: violence in them. I want everyone out there listening to

456
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 1: not feel weird for enjoying a game like that. I

457
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,199
Speaker 1: don't want you to think that we're talking down to

458
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: you for liking those kinds of games. UM, yeah, well

459
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,400
Speaker 1: I know we that's the I just want you. I'm

460
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: speaking directly to you, whoever you are. UM, just remember

461
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: you know that that is not you know, it's not reality.

462
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: It's it's wonderful, it's fun. And anything that occurs in

463
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: those games, no matter how much it it feels like

464
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: it's affecting. Right now, I promise you you're gonna be okay,

465
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: and you know, reach out, talk to somebody if you

466
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: need any help whatsoever. I just want to leave everybody

467
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 1: with that. And UM, if you do want to find me,

468
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 1: I'm on Call of Duty Mobile. I'm std w y

469
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 1: t K, just like our number. If you want to

470
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 1: play a game, let's play a game, add me. Let's

471
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 1: do this and let's be competitive and have fun. Doesn't

472
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: have to ever lead to something like that. Agreed, And

473
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 1: on that note, wanted to take a quick sponsor break

474
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: and then come back with some more strange news and

475
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: we're back. I believe our next story addresses uh some

476
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: similar ideas about life in a virtual world versus life

477
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: in the analog or biological one. And this is this

478
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: is part of something that I am convinced has to

479
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 1: be a full episode in the future. Yeah, and and

480
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: and with that in mind, I think we'll probably just

481
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: touch on it a little bit because it's a it's

482
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: a really interesting divisive issue where I'm not even quite

483
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 1: sure what to make of it yet, and I think

484
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: we're all kind of on the same page. But it's

485
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 1: about Facebook and the way it's sort of battling with

486
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: this notion that it is either on the one hand,

487
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: anti conservative or like, you know, actively it's it's it's

488
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: a it's an argument that a lot of conservatives make

489
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: about uh, Silicon Valley in general and things like Twitter

490
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: and you know, all of these platforms that they're actively

491
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: filtering out conservative or more right wing viewpoints. And then

492
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: on the other hand, there's a there's a lot of

493
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 1: discussion internally from employees at Facebook that they are actively

494
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: pro conservative um. And that's really interesting, And it's not

495
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: about the political bias or whatever, like like Ben was saying,

496
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 1: it would be just as troubling if they were actively

497
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: being anti liberal or anti left wing or anti some

498
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 1: particular issue. The idea is that they're supposed to be

499
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 1: an arbiter of free speech and that they shouldn't be

500
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: laying favorites one way or the other. So the politics

501
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: part of this is really kind of just secondary to

502
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: just the amount of control that a company like Facebook has,

503
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: especially when you consider the fact that, like, I mean,

504
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: let's be real, guys, Facebook is a monopoly, you know,

505
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 1: over our information. The fact that they can just kind

506
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: of buy up competitors that are developing things that they

507
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: want to be in control of, you know, intellectual property technology,

508
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: like they basically just bought up Instagram for a gazillion dollars.

509
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 1: I'm not quoting. That is just a you know, a guestimate,

510
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: because they wanted to have that technology. They wanted to

511
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: have that platform for themselves, rather than develop something themselves

512
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: and compete in like a free, fair market kind of way.

513
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: So that part in and of itself is is a

514
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: little bit troubling. And this control over information, especially during

515
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: an election that's probably going to be the most remote

516
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: election in the history of elections in terms of people

517
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: not wanting to go to the polls, in terms of

518
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 1: people you know, using mail in ballots and absentee ballots

519
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: more than ever before, and they're being this potential lag in. Uh,

520
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: you know, when the ballots are cast and when the

521
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: results are in, and so let's it's a big topic

522
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: and then and we we we can just kind of

523
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: divide it up a little bit into a couple of

524
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 1: a couple of buckets. I guess um. One is about

525
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: the fact checking program that Facebook has. And there's an

526
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: article that BuzzFeed published on auguste, like Craig Silverman and

527
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: Brian Mack. The headline is Facebook's preferential treatment of US

528
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 1: conservatives puts its fact checking program in danger. Um. So

529
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 1: let's just really quickly talk a little bit about what

530
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: this fact checking program is. It's essentially a rank that

531
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: supposedly third party fact checkers give to the veracity of

532
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: of articles content, whether it's false or misleading, or inflammatory

533
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: or overly what's the word sensational, I guess um. And

534
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: that can include things like ads that are pro uh

535
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: pro pro choice that maybe have images of fetuses, or

536
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 1: things that are like you know, meant to trigger you

537
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: and and and could could be considered inflammatory, or things

538
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: like fake news, the idea of reporting something that isn't

539
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: true or is his patently false or is somewhere in

540
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: the middle. Um. And Facebook has been caught essentially kind

541
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: of messing with those stats in terms of you know,

542
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: which types which sites get rankings cleared more quickly. Uh,

543
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 1: there was like a case of a bright Bart article

544
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: where their internal flagging system, you know, flagged it as

545
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: being potentially false, and then someone within Facebook removed that

546
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 1: flag by the end of the day and the article

547
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: was allowed to stick around. So let's start with the

548
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 1: whole idea of flagging content and having independent fact checkers

549
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: and where that problem lies. If there's no transparency, I

550
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: think there's a major issue here, and it's a problem

551
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 1: that is very much an onion that you have to

552
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: begin drilling down into. Right. First of all, we're talking

553
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: about social media platforms, where in human beings who are

554
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: using it supposedly have, at least if they're operating within

555
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: the United States and its territories, they have First Amendment rights,

556
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: which means they can say whatever they want right. Anyone

557
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: can say whatever you want essentially right to an extent.

