Speaker 1: Loud and Quiet Presents Midnight Chats. You don't need me
Speaker 1: to tell you that. If there's been one red hot
Speaker 1: topic that's dominated national and international politics for the last
Speaker 1: few years, it's immigration and post Brexit, post Trump. It
Speaker 1: continues to do so. So maybe it's surprising that more
Speaker 1: musicians haven't tackled the topic the subject in some way
Speaker 1: from some angle, but I guess it's one of those
Speaker 1: things that's still very divisive. However, my guest on this
Speaker 1: episode of Midnight Chats has talked about it, has written
Speaker 1: about it, and it's Ghost Poet. Last month in April,
Speaker 1: he shared the first taste of new music from his
Speaker 1: fourth album that will be out later this year. It's
Speaker 1: an emotive and pretty arresting piece of storytelling called Immigrant Boogie,
Speaker 1: written from the perspective of a father, his wife, and
Speaker 1: his children in a desperate situation traveling on board an
Speaker 1: immigrant boat attempting to make a journey to a better
Speaker 1: quality of life, something we've read a lot about and
Speaker 1: heard a lot about in the media the last few years.
Speaker 1: I'm happy if you want to pause this podcast and
Speaker 1: go check out the song and come back to this,
Speaker 1: because for me, it's a really powerful piece of songwriting,
Speaker 1: and one which forms a large part of this conversation
Speaker 1: that you're about to hear, which was recorded when a
Speaker 1: barrow came into our office here at Loud and Quiet
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks back. It also won't have escaped
Speaker 1: to notice that there's a general election just around the
Speaker 1: corner here in the UK two, so we talk about
Speaker 1: that as well. If you're thinking, oh, this episode sounds
Speaker 1: like it's going to be a bit heavy, it wasn't all,
Speaker 1: I promise. We also chatted about how he's recently moved
Speaker 1: out of his native London, got a place in Margate
Speaker 1: on the coast, and like lots of other people in
Speaker 1: the creative industries have in the last few years, where
Speaker 1: he's hatching plans to start his own online radio station,
Speaker 1: so we hear about his inspiration from wanting to do that.
Speaker 1: There's also a barking dog in the background of some
Speaker 1: of this and we like to kind of keep that
Speaker 1: stuff in, I should say, in case you need any
Speaker 1: background on Ghost Poet. He's the British artist who was
Speaker 1: based in Coventry after studying there but almost a decade
Speaker 1: and he's released three albums, two of which have been
Speaker 1: nominated for the prestigious Mercury Prize, including his most recent one,
Speaker 1: Shedding Skin back in two thy fifteen I think it was,
Speaker 1: and he's also been a judge for that as well.
Speaker 1: In person, he's a really gracious guy, quite softly spoken,
Speaker 1: but very focused and humble. You'll hear me mentioned this
Speaker 1: in the podcast too, that right back at the start
Speaker 1: of Midnight Chats in the spring of last year, he
Speaker 1: helped us skeet this podcast up and run him by
Speaker 1: writing some music for it, which we're still really grateful for.
Speaker 1: And that's kind of the ideal opportunity to say that
Speaker 1: if you do like what you hear, there are now
Speaker 1: more than twenty five episodes to go back and listen to,
Speaker 1: everyone from Ryan Adams to Laura Marlin, Rizamed to Mac
Speaker 1: DeMarco and last time out, Stuart was speaking to slow Dive.
Speaker 2: So do subscribe.
Speaker 1: That means you'll get every new episode that goes up
Speaker 1: fortnightly on a Thursday at midnight. And if you want
Speaker 1: to leave us a review, rate us or comment that
Speaker 1: all helps in spreading the word too. Anyway, I will
Speaker 1: leave you to this. I hope you enjoy a conversation.
Speaker 1: This is episode twenty seven of Midnight Chats with Ghost Poets.
Speaker 1: Before we kick off, I've got to say thank you
Speaker 1: to you because we've been doing this podcast for about
Speaker 1: eighteen months now, in the spring last year with an old,
Speaker 1: battered laptop and a microphone we bought off eBay. I
Speaker 1: didn't really know what we're doing, and you kindly lent
Speaker 1: some music to us to really get our podcasts off
Speaker 1: the ground.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah you did.
Speaker 1: So you've been there since the starting.
Speaker 2: A way, indeed very much. You're welcome, sir.
Speaker 1: How have you been anyway?
Speaker 2: Yeah, really good, really good, and just been you know, pottering,
Speaker 2: really pottering. Moved to Margate about four four months ago
Speaker 2: and yeah, wond this all was in zen life.
Speaker 1: Now have you lived in the city all your life?
Speaker 1: And this is the kind of first move out of
Speaker 1: the big smoke in.
Speaker 2: No. I moved to Coventry when I was like eighteen
Speaker 2: for university and then I stayed there for about ten
Speaker 2: years or so in total, and then moved back to London.
