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Speaker 1: I'm John Cipher and I'm Jerry O'Shea. I was a

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Speaker 1: CIA officer stationed around the world in high threat posts

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Speaker 1: in Europe, Russia, and in Asia.

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Speaker 2: And I served in Africa, Asia, Europe, the Middle East

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Speaker 2: and in war zones. We sometimes created conspiracies to deceive

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Speaker 2: our adversaries.

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Speaker 1: Now we're going to use our expertise to deconstruct conspiracy

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Speaker 1: theories large and small.

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Speaker 2: Could they be true? Or are we being manipulated?

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Speaker 1: This is mission implausible. So today's guest is Joe Walsh.

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Speaker 1: He's a political commentator and former radio talk show host.

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Speaker 1: He has a podcast, he's on Substack. He's a regular

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Speaker 1: on TV. You've probably seen him. He was a politician

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Speaker 1: who served in Congress as a former TEA Party favorite.

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Speaker 1: I think even ran for president in you one time.

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Speaker 3: It was for a brief John, just a brief moment

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Speaker 3: in time I challenged Trump.

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Speaker 2: There you go.

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Speaker 1: Well it's more than we did, so God bless you.

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Speaker 1: So let me start out. One of the things you

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Speaker 1: do that I think is really impresses is you travel

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Speaker 1: and speak to groups who don't agree with you around

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Speaker 1: the country. So how do you engage with people who

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Speaker 1: espouse conspiracy theories like about the twenty twenty election or

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Speaker 1: January sixth or Q nine or anything else with that matter.

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Speaker 3: It ain't easy, John, Jared good to be with you both.

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Speaker 3: Look and I know you know my history. I used

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Speaker 3: to be a really divisive politician. I was part of

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Speaker 3: the tea party class. I went to DC to raise

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Speaker 3: hell and burn it all down. I voted for Trump

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Speaker 3: in twenty sixteen. Boom boh, what was I thinking? And

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Speaker 3: then in twenty eighteen I came out against him publicly,

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Speaker 3: took a blow torch to my career, and then I

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Speaker 3: tried the primary him in twenty twenty. So I'm in

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Speaker 3: a weird position. Of all the really well known never

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Speaker 3: trumpers out there, I'm the only one that comes from

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Speaker 3: the bowels of the Maga basse. I call myself a

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Speaker 3: reformed maca gang banger. But because I had that start,

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Speaker 3: I still engage with his supporters every single day. And

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Speaker 3: because John, like I was really divisive. I think the

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Speaker 3: countries dangerously divided. People like me help to divide the country.

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Speaker 3: I'm on a mission the rest of my breathing life

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Speaker 3: to try to do something about that divide, and so

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Speaker 3: I engage on a regular basis with Trump's voters, but everybody,

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Speaker 3: when you.

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Speaker 1: Engage with them, do you try to change their minds?

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Speaker 1: Do you try to sympathize? What do you find the

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Speaker 1: best way to deal with people who really still are

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Speaker 1: MARGA believers?

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Speaker 3: You guys are more expert than I am. I will

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Speaker 3: say publicly when I go on TV that my former

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Speaker 3: party is a cult. So these folks, most of whom

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Speaker 3: are good folks, most of whom used to be my supporters,

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Speaker 3: they're members of a cult. And so that's my mindset,

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Speaker 3: John and Jerry going in. I got out of that cult.

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Speaker 3: I want to try to help them get out. And

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Speaker 3: I've found that the only way to even have a

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Speaker 3: shot to do that is to very slowly and respectfully

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Speaker 3: just continue to put little nuggets of truth in front

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Speaker 3: of them repeatedly until they're kind of up against a

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Speaker 3: wall and they don't know where to turn. And I

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Speaker 3: find that when I can get one of them in

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Speaker 3: a place like that, then the potential for the light

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Speaker 3: bulb to go off is there to one.

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Speaker 2: Extent, Is this something we've always had or this is

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Speaker 2: something that's being manufactured with entertainment and the news ecosystems

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Speaker 2: that we live in and the news feeds that we

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Speaker 2: consume you're on one team or the other. But what

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Speaker 2: makes what turns it into a cult?

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Speaker 3: I do think we are dangerously divided, and I felt

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Speaker 3: this way before Trump got elected. I felt this way

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Speaker 3: and I said it when I was in Congress back

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Speaker 3: in twenty ten, twenty twelve. I think America is a

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Speaker 3: married couple on the verge of a divorce.

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Speaker 4: I really believe that, and.

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Speaker 3: I felt that way before Trump. I think Trump is

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Speaker 3: just like the ugly consequence of being a married couple

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Speaker 3: on the verge of a divorce. So I think the

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Speaker 3: divide is there. I think it's real. I think this

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Speaker 3: two hundred and forty nine year old experiment in awesomeness

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Speaker 3: is at a weird point. What Trump did was he

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Speaker 3: took advantage of how divided we are and he fed it.

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Speaker 3: Some politicians see were divided, were broken, Our social contract

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Speaker 3: is frayed. Let's try to bring people together. And Trump no,

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Speaker 3: fuck no, Trump does the opposite. This is how I'm

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Speaker 3: going to win. I'm going to try to further divide us.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to get Americans more angry at each other.

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Speaker 3: So that was something new. And then and I gotta

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Speaker 3: be honest, We've only got two political parties. I come

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Speaker 3: from the Republican Party, my former party. I left it

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Speaker 3: became fully radicalized. I say that often people like me

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Speaker 3: helped to radicalize them. The Tea Party led to MAGA.

