Speaker 1: Hey, what up. Welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlieb. You're listening
Speaker 1: to all Ball, all ball stories all the time. Thanks
Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. If you miss part one
Speaker 1: of our sit down with John sun Bold, you should
Speaker 1: go back and listen to. It's pretty fifth fascinating um
Speaker 1: growing up, why Missouri, how he chose it, playing for
Speaker 1: playing for norm. This is part two, and we're gonna
Speaker 1: get to get to what it was like to play
Speaker 1: in the NBA and how he lasted in the n
Speaker 1: b A and calling it quits in the NBA. Before
Speaker 1: we get to that, I'll give you some quick thoughts
Speaker 1: on a couple of teams that I've gotten a chance
Speaker 1: to see in person. I'm blown away by Kentucky's transition
Speaker 1: game on offense and having seen them against Auburn and
Speaker 1: seeing him against A and M, and then see him
Speaker 1: against Kansas, who they blew out. I think the one
Speaker 1: thing that teams have to realize, and most have, is
Speaker 1: you have to press them to slow him down, because man,
Speaker 1: you get Wheeler going full head of steam. If not
Speaker 1: he throws the ball ahead, they gets you back pedaling.
Speaker 1: They're so skilled, so athletics, so smart and talented. That's
Speaker 1: a really good team. You have to make them a
Speaker 1: half court team if you want to beat him. Bill
Speaker 1: self tries some triangle to that didn't really work. The
Speaker 1: zone was relatively effective, man and man was not really effective,
Speaker 1: but mostly because they struggled to get back in transition.
Speaker 1: You know, it's one of those things where I do
Speaker 1: think that John cal Perry may not be the like
Speaker 1: best excello coach of all time, but he's definitely a
Speaker 1: very good coach. There's a lot of things he does
Speaker 1: really well, and he's changed and evolved, and this team
Speaker 1: is not just good and talented, they're very good and
Speaker 1: very well coached. As for Kansas, I still think, and
Speaker 1: of course when I'm recording this, this is after they whooped,
Speaker 1: I would stay without Bogi. I still think they're the
Speaker 1: team to beat in the Big twelve. And he's amazing
Speaker 1: at figuring out kind of the math puzzle for his
Speaker 1: team and how he can get him to win. But
Speaker 1: I would also point out that, you know, this is
Speaker 1: a program that's not used to the portal, and it
Speaker 1: feels like they made they made some mistakes in the
Speaker 1: portal they didn't need to make. They took several guards.
Speaker 1: None of them are really contributing, not just from me Martin,
Speaker 1: but a chef who kid from Drake. I don't understand
Speaker 1: some of the selections and maybe you're just looking for depth.
Speaker 1: They don't have depth inside, and they do have a
Speaker 1: depth in the back court that he doesn't seemingly trust.
Speaker 1: So that element to it is at least interesting, if
Speaker 1: if nothing else, and and kind of classic Bill self.
Speaker 1: They'll probably win the league, they'll probably be overseated and
Speaker 1: they won't get to a final four, and people say
Speaker 1: they choked, And the truth is that his coaching and
Speaker 1: what they're able to do and put guys and his
Speaker 1: ability to win that league covered up for the fact
Speaker 1: that they're not nearly as talented as as some of
Speaker 1: these teams are. UM I was at Texas and Texas
Speaker 1: Texas tech I I I don't hate Texas. Um I
Speaker 1: think you have one of the problems when you're running
Speaker 1: a motion offense and you bring so many new guys
Speaker 1: in is not a lot of guys play motion offense
Speaker 1: and they all have It's like they're all they're all
Speaker 1: open box guys and you've never even been the best
Speaker 1: buy and you get some open box. The box has
Speaker 1: already been open. Now you could say the same thing
Speaker 1: about Texas Tech that as seven new players. Um, I
Speaker 1: think their defense is incredible. I think their offense is okay,
Speaker 1: But I don't necessarily believe that Texas has the personnel
Speaker 1: for how how he wants to play for Texas Tech
Speaker 1: incredible on defense, I mark Adams is a not a
Speaker 1: good a great defensive coach. They're as good at in
Speaker 1: terms of playing the way they want to play a
Speaker 1: hard pick up, full court, get you to the half court,
Speaker 1: keep you to one side, pressure forced to the baseline.
Speaker 1: That's where the help is. Doubling from the baseline and
Speaker 1: post catches pretty outstanding. And then you factor in that
Speaker 1: that place is a zoo. Now, I think they can
Speaker 1: keep it going. I think he's an incredible coach, and
Speaker 1: that junior college background only helps him. You know, take
Speaker 1: guys from all different sorts of pots and melt them
Speaker 1: in and make make some kind of stew. Texas eventually
Speaker 1: will be fine. This year, the probably NC a terman team,
Speaker 1: and as he gets the future years, so get guys
Speaker 1: that fit better. But Texas texts the interesting one because
Speaker 1: Adams has used what Beard built and built on it.
Speaker 1: It's pretty awesome. All right. Let's get to John sun Bold.
Speaker 1: When we last talked to him, he was done as
Speaker 1: a college player. How did he lasts as long as
Speaker 1: a pro. Here's part two with John Sunfold. You know
Speaker 1: it was what well, my you know, my brother coaches
Speaker 1: and he always says that she always the player led
Speaker 1: team is a good team, you know when you have
Speaker 1: with there, And that's kind of the magic to it
Speaker 1: a little bit. You know, we had you could talk
Speaker 1: back to coach, you could, you could, you can snap
Speaker 1: back in, you know, at your own peril and you
Speaker 1: better you better be right, you know, um, and you
Speaker 1: better have some another player to kind of have your back.
Speaker 1: You can talk back to coach. But you know, we
Speaker 1: we had. And this is where I think, I think
Speaker 1: the sport is missing. And I'm not one of these.
Speaker 1: It was always better in the olden days, right, but
Speaker 1: the sport is missing the continuity of playing two and
Speaker 1: three and four and five years together. One the bonds,
Speaker 1: the bonds you build are unbelievable. But but just in
Speaker 1: terms of the sport, We're playing the Sweet sixteam Syracuse
Speaker 1: in front of forty people against seen all and they
Speaker 1: played that year, Um, Tommy Emikers the coach. They would
Speaker 1: switch between a man and man and they would play
Speaker 1: wasn't a triangle to the guard three and not guard too?
Speaker 1: Kind of like Tim Floyd sometimes would do a little
Speaker 1: bit and um. But but they were kind of getting
Speaker 1: screwed up by what we were doing. And so because
Speaker 1: we had a guy named Brian Mortin and is now
Speaker 1: a high school coach and tulsa very good air six
Speaker 1: ten shooter. Uh, it kind of screwed him up because
Speaker 1: now we had four shooters and me, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: and so we call at a time out, I said, hey,
Speaker 1: let's run cyclone. And cyclones are just a play where
Speaker 1: we set a ball screen on one side. They swing
Speaker 1: it to me and they said, a double backscreen for
Speaker 1: the ball screener. We called cyclone because we took it
Speaker 1: from Tim Floyd my sophomore year and put it in
Speaker 1: and we ran it to death my sophomore year. We
Speaker 1: ran to death my junior we had never practiced it.
Speaker 1: We had never once gone dry five on o on it.
Speaker 1: My senior season. It was not part of what we did.
Speaker 1: But I just said, hey, look like, let's run cyclone.
Speaker 1: I remember it like, yeah, like who what, Like, go
Speaker 1: to Joe because a hardheage on that and then swing
Speaker 1: it to me and we'll get and we got like
Speaker 1: three layps on it. We also called I called an
Speaker 1: inbounds play that we hadn't run in two years, and
Speaker 1: we got a couple of layups and open shots on it,
Speaker 1: and it was like one. It's the it's the cohesiveness
Speaker 1: of guys also to the level of basketball. I you
Speaker 1: that was needed and demanded, and not everybody came in
Speaker 1: as a smart basketball player, right, Yeah, I agree with you,
Speaker 1: But it's more like, hey, if you're going to play,
Speaker 1: you have to be able to defend and rebound, but
Speaker 1: you better know what trick you're doing, right. You got
Speaker 1: to be in the right place at the right time.