Speaker 2: So London and Coventry, so it wasn't totally alien for
Speaker 2: me to move out of London, but yeah, it feels
Speaker 2: like it's different type of move I think being in
Speaker 2: this sea is really good. Everything being so close where
Speaker 2: you can walk through everything in like ten to fifteen minutes,
Speaker 2: and bumping into people and having conversations a bit much
Speaker 2: like this, there's like wholesome conversation where it isn't about
Speaker 2: how much you've been able to achieve in your in
Speaker 2: your life thus far. It's just like I think, yeah, cool,
Speaker 2: we're up to but it's nice. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Was it a mixture of like having enough of certain
Speaker 1: elements of living in a city like London and the
Speaker 1: appeal of having a little bit more kind of time
Speaker 1: and space? Was it one more than the other?
Speaker 2: For sure? It was the desire to have a bit
Speaker 2: more space was starting to get stronger and stronger. And yeah,
Speaker 2: it was just like London, it's just very busy and
Speaker 2: mentally it's very for me, it has become very draining,
Speaker 2: just because just the way it's set up is the
Speaker 2: capital city, and you know, living here you sign almost
Speaker 2: like a contractor disc constantly have beyond attack mode, you know,
Speaker 2: constantly being this kind of I've got to keep working.
Speaker 2: I've got to if I'm enjoying my life in any way,
Speaker 2: I'm going to feel guilty about it. I just didn't
Speaker 2: want to do that anymore, and I was born here.
Speaker 2: I still love it, but it was time to find
Speaker 2: another base of operations, you know.
Speaker 1: So what are the things you're enjoying about marketing?
Speaker 2: Being able to walk to everywhere it was great to
Speaker 2: see obviously, just making lots of new friends and lots
Speaker 2: there's a lot of artists, a lot of creatives down there,
Speaker 2: and there's lots of really interesting opportunities that come about
Speaker 2: from a place where for a long time it was
Speaker 2: there was hardly anything going on, like the traditional kind
Speaker 2: of seaside industry was unfortunately was devastated by the introduction
Speaker 2: of like cheap flights abroad through like things like easy
Speaker 2: Jet and so on and so forth. So for a
Speaker 2: long time it was just on its knees. So it
Speaker 2: slowly started to develop again. And there's this opportunities I'm
Speaker 2: trying to start, and like I mentioned, I'm trying to
Speaker 2: start like a radio station, aren't there, And just trying
Speaker 2: to give Margate a voice through music and give people
Speaker 2: an idea of what's going on down there in terms
Speaker 2: of the creative arts and so on and so forth. Really, so, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's quite an inspiring place, I haven't. I haven't actually
Speaker 2: made any music since I've moved down there, so I
Speaker 2: don't know what is going to come out from it
Speaker 2: when I start making music again.
Speaker 1: But I was going to say, because when when often
Speaker 1: when you read about the things people say about the music,
Speaker 1: that you make a consistent reference that always pops up
Speaker 1: is this is the sound of the city, this is
Speaker 1: the urban sound of nighttime. If I have to read
Speaker 1: that ghost it's new track sounds ideal for listening to
Speaker 1: on a night Plus, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: It's a regular reference. How do you I guess you
Speaker 1: don't know yet, But how do you imagine that that
Speaker 1: new scenery might sort of appear in your music?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I really really don't know. I kind
Speaker 2: of I know, I'm very much more my mind is
Speaker 2: much more settled living in market now, and I feel like,
Speaker 2: I don't know if I could put like I never
Speaker 2: think about it in generous sense.
Speaker 1: But.
Speaker 2: I assume that the music will come out much more
Speaker 2: relaxed and much more kind of scenic, which is not
Speaker 2: what I want. So I don't know. It's kind of
Speaker 2: like it's like you could say the same about somebody
Speaker 2: like Nick caves, not in terms of my music, but
Speaker 2: in terms of somebody who lives by the sea, lives
Speaker 2: in Brighton, and it hasn't seemed to affect his music.
Speaker 2: He's still very much makes what he wants to make.
Speaker 2: I don't think it all change dramatically, but I feel
Speaker 2: it will seep in this in slight shape or form
Speaker 2: for sure. I just don't know how yet. It's almost
Speaker 2: like a fear. I feel that's what's stupp in me.
Speaker 2: I'm afraid to find that what will well, how it
Speaker 2: will manifest itself in music. So I've just just deciding
Speaker 2: not to make any So yeah, I'll come back to
Speaker 2: you and let you know how that one goes.
