WEBVTT - Episode 18: Will Your Job Disappear by 2024?

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<v Speaker 1>Let's say I'm squeamish. I don't like to see blood.

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<v Speaker 1>I get a bit uneasy around sick people makes me sad.

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<v Speaker 1>So what else could I do when I get old?

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<v Speaker 1>This episode is brought to you by nat X, the

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<v Speaker 1>future of trading is here now at n A d

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<v Speaker 1>e X, dot com, futures, options and spots. Trading involves

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<v Speaker 1>risk and may not be appropriate for all investors. Hi,

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<v Speaker 1>and welcome back to Bloomberg Benchmark, a podcast about the

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<v Speaker 1>global economy. It is Wednesday, December. I'm Tori Stiwell and

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<v Speaker 1>economics reporter with Bloomberg News, and I am in New

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<v Speaker 1>York work today with Dan Moss. And we're also joined

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<v Speaker 1>by Aki Edo, our editor for Benchmark in San Francisco. Guys, Hiaki,

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<v Speaker 1>are you feeling all lonesome out there? I am, I am,

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<v Speaker 1>I wish. Yeah. We're having a big party here in

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<v Speaker 1>New York with the producers Crazy. Today we're going to

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<v Speaker 1>be looking forward, not just next year, but to the

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<v Speaker 1>coming decade. We're going to offer everyone a sneak preview

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<v Speaker 1>far out into the future. What does the American labor

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<v Speaker 1>market look like a decade from now? And we have

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<v Speaker 1>a great guide with us, which is this giant set

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<v Speaker 1>of projections that the US Labor Department published this month.

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<v Speaker 1>It's got info on the fate of hundreds of different

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<v Speaker 1>kinds of jobs by the year, and it's a pretty

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<v Speaker 1>fascinating look into the future. Gosh, I just love this report.

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<v Speaker 1>I've used it for my own reporting, and I like

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<v Speaker 1>it for myself to you know, thinking about where I

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<v Speaker 1>want my own career to go. Uh Tori, what will

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<v Speaker 1>your life look like? And ideally I will be on

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<v Speaker 1>a farm making homemade cheese. And that's the dream just

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<v Speaker 1>in overalls, Yeah, retirement at age six. Now I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>to be a farmer. I'm gonnas how farmers are going

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<v Speaker 1>to do real quick? Farmers are going to lose jobs. Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>we're moving away from an agricultural economy. You'll be one

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<v Speaker 1>of the very few. You'll be really special, excellent, It'll

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<v Speaker 1>be like an artisanal farm. To help us make sense

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<v Speaker 1>of this brave new world, and we have Heidi Sherholtz

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<v Speaker 1>on the line. She is the chief economist at the

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<v Speaker 1>Labor Department. Hello Heidi, Hi, thank you for having me. Heidi.

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<v Speaker 1>This is a huge report that you guys have put out.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's start with very broad, five thousand foot view

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<v Speaker 1>of the labor market. What are the main changes that

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<v Speaker 1>we are going to see in the demographic makeup of

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<v Speaker 1>our workforce over the next nine tennis years. Yeah. So

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<v Speaker 1>this is the report that the Bureau of Labor Statistics

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<v Speaker 1>puts out every two years where they do these massive

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<v Speaker 1>projections of what employment will be like for the next

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<v Speaker 1>ten years. They look at not just occupations and industries

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<v Speaker 1>that will be growing, but also demographic changes. And one

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<v Speaker 1>of the sort of the theme we see from these

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<v Speaker 1>numbers is not a surprise. The labor force is going

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<v Speaker 1>to continue to get older. We're seeing more of the

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<v Speaker 1>just broad aging of the population that will sort of

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<v Speaker 1>start tapering off at the end of this window, at

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<v Speaker 1>the end of this tenure window they're looking at, but

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<v Speaker 1>we are seeing the labor force continuing to get older.

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<v Speaker 1>And then the other thing that we're seeing is increasing

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<v Speaker 1>diversity of the labor force. We see bigger share of

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<v Speaker 1>the labor force are racial un ethnic minorities, and so

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<v Speaker 1>those two key things are sort of important dynamics going forward.