558
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: But then you drill down a little bit further. We

559
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: have social norms that we've all adopted that very you know,

560
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: in on an individual level, but you know, overall, we've

561
00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: decided what we can and cannot mention or beliefs that

562
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: we can or cannot put forward as our beliefs because

563
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 1: they're taboo or they're out of bounds or so incorrect

564
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: and against what the whole believes, or at least the

565
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: majority believes, that we just cannot type them or state them.

566
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: Then you get down even further than you're talking about

567
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: institutions like, um, I think there's Praeger this is one

568
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: that was mentioned in a bus speed university. Like an institution.

569
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 1: Who is that is making a statement? Right that appears

570
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: to be a fact and may not be a fact. Um,

571
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 1: we have to decide, like on which of those levels

572
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 1: and and where do we want to draw the line? Right?

573
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,399
Speaker 1: Should everyone be able to say anything they want to say?

574
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 1: If no, then should institutions? I don't know. I think

575
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: like if we don't, If we don't address that first one, right,

576
00:34:57,680 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: the free speech angle, then how do you get in

577
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 1: to any of the other things. But there's a difference

578
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:06,839
Speaker 1: here because these are private entities, so they own their

579
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 1: own lawn, you know what I mean? The people have

580
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 1: id to cavort. Just walk with me a second, because

581
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: this this is a crucial argument that hinges on something

582
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 1: in the communications Decency Act Section two thirty A k A.

583
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: It's the reason I don't know if this is in

584
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 1: the article you're looking at, No, but it's the reason

585
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 1: that uh, Twitter and Facebook and all their ilk have

586
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:35,399
Speaker 1: not been sued into oblivion. The reason they haven't been obviated,

587
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 1: and it's the idea that they are simply UH platform

588
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 1: for other people's ideas. So if somebody of for instance,

589
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 1: post something hateful and discriminatory on Twitter, Twitter is not

590
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 1: getting sued for hate speech right because of this kind

591
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 1: of legislation. Interestingly, an UF earlier this year, UH, the

592
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: current president of the US as we record this, Donald Trump,

593
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: signed an executive order trying to get section to thirty

594
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: removed because he wants a well, because he likes it

595
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: if he feels like it gets along with him, and

596
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 1: he's angry if he feels like it disagrees with him.

597
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 1: And isn't that basically the basis of the free and

598
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 1: open Internet, Like without that, there's gonna be so much

599
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: potential for a litigation that no one's gonna be able

600
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 1: to publish anything, no one's gonna be able to share

601
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 1: any free thought because these platforms are going to be

602
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: on the hook for everyone else's ideas, and therefore they're

603
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 1: gonna be so protective of of who gets to post

604
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 1: on their platform that you're not gonna have access to

605
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: anything beyond just whatever the most safe line is, right,

606
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: I would, I would argue that's not a bug. That's

607
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 1: a feature for the group that continually has wished for

608
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: a less free internet. I mean, the same people who

609
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 1: want your your website browsing to be sold to you

610
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 1: the way tiered cable packages were sold by Google premium.

611
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: By being signature. I guess doesn't that also limit like

612
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 1: I mean, look again the politics of secondary here. But

613
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 1: you know, we know Trump has made some inflammatory statements

614
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 1: that that that were fact checked and proved to be untrue.

615
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: Doesn't that limit his platform, his platform of choice being Twitter,

616
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 1: and his ability to like go on there and say

617
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,800
Speaker 1: whatever he wants and then have that freedom of speech.

618
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: Doesn't this shut that ability down for him? It's part

619
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: of a It's a noodle in a larger spaghetti dish

620
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 1: of terrible, terrible things. Honestly, the the argument about upon

621
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: whose shoulders the liability for hate speech or incitement to

622
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 1: violence rest you know what I mean, I've said it

623
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: for a very long time. There are more and more

624
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,280
Speaker 1: things to look at, right, but they're fewer, few fewer

625
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 1: and fewer and fewer people in charge of the screens

626
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 1: that let you see those things. Right. It's like Disney.

627
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: What did Disney by today while we were recording this?

628
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: Did they buy like my cats? Did they buy the

629
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,320
Speaker 1: idea of all cats? Maybe? I'm literally gonna go to

630
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: duck dot go right now and see what did Disney

631
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 1: buy recently? Is that? Like ask jeeves, what what are

632
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 1: you going? Is that? Is that a thing? Is there

633
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: a reason to use that search? It gives you Google

634
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:42,439
Speaker 1: without all of Google's clingy information. I learned something new today.

635
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: I didn't know this. This is great, Thank you guys.

636
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 1: Been done. Yeah, none of it was consistent. It looks

637
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,439
Speaker 1: like Fox is the last thing. Okay, all right, well

638
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: that's a big one really quickly and then we can

639
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:55,839
Speaker 1: we can tell the move. I just wanted to go

640
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 1: into a little bit about this whole process that they

641
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 1: have because I was sort of brushed over it early on.