Speaker 1: It's a familiar trend, like not just from London, but
Speaker 1: also like other big cities across the UK or even
Speaker 1: places like New York, whereby particularly people in the creative industries,
Speaker 1: you know, have moved further and further away from their
Speaker 1: sort of like traditional heartlines within the city. What's it
Speaker 1: like being part of a sort of growing creative community
Speaker 1: in somewhere like Margate, Like how have the sort of
Speaker 1: traditional Margate locals welcomed in? You know? I don't imagine
Speaker 1: they've had people coming along saying like having the enthusiasms
Speaker 1: to set up a radio station or club night or yeah,
Speaker 1: something a little bit more experimental. Is there any friction
Speaker 1: between those things?
Speaker 2: Not really, not on the surface. There is definitely. You know,
Speaker 2: you've got people who've lived there for forever, you know,
Speaker 2: who may look at that the new influx of people
Speaker 2: think this isn't what market needs. And there's stuff like Dreamland,
Speaker 2: which is a retro amusement park that's okening up again
Speaker 2: soon where it's going to be like a they're building
Speaker 2: like a fifteen thousand outdoor stage space and bars and
Speaker 2: stuff like that, and I'm sure there's local people think
Speaker 2: that's not what market needs. So there's definitely that camp,
Speaker 2: and then you've got a camp of people who are
Speaker 2: embracing it. And there's a lot of the businesses that
Speaker 2: are being set up in Market by people who've just
Speaker 2: moved down in the last four or five years are
Speaker 2: very much about trying to build a community and not
Speaker 2: kind of not to say it's only London specific, but
Speaker 2: there is this kind of thing of going into an
Speaker 2: area and then almost just taking over and making it
Speaker 2: in your own image. Whatever that is. And I feel
Speaker 2: like the characters moving down to Margate and the people
Speaker 2: who have been there for a period of time very
Speaker 2: much understand that it's important to incorporate everybody within anything
Speaker 2: and the sensitivity for sure, for sure, And I think
Speaker 2: that's it's the stand to the type of people moving
Speaker 2: down there, and it's I guess the general feeling of
Speaker 2: people that yeah, there's a community spirit here, it just
Speaker 2: needs to be built on rather than created from scratches
Speaker 2: some shape or form. So it's really, excuse me, it's
Speaker 2: really interesting to see yeah, people, local people and newer
Speaker 2: people being together in a club night or in a
Speaker 2: coffee shop and this like this, you know, just living
Speaker 2: beside each other. I think it's like it's like a
Speaker 2: social experiment really, but I really I'm enjoying seeing the developments,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: So moving away from London, has that been the kind
Speaker 1: of big life change, the kind of significant stuff that's
Speaker 1: happened in the time since really shedding skin?
Speaker 2: It's the last record I what have I done? I
Speaker 2: got married last year and congratulations, thank you, Like I
Speaker 2: shouldn't really forget that, but yeah, that up in last year.
Speaker 2: And I think for me it's always kind of been
Speaker 2: a case of being inspired by this living, you know,
Speaker 2: rather than creative pursuit. So yeah, getting married is a
Speaker 2: life changing thing, and making the moves to market is
Speaker 2: another life changing thing. And there's been you know, ups
Speaker 2: and downs in between personally wise over the last couple
Speaker 2: of years, and all these things are just stored up
Speaker 2: basically for me. And whence I start putting down music again,
Speaker 2: it just starts to come out in its own shape
Speaker 2: or form. But yeah, just like I can't say it enough,
Speaker 2: I feel so much more relaxed about everything. And I
Speaker 2: feel it's good for me because mentally, you can not
Speaker 2: that affected my music so much, but I just feel
Speaker 2: it's nice to be in a good mental state to
Speaker 2: just deal with everything that the music industry confer at you,
Speaker 2: you know. And I would say it's definitely been a
Speaker 2: couple of years of this life development really and obviously
Speaker 2: touring the last record, which was good and it was
Speaker 2: really really well received, which was nice, but that kind
Speaker 2: of just pitted off and I was just living, you know,
Speaker 2: just trying to be a good human being. You know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's been nice to have that time. And you know,
Speaker 2: I'm thirty four now, so it's kind of like, as
Speaker 2: much as I am very much about the music, I'm
Speaker 2: just trying to think about other things and what else
Speaker 2: I can do with my life away from music.
Speaker 1: You know, let's talk about Immigrant Boogie, because that was
Speaker 1: the track that you shared in the middle of April.
Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit more about that song because
Speaker 1: it's written from a first person perspective on a topic
Speaker 1: presumably is that you've kind of like it has really resonated
Speaker 1: with you. So what made you want to write about
Speaker 1: that as a subject matter.
Speaker 2: Well, my music has always been about I guess, social
Speaker 2: commentary and writing from trying to write in the moment,
Speaker 2: and it was just something that was just I was
Speaker 2: being bombarded with wherever I look to be it, you know,
Speaker 2: visually on the television or you know, stuff that I
Speaker 2: was reading, and it just felt like right to talk
Speaker 2: about it. You know, it's not kind of like it's
Speaker 2: been kind of banded around as a kind of you know,
Speaker 2: a strong political statement, and it's not that. It's kind
Speaker 2: of it's something that I felt was very much the
Speaker 2: zeitgeist of the time, where it's everyone's either talking about
Speaker 2: it or it is very much it's it's it's people
Speaker 2: are aware of what's going on with immigration and the
Speaker 2: immigration crisis, so it felt like the right kind of
Speaker 2: thing to write about, really and like this kind of
Speaker 2: decided to do it as a song.
