WEBVTT - How Bail Works 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.040 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:07.480 It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:16.360 from house Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:20.680 the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Hello, 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:25.400 and this is stuff you should know? Yes right, indeed, So, Chuck, 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:30.520 how are you doing? I'm good and well yourself. That's enough, pansy, Chuck. 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:33.360 You know they've been arrested a couple of times. I 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:35.400 do know that, and I have not, as you know, 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:38.080 and you're very fortunate. It's not a pleasant experience. I'm 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:42.280 sure you get booked, yes, right, the fingerprint you sure? 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:44.519 They make fun of how fat you look. They take 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:46.520 all the things out of your pockets. Yea, and keep 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:49.959 them not whatever. Know, they give them back. They carefully 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:53.080 catalog everything except any hundred dollar bills you have on you. 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:55.320 Do you have a mug shot? I do? And actually 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:58.040 when they took my mug shot, I was smiling and 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:00.000 they thought it was funny, so they blew it out 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:05.319 full size and hung it on the processing center wall. Really, yeah, 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:06.840 now do you actually have that? They don't give you 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:09.000 a copy, that dud I do really. Yeah, I asked 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:11.160 for a copy. You should have to find it somewhere. Yeah, 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:13.800 should see if you're famous enough to get on the 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:16.119 Smoking Gun Yeah, the smoking guy. Yeah, I'm not. You're 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:19.679 not people like who. Yeah, there there is a munk 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:21.920 shot out there. So if anything ever happens to us, 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:25.800 then it'll it'll surface, I'm sure. Yeah. Um, but I'm 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:28.840 here to tell you that you can get out of 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:33.080 jail if your bail is set like five thousand dollars 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:36.600 and all you have is five hundred. Not a bad deal, No, 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:38.679 especially if you have a friend who's willing to come 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:41.319 lend you five dollars to get out. Yeah. Sure, But 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:43.200 how would you do that, Chuck? How what kind of 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:45.920 sense does that make? If you're If you're bail, the 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:49.400 amount that's required to release you from jail until your 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:52.880 court aid uh is five thousand dollars. How can you 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:55.600 get out for five? Well? I would I would think 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:59.800 that that's some sort of security type of deposit kind 0:01:59.840 --> 0:02:03.320 of yeah, or the pecurity deposit. Yeah. Maybe are we 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:06.600 talking about bail? We're talking about bond buddy, Okay, Yeah, 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:10.720 I just wanted to officially introduce the Bail Show we're 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:13.600 doing a two parter here, right, Yes, this was brought 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:16.960 to our attention by listener Steve who saw a little 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:20.080 MPR thing on bail, and Josh happened to hear the 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:22.919 same one, right yeah, and found it very interesting. Right. Yeah. 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:25.760 It was a three part um. It was a three 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:31.079 part series on MPR from Laura Sullivan who really got 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:33.960 to the heart of the matter and kind of exposed 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:36.919 a pretty serious racket that's going on here in the 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:39.960 United States that unfairly burdened the poor. Well, we'll get 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:42.040 to that, but we want to cover bail first, and 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:44.840 then part two of the series will be Bounty Hunters. 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:48.600 So when we don't talk about that dog jerk in 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:51.919 this podcast, don't send us an email. Wait two days 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:55.799 and you'll hear all about them. Yeah. Okay, So, like 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:59.600 I said, Chuck, bail is basically um money that you 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:02.760 ex change to the court in return for your freedom 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:06.680 after you're arrested. Right, Yeah, how this all start? Well, frankly, 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:09.240 it started a long time ago, Chuck. It started in 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:12.960 the thirteenth century. Um, I believe the UK. I'd say, 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:15.520 we weren't around back then, No, we weren't. But it 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:19.040 started in the uk Um in the thirteenth century, where 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:23.959 so a surety, A surety is somebody who assures your bond, 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:28.280 your bail, right, um was actually a person rather than money. 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:30.600 Well it used to be a person, is that what 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:33.079 you're saying? Yeah, And they would actually hang in your 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:37.000 place if you skip bail. Yeah, So I mean somebody 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:39.560 really had to love you to stand in as your 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:42.040 your surety, your your bail. I bet that didn't happen 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:45.280 a lot back then. I wouldn't guess. Yeah, I mean 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:48.880 maybe if the person who was arrested was like a 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:53.720 quadruple amputee, then I'm sure you can find somebody who's 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:55.800 a surety. But other than that, I don't know. I 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:57.800 don't know that I would have put myself up right. 