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Speaker 3: But the base of the Republican Party has always been

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Speaker 3: primarily middle age, older white people. And these middle age,

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Speaker 3: older white people, for a long time have felt like

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Speaker 3: everything's against them. All of our institutions, government, the media, academia, Hollywood,

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Speaker 3: all left of center, and there's truth in that. So

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Speaker 3: along comes Trump and he says, man, I'm going to

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Speaker 3: be your guy. I'm going to go after all these things.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to go after CNN, They're the enemy of

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Speaker 3: the people. I'm going to go after Hollywood and all

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Speaker 3: the rest. And so he enabled this white base to fully,

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Speaker 3: proudly and loudly come out from under their rock and say,

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Speaker 3: we are the Republican Party. Finally somebody's listening to me.

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Speaker 3: We're going to get white Christian nineteen fifty four America.

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Speaker 3: That's what they say to me.

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Speaker 1: So when you talk to these groups, the ones that

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Speaker 1: listen to you and seem to be taking it on,

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Speaker 1: what is it that resonates. Is there certain issues that

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Speaker 1: sort of matter to them? Is it the economy? Are

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Speaker 1: a culture of things? What things? Do They start to say,

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Speaker 1: I see where you're going to. Maybe maybe I'm willing

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Speaker 1: to listen more.

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Speaker 3: So I'm not a Democrat and I'm not a lefty.

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Speaker 3: And even though I go on MSNBC a lot, I'm

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Speaker 3: not an MSNBC person. So I come from their family.

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Speaker 3: I come from Mauga's family. I left the family, and

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Speaker 3: in a weird way, like they look at me as

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Speaker 3: a trader because I left the family. But then in

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Speaker 3: a weird way, they'll listen to me because they know

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Speaker 3: I'm not of the left. So I have found I

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Speaker 3: still have a lot of hate listeners. So there's always

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Speaker 3: been a curiosity like, I don't get it, Joe, why

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Speaker 3: don't you like Trump?

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Speaker 4: Again? And I find that when I.

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Speaker 3: Focus on relentlessly the rule of law, democracy, you lose

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Speaker 3: a fucking election, be a man and accept the loss.

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Speaker 3: Come on, Billy, that's what we do. That's what you

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Speaker 3: taught your kids to.

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Speaker 4: Do, right man.

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Speaker 3: And so it's those kinds of things that kind of

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Speaker 3: make them feel a little guilty. They know I'm not

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Speaker 3: like I'm a big gun guy, a big gun rights guy,

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Speaker 3: so they know I'm not going to come for their guns.

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Speaker 3: So because they know I'm generally with them on most issues,

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Speaker 3: they'll listen to why I most opposed Trump because he's

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Speaker 3: a threat to democracy. And even if they don't agree

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Speaker 3: with me, these are folks who always claim to adore

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Speaker 3: the Constitution. That's what the Tea Party was back in

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Speaker 3: the day. So come on, Steve, you can't send somebody

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Speaker 3: into a l Salvador jail without any due process. Come on,

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Speaker 3: that's not right. And I find John when you keep

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Speaker 3: putting that in front of them, not pounding them over

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Speaker 3: the head, but just trying to get them to think. Eventually, again,

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Speaker 3: some of them will stay in dialogue.

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Speaker 2: The cult thing is interesting. It gets thrown around about

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Speaker 2: a lot, and I struggle with it whether that's a

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Speaker 2: good metaphor or not. But when I talk to died

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Speaker 2: in the world democrats, I'm riding with Biden to hell

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Speaker 2: or high water, and then you can hear that conversation

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Speaker 2: about what's good or what's bad about the Democratic Party.

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Speaker 2: But with mega folks, they find it really hard to

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Speaker 2: make even one small concession like the ones you've been

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Speaker 2: talking about Look, I watched January sixth on TV. We

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Speaker 2: all did like it wasn't a day of love. They

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Speaker 2: were beating the shit out of policemen. That's never okay,

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Speaker 2: never okay, beat the shit out of policemen. And yet

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Speaker 2: getting that extreme, that concession from them is almost impossible.

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Speaker 2: And for me, that's the cult part.

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Speaker 3: That's actually a fascinating case study. Because I was thinking

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Speaker 3: about January sixth, and I've said this before, it was fascinating.

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Speaker 3: For three maybe four days after January sixth happened, I'm

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Speaker 3: on conservative talk radio around the country. Trump's most die

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Speaker 3: hard supporters for three to four days were stunned and

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Speaker 3: sickened and called in and said, oh my god, Joe,

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Speaker 3: this is bad. There was a window there where even

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Speaker 3: his most hardcore folk said nope, nope, nope, And that's

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Speaker 3: really interesting. Then what happened. Then eventually Republican politicians started

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Speaker 3: to defend and excuse Trump and Hannity and all the

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Speaker 3: idiots on Fox News. Boom Boo boo went down the

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Speaker 3: same road, and I swear to God, within two weeks

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Speaker 3: all of those hardcore folks were.

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Speaker 4: Joe yar wrong.

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Speaker 3: The FBI was behind it. It was the deep state

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Speaker 3: and they were gone. But there was like without the

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Speaker 3: media or the Republican bullshitters in their faces, even the cult.

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Speaker 4: They even thought.

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Speaker 1: This is bad, which is interesting because that suggests that

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Speaker 1: a lot of people know what they're saying might not

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Speaker 1: be fully true. But in another way, it's bad because

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Speaker 1: it suggests that the hatred for the other side is

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Speaker 1: so strong that I would rather say something I know

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Speaker 1: to be false than agree with the other side, like

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Speaker 1: what Jerry said with Biden. Like Biden was the president,

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Speaker 1: he brought it at least he brought in some smart people.

