1 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to Okay f Daily with 2 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody, recording from the home Bunker. Folks, 3 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: I cannot believe that I am saying this nearly two 4 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: weeks following the Tennessee shooting. But there's been another fucking shooting, 5 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: and this time in Kentucky. This time it was at 6 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: a bank. A twenty three year old white guy employee 7 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: of the bank went in with a rifle and shot 8 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: it up, killing four people injuring nine others. Police were 9 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: called onto the scene. They got there within three minutes 10 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: and killed the suspect, but not before he could do 11 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: so much fucking damage. And if you've been watching the 12 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 1: reports come in, one of those that were critically wounded 13 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: was an officer who this I believe was like their 14 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: tenth or so day on the job. They just graduated 15 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: from police academy. It's just, you know, folks, it is. 16 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,680 Speaker 1: We live in the wild, wild West, we really do, 17 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: and it is really difficult to come on here. Every 18 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: feels like every other week there is another mass shooting. 19 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: And you know, funny enough, but not funny. We are 20 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: in I believe that this is the one hundredth day 21 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 1: of the year and we have had over one hundred 22 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: and fifty shootings like that. It just doesn't even make 23 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: any fucking sense, you know. And what is what is 24 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: worse about this one is that it is in a 25 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: red state that has all of these fucking you know, 26 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: wild wild West laws for ceiling carry and anybody and 27 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: everybody can get a gun with a slurpee and you know, 28 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: and they're gonna blame it on oh, this person was 29 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: mentally disturbed. Do we think other nations don't have people 30 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 1: that are mentally disturbed? They just don't have access to 31 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: fucking guns in the way that we do. Do we 32 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: think that anyone else doesn't suffer from some type of 33 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: you know, mental trauma people do all around the world. 34 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: That you just that in America you can get a 35 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: gun easier. Well, of course, now then you can get 36 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: like anything, including an abortion which on Friday, six PM, 37 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 1: we had two conflicting rulings come down on myth of pristone, 38 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 1: the abortion pill, which if the judge in Texas, the 39 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: Trump backed judge in Texas, if that ruling holds, then 40 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: myth of pristone, which was approved twenty years ago by 41 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,799 Speaker 1: the FDA, is another way for the GOP to say, 42 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: fuck precedent, we don't care, right, so they can pull 43 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: anything down, bring anything to court. Law and order is 44 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: just it was their terminology for the Republican Party and 45 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: they clearly don't care about it anymore. And so I 46 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: don't know where we find ourselves, dear friends, but I 47 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: don't feel like we are in a good place, and 48 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: it feels like things are getting aggressively worse on a 49 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: passing daily basis. So I'm trying to look for something hopeful, 50 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: Hopefully something good will happen this week. I hope you 51 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: all had a RESTful weekend, if you celebrated the holiday 52 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: or you just you know, took some time to do 53 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: something that was joyful and very much needed. And yeah, 54 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: because we need to ground ourselves in something, because this 55 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: ship is just it's increasingly wild every single day. Coming 56 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: up next, my conversation with my friend and co host 57 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: of Democracy ishwjahat Ali. We get into a really good 58 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: conversation about religion and politics, and you know, talking about 59 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: the weaponization of quote unquote Christian white Evangelical Christianity, and 60 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: we talk about Ramadan, which was jahat is in the 61 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 1: midst of celebrating and you know the fact that you 62 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: have this Islam right has one point seven billion followers, 63 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: and you would think in this country, you know, that 64 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: says that we are you know, open for all people. 65 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 1: There's not a mention, right, not in the same way 66 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: that you hear about Passover, not in the same way 67 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: that you obviously hear about Easter. No acknowledgment whatsoever. And 68 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: I talk about that with Wasjahat and what it feels 69 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 1: like to be in the religion that is so very large, right, 70 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: with so many followers and practitioners, and not have that acknowledgement. 71 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: It's pretty much you know, invisible in the United States, 72 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: and what that feels like. So that is coming up next, folks. 73 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: I am so excited to welcome back to Woke Appa 74 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: Daily my friend and co host of Democracy Ish Wajahat Ali, 75 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 1: who is also the author of the book Go Back 76 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: to Where You Came From and other helpful recommendations on 77 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: how to become American one. It is Ramadan, So happy 78 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: Ramadan to you. I realize that while Ramadan is in 79 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: my calendar, right, it's I have all my holidays that 80 00:05:55,880 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 1: come up, and you know, I reach out and you know, 81 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: share well wishes to my friends of different religious affiliations. 