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Speaker 1: As a CEO in fashion authority, I know it's the

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Speaker 1: details that truly matter, and when it comes to luxury,

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Speaker 1: every stitch must be perfectly tailored. At Genesis, they've delivered

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Speaker 1: on every element of the GV eighty two line. Led

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Speaker 1: headlamps accentuate an exterior that exudes athletic elegance. Inside, discover

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Speaker 1: an expansive cabin with ambient lighting. Take a close look

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Speaker 1: at the Genesis GV eighty and you'll see lux is

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Speaker 1: in the details. Hi everyone, I'm Rachel Zoe and you're

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Speaker 1: listening to Climbing in Heels. This show is all about

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Speaker 1: celebrating the most extraordinary superwoman who will be sharing their

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Speaker 1: incredible journeys to the top, all while staying clamorous. Today

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Speaker 1: with me, I'm joined by someone we've seen on our

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Speaker 1: TV screens for years. You may know her as your

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Speaker 1: favorite entertainment reporter, best known for her work on E

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Speaker 1: News and Daily Pop, The Wonderful Cat Sadler. Today she's

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Speaker 1: the host of her own podcast, Cat Sadler. Now Together,

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Speaker 1: Cat and I talk about starting from the bottom, paving

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Speaker 1: your paths for yourself and how many versions of yourself

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Speaker 1: you've been through while growing up Kat's also sharing her

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Speaker 1: story about how she bet on herself and left E

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Speaker 1: after speaking up for equal pay in the workplace. Kat

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Speaker 1: is so impressive. She's such a sweetheart. She's done a

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Speaker 1: lot the old fashioned way, just working really, really, really hard.

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Speaker 1: And I love this episode and I hope you do too,

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Speaker 1: So let's get into it. I wanted to talk to

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Speaker 1: you because I love you and I adore you, and

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Speaker 1: we've had an amazing conversation a few of them, but

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Speaker 1: today I really want to talk about you because I'm

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Speaker 1: very sick of talking about me so well.

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Speaker 2: I was saying even before that, I mean, I love

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Speaker 2: that you're already you are such an example of walking

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Speaker 2: the walk because of talking about women that maybe aren't

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Speaker 2: as supportive in this industry or in life in general.

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Speaker 2: I was literally just telling my partner Greg, I was like,

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Speaker 2: Rachel is such an example of women supporting women, because

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Speaker 2: you know, I don't I don't do I don't produce

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Speaker 2: as much, you know, in the fashion game certainly as

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Speaker 2: you do. But like I had my little necklace collaboration

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Speaker 2: or something a couple of seasons ago, and you were

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Speaker 2: so kind to like post about it, and you're just

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Speaker 2: organically intrinsically.

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Speaker 3: Like being that female is you, So that is rare.

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Speaker 2: But for people listening, like you didn't gain anything from that,

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Speaker 2: you didn't need anything from me. I wasn't gonna do

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Speaker 2: anything for you. But you're just you are that human.

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Speaker 2: So thank you for being an example of that.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. I think we've all had experience with people

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Speaker 1: that don't want us to win, and so for me,

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Speaker 1: there's nothing I love more than watching great people that

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Speaker 1: work their fucking asses off win. That is to me,

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Speaker 1: like that makes me so happy because I feel like

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Speaker 1: people want to cheat. They think this ride can be

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Speaker 1: easier if they do it this way. They think if

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Speaker 1: they know this person, they think if they network with

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Speaker 1: that person, and sure that can like help with certain situations. Sure,

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Speaker 1: but ultimately you've got to do the work, you know.

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Speaker 1: And I think for me, just watching people that deserve

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Speaker 1: to win win is always like the greatest. I love it.

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Speaker 1: I'm like the cheerleader that was never a cheerleader. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: see my gold, my gold, let me pom poms that

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Speaker 1: I don't have, But like.

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Speaker 2: When you do the work, I feel like you there's

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Speaker 2: you know, I think we're all can have imposter syndrome

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Speaker 2: on occasion in different arenas or whatever, especially if we're

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Speaker 2: trying new things. But like, it is a good feeling

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Speaker 2: when you have worked your ass off and you've done it.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's also reflection of how old I am.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I've been at it a long time, and

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Speaker 2: I started from the bottom, bottom bottom, and I didn't

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Speaker 2: have those connections you're talking about, and I didn't know

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Speaker 2: people in the industry, and so I guess I am

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Speaker 2: certainly that story of somebody who started the bottom.

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Speaker 3: Now we hear kind of thing. I still got a

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Speaker 3: long way to go, but you know, but.

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Speaker 2: I did do the reps and I to do the

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Speaker 2: hard grind for a very very long time, long before

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Speaker 2: I saw any real rewards from that.

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Speaker 1: So well, I want to talk about that. So I'd

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Speaker 1: like to go back for like a second. So you

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Speaker 1: were born where like born raised whear.

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Speaker 3: So I'm an Indiana girl from the Midwest.

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Speaker 1: And John Mellencamp, Yes, exactly.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, yes, John Mellencamp.

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Speaker 2: He was literally, you know, our only celebrity growing up,

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Speaker 2: and I imagine in our vicinity, you know, he was

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Speaker 2: like twenty minutes down the road. Regel in a little

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Speaker 2: town called Seymour, Indiana. And I'm from a town called Martinsville, Indiana.

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Speaker 2: And so yes, we all grew up idolizing John Mellencamp, Jack.

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Speaker 3: And diadamist Okay on repeat. That was my high school anthem.

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Speaker 2: But I grew up, you know, I wasn't the city

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Speaker 2: of Indianapolis for part of that childhood, but mostly city

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Speaker 2: of Indianapolis, small town of Martinsville, Indiana, about forty thousand people.

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Speaker 2: And you know, of course this was a time long

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Speaker 2: before we had our phone. So it was like the

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Speaker 2: world just seems so so so much bigger than so

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Speaker 2: even having the permission to dream a dream felt so

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Speaker 2: almost foreign because I didn't even realize the possibilities of

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Speaker 2: even leaving where I was from until I was probably

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Speaker 2: about literally twenty one or twenty two before I was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I went out, and what do I want to do

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Speaker 2: with my life?

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Speaker 1: So did you go to college there as well? Or

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Speaker 1: did you not go to I.

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Speaker 2: Did, so I went to Indiana University. I'm a Hoosier

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Speaker 2: and I did study journalism. At the end of my

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Speaker 2: college career, I finally locked down journalism, broadcast journalism, specifically

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Speaker 2: little sidebar my son just started there as a freshman.

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Speaker 1: No way.

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Speaker 3: Yes, he got.

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Speaker 1: Back like he was like, I'm going to Indiana?

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Speaker 3: Were you I would?

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Speaker 1: That's what he was.

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Speaker 2: He's you know, raised boy, surfer guy, and he and

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Speaker 2: we thought, oh, he won't want to go there, nor

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Speaker 2: you know, will we like push his data also went there.

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Speaker 2: We're like, we won't be pushing that on him for life. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: he needs to carve his own path, and he ends

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Speaker 2: up going there. So it's kind of funny because I

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Speaker 2: go back now, I'm going home a lot because my

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Speaker 2: son's there. But yeah, I studied broadcast journalism.

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Speaker 1: So you knew, so you knew? So was that like? Okay,

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Speaker 1: so were you a student or not so much?

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Speaker 3: Not so much.

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Speaker 1: Don't worry. Ninety percent of the women that we're on

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Speaker 1: here that have been on here, we're not students, So like,

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Speaker 1: don't I know a judge, and nor does anyone listening.

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Speaker 1: And I the reason I ask about education is because

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Speaker 1: I really believe that that is no indication at all

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Speaker 1: of your It may it may help your path in

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Speaker 1: the beginning one way or another, but I think it

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Speaker 1: in no way defines who you are. And I think

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Speaker 1: you know, I've had women on here that didn't even

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Speaker 1: graduate high school, so I think, you know, I'm always

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Speaker 1: just a bit curious, you know.