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Speaker 1: But he screwed up Afghanistan. It was a complete debacle.

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Speaker 1: It was terrible. They provided really poor support and way

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Speaker 1: too late. I think for Ukraine too old. He should

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Speaker 1: have left early. He should have just done one to

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Speaker 1: all those things I can say, and I don't think

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Speaker 1: of myself as a Democrat or Republican either, but at

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Speaker 1: least yeah, you don't hear that from the mega side.

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Speaker 1: Is it because they hate the other side too much?

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Speaker 1: You know, we lived overseas working for our country, trying

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Speaker 1: to collect intelligence on Russia, China, Iran terrorists, enemies of

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Speaker 1: this country. But these people seem to think the enemies

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Speaker 1: are the other party, not foreigners who want to do

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Speaker 1: as harm.

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Speaker 3: It was a perfect storm, a combination of who the

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Speaker 3: Republican Party base was and how long they felt beaten down,

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Speaker 3: and then along came this demagogue. I can remember John

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Speaker 3: and Jerry when Trump first started running in twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 3: and they had one of the very early debates with

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Speaker 3: Jeb Bush and my Lil Marco and all those nuts.

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Speaker 3: And I remember again, I'm on the radio, I'm on

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Speaker 3: Fox New and all the smart Republican establishment people. Every

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Speaker 3: time Trump would talk and he'd say crazy, stupid shit,

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Speaker 3: all the Republican establishment people would say to me, Joe,

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Speaker 3: this is a fucking joke.

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Speaker 4: He's done.

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Speaker 3: But at the exact same time, his voters, my listeners,

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Speaker 3: my supporters were eating up everything he was saying. So

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Speaker 3: right away then I knew there was something different that

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Speaker 3: was going on. I think this had been building for

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Speaker 3: a long time, the Republican Party establishment, and I wasn't

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Speaker 3: part of it.

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Speaker 4: They hated me.

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Speaker 3: They ignored their base forever, and their base has always

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Speaker 3: been really scared about the changing country, the changing demographics,

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Speaker 3: the browning and blacking of America, the open borders, legit

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Speaker 3: concerns where you need to sit these folks down and

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Speaker 3: educate them and tell them how we welcome all God's children, white,

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Speaker 3: black and brown. But they had real concerns about the

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Speaker 3: changing face of America. The party establishment just ignored them.

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Speaker 3: And then along came tea party people like me, and

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Speaker 3: we inflamed them.

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Speaker 4: So by the.

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Speaker 3: Time Trump came along, and he came down that escalator

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Speaker 3: and he said, I'm gonna build a fucking wall, a wall.

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Speaker 3: Remember how stupid that first was when he said it,

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Speaker 3: And I'm going to keep brown and black people out.

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Speaker 3: And everybody laughed, except for Republican voters.

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Speaker 4: They loved it.

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Speaker 3: To them, he was the first one, after fifty years,

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Speaker 3: who had heard their concerns. But they dug their finger

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Speaker 3: claws into him at that moment and they've never let go.

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Speaker 2: So let's take a break to be back in a

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Speaker 2: Roman I struggle with things like like Russia. So just

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Speaker 2: today it's out in the press that the Ed Martin,

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Speaker 2: the guy who's up to be district attorney for DC

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Speaker 2: guy just somehow forgot that he appeared on Russian television

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Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty times and never mentioned it. To Congress. Oh,

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Speaker 2: is that a problem that Artie is an arm of

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Speaker 2: the Russian intelligence services and Russian propagama machines. And how

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Speaker 2: is this being accepted? Like the Russians are the bad guys,

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Speaker 2: at least they were. And so you've talked to a

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Speaker 2: lot of people, how did they square that circle?

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Speaker 3: Part of it is because Trump's siding with Putin, because Trump, so, Joe,

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Speaker 3: let's not question it. I get a lot of that

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Speaker 3: the other aspect, and I think you'll find this in

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Speaker 3: our history. And I come from the right. Look, the

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Speaker 3: left has their issues, but there's always been a desire.

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Speaker 4: For a strong man on the right.

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Speaker 3: The right in America has always been more susceptible to

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Speaker 3: authoritarian guys. When I was in Congress, I was the

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Speaker 3: poorest member of Congress if I had a dollar over

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Speaker 3: the last seven years, for every time a Trump supporter

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Speaker 3: said to me, Joe, I don't mind that Trump's acting

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Speaker 3: like a dictator, as long as he's given us back

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Speaker 3: the stuff we need, as long as he's bringing America back.

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Speaker 3: So part of it is a yearning for an America

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Speaker 3: where men were men, women were women, and men married

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Speaker 3: women and women married men. And Oh, by the way,

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Speaker 3: there was that plant in town where my dad worked,

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Speaker 3: and everything's changed, and we forget so many of us

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Speaker 3: forget that even twelve years ago, Barack Obama and Hillary

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Speaker 3: Clinton opposed same sex marriage. So to the base, to

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Speaker 3: the Republican bay, this shit's been changing in a nanosecond.

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Speaker 3: And so then you combine that with what I've found,

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Speaker 3: which is they're yearning to have a strong man deliver

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Speaker 3: that America back to them. I say often my party,

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Speaker 3: they've given up on democracy. They call him the cult.

