WEBVTT - Pt. 2 SEC Network Analyst & Former NBA Guard Jon Sundvold on College Mobility Era, Draft Night, '80's Sonics, NBA Survival Lessons 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:09.080 Hey, what up. Welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlieb. You're listening 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:12.879 to all Ball, all ball stories all the time. Thanks 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:14.720 so much for tuning in. If you miss part one 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:17.320 of our sit down with John sun Bold, you should 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:20.720 go back and listen to. It's pretty fifth fascinating um 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:24.320 growing up, why Missouri, how he chose it, playing for 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:29.840 playing for norm. This is part two, and we're gonna 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:32.480 get to get to what it was like to play 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:35.640 in the NBA and how he lasted in the n 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:39.480 b A and calling it quits in the NBA. Before 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:41.199 we get to that, I'll give you some quick thoughts 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:42.840 on a couple of teams that I've gotten a chance 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:47.240 to see in person. I'm blown away by Kentucky's transition 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:52.559 game on offense and having seen them against Auburn and 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:54.320 seeing him against A and M, and then see him 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:57.279 against Kansas, who they blew out. I think the one 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:00.080 thing that teams have to realize, and most have, is 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:03.720 you have to press them to slow him down, because man, 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:06.280 you get Wheeler going full head of steam. If not 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:08.880 he throws the ball ahead, they gets you back pedaling. 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:12.960 They're so skilled, so athletics, so smart and talented. That's 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:16.000 a really good team. You have to make them a 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:18.440 half court team if you want to beat him. Bill 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:21.640 self tries some triangle to that didn't really work. The 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:25.600 zone was relatively effective, man and man was not really effective, 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:28.040 but mostly because they struggled to get back in transition. 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:30.000 You know, it's one of those things where I do 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:33.520 think that John cal Perry may not be the like 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:36.440 best excello coach of all time, but he's definitely a 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:38.600 very good coach. There's a lot of things he does 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:42.240 really well, and he's changed and evolved, and this team 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:45.000 is not just good and talented, they're very good and 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:48.920 very well coached. As for Kansas, I still think, and 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:51.440 of course when I'm recording this, this is after they whooped, 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:55.440 I would stay without Bogi. I still think they're the 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:57.800 team to beat in the Big twelve. And he's amazing 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:01.080 at figuring out kind of the math puzzle for his 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:04.880 team and how he can get him to win. But 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:06.960 I would also point out that, you know, this is 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:08.920 a program that's not used to the portal, and it 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:11.720 feels like they made they made some mistakes in the 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:14.880 portal they didn't need to make. They took several guards. 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:18.120 None of them are really contributing, not just from me Martin, 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:21.000 but a chef who kid from Drake. I don't understand 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:24.400 some of the selections and maybe you're just looking for depth. 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:27.520 They don't have depth inside, and they do have a 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:30.320 depth in the back court that he doesn't seemingly trust. 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:35.519 So that element to it is at least interesting, if 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:38.519 if nothing else, and and kind of classic Bill self. 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:40.840 They'll probably win the league, they'll probably be overseated and 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:43.160 they won't get to a final four, and people say 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:46.040 they choked, And the truth is that his coaching and 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:48.360 what they're able to do and put guys and his 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:51.160 ability to win that league covered up for the fact 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:55.440 that they're not nearly as talented as as some of 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:58.239 these teams are. UM I was at Texas and Texas 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:04.360 Texas tech I I I don't hate Texas. Um I 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:07.080 think you have one of the problems when you're running 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:09.000 a motion offense and you bring so many new guys 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:11.720 in is not a lot of guys play motion offense 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:16.880 and they all have It's like they're all they're all 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:19.280 open box guys and you've never even been the best 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:21.800 buy and you get some open box. The box has 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:23.440 already been open. Now you could say the same thing 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:27.560 about Texas Tech that as seven new players. Um, I 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:31.440 think their defense is incredible. I think their offense is okay, 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:35.960 But I don't necessarily believe that Texas has the personnel 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:38.880 for how how he wants to play for Texas Tech 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:42.120 incredible on defense, I mark Adams is a not a 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:45.680 good a great defensive coach. They're as good at in 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:47.280 terms of playing the way they want to play a 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:50.320 hard pick up, full court, get you to the half court, 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:52.840 keep you to one side, pressure forced to the baseline. 