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Speaker 3: Yes I say this. I was like, you know, no,

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Speaker 3: I was.

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Speaker 2: I was a student of life. I mean, I can't

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Speaker 2: say that enough, like, especially in those years. I was

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Speaker 2: just talking about this on my podcast. I was like,

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Speaker 2: because I'm having all of these feelings now that my

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Speaker 2: son's in college, and I'm like, it's taking me back

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Speaker 2: to like being that impressionable, young young age being. You know,

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Speaker 2: how many versions of ourselves have we had since we

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Speaker 2: were nineteen, right, So I was like, who was I then?

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Speaker 3: What was I thinking?

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Speaker 2: And that's the biggest standout takeaway for me from college was,

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Speaker 2: you know, I had been isolated in this little bitty

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Speaker 2: bubble of a small town where everybody looked the same,

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Speaker 2: everybody believed the same. And so then suddenly, even though

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Speaker 2: Indiana was twenty minutes down the road to go to school,

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Speaker 2: it was an international university all different people, diverse people,

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Speaker 2: different cultures, different languages.

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Speaker 1: And I just love that.

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Speaker 3: I literally it was my first awakening.

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Speaker 2: It was when I was like, holy shit, life is cool,

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Speaker 2: and I want to explore every que owner of this world.

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Speaker 2: It's like the world literally opened up just through my

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Speaker 2: experiences there. So I was a very average academic student.

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Speaker 2: I did love my journalism classes when I finally figured

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Speaker 2: that out, but otherwise I was just I was learning

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Speaker 2: in the streets.

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Speaker 3: Yeah literally.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I always say I learned more in my

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Speaker 1: first like, you know, six weeks of working than I

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Speaker 1: learned in four years ago. I mean, you learn life

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Speaker 1: pretty quick once, you like, I mean, I moved to

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Speaker 1: New York City and started working for like seventy five

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Speaker 1: dollars a day, and I was just like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to work as hard as I can,

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Speaker 1: and I love this so much that I can't breathe.

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Speaker 1: So I don't care if I work twenty hours a day,

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Speaker 1: you know. So yeah, I mean I think, I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's so interesting to me because you know,

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Speaker 1: I didn't grow up in a small I grew up

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Speaker 1: in a suburb of New York City, but I was

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Speaker 1: thirty minutes from the city. So for me, New York

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Speaker 1: was like my I feel in many ways that I

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Speaker 1: grew up in New York. So I meet so many

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Speaker 1: incredible women that grew up all over the country in

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Speaker 1: these tiny, little towns and then they go to college

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Speaker 1: and it's like what it's like, It's like the whole

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Speaker 1: world just opened. And I think if for nothing else,

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Speaker 1: then college served you in that way because I think

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Speaker 1: it kind of opened the doors to life a little bit, right, yes, a.

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Speaker 3: Lot in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 2: And if it weren't for even you know, speaking of

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Speaker 2: women like leading women. It was literally an advisor my

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Speaker 2: senior year, this woman who was like, well, if you

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Speaker 2: really want to, like if if Oprah and Katie Kurr queen,

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Speaker 2: what are your exactly if they are your idols, by

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Speaker 2: the way, you need an internship and you need this.

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Speaker 3: And I didn't have anybody in my world telling me that.

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Speaker 2: I really just was like a little asleep at the

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Speaker 2: wheel because I think I had more of a limited

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Speaker 2: mindset back then. And so thank god for that female

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Speaker 2: advisor who was like, you should do an internship. And

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Speaker 2: the first internship I had was at you know, a

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Speaker 2: TV station in Indianapolis, and so like that really got

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Speaker 2: the ball rolling on.

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Speaker 1: And were you doing like the four am like really

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Speaker 1: going you were like there in the dark right all

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Speaker 1: of it. So tell me about that. So I want

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Speaker 1: to hear about that. Because I think everyone knows you

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Speaker 1: as cats Odler now right like this, you know, like brilliant, outspoken, fearless,

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Speaker 1: like beautiful, all these things. But like when you're young

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Speaker 1: and starting in that and certainly I think probably being

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Speaker 1: were you on air talent at that point?

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Speaker 2: Well, I forced myself on air before I'd even graduated college,

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Speaker 2: which is kind of funny, but no, I mean I

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Speaker 2: had to.

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Speaker 3: I had to really work at it at that local news, like.

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Speaker 1: Get coffee and clean up after everyone and do the things.

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Speaker 3: All the things.

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Speaker 1: I mean I hear that everybody all the things, all

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Speaker 1: the things, like everything. Like I had Tracy Cunningham on

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Speaker 1: here a while back, and she was like, I was

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Speaker 1: like making coffee and cleaning sinks. I was literally cleaning

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Speaker 1: hair out of sinks. That's how she started like, oh.

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Speaker 2: My god, I love to do love Tracy Cunningham.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was. I was that.

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Speaker 2: By the way, I think I had like three jobs.

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Speaker 2: I was in a band, I was like an intern

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Speaker 2: at a TV station. I was trying to pay my

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Speaker 2: own rent. I was at that TV station. Like back then,

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Speaker 2: you you couldn't even like because we didn't have phones,

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Speaker 2: you couldn't create content like on your phone. So I

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Speaker 2: was like spending my every last dime to hire a

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Speaker 2: cameraman because there were only camera men back then, and like.

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Speaker 1: Why would a woman hold a camera? That's crazy exactly.

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Speaker 3: It was just such a different time.

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Speaker 2: But I guess the smartest thing I did, and I

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Speaker 2: did a lot wrong, but the smartest thing I did

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Speaker 2: was completely take advantage of my position in the world

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Speaker 2: at that time. And I was I wasn't going to

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Speaker 2: leave that internship without learning everything. And I was that

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Speaker 2: girl like, I don't know you ever look back and

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Speaker 2: I'm like, how did I When did I sleep? Like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know how I did what I I know.

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Speaker 1: For sure I didn't. I have the wrinkles, the bags

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Speaker 1: that i've Oh no, no, I know very well. I

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Speaker 1: slept three hours a night for about twenty years, one

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Speaker 1: hundred percent. Yeah, and still by the way, I'm still

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Speaker 1: not much more now.

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Speaker 2: But yes, yeah, but it was worth it, right, I mean,

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Speaker 2: because that's trans kind of what it's what you said

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Speaker 2: you were like, I was, I couldn't breathe.

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Speaker 3: I loved it so much.

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Speaker 2: And that's for me, you know, I feel so fortunate

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Speaker 2: because you know, a lot of people spend their whole

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Speaker 2: twenties kind of really it's scratching their heads about their

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Speaker 2: passion or their you know, what are they going to

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Speaker 2: do with their life? And I understand that, but I

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Speaker 2: fortunately I kind of had the itch. I knew I

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Speaker 2: wanted to tell people's stories. I knew that communicating like

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Speaker 2: I am a speaker. My mom was always like, slow down,

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Speaker 2: you talk too much. Like I just love the art

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Speaker 2: of conversation and I love telling people's stories. And so

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Speaker 2: it didn't start out as entertainment or celebrity. It started

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Speaker 2: out as just general assignment news. But it was funny

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Speaker 2: because when even through that first job at my first.

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Speaker 3: Local TV station.

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Speaker 2: When I ended up getting like the criminal beat, the

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Speaker 2: crime beat, and I was chasing fires and I was

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Speaker 2: doing all this as like a twenty one year old,

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Speaker 2: I learned real quick that was what I wanted to do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're like more glamorous, please, this is not for me.

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Speaker 1: Just terrifying anything, It's not for me.

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Speaker 2: I was in fishnet stockings, I kid you not, in

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Speaker 2: like still Lettos, thinking I was so cute, and then

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Speaker 2: they're like we've got a dead body down at blah

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Speaker 2: blah blah, and I was like, no, but I didn't

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Speaker 2: think there was anything beyond that, right, unless you were maybe.

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Speaker 2: I mean you may remember this, like the VH one

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Speaker 2: Top twenty Countdown with Rangel Parry.