Speaker 1: You don't have to make the shop. You better know
Speaker 1: what you're supposed to be. And I think that's really
Speaker 1: those are things that are really hard now as the
Speaker 1: world has said, like, hey, these kids have to be
Speaker 1: able to move and like, yeah, but there's part part
Speaker 1: of the magic to it that I think set you
Speaker 1: up for success. But I also think makes the process
Speaker 1: more enjoyable is that, Hey, there was a time where
Speaker 1: you know, like Bryan moon Nutey again, he didn't play
Speaker 1: thirteen games, didn't they didn't take off the sweats thirteen games.
Speaker 1: Our sophomore year we came in together. He transferred from
Speaker 1: Tortune Jr. College. Didn't play. Now he made the big
Speaker 1: free throws beat Oklahoma. They carey him off the court.
Speaker 1: But there were thirteen times which he did not play
Speaker 1: in the game. On my senior year, he was amazing, right,
Speaker 1: And that's like what it's supposed to be about. And
Speaker 1: I just don't know if we I don't think we
Speaker 1: can ever get it back. And I don't know why
Speaker 1: we took that out of the sport. I don't think
Speaker 1: you can. It goes back to, Okay, you played for
Speaker 1: a tough coach. Um. When you play a place three
Speaker 1: or four years, you take on the personality of that guy. Right.
Speaker 1: So when Norm's good teams at Missouri were usually junior
Speaker 1: senior laden teams, no different than my squads. When we
Speaker 1: were using juniors and senior we walked into Alan field
Speaker 1: House like the old man and our coach. Right, bring
Speaker 1: it on f all you people. It doesn't matter. And
Speaker 1: you get that only because you're you're built for that.
Speaker 1: You weren't built for that when you're young, right. Uh.
Speaker 1: An example, when I was a freshman, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: just scrimmaging here, I am just scrimmage and freshman on
Speaker 1: the break all American Larry Drew throws me the ball.
Speaker 1: I shoot it. Norm blows the whistle stops it. Why
Speaker 1: the hell would you shoot that shot? I don't have
Speaker 1: an answer for him. I have no answer for why
Speaker 1: I would shoot it. Now, fast forward to my senior year.
Speaker 1: I was on the World Cup team. Come back from
Speaker 1: South America where we played, Uh, come back. We're practicing,
Speaker 1: back and forth, back and forth. I pull up and
Speaker 1: just fire one in. He blows a whistle, stops the practice.
Speaker 1: Why do you shoot it? I said, because I'll make
Speaker 1: that some bitch. He says, exactly right it. But do
Speaker 1: we have kids like that today? Because if you bounce,
Speaker 1: if you played for three different coaches and bounced around
Speaker 1: a lot of places, you're not gonna get it. You're
Speaker 1: not gonna have it. And the feeling you'd have is gosh,
Speaker 1: this is too hard. I may do something somewhere else.
Speaker 1: And that's the challenge. I mean, that's the biggest challenge,
Speaker 1: because you know, you go, you know you you still
Speaker 1: you're around the college game and you you go do
Speaker 1: games and see it. I go to practices. Coaches aren't
Speaker 1: the same as they used to be. I don't mean
Speaker 1: all of them, but the guys aren't like they used
Speaker 1: like like they'd like to coach, no doubt. I mean
Speaker 1: they can't be They can't be as tough because they
Speaker 1: worry about the reaction that kids gonna have. Um My
Speaker 1: guy never you know, worried about the reaction. This isn't
Speaker 1: even he, but he used, he said, he famously would
Speaker 1: talk to other other players. He would he would say
Speaker 1: things to other guys on other teams. And what's weird
Speaker 1: is we've gotten this magnet coaches like, don't talk to
Speaker 1: my players. Don't don't don't. Don't you talk to my players?
Speaker 1: Like what we do? You know that? What was that
Speaker 1: experience like when he would be talking to the other
Speaker 1: team's best players and say something to it and there
Speaker 1: was a like a back and forth there a little bit. Well,
Speaker 1: normal was a psychology guy. I mean it was a
Speaker 1: psychology guy. It was all basically, well, you go back
Speaker 1: to golf. Norm would put it like, okay, if this
Speaker 1: twelve and thirteen handicapper can't break eighty right, he's in
Speaker 1: his he can't break. So we're gonna take that player
Speaker 1: over there, and he averages ten a games. See if
Speaker 1: he can get twenty five. I don't care if he
Speaker 1: makes two on you don't guard him. Now, guard him
Speaker 1: within reason, But he's gonna We're gonna see if he's cycling.
Speaker 1: His was all psychological with the officials, with opponents, uh,
Speaker 1: and with his own team. I how about this. I'm
Speaker 1: now in the starting lineup as a freshman tenth in
Speaker 1: the country, were ranked. Colorado comes into the hern center,
Speaker 1: no shot clock, no three point line. Remember, they're gonna
Speaker 1: they're gonna stall the game on us. I mean they
Speaker 1: get the tip or we might have scored right away,
Speaker 1: they're gonna just hold the ball. Well, they screwed up.
Speaker 1: We go down to score. They screwed up, We go
Speaker 1: down to score. I'm guarding a Gavin named Jojo Hunter,
Speaker 1: kid from maybe Baltimore. All American are all big eight
Speaker 1: player Uh Colorado, that's my assignment. He's their best player.
Speaker 1: Scored half his twenty six or twenty eight of four
Speaker 1: they got four points. You come in the locker room
Speaker 1: and you make the turn and I'm gonna take a
Speaker 1: bite out of an orange. Right, I got an orange slice.
Speaker 1: I drew the Americans next to me, Norm comes in
Speaker 1: and goes ballistic. He goes, I've never had a guy
Speaker 1: ever had a guy in history played for me or
Speaker 1: the university that his guy scored all the points. And
Speaker 1: I look up and he goes, fucking Joe Joe Hunters
Speaker 1: got sucking every point that they I mean, the dude
Speaker 1: is too for eight, right, and now the other guys.
Speaker 1: Because I'm this freshman, I kind of put the orange down.
Speaker 1: Larry Drew said, hey, coach Sonny, Sony will do better
Speaker 1: next half. I mean, first of all, I mean it's
Speaker 1: to four, but he just you know, it was all
Speaker 1: it was psychological stuff and appointance. And I think older
Speaker 1: coaches had that. I mean, today's world is so different.
Speaker 1: It's just so different. Again, not that it was better
Speaker 1: or worse. I'd love to play in today's world the
Speaker 1: way it's played up and down pace. I could run
Speaker 1: all the shoot shots for three or two or I
Speaker 1: would love to play in this system. But I don't
Speaker 1: know if you learn as much life skills as the
Speaker 1: old man taught me. Right, His deal was life's not easy.
Speaker 1: It's not gonna be easy. So why should I why
Speaker 1: should there be any advantage for you guys being here?
Speaker 1: You're justice student, I get to play basketball. But you're
Speaker 1: no different than you know. And it's true, right you
Speaker 1: go coach and coach that he would you think this
Speaker 1: is hard. Life is hard. You can make it through
Speaker 1: this practice, you will make it in life. That was
Speaker 1: That was just that. But what I worry more about
Speaker 1: today's student athletes is when you're done, all the stuff
Speaker 1: that's done for him today. And again I'm not against it,
Speaker 1: but all the stuff that's done when they're done, that
Speaker 1: all ends like it all and they're looking Okay, I
Speaker 1: didn't know how to No, it's nuts, and I think
Speaker 1: it's a they're going the wrong direction if they want
Speaker 1: to help kid. This is this is this this, this
Speaker 1: is a great part of the discussion. Okay, So I
Speaker 1: obviously you were a great player game, an NBA player,
Speaker 1: and now you got into the financial world and been
Speaker 1: successful in it. Um. But my biggest issue with the
Speaker 1: transferring and and look I transferred, Okay, I got in trouble,
Speaker 1: but I was contemplating transferring. I was likely to go
Speaker 1: back for at least one more year. And who knows
Speaker 1: I would have transferred anyway, but I I transferred, So
Speaker 1: i'm and so I understand. I didn't go to the
Speaker 1: high school I was supposed to go to because it
Speaker 1: was better coached. I went to public school ten minutes away,
Speaker 1: but I stayed back a year. Like again, like all
Speaker 1: these things that people are doing now like I did.
Speaker 1: So I'm not telling you that it's always wrong, but
Speaker 1: the multiple transfers. Here's the thing when you get down playing.
