1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:11,799 Speaker 1: today's best minds, and Sarah Huckabee Sanders has rolled back 4 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: big portions of her state's child labor protections. We have 5 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 1: a great show today. NPRS David Fulkenflick stops by to 6 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: talk to us about the latest leaks in the Fox 7 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: News dominion lawsuit. Then we'll talk to former Senator Doug 8 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: Jones about how Dems can regain ground in the South. 9 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: But first we have the host of the Laurence O'Donnell Show, 10 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 1: MSNBC's Laurence O'Donnell. Welcome back to Fast Politics, Laurence O'Donnell. Oh, 11 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: great to be back with my new microphone that I'm 12 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: so proud of that I bought Jeff for this conversation. Yes, 13 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: we love that. Very excited. I want to talk to 14 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: you first about the dominion filing because this is not 15 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,320 Speaker 1: your first rodeo and you have been in this business, 16 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:07,479 Speaker 1: the business of politics and then the business of media. 17 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,320 Speaker 1: I think a lot of us suspected that this was happening, 18 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: but were you just shocked that there were like actual 19 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: text messages documenting these things. No, I would have been 20 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: shocked if there was a shred of evidence of a 21 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: shred of decency there, including in the you know, Brett 22 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: Bayer department, which has always been corrupt. But you know, 23 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 1: the news media has never wanted to believe that there's 24 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: this impostor. It's not a cancer on the business. It's 25 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 1: just an imposter. You know. It's like the Wrestling Channel said, 26 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: he called itself Wrestling News, and the news media just 27 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: all it's news. It's been a fraud from the first day. 28 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 1: I remember before they opened their doors. I remember walking 29 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: down sixth Avenue and hearing from someone that, oh, you know, 30 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: Rupert Murdock's going to start a Republican TV channel. I, 31 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: because I'm brilliant about these things, said, well, no one's 32 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: gonna watch that. And you know, because Republican TV channel 33 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: to me sounded like more boring than c SPAN at 34 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 1: the time, because the Republican Party was Bob Dole and 35 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: you know that stuff. But you know, here we are. 36 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: It's always been what it is, and it's and the 37 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: It just horrifies me that people keep using the word 38 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: that Rupert Murdoch ordered them to use when he filled 39 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: out the corporate papers titling the business Fox News. That 40 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 1: is a classic case of what the Senator I worked for, 41 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: Daniel Patrick moynahan, would call semantic infiltration, and that is 42 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: infiltrating your language to force you to say what I 43 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 1: want you to say. And so there are these attempts 44 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: to do that in politics in various ways, with phrases 45 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: like pro life. I'm going to call myself pro life, 46 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: therefore you have to and the news business obeys those commands. 47 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 1: But I mean, I have not put the word news 48 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 1: after the word Fox in many years because it's just 49 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: a lie and the whole thing is a fraud, and 50 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,679 Speaker 1: everybody working there, there's not a single person working there 51 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: is in the news business. There never has been. Yeah, No, 52 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's right. And I just want 53 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: to get back to what you said about Brett Bair, 54 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: because they had this distinction that there was a news 55 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: side and an entertainment side. But what's very clear from 56 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: this is that's not true. Yeah, I know Brett Bair 57 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 1: was horrified that Fox called Arizona first, and he was 58 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: horrified that they lost viewers because of it. That's never 59 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: happened in any of the real news divisions around there. 60 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: I can confess to you this may come as a 61 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: shock if I pull back the curtain a little bit, 62 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: but I personally, I won't speak for others at MSNBC, 63 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: but I personally was deeply disappointed when we realized Donald 64 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: Trump was going to win the Electoral College. And I 65 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: realized that about a half an hour before other people, 66 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: because I was sitting there with Steve Schmidt and James Carville. 67 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: We had our own little studio and we would do 68 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: our own little cut in and for twenty minutes at 69 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: a time, we were not on TV, and those two 70 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: guys were doing way more than the decision desk does. 71 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: They were texting and calling people they know in such 72 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: and such a county in North Carolina. And I would 73 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: hear James Carville talking to someone in North Carolina and say, well, 74 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: if we lose that, then we're going to lose Wisconsin. 75 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: And he's and all he's getting is a report from 76 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 1: one particular district in North Carolina that he knows mirrors 77 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 1: Wisconsin and all that. So so I kind of knew 78 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 1: the tragedy unfolding about a half an hour before everybody else, 79 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:38,239 Speaker 1: And there wasn't a moment where it crossed my mind, well, 80 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 1: we can't as a network go out there and say 81 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 1: Donald Trump won. We can't do that. You know, It's like, no, sorry, 82 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: never crossed my mind. I think that's a really good point, 83 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:50,919 Speaker 1: is that there they tried to shape the news to 84 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: fit the narrative. But I'm curious. It seems like the 85 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: larger problem that Fox ends up having, and you see 86 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: in these filings, is that they have given their listeners 87 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: viewers so much of what they want that they have 88 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: sort of been unable to shape reality to what these 89 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: people needed to hear. And so there is this sort 90 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: of almost I mean, I feel like it's like something 91 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 1: from a sci fi novel where they realize that they 92 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 1: can no longer shape reality to meet the demand. They 93 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: are continuing to deliver exactly what they believe that audience wants. 94 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:28,840 Speaker 1: Here's the funny thing about it. You know when they 95 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: talk about, oh, we watched our ratings collapse that week. Yeah, 96 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 1: it was a rough week for Fox. But here's the 97 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: way it goes. And everybody knows this, and everyone knew 98 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: this ahead of time, and it would have been true 99 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: in two thousand and four, you know, with George w Bush, 100 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: and it was true in two thousand and eight, you 101 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: know one Obama won. So if the Republican wins the presidency, 102 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:53,479 Speaker 1: the MSNBC ratings are going to drop because there's going 103 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: to be a depression in a majority of that audience. Okay, 104 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: then they don't want to they don't want to consume 105 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: this stuff anymore. And if the Democrats win the presidency, 106 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 1: there was always a drop, always, every time, a drop 107 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: in the Fox ratings that week, okay, And it didn't 108 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: mean Fox wasn't going to make billions of dollars. It 109 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: meant there was this kind of moment, you know, the 110 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: super Bowl is over and the fans are not watching 111 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,840 Speaker 1: football the next week. That's just the way it works. 112 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 1: And so their panic about losing audience is just so 113 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 1: despicable on every level, including the money level, because they 114 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 1: were all all going to remain very, very rich. Fox 115 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: was going to continue to make billions, and they are 116 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: panicking over this relatively slight and totally predictable and temporary 117 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: drop in ratings. It's so interesting though, because they sort 118 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: of can't ride with it. But I also do think 119 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,239 Speaker 1: it ended up being What I think is pretty interesting 120 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 1: is that they ended up this choice they made, which 121 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,239 Speaker 1: they clearly made a choice. They knew what they were doing. 122 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 1: Clear they knew that the twenty twenty election was free 123 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: and fair. They did it because they just didn't have 124 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: a hold on the market. They did it because they 125 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: thought it was their job. It's a Republican party operation 126 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: and the doctrine of the Republican party in the twenty 127 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: first century, and this was not always the case, but 128 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: by the twenty first century what it became, Republicanism simply 129 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: became we hate liberals. Right, It's nothing else. There's no policy, 130 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: there's no balance the budget, there's no eliminate the deficit. 