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:01.120 And so then habeas corpus comes along, yeah, in the 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:06.480 seventeenth century, right, and that basically established terms for bail, 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:09.120 and then the Bill of Rights in England there shortly 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:12.520 thereafter UH talked about excessive bail and kind of set 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:14.440 some more parameters on what you could do. Right, Yeah, 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:17.400 Habeas corpus remember we did that podcast on that. Indeed 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:20.360 kind of huge, but yeah, that created the idea of 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:23.320 bail for money or money as bail. And then in 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:27.240 the United States we adopted a lot of the the 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:30.279 the English common law that had to do with bail 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:33.160 and jailing and all that, uh, and we came up 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.839 with the Judiciary Act of what sev. Nine. Yes, And 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:39.360 what I found most interesting is that that sucker state 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:43.000 in effect and fairly unchanged in nineteen sixty six. Yeah, 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:44.960 it's a long time, it is, but I mean it's 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:48.279 it's pretty basic stuff. It's if you are arrested, uh, 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:51.239 and you're not a threat to the community, you should 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:54.960 be able to post bail because you know, people like 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:57.560 their money and you want your money back. That's the 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:00.000 whole point of the thing. If you you're saying, here, 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:02.880 five thousand dollars, I'll be back from my court date, 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:05.360 because you are going to give me that five thousand 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:09.440 dollars back, right right. Um. So, yeah, it did remain 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:13.119 unchanged until nineteen sixty six, although it was put into 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:16.720 the eighth Amendment that people would be granted bail and 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:19.000 that bail would not be excessive. And that's the same 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:22.480 one that contains the cute little provision about um no 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:26.599 cruel or unusual punishment. So sixty six, it changed some 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:29.440 and then it changed again, and what we ended up 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:33.720 with was, uh, some loopholes were closed that allowed dangerous 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:37.560 people to go free. More limits were imposed on judges, 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:42.400 and they basically made it to wear a non violent 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:45.160 criminals were the ones most apt to get bail, and 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:47.920 if you were a violent criminal, your bail was probably 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:52.280 pretty large or denied. Right. And originally, if you were 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:55.360 accused of a capital crime where you could get the 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:58.040 death penalty, you couldn't have bail. And I'm pretty sure 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:01.200 that still remains in effect. But yeah, and uh, there's 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:05.080 a lot of places, especially huge metropolitan areas like say 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:09.680 Los Angeles, UM, that have bail schedules. There's just so 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:11.680 many people coming in and out of the doors that 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:14.720 they're like, oh, perjury, well then that's a five thousand 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:17.280 dollar bail. They just literally look it up on their chart, 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:20.280 follow their little finger across right until they get to 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:23.640 kidnapped with intent to rape? And and what was that one? 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:27.880 Actually one million dollars? Sure, and it should be pretty high, 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:31.200 I would think so, right, So, Chuck, let's say someone 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:34.240 is caught kidnapping and they have some sort of malicious 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:36.560 intent associated with it, and their bail set at a 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:40.840 million dollars. They have a million dollars? Uh, say they 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:44.120 have an AMEX black card, right, all right, good for them. 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:46.640 They can slap that puppy down and pay what's called 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:49.640 the cash bail. Yes, many places, but that they would 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:52.880 rack up on sky miles a bad criminal who gets 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:56.120 caught a lot with the But they do some places 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:58.760 to accept check, some credit cards or just good old 0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:01.880 fashioned green backs. Right. But let's say that you have 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:04.080 a million dollars or you don't. Your your bail is 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:06.240 a million dollars, but you can only come up with 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:08.680 a hundred grand in cash? Right, Yes, who are you 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:14.080 gonna call? Not ghostbusters, a bail bondsman, Josh, or a bailor? Right, 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:17.360 it's another name. Yeah, you remember in Athens they were 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:20.160 like T shirts, bail bond t shirts, and they give 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:22.400 you like a teen percent discount if you wear it. 