Speaker 1: In addition to all these things that are done for
Speaker 1: you and hand it to you, now you have to
Speaker 1: go out and do in your own You're like, holy crap, right,
Speaker 1: But it's the who do you call? Right? Like if
Speaker 1: your financial business goes tomorrow? Right like you investment and
Speaker 1: everybody pulls their money. Okay, you're gonna call the Maszoo guys.
Speaker 1: And he said, hey, man, I need a job. I
Speaker 1: need to get my if if my job goes away,
Speaker 1: I know exactly, I know ten donors who I'm gonna call, like,
Speaker 1: tell me what I can do to give me some
Speaker 1: And I wouldn't say I need a job. I would
Speaker 1: just say, like, I don't know if you've been in
Speaker 1: the situation. But give me some guidance on if you
Speaker 1: were me, what you would do and the calls you
Speaker 1: would make and what you do. Right. You have a
Speaker 1: and you have a basketball fan, right, right, So, and
Speaker 1: if you want to go into coaching, you go into
Speaker 1: coaching with that basketball tree. You've got guys playing at
Speaker 1: four schools. Four What alumni game invites a guy who's
Speaker 1: been been there for a week? Right? Who do you like?
Speaker 1: You're not synonymous with You're synonymous with Missouri. I'm synonymous
Speaker 1: with Oaklahom. Mistake, Guys, you gotta play somewhere two or
Speaker 1: three years in order to have kind of that sweat equity.
Speaker 1: And we've we've completely eliminated. You know, you have people
Speaker 1: who are in our position or even bigger stages than
Speaker 1: what we do now platforms who do not ever translate
Speaker 1: the value in it, the value in being a part
Speaker 1: of something for longer and sticking out the tough times,
Speaker 1: even if it's not for the betterment of your career,
Speaker 1: your immediate career. And I don't know why that's not
Speaker 1: a spoken value. I don't really understand that. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: the other part is, I don't know if there can
Speaker 1: be the truth. The truth pill is a difficult one, right,
Speaker 1: the truth of your game as a player. That that's
Speaker 1: the hard part for kids, and coaches have a hard
Speaker 1: time with it because they don't want a kid to transfer,
Speaker 1: They don't want a kid to leave. But if they're
Speaker 1: really honest, and we're all most of these kids are
Speaker 1: playing the next level. Whatever left. You're not playing now.
Speaker 1: Some can be a paid pro. Some that's great. But
Speaker 1: in order to understand that truth, that's a tough one
Speaker 1: because no one really gives them the truth. There's some
Speaker 1: bloody on the outside saying you're gonna if you played
Speaker 1: somewhere else, you'll you know, you can play at this league.
Speaker 1: You can play. Look at that guy over there, heap
Speaker 1: made it. Uh, you have to have some guidance. I
Speaker 1: had obviously my my my dad would never have said
Speaker 1: I'd have been a pro player like that wasn't There
Speaker 1: was no goal of me being an NBA player. There
Speaker 1: was no goal for me to be a Division one player.
Speaker 1: Now when I got there, my goal was I hate losing.
Speaker 1: I don't like not being good. So you know, now
Speaker 1: by the time I'm a senior, I'm on the play
Speaker 1: by All American team, I make the World Cup team,
Speaker 1: and I'm looking around, going, Okay, they're talking about all
Speaker 1: these other dudes making the pros. Right, and again I'm
Speaker 1: good friends with John Paxson, But John was it Notre
Speaker 1: Dame and he's on that list, and I know I
Speaker 1: can play with packs, and so was it my thought
Speaker 1: of I would be in the NBA? No, no, no no.
Speaker 1: I wanted to win the fourth Big Eight championship so
Speaker 1: badly and then get to the final four. We didn't.
Speaker 1: We made the first part, didn't make a second and
Speaker 1: end the career that no one had had around here, right,
Speaker 1: No one had won four championships in a row here
Speaker 1: or I didn't even know in the Big eight? Right
Speaker 1: not back then? Un tell Kansas in the Big twelve.
Speaker 1: What a bunch at the end of it all. When
Speaker 1: that was done, then the focus became, well, I knew
Speaker 1: I'll get a tryout. I know I'll get drafted. I
Speaker 1: don't know where it could be second round, they say,
Speaker 1: maybe second, maybe first, maybe, I know I'll get a shot. Now,
Speaker 1: how do you how do you? How do you make
Speaker 1: it there? Well, I'll play to my strengths, stay away
Speaker 1: from my weeknes no difference, I played in college. There
Speaker 1: were things. There are things I did in high school
Speaker 1: that I didn't do in college because I used to.
Speaker 1: I was fast, so I used to take it to
Speaker 1: the rim a lot right high school. My strength was
Speaker 1: not initialing at the ram. In college, we didn't run
Speaker 1: stuff that I finished at the ring. So if you
Speaker 1: said true point guard, no, probably not in an NBA
Speaker 1: sense because of I didn't do those things. Now could
Speaker 1: I handle it and not make mistakes? Yes? Was that
Speaker 1: true shooting guard? Not because of size, But I can
Speaker 1: outshoot anybody in my mind. I got outshoot in packs
Speaker 1: and packs and played in the system that you played
Speaker 1: in college. You're you're packing, right, So you combine to
Speaker 1: both and say, okay, let me go to show up
Speaker 1: to training camp and I'll give it a go. You know,
Speaker 1: I always used to think, if you gave me two
Speaker 1: players and so and I don't care Michael Jordan's two
Speaker 1: players will beat three on three, like I'll make we'll win.
Speaker 1: I'll win three on three, five on five. I won't
Speaker 1: win one on one. I knew that, and I knew
Speaker 1: that training camp like when we're doing one on one
Speaker 1: drills on the wing, all right, So I got beat again,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna file, I'm gonna grab, I'm gonna hold, the
Speaker 1: guy's gonna go the hole. I'm gonna knock it away
Speaker 1: and knock his hand off, because usually you know, it's
Speaker 1: just a drill one up, right. But if you gave
Speaker 1: us two and three on three, four and four or
Speaker 1: five oh five, I thought, okay, some bold teams gonna win.
Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
Speaker 1: the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox sports
Speaker 1: Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app.
Speaker 1: Search f s R to listen live now. I was
Speaker 1: the sixteenth pick in the draft, which surprised me. And
Speaker 1: where were you doing that? Where were you the night
Speaker 1: of the draft? I was at my house. I had
Speaker 1: been kind of invited that they were doing the New
Speaker 1: York thing, but it was smaller and I no one
Speaker 1: knew where I was going. Back then, you didn't really
Speaker 1: have workouts for your team. My agent, who I hired,
Speaker 1: was from Seattle. He never heard from the Summits. He'd
Speaker 1: heard from the Spurs. The night before the draft. I
Speaker 1: play in summer ly in Kansas City, Indiana. Pacers called
Speaker 1: my house. They had the second pick in the draft.
Speaker 1: They're gonna take Stepanovitch and the last pick of the
Speaker 1: first round, They're gonna take me now again. My dad
Speaker 1: didn't believe that because you didn't know to believe. So
Speaker 1: that day that the draft was in the afternoon and
Speaker 1: I'm sitting I'm sitting in my house. My brother Scott,
Speaker 1: who is four years older than me as an engineer,
Speaker 1: retired engineer now a genius mind built some nuclear devices
Speaker 1: on bombs and stuff today. So anyway, he's he's at
Speaker 1: my house with my parents and his wife. Literally true story.
Speaker 1: Doug st Pick is now Seattle. Now I'm you know,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, okay, is it Randy Whitman or Paxson or
Speaker 1: you know guys. So they take the camera and they
Speaker 1: show it over the shoulder and the guy writes my
Speaker 1: name on it and they take that card and the
Speaker 1: guy walks up and Seattle and sixteen pick takes John
Speaker 1: Stumble and my brother Scott. Again. I'm a little brother.
Speaker 1: I'm the little brother. He's looking at me like they
Speaker 1: took you, like, why why would they take you? Now?
Speaker 1: The other cool thing about it is in nineteen my
Speaker 1: senior in high school, Sonics won the NBA Championship. Jack
Speaker 1: Sikman for d Brown. Guess Williams, I'm now, four years
Speaker 1: later gonna go play with those guys like that's that's incredible.
Speaker 1: But if you don't think you belong, he won't belong.
