1 00:00:01,639 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: when our budget support. Ukraine can't win the war. It 3 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: needs both the military assistance and the budget support. The 4 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: Chinese are playing hardball here. The United States has been 5 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 1: pushing back Bloomberg sound On politics, policy and perspective from 6 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: DC's top name. So we need to pay the bill 7 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: that we've already approved. This was not a conversation about 8 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: utra spending. We're thirty one trillion in debt to debt ceilings, 9 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: a check on the debt, and our fiscal path is unsustainable. 10 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Congressman 11 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: Jake Auchincloss, the Democrat from Massachusetts, is here and we've 12 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 1: talked to the Congressman about a lot of different issues. 13 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: This one is specific here in Congressman, I welcome you back. 14 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: It's great to have you with us here at our 15 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: new time on Bloomberg Sound On. I want to bring 16 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: you back as well to that same date, the seventeenth 17 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: of April twenty twenty in the White House briefing room, 18 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,479 Speaker 1: when doctor Fauci was asked about this very issue about 19 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: the lab in Wuhan. Guess Intelligence is saying this week 20 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: that the coronavirus likely came from a Level four lab 21 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: in Wuhan. There's also another report that the niage under 22 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: the Obama administration in twenty fifteen. Here, let's try this again. 23 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 1: This is that same day with doctor Fauci now being 24 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: at doctor Fauschi, can you address these suggestions or concerns 25 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: that this virus was somehow man made, possibly came out 26 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: of the laboratory in China. We studied this virus reporter, 27 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: the constructure. There was a study recently that we can 28 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: make available to you where a group of highly qualified 29 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: evolutionary virologists looked at the sequences there and the sequences 30 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: in bats as they evolve, and the mutations that it 31 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: took to get to the point where it is now 32 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: is totally consistent with a jump of a species from 33 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: an animal to a human. So I mean the paper 34 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: will be available. I don't have the authors right now 35 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: that we can make that available to suspect that the 36 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: members of the China Select Committee. You're looking at that 37 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: paper A Congressman Auking class, welcome back. I don't know 38 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: where to start with this. What do you make of 39 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: this conversation? Now, so many Americans thought we had moved 40 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: on from this idea. Thanks for having me on. It's 41 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: always good to be with you, gentlemen. I think we 42 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: don't know the origin of this virus, as is evidenced 43 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: by the fact that the US intelligence community is divided 44 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: on the subject, But we do know a lot of 45 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: important and actionable information. Here's what we do know. We 46 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,239 Speaker 1: know that the Chinese Communist Party lied at the beginning 47 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: of this virus about its origins and pace of spread. 48 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: We know that it lied in the middle of COVID, 49 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: and we know that it lied at the end of 50 00:02:56,240 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 1: COVID with its waves and its refusal to upload salient 51 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: and timely genetic information. We know that we need to 52 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:10,359 Speaker 1: be preparing for zoonotic diseases by increasing R and D 53 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: and infectious disease aid to developing nations. We also know 54 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: that we need to be on guard for man made 55 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: diseases by increasing our biodefenses. So we have important information 56 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: that we can use to go forward. I want to 57 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: know too, about the origin of this pandemic that upended 58 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: life for the last few years and cost millions of 59 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 1: lives and tillions of dollars in economic damage. But that 60 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: does not mean that we have to be at a 61 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: standstill while we hear this information. We kind of have 62 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: to compartmentalize this a bit though, until we really know correct. 63 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: This is a major trading partner, Congressman, and I just 64 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: wonder what the answers to these questions might mean for 65 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: our future relationship. It's a major trading partner, but frankly, 66 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: that's part of the problem. The defining contest of the 67 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: twenty first century is going to be between the United 68 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: States and the Chinese Communist Party, and it's foundationally a 69 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: contest of values. The United States was founded upon self 70 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: evident and universal truths about inalienable rights and the inherent 71 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: dignity of the individual. The CCP does not recognize value 72 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,359 Speaker 1: in individuals. They think people are the ponds of the state, 73 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: and those values will predicate the entirety of our contest economic, military, ideological. 74 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: We need to win, and we need to diversify those 75 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 1: trading ties because it's not acceptable for the CCP to 76 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: have a choke point over critical industries. We spoke earlier 77 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: today with Jamie Diamond, of course runs JP Morgan and 78 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: has exposure in China. He was asked about doing business there, 79 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:46,840 Speaker 1: and I want to want you to hear his response. 80 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:48,719 Speaker 1: It's it's pretty quick. He was in a noisy room. 81 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: We spoke to him earlier today at a conference. Here's 82 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: Jamie type. We obviously have to do whatever the American 83 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:54,919 Speaker 1: government asked us to do, and we're trying to engage 84 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 1: their coverage, their own government and with the Chinese government 85 00:04:57,720 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 1: and what those things should be. You know, I'm hoping 86 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 1: cooler has prevailed here, But this is why Ukraine is 87 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: so important. This can cause it to go in a 88 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 1: bad direction. Rather quickly. Talking about the possibility of China 89 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: providing weapons, which we've heard quite a bit about from 90 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: the Biden administration, Congressman, I wonder if if the Select 91 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: Committee or if the administration should be giving business as 92 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: rules of the road for China, and should we be 93 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,160 Speaker 1: telling them that they need to prepare for a potential unwinding. 