131 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: There's there's no policy at all except tax cuts. And 132 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: we hate liberals. And we get our tax cuts by 133 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: convincing people who are not rich, who also hate liberals, 134 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: to vote for us. And that's the entire scheme. And 135 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: that's Murdoch's entire scheme. He has no other objective except, 136 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: you know, the demonization of liberals, and so that's the game. 137 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: So they're going to do that, and they're going to 138 00:07:56,320 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: do whatever is necessary to do that, and they're absolutely 139 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: you know, limits, and I promise you there have never 140 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: been limits There's never been a day at Fox, never 141 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: a day where they had any kind of moral or 142 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: ethical limit on what they might do or say. Yeah, 143 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: and all you're seeing if you see a difference between 144 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: Sean Hannity nineteen ninety seven and Sean Hannity twenty seventeen, 145 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: and there is it is simply what is acceptable? What 146 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: are the bounds of acceptability? And so those things change 147 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: in every sphere of life. You know, over time, over 148 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: a twenty year period, you know, what's acceptable to say 149 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: contracts and expands in different kinds of ways. And so 150 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 1: they're just playing within the zone that is now acceptable. 151 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: And what's acceptable now in Republicanism is literally anything. It 152 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: takes any anything to beat and destroy Liberals. So one 153 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: of the things that I've been continually having a argument 154 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: with even very smart Republicans but tend to be Republicans, 155 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: is this idea that DeSantis is somehow less dangerous than Trump. 156 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: Can you just debunk this? I mean, this just blows 157 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: my mind, this idea that somehow someone who is much 158 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: better at doing this is less dangerous than Trump. Yeah, 159 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: I don't think there's any real evidence for that case 160 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: that de Santis is less dangerous than Trump. I always 161 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: when I was watching Trump, I was always thanking the 162 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: luck of the draw every day. Just how lucky we 163 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: are that he's an imbecile. We are so lucky that 164 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: he is as deeply, profoundly and permanently stupid as he is, 165 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 1: because he was just a couple of nachees smarter. You know, 166 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,839 Speaker 1: the things that he was trying to do could be 167 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 1: done with better premeditation, like even for example, I'm going 168 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 1: to need an attorney general. Well when re election comes, 169 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: who's going to do anything for me in the Justice Department? 170 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: He had, because he's stupid, reason to believe that Barr 171 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: was that guy. And Barr was disgraceful, and Bar disgraced 172 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: himself beyond what anyone who knew him could have imagined. 173 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: But still there were going to be limits, you know 174 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,959 Speaker 1: for somebody who grew up in the law like Bill Barr. 175 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,719 Speaker 1: And Trump found those limits in November, you know, of 176 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: twenty twenty. If he had planned a year ahead of time, 177 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:24,839 Speaker 1: who is the idiot, the hack, the moral I want 178 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 1: as attorney general? For that moment, he could have basically 179 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: told Bill bar to quit right because you don't have 180 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 1: to get this guy confirmed. You don't have to get 181 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: him confirmed. As we saw with the crazy, you know 182 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 1: lawyer from the Justice Department who he temporarily for a 183 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: few hours made acting Attorney General. He could have gotten 184 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: a guy like that in in a smoother way, and 185 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: DeSantis would get that guy in in a smoother way. 186 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: He would have premeditated it. Trump is this imbecile who 187 00:10:55,880 --> 00:11:00,040 Speaker 1: is late with his homework every single time, right and so, 188 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,199 Speaker 1: and we're lucky, you know, we're very lucky because of that. 189 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 1: DeSantis is the most premeditated of his kind I've ever seen. 190 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: Like he's way beyond, way beyond Trump and all of that. Yeah, 191 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:14,959 Speaker 1: that's what I think too. I mean, the book banning 192 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: the education stuff. I mean, let me just add one 193 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: difference to DeSantis that could be a civilizing factor. Because 194 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: Donald Trump did something that has never been done before 195 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: in the history of the presidency. Every single person except 196 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: Franklin Roosevelt in our recent time who won the presidency 197 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: immediately tried to figure out, how do I get the 198 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: voters who didn't vote for me? And the reason I 199 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: say except Franklin Roosevelt is because his first election was 200 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:44,559 Speaker 1: a landslide and his second election was even bigger right 201 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 1: and so, but everybody else is, you know, kind of 202 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 1: squeaking in there. You know. JFK won the presidency by 203 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: less than one percent of the vote. Eight years later, 204 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: Richard Nixon wins the presidency by less than one percent 205 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: of the vote. Both of them wanted to sound appealing 206 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 1: to people who didn't vote for them. Everybody has done that. 207 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan did that. Ronald Reagan won forty nine states 208 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: in the electoral college in his reelection because after he 209 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,079 Speaker 1: got elected, and after he built a career as a 210 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: right winger, the most extreme right winger in the party, 211 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:18,079 Speaker 1: every day of his presidency he was trying to appeal 212 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: to what came to be called the Reagan Democrat. Trump 213 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: gets elected, he doesn't. And all I did, I'm telling you, 214 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: when he was elected, all I did was sit there 215 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: and listen for what did he say today to the 216 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: people who didn't vote for him? And there literally was 217 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: not a sentence, not one day of the entire time. 218 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: And that is why he didn't get reelected. If he 219 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: wanted to get it to its most simplest point, that's 220 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: why he didn't get reelected. The guy who came in 221 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: second in the vote but got the electoral College. Anyway, 222 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 1: that guy didn't try to convert any voters. Guess what's 223 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: going to happen to him next time? He's gonna come 224 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:01,199 Speaker 1: in second again. And so to say this, I suspect 225 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 1: I suspect may if he if he were to win 226 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: the White House, he might spend four years trying to 227 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: appeal to people who didn't vote for him and go 228 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: from forty eight percent of the vote up to fifty 229 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: one percent of the vote. Yeah. No, I think that's 230 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,679 Speaker 1: a really good point. I also think and by the way, 231 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: and the way a Republican appeals to people who didn't 232 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: vote for him is obviously not with Republican ideas. It 233 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: is to soften the edges of Republican notions. You know, 234 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: it's the compassionate conservative stuff that the Bushes would talk about, 235 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: right well, and I also think it's sort of faking it, 236 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: right It depends. I mean, you know, George H. W. 237 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: Bush wasn't faking it in the sense that he did 238 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:50,079 Speaker 1: reach legislative compromises with Democrats in Congress, and that some 239 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: of which were significant, you know, and he was condemned 240 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: for it by Republicans. By Pat Buchanan, you know, by 241 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 1: the lunatics. George W. Bush was very much concerned with 242 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: what you thought of him, very much, and he was 243 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,199 Speaker 1: very much concerned about that, even if you didn't vote 244 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: for him, And that is a civilizing influence on politicians. 245 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: Trump has none of it, and in Florida, DeSantis has 246 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: none of it. We'll see what would happen if he 247 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: goes national. I wanted to stroll down on this for 248 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: a minute. Don't you get the sense that DeSantis he 249 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: lost a debate to Charlie Chris. I mean, don't you 250 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: think there's a lot riding on someone who no one 251 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: has ever really seen? No? I think, I actually think 252 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: he's had a great deal of exposure for a presidential candidate, 253 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: you know, way more than Jimmy Carter had as a governor. 254 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: I mean, when Jimmy Carter announced that he was running 255 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: for president, everybody outside of Georgia said, who no one, 256 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: No one knew that name. The same thing with Bill Clinton, 257 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: people didn't know who that guy was. DeSantis's visibility as 258 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: a governor is as high as I've ever seen for 259 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: a governor who was not already a presidential candidate. You know, 260 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: Michael Ducacus nobody knew how to say that word outside 261 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: of Massachuset. It's you know, when he announced as a governor, 262 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: and so he's gotten a tremendous amount of visibility. And 263 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: you know, we're at the stage where debates have declined 264 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: dramatically in how much they matter. If they mattered, Donald Trump, 265 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: you know, would have gotten twenty percent of the vote. 266 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: That's an old notion that we all used to have 267 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: about how is this you know, candidate going to stand 268 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: up in the debates? You know, in presidential debates, it's like, wow, 269 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter very much. The biggest clown in the 270 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: history of presidential debating, you know one the Republican nomination 271 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, and then you know went on from there. Yeah, 272 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: it seemed to make no difference. Do you think that Biden, 273 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: this is an anxiety I have that taking New Hampshire 274 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: out of the lineup is going to hurt him in 275 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: the general election. Not in the least. That's just a 276 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: you know, it's a fetishistic thing that not a single 277 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: voter in a single state cares about. You have to 278 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: remember that most voters in America do not get a 279 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 1: chance ever to participate in a presidential primary that has 280 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: any impact whatsoever on the presidential election. That's the truth 281 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 1: for most American voters, and their spirit as voters is 282 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: not affected by it. I mean, I'd want someone to 283 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: find me the voter in New Hampshire, you know, in 284 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 1: November who says, yeah, I mean, I was gonna I'm 285 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: gonna vote for Biden. But then you know when they 286 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: just I mean, now, now, I've been to New Hampshire. 