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Speaker 3: I think it's an authoritarian, embracing cult. They want a

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Speaker 3: strong man to deliver a certain America back. That then

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Speaker 3: extends to Putin, it extends to Erdawan, it extends to

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Speaker 3: strong men around the world, who, by the way, Trump

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Speaker 3: has an affiliation with, and Trump knows that his base

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Speaker 3: is very open to authoritarianism.

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Speaker 1: I do think there's something in our country about masculinity

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Speaker 1: in America. What's happening to young men and what I

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Speaker 1: see about you and I see with Adam Kinsinger and

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Speaker 1: some other people. They seem to be having some sort

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Speaker 1: of impact on the mega folks because they talk like,

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Speaker 1: you know, again, I'm a sixty year old white guy too.

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Speaker 1: You know, I played sports and got in fights and

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Speaker 1: stuff like, man up, man, what you're doing is wrong,

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Speaker 1: get your shit together, like I think in some sense,

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Speaker 1: people want someone who has occured to their conviction, says

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Speaker 1: thing they believe. It sounds like when you first talked

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Speaker 1: answered the first question you said, you're having an impact

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Speaker 1: when you say to someone that's wrong, man up. Like

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Speaker 1: that seems Oh, I get that. Like you're asking me

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Speaker 1: to tough en up. You're right, John, I think that's right.

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Speaker 1: I think that's perceptive. I certainly don't fucking talk like

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Speaker 1: a normal politician. There's a yearning for authenticity in our politics.

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Speaker 1: It's been there now for a while. Trump gives the

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Speaker 1: illusion that he's authentic, which is bullshit because every word

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Speaker 1: out of his.

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Speaker 3: Mouth is a lie. But there's a yearning for that.

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Speaker 3: This is the democrats big problem. They all sound like

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Speaker 3: fucking politicians, and many of their male politicians sound like

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Speaker 3: absolute whossies. It's a weird thing in that Trump's support

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Speaker 3: among young men has really grown. It's a scary thing.

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Speaker 3: And they listen to a lot of these podcasters like

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Speaker 3: Joe Rogan and some of these other bros. There's a

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Speaker 3: real problem, you guys, know, disinformation and lies that are

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Speaker 3: spread out there. I believe in the marketplace, I believe

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Speaker 3: in a million different places to go get informed. But man,

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Speaker 3: what a dangerous world it is because you listen, if

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Speaker 3: you get your news from a Joe Rogan or a

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Speaker 3: Tucker Carlson, Hello.

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Speaker 4: You're done.

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Speaker 3: But yet they give the appearance of being tough guys.

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Speaker 3: Tough guys. Are they tough guys?

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Speaker 1: Though? Like I see jd Vance and I think of

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Speaker 1: a high school loser, like I like it a musk.

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Speaker 1: Is he really a masculine tough guy? Tryump? They look

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Speaker 1: like weenies to me. And people are act like they're

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Speaker 1: the toughest guys going.

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Speaker 3: They're the antithesis of what strong men should be. They lie,

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Speaker 3: they cheat, their corrupt, They never take responsibility for anything

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Speaker 3: they ever do wrong. That's not masculine. But they don't

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Speaker 3: give the appearance of being nerds. They give the appearance

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Speaker 3: of being tough guys. And a lot of it is

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Speaker 3: just through the smoke that they blow this disinformation. It's

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Speaker 3: a real issue, and I'd argue that we've I think

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Speaker 3: so much of this is just the pendulum swinging. We

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Speaker 3: shit on men like a little bit and kind of

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Speaker 3: shit on young white men a little bit, all good stuff,

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Speaker 3: and we need equal opportunity for black men and brown

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Speaker 3: women and everybody. But there's been a backlash because I

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Speaker 3: think certain elements of the left push too hard on

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Speaker 3: some of this shit, and along comes Trump and says,

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna boom, I'm gonna get us back. So Trump's

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Speaker 3: now going to be a dangerous overreaction in the other side.

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Speaker 3: But we're living in a po feelus moment, and all

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Speaker 3: that means to me is we need politicians who are fighters.

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Speaker 3: Trump gives the impression of being a fighter and his

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Speaker 3: people do even though John I agree with you, they're

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Speaker 3: bullies and bullies are cowards.

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Speaker 2: What's your sense now, of course this can change. What

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Speaker 2: are the sort of the ultimate thols of politics now,

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Speaker 2: especially on the right. Right now we're racing towards are

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Speaker 2: already they're a face off with the Supreme Court. Is

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Speaker 2: there a plan do you think inside of like the

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Speaker 2: coterie of folks inside of the White House or inside

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Speaker 2: of Manga Republic Party to like to break that. It's

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Speaker 2: like we're going to go like we're going to disengage

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Speaker 2: from the judicial system, and we're going to disengage from

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Speaker 2: fair elections. Where does that go? Where does it take us?

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Speaker 3: Let me sound like a conspiracist. I think the greatest

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Speaker 3: failure of this Trump era to steal the nine to

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Speaker 3: eleven commissions phrase, has been a failure of imagination. Yes,

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Speaker 3: I think that we have not imagined how far Trump

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Speaker 3: would go, how bad he would get. If us three

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Speaker 3: old white dudes were sitting around twenty years ago talking

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Speaker 3: and I'd have told you, you know what, there's gonna

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Speaker 3: be an American president one day soon who's going to

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Speaker 3: lose an election, and son of a gun, he's not

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Speaker 3: gonna accept the result.

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Speaker 4: Nope, first time he's not.

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Speaker 2: Gonna do it.