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't. I had a great camp. My
Speaker 1: first twenty games were off the chart. Then what happened
Speaker 1: is fred Brown needed more minutes off the bench. He
Speaker 1: was downtown. Freddy Brown, aged thirty one. David Thompson, one
Speaker 1: of the greatest ever, came off an injured list. So
Speaker 1: then your minutes kind of go down. But uh, but
Speaker 1: here's the packing order of how kids are. My second
Speaker 1: trip maybe to to Kansas City, maybe my first trip.
Speaker 1: I had an unbelievable second game. Lenny Wilkins was my coach.
Speaker 1: First game, I might have played five minutes the first
Speaker 1: game we had in Seattle. Second game, we go to
Speaker 1: Kansas City where the Kings were. Lenny puts me in
Speaker 1: second quarter where Kemper old kemper Arena. I love Kemper.
Speaker 1: I hit three, I got six points. At half. It's
Speaker 1: Blue Springs, it's Johnston Bull Day. Half, my hometown's there,
Speaker 1: you know, and I'm I'm feeling good at half because
Speaker 1: I scored right, I've I've got three buckets, but good,
Speaker 1: at least I didn't lay an egg. We come out
Speaker 1: I have twelve In the fourth quarter we went like
Speaker 1: I again, you're in front of your own people. You
Speaker 1: do your thing. But what's funny about that is the
Speaker 1: night before we had practiced at a place called Avala
Speaker 1: College in Kansas City. Back in the day, you'd take
Speaker 1: anywhere you can practice, right, you fly into a town.
Speaker 1: My brother Scott, the engineer, the most cautious of all
Speaker 1: of us, comes to watch practice. Now in his mind,
Speaker 1: there's Jack Sickman. Wow, there's David Thompson, there's and there's
Speaker 1: a little brother John. But that's so. My brother Bob
Speaker 1: from Columbia comes over for dinner my family's house and
Speaker 1: he says to my brother Bob, he goes, you know,
Speaker 1: John's pretty good. Now I'm a little brother. I'm just
Speaker 1: a little and Bob goes, no, ship like you haven't
Speaker 1: been watching for four years. I mean, but again, that's
Speaker 1: that's you know in the Midwest. Town in the Midwest,
Speaker 1: and you know, I mean it was it was comical,
Speaker 1: but but it was true. I'm still a little brother
Speaker 1: johnap So, yeah, I mean, it was. But the thing
Speaker 1: about what helped me was when my minutes went down
Speaker 1: that rookie year. I know what one game, maybe I
Speaker 1: didn't get in and I was pissed, Like I'm pissed
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna get dressed fast. Lenny's already given a
Speaker 1: speech and and Freddie Brown, age thirty one, comes over
Speaker 1: and said, here's the deal. It's not how many minutes
Speaker 1: you play, it's how many years you play. So here's
Speaker 1: what you need to do. Go get on the treadmill. Uh,
Speaker 1: lift some weights before you get out of here. I'll
Speaker 1: meet you tomorrow early. Don't take a day off because
Speaker 1: when Lenny calls your number, you gotta be ready. Fast forward.
Speaker 1: I played nine years, my eighth and ninth year. I'm
Speaker 1: telling guys in Miami, Bimbo Coles, Keith Askins, I'm going
Speaker 1: in there going, hey, guys, know how many years? Man
Speaker 1: haven't now many minutes, it's years. Lift some weights. I'll
Speaker 1: lift with you. I'll come tomorrow early. We'll get some
Speaker 1: shots in. And both those guys had a longer career.
Speaker 1: And I mean because if you don't that that that
Speaker 1: ego gets in your way. And if you know Lenny's
Speaker 1: call him my number one night, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: she and I haven't been shooting, and I haven't not
Speaker 1: in shape because you know the game, NBA game so
Speaker 1: many games. The practices aren't much. But if you're not playing,
Speaker 1: you better stay sharp. You better stay sharp. And that's
Speaker 1: the challenge. What was David Thompson? Uh, one of the
Speaker 1: nicest guys I've ever met. David had a substance issue. Uh,
Speaker 1: and he was coming out of rehab. Did you know? Yeah,
Speaker 1: we we we knew, Yes, yeah, we knew because it
Speaker 1: was public. Uh. And so when he I didn't, I
Speaker 1: didn't meet him, like until let's say, let's say, let's
Speaker 1: say camp started October one, and I probably went out
Speaker 1: to Seattle September one right to start working out with
Speaker 1: you guys. I think David joined us mid November one, December.
Speaker 1: First time I menut and what I mean David David
Speaker 1: Thompson was David Thompson, Like yeah, And what was really
Speaker 1: cool about it was you play and i'd let's say,
Speaker 1: I guarded him and he would come off a pick.
Speaker 1: We used to laugh about discuss. Williams always laughed David
Speaker 1: would catch it and wait till you got on and
Speaker 1: then jump up and shooting like I can shoot if
Speaker 1: I'm open, but I'd rather just you come out and
Speaker 1: then I'll shoot it over like and I look at
Speaker 1: him like you always gotta wait for me. He goes, well,
Speaker 1: I know you'll get there. I just yeah. But anyway,
Speaker 1: so in the nightmare of all nightmares in in in
Speaker 1: our life, none of us knew what substance abuse was, right,
Speaker 1: that's what That's why I asked yes. So we didn't
Speaker 1: understand that you couldn't have a beer right, like nothing.
Speaker 1: And we had a we were on the East Coast,
Speaker 1: we were in Philadelphia, we played a game. We took
Speaker 1: a bus from there to Jersey and on that bus,
Speaker 1: I mean again, it's grown man, so you're drinking beer
Speaker 1: or whatever. But none of us knew that David shouldn't.
Speaker 1: And that night the youngest of the young they're all
Speaker 1: older guys. So we get there. We had a day
Speaker 1: off the next day and I'm a kid from the Midwest,
Speaker 1: and they said, anybody want to go do something. We're
Speaker 1: in Jersey, New York. We probably got there to mid
Speaker 1: eleven o'clock midnight. I said, let's go to studio fifty four. Like,
Speaker 1: that's right, So probably six of us pile in different
Speaker 1: two different cabs and go studios sixty four and in
Speaker 1: in in a in a nightmarish moment at about two thirty,
Speaker 1: I remember a big bouncer grabbing me. You're with Seattle, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: and he's pulling me out into this cold outside with
Speaker 1: the other guys. David had gotten some altercation and some
Speaker 1: guy pushed him down the stairs. That was that night, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and his knee blew up and swelled up in his jeans.
Speaker 1: I mean we could see it, and it was. It was.
Speaker 1: It was a nightmare. It was a nightmare. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I was so he had ended his career and it
Speaker 1: was it was tough because, I mean, we none of
Speaker 1: us knew the fact that a David couldn't drink a
Speaker 1: beer and we shouldn't be drinking around it, right, We
Speaker 1: didn't none of understood any of that stuff. And uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was. It was a bad night. It was a
Speaker 1: bad night. What was Tom Chambers? Tom was I'll tell
Speaker 1: you what. He was a high flyer. I'm just telling you,
Speaker 1: freak like like he's one of those um Like again,
Speaker 1: if you played today right like he would absolutely translate today.
Speaker 1: He was so athletic because he shoot. He was He
Speaker 1: was the opposite of usually the plotting power forward right
Speaker 1: six ft ten high flyer shoot. Tom played at a high,
Speaker 1: intense level, like not always high, i Q at times low,
Speaker 1: but high in slow. And I'll just say this, if
Speaker 1: he's running the floor and he doesn't get it, oh
Speaker 1: he's on your ass. Like he's on your ass. But
Speaker 1: if he gets it in the right spot, as Lenny
Speaker 1: always told me, Lenny Wilpins, if Tom gets in the
Speaker 1: right spot, he's finishing this planet. Right, He's and and
Speaker 1: that's what he He just had an intensity to him
Speaker 1: that was just crazy, like just and he'd go get numbers.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's just getting numbers every night, every game.
Speaker 1: And I didn't practice all that hard all the time.
Speaker 1: But here's the thing about the NBA. People don't get
Speaker 1: because they say, well, practice can't be hard. All you
Speaker 1: gotta do is play five on five and then practice
Speaker 1: his heart right because of the competitive level. You take
Speaker 1: the second five and they start kicking the ass of
Speaker 1: the first cash because that's what you want to do.