287 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: I've been to New Hampshire every year of the New 288 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: Hampshire primary for the last i don't know, way too 289 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 1: long a time. They're not exactly thrilled to see you. 290 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: You know, the people of New Hampshire, you know, the 291 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: political fans of New Hampshire love it. They line up 292 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 1: around the blocks to get into high school gymnasiums to 293 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: see Barack Obama. And it's and it is quite exciting 294 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: if you care about that. But you've got to understand 295 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: you're looking at less than one percent of the population 296 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: of New Hampshire, who ever bother to leave their sofas 297 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 1: to go see one of these presential candidates. Yeah, it 298 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,199 Speaker 1: is a good point. Okay, here's my last prediction question. 299 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:06,959 Speaker 1: I'm sorry to do this to you. What can we 300 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 1: just deal with all of your anxieties because I'm here, 301 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 1: as we know, to help you through your anxieties. So 302 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: that's we didentitely dealt with you New Hampshire. Ani, Well 303 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 1: I have another one, so we're in good shape. Okay, 304 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: and again, but I don't want to be wrong that 305 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 1: the dominion court case will go. Do you think that 306 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 1: they'll settle or you think they're gonna I mean, because 307 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: if it goes, I mean, this is going to be 308 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: a pretty big blockbuster. No, so the time to settle 309 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: has passed. The reason you settle these lawsuits is that 310 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 1: you don't want the damage to come out publicly. And 311 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 1: so that's why Fox settled every bill O'Reilly lawsuit. You know, 312 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 1: they settle all these things. Can you settle a lawsuit 313 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: before Rupert Murdoch has to sit down and testify under oath? 314 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: They didn't do it. Now, there's what people are neglecting 315 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: to remember about a settlement is that both sides have 316 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 1: to agree to it. So what we do not yet no, 317 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: and we might someday know, is that Fox made an 318 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: offer to Dominion and Dominion said no. And if your 319 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 1: dominion I personally believe my legal approach to the case. 320 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: Assuming they have twenty million dollars to spend on legal fees, 321 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: which I guess they do, my approach would be do 322 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,679 Speaker 1: not settle under any circumstances, because winning the case in 323 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: court is not important to Dominion's viability as a business. Well, 324 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,439 Speaker 1: they've already won what they needed to do to be 325 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,479 Speaker 1: viable as a business. They have proven in all this 326 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 1: undergrowth testimony by Rupert and everybody else exactly the scope 327 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: and shape of the lies told about Dominion by Fox. 328 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: So Dominion as a business can go forward in the world, 329 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: you know, marketing its services anywhere, and no one will 330 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,199 Speaker 1: ever have to say to them. But wait, you know, 331 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: Fox said you guys are criminals, Like that's never gonna happen. Ever, 332 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: as of today, that's all over. So the important thing 333 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 1: is Dominion has won. It has won its reputation, and 334 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,679 Speaker 1: it has destroyed Fox's reputation. And the only way they 335 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,880 Speaker 1: could do that is get to this point where we're 336 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:17,120 Speaker 1: reading Rupert Murdoch's Undergrowth testimony on TV. And if they 337 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: had settled, you know, six months ago for one hundred 338 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 1: million dollars or three hundred million or five hundred million. 339 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 1: We would know none of this, and so Dominion has 340 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:31,360 Speaker 1: had zero incentive to settle. That's the part people don't 341 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: understand when they talk about settlement. I'm sure Fox would 342 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:38,440 Speaker 1: have loved to settle this a year ago for some 343 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 1: number that they thought was reasonable, or even for a 344 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: number they thought was unreasonable. But the jury verdict is tricky, 345 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: and it may well be that, you know, Dominion doesn't 346 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 1: quote win the case in court in the end, and 347 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: I personally, if I'm on the dominion end of it, 348 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: I don't care. I don't care. I already won. And 349 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: if the jury and if the judge you know, make 350 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 1: rulings that say, you know, this stuff lives within First 351 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 1: Amendment protections, or if you know, Fox establish it gets 352 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: a win like that from the Supreme Court that they 353 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,120 Speaker 1: sort of own in their way, I don't care. It 354 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,919 Speaker 1: doesn't change anything about what we know the facts to be. 355 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,880 Speaker 1: So my strong suspicion about the inside of this is 356 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:28,119 Speaker 1: if there was a settlement attempt by Fox, it was 357 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: refused by Dominion. Yeah. So interesting. Thank you so much, Lawrence. 358 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:38,959 Speaker 1: I hope you'll come back a pleasure. Thank you. David 359 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 1: folken Flick is a media correspondent at MPR. Welcome to 360 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: Fast Politics, David. Thanks glad to join you. It's very 361 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: thrilled to have you. I just want to talk to 362 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:54,440 Speaker 1: you about this continual drip, drip drip of the Fox 363 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 1: News dominion filing. You will have been a media reporter 364 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: for a while. You've written about the Murdochs, You've written 365 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: books about the Murdochs. I mean, what is your hot 366 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: take here? I wouldn't call it a drip drip so 367 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: much as a sort of a series of avalanches, you know, 368 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 1: in recent days. I think what is notable for somebody 369 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,199 Speaker 1: who's covered it closely? Z I have for coming up 370 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 1: on twenty three years. You know the media and Fox 371 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 1: has been a big and growing part of that. You know, 372 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 1: it's really all part of covering media and politics as well. 373 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: Right is how dark it is, how blunt it is, 374 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: how blatant it is, and it is the degree to 375 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: which decisions are made by business imperatives, and those business 376 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: imperatives are ineluctably entangled in politics. And it's not just hey, 377 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 1: we've got a pander to a right wing or a 378 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:48,400 Speaker 1: left wing audience. It's hey, we've got a tamper with 379 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 1: what we present to our folks's reality. It's not just 380 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 1: that we're Mother Jones and a left of center outfit 381 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: that does some reporting, or the Washington Free Beacon or whatever. 382 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: It's literally withholding the facts that you know to be 383 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: true because you know that this is a money gusher 384 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,640 Speaker 1: and you don't want to turn off this bigot. In fact, 385 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: this bigot has been drawing up a bit. Right after 386 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 1: election night twenty twenty, and the original sin of Fox 387 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 1: calling Arizona for Joe Biden on that night before any 388 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 1: other broadcast network or cable network had done so. Trump 389 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: voters who had been tuned into Fox to hope that 390 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: they could celebrate, were like, not only celebrating, they're like, oh, 391 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 1: screw you guys, with the guys bringing us this news. 392 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: You guys are the ones doing this. And for days 393 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: other news outlets did not, And you see intimations from 394 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: people inside Fox saying, well, they're just doing that to 395 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,120 Speaker 1: hose us by leaving us hanging out there. But they 396 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 1: were using different numbers because Fox, joined by the AP 397 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:49,640 Speaker 1: had bailed after the twenty sixteen presidential call was so problematic. 398 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 1: That is, the polling data and everything else really just 399 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: didn't capture what was happening in some of these key 400 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: swing states. And so Fox kept telling reporters like me, oh, 401 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: we've come up with better math, We've come up with 402 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: a better way to do this, and they felt that 403 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: they had had some success in the off elections of 404 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, and then they went all in. Now, that 405 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: turned out to be a very close call, and in retrospect, 406 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: one wouldn't have begrudged them not making the call, given 407 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: how close it turned out to be. It was a 408 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,919 Speaker 1: razor thin you know, there's an interesting statistical argument to 409 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: make about whether or not they were taking a little 410 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:21,439 Speaker 1: bit of a leap of faith with their new numbers. 