94 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: They shouldn't need to be told. It's apparent that relying 95 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: heavily on China as a single port of failure for 96 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 1: supply chains is not an acceptable situation the twenty first century. 97 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: Businesses need to be diversifying. The United States government needs 98 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 1: to be diversifying. Now that does not mean let me 99 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: be clear, that does not mean protectionism. We do not 100 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: want to retrench behind our two oceans and and isolate 101 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: ourselves when the rest of the world actually quite the opposite. 102 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: I think part of the antidote to the CCP is 103 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,799 Speaker 1: deeper trade and investment engagement with the global South Latin 104 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 1: Eric Stub Saharan, African, Nigeria, in particular, Southeast Asia, Taiwan. 105 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: And that can be economic in nature and the forging 106 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: of economic alliances, free trade deals, and investment ties. It 107 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: can also be security. We have now in the Indo 108 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: Pacific the Quad, which is Australia, the United States, India 109 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 1: and Japan coordinating on security. I'd like to see that 110 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: expanded into South Korea and maybe even Taiwan, because we 111 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: have got to ensure a free and open Indo Pacific, 112 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: and we know that the CCP is not interested in that. 113 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: They're interested in recreating a set of tributary states that 114 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:43,840 Speaker 1: owe them obeisance. You were in Taiwan recently, what did 115 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 1: you learn, Congressmen? Number of things. First and foremost, we 116 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: have got to be concerned about a one two punch 117 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: of energy asphyxiation plus disinformation from the Chinese to the 118 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: Taiwanese island. I think the idea of a amphibious invasion 119 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:08,840 Speaker 1: in the near term is not feasible. But what is 120 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: highly highly feasible is this idea that the Chinese Communist 121 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: Party could in fact or in law, blockade Taiwanese energy 122 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: imports while simultaneously pumping disinformation, propaganda, and influenced campaigns through 123 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: Taiwanese traditional and social media to try to basically engineer 124 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: a coup from the outside end. I think we've got 125 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: to be really concerned about that, and we got to 126 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: work with our Taiwanese partners to help prepare and de 127 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: tern Is it right for Kevin McCarthy to bring a 128 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: delegation to Taiwan? And should there be more travel not less. 129 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: It's important to the United States government at all levels 130 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: to demonstrate our commitment to Taiwan. I think we should, 131 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: for example, be ending double taxation of Taiwanese entities in 132 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: the United States. We're the only G seven country that 133 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: does that to Taiwan, and it disinstents their investment in 134 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: our country at the time when we actually want them 135 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: putting money to work care to help us we build 136 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: our semiconductor manufacturing base. We should be expediting foreign military 137 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: sales in Taiwan. They've got about eighteen billion dollars and 138 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: backlogged weaponry. We should be working on officer to officer 139 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: training to help prepare a defense in depth for them. 140 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: And we should be helping them as they try to 141 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: achieve energy security because right now they've got two to 142 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: three weeks of energy reserves on the island. That's that's 143 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: a Petnuis situation. Is the committee going to generate legislation? 144 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: Is this about seeking information or is this about action? Congressman, 145 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: the purpose of this committee both. I think, first of all, 146 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: the Committee wants to create shared awareness of the scope 147 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,079 Speaker 1: and severity of the threat on the Chinese Communist Party. 148 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: The Chinese Communist Party is waging a long term, patient, 149 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: very sophisticated ideological campaign against the United States. They want 150 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: to upend the rules based international order that we helped 151 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: architect after World War Two and that has helped spread 152 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: peace and prosperity to ever more people. Is the nature 153 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: of the threat, and we got to be very clear 154 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 1: eyed about that, and we have to make sure our 155 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:08,719 Speaker 1: colleagues on both sides, I'll understand that number two. We 156 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 1: want to create shared conviction around a discrete set of 157 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: policy recommendations that seventy percent of Congress can get behind. 158 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: And I use that number because if you get two 159 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: thirds of Congress behind something, it's going to transcend any 160 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: change in the administration. That's how you chart long term strategy. Congress, 161 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: we'd like to stay in touch with you. It's important 162 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: to us to stay in touch with you on what 163 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: you're up to, So don't be a stranger. Jake Auchinclaus, 164 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: the Democrat from Massachusetts, he's on the Transportation Committee as 165 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: well as the China Select Committee. As we reassembled our 166 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: panel with some important thoughts here, we're getting this, Rick Davis, 167 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: Genie Schanzano. It's coming straight from the decision maker in 168 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: this case, again with Jake Auchinclaus, this is clearly a 169 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: very skeptical group of people. Genie, it's hard to tell 170 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: where this is going, particularly again if we cannot get 171 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: definitive answers to the questions we have about COVID. Yeah, 172 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: that's right, and you know, as it pertains to China 173 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: out of Congress, we are just hearing ramped up rhetoric 174 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: in the last several months, if not longer. And I 175 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:13,719 Speaker 1: was so glad you asked the representative about Taiwan and 176 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: his recent visit, because what did we hear just in 177 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: the last twenty four hours Taipei's defense minister saying they 178 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: need to prepare for a first shot, that China may 179 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: come up with an excuse to enter and they need 180 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: to be prepared to defend themselves. So, you know, this 181 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: China Select Committee that he's on is one of the 182 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: most important bipartisan committees we've seen in a long time. 183 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: They're a serious group, and I think you're a question 184 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: about whether they're going to be more information gathering, you know, 185 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 1: putting forward policy or both is the big question on 186 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: everybody's mind because we don't yet know what kind of 187 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: legislation may come out of this, and quite frankly, it's new. 188 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 1: Maybe they don't know yet, but certainly it's an area 189 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: where we expect in the one hundred and eighteenth we 190 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: may get some real legislation out of Yeah, this is 191 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: wild stuff here, Rick, the congressman just said the US 192 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 1: should expedite military sales to Taiwan. You'll see that headline 193 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: on your terminal as I also read on the terminals. 