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Speaker 3: And then you know what, John and Jerry, he's gonna

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Speaker 3: commit crimes trying to overthrow an American election. You guys

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Speaker 3: would have thought I was smoking something. He did that

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Speaker 3: that all happened. So are there going to be midterm

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Speaker 3: elections next year?

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Speaker 4: I don't know. Put a gun to my head, I

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Speaker 4: won't say there will be.

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Speaker 3: I firmly believe knowing people around Trump, they are licking

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Speaker 3: their chops at the opportunity to use the military, law enforcement,

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Speaker 3: and the military against Americans. On the streets because they

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Speaker 3: are hoping and anticipating these protests are going to grow

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Speaker 3: and maybe get violent, and they are just dying to

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Speaker 3: stomp down on them. Declare martial law, invoke the Insurrection Act,

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Speaker 3: and if things don't look good in twenty six for Republicans,

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Speaker 3: the tyrant will come out and say, Nope, no elections now.

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Speaker 3: So crazy talk. I just think you gotta prepare for it.

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Speaker 3: The jackass is beyond joking about running again in twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty eight. Go ahead and don't take him seriously if

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Speaker 3: you don't want.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that's scary, And I think there's true. I mean

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Speaker 1: he's attacking law firms, he's attacking anyone that can hold

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Speaker 1: him accountable, attacking institutions, education, all those things, and so

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Speaker 1: it is a real threat.

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Speaker 2: Do they have a plan?

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Speaker 1: That's true. That's the thing is the way he's totally

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Speaker 1: fumbled the economy. He suggests to me that he likes

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Speaker 1: people coming to him, he likes being in charge, but

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Speaker 1: he actually is not very smart and not thinking ahead

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Speaker 1: very fast. Yes, he wants to be the strong man,

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Speaker 1: but if he's blowing the economy in the process, is

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Speaker 1: he at a risk of losing those people? He would

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Speaker 1: need to support him.

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Speaker 3: Like Trump, doesn't believe in many things except for Trump,

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Speaker 3: but he believes in two things, both of which should

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Speaker 3: scare us. He I'll say it, he adores Putin. I'll

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Speaker 3: say it. He's a fucking Russian asset. And if he's

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Speaker 3: not man, he's the most effective non Russian asset.

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Speaker 4: That's ever lived.

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Speaker 3: His devotion to carrying out Putin's agenda has always been there.

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Speaker 3: And the second thing he's always believed in is tariffs

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Speaker 3: from the time he was a young man. People who

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Speaker 3: are with him believe that he believes with these tariffs

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Speaker 3: there will be some a short term, but he really

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Speaker 3: believes this will get to the other side and things

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Speaker 3: will be great. Most people around him are poor tariffs,

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Speaker 3: and they're trying to talk him off that ledge. That's

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Speaker 3: one issue that could mess up his plans. But play

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Speaker 3: the devil's advocate and running with conspiracies. If I were

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Speaker 3: a conspirator, tariffs are actually a great way of exercising

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Speaker 3: power because you can pick favorites and punish enemies for corruption,

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Speaker 3: you get exactly right, corruption your ability to exercise power.

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Speaker 3: Support me, you know, elon Musk, give me a quarter

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Speaker 3: of a billion dollars and I'll support Tesla one thing.

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Speaker 3: When we were on the inside at CIA, you know,

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Speaker 3: CIA does not engage in economic espions.

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Speaker 2: We don't do it. And one of the reasons we

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Speaker 2: don't do it is say we get a revolutionary new

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Speaker 2: widget that the Germans built, Right, we steal it from

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Speaker 2: somehow for some reason. Who do we give it to? Right?

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Speaker 2: Which US company? Right? We can't favor one over the other.

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Speaker 2: And when I saw Trump just with Tesla vehicles in

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Speaker 2: front of the White House doing this, you know that's

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Speaker 2: corruption right now, if he had different there were different

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Speaker 2: US car makers, that would be different, but just favoring

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Speaker 2: one over the other. But that's power. And the other

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Speaker 2: conspiracy is the press too, is I don't know. You

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Speaker 2: look at Fox News and we're not really having all

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Speaker 2: that big of an economic problem, right, I mean, it's

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Speaker 2: only twenty percenty or four oh one case gone, like

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Speaker 2: that's not a big deal. Who cares, right?

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Speaker 3: But it is interesting though Trump lies as he breathes.

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Speaker 3: He can lie about anything and everybody believes him. He'll

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Speaker 3: have a more difficult time lying about the economy because

436
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 3: we all live it. And even Fox News is going

437
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 3: to eventually maybe have to report it. I think the

438
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 3: only conspiratorial mindset that's in the White House right now

439
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 3: is they want an absolute lock on power. They don't

440
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 3: want to lose the twenty six elections. They'll do anything

441
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 3: to prevent the elections from happening being fair. And they

442
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 3: really do want violence on the streets. That's part of

443
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 3: their equation. They're hoping that happens.

444
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: I don't disagree with you. I don't know. At least

445
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: the national security area that Jerry and I worked in

446
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 1: the FBI, the DoD see this way, the culture was

447
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: such that I don't think people would follow illegal orders.

448
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: Now that may change. They may have pushed it through.

449
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: There may be enough people in the military that will

450
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: follow things like like if we were inside Jerry and

451
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: they said, okay, we want you to spy on Canada

452
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: and invade Greenland and stuff, it just is so far

453
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: gone people would quit or not do it. Although that's

454
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 1: not you know, those are foreign policy decisions, and they're

455
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 1: maybe stupid and you may not want to do them,

456
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 1: but it's different from violence on the streets in America

457
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 1: and going after Americans. That's a really it's a really

458
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: dangerous thing. And what do we do.