411 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: But they made the call and they trusted those their projections, 412 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: and then you see Fox people. A civil war erupted 413 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: within Fox as a result of that. So it was 414 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,439 Speaker 1: I surprised. No, So much of this is based on 415 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,479 Speaker 1: pairing what you see happen on the air with what 416 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: people from inside Fox are telling you. As a result, 417 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 1: I'm not really surprised. It's just so blatant. There's no 418 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: code words, there's no sleight of hand happening, and you know, 419 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: it really only occurred to me in recent days. How 420 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: much of this, probably this incredibly rich documentary record that 421 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: dominion is drawing on. We can talk about the merits 422 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: of the case in a set, but how much of 423 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 1: it's influenced by the fact that it's ocurring in the 424 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: age of COVID and so people aren't having these conversations 425 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: in person all that much. They're emailing and texting each 426 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: other more than they probably would have, not that they 427 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: you know, it's not like Tucker and Sean and Laura 428 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 1: are always going out to drinks at night. You know, 429 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: they can text if they want to text. It's not 430 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,120 Speaker 1: that I think they particularly like each other, but they 431 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: have common interests in common grievances. And man, after that election, 432 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 1: they are on it. They think that Fox hates them. 433 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: They think that the news side hates them. They hate 434 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,119 Speaker 1: the reporters who work for them for pointing out false 435 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: claims that are made on their shows on Fox and 436 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 1: more publicly, it is absolutely civil war happening internally at 437 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,879 Speaker 1: that network. And it's it's a sight to behold and 438 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: to lift up under the rock and see how things behave. 439 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: And Molly, let's acknowledge that if NPR or the New 440 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 1: York Times or CBS or CNN or anybody had all 441 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: of its Somebody described this as being like an X ray. 442 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: You know, this is more like three dMRI of all 443 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: the organs at all the bones, a the muscles, right like, 444 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,439 Speaker 1: this is everything pretty much. It's really ugly. Yeah, I 445 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: think it's kind of shocking. Were you surprised that Tucker 446 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: hated Trump so much or that he'd sent that text messager? Now? 447 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: I mean, if he was thinking hard, given how often 448 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: Dominion was sending notes saying the stuff isn't true, he 449 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:20,439 Speaker 1: might have thought, Wow, there might be a lawsuit in 450 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 1: my future, and let's let's keep this. You know, let 451 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: me not express this, but Tucker, it is very hard 452 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,439 Speaker 1: not to conclude that Tucker is a pretty cynical person. 453 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 1: Does Tucker actually believed there was no violence on January six, 454 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: twenty one the US Capital? Does Tucker actually think these 455 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: were just a pleasant, peaceful protesters ambling perhaps a little 456 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: too far past a velvet rope that they shouldn't have 457 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: the fact that you can find people not committing violence 458 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 1: at given moments of course the day, does that prove that? 459 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: Sworn testimony, videotape convictions confessions, all these things that have 460 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: happened from people who participated in those bloody events, that 461 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: we will just have that a race from our minds. No, 462 00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,719 Speaker 1: he's providing an hour where he can talk to the audience, 463 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: to them what they want to hear. And there's a 464 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 1: lot of misdirection. You know, he lows Trump. So what 465 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: he does is he goes after Trump's enemies rather than 466 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,440 Speaker 1: having to go after you defend trumpet you know, Fox 467 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,439 Speaker 1: during the second Bush term in office, a second George W. 468 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: Bush term obviously was kind of depressing to watch. It 469 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,119 Speaker 1: was not fun. They had to defend things like the 470 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,679 Speaker 1: war in a Rock which got increasingly ugly. They had 471 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: defend Katrina, they had defend the collapse of the global like. 472 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 1: There was a lot to defend, right, a lot more 473 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 1: fun going after Obama. And so the thing about Trump 474 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: was they kind of would have been happy to have 475 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: Hillary to go after for another four years, right, That 476 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 1: would have been fun for them. They could have replayed 477 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: all the hits of the Clinton years, and instead they've 478 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: got to defend Trump. But it turns out Trump is 479 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: artificially stirring the passions of their audiences to keep watching 480 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 1: because nobody knows what he's going to do next, and 481 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,400 Speaker 1: he keeps calling into Fox, and he keeps choosing them, 482 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: and they just go along for the ride and hold 483 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: on as best as they can. So that's what you know. 484 00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: Tucker is doing Tucker's counter programming. It's a TV thing 485 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: and and they're letting him do it because they have 486 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 1: no control. Right, he's too valuable. And also at this point, 487 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: the hosts are running the asylum, right, I mean, if 488 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,199 Speaker 1: you're going to go to that analogy, I think you know, 489 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 1: the common wisdom is that in some ways the inmates 490 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: are running the asylum, that the viewers are that for 491 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: a long time, Trump kind of was, you know, with 492 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: his kitchen cabinet of Sean Hannity and Janine Perrow and 493 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: lou Dobbs bar Romo and others right where he's literally 494 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: pulling people into the administration off Fox from watching them 495 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 1: do things. Pete Hedgesith was up for I'm not mistaken 496 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: the Veterans Administration Secretary on the basis of what he 497 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: says on Fox and Friends. That's a guy who doesn't 498 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: wash his hands, right, that is true. He said that. 499 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: I mean credit to his co host who was like, yeah, 500 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: that's probably something I don't want to know. But there, 501 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 1: I mean, it's such an incredible situation to be and 502 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,719 Speaker 1: do you think that, I mean, who do you? You know? 503 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: Lou Dobbs is now out right, and it seemed like 504 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 1: he was kind of under the bus there by Rupert 505 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: who said he never watches him. That was kind of 506 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,640 Speaker 1: great when he said he doesn't watch Fox Business Network, 507 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: although he called it a channel. You know, it was like, 508 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: you know, I can't imagine working for that network and 509 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,239 Speaker 1: feeling very great about that. But you know, there are 510 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: a lot of them are in recent money to do, 511 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:17,879 Speaker 1: so so what are you going to do? Right? Dobbs 512 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,400 Speaker 1: was thrown over when not Dominion Voting Systems, but Smartmatic, 513 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,360 Speaker 1: an election software company that essentially had almost no involvement 514 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: in the twenty twenty elections, filed suit on its own 515 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,919 Speaker 1: where Dobbs was out the next day and Fox is like, well, no, 516 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: this is all previously a scheduled reshuffling and reconstruction and 517 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:37,879 Speaker 1: Dobbs basically was out in his ear and at the 518 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: time it seemed implausible, too untrue, And now it just 519 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 1: is very clear what occurred. And my experience in covering 520 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 1: the Murdoch and various scandals over the years, of which 521 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: there have been a decent number. They'll throw people over 522 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: the back of the sled of the wolves at as 523 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: low a level as possible, but as high a level 524 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: as needed, and then if that doesn't go, they'll go 525 00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: up the ladder a little bit. And right now I 526 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: think they're going to do anything because Fox has maintained 527 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: and Murdoch said in his speaking under oath to lawyers 528 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 1: that he saw no need to apologize. They were reporting, 529 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 1: and this is an integral part of Fox's legal defense, 530 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: they were reporting inherently newsworthy claims, Hey, the presidential elections 531 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 1: were rigged by an inherently newsworthy person, Hey, the sitting 532 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: president of the the United States, and people speaking on his behalf, 533 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 1: and that if you were to cut that off, then 534 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: the Washington Post, an MSNBC and everybody else will pay 535 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: a real price journalistically as well. What, of course, Dominion says, 536 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: and a lot of media lawyers I talked to say, 537 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: is there isn't that analogy, because what Fox did is 538 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: so egregious, and because we have not only the clarity 539 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: which is legally needed that key folks knew that what 540 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 1: they were putting on the air was untrue, and that 541 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: the people presenting it weren't credible either, but also that 542 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 1: they had a motive, which is, we have to win 543 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: back these Trump voters as our viewers. And you don't 544 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: actually need a motive proven in that way to win 545 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: defamation in a lot of states. But my goodness, you 546 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: certainly seem to have declared, and you know there's back 547 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 1: and forth. We can talk about the legal merits, but 548 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: as a supposed news operation, this is a business enterprise. 