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:55.080 That's where the help is. Doubling from the baseline and 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:58.600 post catches pretty outstanding. And then you factor in that 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:01.080 that place is a zoo. Now, I think they can 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:04.360 keep it going. I think he's an incredible coach, and 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:06.880 that junior college background only helps him. You know, take 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:09.600 guys from all different sorts of pots and melt them 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:12.960 in and make make some kind of stew. Texas eventually 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:15.840 will be fine. This year, the probably NC a terman team, 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:17.839 and as he gets the future years, so get guys 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:21.200 that fit better. But Texas texts the interesting one because 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:25.080 Adams has used what Beard built and built on it. 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:28.400 It's pretty awesome. All right. Let's get to John sun Bold. 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:31.880 When we last talked to him, he was done as 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.400 a college player. How did he lasts as long as 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:40.599 a pro. Here's part two with John Sunfold. You know 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:43.000 it was what well, my you know, my brother coaches 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:45.320 and he always says that she always the player led 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:47.599 team is a good team, you know when you have 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:50.160 with there, And that's kind of the magic to it 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:53.240 a little bit. You know, we had you could talk 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:55.960 back to coach, you could, you could, you can snap 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:58.680 back in, you know, at your own peril and you 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:02.560 better you better be right, you know, um, and you 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:04.680 better have some another player to kind of have your back. 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:08.000 You can talk back to coach. But you know, we 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:11.479 we had. And this is where I think, I think 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:14.760 the sport is missing. And I'm not one of these. 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:17.880 It was always better in the olden days, right, but 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:21.680 the sport is missing the continuity of playing two and 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:25.080 three and four and five years together. One the bonds, 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:27.839 the bonds you build are unbelievable. But but just in 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:32.080 terms of the sport, We're playing the Sweet sixteam Syracuse 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:38.039 in front of forty people against seen all and they 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:43.000 played that year, Um, Tommy Emikers the coach. They would 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:44.960 switch between a man and man and they would play 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:47.320 wasn't a triangle to the guard three and not guard too? 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:49.120 Kind of like Tim Floyd sometimes would do a little 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:52.880 bit and um. But but they were kind of getting 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:56.120 screwed up by what we were doing. And so because 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:58.080 we had a guy named Brian Mortin and is now 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:00.479 a high school coach and tulsa very good air six 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:03.119 ten shooter. Uh, it kind of screwed him up because 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:07.840 now we had four shooters and me, you know. Um, 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:13.280 and so we call at a time out, I said, hey, 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:16.640 let's run cyclone. And cyclones are just a play where 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:18.479 we set a ball screen on one side. They swing 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:20.680 it to me and they said, a double backscreen for 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:22.880 the ball screener. We called cyclone because we took it 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:25.160 from Tim Floyd my sophomore year and put it in 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.400 and we ran it to death my sophomore year. We 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:30.120 ran to death my junior we had never practiced it. 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:34.240 We had never once gone dry five on o on it. 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:36.920 My senior season. It was not part of what we did. 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:40.040 But I just said, hey, look like, let's run cyclone. 