642
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:04,479
Speaker 1: But they do have a set of third party fact

643
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 1: checkers that assign a rating to these pieces of content

644
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 1: um and based on those ratings, Facebook applies a label,

645
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: and it can be demoted, the content can be demoted,

646
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: which I think is kind of like search engine optimization,

647
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: like if you're if your quote unquote putting out low

648
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 1: quality content, you get demoted in the search ranking. So

649
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,399
Speaker 1: I think that's similar to what this is what's going

650
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 1: on here. But they also have a system of strikes

651
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 1: against their preferred news partners, which again is folks like BuzzFeed,

652
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: the Washington Post, and yes, bright Bart. And in this article,

653
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 1: a lot there was there's a discussion that's going on

654
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 1: in this internal Facebook platform called work work Day or workforce,

655
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 1: I think that's what it's called. And a lot of

656
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:52,919
Speaker 1: employees were wondering why brightbart is allowed to continue being

657
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: one of these preferred news organizations when they consistently have

658
00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 1: published uh misinformation. Um. There an article or a video

659
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 1: rather that got I think fourteen million views in about

660
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 1: six hours because of how prominently it was promoted on Facebook,

661
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: and it it promoted um uh you know mask like

662
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 1: like the idea that masks weren't necessary, um and you know,

663
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: uh put forth some dubious science behind that, and it

664
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: was actually removed from Breitbart's page after being challenged enough.

665
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 1: But in that period of time, it racked up all

666
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,879
Speaker 1: those views that would be considered a strike, and Zuckerberg

667
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,319
Speaker 1: said that this is a strike, but we're not going

668
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 1: to demote them because they've only had one strike in

669
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 1: the last ninety days. But then internally there was some

670
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 1: evidence of that the strikes were cleared by some unknown

671
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: individual within that has access to the system. And again,

672
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,720
Speaker 1: like you're saying, Prager University, a couple of other ones,

673
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:56,760
Speaker 1: let's see, there was also Diamond and silk Uh, Charlie Kirk,

674
00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 1: Turning Point USA, UM, some other kind of far or

675
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 1: right wing outlets that were kind of having these black

676
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,720
Speaker 1: marks stricken from their record, um and in an effort

677
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 1: to kind of game the system. Well, just to step

678
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: in here. We all, we've talked about this before. We

679
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 1: have to remember this Facebook. As much as you want

680
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 1: it to be the place where you connect with your family,

681
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: and that's what it's meant to be. No, Facebook is

682
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: an advertising and data collection platform. That is what it is.

683
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: That is what all social media is. Doesn't matter how

684
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: much you love it, what you think it is. They

685
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 1: are designed to make money for the people who designed

686
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 1: them by selling ads to all of these bigger corporations.

687
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:42,359
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter how where they politically lie. If their

688
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 1: ad dollars are good and those checks clear, good to go. UM.

689
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 1: And of course that any company can have what a mission,

690
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 1: statement and values and all of those things, however they

691
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 1: want to play it or at least publicly put out there.

692
00:41:57,960 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: But in the end, it's the bottom line for these

693
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 1: and you you gotta remember that no matter what's what

694
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 1: is written in those ads, no matter what's shared on

695
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 1: those posts, that data can then get um gathered up

696
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 1: and sold to bulk of Bayer sure like a third party.

697
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 1: And the terms of service can change without your consent

698
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 1: or without notifying you, and is as innocuous as this

699
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 1: stuff might seem. Shout out to everybody wrote in regarding

700
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: uh the yes or nos of d N A collection,

701
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: especially on Here's where it gets crazy our Facebook page.

702
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 1: Blackstone just bought ancestry dot com dot dot dot dot boom.

703
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 1: So with this point you have, you're you're right this

704
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 1: private industry institutions and companies, they are capitalistic endeavors. They

705
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,359
Speaker 1: would not exist if this were not the case. And

706
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 1: with the consideration of that, I would like to point

707
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 1: out also, um and stop me if we mentioned this

708
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:02,360
Speaker 1: and I somehow missed it. Uh. Back in Facebook announced

709
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 1: their plans to pay Bright part for content they were

710
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 1: paying these other publisher arms, and it was messaged out

711
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,919
Speaker 1: as a way of giving them extended security in these

712
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 1: our uncertain days. But that gets us to another sticky

713
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 1: issue with journalism and accuracy and reporting. If we're paying

714
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 1: these things to churn content for us, and then we're

715
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:34,720
Speaker 1: also saying with the other hand that we are, uh,

716
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 1: we are somehow walking away from money. Right. All of

717
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 1: most of the the Facebook's money is generated by the engagement

718
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 1: of people reading stuff they see and reacting to it.

719
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: Whether or not it's real doesn't matter to the bottom

720
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 1: line to your point, Matt, So, so now they have

721
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: these conflicting aims, and what price do we put on

722
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 1: the truth? By the way, I'm not the fan of

723
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 1: section to thirty. I think it's real dilemma because if

724
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: we don't hold these platforms responsible in some way, then

725
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 1: there's there's nothing stopping them other than business leaving. There's

726
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 1: nothing stopping them from doing whatever the hell they want.