Speaker 1: Is it something that you feel, like lyrically is empathetic
Speaker 1: because he talks about the experience of somebody bringing their
Speaker 1: children and being with their family and like very obviously
Speaker 1: extreme circumstance. Is it, in any sense like a kind
Speaker 1: of call to action, you saying like this is still
Speaker 1: an important thing that we need to recognize, and kind
Speaker 1: of just because it's not being reported in the headlines
Speaker 1: perhaps as much as it has been like week to week,
Speaker 1: it's still like a desperate situation.
Speaker 2: Or Yeah, for sure, I wouldn't say it's a cool
Speaker 2: for arms because throughout my career, I've never I've never
Speaker 2: wanted to put my political views out there because I've
Speaker 2: always wanted to this. I never wanted to alienate anybody.
Speaker 2: I just wanted I want as many people as possible
Speaker 2: to hear my music and appropefully appreciating. So it's not
Speaker 2: me chicking out chicking chicken in out. It's more kind
Speaker 2: of a case of I wanted to write from the
Speaker 2: perspective of somebody in that situation, but almost kind of
Speaker 2: tried to put the listener in their shoes, and this
Speaker 2: question if if you were in their shoes, how would
Speaker 2: you react or how would he deal with a situation?
Speaker 2: And that's kind of what I've always tried to do.
Speaker 2: I guess with this it's just a bit more maybe
Speaker 2: hard hitting, and I'm a bit more concentrated in subject
Speaker 2: matter when before and still I kind of always have
Speaker 2: tried to never kind of stuck to one particular path.
Speaker 2: I may want to talk about a particular thing, but
Speaker 2: I'll link it to other things and connect it all
Speaker 2: within one song, and with this is one of the
Speaker 2: few I would say what I felt like. I just
Speaker 2: want to focus on one particular thing and carry that
Speaker 2: through the whole song. So, yeah, it's been interesting the
Speaker 2: reaction to it. It's hard hitting, which is what Oh dog,
Speaker 2: it's yeah, it's it's it's immediate, and that's what I
Speaker 2: wanted it to be. I wanted I didn't want to meander.
Speaker 2: I wanted to just hit the listener from from the earth.
Speaker 1: Did you have an image of a particular person that
Speaker 1: you were writing it in mind, or was there a
Speaker 1: particular event that that spurred you on to write about it.
Speaker 2: I just this in the news is reading again and
Speaker 2: again and again about groups of people with inadequate equip
Speaker 2: meant trying to get over either to hear or into
Speaker 2: you know, Italy or somewhere into Europe. And it was
Speaker 2: just it was almost getting to a point where it
Speaker 2: was just becoming so normal to just hear about another
Speaker 2: dinghy boat where hundreds of people have drowned or you know,
Speaker 2: haven't survived because they were you know, sold a dodgy
Speaker 2: boat and they were given and fake life what do
Speaker 2: you call it, well, like people trafficking gi yeah, all
Speaker 2: that stuff and in another content, yeah, for sure. And
Speaker 2: it was just like I just thought it was just
Speaker 2: it just really hit me, this is this is crazy
Speaker 2: to think in twenty seventeen or twenty sixteen, really when
Speaker 2: I wrote it, where this is happening, this is becoming normal,
Speaker 2: you know, And it just it wasn't like an immediate
Speaker 2: thing like I need to write about it. But when
Speaker 2: I when it was the right time for me to
Speaker 2: sit down and write music, this was one of the
Speaker 2: things that just came out, you know, and I just
Speaker 2: thought it just felt right to write about this and
Speaker 2: if nothing comes from it other than people just reminding
Speaker 2: themselves of this situation, then that's good enough for me.
Speaker 2: It's just kind of I just I just shocking, and
Speaker 2: you see the images and the videos, and like there
Speaker 2: was the one small boy that was found dead on
Speaker 2: the beach, and just like, how have we how have
Speaker 2: we let this happen as humans? You know, how is
Speaker 2: this possible? It's just yeah, that's where it kind of
Speaker 2: stems from. You know.
Speaker 1: It was interesting, wasn't it That it took something so
Speaker 1: that that was in I think twenty fifteen, Yes, that
Speaker 1: was the three year old Syrian boy who was the
Speaker 1: photograph of him kind of washed up on a beach
Speaker 1: in Turkey.
Speaker 2: Horrible, absolutely horrible.
