WEBVTT - The Cool Kids All Sign On...But They Don't Include Isiah 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.120 This is The Dream Team Tapes, a Diversion Podcasts original 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:10.920 series in association with I Heart Radio. This is the 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:13.680 story of the United States Olympic basketball team that won 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:22.320 gold in Barcelona in known worldwide as the Dream Team. 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:26.080 Millions of Americans own a personal computer. If you're one 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:28.160 of them, you can now glimpse the future with nothing 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:30.400 more than a modem, a phone line, and a few 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:33.560 dollars a month mark with the A and then the 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:37.320 ring around it. At see, that's what I said, um 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:40.680 Case said she thought it was about yeah, but I've 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:44.199 never heard it. I've never heard it said, but never 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:46.159 heard it said. And then it sounded stupid what I 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:51.600 said at violence at NBC. So why did I choose 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:54.840 to open episode three of The Dream Team Tapes by 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:58.800 making fun of Briant Gumble, Katie Couric, and Elizabeth Fargas, 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:04.160 all of whom are infinitely more famous than I onsode 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:07.240 of the Today Show. Beyond the fact, of course that 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:09.840 it's a lot of fun. Now, let me note that 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:11.800 the first time I had a flip phone, I got 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:14.520 thirty seven calls before I found out you had to 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:18.440 actually flip the phone open to answer them. So maybe 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:20.800 I'm not the guy to be making fun here, But 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:24.000 I have a point. Twenty eight years after the Dream 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:26.959 Team began to be put together, one of my most 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:29.720 vivid memories was how, for want of a better word, 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:34.240 quietly it all came together. That's the only description I 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:36.280 would give to the manner in which the news was 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:40.280 received that pros could now play in the Olympics. Why 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:43.720 was that? Well, we must resort to the obvious here first, 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:48.680 the absence of social media the Bryant Katie Elizabeth video. 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:51.480 Remember was even a few years after the news of 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:55.160 the Dream Team, there was zero social media and only 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:59.800 daily newspapers and magazines like Sports Illustrated. The Olympic news 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:04.360 is not big news. Had something similar happened today, the 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:07.760 Internet would have blown up within an hour. Every hoops 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:10.120 fan in America with a keyboard would have had his 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:14.240 or her dream team selected. So in December, now this 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:18.120 is nine months before the team would be announced, I 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:20.400 had an idea that why don't I pick my starting 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:23.600 five if these guys were to play in the Olympics. 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:27.520 It was all presented as a hypothetical. We could take 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:29.519 a photo at the All Star Game in Charlotte in 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:33.200 February put it on the cover of Sports Illustrated, and 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:35.959 that would save me writing about the All Star Game, 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:38.880 about which there was usually nothing to write except how 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:42.800 bad the defense is and ladies and gentlemen. Honestly, that 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:46.240 was the beginning of the real interest in the Dream Team, 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:48.720 and in fact, i'll tell you later how it got 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:52.800 its name. But something else was going on in relative 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:56.880 secret at that time, the decision about who was going 0:02:56.960 --> 0:03:00.800 to coach these guys. Here's Chuck Daily. I thought, you know, 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:03.240 maybe I was a little far along in my career 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:06.400 and I thought, you know, there's so many qualified people 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:09.760 out there that I really didn't give it a lot 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:12.440 of thought. Someone mentioned it to me and I said, oh, 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:15.920 I don't know that I would fit into that category 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:18.840 or not. But I said, nice, you know that people 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:21.520 are mentioning my name and Matt Dobeck part of just 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:24.840 your background of being optimistic. She never really enjoyed the 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:27.400 stuff that the accomptant. You know, even lot with that 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:29.840 because you're so worried about what I said, Joe, I 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:32.080 get a little sad when I hear those voices for 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:35.720 both men are gone now. The first voice belonged to 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.960 Chuck Daily, who died of cancer in two thousand nine. 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:43.080 Our interview is from Barcelona, in the middle of the Olympics. 