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Speaker 3: Course do you remember this?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Of course, Okay, So that was I was like watching

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Speaker 4: her and she was so hip and cool, and I

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Speaker 4: was like, how can I take what I've learned about journalism, learned.

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Speaker 2: About broadcasting, but not just be on the local news

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Speaker 2: covering these sorry, but like mundane stories day after day.

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Speaker 3: And so you know, I'm sure you've heard this as well.

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Speaker 2: I was like, I'm always telling people, you know, it's

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Speaker 2: often what you don't want to do that teaches you

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Speaker 2: what you do want to do.

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Speaker 3: And I was like, I don't want to go that.

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Speaker 3: I want to like merge my love of fashion and

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Speaker 3: beauty and film and music and all in common being

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Speaker 3: a woman.

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Speaker 2: How can that be a part of what I do

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Speaker 2: every day? And so it took a while, I mean,

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Speaker 2: mind you. So I went from Indianapolis. Then I was

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Speaker 2: in San Francisco.

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Speaker 3: I was on air there for about four years.

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Speaker 1: Lettle More Glamorous San Francisco.

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Speaker 2: What, oh my gosh, Rachel, like, this is an Indiana

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Speaker 2: girl who never lived anywhere else you must have died.

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Speaker 1: That must have just been like San Francisco's like I

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Speaker 1: mean not right now, it's not in a great state,

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Speaker 1: but it's an incredible, magical place. I mean, let's be real,

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Speaker 1: it's maagul. Yes.

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Speaker 2: I think that's when I fell in love with California also,

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Speaker 2: I mean the ocean and the mountains, Like.

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Speaker 1: This is real.

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Speaker 2: I would have done that job for free. I actually

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Speaker 2: would have a billion. I was so on fire for

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Speaker 2: life in California and then I got this job as

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Speaker 2: kind of like the features like Beat reporter as a

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Speaker 2: twenty two year old, my first job, full time reporting job,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, you know, best days in my life.

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Speaker 2: That for me was more of my college experience, that

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Speaker 2: first TV job where I just grind it every day.

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Speaker 2: I produced everything, I booked everything, I helped edit everything.

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Speaker 2: I did my own glam, I did my own outfits.

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Speaker 2: It was like that was my school.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say, but that was your boot camp, right,

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Speaker 1: because like that's what I try and teach younger people.

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Speaker 1: Not to sound like like I'm eighty, but I'm just

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Speaker 1: like what you don't understand is the more that you do.

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Speaker 1: Because I hear so many like young pe like twenty

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Speaker 1: their first jobs and they're like, I'm so tired. I'm

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Speaker 1: working so much. They want me to work on a

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Speaker 1: Saturday and they're texting me on a Saturday at four

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Speaker 1: o'clock and I'm I was about to go to yoga,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, I'm like, what you don't understand is

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Speaker 1: this is your grad school. This is your You will

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Speaker 1: do anything after this. You will be prepared for anything.

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Speaker 1: The more they pile on you, the more responsibility you have,

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Speaker 1: the more training you get, and the more you know

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Speaker 1: for the next step. And I think it's hard to

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Speaker 1: know that until you're put in that situation, you know,

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Speaker 1: But I think, like it's so interesting and I love

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Speaker 1: hearing that you did that because you know, I think

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Speaker 1: now you know, TV is very different, you know, entertainment

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Speaker 1: in general is so different. I mean you must be.

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Speaker 1: It's like me at the fashion world. I'm like, someone's like,

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Speaker 1: how's the fashion world changed? I'm like, shouldn't it be?

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Speaker 1: How hasn't it changed? What do you mean like and

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Speaker 1: the way we consume you know, media and everything else.

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Speaker 1: But I think for you, so okay, so hold on,

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Speaker 1: I want to pause for saying, so when did you

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Speaker 1: meet your husband or first husband? As a CEO fashion

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Speaker 1: authority and mom, I know it's the details that truly matter,

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Speaker 1: and when it comes to luxury, every stitch must be

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Speaker 1: perfectly tailored. That's why driving the sleek Genesis GV eighty

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00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:26,960
Speaker 1: is such a luxurious experience. The SUV's exterior design, including

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00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:31,399
Speaker 1: two line led headlamps, exudes athletic elegance. When you sit

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Speaker 1: inside the expansive GV eighty cabin, you can customize the

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Speaker 1: ambient interior lighting to match your current mood, a feature

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Speaker 1: that makes driving in LA a more relaxed and serene experience.

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Speaker 1: So go ahead, take a close look at the Genesis

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Speaker 1: GV eighty and you'll see lux is in the details.

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Speaker 3: Great question. So I met Kyle when I was nineteen.

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Speaker 3: So we met sah by the way college.

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Speaker 1: Yes, you met in college, like you though.

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Speaker 2: You actely all things considered, But we met when yeah,

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Speaker 2: we were super young. And then when I got that

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Speaker 2: TV job in San Francisco, Kyle also came out there,

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Speaker 2: and then my first son was born when I was

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Speaker 2: there working in San Francisco.

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Speaker 1: Very young, yeah, yes, yeah.

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Speaker 3: I was twenty five at that point.

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Speaker 1: But yes, I mean today, doesn't that sound like seventeen right? No,

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Speaker 1: it does, it does, right. But okay, so you're a

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Speaker 1: young right, so you had a child, You're working like

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Speaker 1: crazy and married and living in San Francisco.

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Speaker 3: Were you just like, so, here's here's kind of what happened.

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Speaker 3: This was a definitely a pivotal moment.

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Speaker 2: You know, those big life things that happen, and we

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Speaker 2: all have a couple of them that are like really major.

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Speaker 2: And with Austin, my firstborn son, I had Austin, and

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Speaker 2: then I had like what maybe a two month maternity

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Speaker 2: leave or something, maybe three months if I was lucky.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I.

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Speaker 2: Did absolutely love my job. I loved being on air

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Speaker 2: every day. I loved that there was a new like

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Speaker 2: every day you got a reset if it sucked, if

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Speaker 2: you didn't do great, you'd get a brand new slate

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Speaker 2: everyday live TV. I was learning so much, I was

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Speaker 2: reading a prompter.

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Speaker 3: I was like so on.

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Speaker 2: Fire for you know, creating. That was my version of

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Speaker 2: creating then. But when I got when I became a mother,

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Speaker 2: I just I had this overwhelming anxiety as a twenty

385
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Speaker 2: five year old when.

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Speaker 3: I was like, I'm not ready to go back.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't ready, and I was having nightmares and I

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Speaker 2: had I'm skipping a lot of the story. I had

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Speaker 2: a very very tumultuous first pregnancy. I was on beddress

390
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Speaker 2: for like six months. I was even told like he

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Speaker 2: might not be born. I made made your pre term

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Speaker 2: labor symptoms.

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Speaker 3: So I had even like.

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Speaker 1: Us, which is so much as a twenty five year

395
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Speaker 1: old too, because it's all so new and scary, and

396
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Speaker 1: life new and scary. Your job is let new and

397
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Speaker 1: scary and yes, so all of.

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Speaker 2: That kind of compounded, and and what that meant was

399
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Speaker 2: that I was like, I need more time.

400
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Speaker 3: I'm not ready to throw my brand new baby boy.

401
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Speaker 2: In like some kind of commercial daycare for sixty hours

402
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,040
Speaker 2: a week while I chase my dream where we're barely

403
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Speaker 2: affording to like pay our rent. You know. It was

404
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,240
Speaker 2: so I had this very big kind of moral decision

405
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Speaker 2: like to make, and luckily Kyle, I was like, listen,

406
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Speaker 2: maybe we just pause. I just want one year, go

407
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Speaker 2: back to Nanna, take a year half this time with

408
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Speaker 2: my baby boy. And you know, he got a job transfer.