Speaker 1: I want more minutes. I'm gonna try to score on
Speaker 1: him and then all of a sudden, you gotta practice. Now,
Speaker 1: you gotta worry about fighting, right, you're a team. But
Speaker 1: that's all an NBA. I've never been on a team
Speaker 1: that didn't fight. And that's but that's that's the level
Speaker 1: of competition of the personnel, and the NBA is the
Speaker 1: highest ever. So when someone said, well, practice is easy,
Speaker 1: I went, yeah, not really, because everybody wants minutes. If
Speaker 1: a guy in front of me turns his ankle, that's
Speaker 1: too bad for you. But my turn, right, it's it's
Speaker 1: my turn. Like so I and I hope you sit
Speaker 1: out for about a week. And when when sicknal we
Speaker 1: get the ball in the post and reverse pivot and
Speaker 1: make a shot. Did you guys call it the sigma then?
Speaker 1: Or was it afterwards that he became the sick move.
Speaker 1: I was always a sick mon. It was always Jack,
Speaker 1: I mean, but that was that's that was his move.
Speaker 1: That was his go to the reverse, reverse pivot and
Speaker 1: the post. No one did that, even the all all
Speaker 1: the way behind the head up high. Guys couldn't know.
Speaker 1: It was my rookie year. We go to Boston. We're
Speaker 1: only going to the Celtics once. One time you go
Speaker 1: West East once they come out to place once and
Speaker 1: I don't know, I think they only lost one game
Speaker 1: in this two year span. We beat him, and I
Speaker 1: must have played well because I was in the fourth
Speaker 1: I was in, I was in the game the fourth
Speaker 1: quarter of the whole quarter. Guarden, Dennis Johnson and Sickma
Speaker 1: had about thirty eight and Bird had about forty five.
Speaker 1: Is back and forth, but we beat him, and something
Speaker 1: unheard of because again nobody went to Boston and won
Speaker 1: a game. But uh, yeah, Jack was I mean obviously
Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame or special player um and I
Speaker 1: don't I mean Helly shot for the free tie like
Speaker 1: he could have just flat out shooting. And again one
Speaker 1: of those guys that I don'm not saying overachieved, but
Speaker 1: any hig school showed up, you know, and and and
Speaker 1: worked at his craft. I mean, he was one of
Speaker 1: those guys that worked at his craft. And again, if
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have played for Seattle, I'm not sure howd
Speaker 1: have played nine years. I played with older guys because
Speaker 1: they taught me to be a pro. Even though today's world,
Speaker 1: a young guy goes to a young team. If you
Speaker 1: don't learn it, yeah, you can be done in a
Speaker 1: year and I don't I don't know if I would
Speaker 1: have survived if I wouldn't have played with a bunch
Speaker 1: of older guys. Then again, after practice, Doug, I'm twenty
Speaker 1: two years old, going okay, what do we do now? Well? No,
Speaker 1: they all got wives and kids, and I'm thinking, well, shoot,
Speaker 1: so I go hang out the mall or I'll go.
Speaker 1: I mean it was weird. It was weird. But if
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have played Freddie Brown and Gus and those guys, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I have played nine, I really don't.
Speaker 1: Um you went. You were on the first heat team, right, yeah? Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 1: That was that the expansion draft? Or was so I
Speaker 1: was picked up? You have twelve guys, you could keep eight.
Speaker 1: Now we lost? Okay, I'm with the Spurs. We drafted
Speaker 1: David Robinson, but he couldn't play, went to the Naval
Speaker 1: So we don't really have a center because we have David.
Speaker 1: Did you guys have Tart with Tart the coach that year? No?
Speaker 1: I had. That was Bobby Wise. First. I was traded
Speaker 1: cotton Fit Simmons traded for me. I was two years
Speaker 1: in Seattle, went to my third camp Bernie Bickerstaff came in.
Speaker 1: Lenny Wilkins went up to be GM. I knew in
Speaker 1: training camp I'm either done in the league or I'll
Speaker 1: be somewhere else, because Bernie had his way of doing
Speaker 1: things more defensive oriented, wasn't Mike. I mean, I guarded
Speaker 1: as well as I could, but it didn't matter. So
Speaker 1: Cotton Fit Simmons traded for me. Then he was fired.
Speaker 1: We had Bobby Wisse, who really, for me, was my
Speaker 1: best coach. He didn't want to point guard, to run
Speaker 1: pick and roll. He wanted passing game perfect. I come up,
Speaker 1: I enter, you go through, you move it. So that
Speaker 1: that year, uh, the expansion came in, I started quite
Speaker 1: a bit of it. I had a stress fracture in
Speaker 1: my leg, my timby bone. It's like uh splints, and
Speaker 1: I played on it because back then, if I didn't,
Speaker 1: you thought you cut and you weren't getting paid. So
Speaker 1: I played on it. I think the Spurs thought that, actually, Bobby.
Speaker 1: We made the playoffs. We get beat by the Lakers.
Speaker 1: It was the Laker Lakers, right, the great Lakers, and
Speaker 1: I started. We get beating three games best of five.
Speaker 1: It was interesting because they could protect eight guys well obviously,
Speaker 1: everybody thought I was one of the eight, and I
Speaker 1: told my wife, I'm not sure. I'm not sure if
Speaker 1: they'll protect me, and she said, why wouldn't I well,
Speaker 1: I got this crack in my bone. It's got a heel.
Speaker 1: I don't know. So anyway, the list comes out and
Speaker 1: they don't protect me. And that night my agent calls
Speaker 1: Charlotte wants to see me. Miami wants to see me,
Speaker 1: but they want to see an X ray. Miami flies
Speaker 1: me down to see their doctor and they all said
Speaker 1: stay off your leg all summer really here, which is
Speaker 1: a killer for a guy that all I do is
Speaker 1: work out and run. And I got had my legs
Speaker 1: to shoot order to play. So anyway, the heat picked
Speaker 1: me up. We go down there. I wasn't in great shape.
Speaker 1: They picked me up to kind of be elite guard,
Speaker 1: but I wasn't in shape. I wasn't It wasn't good.
Speaker 1: So training camp was awkward. Then I decided I told
Speaker 1: my why we rented a furnished apartment downtown condominum. I said,
Speaker 1: we won't be here long. I'll be cut something. So
Speaker 1: I took the time, like the first few weeks of
Speaker 1: the season, when we got started to just get in shape.
Speaker 1: Wrote a bike to practice, Ran stayed after, Ran, wrote
Speaker 1: a bike back home, got my legs to where it
Speaker 1: was good. They were good, and we were bad as
Speaker 1: a team because you just took They took the youngest
Speaker 1: guys they could. We had old guys Rory Sparrow, Pat Cummings,
Speaker 1: Scott Hastings. Now we could play the they were gonna
Speaker 1: play the young guys. So in my world what happened
Speaker 1: was we were so bad offensively, so bad offensively that
Speaker 1: at one point they came and said, all right, Sobold,
Speaker 1: when you get in you gotta shoot. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: what do you mean, No, No, you're coming out of
Speaker 1: you don't shoot. You can shoot a running hook, you
Speaker 1: can shoot a running shot. We're setting picks for you.
Speaker 1: So I averaged double figures. I said, an NBA record
Speaker 1: fifty two from three point line, and literally, if I
Speaker 1: didn't shoot it ship they'd take me out because we
Speaker 1: were bad. But we started winning some games, having fun.
Speaker 1: I mean it was we knew the older guys knew
Speaker 1: that our job basically was to help the young guys. Right.
Speaker 1: This was the last. It was my sixth year, the
Speaker 1: last of my contract. I had a three year deal
Speaker 1: start with the next one was a three year, no guarantee,
Speaker 1: and I thought to my wife, this is it, Like,
Speaker 1: we'll just play this out. It's been fun. I'm on
Speaker 1: a serious roll through December, gonna be in the All
Speaker 1: Star shootout, scoring shooting. My agent call said, hey, I'm
Speaker 1: heading to my he's in Seattle, Stelle, I'm head to Miami.
Speaker 1: They want to sign a new deal, I said, A
Speaker 1: new deal, I said, And this was I thought the coach.
Speaker 1: The coach kind of wanted to trade me. To be honest. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're run and I got long, but he knew that
Speaker 1: young guys, and he was a defensive minded guy. And again,
Speaker 1: you know, I'd come in. I'd come in after the
Speaker 1: game we'd lose like eight, and I'd be like, dude,
Speaker 1: we gotta at the NBA. We need to score over Hunter.