82 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: You get no love in this country. Huh andy, Nobody 83 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: mention it anytime. No, it is not, it is not. 84 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: There is no edmurbach On like on any network. No 85 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 1: nobody maybe other than Amen or medi will mention anything. 86 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: Um So, I just like, what is that experience like 87 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: to be a part of a religion that is like 88 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: a billion plus strong, right, Like, it's not a small religion. Uh, 89 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: and yet there is no recognition in this in this country. 90 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: It Yeah, we've got numbers, we've got challenges and problems, 91 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: but we've also got numbers. So if other religions are 92 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: struggling right now, like I have Jewish friends, they're like, 93 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 1: you know what we enview about Muslims. I'm like, what, 94 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: there's a lot of you, there's only except million of us. 95 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: It's one of the situations that even though it was 96 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 1: born and raised in this country, right and you know 97 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: this as a black queer woman, we're not trying to 98 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: replace anybody. And I mentioned this because the white supremacist 99 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: and I always want to mention to people it's a 100 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: white supremacist conspiracy theory that came from the swamps of 101 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: the KKK Nazis that now over a third of Americans 102 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 1: believe because one political party in particular, and one network 103 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: in particular, Fox has mainstreamed it that we are trying 104 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: to actively replace and weaken Western white Christian civilization. Right. 105 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,559 Speaker 1: And I always joke with folks that if you only knew, 106 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: we didn't want to replace you. We just wanted to 107 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: invite to the party. We just wanted some acknowledgment, We 108 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: wanted a speaking rule. And I say all this because 109 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: we wanted to be a character with a background. Yeah, 110 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: character like I don't know, an arc, a name, an 111 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: arc like something, just a few lines, you know. And 112 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: I say that because when you grow up in this country, 113 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: you know, you learn the Christian songs, you you learned 114 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: of about the Jewish traditions, and Jews had to mainstream themselves, right, 115 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: even with Judeo Christian. That's a recent innovation that's only 116 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: like one hundred years old. Before then, it was very 117 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: clearly Christian. You would never add the word Judeo, right, 118 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: Like probably even fifty years ago you would you would 119 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: have done that. So that's new. The fact that America says, 120 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: oh Jews welcome, pass over, you know, wonderful Hanuka. Nothing 121 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,239 Speaker 1: for Muslims, even though, like you said, one point seven 122 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: billion people over fourteen hundred years of Islamic civilization. So 123 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: growing up, you know, we were just like, we're doing 124 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:37,959 Speaker 1: eds for something called rama, and your teachers like, what's that? 125 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 1: Are you making something up? Like I swear to God 126 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: we're not. I just need to take a day off. 127 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: Which day, well, you know, we have to look at 128 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: the moon. So some people are gonna do Tuesday and 129 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 1: some people are gonna do Wednesday. Like what the hell 130 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: are you talking about it? Like I swear a teacher, 131 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: I'm not not a con. And then a few years ago, 132 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: coinciding with our Muslim brothers elevation of the White House, 133 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: Barack Obama, you saw a slow you know, our brother 134 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:05,199 Speaker 1: who prays towards Mecca and says Jesus Christ as his 135 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: Lord and Savior and celebrates Easter and had a reverend 136 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: in each sport openly. But I digress. You saw a 137 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 1: small trend Danio where you saw the stamp and people 138 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: are like, well, what is this? Who cares about the stamp? 139 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: Like the fact that there's an eat stamp, the fact 140 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: that Lego in Sesame Street over the past couple of 141 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:28,079 Speaker 1: years on Twitter or Instagram, say Ramadan Mobark or Eve Mobark. 142 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: The fact that Barack Obama and Joe Biden and others 143 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: in the State Department and the White House iftar. Excuse me, 144 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 1: the White House do an if thar right like a 145 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: Ramdan iftar, and they do a State Department like eat celebration, which, 146 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: by the way, I want to remind people, the Trumps 147 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: when they came in, they ended that. Huh, I wonder why. 148 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: So that's one of those situations where you asked a 149 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: simple question. But even if you look at what I 150 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: just said with Trump, why did he continue the other 151 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: celebrations and went out of his way to say, now 152 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: we're not going to do the ead celebration because Muslim 153 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: even though the first I would say, even though Muslims 154 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:13,079 Speaker 1: have been here for four hundred years, a third of 155 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:15,439 Speaker 1: the slave trade that was brought here forcibly against its 156 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: will was Muslim. Our blood, our sweat, our tears, our 157 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 1: labor have fertilized this country. Muhammad Ali, one of the 158 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: most well known athletes of all time who's given the 159 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: honor of lighting the Olympic torch for the ninety six Olympics. 