409
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Speaker 2: I'm kind of skipping the whole story, but it worked

410
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Speaker 2: out so that I was able and certainly lucky enough

411
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Speaker 2: to take a year off. But everyone thought, Here's the

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Speaker 2: funny part is is that everyone, including my bosses, including

413
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Speaker 2: all the TV executives, are like, oh, she's done. She's

414
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Speaker 2: going off to be a mom. Now, like she's done,

415
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Speaker 2: Like we let's write her off. You know, of course,

416
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Speaker 2: Oh she'll be back. Yeah, right, she's mo she's a mom.

417
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Speaker 2: And at the time, it's like, that's all.

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Speaker 3: You can be.

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Speaker 2: Then if you're going to, you know, make that decision.

420
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Speaker 2: And I was so hell bent On'm like no, no, no,

421
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Speaker 2: one year and I kid you not. We moved back

422
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:18,280
Speaker 2: to Indiana and on his first birthday, March eighth, I

423
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,880
Speaker 2: signed my next TV contract. So it was like this

424
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:27,520
Speaker 2: beautiful reward for listening to what I knew my soul

425
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,720
Speaker 2: and spirit was telling me. And then you know, I

426
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,639
Speaker 2: felt like the universe kind of paid me back in

427
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:35,879
Speaker 2: kind and was like, you know, your your journey and

428
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,560
Speaker 2: purpose can still be TV. That might be your calling.

429
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Speaker 2: But I did take care of myself and I do

430
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Speaker 2: and I think that's something I talk about a lot

431
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,159
Speaker 2: with women. It's like, you know, we don't do ourselves

432
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Speaker 2: any favor when we neglect those voices and when we

433
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 2: pretend they're not happening or we keep you know, you

434
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 2: can make yourself sick, you can make yourself ill.

435
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Speaker 3: You can just like I'm.

436
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:01,360
Speaker 2: All for bust an ass, but that I'm so glad

437
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 2: that I took that year with him that I'll never

438
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 2: get back. And then the TV career resumed, but it

439
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 2: resumed back in Indiana on local TV again full time

440
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,880
Speaker 2: right until e So that's kind of the story, now,

441
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:14,960
Speaker 2: is that okay?

442
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 1: And then you moved to.

443
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,679
Speaker 2: La Yes, so I had one more child, wow, my

444
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 2: second son.

445
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:21,520
Speaker 3: We both have two boys.

446
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,320
Speaker 2: And then and then that's when I really really really

447
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 2: about the itch because I was like thirty, you're like okay.

448
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,280
Speaker 1: I was like, well, I think after the second one,

449
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,920
Speaker 1: you the first one paralyzes you, right, like the first

450
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 1: one paralyzes you. I you know, I listen if it

451
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 1: makes you feel any better at all. I could not

452
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,120
Speaker 1: get my head out of my ass for a full year.

453
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:44,320
Speaker 1: I could not I could not function. I could not

454
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 1: figure out how to leave that baby for one minute

455
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:53,160
Speaker 1: without feeling like the worst mother ever, And nor did

456
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 1: I want to leave him for one minute. So I

457
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 1: took him everywhere, did not leave that child until he

458
00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,440
Speaker 1: was like four years old. I just took him everywhere.

459
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 1: And by the second one, by the time I kiah is,

460
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,920
Speaker 1: I was in a fitting with Jen Lawrence like ten

461
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 1: days later, And it wasn't It was more that I

462
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 1: psychologically had it figured out, Like meaning, the first one

463
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 1: turns you upside down. And I think, if you're a

464
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 1: workaholic and you're going like at full speed and then

465
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,159
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, this angel baby lands in your

466
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 1: hand and just literally paralyzes you, You're like, I can't do

467
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 1: anything but look at you and love you, right, And

468
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 1: how do you I think this struggle is for women,

469
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 1: and I don't want to speak for you, but I

470
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:43,159
Speaker 1: know for me it was how do I, who is

471
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 1: this person now? Right?

472
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 2: Like?

473
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,679
Speaker 1: And how do I go back to that person that

474
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 1: everybody wants back when I don't feel like that person

475
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 1: right now? Right? And I think for me that was

476
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 1: sort of the struggle of, like, if I only want

477
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 1: to do this now, how do I go back to

478
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 1: being that person? And the reality of it is, you

479
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 1: don't go back to being that person. You go back

480
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 1: to being a different person, right, a different version of

481
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,639
Speaker 1: that person. And I think women, really we have to

482
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,719
Speaker 1: navigate that. I think women with careers and children have

483
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 1: to navigate that, right, So.

484
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 2: It's just one more thing that we as women that

485
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 2: that is certainly a uniquely female thing. And and yes,

486
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 2: I understand that it's like reconciling motherhood and womanhood and

487
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,639
Speaker 2: how does that look once that becomes your new dynamic

488
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 2: and it's an ongoing, lifelong process. I'm still figuring that out. Yeah,

489
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 2: there's the different pages, right when they're the babies and

490
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 2: then they're gritten older, and then you have a new

491
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 2: set of problems. And now my kid's just left. I

492
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,120
Speaker 2: am an empty nester.

493
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 1: That is, and I'm wild, is wild, but wild.

494
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 2: I find myself still asking that same question of so

495
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 2: who am I now?

496
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 3: Right?

497
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 2: It's like we're constantly redefining what that means for ourselves

498
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 2: and having to take inventory and remember who we are

499
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 2: in all of these different ways.

500
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 1: But don't you feel because instinctually we feel this overwhelming

501
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 1: need to prove ourselves over and over and over and

502
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 1: over and I don't even know. I mean, I think

503
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: it's to prove ourselves to us, Like I don't even

504
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 1: know who I'm trying to prove to. You know what

505
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 1: I mean it's more just like no, you can do this,

506
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 1: No you're not done, No, keep going. You know. It's

507
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: like what and I feel like, you know, I'm watching

508
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 1: you know, young children now with my kids, and I'm

509
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,199
Speaker 1: watching the girls and the boys and whatever, and you

510
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: see the girls just like overachieving over and listens to generalizations.

511
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, like I can see even in my

512
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 1: friends with young girls, there's just this overwhelming perfectionism and

513
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 1: desire to prove and to keep doing more, doing more,

514
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 1: doing more, doing more, right, And I think that that

515
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: stays with us, right.

516
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 2: It's I will say that, Yeah, I think exactly what

517
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 2: you're describing is most high achieving women who have dreams

518
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 2: and goals like that's that's how we get on, and

519
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 2: that is that hamster wheel of wanting to prove to

520
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 2: either to ourselves or to other people or to an industry,

521
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,880
Speaker 2: you know, what we are made of. I will say

522
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 2: one of the best parts for me personally about being

523
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 2: this middle aged season of life that I find myself

524
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 2: in it's the first time where I feel a less

525
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 2: of that.

526
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: Pressure or at peace.

527
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 3: Well, it's like two things.

528
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 2: It's like one kind of like what you're saying it's

529
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 2: like if I pause and I like get in a

530
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 2: slower gear, and I just, you know, right now, I

531
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 2: had I move for the first time in fifteen years.

532
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 2: I have a new partner and we're merging lives, and

533
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 2: my kids just left the nest and they moved out

534
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,719
Speaker 2: of my home, and so I have so much going on,

535
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 2: and it's like, I'm also just trying to give myself

536
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 2: permission to go It's okay to be in this gear

537
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 2: right now. It's okay, hey, to not have a book

538
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 2: coming out next week and to not have booked a

539
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 2: new TV show. Like I'm actually trying to just be

540
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 2: in this space a little bit and like soften a

541
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 2: little bit because I know I'll rimp right back up

542
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 2: to my typical self. But it is a challenge, and

543
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 2: I guess I just think some women do want that

544
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 2: permission to be like I can find some healthy balance

545
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,479
Speaker 2: of it all one.

546
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's funny because my sister is

547
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: an empty nester now and I'm you know, and I

548
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 1: have these young kids and I'm literally like this is wild,

549
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: like the empty net. It's like what do you wake up?