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:42.919 I remember it like, yeah, like who what, Like, go 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:45.000 to Joe because a hardheage on that and then swing 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:46.400 it to me and we'll get and we got like 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:49.360 three layps on it. We also called I called an 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:52.359 inbounds play that we hadn't run in two years, and 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:54.800 we got a couple of layups and open shots on it, 0:06:55.360 --> 0:07:01.720 and it was like one. It's the it's the cohesiveness 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:05.000 of guys also to the level of basketball. I you 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:08.400 that was needed and demanded, and not everybody came in 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:10.920 as a smart basketball player, right, Yeah, I agree with you, 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:14.440 But it's more like, hey, if you're going to play, 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:18.360 you have to be able to defend and rebound, but 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:21.040 you better know what trick you're doing, right. You got 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:22.280 to be in the right place at the right time. 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:23.760 You don't have to make the shop. You better know 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:26.760 what you're supposed to be. And I think that's really 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:30.640 those are things that are really hard now as the 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:32.760 world has said, like, hey, these kids have to be 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:36.440 able to move and like, yeah, but there's part part 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:38.920 of the magic to it that I think set you 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:41.440 up for success. But I also think makes the process 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:45.200 more enjoyable is that, Hey, there was a time where 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:48.240 you know, like Bryan moon Nutey again, he didn't play 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:53.280 thirteen games, didn't they didn't take off the sweats thirteen games. 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:56.080 Our sophomore year we came in together. He transferred from 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:58.680 Tortune Jr. College. Didn't play. Now he made the big 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:00.640 free throws beat Oklahoma. They carey him off the court. 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:02.760 But there were thirteen times which he did not play 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:06.440 in the game. On my senior year, he was amazing, right, 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:09.680 And that's like what it's supposed to be about. And 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:11.640 I just don't know if we I don't think we 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:14.400 can ever get it back. And I don't know why 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:16.360 we took that out of the sport. I don't think 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:18.840 you can. It goes back to, Okay, you played for 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:23.480 a tough coach. Um. When you play a place three 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:27.160 or four years, you take on the personality of that guy. Right. 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:31.120 So when Norm's good teams at Missouri were usually junior 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:36.080 senior laden teams, no different than my squads. When we 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:39.480 were using juniors and senior we walked into Alan field 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:43.640 House like the old man and our coach. Right, bring 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:48.040 it on f all you people. It doesn't matter. And 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:51.080 you get that only because you're you're built for that. 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:54.400 You weren't built for that when you're young, right. Uh. 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:56.400 An example, when I was a freshman, I mean, you know, 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:59.760 just scrimmaging here, I am just scrimmage and freshman on 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.520 the break all American Larry Drew throws me the ball. 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:05.880 I shoot it. Norm blows the whistle stops it. Why 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:07.839 the hell would you shoot that shot? I don't have 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:09.760 an answer for him. I have no answer for why 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:13.360 I would shoot it. Now, fast forward to my senior year. 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:15.720 I was on the World Cup team. Come back from 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:21.160 South America where we played, Uh, come back. We're practicing, 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:24.920 back and forth, back and forth. I pull up and 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:28.120 just fire one in. He blows a whistle, stops the practice. 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:31.000 Why do you shoot it? I said, because I'll make 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:37.920 that some bitch. He says, exactly right it. But do 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:41.000 we have kids like that today? Because if you bounce, 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:44.600 if you played for three different coaches and bounced around 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:47.120 a lot of places, you're not gonna get it. You're 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:51.319 not gonna have it. And the feeling you'd have is gosh, 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:53.520 this is too hard. I may do something somewhere else. 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:56.200 And that's the challenge. I mean, that's the biggest challenge, 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:58.840 because you know, you go, you know you you still 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:00.560 you're around the college game and you you go do 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:03.720 games and see it. I go to practices. Coaches aren't 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:05.600 the same as they used to be. I don't mean 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:08.720 all of them, but the guys aren't like they used 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.800 like like they'd like to coach, no doubt. I mean 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:15.040 they can't be They can't be as tough because they 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:20.000 worry about the reaction that kids gonna have. Um My 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:23.319 guy never you know, worried about the reaction. This isn't 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:26.280 even he, but he used, he said, he famously would 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:30.840 talk to other other players. He would he would say 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:33.400 things to other guys on other teams. And what's weird 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:36.160 is we've gotten this magnet coaches like, don't talk to 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:38.800 my players. Don't don't don't. Don't you talk to my players? 