194 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 1: China seeks peaceful reunification with Taiwan. In key report, they 195 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: didn't change any of the language about Taiwan and the 196 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: annual report to the nation's legislature. This is a collision 197 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 1: course then, Rick, Yeah, for sure, I think that that 198 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: most people involved in policy in the South China Sea 199 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: have seen this brewing. You know, it is a reunification 200 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,079 Speaker 1: effort on the part of China. They believe in sovereignty 201 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: that Taiwan is, you know, just a vassal state or 202 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: they want to make it that way. And the other 203 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 1: note today is that they presented a budget at the 204 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: same Congress that you're describing with a significant increase on 205 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 1: defense spending aimed at building readiness, which is, you know, 206 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: what are you getting ready for if it's not an 207 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: invasion for Taiwan. I don't think the Mongols are coming 208 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: over the border anytime soon. And so um, you know, 209 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: all the all the tea leaves are reading the same thing, 210 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: which is China's building up its muscle to try and 211 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 1: secure the South China see as its own pond, and 212 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: that includes you know, sovereignty over Taiwan, and that has 213 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: massive implications for the United States, both in military awareness 214 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: of the region and the threat to other nations of 215 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:27,679 Speaker 1: democracies that lie near there, but also economic threat. Uh. 216 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: There's a lot of trading partners with China, but there 217 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: are a lot also with Taiwan in very significant and 218 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: important strategic industries like the chip business and so uh. 219 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: You know, I think this is something that it's really 220 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: good that we have a joint Committee on China, and 221 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 1: yet there are bills being passed every day. House Foreign 222 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: Affairs Committee just passed one to give power to Biden 223 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: to get rid of TikTok. And Mark Warner in the 224 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: Senate is you know, moving legislation around China. So it's 225 00:12:57,520 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 1: not the only place you're going to see action in 226 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: cong on China. China's parliament, of course. I think you 227 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 1: referred to this Genie. The National People's Congress kicking off 228 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:13,359 Speaker 1: the big annual confab here. It ends on the thirteenth 229 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 1: of March, so we're going to be hearing a lot 230 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: about China in the news over the next week. General Millie, 231 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, said that President she 232 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 1: wants the ability to overrun Taiwan by twenty twenty seven, 233 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: that's like tomorrow in the Grand Scheme here, Janie, what 234 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: should we be doing in the meantime, because it seems 235 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,559 Speaker 1: to me if that's the case, the more present we 236 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: are in Taiwan, whether it's Kevin McCarthy or Jake Aukinclaus, 237 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: the better. Yeah, that's right. And of course their meeting 238 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 1: is going on while our president is going to be 239 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 1: issuing his budget on the ninth, and as Rick mentioned, 240 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: this is expected to include an increase in defense spending, 241 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: much of it to be targeted to China and to 242 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: defending Taiwan. So I think this is what Congress needs 243 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: to really think about. What is the policy going to 244 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: be and the administration as well as it pertains to 245 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: confronting China in all of these areas and remembering that 246 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: we have deep economic ties there and they have a big, 247 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: big issue to contend with, which is Russia. I mean, 248 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: China is just you know, Benji has just had the 249 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: president of Belarus over there. He was given a twenty 250 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: gun salute. You know, they are deepening ties there. We're 251 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: hearing about deepening ties with Iran, Russia, China, let's not 252 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: forget about North Korea. All of these things make the 253 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: challenges we are confronting in China, and of course as 254 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 1: it pertains to Taiwan, that much deeper. And you know, 255 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: Millie said by twenty twenty seven, other people, as we know, 256 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: have said it could be a lot sooner. And the 257 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: question is are we in a position to you know, 258 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: confront that, And there is a lot of concern we 259 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: are not at this point, and neither is the rest 260 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: of the rules world, as the representative was talking about, 261 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: and we need to get ourselves in that position very 262 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: very quickly. Right, it was General Mike Minahan of the 263 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: US Air Force who said twenty twenty five we should 264 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: start getting ready for that's two years earlier than what 265 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: Mark Milly's even talking about. Rick, What do we need 266 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: to give Taiwan for the island to prepare well? I 267 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: think this is a story that we've played out quite 268 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: a bit over the last year with Ukraine. Right, how 269 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: much weaponry can we afford to station in Taiwan and when? 270 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: And I think the only real complaint that most people 271 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: have around the defense community with the bidenministration is they've 272 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: waited too long to deploy these necessary pieces of equipment 273 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: to sustain the war against Russia. And so the question 274 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: is how is that applied to Taiwan. Let's get Taiwan 275 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: the necessary means of support that they need to be 276 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: able to dissuade the Chinese from a potential invasion. And 277 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: they do fly F sixteens, don't they They do, and 278 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: they have an order on for more. And so we 279 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: need to be able to timely deliver equipment. And that 280 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: may be as much a debate that we have to 281 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: have around how we allow the Defense establishment to operate 282 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: without the deadlines that are necessary for the Department of 283 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: Defense to properly function. Yeah, Rick Davis and Jennie Chanzano 284 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: our signature panel. Many thanks to you both. To Bloomberg. 