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<v Speaker 1>And one one thing I should say though, is none

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<v Speaker 1>of that is changing incredibly rapidly. Deetographic trends tend to

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<v Speaker 1>move pretty slowly, but that's the direction they're going in

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<v Speaker 1>right now. I want to I want to zoom in

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<v Speaker 1>on the on the kind of aging piece of this

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<v Speaker 1>because I thought it was really interesting in the report,

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<v Speaker 1>you guys say that the labor force participation rate, which

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<v Speaker 1>is the share of the working age population that is

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<v Speaker 1>either employed or at least looking for a job, that

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<v Speaker 1>rate for the sixty five years old and older age

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<v Speaker 1>group is going to rise to one point seven percent

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<v Speaker 1>from eighteen point six percent. And I think that's just

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<v Speaker 1>it's astounding. It's a it's a really big increase in

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<v Speaker 1>I think really illustrates what you just said very well. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a fascinating dynamic. So we see workers workers who

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<v Speaker 1>are older or people who are older are more likely

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<v Speaker 1>to be in the labor force than they used to be,

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<v Speaker 1>and that trend is continuing. So some of that so

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<v Speaker 1>we're never going to retire at all. I do I

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<v Speaker 1>do plan on retiring myself, and I believe you all

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<v Speaker 1>will also be able to have a period of retirement.

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<v Speaker 1>But people are um starting to delay that more than

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<v Speaker 1>they used to. So we're starting to see workers over

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<v Speaker 1>age sixty five and larger numbers continue being in the

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<v Speaker 1>labor force. But you will note those numbers you cited

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<v Speaker 1>are still quite low. It's not like they're compared to

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<v Speaker 1>younger workers. Yes, and one of the dynamics we're seeing

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<v Speaker 1>is the um the overall labor force participation rate is

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<v Speaker 1>actually dropping. Interestingly enough, because when you even though you

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<v Speaker 1>have this increase in labor force participation of older workers,

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<v Speaker 1>their overall numbers are lower. It's growing, but from sort

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<v Speaker 1>of a very low base. And so as we have

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<v Speaker 1>the aging of the workforce, you're aging people into this

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<v Speaker 1>category that has a lower labor force participation rate. Let's

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<v Speaker 1>talk about this older population, and you know, as our

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<v Speaker 1>population ages, that really means that some jobs are going

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<v Speaker 1>to be in huge amen and other jobs aren't going

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<v Speaker 1>to be in demand at all. So, Dan, do you

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<v Speaker 1>want to walk us through some of those numbers. We'll

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<v Speaker 1>be seeing big increases in healthcare across the board. Someone

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<v Speaker 1>has to take care of this aging population. The job

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<v Speaker 1>that's going to see the most growth over the next

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<v Speaker 1>decade is a thing called personal care aids. These are

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<v Speaker 1>people who take care of everyday stuff when you can't

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<v Speaker 1>do it yourself. This job is going to employ almost

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<v Speaker 1>half a million more people in compared with last year.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a lot of people. And there are tons of

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<v Speaker 1>other jobs in healthcare that are also going to win

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<v Speaker 1>pretty big registered nurses, home health aids, nursing assistance, medical assistance.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's say I'm squeamish. I don't like to see blood.

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<v Speaker 1>I get a bit uneasy around sick people. Makes me sad.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I'm not a huge guy in terms of

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<v Speaker 1>guzzling medicine or administering medicine. So what else could I

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<v Speaker 1>do when I get old? We've got other jobs for you,

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<v Speaker 1>I promise, Thank god there are You were really emphatic there.

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<v Speaker 1>That was great. Over the next ten years, it's expected

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<v Speaker 1>that will add almost ten million jobs. Around a quarter

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<v Speaker 1>of those jobs are indeed expected to be in healthcare,

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<v Speaker 1>so that's a huge share, but it's still only a

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<v Speaker 1>quarter of those jobs. So even though it's a fast

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<v Speaker 1>growing industry, there's going to be a lot of other

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<v Speaker 1>jobs growing. So there's a lot of other jobs. There's

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of other high paying jobs that are going

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<v Speaker 1>to be added. Outside of the health care industry. You

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<v Speaker 1>see a lot of growth and business and financial operations,

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<v Speaker 1>computer and mathematics occupations, management occupations. One of the category

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<v Speaker 1>that's growing strongly that is a good paying job that

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't necessarily require a college degree are installation, maintenance and

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<v Speaker 1>repair occupations. And that's one of the categories where the

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<v Speaker 1>aging of the workforce factors in. Is that like the

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<v Speaker 1>guy who comes in and puts in your cable box

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<v Speaker 1>at his or the plumber who comes in and compares

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<v Speaker 1>that that when you sort of think of installation and repair,

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<v Speaker 1>that that's a catch all for all of those skilled,

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<v Speaker 1>in many cases very skilled trades. And we're seeing many

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<v Speaker 1>of the workers in those jobs are getting older and