Speaker 1: So we didn't maybe get along with some of that.
Speaker 1: It wasn't bad. So he said he was gonna play
Speaker 1: me to trade me, which makes you ornery, And I said,
Speaker 1: good right, good, so play me. So now you go
Speaker 1: on a role not my agents in town. I go
Speaker 1: out of town, come back. We go have dinner in
Speaker 1: Coconut grove. I'll there forget sitting outside of this a
Speaker 1: little mixt or Italian place. Here's a three year guaranteed deal. Uh,
Speaker 1: my wife's looking like, what do you mean guaranteed? He's
Speaker 1: got bad legs, he got bad shoulders. He was no guaranteed.
Speaker 1: And they're gonna pay you more to sign this than
Speaker 1: you're making that because they're under the salary camp. He said,
Speaker 1: but if you keep playing like this to be a
Speaker 1: free agent and the money's gonna jump next year. I said, hey,
Speaker 1: he didn't. He may not even play me the rest
Speaker 1: of the way, Like, I have no idea what's gonna
Speaker 1: go on. Anyway, we signed the deal because we like Miami.
Speaker 1: I had a great relationship with Cunningham, the Hall of Famer.
Speaker 1: Billy was part of the ownership group and was in
Speaker 1: charge of a little bit of basketball personnel. So Billy
Speaker 1: came to me and said, here's the deal. There might
Speaker 1: be some teams that need your services when we get
Speaker 1: close to trade deadline. He goes, every time they call
Speaker 1: for you, I'm you and I'll meet. We'll see if
Speaker 1: I said, hey, that's fair. I mean I loved my
Speaker 1: Miami was fun, right, I had no kids, off days.
Speaker 1: I was friends of every golf pro in the area. Uh.
Speaker 1: I think the first team that wanted me was the
Speaker 1: New Jersey Nets. So so Billy's at practice and he
Speaker 1: goes to stay here. He goes, Okay, uh Jet, the
Speaker 1: Nets are gonna give up a second und pick for you.
Speaker 1: He goes, I don't need any more draft picks. They've
Speaker 1: blown us up forever. So he looked at me, he goes,
Speaker 1: do you really want to go to New Jersey? They're
Speaker 1: gonna be the eighth seed. No play the Celtics. I said, well,
Speaker 1: I don't really want to go to I thought, so
Speaker 1: let's not go to Jersey. And then there was one
Speaker 1: more mult have been the Bucks for somebody, and there
Speaker 1: would have been a five seed, but they were gonna
Speaker 1: win the title. And again, when you're in Miami and
Speaker 1: you're thinking of going to Milwaukiere in New Jersey. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I told Billy, because Billy said, John, you're good for us.
Speaker 1: You do what you do, whether whether you play thirty
Speaker 1: minutes a night or no minutes a night, You go
Speaker 1: speak publicly for us, You help out the young guys.
Speaker 1: So and really, my, my, my last two years were
Speaker 1: just not any fun because I got hurt um my
Speaker 1: eighth year. I don't know how you get pneumonia, but
Speaker 1: I got pneumonia. I was in Jersey, not feeling well.
Speaker 1: It was a game before the All Star break. I'm
Speaker 1: playing a game against the Nets, and I am exhausted
Speaker 1: and can't. I mean, it's just awful. So sleep that night,
Speaker 1: really don't sleep. Everybody goes their own ways because it's
Speaker 1: All Star break. I get on a plane, get a blanket,
Speaker 1: go back to Miami and go to bed. My wife
Speaker 1: and I can't breathe can't. She gets me to the
Speaker 1: hospital the next day and I've got pneumonia. I don't
Speaker 1: know what the hell it was, but your luans are
Speaker 1: full of fluid. I didn't play the rest of year.
Speaker 1: They wouldn't let me in the gym. So that was
Speaker 1: that year. So what I did to get my lungs better.
Speaker 1: I trained, I got a buddy's, got a house in Bail, Colorado,
Speaker 1: went to Veil for two months and just ran in
Speaker 1: the hills. So now I got my lungs back. Go
Speaker 1: back for my ninth year, having issues with my neck.
Speaker 1: Played some games. I think it was the Celtics, maybe
Speaker 1: a game I don't know ten leven. I'm gonna come
Speaker 1: off for down three and Michael hits me in my shoulders.
Speaker 1: My neck goes back. I'm numb, like I'm numb. They
Speaker 1: could have thrown the ball shift it hit me. I'm numb.
Speaker 1: Tell the trainer, and trainer goes you, I've been watching
Speaker 1: you last two weeks. You got heat on your you know,
Speaker 1: I go take X rays. I got two discs that
Speaker 1: are jacked up, so next her. So I sat that
Speaker 1: whole year in a neck brace. For nowadays you have
Speaker 1: to wear a neck brace. Back then you were for
Speaker 1: about eight weeks, twenty four hours a day the heat.
Speaker 1: That was the first year the heat made the playoffs
Speaker 1: and I got to dress for the playoffs and I
Speaker 1: think I got in one minute, but I was not
Speaker 1: my neck. Wasn't you lose a little bit? And in
Speaker 1: the tenth year, I was going back with ten and
Speaker 1: I kind of decided with my doctor that maybe nine
Speaker 1: is good like it wasn't. If you lose a little bit,
Speaker 1: that's a lot at that level. And I couldn't quite
Speaker 1: see what I wanted to see. And every time I
Speaker 1: got hit, it was kind of like get my bell
Speaker 1: wrung because what goes from here to your body all
Speaker 1: goes through this channel. And it was just so. About
Speaker 1: three weeks before I told my wife and said, I
Speaker 1: think I'm done. I think I'm done. And now whether
Speaker 1: in my mind I thought I'm gonna beat them from
Speaker 1: cutting me or you know, I don't know what I
Speaker 1: was thinking, but I thought at the time, you know what, Uh,
Speaker 1: every year in camp was harder because there were more
Speaker 1: six four dudes and six five dudes that were a
Speaker 1: camp and you know, it's just another battle. But uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: so the last two years weren't's fun. But you know,
Speaker 1: your body is your body. You try to survive, but
Speaker 1: it's tough when when you officially like walked away, right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was feeling like that was weird. The heat. The
Speaker 1: heat offered me. Do you want to be in coaching
Speaker 1: or in the front office? Um. My wife was pregnant.
Speaker 1: It was in the fall of ninety two with our
Speaker 1: first child. We lived in Coral Gables, close to University
Speaker 1: of Miami. I liked it, but again we were both
Speaker 1: Midwest people. My wife from the southeast corner of Missouri
Speaker 1: called the Booth Hill not far from Memphis. I said, okay,
Speaker 1: boy or girl we have Can you let them ride
Speaker 1: their bike down to that park just to block away
Speaker 1: from where we live? She was not not here, like
Speaker 1: it's different. I said, okay, then we'd have to move
Speaker 1: up somewhere in a gated community and all that. And
Speaker 1: I had already had my license and investment business kind
Speaker 1: of thought. I mean, it was nothing I knew much about,
Speaker 1: except I thought it was pretty cool Wall Street Man
Speaker 1: and my dad didn't have any money. We have money,
Speaker 1: but I kind of always thought, I don't even know
Speaker 1: what it is. So I told my wife I was licensed.