Speaker 1: But what did you think But the fact that it
Speaker 1: took something that kind of explicit and extreme for it
Speaker 1: to make it onto the front page of some newspapers,
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I can't talk for the media. I guess it just
Speaker 2: felt it felt like it was extreme enough, I guess
Speaker 2: for it to make the front pages. Maybe it shouldn't
Speaker 2: have taken something like that to happen for it to
Speaker 2: become major news. But the news works in its own way,
Speaker 2: you know, it's just yeah, it's just sad, you know,
Speaker 2: it's just really sad. And yeah, it just felt like,
Speaker 2: especially nowadays, where I just again I've always just been
Speaker 2: very stubborn in that respect that I've always tried to
Speaker 2: go against what seems to be the norm. And I'm
Speaker 2: just sick tired it's just the same old shit where
Speaker 2: it's like not everyone at all, and because you could
Speaker 2: even say a section of the music coming out of studios,
Speaker 2: but it's just so much of this kind of like
Speaker 2: everything's fine, you know, it's all good, let's go and
Speaker 2: have a good time, and it's like, no, it's not,
Speaker 2: it's not and it's not me you know, banging the
Speaker 2: drama and you know, going political, but it's just a
Speaker 2: case of things are going to shit. And I don't
Speaker 2: know if it was Nina Simone or somebody said that,
Speaker 2: you know, it's the it's the role I'm paraphrasing, but
Speaker 2: it's like the role of an artist is to right
Speaker 2: about the times. And it just felt like my duty
Speaker 2: to do that, you know, in my own way, and
Speaker 2: I think I'd be cheating myself by not doing that,
Speaker 2: you know, So it just felt right.
Speaker 1: It's interesting to hear say that, because I was going
Speaker 1: to ask about how there were lots of people that
Speaker 1: felt very discouraged by the state of things just because
Speaker 1: of the sort of tumultuous politics the last like eighteen
Speaker 1: months or whatever. Those people that were, you know, wanted
Speaker 1: to understand the kind of put a try and chin up,
Speaker 1: et cetera. Or it's like, well, in times of like strife,
Speaker 1: you know, great art gets made. And I suppose that
Speaker 1: is you know, they were maybe taking that as a
Speaker 1: bit of a consolation. But do you think that's true?
Speaker 1: And do you think that I mean, it sounds to
Speaker 1: me like you kind of like take a responsibility to
Speaker 1: kind of reflect the times. But is it an artist's
Speaker 1: responsibility to vocalize that stuff?
Speaker 2: Do you think there's different schools of thought, isn't it?
Speaker 2: It's like I, on one hand, I feel no, it
Speaker 2: isn't you know, it isn't a responsibility of an artist too.
Speaker 2: Doug again, I like dogs, so great nights.
Speaker 1: That was like a friendly dog.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And one how I feel like it isn't
Speaker 2: the responsibility of an artist too. Artists right with the
Speaker 2: fun they want to write that's that's one that's I ficked.
Speaker 2: I wake up. I would think like that one day.
Speaker 2: On some days and other days I feel like we
Speaker 2: should write about the times I feel it's important to
Speaker 2: As always, I always feel it's important to write your
Speaker 2: own unique story and stories. But how can I just
Speaker 2: don't get how, And again I always get myself in
Speaker 2: trouble by talking like this. I'm not saying any particular
Speaker 2: The douggrees, I'm not particular particularly saying that you know
Speaker 2: your shit as an artist because you don't do this.
Speaker 2: But I feel like, how can you not use the
Speaker 2: advantage of having a mouthpiece, you know, opportunity to air
Speaker 2: your views or share your thoughts or whatever, and not
Speaker 2: take that and just go down the what I would
Speaker 2: call it easy route of just writing about you know,
Speaker 2: partying or you know going to the club, going to
Speaker 2: the club, or you know, lovey dovey stuff. It's cool,
Speaker 2: you know, love is great. But I just feel like
Speaker 2: there's things to talk about now, and I feel I
Speaker 2: personally want to go down that route route I always have.
Speaker 2: I just for once decided to just make music that
Speaker 2: was a bit more concentrated. Yeah, I do my own thing,
Speaker 2: I always have, and everyone has to do their own
Speaker 2: thing and I'm never going to turn around and be
Speaker 2: like dismissive of an artist who has the balls to
Speaker 2: put music out there, whatever it is, and you know,
Speaker 2: go through, go through what it takes to get music
Speaker 2: out there nowadays. But I just feel I'm leaning more
Speaker 2: towards the idea that you should you should say something.
Speaker 2: You know, again, it doesn't have to be political, but
Speaker 2: it's important to, yeah, say something of substance, you know,
Speaker 2: as much as you can or as much as you
Speaker 2: feel comfortable doing.