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:43.680 Like what we do? You know that? What was that 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:46.120 experience like when he would be talking to the other 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:48.400 team's best players and say something to it and there 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:50.959 was a like a back and forth there a little bit. Well, 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:53.040 normal was a psychology guy. I mean it was a 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:56.440 psychology guy. It was all basically, well, you go back 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:59.360 to golf. Norm would put it like, okay, if this 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:03.080 twelve and thirteen handicapper can't break eighty right, he's in 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:07.560 his he can't break. So we're gonna take that player 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:11.320 over there, and he averages ten a games. See if 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:13.080 he can get twenty five. I don't care if he 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:15.960 makes two on you don't guard him. Now, guard him 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:18.880 within reason, But he's gonna We're gonna see if he's cycling. 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:23.520 His was all psychological with the officials, with opponents, uh, 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:26.559 and with his own team. I how about this. I'm 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:28.760 now in the starting lineup as a freshman tenth in 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:31.760 the country, were ranked. Colorado comes into the hern center, 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:35.319 no shot clock, no three point line. Remember, they're gonna 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:38.040 they're gonna stall the game on us. I mean they 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:40.600 get the tip or we might have scored right away, 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:44.640 they're gonna just hold the ball. Well, they screwed up. 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:46.960 We go down to score. They screwed up, We go 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:49.800 down to score. I'm guarding a Gavin named Jojo Hunter, 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:52.760 kid from maybe Baltimore. All American are all big eight 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:56.760 player Uh Colorado, that's my assignment. He's their best player. 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:00.559 Scored half his twenty six or twenty eight of four 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:05.839 they got four points. You come in the locker room 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:08.200 and you make the turn and I'm gonna take a 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:11.040 bite out of an orange. Right, I got an orange slice. 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:14.360 I drew the Americans next to me, Norm comes in 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:17.640 and goes ballistic. He goes, I've never had a guy 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:20.199 ever had a guy in history played for me or 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:25.600 the university that his guy scored all the points. And 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:28.920 I look up and he goes, fucking Joe Joe Hunters 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:31.360 got sucking every point that they I mean, the dude 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:34.079 is too for eight, right, and now the other guys. 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:37.080 Because I'm this freshman, I kind of put the orange down. 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:40.240 Larry Drew said, hey, coach Sonny, Sony will do better 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:42.480 next half. I mean, first of all, I mean it's 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:45.280 to four, but he just you know, it was all 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:49.480 it was psychological stuff and appointance. And I think older 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:53.360 coaches had that. I mean, today's world is so different. 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:56.040 It's just so different. Again, not that it was better 0:12:56.120 --> 0:12:57.880 or worse. I'd love to play in today's world the 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:01.000 way it's played up and down pace. I could run 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:04.439 all the shoot shots for three or two or I 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:07.680 would love to play in this system. But I don't 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:11.480 know if you learn as much life skills as the 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:16.360 old man taught me. Right, His deal was life's not easy. 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:19.360 It's not gonna be easy. So why should I why 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:22.040 should there be any advantage for you guys being here? 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.840 You're justice student, I get to play basketball. But you're 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:29.400 no different than you know. And it's true, right you 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:32.680 go coach and coach that he would you think this 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:35.679 is hard. Life is hard. You can make it through 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:37.920 this practice, you will make it in life. That was 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:40.400 That was just that. But what I worry more about 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:44.080 today's student athletes is when you're done, all the stuff 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:46.440 that's done for him today. And again I'm not against it, 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:48.600 but all the stuff that's done when they're done, that 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:53.240 all ends like it all and they're looking Okay, I 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:57.360 didn't know how to No, it's nuts, and I think 0:13:57.360 --> 0:13:59.679 it's a they're going the wrong direction if they want 