WEBVTT - Get Read for Martial Law (with Joe Walsh) 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:04.440 I'm John Cipher and I'm Jerry O'Shea. I was a 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.840 CIA officer stationed around the world in high threat posts 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:09.520 in Europe, Russia, and in Asia. 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.680 And I served in Africa, Asia, Europe, the Middle East 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:16.840 and in war zones. We sometimes created conspiracies to deceive 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:17.759 our adversaries. 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:21.720 Now we're going to use our expertise to deconstruct conspiracy 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:23.520 theories large and small. 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:26.280 Could they be true? Or are we being manipulated? 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:33.440 This is mission implausible. So today's guest is Joe Walsh. 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:36.880 He's a political commentator and former radio talk show host. 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:39.800 He has a podcast, he's on Substack. He's a regular 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:43.080 on TV. You've probably seen him. He was a politician 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:46.000 who served in Congress as a former TEA Party favorite. 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:48.520 I think even ran for president in you one time. 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:52.200 It was for a brief John, just a brief moment 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:53.760 in time I challenged Trump. 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:54.400 There you go. 0:00:54.480 --> 0:00:57.160 Well it's more than we did, so God bless you. 0:00:57.360 --> 0:00:59.160 So let me start out. One of the things you 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:01.880 do that I think is really impresses is you travel 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:04.959 and speak to groups who don't agree with you around 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:07.880 the country. So how do you engage with people who 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:11.960 espouse conspiracy theories like about the twenty twenty election or 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:14.640 January sixth or Q nine or anything else with that matter. 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:17.759 It ain't easy, John, Jared good to be with you both. 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:20.920 Look and I know you know my history. I used 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:25.000 to be a really divisive politician. I was part of 0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:28.280 the tea party class. I went to DC to raise 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:32.279 hell and burn it all down. I voted for Trump 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:36.440 in twenty sixteen. Boom boh, what was I thinking? And 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:39.800 then in twenty eighteen I came out against him publicly, 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:42.760 took a blow torch to my career, and then I 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:45.800 tried the primary him in twenty twenty. So I'm in 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:50.440 a weird position. Of all the really well known never 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:54.080 trumpers out there, I'm the only one that comes from 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:58.600 the bowels of the Maga basse. I call myself a 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:03.720 reformed maca gang banger. But because I had that start, 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:08.960 I still engage with his supporters every single day. And 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:13.480 because John, like I was really divisive. I think the 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:18.959 countries dangerously divided. People like me help to divide the country. 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:22.959 I'm on a mission the rest of my breathing life 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:27.160 to try to do something about that divide, and so 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:32.520 I engage on a regular basis with Trump's voters, but everybody, 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:33.040 when you. 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:35.520 Engage with them, do you try to change their minds? 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:37.440 Do you try to sympathize? What do you find the 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:40.040 best way to deal with people who really still are 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:40.800 MARGA believers? 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:44.360 You guys are more expert than I am. I will 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:48.320 say publicly when I go on TV that my former 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:52.720 party is a cult. So these folks, most of whom 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:56.400 are good folks, most of whom used to be my supporters, 0:02:56.400 --> 0:03:00.680 they're members of a cult. And so that's my mindset, 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:03.880 John and Jerry going in. I got out of that cult. 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:07.839 I want to try to help them get out. And 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:11.320 I've found that the only way to even have a 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:17.240 shot to do that is to very slowly and respectfully 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:21.160 just continue to put little nuggets of truth in front 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:24.760 of them repeatedly until they're kind of up against a 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:27.320 wall and they don't know where to turn. And I 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:29.480 find that when I can get one of them in 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:34.040 a place like that, then the potential for the light 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:36.520 bulb to go off is there to one. 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:40.560 Extent, Is this something we've always had or this is 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:46.160 something that's being manufactured with entertainment and the news ecosystems 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:48.320 that we live in and the news feeds that we 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:51.040 consume you're on one team or the other. But what 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:52.480 makes what turns it into a cult? 