727
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,280
Speaker 1: So you do have to have some sort of fact checking.

728
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 1: But I think to your point, Noel, it's uh who

729
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: prioritizes what is considered a fact and when it is

730
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 1: considered a fact, that's right. And also just the murkiness

731
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: of the whole process, you know what I mean, Like

732
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 1: they say, oh, we rely on these third party fact checkers,

733
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 1: but we really have no insight into the process, especially

734
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 1: if you know, at the end of the day, they're

735
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 1: not held to these standards. They it's just an optical thing.

736
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: Like it's literally saying, no, we have these different organizations,

737
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 1: media outlets that have different viewpoints that are giving us

738
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 1: unbiased Um, you know, uh, fact checking. But who's to

739
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 1: say that they have to abide by that, you know

740
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 1: what I mean. It's it's not something that's not like

741
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 1: it's a law. It's not like there's some kind of

742
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:03,440
Speaker 1: legislation that's holding them to do this. It's all internal

743
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:05,840
Speaker 1: and and the thing that really confuses issue for me

744
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,280
Speaker 1: speaking of internal stuff, and then we'll move on. Uh,

745
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 1: there's another article that came out today, uh saying or

746
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 1: actually I'm sorry. A couple of days ago, Facebook commissioned

747
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 1: a study of alleged anti conservative bias and here's what

748
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 1: it found. And it was it was done by a

749
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:27,760
Speaker 1: former Republican senator by the name of John Kyle UM

750
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 1: and his colleagues at the law firm Covington and Burling

751
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 1: lll P. And they looked into this notion that that

752
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 1: you know, frankly has been put forth by members of

753
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 1: the Conservative Party and folks McDonald Trump that uh, Facebook

754
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:47,760
Speaker 1: is patently anti conservative or anti right wing. And the

755
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 1: study found that they had taken some measures to for example,

756
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,759
Speaker 1: it really leaned more heavily on things like anti abortion

757
00:45:56,239 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: ads UM that often have very triggering kind of uh,

758
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 1: you know, upsetting images of whether it's fetuses or people

759
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 1: that are sick or you know, hooked up to hospital

760
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 1: equipment and and um, something that would maybe you know,

761
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: triggering to some people and unpleasant, and the idea that

762
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 1: it's inflammatory. Uh, they have adjusted their UM their policies

763
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:24,320
Speaker 1: or their auto image you know recognition things to allow

764
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:27,359
Speaker 1: images of people with medical tubes as long as they're

765
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 1: not invisible pain or distress and there are no blood

766
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:34,280
Speaker 1: or bruises. Uh. And that's something that could benefit folks

767
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 1: who post ads for pro life organizations and also UM

768
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,839
Speaker 1: children's advocacy groups advocating for you know, protection against child

769
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 1: abuse and things like that. So the article again this

770
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 1: is an internal study. It doesn't really talk much about

771
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 1: the fact checking process at all. It's much more about

772
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:55,359
Speaker 1: the idea of filtering out content that has a right

773
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 1: wing lean So it's really weird. Like but again, this

774
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: is internal. So this is clearly kind of for Optics

775
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 1: as well. Because they hired this person, they commissioned the

776
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 1: study themselves, they're not forced to abide by it. There's

777
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 1: really nothing that anybody can do short of doing some

778
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 1: kind of antitrust situation against Facebook as an entity, Like

779
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:18,920
Speaker 1: who's to say that they can't post misinformation anytime they want.

780
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 1: Who who's holding them to these standards except for themselves?

781
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 1: So I don't know any answer. It's really I messed

782
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: up situation, you guys. I personally don't want anyone believing

783
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 1: or living their lives based off of misinformation or disinformation

784
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:39,759
Speaker 1: or something that is untrue. Um. Unfortunately, we've all been

785
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 1: doing that to some extent throughout our whole lives because

786
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 1: we we don't get to control the pipelines, and we

787
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:50,240
Speaker 1: don't know a lot of times exactly what is occurring

788
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: in the world around us. UM. And there are people

789
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 1: out there that I want it to be that way,

790
00:47:58,280 --> 00:47:59,359
Speaker 1: But I mean, I think at the end of the day,

791
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 1: and it's something that that I tell my kid to

792
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 1: do is uh and he got even my mom, but

793
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 1: she's that's a whole another story. You gotta vet your

794
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 1: own facts. I mean, you can't just rely on one

795
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 1: platform to tell you what's what you have to do

796
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 1: independent fact checking. You can't rely on these fact checkers

797
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:21,280
Speaker 1: that Facebook hires or employees or or uses or whatever

798
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 1: that arrangement might be. Um, you gotta just do your

799
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 1: own homework and and and keep your eyes open and

800
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: not let the WOL be pulled over your eyes or

801
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 1: actively pull it over your own eyes. Well said. So

802
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 1: expect more from us on this in the future, and

803
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 1: expect one more piece of strange news after word from

804
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 1: our sponsor. And we are back with Kim Jong oong

805
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 1: a k A one of the reasons it's hard for

806
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 1: me to wait uh for this episode. But what are

807
00:48:58,120 --> 00:48:59,959
Speaker 1: the reasons I was able to take out my old

808
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: the DPRK flag that I bought near the border, and

809
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 1: that's what Agents Scully is reclining against. I don't think

810
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: you can see it very well. But we brought Kim

811
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 1: Jong un with us in the news today we reported Matt, I,

812
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:17,800
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you taking the time to set that

813
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:19,800
Speaker 1: up with a little teaser at the top of the episode.