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:46.920 The other voice is Matt Dobek, who was the pistons 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:50.880 long time public relations man. Matt took his own life 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:54.200 a little over a year after Chuck died. I'm not 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:57.840 suggesting the events were connected, but I'm not suggesting they 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:01.440 weren't connected either. See Chuck and Matt were as close 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:04.800 as any coach and PR man could ever be. I'm 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:08.600 not as familiar with those relationships in other sports, but 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:12.280 in pro basketball the relationship between the coach and the 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:16.440 PR person is extremely important to the health of the team. 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:19.560 See the coaches like the CEO of a large corporation, 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:23.280 except that he's responsible to the media and fans on 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:28.159 a daily basis. The PR person is the one charged 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:31.880 with running interference, trying to decide when the coach should talk, 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:34.760 when he should stay quiet, and when he should well, 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:40.640 if not outright, lie then obfuscate. So on Valentine's Day, 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:46.120 Charles Jerome Daily was named coach of the Dream Team. 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:48.280 In keeping with that quiet theme I had talked about, 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:51.760 nobody paid all that much attention and there was very 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:55.839 little ceremony attached to the announcement. I wouldn't say Chuck 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:59.560 was a unanimous choice, but he was certainly a popular one. 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:03.480 Pat Riley and Don Nelson seemed the other possible choices, 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:06.960 but in their own way, they had something against them. 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:10.000 Nelly was a little squirrelly. You never knew what he 0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:11.800 was gonna say or what he was gonna do. For 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:14.719 that matter, pat was a great coach, but he was 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:18.880 way way into that my way or the highway thing. 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:22.080 By that time, the powers that be knew that they 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:25.720 needed a diplomat as well as a great coach, somebody 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:30.080 who wouldn't go nuclear with all the extracurricular demands that 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:34.479 would come with coaching the Dream Team. Plus there was 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:38.520 this from Charles Barkley, Chuck coach the bad boy Pistons. 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:42.320 Charles said, on more than one occasion, you coach those assholes, 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:46.520 you can coach anybody. Chuck never seemed to take himself 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:49.200 too seriously. It was a great Boston writer, Bob Ryan, 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:53.240 who hung the sobriquet the Prince of Pessimism on Chuck 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:56.440 because he would always find the gloomy side to anything, 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:59.599 but at the same time a wry smile was never 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:02.719 far from his face. You know me any money, he 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:04.720 used to say as he gripped your hand in a greeting. 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:07.640 And when Chuck would give out a cell phone, he 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:10.400 ended up by saying the first six numbers and then 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:14.880 Rodman Sally. That's because the final four numbers were ten 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:19.039 and twenty two, the jersey numbers of Dennis Rodman and 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:23.800 John Sally. Now, when Chuck's decision was announced on that 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:27.440 Valentine's Day in one, you have to understand what was 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:30.960 going on in the NBA that season. Daly's Pistons, the 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:33.760 bad Boys as everyone called them, or the a holes 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:37.600 as Charles called them, were the two time defending champions, 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:43.920 having disposed of the Lakers in nine and the Trailblazers 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:47.840 in but their meter had clearly expired. They were old 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:51.960 and injured, and almost everyone figured correctly as it turned out, 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:56.640 that Jordan's and Pippin's bulls would overtake them. But Daly 0:06:56.760 --> 0:06:59.960 was still the man the committee wanted, and in retrospect, 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:03.360 it's hard to imagine the Dream Team without Chuck. One 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:06.120 of my regrets is that he died in two thousand 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:09.920 nine before I got a chance to interview him. Chuck 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:12.360 was happy to get the job, of course, but right 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:16.000 away he knew he was in a tough position. Matt 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:18.720 Dobek knew it right away too, because he told me. 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:22.720 Though no players had been selected for the team, Chuck 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:25.160 knew in his heart of hearts that selling his captain, 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:28.960 Isaiah Thomas to the committee would be difficult because of 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:32.560 some of the poisonous relationships that Isaiah had built up 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:36.840 over the years. Bill lamb, Or, Isaiah's teammate and best friend, 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:41.640 pointed out correctly that had the Dream Team decisions been 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:44.880 made a year or two earlier, when the Pistons were 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:47.920 the kings of the NBA, it would have been harder 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:51.080 to keep Isaiah off of it. You have to remember 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:54.320 that Isaiah stirred up a lot of this stuff himself, 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:58.800 including the time he agreed with Dennis Rodman after Robin 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:03.040 made that much remembered statement that Larry Bird was overrated. 