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:56.320 I do think we are dangerously divided, and I felt 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:58.960 this way before Trump got elected. I felt this way 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:01.240 and I said it when I was in Congress back 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:04.920 in twenty ten, twenty twelve. I think America is a 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:07.040 married couple on the verge of a divorce. 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:09.840 I really believe that, and. 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:13.600 I felt that way before Trump. I think Trump is 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:18.320 just like the ugly consequence of being a married couple 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:20.640 on the verge of a divorce. So I think the 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:24.360 divide is there. I think it's real. I think this 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:28.560 two hundred and forty nine year old experiment in awesomeness 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:33.440 is at a weird point. What Trump did was he 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:38.240 took advantage of how divided we are and he fed it. 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:43.640 Some politicians see were divided, were broken, Our social contract 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:47.320 is frayed. Let's try to bring people together. And Trump no, 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:50.320 fuck no, Trump does the opposite. This is how I'm 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:53.040 going to win. I'm going to try to further divide us. 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:56.640 I'm going to get Americans more angry at each other. 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:01.039 So that was something new. And then and I gotta 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:04.400 be honest, We've only got two political parties. I come 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:09.680 from the Republican Party, my former party. I left it 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:14.160 became fully radicalized. I say that often people like me 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:17.520 helped to radicalize them. The Tea Party led to MAGA. 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:22.440 But the base of the Republican Party has always been 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:26.800 primarily middle age, older white people. And these middle age, 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:30.080 older white people, for a long time have felt like 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:36.480 everything's against them. All of our institutions, government, the media, academia, Hollywood, 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:40.359 all left of center, and there's truth in that. So 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:43.800 along comes Trump and he says, man, I'm going to 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:46.599 be your guy. I'm going to go after all these things. 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:49.520 I'm going to go after CNN, They're the enemy of 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:51.720 the people. I'm going to go after Hollywood and all 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:58.200 the rest. And so he enabled this white base to fully, 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:02.080 proudly and loudly come out from under their rock and say, 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:06.359 we are the Republican Party. Finally somebody's listening to me. 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:10.960 We're going to get white Christian nineteen fifty four America. 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:12.839 That's what they say to me. 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:17.080 So when you talk to these groups, the ones that 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:19.080 listen to you and seem to be taking it on, 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:22.320 what is it that resonates. Is there certain issues that 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:24.840 sort of matter to them? Is it the economy? Are 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:28.240 a culture of things? What things? Do They start to say, 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:30.440 I see where you're going to. Maybe maybe I'm willing 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:31.120 to listen more. 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:33.920 So I'm not a Democrat and I'm not a lefty. 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:36.280 And even though I go on MSNBC a lot, I'm 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:40.320 not an MSNBC person. So I come from their family. 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:44.280 I come from Mauga's family. I left the family, and 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:47.480 in a weird way, like they look at me as 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:50.440 a trader because I left the family. But then in 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:53.440 a weird way, they'll listen to me because they know 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:56.960 I'm not of the left. So I have found I 0:06:57.040 --> 0:07:00.680 still have a lot of hate listeners. So there's always 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:04.200 been a curiosity like, I don't get it, Joe, why 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:05.320 don't you like Trump? 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:07.920 Again? And I find that when I. 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:16.040 Focus on relentlessly the rule of law, democracy, you lose 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:19.080 a fucking election, be a man and accept the loss. 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:22.080 Come on, Billy, that's what we do. That's what you 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:23.320 taught your kids to. 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:24.239 Do, right man. 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:28.640 And so it's those kinds of things that kind of 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:32.200 make them feel a little guilty. They know I'm not 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:34.760 like I'm a big gun guy, a big gun rights guy, 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:37.520 so they know I'm not going to come for their guns. 