Speaker 1: I said, let's go back to Missouri. We have a condo,
Speaker 1: and then we'll figure out what we'll do. And like
Speaker 1: any athlete, I came back home. I worked at an
Speaker 1: investment firm. I'm doing radio for Missouri. But on those
Speaker 1: quiet nights with my wife's sleeping, there were times I
Speaker 1: would go to the old field House on the campus
Speaker 1: of Missouri. You know that's open for students, and I
Speaker 1: was shooting and I was running, thinking I could still
Speaker 1: do I could still go do this right, this is
Speaker 1: what I do. And you don't. You don't get it
Speaker 1: out of your head until at some point you just
Speaker 1: say what are you doing right? You can't. This isn't
Speaker 1: what you're gonna do. But it doesn't. It doesn't leave
Speaker 1: you because when you're when you're when you're gone from that,
Speaker 1: you're going from that locker room. You're going from all
Speaker 1: those things that you liked, besides the competition, the guys
Speaker 1: in that room, right, the guys that go to battle
Speaker 1: and in the NBA it's not as tight as college,
Speaker 1: but it is because you you understand each other that
Speaker 1: tomorrow that guy's traded, right, I mean, it's the it's
Speaker 1: the hardest business. And so you missed that stuff. And
Speaker 1: when you miss that stuff, you think, should I go
Speaker 1: back and try it? Aget? Could I still go do
Speaker 1: what I did? And I could have. My legs were
Speaker 1: still fine, but at some point I just was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: now I'm done. So then it was on to the
Speaker 1: next thing. What do I do? And it was you know,
Speaker 1: doing the radio for Missouri was fine, but I didn't
Speaker 1: really like doing one team. I didn't like doing the
Speaker 1: same team every night. Like, I'm not a fanatic, So
Speaker 1: I don't blame the referees for losing a game. If
Speaker 1: it's my team, right, Missouri's my team. You know, hey,
Speaker 1: you lost, you lost, Let's go home, all right. And
Speaker 1: so I was curious. It wasn't me that got me
Speaker 1: into TV jokes. Stig Leon got me into TV. Joe
Speaker 1: was assistinat at Missouri. Joe came and yeah, there was
Speaker 1: probably five TV games that Missouri did on Missouri package.
Speaker 1: He said, hey, I want you to do these TV games.
Speaker 1: And I've already called Ray Calm and told them you
Speaker 1: should do some Big twelve or Big eight games. I said, really,
Speaker 1: He goes, no, no, really, he said, you go do
Speaker 1: these Missouri games. I'm gonna I'm gonna take the tape.
Speaker 1: I'm Senator Ray Calm. I think they'll call you. So
Speaker 1: that's how I got into that. As far as you know,
Speaker 1: doing games, best player you ever saw play an NBA game,
Speaker 1: they're gonna play. Yes, my size or any size. Just
Speaker 1: I'm just it's a very open question. You can. So
Speaker 1: here's how I mean. I came into probably the greatest
Speaker 1: era of basketball. Uh three, it's the it's it's the
Speaker 1: it's the perfect level of magic. And Burke right never
Speaker 1: see anything like it. Watched them at their best, played
Speaker 1: against them when they had games that I shook my
Speaker 1: head I shook my head at because everybody's at this
Speaker 1: level and the great ones just moving a notch up.
Speaker 1: But I also played. Kareem was in l A. Dr
Speaker 1: J was in Philly and in his career but still
Speaker 1: Dr Ju. When he said when he introduced himself to
Speaker 1: me and he knew my name was John and he
Speaker 1: introduced himself as Julius. Again no cell phones, but I
Speaker 1: I want to go, holy sh it, like he knows
Speaker 1: who I So, I mean, so I would say this
Speaker 1: if you gave me a player. And again I played
Speaker 1: against Michael in college, was on the Playball American team
Speaker 1: with him. Got to know him. Michael's Michael. But if
Speaker 1: you someone called the other day said who would you
Speaker 1: take Michael o'bron, I said, if you gave me a pick,
Speaker 1: give me a pick. I'm taking Magic Johnson. If you
Speaker 1: give me a pick and then you know, then we'll
Speaker 1: pick the other four. Give me Magic because I've never
Speaker 1: seen anything like what he could do at whatever position.
Speaker 1: People for Gutty played center when they won the World Championship.
Speaker 1: When Kareem got hurt, he had forty two points in
Speaker 1: the post. You I also you know I also played
Speaker 1: when Bird would come to San Antonio and just talk
Speaker 1: trash that you didn't know he was talking. I knew
Speaker 1: he was talking because I'm on the court. And then
Speaker 1: when you come out. We had Don Booze was our
Speaker 1: assistant coach, and Don Boozy played thirteen years A B
Speaker 1: A N B. A. Boozy's from Indiana. He's a buddy
Speaker 1: of birds. I'd come out, I'd sitting sitting next to
Speaker 1: Boozy on the bench, and Bird would come down the
Speaker 1: court and say, hey, boom off the glass for all net.
Speaker 1: Now our coach conference Simmons would be up aways, couldn't
Speaker 1: hear him, and Boom would put his off the glass.
Speaker 1: And again, I'm twenty five years old sitting there. Bourd
Speaker 1: would catch it. Boom boom off the glass. Net wink
Speaker 1: over at him. No, I mean, I think the guys
Speaker 1: at that level. But okay, let's go back. I was
Speaker 1: in Seattle when Bernard King gave this uh Portland trailblazerste
Speaker 1: one night and fifty the next night to us. Couldn't
Speaker 1: No one could guard him. I saw much Seattle before
Speaker 1: he heard his knees undersized post. Who's that? You know what?
Speaker 1: He could play anywhere? He didn't shoot it very deep,
Speaker 1: but he could. He could. He hit the release was
Speaker 1: so fast it was a turnaround. So there were so
Speaker 1: many guys, but okay, I'll go back. Who was the
Speaker 1: toughest guy I would have to fi guard outside of
Speaker 1: being matched up, like if I was on Buddy, I
Speaker 1: got switched on magic. Isaiah Thomas was the best. Isaiah
Speaker 1: was the best at my size. And Isaiah could do
Speaker 1: things with the ball that were just magical, like he'd
Speaker 1: come down and he might figure eight the damn ball
Speaker 1: in front of you. And the only hope I had
Speaker 1: Doug was if he made a move and then he
Speaker 1: spun back to me right like he made a move,
Speaker 1: spun back to me, and I'm like, God, I'm really
Speaker 1: good now and not really but but uh, here's a
Speaker 1: good story. I went to University of Iowa basketball camp
Speaker 1: ninth grade. My high school coach had just moved from
Speaker 1: Iowa or the varsity coach is gonna be so he
Speaker 1: takes me up to Iowa. Lude Olson and they're from Chicago,
Speaker 1: was his baby faced Isaiah Thomas. Right. So in camp,
Speaker 1: here's Isaiah and Kenny Arnold who played at i all
Speaker 1: these Chicago kids. I left that camp and went back home,
Speaker 1: and I thought there must be a thousand Isaiah Thomas
Speaker 1: like my My whole world changed by the thought of
Speaker 1: how much I better practice to be good. Now there's
Speaker 1: only one, but I thought there were thousands. I thought,
Speaker 1: God and I am so far behind the dudes of
Speaker 1: my neighborhood. Aren't like these dudes. And what I started
Speaker 1: doing when I got my license to drive, from like
Speaker 1: Blue Springs is thirty miles into Kansas City, I would
Speaker 1: drive and go play in the playgrounds in summer. My
Speaker 1: other buddies are playing baseball. I drove into playing the
Speaker 1: playgrounds because in my mind all the way up till
Speaker 1: ever was there's a thousand Isaiah Thomas is out there,
Speaker 1: only one, but he was the best. Just it. It's saying, Okay,
Speaker 1: you gotta guard him too hard. Best pro coach here
Speaker 1: in playot or they're also different, Uh you know, Lenny
Speaker 1: Lenny was. Lenny Wilkins was probably good for me. I
Speaker 1: wish you'd probably been tougher so that I understood it more.
Speaker 1: I like playing Cotton Fitz Simmons was terrific for me.
Speaker 1: Bobby Weiss was the best for me because of the
Speaker 1: yeah from the passing game, and I played with artists. Gillmore,
Speaker 1: Mike Mitchell was an All Star. Alvin Robertson, the Arkansas
Speaker 1: player was an All Star. Uh, we were we were good,
Speaker 1: but we missed at one point. We missed the center.
Speaker 1: But he was over at the naval A can like
Speaker 1: if you had him. Anyway, when I left, What's funny
Speaker 1: is when I left there, Larry Brown took over, and
Speaker 1: Larry tried to get me back to San Antonio from
Speaker 1: Miami because they missed that piece. But anyway, Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: all the coaches are different, the NBA is different. It's
Speaker 1: just different. It's uh, you're all in the same group.
Speaker 1: And for the most part, the players feel it when
Speaker 1: a coach gets fired because you fired him, right, coach
Speaker 1: gets fired. That's what college kids don't understand. And I've
Speaker 1: said that to other groups of college kids and like, hey,
Speaker 1: we've got a new coach. I said, yeah, you just
Speaker 1: lost the last guy's job. So you guys aren't that good.