549 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: Talking about the brand promise and the politics are a 550 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: key element of it, and the journalism, although rupert of 551 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: all people occasionally waves the flag in these private correspondences, 552 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: is not just like a distant third, but like thirteenth 553 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: out of three. So interesting? Do you think that they 554 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: will go to trial? And also I have a question 555 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 1: for you. This is because it's in Delaware, they can 556 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,959 Speaker 1: claim more damages right in the civil My understanding in 557 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: this case from following it so far is that they 558 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: are applying New York state law in terms of defamation, 559 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 1: but they're applying Delaware state law in terms of the 560 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: administration of the case and the flow of the case, 561 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 1: and that gets into some pretty picking un areas. And 562 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 1: I am not a member of the bar in either 563 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 1: state or any state, and not playing one on TV 564 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: or on this podcast, but I would say that, you know, 565 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: the judge hasn't laughed these damages out of court. Fox 566 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 1: has made a fairly muscular or at least rhetorically muscular 567 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: argument that the extent of these damages. Dominion voting systems 568 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 1: is asking for one point six billion dollars, but that's 569 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: sort of a notional figure that they're clearly inflated in 570 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: BS and Dominion is arguing, though, that we have reason 571 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: to say this, and there's, you know, the question of 572 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 1: reputational harm, there's the question of actual harm, and there's 573 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: the question of punitive damages. So they feel that it 574 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: all does that. So that's one world have to see. 575 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: But you know, it's interesting that Fox is stressing all 576 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: this stuff. It makes sense in the sense that they're saying, 577 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 1: you have to prove you or hurt, and one way 578 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 1: to prove reputational harm is financial harm, right, But that's 579 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: really an appellate question. That's the kind of thing you're like, 580 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: well we lost, now we've got to fight over how 581 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 1: much we actually have to pay and then you appeal it. 582 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: This is not uncommon. I don't want to be unfair 583 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: to Fox. They already have a very strong appellet team 584 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: in place, that is the people who will argue the appeals, 585 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: which says to you that they don't have Iron Clan 586 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: confidence they're going to win this thing. But when you 587 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: have as much money as the Murdocks do and as 588 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: Foxcorp does, you know you hire those people as a 589 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: routine anyway, I mean, does Fox eventually say like this 590 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 1: is too expensive or I mean Dominion clearly is going 591 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 1: for blood. Right, There's clearly some ideological like you can't 592 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: ruin USh ruin us kind of thing. I mean right, 593 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: So Dominion wants to come out of this with a 594 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: ton of money and preferably with some sort of prominent 595 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: retraction and apology. The Murdochs want to come out of 596 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: this without having to tell their audiences that they were 597 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: not only that they were misled, but that they were 598 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 1: intentionally misled and deceived and lied to. The Murdochs have 599 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 1: shown in previous scandals I've covered. There was the tabloid 600 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: scandals in Britain, and I started stopped counting after they 601 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 1: exceeded I think it was two hundred million dollars in 602 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: various things attached to that. It wasn't that they paid 603 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 1: that out as illegal fee for the people they wronged exactly, 604 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,719 Speaker 1: but those were like a series of costs associated if 605 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 1: I'm remembering it correctly to that, and it's been a while. 606 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 1: They definitely paid more than two hundred million in the 607 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 1: Fox sexual harassment scandal that largely but not entirely focused 608 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: on Roger Ales, you know who they tossed out. Really 609 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 1: the week basically that Donald Trump got the Republican national 610 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: nomination for president in twenty sixteen, I was in Cleveland 611 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: at the RNC intending to write a bunch of stories, 612 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 1: and it was all Roger all the time, because these 613 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 1: allocations came out, and it was just it was the 614 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: biggest story on the floor, to be honest, beyond Trump. 615 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: And they paid, you know, many hundreds of millions of dollars. 616 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 1: You could argue close to a billion dollars for these 617 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: various settlements and payoffs that involved this completely unsexy part 618 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: of what's called News Corp, which is a Murdoch's publishing 619 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 1: side and used to be all unified under the same umbrella. 620 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: I think it's called something like News America, which was 621 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: basically a supermarket marketing thing that back in the day 622 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 1: made a ton of money where they placed ads and 623 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 1: coupons and supermarkets. When you go through the aisles, you 624 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: could pull off fifty cents here, and they have decals 625 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 1: on the floor or whatever. And it turned out they 626 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 1: did all kinds of things to basically run their competitors 627 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,719 Speaker 1: into the ground that probably violated the law, and so 628 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 1: they paid hundreds of millions dollar there. So you know, 629 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 1: if Murdoch could cut a check tomorrow and pay two 630 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: hundred million dollars and just make this go away, I 631 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: imagine that would be a tough but fine deal for 632 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: them to strike. And I don't think that's what Dominion wants. 633 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 1: I think they want to play to a higher pain threshold, 634 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: both in terms of money and to make him confront 635 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: what he did and the less that the Murdocks are 636 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,800 Speaker 1: willing to acknowledge the higher dollar figure I would imagine 637 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 1: a settlement would take. But so far, you know, what 638 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,359 Speaker 1: I'm told is that there are no signs of any 639 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 1: settlement talks happening, and that, to be honest, I think 640 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,879 Speaker 1: that's almost entirely on the dominion side, that the Fox 641 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 1: Court would at least entertain the conversations. It's so interesting, 642 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 1: even though they acknowledged doing nothing wrong so far, amazeing 643 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: too soon to count Newsmax and OA n out de 644 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,240 Speaker 1: fine counting them out. They've been dropped by cable company 645 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: as those two are sort of you know, they had 646 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 1: this moment and it's and it's sort of been now 647 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,839 Speaker 1: kind of they've kind of fallen out of aber. I mean, 648 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 1: do you think there's a world in which Fox loses 649 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:05,879 Speaker 1: those viewers and they go to Newsmax and o an. 650 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 1: I mean, if you look at this completely stripped of morality, 651 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 1: I think the biggest damage Fox could do to its 652 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:17,360 Speaker 1: business model is to reveal to its viewers the contempt 653 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,840 Speaker 1: in which they hold them. That is, they don't respect 654 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 1: them truth. You can't handle the truth, right. That's their 655 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 1: biggest damage outside of the question of their ratings. I 656 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 1: think they're going to you know, it's almost like a 657 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,280 Speaker 1: seesaw where there's an inverse relationship between their reputation outside 658 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,320 Speaker 1: and the reputation with their audience, where they're going to 659 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: just take a huge hit with establishment Washington, mainstream institutions, 660 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,400 Speaker 1: the news part of Fox, which is really shriveled and 661 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 1: withered and lost some of its biggest figures. Chep Smith, 662 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,400 Speaker 1: Karl Cameron, their long time guy, walked away saying it 663 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: was too much for him. Chris Wallace saying that the 664 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: fever fantasies of January sixth by Tucker Carlson was a 665 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 1: step too far for him. You know, these are a 666 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 1: thing you're seeing. There are very few figures other than 667 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,880 Speaker 1: Brett Baer. You know Eric Shawn, you know as a 668 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: reporter and some time anchor, but you know he has 669 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,840 Speaker 1: a quiet profile there. Right. They're just there's a diminishment. 