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:25.240 I can't remember. I mean that lay were literally it 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:27.440 was an institution Athens. I can't. I can't remember that. 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:29.800 I don't either. They have match books in all the bars. Yeah, 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:32.360 they were very famous. Actually, did you ever have one 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:33.560 of those? Did they help you out? Or was that 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:36.400 in Athens? It wasn't an athen that I was arrested. 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:39.120 No more questions, Okay, I'll let you off on this one. 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:43.000 So Chuck, what what when you call bail bondsman? What 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:44.960 you're what? They're gonna put up as a surety bond? 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:49.080 Remember we talked about. A surety is somebody who um 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:52.520 says I will cover this person's bail. Yeah, And that's 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:55.120 basically the bail bondsman. And they are backed by an 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:58.760 insurance company, a very special insurance company. Obviously they don't 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:03.000 have just a regular farm policy. And they are now 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:06.400 on the hook for you appearing in court and they 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:09.080 have to pay that uh you know, huge sum of 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:11.640 money if you don't show, right, So they'll take a 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:14.320 teen percent premium. Sure, well yeah, that's why they do it. 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:16.920 And that's on top of everything else, right, Yeah, And 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:19.640 then they'll put up the money or they'll say, actually 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:21.680 they don't put up the money. They say, I will 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:23.360 put up the money out like you said, I'm on 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:26.720 the hook now, um. But they'll also take some collateral, 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:30.360 maybe like a title to your parents house or the 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.439 title of your car, some jewelry or whatever. They will 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:35.880 also Josh, get friends and family involved to help chip 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:38.040 in and uh so that way, if they're kind of 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:40.040 on the line, they think the person will show up 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:43.320 for court. Right, Yeah, you're you're kind of indebted to 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:45.800 your parents for bailing you out and putting their house up, 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:47.920 and you don't want your poor parents to lose their house, 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:51.880 right exactly. Um, you can also do We'll get some 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:55.160 more on that, right yeah, yeah, okay. You can also 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:58.400 do released on on citation, where the cop just basically 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:01.080 it's like the same trap ticket is a released on 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:03.880 citation bail. That's my favorite kind of bail, is it? 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:06.720 My favorite is the kind where they're like, you know what, 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:09.160 I'm not even going to give you this ticket. Go ahead, 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:12.240 just be careful. Yeah exactly, Yeah, that's my favorite. There's 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:16.640 released on recognisance. Yeah, that's when you actually are booked 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:20.240 and arrested, but uh crime is probably not so severe 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:22.760 and definitely not violent, and they'll say, we trust it, 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:24.800 you'll show up, You're not a flight risk, don't worry 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:27.440 about paying anything. And then, uh, we we talked about 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:30.679 how your parents can give their house title is collateral 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:34.719 to a bounty hunter. You can actually do that in sorry, yes, 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:37.720 you can do that in some states with the the 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:42.720 jail directly through a property bond on the spot. Yeah, 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:45.480 the court places a lean in the amount of the 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:49.760 bail against your say your house or your land or whatever. Um. 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:52.840 And if you skip, then they can foreclothes on it 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:56.240 and actually sell it to get their money back. Yeah. 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:58.480 So well they use if you have, like you said, 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:02.160 the five dollars, if your bail was fifty thou, would 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:04.400 you give that five hundred to the bail bondsman? Is 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:06.320 that how that works? Yeah? What they do is, let's 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:10.400 say you're usually they charge ten percent premium, right, so 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:13.720 that's just their feet, right, that's just their feet because 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:17.400 it's a ten percent, it's ten percent usually of the bail. 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:21.240 People assume that, Um, what you're doing is you've just 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:24.520 carved out ten percent and then you know they you 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:27.559 don't owe them anymore. Not true. No, this is tim 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:30.120 percent on top of the bail. So if it's fifty 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:33.040 thou dollars, the ten percent will be five thousand dollars. 