160 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: Muslim even though we're part and parcel of America, we're 161 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: still seen as foreign, as the other and as them. 162 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 1: And it's one of those interesting situations is how do 163 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: you love a country that doesn't love you back? And 164 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: how does it feel to be American when your country 165 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: says you're both us and them? And that is how 166 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: it is to be a Muslim and to celebrate Ramadan 167 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: growing up in this country. But concisely to answer your 168 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:54,679 Speaker 1: question the last few years, if you build it, they 169 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: will come. If you teach people, they'll understand. People ain't dumb. 170 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: Slowly but surely people are like, Oh Ramadan, Muslims are fascinating, 171 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 1: not even water, not even water like. They become more aware, 172 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: they become more empathetic. If you teach people, becomes part 173 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 1: and parcel of the fabric. Oh halala meat. Oh Muslims 174 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: eat really well. Eat Parties are the bomb. So just 175 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 1: one of those situations that now at the age of 176 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: forty two, I feel like my kids will finally get 177 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:26,079 Speaker 1: an America where Ramadan and ed and halal is an 178 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,719 Speaker 1: integral part of the American experience and not seen as 179 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: something as villainous evil foreign and other you know, it's 180 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:37,959 Speaker 1: it's and I love you for giving that his kind 181 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:42,439 Speaker 1: of historic breakdown of your experience, because what I experienced 182 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: over Passover with one of my best friends who is Jewish, 183 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:49,319 Speaker 1: and what she has found. You know, she was raised 184 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: in a kind of hybrid religion household, but as she 185 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 1: is experiencing and witnessing the rise of anti Semitism in 186 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 1: this country, she is choosing actively choosing to really really 187 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: ground herself in in Judaism in a way that she 188 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:15,559 Speaker 1: hadn't you know, ten years ago. And what I'm finding 189 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 1: is that there are lots of people, whether they are 190 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: Jewish or Muslim, Christian, even of like in spiritual practices, 191 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: doubling down and grounding in faith as the world around 192 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: us becomes more tumultuous. And so I wanted to get 193 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,559 Speaker 1: your thoughts because we love to believe that we are 194 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,559 Speaker 1: a country that has separation of church and state, which 195 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 1: I always find so interesting when even on our money 196 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 1: it says in God we trust that at the end 197 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: of each president, regardless of parties, you know, speech, that 198 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,439 Speaker 1: they will God bless the troops and God bless this country. 199 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:56,719 Speaker 1: Like so it's it's interesting, like we don't pray at 200 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: school as of right now, I'm certain that a second 201 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 1: term President Trump or a president to Santis would have 202 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 1: that change. But what do you what do you think 203 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: about this grounding, this kind of doubling down of faith 204 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:19,199 Speaker 1: that seems to be taking hold, you know, human beings 205 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 1: since the beginning, since the chromagnet times, ever since we've 206 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: developed the capacity for you know, language and communication and 207 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: higher thinking and art. The latest, the artwork, the earliest 208 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:36,079 Speaker 1: artwork of our human ancestors, right depicts some belief, uh, 209 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: some idea that we're not alone, that there is a 210 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: metaphysical other. Right. I think it's fundamental to most humans 211 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 1: to not necessarily subscribe to an organized religion, but to 212 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: be spiritual. I remember David Bowie even said, like you know, 213 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: even though he wasn't religious, but like you know, even 214 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: he finds himself like praying in times of immense crisis. Right. So, 215 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: I think when it comes to humanity, there is it's 216 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: just something they're always ingrained within our narrative and our 217 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 1: storytelling that wants us to believe that there is something, 218 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: some benelevant force, some being, some and some ether that 219 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: that is made of love and will will protect us 220 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: and comfort us. Okay, organized religion is getting a bad 221 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: rap because organized religion has been used and abused by 222 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: many of its practitioners as a sword against the weak 223 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: and as a shield to protect their power, as a 224 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: bulwark against modernity and progress. Which is why we shouldn't 