550
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 2: Like what, Well, my boyfriend is four kids, so oh

551
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 2: my gosh, seven eighth God, no girls, but girls. I

552
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 2: inherited some girls, so I'm like loving it.

553
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 1: Souch, that must be so fun.

554
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 3: It's pretty yummy.

555
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,360
Speaker 2: They're so amazing and they're you know, I always say,

556
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 2: like my kids, these kids, kids teach us, you know,

557
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 2: more about ourselves than anything in life. So I'm enjoying

558
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 2: this season of I guess they're filling in the gaps

559
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 2: a little. If I didn't have those sweeties, I'd be

560
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 2: devastating on the floor, Like what do I do with

561
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 2: my life? I'm bugging my adult kids too much. I'm

562
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,120
Speaker 2: like literally having to like, Okay, don't you.

563
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 3: Just talk to them? Put the phone down, don't text

564
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 3: them all day long. You know, it's a whole it's

565
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 3: a whole thing. But again, kind of cool.

566
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 2: There's a lot of shitty things about aging, but one

567
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 2: of the best things is like, wow, I do have

568
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 2: a whole lot of my stories still left to right

569
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 2: and I have all this freedom to create whatever that's

570
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 2: gonna look like.

571
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 3: So that's exciting.

572
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: I want to talk about a really pivotal moment that

573
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,959
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know that everyone knows, but I

574
00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: certainly know it was a big thing in the industry.

575
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: I want to talk about your time on E because

576
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: I mean, so how long were you How long were

577
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: you on.

578
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 2: E for I was there for almost exactly twelve years?

579
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: Wow?

580
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 2: Wow, two thousand and six to two thy seventeen in

581
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 2: two thousands.

582
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 3: Wow.

583
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: Okay, so at what point you were obviously on air,

584
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: an adored and obviously so great.

585
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 2: Well, and that's why I got to know you, because you, guys,

586
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 2: I interviewed Rachel backstage in New York Fashion Week. I

587
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 2: can tell you how many times, and I like, you know,

588
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 2: the icon that you are.

589
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 3: I'll never forget.

590
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 2: The first time I interviewed you was in your studio.

591
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: The one on I remember it. I was showing my

592
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: Spring twenty twelve collections. Guy was a baby and he

593
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: was like in the back I remember, and the models

594
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: were up on like a platform, right, yeah, that one, Yeah,

595
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: I remember.

596
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, And you know those moments.

597
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 2: I mean, that's why I loved my job so much,

598
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 2: because gosh, what a what a I'm a dream job

599
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 2: to have those type of experiences and get so up

600
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 2: close to people like yourself and get to connect with

601
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 2: all these phenomenal people and go to fashion week and

602
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 2: travel the world and all that stuff.

603
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 3: But yes, so I was there for twelve almost twelve years.

604
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 1: And at what point, So there you are, You're like

605
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: this star and e everybody knows you. You're seemingly have

606
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: the dream job, right, and then one day you're like, fuck, no,

607
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: what's going on? So tell tell me? So tell me

608
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 1: about this moment where you came out and spoke very

609
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: loudly and proudly, well maybe not proudly, but very loudly

610
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: about an equal pay for women. Yeah, tell me about that.

611
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 3: It's so interesting.

612
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 2: All my decision and departure from me was kind of

613
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 2: like a year in the making way, So because I've

614
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 2: been there so so long, and I'd been through so

615
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 2: many regimes, you know, I'd been through different bosses and

616
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 2: presidents and iterations e Any News and the Daily Ten

617
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 2: and The Daily Pop, all the different shows, and so

618
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 2: I'd seemed so so much.

619
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 3: And at the time I had been hired to.

620
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 2: Host a new show, The Daily Pop in the mornings

621
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 2: and it was live for two hours and then still

622
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,719
Speaker 2: be on set for E News at least a minimum

623
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 2: of three days out of the five all week long.

624
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 2: And so I had kind of inherited double the work,

625
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 2: and I was in the final year of my contract

626
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 2: there because for people don't know in the TV world,

627
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 2: like if you're an on air quote unquote talent, you

628
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 2: do contracts two three years at a time, and then

629
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 2: you go back to the drawing board. Everybody agents, everybody

630
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 2: gets involved, and you sign a no deal or you have.

631
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 3: The option to leave.

632
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 2: And so I was in the last year of my

633
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 2: deal and I got an email from a female executive

634
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 2: who was like, Hey, can you come to a meeting.

635
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 2: It was like this kind of closed door meeting, which

636
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 2: felt really unusual, and I knew right away it wasn't

637
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,479
Speaker 2: about whatever story that she said it was about. I

638
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 2: just knew it was about something else. And so we

639
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 2: had a meeting in my dressing room and she just said,

640
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 2: in her word, she's like, I know how hard you

641
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 2: are busting it right now, and I know that your

642
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 2: deals up at the end of the year, and I

643
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 2: just want you to know that you are severely underpaid.

644
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 3: Those are her words. Like it was just like she

645
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:31,719
Speaker 3: was doing me a solid.

646
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 2: She knew and she knew it was unfair and that

647
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 2: the imbalance was obvious, and so I was like, okay,

648
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 2: and I just I remember being kind of embarrassed because literally,

649
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 2: again back in twenty seven.

650
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 1: Like an asshole. Basically you're just like, yeah, yeah, of course, like.

651
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 2: What, I'm like, wait what, Like you know, it does

652
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 2: It didn't matter that I loved my job. It didn't

653
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 2: matter that I missed the child doctor's appointments during the

654
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 2: week because I was like so loyal to my company

655
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 2: and so committed, and I definitely did do those weekends

656
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 2: and those weeks away and those nights. I did that

657
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 2: for more than a decade there. So I was like

658
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 2: employee number one, Like I was a team player. I

659
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 2: had a great attitude. I was doing everything right. And

660
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 2: I also knew that I had value or they wouldn't

661
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 2: have given me a new show, right, Like you don't

662
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 2: give me more real estate on air if I'm not

663
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 2: going to my job.

664
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: And there's a thousand people that would kill for your jobs.

665
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 3: So like, well, and there is the problem because they

666
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 3: know that.

667
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 2: And so when you go to corporation and then you

668
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 2: say to your agents and your team when you have

669
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 2: this kind of.

670
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 3: Knowledge, I confirmed the information.

671
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 2: Firstly, I started doing my research as an a journalist does,

672
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 2: and I was like okay, yeah, well shit, this is embarrassing.

673
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 2: And then it got Then I got angry because I

674
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 2: was like, I was like, all they need to do

675
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 2: is make it right.

676
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 3: And by the way, all they need to do is

677
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 3: pay me ballpark.

678
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: Of course, of what.

679
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 2: My counterpart, Jason Kennedy, my very dear friend, was making

680
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 2: and they just they wouldn't meet me there, Rachel.

681
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 3: It was just kind of like one of those things.

682
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 2: And so we went back and forth for months about it,

683
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 2: and you know, they weren't moving. And when that became

684
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 2: clear to me is when I knew I had.

685
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 3: A decision to make.

686
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, I love my job, this this

687
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 2: this e run has like I've seen the world. But

688
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 2: one of my good friends was like, do you bet

689
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 2: on yourself?

690
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 3: If you leave? Do you bet on yourself? Can't? What

691
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 3: about you? And could I exist on my own?

692
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 2: And so these are the questions I was asking myself

693
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 2: and the answer was, yes, I do believe in myself.

694
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 3: And that is something that experience does give you.

695
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 2: Of course, because I wasn't, you know, no offense to

696
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 2: a reality star who just got plucked off, you know,

697
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 2: and then suddenly they're like, yeah, I've been at this

698
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 2: for almost twenty years at this point, which was another reason.

699
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 2: I think they were like, it, screw it, We'll just

700
00:34:57,880 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 2: let her go and you know, we'll re up with

701
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 2: the town to your older you know whatever, all those

702
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 2: many factors, which is also.

703
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 1: Hard, which is also hard, right, I mean, that doesn't

704
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: feel right in any.