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:35.280 And that's just the money they took for saying i'll 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:39.959 i'll cover you. Yeah. It's basically loan interest exactly, very 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:43.520 quick and urgent loan. Yeah. And and that is it's 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:48.720 very it's it's alone. They're loaning you your freedom. Basically, um, chuck. 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:52.560 Dealing with bail bondsman is um the most common way 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:55.439 to get out of jail. Yeah. Uh, you know, people 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:57.240 can't come up with five grand bail, but they can 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:00.559 usually come up with five premium. Sure, that's the the 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:02.960 whole deal. And we'll get into that later about the poor, 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:06.720 but not very many people can afford their bail. Even 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:09.160 if they're rich fat cats. They will often set the bail. 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:11.679 I just saw the record was last October. Did you 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:15.600 see that. The guy's name, he was the head of 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:19.200 the Galleon Group and they were apparently did some insider 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:23.160 trading RAJ Roger ATNHAM and he set the record in 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:27.640 October one million dollar bail. Bernie Madels is only ten million, 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:30.520 if that tells me. So he had twenty mill to 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:35.520 put down as his I guess deposit and the judge 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:37.760 said all right, you can hang out, and the bill 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:42.120 bondsman was like, yes, score, because that's twenty that's pure 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:45.000 profit to pure profit. Um. And when you're dealing with 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:46.960 the bail bondsman, there's some things you want to look for. 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:50.079 I mean, their their business people. Um, they deal with 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:53.640 some of the seedier quarters of society, right, Yeah, but 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:56.240 it's a real business and the documents are very real 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:59.000 as well, and you want to very you at the 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:02.040 very least, you want to be aware of what you're 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:05.040 signing in most cases, and you definitely want to read 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:08.480 it as well. You can't. No, you're kind of stuck 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:10.000 between a rock and a hard place. But you have 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:11.840 to be aware of what you're signing when you sign 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:16.319 the Bill Bond contract because it is an extremely powerful 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:21.080 and pretty much airtight contract. We'll get to exactly all 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:24.920 it entails and in the Bounty Hunter episode. But just 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:28.720 this isn't like, hey, I'll come back for court. That's 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:30.760 not all that that thing says. Now you're signing a 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:33.160 way certain rights and that big one that's the teaser 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:36.920 for Thursday show. Yeah, so um, Chuck. You also want 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:39.840 to make sure that a Bill bondsman that you're dealing with, 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:45.320 um will be responsive to questions from your family, is 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:48.720 easily contact as a cell phone, that kind of thing. 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:50.720 And if you get the impression that your Bill bondsman 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:54.000 is not going to um be there for you, then 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:56.439 you you want to move along and find another one 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:59.480 that you feel more comfortable with in every town is 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:02.960 a lotusy with bail bondsman because every town is allows 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:06.080 well not every town, but many towns are allowsy with crime. Sure, 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:08.199 and then one leads to the other. So Josh. The 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:09.720 other thing you should do if you go to hire 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:14.280 bail bondsman is uh like, if you're hiring any personal contractor, 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:17.440 look at their I d get their make sure they're 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:19.920 registered or license that they have to be. I think 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:21.520 you have to be licensed in every state now, right 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:24.760 if it's legal. Yeah, there are states where it's not legal. 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:27.000 We'll get to that in a second. Okay, So check 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:31.680 out their credits. UM, ask for detailed explanations of UM 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:34.240 any kind of fees in addition to the ten percent. 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:36.160 You don't want to get a bill at the end 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:38.200 that says, well you had to pay for this, this 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:40.040 and this as well, right, So just make sure it's 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:41.560 on the level. And like you said, make sure that 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:46.120 they communicate with you regularly. UM. And if you if 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:50.040 you aren't comfortable with who you're who you're talking to, 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:55.280 ye again, just move along unless there's a you're in 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:57.439 a state one of four states in the Union that 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:01.920 just do not allow commerce for bail bond market whatsoever. 