225 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: be surprised n that with gen Z and millennials, there's 226 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: so many nuns, not the nuns who wear the habit, 227 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: but n o ns. That's an actual word. So these 228 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: are people who unaffiliated. They're like, I'm done with Christianity, 229 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: I'm done with Islam, I'm done with can lose any 230 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: organized religion? I'm done. And coming from a religious community, 231 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: you know, you see all these uncles and aunties freak out. 232 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: We're losing them. We're losing them. Why are we losing them? 233 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: It's like what Scott Walker did recently, right, we need 234 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: to do religion in doctrine. We basically was saying, we 235 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: need to do indoctrination skills. How are these Tennessee youth 236 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: you know, doing these protests and how come they're they're 237 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: so upset? Ah, We've failed them. Maybe because they realize 238 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 1: what you're selling them is toxic and it's killing them 239 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: and they're rebelling against you. Maybe women want equal rights 240 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: and maybe quote unquote minorities want to be treated respectfully. 241 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: And they've seen organized religion used as a weapon, and 242 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: they've seen the prophets turned into political mascots like Jesus 243 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: in this country. So that explains the rise of the 244 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: n O N s. Now, this what's interesting, just because 245 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: gen Z and Millennials in particular have rapidly Daniel, like 246 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: the last fifteen years, like shift. If you look at 247 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: the numbers, it's it's fascinating. Bobby Jones of pr R 248 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: I does this. He's like the shift of people moving 249 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: away from religion and one generation in America, this very 250 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: religious country, that's separation of church and state. But you 251 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: and I, you know, you know you and I know 252 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: that's bs because the white Evangelical Christians have always been 253 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: their own party, if you will, and unfortunately that has 254 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 1: been a party of violence and a party of white 255 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: supremacy and not at all. But I'm just keeping it real. 256 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: But he says, the shift is stunning, But those nuns 257 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: are still spiritual, Daniel, that's what's interesting. You're still searching. 258 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: So it's like people say, oh, they're all leaving. I'm like, 259 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: they're not. They're leaving you, right, But they're still searching 260 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: for meaning, for purpose, for community. And I think what 261 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: the pandemic has done, Daniel, and with the rise of 262 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 1: incomm inequality and the rise of isolation and social media, 263 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: people desperately want belonging, They want community. They see that 264 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: materialism and the likes in the Instagram posts and the 265 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: tiktoks don't give them that sense of fulfillment, which is 266 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: why I think you're seeing some of these folks double down. 267 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: The other reason you're seeing people double down is in 268 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: the face of modernity and in the face of crisis 269 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: and the face of challenges, instead of expanding themselves, they're 270 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: restricting themselves. Instead of creating a store where the tent 271 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 1: is bigger and has shade for everyone, they're like, I'm 272 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 1: going to make sure my tent protects me and my tribe. 273 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: And this is where you see religious chauvinism and white 274 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: supremacy in Jesus being used as a mascot for you know, 275 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:16,440 Speaker 1: for white supremacy and white Evangical Christianity, where it's like 276 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:20,360 Speaker 1: I will reject minority, I will double down, I will 277 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: bury my head in the sand, and I will I 278 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: will use religion as a sword against my perceived enemies, 279 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 1: and I will use it as a shield to protect 280 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,640 Speaker 1: my power and privilege which is under threat by forces 281 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:36,439 Speaker 1: I cannot comprehend. It's too confusing. And so this is, 282 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: you know, my explanation of the doubling down in which 283 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: in one way which is negative, which I hope is clear, 284 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 1: and the type of return to it's just laugh all 285 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: the time, fige it. I always feel bad, like like 286 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: I never get on the grift because I'm not a 287 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: good businessman, like like the Gwyddeth Paltrows and the goops 288 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 1: of the world are now like frigging charging ten dollars 289 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: for Tumeric. I'm like tumeric, the stuff that my grandmother 290 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:05,160 Speaker 1: has that we eat every day. That shit is being 291 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: sold at like whole food for twenty bucks. Remember bone broth, 292 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: They used to like give away those bones for free, 293 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: and like Jamaicans and Muslims are like yay, And now 294 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 1: freaking white women have discovered bone broth, and now this 295 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 1: crap sells like thirty bucks. You're like mother effing Gwyneth 296 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 1: Paltrow and like the whole wellness industry is so amusing 297 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:23,719 Speaker 1: to me because all the stuff that we've been doing 298 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: Daniel for a thousands of years, meditation, gratitude, intermitted fasting, 299 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: which is I'm doing right now like rich White, So like, 300 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: you know what we just discovered intermitted fasting and meditation 301 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 1: and tumeric give us a thousand dollars. So that is 302 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,959 Speaker 1: like a succinct way of saying the return of people 303 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 1: in modernity who rejected organized religion but are now going 304 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:52,399 Speaker 1: to these old school rituals to find peace. Ain't that something? One? 305 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: It's hilarious and you recognize it so much. I mean, 306 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,400 Speaker 1: I will say, my mother owns a yoga studio on 307 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 1: Long Island, and you know, a lot of what has 308 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: grounded her has been like from her childhood, right and 309 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: obviously like you know, uh, Buddhism and Hinduism, and then 310 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: like the recognition that you know her mother was half 311 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: Indian because my great grandmother was from Calcutta, right like, 312 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,120 Speaker 1: and so there is just like this connection and interwovenness. 313 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 1: But there's always when it comes to whiteness, there is 314 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:31,640 Speaker 1: always this like Columbus saying of shit um and not 315 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: necessarily an integration. It's like we have found this, and 316 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 1: so we're offering your stuff back to you at higher 317 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: value tumeric for example, oxtail. Okay, well, let me just 318 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:50,959 Speaker 1: put it out there, oxtail. I think that what is 319 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: really what is really fascinating, and this has been my 320 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 1: kind of journey, is that I have always been intrigued 321 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 1: by various religions. And you know, I went to a 322 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: Catholic university and had to take religion of the world, 323 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 1: as you know, as in order to graduate, and it 324 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: was one of the most eye opening. And I think 325 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 1: that because I was raised as a Protestant, but not 326 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: really because I stopped going to church when I was 327 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: ten and then don't had never subscribed to any organized 328 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: religion because I thought that it was oppressive by nature. 329 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 1: HAVE always been a person that is very interested in faith. 330 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: And you and I joke about this weekly on democracy 331 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: issue when I say I have a mustard state of faith. 332 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 1: I have become increasingly more spiritual and more practice and 333 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:48,920 Speaker 1: more linked to tradition over the past several years. And 334 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: I couldn't decide whether that was coming out of the 335 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: fact that, you know, I'm getting older, or like the 336 00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: fact that the world feels like it's going to ship, 337 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 1: and I need to around in something a combination of 338 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: all of those things. But I think by virtue of 339 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: not subscribing to one religion or the other, I have 340 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: kept this this sense of wonder and interest, and I 341 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: I have what I realize while celebrating Passover with one 342 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: of my best friends and our husband, is that that's 343 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 1: what Republicans don't want people to have, which is this 344 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:34,239 Speaker 1: sense of wonder, this mutual respect and community building and 345 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: connectedness that allows me to want to be interesting in 346 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:43,159 Speaker 1: what your experience during Ramadan is like and what the 347 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 1: principles of Islam teach about that, right while still holding 348 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: the fact that it's not my religion, but I'm interested 349 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 1: to know how one of my friends is grounded in 350 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: practice on a regular day. Like does that make sense that? 351 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: Like it does make it? Because Yeah, precisely what it 352 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: became an aha moment for me is exactly what they're 353 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: trying to denounce in a race. I'm not surprised at all, 354 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 1: because you know, God is love and God is truth, 355 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 1: and all paths lead to God and not everyone is 356 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 1: meant to be Muslim or on the path that's according 357 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: to Muslims, right, But God and nonetheless is the creator. 358 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: And so what's the role then of the code quote 359 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,199 Speaker 1: believer or the person who ascribes to the religious tradition. 360 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 1: What it should be is that you are on your 361 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 1: way and I'm on my way, but you walk this 362 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: world and service to God and to others. So when 363 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: you see how religion, specifically say Islam and in some 364 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: parts spread, never through the paw taking, never through the sword. Really, 365 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: how I'm talking about how it really entered heart standing 366 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: all like, how it really inspired people. It was through 367 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 1: men and women who did their rituals, followed their path, 368 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: were surrounded by non Muslims, and they treated them with kindness, compassion, 369 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: and love. They gave him shelter when they had no shelter. 