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:41.640 So because they know I'm generally with them on most issues, 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:46.960 they'll listen to why I most opposed Trump because he's 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:49.920 a threat to democracy. And even if they don't agree 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:55.040 with me, these are folks who always claim to adore 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:58.600 the Constitution. That's what the Tea Party was back in 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:03.480 the day. So come on, Steve, you can't send somebody 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:08.800 into a l Salvador jail without any due process. Come on, 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:11.480 that's not right. And I find John when you keep 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:14.480 putting that in front of them, not pounding them over 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:18.720 the head, but just trying to get them to think. Eventually, again, 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:21.640 some of them will stay in dialogue. 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:24.640 The cult thing is interesting. It gets thrown around about 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:26.720 a lot, and I struggle with it whether that's a 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:30.200 good metaphor or not. But when I talk to died 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:34.160 in the world democrats, I'm riding with Biden to hell 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:36.360 or high water, and then you can hear that conversation 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:38.800 about what's good or what's bad about the Democratic Party. 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:42.480 But with mega folks, they find it really hard to 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:46.679 make even one small concession like the ones you've been 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:49.600 talking about Look, I watched January sixth on TV. We 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:51.800 all did like it wasn't a day of love. They 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:54.480 were beating the shit out of policemen. That's never okay, 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:58.400 never okay, beat the shit out of policemen. And yet 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:02.680 getting that extreme, that concession from them is almost impossible. 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:05.000 And for me, that's the cult part. 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:09.319 That's actually a fascinating case study. Because I was thinking 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:13.880 about January sixth, and I've said this before, it was fascinating. 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:21.120 For three maybe four days after January sixth happened, I'm 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:26.760 on conservative talk radio around the country. Trump's most die 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:32.800 hard supporters for three to four days were stunned and 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:37.199 sickened and called in and said, oh my god, Joe, 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:41.960 this is bad. There was a window there where even 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:47.000 his most hardcore folk said nope, nope, nope, And that's 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:53.200 really interesting. Then what happened. Then eventually Republican politicians started 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:57.520 to defend and excuse Trump and Hannity and all the 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:00.679 idiots on Fox News. Boom Boo boo went down the 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:04.319 same road, and I swear to God, within two weeks 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:07.400 all of those hardcore folks were. 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:08.240 Joe yar wrong. 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:11.040 The FBI was behind it. It was the deep state 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:15.520 and they were gone. But there was like without the 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:22.959 media or the Republican bullshitters in their faces, even the cult. 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:24.400 They even thought. 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:27.760 This is bad, which is interesting because that suggests that 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:31.160 a lot of people know what they're saying might not 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:35.800 be fully true. But in another way, it's bad because 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:39.120 it suggests that the hatred for the other side is 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:42.360 so strong that I would rather say something I know 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:46.120 to be false than agree with the other side, like 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:49.480 what Jerry said with Biden. Like Biden was the president, 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:51.360 he brought it at least he brought in some smart people. 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:54.120 But he screwed up Afghanistan. It was a complete debacle. 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:57.960 It was terrible. They provided really poor support and way 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:01.480 too late. I think for Ukraine too old. He should 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:02.959 have left early. He should have just done one to 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:05.440 all those things I can say, and I don't think 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:08.040 of myself as a Democrat or Republican either, but at 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:10.560 least yeah, you don't hear that from the mega side. 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:13.520 Is it because they hate the other side too much? 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:17.679 You know, we lived overseas working for our country, trying 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:21.959 to collect intelligence on Russia, China, Iran terrorists, enemies of 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:24.840 this country. But these people seem to think the enemies 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:27.880 are the other party, not foreigners who want to do 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:28.880 as harm. 