670 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 1: They got rid of Chris Stirewald and Bill Salmon, who 671 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,239 Speaker 1: were defenders of the decision desk and other things. They 672 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,880 Speaker 1: just they've really widowed down the muscle that they have 673 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,200 Speaker 1: on that side of things. And you can take issue 674 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 1: with those guys too, but at least they were there, right. So, 675 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,600 Speaker 1: it seems to me that Newsmax and o N are 676 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,560 Speaker 1: unlikely to be major challengers to Fox unless it somehow 677 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: breaks that brand promise that Ray Shaw and CEO Fox 678 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 1: News CEO Suzanne Scott were so focused on. In the documents, 679 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,879 Speaker 1: that have been released and start backing away from this 680 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:46,720 Speaker 1: kind of culture grievance coverage and attending to the needs 681 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 1: and the and the sensibilities and the fears of the 682 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,360 Speaker 1: Trump voter. Even if they're not pro Trump, which they 683 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 1: aren't at the moment, they're really very run to santistish 684 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: at the moment. So that's what I think the real 685 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 1: issue is. I also think that their audience, if it fractures, 686 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: will probably go to things that may not be as 687 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,799 Speaker 1: conventional TV. You know, you can go to whatever the 688 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: newest bripe part is, you can go to the Daily Wire, 689 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:12,320 Speaker 1: you can go to other people who are going to 690 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,719 Speaker 1: mainline the stuff into your veins if you want, without 691 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,920 Speaker 1: the need to have any journalistic sensibilities at all. Thank 692 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 1: you so much, David. That was really depressing. I do 693 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: my best every little bit I can do to bring 694 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,800 Speaker 1: you down allies. You know, look, there are people inside 695 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 1: Fox who think, hey, this is going to be a 696 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 1: wake up call, and after we emerge from it, you know, 697 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 1: Fox is going to have to revitalize its news coverage 698 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:36,400 Speaker 1: and what have you. But at the moment they're not 699 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:40,240 Speaker 1: saying anything like that because they're not able probably legally 700 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,000 Speaker 1: or willing from a moral standpoint to say what we 701 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 1: did was wrong, and Dominion in its latest filings has 702 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 1: made a point of that. To say, Fox has basically 703 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: conceded the point because they haven't done anything to defend 704 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 1: an affirmative argument for why any of this stuff had 705 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 1: any validity or credibility to it. And that's just a 706 00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,319 Speaker 1: very different way of looking at what Fox did. Ah, 707 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 1: thank you so much, Thank thanks, Molly. Doug Jones is 708 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 1: the former junior Senator from the state of Alabama. Welcome 709 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 1: to Fast Politics, Senator Doug Jones. Thank you, Molly. It's 710 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 1: great to be with you. I really appreciate the opportunity here. First, 711 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,400 Speaker 1: I think we should talk about this weekend in Selma. 712 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:28,239 Speaker 1: Bloody Sunday weekend in Selma is always a very very 713 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,319 Speaker 1: special commemoration and that's the best way to put this 714 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 1: as a commemoration. They have been doing this. The folks, 715 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:38,399 Speaker 1: the organizers down there, have done a wonderful job of 716 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:42,359 Speaker 1: having a jubilee every year on the first weekend in 717 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 1: March that culminates in a recreation of the walk across 718 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 1: the edmon Fettis Bridge. This year, President Biden came down 719 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,080 Speaker 1: gave a fabulous speech at the foot of the bridge. 720 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,799 Speaker 1: There was a great crowd, enthusiastic crowd. Molly. I think 721 00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:00,959 Speaker 1: it's so important that we continue those types of recognitions 722 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 1: and commemorations because you know, we have come so far 723 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 1: and turn so many pages on the Jim Crow South, 724 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,560 Speaker 1: but we seem to be flipping some of those pages 725 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:13,000 Speaker 1: back right now with voter suppression and so many other 726 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:16,960 Speaker 1: laws that discriminate and make it more difficult for minority 727 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,920 Speaker 1: communities to really get the full benefit of this country. 728 00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,560 Speaker 1: It's so important to remember where we've been so that 729 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:24,640 Speaker 1: we try to make sure we don't go there in 730 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 1: the future. It's a fabulous weekend. It's quite a big 731 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 1: deal for Biden to come down for that. Can you 732 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 1: talk to us a little bit about his thinking. It 733 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 1: is a big deal. It's a big deal for any president. 734 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,960 Speaker 1: The president's usually come when it is a signature commemoration 735 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 1: like the fiftieth or the forty fifth. President Obama was there, 736 00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,520 Speaker 1: President Clinton came, when President Obama came, even former President 737 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 1: George W. Bush came. But for this president to be 738 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:55,279 Speaker 1: there at the fifty eighth, which is not a signature 739 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 1: event but just a commemoration. I think says a lot 740 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: about him and where his heart is and where he 741 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,920 Speaker 1: wants to be and wants the country to be. He 742 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,840 Speaker 1: sees and understands troubably be as good as any president 743 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 1: we've had, including President Obama, of where things are in 744 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,120 Speaker 1: this country right now, and that is why he has 745 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:19,400 Speaker 1: been appointing so many people of color, particularly women, black women, 746 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,279 Speaker 1: to the federal bench, why his administration is perhaps the 747 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:27,359 Speaker 1: most diverse of any administration in history. He sees that 748 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:31,440 Speaker 1: the country is becoming more diverse every day, and he 749 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:33,440 Speaker 1: is the president of that country, and he wants to 750 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,640 Speaker 1: celebrate that. But again, he also sees that there are 751 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,600 Speaker 1: proud boys out there, and there are oath keepers out there, 752 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,240 Speaker 1: and there are those who commit mass murders in Buffalo 753 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,680 Speaker 1: and other places around this country because of hate speech 754 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,640 Speaker 1: and race. He's got the bully pulpit. He's the leader 755 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,920 Speaker 1: of this country, and he wants people to understand the 756 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,880 Speaker 1: significance of what happened, but also the significance of where 757 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,959 Speaker 1: we are today as a country and where we need 758 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,160 Speaker 1: to be and going forward as a country. So I 759 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,840 Speaker 1: think his thinking is that this is Selma is the 760 00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,680 Speaker 1: time and the place to be right now, probably before 761 00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:14,160 Speaker 1: he kicks off his his presidential campaign, to showcase the 762 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:18,840 Speaker 1: countries and his commitment to diversity, to equity, to inclusion. 763 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:22,360 Speaker 1: You have sort of been very central to try to 764 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,359 Speaker 1: move the South out of you know, the sort of 765 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 1: terrifying Jim Crow in apartheid. I mean, this is exactly 766 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:31,799 Speaker 1: called it like it is. That's what it was. That's 767 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:33,920 Speaker 1: what it was, and that's what it is. And how 768 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:37,640 Speaker 1: do you feel right now with America being where it 769 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:42,160 Speaker 1: is and also just the sort of larger landscape. Well, look, 770 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,719 Speaker 1: you know you have to qualify everything by saying America 771 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,799 Speaker 1: is not the Jim Crow days that I grew up 772 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,799 Speaker 1: in the fifties and sixties. Alabama is not the Jim 773 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,160 Speaker 1: Crow time Alabama to the South, the country is not 774 00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,879 Speaker 1: the kind of country where lynchings take place as off 775 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,360 Speaker 1: and as they did a century ago. And we have 776 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:07,120 Speaker 1: come such a long way, however, we still have miles 777 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,880 Speaker 1: to go before we sleep. And I think people should 778 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,600 Speaker 1: recognize that and see that because if you look demographically 779 00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:16,839 Speaker 1: at the country and where things are moving, we are 780 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,480 Speaker 1: becoming a more diverse country, and we've been becoming a 781 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:23,399 Speaker 1: more diverse country Moley every since we were founded. I mean, 782 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:27,880 Speaker 1: this country was always meant to be a multi culture, 783 00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:31,680 Speaker 1: multiracial society, even though some people did not want to 784 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:35,279 Speaker 1: accept that. And so we're becoming more diverse from the 785 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:39,319 Speaker 1: moment that we declared our independence from Great Britain. As 786 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:43,240 Speaker 1: we move forward, though, while we're seeing so many people 787 00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,560 Speaker 1: fighting these culture wars and playing on the fears of 788 00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,719 Speaker 1: people across this country, and you see groups like the 789 00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,359 Speaker 1: Oath Keepers and the Proud Boys, and you see politicians 790 00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:55,040 Speaker 1: like Donald Trump and others kind of whipping that into 791 00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,400 Speaker 1: a frenzy. And it's not just Trump, by the way. 792 00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 1: This whole anti woke movement that you see going on 793 00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:04,960 Speaker 1: in the magnifaction of the Republican Party really is troubling. 