814
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:22,279
Speaker 1: That was very Uh, it was cool. Thank you. I

815
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:27,919
Speaker 1: hope it pays off. But we recently reported on the

816
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:33,320
Speaker 1: ascension of Kim Jong UN's sister, who has been taking

817
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:37,320
Speaker 1: over more day to day operations for the show called

818
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 1: Hermit Kingdom. This place for a long time was kind

819
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 1: of a black box for the world's intelligence agencies. They

820
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 1: didn't know very much about what went on there on

821
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 1: a daily basis, but they did know that the DPRK

822
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 1: did not have oil, so they didn't invade them. And uh,

823
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:58,760
Speaker 1: eventually they got nuclear capability, which is another kind of

824
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 1: that and not having a ill are too not full proof,

825
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 1: but there there are two things that really lower the

826
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 1: likelihood of another country invading you, by which I mean

827
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 1: the US. They lower the likelihood of the US invading.

828
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 1: So people have always speculated about Kim Jong un, and

829
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 1: when we did our original report about him being missing

830
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 1: in action, we said one of the theories was that

831
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 1: maybe he had faked video footage, right, because his debut

832
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 1: back from his absence was like a press kit of

833
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 1: him at a fertilizer factory footage that could have been

834
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:41,919
Speaker 1: filmed at any time, right, And this led a lot

835
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 1: of the pundits and the boffins and the eggheads and

836
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 1: the walks and the crowd to speculate like crazy, like

837
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 1: mad and say, well, this is a body double, and

838
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 1: this is just the kind of dictator that would do this. Uh,

839
00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:59,400
Speaker 1: he is sick. They don't want to show weakness to

840
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 1: the domestic demographics of North Korea. And then other people

841
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 1: said no, he's dead, and someone else said no, he's

842
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: not dead. It was a heart attack. And then someone

843
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 1: else said no, he's been in a coma, And so

844
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:13,800
Speaker 1: we started talking a little bit. You'll recall about films

845
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 1: like The Death of Stalin and and ideas of creating

846
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 1: these body doubles, like um, we did a pretty pretty

847
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:26,319
Speaker 1: interesting series on actual body doubles. They are a real thing.

848
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 1: Unfortunately a lot of them have very painful lives that

849
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 1: get cut short. But the news that came out in

850
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:39,240
Speaker 1: recent days from UH, from one specific source is claiming

851
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:43,840
Speaker 1: that yes, the crazy speculation was right. Kim Jong UN's

852
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 1: recent appearances were faked. That he has been in a

853
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 1: coma quote for months, and so I did some digging

854
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 1: on this because anybody who's read about North Korea for

855
00:51:57,239 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 1: any length of time, you know that the propaganda is

856
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:05,319
Speaker 1: so strong. A lot of South Korean outlets, uh, and

857
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:09,280
Speaker 1: a lot of Western outlets especially will just report whatever

858
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 1: they think someone had heard, and it becomes an echo

859
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:16,399
Speaker 1: chamber of people slightly rephrasing the same story that later

860
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:20,280
Speaker 1: turns out not to be completely true. And I gotta

861
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:24,359
Speaker 1: tell you, I can I understand it because when I've

862
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 1: been at the border, the propaganda the thing I wish

863
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 1: they told more people in the US. The propaganda is

864
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 1: really really strong on the North Korean side, and it's

865
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: really really strong on the South Korean side, like very

866
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:40,839
Speaker 1: very bad and blatant. And I had to you have

867
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 1: to watch this informational video at some of these tourist sites,

868
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 1: and they're all about how the d MZ is great

869
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 1: for birds birds about and that that's like a really

870
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 1: positive contribution it makes to bio diversity. Uh. Anyhow, that's

871
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:01,319
Speaker 1: the idea. The report comes from one Jong Sung Mien.

872
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 1: He is important because he was a former aide to

873
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 1: President Kim Dai jung in South Korea. He was head

874
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: of the State Affairs Monitoring Office. Uh, he probably had

875
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 1: access to intelligence operations sigin tell humans health, and he

876
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:24,880
Speaker 1: said he insisted recently, Kim Jong Loon is comatos and

877
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 1: his sister, Kim Yo Jong, is still running a lot

878
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 1: of day to day stuff, but she is not technically

879
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 1: his successor. He's saying, the insiders haven't haven't made that

880
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 1: switch yet. But the problem is a lot of people

881
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 1: are calling these sources into question. This is so, this

882
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 1: is a retired political official who was you know, you

883
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 1: would know him the way that you know a member

884
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 1: of Barack Obama's presidential staff or Donald Trump's presidential staff.

885
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 1: Right you you've probably heard the name. Maybe they went

886
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 1: to jail for something. I don't know, that's your politics.

887
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:11,319
Speaker 1: But the but this guy I'm saying is more like

888
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 1: a career, career politician, bureaucrat kind of guy. Uh, not

889
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 1: necessarily James Bond himself. And now people are not just

890
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 1: on the civilian Internet, but people in academic circles and

891
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 1: people in intelligence agency circles are trading notes on this.