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:08.760 But let's unpack that a little bit. It occurred right 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:11.520 after Isaiah had made a bone headed pass that led 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:13.960 to a bird steel that led to a bird pass 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:17.920 that led to a Dennis Johnson basket that eventually led 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:21.400 to the Celtics beating the Pistons and making the finals. 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:26.160 In seven, Isaiah was in an overheated Boston Garden visitors 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:29.960 locker room, which is exactly how the Celtics used to 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:34.320 keep the visitor's locker room. And what Isaiah actually said was, 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:38.440 Larry Bird is an exceptional talent, but I have to 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:42.080 agree with Dennis. If he was black, he'd be just 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:46.000 another good guy. Now that's a little different than just 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:49.479 outright dissing Bird. And it was a theme that Isaiah 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:52.960 and other black players as well used to say, and 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:56.920 that was how much more attention great or outstanding white 0:08:56.920 --> 0:09:01.240 players got than their black counterparts. Isaiah just happened to 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:04.440 pick the wrong guy to say it about. At any rate, 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:08.920 it's an absolute certainty that in today's Twitter climate, Isaiah 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:12.600 would have gotten a lot more support. At the very least, 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:14.720 it would have been a viral blow up for a 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:19.320 few hours. So no matter what you heard, there was 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:22.200 never much of a chance for Isaiah thomas to make 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:27.720 the Dream Team. For this reason, mainly, Michael Jordan's did 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:33.520 not want him. I wrote that back because a source 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:37.200 close to the situation, no not Jordan himself, told me 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:41.040 that was the case. But Jordan's reaction to the question 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:45.440 did you keep Isaiah off the team was either angry no, 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:51.319 dismissive no Isaiah questions please, or coy hey, I didn't 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:54.360 pick the team. So when I went to interview Jordan 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:57.280 for the Dream Team book in two thousand eleven, I 0:09:57.320 --> 0:10:01.360 wondered how I would nudge conversation over to Isaiah Thomas. 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:06.000 But against all odds, Jordan went there himself suddenly and 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:09.040 without warning, and nickols me to ask me the book 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:14.880 Robin calls, who are will to play Isaiah Thomas? Here's here? 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:18.800 He said. You know what chucked asia going to be 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:22.079 if you didn't hear he said, I don't want to 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:26.400 play if Isaiah Thomas is on the team. Now much 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:29.360 has been made is still being made about how one 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:32.400 player should not have had the power to keep another 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:36.160 off the team, and further how USA basketball officials, the 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:40.320 late David Stern, Dave Gavitt, whoever, should not have listened 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:43.840 to one man and they should have said, I you, Michael, 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:49.360 we're taking Isaiah, to which I always say police. In 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:53.240 the year of Our Lord, there was no one who 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:56.960 was going to pick Isaiah Thomas over Michael Jordan's It's 0:10:57.000 --> 0:10:59.920 that simple. Plus, the case could be made that John 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:03.559 stocked him by that point, was as good as Isaiah Thomas. Personally, 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:06.960 I would not make that argument. At their best, Isaiah 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:10.080 was better than John. But when you factor in everything, 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:15.480 including the Jordan factor and team chemistry, that doesn't necessarily 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:30.760 add up to Isaiah having a deserving place on the team. 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:33.760 A final note on the Isaiah story. When the team 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:38.920 was finally selected and announced in September, Magic Johnson released 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:43.200 the following statement, I sincerely hope the selection committee awards 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:46.119 one of the final two remaining roster positions to Isaiah. 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:49.960 I say this not because Isaiah as my friend, but 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:52.800 because I believe he will assist the team in winning 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.920 the gold medal. Oh my god, what a bunch of crap. 