794 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,520 Speaker 1: It's really frightening. Do you think it's really anti woke 795 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,520 Speaker 1: or do you think it's really a kind of a 796 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:15,759 Speaker 1: bait and switch way of getting back into the sort 797 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,600 Speaker 1: of racism of the past. I'm not sure that it's that, 798 00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:22,920 Speaker 1: except for this, If getting into the racism of the 799 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:27,040 Speaker 1: past helps the political future of people who want to 800 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,440 Speaker 1: run for president, want to run for the Senate, who 801 00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,680 Speaker 1: want to run for governors, if that's what it takes. 802 00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:34,960 Speaker 1: Then there are people that will damn sure do that. 803 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,200 Speaker 1: And that's what's frightening to me. They will take the 804 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:42,920 Speaker 1: country backwards for their own political purposes. I don't think 805 00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,720 Speaker 1: that so many of those folks deep down are the racist, 806 00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,279 Speaker 1: not the kind of racist like I grew up with, 807 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:52,120 Speaker 1: but they haven't their own form if they're doing things 808 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:57,040 Speaker 1: that perpetuate those racist kind of issues for their own 809 00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:00,000 Speaker 1: political power. And I've said this for a long time. 810 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,000 Speaker 1: These are not people who are going to lynch folks. 811 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,600 Speaker 1: But there were people that Dangsher would put folks in 812 00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,880 Speaker 1: the back of the bus if they thought that that 813 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:10,200 Speaker 1: would help their political career. And that's what we're seeing. 814 00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:12,920 Speaker 1: That is what we're seeing across the board. Something happened 815 00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,560 Speaker 1: in Alabama just recently, and this is I think typical 816 00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:18,560 Speaker 1: of where we are in this I say typical, I 817 00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:20,720 Speaker 1: don't know if it's typical or not, but we recently 818 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:24,480 Speaker 1: had a group of high school students in Tuscaloosa, Alabama 819 00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,960 Speaker 1: that wanted to have a Black History Month program and 820 00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,719 Speaker 1: the school administrators said, fine, you can do that. We're 821 00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:32,880 Speaker 1: happy for you to do that, as long as you 822 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:38,560 Speaker 1: don't discuss anything that happened before nineteen seventy. I wish 823 00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:41,000 Speaker 1: I was kidding about it, but I'm not. So these 824 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:44,520 Speaker 1: students walked out. Nothing happened before nineteen seventies, So that 825 00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,799 Speaker 1: makes sense. No, of course, not everything started when I 826 00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,759 Speaker 1: was sixteen years old in nineteen seven. Those students walked out, 827 00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,719 Speaker 1: they were landed a little bit. But that's the kind 828 00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:56,360 Speaker 1: of thing that we're having face across the country. So 829 00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,480 Speaker 1: I don't think we're in a good place right now, 830 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:00,319 Speaker 1: and I think we've got to work through do that, 831 00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,799 Speaker 1: and we've got to have some very serious conversations and 832 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:09,160 Speaker 1: dialogues about it. Dialogues and not monologues. Yes, for sure, 833 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:13,520 Speaker 1: quite interesting. So let me ask you, now, where do 834 00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:17,399 Speaker 1: you feel, and you have this long time experience with 835 00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,359 Speaker 1: civil rights and a long time experience of the Biden administration, 836 00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:23,919 Speaker 1: what do you think the Biden administration should be doing 837 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,840 Speaker 1: next for voting rights, for civil rights, for the South 838 00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:31,640 Speaker 1: in general. You know, I think the administration has done 839 00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,680 Speaker 1: what they could do in terms of using the presidency 840 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,280 Speaker 1: and the bully pulpit to try to get certain changes 841 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,440 Speaker 1: to the voting rights bill across the finish line. We 842 00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,040 Speaker 1: couldn't do that for a number of reasons in the 843 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,160 Speaker 1: last Congress. I think it will be more difficult in 844 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:51,440 Speaker 1: this Congress. And by the way, I think the Justice Department, 845 00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:54,600 Speaker 1: in the Civil Rights Division and the folks like that 846 00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:58,960 Speaker 1: are also taking very careful looks, you know, where we 847 00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,640 Speaker 1: are with voting rights, and they're taking a very serious 848 00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:04,120 Speaker 1: look at how to protect the rights of people with 849 00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,800 Speaker 1: the laws that we have on the books. I'm hoping 850 00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:09,759 Speaker 1: that going into twenty twenty four, they're also going to 851 00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:13,200 Speaker 1: do an analysis of the Voting Rights Act and determine 852 00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:17,360 Speaker 1: that they can also perhaps use the Voting Rights Act 853 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:22,480 Speaker 1: to potentially investigate and potentially prosecute people who refuse to 854 00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:27,919 Speaker 1: certify duly constituted elections. I think the Voting Rights Act, 855 00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,520 Speaker 1: and we've done some research my law firm on this, 856 00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,399 Speaker 1: I think the Voting Rights Act can be used to 857 00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:36,799 Speaker 1: make sure that free and fair votes are counted and 858 00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:40,160 Speaker 1: that they're certified by the appropriate officials. I talked to 859 00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:44,399 Speaker 1: some folks this weekend down in Selma about that. I think, 860 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:48,040 Speaker 1: given the dynamics that we have in the Congress right now, 861 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,680 Speaker 1: I think that the protection of the vote needs to 862 00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:55,239 Speaker 1: be very strategic. It needs to be more of a 863 00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,640 Speaker 1: rifle shot than a shotgun, and not a wish list. 864 00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:02,400 Speaker 1: It needs to be the things that have I believe, 865 00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:06,359 Speaker 1: and I believed this for some time, the possibility of 866 00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:12,040 Speaker 1: passing right now. For so long, people Republicans especially bought 867 00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:16,880 Speaker 1: at doing anything to establish standards for mail in voting, 868 00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:20,440 Speaker 1: for early voting, that every state should be required to 869 00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,720 Speaker 1: have some form of minimum standards and require the states 870 00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,480 Speaker 1: to do something on early votes and mail in votes. Well, 871 00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,840 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, after the last election, you know, 872 00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,560 Speaker 1: many Republicans were saying, you know, maybe this early voting 873 00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:35,120 Speaker 1: is not so bad because they were losing elections because 874 00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:38,640 Speaker 1: their folks weren't utilizing what they had any states, Well, 875 00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:42,040 Speaker 1: let's take this opportunity to say, great, why don't two 876 00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:45,360 Speaker 1: join us, and let's establish these minimum stand Instead of 877 00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,880 Speaker 1: having a hodgepodge of laws across fifty states, let's require 878 00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,279 Speaker 1: all states to do some form of early voting, some 879 00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:55,000 Speaker 1: form of mail in voting, and have the uniform standards 880 00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,520 Speaker 1: that can be enforced across the states. And as part 881 00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:00,160 Speaker 1: of that, Molly and a lot of people, I know, 882 00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:03,080 Speaker 1: a lot of your listeners probably don't want to hear this, 883 00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:05,120 Speaker 1: but as part of that you're going to probably have 884 00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:09,759 Speaker 1: to also do some form of national voter ID. But 885 00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,319 Speaker 1: the key to that, in my opinion, has always been 886 00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:16,319 Speaker 1: being able to require folks to be able to get 887 00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:20,239 Speaker 1: those voters and the states to provide those voters, not 888 00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:23,600 Speaker 1: just have one van like they've got in Alabama that 889 00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,440 Speaker 1: you can call for and go to, but really make 890 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,680 Speaker 1: it an effort to get voter IDs out there that 891 00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:31,960 Speaker 1: the state will do, and give a broad range of 892 00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:34,719 Speaker 1: ideas that can be done. I think if we can 893 00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,080 Speaker 1: be really strategic, that's what I would like to see 894 00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:40,279 Speaker 1: the administration and my friends in the Senate and the 895 00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:43,480 Speaker 1: House do, And let's get something pass to protect the 896 00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:45,840 Speaker 1: right to vote, because at the end of the day, 897 00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:49,359 Speaker 1: we still there are still states and we still have 898 00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:52,600 Speaker 1: trouble getting people to the vault. Wow, you really think 899 00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:54,600 Speaker 1: a voter idea is the way to go on that? 900 00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:56,719 Speaker 1: I think it has to be in order to get 901 00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:58,880 Speaker 1: something packed. I think you've got to do something to 902 00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:03,560 Speaker 1: get this pass. She gives them Republicans exactly everything about 903 00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:06,960 Speaker 1: our democracy right now is a divided government. A form 904 00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:10,400 Speaker 1: of national voter ID was part of the Freedom to 905 00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,279 Speaker 1: Vote Act, and I know a lot of the civil 906 00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:14,680 Speaker 1: Rights group, and a lot of my friends didn't particularly 907 00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:16,960 Speaker 1: like that. They kind of bit their tongue, but it 908 00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,800 Speaker 1: was there. It was necessary to even have that build 909 00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,120 Speaker 1: to have a chance. I think we're going to have 910 00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,880 Speaker 1: to look at that, and quite frankly, if you couple 911 00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:31,520 Speaker 1: that with resources and requirements that would require the states 912 00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,919 Speaker 1: to be able to get those voter IDs out there 913 00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:38,360 Speaker 1: to people, the biggest issue in my view, Molly, what 914 00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:41,120 Speaker 1: I've seen, the biggest issue is not the idea itself, 915 00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,799 Speaker 1: it's getting the ID. And that's a real problem in Alabama. 