705
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 3: I mean they never said that, of course, of course,

706
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 3: of course not.

707
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 2: It doesn't take much to figure out that they could

708
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 2: get anybody to do the job for basically free, that

709
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 2: you know that doesn't have two kids they have to

710
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 2: worry about, who doesn't you knowsh.

711
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 1: An industry was the same. It was the same still

712
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: probably you don't have to pay people, you know what

713
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: I mean.

714
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 2: Everybody wanted the job exactly right, like exactly and and

715
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 2: and that's that's that can be really clunky for the

716
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 2: people who know their value and want to be paid

717
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 2: what they deserved, they deserve in a fair way. So

718
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 2: I consulted with some female mentors of mine, and it

719
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 2: was really really scary. I mean, the truth is, I

720
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 2: I decided to leave, but I wasn't necessarily I mean

721
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 2: not at all. I wasn't meaning for it to become

722
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 2: the story that it did. I just wrote my Ruth

723
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 2: on my blog.

724
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 1: You're probably terrified right of.

725
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 2: Being blacklisted and never you know, of course I was

726
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 2: so again, Rachel, this is like Indiana girl from a

727
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 2: small town. I didn't have I didn't know people like

728
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 2: on the top floor. I didn't know all the people

729
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 2: in New York like.

730
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 3: Like I didn't have. It didn't run deep within my network, really,

731
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 3: you know. So I also think.

732
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 1: In those in it at that time, I think we

733
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 1: really were of the belief. And by the way, I

734
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: want to say with that that I actually went freelance

735
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: and became my own boss when I was twenty five,

736
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 1: very much for this reason, because there was only a

737
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: finite number of jobs in the industry, right and everybody

738
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 1: there were hundreds of girls that wanted them, and they

739
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: would be paid seventeen thousand dollars a year with no

740
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 1: problem and happily go in every day with a smile

741
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: and heals on. And I just I took that jump,

742
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 1: and I was terrified. But I think for you, I

743
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: think there's that feeling of like, you know, there's a

744
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 1: lot of head of companies that would say everyone's replaceable,

745
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: everyone's replaceable. I mean, you have that in your head.

746
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, wait, I want to stand up for myself, right,

747
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,320
Speaker 1: I want to speak my truth. I believe in myself.

748
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 1: I know I deserve more than this. But like, what

749
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 1: if I'm the only one that this, Like what if

750
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 1: I'm at my job? Like you had two kids at

751
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 1: that point?

752
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah yeah. And by the way, and

753
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 3: I wasn't.

754
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 2: I wasn't financially in a situation where I had a

755
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 2: partner that was taking care of me.

756
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,240
Speaker 1: You were single at this point, right, were you single

757
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:35,959
Speaker 1: at the yes, I was.

758
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 3: Just I was newly single. I was newly single.

759
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 1: Also terrifying.

760
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, it's like we pilo it on ourselves.

761
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh yeah, let just be a

762
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 2: single mom again, and then I'll just leave my job

763
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 2: and like it.

764
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 3: I'll tell you though, I mean for climbing in heels.

765
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 2: And the smartest thing I did career wise was, at

766
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 2: the time leading up to my departure and decision, I

767
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 2: was really paying attention to the change in the landscape,

768
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 2: and I was really paying attention to digital content, and

769
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 2: I was growing on the side my website and my blog,

770
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 2: and I was paying enough attention to the monetary opportunities

771
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 2: that come from that side of the world in the entertainment, celebrity, beauty, fashion,

772
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 2: digital space that I was educating myself, and so I

773
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 2: had enough of some momentum on just my digital offerings,

774
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 2: and I was like doing some other things on the side, which,

775
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 2: by the way, E was not happy with, and they

776
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 2: that was one of the things that they kind of

777
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 2: condemned me for doing. It's like, well, you're already doing

778
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 2: and growing these other things on the side, well, so

779
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 2: punish us as women for doing that. Right first, surviving, Like, thank.

780
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 3: God I did.

781
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 2: Thank god I did, because I don't know if I

782
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 2: could have left. So I had enough momentum there to go.

783
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 2: I've got a bet on myself. Then I got to

784
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 2: see where this lands. And then thank god I did,

785
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 2: because you know, from a kind of deep spiritual lens,

786
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 2: I really do believe that my exit positioned me in

787
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 2: a way that I didn't ask to be like a

788
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 2: poster child of equal pay. But what it did do

789
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 2: is allow me to connect with all these young girls

790
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 2: and all these women around the world who were fighting

791
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 2: for equal pay and hated their jobs and couldn't leave

792
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 2: their jobs. You know, So, like I can't tell you

793
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 2: how many of them I heard from like please fight

794
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 2: this fight, Please use your voice, you do have reach,

795
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 2: like keep going for us, And so then I felt

796
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 2: this obligation to do that, and I spent that whole

797
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 2: first year after I left really leaning into that, and

798
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 2: I felt so lucky. I mean, it was such a

799
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 2: shitty situation, and yes I was angry and I was

800
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 2: I felt really taken advantage of. But like then that

801
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 2: quickly turned into well, how can I use this for good?

802
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 3: And it really was great to do that.

803
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,879
Speaker 1: I mean I was so impressed. I was like, oh god,

804
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 1: I thought it was I thought it was amazing and

805
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 1: I and listen, and I think also for you and

806
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 1: your brand and everything you're doing, I think it just

807
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: really gave you even that much more amplification and power, honestly,

808
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 1: and I think it also made people look at you

809
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: in a different light, you know. And you know, I

810
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 1: think sometimes journalists, no matter what they're on, you know,

811
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: can get people say things. People they think they're this

812
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 1: like person just dying to be on TV sometimes or whatever.

813
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: And there's just so much to you. You're so smart,

814
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: you're so ambitious, you're so driven. You've certainly climbed in

815
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: a really you know, and with grit and integrity, and

816
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 1: you know, I would argue to say that in all

817
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 1: of this, I think being a single mom is probably

818
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 1: one of the hardest parts of all of it. When

819
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: you add layers of a career to that, it's a lot.

820
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 1: It's a lot. Yeah, And you look amazing.

821
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 3: Well you, by the way, I would say, you've.

822
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 1: Always looked amazing. I would say, now, but did.

823
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 3: You hear my other news?

824
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,360
Speaker 1: I had a little I did hear this. I didn't

825
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 1: see it because I don't know why I didn't see it,

826
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 1: but like I'm also so squeamish, I probably wouldn't have.

827
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 1: But so I want to talk about that because you

828
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,319
Speaker 1: look beautiful. You started beautiful, but you look beautiful. You

829
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:24,280
Speaker 1: look very rested.

830
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 2: Thank you. Well good, I'm glad because I am very

831
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 2: very happy with my results. I will say, I mean

832
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 2: another kind of terrifying thing that I didn't think at

833
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 2: forty eight that I was like, I wasn't like hell

834
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 2: bent on getting a facelift or anything. It wasn't something

835
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 2: I thought about for a long long time. But then

836
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 2: when I did realize it was an opportunity, and I

837
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 2: talk to my doctor now I'm like, thank god I did.

838
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 3: Now I'm so happy.

839
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 1: Now you're so happy, You're so confident, right, Yeah, that's

840
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, that's now.

841
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,240
Speaker 2: That's like the outside matches the inside. I was spending

842
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 2: a little too much time looking in the mirror thing

843
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 2: thinking I was tired or even a little sad, or

844
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 2: like you in your mouth's like going down. It's like,

845
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 2: but I'm happy and I have all the fatality and

846
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 2: I like love lights, and so yeah.

847
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 3: I kind of went for it.

848
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 2: It's a much bigger deal than I anticipated, Like I

849
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 2: was down and out for like two and a half months.

850
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's a really big deal, which is why

851
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 1: I haven't really seriously, I dream about it and I

852
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,280
Speaker 1: want to do it, and I talk to myself about

853
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: doing something really like exciting and drastic, so that again,

854
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: I don't look so freaking tired all the time you

855
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 1: look mah.