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<v Speaker 1>so as you see retirements happening, it's going to open

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<v Speaker 1>up a lot of jobs. And I just have to

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<v Speaker 1>mention this category because it's jumping out of me. You've

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<v Speaker 1>listed as an industry offices of dentists and they're supposed

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<v Speaker 1>to do really well. Yeah, I don't have anything specific

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<v Speaker 1>to say about the offices of that dis although one

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<v Speaker 1>thing I can say is that now that I've become

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<v Speaker 1>chief Economists at the Department of Labor, the job involves

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<v Speaker 1>such stress that I now grind my teeth at night.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you get a nightguard? I have a nightguard. Now

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<v Speaker 1>help health employ more than this, But I, UM, I

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<v Speaker 1>do think it's part of the broader We're going to

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<v Speaker 1>need more people in healthcare. I like. I also like

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<v Speaker 1>the occupation you guys have here. It's the fastest growing occupation,

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<v Speaker 1>even though it employees a relatively small number of people,

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<v Speaker 1>wind turbine service technicians. That makes me so the story

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<v Speaker 1>behind that. You're right, it's small, but it sticks out

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<v Speaker 1>as the fastest. Yeah, it is because it's been around

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<v Speaker 1>ten or so years when we started, since we started

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<v Speaker 1>to see a big investment in wind turbine and now

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<v Speaker 1>they're coming due for repair, and so we're we are

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<v Speaker 1>now seeing we're going to continue to see the need

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<v Speaker 1>for more of those of repair technicians. That's interesting because

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<v Speaker 1>I still think of them as being a failing new phenomenon.

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<v Speaker 1>But you're signing the replacement cycles already here. Yeah, we've

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<v Speaker 1>really we started to see, um that investment pick up

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<v Speaker 1>five ten years ago. So over the next ten years

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<v Speaker 1>they're gonna start to need to be fixed. Let's let's

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<v Speaker 1>bum everyone out for one second. Which jobs are disappearing

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<v Speaker 1>a CD of those numbers for us? Yeah, so the

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<v Speaker 1>postal service as an industry is going to lose a

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<v Speaker 1>whole lot a hundred and sixty five thousand jobs. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>and we're probably going to see really big losses in

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<v Speaker 1>the number of federal government jobs. To other than that,

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<v Speaker 1>our economy is going to continue to make more progress

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<v Speaker 1>into becoming a service oriented economy. So we're gonna lose

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of manufacturing jobs. Um, these jobs are going

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<v Speaker 1>to move to countries with cheaper labor, or they're going

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<v Speaker 1>to be replaced by robots altogether, HAIDI. I worry that

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<v Speaker 1>we may already know the answer to this, but we've

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<v Speaker 1>got to ask anyway, what do our prospects as journalists

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<v Speaker 1>look like? So one of the journalists, it's tricky. It

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<v Speaker 1>is one of those industries where it's evolving so quickly

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<v Speaker 1>that one way people consume news to day may not

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<v Speaker 1>be the way they consume news the next day. But

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<v Speaker 1>I think the key thing is they're still consuming news

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<v Speaker 1>like you know, people are always going to be hungry

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<v Speaker 1>for the information, and so you guys are doing the

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<v Speaker 1>right thing by being creative about different ways to try

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<v Speaker 1>to get the news to people. Are not like regular

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<v Speaker 1>journalists were cool journals you are. I think she's saying

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<v Speaker 1>we're lucky we were exactly. Well that's a ringing endorsement

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<v Speaker 1>from the US government itself. Yeah, well, we've gone through

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<v Speaker 1>lots of winners and losers. Let's jump into a broader

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<v Speaker 1>discussion about the future of the job market and what

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<v Speaker 1>we can do to be ready for that future. After

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<v Speaker 1>and swaps. Trading involves risk and may not be appropriate

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<v Speaker 1>for all investors. So in a previous episode, we talked

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<v Speaker 1>about how advances and artificial intelligence are allowing engineers to

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<v Speaker 1>make software do all these things that only humans could

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<v Speaker 1>do before. And one of my pet favorites has been

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<v Speaker 1>driverless cars because I don't really like driving and this

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<v Speaker 1>would presumably displace human taxi drivers. So Heidi, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>what are your thoughts on the technological progress that we've

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<v Speaker 1>seen so far are and it's impact on the job

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<v Speaker 1>market and where do you think that's going. So while

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<v Speaker 1>I remain extremely excited about the prospect of driverless cars,

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<v Speaker 1>I do think that there's an important context for thinking