285 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: You sound on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. So 286 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: do you see the big Trump speech over the weekend? 287 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: I mean, it was Saturday night. I don't assume things. 288 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: Plus it was almost two hours long. It's like, you know, 289 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: it was as long as watching a movie. He spoke 290 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: for an hour and forty five minutes. And you know, 291 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: he's talking to a very friendly crowd here. There's been 292 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: a lot of talk about crowd size. You heard about this, 293 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: of course, you know that's one of his great obsessions. 294 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: He even goes after Ron de Santis with the crowds, 295 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: you know, Ron to Sanctimonius het the crowd and stated, 296 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: see this is just hundred thirty nine people, sat, we 297 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: got a lot of people. We have one hundred and 298 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 1: thirty nine times about thirty. We got a lot of 299 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 1: people here. But I always say hit your enemy a 300 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: little bit early. Some people say don't, but I say do, 301 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: Which brings us to the great story from Nancy Cook 302 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:19,400 Speaker 1: that you can find on the terminal. Trump eases into 303 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: race with golf, dreaming up to Santas nicknames. Close your eyes, 304 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: picture yourself with Nancy Cook at mar Lago. Well, actually 305 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: you weren't at mar Lago, were you? You? Did? I 306 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 1: know you were in Florida for some time. Yeah. I 307 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: spent about a week in Palm Beach working on two stories, 308 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 1: basically just to check in and see, like what's the 309 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: president former president really up to these days. And what 310 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: I found is basically that he plays golf in the 311 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 1: mornings most mornings at mar Lago and then in Palm Beach, 312 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: and then he spends the afternoon you know, working, but 313 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: part of the work is working. Yeah, no, no, he's working. 314 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:56,239 Speaker 1: What are we working on? Well, what he's working on 315 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 1: is he's very upset by the lack of media coverage 316 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,880 Speaker 1: on Fox News. He is spending a bunch of time 317 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,360 Speaker 1: thinking about how to undercut Florida Governor Ronda Santis, who 318 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 1: it looks like it is going to be his chief rival. Okay, 319 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: And so he's riffing as much as he's working. He 320 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 1: is riffing. And part of that riffing involves, like you know, 321 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: his team is compiling all this opposition research onto Santis, 322 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: and some of it's very serious about his record record 323 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 1: as governor, but some of it is Trump really work 324 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 1: shopping nicknames for Rhonda Santis work shopping. And you actually, yeah, look, 325 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: we just heard the Ronda sanctimonious seems to be sticking. 326 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 1: And the fact that I'm talking to our senior national 327 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 1: politics correspondent about this seems somehow corrupt. But we're going 328 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: to do this. You can do it because you're not 329 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: you're not hold up at the White House. You can 330 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: talk about anything. Now, we had meat ball ron for 331 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: a minute. Sticks that gone already, that hasn't totally stuck. 332 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,400 Speaker 1: So the president former president is really into the idea 333 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 1: of Ronda sanctimonius. He thinks that that is the nickname. 334 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: And I was told so much so that he will refer, 335 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 1: like in casual conversation to Ron de Santis just as dysanctimonious. 336 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,120 Speaker 1: It'll be like, hey, you know, it'd be like hey, 337 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 1: me saying, hey, Joe, pass a coffee. He'll be like, oh, 338 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: you know, dysanctimonius in Florida. But his team definitely thinks 339 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:14,360 Speaker 1: that that one doesn't hit the bull's eye as much. 340 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: That's true, yes, And so they have been talking about 341 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,679 Speaker 1: other ideas with him, and some of them are Ron dishonest, 342 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:25,360 Speaker 1: oh wow, Rond establishment and establishment. And here's the one 343 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,640 Speaker 1: that it's a little bit naughty. But I could see 344 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: the press, I could see Trump really lighting on it. 345 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 1: It's a tiny d oh wow. This is from the 346 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: tiny hands president. He didn't like that nickname. Now he's 347 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: got a chance to flip it on somebody, he does exactly. 348 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: And you know the point of how did you learn that? 349 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: Who talks to you about? I mean, it's Trump worlds. 350 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:48,479 Speaker 1: You can there's a lot of people who will talk 351 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 1: to you. I mean, the point of my story, like, 352 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: the nicknames are so fun and it's so fun to like, 353 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: it's interesting to think about how he is really thinking 354 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: about taking on De Santis, who is a very serious 355 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 1: rival at this point. But I also think the story 356 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 1: just shows, you know, how President Trump, performer President Trump 357 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: is spending his time these days. You know, he's really 358 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,360 Speaker 1: upset about cable news coverage. He's mad at Rupert Murdoch, 359 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:16,160 Speaker 1: he's dissing toss Antis, and he still is very hung 360 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 1: up on the idea that he did not lose the 361 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: twenty twenty election. And that is something, you know, on 362 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: a serious note, that his advisors really want him to 363 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: talk about less. They want him to focus on hitting 364 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: Biden on the economy, they want him to talk about 365 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,679 Speaker 1: crime in the US, they wanted to talk about immigration, 366 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: Like these are real problems that you could really draw 367 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,399 Speaker 1: a contrast with the Democratic president on. But he keeps 368 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: coming back to the twenty twenty election, and that could 369 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: be a liability. And that's why we're seeing other candidates 370 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: show up, right, And you had Nicki Haley on stage there. 