856
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 2: First of all, I love you, like honestly, you are

857
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 2: such goals.

858
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 3: Everyone about your goals, so.

859
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 2: I don't want to hear about But I know how

860
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 2: that feels, like it's it it matters how we feel.

861
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 1: It does. But it's also like, how do I have

862
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 1: two months to disappear like, well, like.

863
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 2: That's I'm in four months post I think right now

864
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:55,240
Speaker 2: for almost five months post.

865
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 1: In fact, that's how I heard about it. I heard

866
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 1: about it through a public woman who I was talking

867
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,839
Speaker 1: to and she's like, I'm coming to La, I'm going

868
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 1: to Cat's doctor and I'm like, cat who. They're like

869
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 1: cats other have you've seen her? I'm like, what are

870
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 1: you talking about? They're like, she looks unreal. I'm doing

871
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 1: this And I was like, what are you talking about.

872
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, I got to call her and they're like,

873
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,320
Speaker 1: oh no, she documented it. She's very open about it.

874
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 1: I'm like, what, wait a minute, what but you look incredible,

875
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 1: and I think, look, my theory about this is everyone

876
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 1: has to do what makes them feel more confident, and

877
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 1: aging is not easy, and anyone who says it is,

878
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: I'm going to just call them out. But by the way,

879
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:36,320
Speaker 1: bless them. If they think it's easy and they're aging

880
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:40,240
Speaker 1: gracefully and beautifully and peacefully, I think they're my idol.

881
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 1: It is not easy. It is not easy. None of

882
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 1: it is easy. The only thing I would say is

883
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 1: easy is where you are in your mind is the

884
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:47,240
Speaker 1: easiest part.

885
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 2: And your peace right yeah, like you, I think know

886
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 2: yourself maybe better than you ever had.

887
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:55,720
Speaker 3: You've been in your body for longer.

888
00:43:55,840 --> 00:44:00,799
Speaker 2: Obviously, I'm liking to challenge this idea of growing old gracefully.

889
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 3: Right, we were always like.

890
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 2: Told that that that's the way to age gracefully, But

891
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 2: what does that mean? Like for me, gracefully doesn't mean

892
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 2: like falling over, rolling over and just accepting how it

893
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:17,240
Speaker 2: has to be on your face or wrinkles or whatever.

894
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 2: Like for me, like, why can't growing old gracefully mean

895
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 2: stepping into your power and again not hiding from who

896
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 2: you are and who you want to be. And I've

897
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 2: always said, you know, I've done all this internal work

898
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 2: and I do my hot yoga, and I do my therapy,

899
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 2: and I write my journals, I read my books like

900
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 2: I'm very much on that grind and journey also, and

901
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,280
Speaker 2: I think that's where I have this kind of inner piece,

902
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 2: more than I've had in decades. But then the flip

903
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 2: side is, then this is this exterior stuff is just

904
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 2: a gift to myself.

905
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: You know.

906
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,320
Speaker 2: It's like I'm not doing it because I'm self loathing

907
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 2: or I think I'm sure.

908
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 1: It's not like an insecurity thing. It's actually just so

909
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 1: that you look in the mirror and you spend you

910
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: waste so much less time covering things in your face

911
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 1: and like staring in the mirror, going wouldn't I look

912
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 1: better if I was like this, Wouldn't I look better

913
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 1: if my neck was taiter?

914
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 2: I know, the damn neck, Like, let's be a damn knick.

915
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 2: It's the neck, the damn neck. The damn that's the

916
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,839
Speaker 2: biggest thing I've The biggest change for me was like

917
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 2: my neck and jaws, Yeah, that makes such it's a thing.

918
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 2: And then the day comes where you know, I realize

919
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 2: the day is going to come where it's like I

920
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:27,799
Speaker 2: don't want to do this every ten years and I

921
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:29,800
Speaker 2: will have to just accept.

922
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:31,320
Speaker 3: That I'm probably going to be a grandmother, you know

923
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 3: what I mean.

924
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 1: And that's okay, that's okay, that's okay too, you.

925
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 2: Know, and I look forward to that. But for now,

926
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:40,439
Speaker 2: at this moment, at this age, it felt great.

927
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 1: And I would say to that too, the girl gracefully,

928
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:45,800
Speaker 1: because I do want to touch on that for a second.

929
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 1: I compare it a little bit to this sort of

930
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:53,879
Speaker 1: expectation of women having children, right, and this sort of

931
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 1: like trajectory of like this this unspoken script of like

932
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:03,320
Speaker 1: graduate college, meet your guy, get married, have children, the

933
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 1: whole thing. Right. I think that's all changed, right, I

934
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 1: think that's all changed. It's like I said to you,

935
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 1: having a baby at twenty five alls and feels like seventeen, right,

936
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 1: And I got married young. I got married at twenty five,

937
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: which also again feels like seventeen. But it's interesting, and

938
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 1: I think no path is the same, and I think

939
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 1: no one's approach to aging is the same. And I

940
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 1: don't think that there's a right or wrong to it.

941
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:25,439
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, I think if people don't

942
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 1: ever want to touch their face, I have friends that

943
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 1: have never gotten Vidoc's okay, great, god speed, love you.

944
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 1: That's your truth, right. But I think for me, I

945
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 1: am definitely someone who would like to try to fight

946
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 1: that process, you know, fight the process gracefully, honestly, if

947
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 1: that makes sense. And i'm I'm I think, take care

948
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: of your skin, do whatever makes you look in the

949
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 1: mirror and feel better about yourself.

950
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 3: Right one life.

951
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 1: It's like no right or wrong, no judgment, no judgment.

952
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 2: And I love what you're saying, like I let any

953
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 2: woman do what is right for her. That also means

954
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 2: in exchange, please allow me to do what I want

955
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 2: to do with my face.

956
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 3: It's my face, it's my life.

957
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 1: And.

958
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 2: It really stops there, like you get to decide and

959
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:18,240
Speaker 2: it is we live once people, It's just like yes.

960
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, so kat So now what you're an empty nester.

961
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 1: You have a new love with four children, girls, which

962
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 1: is amazing.

963
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 3: Well two two of the four girls.

964
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:31,799
Speaker 1: So maybe I'm gonna leave Roger and meet a new

965
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:34,839
Speaker 1: guy and find a guy with daughters so I can

966
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:36,399
Speaker 1: have some I think I'm getting I think I'm gonna

967
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: get my daughters via like granddaughters or something, because I've

968
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 1: contemplated selling my archives and I had lunch with a

969
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 1: friend of mine yesterday from London. He was one of

970
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 1: the biggest like vintage dealers forever, and I was like,

971
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 1: I'm selling everything. I don't want it. I have boys

972
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 1: that don't care. I have a niece that cann't care

973
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,239
Speaker 1: less about fashion. What am I doing? And he's like,

974
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 1: you're getting it via granddaughters. You have to save it.

975
00:47:58,040 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, so.

976
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 2: Oh that reminds me Rachel. Because my partner is Greg Alterman,

977
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 2: who started and founded Alternative apparel years and years, you.

978
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 3: Know, he's the T shirt guy. And that's when he

979
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 3: was like, oh, I.

980
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 2: Know, Rachel's like years ago old, and I was like,

981
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,240
Speaker 2: I'm sure, like she's put alternate T shirts on people. Yes,

982
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 2: of course he started that company and ended up selling it,

983
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 2: but that's his business. So all of that little random

984
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 2: plasm across pollination in this down.

985
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 1: I love that. Okay, so you look blissfully happy, you

986
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 1: look rested. You are an empty nester living like this

987
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 1: other chapter. What now, what's next? What's your biggest like

988
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:47,359
Speaker 1: focus or is it just on you right now? Like

989
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: I know you're working obviously.

990
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 3: No.

991
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:53,719
Speaker 2: No, I I have my weekly podcast which I do

992
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 2: put a lot of time and energy and love it too.