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:02.360 to help kid. This is this is this this, this 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:05.319 is a great part of the discussion. Okay, So I 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:08.319 obviously you were a great player game, an NBA player, 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:12.319 and now you got into the financial world and been 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:17.240 successful in it. Um. But my biggest issue with the 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:21.840 transferring and and look I transferred, Okay, I got in trouble, 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:24.800 but I was contemplating transferring. I was likely to go 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:26.960 back for at least one more year. And who knows 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:29.960 I would have transferred anyway, but I I transferred, So 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:32.600 i'm and so I understand. I didn't go to the 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:34.800 high school I was supposed to go to because it 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:38.240 was better coached. I went to public school ten minutes away, 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:40.400 but I stayed back a year. Like again, like all 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:43.640 these things that people are doing now like I did. 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:48.480 So I'm not telling you that it's always wrong, but 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:52.360 the multiple transfers. Here's the thing when you get down playing. 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:54.480 In addition to all these things that are done for 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:55.680 you and hand it to you, now you have to 0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:58.120 go out and do in your own You're like, holy crap, right, 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:01.440 But it's the who do you call? Right? Like if 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:06.320 your financial business goes tomorrow? Right like you investment and 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:11.000 everybody pulls their money. Okay, you're gonna call the Maszoo guys. 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:14.320 And he said, hey, man, I need a job. I 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:17.240 need to get my if if my job goes away, 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:21.400 I know exactly, I know ten donors who I'm gonna call, like, 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:23.400 tell me what I can do to give me some 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:25.080 And I wouldn't say I need a job. I would 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:27.280 just say, like, I don't know if you've been in 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:29.920 the situation. But give me some guidance on if you 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:32.240 were me, what you would do and the calls you 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:34.200 would make and what you do. Right. You have a 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:38.400 and you have a basketball fan, right, right, So, and 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:39.960 if you want to go into coaching, you go into 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:43.320 coaching with that basketball tree. You've got guys playing at 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:48.800 four schools. Four What alumni game invites a guy who's 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:51.920 been been there for a week? Right? Who do you like? 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:56.040 You're not synonymous with You're synonymous with Missouri. I'm synonymous 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:58.880 with Oaklahom. Mistake, Guys, you gotta play somewhere two or 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:03.480 three years in order to have kind of that sweat equity. 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:08.000 And we've we've completely eliminated. You know, you have people 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:11.480 who are in our position or even bigger stages than 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:16.520 what we do now platforms who do not ever translate 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:19.800 the value in it, the value in being a part 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:23.000 of something for longer and sticking out the tough times, 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:25.680 even if it's not for the betterment of your career, 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:29.720 your immediate career. And I don't know why that's not 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:33.600 a spoken value. I don't really understand that. Yeah, And 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:35.640 the other part is, I don't know if there can 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:40.040 be the truth. The truth pill is a difficult one, right, 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:43.880 the truth of your game as a player. That that's 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:46.720 the hard part for kids, and coaches have a hard 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:49.000 time with it because they don't want a kid to transfer, 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:52.040 They don't want a kid to leave. But if they're 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:55.040 really honest, and we're all most of these kids are 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:58.240 playing the next level. Whatever left. You're not playing now. 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:02.520 Some can be a paid pro. Some that's great. But 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:06.640 in order to understand that truth, that's a tough one 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:08.800 because no one really gives them the truth. There's some 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:13.080 bloody on the outside saying you're gonna if you played 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:17.520 somewhere else, you'll you know, you can play at this league. 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:19.480 You can play. Look at that guy over there, heap 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:22.840 made it. Uh, you have to have some guidance. I 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:26.120 had obviously my my my dad would never have said 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:28.320 I'd have been a pro player like that wasn't There 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:31.920 was no goal of me being an NBA player. There 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:34.399 was no goal for me to be a Division one player. 