892
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 1: The Twitter is hilarious. There are tons of people say, no,

893
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:41,279
Speaker 1: he's fine, it's it's propaganda. It would have been more

894
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:44,319
Speaker 1: widely reported if it was true. This is one guy

895
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 1: claiming one thing. Uh, you know, the that Kim Jong

896
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 1: goon had been seen as recently as August nine. But

897
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 1: we have to realize that we are in the post

898
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 1: deep fakes era, which means that now more than ever

899
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 1: is Fox loves to say it is possible to fake

900
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 1: the appearance of someone online, and if you're a state actor,

901
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:09,480
Speaker 1: with the resources and the motivation, is possible to do

902
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 1: it very well. Like, uh, you know, the thing that

903
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 1: should scare people about that concept. I'm not saying that's

904
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:20,400
Speaker 1: what's happening now in North Korea, but the thing that

905
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 1: should scare people about that is that it means it's

906
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 1: completely possible for your own president or prime minister or

907
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 1: whoever rules your country to have a heart attack, to

908
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 1: go into a coma, and for their online persona to

909
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 1: just continue just deep fakes of you know, the regular

910
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 1: fireside chat, just keep the Twitter going on, brand in

911
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:47,359
Speaker 1: the voice or even us or maybe that's doing some eyebrows. Well,

912
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:49,360
Speaker 1: people see, you gotta watch the video. You have to

913
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 1: watch the video to catch the Frederick Brow action. But

914
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:54,839
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you, gentlemen, because we have talked

915
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 1: about this before. Do you guys remember that conversation. I

916
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:02,279
Speaker 1: do totally do remember that conversation, And I wanted to

917
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 1: ask you what you think about something that Jeffrey Lewis

918
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:10,560
Speaker 1: said on Twitter a k A at Arms Control wonk

919
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 1: um he was he was citing the last thirty days

920
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 1: of appearances by Kim Jong n. He's citing ten from

921
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:27,560
Speaker 1: I guess the official Supreme Leaders Activities list that I'm

922
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:31,959
Speaker 1: assuming is issued by some state armor outlet there within

923
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 1: the DPRK, And there are ten official appearances and I

924
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 1: haven't actually clicked on I was kind of scared to

925
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:42,719
Speaker 1: click on it. I wanted to see where it took me.

926
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:46,400
Speaker 1: It's a Google talk. He's the one who did the

927
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 1: He's the one who also mentioned the August nineteenth date. Okay, okay, yeah,

928
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:56,720
Speaker 1: but he's I mean, he's got it all listed out there. Um.

929
00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:03,040
Speaker 1: It would make you think that the level, the level

930
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 1: of disinformation a number of appearances there would be would

931
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:09,560
Speaker 1: feel odd to me, Like that's a lot to put

932
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 1: out to feign that he's, you know, actually out there

933
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 1: using body doubles or deep fakes or whatever. And it

934
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 1: seems like there's a wonk who cried wolf situation so

935
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:26,360
Speaker 1: often when it comes to conspiracies about Kim Jong UN's death,

936
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 1: because we've seen so many Western sources just directly quote

937
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 1: in a way, quoting themselves, quoting things like Radio Free Asia,

938
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 1: which is totally and blatantly US propaganda, like it's on

939
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 1: the website. Uh, they end up quoting themselves. Uh, and

940
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 1: they seem just like really eager to hear about Kim

941
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:52,640
Speaker 1: Jong oon dying. Uh he is a terrible person who

942
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:59,240
Speaker 1: has overseeing concentration camps. But a lot of the speculation

943
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 1: I think come from again still this sort of black

944
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:07,240
Speaker 1: box situation, Like the guy travels by train. He travels

945
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 1: by rail because it's seen as the most secure way

946
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:16,280
Speaker 1: for him to travel. Uh. He could die, That's that's

947
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 1: the thing. He could die and have the state apparatus

948
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 1: would have the power to make sure that no one

949
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 1: really knows for a while. The question is how long

950
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 1: you know? What I mean? Yeah? Man? And what happens?

951
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:33,720
Speaker 1: I think that's my next question, like for you all,

952
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 1: because I know I read a lot about North Korean stuff,

953
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:40,800
Speaker 1: But what what do you think happens? When the king

954
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:45,919
Speaker 1: is dead? His sister rolls in and run stuff, and

955
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 1: it's way scarier than it's been in a long time. Yeah,

956
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 1: that's what I was wondering. Like at first, I thought,

957
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 1: you know, we talked about her in the last time

958
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 1: we had this conversation and she was like watching like

959
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:02,440
Speaker 1: Fourth of July videos or something and not knowing as

960
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:05,280
Speaker 1: nearly as much as you about this topic. Ben. I

961
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:08,600
Speaker 1: was like, Oh, is she like more open to Western

962
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 1: influence and like, but apparently that's not the case at all,

963
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:15,360
Speaker 1: Like she's staunchly anti Western influence, and like I think

964
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:18,520
Speaker 1: she's she she's known to have had people killed that

965
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:21,040
Speaker 1: were like dissidents or that were isn't that right, Like

966
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 1: there was a poisoning situation several years back with yeah,

967
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 1: they've been poisonings. Uh. One of the siblings was killed,

968
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 1: another lives a life in exile. From what we understand

969
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 1: about the outlook of the country culturally, it's pretty patriarchal,

970
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:46,640
Speaker 1: but it also cannot have a power vacuum for any

971
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:50,120
Speaker 1: amount of time. Things will go south so quickly, maybe

972
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:53,440
Speaker 1: literally south, because South Korea is just over the border

973
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 1: on this would be an absolute and utter uh show.