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:06.120 And where's that there? Uh, Wisconsin, Oregon, Illinois, and Kentucky 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:09.920 all have laws on the books that outlaw commercial bail bonding. Um, 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:13.640 Wisconsin doesn't in a roundabout way, which says that no surety, 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:16.720 remember the person that gets you out, uh can be 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:19.800 compensated for being a surety. And well that's how they 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:23.320 make their money in the bail bond market. So there's that. UM. 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:29.480 And then say, like Kentucky expressly outlaws of bail bond industry. Yeah, 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:32.760 so in those states you have to put up your 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:35.720 own money or a property bond or something like that, 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:38.240 or I imagine they probably have higher rates of being 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:41.040 released on your own recognizance. Yeah, maybe maybe not, or 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:43.440 maybe you're just s o L. If you're in Kentucky. 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:47.920 Well if you're UM, poor, chuck your s O L. 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:52.240 In the United States, we were talking about the MPR 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:55.400 report by Laura Sullivan. Yeah, I gotta say, I think 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:59.680 everybody should go read this. It really it really exposed 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:03.960 a round packet in the US between UM, the criminal 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:08.800 court system and Bill Bondsman. Yeah, they used UM. Broward County, 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:11.440 Florida is a really great example because they had a 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:14.440 situation down there where they were kind of a situation 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:17.520 that's all over the country. Jails are full, uh, tax 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:20.240 stay dollars are like people are paying tons of money 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:23.240 to keep these people. Nine billion a year in the US. 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:25.320 A hundred and fifteen dollars a day is what it 0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:27.680 cost to jail someone, at least in Broward County. Yeah, 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:31.200 per inmate. That's like a you know, not the worst 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:35.000 hotel in the world. Now. And there are alternatives, specifically 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:39.000 pre trial programs, yes, and that is when they release 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:44.480 people with UM sometimes as GPS or ankle monitoring systems. Uh. 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:47.200 Sometimes you just have to call in or text when 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:50.120 their home and stay within a certain radius of their home. 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:53.760 And it was a huge, huge success, right, and then 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:56.400 it dried up. All funding for it dried up except 0:15:56.440 --> 0:16:01.000 for just the tiniest amount. Why because as of bribes, 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:04.520 well not bribes, we should c o a here, because 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:09.480 bail bondsman rallied together and UM hired a lobbyists and 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:13.480 they wrote a bunch of checks to the Bard County commissioners. Yeah, 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:16.400 the commissioners and the mayor as well, right, and actually 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:20.160 chuck the uh, the mayor of the Commissioners, the head 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:23.360 of the Board of Commissioners UH. Four days before this 0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:29.120 vote on pre trial funding, UM got fifteen checks totaling 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:35.200 five grand from local bail bondsman for his campaign. Yeah, 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:37.760 and pre trial it was it was it cost about 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:39.640 two dollars a day, where you said that keeping someone 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:41.600 in jail cost a hundred and fifteen a day. Yeah, 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:43.960 they were able to shut down a twenty million dollar 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:48.040 wing of their jail. It was that popular and successful 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:51.000 the program. But the problem is because it was popular 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:54.240 and successful, there were people who normally would have gone 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:57.160 to a bail bondsman UH to get out of jail, 0:16:57.440 --> 0:16:59.840 who were just getting out through the pre trial pre 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:02.160 trial programs. So, like you said, they got a lobbyist 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:05.439 who's actually also a lobbyist for the boarder commissioners and 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:08.600 got the whole thing shut down basically like a few 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:12.280 people who are still in the program. UM. But it's 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:14.359 not nearly what it used to be, even though it 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:17.920 was a success. So there's one way that bail bondsman 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:21.320 I mean manipulating the system. UM. And another part of 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:25.480 that MPR report, people in Lubbock, Texas were profiled and 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:31.320 these people like they're they're bail. Their bond would have 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:34.360 been like seventy five bucks because they had like seven 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:37.800 fifty dollar bail. But these are very, very poor people 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:40.920 that can't come up with seventy five bucks. They don't 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:43.280 have anybody to borrow it from, so they're rotting in 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:46.879 jail for months. One guy stole forty dollars worth of 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:50.720 blankets because he was cold in the station wagon one night. Um, 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:53.080 and he's been in jail for four months to thousands 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:55.679 and thousands of dollars, thousands of dollars. And the reason 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:58.879 is is these bills bail bondsmen are saying, this is 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:02.639 a cutthroat industry and we can't afford to let anybody 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:06.280 who would potentially be a customer slip through. So that 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:08.320 means that people who can't afford to be a customer 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:10.480 don't have the option of pre trial because it was 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:15.280 shut down. Um, so they get to stay in jail 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:21.679 at the taxpayer expense, to benefit only the bail bond industry. 