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<v Speaker 1>about how fast things are changing right now. There's a

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<v Speaker 1>sort of breathless conversation out there about this pace of change,

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<v Speaker 1>But there's actually a way we can look at, like

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<v Speaker 1>like sort of measure how fast things are changing, and

0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:32.600
<v Speaker 1>it's productivity growth. So if robots really were stealing all

0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:35.840
<v Speaker 1>our jobs, that means that before something that took you know,

0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.240
<v Speaker 1>ten people to do, now it takes one person to

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<v Speaker 1>sort of supervise for lack of a better word, ten

0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:45.719
<v Speaker 1>robots and so that one human hour of work they

0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:48.240
<v Speaker 1>get the same amount done, where before it took ten

0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:51.560
<v Speaker 1>human hours to do the work. So that kind of

0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:57.960
<v Speaker 1>scenario describes a big acceleration of productivity growth. But if

0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:04.280
<v Speaker 1>you look historically, productivity has typically grown around two percent

0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:07.400
<v Speaker 1>per year. It's sometimes faster, sometimes slower, but that's sort

0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:11.439
<v Speaker 1>of been its long run growth rate. It is, if anything,

0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:15.080
<v Speaker 1>a little slower than that over the last ten years

0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:19.000
<v Speaker 1>than it was before. So we are not seeing a

0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:23.520
<v Speaker 1>massive acceleration and productivity growth that would signal that robots

0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:25.960
<v Speaker 1>were stealing all of our jobs. And our listeners will

0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:28.480
<v Speaker 1>know from our very first episode it is the US

0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:34.960
<v Speaker 1>economies silent menace. Yeah, I I. One of the things

0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:38.760
<v Speaker 1>about that long run productivity growth is that that's happened

0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:42.680
<v Speaker 1>in times of prosperity and times of recessions, but that

0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:46.680
<v Speaker 1>but mostly it's happened in times of prosperity. In times

0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:49.840
<v Speaker 1>of prosperity is when there's a lot of innovation going on,

0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:53.400
<v Speaker 1>and productivity tends to accelerate because there's sort of a

0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:56.280
<v Speaker 1>lot of action out there and investments and innovation and

0:14:56.360 --> 0:14:59.720
<v Speaker 1>people people having the opportunity to try new things that

0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:03.640
<v Speaker 1>can lead to productivity growth um that goes hand in

0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:06.760
<v Speaker 1>hand with a lot of job growth, a lot of

0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:10.760
<v Speaker 1>good things happening, So it doesn't necessarily spell it doesn't

0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:15.800
<v Speaker 1>in my view, productivity growth doesn't spell menace. Um. You know,

0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:20.400
<v Speaker 1>robots will steal some jobs, but the people who then

0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:23.920
<v Speaker 1>benefit from that productivity growth have more income. They buy

0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:27.560
<v Speaker 1>nude things that generates demand for other things that people

0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:30.000
<v Speaker 1>get employed in other places. So there's there's sort of

0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:34.360
<v Speaker 1>there could be adjustment pain as there's one occupation or

0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:39.000
<v Speaker 1>industry that gets subsumed by robots, but it, you know,

0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:41.560
<v Speaker 1>it sort of balloons out elsewhere and there's something else

0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:44.560
<v Speaker 1>at growth. One thing I thought was really interesting in

0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:50.080
<v Speaker 1>projections is participation by youth in the labor force. So

0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:55.160
<v Speaker 1>people ages sixteen to twenty four, and right now they

0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:59.040
<v Speaker 1>make up about almost four of the labor force, but

0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:02.880
<v Speaker 1>that's projected to decrease. So I think it's it's fascinating

0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:06.000
<v Speaker 1>You've got this dynamic where the participation by older adults

0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:09.400
<v Speaker 1>is increasing and the participation by the youngest adults is decreasing.

0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:12.200
<v Speaker 1>What's going on there? Shouldn't the the young ones be

0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:15.120
<v Speaker 1>the ones that are most highly engaged? Is it's solely

0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:18.800
<v Speaker 1>because they're going to college. What what's what's thee you

0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:23.000
<v Speaker 1>put your finger on it. So the UM the there's

0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:26.760
<v Speaker 1>been a long term decline in labor force participation of

0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:30.000
<v Speaker 1>younger people, workers under the age of people under the

0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:34.080
<v Speaker 1>age of and that is a huge chunk of that

0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:37.840
<v Speaker 1>is attributable to people staying in school longer. So it's people.