370 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: They gave him food when they were hungry, They game 371 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: water when they were thirsty, and they expected nothing in return, 372 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,239 Speaker 1: and they fasted, They gave charity, they prayed, they had 373 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: a discipline. And then folks saw that and said, that 374 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: person seems content, that person seems happy. I want to 375 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: taste what that person's drinking. And that's how it entered 376 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: into people's heart. That's how it stuck. And when you 377 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: see people like who, then you know convert to religion 378 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: or become more religious as they get older, and who 379 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 1: are stable people? And you're asking me, like, what did it? 380 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,199 Speaker 1: And they said, someone was kind to me. You know, 381 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: someone was generous to me. Someone had a type of 382 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,679 Speaker 1: discipline that I really envied, someone had some balance in 383 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 1: their life. It was very attractive to me. It was 384 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 1: very beautiful. The reason why so many people turn away 385 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,400 Speaker 1: from religion is because what they're offering, and I say 386 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 1: for all organized religions right oftentimes. I was having a 387 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: conversation with the reverend who's also a PhD doctor, and 388 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: you know, he's Christian, and he said, you see, you're 389 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 1: talking about his own church. Corruption, the misogyny, the abuse 390 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: of power, the taking of the wealth. And I'm like, oh, 391 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: sounds like most mosques, sounds like most synagogues. You know, 392 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: people using an abusing God, the language of God, the 393 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:20,920 Speaker 1: prophets to maintain power for themselves and anyone and everything 394 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: that is hostile to them or threatens that power can 395 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: be erased. And this is how religion is so powerful, 396 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 1: is that you don't with religion and the abuse of religion. 397 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: You could say I have the celestial stamp of approval 398 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: to put my boot on your neck? Who are you 399 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:38,679 Speaker 1: to go against God? And by the way, I just 400 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 1: happen to be a vice region of God just because 401 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,719 Speaker 1: I say it right. And so when this happens, Daniel, 402 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 1: you see the disconnect as you were mentioned that here 403 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: you are, that you you know, grew up on a way, 404 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 1: but you're not religious. You don't scrap it organized religion. 405 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 1: But you find yourself at this day of your life 406 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: finding benefit and solace and comfort from religious communities and practices. 407 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 1: And you're trying to reconcile how these things work. And 408 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: I think that's the reconciliation is because this has been 409 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: around for thousands of years. That wisdom, whether you believe 410 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: in God or not, has been passed on from thousand 411 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 1: years Buddhist Monks, Hindus, Jews. They must be onto something, Daniel. 412 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: People are saying generation after generation like meditation, breathing, giving 413 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: charity helps you. But then once that has been packaged 414 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: by Republicans as a vehicle of domination and white supremacy 415 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:31,400 Speaker 1: and hate, you see what happens when fear and loathing 416 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: replace love and service. And you see it in the 417 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: United States of America where they're literally denying children from 418 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 1: low income families food and lunch. And you sit there 419 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: and go, how do you reconcile that with the teachings 420 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: and life of Jesus, who gave us life for the 421 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 1: most poor and downtrodden. And you don't, because for them, 422 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,679 Speaker 1: Jesus has been hijacked into a white supremacist mascot with 423 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,679 Speaker 1: an air of fifteen, who's not even writing, who's not 424 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: even driving the pickup truck he's writing shotgun. Let me 425 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: tell you something. You are. You are a prophet in 426 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 1: your own right. The way that you're always able to 427 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 1: intertwine so many different issues and fabrics of our being 428 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: to bring clarity to the situations that we are living 429 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 1: with and these complex crises. It's just so beautiful, my friend. 430 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: I talk too much, but I made today. You did, 431 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: and you do and I love it and it's why 432 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: I love doing a show with you each week. So, folks, 433 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,239 Speaker 1: if you have not, if you have not what you 434 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 1: should have picked up watch this book, go back to 435 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 1: where you came from, and other helpful recommendations on how 436 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: to become American, get it everywhere that you get your books, 437 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 1: and make sure that each Thursday you were checking out 438 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 1: us our dynamic duo on democracy the Ish, which goes 439 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: up every Thursday. My friend, I thank you so much 440 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: for your time, your brilliance and insight. Thank you so much. 441 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 1: I'll be talking to you in a few days. In 442 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: a few days, yea. That is it for me today. 443 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 1: Dear friends on woke a f as always Power to 444 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 1: the people and to all the people. Power, get woke 445 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 1: and stay woke as fuck.