Speaker 1: You know, when we go into a period now whereby
Speaker 1: you know, we're into that election period and the news
Speaker 1: is full of kind of every twist and turn of
Speaker 1: campaigning and the run up to something like that. He
Speaker 1: the kind of person that engages, like wants to know
Speaker 1: every kind of minute by minute update in the run
Speaker 1: up to something like a general election, or you somebody
Speaker 1: who needs to take a step back.
Speaker 2: It's very draining trying to keep up to it on
Speaker 2: a day to day basis. I go through periods of
Speaker 2: this listening to talk radio like LBC, and it's it's
Speaker 2: just training so draining. Hearing the difference of opinion and
Speaker 2: the bickering and the back and forth and this is
Speaker 2: happening because you know, the last party in power did that,
Speaker 2: and you know we're going to do this, and you know,
Speaker 2: it's like, I maybe it's idealistic, but I just wanted
Speaker 2: I just want peace. I just want peace, and I
Speaker 2: want I want people to be treated fairly and everyone
Speaker 2: to have opportunities to better their lives. It's really simple
Speaker 2: for me, and yeah, it is really draining. So like
Speaker 2: once I knew the election was announced, I kind of
Speaker 2: was just like, yeah, I'm gonna have to step back
Speaker 2: from this because I get to wound up about it
Speaker 2: and I just feel like, yeah, I just I just
Speaker 2: feel like I've got to just live my life and
Speaker 2: not not be ignorant about it. But I'm very much
Speaker 2: aware of what's going on and keeping the breast, but
Speaker 2: not as as not as in depth, not as much
Speaker 2: as I would I would in the past. I think
Speaker 2: in the last few years, I've decided this to yeah,
Speaker 2: be zen, but then as much as possible. You know,
Speaker 2: it sounds like a.
Speaker 1: Wise approach going back to talking about, you know, discussing
Speaker 1: your art and the kind of like the responsibility that
Speaker 1: you feel about wanting to kind of reflect the times
Speaker 1: that we live in on Immigrant Boogie. You've you've got
Speaker 1: one of the guys from Shame who if people Charlie
Speaker 1: from Shame, if people haven't come across that band. They're
Speaker 1: a band from South London, released a few tracks but
Speaker 1: have kind of got an album in the in the
Speaker 1: pipeline relatively kind of like new to a lot of people.
Speaker 1: They're a young band with a political voice and that
Speaker 1: they're kind of they're very they're very open about their
Speaker 1: kind of views and things like that. So is that
Speaker 1: an attraction to like finding discovering that band?
Speaker 2: Not really, I kind of I must have been on
Speaker 2: uh stevehl Max Round Table and six Music and he
Speaker 2: must have played whatever their first single was, gold Hole.
Speaker 2: I think I just it's one of those moments you're
Speaker 2: just like, what the hell is that? And he was like, Oh,
Speaker 2: it's a band called Shame, blah blah and okay cool.
Speaker 2: I just was just playing that to death, really and
Speaker 2: once I wanted to make some music and I started,
Speaker 2: I made this. I just thought it'd be great to
Speaker 2: have him on it, just kind of as an ominous
Speaker 2: kind of voice in the background, because I love his
Speaker 2: I love his tone, I love his voice. We got
Speaker 2: in contact and he was really up for it. He
Speaker 2: was really he's really he's like I think I was
Speaker 2: seventeen eighteen or stuff like that. It made me feel
Speaker 2: very old. And he's just full of ideas and just
Speaker 2: like you know, just so many things he wants to
Speaker 2: do with the band and with music in general, and
Speaker 2: it was just fascinating just conversing with him. So yeah,
Speaker 2: it was really nice to get him involved in this track.
Speaker 2: And I like working with interesting artists, simple as that,
Speaker 2: and I just found him interesting. Luckily, you know, he
Speaker 2: wanted to get involved.
Speaker 1: When we're talking earlier about the inspiration of writing about
Speaker 1: the kind of like the what's happening in the news
Speaker 1: and the national conversation around you know, issues, be it
Speaker 1: immigration or whatever, do you ever feel any kind of
Speaker 1: like trepidation about writing about those kind of things, because,
Speaker 1: as we've already discussed, some people kind of avoid those
Speaker 1: type of subjects completely. So, you know, on the eve
Speaker 1: of putting out something like Immigrant Boogie, do you think
Speaker 1: what is your thought process about how people might receive it?
Speaker 1: And I mean people, I assume because of sometimes worried
Speaker 1: about writing those kind of subjects because they're a fear
Speaker 1: of a backlash, But I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: appreciate honesty. So have you ever had a backlash when
Speaker 1: you've written about a subject matter like that?
Speaker 2: No, like this feel like I kind of I wrote
Speaker 2: it purposefully that it wasn't taking a side, and I'm
Speaker 2: not taking aside. I'm just trying to shine a light
Speaker 2: on this particular subject. So I felt like that would
Speaker 2: help the cause in a sense of not trying, like
Speaker 2: I mentioned previously, alienating people by saying right, this is
Speaker 2: wrong or this is right and blah blah blah. I
Speaker 2: just felt like I just want I just want to
Speaker 2: shine a light on this. And I didn't really have
Speaker 2: a full process. I never really do with making music.