371 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 1: Mike Pompeio even called them out, even you know, by name, 372 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 1: and talked about, you know, how we need to go 373 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: to the look to the future. He said it was 374 00:20:55,200 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: indefensible of the adding to deficits during the Trump illustration. 375 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: My goodness, that wouldn't have happened a couple of years ago. 376 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,679 Speaker 1: It wouldn't have. And you know, polls really show Trump 377 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: still leading the field, you know, and then followed by 378 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: De Santas and then everybody else is sort of polling 379 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 1: at single digits. But I do think that, you know, 380 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: he hasn't been able to sort of get over the 381 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:18,880 Speaker 1: election results, and as you said, it creates this opening. 382 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,199 Speaker 1: And what I have found interesting is, you know, a 383 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,360 Speaker 1: bunch of the people who we think are going to run, 384 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: like Senator Tim Scott or Governor round to Santas, to Florida, 385 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,440 Speaker 1: they are presenting a really different vision. When they're talking 386 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: to audiences, they're saying, you know, it's more hopeful. It's 387 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 1: more like, here's my vision for the future, or do 388 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: you know what I mean here? Governor de Santas is saying, 389 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: here's what I did in Florida and that's good, and 390 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: that's good. And Trump still has this way of talking about, 391 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: you know, the country that is very dark. You know, 392 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,360 Speaker 1: his speech at Seapack was very dark and full of 393 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: comments about retribution and the horrible state of the US. 394 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: And so there's always been that contrast between Republicans, between 395 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 1: Trump and Democrats. Now we're seen, even within the publican field, 396 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: like a really different tone in rhetoric and how they're 397 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: talking about their visions and also just what they would do, 398 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 1: what the agendas would be. It's interesting you mentioned the 399 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: retribution line. I was really taken by that. I suspect 400 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: we're going to hear a lot right this was this 401 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: is probably going to be in the speech for the 402 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 1: next year and a half or something. Listen to the 403 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: way Donald Trump put it at Sepeck in twenty sixteen. 404 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: I declared, I am your voice today I d I 405 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:29,160 Speaker 1: am your warrior, I am your justice. And for those 406 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 1: who have been wronged and betrayed, I am your retribution. 407 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,360 Speaker 1: I am your retribution. I'm not going to let those 408 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: So that's he's articulating the point that you're making. This 409 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 1: is going to be not just a retribution tour, but 410 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: voting for me is the way to give everyone else 411 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: the middle finger, right right, whereas you win like that, 412 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: I mean, I suppose that's how we won. In twenty sixteen. 413 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: It was a really populous message. He spoke to, you know, 414 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: working class white voters who did not have a college education, 415 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: who felt very left behind in huge parts of the 416 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:10,360 Speaker 1: country Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and the visits East Palestine. Yeah, 417 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: and it was an extremely effective message, and his team 418 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: really felt like that East Palestine visit to Ohio was 419 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: a great moment for them. I will say, though, it's 420 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: going to be a really long primary for Republicans because 421 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: you know, there is this different vision and he's running 422 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,919 Speaker 1: against people who have real political experience. You know, a 423 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: governor of Florida, Tim Scott, as a senator. You know 424 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,400 Speaker 1: a former vice president, Mike Pompeio was Secretary of State. 425 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: I don't think all of these people will rise up, 426 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: but I think that it's such an interesting moment for 427 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: the Republican Party about like what they're for, both in 428 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: terms of tone, what they're for in terms of policy. 429 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: They're really like kind of out in the wilderness trying 430 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 1: to figure it out. HUSI golfin with Is it friends 431 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: or are these political operatives that people work for him? 432 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: Do we as it different every day? Yeah? I think 433 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: it's different. I mean I was told he doesn't play 434 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,239 Speaker 1: like a full I'm not the golfer. Oh yeah, it's 435 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: eighteen holes, right, he's doing nine, nine in the morning. 436 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,400 Speaker 1: He does nine in the morning golf carts. We know that. Yeah, 437 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: he's actually a pretty good golfer. So um, yeah, he'd 438 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: usually does nine in the morning. And then you know, 439 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 1: comes in and I just love they're still taking your calls, 440 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 1: and of course they are. You have a unique way 441 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 1: of getting to this stuff. We love spending time with 442 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: you on the air. Don't be a stranger, Nancy Cook. 443 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 1: Thank you. You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. 444 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 1: Catch us live weekdays at five Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, 445 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, and the Bloomberg Business App. 446 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:37,360 Speaker 1: We're listening on demand wherever you get your podcast. Still 447 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 1: recovering from Seapack weekend, where Donald Trump found that the 448 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: Republican Party would never return to what it was before 449 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: he transformed it in his image, and yes he did 450 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: win the straw Pole. Hour and forty five minutes. He 451 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:59,400 Speaker 1: spoke at the Big Confab at National Harbor and made 452 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: it pretty clear that this the people who were in 453 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: the room, this is the base. In twenty sixteen, I 454 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:10,359 Speaker 1: declared I am your voice today, I add I am 455 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: your warrior, I am your justice. And for those who 456 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 1: have been wronged and betrayed, I am your retribution. I 457 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: am your retribution. That's the line, I am your retribution. 