974
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:02,160
Speaker 1: But it also makes me think in a larger scale

975
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:07,280
Speaker 1: to your point Matt about the multiple appearances that the

976
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 1: leader of North Korea has recently had or appeared to

977
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 1: have had. Do you all think it's possible that a

978
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:21,480
Speaker 1: president or prime minister in another country and be like

979
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:23,960
Speaker 1: the US or Canada? Do you think it's possible they

980
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 1: could die or perhaps be mentally infirm or compromised, and

981
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 1: that we would have enough of an apparatus to hide

982
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 1: that fact from the public. I am only thinking of

983
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:40,600
Speaker 1: the United States, but I'm imagining with the frequency of

984
01:00:41,720 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 1: White House press conferences that occur, with the press teams

985
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 1: that exists there from from outlets across the country, I

986
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 1: think it would be near to impossible for the President

987
01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 1: United of the United States to get away with it.

988
01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:57,440
Speaker 1: Although if you decided that that's no longer going to

989
01:00:57,520 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 1: happen as a regularly scheduled thing, then perhaps because then

990
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 1: it would just be whoever has transparency into the White

991
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:10,520
Speaker 1: House itself, and if no one ever came out or

992
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 1: went in, and then no matter which president is in

993
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:16,080
Speaker 1: the White House, if they were sequestered inside and they

994
01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:19,680
Speaker 1: weren't leaving for an emergency situation, let's say, you would

995
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:22,919
Speaker 1: have no way of knowing and there are secret ways

996
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:25,120
Speaker 1: to get in and out of the White House too. Yes,

997
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:30,120
Speaker 1: I guess you know it's it's weird because you raise

998
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:33,280
Speaker 1: an excellent point. But we also have to consider if

999
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 1: something like this happened, it would not be the first

1000
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:39,520
Speaker 1: time information was hidden from the public. You know what

1001
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:43,320
Speaker 1: I mean the world, I mean specifically in the United States. Uh.

1002
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:47,400
Speaker 1: Woodrow Wilson had a terrible stroke in October of nine,

1003
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:51,760
Speaker 1: with almost none of the technology we have today. Uh.

1004
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:56,880
Speaker 1: He was partially paralyzed. He was nearly blind. He spent

1005
01:01:56,960 --> 01:02:00,600
Speaker 1: the final like seventeen months of the president's see. Oh yeah,

1006
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:03,960
Speaker 1: he was still president by the way, Uh, locked away

1007
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:07,520
Speaker 1: in the White House. He was still president until March

1008
01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:12,040
Speaker 1: of ninety one. So the public didn't know. The public

1009
01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:15,040
Speaker 1: had no idea of the severity of his condition or

1010
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:21,040
Speaker 1: his illness. And to me, given that this is a

1011
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 1: place with a rule by the representatives of the people,

1012
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 1: that seems like important information. Uh maybe there's a geopolitical

1013
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:30,240
Speaker 1: thing that keeps them from saying that. But I I

1014
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:34,760
Speaker 1: just what hits me about this. No one talking to

1015
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:37,640
Speaker 1: the media at least seems to really know what's going

1016
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:40,920
Speaker 1: on in DPRK. There are a bunch of guesses. But

1017
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 1: also before we get on a high horse about that,

1018
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:47,800
Speaker 1: how much, whether you live in the US or abroad,

1019
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:51,080
Speaker 1: how much do you know about the day to day

1020
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:55,960
Speaker 1: actions of the folks who are responsible for keeping your

1021
01:02:56,000 --> 01:03:00,520
Speaker 1: country running? It should be a sobering thought. Yeah, do

1022
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 1: you guys, has anybody out there listening? Are you in

1023
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:06,720
Speaker 1: with five eyes or f Salon or any of these

1024
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:11,720
Speaker 1: other groups? Maybe are we still five eyes? Did they

1025
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 1: the US out yet? Four eyes? Are you down with

1026
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:17,880
Speaker 1: four eyes? I only got two eyes, guys. That's just

1027
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:20,480
Speaker 1: that's the best I can do. But there are I mean,

1028
01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:24,040
Speaker 1: there are intelligence agencies and world governments that have those

1029
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:27,200
Speaker 1: satellites over the DPRK, and you know they do just

1030
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:33,400
Speaker 1: like they do over numerous other locations, probably everywhere. That's

1031
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:36,800
Speaker 1: not being conspiratorial either, It's just I think it's just

1032
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:39,680
Speaker 1: easier to get good coverage from a satellite system, you

1033
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:41,360
Speaker 1: know what I mean, You get more bang for your

1034
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:46,120
Speaker 1: orbital buck. Yeah, until you get the bug sized. You know,

1035
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:49,840
Speaker 1: spyke cams in there, which will be everywhere. And as

1036
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:52,280
Speaker 1: we always need to mention what we're talking about, surveillance

1037
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:55,840
Speaker 1: states and having spike ms everywhere, everybody, hold up your phone.