459
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:57,360
Speaker 4: It's really dangerous.

460
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,719
Speaker 3: But look at the bad people he put in charge

461
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 3: of Defense and the FBI and Justice.

462
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 1: But are they smart enough to do this? Like, Okay,

463
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,360
Speaker 1: so we worked in a big bureaucy in the CIA.

464
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 1: You put Ratcliffe in charge, he's a dummy. He puts

465
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: some he brought a deputy in who's never been an intelligence.

466
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: They really just don't know how to pull those strings.

467
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: I mean, the big organization, there's a lot of people.

468
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: You don't just give some sort of order. You probably

469
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 1: don't even they don't even know how to give an

470
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: order through the system, like it's it's a professional organization

471
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 1: with lawyers and people in different areas and different offices.

472
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 1: So yes, you got bad people in charge, and eventually

473
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 1: that could lead to really partisan institutions. But I don't

474
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: think it's there yet.

475
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 3: They could be wrong, John, but they think among rank

476
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 3: and file, say in the CIA, they've got more support

477
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 3: than we might think. They've told me that in the FBI,

478
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 3: in the CIA, in Defense, in Justice. I don't I

479
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 3: worry that it's there yet either, agreed, But I think

480
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 3: part of the whole equation here is just to create

481
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 3: chaos and then blame the left, like imagine a situation

482
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 3: where things got really ugly next year and Trump did

483
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 3: declare whatever, and our military was out on the streets

484
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 3: and Donald Trump said, with all of this going on, man,

485
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 3: we can't hold elections now. And some my home state, Illinois,

486
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 3: a Democratic state.

487
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 4: JB.

488
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 3: Pritzker comes out and says, screw that, we're holding elections

489
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 3: in Illinois. But then there's confusion in Illinois and half

490
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 3: of the election workers don't want to work in Illinois,

491
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 3: and you could envision just utter chaos where we couldn't

492
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 3: have a functioning midterm election.

493
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 2: Okay, shut it.

494
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 4: All done, shut this.

495
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna excuse me. I've just poured myself a

496
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 2: shot of whiskey here and in the morning.

497
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 4: This is why I drink taki legit irish.

498
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 2: You gotta drink. You gotta drink whiskey.

499
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: Hold on, let me ask quick question while you're thinking

500
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: for good for it. The one thing is, yeah, you

501
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: create that chaos inside so that you are in charge

502
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: and you're more powerful, But in the meantime you are

503
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: weakening the state. There are others out there. The one

504
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: thing about the terrorists, for example, going after China, I

505
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: think Trump's view of China is like a twenty year

506
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: old version of China that he thinks they can manipulate

507
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: them and they need to come to us to sell things.

508
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: China has moved way ahead. They have incredibly these dark

509
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: factories that don't have lights in them because it's all

510
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: run by robots. Like they are moving ahead. They're becoming powerful.

511
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: They're starting to become powerful militarily. These games that we're playing.

512
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: Trump says silly things. His people may think that's oh yeah,

513
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: maybe that's true, but it's not working. On the rest

514
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: of the world. All of these other leaders are saying,

515
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: this guy's an idiot, and we are making ourselves weaker

516
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: visa each China in these other places in the meantime,

517
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 1: and that can't be a good thing for United.

518
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 3: I think because of that, John, I think ultimately Trump's

519
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 3: gonna back down on all of this terrriff stuff and

520
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 3: save face because I just I know the smartest people

521
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 3: around him are anti tariff. So I can see a

522
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 3: scenario where he walks away from tariffs and claims that

523
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 3: some sort of victory.

524
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 2: Let's pass for a second, we'll be right back.

525
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: So you came from a Republican party that thought different things, right,

526
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: So free trade was a good thing, all those type

527
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: of stuff. The notion that you could invade Greenland, you can.

528
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: We can probably get minerals and work with the Danes

529
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: to get whatever we need from Greenland. We could put

530
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: we used to have five or six military bases there,

531
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 1: and we say we need it for defense. I'm sure

532
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,719
Speaker 1: we could build five or six military bases there if

533
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: we wanted to. We don't need to take it from

534
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: anybody to do that. You're saying the people believe in isolationism.

535
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: If you're a former Republican, you don't believe that. So

536
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: when you talk to those people, how do you talk

537
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: to them in a respectful way? Would they start to say, oh,

538
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: I see, we do need the rest of the world.

539
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: It sounds nice to say we can do things ourselves.

540
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: Totally get it, but that's not the world we live in.

541
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 3: And here's why, John, that's a more nuanced conversation with

542
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 3: the base, and I don't have as much success with that.

543
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 4: Like I.

544
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 3: We'll get into a conversation and okay, guys, you want

545
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 3: to retrench from the rest of the world and leave

546
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 3: Europe alone, And okay, fine, But when somebody invades France

547
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 3: in the UK in fifteen twenty years, we're gonna have

548
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 3: to do something about You can walk them through that history.

549
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 3: They don't think that far ahead. It's a movement and

550
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 3: a base that believes, damn it, take care of ours

551
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 3: right now. Fuck the rest of the world, Fuck all

552
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 3: these treaties, fuck NATO and all the alliances.

553
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 4: Man, take care of ours.

554
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 3: And like so he invades Greenland like that wouldn't even

555
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 3: they wouldn't care about that. That's just that's fucking kicking ass.

556
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 3: We're kicking ass. That's now part of America.