Speaker 1: You know, new guys coming in. He's gonna ship you
Speaker 1: out of here somehow. But that's I think that's the
Speaker 1: challenge and the challenge when you're trying to have a
Speaker 1: career at it is how do you figure out how
Speaker 1: to play or how to survive? And most guys in
Speaker 1: training camp I thought, Doug that they cut themselves, tried
Speaker 1: to do something they weren't. You know, if a kid
Speaker 1: was in training camp from Villanova and he's known as
Speaker 1: a good default guard and about the first week of
Speaker 1: camp he's shown him he's trying to be Michael Jordan's.
Speaker 1: I mean I could, I'd sit there and think, Okay,
Speaker 1: he's gonna be gone. He's gone. You know, do what
Speaker 1: you do and do it well. Brothers do what they do.
Speaker 1: Amateurs trying to prove what they can't do. They can
Speaker 1: do and and and rue and you gotta elevate you.
Speaker 1: You gotta keep working on what Yes, it was, But
Speaker 1: there was no difference in the way I shot the ball.
Speaker 1: Every year I was better, Like I was better every year,
Speaker 1: range was better. Every sport is about accuracy, no matter
Speaker 1: what the sports about accuracy. And then it's about how
Speaker 1: fast can you do that at an accurate level? Right now?
Speaker 1: Some people aren't as athletic to do it at a
Speaker 1: higher level. But if I could make a shot, then
Speaker 1: how fast can I make the shot? How fast? And
Speaker 1: my foot how how fast are my feet moving? What's
Speaker 1: the footwork? And how quick sur release from my waist
Speaker 1: to the shot? How fast is that? Can I do
Speaker 1: it with a hand in my face or hands down?
Speaker 1: I mean that's and I think most pros I played with,
Speaker 1: not all, but most pros were driven that way, like
Speaker 1: you don't have to make anybody do anything, and all
Speaker 1: you have to do in the summer was trying how
Speaker 1: do I make my game better? And for me it
Speaker 1: was probably more defensively. I did just get better defensively.
Speaker 1: That was tough, all right. Last thing as a guy
Speaker 1: who was a great shooter, Um, when you watch Steph Curry,
Speaker 1: because the thing that amazed me about Curry it's not
Speaker 1: as much the range. The range is incredible, but that
Speaker 1: does feel like a natural evolution. It's a different type
Speaker 1: of shot, yes, um, but it's he told me something
Speaker 1: a long time ago, which is interesting. He's like, you know, people,
Speaker 1: I want to compare my era with other eras, Like
Speaker 1: I've never walked onto a basketfloor that didn't have a
Speaker 1: three point line. It's like what people have to understand.
Speaker 1: It is like all those other guys. So, in addition
Speaker 1: to the coaches, not necessarily embracing the value three point
Speaker 1: shot like players themselves, like we were all taught very
Speaker 1: different game. The spacing is different, the movements different or whatever.
Speaker 1: But what the other part, the release time is incredible
Speaker 1: at that range and that accuracy and then not just
Speaker 1: catching catching shoot incredibly quick going right and going left right,
Speaker 1: Like everybody remember Sedale three, Like Sedale three was with
Speaker 1: it that when Magic had to retire, Sedale was like
Speaker 1: their point guard and it was if you put it,
Speaker 1: he went left. It was in, yeah, you went right,
Speaker 1: catch shoot in going left. This guy goes left and right.
Speaker 1: But at the end, that's as a guy who wasn't
Speaker 1: a good shooter, as a great shooter. When you watch him,
Speaker 1: what do you see? What? What? What goes through your well?
Speaker 1: The first thing, I mean the ability to make shots
Speaker 1: or freakish from the range. Now again that's evolution, but
Speaker 1: it's also he changed how guys shoot it a little bit,
Speaker 1: uh kind of twist. It's it's a push shot. You
Speaker 1: kind of push it right. Not a guy who has
Speaker 1: the old traditional jump shot would be Devin Booker jumps
Speaker 1: up shoots it. That's kind of what our generation was.
Speaker 1: Jump up shooting. Uh, curries is more all the way
Speaker 1: up quicker right, it's not at the peak of his jump,
Speaker 1: and other guys have mimicked and copied that. And again
Speaker 1: you have better range because you're you're not jumping and
Speaker 1: shooting at the top of the jump. So but it's freakish.
Speaker 1: And how accurate again, right or left, it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: off the dribble, off the pass, how quick the releases.
Speaker 1: But it goes back to how accurate. And then again
Speaker 1: the evolution is how fast can you be accurate? And
Speaker 1: it's and say, guys in my era or his dad Dell,
Speaker 1: you can catch it and release it so fast. All
Speaker 1: of us could do that, like you could just get
Speaker 1: rid of it. There was no space. I mean I
Speaker 1: never worried about a space a guy dealing. I mean,
Speaker 1: if a guy was in front of me, I was
Speaker 1: gonna I had no problem because his hand probably wasn't
Speaker 1: gonna get the ball. The only one I worried about
Speaker 1: it if you went up to shoot it and the
Speaker 1: guy went beside you, I didn't know where he was, right,
Speaker 1: I didn't know where the ant was, and I would
Speaker 1: and because of that I used to go to the
Speaker 1: side of shooters, like if you're trailing someone's gonna shoot
Speaker 1: the jump shot. I'd go to the side because you
Speaker 1: didn't know whether if he's in front of me, I
Speaker 1: don't I gotta shoot it higher whatever. I can shoot
Speaker 1: it around this. But the guy that went to the
Speaker 1: side of you, I'm now you're thinking, is he is
Speaker 1: he blocking it from it? I mean the nemesis for
Speaker 1: a guy like me would be like a Michael Cooper
Speaker 1: played for the Liers. Right six six long gave me space,
Speaker 1: but he knew he could get to that space, right.
Speaker 1: I knew when when came in the game and he
Speaker 1: saw me, I'm like, yes, I'm a bit here. You
Speaker 1: get a switch here. Switch. He's not taking like a playoff, right,
Speaker 1: he's he's in to play defense. And you'd rather have
Speaker 1: like George Gurban would come in and George is gonna say, like,
Speaker 1: you'd make a shot on Gurban and he'd giggle and say,
Speaker 1: man has a good shot, and then you'd go down
Speaker 1: the other end and score, and then leave you open
Speaker 1: and you'd score. You know, those games were like one
Speaker 1: forty two to one thirty coach coach Brother in law ball.
Speaker 1: You guys playing brother in law ball and let each
Speaker 1: other score and you know, but if a defender, can
Speaker 1: you know Michael Cooper came in and went here we
Speaker 1: go like, I gotta figure out to run him off
Speaker 1: a screen or do something because he's he gave you nothing,
Speaker 1: like gave you Nothing's been awesome with your time. I
Speaker 1: want to schedule one. I want to talk more about
Speaker 1: the financial aspect of it, and then I want to
Speaker 1: talk about broadcasting and that that entire journey because I
Speaker 1: think you know I've I've told you I'll always appreciated
Speaker 1: what you've done, you more so now doing it and
Speaker 1: taking bits a piece of how you've done it. But
Speaker 1: I want to kind of tease that I want to
Speaker 1: give anything that away. Um, let's let's do that again soon.
Speaker 1: But thank you so much for your time. Hey, have
Speaker 1: a good one. Where are you going this week? Uh?
Speaker 1: Texas Texas Tech? Oh my god, Oh my god, that'll
Speaker 1: be great. Hey great, I'm doing radio flo it but
Speaker 1: it's awesome. Um. And then I got Santa Clara. I
Speaker 1: think it's Santa Clara, San Francisco. And then I'm taking
Speaker 1: my son and our team to still Water this weekend.
Speaker 1: We're gonna practice Friday night, We're gonna go to bedlam
Speaker 1: and then we're playing in a tournament in Norman. So
Speaker 1: get him, give him a kind of look of what
Speaker 1: it what it feels like, what it tastes like. It's
Speaker 1: pretty cool, that's pretty cool. We have fun. Hey, be
Speaker 1: safe when you travel. Holler me anytime. We'll do it.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. All right, that's Part two with
Speaker 1: John sun Bold. In the meantime, remember to listen to
Speaker 1: Doug out the Show three to six Eastern time on
Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio or the I Heart Radio app. I'm
Speaker 1: Doug leave In. This is all bol