458 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: He once again dominated. The straw pole of choice is 459 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 1: sixty two percent of the attendees who participated. Sixty two 460 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: percent compared with twenty percent for Rhonda Santis. Remembering our 461 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 1: conversation last hour with Nancy Cook, not even close, not 462 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: at least for this crowd. Five percent for Johnson, three 463 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: percent for Haley. Nicki Haley of course did speak. You 464 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: heard those remarks here on the program on Friday. Everybody 465 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: else at one percent or less. And by the way, 466 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: that's more than Donald Trump got in the Orlando Sepack 467 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,360 Speaker 1: straw pole last year. Let's bring in Mick mulvaney. I'm 468 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,360 Speaker 1: glad to say is with his former acting White House 469 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 1: Chief of Staff, he's basically held every job in Washington, 470 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: former omb director, also former congressman. Make it's great to 471 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 1: have you back here. As you watched the c pack 472 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 1: unfold this time, a lot of folks were saying, well, 473 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: this really has turned into a Trump rally, that it 474 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: represents a slice of the Republican Party as opposed to 475 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 1: the Big Tent. Is that true? It is? And by 476 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: the way, Joe, thanks as always for having me. Keep 477 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:28,639 Speaker 1: in mind, if we all call it Trump pack now, 478 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,199 Speaker 1: it's not really a conservative pack, it's Trump pack um, 479 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,439 Speaker 1: which is reflective in the fact that nobody else decides. 480 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 1: I think Nicky Haley showed up for at least none 481 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: of the other leading likely candidates, the Santis, Pants, Pompeo, etc. 482 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: And you you know, you've hearkened on that number, about 483 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 1: the sixty three percent, And what I'm telling you is 484 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,399 Speaker 1: that sixty percent is too low. Everybody there should have 485 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 1: been a Trump fan, and apparently they weren't in that 486 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 1: at In that environment, Trump should be winning eighty five 487 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: ninety percent of the vote. So I'm not sure where 488 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: the sixty three came from. I understood why the number 489 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: was lower in Florida because that's Ronda Santis's home territory. 490 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: But this was in Washington, DC's the Santris wasn't there 491 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 1: that numbers should be higher than sixty three percent. I'm 492 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,120 Speaker 1: the Trump team. I'm claiming victory, and you should because 493 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: you won by forty three points. Yeah, but the number 494 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,120 Speaker 1: could have and probably should have been higher. Much said 495 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,119 Speaker 1: about crowd size. I know that's an obsession of your 496 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 1: former boss, and I'm not even gonna attempt to quantify it. 497 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: But there were lots of pictures taken from the back 498 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 1: of the room. You know, make this is what you 499 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: do to poke the bear a little bit? Is that 500 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 1: too a concern if you're on Team Trump? It is? 501 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: This was not This has turned into an event that 502 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: used to be pan Republican and under Max Laps leadership 503 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 1: the last couple of years, they sort of thrown in 504 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: whole hog with Trump, which is fine, that's where the 505 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 1: money has been, so you can't fault them for that. 506 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: But the fact that all of the major names other 507 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,120 Speaker 1: than Trump stayed away, then Nicky Haley was there. Of course. 508 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: You know there's some discussion about issue running for Trump's 509 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 1: vice president, Yes, want her and race in order to 510 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: you know, there was some polling data that would indicate 511 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,120 Speaker 1: she pulls from the Santis more than Trump, that Trump 512 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,120 Speaker 1: might move to the Santa's head to head but can't 513 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,360 Speaker 1: be beaten with a third party in the race such 514 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: as Nicki Haley. So there's some discussions there, but this 515 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: was a Trump event. And you would think that the 516 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 1: turnout it was probably of a concern to them, and 517 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: the numbers are probably concerned to them. When you think 518 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: of a baby bonus, where did that come from? Nick? 519 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 1: Did you hear about this? Yeah? That's yeah, I did. 520 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 1: And that's that doesn't surprise me. That's actually making its 521 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: way around some conservative intellectual circles, academic circles. It goes 522 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 1: back to some things that other countries are doing that 523 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: are having struggling birth rates. I think Hungary has been 524 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: doing it for several years. They give a tax bonus. 525 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: For example, if you have three kids, your taxes go down. 526 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 1: You have four kids, you don't ever pay taxes. I 527 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: think some of the Asian countries are doing it to 528 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 1: try and spur growth rates. Russia has mentioned it and 529 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 1: so forth. So it's it's not It is making its 530 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: rounds in the back rooms of the think tanks and 531 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 1: so forth on the right side of the political spectrum. Fascinating. 532 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: I know Elon Musk has has suggested as much as well, 533 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: that you know, popular lation growth is a huge concern 534 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: in this country. I just only Donald Trump would present 535 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: it the way he did, saying, you guys, you're lucky men. 536 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: I'm here to work for you, But let me ask 537 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: him make mulvanny about the field, his view and child 538 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: rearing kiss if it sure does. Uh. You know we 539 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: heard from Mike Pompeo last week at seapack. You actually 540 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 1: called out all of your former boss a couple of times. 541 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 1: But we also saw a significant announcement over the weekend. 