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:59.680 As it evolved years later, Magic and Isaiah were already 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:03.400 on the outs. Magic didn't want Isaiah on the team either, 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:08.040 and he could have been considered Isaiah's greatest ally. Now, 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:10.880 by the time Chuck Daly was announced as the coach, 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:14.719 several players had already expressed interest in playing in Barcelona, 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:21.240 specifically Malone Barkley, Ewing and Magic. But heartening back to 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:24.439 the beginning of the podcast. There hadn't been much buzz 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:27.920 about it, so many people just did not think it 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:31.600 was going to happen after fifty years of amateur players 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:35.520 representing our country. So I had the idea to do 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:38.840 this story, this kind of hypothetical story about what the 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:42.440 team might look like. And I started with Magic and 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:45.760 he said, no way, I'm doing this if you're not 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:48.760 picking Larry. I said, well, I would pick Larry. I 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:51.240 told Magic, but I don't think he's going to play, 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:54.760 which was the truth. You gotta check with the Magic said, 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.600 and I did. And this is Bird years later talking 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:01.400 about it. One thing I didn't want to do is 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:04.199 go over there and not go to at all and 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:08.920 take away the chance with somebody else to have. Bird's 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:12.040 back was hurting, and he was legitimately concerned that he 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:15.480 was too old to go to Barcelona. He was just 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:18.520 trying to get through the season and coax the Celtics 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:22.040 to another finals, which even he knew was not going 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:27.400 to happen. So after I reported back to Magic, he said, okay, 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:32.040 I'm in. I eventually rounded up Jordan's. He took some convincing, 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:34.960 of course, because he was Jordan's and he still hadn't 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:38.240 officially committed to the team, and I also rounded up 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:42.640 Patrick Ewing, Kr Malone and Charles Barkley. They were my 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:45.800 choice for a starting lineup as long as Bird said 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:49.480 he was not playing. Now, why you Ing over David Robinson? 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:52.440 Tell you the truth, I really don't know. To this day, 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:54.959 I'm not sure who I would take in his prime. 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:59.920 Perhaps Robinson for his all around athleticism, but there was 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:05.440 something about Ewing's indomitable spirit. Anyway, this took a lot 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:08.240 of arranging and a lot of secret maneuvering, and when 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:10.760 we tried to move the five guys into a separate 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:13.440 room to take a shot during a break in the 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:18.600 All Star hullabaloo, all hell broke. Loose fans were banging 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:21.200 on the door. After we somehow managed to get the 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:24.320 guys in there. I had arranged for my two sons 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:26.480 to be in the room to hand out the swag 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:30.000 bags to the players, and they were wide eyed astonished 0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:33.880 the crush of people trying to get into the room. 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:36.120 My sons, by the way, are both over forty now 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:39.240 and they still have the polaroids. You know the definition 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:41.880 of a swag bag. By the way, it's good he's 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:44.600 given to people who are so rich that they should 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.880 be the ones handing out the swag bags. That's certainly 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:51.600 what Christopher thought on The Sopranos when he robs learned Bacall. 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:55.880 That's the Lauren Bacall to grab her swag bag as 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:59.320 Lauren lets loose with a barrage of f bombs. Great 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:03.120 Sopranos omen Anyway, right before we're ready to take the 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:06.360 photo into the room, bursts Russ Grannick, who was the 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:09.360 Deputy Commissioner of the NBA at the time, David Stearn's 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:13.640 right hand man, and I mean he was pissed. We 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.480 haven't cleared this. We haven't cleared this. He kept yelling, 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:20.320 which I guess was technically true, meaning that we hadn't 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:24.040 cleared it with the NBA. We finally talked Russ off 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:26.360 the ledge and took the photo. Russ is, by the way, 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:30.160 one of the great guys in NBA history. When the 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:34.160 cover photo came out, it wasn't a way kind of hokey, 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:37.200 but the five stars were holding replicas of the Olympic 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:41.680 rings and the power them together, and it just released 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:44.800 some kind of energy. I wrote the story that weekend 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:48.640 and I began it this way. It's a red, white 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:52.080 and blue dream. The five players who graced this week's 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:57.520 cover playing together determined to restore America's lost basketball dignity 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:02.200 in the Olympic Games in bars Lona. What's the chances 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:05.840 of this dream coming true? Not bad? Not bad at all? 