Speaker 2: I never did in the beginning, and I've just tried
Speaker 2: to keep that alive over the last six seven years.
Speaker 2: I've been doing it where I just make what I want,
Speaker 2: really and I've been very lucky in the resecting in
Speaker 2: the sense that I've been able to I've been given
Speaker 2: the time to be able to shape my sound or
Speaker 2: not even sound, but like the direction I wanted to
Speaker 2: go in musically. So I don't feel anyone really really
Speaker 2: not for theactions thus far. I don't think anyone's totally
Speaker 2: shocked by what I've written, you know, because I've always
Speaker 2: just tried to be truthful. So yeah, I've never really
Speaker 2: had backlash, and even if I did, I wouldn't really
Speaker 2: care in the sense of, I've just got to make
Speaker 2: what I want to make. You know, the moment I
Speaker 2: start to overthink it and start to think, what's this
Speaker 2: particular person going to think, or you know, this audience
Speaker 2: in this country, or you know that particular press person
Speaker 2: or whatever, then I'm just gonna I'm going to lose something,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm going to lose what I feel makes
Speaker 2: me me, and I never want to do that. So
Speaker 2: I kind of just doing my own thing and you know,
Speaker 2: seek my own counsel. You know.
Speaker 1: I want to ask about music discovery because, like, throughout
Speaker 1: your career, the three albums you put out to date,
Speaker 1: and you know, we've already mentioned that you've got Charlie
Speaker 1: on Immigrant Boogie, You've been somebody who's always kind of,
Speaker 1: like I guess, shared the microphone with other artists that
Speaker 1: you really admire. You've done radio shows on so Radio,
Speaker 1: and you've kind of always been quite passionate about wanting
Speaker 1: to share the other music that you discover. So how
Speaker 1: do you discover new music? Where are your kind of
Speaker 1: like trusted source is where do you Where do you
Speaker 1: find the stuff that you go on to love?
Speaker 2: Everywhere through the power of Shazam is very powerful. Oh god,
Speaker 2: it's on my phone which is currently charging, and it's
Speaker 2: off some kind of a fure jazz thing that I
Speaker 2: heard in like Worldwide FM, like Charles Peterson's station.
Speaker 1: Radio station.
Speaker 2: It's really good, and like through like researching stuff for
Speaker 2: my own station, I want to start. I've being listening
Speaker 2: to like Worldwide FM, red Light Radio and Amsterdam, the
Speaker 2: Lot Radio, New York, Berlin Community Radio, so he Radio,
Speaker 2: six Music and so it's it's stations like the ones
Speaker 2: mentioned and this just living and going everywhere and just
Speaker 2: literally hearing something either asking what the hell is that
Speaker 2: or hiz imming and then I just literally just compile stuff.
Speaker 2: And I also get sent a few things, and if
Speaker 2: I jump on a radio station like six Music or whatever,
Speaker 2: I'll say, oh, what's that? Who's who you been listening to?
Speaker 2: And this kind of a combination of these things. Really,
Speaker 2: I just kind of feel like there is so much
Speaker 2: about especially nowadays, trying to you know, I'm releasing a single,
Speaker 2: I'm releasing the album, so it's really important that everything
Speaker 2: is focused on me. But it's like, unless you're a superstar,
Speaker 2: there's so much music out there, it's impossible to do
Speaker 2: that for longer than maybe a week or two if
Speaker 2: you're lucky. So I'm a massive fan of music. I
Speaker 2: was a fan of music way before making my own,
Speaker 2: and I don't feel the need to change in a
Speaker 2: sense of promoting other people. If I hear something new
Speaker 2: or you know, someone young or old, I have no
Speaker 2: hesitation to just talk about it, you know, or it
Speaker 2: on a radio show, or just put a link on
Speaker 2: social media post. Why not? You know, music should be
Speaker 2: about discovery, not just keeping everyone in your own little,
Speaker 2: you know, part of the world. I just think it's
Speaker 2: important to discover as much as you can. Really, there's
Speaker 2: so much music. How can you just how can you
Speaker 2: not do that? It's weird to not want to do that,
Speaker 2: So I just keep doing it, you know.
Speaker 1: And your vision for starting your own radio station, Yeah,
Speaker 1: those places you've just mentioned all doing fantastic things, individual,
Speaker 1: global things. That's the beauty of being able to start
Speaker 1: like an online radio station. Sure you can listen to
Speaker 1: a New York radio station and see what they're playing
Speaker 1: or whatever. Yeah, what's your vision for it? Will it
Speaker 1: have a focus on the talent and the sounds of
Speaker 1: the local area, or will it have a real kind
Speaker 1: of broad offering in your kind of mind's eye, what
Speaker 1: would be the absolute perfect scenario with starting your own radio.