542 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: Maybe I'm making too much of it, but a lot 543 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 1: of people thought Larry Hogan might run. He's not going 544 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 1: to now. And here's how he described or explained his 545 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: decision to CBS. I didn't want to have a pile 546 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: up of a bunch of people fighting. Right now you have, 547 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 1: you know, Trump and the Santis at the top of 548 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: the field. You're soaking up all the oxygen, getting all 549 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 1: the attention, and then a whole lot of the rest 550 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 1: of us and single digits, and the more of them 551 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: you have, it's a less chance you have for somebody 552 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: rising up. I'm guessing you agree with the premise there, Mick, 553 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,120 Speaker 1: But is that smart politics? You know Chris new who 554 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 1: said it's not about when you get in, it's about 555 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: when you get out. Yeah, that's exactly where my head went, 556 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 1: because I think that's the exact right lines. Chris was 557 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: spot on when he when he said it doesn't matter 558 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: who gets in it, it matters how quickly they were 559 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: to get out. I think Larry's probably very self aware 560 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: of recognizing that this is not his Republican party right now, 561 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: it's not his time as a Republican right now, and 562 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: that you're much more likely to have the anti Trump 563 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 1: vote go to someone like de Santis or Haley or 564 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: Pompey or Pants and they would important, but a lesser 565 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: known Republican governor from a small state. So I'm not 566 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: sure what Larry Hogan would have been selling other than 567 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: the same thing everybody else was selling. Do you see 568 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: Christ in a new jumping in? He sure keeps coming back. Boy, 569 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 1: everyone's booking Christ knew because they I think Washington sees 570 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: him as a potential spoiler to your point, He's a 571 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 1: governor from a smaller state, doesn't have all the name 572 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: recognition yet, but could pack a punch. No, I disagree. 573 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: This is the Pete Boudhajdge models. This is no kiddie. 574 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: I've got a chance. Yeah, this is the I got 575 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: a chance to sort of maybe I catch fire, Maybe 576 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 1: I would win a primer coming second or third in 577 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 1: an early state. You know that's a nice thing about Iowa, 578 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: New Hampshire. It's yeah, small town retail politics. You don't 579 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 1: need a lot of money. You do well there, you 580 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 1: might convey it into a cabinet spot. I think I 581 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 1: think Chris is a very capable guy, and we'd love 582 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: to have him in a Republican cabinet. But I don't 583 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: think he thinks he's actually got a chance to win. 584 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: How about that? Fascinating mc mulvanny. While you're here, they're 585 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: talking about this is the most important week of the 586 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 1: year with regard to the economy and the market's Wall Street. 587 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: We've this for any number of reasons, the jobs report, 588 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: j Powell's testimony among them. We're going to hear two 589 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: days of testimony from the Fed chair. Everyone's got a 590 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: different The market thinks they're smarter than he is. Lawmakers 591 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: think that they're smarter than he is. He's in a 592 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 1: real tough spot here. He does he need to keep 593 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: hiking more than we expect. Yeah, he's in a tough 594 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: spot because he's been wrong, right, I mean, when the 595 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 1: inflation wasn't going to be a big deal, and it 596 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: was and it wasn't gonna be transitory. You know, he's 597 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 1: had a difficty, he's got a credibility issue. There's no questions. 598 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: You have to keep high probably, And here's what I 599 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: try and explain it to people. The causes of inflation 600 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 1: haven't changed that much. If you look back six months 601 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: a year ago, what caused inflation? Yeah, okay, we had 602 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: a significant supply chain problem that seems to get working out. 603 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: You had a report on that just before you went 604 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: on the air with me. But still a war in 605 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: Ukraine in the in fact it Luke shows no sign 606 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: of flowing down. The sanctions are actually getting more intense, 607 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 1: Our domestic energy policy is getting worse, Government spending is 608 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: still bad, and the job market is actually a lot 609 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: tighter than it was when inflation started a couple of 610 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: years back. So if you look at the causes of inflation, 611 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: you have to ask yourself, why wouldn't you think it 612 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 1: would continue for a while. And the Fed, I would assume, 613 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: is doing the same thing. And you know their primary 614 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: tools to raise interest rates. I think when everything you 615 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: you know, you only have a hammer, everything looks like 616 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: a nail, So I expect that that's what they'll have 617 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: to do unless and Joe, this isn't this is this is. 618 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 1: I can't get an answer to this on everybody unless 619 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: they're willing to accept a consistently higher level than two percent. 620 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 1: If they've now shifted their target to three percent, four percent, whatever, 621 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 1: then they might not raise rates, or if they're listening 622 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 1: to Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren who said, look, you 623 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: have a statutory mandate right to maintain full employment. Don't 624 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: you dare create demand destruction because I'll put people out 625 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: of work and then a violate law. So that's a 626 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: very or at least your legal mandate. So that would 627 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: be an interesting tight load for him to walk. Yeah, 628 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: I'd like to know how both are possible and in 629 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: what reality that is. But I'll tell you what. Nick Mulvaney, 630 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 1: as I mentioned, chief of staff of the White House, 631 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: former OMB director, former congressman, do you develop like a 632 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: facial tick every time someone says the term debt limit. 633 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 1: You've been on all sides of this thing, Mack, how 634 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 1: does this end? Yeah? I like being in charge of 635 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 1: the CFPB. We didn't care much about the debt limit 636 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 1: at that time. How does it end? It ends with 637 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: it being raised. Okay, it's going to be rais question 638 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 1: about the questions under what terms and conditions. As much 639 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: as I would like to see the fiscal hawks win 640 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 1: in Washington, DC, I know that a minority even within 641 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: the Republican Party. So I don't see any major major 642 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 1: spending reductions the likes of which we had back in 643 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 1: twenty eleven to them thirteen what I think you might get, 644 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: or some smaller concessions, which is the way things should work. 645 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,840 Speaker 1: If the Republicans control the House, the Democrats control the 646 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: Senate and the White House, maybe you get a third 647 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: of what you want. There's no way they're going to 648 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,880 Speaker 1: get major discretionary reductions. There's no way they're going to 649 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: get major mandatory reductions. But they might get things like 650 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: future guidelines on growth, and might get a really a 651 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 1: commission with some teeth into it to look into social 652 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 1: security and medicare There are things that the Republicans can 653 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 1: and should do to move the ball in the right direction. 