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:09.800 And then there was just the cover line that said 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:16.280 dream Team. From that moment on, everything changed. Dream Teams 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:20.000 started to become a thing. There began to be stories 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:23.160 written about it. Who's going to be on the Dream Team? 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:27.520 Who's not a dream teamer? Okay, Magic's on board, Patrick's excited, 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:31.400 The Mailman's all in. Chris Mullen, I didn't even think 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:34.760 about he said, I'm in. Scottie Pippen surprised at the nod, 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:38.480 but put me down. We had a name. It seemed 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:43.359 like reality. The dream Team. Now, let's consider the inclusion 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:47.680 of one Charles Wade Barkley. At the end of episode two, 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:50.520 I played you a clip of Charles talking about how 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:53.280 he was one of the first five players picked because 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:56.840 he had been on the cover of Sports Illustrated. Uh 0:16:56.880 --> 0:17:00.640 not the case. Charles was no lock for a variety 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:03.240 of reasons, this being one of them. But in March, 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:08.280 Barkley did something truly outrageous, even for him. Barkley's Sixers 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:10.160 were playing the New Jersey Nets in a hard fought 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:12.800 regular season game. A Nets fan in the front row 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:16.159 had allegedly been heckling him all night, and eventually Barkley 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:19.280 snapped in the fourth quarter during a stop and play. 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:22.359 Barkley spit in the fans general direction, only it hit 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:25.240 a little girl instead. Now a couple of things here. First, 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:28.199 there was no allegedly about Charles being heckled. He was 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:31.199 being heckled, fat ass and all that. I don't know 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:33.639 if there was a racial component, but of course he 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:36.840 shouldn't have snapped, and of course he didn't mean to 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:39.440 spit on the young girl, whose name was Lauren Rose 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:43.400 and who Charles later spoke to and apologize. But combined 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:46.320 with other incidents a bar room brawler too, and on 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:49.840 court fight or two, a weapon's charge for carrying an 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:54.880 unlicensed handgun, a few dozen on politic comments, and well, Charles, 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:58.119 despite what he said in episode two about being one 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:02.440 of the first five pick was automatic for the Dream Team, 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:08.000 and certainly David Stern, the Commissioner, was ambivalent about his inclusion. 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:11.120 The basketball of people are always metrified you can't get 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:16.160 enough good players. Yeah, if they had the big twenty players, right, Yeah, 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:18.439 it's really reluctant. You know, you never know what he's 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:24.200 gonna say because he doesn't know what because he really 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:27.119 he's really you know, stepped over the line a couple 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:30.840 of times, but you know he's Charles. So why did 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:33.800 Charles make the team? Two reasons? Really. Rod Thorne, who 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:36.399 at that time was an executive with the league, was 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:39.720 the one charge with calling Charles, and he was instantly 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:43.320 impressed by how much Barkley wanted to play. But this 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:46.600 is the key factor. Thorne, a former general manager who 0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:51.640 had drafted Jordan's and was very much an important man 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:56.120 in the process of gathering players, wanted his talent. Remember 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:59.879 what David Stern said, while the people more preoccupied with image, 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:03.880 never think you have enough boy scouts basketball people, which 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:07.840 Rod Thorne was, never think you have enough talent. Charles 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:10.440 was clearly not a boy scout, but talent one out 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:25.600 and Charles Barkley was a dream teamer. Now, so far 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:30.080 as need goes, the team probably did not need Larry Bird. 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:34.359 He was thirty five and it was an old thirty five. 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:38.240 His back was not just hurting, it was killing him. 0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:40.040 As you heard from his voice at the beginning of 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:43.960 the episode, Bird would describe times when he would drive 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:46.480 his car only a mile before he had to stop 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:50.719 and get out stretches back. This resonates with me, as 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:53.440 it does with many others. On a couple of occasions, 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:58.080 I visited Bird's miracle man physiotherapist Dan Direct, and over 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:02.639 long stretches of the season, Direct was Bird's most constant companion. 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:05.879 But Bird, after many haranguing phone calls from Magic and 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:09.680 a couple of conversations with Dave Gabbett, eventually signed on. 0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:12.239 Remember that he says it was just to hang out 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:15.080 with Gavitt, but there was more to it than that. 