0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:40.600
<v Speaker 1>You know, even high school graduation rates are going up,

0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:44.240
<v Speaker 1>and then college graduation rates going up, people going and

0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:48.400
<v Speaker 1>getting master's degrees and even higher levels of professional degrees.

0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:52.800
<v Speaker 1>The incidents of that, the share of young workers that

0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:55.960
<v Speaker 1>are continuing on in school is just going up. So

0:16:56.320 --> 0:17:01.320
<v Speaker 1>that um, that piece of the clin mine in labor

0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:04.760
<v Speaker 1>force participation among young people is actually really good news.

0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:08.639
<v Speaker 1>It's people making investments that will set them up to

0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:11.639
<v Speaker 1>get higher earnings going forward. And when you finished this

0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:14.720
<v Speaker 1>report and you sat back and you went home at night,

0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:19.520
<v Speaker 1>did anything keep you up anything? He'd really worry us,

0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:23.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, none of what maybe not in the sense

0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:27.199
<v Speaker 1>that it was what we see wasn't a surprise. The

0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:30.239
<v Speaker 1>even though there's changes, all we were seeing sort of

0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.600
<v Speaker 1>things like the fastest growing jobs are going to be

0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:37.040
<v Speaker 1>in healthcare, that there are. The labor market is evolving

0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:40.640
<v Speaker 1>all the time, but it tends to evolve pretty slowly.

0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:42.840
<v Speaker 1>If you look out in the world and you see

0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:46.000
<v Speaker 1>the jobs that people do, it's you know, it's this.

0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:49.200
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't evolve all that fast. We still have unless

0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:52.359
<v Speaker 1>there's a shock, right, unless we get another another accession,

0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:56.600
<v Speaker 1>oh right right, that would be indeed a uh that

0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:59.160
<v Speaker 1>that I do not want to have happened. And that's

0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:01.360
<v Speaker 1>the stand of mixed in and for as long as

0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:06.439
<v Speaker 1>is absolutely possible. Um. So the thing about these projections

0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:09.080
<v Speaker 1>is that they don't factor that in. These projections come

0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:11.919
<v Speaker 1>out of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, and we we

0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:15.280
<v Speaker 1>certainly it is not their job to try to predict

0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:17.720
<v Speaker 1>when the next recession will be. And so they just

0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:20.560
<v Speaker 1>assume that things are going to be humming along at

0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:23.080
<v Speaker 1>a at a sort of a happy place. And so

0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:26.879
<v Speaker 1>I do get worried about the prospect of another recession,

0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:30.680
<v Speaker 1>but that is not what these numbers are about it

0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:34.200
<v Speaker 1>right right, um, you know, how do you Before a break,

0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:39.480
<v Speaker 1>we talked about the not very encouraging future of print

0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:43.359
<v Speaker 1>journalism at least um so a newspaper, the newspaper and

0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:47.679
<v Speaker 1>periodicals industry is projected to lose more than one thousand

0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:51.520
<v Speaker 1>jobs over the next decade UM. For for people like

0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:57.439
<v Speaker 1>us who are in these potentially losing industries, UM, what

0:18:57.520 --> 0:19:00.560
<v Speaker 1>do you think we should be thinking about it? It

0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:04.040
<v Speaker 1>is tricky because you the well I keep saying things

0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:07.480
<v Speaker 1>evolved slowly, but there's some occupations and industries where things

0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:10.399
<v Speaker 1>are evolving quickly, and journalism in point of those. You

0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:14.159
<v Speaker 1>just see this, it's sort of lightning pace of the

0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:19.080
<v Speaker 1>way people absorb news just seems to be changing all

0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:22.160
<v Speaker 1>the time, really rapidly. But I think you just can

0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:25.359
<v Speaker 1>go back to we know they're still taking a news.

0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:28.280
<v Speaker 1>People are still really hungry for this information, and so

0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:30.919
<v Speaker 1>it will be out there. So the best advice is

0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:35.760
<v Speaker 1>to do what you're doing, experiment, be flexible, be you know,

0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:41.160
<v Speaker 1>sort of able to to um looking forward into how

0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:46.120
<v Speaker 1>people are consuming it and trying to go in that direction. Wonderful. Well,

0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:48.600
<v Speaker 1>thank you Heidi so much for joining us. It's been

0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:52.000
<v Speaker 1>great getting all this wonderful insight from you. It's been

0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:56.359
<v Speaker 1>my pleasure. Happy New Year, you guys, thanks again for

0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:59.400
<v Speaker 1>listening to Bloomberg Benchmark. We will be back next year

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0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:06.720
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0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:09.960
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