654 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: But the time to really fix this was when we 655 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: had the House, to the White House and the Senate. 656 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 1: We didn't do it. So I don't know why they 657 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,280 Speaker 1: expect to be able to fix it now. The insider 658 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 1: view from Mick mulvaney. Great to have you back. Beck. 659 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:41,799 Speaker 1: I understand we're gonna do this from time to time, 660 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 1: and I'm delighted that you're part of the new broadcast 661 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:45,880 Speaker 1: at the New Time. Thanks for being with us sharing 662 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 1: insights here on Bloomberg Radio. You know who is in 663 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 1: the room for this sepack speech that we've been talking 664 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:58,280 Speaker 1: about last hour plus. Mark mcquette, Bloomberg's national politics reporter. 665 00:34:58,440 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 1: He goes to all of these things. In fact that 666 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,719 Speaker 1: think he goes to every Trump rally and this was 667 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 1: Trump rally on steroids, and he's with us right now. 668 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 1: We wanted to talk to somebody who was actually there. 669 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 1: He's doing all this fooling around on Twitter and talking 670 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 1: about crowd sizes and all of that. Mick, thank you 671 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: again for joining us. Mark Niquette, I'm I'm guessing you survived. 672 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 1: Did they put you in a cage in the back 673 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 1: of the room this time? No, but they did have 674 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 1: like the media section quartered off like they usually do 675 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: at Trump events. I guess, just to you know, emphasize 676 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 1: our relative importance in the event. So what was it 677 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 1: like to be there as a journalist? Did were you 678 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: were you coming and going as you please for people 679 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 1: hackling you, or it was all of the above, No, 680 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: it was it was It was fine. I mean, we 681 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,880 Speaker 1: were able to cover the events as we normally do. Um. 682 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 1: What was interesting, though, this seatpack was I would say 683 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,960 Speaker 1: diminished from previous seat packs. The crowds were definitely smaller 684 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 1: even for Trump's speech. Maybe only two thirds of the 685 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 1: ball room was filled. So that's not some liberal media 686 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 1: narrative mark there there was. I mean, I saw the photographs. 687 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:07,959 Speaker 1: I just I really try to be careful with crowd 688 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 1: sizes intellege Trump, but you're telling me it's real. Yeah. 689 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 1: I wouldn't put a number on how many were there, 690 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 1: but there were clearly empty seats in the back of 691 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,880 Speaker 1: the ballroom that they had set up for Trump's speech, 692 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 1: and certainly he had the most people attending of any 693 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,800 Speaker 1: session at Sepack. Some of the sessions there were, you know, 694 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 1: very few people in attendance. You know, Trump was a 695 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,320 Speaker 1: big draw obviously. Yeah. Well, you know, we were just 696 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 1: talking to Mick mulvaney about it. He calls it trump pack. 697 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 1: Spoke earlier with your colleague Nancy Cook, who says, yeah, 698 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: that's what this thing has become. So what's the future 699 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,759 Speaker 1: I guess of sepack mark they carry through this this 700 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,719 Speaker 1: Trump campaign, and then is it redefined again. We're gonna 701 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,479 Speaker 1: have to see. I mean, it really has changed over time. 702 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 1: You SEPAC used to be the place where conservatives went 703 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:02,279 Speaker 1: and discussed policy UM and and really got into the 704 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,840 Speaker 1: weeds about you know, we're conservative thinking was on you know, 705 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,480 Speaker 1: topics of the day and foreign policy and such, um 706 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 1: and and that's no longer the case. I mean, if 707 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 1: you go to see Pack these days, you'll you'll get 708 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 1: UM panel discussions about UM, gender identity, UM, you know, 709 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 1: sort of the latest you know, Republican grievances, the stolen 710 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,439 Speaker 1: election in twenty twenty UM, and it's it's very little 711 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 1: discussion about policy UM. And There's some who think in 712 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,239 Speaker 1: the party that you know, seapack has been diminished as 713 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,800 Speaker 1: a result, that it really only represents you know, that 714 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: really hardcore right wing base UM element in the party, 715 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 1: the base that's closely aligned with Donald Trump. The fact 716 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: that Rhonda Santis was not there, that that Kevin McCarthy 717 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,439 Speaker 1: and Mitch McConnell were not there would reinforce that point 718 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 1: of view. No, yeah, I think We're thinking on the 719 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: part of De Santis in particular, that you know, there 720 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 1: was nothing to be gained by going to Seepack, which is, 721 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,520 Speaker 1: you know, a Trump crowd. M. De Santis has been 722 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 1: trying to avoid direct comprotation with Trump, you know this 723 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,920 Speaker 1: early in the campaign, and I think some of the 724 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,280 Speaker 1: other speakers thought too, this, this is not my crowd, 725 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,360 Speaker 1: this is Donald Trump's crowd. You know, why should I 726 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 1: show up and speak there? And in fact, Nicky Haley 727 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 1: Um spoke at Seapack and kind of paid the price 728 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 1: for it. After her speech, she went out into the 729 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,920 Speaker 1: hall to take some selfies with supporters and she had 730 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 1: a nice response, a warm welcome at sea Pack. But 731 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:31,880 Speaker 1: when she went to take selfies, Heckler started chanting, you know, 732 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,799 Speaker 1: we want Trump, we want Trump. God, what a way 733 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,880 Speaker 1: to make a living. Mark, thank you for the insights. 734 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,320 Speaker 1: Find Mark's column. He wrote about it. Mark Nikat on 735 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:45,560 Speaker 1: the Terminal, Trump vows to finish mission cements dominance over Seatpack. 736 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 1: You'd better believe it.