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:18.480 One of the kids. My dad was big on the Olympics, 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:21.879 and uh it adn't matter of his traffic field, you know, 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:25.040 high jug whatever. His big thing was always a national 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:27.440 anthem eternal of TV for o Limpics. The year the 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:30.520 national anthem, he turned and smile saying us one goal. 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:33.560 I always remember that and I always stopped bought that 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:36.520 would be as a kid. I never dreamed I ever 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:39.080 to do it. But the most exciting thing for me 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:41.120 was when we got our medals when he played the Stars, 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:44.200 because I remember back in his mind when he heard 0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:47.240 the anthem plan it was a gold medal. He was happy. 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:49.399 I was The Bird was just starting to become a 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:53.240 college player at Indiana State in nineteen seventy six when 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:56.719 the US team won gold in Montreal. He was already 0:20:56.720 --> 0:21:00.240 a professional in the nineteen eighties. He had never in 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:04.440 his Olympic chance, and Bird, despite his hesitation about his back, 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:08.560 wanted in on the national team. He remembered those Knights 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:11.480 have watched the Olympics with his dad. He wanted to 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:14.639 hear the national anthem from the podium, and he wanted 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:17.639 to remember his father, that dark soul who took his 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:21.679 own life when Larry was a teenager. So Bird was 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:25.919 in and Magic was in, and together they constituted the 0:21:25.960 --> 0:21:30.159 most important ceremonial picks of the Dream Team. That was 0:21:30.200 --> 0:21:31.960 one of the great luxuries of the Dream Team by 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:36.040 the way it could afford ceremonial picks. It needed ceremonial picks, 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:39.600 and Magic and Bird are the two best ceremonial players 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:42.520 in history. So it's getting near the time in late 0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:47.240 summer to announce the Dream Team and the following are 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:52.240 on board. Magic John stocked in his guards, Barkley, Malone, 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:56.680 Mullen and Bird as forwards, Ewing and David Robinson as centers, 0:21:57.359 --> 0:22:01.600 Scottie Pippen as the classic swingman, and finally, Michael Jordan's, 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:05.640 after months of coyness, said he was in. That's ten. Now. 0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:08.800 USA Basketball had decided to leave two spots to be 0:22:08.840 --> 0:22:12.480 announced a couple of months before the Olympics. It was 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:17.080 a really stupid decision, determined partly because there was still 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:20.399 some discussion about how many college players were to be 0:22:20.440 --> 0:22:24.560 added to the team. Increasingly, though, it had become clear 0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:28.080 that when players like James Worthy and Dominique Wilkins didn't 0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:31.040 even come close to making the team that really no 0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:35.080 college players should be on the team. So now we're 0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:39.640 gonna jump ahead about eight months for the anticlimactic announcement 0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:43.480 that Clyde Drexeler was added to the Dream Team. Any 0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:47.720 lingering support for Isaiah Thomas had all but dissipated, and 0:22:47.840 --> 0:22:51.320 Clyde deserved the nod. And I've always believed that a 0:22:51.359 --> 0:22:54.440 big part of the reason that Clyde made those comments 0:22:54.480 --> 0:22:57.800 about Jordan's that you heard in an earlier episode. It 0:22:57.960 --> 0:23:00.640 was because he was rightly piste off that he had 0:23:00.640 --> 0:23:06.000 been added late. Finally, they decided to add one college kid. 0:23:06.200 --> 0:23:12.040 There's the pastor right there, what's it up now? Shaquille 0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:15.480 O'Neal would be a better pro than Christian Lightner. Shaquille 0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:18.560 O'Neal would be more fun, a foil for the barbs 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:22.959 of Barkley, Jordan's and Bird. But the pick was clearly 0:23:23.040 --> 0:23:27.040 Christian Lightner, and Rod Thorne tells why the people were 0:23:28.600 --> 0:23:31.639 adamant that it would be lateener because of good things 0:23:31.680 --> 0:23:35.600 he had done for USA basketball. He had shocked the 0:23:35.680 --> 0:23:39.720 two deaths they came down to UH and he had 0:23:40.119 --> 0:23:43.399 played on teams and been very property with them and 0:23:43.520 --> 0:23:46.359 had had a great year. So later was added first 0:23:46.359 --> 0:23:48.760 body of work, and he probably deserved to be there, 0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:52.760 even if he did sometimes act like a dick. So 0:23:52.840 --> 0:23:54.919 let's jump back in time again to the fall of 0:23:56.600 --> 0:23:59.920 and the televised show that announced the first ten members 0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:03.359 of the Dream Team. What had once seemed like a 0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:06.600 far off dream just a couple of years earlier, was 0:24:06.640 --> 0:24:11.200 now moving toward reality. The Dream Team was no longer 0:24:11.240 --> 0:24:16.880 a dream man. We couldn't wait. Preseason started the Los 0:24:16.960 --> 0:24:20.840 Angeles Lakers headed for Paris and the fourth Annuel McDonald's Open. 0:24:21.720 --> 0:24:23.760 I covered the event, and I remember it was gloomy 0:24:23.800 --> 0:24:28.560 in Paris, and Magic Johnson, for one, wasn't real happy. Players, 0:24:28.600 --> 0:24:32.480 you see, get far less out of these cultural exchanges 0:24:32.840 --> 0:24:35.760 than the league gets out of the pr gains by 0:24:35.800 --> 0:24:39.560