557
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 2: One of my core concerns about the mega Republican Party

558
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 2: is it doesn't have principles so much as it can

559
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 2: be led anywhere. Pro galization, anti globalization, pro tariff, anti tariff.

560
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 2: These things can change on a dime.

561
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 3: All of my former Republican colleagues in Congress, and all

562
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 3: of my former right wing media people, they've all made

563
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 3: a practical decision to support him, advanced their career, stay

564
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 3: in the game. All of that get elected. But the

565
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 3: average Trump voter out there, I still believe most of

566
00:32:54,040 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 3: them believe in certain basic things, and their devotion to him,

567
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 3: their leader and they're they've been waiting decades to finally

568
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 3: get a shot at revenge to everything that's been punching

569
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 3: at them has blinded them to their I do believe

570
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 3: most of them. When I can get them down on

571
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 3: a conversation about the Constitution, most of them still will

572
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 3: admit they fundamentally believe the Constitution. But they've put this

573
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 3: over here for now because Joe. Sometimes Trump has to

574
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 3: break the rules. Fuck do process, get these people out

575
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 3: of here. But it's not constitutional, Steve, Joe, I believe

576
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 3: in the Constitution, but right now Biden let way too

577
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 3: many of them. Man not to excuse them, but I

578
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 3: still think they have the potential to have the basic

579
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 3: good belief there, most of them, not all.

580
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 4: When you meet these.

581
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 1: People and you're not talking politics, yeah these are Oftentimes

582
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: they are nice people. We share a lot of common things.

583
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: We share sports teams, we share living in America, we

584
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 1: like to eat at the same restaurants, and all those

585
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 1: kind of things. I think it's what Trump has done successfully,

586
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 1: and it started like didn't start with the people like

587
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 1: Rush Limbaugh and Fox News. Is they create a false

588
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 1: straw man, a false story, and then they attack that

589
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 1: and tear it down. And so yeah, if you tell

590
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:27,240
Speaker 1: everybody that you know you're suffering because of those people,

591
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 1: then yeah, you hate those people. But the problem is

592
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: the first story wasn't true. Trump at the end of

593
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 1: the day, if you actually look at what he's doing,

594
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 1: it's not helping all those people that are so angry

595
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 1: and they want the government to help them.

596
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 3: And there's always but John, here's the beauty of what

597
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 3: they do. And I used to do some of this

598
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 3: when I was an idiot on the right. There's always

599
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:47,879
Speaker 3: a little bit of.

600
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:48,959
Speaker 4: Truth in what they say.

601
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 3: Like, oh my god, five years ago, there was a

602
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 3: grammar school in South Dakota that decided we're not going

603
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 3: to sing religious Christmas carols. You can only sing Rootolph

604
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 3: the Red Nose Reindeer. And you go on my radio

605
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 3: show or Fox News that night. Oh my god, you

606
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:12,439
Speaker 3: can't sing religious Christmas songs around America anymore. So they

607
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 3: take one little thing, blow it up. Oh, the Democratic

608
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 3: Party wants to defund the police. No, a couple crazy

609
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 3: leftists said that. So there's always just a little nugget

610
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 3: of truth that they can grab onto and blow up.

611
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 1: I mean, because you can live in Idaho and be

612
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 1: upset about foreigners or that trans You've never seen a

613
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 1: trans athlete in life, but it's, oh my god, that transience.

614
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: It's like every rated these stories like I don't care

615
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: about trans athletes, and I don't want criminals runn around

616
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: our streets either.

617
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 3: But you know, it's fear, John's it's fear I find

618
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 3: at its core. That's at the bottom of every conversation

619
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 3: I have with a Trump voter. And I love these people,

620
00:35:55,080 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 3: but there's a basic fear that Trump's been able to pound.

621
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 2: So we're talking about one size, I'll say it. The

622
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 2: Democrats suck. It was like, really, that's all you can

623
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 2: come up with, And I look at what the Democrats produce,

624
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 2: and unfortunately only have two choices. It's like, really, they're

625
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,760
Speaker 2: pulling out the Toledo mud hens right to play the Yankees,

626
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 2: and I don't know what to do about that. In fact,

627
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,720
Speaker 2: that's the opposite of a conspiracy. They fucking couldn't conspire

628
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,760
Speaker 2: to do anything. They can't make a plan.

629
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, Jerry, it's a real problem because and someone like

630
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 3: me now for the last seven years, in essence, I

631
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 3: am a Democrat temporarily, and they're a real problem they're

632
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 3: a mess. Look for three months last year, I campaigned

633
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 3: every single day in a battleground state for Kamala Harris,

634
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,720
Speaker 3: and everywhere I went, again, we're talking about regular people.

635
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 3: Regular people would tell me, Joe, I know Trump's an asshole,

636
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 3: but the Democrats are snobs who look down on me.

637
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 3: I heard a variation of that everywhere I went. So

638
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 3: regular working class Americans who aren't weird like us, they

639
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 3: think about this stuff maybe once a month. They had

640
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 3: a choice between an asshole who at least said he

641
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 3: was going to do something about these Haitian migrants that

642
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 3: are eating cats and dogs, or the Democratic Party that's

643
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 3: utterly ignored the issue of immigration. So they went with

644
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 3: the assholes. So the Democrats problem is, what the fuck

645
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:36,839
Speaker 3: you snobs, you elite us, wake the fuck up. You've

646
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 3: lost touch with working class people. If they stay that way,

647
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,839
Speaker 3: oh my god, no matter how bad Trump is, they

648
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:45,760
Speaker 3: could keep winning.