1038
01:03:56,520 --> 01:04:00,760
Speaker 1: Hey get Oh no, my tape came off. I need

1039
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 1: to get some more tape on mine as well. I

1040
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 1: was just thinking about that, if you're watching this, that

1041
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:08,720
Speaker 1: this part of the episode is brought to you by

1042
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:13,440
Speaker 1: duct tape or electrical tape, you know, some kind of

1043
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:15,960
Speaker 1: tape to put over your phone screen. I think there

1044
01:04:15,960 --> 01:04:19,160
Speaker 1: are some phone cases that also have a little physical slide.

1045
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:22,880
Speaker 1: Have you guys seen that? Yeah? Yeah, phone tape and

1046
01:04:23,080 --> 01:04:26,760
Speaker 1: rare Earth minerals and duck duct go and duck duckt

1047
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:30,160
Speaker 1: go And that's our show. Thank you so much for

1048
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:33,560
Speaker 1: tuning in, folks. We hope that you enjoyed this. We

1049
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 1: went a little long, but maybe these will just be

1050
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:39,200
Speaker 1: longer segments because the mission of this show says that

1051
01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:42,080
Speaker 1: we should chase the story and we shouldn't cut things

1052
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:45,000
Speaker 1: short for some arbitrary timeline. It's a matter of fact,

1053
01:04:45,040 --> 01:04:48,520
Speaker 1: if you listen to our earlier episodes last week, you're

1054
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:52,480
Speaker 1: all too well aware that our species actually has very

1055
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:55,880
Speaker 1: little idea how time works to begin with. So it's

1056
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:58,760
Speaker 1: a tough question. But these are great stories, and they

1057
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 1: feel like they're gonna lead us two more episodes. The

1058
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:10,760
Speaker 1: relationship between cognition and Communications Technology AK video games specifically, uh,

1059
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:16,800
Speaker 1: the power and opaqueness of Facebook, and then of course

1060
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:20,360
Speaker 1: North Korea. I'm just gonna get that at a T

1061
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:23,000
Speaker 1: shirt at some point, and then of course North Korea.

1062
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:26,280
Speaker 1: That's great. If you have anything to say about any

1063
01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:28,880
Speaker 1: of the things we've discussed today, you can find us

1064
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:32,960
Speaker 1: on social media like Hey, Facebook, where we're Conspiracy Stuff,

1065
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:36,560
Speaker 1: or you can check out our community page there here's

1066
01:05:36,560 --> 01:05:39,840
Speaker 1: where it gets crazy. Join us hang out if you're

1067
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:43,000
Speaker 1: down to be on Facebook for any time whatsoever. And

1068
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Speaker 1: we're also on Twitter at Conspiracy Stuff and we're on

1069
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:49,920
Speaker 1: Instagram Conspiracy Stuff Show. You can also give us a

1070
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 1: call hop on the horn if you hate social media

1071
01:05:53,720 --> 01:05:56,520
Speaker 1: but you like to shout into the void. That's not

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01:05:56,640 --> 01:06:00,280
Speaker 1: really avoid We'll be listening. We have our ears field.

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01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:03,240
Speaker 1: You can call us directly. We are one eight three

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01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:07,040
Speaker 1: three say it along your home st d w y

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01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:09,760
Speaker 1: t K. Yeah. Less of a void, more of an

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01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:13,520
Speaker 1: abyssal plane kind of situation, but we definitely reach out

1077
01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:16,520
Speaker 1: into that thing pretty regularly. And now we've got a

1078
01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:21,240
Speaker 1: weekly segment where we mind your calls for use on

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01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 1: the air, So let us know if you have a

1080
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:25,080
Speaker 1: problem with us using your voice, or want us to

1081
01:06:25,240 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 1: leave out your name or what have you when you

1082
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:29,680
Speaker 1: call in um and you might just hear yourself on

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01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:32,640
Speaker 1: one of our listener mail episodes. And if none of

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01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:36,320
Speaker 1: that quite bags your badgers, but you have an important

1085
01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:39,800
Speaker 1: tale to tell and stuff on the Tennessee accents, you

1086
01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:42,320
Speaker 1: can always let us know. Regardless of what time it is,

1087
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:45,320
Speaker 1: regardless of what day, what year it is. All you

1088
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:49,480
Speaker 1: have to do is hop to your Internet email arrangement

1089
01:06:49,520 --> 01:06:53,280
Speaker 1: of choice and drop us a line. We are conspiracy

1090
01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:56,760
Speaker 1: at I heart radio dot com. But don't go remember

1091
01:06:57,240 --> 01:07:00,960
Speaker 1: you and all your friends subscribe. It's either here or

1092
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 1: it's out there somewhere. YouTube dot com slash conspiracy stuff.

1093
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:11,360
Speaker 1: Stay with me. YouTube dot com slash conspiracy stuff. We

1094
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:13,680
Speaker 1: we are the only thing that matters. I'm hypnotizing you

1095
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:39,800
Speaker 1: right now. Context YouTube dot com slash conspiracy stuff. Stuff

1096
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:41,720
Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. Is a production of

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01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:44,760
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,

1098
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:47,720
Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

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01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:49,120
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.