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:34.480 It was a perfect storm, a combination of who the 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:40.920 Republican Party base was and how long they felt beaten down, 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:46.240 and then along came this demagogue. I can remember John 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:50.000 and Jerry when Trump first started running in twenty fifteen, 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:53.560 and they had one of the very early debates with 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:56.560 Jeb Bush and my Lil Marco and all those nuts. 0:11:57.120 --> 0:11:59.440 And I remember again, I'm on the radio, I'm on 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:05.360 Fox New and all the smart Republican establishment people. Every 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:09.240 time Trump would talk and he'd say crazy, stupid shit, 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:12.959 all the Republican establishment people would say to me, Joe, 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:14.079 this is a fucking joke. 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:15.880 He's done. 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:20.559 But at the exact same time, his voters, my listeners, 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:24.760 my supporters were eating up everything he was saying. So 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:27.120 right away then I knew there was something different that 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:29.640 was going on. I think this had been building for 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:35.640 a long time, the Republican Party establishment, and I wasn't 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:36.080 part of it. 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:36.800 They hated me. 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:42.760 They ignored their base forever, and their base has always 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:49.679 been really scared about the changing country, the changing demographics, 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:55.240 the browning and blacking of America, the open borders, legit 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:59.400 concerns where you need to sit these folks down and 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:04.120 educate them and tell them how we welcome all God's children, white, 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:07.920 black and brown. But they had real concerns about the 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:13.000 changing face of America. The party establishment just ignored them. 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:17.320 And then along came tea party people like me, and 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:18.480 we inflamed them. 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:20.199 So by the. 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:24.280 Time Trump came along, and he came down that escalator 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:28.920 and he said, I'm gonna build a fucking wall, a wall. 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:31.600 Remember how stupid that first was when he said it, 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:34.440 And I'm going to keep brown and black people out. 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:37.800 And everybody laughed, except for Republican voters. 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:38.360 They loved it. 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:43.240 To them, he was the first one, after fifty years, 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:47.600 who had heard their concerns. But they dug their finger 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:50.800 claws into him at that moment and they've never let go. 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:54.079 So let's take a break to be back in a 0:13:54.160 --> 0:14:04.160 Roman I struggle with things like like Russia. So just 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:07.120 today it's out in the press that the Ed Martin, 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:09.360 the guy who's up to be district attorney for DC 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:15.640 guy just somehow forgot that he appeared on Russian television 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:19.240 one hundred and fifty times and never mentioned it. To Congress. Oh, 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:22.480 is that a problem that Artie is an arm of 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:26.520 the Russian intelligence services and Russian propagama machines. And how 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:30.080 is this being accepted? Like the Russians are the bad guys, 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:31.880 at least they were. And so you've talked to a 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:34.280 lot of people, how did they square that circle? 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:41.280 Part of it is because Trump's siding with Putin, because Trump, so, Joe, 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:43.800 let's not question it. I get a lot of that 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:48.080 the other aspect, and I think you'll find this in 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:51.080 our history. And I come from the right. Look, the 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:58.280 left has their issues, but there's always been a desire. 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:00.360 For a strong man on the right. 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:05.360 The right in America has always been more susceptible to 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:09.760 authoritarian guys. When I was in Congress, I was the 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:13.600 poorest member of Congress if I had a dollar over 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:17.040 the last seven years, for every time a Trump supporter 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:22.320 said to me, Joe, I don't mind that Trump's acting 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:25.680 like a dictator, as long as he's given us back 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:29.360 the stuff we need, as long as he's bringing America back. 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:33.560 So part of it is a yearning for an America 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:36.800 where men were men, women were women, and men married 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:39.720 women and women married men. And Oh, by the way, 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:43.480 there was that plant in town where my dad worked, 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:49.400 and everything's changed, and we forget so many of us 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:55.280 forget that even twelve years ago, Barack Obama and Hillary 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:59.000 Clinton opposed same sex marriage. So to the base, to 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:02.920 the Republican bay, this shit's been changing in a nanosecond. 