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:38.159 Now when I got there, my goal was I hate losing. 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:42.280 I don't like not being good. So you know, now 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:45.240 by the time I'm a senior, I'm on the play 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:48.280 by All American team, I make the World Cup team, 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:50.520 and I'm looking around, going, Okay, they're talking about all 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:53.520 these other dudes making the pros. Right, and again I'm 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:55.720 good friends with John Paxson, But John was it Notre 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:59.080 Dame and he's on that list, and I know I 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:04.280 can play with packs, and so was it my thought 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:06.680 of I would be in the NBA? No, no, no no. 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:10.040 I wanted to win the fourth Big Eight championship so 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:12.520 badly and then get to the final four. We didn't. 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:16.400 We made the first part, didn't make a second and 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:20.520 end the career that no one had had around here, right, 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:22.840 No one had won four championships in a row here 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:24.640 or I didn't even know in the Big eight? Right 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:26.840 not back then? Un tell Kansas in the Big twelve. 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:31.120 What a bunch at the end of it all. When 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:34.000 that was done, then the focus became, well, I knew 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:36.320 I'll get a tryout. I know I'll get drafted. I 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:38.440 don't know where it could be second round, they say, 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:41.800 maybe second, maybe first, maybe, I know I'll get a shot. Now, 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:43.960 how do you how do you? How do you make 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:47.120 it there? Well, I'll play to my strengths, stay away 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:49.400 from my weeknes no difference, I played in college. There 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:51.720 were things. There are things I did in high school 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:54.879 that I didn't do in college because I used to. 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:56.480 I was fast, so I used to take it to 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:59.560 the rim a lot right high school. My strength was 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:01.800 not initialing at the ram. In college, we didn't run 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:04.960 stuff that I finished at the ring. So if you 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:09.280 said true point guard, no, probably not in an NBA 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:14.360 sense because of I didn't do those things. Now could 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:17.879 I handle it and not make mistakes? Yes? Was that 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:20.680 true shooting guard? Not because of size, But I can 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:24.920 outshoot anybody in my mind. I got outshoot in packs 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:27.760 and packs and played in the system that you played 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:30.879 in college. You're you're packing, right, So you combine to 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:32.520 both and say, okay, let me go to show up 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:35.320 to training camp and I'll give it a go. You know, 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:37.120 I always used to think, if you gave me two 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:39.720 players and so and I don't care Michael Jordan's two 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:43.080 players will beat three on three, like I'll make we'll win. 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:45.200 I'll win three on three, five on five. I won't 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:47.160 win one on one. I knew that, and I knew 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:49.119 that training camp like when we're doing one on one 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:52.080 drills on the wing, all right, So I got beat again, 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:55.119 I'm gonna file, I'm gonna grab, I'm gonna hold, the 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:56.800 guy's gonna go the hole. I'm gonna knock it away 0:19:56.800 --> 0:19:59.160 and knock his hand off, because usually you know, it's 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:01.920 just a drill one up, right. But if you gave 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:04.520 us two and three on three, four and four or 0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:08.400 five oh five, I thought, okay, some bold teams gonna win. 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:12.119 Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:15.120 the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox sports 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:18.320 Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app. 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:21.439 Search f s R to listen live now. I was 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:24.680 the sixteenth pick in the draft, which surprised me. And 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:26.679 where were you doing that? Where were you the night 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:29.880 of the draft? I was at my house. I had 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:32.239 been kind of invited that they were doing the New 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:34.760 York thing, but it was smaller and I no one 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:37.560 knew where I was going. Back then, you didn't really 0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:40.800 have workouts for your team. My agent, who I hired, 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:44.280 was from Seattle. He never heard from the Summits. He'd 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:46.920 heard from the Spurs. The night before the draft. I 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:50.280 play in summer ly in Kansas City, Indiana. Pacers called 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:53.119 my house. They had the second pick in the draft. 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:55.800