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:25.040 And you know, I'm all for capitalism and someone earning 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:27.639 a buck, I'm not anti bail bondsman, not at the 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:30.480 expense of someone's freedom. Well, and the fact that it's 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:33.000 if you're talking about the bail bondsman, maybe a few 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:36.320 of them shutting down or costing the taxpayers billions of dollars. 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:38.960 It's just there's it's a no brainer. No, it isn't. 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:44.000 But again, powerful lobby as as uh Laura Anderson points 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:49.360 out the you know, most indigent inmates don't have a lobby. Well, yeah, 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:51.600 and I think she said fifty of people in jail 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:53.880 are the only reason they're in jails because they can't 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:56.720 afford bail. Yeah, that's at least in Brower County. So 0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:59.600 billions of dollars in taxpayer money, months and months of 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:04.879 freedom for inmates, um or incarceration for inmates, and the 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:09.840 bail bond industry is thriving. Right, there is another way 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:13.160 that they are thriving. Actually, chuck um, they don't pay 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:18.080 up when people run. Wh Yeah, what do you mean? 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:20.919 So as part of a kind of a punishment in 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:24.520 most states, if you're a bail bondsman and you're somebody 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:29.800 skips um, you're supposed to automatically pay that, say, five 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:36.000 thousand dollars. They don't intesta no, so they keep the 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:40.760 premium a ten percent premium, and then sometimes they well, 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:45.560 in most cases they negotiate um with the county. Yeah, 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:48.400 about five percent of the actual bail is what they 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:50.639 end up paying. So that means that they got a 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:53.879 ten percent premium. All right, they made five percent of 0:19:53.920 --> 0:19:57.520 that for doing nothing. That's it. They don't have to 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:00.280 pay out any money. They're insured anyway, though, So even 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:01.840 when they do have to pay out, they're not really 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:05.320 paying out right. I'm sure they're insurance premiums are sky high, 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:07.840 but I'm sure we're gonna hear from a bail bondsman. 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:10.840 I would like to actually, well, Chuck, let's let's go 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:13.960 on to the next episode two days from now. Well, 0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:17.120 I have a quick question because my favorite all time 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:22.080 movie comedy is Midnight Run Really oh yeah, Robert de 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:24.879 Niro and Charles Gardens and is probably the best bounty 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:27.720 hunter movie ever made. In that movie, the bounty hunter 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:31.200 Joey Pants hired I'm sorry, the bail bondsman hired two 0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:34.480 bounty hunters to cover the same case. And that's where 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:37.080 a lot of the comedy comes from. The great John 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:42.560 Ashton opposite de Niro. Is that true? Can that happen? Uh? 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:46.320 It depends? Yeah, really, sure you can have freelance bounty 0:20:46.400 --> 0:20:49.600 hunters running your cases. Well, I thought it said in 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:52.400 the article that they try to keep ethical boundaries set 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:54.840 because it's no good. All right, but you can, okay, 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:57.159 depending cost a lot of problems in the movie. Have 0:20:57.280 --> 0:20:59.959 you ever seen Dead Man? Oh? Yeah, caused a lot 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:02.520 of problems in that movie too. Yeah, a good point. Yeah, 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:06.359 specifically one smushed head. Yes, God, I love that movie. 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:09.359 Do you know? It took me probably five or six 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:11.480 times of seeing it before I realized it's actually a 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:15.240 dark comedy. Uh, there's some funny parts, for sure. No, 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:17.399 watch it like that. Like the whole thing is a 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:20.840 dark comedy from beginning to end. It's a great soundtrack too, 0:21:20.840 --> 0:21:22.960 by the way. Yeah, I have that the great Neil Young. 0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:24.760 I'm not a big Neil Young fan, but I even 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:27.560 like that so well because he didn't sing. So here 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:30.800 we go. Yeah, okay, well Chuck, that's it for bail 0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:33.160 right now? All right? Yeah, I'm it'll come up here 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:35.720