649
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 2: So they need assholes on the Democratic side.

650
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 3: You know what, Jerry, they need fight, Hey, they need.

651
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 2: Fi people could fight. Ye many people under the age

652
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:54,320
Speaker 2: of seventy five.

653
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 3: Bernie's a fighter, but he's like eighty three. When I

654
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:02,959
Speaker 3: went to Congress ten years ago, college educated people sent

655
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 3: me to Congress voted Republican. People without a college degree

656
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 3: voted Democrat. It's utterly flipped. In the last ten to

657
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 3: twelve years, the Democrats have become out of touch and elitist.

658
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 1: The challenges this country faces and the challenge that the

659
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: world faces at this time are so complex that one

660
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: party really doesn't have the answers. There's no one politician

661
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: that's going to be able to solve all these problems

662
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 1: for people. And which goes back to your original tough

663
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 1: guy thing is like sometimes Americans they say they're upset

664
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: that the government's not helping them. More like, well, tough enough.

665
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:37,720
Speaker 1: Some of these things are not going to be solved

666
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 1: for you. We have to work together to make the

667
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 1: best of it for ourselves. And at the end of

668
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: the day, as bad as we think it is, we

669
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: live better than every generation for the last two thousand years.

670
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 1: Americans for the most part are not starving. They're not

671
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,359
Speaker 1: scraping through the streets or not yet shooting each other

672
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 1: in the streets. They have enough food. A lot of

673
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 1: people have the world strongest computers in their pockets, so

674
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: we didn't have to figure out we have to redo

675
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: the narrative to suggest, yes, there's things that we need

676
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: to figure out what are bad and we need to fix.

677
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 1: We have to realize the rest of the world is

678
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: moving forward. We can't just sit here. But the government's

679
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 1: not gonna solve some of these problems for you.

680
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 2: So you talked about a pendulum. Okay, we've swung too

681
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 2: far to the left, and you're right. You know, gay marriage,

682
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 2: like twelve years ago, my grandmother Irish immigrant, she couldn't

683
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 2: have thought of she was hand to marry Irish. She

684
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 2: had to marry Catholic. My parents like they had to

685
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 2: marry Catholic, but they didn't need to pa they could

686
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 2: marry Italian, you know. I you know, my parents just

687
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 2: wanted me to marry a woman, right, you know, they

688
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,839
Speaker 2: didn't care whether it was a you know, and my kids, like,

689
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:44,439
Speaker 2: I don't get a HyET. I just hope they're happy.

690
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 2: So that's a huge amount of change. But the pendulum

691
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 2: did swing, So it's swinging down to the right. Are

692
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 2: we gonna naturally Is there a law of gravity or

693
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,280
Speaker 2: fit political physics that's gonna bring us back towards the middle,

694
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 2: or are we like freaking stuck on that is the

695
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 2: ticker is like stuck on the right.

696
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 4: Now, fuck that. I'm a dark irishman.

697
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 3: You're not gonna get rosy scenariot of me. I think

698
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 3: the jury's out. I know the pendulum has swung now

699
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 3: far in the right. I don't know how long it's

700
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 3: gonna stay there or close to over there.

701
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 4: A lot of people voted.

702
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 3: For Trump who are not part of his do or

703
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:26,959
Speaker 3: die base, and I remind Democrats of this every single day.

704
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 3: They have already factored in how bad he is, in

705
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 3: the bad shit he does. But I do think, I

706
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 3: really do think we're at this moment where the country

707
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 3: has to decide if we want to stay together. And

708
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 3: I think we've been in this period now for eight, nine, ten, eleven,

709
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,720
Speaker 3: twelve years. I think we're gonna be in this period

710
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 3: for a while. I think things are gonna get violent.

711
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 3: Can't help but get violent, because we ultimately have to

712
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 3: decide if we want to stay as one union. And

713
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 3: I don't think we're close to that decision yet.

714
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 1: It's tough because it doesn't break up geographically very nicely.

715
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 1: It's neighborhood to neighborhood and those type of things. Joe,

716
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 1: next time we want to slid our throats. We'll have

717
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 1: you back on the show.

718
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,240
Speaker 4: And I told you this wouldn't be happy.

719
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 1: Actually, thank you for what you're doing. Because you are

720
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 1: out there, You're getting attacked from both sides. But I'm

721
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 1: glad you're doing it, and I hope a lot of

722
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:25,280
Speaker 1: other people will start to do it because I think

723
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: this country and the people live here are worth it.

724
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 1: You know, it's at the end of the day. I

725
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 1: think some of the people are going to come around

726
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 1: and realize, hey, we looked at politics as entertainment too much,

727
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:36,919
Speaker 1: and we need to actually start thinking about it as

728
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,799
Speaker 1: solving problems. It doesn't solve all our problems, it doesn't

729
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,760
Speaker 1: entertain us, it doesn't make us kill off our enemies,

730
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 1: but it needs to be able to solve problems. And

731
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 1: so I thank you for what you're doing, Thanks for

732
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 1: coming on with us, and we'd like to have you

733
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 1: on again.

734
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:55,280
Speaker 3: I hope, Thank you, guys.

735
00:41:55,840 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 5: Mission Implausible is produced by Adam Davidson, Jerry O'shay, Jon Seipher,

736
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 5: and Jonathan Sterr.

737
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 2: The associate producer is Rachel Harner.

738
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 5: Mission Implausible is a production of Honorable Mention and Abominable

739
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 5: Pictures for iHeart podcasts,