916 00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:47,520 Speaker 1: You know, when we have passed that voter ID, the 917 00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,120 Speaker 1: photo ID, thing, first thing that a former governor did 918 00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:52,040 Speaker 1: was shut down some of the DMBs in our black 919 00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,719 Speaker 1: Belt area and they had Justice Department had to come 920 00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:57,520 Speaker 1: in and ensum to get those things open back up 921 00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,439 Speaker 1: its access to the ID. And if we can get 922 00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:04,080 Speaker 1: resources and requirements that were to require the state to 923 00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:07,080 Speaker 1: get those voter IDs out there, then the idea itself 924 00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:10,880 Speaker 1: would be so much less of a problem, right I guess, 925 00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:12,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. I feel like voter ID 926 00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:15,400 Speaker 1: is just a way to make it harder to vote. 927 00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:17,960 Speaker 1: People have said that, and I agree with that, but 928 00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,000 Speaker 1: If you've got access to an ID, it is not 929 00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:23,320 Speaker 1: hard to pull it out at a poll. The problem 930 00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:25,760 Speaker 1: that we've got with voter ID is not the idea 931 00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,640 Speaker 1: itself in my view, except for access to it. Access 932 00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,799 Speaker 1: to photo IDs is a problem, and I agree with that. 933 00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:35,280 Speaker 1: That's why you've got to get folks and resources. In Alabama, 934 00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:39,239 Speaker 1: for instance, now in order to vote absentee, you have 935 00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:43,279 Speaker 1: to make a photo copy of your photo ID to 936 00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:48,080 Speaker 1: mail in with your absentee ballot application. Now, not everybody 937 00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,200 Speaker 1: in Alabama's got a damn printer, okay, and they're not 938 00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,759 Speaker 1: going to go down the street to the local Tinkos 939 00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,799 Speaker 1: or whatever the thing and make a copy of that. 940 00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:02,399 Speaker 1: It's the barriers that keep put up around those photoids 941 00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:05,720 Speaker 1: that are a huge problem, and access barriers of getting 942 00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:09,000 Speaker 1: the photo IDs and the kind of photoids. Now, Alabama 943 00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:13,279 Speaker 1: high school students that are state schools can't use their 944 00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:17,160 Speaker 1: high school issued student ID card for some reason. I 945 00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:20,440 Speaker 1: don't know why. It's a state Id's a state school, 946 00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:23,640 Speaker 1: they can't use that. If we expand what is out 947 00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:26,960 Speaker 1: there and the ability of states and requires states to 948 00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:31,279 Speaker 1: provide those upon requests, then I think that the voter 949 00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:35,239 Speaker 1: ID issue would not be as big a concern as 950 00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:37,839 Speaker 1: it seems to be, and it is a concern, make 951 00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:40,000 Speaker 1: no mistake. I don't want anybody out there to think 952 00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,799 Speaker 1: that I'm not concerned about the voter ID issues. I 953 00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,399 Speaker 1: think there's ways to solve it, and if we can 954 00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:49,120 Speaker 1: work with people, I think we can solve that particular 955 00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:52,000 Speaker 1: issue and give access to more people and get them 956 00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:55,719 Speaker 1: out to the police. Very interesting, Doug Jones. I sort 957 00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,480 Speaker 1: of disagree with you about the voter ID but I 958 00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:02,120 Speaker 1: understand where you're coming from. I also just don't think 959 00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:07,200 Speaker 1: of Republicans as being good faith negotiators. Well, that is 960 00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:10,600 Speaker 1: a problem these days. I think there is some problem 961 00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:12,279 Speaker 1: on both sides of the aisle of that, but I 962 00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:16,520 Speaker 1: particularly when it comes to voting rights. I think that 963 00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:19,440 Speaker 1: is especially true with folks on the other side of 964 00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:22,799 Speaker 1: the aisle. Senator McConnell has made it very clear he 965 00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:25,799 Speaker 1: does not want to see any kind of voting the 966 00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:29,680 Speaker 1: rights legislation or whether it's the John Lewis Voting Rights 967 00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:32,919 Speaker 1: Act or any others, the Freedom to Vote Act, He's 968 00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:35,319 Speaker 1: made that very clear. So there's got to be an 969 00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:37,759 Speaker 1: element of good faith. That doesn't mean we don't try. 970 00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:39,520 Speaker 1: I think we've got to try, and I think we've 971 00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:41,879 Speaker 1: got to continue to talk about it and how people 972 00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,320 Speaker 1: like you and I talk about it. I just am curious, 973 00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:46,520 Speaker 1: like there's a lot of stuff that Biden could just 974 00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:50,040 Speaker 1: do unilaterally. Do you think he should do more of that, 975 00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:53,279 Speaker 1: like through executive order? And I'm not sure what he 976 00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:56,600 Speaker 1: can do unilaterally about voting right now. I mean, we've 977 00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:58,840 Speaker 1: got the Voting Rights Act, and I think the Justice 978 00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:02,240 Speaker 1: Department is there, but they're in lawsuits all over the place. 979 00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,400 Speaker 1: They've got the Alabama Voting Rights Act case that's pending 980 00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,520 Speaker 1: right now that I'm very worried about because we've got 981 00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:13,560 Speaker 1: a Supreme Court that does not seem the Voting Rights Act. 982 00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:17,360 Speaker 1: So I think that the president's hands are somewhat tied 983 00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:22,560 Speaker 1: when it comes to voting since historically the federal government 984 00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:26,600 Speaker 1: has conceeded most of that authority to the states, and 985 00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:29,160 Speaker 1: it is only through the Voting Rights Act. And there 986 00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:32,040 Speaker 1: may be some mothers I'm not a complete legal scholar 987 00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:35,399 Speaker 1: even normal lawyer, that there may be some potential things 988 00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:38,319 Speaker 1: that they can do, but I think it's limited as 989 00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:41,279 Speaker 1: to what the president can do himself. And that's why 990 00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:43,560 Speaker 1: he has done as much as he could do at 991 00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:46,440 Speaker 1: every opportunity to use the bully pulpit of the presidency 992 00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:50,080 Speaker 1: and get people engaged because this is a state issue. Unfortunately, 993 00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:51,799 Speaker 1: I think it needs to be a little bit more 994 00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:55,000 Speaker 1: of a federal issue because we've got federal elections every 995 00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:57,880 Speaker 1: two years. And by the way, you know, there's a 996 00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:01,640 Speaker 1: lot of misinformation out there that he would think listening 997 00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:04,400 Speaker 1: to people that the Constitution gives the states the sole 998 00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:09,040 Speaker 1: right to manage elections. That's not the case. It does 999 00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:11,120 Speaker 1: give states the right to do that, but then there's 1000 00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:14,279 Speaker 1: a qualifier to it that says that the Congress of 1001 00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:18,319 Speaker 1: the United States can step in and modify those and 1002 00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:20,960 Speaker 1: take some control. That's what the Voting Rights Act of 1003 00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:25,200 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty five did. Dub Jones, thank you so much, senitor. 1004 00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:27,680 Speaker 1: I hope you'll join us again. Would love to do 1005 00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:29,640 Speaker 1: it sometimes. Molly, thanks so much for having me. It's 1006 00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:39,440 Speaker 1: great to talk to you, Molly. Junk Fast, Jesse Cannon, Oh, 1007 00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:42,520 Speaker 1: anytime you have to see Matt taiebe in a public 1008 00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:46,480 Speaker 1: forum these days, it's just so depressing. It goes so bad. 1009 00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,440 Speaker 1: I think that Elon should have to buy him a 1010 00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:56,160 Speaker 1: horse after that performance. I'm just telling you, like, I 1011 00:54:56,280 --> 00:55:01,240 Speaker 1: understand that to hebe thought, this is gonna do something 1012 00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:04,400 Speaker 1: for him, But it's really embarrassing. It would take a 1013 00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,319 Speaker 1: lot to get me up in one of those hearings 1014 00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:10,600 Speaker 1: for a political party, but it would take a really 1015 00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:13,280 Speaker 1: a lot to get me about those hearings for someone 1016 00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:18,160 Speaker 1: as dumb as jacket list Jim Jordan. Magic. With the 1017 00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:21,839 Speaker 1: way Jim Jordan's been leading these things going, I think 1018 00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:23,520 Speaker 1: it's a good idea for me to show up, stay 1019 00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:26,440 Speaker 1: and not fake scurvy or something. Well, you know, these 1020 00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:29,960 Speaker 1: are all optional. I mean, these aren't even subpoena. I mean, 1021 00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:33,160 Speaker 1: these are like, you know, you have the honor of testifying. 1022 00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:35,360 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what to say about Matt Tihebi. 1023 00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:38,840 Speaker 1: He's clearly I don't know. You know, it's really depressing 1024 00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:43,440 Speaker 1: to see someone like this, who has done some good work, 1025 00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:48,560 Speaker 1: amazing journalism for decades before this right turn into a 1026 00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:52,600 Speaker 1: complete whatever that is, but a sycophat to a billionaire's bidding. 1027 00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:56,520 Speaker 1: He is our moment of fuckery today, and I think 1028 00:55:56,560 --> 00:56:00,400 Speaker 1: it's pretty well deserved. That's it for this episode of 1029 00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:04,160 Speaker 1: Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to 1030 00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:07,040 Speaker 1: your the best minds in politics makes sense of all 1031 00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:10,680 Speaker 1: this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, please send 1032 00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:13,800 Speaker 1: it to a friend and keep the conversation going. And again, 1033 00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:15,000 Speaker 1: thanks for listening.