993
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 2: It's called Cat Saddler Now where I'm continuing to have

994
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 2: the conversations of course like this that have space that

995
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 2: like so different from TV, where we can like actually

996
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 2: converse and and have some meaning behind what we're talking about,

997
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 2: which I do love. My passion is really beyond just

998
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 2: the facelift. I mean, the reason the whole facelift came up.

999
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 1: Was because passion. It's really beyond the Facelift's funny. My

1000
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 1: passion is really beyond the facelift. But that's your new

1001
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 1: found passion. No, I'm kidding, it's just well.

1002
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 2: But the reason the facelift came to be at all

1003
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 2: was because I had this video series I was doing

1004
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:40,360
Speaker 2: called Midlife and Me, and I was and am interested

1005
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 2: in exploring what it means to be at this stage

1006
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:47,799
Speaker 2: of life and all that comes with it, whether it's

1007
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 2: the physical stuff, whether it's God, this hormonal crap havoc

1008
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 2: in my body, whether it's this existential like who am I?

1009
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 2: Who do I want to be for the second half

1010
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 2: of my life? What either's so much that women are

1011
00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 2: go going through. People can't sleep anymore, you know, we

1012
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 2: feel bloated, like it's like there are just so many

1013
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 2: layers to it, and I find it fascinating. So I

1014
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 2: mean to answer your question, I would like to do

1015
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 2: some more deep dives into.

1016
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 3: Helping women get.

1017
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 2: More information to them and go through some experimental type

1018
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 2: situations to you know, still have my journalist hat on,

1019
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 2: but kind of help women in that way.

1020
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 3: So I'm playing with some things.

1021
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 2: I have some projects I would like to return to

1022
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 2: television in a more meaningful way, not the five days

1023
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 2: a week entertainment but I do think that's where I belong.

1024
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 2: So I'm kind of getting my producer hat on and

1025
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:43,799
Speaker 2: I'm you know, got some show ideas and I'm kind

1026
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 2: of in that phase of probably really taking that more

1027
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 2: seriously now that I've gotten everybody where they need to

1028
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 2: be in my life. You know, you're in the apartment,

1029
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:58,840
Speaker 2: you're in college, and now I'm here, so now I

1030
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 2: can go back to it, you know, my work a

1031
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:04,240
Speaker 2: little bit. That's where I'm really interested in that space.

1032
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,879
Speaker 1: Well, I adore you. I'm so impressed with you. You are

1033
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 1: very respected and adored by many you should know, and

1034
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 1: I love talking to you. I always love talking to you,

1035
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 1: so and you know, I'm very excited for what snacks.

1036
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 1: And I'm also excited if you know, you're just kicking

1037
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 1: as at your podcast because you know, I think, just

1038
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 1: do whatever makes you happy, right, and you have a

1039
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:32,359
Speaker 1: lot to offer, so you know, I'm excited to see

1040
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 1: what you do.

1041
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 2: Well, it means a lot that we're we're doing a

1042
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 2: swap because you are going to be on my podcast

1043
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 2: soon and I love it.

1044
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:40,120
Speaker 3: I can't wait. I like you.

1045
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 2: What I love about like being in this business so long.

1046
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, I've seen you also along your

1047
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 2: way on all your different iterations, and it's fun to

1048
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 2: like go.

1049
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 3: Okay, what's going on today?

1050
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 2: And it's like a check So I can't wait to

1051
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 2: like turn the tables a little bit and talk to you.

1052
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:00,359
Speaker 2: But I am always always rooting for you, such a

1053
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 2: fan of you, and I just thank you for being

1054
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 2: a light and just so authentically you.

1055
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 1: It's so awesome. Well, I adore you. I mean, just

1056
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:13,320
Speaker 1: keep doing it, just keep doing it. You're on fire, lady.

1057
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:21,319
Speaker 1: It's that time in the show and I answer to

1058
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 1: listener questions, So let's see what we have today. Your

1059
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:28,880
Speaker 1: boys seem to be animal lovers? Are you? Do you

1060
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 1: like lizards and snakes? This is the funniest question and

1061
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 1: a very easy answer. Actually, I am an animal lover.

1062
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 1: I'm not someone who fills my house with animals only

1063
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 1: because I want to be fair to the animal. And

1064
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 1: you know, I had a dog in my twenties that

1065
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 1: I ended up leaving behind in New York City with

1066
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 1: my mother, and she lived her best life for another

1067
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 1: fifteen years after I left because I was living my

1068
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 1: very jet set career life and knew I couldn't be

1069
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:59,240
Speaker 1: a present dog mom So we have a dog, Goldie

1070
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 1: Sunshine more obsessed with her and we love her. And yes,

1071
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:06,320
Speaker 1: it is like having a third child, always doggy guilt

1072
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 1: all the time. So I am an animal lover, but

1073
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:11,799
Speaker 1: I don't know that that includes lizards and snakes in

1074
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 1: all honesty. And the answer to that is I would

1075
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:17,399
Speaker 1: never allow a lizard or a snake or any kind

1076
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 1: of reptile or small furry creature in my house. Not

1077
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 1: because I don't think they deserve to live, but I

1078
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:25,799
Speaker 1: don't think that I have to live with them. Hope

1079
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 1: that answers the question, Okay, what should I wear to

1080
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 1: a cocktail party in Fall? You know, I think cocktail

1081
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 1: at this point has so many definitions. I literally think

1082
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 1: that depending on where you live and the vibe of

1083
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 1: the person hosting, I think you really dress for that.

1084
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 1: You know. Of course I can say, oh, your favorite

1085
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 1: little black dress, because that is the easiest solution to

1086
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:50,880
Speaker 1: any cocktail party. But I think the idea for fall

1087
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 1: is that, you know, the little black dress has become

1088
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,920
Speaker 1: a trouser. It's become a midi, it's become a pencil

1089
00:53:56,960 --> 00:54:00,080
Speaker 1: skirt or a slip dress. It's become you know, so

1090
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 1: a polished pair of Dunham trousers with you know, a

1091
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 1: little sparkly top could be cocktail. So I think it

1092
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 1: really depends on the venue, on the host, on the

1093
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 1: theme if there is a theme. But I think ultimately

1094
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 1: cocktail party is whatever you make it, and I don't

1095
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 1: think there's necessarily wrong, but I would say, please don't

1096
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:25,440
Speaker 1: wear sneakers to a cocktail party, because then it's not cocktail.

1097
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 1: Don't forget to submit your questions for next week's episode.

1098
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:30,920
Speaker 1: All you have to do is dm us your questions

1099
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:33,759
Speaker 1: to at Clemian Hills Pod on Instagram and I might

1100
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:44,239
Speaker 1: just answer your question. I want to thank Kat so

1101
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,400
Speaker 1: much for coming on the podcast. I loved hearing about

1102
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:50,279
Speaker 1: how she started. It's been a long road for her.

1103
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 1: She's a young mom, got married young, she started in

1104
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 1: journalism very young, found her passion in college where the

1105
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 1: world opened up for her, and how she worked incredibly

1106
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 1: hard to get to where she is today. And that

1107
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 1: means doing the jobs that no one else wants to do.

1108
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 1: And I mean that that's like the old fashioned way,

1109
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 1: just put in the work. I also love hearing guests

1110
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:17,680
Speaker 1: talk about their celeb inspirations growing up and you know

1111
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 1: how they've become that for others now, and I think

1112
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 1: Kat's very inspirational for people coming up in the journalism,

1113
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 1: you know, space and like, kat Oprah was definitely probably

1114
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 1: one of my very first female idols, honestly, and every

1115
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 1: word she said and still says today, I fall on,

1116
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:38,880
Speaker 1: So I understand that very much. Anyway, if you want

1117
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:41,920
Speaker 1: more climbing and Hill's content, follow me on at Rachel

1118
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,759
Speaker 1: Zoe and at Clymi in Hill's Pod on Instagram for

1119
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 1: our updates and upcoming guest episodes and all things heator

1120
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 1: and I will see you next week