Speaker 2: It's a combination with the too. I want to I
Speaker 2: want to focus on local artists musically, but it's kind
Speaker 2: of a case of I want to create a station
Speaker 2: that isn't only just music. It's also discussion and talking
Speaker 2: about you know, social social stuff and I don't know whatever,
Speaker 2: whatever people want to talk about. I want to create
Speaker 2: a platform for that as well as new music, as
Speaker 2: well as potentially visiting DJs and artists. And I want
Speaker 2: to do literal stuff. I want to record dislike talks
Speaker 2: and someone's bringing out a book and record them talking
Speaker 2: about the book, reading from the book, or well, this
Speaker 2: is a kind of like it's small smorgas board. I love,
Speaker 2: I've never used that word in the conversation. Kind of
Speaker 2: a smorgas board of sorts. And yeah, so like art, culture,
Speaker 2: music discussion, that's what I want it to be. It
Speaker 2: is great that with online radio, you can reach a
Speaker 2: much wider audience than you know, an FM dial And
Speaker 2: I do want it to be global, but I want
Speaker 2: it to be very much a case of a reflection
Speaker 2: of Margate and the characters that make up Margate, but
Speaker 2: also the quality output in the creative, creative sense of
Speaker 2: like I said, our culture discussion, that's that's the that's
Speaker 2: the plan. We'll see how it goes really, but yeah,
Speaker 2: that's the plan.
Speaker 1: When you're an independent artist and you're on the verge
Speaker 1: of making your fourth album, you've been doing this probably
Speaker 1: approaching a decade, so, like, is it hard? Sometimes? Is it?
Speaker 1: Is it a tough journey to reach this kind of
Speaker 1: point because you know, all we see is the kind
Speaker 1: of the creative output and see you on stage and
Speaker 1: everything else, but behind the scenes doing it yourself for
Speaker 1: this period of time, it's a tough journey.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is, and it and it has luckily it's
Speaker 2: been more positive negative, but it's there's a number of things.
Speaker 2: I guess it's kind of being a solo artist. Is
Speaker 2: it's a lonely place. You know, you've got to kind
Speaker 2: of have band members to bounce ideas of, so to speak,
Speaker 2: or you know, discuss or you know, learn from. So
Speaker 2: that was has always been interesting and because of the
Speaker 2: kind of music that I make, it's not totally unique,
Speaker 2: but it's not many people likeing this call up and say, oh, well,
Speaker 2: you know, we make similar things. How would you do
Speaker 2: go about doing this and doing that? It was There's
Speaker 2: been a lot of learning as I've gone along and
Speaker 2: still learning and being independent and trying to make music
Speaker 2: that isn't just just pop ship where it's just like,
Speaker 2: you know, just easy to listen, easy to digest, has
Speaker 2: its own you know, it's it's been a it's been
Speaker 2: a longer journey. You know, the journey still continues, but
Speaker 2: it's I know from the beginning that it would be
Speaker 2: a longer road for me because I wanted I didn't
Speaker 2: want to make this boring pop ship and not to
Speaker 2: say pop music is shipped. You know, Harry Styles some
Speaker 2: of the time is not bad. You know, I've been
Speaker 2: bombarded with that song and it's not too bad, but
Speaker 2: you know it's not It wasn't a road. It wasn't
Speaker 2: a road I was going to go down, So I
Speaker 2: knew it was going to be trickier. I've just been
Speaker 2: really lucky that I've been, you know, I've been on
Speaker 2: Browns with for Brown's Recordings for the first record, and
Speaker 2: he let me do what I wanted to do. And
Speaker 2: I've been with PS Recordings Play Against Sam for the
Speaker 2: last two records, and again they've just let me do
Speaker 2: what I want to do, you know, and they've allowed
Speaker 2: me to grow, and I think that was really important
Speaker 2: for me. Yeah, I wouldn't want it any other way,
Speaker 2: I think. I think being and then on the indie
Speaker 2: label and an independent artists whatever that means these days,
Speaker 2: is kind of it's all always it's it's nice to
Speaker 2: just being have that creative freedom and just being able
Speaker 2: to make whatever I want to make and having way
Speaker 2: more controlled over the visual aspects and the artwork and
Speaker 2: so on and so forth. It's what I've always tried
Speaker 2: to do. It's always the longer road. And yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: not going to be chilling with Richard Branson on on
Speaker 2: a private island anytime soon. But I can look back
Speaker 2: at what I've made and say that I've made things
Speaker 2: that I really wanted to make. There's nothing that I
Speaker 2: can I regret making at all, and that is a
Speaker 2: success for me. That's that's what I see as a success,
Speaker 2: just being able to look back at my catalog and say, yeah,
Speaker 2: there's no regrets in there, you know. So yeah, so far,
Speaker 2: so good.
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