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:07.000 And so then you combine that with what I've found, 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:12.320 which is they're yearning to have a strong man deliver 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:16.880 that America back to them. I say often my party, 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:20.800 they've given up on democracy. They call him the cult. 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:24.200 I think it's an authoritarian, embracing cult. They want a 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:28.080 strong man to deliver a certain America back. That then 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:33.240 extends to Putin, it extends to Erdawan, it extends to 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:37.080 strong men around the world, who, by the way, Trump 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:42.360 has an affiliation with, and Trump knows that his base 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:46.360 is very open to authoritarianism. 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:50.880 I do think there's something in our country about masculinity 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:54.080 in America. What's happening to young men and what I 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:56.360 see about you and I see with Adam Kinsinger and 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:58.800 some other people. They seem to be having some sort 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:03.160 of impact on the mega folks because they talk like, 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:05.719 you know, again, I'm a sixty year old white guy too. 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:07.639 You know, I played sports and got in fights and 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:10.960 stuff like, man up, man, what you're doing is wrong, 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:14.679 get your shit together, like I think in some sense, 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:19.440 people want someone who has occured to their conviction, says 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:22.200 thing they believe. It sounds like when you first talked 0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:25.679 answered the first question you said, you're having an impact 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:28.359 when you say to someone that's wrong, man up. Like 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:30.480 that seems Oh, I get that. Like you're asking me 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:33.720 to tough en up. You're right, John, I think that's right. 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:36.800 I think that's perceptive. I certainly don't fucking talk like 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:42.400 a normal politician. There's a yearning for authenticity in our politics. 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:45.159 It's been there now for a while. Trump gives the 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:48.760 illusion that he's authentic, which is bullshit because every word 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:49.160 out of his. 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:52.159 Mouth is a lie. But there's a yearning for that. 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:55.720 This is the democrats big problem. They all sound like 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:59.879 fucking politicians, and many of their male politicians sound like 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:05.160 absolute whossies. It's a weird thing in that Trump's support 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:10.040 among young men has really grown. It's a scary thing. 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:13.480 And they listen to a lot of these podcasters like 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:17.199 Joe Rogan and some of these other bros. There's a 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:21.640 real problem, you guys, know, disinformation and lies that are 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:24.679 spread out there. I believe in the marketplace, I believe 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:28.680 in a million different places to go get informed. But man, 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:32.440 what a dangerous world it is because you listen, if 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:34.439 you get your news from a Joe Rogan or a 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:36.440 Tucker Carlson, Hello. 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:36.840 You're done. 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:40.760 But yet they give the appearance of being tough guys. 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:42.640 Tough guys. Are they tough guys? 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:44.440 Though? Like I see jd Vance and I think of 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:47.639 a high school loser, like I like it a musk. 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:51.680 Is he really a masculine tough guy? Tryump? They look 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:53.920 like weenies to me. And people are act like they're 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:54.800 the toughest guys going. 0:18:54.920 --> 0:19:00.400 They're the antithesis of what strong men should be. They lie, 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:05.120 they cheat, their corrupt, They never take responsibility for anything 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:10.120 they ever do wrong. That's not masculine. But they don't 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:14.119 give the appearance of being nerds. They give the appearance 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:17.200 of being tough guys. And a lot of it is 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:22.320 just through the smoke that they blow this disinformation. It's 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:26.720 a real issue, and I'd argue that we've I think 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:30.000 so much of this is just the pendulum swinging. We 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:33.639 shit on men like a little bit and kind of 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:37.160 shit on young white men a little bit, all good stuff, 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:40.439 and we need equal opportunity for black men and brown 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:44.480 women and everybody. But there's been a backlash because I 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:47.560 think certain elements of the left push too hard on 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:50.720 some of this shit, and along comes Trump and says, 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:53.920 I'm gonna boom, I'm gonna get us back. So Trump's 0:19:53.920 --> 0:19:57.720 now going to be a dangerous overreaction in the other side. 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:01.680 But we're living in a po feelus moment, and all 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:05.320 that means to me is we need politicians who are fighters. 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:08.960 Trump gives the impression of being a fighter and his 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:11.800 people do even though John I agree with you, they're 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:13.560 bullies and bullies are cowards. 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:16.480 What's your sense now, of course this can change. What 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:19.920 are the sort of the ultimate thols of politics now, 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:23.280 especially on the right. Right now we're racing towards are 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:26.639 already they're a face off with the Supreme Court. Is 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:30.399 there a plan do you think inside of like the 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:32.840 coterie of folks inside of the White House or inside 0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:35.720 of Manga Republic Party to like to break that. It's 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:39.200 like we're going to go like we're going to disengage 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:42.040 from the judicial system, and we're going to disengage from 0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:44.760 fair elections. Where does that go? Where does it take us? 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:49.080 Let me sound like a conspiracist. I think the greatest 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:52.960 failure of this Trump era to steal the nine to 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:56.960 eleven commissions phrase, has been a failure of imagination. Yes, 0:20:57.119 --> 0:21:01.639 I think that we have not imagined how far Trump 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:04.520 would go, how bad he would get. If us three 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:07.520 old white dudes were sitting around twenty years ago talking 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:11.000 and I'd have told you, you know what, there's gonna 0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:14.280 be an American president one day soon who's going to 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:17.359 lose an election, and son of a gun, he's not 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:18.439 gonna accept the result. 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:19.840 Nope, first time he's not. 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:20.200 Gonna do it. 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:22.720 And then you know what, John and Jerry, he's gonna 0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:27.040 commit crimes trying to overthrow an American election. You guys 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:30.600 would have thought I was smoking something. He did that 0:21:30.600 --> 0:21:33.520 that all happened. So are there going to be midterm 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:34.480 elections next year? 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:37.520 I don't know. Put a gun to my head, I 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:38.600 won't say there will be. 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:46.200 I firmly believe knowing people around Trump, they are licking 0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:54.000 their chops at the opportunity to use the military, law enforcement, 0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:59.879 and the military against Americans. On the streets because they 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:04.960 are hoping and anticipating these protests are going to grow 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:10.480 and maybe get violent, and they are just dying to 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:15.879 stomp down on them. Declare martial law, invoke the Insurrection Act, 0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:19.119 and if things don't look good in twenty six for Republicans, 0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:23.000 the tyrant will come out and say, Nope, no elections now. 0:22:23.320 --> 0:22:27.359 So crazy talk. I just think you gotta prepare for it. 0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:34.159 The jackass is beyond joking about running again in twenty 0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:37.639 twenty eight. Go ahead and don't take him seriously if 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:38.160 you don't want. 0:22:38.920 --> 0:22:42.199 Wow, that's scary, And I think there's true. I mean 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:45.360 he's attacking law firms, he's attacking anyone that can hold 0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:50.800 him accountable, attacking institutions, education, all those things, and so 0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:52.959 it is a real threat. 0:22:53.560 --> 0:22:54.200 Do they have a plan? 0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:58.840 That's true. That's the thing is the way he's totally 0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:02.520 fumbled the economy. He suggests to me that he likes 0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:04.960 people coming to him, he likes being in charge, but 0:23:05.040 --> 0:23:07.440 he actually is not very smart and not thinking ahead 0:23:07.520 --> 0:23:09.320 very fast. Yes, he wants to be the strong man, 0:23:09.359 --> 0:23:11.920 but if he's blowing the economy in the process, is 0:23:11.960 --> 0:23:14.680 he at a risk of losing those people? He would 0:23:14.720 --> 0:23:15.960 need to support him. 0:23:16.000 --> 0:23:20.000 Like Trump, doesn't believe in many things except for Trump, 0:23:20.840 --> 0:23:24.000 but he believes in two things, both of which should 0:23:24.000 --> 0:23:29.520 scare us. He I'll say it, he adores Putin. I'll 0:23:29.560 --> 0:23:32.800 say it. He's a fucking Russian asset. And if he's 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:36.639 not man, he's the most effective non Russian asset. 0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:37.320 That's ever lived. 0:23:37.640 --> 0:23:43.400